Attractive Men Don’t Make The Best Husbands
In the wake of the Anthony Wiener scandal, it’s hard not to speculate about how his beautiful, pregnant, new wife got herself involved with a guy like that.
46-year-old Weiner is a fit, intelligent, (formerly-promising) politician with a six-figure income and a reputation for being a ladies’ man.
According to Vicki Larson of Huffington Post, that’s where Weiner’s wife and other smart, beautiful, accomplished women often make their mistake. In “Hot or Not? Why Women Shouldn’t Pick Attractive Husbands”, Larson writes “The more financially independent women become, the more they prefer good-looking men. But they don’t just want their partners to be hotties; they want them to be masculine, physically fit, loving, educated, a few years older and making the big bucks. Oh, and they also have to really want to be a hubby and daddy.”
That’s a tall order.
She writes that men with more testosterone are consistently rated more handsome than other men.
And that men with more testosterone are 38 percent more likely to cheat.
She claims that the happiest couples are those in which the woman is more attractive than the man, rather than the reverse.
Read the full article here. Do you agree? What happened when you chose a guy based on his looks? Share your comments below, please.
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91 Comments »Filed Under Dating
starthrower68 1
I heard this article in the Huffington Post yesterday, being discussed on the radio. It’s just more confirmation of the Alpha Male thing we discuss so much on here.
Sayanta 2
My simplistic view? Everyone’s different- no matter how much the media may try to pigeonhole. I’ve had dates with ugly guys who were assholes and attractive men who werent, and vice versa. It’s funny, no one would ever dream of looking at someone and saying, oh- he’s ugly, so he must be a jerk. But somehow, it’s okay to do the reverse.
Steve 3
I don’t see how Anthony Weiner got mixed up in this conversation. Some women started to find him attractive after he became publicly defiant about stepping down . However, I think if he was a regular guy without any political power and making an average salary he wouldn’t be a choice for a woman who was looking for a good looking man.
Lisa M. 4
“ It’s funny, no one would ever dream of looking at someone and saying, oh- he’s ugly, so he must be a jerk. But somehow, it’s okay to do the reverse.”
So true. It’s okay to trash good-looking men, while less attractive men are presented as ideal partners, which is complete B.S. Where is the article that talks about how men should date/marry ugly women because they make better partners? I am so sick and tired of this old double standard. I don’t think it’s healthy for either men OR women to be fixated on looks. But it seems that it’s only a problem when women are. Men are free to be as superficial and shallow as they want when choosing a partner.
Treifalicious 5
its also possible that an ugly guy might have self esteem issues that might lad to a palpable resentment of women and the propensity to cheat at the first possible opportunity in order to assuage his feelings of undesirability
AMS 6
Love is blind for a reason.
Diana 7
My first question is, “How does a woman determine the difference between high and normal testosterone, possibly sparing her of all these scary stats?” Of all the men I have ever met, I have never once thought about their testosterone levels. [LOL] I suppose it’s embedded in my subconscious somewhere, capable of causing an attraction for reasons I’m not aware of. “That’s” a scary thought.
To be honest, I have found very few men physically attractive, even the celebrities. It may be because I think of masculinity in a somewhat different way whether society agrees or not, like the man who lovingly gets up at 3:00 am to change the baby’s diaper while his wife sleeps or isn’t afraid to buy a box of Tampons. A man with a well-defined, muscular body, a six-figure income, a driving, passionate career who’s popular with the ladies is actually a turn off for me because it places substance where no true value can be found. It has nothing to do with my own physical appearance, drive or income. I make more conscious, calculated decisions, rather than being swept away in a wave of false bravado and testosterone.
With regard to Rep. Weiner, real men don’t show off their package, etc. This has nothing to do with masculinity or attractiveness, and everything to do with his ego. And of course some women are going to come running and saying how “hot” he is. That doesn’t make it so. A lot of women do the same re: Hugh Hefner. It’s the game that so many people love to play, especially in the internet world. What’s wrong with a little online flirting anyway, they ask themselves. Everyone has their own agenda. Rep. Weiner has displayed that he’s not that intelligent after all.
My former husband and I were often thought of as a “Beauty and the Beast” couple, but that didn’t make him any less masculine or a better husband. He was raised to be a staunch provider, thoughtful, respectful, kind and loving, with a good, creative and witty mind, without regard to his appearance, and I was just smart enough to be able to see far beyond what nature gave him to the real man underneath.
As Sayanta #2 points out, just because the man’s good looking with financial stability that doesn’t automatically make him a cad or a lesser husband. Such nonsense and frivolity!
Lisa M. 8
@5,
Yes, I do find less attractive men (obese, short etc.) to have serious self-esteem issues and tend to be very insecure in their relationships with women, especially, if the woman is very attractive. And that has been my own personal experience whenever I have given less desirable men a chance.
Then again, it’s the individual’s mindset and not what they look like that drives how they will function in a relationship, in my opinion.
EM 9
I agree with Sayanta.
I was recently with a man who many of my friends found to be not that attractive. I even didn’t find him attractive at all when we first started talking but he won me over with his sense of humor, then he revealed himself to be an ass after we started sleeping together.
This theory of attractive men not being your best bet as a partner is not the most valid theory. One thing that these men who have been involved in scandals (Terminator (can’t spell his name), Weiner, IMF head, Clinton, Kilpatrick, McGreevy etc) is that they were in positions of power and felt they could do anything they want.
So if anything, be wary of a man in a power position. The Time magazine issue with the pig on the cover features an insightful piece on men with power.
Lynn 10
Several times I have experienced my attraction to a man grow exponentially after I get to know him, and he *becomes* a really good looking guy to me. Whereas at first I might not have noticed him.
Brenda 11
Bravo to Diana – I could not have put it any better.
david 12
@ lisa — whoa, when did short become “less attractive” (and on par with “obese”?)
Sarah 13
I dont think it is good looks. I personally think Weiner is very physically unattractive. I work in an office where the male to female ratio is 30/1. Most of the men are not attractive and they cheat and have problematic personalities as much as the good looking ones do. My girlfriends who aren’t treated very well by their boyfriends or husbands, are not with these guys for their appearances. A loser is a loser no matter what he looks like. When I finally decided to try dating outside of the normal conventionally attractive guy (a short older guy with a receding hairline), he proved to be the only one I have ever dated with a temper, shied away from commitment and flaked on dates. Nope. Ugly guy does not mean good guy
Lisa M. 14
David, if you’re a short guy I didn’t mean to offend. But the fact of the matter is, short men have a very low market value among women. I hear many short men complaining about being constantly overlooked by women.
Gem 15
Stupid article. One person’s ugly is another person’s hot.
Jadafisk 16
But… while Wiener could certainly be seen as attractive by many women, he’s an acquired taste. His combination of intelligence, gregariousness, and physical fitness (compared to men in his age range) make him more attractive than he would be on facial features alone. RE: sheer shallowness, his wife IS more attractive than he is. She was featured in Vogue, FGS. Part of the likely impetus for the sheer scope of his escapades is that he still feels like that gangly, awkward bookish adolescent with the schoolyard taunt-ready surname in the first place. There are countless examples of men with incredibly attractive wives relative to themselves who cheat. Donald Trump, anyone?
“According to Vicki Larson of Huffington Post, that’s where Abedin and other smart, beautiful, accomplished women often make their mistake. In “Hot or Not? Why Women Shouldn’t Pick Attractive Husbands”, Larson writes “The more financially independent women become, the more they prefer good-looking men. But they don’t just want their partners to be hotties; they want them to be masculine, physically fit, loving, educated, a few years older and making the big bucks. Oh, and they also have to really want to be a hubby and daddy”
So… they want equals, and that’s just too much to ask? Also, picking older men IS a way of making certain a woman is more attractive than her partner. As a younger woman, she can cherry pick the most attractive older men, but they still won’t hold a candle to the most attractive men her own age, unless she’s specifically attracted to the signs of aging.
Here 17
I’ve dated a couple not-so-attractive men and they turned out to be douches.
Jackie 18
Well the good news is that I was raised to value other things in a man… but I have a weakness for charisma– ahh shucks! that’s why Im reading evan’s materials to look for the right man
ok, a little playful sarcasm aside, I think this is common sense and it’s always better if the man feels “lucky” because he has a much more attractive woman by his side. Their eyes may always wander but their ehem other parts will not.
Selena 19
My experience has been similar to Lynne’s #10. How attractive I perceive a man goes up or down depending on what’s he’s like as I get to know him.
Karl R 20
Jadafisk asked: (#16)
“So… they [smart, beautiful, accomplished women] want equals, and that’s just too much to ask?”
Maybe that’s what they’re getting. None of those qualities imply integrity, kindness or any of the other qualities that matter most.
Regardless of whether you’re a man or woman, you’re unlikely to get everything that you want in a partner. But you can probably guarantee that you get whatever quality you value the most.
I value intelligence a lot, but I never insisted that my girlfriends be my equals in that regard. I value attractiveness, but I can think of several long-term relationships where I was better looking than my girlfriend. I’ve dated women who were significantly more successful than me, and significantly less successful (I never cared about those kind of accomplishments).
What did I refuse to compromise on? Easy to get along with. By the time I got into my 30s I realized that it was possible to have a partner who was easy to get along with. (Watching my parents as I grew up, that hadn’t been an automatic assumption, but fortunately I realized it before getting married to someone who wasn’t.)
Integrity is also very important. So is sexual compatability. Do you really want to have a gorgeous partner who only wants sex once or twice a month? I’d prefer a more average-looking partner who wants sex every other day.
Regardless whether you’re a man or a woman, I don’t recommend putting the highest emphasis on looks, fitness, education, age, finances or anything else that will impress your friends, family and coworkers when you make introductions. If those are the things you’re focused on, you’re looking for a status symbol, not a partner you can depend on.
Rob 21
@EM 9
Men who are not in power positions don’t get much media coverage when they lie and cheat. That is why all the ones in the news are in power positions. Possibly such men are more likely to cheat than though I am sure it is rampant amongst the less famous too!
Flower White 22
My most dsyfunctional relationship was with a good looking man.When we first got together he’d tell me about all the women flirting with him.
Once, I confronted a waitress after he (lied) that she was trying to pick him up.
Yes that was 10 years ago and I’ve learned much…
For me if a man it TOO good looking or TOO fat or TOO short there are gonna be probs. Oh and that good looking man? Right after he DUMPED me for having boundaries he shortly married an unattractive woman and he is giving her HELL.
david 23
@ lisa.
yes, I’m 5’7 so apparently I have “very low market value.” Nice.
mv72 24
Less attractive man does not equal more faithful or committed. I once had a roommate who dated an “ugly” man and she never thought he would cheat on her. The problem is, there were other women out there who thought he was ugly too and should be ecstatic to even have a GF, and therefore a safe bet. He managed to swindle all of them…….
morgan 25
I agree with Larson’s thesis – the change in women’s socio-economic status (at least in the first world) has changed the behavioural economics of partnering. Many women who don’t rely on men for financial security are less inclined to compromise on the other qualities they seek in a partner. For some women the differentiator will be physical attractiveness. Others look for social standing, which is often but not always, tied to finances. I also know women who want partners who will take primary responsibility for child rearing and/or running the household.
There is so much fall out from women not needing to rely on men financially. Evan spends an awful lot of time convincing women to compromise if they want to find a life partner. I know quite a few women choosing to have children without a partner now. There is definitely more pressure on men to keep themselves looking good too. In some ways this disadvantages men in the mating game because women don’t need their finances so much but… in other ways it means their other qualities are stronger differentiators. A friend of mine who is very wealthy after being widowed in her late 40s is now madly in love with a guy who adores her and looks after her but earns diddly squat. She wouldn’t have considered him for anything more than a fling before her marriage.
Getting back to the original example, I wonder if there’s a narcissistic motivation, which I’ve seen before, in Abedin’s choice of Weiner. He’s the long term, high status, ladies man and she is the one who ‘captures his heart’. She was better than any other women he’s been with because she’s the one he wants to marry. In reality his choice is probably because he’s not getting any younger and knows a wife is good for business. In reality he is the same compulsive womaniser he has always been, possibly even more desperate now he’s married.
Evan Marc Katz 26
One thing that this piece doesn’t mention about “attractive” men is that it’s not so much about looks (although that’s one form of attraction for women), but confidence/status. So it doesn’t matter if it’s a rockstar, politician, actor, lead singer or CEO, but the alpha male is a risky bet, as opposed to the beta male. To me, that’s the big takeaway from this piece, even if it’s not stated directly.
Furthermore, I remember reading that men who make over $300,000 are 30% more likely to cheat. Is anyone surprised by this?
Flower White 27
Yes and Evan YOU are good looking. Hmmm. I kid! You had BETTER not cheat
Ruby 28
I thought this article was ridiculous. Anthony Wiener isn’t all that attractive, and his wife IS way hotter than he is, for one thing. I completely agree with EMK that it’s more about status than anything else. As Henry Kissinger said, “Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac”. Most high status men, especially politicians, understand this very clearly, and many try to use it to their advantage.
As far as looks go, I know good looking men who are great people and homely men who are jerks. And vice versa.
Christina 29
I don’t think it’s so much that handsome men in and of themselves are a poor risk, but that the women who choose them for that reason are making a poor relationship choice due to having superficial values. (Of course, men do this too, but the study is about women)
The more I learn about other people’s relationships, the more I see that most of their problems go back to choosing someone for all of the wrong reasons. If you’re looking for someone with whom you can have a family and grow old, their looks, height, weight, and financial status become singularly unimportant. (I’m not talking about financial stability, which is important to most relationships- I”m talking about those who look for super-high earners). Time after time, I see women choose men who treat them badly, but who meet all kinds of superficial criteria irrelevant to the health of a relationship.
As Karl said above, what really counts is integrity, sexual compatibility, and ability to get along. If a woman can’t consider a man who’s 5’7″ as a partner, just because of his height, I’m not going to be too sorry if she’s unhappy with the jerk she chooses because he’s a few inches taller.
Zann 30
Thank you, Evan for pointing out the distinction between the physically attractive male and the man with the alpha attitude, because they’re two very different traits. I’ve known some very intelligent, attractive, successful men who were also shallow, boring, not at all that fun or insightful. And because of his above-average looks, he’s grown used to easily attracting women and, thus, becomes rather lazy…why put out the effort to engage and entice a woman when he can draw the in based merely on his face value or curb appeal. Yawn.
The alpha man is a different animal altogether — he might be good looking or merely average or unique looking. But the way he presents himself to the world with his charismatic, usually extroverted personality and humor makes him not only a ladies’ man, but also a “man’s man.” Guys tend to be drawn to him as a bud, maybe because they want to be like him but also — let’s face it — he’s fun and interesting to be around.
Personally, I run from the alpha male. I’ve finally learned in my many years that he’s way too preoccupied with his own stature, success, and self-aggrandizing to spend much time admiring little ol’ me. I hold nothing against this type of male; in fact, he is great company, there’s never a lull in conversation, and he’s usually very entertaining, very charming. But in terms of a committed relationship, I’ll take the guy who’s not so self-involved that he fails to notice and appreciate the fine woman next to him, who wins me over with his genuine interest in me, and who has a non-flashy self-confidence and his own brand of masculinity.
Jazzy 31
I have dated all sorts of men – from super hot to super not – and they all share one thing only: they are men. Some were cute & confident, some were cute & insecure. The wealthy alpha male was an adrenaline junkie and emotional wreck, while the poor child psychologist was an amazingly attentive boyfriend. The alpha-male that I am so hot for right now was just rated as a 2 by my best girlfriend! “WTH is wrong with her?!?” I thought, but then I remembered that it is probably all about our chemistry. And for me Weiner would be a 2 no matter how much money he made…unless we met in person and he was amazingly charming. You can’t have a type or label people in just one category – even looks. There are too many differences and too many personal/emotional/physiological factors that come in to play once you meet, date or are in a relationship. People lie and cheat regardless of their looks / status and people are honest and kind regardless of looks / status.
Steve 32
I think the lesson under all of the verbiage is that if a person thinks s/he can do better, they will try to do better.
As far as dating and mating goes the question would be what would make someone pass up an opportunity to “upgrade”.
I think some of Evan’s best observations are that women mistakenly think men want the same things women do. You can see this for yourself in online dating ads where women advertise their resumes instead of themselves. Super duper Alpha guys aren’t looking for a resume, they are looking for a woman to complement them and fit into THEIR lives.
Gem 33
Tony Montana: In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.
More money = more power = more opportuntiy with women. More opportunity = more temptation and an eventual feeling of entitlement.
So no Evan, I’m not surprised that men making $300,000 are 30% more likey to cheat. I’m surprised the percentage is not higher.
myhonestanswer 34
One of my readers had a recent dilemma between two men, and she seemed to think you could only be sophisiticated, or sexy, not both.
Real Men Secrets 35
I don’t agree, the problem with “good looking” guys is the same problem with the “big penis” guys….
They think that the look/size is enough to keep the women satisfied and then they go on and cheat with the “ugly guys”… I think that David Shade talks a lot about this issue.
But not all the “big” guys are like that.
Allison 36
Evan is totally right about the alpha confidence/status phenomenon. I dated an alpha, and fell for him quickly– he was an activist and frequent public speaker, intelligent, charismatic, extremely good-looking, masculine, funny, and at first, a total pleasure to date because he was interesting, talkative, and charming. He was also addicted to the validation he got from his many admirers– men and women of all ages– and really was unable to prioritize or appreciate me. When he dumped me, it hurt– badly– but I realized very quickly that a man that self-absorbed, who needs that much attention all the time, can really be exhausting, and make for a really crappy partner.
I agree with Karl that most things you love to show off about your boyfriend/girlfriend to your friends and family have zero impact on what kind of partner a person is. This time, I’m still looking for attractive, but with a little less flash and a little more humility.
southrnphoenix 37
The biggest problem I had with the original article is that the way a person looks does not have one thing to do with their character. Crappy people are just crappy people, and for many of us a horrible character will quickly equal an unattractive person. So thank you, Evan, for your clarification regarding status. Some people can handle power, some can’t, but the truly sad thing there is that the ones who can’t can often be good people until they reached that level of power/status. I don’t find Weiner to be attractive, but then, I’m not attracted to power or fame. Give me the sweet, loving man every time because I think that’s hot!
Carrie 38
Good looking? Weiner???? hahhahahha ok..well I don’t think he is going to be on the Peoples Most Beautiful cover. Neither will his wife. They are normal average people in a really horrible situation. I feel for her. The humiliation. He is just arrogant and really thought he was above the law ie. Tiger Woods. Bad people are bad people. Yes the good looking are much more confident and arrogant which leads them to think they can and will do whatever they want because the world is their oyster. There is no empathy, sympathy or any of those “pathy” words. They are Narcissists. The most frightening to be in a relationship with. I know I was in one. How did my relationship with what “i thought” was a good looking man end up….yep you got it divorced. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder….I think Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, Jason Statham are good looking but you might think George Clooney, Jeff Goldblum, and Liev Shriber are good looking…cause I certainly don’t. We all have a different idea of beauty which I am glad cause then there is something for everyone. If the person is pleasing to your eye and are a good person…wonderful..wonderba! Go for it…cause getting those two in one person I am finding is quite the feat. Beauty also doesn’t mean that you will be happy….falling in love with their character can be alot more reassuring and lasting. Truly blessed you are if you find the character that outshines any beauty! Just my own silly opinion….
Carrie
http://www.carriefabulous.com
hunter 39
I think most men know that it takes time for a woman to warm up to a man. Once she is attracted to him, she will find the not so good looking man, very good looking.
sharon 40
@ Hunter
I think most men and perhaps some women would like to believe that. I think most women just get good at imaging someone else to get by.
JerseyGirl 41
The sad thing about these kind of studies is that they insist that to be a masculine, strong, attractive male is to be a big cheating scumbag that can’t but help to act on impulse only. And that is just insulting to men and manhood in general. Especially for every man that stands by his family, works hard for them, puts them first. And it’s insulting to women to believe that if a man is masculine, he can only but be a big cheater and it’s her own fault if he ends up cheating on her. I bet your average trailer park Joe can easily and happily cheat within his social circle just as much as the Anthony Weiners of the world. By insisting that masculine men are only able to disrespect their female partners, we insist on justifying behavior that’s not so much nature as it might be social nurture. Studies like these only further help populate unflattering and untrue so called “truths” about what men and masculinity means.
Further, our culture LOVES to focus on men (and women) that behave badly. So strong masculine men that are known to be good their families like Matt Damon and Paul Newman clearly don’t get the press time that the Arnolds and Anthonys of the world do. I do not think attractiveness (in any form) has to be synonymous with awful cheating husband/boyfriend material.
MH 42
I think it’s not so much look, but attitude. Weiner seems like he thought/knew he was “hot stuff” so to speak and felt he could maybe get any women. He does need help.
Margo 43
Um, Weiner looks like crap, and I’ve always dated attractive men. I let men be the pursuers and the ones who pursue me are usually attractive and outgoing. I’m currently not in a relationship at present, but the guy I’m seeing is good-looking.
Stacy 44
The whole point is moot, while it seems logical that less attractive/shorter guys whould have to develope nice personalities to compensate for these “shortcomings” on the dating market, in practice these guys are (1) delusional about their looks and actually consider themselves attractive (2) scarred by multiple experiences of trying to date out of their league and being rejected and as a result (3) jaded and have much worse personalities that good-looking guys.
Just my experience
Sayanta 45
Jersey girl
You beat me to the Paul Newman comment- thanks for bringing that up. I think people love thinking in black and white: alpha bad, beta good. Things are not that ridiculously simple.
Goldie 46
Karl said it best! “Regardless whether you’re a man or a woman, I don’t recommend putting the highest emphasis on looks, fitness, education, age, finances or anything else that will impress your friends, family and coworkers when you make introductions.”
As a result, things didn’t work out. Bottom line, like Karl said, if at least one side chooses their partner for external qualities rather than internal, it isn’t going to work.
As for the question posed in Evan’s post, I chose my ex-husband primarily for his looks (hey, I was 20), and, well, he is an ex and I’m here. Enough said. Then again, I dated a very unattractive guy recently, and that didn’t work out either. While I, like many people on here have said, started finding him pretty good-looking after I had warmed up to him, he turned out to have massive issues related to looks. Apparently to him I was either a status symbol, or a piece of tail, or both
Sherell 47
I think its more men in powerful positions then looks. Wiener and so many others aren’t really that good looking but power and wealth make them attractive to a lot of women and the attention they get added with testosterone increases the likely hood that they may cheat. Integrity and their personality make some stay faithful
Evan Marc Katz 48
@Sayanta and JerseyGirl – Citing Paul Newman as an example of a great looking successfully married alpha male is great. However nobody said it was IMPOSSIBLE to find a man like that. Certainly not on this blog, where it’s never about black and white. However, good dating advice deals in the majority instead of the minority. So, among Hollywood marriages, do you think the majority are successful or unsuccessful? That’s right; the reason you cite Paul Newman (who is now dead, by the way) is that there are VERY few examples of successful long-term relationships among stars. I think this is perfect proof of my point, thank you very much.
Tish 49
I really like what Diana (#7) had to say. Frankly, I kinda agree with the article. I’ve dated mostly “hotties” in my day and I’m no spring chicken. For the most part, I knew that they loved me and cared for me deeply, but they just couldn’t say no to other women and the attention they always got. On the flip side of that, I’ve tried several times to date not-so-attractive guys to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they turned out to be angry, insecure, pompous types. But I think it was Even who said that it’s not that we’re picking the wrong guys, its’ that we’re tolerating the wrong guys and their bad behavior too long (paraphrasing, as my memory doesn’t serve me well enough to quote verbatim).
I do know of a couple of men who are extremely attractive, who are and have been faithful to their wives for a very long time. One of them being a very good friend of mine who’s wife is so secure in their relationship that she doesn’t mind having me and another of our good friends over for dinner. I’d say these guys are far and few though.
I’ve always dated really good looking guys, but now I realize that it was because I was lacking something within myself that made me feel as though I had something to prove
Now that I’m older and mature (and still got it goin’ on), I look deeper into a man’s behavior, his ideas, his life style, his goals, his heart and most important, how he treats me. And I avoid pretty boys like the plague! LOL
JerseyGirl 50
Evan, I think that Hollywood marriages are probably privy to the same issues people in regular marriages face. Just with nicer cars, better wrinkle creams and more boob jobs. I think they also might have just about the same success/unsuccessful rate that regular people have within their relationships today, with perhaps a slight increase to more unsuccess in long term relationships. But I bet the women in Hollywood are cheating just as much as the men. Like I said before, I doubt Trailer Park Joe is always a good model of good morals and does nothing but treat his lady with respect. Do you really not think that cheating goes on as much with “upper” class people as it does “lower” class ones?
Basing truths about men based on men like Anthony Weiner, Arnold or Tiger Woods is really doing men in general a huge disservice. Insisting that most powerful men are only capable of humiliating their families is actually quite an awful opinion to have of men in general. I think the issues these men caused for themselves goes beyond just being more “masculine/powerful” men in their retrospective fields. This is where fringe pop-science “studies” do us a disservice. They offer so little information about the depths of human nature while managing to pan to the most simplistic of terms that people can’t help but rationalize them. I think our society thrives on reporting on bad gossip. So if Kurt Douglas bought Goldie Hawn an entire nursery of flowers and had Bruce Springsteen serenade her on a spinning ferris wheel, we would STILL be more likely to hear about how many porn stars Tiger Woods was doing over any big sweet romantic gestures between Hollywood couples.
I used Paul Newman as an example, (yes I am well aware he is dead thanks), because your article was based on comparing another public figure to regular guys and relationships, Anthony Weiner. There are clearly many public political officials that do not do right by their wives and families. But what about the thousands of other men in politics that we don’t hear about that have been in 30+ year old marriages? We don’t hear about them because we don’t want to hear about the boring good minded men and women. We want to hear the most salacious tidbits we can. I live in NJ and we have a Governor that has been married for decades and has 6 kids. Inbetween doing his job as Governor, we still hear about him working hard to still attend his kids games and still find time to connect with his wife. But the rest of the world doesn’t hear about that because that’s not what sells. What sells are scandals and sex so that’s what we hear about.
The study is only doing men and women a huge disservice by insisting that most men in powerful positions can’t be good men.
Evan Marc Katz 51
Sigh. No one said “most men in powerful positions can’t be good men”, but rather that a higher percentage of powerful men are worse risks as husbands. So if 20% of all men cheat, I’m guessing that 40% of high status men cheat. That means 60% of high status guys don’t cheat. This doesn’t mean you CAN’T find a high status guy who is faithful – clearly 60% of them are – but that such high status men are higher risks overall because of their power, drive, testosterone, and appeal to women. Are you STILL willing to argue with this point? Really?
Jennifer 52
The biggest problem is there are too many games being played. If the players would just leave the serious people alone all would be good. Let the players play with each other.
Tish 53
Evan (#51) – You crack me up! LOL!
)
JerseyGirl 54
In general Evan, I am leary of alot of the pop science studies that come through as news. I have dated all kinds of guys myself. From someone in politics themselves to guys that sold retail. I’ve dated men with Ivy league educations and men with community college ones. I am not someone that thinks that ivy league = smarter or political position = better. I’ve gone out with “regular” guys that treated me like crap and high society ones that have treated me well…and vice versa. There is no “truth” that is consistant. So based on my personal experiences, by insisting that it’s more normal for powerful men to desrespect their famlies, we aren’t doing right by men or women. We are equating “more masculine” men with being “users”. I just don’t think that’s right! I believe these men in recent media had deeper issues going beyond power. Things that we could not ever judge scientifically without deep conversations about who they are as men.
Zann 55
Excellent point, Jennifer! (#52). Now, if only the players could get real honest with themselves and admit they’re players right up front to anyone who romantically crosses their paths, all would be well. But it’s a big IF only.
Evan Marc Katz 56
I appreciate your tone, Jersey, but really disagree with your conclusion. The way you say it, one can never make any inferences about anything, because there’s always an individual exception. That ignores the idea that there is truth to be found in patterns and in science, and we’d be foolish not to attempt to draw some sort of conclusions. If it were determined that 72% of men under 5’4″ were verbally abusive, wouldn’t that inform whether you went out with a short man? By your standards, you’d say, but “he could be in the 28%”. And you’d be right. There are always going to be exceptions to rules. But that doesn’t negate that there’s something behind the rules.
My whole business is about seeing patterns – in how men act, in how women act. And if every time I point out a pattern, you attempt to negate it with a “Yes, but SOME people don’t fit that pattern”, it just becomes a bit exhausting. You know what I mean?
One would have to be an ostrich with its head buried under the sand to not recognize that good looking successful men with money are higher flight risks than nice, normal, nerdy guys who are appreciative to have found a woman who digs them. This is absurd to even debate.
Darren Miller 57
Sorry for the weird txt, my computer is having a hissy fit.
The statistics I have seen are incredible: something like 50% of marriages fail, and 5% of newlyweds fail within the first year. Now, you guys can decide whether that’s incompatibility or attractive men just don’t make great husbands. Personally, I find it a load of rubbish; you can make any person as special as you want them to be.
I say that because I have a very attractive mate who got marriage in the belief his wife was the one for him. After 3 years, they had a child and got divorced and he got back on the dating scene. He met a new girl and ironically, now he thinks she is the one, but I can see it ending up exactly the same way as his previous relationship. This tells me whether you’re an attractive man or ugly man, it doesn’t matter. It’s the way you behave in the relationship and the way you treat the girl.
Karl R 58
JerseyGirl said: (#54)
“In general Evan, I am leary of alot of the pop science studies that come through as news.”
I ran across that specific studies several months ago. I can’t remember the details, but they were executed in a scientific manner and the conclusions (wealthy men are more likely to cheat, high-testosterone men are more likely to cheat) accurately represented the results of the study.
JerseyGirl said: (#54)
“There is no “truth” that is consistant. So based on my personal experiences, by insisting that it’s more normal for powerful men to desrespect their famlies, we aren’t doing right by men or women. We are equating more masculine’ men with being ‘users’. I just don’t think that’s right!”
Some well-executed surveys have demonstrated that there is a strong correlation between higher salary and cheating -and- that there is a strong correlation between higher testosterone and cheating.
If you’re involved with a successful, high-testosterone man, the risk of being cheated on is higher. You may decide that it’s an acceptable risk. Heck, you could decide that the risk doesn’t exist and unknowingly take the risk. (There are people who try to downplay the risk of cigarettes by pointing out smokers in their 80s and 90s.)
I would say Evan is “doing right” in this case, because he’s providing accurate information. You can choose to take the risk, but at least it will be an informed decision.
Evan Marc Katz 59
@Darren – from today’s New York Times: “According to a 2010 study by the National Marriage Project at the University of Virginia, only 11 percent of college-educated Americans divorce within the first 10 years today, compared with almost 37 percent for the rest of the population.”
Steve 60
@59
I wonder if that has anything to do with that demographic getting married less or the bad economy motivating people to stick it out with a marriage.
SS 61
Steve @60, I’ve read studies lately that say that because college educated individuals tend to wait longer before marrying, that lends well to them staying together. Also, this population is less likely to suffer from the financial strains that break many relationships apart.
I’ve even seen studies that say that today, college educated Americans are more likely than any group to marry.
The New York Times article didn’t mention the bad economy as a reason for couples to stay together, but it said a lot of them either were children of divorce or saw too many divorces in their community… so when it was time for them to get married, they entered the institution more cautiously and have less inclination to divorce just for the sake of “freedom” or “growing apart.”
JerseyGirl 62
Evan, I appreciate your tone as well but think you are missing my point.
I do think there can be truth found in patterns and science. I am not saying patterns and science used to describe behavior is wrong. What I am saying is that the pop science we get fed today is only one hair on the whole head. And it’s usually the hair that panders to the worse common denominator inside us because that is what elicits attention. So I am not saying it’s completely untrue. What I am saying is that there is more to the story. And not just in what you might qualify the small percentage of men that beat the stereotype. Men like Tiger Woods have histories in combination with their situation and inside nature that cause them to make the choices they make. I just think we do men and masculinity in general a big disservice by setting men up to fail and justifying it.
Do you really believe that the average joe in a lower economy class is necessarily treating his partner better and not cheating on her because he’s not famous and powerful? Men of all social economic classes cheat. Are there any studies done on men in lower economy classes and their rate of cheating and stepping out? I’d be interested in seeing how it compares.
Aside from that, I don’t think most women are trying to date the richest man they can find. Or the most handsome. Based on the study, I do wonder at what price point, successful men all the sudden became high risk partners. $70k, $90k, $120K, $160k, $200K+? And how good looking does a guy have to be before he also becomes a more high risk partner? Because I don’t consider Anthony, Arnold or Tiger Woods attractive on any scale. And I think the women that pursue them are a certain kind of woman themselves. There are just too many questions and variables to make the statement that women should pick men that are less then them. And that’s the impression the article leaves me with. That the only way men are happy is if they feel they got the better deal while women are told to be happy they must accept men that are less then themselves.
Margo 63
I’m sorry, but I don’t see the point of the article. I also don’t agree with teh title. Powerful positions and attractive looks aren’t what make men cheat; character deficits make men cheat. Looks have nothing to do with it, Evan.
Sarahrahrah! 64
@David #12, 23 – Lisa M. can speak for herself. I’m attracted to “short” men and the one man in my life that I was most attracted to was about 5’7”. (I’ve been considered attractive by the opposite sex and have dated men who were 5’3” to 6’3”, fyi.)
In my experience, shorter men tend to be less arrogant, more faithful, and more appreciative of my petite body. In addition, I like the way their muscles tend to be more defined and how I don’t feel like they are looking down at me all the time. I also believe that they are more likely to develop their personalities and sexual repertoire than “tall” men, especially those past age 35.
@Jadafisk – #14 – Excellent psychological analysis of Weiner. I thought the same thing myself.
@Ruby – #28 and Carrie — #38 – I so agree with you. Weiner is not that attractive and definitely not as attractive as Abedin.
I really didn’t like this article. I felt it was insensitive and abused statistics. First of all, it comes across as if the woman is the one with the problem. It hijacks the very personal issue of Huma Abedin’s husband essentially cheating on her in front of the world in their first year of marriage while she is pregnant with this child and then dares to question the judgement of the woman in the situation. Hmmmmm. Anthony Weiner literally tweeted his we*ner to the world and yet — somehow — we are supposed to scrutinize the judgement of the woman who chose him before he did that? That doesn’t make any sense to me at all.
I realize that the author of the article used Weinergate as an example of her pseudo-scientific theory that women bring misery upon themselves by choosing high testosterone men because high testosterone men are more likely to cheat. However, that is putting the blame where it doesn’t belong and that is completely unfair. I’ve seen the same types of arguments used against Maria Shriver (“How could she have not known???”) and I find it completely sexist and, again, totally insensitive.
For example, women with high estrogen are also more likely to cheat on their partners. When a woman cheats on a man, I don’t read articles about how the guy should have seen it coming and how he picked a woman with high estrogen, he should’ve known better, should have picked an uglier wife, etc., etc. No. When women cheat on men, it is because they chose to do it, are of bad moral character, etc., not because of some silly statistic that says they are more likely cheat.
The truth of the matter is that women are are attracted to testosterone in men and men are attracted to estrogen in women. (If you doubt this, try using good quality pheromones or herbs that enhance your natural hormones and watch your attractiveness with the opposite sex increase significantly.) The likely reason that men with high testosterone and women with high estrogen are more likely to cheat probably has to do with having more opportunities because people find them more attractive than the norm.
There have never been any studies that demonstrate that high levels of testosterone or estrogen cause people to lose their free will or their sanity. Therefore, the only people who should be blamed or shamed for cheating are the cheaters themselves. Trying to delve into the minds of cheaters only provides more excuses for their bad behavior, which is the problem.
That said, I can still appreciate Evan’s “hedge your bets” response to this article, which has more relevance to me than the article itself.
JerseyGirl 65
Sarahrahrah touched on something that is often a common theme when we hear stories about a woman wronged by her man. There is always an aspect where people blame the woman or say that it was really her own fault while studes just like these and comments come out about what men’s “true” nature is and how it’s justifiable why men do things because of their “nature”. It’s insane but it’s a popular theme that crops up regularly in our culture about how women are to blame and men are just being men.
According to most pop science women are suppose to pick mates that are uglier, make less money AND wamt her to split everything 50/50 and are older then herself.
Marquis 66
#8 Lisa M.
“Yes I do find less attractive men to have serious self-esteem issues..”
“..And that has been my own experience whenever I give less desirable men a chance“. I dunno, I just found that comment to be fairly offensive though it was given as if it was perfectly PC. A few posts prior in post 4 Lisa M. herself was talking about double standards that men get away with (in particular, men being afforded by society to be picky about looks in their female dating prospects- and apparently women are not. Though I thought the very nature of this topic was a clear example of women being picky or otherwise making an issue of men’s looks). And then Lisa talks about her negative experiences with less attractive men’s self-esteem issues whenver she gives them a chance. Really now; if the non-chalance of that statement there isn’t an example of a double standard than I must not understand the definition.
What would be the tone had a man said something like that? ‘You know, whenever I give less attractive women a chance, my experience has been they have far more issues with self-este…’. The women here and on about any other similar blog/forum would be in an uproar- and that’s assuming the comment even got posted. Being a little more considerate, im sure wont hurt you in your dating, and even general social endeavors.
m 67
“Part of the likely impetus for the sheer scope of his escapades is that he still feels like that gangly, awkward bookish adolescent with the schoolyard taunt-ready surname in the first place. “
Bingo.
So those are the ones you really have to watch out for.
As many other ladies have said here, it’s not a question of whether we perceive those men as goodlooking or not.
It’s all about how they perceive themselves.
m 68
““The more financially independent women become, the more they prefer good-looking men. But they don’t just want their partners to be hotties; they want them to be masculine, physically fit, loving, educated, a few years older and making the big bucks. Oh, and they also have to really want to be a hubby and daddy”
So… they want equals, and that’s just too much to ask?
LOL, Jadafisk. I know, right?
Annie 69
@29
I completely agree with you. The more I look around and see relationships fail, it is primarily because they picked the wrong person for them, because they selected a partner for the wrong reasons.
As much as I dislike the cheating males and I do not blame the women for the men cheating, I certainly will have no interst in being with such a male since I know the odds are that he will not be right for me.
At the end of the day, while we are not responsible for what a man does in terms of cheating(mostly), we ARE responsible for who we choose to be in a relationship with, so we need to be a bit more realistic and smarter about it.
Some posters here are doing a bit of an ostrich on this one I think.
Susan61 70
@Lisa M. #4
Sadly, the double standard is never going away and we just have to live with it as best we can.
Loved this post. Exactly – where is that article teling men to date unattractive women or women much older than they?
Zaq 71
Sorry Evan, its totally frustrating I know, but these women are not going to listen to reason are they.
They bring out the sme old rubbish to justify their desires:
ALL short men have a a Napoleon complex, so thats why I am justified in rejecting them.
Men on average incomes, are clearly lazy and have no ambition – reject.
Unattractive men (read average) are emotionally damaged from constant rejection – reject.
So if the observations above are correct, it stands to reason that higher status men, are not only more attractive, but have the added bonus of having a much better character !
The power of logic at work
Oh and I will brand all the scientific research conducted by geneticists and behavioural scientists as “pseudoscience”, because the results don’t mesh with what I want to believe. Not that I know ANYTHING about science.
I will of course ignore the reality that women are the only ones that have the power to decide whether a relationship starts or not, because we are the only ones that can say YES.
I will therefore claim that articles like this show the usual double standard, despite the fact that men have no power to choose ANY woman.
Lisa M. 72
@Zaq #71,
You are right. Most women want tall, handsome, high status men. And most of us won’t get him but the reason we keep bringing out the same old rubbish as you said is because of articles such as this one who tell us what we should want. So we feel we have justify our preference when we shouldn’tg have to. It’s none of anyone’s business if most women desire tall, handsome, high status men. I don’t hear anyone discouraging men from desiring beautiful coveted women and men clearly don’t feel the need justifytheir desire for them.
Zaq 73
@Lisa M #72
It is very natural to desire these high status men, and you should not feel the need to justify this. I’m sure you will agree with the study that stated that women married to wealth men had better orgasms !
But beware – read the Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. Your body is trying to pass on the best genes, but they do not care about you. Your happiness is irrelevant, having brought a child into the world, you are surplus to requirements. The “stud” is driven to pass his seed on to as many women as possible. He will cheat on you, because other women will continue to beg for his services.
Because he never has to try to attract women, he will probably treat them with contempt. People place no value on the things they do not “pay” for.
Then do the math. An attractive women, is what ? 1 in 20. A tall, handsome, intelligent, wealthy man is 1 in 100,000. And he probably has no sense of humour ! Yes, you can get the odds down by seeking out a target rich environment, but you have still got be what HE wants.
Now I am not tall. or handsome, so would be excluded from your checklist. However I am intelligent, fit, well off and do have a sense of humour (at least the audiences I perform to seem to thinks so).
I can date women in their early 20s (I know Evan’s not happy with that !)
Just think what THESE guys aspirations are like.
Lisa M. 74
I wish people would give women more credit. Do you think we don’t know that tall, handsome high status men are more likely to cheat on us? But that’s the price some women are willing to pay if they want to be with sought after men. As men have to pay for pursuing coveted women, who are often deemed as high maintenance and there is a lot of competition for them, too. We have to decide if it’s worth it or not. In the case of Weiner and his Uma, she is probably willing to put up with his philandering for really good orgasms and the power his position reeled. By the way, I have always thought Weiner was sexy. I’m not advocating that women do this but it is our choice if we decide to. I’m sick and tired of articles such as this criticizing and judging the choices make in men. Just because a man isn’t tall, handsome and high status doesn’t mean he is guaranteed not to cheat. I just love how less desirable men love demonizing good-looking men. Jealous much?
Recently, George Clooney (even though he is kind of old for my taste he does still make me weak in the knees) broke up with hot model girlfriend who is almost twenty years his junior. From the way the break up is reported, she was to blame because she wanted marriage and he didn’t. It’s her fault because she got involved with a man who doesn’t want commit (I don’t think any woman should get involved with a man that doesn’t want marriage if she does). But what you don’t hear is that maybe the relationship didn’t work out because of the age difference (I know how men hate hearing that they shouldn’t date much younger women, I could care less). I just know if it was the other way around that it would be all anybody would be sighting as to why the relationship didn’t work out. He appears to be completely vindicated in this and it’s all on her.
Zaq 75
So we are agreed women should not be criticised for chasing high status men, and men should not be criticised for ignoring all low fertility women over 35 – awesome.
However, Im not sure men do demonize high status men. Women are far more aware of their competition than men, who as you know tend not to take their looks into account when approaching hot women.
But highly attractive men are more likely to treat women badly, and I’ll tell you why. They have been trained to do so by other women.
Firstly by their mother. Children naturally push the boundaries of what they can get away with. Attractive children learn to use their looks and charm to get away with murder. (this also applies to girls). Teachers also show more leniency.
When it comes to dating at school, they discover that they are desired by most members of the opposite sex, and they test the boundaries again. How much can they abuse those infatuated with them, and still have them coming back for more. Childrens insecurities being what they are that turns out to be alot.
They learn how to fake empathy to get what they want
A few years of this and their personality is screwed for life.
Yes of course this also applies to women – the princess factor.
You want someone like this – be careful what you wish for !
Lisa M. 76
“However, Im not sure men do demonize high status men. Women are far more aware of their competition than men, who as you know tend not to take their looks into account when approaching hot women.”
Men really need to stop being dishonest about not being in competition with other men for the attention of women. Men are just as competitive with one another which is why you are here “warning” us about the evils of good-looking high status men. You are so transparent. You are basically attempting to make women feel terrible (which is a really tired old tactic, by the way) about the men we truly desire because you can’t compete with those men to get the women you truly desire.
Zaq 77
Lisa
Talk about delusional. Tell you what do a bit of research on the web on the science studies done and come back then.
By the way the “warning” also applies to good-looking women !
Annelli 78
This has been my exp. The guys I have dated who are somewhat attractive, but were either fat, had a small to average penis size were the worst boyfriends ever. They were insecure, jealous and paranoid and seem to have a high level of disrespect for women, esp. if the woman is beautiful. I have never, dated a really attractive and successful man just yet so I can’t say, but people cheat for different reasons, so I can’t assume that because, someone cheats they are automatically a “bad” person with no high moral standard. If anything I would say stay away from highly and constantly insecure men—-they’re insecurities and jealousy just may drive them to cheat.
Rhonda Cain 79
I did date a man for five or six years who is very attractive to women. He didn’t come across as an ego maniac, he is just “smooth” Ex girlfriends would stalk him, call the house, and friends of friends would openly flirt with him. I always felt proud to be the one on his arm. I don’t have any trouble finding men, I didn’t think he was out of my league, but when the relationship got to the point of, do or die, commit or move on, he would slip once in a while when things weren’t going his way that if I wouldn’t deal with whatever, someone else would. I realized that he mean’t that! He wouldn’t be lonely, he didn’t get mad when ex’s became neurotic, he liked it! His options were unlimited because women would bend their boundaries to “win” him over. Women do the same thing I am sure, but when you find a good looking guy who has the capacity to love, then your good to go. Find a good looking man who doesn’t and RUN
woman 80
A man must be beautiful, period.
Paragon 81
@ Lisa M.
” It’s okay to trash good-looking men, while less attractive men are presented as ideal partners, which is complete B.S.”
No one is saying that – however, the fact that males have evolved to be promiscuous *given the opportunity*, pretty much identifies the most attractive males as a high-risk proposition(exacerbated by the fact that female choosiness renders them a prohibitively scarce resource, out of proportion with only a very select group of female peers).
“Where is the article that talks about how men should date/marry ugly women because they make better partners?”
And what would be the justification for such an article?
“I am so sick and tired of this old double standard.”
What you, and most people, seem to have trouble reconciling is that the concept of sexual dimorphism extends far beyond just physical and biological traits(ie. female status as ‘rate-limiting’ necessarily skews male:female prospects accordingly, destroying any notion of symmetry you might otherwise be supposing).
In other words – there ARE double standards in nature.
Deal with it.
“You are right. Most women want tall, handsome, high status men. And most of us won’t get him but the reason we keep bringing out the same old rubbish as you said is because of articles such as this one who tell us what we should want. So we feel we have justify our preference when we shouldn’tg have to.”
I don’t think women are criticized for their preferences, but rather for making risky choices, and then crying about the (more or less) likely outcome(it is interesting to note that males are less likely to do this, as they are more harshly reproached for contributing to their own unfavorable outcomes).
Maginify this a million fold and, well, male sympathy dries up pretty quick(especially from overlooked, unmated males).
“I’m sick and tired of articles such as this criticizing and judging the choices make in men. Just because a man isn’t tall, handsome and high status doesn’t mean he is guaranteed not to cheat.”
No, it only makes him less likely to cheat, and more likely to make a long-term investment in any particular female.
But, since nothing is certain, you are posing a strawman, because outcomes are always a function of probability(which is *not* to say they are unpredictable).
It occurs, that women are not faulted for vocalizing their preferences and desires, but rather for their *faulty rationalizations* in appealing to probabilities nowhere indicated in likelihood(ie. a logical fallacy).
And it really is hard to respect someone as an adult, who can’t bring their head out of the clouds, and back down to reality(which, interestingly, seems less of a issue with non-western women).
“Men really need to stop being dishonest about not being in competition with other men for the attention of women. Men are just as competitive with one another which is why you are here “warning” us about the evils of good-looking high status men. You are so transparent. You are basically attempting to make women feel terrible (which is a really tired old tactic, by the way) about the men we truly desire because you can’t compete with those men to get the women you truly desire.”
Your rabid defensiveness makes plain your own emotional investment on this issue.
But, perhaps you shouldn’t be so quit to blame the messenger, and instead, contemplate the true message which is being communicated to you(ie. not your ad-hominem pretext).
@ Annelli
“If anything I would say stay away from highly and constantly insecure men—-they’re insecurities and jealousy just may drive them to cheat.”
If their insecurities have a basis in female rejection(and I’m betting they do), then this is an indication that they are *less* likely to cheat(ie owing to diminished opportunity), rather than the reverse.
Jadafisk 82
“No, it only makes him less likely to cheat, and more likely to make a long-term investment in any particular female.”
But why, when the actual ability for the most unattractive SO in the country to cheat is only restricted by his access to, perhaps 80 or so dollars and his level of personal aversion to legal risk?
Paragon 83
You are underestimating two factors here, I think.
First, the liability of being an acknowledged ‘john’ – which poses grave injury to a male’s reputation(to the extent of endangering his livelihood and welfare).
Second, you are underestimating the satisfaction of a mutually receptive mate(something that a woman can be excused in taking for granted).
Kira 84
I am willing to take the risk then! What these articles advocate is that women go for men they are not sexuallyattracted to. Imagine such suggestion made to men! Wht is the point of romantic relationship if the sex is a chore?
I will take the higher risk physically attractive men that turn me on for the possibilities of orgasms thank you! You win some you loose some I guess.
Kira 85
And to answer paragons question..what would be the justification for an article advocating men Mary or date uglier wOmen? Same as here – they’ll have less opportunities cheat! Or did you think women were never guilty of cheating? more opportunities for a female also increases the risk significantly. I am not just speculating either…I’m looking at my own relative where the betteR looking popular wife’s cheated constantly. Yet men would never be asked to lower their standard I
In thatdepartment because Dow dare you?
Helen 86
I agree with this. My boyfriend is a lot more attrative than me & he has cheated once that I know of, but tried to many more times. All the time they were younger & beautiful (as he said himself) & I am only 27. He is 25 though. I have always hated myself & now I have no confidence left at all because of him.
Karl R 87
Helen said: (#86)
“My boyfriend is a lot more attrative than me & he has cheated once that I know of, but tried to many more times.”
“now I have no confidence left at all because of him.”
Why haven’t you dumped him?
Julia 88
Yeah Helen, get out of that relationship
hespeler 89
In response to some of the posts here that assert men never are asked to lower their standards on physical attractiveness, I don’t think anything could be further from the truth. It’s highly stipulated that men are very visual and physical attractiveness is often our highest priority. This is backed by the common male refrain of I don’t care what she does for a living or how much she makes as long as she’s cool and sexy. It is further backed by the fact that men are socialized (at least in the Western world) to regard themselves as winners if they snag a beautiful mate.
If our highest priority is how a woman looks it would also stand to reason that it would be the area of which we are most picky. Therefore, if we want to settle into a relationship at some point, we may very well have to compromise a bit on how hot our woman is in our eyes. This is exacerbated by female choosiness which makes a male’s objective attractiveness irrelevant in a lot of cases, i.e., “I went out with a nice looking guy last night but I didn’t feel butterflies so I don’t think I’ll see him again.”
I work with a guy who I and a lot of others think is an objectively great-looking guy. He’s also very smart and successful. I’ve seen pictures of his wife who is decidely average in looks (not just my opinion). He’s also told me in sum and substance over a few drinks that he likes to go after the average looking girls because that’s what he knows he can get. “Give me a girl with stretch marks and C-section scars anyday.”
Now I’m not saying we severely compromise but the male propensity for sexual variety instills a “she’s pretty hot but she’s even hotter attitude.” I suspect this is very true for women as well.
Janina 90
In my early twenties I’ve dated 3 exceptionally handsome men and out of the 3, one was very gorgeous and very unfaithful. I married an average (by society’s standards) looking man. We’ve been married for 17 yrs now and I couldn’t have asked for a better life partner.
RealDeal 91
I am a very well rounded 33 year old male. I fall in the top one percent when considering height (6’5″), physical fitness (205 lbs solid muscle, run almost every day, work a very physically demanding construction job as a self-employed stonemason), intelligence (IQ-150, very creative with multiple fields of interest), penis size (8.5″ length), and attractiveness, rarely do I encounter women who do not seem interested in my appearance, some have told me I am the most attractive man they have ever seen and that I could have any woman I desire. I am a very skilled musician (singer/songwriter/guitarist), visual artist (capable of reproducing anything, whether painting, drawing, or working in three dimensions), and conversationalist. I read several books a year, mostly non-fiction, and have no reservations when it comes to public speaking or leading others. I am also great with people of all ages, especially children. What you likely wouldn’t guess, in light of my previous statements, is that I am in fact very humble and empathetic. I listed my attributes to prove a point. I live by a strict moral code and believe in complete honesty with myself and others. I would never cheat. I have been cheated on by women who chose men far less desirable than me for the affair. I believe adulterers to be flawed in character. People of quality take others feelings into account, selfish people do not. If any women would like advice on how to find a quality man, I would suggest looking for someone humble. The so called “nice guy” is likely to be confident and considerate, but not cocky. All too often cockiness in males is mistaken for confidence. The truly confident lack the insecurities that would drive someone to seek power, validation, status, or copious amounts of money and material wealth. You really can’t judge someone based on looks alone and men like me actually are out there, although we are likely few in numbers and have an equally difficult time finding a suitable companion.