Are Height Requirements Still Keeping You From Finding Love?

In the annals of “things that definitely don’t matter when you’re 70″, nothing is more irrelevant to marital happiness than height.

Money matters. If one partner is chronically unemployed or in debt, relations can get strained.

Intelligence matters. If your partner can’t understand what you’re talking about or lacks the maturity to try, he’s a waste of time.

Weight matters. If someone is morbidly obese, he’s probably not making it to age 70.

(By the way, ladies, this does NOT mean he has to be taller, smarter or fitter than you. He just can’t be poor, stupid and fat. Got it?)

Nothing is more irrelevant to marital happiness than height.

But one thing that I’ve never really gotten – after 10 years as a dating coach – was women’s obsession with height. And it’s not a myth. It’s real. An article on Jezebel discusses a report from the Atlantic that illustrates that the average height differential between 4600 married American couples was six inches and that the wife was taller in 3.8% of couples. However, “when the author randomized the information as well to see what would come up by chance, he found something surprising: left to chance, the wives were taller in 7.8 percent of couples— twice as many as before. Meaning, people are choosing to maintain this six inches of difference by going out of their way to pair up according to this distinction.”

This is a rigid and arbitrary preference – most noteworthy, to me, in short and tall women.

With short women, EVERYBODY’s taller. So, if you’re 5’1″, what difference does it make if he’s 5’7″ or 6’1″? Yet some short women discriminate against average sized (5’7-5’11″) men.

On the other hand, with tall women, since only 15% of men are over 6 feet tall, it would stand to reason that a 5’11″ woman would be well served to open up to shorter men, instead of insisting that he has to be 6’3′, because that’s how tall she is in heels. There simply aren’t enough 6’3″ men to go around, and if you restrict yourself to them, you’re killing your chances of finding love – for pretty much no reason.

It would be like a male millionaire holding out for a female millionaire who makes more than he does. Is it possible? Yes. Likely? No. Necessary? Definitely not.

The author of the Jezebel piece is 5’11″ and had a very healthy and refreshing take on height:

I never felt I was making some kind of concession by dating men shorter than me — I just dated people I was attracted to. But since most men are shorter than I am, had I eliminated them on the basis of shortness, I’d have been sitting out all those dances I never actually went to. In order to find a guy six inches taller, I’d have to find a guy who was 6’5.

She ended up marrying a guy a few inches shorter than her. Good for her.

And if this bugs you and you think you should be holding out for a tall guy, that’s your business. Just keep in mind that your current height criteria cuts your potential mates drastically – and that’s before we talk about age, ethnicity, education, income, personality, religion, emotional intelligence, values, kindness, consistency, attraction to you and desire to be married. He’s gotta have all of those things, plus be in the 15% of men who are six feet tall? Good luck with that.

Please read the article here and share your thoughts below.

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139 Comments »Filed Under Dating

139 Responses to “Are Height Requirements Still Keeping You From Finding Love?”

Goldie 1

I totally agree! I’m 5’9″. During my last round of dating, I took Evan’s advice and set the height cutoff at 5’8″ instead of 6’0″ like I’d previously used to. It increased my dating pool dramatically, so I no longer felt like I had to go on dates with borderline douchebags just because they’re tall enough. Let me tell you, there are a lot of really amazing men on this side of six feet. I will however add that, if you say you’re looking for 5’8″, you will get responses from guys who say they’re 5’7″, and are actually 5’6″. But, as long as they’re cool with the height difference, and have good partner qualities, so what? As long as the man isn’t intimidated by my 6’2″ and 6’3″ children, I’m fine with the arrangement.
Vanessa 2

Great article – but I think you and the data you referenced are eliminating a very big portion of the equation – men who won’t date taller women.
As much as women discriminate because of height, men do the same thing, my own man (and several male friends) included. I’ve heard many men state that a woman taller than them would be a turn off so in the instances above where the woman are only taller in a small percentage, that could be as a result of the woman’s choice, the man’s choice, or both.
All of that being said, I agree the height discrimination is a petty one. One I used to hold to. At 5’4, I’m shorter than most, but preferred a guy at least 3 inches taller than I. Had I stuck to that criteria when I met my boyfriend, I would’ve walked away from the greatest thing to happen to me. Looking back, I’m so glad I didn’t stick to some petty criteria that could’ve cost me some of the most amazing moments of my life thus far.
Some other guy 3

@Goldie – You said you lowered your height requirement – why do you have one at all? Does it really matter?
Ruby 4

Vanessa #2

I agree. At 5’8″, I’m on the tall side for a woman, but not exactly a giantess. Yet I’ve met men who were over 6 feet tall who thought I was too tall for them, and would actually remark on my height. And those were just the ones who commented; I’m sure there were others who felt that way, but kept it to themselves. OTOH, I’ve dated shorter men who didn’t care a bit. While someone more than a couple of inches shorter probably wouldn’t work for me (I don’t want to feel too big), I try to focus on the the type of person he is before anything else.
Goldie 5

Some other guy – what can I say, I’m only human. I’m not yet at that point where I’m okay being out with a guy 8-9 inches shorter than I am. Maybe next time. My current boyfriend is 5’10″.
Karl R 6

Vanessa said: (#2)
“I think you and the data you referenced are eliminating a very big portion of the equation – men who won’t date taller women.”

They’re irrelevant.

Your available dating pool is made up of the men who want to date you. No matter how much you change your attitude, that number of men is fixed.

Let’s say there are 150 single men in your extended social circle. Let’s say that 80% of them are interested in dating you (30 men). They’re interested in dating you exactly the way you are: 5’4″, your height, your weight.

No matter how you change your attitude, the other 120 still won’t want to date you.

But now the second part of the equation comes into play. How many of those 30 men are you interested in dating? How many do you think are too old, too young, too fat, too skinny, too short, too ugly … or whatever other criteria you choose to use.

Depending on what criteria you choose, that group of 30 men could get whittled down to 25, 10, 5, 3, 1 or none. If you’re 5’4″ and holding out for a man who is at least 5’7″, you’ve eliminated several men out of the 30 (the exact number depends on how much your height mattered to the men). Then you start cutting out men because of age, obesity, attractiveness, employment/income, etc. …

Height is a stupid reason to eliminate someone. It doesn’t matter how few people you’re eliminating. If I ruled out women who were taller than me, I’d be ruling out less than 1% of all women. And it would still be a stupid and self-defeating reason to eliminate women. (In comparison, you were eliminating 19% of all men, by seeking men at least 3″ taller than you.)
Vanessa 7

Karl R #6 - I understand what you’re trying to point out but was making the statement more to the point that men are cutting their dating pool just as much as women are cutting there’s by discriminating against height.

For example, that 30 men you mentioned may have been higher, had men within that group not discriminated against me because I was their height, too short, or too tall for them.

The article noted the height difference but my point was simply that it didn’t show if the height difference was a coincidence, or something consciously (or subconsciously) done by the man or woman in the pairing. In other words, I’ve seen just as many men discriminate due to height as I’ve seen women. Do I think it’s right, no, but it does occur.
cat 8

Dating taller men boils down to physical attraction. I’m 5’9″ & didn’t date shorter men or even men my own height. Men normally don’t date women that they don’t find attractive either based on height, weight, hair color, boob size, eye shape, etc, etc. Height is just one of numerous physical attributes that determine physical attraction. If you’re a tall (or short) woman & don’t want to date shorter men, don’t. Who cares if it shrinks your dating pool. The article basically says change what you’re attracted to & that isn’t realistic. I’m married to a tall, dark & handsome man. And he’s about the shortest man I dated at 6’1″.
Kathleen 9

Good article. Im at least 6 foot when Im out in heels so Im visibly aware of the smaller pool of tall men.!! Im always astounded when short women say they won’t date anyone under 6 foot but I think tall men are afforded an unconscious elevation of status , just for being tall.
I did have a lover who was 5 foot 6″ but he was an extremely confident guy who insisted I wear sexy high heels. You should have seen us dancing with his head at my chest and all the attention we would get LOL
Think this is a great point Evan so I lowered my height range today.
Goldie 10

@ cat #8: “Who cares if it shrinks your dating pool. The article basically says change what you’re attracted to & that isn’t realistic.”

It doesn’t just shrink your dating pool. It rules out a large number of quality men, that you would’ve enjoyed dating if you knew they existed. But you won’t, because they failed to meet the height requirement. This is the one downside of online dating. We’ve all met guys in real life who have so much personality and charisma, we don’t even notice how tall they are. They could be an inch or two shorter and we’d go out with them anyway, without paying attention to their height. Online though, we’ll never even get to meet them, because they won’t get through our filter. From where I stand, it looks like we’re the ones that are missing out.

I was married to a 6″ man, look where it got me
Joe 11

Vanessa, you’re still kind of missing the point. Evan is here not to point out the ways men can change their dating perspectives to find love–he’s here to point out how women can change their dating perspectives to find love.
Jenna 12

Height isn’t a huge issue for me, but one thing that irritates me is men who don’t work out regularly. If I’m thin and work out five times a week, why do I have to settle for a flabby guy or a guy with no muscles? It’s not an instant disqualifier, but I’m aware of it. And even writing this makes me sound superficial, but I just want someone of roughly equal attractiveness and when girls say things like that they get slammed.
cat 13

@ Goldie – it doesn’t really apply to me now since I’m married. But I was just stating that I did have a height requirement & I did find love.
Yuri 14

I totally agree with this article. Some added height is nice, but it won’t attract me to a guy. The average male is 5’10″!! Why would I ask for someone over 6 feet tall?
I’m 5’6″, and I’ve dated guys from 5’2″ to 6’6″. I will admit that I would like a guy to be at least my height or around it, but I won’t shut out a guy if he doesn’t qualify for my height standards. Height has nothing to do with personality, which is far more important to me.

That being said, my boyfriend is 6 feet tall, but it honestly had very little to do with my attraction to him. He’s just an awesome person who happens to be tall. I’d feel the same about him if he were 5’4″. It really is inconsequential in the great scheme of things.
Amy 15

When I see couples where the man is shorter, woman taller, I think it shows confidence on the part of both people, they just don’t care about conformity. There is something very sexy about that. I am 5ft 6in, and have dated men who are 5ft 5in, all the way to about 6ft 3 in. Taller isn’t necessarily better, sometimes I feel slightly intimidated if a guy is too tall, like he’s looking down on the top of my head…not a good feeling. At the same time, no woman wants to be in bed with a guy who makes her feel like the incredible hulk. 5ft 5in or so is almost too short for me, though I’m fine with a guy who’s 5ft 8 or 9 in. There are plenty of women who are tiny, 5ft tall or shorter. A guy who is 5ft 5in is almost 6 inches taller than those women, so have at it I say!
There is a strong psychological element to this that the article doesn’t address: many women feel safer with a guy who is at least a little taller (2-3in) than them. I don’t think this is cultural, but more biological, evolutionary.
Vanessa 16

Joe #11 – Again I understand that and agree with Evan that the idea of dating someone by height is ludicrous. My point was more in addressing where Evan stated, ‘But one thing that I’ve never really gotten – after 10 years as a dating coach – was women’s obsession with height.’ I was making a point of noting that although women may be ‘obsessed’ with height, men are just as likely to be obsessed by the height factor.
Goldie 17

@ Cat #13 – congratulations on your marriage. But I’m confused, why do you advise other people, who didn’t yet find love, not to give up on their height requirements, yet you do not give them any logical reasons why they shouldn’t? “I am married to a tall guy” is not a logical reason. What good it is to them that you are married to an awesome tall guy? it’s not like they can have him.
cat 18

@Goldie#17…I’m saying you don’t have to lower your standards or try to change what you are naturally attracted to. If you’re a woman who is attracted to shorter men that’s great, if you’re a woman who is not attracted to shorter men, that’s great too. Don’t be ashamed of what you’re naturally attracted to. In the long run, if you’re trying to force yourself to be physically attracted to something you’re not naturally inclined to just because there is “more out there”, I think it may cause problems down the line in the relationship.
Jackie Holness 19

Height shouldn’t be too critical of an issue in finding love, but so glad my fiance’ is over 6 feet tall…LOL….
Kristen 20

I am a six feet tall woman. It would be nice to date men who are taller but it’s not realistic. The vast majority of men I have dated have been shorter than me. The shortest was 5’2″. Despite the fact that I am very open to dating shorter men, I have found that men, no matter what their height, are not nearly as open to dating very tall women. I’ve had quite a few men insist that I only wear flat shoes so that I don’t appear so much taller. I’ve never asked a guy to wear lifts nor has even it crossed my mind.

I would venture to guess that the discrimination I face in online dating based on my height is probably equal to or greater than that faced by very short men. I have found that listing my height in my profile as 5’11″ instead of 6’0″ has resulted in more men contacting me or responding to me online but not significantly more. Once I changed my height to 5’7″ for a week just to see what would happen. I had probably 100x the number of men view my profile and recieved 20x the number of messages than I did when my height was listed at 6’0″. To put this in perspective, when my true height was listed I was only getting 1 or 2 messages per week. Then I removed the fact that I am a vegetarian and a lawyer from my profile. It made no difference in the number of profile views or messages I recieved regardless of whether my height was listed at 6’0″ or 5’7″. So I know that of those three things (vegetarian, 6’0 and lawyer), it’s my height that makes the difference in whether men online are interested in me.

While tall men may be both in high demand and short supply, only 0.7% of women are 5’10″ or taller so it’s not like men feel they are missing out by excluding such a small percentage of women. I find it interesting that I get approached by men much more frequently in real life than ever contact me online. At this point, I have kind of given up on online dating as a way to meet anyone due to the lack of interest men online have in me.
Robyn 21

It’s a great idea in principle – broaden your search criteria & there will be many more candidates that meet your criteria & are potential partners.
But just because you decide, as a tall woman (which I am at 6ft barefoot) that you are now open to dating shorter guys, doesn’t mean that there are suddenly going to be a slew of shorter guys that want to date you.
In my personal experience, the majority of men do not find women that are physically bigger than them (height-wise or width-wise) attractive. Some of it’s due to millions of years of biological wiring, and some of it’s due to centuries of societal attitudes and practices (that were partly driven by the same biological wiring), and then there’s just individual personal preferences that are not logically explainable (e.g. some guys love brunettes, others prefer blondes – there’s no reason for their preferences – it just “is what it is”).
So in some ways. “going shorter” when you are a significantly tall woman may just result in even more rejection. Which kinda defeats the object of the exercise.
But on the other hand, holding out for the perfect 6’3″ tall guy would make it exponentially more difficult to find a mutual match.
I have always set my desired height range to 5’10″ and up when it comes to online dating, because that’s a total of twice the potential partner population than the number of men that are over 6′ tall.
Assuming that not too many of the bunch are lying about their height (ha, ha, ha!).
I don’t “go shorter” than 5’10″ online any more for much the same reason as I mentioned above – plus many more men exaggerate their height if they are below average height (which is 5’9″ for men in the US).
In my experience anyway – “going significantly shorter” was in the end counter-productive. I just ended up on more dates where I got the “gee you’re so tall” comment (& it wasn’t a “oh goodie, I’m loving that you’re tall” complimentary type of comment).
[Note: My profile contains my real height - I guess these fella's didn't read too closely... yet another cliche].
I’ve heard of some tall women that actually post their height online as been an inch or two taller than it really is, so that they – in theory – are less likely to run into the above situation. But I’ve never tried it myself. Seems like too much of trying to “game the system” which is already full of people fudging their age/height/marital status in order to get ahead.
Rochelle 22

I think it’s about finding a medium.. I toned down my preference for taller men awhile ago. In my early college years he HAD to be at least 6′, lol, then I found myself attracted to men the same height as me and realized it was one of those criteria that wasn’t as important as I thought. I would ideally like him to be 6’2″ but it’s hasn’t been mandatory for years. Funny thing is once I let go of making it “must be at least 6′” mainly 6′ or so men started to show up. And I’m still not particularly attracted to shorter men, like 5’5″. (I’m 5’7″) For me I don’t see it as a hindrance in my current decision in not dating shorter than me, since all the men who approach me are either slightly taller or much taller.
Karmic Equation 23

I’m just shy of 5′ and only TWO guys 5’9″ or less have ever asked me out on a date (one was was about 5’5″, the other 5’9″). My ex hubby and ex-LTR of 6 yrs were 5’10″ — my other bfs have been over 6′ tall. And currently most of the men I’m attracting are around 6′.

I get what Vanessa’s saying. If “short” guys don’t ask me out, I can’t date them, can I? And practically ALL shorter-than-average guys ARE taller than me!

Since I don’t believe in making the first move, that means I’m dating 5’10″ + guys because THEY are seeking ME out, not the other way around.

I believe Vanessa’s saying that MEN’s preferences contribute to the statistics as much as women’s do. Maybe even more so, as I’m pretty sure that MOST women on this site AREN’T making the first move.
Goldie 24

Cat #18, this is exactly the point I am trying to make — yes, we need to have our standards and not compromise on what we want in a partner, otherwise the relationship will not work. But compared to other things that are critical in a partner, including physical attraction, height is not that strict of a standard. Worse, it is an artificial standard. On paper we have no problem saying that we only want 6’0″ and won’t ever settle for 5’11″, yet in real life we won’t be able to even tell the difference between the two. Worse yet, it is an artificial standard that distracts us from things that we are really attracted to. One thing I found with strict, external guidelines like that is that they create a blind spot. They make you overlook things you should not be overlooking. If a woman only wants a guy 6′ tall or higher, and only finds three of them available that are also interested in her, she’ll be tempted to ignore those three guys’ negative traits, because these tall men are so rare and were so hard for her to find. Now this is what will cause her problems down the line in the relationship. Don’t know how long you’ve been married, but from my experience, after you’ve been with the man for over 20 years, his height is the least of your concerns. Other things become more important and they are the things that will make or break a marriage or relationship. When we severely limit our pool based on something like height, this makes us ignore those other things. This is all I am saying.
Lauren 25

Aren’t we ignoring a real factor here – the psychological impact that being short and having a small stature while growing up has on a man? It’s common enough that it has a name – a Napoleon Complex. I have had male friends and acquaintances who have been under 5’8″, and I’ve found that these men can be defensive and feel like they have something to prove, and might be excessively into lifting weights or into their looks.
While they might be great guys on the inside, if he feels like he has to compensate for something, that is a turn off (as it would be for anyone, male or female, that doesn’t feel comfortable in their own skin).
I’m 5’4″, I’ve dated men ranging from 5’6″ to 6’7″. The last time I did online dating, I didn’t restrict my matches on height since I figured it would increase my odds. I do have to admit, my boyfriend is 6′, and his height/build is part of what makes him attractive, but even if he was my height, I’d still be attracted to him!
Duri 26

This is something I’ve discussed with my live-in boyfriend. Early on, he asked me if I would have dated him if he were exactly the same, except 5’8″ or 5’10″ (I’m just over 5’8″ and he’s 6’2″). My response surprised me: “I would have, except I never would have found you.” I can honestly say I would be very happy to be with a 5’10″ version of him (who really cares; we’re compatible), BUT I realized that we literally wouldn’t have met if he were that height because it was the most constant criteria I used in running searches online (OKCupid) and that’s how I first contacted him. He wasn’t in my matches until I searched, either. It’s hard to knock a system that worked extremely well for me (I was online dating less than a week, because I met him, and we’re coming up on 2 years of bliss), and at a certain point you have to use some criteria to narrow down the masses online, but I now recognize that that particular criteria could have really screwed me out of the best thing I’ve ever found.
cat 27

@Goldie 24 – I agree, it’s not that “strict” of a standard, but it is what it is. I guess there are women that can/do compromise it & there are those that don’t. I was the latter & it all worked out.
Laine 28

I like tall men. I am just not attracted to men who are shorter than me. Never have been, never will. Im 5’8 and my boyfriend is 6 ft.
starthrower68 29

Height is to men what weight is to women. Except with overweight women are perceived as lazy and stupid. Because my weight makes me unattractive no one would guess I work two jobs and have an MPA. I’m not mad about it, it is what it is. I have not been successful at weight loss so I will just accept that I am undatable. The pressure is off
Kristen 30

I agree with Robyn 21. As I mentioned ealier, I am 6″0″ and, while the majority of men I have dated have been shorter than me, only a couple have been under 5’10″. I would guess that this is because men don’t want to date women who are much more than a couple inches taller. I don’t list a height preference on my profile. Nevertheless, most of the men (at least 90%) who contact me online are not under 5’10.” So while I am open to dating any height, men of average height or less don’t seem too interested in dating me.
Jen 31

There is nothing wrong with having a preference for a certain range of heights. How is that any more shallow than all the other things that people judge other people’s attractiveness on? Yes some take it to an extreme and they should be more open minded. But we all look for what we are attracted to.
To the extent you can show any quantifiable characteristic is not important for happiness a relationship, you are making the argument against online dating. How are we supposed to know if the short guy, or the older or younger one, or the less attractive one (maybe he’s only less attractive in two dimensions), or the one with different politics, or whatever…is the one that we will have chemistry with in real life, despite our superficial preferences? Just meet them in real life and you don’t have to have search criteria. You don’t have to spend more than a few moments finding out if there is some potential.
Cat5 32

I am just going to repeat what I said in the other height-related blog post Evan made:

“We had a discussion about this issue last week at work.

As a 6′ tall woman, I get a lot of comments about how I should be dating shorter men to expand my dating pool. People often say that height doesn’t matter because [insert crude reference here]. People say these things to me despite the fact my ex-husband was shorter than me by an inch or two, and that I have dated many men shorter than me (and many men taller than me). The shortest gentleman I ever dated was 5′ 3″. He was a great guy but the height difference was just too awkward. I don’t mind an inch or two, but 9″ is just too much.

So when a 6’2″ gentleman said this to me last week, I asked him — So you would be okay dating a 6″ 11″ tall woman? a 6′ 5″ woman? a 6′ 2″ woman? Suddenly everything was different. Not only would he not date a 6′ 11″ woman, he didn’t think he would even date a 6′ 2″ woman. And most of the guys at the table agreed with him. A few even admitted they wouldn’t date me because I was 6′ and usually wore heels, making me at about 6′ 3″ most of the time.

So it’s not just women who have an issue with height. Men have their own also. “
Zina 33

I’m a long-time reader of this blog, first-time poster.
i totally agree with Lauren @25. Many short men I’ve met DO have some degree of the Napoleon Complex – and they always try to compensate for it. In many times, it was actually a good thing as they tried harder to work on relationship issues, please in bed, be a good partner in general. May be because they felt they HAVE to work harder than the taller men – who, as correctly pointed out, have more dating options and are, in general, considered to be “more attractive”. In other cases, the chip on their shoulder was too big and they looked clearly uncomfortable in the presense of taller men. I’ve also heard from men that they LIKE shorter women (that is, shorter than them) because it makes them feel more masculine and “protective” (not my words, just repeating).
Chris 34

I don’t find short women sexy…anything less than 5ft 5 just doesn’t appeal to me….It’s not just women who look at height, men like tall women too. A friend of mine who was dating a girl told me that one thing he didn’t like about his girlfriend was that she was short (5ft 4) and he was 6 ft 1. Sorry but men like height too.
Karl R 35

Average Height, U.S. Men: 5’9″
Average Height, U.S. Women: 5’4″

Regarding the “Napoleon Complex”:
If I was six inches shorter, people would probably claim that I have a Napoleon complex. I’m extroverted. I’m a show-off. If anyone ever accuses me of being modest, I’ll be acquitted due to a lack of evidence.

Short men are just as capable of being show-offs, immodest, belligerent, ostentatious or downright jackasses as taller men. But if a short man has those traits, it’s evidence that he has a “Napoleon complex”. A man’s not a jackass because he’s short. He’s a jackass because he’s a jackass. Leave the rest of the short men out of it.

Cat5 said: (#32)
“the height difference was just too awkward. I don’t mind an inch or two, but 9″ is just too much.”

I’m married to a woman who is at least 10″ shorter than me. I’ve dated a woman who was at least 12″ shorter than me. Why is the height difference more awkward for you than it is for me? The awkwardness is psychological, not physiological.

I haven’t met any women who were 9″ (or 12″) taller than me, so I can’t really compare in that direction. Any woman that tall is going to find doorways and ceiling fans awkward to deal with. My height should probably be the least of her concerns.

Cat5 said: (#32)
“So it’s not just women who have an issue with height. Men have their own also.”

Let me draw an analogy to age. I realized I could expand my dating pool by including women who were older than me. Most of the women who were 8+ years older than me had an issue with dating a man that much younger than them. That meant I was only adding the minority of women who didn’t have an issue with it.

But if I refused to date women that much older than me (and justified it by pointing out that most of those women didn’t want to date men that much younger), I wouldn’t be married to my wife.

Joe said: (#11)
“Evan is here not to point out the ways men can change their dating perspectives to find love–he’s here to point out how women can change their dating perspectives to find love.”

That’s not true. Evan points out how you can change your dating perspectives to find love. Everything Evan says about changing perspectives applies to men and women.

The majority of Evan’s readers and clients and readers are women, so he more frequently addresses their issues. But if he’s addressing a man’s issues, he’s not telling the man how women need to change their perspective.
Sparkling Emerald 36

Since I am only 5’3″ , the height thing really is moot. I don’t care about height, and I used to rag on my gf’s who did, but if it comes down to what you are attracted to, you can’t force yourself to feel something you don’t. If a woman is rejecting men based on height because she’s worried about “appearances”, then I’d say her height requirement is silly, but honestly, if you aren’t attracted to someone, why waste anyone’s time ?
I know my dating pool is shrunk because I am an a-cup. I think boob size is totally irrelevant in long term relationships, at 80 years of age, big boobs will likely be sagging around her waist anyway. But I accept that most men on the planet won’t be attracted to me for one reason or another, my little itty-bitty cup size included. “T” men will reject me, “A” men will adore me, because my “A” is pretty darn cute. Some men are attracted to blondes, so I’m out of their dating pool, but men who are into redheads think I’m pretty cute.
I can’t really put my finger on what type of man I am attracted to. I know height doesn’t figure in at all. I know I am mostly focused on the face,( and strong nice toned arms ) and although I couldn’t tell you why, it’s either a face I could love or not. I know it when I see it. Some men who are basically attractive, I am not attracted to, and I have been attracted to men with “interesting” but not necessarily attractive faces. I am open to men with a few extra pounds, I don’t mind bald, I couldn’t care less about height. I am rarely attracted to men outside of my race (but it has happened a few times), so on my profile I put “no preference” under race. A good clear, close up of the face, will tell me if the attraction is a “yes”, “maybe” or “no”. I have a big age range in my profile and have left out things like income and height. The main thing I am looking for in a relationship is compatibility, someone who treats me like a queen (and I will treat him like a King), some shared interests, shared values, and chemistry. The chemistry doesn’t have to be white hot, but there has to be SOME. Some women just KNOW they couldn’t be attracted to a shorter guy, just like some guys KNOW their woman has to have big boobs. I think for ladies who are just worried about what other people will think, take that height requirement out of the equation, and see if anyone surprises you. I know I have sometimes been surprised by who I am attracted to and who I have not been attracted to. However, no matter how wildly attractive I find someone, if he doesn’t treat me right, I am GONE !
Cat5 37

Karl R @ #35 said: “Why is the height difference more awkward for you than it is for me?”

I don’t know Karl R. I’ve never dated a woman 12″ shorter than me. If I do, I’ll be happy to let you know if it was awkward.

But, seriously — are you being deliberately obtuse? I don’t have the first damn clue why it is awkward for me and not for you. Why would it matter if it wasn’t awkward for you? Am I supposed to slap myself on the forehead and say. “Doh! Since it wasn’t awkward for Karl R. I must be wrong,” and start dating men so much shorter than me that I feel awkward and uncomfortable because it doesn’t bother you Karl R.? That should make for a great relationship for me. Your question is nonsensical.
Morris 38

I think it is perfectly fine to have a height requirement. As long as we understand that all of our requirements shrink the pool of eligible people.(Some more than others.) So if it’s working for you I don’t think you need to think about it much. But if it isn’t I think we all need to look at the list of requirements we have and really think hard about what is important in the long run.
jules 39

My preference is that a man be taller than me, and at 5’4″ that is not much of a hurdle. The issue for me is always that men below a certain height are almost universally lying about it online, which I find a far bigger turn-off than their actual height.
Girl in the Midwest 40

I’m 5’4, and I don’t have strict requirements for guys’ height. I think for lots of women, height falls under “being attracted to him”. And so the advice that we give for how much importance to place on chemistry is also the advice for how much importance to place on height.

I just want to add thing that I don’t think has been mentioned. My friend is married to a man who is her height, 5’4. She loves him dearly and they have a great relationship. She recently had a baby girl, and confessed to me that she was relieved that when she found out it was a girl because “she would be worried for her child if it were a boy, since he’d have a disadvantage in dating and the workplace because she and her husband were short” (her words). I think it’s similar to how I hope how I won’t have a gay child, not at all because I’d love him/her less, but because he will have a harder time in life than if he were straight, everything else held equal. He might even be happier if he were gay (adversity builds character…?) but he’s life would probably be harder.

So for women who are very short, and wanting to have children with the guy, they might be more picky about height…? Maybe something evolutionary about this, like how men are just attracted to a certain waist hip ratio. Just a thought.
The InBetweener 41

@ Starthrower68 #29

Um, that’s a pretty glib attitude to have. Just because you feel you have not been successful at weight loss, does not mean you are undatable. I look forward to reading your comments on this blog most of the time (although you don’t post as frequently as I’d like you to) and having that attitude does not fit into the picture I’ve painted of you.

As someone that is 66″ (according to my doctor) I’ve dated women taller and shorter than myself, as well as bigger and smaller than myself (weight wise). Only because I’m attracted to MOST type of women – always have been, regardless of height. I’VE always found height to be a non issue. The tallest I’ve dated – 5’9-5’10 for years with no issues at all. Here’s the kicker – 90% of the women I’ve dated have been the aggressors – approached me. How bout that? Guys are attracted to taller women, they might not always admit it.
Let’s take this for example: http://www.lucylawlessfanclub.com/duets/lucycarlyal.jpg
I’m about his height. If she was single, would I date Lucy Lawless? Damn right. With a passion.
K 42

@36 and 37. I relate and understand. I’m slightly above average in height, but for most of my life I preferred much above average height men. My brother, my dad, my first love, my best friend, etc have all been over 6 feet tall. In my 30s I’m being more open-minded and flexible. Last year I took away height requirements and was not at all attracted to men below average height. So I went back to average height. I’m giving another shorter man a chance next week. I’d love to be attracted to more men, but I can’t force it. Likely I’ll have some height requirements (luckily for looks or whatever I have tons of 5’10 plus guys contacting me still). I try to open up and experiment on as many criteria as possible. But as I have learned from knowing myself and practicing dating taking this site’s advice as inspiration is best (not a rule). You can’t change everything about your wants (changing one is great!). From trial and error I know low ambition, low preference for education, and lack of curiosity about world isn’t going to work. Try/adjust is all I can advise. No matter what logical post one peron presents I’m not going o want to kiss a guy shorter than me. From my married friends I’ve seen them compromise on some things for sure, but generally most are with the kind of people they generally prefer.
Deborah 43

At the risk of being attacked for not being open-minded as people think I SHOULD be, I agree with Morris#38 and Laine#28 – I can’t help who I am attracted to. At 5’2″, I’m also not offended by Chris#34′s comments about a gal like myself just not being sexy in his eyes – I respect his wishes, I’m not here to convince him that gals my size can be sexy, I’m not here to convince him that MY opinion is the same opinion he needs to have right now or else he’s doomed. That being said, I played out my earlier online dating days by meeting a slew of men 5’5″, 5’6″, 5’7″, gave them a chance, went on a few dates – I have to admit, when a few of them stood up, and I was wearing my boots, I was disppointed. For me, it’s a protection thing – call me Cave Woman, but I like my man to be larger than myself so that I feel safe and protected in a public place. It’s basically the same reason why I prefer a larger, beefier guy over a thin build. Perhaps it’s simply the short men that chose me – I found them being “yes” men, where they agreed with everything I said, did not take their own stance…they were more attracted to me than I was to them. In the end, I did something unusual I’m sure, I lied about my height and added a few inches so as to deter the 5’2-5’6″ population, and it hasn’t stopped some. That doesn’t go without saying that if I was attracted to the guy, my preferences would go out the window, and I would still date him despite the height. Currently, I am seeing a guy 6′, one 5’9″, and one 5’8″, so I’m really not feeling the pain of being a little picky at this time. If none of these men work out, and I go thru a dry spell, I’ll obviously adjust my preference.
Jenna 44

Hmm .. one thing I don’t understand is people who lack a certain quality, yet demand their partner have it. I think wanting a rough equal is very valid unless you are an outlier in some area, and at that point you have to be more flexible about dating a little down in that area. So to me it’s outrageous if a short woman wants a 6 foot man, it’s reasonable for a woman to want a man at least her own height or an inch or two taller if she’s of relatively average height, and those women who are 5″10 or 6 feet may have to be more flexible in dating someone an inch or two shorter. My own mother is 5″11 and married a 5″9 man.
What seems more broadly relevant in this whole issue than specific, isolated traits – height, hair color – is overall attractiveness. If you are an attractive, in shape woman, it’s reasonable to seek out someone who is the same. If you’re an average looking woman, it is not as reasonable to insist on an attractive man. Conversely, if you’re a woman who’s a 9 or 10, it may be hard to find a guy who’s a 9 or 10 who’s really compatible – now you’re more of an outlier – so you may want to look for someone simply attractive but not super hot. Height can figure into that, though it’s not as much of a non-negotiable for me as it is for some here.
But overall, I’ve met with nothing but disaster when I ended up dating people who were too far apart from me in attractiveness.
JB 45

I’m not going to lie as a guy who’s 5’10″ my Match search caps out at 5’8″ but I rarely email any over 5’7″because I know it’s basically a waste of time. No women over 5’7″ rarely or ever initiate contact with me either. I would prefer a woman 5’6″ or shorter but nothing’s etched in stone. I’ve been with enough women to know who I physically feel more comfortable with. It’s the women that have to wear high heels and are only too happy to put in their profile ” I’m 5’7″ but in heels which I wear all time I’m 5’10″ so you have to be at least 6′ “bla bla bla that aggravate us. The world is the way it is everyone’s attracted to what they’re attracted to. You can tell them to have an open mind but sadly in the end most people would rather be alone than be with someone they don’t find physically attractive for whatever reason.
Mark 46

This is my FAVORITE topic!!!
And the MOST irritating aspect of online dating.
I’ve seen everything from “Please be at least 6′ tall” ,
“Please be at least 6′ tall because I need to feel safe with my man”.
And mind you a lot of these women are less than 5′ 8″ ??? WTF?
I’m 5′ 8″ – REALLY???? 4 inches? That’s how you make your initial determination? Based on ONE criteria as to whether you’ll EVEN talk to someone?

If I wrote MY profile and said “Please be Skinny and have huge boobs!”
Do you know how much CRAP I would get?
Interestingly – both these things CAN be changed, but I cant’ change my height.

See I told you this was my favorite topic.
By the way – when I read things like this it already tells me all I need to know about the woman.
You’ve just filtered yourself. Another great aspect of online dating. Sometimes people save you the trouble and filter themselves.
Peace out!!!

And women say men are shallow??? REALLY???
Em 47

Thank you for posting this article, EMK! I’m a 5’9” woman who has always dated taller men, but recently met a guy who is a few inches shorter than I am, and he’s smart, cute, kind, etc….and my knee-jerk reaction was to not give him a chance because of our height difference. But then I realized that my discomfort was really based on what I thought it would look like if we walked down the street together…and that that was silly, because if we are happy, who cares? I decided to be more open-minded and I’m so glad I did, because this guy is great and a real catch! It’s not to say that tall women must go out with men who are shorter than they are if they aren’t feeling an attraction, but after a few dates I realized I was actually very attracted to this guy and I would have missed out on someone truly wonderful had I not given it a shot.
Karl R 48

Cat5 asked: (#37)
“But, seriously — are you being deliberately obtuse?”

Are you?

If you look carefully, you’ll notice that I answered my own question in the following sentence.

Now it would be appropriate for you to slap yourself in the forehead and say “Doh!”

Sparkling Emerald said: (#36)
“I don’t care about height, and I used to rag on my gf’s who did, but if it comes down to what you are attracted to, you can’t force yourself to feel something you don’t.”

I’m not attracted to most women who are in their late 50s, but I find my wife attractive. I’m not attracted to most women who are obese, but I’ve met a few exceptions. I’m not into the bleach blond look, but I’ve met a few women who I’d make an exception for.

If I don’t find someone attractive, that’s the situation. But I’ve never looked at a woman and thought, “She’s attractive … but her breasts are too small.” Either she’s attractive or she’s not. I’m not going to talk myself out of finding her attractive by focusing on one feature.

Deborah said: (#43)
“For me, it’s a protection thing – call me Cave Woman, but I like my man to be larger than myself so that I feel safe and protected in a public place.”

And that’s why the president’s protective detail is made up of former NFL linebackers.

Oh wait … it’s not. It’s made up of crack shots who wear body armor.

Buy a gun. Learn how to use it well. Get a concealed carry permit (or whatever permit is appropriate where you live). Wear Kevlar whenever the weather permits. Not only will you be far safer than you would with a large boyfriend around, you will also be just as safe when he’s not around.

Or you could delude yourself into thinking that tall men are bulletproof. Let me know how well that works in an actual emergency.
Greg 49

Well.. i am 6 ft 2 in… and in ‘shoes’ i guess i approach 6 ft 3 in. Obviously, I never have had a problem with being ‘short’. However, m.y taste tend to be taller.. My ex was 5ft 6′ and recently dated a woman who was 5’1”and found her too short and petite. It felt I was dating a jr hr girl. My current girlfriend is 5’11” and 150 lbs and visually slender… though some would say she is an ‘amazon’ type of woman.
A good friend of mine (woman) told me “honey, we all the same height in bed’ … She had a point and imagination, charm and passion can all be factors on attraction and potential for long term relationship.
Even being tall, 50% woman I have tend (within 3 weeks) have a makeover plan: teeth, haircut, furniture, bags under the eyes (I am 57). I do think its in their DNA to ‘improve’ their man; typically I have acknowledge what they think and feedback is a gift. Then in a teasing mode, I suggest something similar to their ideas (butt lift, lose 10 lbs, cooking skills, show more cleavage,etc). Some get it, most don’t and I have moved on from them.

I do listen, though, as after 27 yrs of marriage, my game does need to be updated. I just dont like to hear it when we have pillow talk or she is between my legs , trying to have a ‘conversation’ as she feel she has my undivided attention. LOL I try not to take it too seriously as the battle of sexes have been going on for generations. How you pivot and leverage is the talent I am refining.
Goldie 50

Guys, it’s not about being open-minded or closed-minded. It is about missing out on quality people because we are evaluating them using the wrong metrics, so to speak.

Let me give you an analogy. Say you need a new car. You can look at the car’s reliability, gas mileage, cost of maintenance, how the car will perform in the conditions that you’re going to use it in, will the car hold as many people/cargo as you need it to hold, etc. Or you can look for a pink car with heated seats, because hey, you can’t help what you like and you like the color pink and warm seats. Now which of those two strategies is more likely to result in you buying a quality car, that will last you a long time without breaking down? Notice, I’m not saying you won’t be able to find a pink car with heated seats, or that there isn’t a chance that a pink car with heated seats will also happen to be a reliable car with good gas mileage. I’m just saying that you’re more likely to get the important things if you look for the important things first. The rest is optional.

(Ding Ding Ding: we have a winner! – EMK)
starthrower68 51

InBetweener I don’t fight the system I just go with it. :-)
Ellen (Rebekah) aka redheadinDixie 52

There is a dating website for women interested in tall men only. Check it out. lol
I am 5’6″ and for many years gravitated towards average height men, even shorter men, ’cause the men in my family tend to be short. I think it is what you’re used to maybe. And the celebrities I had the biggest crushes on as a teen were short men like Harvey Keitel.
And when younger I found myself avoiding super tall men ’cause I felt subconciously I think that he could do major damage if we fought physically.
I also found, like Zina, when a teen and dating that shorter men just tried harder to compensate. They were uniformly almost more attentive, fun, etc.
Then when I started online dating a few years back I dated a few tall men and found myself getting turned on by it. I do like the height differential- a lot! It’s very primal like a poster related. And like another poster, chubbiness puts me off as well…..
Lia 53

I am 5’ 5 1/2” tall. I can’t say that I have ever dated anyone shorter than me but I have definitely been attracted to shorter guys. When I was in high school there was a guy who was about 5’ 2”. He wrote in my yearbook, “I don’t know why you and your friends are so nice to me.” Really? I thought, “Geez buddy, get a mirror.” We all had a crush on him. (Even my younger sister remembers him and believe me high school was a long time ago.)

I feel fortunate because I actually have a strong preference for men UNDER 6’ tall. I find the body proportions of men under six foot, generally speaking, to be more aesthetically pleasing to me. I also have a very strong preference for men within a few inches of my hight. In my opinion bodies line up better for… everything, if there is not a big hight discrepancy. (This does not mean I would not date a guy over 6’.)

I have a niece who is 6’2” and a very confident, beautiful woman. For several years she dated and lived with a guy who was 5’10”. I will tell you that after spending a little time with them you no longer noticed the hight difference. (Even when she was wearing heels.) Because they were so well matched.

Oh and that guy from high school… I saw him at the mall a couple of years after we had graduated and he was with a girl taller than me. It was obvious that they had no problem with her being taller.

@ Karl R # 35

Thank you for addressing that ridiculous “Napoleon Complex” bullsh*t.
kiesh 54

Height falls under physical attraction. People who don’t want to date obese people don’t want to do so because they aren’t attracted to them. Lets not pretend that it’s about health. I’m just not physically attracted to 5’7 and under men. 5’8 is pushing it. ALL of our preferences shrink our eligible pool. So what? Who are these women that can turn physical attraction on and off like a switch just to have more options?
Lia 55

@ Kiesha #54

My sister once gave me a jar of peperoncini. A few days later she asked if I had tried them. I told her no, I said I didn’t like them. She asked if I had ever had them. I had to admit that I hadn’t. She told me to try them. I was positive that I would hate them. Turns out I loved them.

Now before you jump on me for comparing the two (attraction to men and what I like to eat… hmmm…) I am just saying that maybe there is a possibility that we don’t know ourselves as much as we think we do. Maybe the that’s-just-the-way-I-am gets in the way of moving forward in life.

No one wants you to date someone that you have no attraction to. But what if we didn’t look for that instantaneous knee jerk reaction to a set-in-stone criteria. What if we didn’t think we knew everything about how it “is” and were just open to discovering what might be.

Maybe you would find that attraction can grow while getting to know someone outside your height requirements. Maybe the guy that is best for me does not have my same spiritual path. We all have areas where we have been unwilling to bend in the past and we defend these criteria vehemently. But to what purpose? If we are still single and alone then how is this serving us.

I think it would be so funny if you let go of your height requirements, dated men who were shorter than you normally would, found that you liked them, and then one day the 6’3” love of your life shows up simply because you aren’t desperately hanging onto that requirement.
cat 56

I agree with Kiesh (54)…”Who are these women that can turn physical attraction on and off like a switch just to have more options?”
Ruby 57

Hasn’t the option of online dating influenced our preferences quite a bit? Prior to online dating and personals ads, you mostly met people IRL. If I thought a 5’8″ man was attractive, he was attractive. I wouldn’t have thought, “Hmmm, here’s a profile of this other guy who is 6’2″, maybe he is more manly.” In fact, I didn’t really think about the shorter man being too short if I was attracted to him. I also wonder how much we are influenced by our fathers; mine was on the short side, so maybe that’s another reason why I’ve been open to shorter men, despite being taller myself? The men in my family have had heights ranging from 5’6″ to 6’4″, similar to the men I’ve dated.
nathan 58

Physical attraction and the willingness to act upon it are, at least in part, shaped by social conditioning. We’d like to act otherwise, but it’s just not the case. Until recent decades in the US, dating across racial lines was either taboo or frowned upon. Same is true for same-sex attraction. The standards of female beauty, for example, were set by white men, who placed a certain subset of white women before the general public as “beautiful.” At times, such as the late 18th and early 19th century, it was the curvy woman who today is often considered “fat.” Other times, it was the ultra thin woman. Regardless, what you saw were men of the generation conforming, at least to some extent, to the standards put forth. Two hundred years ago, a thin woman was considered sickly and unattractive, even if she was actually quite healthy and good looking. The opposite is more the case today, as larger women often struggle solely because of their weight and body structure.

The whole tall man thing is, in my view, tied to men as being protectors and providers. That’s a story fed to us for generations, until it became accepted as the norm, even though other societies throughout history have had other arrangements, and other features deemed “attractive.” So, while I wouldn’t expect people to change their attraction per se, it’s not fixed and shouldn’t be viewed as such. Preferences are a choice. Even if there is a biological element to it, it’s still a choice. Human’s override biological desires all the time.

I agree with Ruby that online dating has heightened this issue (pun intended In one case, I was told point blank that being 5′ 11″ instead of 6′ was the reason she rejected me. We’d never met. Only exchanged two e-mails. What the hell does one inch matter? Even if she was lying to me about the reason, the fact that she even brought that up demonstrated some hyper height consciousness on her part. And no doubt, some men are doing the same with taller women. They’ve bought into the idea that they’re not “manly” enough – whatever that means – unless they tower over their partner.

In the end, I think more flexibility on minor traits like this is best. Cut your dating pool on things that really matter in the long run.
Helen 59

Vanessa #2 had it right from the start, and I would have made that point myself if she hadn’t already done so. Both the Jezebel article and Evan’s article are written implicitly as though it were purely the women’s preferences that led to this height differential in married couples. In reality, it is probably more the MEN’s preferences that drive this phenomenon; because men do most of the proposing after all.
Karl R #35 wrote: “I’m married to a woman who is at least 10″ shorter than me. I’ve dated a woman who was at least 12″ shorter than me. Why is the height difference more awkward for you than it is for me?”

Um, Karl… the simple answer is that you don’t have breasts. It is genuinely awkward to be walking around with someone whose mouth level is right around your breasts. Even if they’re KIDS. I’ll leave it at that.
A 60

I’d just like to add, my brother is 5’6″ and seems to be passed up quite a bit by women his age (27), he does great with the mid-30′s crowd, however. Maybe expectations have lowered and superficiality decreased by that point?
Anyway, my point is, he’s AWESOME. Funny, smart, driven, manly, can fix anything, and has a great job. It really is a shame he gets passed on because he’s such a down to earth, easy guy to get along with. A friend of mine he once dated told me is was so much fun in bed, too.
I get wanting a tall man, I really do. Dating a tall/big dude comes with a certain amount of perceived status in our culture. But that’s all it is, it means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Stick to height requirements if you like, but there is NO DOUBT you are passing up some really good men. If you think you can’t be attracted to someone less than a certain height, and I’ll probably get reemed for this, I believe you are dead wrong and really need to re-evaluate your priorities in finding a good man.
Put it this way, if your best friend ended up with a short guy and was the happiest you’d ever seen her- don’t tell me you wouldn’t want what she had- regardless of the dudes height.
Goldie 61

# 54, 56 ”Who are these women that can turn physical attraction on and off like a switch just to have more options?”

Oh you know, your usual desperate bunch that’ll throw themselves at anyone… haha not. Seriously though, I’m guessing they are the women who develop a physical attraction as they get to know a man better, based on his character, brain and personality, provided, of course, that he is not totally physically repulsive (which he probably wouldn’t be, as with his character, brain, and personality he’d know how to present himself and take care of himself).

Ruby – agree 100%. When I first started dating, in the 80s, you didn’t approach a guy with a measuring tape to see if he was within your height requirements. You met him IRL, you talked, you did things together, and decided whether you liked him or not. As long as you didn’t have to bend over to talk to him, you didn’t worry much about what his exact height was. It is so different with online dating, even though we all know half of those numbers are inflated.

Evan – aw, shucks *blushes*
Emily 62

What about the other way around? I’m 5’11 and find that a lot of dudes won’t date a taller woman. Who the hell cares? If you make me laugh, your height is a moot point.
Dora 63

Kari R – words like “stupid” are not appropriate at all here. Is not stupid to hold on for something you believe in. And I do believe that shorter than me men are simply not nice to be with- I do not feel protected and sheltered with him. When we are on the street and he wants to hug me…but in fact he can not even reach my shoulders-iuykkk… Or how about if he wants /or me/ to kiss spontaneously..- he will have to ask me or pull me down to his level- horrible.. and is not about how it looks for others,is about how it feel for me. And it feels not good at all. No matter how much I try to forget about hat and focus on some good in him..
And Yuri – easy to talk when your man is taller than you. Way to easy to talk. I would love to hear what would you say if the same man was short and you looked at him from above..
And I will tell you all something from nature and animals. In fact, a very respectful dating coach and author was relating to Horses for comparison anyway.. So, I have those two awsome friesian stallions- one is huge- 180 cm tall,the other is short 155cm. I put that mare who is tiny and compact with…of course – the small 155cm stallion,in a yard to do the mating. At the same time the big guy is 15 m away behind electric fence and keep “talking” to them 2 in the yard.. This mare kicked the hell out of the small stallion, he was young and keen,but she indimidated him to max. At the end I didn’t have a choice, I put her with the big boy and… she stood there like a trooper,her legs bending under his weight,but she was taking it. she fell pregnant of course after that too. I observe this behiviour all the time…- have miniature stallion- his little mini mares hate him,he runs away from them and stick’s with the big black mares. The mini mares though go and stay next to the above mentioned huge stallion.
So,Evan and everybody, no matter how much we scratch our tongues here and call each other ugly names like – shallow or stupid..bla,bla…- SIZE MATTERS,BIG TIME. Always did in nature with the animals and will always do.
John 64

Jenna @12,

Height isn’t a huge issue for me, but one thing that irritates me is men who don’t work out regularly. If I’m thin and work out five times a week, why do I have to settle for a flabby guy or a guy with no muscles?

As a guy who works out regularly and has a good phjysique, I applaud your thinking. So many people don’t realize (usually the ones who dont work out or the ones who do work out with lousy results) that being fit is a lifestyle. Not an activity. Those same folks also have a silly assumption that if you are in shape and go to a gym that you are a “gym rat” and “live there all the time”. And that is so not true. If you work out 4x a week for an hour each time, thats way less time than most people watch TV or surf the net. And if someone can’t find 4 hours a week to stay fit to look good, then you surely do have a right to not be attracted to them. I am sure I will get slammed so watch my back on this one.

As for the height thing, this is music to my ears. I am 5’9″ and never had a shortage of women to date. There are many women that have no problem with 5’9″. The ones that require 6 feet, I just chalk it up to nothng I can do about it. But I do feel bad for the shorter guys because they do get ruled out quickly and they cant do anything about it.
Angie 65

I’m just going to throw this in: I’ve met some very attractive shorter men, but there is a sect of short men who can also be aggressive towards shorter women. I’m 5’3 (on the tall end of short), but my best friend is 5’0. I recall many evenings out in the bar where we’ve had short men circling us and looking for opportunities to cut in. Also, I have a huge responsiveness on online dating from men who claim to be 5’6-5’7.

As much as I want to agree that there are some picky women, there is a sect of short men who are very aggressive about marking their territory. (#shortgirlproblems )

On the other hand, I have many male cousins/uncles/brother and friends who are in the 5’6-5’7 category and do just fine. I don’t even notice that some of them are “small” b/c they are fairly sturdy in their build. I think that attractiveness is based on coolness and confidence, and I think that while a stigma exists, buying into it perpetuates other unattractive qualities in short men and probably a lot of women.

I don’t know too many men who are smaller than me, but I have quite a few tall female friends – 5’7-5’10 – who have found happy relationships with men of the same height as me. I don’t think I would be happy with a “my size” guy, though… I weigh 115.
John 66

Sparkling Emerald @36
I know my dating pool is shrunk because I am an a-cup.

Don’t fret. Boob size is overrated. I have no problem with “a” cups at all. Just as long as they are sensitive. Thats all that counts. If I see a girl with big fake boobs, the first thought in my mind (well maybe the second thought) is “would she even know if I was playing with them?”
Karl R 67

Helen said: (#59)
“Karl… the simple answer is that you don’t have breasts. It is genuinely awkward to be walking around with someone whose mouth level is right around your breasts.”

I have a penis and a pair of buttocks. When I stand on the bus and train, everyone who is sitting down has their mouth at or near the level of my penis and arse.

In 25 years of riding the bus and train, I have never had a person begin engaging in an act of fellatio or anallingus just because their mouth happened to be at the same level. Not one person has made an attempt. Not one person has made a suggestive comment.

What kind of creeps are you walking around with where they’re causing some issue? Maybe the problem isn’t the height of the person but the quality of their character.

And if it’s not their actions that are making things awkward, you are really uptight. Uptight people limit their options, because they’re not particularly fun to be around. It’s worth making some effort to fix that flaw.

kiesh and cat asked: (#54 & 56)
“Who are these women that can turn physical attraction on and off like a switch just to have more options?”

Who are the people who can turn their physical conditioning on like a switch in order to run a marathon? Who are the people who can turn their appetite off like a switch in order to lose 40 pounds? Who are the people who can turn their brain on like a switch in order to pass the bar exam?

Every single one of those takes time and effort. If you put some time and effort into changing the way you see people, you can find more people attractive.

But in each example above, it’s easier to throw up your hands and cry, “It’s not possible,” rather than put in the time and effort to actually accomplish something. The doesn’t change the fact that lots of people have already proven that it is possible.
Peter 68

@ Jenna 12 @ John 64
Working out does not guarantee thinness but otherwise I agree with you. Even as an international (British home internationals so US state) athlete I never got below a 24 BMI. Big and ugly is big and ugly.
I agree with the lifestyle issue. Thin people who don’t work out are not that way because of health consciousness.
I don’t see many short men in the gym. Intimidating environment?
K 69

@John I don’t knock you, you like fit. That’s totally fine. I’m usually the spin/pilates fairly fit type. Currently less due to an injury, but as size 4 I tend to still do okay with most fit guys (maybe not the ones that want super fit). I like taller. I do date 5’9, but my pref as I have talked about above is taller b/c I find it sexier. But luckily being fit is not a criteria for me. I may not date the 5’7 guy, but I will date the out of shape guy, the guy with a little beer belly etc. Most of my gfs are opposite. So I think as long as we don’t need perfection in every area we have a shot:).
Helen 70

Karl R: I’m not hanging out with creeps. And what happened to you? You’re the one acting uptight here, judgmental and humorless with these comments, in addition to accusing others of stupidity and having flaws they need to fix without knowing any of us.

More relevant to this entry: In another post, I had posited that height in men is a proxy for something else, which is income. Several studies have shown that taller men earn more money than shorter men, and that salary increases on average with every additional unit of height. It’s largely men that set salaries for men in today’s world (that will change soon), so one could argue that men have a height bias as well directed toward their own sex. Meanwhile, if women prefer men with more resources, then it stands to reason that they will seek taller men, who in society typically have more resources.
Angie 71

@ Karl

“I have a penis and a pair of buttocks. When I stand on the bus and train,everyone who is sitting down has their mouth at or near the level of my penis and arse.”

That’s not a fair comparison. Women aren’t turned on by this stuff. Have you ever seen a group of women spy a man in a speedo on the beach? It’s usually received with laughter or averting their gaze. Men will happily stare at women’s chests whether they are on display or not.

I’m also reminded of a memory from working in retail. Anytime one of our male coworkers asked for our opinion on his look, as long as he looked sharp, put together, etc, all the female employees would say “You look great”. When male coworkers were assessing the females trying on clothes, they’d say “Sure, it’s not bad, but it’s not really doing anything for you” (implication: showing off t&a) and would suggest something more curve-enhancing or showy, even if you told them “It has to be conservative. It’s for the office/job interview/hanging out with parents, not the club”. Male minds think differently.

I don’t necessarily think any of this buys into the whole height argument, but I’d believe a tall, busty woman when she says her breasts are at eye level with shorter men.
Morris 72

I’m kind of surprised at the number of posts. It’s just a preference. I totally understand how a woman would find a taller man attractive. There is something masculine about being tall. Men, don’t you find a woman with curves attractive? There’s something about breasts/hips/butt that makes a woman seem more feminine right? But let’s get real. In the long run being tall isn’t going to matter all that much. Just like those curves won’t matter all that much in the long run either. Heck there are disadvantages to being tall as you get older just as age takes a toll on curves.
If a woman would rather be single than be with a great man that isn’t 6′ so what? As long as the woman doesn’t complain about a lack of good men and understands it’s her preferences that account for her dating options.

I think the issue with online dating is real though. When people meet naturally a lot of the ‘preferences’ go out the window. ’Opposites attract’ doesn’t happen in the online dating world right?
Nicole 73

Totally off topic but I feel like the kid in the picture looks like a younger version of Evan…
Morris 74

After posting I realized ‘opposites attract’ can very well happen online if two people happen to be looking for their opposites. What I meant was dating outside preferences doesn’t happen online.(Since we’re all filter based on our preferences.) But I think we’ve all experiences relationships that started offline that didn’t fit that mould.
Helen 75

Nicole 73: interesting observation. I think the kid in the pic looks more girlish than Evan, like a cross between Evan and Anne Hathaway. If I were his mother, I’d tell him to cut his bangs…

Morris 72: agree with you completely, all parts. Each of us likes what he or she likes, and as long as he or she isn’t complaining, it’s not really anyone else’s business.
The InBetweener 76

@ Starthrower68 #51

Oh No! You can’t be serious! Not cool.
Girl in the Midwest 77

I agree with Morris @72. If a girl is complaining about her dating options, then one of the pieces of advice would be to date men who were shorter, fatter, older, etc. Similar advice for a guy (date taller, fatter, older). I don’t see it as right or wrong, I just see it as being pragmatic or not (and in many cases, it’s not pragmatic). But each person has to decide what they are willing to give up in order to get height.

The thing I have to admit about height though, is that it’s unchangeable. And that really sucks. I mean, weight isn’t always 100% within in one’s control, but it is controllable up to a degree. So it seems like if a woman wants to make herself more physically attractive, she has more options. Make up, lose weight, better clothes, etc. But so much of male physical attractiveness is height, which is unchangeable.
Some other guy 78

I’m 6′ 2.5″ tall, and my former spouse was 4’11″ (that’s a 15′ 5″ difference for the math challenged); I can’t remember a time when it served as a even a remote impediment, and in fact generated a lot of “Aww, so cute” responses. It never once even remotely got in the way of the relationship – it just never came up unless she needed me to reach for something from a higher shelf. So cute

But I’m a guy who finds tall girls particularly attractive – I dream of 5’10″ Angie Harmon – but have always been clear that height is eclipsed by so many other things that it isn’t even on the list of things that matter to me (when I had a Yahoo! Personals profile, I selected no preference for height).

I guess I’m lucky that at least one irrelevant factor doesn’t matter to me.
Sparkling Emerald 79

Karl R – Why the hostile response ? I said that I DON’T have a problem with height. I said I used to rag on my gf’s who did, but now I have backed off. Are you really so insecure about women having different opinions than you, that you can’t accept a woman who SHARES your opinion about height but ALLOWS other women to have theirs ? Do you really expect me to start re-ragging on my gf’s because they don’t share YOUR opinion.
I once had a friend who ragged on me, because I don’t date smokers. She said I was being ridiculous to “base a relationship” on weather or not a person smoked. It didn’t feel nice to have a gf try to dictate what I “should” date, and to make me wrong for it. So I stopped telling my gf’s who they should be attracted to. Why does that evoke a hostile response from you ?

For the women who aren’t attracted to men based on height (I guess it’s OK for men to reject short women) , for all any of us know, they might be open to other characteristics that many other women reject. So there could be several women with approx the same size dating pool, but there are just different types of men in each pool. Maybe the the woman who likes men taller than her, doesn’t mind bald, or a few extra pounds, or a different race. The women who couldn’t care less about height, might only want to date within their race. I knew a black woman who said she was having trouble with dating, and she told me she was having a hard time finding a black man who want to get involved with a divorced single mom, as the percentage of black people in our area is very small. I asked her if she was open to the idea of dating men outside of her race, and she said no, she only wanted to date black men. I didn’t rag on her about it, or scold her for “shrinking her dating pool”. Why should ragging on women about their criteria be acceptable ?
Cat5 80

Karl R. @ 67 said: “I have a penis and a pair of buttocks. When I stand on the bus and train, everyone who is sitting down has their mouth at or near the level of my penis and arse.

In 25 years of riding the bus and train, I have never had a person begin engaging in an act of fellatio or anallingus just because their mouth happened to be at the same level. Not one person has made an attempt. Not one person has made a suggestive comment.”

Karl R. – You have got to be kidding me?! There you are being obtuse and nonsensical yet again. Comparing what a man goes through and what a woman goes through when riding the bus or train is comparing apples to oranges. Let me start by saying this — I have never yet had a man tell me how horrible it was that when he was pawed or groped while on a bus or train, or in a large crowd or on a dance floor (and not by the guy they are dancing with, but other guys on the dance floor), etc. But, virtually every woman I know from 12 to 85 has a story about it happening to them, usually on more than one occasion. Perhaps men don’t talk about it because it doesn’t happen to them or they like it, I don’t presume to know the answer to that question. But, most women don’t like having stranger in a crowd grab and touch them, and most women have had it happen to them more than once.

Secondly, if you ride the bus and train so much, you should have noticed the increase in both the notices posted about groping and how to report it, the presence of security cameras that are catching it on tape, and if authorities can identify the men doing it, they are being prosecuted. Do you think the ad campaigns and increased security measures implemented by law enforcement and transit agencies are only because women are imagining it, and it’s the types of creeps women are “walking around with?”

You cannot be that naive to believe what you said in response to Helen.
Karl R 81

Helen said: (#70)
“You’re the one acting uptight here, judgmental and humorless with these comments, in addition to accusing others of stupidity”

I’m beginning to wonder whether a few of you are deliberately trying to come up with the stupidest possible excuse for your behavior. Is there a contest with a prize that I overlooked? There’s no rationality, no logic, no thought involved.

Helen said: (#70)
“More relevant to this entry: In another post, I had posited that height in men is a proxy for something else, which is income.”

On Wednesday I was approached by a panhandler (who I’ve run across periodically for the last 15 years). He’s about 6’1″. I think he mostly lives with his sister. I once heard him say, “If I had $10,000 I’d be set for life.” Apparently he’s unaware how much his sister pays to keep a roof over their heads.

Do you think this panhandler can support you just because he’s taller than me?

If you’re interested in wealth, choose a man who is wealthy. Don’t choose a proxy for wealth unless you’re looking to be disappointed. If you’re looking for intelligence, choose a man who is intelligent. Don’t choose a proxy for intelligence. If you’re looking for a man who is healthy, choose him based on his health, not a proxy.

And if you want me to treat you like you’re stupid, keep suggesting that people should select a mate by traits which are a proxy for the traits they actually want, instead of selecting for the traits they actually want.

Angie said: (#71)
“Men will happily stare at women’s chests whether they are on display or not.”
“I don’t necessarily think any of this buys into the whole height argument, but I’d believe a tall, busty woman when she says her breasts are at eye level with shorter men.”

Helen’s suggestion was stupid because, as you pointed out, it doesn’t buy into the whole height argument.

If a man is that much shorter than you, his eyes are on the same level as your breasts. If he’s substantially taller than you, he can stare down your cleavage unless you’re wearing a turtleneck.

The issue isn’t the height of the man. The issue is whether he can make eye contact with a woman, or whether he ogles her breasts. Does staring at a woman’s breasts become acceptable if it’s done at a sufficiently steep downward angle?

Sparkling Emerald asked: (#79)
“Karl R – Why the hostile response?”

What was hostile about my response to you? I disagreed with part of your statement, though I found most of it to be quite rational. (There are no shortage of statements on this thread that infuriate me out of their sheer stupidity, but yours wasn’t one of them.)

To reiterate the point I was making:
If I look at Roseanne Bare and say, “I don’t find her attractive, and part of that is due to her weight and age,” that seems to be perfectly sensible. If I suddenly decide that Christie Brinkley and Susan Sarandon are unattractive because they passed 50 and 60 (respectively), or Christina Hendricks is unattractive because she has exceeded some weight metric, then there’s something flawed with my reasoning.

Attractiveness (for men or women) doesn’t boil down to one thing. Most of the women who are drawn to tall men aren’t falling over themselves to date Manute Bol. So if they’re looking at the whole package, where does it make sense to arbitrarily rule someone out for being an outlier on one trait?

As you said, people may not have much control over what they find attractive, but if they’re ruling out numerous people before they even look at them, that’s myopic.
Sparkling Emerald 82

In a way, I find this amusing, about women “shrinking their dating pool”. As EMK says, men do what MEN want to do, not what women want to do. Men can reach out to any woman they want on most websites. I have rec’d e-mails from men out of my preferred age range, from smokers, and from men waaaaaay out of my geographic range. I e-mailed one man back, who lived on the other side of the country, and told him thanks for his interest, but I am looking for someone closer to home. He wrote back and said “distance doesn’t matter”. (I didn’t respond to that) I really don’t have many other hard & fast preferences listed, but I seem to get the smokers, who are young enough to be my son. If a man wants to reach out to a woman, he will reach out to the woman HE wants to reach out to, not the women he thinks have “given him permission” to reach out to them. I know 2 women who married men considerably younger, after saying “he’s to young”. These men pursued and eventually wed these older women. People think they have specific preferences, but sometimes meet someone, and they are surprised by who they end up falling for. I’ve seen it happen with age, I’ve seen it happen with desired occupation. I have a friend who said she would ONLY date men with “cerebral” occupations, she always went for the white collar alpha males. She end up married to a self employed roofer, they now run the business together. She provides the “cerebral” part of the business, he provides the labor. i haven’t really seen it happen w/ the height thing, but it probably does.
kiesh 83

#55 Lia – Why do you assume that I haven’t tried to date short men??? I have plenty of times. And I think I’m pretty realistic with my definition of short (under 5’8). I’ve tried many, many times to date men that I’m not physically attracted to (5’3ers and otherwise) and that attraction just never grew even after months of dating. Some of us DO know ourselves, pretty well in fact. Attraction either is or isn’t, you can’t trick yourself into feeling something you don’t. Well you can…and end up in a marriage where you only have sex twice every 6 months.
Sparkling Emerald 84

I don’t think it’s so much that women wake up one morning and say “Gee, I think I will refuse to be attracted to men with “X” quality. (X being any variable, not meaning X rated I think women discover a pattern of who they are attracted to, and after discovering a pattern can go with that. However, many women change, if they discover a pattern, and they keep getting hurt. My friend who would only date drop dead gorgeous corporate alpha-maies and kept getting hurt, ended up marrying a blue collar guy. (But he was drop dead good looking ! ) And many people, men and women both, have a long laundry list of “must haves” in a partner, and then they meet someone who shatters that list, and they fall wildly in love ! John Lennon said before Yoko, who always went for leggy blondes. Does she look like a leggy blonde to you ?
I guess I’m lucky, because I usually can’t put my finger on why I’m not attracted to someone (and sometimes why I am) I just know it when I see it. (or hear it, because I know voice has a lot to do with it) So since I don’t know much about specifics, I am not arbitrarily ruling out someone base on height, weight, hair color, income, etc. My real deal breakers are smoking and drug users, but I don’t think anyone, even the harshest critic would find fault with that. I also know that I don’t want a Long Distance Relationship, so I do have a a mileage range, and I know that I don’t want someone way younger or way older so I have an age range, even tho I don’t know the EXACT cut off for the age. I have men contact me who are slightly out of those ranges, but I’ll look at the entire profile, and make a decision based on that. I’ll look @ the pic, to see if it’s a yes or a maybe. I’ll check for deal breakers like smoking, being young enough to be my son, or living on the other side of the country. (If they don’t post a pic, I don’t reply) I’ll read the “about me” narrative to see if we have similar attitudes, goals, etc. (some of those narratives scream “I’m looking for a booty call”, so I ignore those, no matter how cute, non-smoking, age appropriate, geographically accessible he is)
Right now I have an e-mail flirtation going with someone a year older than my range, and about 50 miles further out than I specified. But he reached out to me, so I’m not going to write him off over 1 year and 50 miles. His pic was real cute, and his narrative seemed to indicate similar values & goals. I’m not too attached to the outcome, because I do think a 2 hour commute could be a problem, but since most of these e-mail exchanges end up going nowhere, I’ll keep this up, and see what happens. At least it gives me an opportunity to try out some new stuff from EMK’s Valentine’s day audio.
Helen 85

Karl R: Has the other Karl R suddenly disappeared and left this Mr. Hyde version?

You wrote: “I’m beginning to wonder whether a few of you are deliberately trying to come up with the stupidest possible excuse for your behavior. Is there a contest with a prize that I overlooked? There’s no rationality, no logic, no thought involved.”

I never said a thing about my own behavior. Many of the other women didn’t, either. You misrepresented us, and then attempted to call our behaviors stupid when, again, you know nothing about our actual behaviors. I’ve dated a 5’2″ man. I’m now married to a taller man. Men of any height can be good.

You also wrote: “And if you want me to treat you like you’re stupid, keep suggesting that people should select a mate by traits which are a proxy for the traits they actually want, instead of selecting for the traits they actually want.”

And if you want me to consider you a hostile fool, keep putting words in my mouth that I never stated. I never stated that anyone SHOULD select a mate by associated traits. I suggested that this might indeed be a phonemenon that is occurring. I didn’t place a value judgment on it either way.
Ruby 86

Studies have been done that show that taller men make more money because people assume that they are more intelligent and powerful, so they can get higher paying jobs. Obviously, this isn’t going to be the case with every tall man. There does tend to be a “halo effect” around attractive people, in general, by which we assume they possess certain positive character traits whether they actually do or not. It’s a common occurrence, but it’s also a good reminder not to judge a book by its cover. For what it’s worth, a couple of my 6’3″, good-looking exes were not high earners at all (despite being, in fact, very intelligent).
Sparkling Emerald 87

John 66 Said ” Don’t fret. Boob size is overrated. I have no problem with “a” cups at all.”
Hi John, I’m not fretting at all, I’ve accepted that men are very visual, and want what they want and will go after it. That pretty much shrinks my dating pool, since so many men are “T” men, but I’m OK with that. I really only want ONE man, and I want him to think I’m so freakin’ adorable, that he just HAS to pursue me from the get-go, rather than someone who is intellectually trying to talk himself into having a particular emotional re-action to my looks. I think that is the problem with this whole subject, you have people trying to give people a LOGICAL answer to why they “should” have a particular EMOTIONAL response.
I’m glad you have no problem with a cups (don’t know why, you are just a stranger on a blog), you are not alone, but you aren’t in the majority either.
If a guy likes glamourous “hot” women, most likely he won’t be attracted to me, because I am more “cutsie” in a girl next door way, than hot & glamourous. (I have tried different, hair, clothes & make up to try and glam it up, but I just end up looking like a cute little girl playing with mommy’s make up)
If a guy likes tall women, he won’t be attracted to me. Can’t do a thing about that. I wear heels, but I’m still short.
I know being a red-head is one of those love it or hate it. Sometimes I think I should go back to being a brunette, which is how I was born (now I am salt & pepper), but I LOVE being a red-head, so if it means shrinking my dating pool, so be it.
As discouraged as I sometimes get, I still hold on to some hope, that there is a guy out there looking for a petite, red-headed, a-cup, girl next door type, or maybe THOUGHT he was looking for someone else, but finds me and thinks WOW. I would be very upset, if I was getting involved with a guy, only to find out that he was trying to be “open minded” and give the cute, short, girl with tiny boobs a chance to increase his dating pool, when really what he wanted was a tall blonde super model looking girl with cleavage. Oh yeah, and when this guy finds me, I hope he’s someone I feel the same way back about. It really bums me out when a guy gets all over the moon for me, and I just can’t feel the same way back.
I am glad that match.com doesn’t have “cup size” as a question in what you prefer in your date.
Kristen 88

I just want to respond to the debate over whether using height as a criteria is “irrational” or “stupid.”

If you are a 6’0 tall woman like me, I don’t think it is irrational to prefer men who are tall. I am open to dating men of any height but all things being somewhat equal, I might use height as a factor in deciding whether to date a tall man over a man who was shorter than me. The reason is I get comments on my stature on an almost daily basis. Quite a few of these comments are, frankly, rude and insulting. When I have dated men who are significantly shorter, people cannot seem to stop themselves from making rude comments about our height differences. If you have never experienced being berated my complete strangers over your looks, maybe you can’t really understand that it can negatively affect your self esteem and it also can create stress in a relationship. But it’s not irrational or stupid for a tall woman to seek out a tall man in order to avoid constant public derision.
Lia 89

@ Kiesh

Okay, got it! You could never, ever, under any circumstances ever, ever, ever… (Is that enough “ever”s for you?) be attracted to a man under 5’ 8”. It is outside the realm of all possibility. And you DO know yourself. Good. So no question of you ever having to go out with guys that you will never, ever, ever be attracted to. Feel better now?

I wrote, “No one wants you to date someone that you have no attraction to.” How you went from that to responding with, “Attraction either is or it isn’t, you can’t trick yourself into feeling something you don’t. Well you can … and end up in a marriage where you only have sex twice every six month.” Is a bit of a head scratcher for me.

I never stated that you should “trick” yourself into anything. I just wondered if it was possible for attraction to grow if you didn’t feel it right off the bat. Obviously that was a silly notion. After all you DO know yourself, there is no way you could ever, ever be attracted to any guy under 5’ 8”. Got it. Moving on…

@ Sparkling Emerald # 84

I liked your post. I had things that I looked for in a guys profile. It wasn’t height, degree, or income but how their profile was written. (My sister calls me a word junkie.) If he could make me laugh and capture my interest how he looked got a lot of leeway. (Unless he looked like my dad.) I would also look at what he liked to read and what he wrote under the “Faith” part. Then I found out that there were guys who really wrote well but they were no good at the face to face. One guy seemed to have the same spiritual outlook on paper but in real life he didn’t.

I am taking a long look at myself and where my blind spots are. I really like what Evan said about women going for what they want instead of what they need. I can see that tendency in myself. My sisters and I have been looking at our list of must-haves with fresh eyes and we are wondering if we even know what would really make us happy. (From our past relationships I would have to say a resounding NO!)
Sparkling Emerald 90

Lia – 89
Glad you liked my post. I think it’s really rather silly how some men on this blog are so worked up over women who ask for specifics on our dating sites, or whatever. Since WHEN do men do what WE want ? They do what THEY want. I have very few things specified. I have a distance range, (50 miles) an age range and I have said under smoking preference for my date “No Way”. I get e-mails from smokers, guys young enough to be my son, and men from across the country. So while I agonized over what arbitrary number to set for distance or age, it doesn’t matter, the men who want to write to me, will write to me. Personally, I think some just look at the pics and send an e-mail to the ones that meet their looks requirements. I wonder if I am “shrinking my dating pool” by putting in an age range, but I know I don’t want to be old enough to be someone’s mother, or to date someone old enough to be my Dad. (In my younger years, I actually wanted a much older man, but now that I am much older myself, I really don’t want someone so much older) So I put a 20 year range, 10 plus or minus my age. So maybe there’s a GREAT guy 11 years older. Oh goodness, gracious, me, I just missed the opportunity to meet Mr Wonderful because I capped the upper limit arbitrarily at 10 years older than me. (Being facetious here) Doesn’t matter, if Mr Great Guy who is 11 years older and lives 51 miles from me, really likes my pic and/or profile he will reach out to me. Then I can look at his entire profile and see if that extra year, and that one extra minute commute really matters.
I know what you mean about guys who say one thing on paper, but in person it’s a different story. One guy said he had a sense of humor (but that’s basically what they all say, but he went on about it a bit in his profile) Well, if had a sense of humor, I certainly didn’t see it on our second (and last date) He just acted like he had a stick up his caboose. He also said his build was “about average” but I thought he had “a few extra pounds”, but I get that something like that is a matter of opinion, and I didn’t mind that he had quite a few extra pounds, but he did spend some time complaining about women who lie about their body type, and claimed that one woman turned out to be built like “Java the Hut”. (another turn off for me, who want to hear disparging remarks about an ex or a previous date ???? )
Helen 91

Sparkling Emerald 90: You are so right, every part, and your comments had me laughing here. Best of luck in your search.
Kiesh 92

Lia – Your entire argument is a head scratcher for me. Just because YOU are attracted to short men, you can’t possibly fathom that anyone else can legitimately not be attracted to them. There’s no right or wrong here. You conveniently ignored the part where I tried to date short men for months and attraction never grew. Also interesting is your need to speak in ridiculous absolutes. My point is that height is not some arbitrary number – it falls under physical attraction. You obviously don’t get it. I don’t understand why anyone thinks they’re the authority on what’s ‘acceptable’ or ‘wrong’ to like/dislike in a mate. It’s a good thing that we don’t need consensus or approval from others to validate what we like/don’t like. I’m not going to go back and forth on this. Like what you like – you don’t need other women to agree lol.
Lia 93

Sparkling Emerald

I think the key is being able to recognize what is important and truly finding out what it is we need. Prior to reading Evan’s blog I thought I knew what was important to me. After reading his blog and now looking back with new eyes on the choices I have made in the past, there are things that I had to re-evaluate.

Two years ago I went online and started dating. (It was my second foray into the world of online dating.) I received an email from a man whose profile was sparse and he didn’t look like someone I would be attracted to (not ugly by any means just not my usual taste). My sister insisted that I change my mind about meeting him (she can be relentless).

I met him and we started dating. I thought I was not attracted to him. Not repulsed by him, just no “spark”. Whatever combination of things have to be there in order for me to feel the “spark” (emotionally unavailable, self absorbed, no time for me…LOL) was not there. He liked me, he was obviously attracted to me, and he treated me better than any man ever had. He actually did boyfriend things, wanted to be exclusive, called and texted every day, took me out on the weekend, talked about the future, wanted me to meet his friends and his kids.

Oh yes, about that “no spark” thing… I sometimes give nicknames to guys I have dated in the past. (These are not names call them, but names that I will use sometimes when talking about them to my sisters.) His nicknames (he has two)… The Body Whisperer and Mr. Magic Hands. Without a doubt the best sex of my life… period. So much for “no spark”.

Of course I broke up with him. We really didn’t have a chance. I couldn’t see what was right in front of me and I was going through one of the most difficult times in my life and was not allowing myself to grieve.

The gift in this is knowing that I have been blind to my own best interests in the past and I could be blind to them again. I think that maybe being willing to question what I “know” and being open to changing those things that I do that do not work, might end up being my saving grace.
Kiesh 94

@ Sparking Emerald – that’s exactly it. ANYTHING can be deemed ‘arbitrary’ and reducing your pool. I say go for what you truly want. I find that people (read: men) only question it when they don’t meet the criteria. Women only question it when they settled or have different preferences and need consensus to feel good about their own choices. If you say you’re not attracted to x, they take it as a slight because they married x. It’s all so hilarious to me.
Sparkling Emerald 95

Keish – 94 - This time in dating, I am trying to draw a fine line between, “giving someone I’m not initially attracted to ‘a chance’ ” and “settling”. That’s why for me there HAS to be a certain baseline level of attraction to begin with. It doesn’t have to mean OVER THE MOON, or “Gosh, let’s get naked right now,’ cuz your so HOT”. But usually when I meet someone, it’s a DEFINITE YES, DEFINITE NO, or a MAYBE. I will give the maybe’s “another chance”, but not the Definite NO’s. I have maybe’s get bumped up to DEFINITE YES’s (I’ve had DEFINITE YES’s turn into NO FREAKIN’ WAY), but have never had a Definite NO turn into a YES or even a maybe. (So sad, because some seemingly sweet guys, that seemed to really be into me have fallen into the definite NO category) No one is doing ANYONE a favor by settling, because they are “of a certain age” and their Mom, sister, an online scold on a dating blog, told them that they were being to picky, and they should “open up” etc. I think people do end up settling for many reasons, one of them being all those societal voices saying there is something wrong with you if you aren’t married by now, you are being to picky, you are setting arbitrary standards, etc. etc. When people “settle” for someone they really weren’t into to begin with, everyone loses. And people fall in love with people that didn’t fit all their criteria all the time. But it is NOT because someone scolded them into it, but because they met that person, the magic happened, and they think WOW, this person isn’t USUALLY my type, but I just can’t help myself from falling in love with them. 30 years ago, if someone had told me I would have fallen in love with an unemployed carpenter, younger than me, shy guy, I would have thought they were nuts. But sure enough I did, and we had a good 10 or 12 years (married for over 20:( ) So just maybe, one of the tall women on this blog will end up madly in love with a guy exactly her height, and will be sheepishly telling us about it, but it will NOT be because she was shamed into it, or told her arbitrary height standards are STUPID, it will happen, because sometimes life & love just surprise us.
Karla (NineGPS) 96

So many of us live with blinders that keep us from love. When you start removing the rigid criteria for dating the universe has a way of sending amazing men in your world.

http://ninegps.ning.com/profiles/blog/list
Laine 97

Sparkling Emerald- you have hit the nail on the head. So well said.
Chance 98

Kiesh said (#94):
“I say go for what you truly want. I find that people (read: men) only question it when they don’t meet the criteria.”

That’s not true. I remember viewing women’s profiles online where they had put minimum income requirements that were more than twice what they made or had height requirements of around 8″-10″ taller than their own height. Even though I met those preferences/requirements, I was not interested in those women because their requirements were ridiculous. Many men are turned off by unrealistic requirements even if they happen to meet them. I’m not saying YOUR requirements are unreasonable (I have no idea how tall you are), but what I just went over might be something to consider when trying to attract the best possible mate.
Goldie 99

@ Helen #85, I was wondering the same thing! This isn’t the Karl R that I know, and, just like you, I am mystified (to put it mildly) by this new Karl’s posts on this thread! And I think I will leave it at that.

# 94: “Women only question it when they settled or have different preferences and need consensus to feel good about their own choices. If you say you’re not attracted to x, they take it as a slight because they married x. ”

Now where’s the logic in this? If you say you’re not attracted to x, and I like x, then more x for me, right? If you say you’re attracted to x, and I am married to x, then you’re one less person I have to worry about stealing my x The reason I’ve been posting on this thread is not to justify my choices (why would I do that when my bf is the most awesome guy in the world… puzzled), but to share my experience. I first started dating several decades ago, I was shallow, I ended up marrying a man that I had chosen for shallow reasons. Yes he was tall and good-looking, but we were pretty wrong for each other. Started dating again about three years ago. At first I, once again, had a long checklist. First man I met online that I ended up dating for a couple of months, fit my checklist perfectly. And yes, my checklist started with height, the man had to be at least six feet tall. Imagine my surprise when I realized that, even though he ticked off every single item on my checklist, he was still a douchebag of epic proportions. When he finally asked to be exclusive, I just didn’t have it in me to say yes. I asked if he could give me some time to think. Sure enough, I got yelled at, he asked what was wrong with me that I didn’t want commitment, and whether it was cultural (I am not originally from this country, so of course this awesome human being had to bring that up.) I looked him in the eye and said “I don’t understand it myself. You have everything I was looking for, but something is missing”. He drove home and deleted me from his Facebook, and I tossed out my checklist, which was apparently not working, and started paying really close attention to what Evan was saying on this blog, even when I didn’t like the sound of it. Turned out, my priorities were way off. I was filtering by the wrong things first. I changed my strategy, and here I am with the most awesome guy in the world. He may not be six feet tall, but he spent all his free time taking care of me when I had emergency surgery last year. You tell me which of the two is more important in a partner.

Re the “tall men are higher earners” theory — my last two jobs have been at major corporations, and at both places, the majority of people in upper management have been short guys. Not “an inch shy of six feet”, but really short guys. I have no idea why. Anyway, maybe there are professions where tall men end up being higher earners (modeling? pro basketball?), but I don’t see that happening in my line of business.
Lucy 100

I am 5ft 4″. I try not to be too picky on height but I know I probably wouldn’t have the hots for a guy shorter than 5ft 7″/8″ and I have tried. I really believe than any man deserves a woman who doesn’t “settle” on his height or feel less attracted to him because of it; just like I don’t want to feel that a man is gonna settle for my slightly dumpy physique.
I try not to be rigid about what I find attractive before I think myself out of relationships with good people. When I think about the men I’ve dated, often the better ones have all been men I wouldn’t pick out of a catalogue but I felt a good level of attraction for them which wasn’t at all forced. Euurghh I hate the idea of comparing men against each other on looks and it puts me on the fence about online dating. Preferences are what they are and we should let situations unfold.
I agree with Sparkling Emerald. It’s not fair to choose someone you have zero attraction to as a ‘safe’ option – completely demeaning to the man involved, unless he is aware of that (in which case he’ll be settling too).
Sparkling Emerald 101

Chance #98 – “That’s not true. I remember viewing women’s profiles online where they had put minimum income requirements . . .”
Ugh, I guess I shouldn’t fault other women for their preferences, but I don’t list my income (maybe because it’s pretty low), I don’t state a preferred income, and I don’t even at my matches income if they list it. If a guy makes enough money to pull his own weight, that’s fine by me. As long as he’s not homeless, or still living on a hide-a-bed in his parent basement, I don’t care. I completely don’t care care about type of job. Blue collar, white collar, etc. I do like men who own their own businesses, but I think it more because they possess a certain take charge, decisive attitude, and would have to be a self starter, and have certain desireable traits in order to run their own business, but I don’t make it a requirement. It’s a nice to have, not a must have for me.
I am more concerned with how someone handles the money that they DO have, and how generous they are will ALL of their resources, including, but not limited to money, but also their time and their talent. I would rather be with a mid-income, blue collar worker, who would spend all of his free time with me, and would spend his last dollar for the week on girl scout cookies, just to help out the kids, and volunteered his talents for a charity, then to be with a cheap, stingy, millionaire, who has it all, but won’t share any of it. (Of course a generous millionaire who wanted to share with me would be ideal
kiesh 102

@ Chance – Why do you get to decide that someone else’s requirements are “unrealistic?” You are free to reject those women for any reason(s) you choose, though. I just don’t see why people are so invested in other’s preferences.
@ Goldie – Why does everything have to be one extreme or the other? Being tall and a good guy are mutually exclusive? Women who like tall men are only capable of choosing jerks? Women who don’t date short men only date 6’0 and up? And they only want gorgeous hunks? None of these things are remotely true. It’s actually possible to be attracted to someone without having to think so hard about it AND they treat you well. Crazy, right?
Way too many assumptions being made in this discussion. I think we’re all clear that sticking to a rigid checklist in your search for love isn’t the best idea. I’m just saying that for some people height isn’t some arbitrary preference. And you have no idea which other characteristics are being overlooked/accepted.
No one is advocating acceptance of poor treatment in search for height. Let’s stop reaching, folks.
Karen 103

The height issue is very real for me. I am nearly 6ft2 with my Louboutains on. The problem is that alot of men get weirded out by this. I could date down but very few men have the Cajunas to date up. Also, my male friends tell me that my heels are important because I have especially good legs. If a guy is intimidated by my height, he is not the right guy for me. I am lucky, I get more than my fair share of 6 ft 3 plus characters. But, the shorter ones just don’t have any guts. They’ll look, stare, do triple takes but never come over even if I give them the 10 second “I am inviting you to come talk to me” return stare. At this point actually, I am very tempted to go over to the next man or group of men (whether in my heels or flats) and say, “now you boys have been staring at me for a while now but you’d rather huddle up together over your beer than come over and talk to a single woman. So, are you gutless or gay”? Seriously. What is wrong with these guys? And, don’t tell me that they are afraid of rejection because I am too, but I still keep getting out there and taking the punches. Taller men are just easier, more confident and less overwhelmed.
Goldie 104

@ Kiesh #102:

“Being tall and a good guy are mutually exclusive? Women who like tall men are only capable of choosing jerks?”

No to both questions, but these women are ruling out a large number of quality men based on an arbitrary standard. Oh well, as I said, more for the rest of us.
Lia 105

@ Karla (9GPS) # 96

YES!! That what I was trying to communicate but I think you did it better and with less words.

Goldie # 99

Thank you for the great post. I did not see the logic in the # 94 post either. If I like men under 6’ and other women don’t think those men are attractive those women are going to pass them up. I can’t see how that hurts me. And if I was in a relationship with a man who was 5’6” or 5”7” why would that mean that I had “settled”?

The thing that I find the most confusing is how vehement that objection is to even the suggestion that letting go of these rigid criteria might be a good thing. It is not like anyone has suggested that women should be open to dating a leprous, lecherous, leprechaun with three wives, a drug addiction and seven outstanding arrest warrants.

If someone writes that women should consider letting go of that 100k a year criteria. Suddenly it is all about how they are being asked to date some homeless guy without any job prospects. If the criteria is that a man has to have a bachelors degree or “better” and it is suggested that it might be something she could be flexible on, somehow that gets twisted into how they should date a drooling imbecile who can’t tie his own shoes.

How does being flexible on height so that they can open the door to more possibilities, translate into “tricking” themselves into “lowering” their standards and ending up married to a man that they find so disgusting that they would only have sex with “twice every six months”.

Maybe someone can explain that to me because I can’t wrap my head around it.
Chance 106

Kiesh said (#102):
“Why do you get to decide that someone else’s requirements are ‘unrealistic?’”
Well, in the context of what I was discussing (looking through women’s profiles online), I can decide whatever I want. Determining whether something is realistic or not is subjective, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. It isn’t like I’m sending them a message that says “You know, your height/income requirements are unreasonable and you should change them.” I simply ignore them and move on.
They certainly have the right to have those requirements. The point was that they may simply be pushing away suitable men that meet their requirements because they may come off as arrogant and entitled.
Lia 107

Keish # 92

“Lia – your entire argument is a head scratcher for me”

Of that I have no doubt. When I responded to your post # 54 I was not arguing with you I simply gave you another point of view to consider.

Let’s start from the top…

Keish # 54 you wrote you were not attracted to 5’7” and under men.

My post # 55 (paragraph #3) I wrote “No one wants you to date someone you have no attraction to” I wasn’t trying to “convert” you, I just wondered if you had considered the possibility that attraction might grow over time. It wasn’t an accusation or a put down.

Keish # 83 “why do you assume that I haven’t tried to date shorter men.”

Frankly Keish you didn’t say that you had. You wrote that you didn’t find them attractive. Now you have declared that you have dated them and it is duly noted.

Keish # 83 “attraction never grew even after months of dating”

Fair enough. You tried it and for you attraction does not grow over time.

Keish # 83

“Some of us DO know ourselves, pretty well in fact.”

Okay.

Keish #83

“Attraction either is or isn’t, you can’t trick yourself into feeling something you don’t.”

Who said anything about tricking yourself??????

Keish # 83

“Well you can… and end up in a marriage where you only have sex twice every six months.”

????? Again I wrote, “No one wants you to date someone you have no attraction to”

Keish # 92

“You conveniently ignored the part where I tried to date short men for months and attraction never grew.”

How could I “conveniently ignore” in post # 55, what you didn’t write until post # 83?

I did address it in post # 89

Keish # 92 “It is also interesting you need to speak in ridiculous absolutes”

LOL!!! I actually found this very funny coming from the one who wrote (in post #83):

Well you can… and end up in a marriage where you only have sex twice every six months.”

Keish # 92 “You obviously don’t get it.”

Back at ya!

Keish # 92 “Like what you like you don’t need other women to agree.”

LOL!! Thank you I now have permission to like what I like I am so relieved!!! If anyone asks I’ll say Keish says I don’t have to have permission to like what I like.
Lia 108

Chance # 98

I find myself doing the same thing you do. I look at a man’s preferences and I wondered if men looked at the preferences women listed. I wondered if those preferences made a difference to the guy looking.

When I was on Match I found that even when I fell into a man’s preferred age range it was a turn off if his preferred age range did not include women his own age (sometimes not even within five years of his age). I put ten years above my age and if I really find the man interesting that is not by any means set in stone. Maybe it shouldn’t matter to me when a man completely discounts women his age but it really does.
Sparkling Emerald 109

After reading this article, and all the bickering going back and forth about weather it’s OK for women to have a height standard, I started looking at my online matches, the men who are contacting me etc. I noticed a few men stated preference for women shorter than themselves. For some, it was just a numeric notation in the stats. Others put in their profile thing like ” I am short , so you must be too”. One man I went out with a few times, and he re-contacted me, has mentioned his short stature a few times. The first time we met, almost the first thing he did was look at my boots, not that they had a heel, and then stand next to me to compare our heights. Both of my hubbies were about 5’6″. I didn’t consciously select them based on height, but perhaps they selected ME base on height (consciously or unconsiously) It could have been a Pavlonian response to being overlooked by taller women, and getting a better response from the petite ones.
I know EMK strictly tells women how WE can change to find love, but it is still unrealistic to blame the height descrepency completely on women.
Before the internet, there really wasn’t a drop down box where you HAD to select numbers (for age, acceptable distance, etc) As far as I know, on my website, you MUST select something in the range. (Others have an option for no preference, but I don’t think height is one where you can select that. I do see where people will put a range of 3 feet to 8 feet as their way of saying no preference.
So women may be “shrinking their ONLINE dating pool,” when they feel compelled to select numbers from the drop down box , but by being online to begin with, they have greatly increased their pool to begin with. So most likely it is a net gain.
Also, most daters are still meeting people IRL, and so they could end up hitting it off with someone, not knowing their exact height, or having so much fun, they don’t care.

I am not really for sure about what selections can be “no preference” and which can be left blank, but next time I edit my profile, I will dbl check.
BGirl81 110

Ohmygod, that 5′ 1″ chick is ME. I realize that it’s completely and utterly ridiculous for someone who looks like the first female Mayor of Munchkinland to have their head turned almost exclusively by dudes over 6′ – so much so that I would frankly be too embarrassed to admit it to my best friend! Thank you for this Evan!
p.s. I once dated a guy that was a total douchebag. (Yes, a TALL bag of douche.) He went on and on to me about how hot a female friend of his was and ended with, “And she’s, you know, tall!” . I was outraged! Granted, I would never, ever in 20 million say something similar to a man of any height, but oy vey….pot meet kettle!
andy 111

Its understandable woman are more attracted men that are taller. But there many woman with unrealistic expectations. And Ive noticed that short woman are the worst about it. Ive met several woman who are like 5’1 and will only date men 5’10 and above… WTF? ill say +5″ difference a reasonable number, any more then that you have some issues.
BTW Im 5’11 btw so im not some angry short guy.
Chance 112

@Lia
Completely agree with you! You are right to be irritated by men who discount women their own age. People shouldn’t want what they don’t have. I think the age thing for men is like the income/height thing for women because it seems that’s often where unrealistic expectations come to the surface.
I have a friend who just set up a profile online and put in an age preference that didn’t include his own age. I talked him into adjusting it. I have to think that he would have come across as a total jackass to some of the women looking at his profile. Ha!
Lia 113

@ Bgirl81 # 110

OMG you are honest and hilarious!! “first female mayor of Munchkinland” LOL!!!
“Yes, a TALL bag of douche” LOL!!! “but oy vey… pot meet kettle” Thanks for the laughs you are delightful!
I must date her 114

Nice article. I agree with you especially about “Money matters”. Relations can get strained is very true.
Carrie 115

@Kiesh: Height and weight are not comparable IMO. Being overweight is a sign that a person is unhealthy, lacks motivation, self control, or any number of faults. Height tells you nothing about the quality of a person.
An apt comparison to height would be cup size. But as much as men are lambasted for their obsession with breasts, i’ve never met a guy not want to date me soley because of my A cups.
Lia 116

@ Chance #112

You did your friend a big favor. You are right he would have come across as a total jackass.

I know it’s been said before but I want to reiterate that though dating online has it’s undeniable benefits it does have it’s down sides. One of those being the unrealistic expectations.

Ruby # 57 wrote “Prior to online dating and personal ads, you mostly met people IRL. If I thought a 5’8” man was attractive, he was attractive. I wouldn’t have thought, ‘Hmmm, here’s a profile of this other guy who is 6’2”, maybe he is more manly.’ In fact I really didn’t think of a shorter guy being short if I was attracted to him.”

Nathan # 58 wrote: “In one case, I was told point blank that being 5’ 11” instead of 6’ was the reason she rejected me. We’d never met. Only exchanged two e-mails. WHat the hell does one inch matter?”

Goldie # 61 wrote: “When I first started dating, in the 80’s, you didn’t approach a guy with a measuring tape to see if he was within your height requirements. You met him IRL, you talked, you did things together, and decided whether you liked him or not.”

Now with online dating you can see a man’s height, his income, his profession, and his education all before you even meet him IRL. And then you can take this guy and compare him to other men you have never met IRL. You can make judgements about who he is before you meet him IRL. And yes men are doing the same to women.

Don’t get me wrong I do not have anything against online dating, but it is maybe wise to keep in mind that there are pitfalls to be navigated.
Goldie 117

@ Lia #105:

“If someone writes that women should consider letting go of that 100k a year criteria. Suddenly it is all about how they are being asked to date some homeless guy without any job prospects. ”

So true. All throughout this thread, I’ve been wanting to say… relax, girls, Peter Dinklage is already happily married and is not available! No one says you should date a man half your height, but 2-3 inches shorter is no big deal. (Two of my best dates were guys 5’6″ tall. I’m 5’9″. Of course, one of them said he was 5’8″, but gimme a break, I’m tall, not blind!)

#116 — I learned to take all numbers on a guy’s profile with a grain of salt. They could be quite far from reality, or the numbers could be correct, but the man himself could still be bad news… but he won’t say so on his profile. But yes, this is a downside of online dating — the way it is set up to work, the temptation is strong to approach it like shopping for a product that meets our requirements. I tried to concentrate more on what I consider the benefits of online dating, like being able to email and chat with the man in a relaxed, no-pressure environment, and to learn more about him before meeting him in person. Though I admit, when I saw a number like 6’3″ on a guy’s profile, it did generate kind of a blind spot. One of the last dates I had was with a guy whose profile said exactly that and who had a cute picture. Only as I was heading out the door, did I finally notice this on his profile “favorite books: lol not really into that stuff”… yikes, big red flag! It was too late to cancel, so I went and spent an hour with a guy who had, after high school, joined the Army to pay for college, then flunked out of college because he’d spent his entire freshman year playing tetris instead of going to class!… you get the general idea.
Steve 118

I’m 5 11. I’ve noticed that a lot of of women 5 2 gravitate towards me, so I found Evan’s post amusing. Yes, I’ve learned to watch where I step . Physically, I like women of most heights, up to my own. The killer for me is when a woman is my height and then wears high heels. I feel like a kid out with his mother.
Steve 119

@ Jenna, #12

Why is it a problem at all? If you don’t want to date out of shape men, don’t accept their invitations for dates.
I’m impressed that you work out 5 times a week. Do you feel like you are sacrificing other things? Keeping up with your career, reading, social time,etc?
Lia 120

@ Goldie # 117

I admit I had to google Peter Dinklage.

Aahh the little surprises of online dating. Favorite books is one of the places I always check.

Your post was great… as always.
Sue 121

I think what society really needs is for Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman to get back together. That’ll make everyone feel much better about the taller woman/shorter guy thing.
Anita 122

Sue@121: Except for Nicole herself. She’s said that the best thing about her divorce from Cruise is that now she can wear heels.
Nicole 123

@Sue, Katie Holmes is about as tall as Nicole Kidman, and Nicole Kidman’s current husband is actually a good bit shorter than her (although not as short at Tom Cruise). So I think the heels comment pre-dated her marriage to Keith Urban.
A lot of celebrity women have shorter husbands and boyfriends. Tina Fey isn’t a tall woman but her husband is much, much shorter than her.
So it’s not as if no one sees men with much taller wives who are also in the public eye.
ShortGirl 124

I’m 5 feet tall. I PREFER short guys. Who wants to talk to somebody’s belt buckle anyway?
Sparkling Emerald 125

Hi Short Girl
I’m not as short as you, I think I’m actually just a half inch shy of the average for women (I am 5′ 3 1/2″) I am getting just a tad irritated on the pressure being put on the taller women to go for the shorter men. HEY, then they would be cutting in on my territory. It seems that most of the men that go for me are about 5’6″ to 5’7″. If the tall leggy supermodels started going out with them, who would be left for me ?
Also, today at one of my meet-ups, I was talking with some of the girls and said there was a debate on weather or not women should go for shorter men. After everyone left, and I was helping the event hostess clean up, she shared with me that one of her husbands was shorter than her, and she would NEVER do that again, because he resented her being taller than he was. So in her case, she was open to his shorter stature, and he ended up having an issue with it. Go figure .
starthrower68 126

I mentioned this on the other “shorter guy” thread. I am 5’4 and the one who seems to be making the most effort and taking the most interest is 5’6. Obviously I don’t want to get too invested too soon but early indications are height will be no barrier to attraction for me
susan 127

I’ve always had a bit of a height thing, coming from a family where not one of the men is under 6 foot tall.
When my marriage ended and I made the foray into dating, of course I was naturally drawn to tallker men – even though my husband was only 3 or 4 inches taller than me.
So when I met my now partner, one of my big issues was that (at only a couple of inches taller) I would probably not be wearing high heels around him. I was really REALLY self conscious about it. He kept saying he didn’t care, I threw out all my high heels. Until I found a pair of black patent leather boots with 3 inch heels that I just HAD to have. I loved them, he loved them. I’ve since bought 3 more pairs of high heeled shoes, and realised, actually it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t.

I guess that’s part of growing up.
AS 128

Well said! I’m constantly challenging my female clients (dating agency) about this. The reasons that they state for wanting a tall man range from the men in my family are tall, to I won’t feel loved and protected when he is hugging me! And how does this play a major role in comparability! The way that I see it is that why would you want to restrict yourself to a pond when there is a sea out there. Finding a partner is challenging at the best of times, why would you create more obstacles that really don’t play a significant role when it comes down to being in a loving and healthy relationship.
Lia 129

@ Sparkling Emerald #125

I dated a guy who was 5’ 10” (I am 5’5 1/2”), he had issues with my height because his ex-wife was 4’10”. Then I dated a guy who was 5’9” and I ALWAYS wore heels when I went out with him and he LOVED it. So it depends on the guy.

I do “window shopping on Match. (Which means I skulk about with a hidden profile.) I have seen men 6’2” and 6’3” who have a top height for women around 5’8” or 5’9” – that is as tall as they are willing to date (Please note that these men are in a minority.) I see that and I think “p*ssy”. Do they really have to have that much of a height difference to feel like a man?

I prefer men under 6’. I would date taller of course but I generally like the body proportions of men under 6’. How ever if they have issues about MY height it is a turn off.

@ Starthrower68 # 126

You go girl!!

@ Susan #127

I agree it doesn’t matter. I like men who are confident with women who are taller (with heels or without).

@ AS #128

AMEN!
Joe 130

I’m dating someone now, but if I put my profile back up again, I’m going to add to it, “I’m 5′ 9.5″ tall, but by the time I put my heels on I’m over 6′, so you’d better be tall!”
starthrower68 131

@ Lia, I think it’s going the way of the hjntity . C’est la vie. What can ya do?
Lia 132

@ Starthrower68

What can you do? Say, “next!!” and don’t take it personally.
Paula 133

I prefer men that are 6 feet. I find I am less attracted to men that are say 5″8. I am 5″6. I feel it’s an attraction thing. If I seem to find myself more attractive to taller men, why should I change my preference? I find men my height aren’t as attractive to me. When I do online dating, I don’t discriminate based on height because I am looking for personality more then just pure physicality, but height is a factor in the chemistry department.
I think it’s biological. I feel more protected by a taller man. Men my height don’t really do it for me.
At least for me, it’s not my main criteria but it is a part of the chemistry component and there is nothing wrong with knowing what you like and are attracted to.
Revo Luzione 134

I said it before, I’ll say it again:
Shorter men should work diligently on improving their posture, but also don’t be afraid of wearing heel lifts. Women do it, men in show business do it all the time.
It’s simply another tool that helps level the playing field. Shoe lifts are nothing different than women’s use of makeup or high heels.
Also, people have a hard time judging height. Some of people’s perception of height comes from a man’s attitude, style of movment and the way he carries himself. It’s about having physical presence. Men should learn to move with confidence, take up space, and cultivate a sense of feeling ‘big’, like you are projecting your energy throughout any room you happen to be in. This is really a form of self hypnosis, and as a roughly average height man, all of these things work well, not only in dating & relationships, but also in business as well.
Aisling 135

I agree wholeheartedly with Revo. I was madly in love at one time in my life with a man who was an inch shorter than me. He had all the attributes described above. One cannot control one’s height. But you can work to maximize your other assets. I can’t speak for other women, but I like being with a man who is take charge without being bossy, and who knows how to get things done. My ex-husband was the antithesis of that. I had to make all of the tough decisions, and I don’t want to be in a relationship like that again. He was a bit too beta.
The same goes for women. I have seen ladies who have hook noses and are otherwise plain end up with great men. These women have a positive attitude, are engaged with life, and are not defined by their beauty.
Age is the only thing I find tough to overcome as a woman. It’s hard when you really want to date a man your own age, but the few men who are in decent shape and have their act together want to date 10-20 years younger. I don’t want to be a cougar, and men 60+ already have too many health problems. Of course, I wouldn’t mind seeing a man through illness if I at least had some good years with him before I become the nurse.
Then again, like the short men, I have to maximize my assets no matter what my age. Age and height are two things beyond our control.
JJ 136

There’s a point in every woman’s life (late 30s, early 40s) where she suddenly becomes invisible to many younger men. It just happens one day. A cute guy who might have “checked you out” or make eye contact just passes you by like you’re wearing a cloak of invisibility. Congratulations, you’ve entered middle age. That’s life. It doesn’t really matter how attractive you are, either. You’ve aged out of a certain demographic. Not to be depressing. I really can’t believe how acceptable it is for a woman to say “I must be with a tall man. Because I’m too insecure about how I look, standing next to a man. I’m worried what people will think, since society has this arbitrary notion that a man must be taller than a woman. Because my happiness in life is contingent on whether or not we look good to people.”
JB 137

I ran across this today on Plenty Of Fish from a gigantic woman all of 5’3″ tall.
I quote “Physically, I prefer taller men (5’11″ or taller). Sorry, it’s just one of those things”
This is a woman that even though I’m no expert I can tell she has fake boobs that are (in my opinion) too big for her body.
I wonder how she’d feel if she read in a guys profile. “Physically, I prefer women with real breasts. Sorry, it’s just one of those things”
Bottom line is any and everything you disqualify someone for is just 1 or many of “those things’. There’s hundreds of “those things”. Oh well……….
Renee 138

I like shorter guys. Less stiff necks, lol. Both men and women are going to have their preferences, but no one is perfect, and we all deserve a chance
Goldie 139

@ JB, if, back in my online dating days, I saw something like that on a guy’s profile (“physically, I prefer (big boobs, blue eyes, size 6, what have you), sorry it’s just one of those things”), I’d skip to the next profile, because this guy’s fixation on random physical attributes already tells me we won’t be a good match, even if I happen to meet his specs. Too shallow. Next!

PS (catty mode on) I thought Snooki had just had a baby? What’s she doing on POF? (catty mode off)