Am I Too Old to Have Success in Online Dating?
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Hi Evan,
I feel like I am “aging out” of online dating. I’ve noticed after my last birthday (I turned 54 in June) that the response I get on match.com has dropped to almost nothing. It’s as though moving from the early 50s to the mid 50s is some kind of death-knell for a dating life. I initiate contact with men in an age-range of about 3 years younger up to about 8 years older than myself. The potential matches that the site sends me are age appropriate for me, but when I look at the age-range that those men desire, (usually 35-50) I often move past them, knowing I can’t compete with women in their desired range, even though many of those men are as much as 5-8 years older than me! In other words, Match.com knowingly sends me matches that are probably not realistic for me to pursue. When I have emailed some of those guys, I never hear back. I’m guessing they check out my profile, see my age, and probably read no further. Even if I am within their desired range, I still don’t get much of a response. I assume the reason for this is they can get younger women to respond to them, so why would they go for me when they have a chance with the 45 year-old version of me? If their first wife was their age, like a college sweetheart or whatever, they probably feel entitled to a newer model, so to speak. Our culture encourages this. It’s frustrating, not to mention depressing and more than a little humiliating. It’s the built-in folly of online sites: you are only defined by your age, in bold type right next to your user name.
I am a youthful, fit and free-spirited woman and to be honest, I’m not ready for the retired 65-70+ year old guys. I don’t mean those men any disrespect, I just want to date a guy closer to my age so that I have a longer future with him, and I don’t feel that I should have to apologize for that. I have taken your and others’ advice about profile writing, and I have great photos, so I feel confident that the problem is not in how I present myself. I am disinclined to lie about my age. It always comes out eventually and I’d hate to have to explain myself then. I’m not ashamed of my age and hiding it seems phony. When I meet men in person in my daily life, I get a better response because they see the whole me, hear my voice, get a sense of what I’m like, all before they know how old I am, meaning I can be defined by other qualities. It’s difficult to meet large numbers of men that way, but I’m starting to feel like my chance of making a non age-biased connection with a guy is only out in the real world. And the real-world opportunities can be few and far between. Any insight? –Sara
Dear Sara,
Older men have more options than older women (online and in real life) because they can usually date somewhat younger.
I can’t disagree with anything you’ve observed about online dating and age. I can only disagree with your ultimate conclusion.
So here are the facts:
Older men have more options than older women (online and in real life) because they can usually date somewhat younger.
Older men have a huge blind spot when it comes to age. They refuse to even consider women their own age, even if she’s fit and attractive. Worse, they’re hypocritical about it, because they don’t understand why the vast majority of younger women won’t go for them.
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105 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating
Kathleen 1
Great timing for this post as my 54th birthday looms up next month. I agree with everything Evan says and based on your advice Evan Ive tweaked my profile with your suggestions e.g. making it about what I offer them . Most importantly I agree your photos have to be great.
I chose to adjust my age down a few years since I was being eliminated by what seems like half the men my age when I put my real age. Since Im in very good shape physically it doesn’t seem a problem when I disclose my real age when someone makes initial contact.
Match is a much more age criteria oriented site than say POF.
Ive asked some of the guys my age who have contacted me as an “exception” about their success with their age range search. It is often 10-20 years younger than them and these are very “average” appearing guys . They have told me of their frustration with lack of responses. What interesting is that younger guys ( early 40s) vs those my own age seem more interested.
Andrew 2
Men over 45 do have more options regarding dating. But there are ways around this. First, a woman has to specifically state what she offers a man (that he wants) in the context of dating and relationships. I’ve read thousands of female profiles (35-55 years old) and almost none of them actually state what they offer a man. Normally, it’s a list of demands and preferences. This is not good marketing. A woman must be able to answer the question “What do I offer a man that he wants?” If she doesn’t know, (or is offended by the question) she’s not ready for dating.
Here’s something else to consider – while women are the gatekeepers to sexuality, men are the gatekeepers to commitment.
Kathleen 3
Andrew
Beside sexual favors… just kidding…..what do you specifically want to see women offer in her profile ?
I can’t imagine a woman being offended by that question. Im in sales and you are right Its all about marketing to fill a need
Misha 4
My advice besides the review and polishing Evan recommends, is to try some of the senior dating sites. I’ve seen one called ourtime, i think that is specifically for 45 and up. Match comes across as the proverbial meat market where everyone thinks they can order up their version of fillet minion and lobster and are puzzled and militant when they don’t get it.
I’m only 4 months into 46 and have noticed that I’m past my sell by date to most men my age. they might grudgingly go to 45 or 44. And I’ve only noticed a limited number of profiles of men who will go 2-4 years older then their age.
Try some other sites do the real life activities where you can meet new people etc.
Julia 5
I think we all feel this way. I am 31 and rarely receive a response from men under the age of 35, and most men who contact me are over 40. I wouldn’t mind dating a man in his early 30s but its obvious they aren’t interested in women 30 and over.
Laura 6
I am 53 and can relate to the writer’s frustration, but also agree with all of Evan’s advise. I met my now fiance, 2 years younger, on-line last year on OKCupid.com, a free site, after having very limited success with Match.com (paid). Venture onto some other sites, be patient, do the work. It only takes one “right” guy to discover your profile and deem you his perfect match.
Katelyn 7
I am part of the I find Match.com frustrating for someone my age, club. I am sixty one. I don’t look like I am in my sixties nor does my energy and mindset fit for that age group. I always have photos that are current. I just joined match again about 2 weeks ago and within that time I have been winked at 40 times, 6 of those from real people, I think, and the 36 from men who disappear in 3 days. I have received at least 10 emails from men saying contact me at blablabla.yahoo and they also disappear. I am pretty sure they are “fishing”.
Like the writer, I have emailed a number of men who don’t email back. Match has made it very easy to say “no thank you” and that doesn’t even happen. I also find them men are looking for women 10-15 or more years younger. I find it interesting that a lot of these men have pictures of themselves that are younger, some even post photos from High School.
I have tried the “what do I have to offer” approach and that didn’t stimulate interest either. I have a lot to offer by the way in terms of what I bring to a relationship.
I tried an experiment once and lowered my age to see what would happen and I did have more men viewing my profile and connected with a man who joined me for lunch. When he found out I had “lied” about my age he was furious! He didn’t care that I didn’t look my age, but was more focused on the fact that I was “untruthful” in his eyes.
I concur that I am at a disadvantage because of my age when it comes to online dating. It is as though once you reach 60 your in a category that no one explores unless they are well over 70 or a fake profile.
Ellen 8
I am the perfect person to weigh in as 1) I am 59 and 2) I just spent 3 years dating online, on all the major sites. Dated primarily younger men, and sometimes much younger men (17, 22 years!), men from all over the US, every race except Asian, nearly every social class even. Like Misha, I noticed VERY few men had broad age ranges: Most stopped at dating anyone more than 2 years older.
And like Kathleen says (“What’s interesting is that younger guys ( early 40s) vs those my own age seem more interested.”) is true. I asked one why he was willing to pursue me and he said all the good women were married by their early 40s so his “pool” was limited. The problem with the 40+ guys is they will never commit to you, or very seldom (if you are older).
The funny thing is both me and my current bf ONLY dated younger for the most part when online dating. He said it was vanity on his part and I told him I did it ’cause I could (get away with it). But as I’ve stated numerous times on this blog, I also was only able to date younger (my usual preference except for my current same-age bf) cause I lied about my age. Shaved off quite a few years too girls! lol I was born in 1953, but would put 1960 or 1961 on my profile. What helped is I have a killer figure (thin, but curves, 36D) and pretty face thanks to years of intermittant plastic surgery (but nothing below the waist til recently (coolsculpting which I recommend). My plastic surgeon’s nurse says I project youthfulness and look, on a good day, in my 40s still. So, I’ve had a clear advantage. I guess I’m one of the lucky ones, but I think it’s a combo of my personality, a kind of “God glow”/spirituality and looks. Men have always been attracted to me in person. Big time. Sometimes it was flattering and sometimes a problem frankly.
But I am NOT botoxed to death. Everything done with a very subtle hand and keep some “character” wrinkles on my forehand and lower face so as to look REAL. Just no sag, and filler only where I need it (Restylane!) girls…. I am also not obsessed with my appearance, just have the time, money and desire to tweak things when I can, but only every 3-4 years on average. Most of my health is due to the fact I’ve a good diet heavy on fruit and salds, have worn sunscreen since age 25 and been an athlete all my life. Tennis will give you a very firm bosom also I’ve found. Think of the serving action, but I digress.
Like Andrew proposes I also had a profile that clearly showcased my caring, intuitive, sweet side. My good nature, etc. I only threw in a few caveats about players and Bible thumpers (no to both). Otherwise it was almost sugary, my profile. But I also wasn’t shy about broadcasting the fact I was very educated and sophisticated and loved men who were similar. Didn’t make it a requirement though- just said “it would be nice if you were into ideas like me” Or words to that effect.
No, you just have to LIE, pure and simple. ’Cause men are clueless, hypocritical girls…..They live in some fantasy world of their own making which advertising/Hollywood only exacerbates. Look at all the sitcoms which feature the smart, attractive wife but clueless, average-looking hubby. Uh, they married why?
But to return to this thread….On the third date I would usually disclose my age, but there were at least 2-3 men who only knew at the three-month mark or never really were told my true age ’cause I found them too status conscious.
I’ve decided if my bf and I break up (God FORBID as I am very in love with him) I won’t return to online dating but will give celibacy a shot. Dating after, say, 58 or 59 is NOT worth the effort imo. Maybe ’cause finally you are stuck with all these bitter, old, paranoid, hypocritical boomer men. I don’t know…. Am ok with my solitude now. Crave it actually (bf and I have a long distance relationship but only 72 miles). We are only apart about 4 nights before reunited though. And plan to live together at some point in the future. So my dating experience can be best summed up by the old standard “Just in Time”. Listen to the Streisand version circa 1965.
SJZ 9
Why does everybody say they look “younger” and have a “younger” mindset than their age? Maybe we should all be proud of being who we are at whatever age we are. Saying you are so much better than your stated age just shows the prejudice we all carry when it comes to age. I wonder if we will ever accept age as an asset instead of a liability. It would be so nice if we could write a profile saying we look our age. What is wrong with that?
Kathleen 10
Love the post by Ellen !!!!!
You can see her positive personality and confidence shine through. With that encouragement I shall continue to alter my age and for as long as Im on match shall be eternally 48 !!!
Suzanne 11
Your letter rang all my bells!
Yes, the prospects are fewer when you get to your mid-fifties and sixties and it can seem impossible looking at so many prospects in your age range who by an overwhelming majority say they are seeking someone 15-20 plus years younger.
And you know what? I wasn’t ready for the 15-20 years older than me man when I was 35 and certainly not at 57. And although there are more younger women who seem to think that’s what they want, it rarely evolves into a life commitment. And often when it does, it either isn’t what they hoped for and doesn’t bear the fruits of happiness.
I knew what I wanted in companionship and sexuality and simply communicated that as honestly as I could. My fiance and I are the same age and share a similar life path of former long term unhappy marriage, children and grandchildren, values and experience of growing up and traveling through the same decades.
We are both in great shape for our age. He can’t believe he “ended up” with a woman my age…his age. He shopped for younger women because his perception of women his age from his former married circle, was that women in their 50′s were not interested in sex, didn’t maintain themselves, weren’t any fun, weren’t adventurous, etc. I.E. – would be like his former wife.
I can’t really blame him. That did describe an overwhelming majority of the middle aged, suburban women I had hung out with for the twenty plus years I was in the PTA and raising kids. But when my husband left me high and dry I had to recreate myself and make an effort to be fitter, and actually assume an active view of myself as a woman that wants to be attractive for myself and others.
Unfortunately, this really is an exception. I don’t know how to be more honest. Too many women in long term marriages or relationships for that matter, get too comfortable and stop looking at themselves or even they spouse as a person they need to make an effort to maintain. So many men that actually divorce in “middle age” are looking for a younger version – I can’t really blame them.
I divorced a man that over years stopped making an effort in our relationship and pretty much parked me with the kids, chores, duties, etc. even though I worked full time and maintained varied interests and hobbies. We forgot that it all started with “coupledom.” And paid the consequences.
Its been a bit of a bumpy ride in feeling that I had to compete with women younger who may place less demands on the man in their life because regardless of fitness, I can’t achieve the body and skin I had twenty years ago. I could o0nly be the best me I could be. But I have learned that being the best me not only worked with my fiance, but also on younger or older men.
I am happy knowing how hard I worked on the inner and outer me. And that is what ultimately attracts people to you. My fiance is always saying how he is fascinated how much women adore me and his male friends lust for me. Its a very gracious compliment, but I think it means that I learned to love myself, accept my shortcomings and graces, and appreciate every one for who they are without pretext.
You sound like a terrific woman, just keep on doing what you are doing. Your positive attributes will attract someone that will celebrate who you are and feel like the luckiest man on earth!
Misha 12
To Ellen in #8… wow.
Most of us don’t have the means to do plastic surgery. I have an even harder time coming up w/ cashola to kill some spider veins. The fact that you are and were probably more attractive than the “regular butterflies” and managed to keep your figure etc doesn’t bode well for anyone who has actually aged, has some mileage, and can’t afford a new paint job.
It’s rather tragic that a large portion of society paints “older” women into this corner. I don’t know, eating healthy being a healthy weight (ie, not fat, not obese, not morbidly obese) project vim/vigor ie youth are something most of us can do but it’s a LOT of work.
It does make me wonder if the premise of The Beauty Myth is true, as women gain societal power there is more/extreme pressure to be flawless, beautiful eye candy and that is a women’s only worth to a large segment of clueless, not bringing it themselves to the table men. hmmmm.
Then again… maybe since you are vested in your appearance… you may attracting what you are projecting. Seems you’ve had a great ride so I’m not criticizing.
PS i will totally get a neck lift one day and hopefully it will take my boobs with it.
Fiona 13
I don’t think anyone is too old for online dating as such. In my late thirties I am having many of the issues that people in their 50s are complaining about when it comes to men my age. However, the younger women I have been speaking to don’t seem to be finding it too easy to find a partner that way either. The conclusion I have come to is that finding a partner is hard work, whatever age you are, and you have to be prepared for a lot of disappointment along the way.
Daphne 14
Not a good idea to lie about your age in your profile. I never answer an email or write to / favorite anyone if they say in their profile that they’ve changed their age to get more attention.
Katelyn 15
I think the comment I made above is the first time I have commented on Evan’s blog. My son is a regular participant in this blog and suggested I come on and comment on this post because he and I often have conversations about online dating and dating in general, and he thought I might be able to add to the conversation.
I believe in being authentic and that is the kind of man I am looking for, so I am honest in my profile. I am not going to say I look my age when I don’t nor do I want to have to lie about my age to have someone connect to me. If I can’t attract men on line by being myself, I don’t think online dating is for me.
I wonder what Evan thinks about people shaving a number of years off their age?
JB 16
Well being that this discussion is close to my age range. I will admit that at 51 even I still put my age as 3 yrs younger on Match(as I have for years) So I’m “48″ and look it…what ever THAT means. It means when you get to be OUR age what your drivers license says is meaningless. You look as old as people “think” you look. Meaning you could be 53 and look 45 and vice versa. Yes, women in their mid 40′s don’t like men over 50 either…lol go figure. Never the less………my age range for women in my profile says 43-54 and for the most part those ARE the women I email and meet. I think I get rejected equally by both older and younger women. I did meet a 53 yr.old woman last week that looked quite a bit older and more “gaunt” than her 7 current profile pics and that was that. I met a 40 yr old woman who wasn’t as attractive as some 48 yr olds I’ve met etc….. Like I told a date last night. Men in our age range don’t care so much how old you actually ARE as much as how old you actually LOOK. So if you actually do look younger than you are (and I know some that DO!) than shaving 2-4 yrs off isn’t a big deal but trying 7-10 is ridiculous…..lol
Peter 17
Internet profiles are incomplete skeletons of a person that emphasize quantification over qualification. And such an illusion of infinite choice. Yet once over the age of 25 all these people (us) are the detritus who could not form relationships or failed to make them work. Beware, the more attractive the profile, the greater the derangement for even the best have been cast away.
Paula 18
When I was about 28 – 35 I wouldn’t have looked at a guy over 45 – it would have been like going out with my father … And over 60, I wouldn’t even consider them … grandad material and they are really creepy! Ewwww!
Let these deluded guys keep trying to date young girls, mostly it won’t work unless a girl is looking for a daddy substitute, gold digging or whatever other reason she has. It’s their problem not yours.
I see so many men’s profiles on online dating sites who state ‘I look much younger than my age’ only to finally meet them and guess what … no they don’t.
It’s not easy to find a great partner at any age and you do have to keep trying, dont give up althought it can be very tiring and at times demoralising.
I have recently joined a social group and I’m going to sign up for some courses at college that interest me. The social group is great and I get to go out and do things with like minded people who just want to live their lives and get out and do some fun things.
Instead of trying to chase eternal youth and unavailable men/women online, it’s much more satisfying and empowering to be yourself and engage in doing things that really interest you and give you satisfaction.
Make online dating a part of your life and be more selective about who you contact or who contacts you. That ordinary looking man/woman online may just be a great person when you meet them. I tend to avoid the profile pictures of the show ponies these days, after meeting some of them for a coffee, I have walked away trying not to laugh on my way out. Talk about overestimating their so called attractiveness!
Just be yourself, crinkles, wrinkles, crows feet and all. Good looks may catch the eye but if that’s all you’ve got, you don’t have much.
CEG 19
Don’t give up and I would personally not lie about my age. I met my partner on match.com and am very happy. I just turned 57 and he will turn 55 soon. It is true that there are men I corresponded with who looked like Santa Claus to me but wanted to continue to date much younger women. However, I found a number of quality men who wanted to date women their age. One of the problems I saw is that the men are overwhelmed by their number of daily matches (18 per day) vs my typical number (6). If I found someone of interest, I read their profile carefully and e-mailed them a short complimentary note and asked them a question or two. In this way, I was able to catch their attention. Many ignored me but quite a few responded and after a few e-mails we would often meet for coffee or drinks. Another problem is that many men don’t know how to present themselves well. Two of the most generous / interesting men I dated posted only one photo – and not a good one at that! I am sure many women overlooked them for that reason but they wrote well and I decided to e-mail them anyway. I love match.com because I never would have crossed paths with any of these men. I wish everyone well in their search.
nathan 20
Katelyn, the commenter above, is my mother. She has been doing online dating for at least as long as I have, probably longer. Which means a good decade now. I’ve seen her try everything under the sun with paid sites, and a few free sites I introduced her to with no success. Furthermore, she’s spent much of her adult life doing the kind of self growth work that tends to attract a healthy partner. And I know she’s not alone. I have met many Boomer women like her, with similar mixed or very poor experiences with online dating.
I tend to think that Boomer women are at a greater disadvantage than the rest of us for this reason: the majority of Boomer men are still living in the past. By that, I mean that while Boomer women spurred on the social changes of the 1960s and 70s, and have generally tried to live more well rounded lives since, Boomer men are often content to finish out their work lives and then sit in front of a TV, mow the lawn, or hang with their golf buddies on the course until their days are up. I can’t tell you how many hundreds or even thousands of Boomer men profiles I’ve looked at with my mother and two other Boomer friends of mine over the years read like this. Beyond those men, there are another set who are more active and interesting, but who treat dating and relationships today the same way they did 30 or 40 years ago. And I’m not talking about being “traditional” in the way some women on this blog like; I’m talking about being emotionally clueless, patronizing to their dates solely because they are women, and thinking things like giving a swat on the ass on a first date are still acceptable and even welcomed.
I don’t think online dating is a hopeless affair for anyone, but I do think that we need to be more honest about real barriers that different groups face. If Evan’s business targeted older, successful men (read Boomers and early Gen X guys), I doubt he’d be in business at all. Not because they don’t need help – many of them desperately could use some pointers. They just aren’t interested. They’re generally operating under the notion that they know what to do, and failures are pinned on women who “want too much” or “don’t get them.” PUA and Game, which seems to be the most popular form of dating advice for men, tends to attract a Gen X and under crowd. Somehow, I doubt you’d find a ton of 50 and 60 something men sitting behind a Neil Strauss book, or trolling a PUA discussion board. I have plenty of reservations about PUA and Game, but the fact that younger men are seeking advice shows that they realize they need to take a good look at themselves, and do something different. Boomer men aren’t as likely to display this kind of self reflection because they grew up in a world that didn’t expect it, and in fact often discouraged it and so those Boomer men who do have it either went against the grain, or suffered for decades before finally waking up at 55 or 60 – usually following some major health episode.
So, I think the options for many Boomer women are just fewer. The suggestion by a commenter above to try Senior dating sites might be useful, but in general, I think the age and photo driven nature of online dating makes it harder for Boomer women to shine – regardless of what they do. Whatever Sara chooses to do, my only advice is to not take the online world’s response personally. None of us should, but I think it’s especially true for Boomer women, given the hurdles they face.
Jeanne 21
Although I don’t believe in fibbing, I found Ellen’s post so refreshing!
Andrew (Post #2) or any guy, what types of things do you look for in a woman’s profile that show she is offering something instead of making a list of demands?
Christine 22
I empathize with the frustration women have experienced with online dating. I’m 33 and feel like I’m too old for it and have aged out of the system too, after seeing almost all of the men I want overlook me for women in their 20s on these sites (and no, I don’t just hold out for 10s–even the 7s and 8s will go for the 20-somethings as well). I have occasionally considered giving up online dating when I turn 34, since I’ve heard what a nightmare it is for women in the mid-30s (and have seen for myself how the interest is declining with each passing year). However, I might keep at it–but just not take it so personally. Sara has the right idea to “diversify the portfolio” so to speak, with real life encounters. I’ve had relatively more success in real life (and sometimes gotten attention from very good-looking men who I assumed were out of my league and would probably have ignored me on dating sites. But in real life social events, they have approached me because they said how they liked that I was dancing and having fun–which is difficult to capture in a still photo and a few paragraphs).
I concur with Nathan that, unfortunately, online dating prospects are not all equal and older women will have fewer options. But so what? You can’t base your whole sense of self-esteem and self-worth on what some strangers think of your photo. I am realistic enough to know that for the vast majority of men in the online dating world, a 33 year old Asian woman is at the bottom of the desirability scale and in their eyes, I have less cache than a pretty 20-something. However, those overall statistics and group patterns don’t bother me as much as it used to. I don’t want or need to date all of society, but only want and need ONE person to spend my life with. So I motivate myself by saying that like a job, it only takes one. I’d say, just keep at it and don’t close off any medium, but just don’t take it personally at all.
Ruby 23
Nathan #20
Wow, I’m impressed, you’ve nailed it. I’d like to add that many of these older men that my friends and I have encountered have psychological issues that make dating them difficult. Not being over their exes – which many of them are not – is often the least of their troubles. My friends and I have encountered alcoholics, anxiety disorders, depressives, intense commitmentphobia, bipolars, anger issues etc. I’m not saying that women don’t suffer from these problems, but we are much more likely to admit it when we do need help, and to confide in our friends and seek therapy.
Katelyn 24
You are right Ruby, Nathan did nail it!
Many women in their 50′s and 60′s have spent years on personal development, following the advice that if you become what it is you want to attract in a partner you will find that. Women needed to do this work as part of the evolutionary process. Unfortunately men weren’t doing the same thing. I have spent almost 30 years evolving and becoming conscious, much of that alone, which I felt was necessary for me. Now when I am looking for a partner I want someone who has done the same. Someone who I can talk to that speaks my language, someone one who can connect on a spiritual, emotional and intellectual level. I don’t need a partner that connects with me out of some unfulfilled need/wound.
From my personal experience and 26 years of experience as a psychologist I don’t find that many men in their 60′s have done any self exploration, unless like Nathan said it comes as the result of a health crisis.
I am not content to watch the grass grow, watch TV, or be a couch potato nor am I impressed by 60 year old men holding up fish in their dating profile photos, sorry! If you are trying to attract women, fish isn’t going to do it, men.
I am looking for depth in my relationships.
Because of this I find that I am attracted to younger (10 years or so) men because they are more likely to have been doing the personal development and studying consciousness, metaphysics, quantum physics and such, which are some of the things I am interested in.
With on line dating being one of the most popular forms of meeting people because of it’s accessibility many of us opt in. Unfortunately if you think about it, it is very superficial. People decide who someone is based on a few photos and paragraphs often based on looks and age. It doesn’t get more superficial. We are removed from each other just by the nature of the internet and there is no way to pick up the energy/chemistry you find in meeting in person. How can anyone make an informed decision about who they are looking at, and how often might we overlook a special person because we make a decision based on a photo.
Clare 25
I am not anywhere close to 54, but I do know that how other people feel about us and perceive us has a lot, if not everything, to do with how we perceive and feel about ourselves, which I know must be so hard when you are not getting enough positive feedback.
And yet, having faith and believing in your own wonderfulness, *despite* what is going on around you, is the only way to success. As I read in another blog, yes men can be shallow and fickle, and discriminate unfairly on age – these are NOT the right guys for you. Don’t waste your precious energy worrying about them, even if they are in the majority.
I have been recently amazed at how the beliefs I had about myself and how my life was inevitably going to be were holding me back. I have recently committed to having a “the sky’s the limit” approach to all my thinking, and I’ve already seen wonderful improvements, and I just FEEL so much better.
Oh, and Evan… fantastic newsletter today! Just what I needed to read to give me that extra boost. And congratulations on the birth of your little boy
Andrew 26
@Jeanne:
An online friend put this in her profile:
Top 10 reason’s I’ll be your best girlfriend ever:
10 – You can have poker night without complaint (I might want to play sometimes)
9 – You can count on me to trust you without that you wouldn’t be calling me your awesome girlfriend in the first place
8 – You will feel like a knight in shining armor from time to time
7 – You won’t ever wonder if I am judging you
6 – You’ll come to learn I know the difference between sexy, sassy, classy, cute, and hot – not to mention when to be which one
5 – You experience random acts of kindness towards others including you
4 – You’ll be surprised that I can make you think and about more than whether or not my shoes look good with my outfit, or if my butt looks fat.
3 – You’ll hear me celebrating more than complaining, see me smiling more than frowning, and dancing/singing more than sitting silently.
2 – You can expect if I ask you to shop with me it’s only because I’m buying something you know better than me or would want to see
1 – You bet I know how to cure a headache
It’s brilliant. As men are rational and logical creatures regarding dating, a woman should specifically state what she offers in terms of what a man actually wants. A list is not the stuff of romance unicorns and rainbows. But a woman must consider her audience. Logic and reason are masculine qualities and a woman must communicate to such an audience with her profile.
Bottom line: The feminine attracts the masculine.
Katelyn 27
I totally agree with you Clare, there is someone out there for everyone and we can’t base our value on the feedback or lack of feedback we get, especially on line. It has nothing to do with us or our worth if someone doesn’t respond to our attempts to connect.
I know there is a fabulous partner for me, just like there is for everyone else, and I am not willing to settle. The more we embrace our fabulousness the more likely we are to attract a fabulous partner. It doesn’t matter how old you are, just be real and authentic and that is what you will find coming into your life.
I personally think it is less likely on line than it is through personal encounters.
JB 28
@Katelyn “People decide who someone is based on a few photos and paragraphs often based on looks and age”
You forgot the real things men get disqualified for. Height, education, income, and of course job title which women rarely if ever get disqualified by men for….lol Just sayin..
I find it hilarious that the 30 somethings above me think that they’re too old for online dating just because the ”best” guys their own age ignore them…..lol what they don’t tell you is about the guys that DO email them that THEY ignore for any one of the reasons I’ve outlined above. I hear this from women all the time “you should see the guys that email me” and they roll their eyes. What they don’t understand is I’m THAT guy to the 90% of women that ignore ME!!
All I can say to the women above is try being an average guy online for a few weeks and see how much fun that ISN’T.
Joe 29
As far as shaving a few years off your age, think: how would you be disposed towards a man after meeting him and discovering he’d added a few inches to his height online but hadn’t mentioned this in his profile text?
@ nathan #20: If PUA/Game theory didn’t work on women better than the “traditional” ways of wooing them, would guys use Game? Would you say the typical guy using those methods is really looking for commitment, or just some action? I guess what I’m trying to ask is this: younger men may feel the need to get advice, but…women say they don’t want guys who are PUAs, yet the PUA advice does seem to work on them. Is it therefore beneficial to women for these guys to be getting PUA advice?
Michelle 30
I think Nathan is right on, thanks for your comments and pointing out the ‘problem’ isn’t on line dating, it’s men in this age range in general. I’ve stopped on line dating, and I just got done dating a man who I met in real life and turned 60 (I’m 48). I asked him two different times what he thought his role was in the demise of his marriage–he couldn’t answer either time, he turned it around to his wife and her issues. Perfect example, no self reflection over the past 10+ years of being divorced. (BTW, emotionally clueless as well).
I’m confident there are men out there that have done some reflection at the very least, and are ‘normal’ enough to sustain a satisfying relationship.
Mark 31
I put my age range is 35-55.
Of course my pics suck so I’m not getting much traffic.
But I’ve gotten many compliments on my profile.
I find that the women in my age range know what they’re looking for and have their shit together.
That’s a turn on.
Mark 32
P.S. Ladies – I’m 51 and have done MUCH self reflection after ea. relationship/marriage. (Been there 2x).
I’m always trying to figure out what she did wrong!
haha just kidding. What I did to contribute to the failure of the relationship.
I’m learning and always trying to improve myself because that way not only will my future partner be happier, I’ll be happier too.
Julia 33
@JB as one of the young women on here-you are right that 90% of the guys are like you. You stated above that you are 53 but lie and say your are 48…then you email girls like me, early 30s and expect a response. My dad is 54, do you think dating a man your age is appropriate for a young woman like me?
Ruby 34
Joe #29
“As far as shaving a few years off your age, think: how would you be disposed towards a man after meeting him and discovering he’d added a few inches to his height online but hadn’t mentioned this in his profile text?”
Shaving a few years off one’s age doesn’t alter one’s appearance. Of course, people should always use recent photos in their profiles, although many don’t.
And isn’t the PU/Game theory targeted to work on younger, less experienced women?
Kathleen 35
Joe
I don’t think its a big deal shaving off a few years. I spend a couple of hours a week canoeing, as well as a couple of hours each in yoga and spinning classes a week because its fun and feels good..
Im in better shape than 90% of the guys Ive met, who were looking for younger women by 10-20 years. None of these guys have complained about my age when Ive disclosed it.
Most all guys I personally know are online saying they are 10 years younger to try to get younger women. Since I know many guys add to their height I make sure I emphasize up front that Im 6 feet in heels
Like Ellen Im going to do what I can reasonably get away with and do whats effective. I’m going to flaunt what I still have since I don’t thing most of these guys are having that much luck with their “ideal wish list”
Ellen 36
Michelle @30: totally agree. Men would rather watch college football week after week than spend even 10 minutes reflecting upon the demise of their marriages. lol
Nathan is SPOT ON about boomer men, though I’ve met a few who were mature emotionally, reflective. A few who were respectful and not obviously old school or condescending. However, Andrew!, I totally disagree with: “Logic and reason are masculine qualities and a woman must communicate to such an audience with her profile.” I’ve met PLENTY of illogical men, plenty.
I want to add that I agree with a poster who said women in this society are expected to be merely eye candy often, even though we supposedly won some kind of sexual revolution in the ’60s and ’70s (which the Republican Party is trying to derail as we speak). It sickens me how this dated bu*lsh*t hangs on. I mainly want to grab young women who dress like hookers and ask them why they feel the need to do this.
I also know about Naomi Wolf and have been meaning to read her. Despite my obvious femininity I guess, I consider myself a feminist and have told several dates that I AM a feminist.
Also, just because I lied about my age doesn’t mean I am a bad person or prone to dishonesty. I would rate myself as fairly scrupulously honest given my spiritual beliefs which come closest to Buddhism I guess. I just saw the handwriting on the wall early…..
But I have become so “conditioned” about how men view age that even six months into my current relationship I would remain mum on any physical complaints. To be honest, I never had many aches and pains much til I turned 59 last February. Since then I’ve had a bout with arthritis in my left thumb and a recurrence of some spinal issues which seem to have abated. For a while this summer I moved like an old woman often and that has humbled me quite a bit folks. So while I look nice, believe me, on the structural level anyway I am completely 59! lol
But like sexism, I think we need, as a society, to rethink age. Clearly some people, whether its a combo of genes, diet, or outlook, are aging at a slower rate than others. Cell telemeres are key also (cell division)….Also, sometimes a person’s psychic energy is just incredible and they run around like a young adult 24/7. They have true joie de vivre.
Finally, if you go this route- plastic surgery and diet and the gym- know that even that is not enough and you need to explore bioidentical hormones at some point (both me and my current bf use them, get our blood tested, etc.). The number of men using supplemental testosterone has exploded and saavy women (imo) are exploring bioidentical hormones (NOT Prempro and that horse cra*) AND testosterone as a way to slow aging. Not all women can take supplemental estrogen though…..But that’s another topic for another day.
nathan 37
“Would you say the typical guy using those methods is really looking for commitment, or just some action? I guess what I’m trying to ask is this: younger men may feel the need to get advice, but…women say they don’t want guys who are PUAs, yet the PUA advice does seem to work on them. ”
Joe, from what I have seen, PUA seems to attract a variety of men. Some are clearly interested in just sex. Some don’t know what they want. While others genuinely want a relationship, and use PUA, Game, and similar approaches primarily to increase their confidence.
As for this discordance between women saying they dislike PUA, and yet it actually working – I don’t know. How much of the “working” is about being a man who is confident in himself, and how much of it is the actual tactics and approaches?
Karmic Equation 38
@Nathan
I’m not a man, but I can say that the confidence and the PUA tactics and approaches have to be complementary to the man.
I’ve had a 29 yo brazenly lie about his wealth and skilz to try to pick me up. But I don’t think he took any PUA classes. LOL. He didn’t succeed.
My current reformed-playah bf, I’d say, he possibly could have taken classes or maybe read up on some PUA tactics. He used lines and tactics that work for his looks and style. And he played me in stages and I let him chase me until I caught him
Anyway, I think it’s ok for men to use whatever tactics they need to approach and attract women. It’s no different than a woman dressing super sexy or wearing nice perfume to attract men. Looks and smell attract men. Words and actions attract women. Level playing field, imo.
Michelle 39
@Mark, see, there is hope!! And you’re a Boomer :)
Karmic Equation 40
@Ellen
Loved your post #8. Go get ‘em girl!
Maybe a few disagreements with your post #36.
“I mainly want to grab young women who dress like hookers and ask them why they feel the need to do this.”
I think this is showing your age, Ellen. LOL… Dressy hot is actually a good thing. GOOD MEN as well as bad men are attracted to hot women. If you dress like a wall flower, you may limit your pool of men to “filter” from. Read this. I really think it’s on the money. Now if the girls are ACTING like hookers as well as dressing like them, well, they hurt no one but themselves as they’re self-limiting their LTR-ness in good men’s eyes. The playahs and jerks will still be after them, but the good men will probably stay away (there was a blog post about this, but I can’t remember where I read it).
“Despite my obvious femininity I guess, I consider myself a feminist and have told several dates that I AM a feminist.”
Because you believe in female power, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a feminist. Do you get insulted when a man holds the door open for you? Do you insist on paying on dates? I used to think I was a feminist until I realized I like men holding doors for me and treating me like a woman. I’m far from fragile or needing a daddy-figure, but I love the *good intentions* behind chivalry. If you love chivalry, you’re not a feminist, just a woman who believes in the power of being a woman.
Just promise me one thing, don’t be the 63 yo who tries to pick up 30 yo’s. A 63 yo woman (killer bod for her age, but her face showed her age, due to smoking) — tried to pick up my bf. She was a catch for the 55+ and over, maybe even 50+, but trying to pick up someone 30 years her junior was, how can I say, sad and icky to observe. No dignity in that.
Keep on keeping on!
JB 41
@Julia #33 Show me where I said I email anyone under my age range of 43-54? I don’t and never do. I had a couple of dates with a 40 yr.old and SHE winked at me first. I don’t email 35 yr.olds and I certainly wouldn’t expect a response. I’ve been on this blog for years….lol
I don’t and never have emailed any women as young as you or young enough to be my daughter. I’m smarter than that and I’m not interested in them. My ex girlfriend was 3 yrs older than me btw. I want a woman in my range 43-54 and I don’t think that’s crazy. Preferably old enough to have kids that don’t need baby sitters!!!
Kathleen 42
Karmic Equation
Im not sure what your age is but the word “Feminism” is misunderstood by women who don’t remember times when women had fewer rights If you read the history of feminism it had nothing to do with women objecting to having doors opened by men. I remember jobs being advertised as for men only and my mother couldn’t get those jobs Even today women earn less for the same job.
I didn’t catch the reference that Ellen made against women looking hot and attractive. I think you may have misunderstood that
Ellen another GREAT post Love it!!!
Still-Looking 43
Julia @ 33 -
I’m a 50 year old man and met a wonderful 32 y.o. lady this past weekend. I didn’t hit on her – she approached me and we had a wonderful evening and met again two days later. Yes I am old enough to be her father but that obviously didn’t bother her.
I think some women do find older men “icky” just as I’m sure some men find it distasteful to be approached by women 20-30 years older than them.
I date a very wide range of women and I find age to be just another factor. I’m not nearly as concerned with a woman’s biological age as much as I’m concerned about whether our personalities mesh. I certainly haven’t conducted any scientific studies on the issue but do find, generally speaking, that women 10 -15 years younger are much more fun, carefree, less critical, and less inclined to be pushing for a committed relationship after one or two dates.
Tom10 44
I find the debate correlating one’s dating age with one’s self-esteem fascinating.
Christine 22
“I’m 33 and feel like I’m too old for it…after seeing almost all of the men I want overlook me for women in their 20s”
This reminds me of when I was about 14 to 19 years old. Like many (most?) young men I really struggled with women to the point of desperation, even depression. I was constantly perplexed as to the calibre of men my contemporaries chased, whilst considering nice, quiet boys (like me) as just friends. Now that I’m 29 young women approach me all the time, much to the chagrin of their male counterparts I’m sure. In retrospect I realise it was not the fault of these girls, it’s just, well, the way it is.
The same applies to these men – it’s not really their fault why they want what they want; it’s just life.
Joe, Nathan and Karmic re PUA
“How much of the “working” is about being a man who is confident in himself, and how much of it is the actual tactics and approaches?
It is obviously impossible to quantify how effectual “game theory” is, as each practitioner is inherently different with varied characteristics so we have no way to isolate the variables. However, I agree with Joe as I (without meaning to sound crass) can personally vouch for the effectiveness of ‘tactics’. As someone who always craved lots of sex, I had to learn the skills (independent of Strauss) to get some, much like one learns Italian or the guitar, i.e. through rigorous analysis and careful practice. The trick is to imply a sense of connection and consequently allow a woman make her own set of inferences; i.e. women create the illusion of a great guy themselves! Maybe the guy is great, but he’s generally just after one thing. A poor PUA will lie or brag, as lies can easily be caught out and bragging is uncouth.
For some reason (game), women always assume I’m innocent, deep and contemplative, whereas I’m actually shallow and fickle, and I know exactly what I’m doing.
Ellen
“Despite my obvious femininity…I consider myself a feminist and have told several dates that I AM a feminist”
That’s perfectly ok; I consider myself a feminist too as I fully support the advocacy of women’s rights in relation to equality with men.
Nicole 45
@SJZ, you could make a drinking game out of the number of people who think they look 10 years younger than their age but think all of their peers are old farts. Maybe all of these 50 somethings who think they pass for 35 should start their own dating website.
Nothing can really mimic youth, esp. not next to actual youth. I go to fitness class with loads of people who have a couple of decades on me, and who can literally run circles around me, but they do NOT look the same age or younger than me. I think that whole “I look X” only works when people who arent’ that age aren’t around, or it’s just insincere flattery given to you by people who are your friends who want to butter you up as they hit on you.
I think I look my age. If you are my age and don’t look the same as me, I don’t think it is proof of anything except that we aren’t the same person.
And it’s kind of a bullwhip effect really, b/c if 45 years olds claim to look 35, then they’ll say the 35 year olds don’t look their age either, or else they have to admit that they are a bit deluded.
K 46
@nicole I was thinking the same thing. Every single person on here (or really any blog) thinks they look good for their age or younger. Coincidence? Are all the people who look their age or old for their age silent? Most people think they look above average which isn’t possible. I think if you look great for 50 then blow all the other average 50 year olds out of the water, rather than change your age to 40 (and compete with 40 year olds who apparently look 30). People always say I look 10 years younger, even women who are 10 years younger. But like you said, when I was that age peoole thought I was even much younger. I think when I was younger I thought 30 year olds and 60 year olds looked old. As time goes by you realize those ages are not old. If one more person post how they look wat younger I will lose it (or get a chuckle). You likely choose to compare yourself to people who don’t look good for their age or your idea of 40/50/6 was from another generation when people weren’t as active.
Mia 47
As cynical as I can get about dating,I am absolutely amazed at the cynicism so many women here are displaying about age. If you’re attractive no one gives a shit. if you’re average, or pudgy, it doesn’t matter if you’re 23. And given how many old or weird or unattractive people I see out there every day with a guy, none of those things will stop you from finding love. Young pretty girls have it rougher bc guys are more likely to see us as objects or string us along. Who is going to string along some old lady? A fifty some woman will get less dates but those who do ask her out will actually do so because they want to be with her, as she has no superficial qualities to distract.
Nicole 48
@K, so true. I think that the WORST judges of age are people who aren’t your peers. If you ask a 24 year old if you “look 40″ their answer is not anything to put faith in, b/c they think 40 is like 100. I’ve had that experience with young 20-somethings, and I just said, you should not be impressed that I’m in my 30′s and have all of my teeth (that’s not what she said but it was something along the lines of, oh wow, you look good for your age as if I was a senior citizen).
Also, a LOT of people think that having a small dress size makes them look young. It doesn’t, b/c I personally associate frailty with old people.
And I think they need to start checking IDs at H&M and Forever 21 b/c a lot of these “I work out 7 days a week” 50 year olds just need to stop shopping in juniors just b/c they can wear those sizes. Again, so many things signify your age that have nothing to do with how small your jeans are or or how many miles you can run, although I take my hat off to the many people who are old enough to be my parents who like I said, can beat me in a footrace and run like 10 times as far as me. Why aren’t they happy with that? Why keep dressing like Miley Cyrus?
One of my friends actually started a Happy Hour group to try to combat the number of groups we go to that have an age cap yet are overrun by these 50 year olds who think they are the young looking ones. My friend half jokingly asked everyone, “are you in your 30′s b/c we are checking IDs”…so far, so good. And the 30 somethings, male and female, are pretty psyched to not have to deal with getting hit on by people 20 years older than them. clearly, everyone’s individual dating preferences are flexible, but we’ve enjoyed socializing with our true peers, and not our imagined ones…
henriette 49
I’m a bit taken aback by how many people admit to lying about their age. I don’t like men who lie. Period. And if someone lies on his profile, it makes me believe that he is insecure, that he will probably tell me what he thinks I wish to hear about other subjects in the future and that he has a chip on his shoulder about women his own age. *shudder*
I see that Evan and his wife are busy caring for their newborn son – CONGRATULATIONS! – but I hope that when he returns here in 2 weeks, Evan will comment on the subject of lying about one’s age.
marymary 50
Still
It flips the other way. I hear younger men say they prefer older women for exactly the same reason that you prefer younger women. Younger men believe (erroneously i think) that older women are not looking for long term or marriage. How could we be. WE’RE ALMOST DEAD!
I personally barely give a **** how old someone is though I do draw the line at the 18yo who’s had a crush on me for three years. I know his mother (not the only reason, I jest). I’ve sparked with men in their eighties but they were married. I guess there are practical difficulties but I’ve seen up close and personal where the younger partner is the one who died first, or who got sick, and it’s the older one who ended up alone, or the carer. it’s not the norm but none of is the norm. The norm is a construct. We are all exceptional.
I think we are less age – obsessed in the UK but we are catching up I fear. I don’t care how anyone else chooses to dress, or have their hair, or what their body shape is. I mean, my God, don’t we have better things to think about.
We could all stand to be kinder. We’ll all be old one day unless we die first. These people we all are laughing at. That will be us. It’s your mother, your grandfather, your great aunt. No-one chooses to get old. Compassion people!
I see all sorts in relationships, beautiful, not so beautiful, tall, fat, thin, old, badly dressed, stylish, smart, not smart, educated, fit. rich poor. Those things ultimately aren’t what make it work. it’s the heart, integrity, character, hope, faith of a person. That comes in all packages and all age groups. And before we atart saying he or she must be x,y,z we have to be those things ourselves.
like attracts like. If your partners are (like mine used to be), shallow, flaky, emotionally unavailable, incapable of love, abusive, obsessed with appearance/age/status/sex, whatever, look at yourself. It ain’t pretty but that’s where change begins.
No. you’re not too old. Whoever you are.
marymary 51
Mia
Women in their 50s get mistreated by men too. Women older than that get strung along too. Young attractive women are not the worst off in the dating pool. That’s just ridiculous.
I think you need to stop blaming society, your age, and your looks, and what you perceive men to be like.
You are carrying a whole baggage of negative beliefs with you. You need to look at where that came from. Go back, back, way back to the beginning.
I was subjected to physical abuse, emotional abuse and neglect as a child. My counsellor said it was one of the worst cases he had ever heard. It was no wonder that I couldn’t form relationships as an adult. I, too, thought it might have something to do with my beauty. But, ultimately, I did not know what love was, how to give it, how to receive it. So, one jacked up relationship after another.
I’m not saying it’s the same for you, that’s just my story. But no way are your relationship woes down to you being pretty.
Ellen 52
Mia #47: Evan has a whole post entirely devoted to the beautiful woman and how she is objectified and hotly pursued. Men just want to lay her. I.e., the beautiful woman, unless she is saavy and very careful, will be hounded by many men who just want to be able to say they scored with one.
I really don’t think women feel that way about super handsome men….. Groupies are a whole other category though.
TomT #10: That’s my number one complaint with men- that they are fickle and shallow. With age and changing hormones, men can become more reflective and learn what truly matters in life and cherish it. Too many just neglect their inner world/spirituality. From what I’ve seen most men don’t mellow and get truly sentimental til their fifties. They just need to feel their mortality a little, and then suddenly they prize their wives more. My Dad was like that.
Re age- I don’t see my age group acting like asses here. Maybe it’s a big city thing, not sure. I know older men will hit on younger girls sometimes to everyone’s discomfort probably. About the only thing I do that isn’t age appropriate is wear a miniskirt every once in a while, but I think (and ask those younger for their opinions) I can still carry it off. But read the other day even Jerry Hall, Jagger’s ex, won’t wear minis anymore ’cause she doesn’t think she has the legs for it. lol
But what I feel is missing with Gen Xers and the Millenials is any sense of respecting the mature man or woman. Of wanting to tap that wisdom. I think true respect for those older stopped with my generation (boomer). In my teens and early 20s most of my most influential friends were women 4-8 years older. I listened to them and learned a LOT. I just don’t see much of that anymore- everyone is too buried in their peer/race/political groups from what I’ve seen.
Katelyn 53
I am surprised that someone is upset because people think they look younger, so what? It doesn’t do any harm to anyone if you think you look younger than your age. And it is possible that thinking that way actually can make someone more youthful.
I was one of those people earlier who said I look younger than my 61 years. I was at a live match event last night which was very interesting. All of the men who I spoke with or interacted with were in their early 50′s and they told me, they thought I was 50. I didn’t ask them how old they thought I was because it is a question I don’t find necessary. One man, who was a personal trainer and competitive body builder and I spent a long time talking. Somewhere in the conversation he said “do you mind if I ask your age” I said, “I am 61″. He was 53. He stared at me with his mouth open for several minutes( yes the classic jaw drop) and finally said he couldn’t believe it because he thought I was 50. I heard repeatedly through out the rest of our long conversation, how he couldn’t believe I was 61.
What I learn from this experience and from questions I asked about why men don’t even search in the 60 and over age range for women on match, affirmed that it might not be the best venue for me to find someone.
I was told that many men are responding to stereotypical thinking, that a women in her 60′s is , like MaryMary said, are almost dead. We have to be boring, have no energy and no interest in sex. One man felt that even if I email someone, in their 50′s, when they see my age, they might not even look at my profile.
I don’t think those issues are limited to people in their 60′s and in fact it is a sign that someone is not taking care of themselves, physical, emotional and spiritual, that causes aging, lack of sex drive and loss of interest in life. It can happen at any age.
I wonder what some of the other men on this thread think about what I was told about how men navigate singles sites, especially the men in their 50′s who are on Match or other singles sites.
Fiona 54
On the topic of lying about ages, I met an ex boyfriend at 33 when he was 25. He told me he was 27 and I believed him. I didn’t find out the truth until a few months later by which time I was head over heels. However, had I known the truth from the start, I would not have dated him as I already felt that a 6 year age gap was big. He lied because he thought I wouldn’t date him if I knew he was 25 but that was my prerogative. The consequences of all of this: at 35 when I was wanting to settle down and have a family, he at 27 was looking at a career change. A whole lot of pain and heartache (for me) could have been avoided by him telling the truth in the first place and leaving me free at 33 to find someone who wanted what I wanted instead of him lying about his age at first and later about his desire to marry me and have a family with me all of which kept me hanging on for longer than I should. At 37, now past the heartache of the break up, I have to deal with the heartache of being childless. In short, lying about age is unfair on the other person and I wouldn’t do it. If I told men I was 35 they would probably believe me but that would give a false and unfair impression of my fertility. I’d rather someone just accepted me as I am with the risks involved than trick them.
Cat 55
@Fiona – so sorry for your heartbreak. It sounds like he lied about more than just his age unfortunately. I think lying about the other things were more detrimental though in the long run..had he only lied about his age first & not about wanting to marry you & have a family, it might have still worked. You still have time to have children. Totally unfair he set you back a few years with his lying, but everything happens for a reason & the right one will come along! Keep the faith!
Kathleen 56
I agree with Mia in that if you are attractive no one gives a shit.
I just got a message this morning from a 40 year old who when I told him I was 53 basically said the same thing.
I never claim to look 40 , 45 , 50 … I do that best with what Ive got to look like an attractive physical sexual woman while looking elegant.
I agree with Ellen that older peoples wisdom is not recognized these days I would have benefited greatly by an older woman mentor when I was in my 20s or 30s.
As a health care professional I had the opportunity to talk at length with a few very old people who were an unassuming wealth of knowledge. I never had much access to my grandparents and perhaps these days this is common and so older people are seen as having no value.
Joe 57
If being childless is such heartache, there are ways to have children that don’t involve getting married…
nathan 58
Fiona 54- you stayed with him almost 2 years after finding out he was two year younger than he had first stated. I don’t know how you can blame the age change for what you experienced. He could have easily wanted a career change at 29 for the same reasons, and you could easily date someone for a year or two at any age and find out you don’t want the same things. Happens all the time.
I don’t advocate lying about your age, and haven’t done it myself. But the idea that leaving a year or two off your age in either direction is some kind of terrible action is absurd. Age and maturity level are only somewhat correlated. And even with something like fertility, the difference between 35 and 37 is fairly minimal. In both cases, that window is moving towards a close, that’s all. The 35 year old might have a shorter window if other conditions aren’t optimal, while the 37 year old might have a longer window if she’s in excellent health and has a supportive genetic history.
People get fixated on numbers, but the true picture is much more complicated than that. You could still be with this man and also be childless because of infertility, short term health conditions, or any number of other reasons. My point being that while age isn’t a completely arbitrary marker, it doesn’t really give anyone nearly enough information to make accurate judgments about someone.
And thus you have all these quandaries about online dating. Because one of the main cut off frames is a very specific age criteria. Something that doesn’t happen when you meet someone in person. Not at first anyway. Your attraction or lack of attraction has nothing to do with the specific number. You have a ballpark figure in mind – this person is around my age – and that’s about it. There’s really nothing magical about turning 50 or turning 60, but to the computer generating lists of matches, those numbers make all the difference.
JB 59
Katelyn is right. I personally know a 62 yr.old woman who’s a friend of mines ex girl friend and she could easily pass for 49 or 50. She doesn’t do online dating, but let’s be realistic most men or woman aren’t in the shaving 7-10 yrs off category and are able to get away with it.
For the record above ^^^^ I’m 51 and only shave off 3 yrs in my profile maikng me 48. It’s really not about the 3 yrs which I’ll never change. At this point for me it’s more about WOMEN’S perception of men ”over & under 50″ that I’m dealing with more than my own insecurity. I happily email women my own age but I also get winks and emails from 56-58 yr.old women that aren’t even feminine or youthful looking and I think to myself “really”?….LOL When I turn 53 which will make me 50 online it will stay 50!
Karmic Equation 60
Fiona,
I really like your posts and I feel for you on this. He was certainly wrong in lying to you and keeping you hanging, but you can’t be blameless as you ALWAYS had the power to walk away once you knew his age, head over heels or not. I know, this is easier said than done. But that’s the problem with us women…We don’t want to walk away because it would hurt us…and the guy wants to keep every thing the way it is because changing the status quo would hurt him. When you look at it this way, who really had the power? If you walked away, he would not have been able to keep the status quo.
So when you hung in there, you ceded him the power to keep the relationship as the status quo. Having power and not exercising it (because it’s going to hurt) – is just as bad, if not worse, than biting the bullet and moving on in spite of the hurt. In the former you feel like a victim, in the latter you feel empowered. In both you are bound to be saddened.
I wish you the best. My observations about isn’t meant to hurt. I just think we need to recognize the power we have and take responsibility SO THAT we know that our relationship-happiness is within our own control, and does not belong to any man. We just have to recognize, our power is to WALK AWAY. Not a great super power. But it is our power in a relationship.
K 61
Not upset that people think they look younger. Just think it’s interesting the abundance of people who think they don’t look their age. I just think we had an idea that our current age looked older when we were younger. Rarely is anyone saying I look my age (with a recent exception) or worse than my age.
I don’t think lying about a few years is an awful crime, I just don’t like it or agree with it. I realized a recent date was lying by a few years (because I can do math when he talked about things that didn’t add up). It just was awkward. If you think you look great for your age or your maturity doesn’t add up then put that in your profile. If I think you look great and read that somewhere maybe I would take it into consideration, better that doubting all the other claims you make on your date.
Nicole 62
@Katelyn,
If you want to see “upset” then visit the post about curvy women. There are men who get super angry about women using the term curvy when they feel the people in question have no right to.
I personally don’t know why they care about that, but one thing is subjective and one thing is a fact. Ask men of different backgrounds, ages, ethnicities, and races to describe curvy and you will get a LOT of different answers. Yet the men posting on that article are full of rage.
I don’t know how lying advances anyone’s cause. At least not in any sustainable way. I’ve seen men who lie about their age in their summary, then explain the lie in their profile. I’ve seen men who do the same things about marital status or education. It might make you turn up in more searches but you are taking the chance that people won’t appreciate the lie. And sorry, it’s internet dating so people do treat it like a Costco for humans and will be really picky about certain things b/c there is the illusion of an endless supply.
The whole issue of “looking your age” is like so many other things. Stereotypes. But again, the men saying that to you aren’t your age and they probably think they still look 40. That doesn’t mean you don’t look great. It just means that it’s a very inaccurate way to describe people. Why not say, you look nice/pretty. It kind of doesn’t matter unless they need a woman to bear children for them.
And perhaps it’s easier for you to take it as a compliment but I’ve gotten the same kind of “comments” as it pertains of women of my race, and in that context it is is disgusting, so maybe that’s why it turns me off in general. What my mom and her sister’s looked/look like in their 40′s, 50′s, and 60′s is not what their mom looked like. But let’s see, they had more money, way fewer children, and easier lives in general. I still think they LOOK their age. They just look their age the way that people do in the 21st century. And it’s totally true that 50-60 years ago, women their age looked entirely different. Most 60 year old women don’t look like Grandma Moses, even if they don’t have botox, dyed hair, plastic surgery, and clothes from H&M.
I see a lot of women that I’d say are very attractive but don’t look young to my 30 something eyes. That’s all I’m saying.
And it becomes comical b/c of how many people on this blog and on dating sites insist that they are the magical unicorn who has defied Father Time. I just can’t imagine every saying that. It sounds so silly. So if you’ve been lurking here long enough that’s why you’d have to know that every time I read it, I roll my eyes. My college alumni magazine used to have singles ads, and all of these older women would describe themselves as Susan Sarandon, Sharon Stone, or Raquel Welch lookalikes. One man from their “era” finally wrote this hilarious letter asking where all of these pin-up girls were when he was in college, b/c he didn’t see anyone who looked like they were going to turn into any of those women.
Ellen 63
Katelyn #53- yes, it’s true- too many older people feel they look/act younger than their age. Most are in denial, it’s true, but like you said, what’s so wrong with thinking you are the exception? Maybe it will bolster your self esteem. I would caution men from putting it on their profile ’cause I’ve met too many who clearly weren’t young looking for their age. It reeks of slight desperation. I never put it on mine, but let my photos do the talking….
Before dating, btw, I always readily offered up my age to anyone (wasn’t coy like so many). At work though I didn’t tell too many ’cause, again, in most workplaces you just ARENT respected for your age usually. However, turning 40 or 50 was no big deal to me also. To this day I am very proud of my age, oh so glad I was raised in the sixties/seventies when times were simpler….
PS What happened to you at that event where men in their early 50s thought you were a peer happens to me all the time. Has happened for a good many years also. I am not one of those in denial but I know my days are numbered…..just so glad I found my bf when I did (and here’s a shout out to Evan for giving me the psychological tools to let my bf “chase me til I caught him”). Now I can drop the pretense! lol btw, lately my bf and I trade war stories about back/hip pains. I used to kick like a Rockette though!
Jennifer 64
#54 Fiona
Very sorry to hear about your ex, but take heart- being 37 does *not* mean getting married and having kids is impossible. Try not to get down about it.
I totally get why you didn’t leave your boyfriend after you found out his age- I have actually been in the same situation. But now, especially depending on how the truth of his age came to light, I wouldn’t stay. Why? Because of what his lying to me tells me about him.
If he *knew* i wouldn’t want to date him if he was X age, so he told me he was X-2, then what he’s saying is that his desire (to date me) trumps my desire (to not date someone who is X). How is that cool? And who died and made him God? He doesn’t have to agree with my desire, but that doesn’t mean he gets to disrespect it. In a relationship I doubt my boyfriend will always agree with the reason I do/don’t want to do something- so if he doesn’t is he then entitled to lie to get his way? I don’t want to be with someone that thinks they are. And maybe he shouldn’t be with someone whose opinions and thought process he has so little respect for anyway…
On the surface it seems like such a small thing, but to me it speaks volumes about what kind of person he is. And that’s not to be ignored.
Fiona 65
Nathan, I blame the “lying” for what happened more than the age but I nevertheless would not have dated a 25 year old at that time because I would have seen 8 years as too big a difference and a 25 year old as too high risk for me at 33. He admitted that he sensed that which is why he lied in the first place. I am not going to lie to anyone about my age – the difference between 35 and 37 is that the 37 year old is under more pressure.
Karmic Equation, you are right – in hindsight it all started with a lie and I should have walked away when the first lie was exposed. At the time I thought it was just a little white lie. Really I should have seen him then for what he was – someone who lies to get what he wants.
Nicole 66
But back to the original topic. Isn’t the answer, no, you are never TOO old but just like anything else, you won’t get as many views precisely b/c so many people have on blinders when it comes to their peers.
I personally don’t profiles that are a)full of bragging or b)full of demands. I’ve noticed that a lot of the people that think they are extra special feel comfortable getting kind of nasty about who they expect to contact them and who had better not dare.
I might prefer different things but I don’t see how it would make me appealing to anyone to say “and if you are some old man who wants a woman under 40, you’d better not contact me b/c I have a dad.” Or, “If you contact me, you’d better look 10 years younger than you are b/c I know I do and I work out 7x a week.” How is either of those things attractive?
I mean, I will still READ the profile of someone who might not have the handful of things I consider to be REALLY important. I’m not going to go off saying “who does he think he is” except when I get vulgar messages, and even then, it’s not a reason to turn my profile into a big rant.
Fiona 67
Jennifer you are totally right. I have learned my lesson. Honesty and integrity are essential qualities whether on-line or in real life.
Julia 68
Another lie I see a lot is the “doesn’t have kids” things then they describe how they can’t live without their children. I’m not sure if women also do this but I see a lot of men in their late 30s who do.
Christine 69
Nicole@66, you hit the nail on the head that people can have blinders on, so you don’t get as many views. People will like what they like, no matter what. I’ve learned to recognize that that challenge will exist but also not take it too personally either.
Mia, if you don’t mind my asking, how old are you? I thought you said before you’re in your 20s. I used to think the same thing, until I reached my 30s and I experienced it for myself. Right or wrong, many men really do deem women less desirable at 30+ regardless of their packaging or how they look (mostly because they assume that older women will strangle them into marriage and kids from date 1, or assume more baggage). However, I have found it’s mostly an online thing, when they have 20-something women at their fingertips (or at least, have the perception that they do). It really is different when, in person, you lead off with different characteristics and don’t lead off with your “numbers” as you do with online dating. So I’d still suggest that women 30+ not give up their online dating subscriptions, but just not rely on it too much either.
K 70
@christine great view and advice. After a recent guy I dated poof’d and then lowered his age bracket it definitely was hard to see. But you are right online is one option and people in real life rarely care.
Gina 71
It’s definitely harder to find a quality partner the older you get. I’m 50, and am told by some men that I am attractive and have a bubbly personality. Being African American helps as I am aging well. As far a meeting that special someone goes, I have moved away from online dating in favor of meeting men the old fashioned way—in person. No one special has caught my eye, or I theirs, but I am enjoying living the single life and engaging in fun activities that uplift me and bring me joy. If I meet someone in the process, that would be icing on the cake. If not, I will keep on living life to the fullest and doing things that make me happy.
Evan Marc Katz 72
Thanks to the two of you (Claire #25 and Henriette #49) who congratulated me on the birth of my son.
Katarina 73
@Mark,
I am 45 and my age range is 40 – 50. Next year the range will bump up a year. If I received a note from you and saw that your range is 35-55, no matter how great your profile is, I would ignore it. You being 51 and looking at 35, creeps me out. Please don’t take offense. Now if your range was about 45 – 55, I would have no problem with that. And if you wrote a thoughtful note, citing you know you are out of my listed range, I would write back. One of the men I am seeing did just that, and he is 52! BUT, his age range was reasonable!
On another note, I have ignored countless men because they list an age range that is below their own age. For example, he’s 50 and looking for 33-45. No thank you. If you can’t deal with your own age group, then there are some issues.
Secondly, on the lying discussion.. a lie, is a lie, is a lie.
I had dinner with a man that listed his height as 5’8″ – I am 5’7″ – I gave him a chance as I listed I was looking for a minimum of 5’9″. I showed up in heels, and i was quite a bit taller. Sat down, had dinner. I was not feeling it with this guy, but was very polite and kind just the same. But as he walked me to my car, I took off my shoes, because i had a previous ankle injury and my foot was hurting. WOW, I was still taller than him. I may have encouraged a second date, but after still towering over him, and him looking UP at me… no way. Wasted my time. Not that short men are not attractive… (both of my LTRs were my height) – it was the lying that I found unattractive.
I will say that online dating has been a lot of fun so far… but it has only been 7 weeks
nathan 74
Fiona, if your ex had a pattern of lying to get what he wanted, then I can understand why the initial age lie was so upsetting. Because what started with a lie was always defined by lies. But if that was really his only major lie, and there were a lot of other factors that led to the end of the relationship, then I struggle to see how you can blame the demise on him initially saying he was 2 years older.
I actually agree with you that dating a 25 year old in your mid30s is a risk. I’ve had a few opportunities to do so over the past few years: one I turned down, and the other one didn’t go anywhere, in large part because she “acted her age,” wanting to enjoy the dating scene so to speak. At the same time, when I am doing online dating I have a wide age range in both directions because I know there are people who don’t “fit” the story of their age group. One of the main reasons why the OP is frustrated, and why you see others here admitting to age shaving, is that the majority of people online don’t have the kind of wide filters I’m employing.
I get the sense that you’re blaming his desire for a career change on being a flighty 20 something, which doesn’t really doesn’t fly in the modern world anymore. People shift careers an average of 6-7 times across their lifespan now, including many people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s who were supposedly settled but wake up one day to wanting something different, or to being laid off and forced into something different.
I’m a person who believes in the spirit of the law, rather than the letter. Intention is very important to me, as is the context. No matter how you slice it, the beginning stages of dating are full of unsaid information, attempts to paint oneself in as good of light as possible, and mistaken perceptions. An honest person with integrity is one who recognizes this, and does his or her best to aim towards being as truthful as possible, given the circumstances. What does that mean in terms of age and online dating? I’ll be honest; I don’t know for sure. All I know is that I can understand why – given the context of online dating and how it operates – people might choose to shave a couple years off their age. And I tend to think that in the bigger scale of lies and how they impact a relationship, the 51 year old who says he’s 49 for example, really is doing something quite minor.
miskwa 75
A very timely post; I will turn 52 in a week and have just bailed outta my last dating site after being contacted by a string of 6 uneducated, minimally employed, and unhealthy guys that apparently did not read or cannot read my profile. Unlike many here that have replied, I am completely honest about age, height, and weight and have current photos. I look for fit educated guys that are older (up to 75) than I. I am not much into popular culture nor have I any interest in raising kids as are many younger or even equal aged guys. Maturity is good. I figure we women outlive men anyway. There was a lot of comment about what we women have to offer; I can tell you that if you mention being affectionate, caring, have a stable household and income, it gets mis understood as you being available for casual sex or that you are OK with someone who is looking for a meal ticket. In a small town such as this, it is very easy for someone to find out who I am and where I live and work; was cyber-stalked once by a guy from eHarmony that I had never even contacted-really scary. However, I have no choice but to look on line as there are zero healthy options in men here anywhere near my age or older. I have been told my colleagues to “settle” for someone unhealthy and/or uneducated that I have zero attraction for because “I am not getting any younger”. Been there; done that; does not work. Let me add that according to others I am indeed much younger looking than my 52 years (I dont think so) and have made it a priority to remain very fit and healthy. Nathan is very right, many boomer guys are looking for June Cleaver and Bridget Bardot wrapped in one even though they themselves are falling apart. A local guy thought I should clean his sloppy house, cook for him (I have a larger house and run a small farm and work full time) even though he is retired. I cannot leave my job right now nor do I want to spend the rest of my life alone. Very saddening and frustrating. I agree, Evan should do a post on dating site dishonesty and include not only age but other stuff such as financial situation, height and weight and having serious health issues. Last winter, I met with four on line guys that lied about one or more of the last four things as though I wasn’t going to notice. Dishonesty is dishonesty and does not make for a good first impression. I don’t get it; there are plenty of heavier women out there for guys that are heavy, plenty of shorter women out there for guys who are short, plenty of sedentary women for guys that are not active; why lie?!
Stan 76
@Katarina
You believe a man has got issues for refusing to date within his age range, yet you see nothing wrong in setting the minimum requirement of your online choice men at 5 9″
It’s amazing how lots of women point out the blinders men have as regards to women’s age but fail to perceive theirs when it comes to men’s height and income. Nice sentiments ladies.
Ruby 77
A friend of mine who is 57 knocks 3 years off her age on-line, to 54. She recently met a man who stated that he was divorced. At their first meeting, she let him know her real age. He responded by telling her that he was not divorced, but separated, and recently so. He actually seemed pleased, and responded that they were now “even.” My friend’s being 3 years older has no bearing on her ability to conduct a relationship, but a man’s marital status greatly affects his readiness for a relationship, not to mention the fact that he lied about something so important. Not all lies are equivalent.
I’ve met plenty of major liars online, men who knocked 15 years off their age and had 15 year old photos to match, men who lied about their marital status, men who claimed to want LTRs and marriage, but really didn’t. Some things, like an extreme lie about age or height, are evident right away, but sometimes the most insidious lies are not always detected right away.
Kathleen 78
Rather than contemplating slashing my wrists Ive been ruminating on what Evan had said about making something better.
Last night I changed my username and subtitle to something more mysterious, more creative, even more unique to me, and a bit “darker”.
Today so far Ive received new contact of 7 winks and 4 messages on Match, and 9 new contact messages on POF and one phone call from today.
Thats more than my norm by 6pm. I appreciate Evans encouragement not to give up.
Thanks Evan!
henriette 79
@miskwa 75. “I don’t get it; there are plenty of heavier women out there for guys that are heavy, plenty of shorter women out there for guys who are short, plenty of sedentary women for guys that are not active; why lie?!” Because the heavier guys think they deserve — and have the impression that they will actually get! — Gisele Bundchen; shorter guys think that they deserve — and have the impression that they’ll actually get! — Susan Anton. And sedentary men think that they deserve — and have the impression they will actually get! — the entire Olympic volleyball team.
And, folks, Evan & his lovely wife just had his second (and, probably last) child! If you think about it, he’s really been a surrogate dad to all of us, here: doling out sound advice; cheering us on through disappointments; helping us navigate the Wild West of the online dating world. He’d be the first one to congratulate any one of us who found true love, got married or left an abusive relationship. Don’t you think a few more of us could express some joy for *his* momentous life event?
Ellen 80
Henriette: I was going to shout out “CONGRATS” earlier this week but got momentarily distracted.
Feel bad about it.
So here’s my attempt to make amends: CONGRATS EVAN ON YOUR SON!!!
Much happiness to you both. Mazeltov! !
MIsha 81
Congratulations on the arrival of you new bundle of joy.
Here’s to your family and may you and your wife be getting some rest in between feedings and changings and taking time with your daughter.
MIsha 82
To Kathleen in 78.
Good to hear the small change resulted in some results. I think your profile gets “stale” so changing user name, profile and photos helps. And even doing a brand new profile helps bring you to the top as a new user. Good things to think of as you online date.
Nicole 83
@Miskwa…not all fat people marry/date other fat people b/c not all thin people prefer thin people. Spending time sociazling in real life shows you how often a lot of people like what they like (lid for every pot and all of that).
Kind of like sometimes ugly winds up with pretty, old winds up with young, rich winds up with poor, and uneducated winds up with educated. You have to cast a wide net to find the person who thinks that what you are is just right.
Dating is not so much about likes pairing up with likes in such a superficial way.
And yes, a LOT of heavy men will list only “slender” or “athletic” just like some of those athletic guys ask for full-figured, curvy, or more.
Some, not all. The nice thing about people listing their preferences (which is also sometimes the most annoying thing) is that you learn not to ASSUME anything about what something will like just b/c of what race, age, size, education, or income level they are.
Sheila 84
9/28/12 – I stumbled across this site – in search of understanding why the guy I met on-line – same age as me – 66 – who indicated interest in me – spent lunch time and walk in the park after time – in a basic monologue. Generally I try to give guys some ‘slack’ on first dates – nerves can make one present uncharacteristically. SO I will keep the 2nd date we have planned for tomorrow evening and see how that goes. Very little eye contact – nerves too?
But as I read over many of the above postings I appreciated Nathan’s perspective and Andrew & especially Katelyn’s which I most resonated with. I did date a guy from church who is actually older by 9 years but alive – so alive but alas his heart is closed so we are simply friends. But due to life crises he did a lot of inner work and it shows! Not sure what PUA’s are though. Thanks you all for sharing!
Sheila
Flower White 85
Congratulations to Evan and his wife on the birth of their son!
I have nothing to add to this convo as I’m on a vacation from dating.
JB 86
Just a random thought I’m going to throw out is that when people on online dating sites are doing searches inevitably the results will show people in their own age range as well as younger and the eyes of both men and women will gravitate towards the younger and create the illusion that those people are attainable when most of the time they’re not. In the 50+ age range a lot of men and women aren’t or are a lot less attracted to their own age so they email “down”(younger). It just is what it is from my observation. I get emails from women 8-9 yrs older than me every day who I’m sure aren’t emailing or returning emails from guys their own age who may be interested in them.
No matter what your search parameters are on Match for example they always throw in extra results that are OUTSIDE those parameters to A.) Give you more results and B.) Widen the scope of what you think you want or be interested in.
Susan61 87
I am 51 and have avoided online dating for the last few years because I abhor the lack of privacy. In order to get responses, you must plaster several photographs of yourself to the entire world and sell yourself (embarrassing, I’m decidedly old school) to an audience of strangers. I have experienced my ex’s best friend (male) following me around as I tried various dating sites, and taunting me with “oh, it’s you again”. So yes, each time he wrote, I knew he was telling my ex (who unceremoniously dumped me) that “oh, yeah, I saw her on match….Okcupid..or whatever.” This did not feel good. At all.
Yet, now I have three female friends – 45, 47 and 53 – who have met their current boyfriends on line. Heck, I met my ex-ex online but I broke up with him 5 years ago (and actually should have ended things after 6 months…). At 46 I then met the last man (in real life) who I thought was “the One” and was soundly dumped, because at only two years younger than he, I did not satisfy the desired 7-20 years younger age requirement. But let’s not rehash bygones.
So in the last couple of weeks I have considered tiptoeing back into the online dating world, much to my chagrin. At 51, I feel like I have no game. I have considered being “49″ because it seems like 50 is the death knell for women (unless you want to date 60′s – early 70′s men which I don’t – sorry) but I realize this could backfire. Yet, my ex blithely billed himself as 6 years younger than his REAL age, and was advertising for women AT LEAST 7 years younger than his REAL age.
Still, I would be embarrassed to be on that first date with a guy and surprise, we are actually hitting it off! He asks me what year I graduated from high school and then, I have to spill the truth – I AM FIFTY ONE YEARS OLD. Ugh. Nope, I just can’t lie.
So, maybe I’ll try online dating for a free trial or something. And when the octogenarians start responding from their rocking chairs, I’ll get a good laugh and think of my poor friend Bob who dropped dead three weeks ago from a heart attack at 50. And I’ll just go back to “smelling the roses” and enjoying life as a single, celibate, 51 year old woman.
Kathleen 88
Susan 61
It doesn’t sound like online dating is for you since your outlook is so negative. But if you eventually realize you have nothing to loose you could have a photographer take some fantastic shots you are proud of and have a good buddy help you write a confident and POSITIVE profile.
If you are seeking a top job you have to look your best at the interview and sell yourself to strangers. I have a photo on Linked in that strangers can see.
My ex who just turned 60 was on match looking for a 30-45 year old …Who cares!
Susan61 89
Thanks for your thoughtful and positive response, Kathleen. I appreciate your upbeat yet condescending post. Yet, it’s OK. I’ve done online dating off and on for about 20 years now so I know of what I speak. I’ve written amazing unique profiles and gone on many blind online dates. Seeking a job is NOT the same as online dating. I AM allowed, am I not, at this point in my life, to have an opinion about online dating that is not unfailingly positive?
Most people with Linked In profiles who are looking for a job do not have photos and you have to admit, it is a tad different from online dating. My outlook is realistic, pragmatic, perhaps bordering on negative and I’m sorry if that is the tone I conveyed. Best to you! P.S. It’s “lose”, not “loose”.
Karmic Equation 90
@Susan61 #89
Men don’t going to run from you because you are older than their desired age range, but rather because you’re negative and generally unpleasant to be around. One can glean this from your writing style and the words you choose to express yourself. You probably think you’re showing self-assurance, but it comes across as b*tchy instead. If you really want to find a good man, or even any man, never mind a good one, consider adjusting the attitude. I actually think you may get a lot out of the book, Why Men Love Bitches by Sherry Argov. There’s a difference between being a bitch as she defines it and the b*tchy that you’re demonstrating. Being a bitch doesn’t mean being bitchy.
Christine 91
I can see where Susan is coming from. I think we’ve all had those moments of being jaded about online dating. I know I certainly have! However, I try to keep in mind that it’s not a popularity contest. It’s true that us older ladies won’t get the “majority vote” of men on a given online dating site. But then again, none of us really needs a ton of suitors, just one right person. It’s still worth it to keep an oar in just in case–just don’t make it your life or hinge your sense of self-worth on it either.
I’m gradually coming to peace with the fact that I’ll find my Mr. Right late in life. There are some advantages to marrying late too. Even the people I know who met and married young (and are still happily married) faced some really tough challenges in their relationships. More often than not, they were less financially stable since they just graduated from school and hadn’t been in the workforce as long. It was very stressful for them trying to support a family in those circumstances. They often haven’t developed their personalities as much either, to really know their likes and dislikes (not to say that character is ever engraved in stone, but older people do tend to be more stabilized in their character, after having more life experience to learn about themselves). I also know people who married young, but then grew apart after they developed and changed in different directions. So I’m trying to look on the bright side of finding someone late in life. Now I won’t get to have a big wedding ceremony like the 20-something brides (and know my fertility will likely decline–but, that wouldn’t break my heart. While I absolutely love being an aunt, I have to admit I have mixed feelings about motherhood anyway so that wouldn’t crush me). However, finding someone later doesn’t have to be the end of the world and can be rewarding in its own way. I know plenty of older couples in their 30s and they don’t seem any less happy than the ones who married young, so I look to them for inspiration.
Katarina 92
@ Stan 76.
The desired height range is not arbitrary. You missed that i did meet the man even though he was shorter than what I listed.
You see I am thinking of the possible future: Short man/tall woman = awkward doggie style and … I am thinking of a 2 digit number….
And just for good measure, I don’t list income, ethnicity, religious, build, etc.. preferences.
Good luck in your search !
Lady K 93
@ Andrew #26 –
Love it!!! Brills. Changing my profile NOW!.
I’m adding my own twist but will keep #1 on the list the same.
Susan61 94
@Karmic Equation. #90
This is a good example of why internet dating is problematic. You have made a blanket judgmental statement about me, a human being you have never met, based on two postings on an internet board. A quite negative, and bordering on mean, judgement I might add. Ask my many friends, both male and female, if I am “generally unpleasant to be around” or if I am a “B*tch”. Ask my neighbors. Ask my letter carrier who brings me fresh tomatoes. Ask my co-workers. Ask my very large, loving family. Oh wait…you’ve never MET them. And you’ve never met ME.
Ask them if I’m negative….about online dating? Well, yeah, sometimes I am negative about it. With good reason! People online are judged based on writing style, photos and things like age, height. If one had met a person in real life one’s impression would be entirely different. The online world is inherently not capable of full human expression, both verbally and non-verbally hence, it’s profound limitations. And yes, it can be a great thing. My sister married a man she met online. As I mentioned, many of my friends are dating men they met online. I don’t like the idea of posting photos and the lack of privacy, as I mentioned. It just doesn’t sit well with me, especially as I get older. So sue me. I’m old school and life has increasingly become less personal with everyone sitting at home communicating on computers (myself included.)
So because I decide to post a somewhat negatively slanted opinion of online dating for an over 50 year old woman, you feel the need to judge so harshly? I guess that is your right, as a complete stranger, to make this judgment..if you wish…but I don’t think it will add well to your full “karmic equation.”
By the way, thanks…I did read that book. I agree it is an excellent read and I have recommended it to other women.
P.S. Sorry to disappoint, but men don’t run from me. I’m just picky and haven’t met the right one. Cheers!
Wendy 95
Susan61 #94 makes a good point about online dating vs. in person: “People online are judged based on writing style, photos and things like age, height. If one had met a person in real life one’s impression would be entirely different.”
I met the man I’ve been dating for over a year now in “the real world”. After a few weeks together, he told me he’d hit me up online a couple of months before (we were both on Match at the time) but I never responded. I didn’t even vaguely remember him, so he pulled up his profile, and…oh yeah. HIM. The old guy with kids who was obviously a player based on the photo of him hugging two hotties that he’d posted. In real life he turned out to be only two years older than me, his “kids” turned out to be one adult daughter who’d just moved back home briefly after college, and the two hotties were his daughter and her BFF. Was I ever WRONG! It’s a funny story now, but I could have missed meeting a great man if I’d left it up to my impression of his online presence.
I hope this guy’s “the one” and that I never have to do the online dating thing again, or any kind of dating {{shudder}} for that matter, but if I do, I will be way more forgiving of a man’s profile and much more likely to meet him if he asks me for a date!
JB 96
Yeah Wendy #95 - that’s happened to me at least 5 times over the years. I meet(walk up to) a woman out at a bar or singles event that I had emailed online and been ignored by and I get their number and a date with them within a half an hour. Then when I’m on the date with them I show them that I had already emailed them however long ago and that they ignored me. For the most part they say they “didn’t remember seeing my email”….LOL Sure, I don’t doubt it among the 100 they might of gotten that week.
I’ve said it many times when I’m perusing profiles online. If you put me in a room with these women I would have half of them dancing with me, chatting with me, and offering their number but online you just get lost in the statistical checkbox delusional expectation shuffle. It’s a lot more difficult to ignore someone that approaches you at a dance than on Match where they don’t even give it a thought.
Christine 97
Wendy@95, haha…that really is a funny story. I hope you didn’t ask who the bimbos were in the photo with him.
(just kidding)
It really is easy to get lost in the shuffle online, so I’m trying to learn not to take it so personally. I remember at this one particular Halloween party, I was stunned when one of the best-looking guys there came up to me and asked me to dance, even with younger and hotter girls around (and wearing much sexier outfits than the one I had on). He’s the type of guy who usually ignores me online. I think it’s because I was smiling, dancing and having a good time, while those other girls were just standing there doing their “haughty hottie” poses.
In the online world, youth and beauty are the only qualities that really count, because those are the only ones that are readily apparent from a computer screen. So us older women need to just focus the majority of our efforts in the real world.
Morris 98
This is my first comment on this site. I have really enjoyed reading many of the articles and comments. What I don’t understand is bashing men based on preferences. Women have them to you know.
What I think the real issue is is that women don’t know how to handle dating like men do. For decades women just had to post a profile and watch as messages came rolling in. As they get older the number(or quality) decreases. Well guess what? Men rarely get messages to begin with. We’re expected to write thoughtful personalized messages just to get a response. Imagine having to take the time to message a dozen women. Just to get a few replies. Just to get a single date.
In this day and age I just can’t sympathize. For the people talking about lying. As long as you are ok with others lying I guess it will be a good match. I don’t see how a good lasting relationship could come from it though. Otherwise women-up and start messaging men in masses. Market yourself and expect to message dozens of men for a couple of dates. Welcome to dating equality.
Kathleen 99
Older women like myself didn’t have online dating when we were young so I can’t imagine the overwhelming deluge of messages they watch rolling in.
I have success with witty one liners tailored to the guy. I prefer that from guys too.
I can relate to Wendys comment. Ive been out in public a few times and approached by guys who greeted me with my online user name……Now thats embarrassing … Think Im overexposed LOL
Veronica 100
I did some online dating ten years ago and grew a two year relationship out of that experience. Now, I’m in my mid 50s and a licensed marriage and family therapist. And I’m still alone. I haven’t focused on this aspect of my life near as much as I have focused on surviving the recession as a private practice therapist and raising my two kids. When it comes to online dating sites, I have observed all the same challenges detailed here. In addition, I feel I can’t post photos, as I really don’t want clients seeing me online. Worse yet, would be accidentally connecting with a client or former client through a dating site.
Karmic Equation 101
@ Susan61 from #89
“At 46 I then met the last man (in real life) who I thought was “the One” and was soundly dumped, because at only two years younger than he, I did not satisfy the desired 7-20 years younger age requirement.”
I’m sorry to have to burst your bubble, Susan, but if a man really likes you, a 2-yr age difference doesn’t mean squat. He was using that as an excuse to end the relationship. Possibly did this because he felt you could go off on him and he wanted to avoid a scene.
My current BF is 13 yrs my jr. MaryMary’s bf is also a lot younger than her. Both have proposed. Using age to disqualify a woman as LTR material AFTER DATING her is a smokescreen.
@ Susan61 from #94
“This is a good example of why internet dating is problematic. You have made a blanket judgmental statement about me, a human being you have never met, based on two postings on an internet board.”
From your posts #89
“Thanks for your thoughtful and positive response, Kathleen. I appreciate your upbeat yet condescending post.”
“P.S. It’s “lose”, not “loose”.”
Pot calling the kettle black, wouldn’t you say? Without knowing Kathleen, who was trying to be helpful, you labeled her post condescending and felt the need to correct her spelling. Why? B*tchy if you ask me.
“P.S. Sorry to disappoint, but men don’t run from me. I’m just picky and haven’t met the right one.”
I was a miserable teenager. I didn’t like people much. One of my defense mechanisms was to reject people as friends before they had a chance to reject me.
Your “pickiness” is probably YOUR defense mechanism. Reject men before they can reject you. Because deep down, you know they may reject you. So why not do a pre-emptive rejection and feel falsely empowered?
I agree that “The online world is inherently not capable of full human expression, both verbally and non-verbally hence, it’s profound limitations.” (Very well put, btw) — But you are in denial about your b*tchiness.
I stand by what I originally wrote, you need to adjust your attitude if you want to find a man to love you. Put more conscious thought into your postings; if you want to come across as nice and positive, use nice and positive words. If that is a struggle, guess what? Your default setting isn’t nice or positive. And you should ask yourself if you do this on dates, too. I’m sorry if I sound mean. Just calling it like I see it.
Christine 102
Well, I wonder if online dating is that feasible for any older woman in her 30s such as myself. On one hand, I’m too old for the mainstream dating sites such as match.com–but on the other, I’m still too young for the “mature” or “senior” dating niche sites that are available as well (which start at 40). After years of trying, I think online dating works best for the 20-somethings, but I might get back on to one site just in case there is any man out there willing to give a 30-something a chance. I wish that my 30-something peers would just give me a chance but, rather than railing against the rules of the game I’ve learned to just adapt to them. I’m still trying to decide whether to hold out for a 30-something, or settle for an old man in his late 30s or early 40s. Theoretically I would prefer a man around my own age, to have common life experiences and references. However, I’m trying to be more openminded and think that perhaps I can still be happy with an older man, even if that’s not what I thought my happy ending would look like.
Karmic Equation 103
@Christine 102
— Alas, while I’m attractive in person, I have the way I look in pictures. I don’t lack for male attention live. And I’m sure if I dated online, that would be an ego-killer for me!
I have two colleagues that I know of who married their Match.com dates. One is in her late 30′s. The other was in her 60′s.
You can find someone there I’m sure, particularly if you’re photogenic
Good luck. Don’t give up hope. I think you should try it.
marymary 104
Thanks for the shout out karmic but he hasn’t proposed yet! It,s what we are aiming at and he has mentioned it, but we haven’t been dating long enough.
i don’t think age is such a big barrier. If all twenty five year olds are finding it so easy to get married, then there wouldn’t be any older singles. I also think it,s less uncommon for men to date and even marry older women. want the ones who want you and while I certainly made eyes at men older than me, it was the boyfriend who was interested.
as for common life references I was such a late developer and we were both brought up in Christian homes so that is a non issue. Do people really spend that much time talking about pop music?
Christine 105
Karmic Equation @ 103, thanks for the encouragement! I guess I’m just frustrated and burned out but I think I’ll eventually find it within myself to try again–because I also don’t see an alternative (if there was an alternative to dating, I’d use it). I just have to learn to stop taking it so personally and stop letting it kill my confidence so much. I used to think of myself as a relatively young and attractive person but online dating killed a lot of my self-esteem, when I repeatedly kept seeing the guys I liked going for younger women. Well, I’m trying not to let that affect me so much and to feel valuable independent of what some strangers think of me (which they really are). Alas, how I look in photos tends to be hit or miss! (however, once in a while when I hit the right angle(s) I can clean up decently in photos!)
I felt better after looking at New York Times wedding announcements and seeing women in their thirties and beyond somehow still getting married to men around their age. Maybe there are men out there who actually want to marry their peers (but most of them just aren’t online). There were twenty something brides too but, I noticed most of them were getting married to men in THEIR twenties as well. That made me think that perhaps all the talk about women in their twenties snapping up the good older men might be overstated–or else you would think that there would be more marriages between the older men in their thirties and young women in their twenties. Not that the New York Times may necessarily be a representative sample, but it made me think that perhaps there is a chance for me.