A Man Is Not Real Until He Is Your Boyfriend
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When you choose to be devastated by a man who is NOT your boyfriend, what you’re really doing is holding onto the loss of your fantasy. You’re not really mourning the loss of a guy you never had.
It’s the difference in feeling between losing a million dollars (devastating) vs. the feeling of NOT winning the lottery at all when you had 4 numbers (mildly irritating).
When you choose to be devastated by a man who is NOT your boyfriend, what you’re really doing is holding onto the loss of your fantasy.
You know when you CAN get excited? When the contract is signed, the ink is dry, and you know, without a doubt, that your dating prospect has become your BOYFRIEND.
Until then, each promising man is not actually “real.” He is merely hope, potential and fantasy.
Remembering this will save you a TREMENDOUS amount of trouble when you’re dating online. No longer will each flaky and disappointing man derail you. You’ll be able to bounce back and persevere instead of quitting. This is what’s going to pay off with a serious relationship in the long run.
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82 Comments »Filed Under Newsletters
Christina 1
Maybe that’s why I enjoyed online dating so much. I had really low expectations.
I guess I figured that most guys would turn out to be flakes. I did get caught once or twice building air castles, but the sooner that can be nipped in the bud, the better.
So, when my now-fiance announced pretty early on that he wanted to be my boyfriend, I was in a state of very pleasant shock.
I think all of the fantasizing becomes a problem because so many of us have turned to online dating when we’re already desperate for a relationship. That can quickly lead to the hopes that the next guy will be “the one.”
Great post, as usual!
MysteeBee 2
@Christina- that feeling of desperation that can lead people online can also sometimes make us accept people online that we wouldn’t if we were being more clear-headed! Just because a guy is into you doesn’t mean you have to pick him!
Laine 3
Sandy’s predicament is a very different scenario than the one you outline, Evan, in your opening introduction, where the woman has gone on several great dates and the guy just disappears. I certainly don’t get nonplussed if a cyber guy who I have never met doesn’t follow through. I would certainly wonder though if a guy I had several great dates, and who was attentive with communication just went M.I.A without explanation. Maybe I am the exceptionto the rule but a man has never disappeared on me. Yet
BloggyDaddy 4
I agree with Laine, #3. If several dates had occurred and he just disappears, I don’t think I could blame any woman for being more than just a little upset and disappointed. Realistically, sure, men pull disappearing acts all the time, but I don’t think it’s an unrealistic expectation for a woman to expect to at least hear something from a guy that spent several good dates with her instead of vanishing without any reasons. I think any normal guy or girl would be upset after that.
Normally I agree with the rest of what you said though in general terms. It’s so easy to get caught up in the communication that happens online and it frequently just drops to zero without warning. That comes with the territory and getting all worked up doesn’t do anyone any good. I think that kind of wisdom comes with time on these sites, once you realize that a lot of people act much differently online than they do in real life.
Blue 5
I love this post, Evan. It goes along with another wonderful trainer who says, “If he isn’t in front of you, he isn’t real.”
Margo 6
Well, can anyone tell me why the scumbags do this? Have several dates with a woman and just disappear?!
detha 7
I have never had this happen to me when I was doing online dating, the disappearing act after few dates. But I do understand how devastating it can be for the woman who have had several dates with a guy, then he disappears.
starthrower68 8
I think part of the reason women find this behavior so troubling and confusing is when a guy disappears, the first thing that often crosses our minds is what did we do wrong? Ladies, if we’re well behaved and do the things Evan advises, then there’s nothing to question. His disappearing act is completely on him. The other good way to deal with this is to have a busy, fulfilling life in the first place so that if he does disappear, we just go back to business as usual without missing a beat.
Still Looking 9
Margo @6 – You asked why men (scumbags) have several dates and then just disappear. Simple answer is he’s just not interested. If I’m not interested after one date I usually don’t give any explanation. However, after a second date I will always give a vague “I don’t feel the chemistry I was hoping for” explanation. Is your use of the word scumbag in reference to guys not giving an explanation or is it because guys lose interest?
Ruby 10
I, too, see a big difference between what happened to Sandy, and the men who disappear after a few great dates. At least in Sandy’s case, the man had the courtesy to call her and explain. Yes, she was disappointed, but she hadn’t wasted much time on him, the problem was the distance (and not something about her), and maybe they wouldn’t have connected in person anyway.
But how can you not be disappointed when someone disappears after a few actual promising dates without a word? Online dating has given men so many choices, and there is so much anonymity in cyber-world, that some men feel they no longer have to show any consideration for another’s feelings. Common courtesy has all-too-often become common rudeness. It would be easier to dismiss if it happened much less frequently than it does.
EE 11
The disappearing act hurts a bit more because it leaves you hanging while reality dawns. After a few promising dates, it is also going to hurt if he says “I am sorry, this just isn’t going to work for me” and then stops talking to you. The key is in not taking it personal either way. Be disappointed at the vanisher, but hey, if you were not exclusive yet anyway, you should still be trolling for leads and going on dates with other men also.
Margo 12
@StillLooking #9, It would be because they don’t give an explanation. I had 3 dates with a man that I have known as a friend for 2 years. The chemistry was off the charts hot. I’ve even been in bed with him, but asked him to stop. He was the first one to RSVP for my birthday party, then didn’t show up. He spent the day with his friends instead. I got an apology two days after the party via email, not even a phone call. I accepted the apology a day later. Now it’s been a week since this happened and nothing from him. Nada. Poof. If you just scroll through this blog, you’ll see this seems to be fairly common as to how a lot of men treat women. Now do you understand my use of the word?
Karl R 13
Margo asked: (#6)
“Well, can anyone tell me why the scumbags do this? Have several dates with a woman and just disappear?!”
Sure.
In 2008 I dated a woman whom I’d met through dancing. After dating for six weeks, she suddenly vanished. Several months later, she showed up again at another dance function. She apologized. She was very concerned that I may have been hurt by her actions.
This woman is not a scumbag. She’s a sweet, friendly, bright, outgoing person. She has several flaws (like her inability to maintain a healthy life/work balance), but she’s a genuinely good person.
People do this as an act of cowardice. When you break up with someone, they get hurt (or angry or argumentative). When dealing with that person face-to-face, you don’t feel good about yourself. You’ve been in their shoes before. But this time, you’re the “bad guy.”
In order to avoid feeling like a “bad guy,” some people try to avoid having that confrontation. They break up by text or email or voicemail. In previous generations they would write a “Dear John” letter. Or they simply disappear. They’re choosing the way out which is easiest for them. They’re not bad people, just cowardly ones.
starthrower68 said: (#8)
“when a guy disappears, the first thing that often crosses our minds is what did we do wrong?”
When that woman disappeared, I assumed that she just wasn’t that into me. I later found out that there were other (external) factors which contributed to her decision, but HJNTIY is a safe bet.
Ruby asked: (#10)
“But how can you not be disappointed when someone disappears after a few actual promising dates without a word?”
When that woman disappeared (after six weeks of dating), I was moderately irritated (at how she handled it), but not disappointed or hurt.
You just spelled out the difference between us. You had a few “promising” dates. I had six weeks of “good” dates, “fun” dates. The dates didn’t “promise” me anything.
The person you dated didn’t promise you a long-term relationship. The date you went on was incapable of making promises. Any promise that existed was the creation of your own mind. If you stop making promises to yourself (promises that you’re incapable of fulfilling), you’ll feel a lot less disappointment.
You don’t need to have those expectations in order to have a successful relationship.
Last Saturday a friend reminded me of something that happened 1 or 2 months after I started dating my fiancée. This friend asked me if things were getting serious between my girlfriend and me, and I replied, “I don’t think it’s going to end up being a long-term, serious relationship, but we’re enjoing each other’s company for now.”
Upon hearing that my friend thought, “Karl, you’re an idiot.” (And she was happy to point that out to me now that I’m engaged.)
At that time, my fiancée and I were physically intimate. She was having me spend the night several times per week. She was acting more like my girlfriend than any other woman in the previous 9 years.
But before we’d started dating, she told me that she wasn’t interested in having a serious relationship with me. For the first 2 months of the relationship, she introduced me to people as her “dance partner.” (Since I have over 100 regular and semi-regular dance partners, that’s hardly a term of distinction.)
I was spending the night 4-5 times per week. We were having sex 3 times per week. She clearly liked me and enjoyed being with me. But I also recognized that she had made no promises.
I didn’t need to create an unfounded expectation in order to make the relationship work. I could keep a realistic view of where things stood at that point in time, act like a boyfriend, and create something based off reality, not fantasy.
Expectations cause you pain when they’re not fulfilled. Expectations are not necessary to creating a permanent relationship. Why do you keep creating these expectations?
ad 14
I think men and women are hardwired differently, and to tell a woman “not to be upset” when a guy disappears, is kind of like telling someone “to relax.” Can women help getting upset in these situations?
I couldn’t. Yes, I overattached. And was constantly disappointed. In the end I ended up with a man who never disappoints me, was always there when he said he would and did not disappear. But I really never got “beyond” the trait of hopefulness.
MysteeBee 15
@Margo- that sounds like a very frustrating experience! Has this happened to you before?
There aren’t any good explanations for this, without knowing more, although even then there might not be any good explanations!
I know women (myself included) have disappeared on men before too…we can all be very contrary when it comes to dating.
Really, though, if he’s not showing up to your birthday party, he just wasn’t/isn’t that into you.
Ruby 16
Karl #13
I get your point, but you are taking the word “promising” too literally. Of course, there is no actual verbal promise in the dates, but there is hope and encouragement of a potential relationship. And many of us feel disappointed, as well as irritated.
Where does the encouragement come from? From the other person. My friends and I have all dated men who have brought up future plans with us numerous times during the date, and then don’t follow through later on. As a result, I’ve learned to keep my expectations low in the early stages of dating. Have I changed my own mind about a man as I’ve gotten to know him better? Absolutely, that’s why I don’t get into a lot of “future” talk early on.
I also agree that people who disappear are cowardly. I do think that after 6 weeks of dating, the polite and thoughtful thing to do is to offer an explanation, even if it seems weak, rather than to simply vanish.
Bill 17
What goes around comes around. Both sexes are as bad. If this happens to you than you should probably not do this to someone else.
Nicole 18
Karl #13,
But it sounds like your now fiancee did exactly what a lot of women wished men would do. She was perfectly okay saying to your face what she wanted, and she articulated both to you and to other people.
Your point is great, but clearly, having someone who will come out and say, I’m not sure, but let’s enjoy this for now, is different from someone saying nothing at all…you didn’t have to worry about whether you were her boyfriend and you knew that at any point, she could have ended it and you wouldn’t have been left hanging…
Clearly it is harder for some people, of both genders, to be so rational and detached about all of this, even if you get it.
I think that to make this work, a lot of us have to fake it until we make it, and stay in the game. But this is like running in a race where you don’t know where the finish line is, and sometimes is looks as though it’s within reach and then suddenly it gets moved another 100 miles away.
Karl R 19
Nicole said: (#18)
“it sounds like your now fiancee did exactly what a lot of women wished men would do. [...] clearly, having someone who will come out and say, I’m not sure, but let’s enjoy this for now, is different from someone saying nothing at all…”
No it’s not different.
Have you ever started a relationship and been sure that you wanted to marry that person within the first few dates? Unless you’re dating some obsessive stalker, it’s far more likely that the person isn’t sure, and they’re just enjoying things while they figure out what they want.
When a person says nothing at all, just assume that they said, “I’m not sure where this is going to go, but let’s just have fun while we figure this out.” You’ll be right almost all of the time.
It’s convenient if my date clarifies where things stand, but I could safely guess that the woman who vanished after 6 weeks didn’t know what she wanted after week one. I was still assuming that was the case at week five. It’s certainly polite to verbally clarify things when you do make up your mind, but I think everyone on this blog is bright enough to figure out what the vanishing act means.
After a week of silence, I didn’t feel like I’d been left hanging. I felt like I’d been cut loose, and it was time to find another girlfriend.
Ruby said: (#16)
“My friends and I have all dated men who have brought up future plans with us numerous times during the date,”
I had one girlfriend freak out because she felt I was making “long-range future plans.” I had mentioned taking a walk through a particular neighborhood to see the Christmas lights … and I mentioned this during February.
In my mind, I wasn’t making a plan. I hadn’t paid money for a ticket. I hadn’t set aside a date. If a man’s plan doesn’t involve any effort on his part, then he’s just making conversation. He’s making a plan when he spends time, money or energy on it.
Nicole said: (#18)
“Clearly it is harder for some people, of both genders, to be so rational and detached about all of this, even if you get it.”
Until you “get it,” it’s impossible to be this rational and detached.
And when you do understand, you have to constantly remind yourself of it during the initial excitement of a new relationship.
But I’m capable of dating an amazing woman, having her vanish after six weeks, and walking away without disappointment (much less devastation). Would it be worth the effort to you to be able to save yourself that much pain?
Ruby said: (#16)
“I’ve learned to keep my expectations low in the early stages of dating.”
I learned the same thing. My date isn’t going to tell me that I’m setting my expectations too high (and if your date is explicitly trying to lower your future expectations, that’s a rather dismal sign).
Since I can’t count on the other person to limit my disappointment, then it’s up to me to do so. Blaming my date after the fact (even if she vanished after 6 weeks) is completely pointless.
starthrower68 20
@ Karl #13,
While I can appreciate you just guessed that the woman who disappeared on you just wasn’t that into you, not everybody is going to react the same way. It may not necessarily be right for a woman to assume she did something to scare a guy away, some women still assume it nonetheless.
I would also agree that its not so much expecting anything from a guy as it is being hopeful. Now if hope is being taken as expectation, what would you have us do? Evan is always telling women that we need to be open. We should not be hopeful? I need rules. Someone give me some rules. I don’t do well with this abstract stuff.
Evan Marc Katz 21
Karl’s right. When I’m not here, just listen to him. Congratulations on your fiance, buddy. She’s lucky to get a guy who understands relationships as you do.
Apple Jacks 22
I’ve been reading this blog for a couple of weeks now, and I would like to ask Karl if you have a blog or anything?
Cat 23
Karl said: (#19)
In my mind, I wasn’t making a plan. I hadn’t paid money for a ticket. I hadn’t set aside a date. If a man’s plan doesn’t involve any effort on his part, then he’s just making conversation. He’s making a plan when he spends time, money or energy on it.
Exactly! Thank you, Karl. When a guy I’m dating mentions wanting to take me on a weekend trip or to some expensive restaurant, I don’t take it seriously until he says he has reservations and has set a date. Until then, he’s just dreaming out loud, basically. Like you said, until “he spends time, money or energy on it” it’s not real.
Margo 24
@Karl-13. Why are you asking why are people creating expectations?? In my case, it’s not that I created expectations. I grew to like someone as a result of spending time with them and I got hurt when they left. Karl, you are rationalizing things as if human beings are made of steel. We aren’t. If you grew to like the woman you talk about in post 13 that disappeared on you, how could you just be “mildly disappointed” and not hurt. You wouldn’t be denying your feelings, would you? If you are, that isn’t healthy.
starthrower68 25
The correct response to most of what a guy says is to just smile and nod then dismiss it. Until there is any action to back it up, it’s idle chatter.
helene 26
I agree with starthrower – there seems to be rather contradictory advice going on here.
On the one hand we’re not supposted to “blame a new guy for previous guys bad behaviour” “expect him to earn our trust when he hasn’t done anything wrong” or “build protective walls.”
With each new guy we’re supposed to “start with a clean slate” and put out previous bad experiences and disappointments out of our minds. We’re supposed to “leave the door wide open, be smiling and have a welcome smell of cookies” floating out to meet him… In short we’re supposed to behave like someone who was young and naiive, unspoilt, optomistic and trusting, to create a welcoming environment for this new guy…
This is completely at odds with the advice to not get our hopes, up, EXPECT that 90% of men will disappear, not get excited about anything he says…. The optomistic unspoilt young girl WOULD be devastated and confused if a new guy who seemed keen then just vanished. Its only older, more cynical women who had zero expectations to start with who could take this in their stride.
So what’s it to be: cautious, self protective, low expectations and cynically unfazed when yet another guy disappears, or enthusiastic, welcoming, hopeful… and then inevitably disappointed when it comes crashing down. I’m afraid I’m not sure there’s a middle point here….?
Angie 27
I think it’s a bit rude after several dates to say nothing and just disappear, but I guess that’s the way it goes.
Getting all excited over a profile or an email seems dumb, though. I’ve met people on the internet who were NOTHING like their profile. I’ve also replied back because someone sent me a witty email and I hadn’t personally had time to look at their details yet, including location or whether or not they “hate” children, etc. (I have a bad habit of being impressed by witty emails/profiles, that I am realizing translates to nothing in reality, and attempting to not just respond because then guys start hinting at meeting up and I’m thinking “Maybe for friends”). I guess this can go both ways. Have women not done this as well?
Evan Marc Katz 28
@Helene “The mark of a first-rate intelligence,” Scott Fitzgerald wrote, “is the ability to hold contradictory ideas in the mind at the same time and still function”.
Yes, you’re supposed to remain open and optimistic about each new man. No, you’re not supposed to have particularly high expectations, since they’re rarely met in real life. Seems to me that’s the ONLY way to function. Unless you’d rather be a negative pessimist on dates (which is not attractive) and get completely derailed when a guy isn’t into you (which is not healthy).
helene 29
Well alas, it seems not all of us can aspire to the first rate intelligence of which you speak…. You’ll have to forgive me I’m only a cardiologist.
Karl R 30
starthrower68 said: (#20)
“It may not necessarily be right for a woman to assume she did something to scare a guy away, some women still assume it nonetheless.”
You give your child(ren) good advice. Children do not always follow their parents’ advice. If they choose not to, they face the consequences of that decision.
If you’re following Evan’s advice, you didn’t say or do anything to scare him away. If you choose to make erroneous assumptions, you’re going to torment yourself needlessly.
starthrower68 asked: (#20)
“Evan is always telling women that we need to be open. We should not be hopeful?”
Openness has to do with whether you seem approachable. This mannerism is under your control.
Your hope/expectation revolves around whether he’s going to ask you out again. That action is under his control.
I’m not understanding your question, because you’re seeing some connection between these two words that I’m not.
starthrower68 said: (#20)
“I need rules. Someone give me some rules.”
Until you’re exclusive, you can hope for the next date. If you’re hoping further ahead than that, you’re getting your hopes ahead of reality.
helene said: (#26)
“there seems to be rather contradictory advice going on here.”
Have you ever thought a man was Mr. Terrific after 3 or 4 dates, but a few months later you realized he was a jerk, so you dumped him?
You’re hoping that it will become a serious relationship after 3-4 dates, even though you haven’t decided yet whether he’s a keeper. That’s a contradictory attitude.
If you’re open and friendly to people in general (including those whom you’re not going to date), it’s not difficult to continue that habit with a potential boyfriend … even while recognizing that the odds of it working out are less than 5%.
helene said: (#26)
“The optomistic unspoilt young girl WOULD be devastated and confused if a new guy who seemed keen then just vanished. Its only older, more cynical women who had zero expectations to start with who could take this in their stride.”
I can act like I trust you … and I can do it without giving you my housekey or my credit card.
Start extrapolating that concept and you’ll eventually grasp how you can be open and still take setbacks in stride.
Margo asked: (#24)
“If you grew to like the woman you talk about in post 13 that disappeared on you, how could you just be ‘mildly disappointed’ and not hurt.”
I still like her. I know her even better now. But that doesn’t mean she’d make a good partner for me.
Would you want to have a lousy marriage with a terrific man? I’m thinking the “lousy marriage” part would quickly overwhelm the “terrific man” part.
Given how the dating ended between us, I concluded that I missed out (at most) on several months of a mediocre relationship with a great woman. And the thought of missing out on a mediocre relationship … well … it’s not particularly painful to me.
Apple Jacks, (#22)
No, I don’t have a blog.
starthrower68 31
Evan, while I have no argument with what you are saying, it’s easier said than done. I think Helene has some valid points and she says exactly what I’ve tried more than once to get across and have not been able to do. I understand that it not attractive to be a negative pessimist and not get completely derailed when a guy is not into me. I GET that. But there is a certain cognitive disconnect that goes along with this, which is tough to pull off. It’s almost like you have to split parts of yourself off.
Mika 32
starthrower68,
Believe it or not, but the way you deal with your frustration and disappointment from dating men is a skill. It’s something that you can master. Give me at least one reason why you should feel miserable when some man bolted for no apparent reason that would benefit your emotional well-being. I am not saying that it’s easy to let go of your emotional/intellectual/physical attachments and you should not be feeling down when another man did not choose to be with you. I understand that you have to give it a time to grieve, but feel devastated …why? Why do you have to punish yourself by choosing to feel that way because another person couldn’t make you happy for whatever reason (not ready/HIJNITY/other issues) ?
Rule #1 — love yourself first, because you are special, like everybody else.
Rule #2 — the way you handle your frustration and disappointment is a skill and a choice. You can always choose a different way of handling it. Yes, it takes time, practice and first of all willingness to change.
Rule #3 — read Rules 1&3.
Mika 33
to the previous post please correct
Rule #3– read Rules #1 & 2.
Mika 34
helene @29
I am also a physician and have come to realize that emotional intelligence does not correlate with an intellectual intelligence. As I already pointed out in my previous post, handling your emotions is a skill and a choice. As Evan always says and I totally agree with it — you can’t change men, so the only option you have — change yourself.
We tend to treat negative emotions as natural aspects of our mind over which we have no control. Taking them for granted, we ignore their destructive power and fail to understand the importance of challenging them. Ironically, we actually seem inclined to nurture and sustain them. Why focus so much on the effects of afflictive emotions?
Karl R 35
helene said: (#29)
“Well alas, it seems not all of us can aspire to the first rate intelligence of which you speak…. You’ll have to forgive me I’m only a cardiologist.”
Let me give you an example that even a cardiologist can understand:
When you refer a pation to a CV surgeon for a coronary bypass, the surgeon stops the patient’s heart as part of the procedure.
So, are you sending the patient to surgeon to save him or kill him?
starthrower68 said: (#31)
“it’s easier said than done.”
That’s true of almost everything.
starthrower68 said: (#31)
“But there is a certain cognitive disconnect that goes along with this, which is tough to pull off.”
It’s easier that you might think, but that’s essentially correct.
starthrower68 36
@ Karl #20,
Karl, I’m impressed. You even disect my snark.
Sayanta 37
I think it’s impossible to do as Evan and Karl suggest, although it makes sense on paper. Women are wired differently, it takes us longer to get over things. Telling me, for example, to behave as Karl did with the woman in his example would be similar to telling a man to stop checking out hot young things and wanting to bed them.
Ladies, we’re not going to ever stop getting devastated when men disappear. The only thing we can do is accept it (just like older men should accept that twentysomethings aren’t going to go out with them, unless they’re rock stars), and focus on finding a purpose other than relationship. This does NOT mean I’m advocating celibacy, but only that the key to stop STAYing heartbroken by men is to find a pursuit that takes attention away from them.
Margo 38
I think that Evan isn’t saying that it’s not going to hurt when a guy disappears, just that you should expect it as normal behavior for guys (these are your scumbags). This way, you can manage your expectations and won’t be completely devastated when it happens. That is the key.
With this guy that just poofed on me, who was/is a friend nonetheless, a few years back I would have had high hopes because of the things he was saying to me and been completely devasted by his actions. Now, after reading Evan’s blogs, and similiar blogs, and stories of how often men poof, I knew there was a 50/50 chance of his disappearing-that number is actually higher because of his severe emotional problems. In any case, was I still hurt? Yes, but definitely not as much as I could have been had I not realized that disappearing men are common these days. Is it right and decent what they do? No. However, it is what it is. Therefore, protect your heart people. I think that is really all Evan is saying. Correct me if I’m wrong Evan.
Angie 39
“Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiasm” – Winston Churchill
Had this quote in my head the other day, but think it applies to this post. Not saying short-lived relationships/dating experiences etc. are “failures” b/c you can learn something from a “failure” and enjoy 90% of a “failure”… it’s just not “til death do us part”.
Helene, I agree with Evan – I’m fully optimistic about meeting people. Having enthusiasm doesn’t mean getting emotionally wrapped up. If you are feeling worn out, cynical, and sick of it, give yourself a break for a couple months until you are feeling refreshed.
Margo 40
@Mika#34, no we don’t have to nurture and cleave onto the negative feelings. However, we are going to feel them.
@Karl #35, I disagree. It’s NOT easy, Karl. Again, if you like someone and they leave, it’s going to hurt and isn’t easy to get to a point where it doesn’t hurt. That is human nature to hurt when we get disappointed. God made us that way, and that won’t be changing. Anything else is denial.
To Karl and Mike, yes you can choose how to deal with that hurt. For instance, you can do things to help yourself get over it faster, but to say it’s not going to hurt when you liked that person on some level…Well, you’re not being honest with yourself.
Also, Karl please humor me: What is your point to Helene with the “heart procedure” example?
Evan Marc Katz 41
You got it, Margo. You can’t change what guys do. You can only change your reaction to them. Are you going to let dating beat you? Or are you going to give each new guy a chance to show you why he’s worthy of your attention?
Apple Jacks 42
Karl,
I see. I asked because you have very good insight and I am learning a lot from reading your posts.
starthrower68 43
Sayanta,
I tend to agree with you. Women are wired to be relational creatures and relationship-oriented. You are correct in that the best way to address the issue is to have a busy and fulfulling life and friends whom we can rely on for emotional support. Men are better able to function with the “disconnect” because they have a greater ability to comparmentalize.
starthrower68 44
@ Mika #32,
I see the assumption was made that I am devastated when I guy disappears even though I said no such thing. I personally am not devastated when a guy disappears because I am fully aware of 1, 2, and 3. But thanks anyway. Sorry abou the double post Evan,.
Jules 45
I have a bit of a different take on this. While I agree with the rational argument that you should keep your expectations low, and not be surprised if a man (or woman) ditches you after a few dates, or a few weeks or whatever. I really like the excitement and anticipation of a new relationship. I like feeling optimistic. I have learned enough to not be surprised when it doesn’t work out, and yes, I am disappointed, and sad (and this is true even if I am the one end it). Not so much for the loss of a man who obviously wasn’t right for me, but for the loss of the potential that maybe this time I had found a lifelong partner.
The early part of a relationship–those first few dates and weeks and months–are exciting, and I’m not going to temper it in my mind just to avoid feeling disappointed. I do live according to that old saying that you can’t ever really feel the highs if you don’t feel the lows. I let myself feel both. It’s human.
Terri 46
IMO dating was much easier “back in the days”. There were actually unwritten rules and men and women knew what to expect from each other. When the book “The Rules” came out, it was quite controversial but it provided a game plan to follow for those who were interested.
I have been happily married for a number of years and have two grown kids. Perhaps I sound pessimistic but I feel that in 2011, single men and women have so many options that it is hard to make a choice. Too many options!
I think the answer is – there is no answer. Men and women will have to blunder along, do their best and have other interests while looking for Ms. or Mr. Right.
I have an MS in Psychology and have worked with different types of people for over 25 years, having had a brick and mortar dating service for awhile. What my clients said they wanted and how they behaved were usually totally different. Many of them had no concept of what they were bringing to the table and wanted/expected perfection.
I think you can improve the way you write your online profile to entice more responses but you cannot change much about yourself – and who you basically are. You can lose or gain weight and upgrade your appearance but essentially, you are either lucky or not so lucky in love!
I wish you all Good Luck!
Sarah 47
I think part of the problem is a lot of people (both men and women) will behave in such a way as to give the impression that they are more interested or committed than they truly are. This happens in many aspects of life, not just dating. Your best friend might act all enthusiastic about going on vacation to Europe with you, but then when you make noises about buying the plane tickets, the **** hits the fan and you realize it was just a bunch of hot air — a fantasy for the other person, not something s/he actually intended to follow through on.
I’ve been with guys who talked of love and commitment and marriage (yes, with me personally, not in a general sort of way) and would later completely disappear for no apparent reason. Why? I think they were very immature. They liked the idea of getting married someday, and I was the most likely candidate at the given moment, and they thought nothing of leading me on when they weren’t truly sincere.
What am I to learn from this? Even a guy who says all the right things (“yes, I’d love to be your boyfriend”) can’t necessarily be trusted. I’m tempted to think the only safe bet is to wait until he puts a big hard rock on your finger. He might not mind toying with your heart, but he won’t spend that kind of money unless he’s “real.” Perhaps experience has made me cynical. And YES women do this crap too!
Karl R 48
Margo said: (#38)
“I knew there was a 50/50 chance of his disappearing-that number is actually higher because of his severe emotional problems. In any case, was I still hurt? Yes, but definitely not as much as I could have been had I not realized that disappearing men are common these days.”
“Therefore, protect your heart people. I think that is really all Evan is saying.”
I won’t speak for Evan, but that’s what I’m trying to say. Look at it like a continuum. Evan’s client Sandy is at one point. I’m at another. You (Margo) are somewhere between us. You want to reach a point where you find the pain of a breakup acceptable.
Margo said: (#38)
“to say it’s not going to hurt when you liked that person on some level…Well, you’re not being honest with yourself.”
I wouldn’t claim that I feel nothing under those circumstances, but describing the feeling as hurting or painful? Not even close. I can’t imagine describing it as being “devastated” as Sayanta did (#37).
It may partly be a choice of words. “Devastated” sounds more dramatic, and garners more sympathy than “somewhat bummed out.” But I’ve seen psychological studies that showed that our choice of words affects our perception of events … particularly in how we remember them after the fact.
Sayanta said: (#37)
“I think it’s impossible to do as Evan and Karl suggest, although it makes sense on paper. Women are wired differently, it takes us longer to get over things.”
If you’re convinced that something is impossible and refuse to attempt it, it will be impossible … for you.
In my experience, it was much easier than overcoming a phobia. It was more comparable to becoming able to laugh at myself instead of being embarassed or mortified during an awkward mishap.
If I remember correctly, you’ve previously described yourself as being a smart and strong woman. Bouncing back from stuff like this is a big part of inner strength. Maybe the biggest part.
Anita 49
Evan, I’m wondering if Karl R is your protege? Better sign him up to be one of yours before he’s snatched away!!! =P
Karl R, are you a pseudo relationship coach or an understudy for Mr. Katz? =P Really like your comments.
I do want to add a little of my perspective on what Sayanta (#37) mentioned about how women are wired emotionally and your response. I do somewhat agree, Mr. R, from your words (#48) to Sayanta - If you’re convinced that something is impossible and refuse to attempt it, it will be impossible … for you.
I hate to generalise but here goes….
I guess it depends on the make up of the person whether they are more of an emotional creature or more the thinkers. As a general rule of thumb, women are often brought up to be in tuned to their feelings hence they will be more emotional. “We” may not compartmentalise as well as men do in some of the emotional department (mind you, it is very much dependent on the way you are brought up).
Now speaking in a non-gender biased, when the gates of our hearts are “shaken” or “broken through”, our emotions/feelings come flooding. Our heart often marches to its own rhythm as does our head. The trick is to be able to connect successfully the heart and the head, which will take some time to adjust to. (It is often difficult to see the trees from the woods if you are in some emotional spin.) One cannot live by heart or head alone. It either makes us too “overly dramatic” or cold/robotic. We are feeling and thinking creatures, after all. We can either be emotive thinkers or practical feelers (trying to be a smarty pants…. =P)
If you’re hurt or bummed in the process of dating/relationship, there is LIGHT at the end of the tunnel. The adage of “what doesn’t kill you, will make you stronger”. The skin of your heart will thicken to a point where if it is thrown away, your heart will be able to bounce right back. The thicker the skin will ensure the level of “bouncability” of your heart when thrown . (As is expressed in Karl R’s post #48)
In my round about way of saying, I believe it is okay to go through the moments of grief/sadness but do put it into perspective which is dependent on the depth/length of your relationship with the person in question.
Margo 50
Well, the guy that poofed on me came back. I don’t know what he really wants, but oh well. I want to apologize to you men on here for using the word “scumbag” so loosely. There are MANY scumbags out there, but sometimes it’s my anger and disappointment that drives the use of that word.
This guy that came back isn’t a scumbag. Now, the guy I dated 3 years ago and has tried to come back each year, now he’s definitely a scumbag. I think the guy I was interested in is just confused, dosen’t know what he wants, might not be in a good place emotionally for a relationship. Something keeps drawing him to me, maybe it’s the friendship, dunno.
I do believe that if a guy really does disappear and doesn’t come back withint at least a week’s time, the lady is OWED a reason.
Josie 51
I am so mad, upset, enraged, disappointed all at same time
We have been seeing each other since Feb, honestly not sure if it was dating…didn’t want to ask him.
How can you not heard from someone for whole of Eatser holiday, not even a full stop!
That only shows the lack of care, concern on the person..
I really cannot stand anyone who is this distant/cold and heartless
It may not be the best decision I have made but this time I follow my heart I already tolerate for 4 days already, everyday I kept myself busy not to think about it
At end of day can’t help but wonder how horrible is this person making me feel, If that is the case, best to say bye now , so I sent him a text tell him take care and bye
so by fifth day I said it and no reply on his part after bye.
I don’t know anymore
Karl R 52
Margo said: (#50)
“I do believe that if a guy really does disappear and doesn’t come back withint at least a week’s time, the lady is OWED a reason.”
As long as you feel he is indebted to you, you are still connected to him. If he does not feel that he owes you an explanation, then that connection only goes one way.
Do you want to remain connected indefinitely (or permanently) to a man who does not want to date you? As long as you believe that he owes you, the existence of that connection is under his control. He can either refuse to give you an answer, or he can give you an answer that you find unsatisfactory.
Would you even be satisfied with the explanation? Most people don’t want to give an explanation that’s harsh. Most people don’t want to give an explanation that makes them appear to be the bad guy. (And the explanations get particularly convoluted when the person is trying to give you an explanation that fulfills both requirements.) Furthermore, you don’t want an explanation that’s harsh, or one that makes you appear to be the bad guy.
Do you really expect that you’re going to get a reason that’s the unedited truth?
When that woman vanished after six weeks of dating, I decided that she didn’t own me an explanation, because I didn’t want to remain tied to her. It was much easier to move on without that lingering connection.
You’re getting hung up on what’s right or wrong. I’m telling you that it’s not in your self-interest to require a reason. Assume that the person who disappeared wasn’t that into you. That’s enough of a reason, and it’s probably as accurate as the reason they would tell you.
TS 53
I don’t think being mentally prepared for a man to disappear will reduce heartbreak if he does. The reason is that, to like someone, one has to be open to them, and if one’s open to them, then one gets attached, and if one gets attached, it hurts when that other person leaves. It doesn’t matter whether we’re talking a friendship, a dating relationship or the cat who came by for an ear scratch and a spot of milk, when the other person disappears, the heart breaks! Okay, in some instances it’s only a stress fracture or a severe bruising, but the pain of rejection is still there.
Trenia 54
I agree with much of what you’re saying,but what’s problematic for me is what’s problematic with most dating advice, and it’s the assumption that the woman must placate and back peddle to make a dating relationship work. The assumption that “men can never change” implies that the woman must change or tweak her approach so that he’ll want her. I think what most women want is for a man to be a person of good character and integrity and be so in his dealings with us, regardless of whether or not it turns into something long-term. In short, be a grown up, plain and simple.
Karl R 55
Trenia said: (#54)
“The assumption that ‘men can never change’ implies that the woman must change or tweak her approach so that he’ll want her.”
You’re misstating the assumption. The assumption is, “The only person I can change is myself.” It’s true whether you’re a man or a woman.
So if your current approach isn’t working, you can either continue the same unsuccessful approach (likely experiencing the same results), you can change yourself (in order to get different results), or you can say that the other person needs to change so it will work (and then wait an eternity while they choose not to change).
Evan and I didn’t get our relationships by saying women needed to change. We got our relationships by changing as necessary until we could get what we wanted.
And if the problem is the other person, you still can’t get them to change. You solve that problem by leaving and finding someone else.
Margo 56
Well, Karl, “owed” was a bad choice of words. The “decent” thing to do when ending a relationship is to offer some explanation rather than pulling a disappearing act.
starthrower68 57
Margo,
I understand the spirit of what you are saying. It would be nice to get that closure. What I have found when a man disappears is that as long as I behaved well it doesn’t matter why he disappeared. If he wasn’t into me, had another woman, whatever, if he chooses to go then he needs to stay gone. I can get closure for myself. Yes, having a man offer some explanation is the decent thing to do, but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
Margo 58
Thanks, Karl and Starthrower, @Karl, I’d like to know who did the heavy lifting in your relationship in terms of initiating contact, calling first, planning dates? For some reason, I get the feeling it was your fiancee.
Evan’s wife is an extroardinary woman for staying calm and collected when Evan was doing his once a week thing. I’m not that extroardinary. So, for the rest of us what do we say when someone has been MIA for a week or so, then reappears? Why are you back?
InsertPseudonymHere 59
@Margo
Another is “Why did you go silent?” Your question is as good as saying “Go away.” If that is what you really feel, say that directly. If you want to work on the interaction, the former is better.
@Josie You sound pretty roughed up. I am sympathetic to your pain even as I point out your path into it and out of it is under your control. He has been inconsiderate, but he is not “making” you feel anything. How you feel about his behavior is on you. Until you acknowledge you own your pain and feelings and stop relying/allowing others to make them, I guarantee you will be tossed around again and again. Good luck
starthrower68 60
Unless he offers a good explanation (because I would not demand or expect one), has disappeared and then returns, it would be difficult for me to continue on. While he’s been doing whatever it is he’s been doing, I’ve accepted that there’s nothing there, moved on, and went about my life. Its difficult to do a complete reversal of that. I’m sure I will be told it shouldn’t be, but I don’t tend to mess around with these things.
AS 61
Just reading through the threads and some great points made. I believe that it ultimately comes down to a couple of things…
When you do not get closure from any experience it often superficially intensifies and prolongs the process of getting over someone, so inevitably it’s going to hurt when someone just disappears, no explanation.
Secondly, I think women are more guilty of doing this then men, when you are dating someone you forget to live in and enjoy the present moment. You over analyse and rather than taking what a guy say’s at face value try to read too much into it. Add to that fantasies of being with this person in the future, dreaming about how things would be etc you then create false expectations. But note, you created them not him. So when the guy disappears you risk losing sight of actually what you had and start mourning over what you had plus what you wanted to have. In fact you could have saved yourself from some degree of heart ache if you just made a conscious effort to manage your own expectations and accept the present moment rather than looking beyond, even though it was really bad mannered of him to actually disappear without an explanation and I am not trying to take away from that.
Gem 62
We women are great at getting ahead of ourselves. Maybe because we are more emotionally or relationally wired.
I think Evan’s advice that you can “hope” for the next date and nothing more while getting to know someone is very smart. Remember, we are checking them out to see if we even want them and to do that, we need to view them realistically and not place hopes and dreams on the initial chemistry and sweet things they may say.
The phrase “He’s not real until he’s your boyfriend” should be printed in bold letters and read daily while dating someone new to remind us. This statement is also why women shouldn’t sleep with a man until he’s their boyfriend. Sex confuses our thinking as well. Once our bodies are involved we want him to be what we hope, and it’s more difficult to see him realistically.
Karl R 63
starthrower68 said: (#60)
“I’ve accepted that there’s nothing there, moved on, and went about my life. Its difficult to do a complete reversal of that. I’m sure I will be told it shouldn’t be,”
I’d say that doing a complete reversal would be a mistake.
Unless the person has an exceptionally good reason for being absent and incommunicado, you have learned something about them that affects the relationship going forward: you now know that under certain circumstances you can’t rely upon them to communicate with you.
That is who the person is. You can’t count on them to change. And it’s generally not an easy trait to live with.
Margo asked: (#58)
“Karl, I’d like to know who did the heavy lifting in your relationship in terms of initiating contact, calling first, planning dates?”
I did most of the initiating, asking and planning. (I checked with her, and that’s her recollection as well.)
SS 64
Margo,
I hope I’m not being too rude, but I remember when you first started talking about this man, and a few things that you said seemed to raise a red flag, at least for me.
This is a man who told you that if he has sex with a woman too soon, he sees her differently and loses interest. While I know that a number of men might think this way, if a man I’m dating (or was dating) tells me this, it tells me a few things about him that I consider to be distasteful — especially if he’s the one that attempted or successfully initiated sex and then decides to “judge” me for it.
It seems that this is what he did to you.
In general, I believe in waiting until a guy is your boyfriend before sex, but since that didn’t happen (and no judgment on my part, BTW), I think that created the situation that Evan always talks about. Women often learn after the fact that a man wasn’t necessarily interested in a relationship simply because he showed interest in the early going. This is why he tells us to slow down and hold back on that level of intimacy so we can find out for sure if a man is actually interested in us versus just having sex with us.
I too can vouch for my husband doing all of the heavy lifting in the relationship early on… he always called first, planned dates, initiated contact… I never had to question anything in terms of his sincerity and he never “poofed.” And the best thing was, I just got to sit back and observe his actions to figure out exactly what his interest level was.
BeenThereDoneThat 65
What about a guy who does the disappearing act and vanishes for 6 weeks and then reappears? I didn’t mind the disappearing act because, honestly, I wasn’t feeling it either and had decided it was better to end things; his disappearing told me that he felt the same. But now he is back and I’m still not interested. Do I owe HIM an explanation?
I feel that people sometimes just disappear. I also feel that sometimes giving a reason invites people to think its a negotiation.
Michael17 66
Trenia #54: The onus is on every single one of us, male or female, to change if we aren’t getting what we want. Otherwise we keep getting the same results, because the world isn’t going to change for our benefit. Sometimes “change” might mean walking away from those who aren’t giving us what we want more quickly than we have been doing in the past.
On a related note: I can tell you that women have self-defeating tendencies that guys who want to date successfully had better get, or else. The big thing is precisely your tendency to get ahead of yourselves. Many women put a lot of stock in this whole “first-date chemistry” thing, and it doesn’t serve anyone. Either you’re not giving someone who could be great for you a chance (“if I’m not feeling he could be the one for me after one date I’m never going to feel it”), or you are hooked on someone you don’t know all that well.
And yes, women do the disappearing act too! It sucks to have that done to you whether you are female or male.
Michael17 67
Sarah #47: Good point. Although by now I disagree with telling women that I want to be their boyfriend when I am still not really sure.
It’s something like interviewing. When I was looking for a position and I was going on interviews, I made it a point to be well-prepared, engaged, and *interested* when on that interview. I made the best impression I could, and this was whether I was sure I really wanted the job or not. It was in my best interest to do so. See as much as possible, I wanted to have the choice as to what job I would take. So my strategy was to get them interested, and then after I could assess how much I liked what they showed me.
I wonder if that is what is happening in this article. The guy probably was making an effort to make a strong impression, and THEN he was evaluating his feelings. He disappeared because, well, what was he going to tell her, after what he said and did those two dates. For the record, I think his disappearing was poor behavior on his part, but c’est la vie.
Claudia 68
Evan, you need to tell people that don’t want to see someone again to tell them SOMETHING. Disappearing is the most evil and cowardly thing someone can do to someone else. It just leaves the person hanging in mid air, probably with with false hopes and lowered self esteem. That sucks.
If I’m not into a guy I tell him that I don’t think we’re right for each other, or I’ve gone back to an old boyfriend. ANYTHING is better than nothing. Even a lie is better than nothing. Knowing that somone is not into you might be painful but in the end it’s freeing because it’s over, there’s nothing really to dwell on anymore. It’s over and you know it. But, if someone just disappears there can always be a question, or a worry that you did something wrong. It can be mind boggling.
I have always had more respect (I guess that’s the word) for a man who TOLD me it’s over rather than just disappear.
starthrower68 69
@ Been There #65,
If you want to give him an explanation as a matter of courtesy, then you can certainly do that. But you do not OWE him an explanation. While I realize that tit-for-tat does not a successful relationship bring, you were not the one to disappear. If he felt it was better to end things, it’s likely he’s got nothing else going on, so he thought he’d see if he could start something with you again. I wouldn’t put much, if any stock in it.
@ Michael17 #67,
So how do you resolve the conundrum of a woman keeping her interest in you close to the vest when you impress her? Because as we know, a woman may well be interested but if she’s smart, she’s not going to take a great first date too seriously knowing full well that it means nothing.
SS 70
Claudia 68,
Evan, you need to tell people that don’t want to see someone again to tell them SOMETHING
Evan could say that, but it won’t stop people from disappearing and not saying anything. Nothing is going to make a man (or woman) change their behavior, and certainly not anything someone tells them to do. (Especially not a man, lol).
That’s why the best thing is simply to focus on how we can deal with such behavior if or when it happens, and find the healthiest way to move on.
Margo 71
Claudia you seem really hurt and I sympathize.
Ok, after reading the last couple posts I’m confused. Did this guy I’m interested in disappear or not? Or did he disappear and come back? He missed a very important event in my life, gave me a reason and apologized. After that it was nada for a week, then contact.
Anita 72
Just curious with the posters who shared their sad experiences about the “disappearing” or inconsistent men, have they officiated your relationship to boyfriend/girlfriend status? Have they professed to be “Yours Truly”?
If they haven’t, I guess what Evan’s blog would answer any queries about the guy in question.
Michael17 73
starthrower #69: Not sure what your question is. A woman lets on that she’s impressed, but she is smart, she keeps it to herself if she is smitten.
Many women do what appears to be the same thing I mentioned in my post #67. I’ve gone on first dates where, going by the woman’s behavior, I was “positive” the woman was into me. The conversation just flowed, with her clearly engaged and asking me lots of questions, and we even were holding hands. When I walked her to her car she offered to drive me to mine. But then I never saw her again, her decision not mine. This has happened more than once. Maybe in each case the girl was acting more interested than she really was, for the reason I mentioned in #67?
MilkyMae 74
Michael17 #73, This may sound cheesy but her offer to drive you to your car after a first date is most likely an attempt to see what you are driving. Especially considering that she asked you lots of questions during the date. Baby seats or obnoxious bumper sticks may be red flags for her. The offer is not a positive or a negative.
SS 75
Anita #72…
Exactly. That’s the whole point Evan is trying to make.
In my life, all of the “poofs” and disappearing acts came from men who NEVER EXPRESSED THAT WE WERE BOYFRIEND AND GIRLFRIEND. And yes, while it’s always disappointing when something that appears to be promising vanishes, the overall lesson I had to learn — and that Evan is teaching here — is that we never had anything to begin with. We were just dating, and honestly, the man does have every right to just walk off without an explanation because we never established anything in the first place. I say the woman has the same right as well.
While I do hate it when these men engage in talk about wanting to take trips together, go a particular place on a date or have me meet family and friends, and then never follow through, again, until they’ve specifically professed something to me and stated that we were in a relationship, there’s nothing really to bank on.
Karl R 76
starthrower68 asked: (#69)
“So how do you resolve the conundrum of a woman keeping her interest in you close to the vest when you impress her?”
I’m not seeing a conundrum either.
Let’s assume two savvy daters go on a first date. Both try to make it a good date, because they’d like the other person to be into them, and they’d like the option of having a second date (if that’s what they want). Furthermore, both recognize that the other person is doing the exact same thing.
The goal (for both of them) is to have the option for a second date. If the man was sufficiently impressed, he will ask the woman out again. If not, he won’t. If the woman was sufficiently impressed, she will accept the invitation. If not, she won’t.
As a man, I want to know whether the woman is sufficiently interested. When I ask a woman out, I will get a response. (For those of you who are confused, silence is a response which means “No thanks.”)
Claudia said: (#68)
“Evan, you need to tell people that don’t want to see someone again to tell them SOMETHING.”
The people who need to hear this aren’t coming to Evan asking about the polite way to break up. And if you offer advice to people who aren’t listening, you’re just wasting your time.
Claudia said: (#68)
“Disappearing is the most evil and cowardly thing someone can do to someone else.”
Is that really the most evil thing you can imagine one person doing to another?
If so, you’re shockingly naive. I could not imagine having a partner who was that naive. At some point my fiancée and I will have to deal with one of us suffering from a devastating illness or injury. We can rely on each other to function through crises and tragedies. We won’t have to deal with the crisis -and- our partner going to pieces at the same time.
If you’re not that naive, than you’re acting like a drama queen. I have Jewish friends who lost extended family members to the holocaust. I have a friend from Eastern Europe whose family suffered attrocities at the hands of both the Germans and the Soviets. I have friends who were forcibly raped. My grandparents were murdered in a failed robbery. I would be embarassed if my fiancée were to describe an act of rudeness as “the most evil thing” in front of anyone who has actually experienced something more worthy of that claim.
That’s the kind of statement that will drive men away.
I realize that you’re probably hurting right now, and that it’s probably the pain talking. But at some point I’m going to unintentionally do something that hurts my fiancée. While I’m sure she will let me know when that happens, she won’t be overreacting at that time. You are overreacting.
I realize I’m being harsh, but you’re sending up a red flag when you say things like that. And when you’re finished being offended at my harshness, you might find it useful to know about the red flag.
TiA 77
great advice Evan. I think that is key to dating, not getting your hopes up too much. I do this now when dating, but honestly, even if ur not emotionally invested and just have a few dates, the dissapointment is there. It gets tiring. I recommend people to take breaks and do something good for themselves, volunteer, go on a trip. etc. helps me
Michael17 78
I do feel Claudia #68′s pain RE disappearing acts. Disappearing is classless and it is disrespectful IMO too.
Now I don’t think she really feels that it is worse than other crimes against humanity, but it does suck to be disappeared on. There is actually a chemical reaction in our bodies that somewhat resembles crack withdrawal.
MilkyMae #74: I drive a 9-year-old Dodge. Thanks to the woman dropping me off, I have gotten to sit inside a brand new BMW and an Audi though. If a woman is writing me off because of that, then good. I dodged a bullet.
Michael17 79
By the way Karl #76, it does sound that you have seen a lot. Wow.
Josie 80
InsertPseudonymHere
thx for your comment and yes only if we allow others to make us feel that way.
So now, I just gather he is just not that into me …
and go on find others who will
I feel calmer than better
wish everyone love
Anita 81
SS#75
Touche, mon ami with what you said about “…there is NOTHING to bank on” with words. What you described about how men says this and that, based on the feeling of the moment, can be described as an intention. However an intention is just that; an intention. Unless he follows up with action, that will cement where you are in his life. As they say: Action speaks louder than words.
Otherwise, do try to put things into perspective and hold onto your heart until you KNOW his actions are consistent over TIME. (I mean more than days or weeks).
By the way, this applies to either gender and in romantic or non-romantic relationships.
Joe 82
To those of you who feel a man (or woman) owes you an explanation as to why (s)he doesn’t want to go out with you anymore, when do you feel you are owed this explanation–after one date? two dates? five dates?