Become the Woman that No Man Can Ever Leave

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I’m still buzzing from the email that I got from my former client, Michelle. And let me say, that Michelle is one of my favorite clients ever.

Always good-humored, always confident, always present – and, most importantly, always coachable, Michelle saw instant results in working with me.

She attracted a man who was different than her previous boyfriends – and that’s exactly what she needed. After all, Michelle will be the first to tell you that she’s a bit of a handful. And after dominating (and losing respect) for her last guy, she craved the attention of a man who was a little more alpha.

Men don’t stay with women who treat them as incomplete projects – they bond with women who make them feel good.

She got him – and she got all the problems that come with being with such a man.

She couldn’t tell him what to do.

She couldn’t make him say that he loved her fast enough.

She couldn’t ensure that he wanted to stick around for the future.

Although Mark treated her great, he was still very much a MAN. Early 50’s, successful, busy, a divorced father of a teenaged son, he felt very fortunate to have landed a 33-year-old stunner like Michelle.

All of the stories that Michelle told me reiterated how much he valued her, and at the time that she gave me this testimonial that’s on my Commitment Course page, she was in a great comfort zone with Mark.

He treated her well, he told her he loved her, he put up with her self-proclaimed “brattiness,” and he alluded to a future together.
But all relationships have their challenges, and Mark and Michelle were no different.

The elephant in the room for this couple was that Michelle very much wants to have kids, while Mark never really anticipated that he’d be a father again in his 50’s.

While I was coaching Michelle through the first four months of their relationship (and intermittently in between), I cautioned her to NOT put any pressure on him about getting married and having kids. While theoretically, she could be “wasting” her time with him, my advice was to let him fall in love with her.

If he did, she would have a lot more leverage when the baby talk came up, as opposed to trying to extract an answer out of him in the early stages of the relationship.

This worked like a charm. Because really, it was no secret that Michelle wanted to be a Mom, and since Mark was a man of integrity, he wanted to do right by his girlfriend. He agreed, last July, to be the future father of her children.

Then he changed his mind a few months later.

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107 Comments »Filed Under Understanding Men

107 Responses to “Become the Woman that No Man Can Ever Leave”

Boss 1

But its easier for a woman in her thirties than fifties – men once again are driven by age and looks.
Mia 2

This is a heartwarming story. I agree that we should all be the best partner we can be and not pressure, chase or nag a man. However, it’s just not true that if you’re a great partner a man will want to stick around. I’ve been exactly that woman to multiple men who still didn’t want a relationship with me. And I don’t think these man would have had anything particularly bad to say about me, they just weren’t in a place for a deeper relationship, it was bad timing, or didn’t feel a deeper connection.

This becomes even clearer when I swap dating stories with my many guy friends. I can think of four off the top of my head who recently dated people they kind of flaked out on. They would never be able to say these women did something WRONG — things just never developed, and they would be astonished if those women were crying into an ice cream dish wondering how they erred.

A lot of girls are so prone to thinking they did something wrong or weren’t good enough and that mentality will drive you into depression. Just follow what I consider to be the better part of Evan’s dating advice: push through rejection, continue going on dates. The right guy will appreciate your good qualities.
Nicole 3

Wow! What a beautiful story. Gives me hope that everything happens for a reason. I’m glad there was a happy ending, by the way!!!
Maya 4

Aww, need to hear more happy endings!
Mona 5

LOL. He’s 20 years older than a self admitted sexy stunner. It took him ONE WEEK of partying with his cronies to realize he’d never find another like her.

I reallllly loved this story and hope against hope that it works out for her but I feel a divorce is in the future before that baby is 2 years old.

I wish her all the best but I sense that her dominating tendencies WILL come out eventually and he WILL also realize he can get another younger woman if he’s so rich, powerful and confident – and he’s stuck with a nag. Unless he’s tired of “the game” and wants to “retire” eventually. In that case: true change is AMAZING and RARE and GOOD FOR THEM.

I hope they make it last…

I started reading this blog even before my divorce was final, took some time, then dated. I do everything Evan says and can have handfuls of men at my disposal – but are they the ones I want? Personally my feminine energy I think freaks some men out. I’m VERY domestic. They come to have a dinner made for them Date X and are astounded at how gracious and warm I am…why does this scare them off? I have made NOT ONE GESTURE toward a future with them – yet they see my beautiful life as something I somehow want to “foist” on them.

Ummmmm other way around. Yes I am lonely at times but no way will I settle ever again like I did with my first husband. I’m a feminine, submissive gracious female who just wants a man to love and care for and mutual respect. My best friend David says that I scare them WITH my competence. NO not an “alpha” female. I’m very very feminine. I just think 14 years of marriage at a young age made me WAY more domestic than the average career woman 33 year old. Men are terrified they can’t “measure up” is what I hear.

Believe me I date allllll types as I feel I HAVE “no” type. Yanno? I am now trying TO Figure that out. I’ve dated multi millionaire attorney types and also younger philosophy student types with not a penny to their name. LOL. I am looking for my best friend and that’s sooo hard to find nowadays.

Anyhow: still wish the OP success but somehow my jadedness is coming to the fore – not sure what it is but something about the story struck me as almost too cliche. Sorry.
maria 6

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Evan. I wish I could be just “so happy for Michelle.”
Why, exactly, are we supposed to be happy for a 33 year old who is about to become the “Trophy Wife” of a 50-something Alpha male who wouldn’t even consider a woman closer to his own age??
It is all about her looks and her youth and has absolutely nothing to do with who she is inside.
You have said in the past that men are completely superficial and this is definitely more proof!
I have a 51 year old wealthy friend who is going through this right now, his beautiful 30 year old girlfriend is pressuring him for marriage and children, and his divorce isn’t even final!!
He is so concerned with impressing his friends with her youth and her looks, however, that he is allowing himself to be talked into another marriage before his 1st one is even over!!
I find all of this very sad and disturbing and I am sorry to say that I am in no way happy for Michelle.
Just my opinion…like Mona, I have seen too much, and this story IS a “Trophy Wife” cliche.
She is his plaything to show off to his friends, and I agree with Mona..there is a divorce in the future, unless he gets sick and needs a nursemaid.
Fiona 7

This woman has ended up with a man old enough to be her own father with baggage so no success story. I am surprised she needed a dating coach to manage to find this relationship. It sounds like my worst nightmare.

A “success” story in my book would be an alpha woman who meets an alpha man in more or less the same age group not alpha woman settles for alpha man old enough to be her father or alpha woman ends up stuck being bread winner for beta man of similar age who is incapable of it.
Evan Marc Katz 8

@Fiona and @Maria - I’m sad for you that you have such bitterness towards the world that you are willing to publicly rain on someone else’s parade.

It is certainly not your place to say, Maria, that he doesn’t love her for who she is on the inside. I know her very well and she’s BEAUTIFUL on the inside. You have absolutely no idea what’s going on in his life or why he chose her. How can you say that she’s merely a trophy wife for him to show off when you’ve neither met him or her? That’s right. You can’t.

And Fiona, Michelle didn’t “settle” at ALL. She had run through a series of beta boyfriends that she didn’t respect and finally found a MAN that was worthy of her. I’m going to her wedding with my wife in July. And whether you’d want to date an older man or not is entirely irrelevant: both parties, I can assure you, are extremely happy.

To sum up, you can both leave this blog right now. The world needs more women like Michelle. It needs a lot fewer haters like you.
Liz 9

What I took of it, was this women found a man she was interested in, remained happy with herself so that she could show that to him, and when it became clear he was waffling on children walked away gracefully. Any women will have one conflict with a man, whether it be brattiness, or something else. If there is only one thing about your character you compromise in a relationship that is a good sign. Walking away from a kind, loving, successful, and attractive man, no matter what his age is, is difficult. Good for her, she did it with grace, on a non-negotiable point, and he came back. She allowed him to cherish her, and when she was gone he realized he missed her. This is all very hard, to walk forward, and not know if he will snap back. It is very hard to trust your heart and the process of a man like this falling in love. They won’t gush feeling, they won’t make lots of promises for the future, (because their promises are important and not to be taken lightly) and they have to realize they are in love, which takes time.
Ileana 10

Hey, Evan. This one bit in your article that confused me a little:

‘Every time she wanted to criticize him for how he handled his relationship with his son, or his ex-wife, or his boss, she remembered that men don’t stay with women who treat them as incomplete projects – they bond with women who make them feel good.’

Ok, so what DID she do then? Did she just fight her instinct of trying 2 help him in certain areas of his life by making a few observations? Does this mean that we shouldn’t give advice to men unsolicited? I have the feeling that i am walking a fine line here… – so, if he was a terrible dad, did she just shut up?…

I know this might be a bit much to ask, but could you please enlighten me here?

BTW, I personally feel happy for Michelle- reluctant, but happy. I just hope she didn’t settle for Mark… Other than that, congrats
nikoletta 11

You say to Maria and Fiona to leave the blog because the world needs a lot fewer haters like them.. Really? In my opinion the world needs people who feel free to express their different opinions. Personally, i generally enjoy your articles a lot, but your answer this time doesn’t sound so democratic to me.
tammy 12

I feel that women like Michelle are a dime a dozen, especially in the world of 50-something divorced Alpha males looking for a younger, very beautiful second wife. Some cynics call them “Gold-diggers,” but in this case, I will give your girl the benefit of the doubt and wish her well! I hope that he gets a Pre-Nup, though, if he is that wealthy!
Evan Marc Katz 13

@nikoletta – The world does need people to express their different opinions. I was just so personally offended by their ignorance – and genuinely upset that they’d dare insult my friend and client – that I decided to kick them both out of my house. America may be a democracy. My blog is not.
Evan Marc Katz 14

@Ileana - Yes, don’t give unsolicited advice to men. If you don’t like how he is as a father, boyfriend or human being, go find another guy. If he asks for your feedback because something’s not working, you can be sure to give him your constructive criticism. It’s exactly how you’d like to be treated, by the way.
lisa 15

Evan,
With all due respect, this girl seems to be more of a “friend” than a “client.” Maybe a relative? I can’t think of any other reason for your violently irrational response to Maria and Fiona. Maybe your closeness to this person blinds you to the fact that from the outside, this really does sound like just another 30 – something pretty girl, (with the added help of BRILLIANT COACHING), snagging another wealthy 50-something Alpha male who wants a Trophy Wife… baby or no baby. Maybe step back and take a breath? I wish them all the best, by the way!
Julia 16

This was a wonderful read! Wish her a BIG congrats.

It DOES show that a strong, successful, and confident woman (with all the personality that comes with that) can find someone of the same temperament by changing how they interact in the relationship. She became his complement.

Thank you Evan for your responses. I was getting upset reading all the negativity! It’s ironic that this happens whenever you post a new and happy beginning.

I believe that if you are struggling in the dating world and this post about her transformation only confuses you, you have a few options. Join Evan’s coaching service, change the way you see yourself and dating, or be negative. If you aren’t positive and happy in your current life then it will come through in the dating. (See Evan’s past post)

This shows that with positive coaching, a change in attitude, and a commitment to love (finding it in another and yourself), you can forge a healthy, committed relationship.
Evan Marc Katz 17

Nope @lisa – she’s just a client. We’ve never met in person. Probably spent 20 hours on the phone over a couple of years. And regardless of what it “sounds like” to you, since you have absolutely zero knowledge of the parties involved, your opinion is not only irrelevant, but flat-out wrong. We’re talking about a very happy and compatible couple here.

You can offer dissents to my dating advice all you want, but when it comes time to insulting someone? Me? My wife? My clients? You’re gone.
Zaq 18

I’m sorry, but I do not see a problem here.
A high value woman (she looks more like 26 than 33) and a high value (read confident wealthy mature male) are perfectly suited.

They both get something out of the relationship that they want and I am sure they both sincerely love each other, despite what many women here want to believe.
The talk of “trophy” and “gold digging” is just jealous nonsense.

The only thing I find annoying is that I usually get stamped on for “not getting it”. Sorry, I DO get it.
linda 19

@Zaq,
Spoken like a true, gloves off (women over a certain age have “low” value) male, and NO, ZAQ, you certainly DON’T get it. The insensitivity and blindness of your view go way beyond this particular couple’s story.
sandra 20

Evan. Love and read your blog. But,I want to comment. The two “haters” have their own views, based on their own emotions. Obvious to an intelligent person (including me is that their comments are not based on knowledge of Michelle or her situation, but, which seem stem from their own (unknown to us) hurt.
I see no reason to take such harsh action; to ban them.
I would hope that we might try to reach them on the level they require, with compassion and a desire to connect, a hope to help them heal.
helene 21

Well, at the risk of getting thrown off the blog, I have to say this sounds a bit like the phenomenon in the film “He’s just not that into you…” one of those urban myth type scenarios where someone’s cousin’s friend walked away from a guy who wasnb’t delivering what she felt she deserved then he comes crawling back (in the rain) clutching flowers and declaring undying love… I’m not saying it didn’t happen – I’m sure it did – but as the film points out, this is the EXCEPTION and not the rule. As such, this sort of story is unhelpful rather than helpful to the average dater. It is not BECAUSE this woman did x y or z that things worked out for her – quite simply, the Gods smiled on her. That’s great for her, but fosters unrealistic expectations in others, and causes those who don’t get their “happy ending” to end up feeling they did something wrong. I too was with a (younger) guy who said he wanted to have kids with me then changed his mind (even though he was the one who wanted kids!) as it “wasn’t the right time ” for him. I broke up with him as I felt that ultimately he would leave me when it WAS the right time – for someone still young enough to give him the kids he wanted. I walked away. He didn’t come back. No flowers in the rain for me. Not trying to rain on anyone’s parade….just sayin’.
Evan Marc Katz 22

@sandra - Three things:

1) I appreciate your compassion. It’s a nice sentiment and it says a lot about you.

2) My entire career is helping women understand and connect with men. And after 9 years of doing this, I’ve learned that if someone has that much irrational bitterness or hatred towards strangers, or such a skewed view of life based on previous hurts, it’s not within my capacity to “help them heal” in a hundred word blog comment.

3) I would rather have no readers than readers who think that they can spew negativity and venom under the name of “democracy”. Not all speech is created equal. Not all view points are equal. I have access to facts about this inspiring couple. Maria and Fiona did not. So while I feel bad that they’re such sad and angry people that they’d begin to slander a happy bride whose wedding is in less than a month, I don’t have the patience or tolerance to show them the error of their ways. I do hope that they find their way and I wish them all the best. Everyone deserves love. Even 52 year old men who want to marry women in their 30′s.
Ruby 23

Linda #19

This is exactly why women get pissed off when they hear stories like Michelle’s, because they are too often told that women of a certain age are of “low value”. Most of EMK’s clients are older than the woman in the story, and these are the very women who struggle to find a good guy their own age. In Zaq’s view, the 33 year has even higher value because he assumes that she looks “more like 26.” Apparently, even 33 isn’t young enough.

If Michelle is truly happy, that’s fine, but with the dating struggles and constant barrage of “over the hill” messages, I can understand why it doesn’t make many of us “low value” types feel so great.
Evan Marc Katz 24

@Helene, if you’re not insulting me or people I know, you can say whatever you want here. But I still disagree with your point. What Michelle did was exactly what I taught her – and it was the difference between her getting married and remaining single. She didn’t pressure him. She didn’t give him false ultimatums. She spent a year and a half being the best girlfriend she could be and showed him what his life would be like if he stayed with her. When he waffled on kids, she walked. And after a week without her, he decided that he wanted to be with her for the rest of his life.

The fact that your guy didn’t come back doesn’t mean you did something wrong. It just means it was the wrong guy. But by learning to understand men and be a great girlfriend, you significantly increase your odds of having a man WANT to commit to you. Which is why all the Rori Raye Circular Dating nonsense drives me up a wall. If you pressure him for a ring after 8 months, he’s not marrying you. If you start dating other men, he’s not marrying you. If you start freaking out about your biological clock, he’s not marrying you. Let him fall in love with you, give him a great girlfriend experience and let him choose you. And if he doesn’t, it’s his loss and it’s NOT YOUR FAULT.

And @Ruby – you can ignore Zaq. Are men attracted to younger women? Sure. Duh. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t MILLIONS of women in their 40′s, 50′s, 60′s and 70′s finding love each year. Don’t fall into that all or nothing trap because some guy paints a picture of a black/white world where women can no longer be attractive after a certain age.
linda 25

@ RUBY #23
Thank you so much for your understanding!!! You GET IT!! :):)
Brenda 26

I love reading this blog and have learned so much from Evan, especially his “Why He Disappeared” book. I was married for many many years before divorcing at 38. At that point I had two girls to raise and had to learn to date all over again…and it was often painful. Fast forward to now…I’m 47 years old and having the dating time of my life. I’m the successful businesswoman that Evan talks about. I can definitely be in charge, but love to let someone take care of me in a relationship. At this point, I’m in a relationship with a 50 year old, very successful, tall, dark, handsome, charming, generous man. It can happen. We’ve been together about 18 months. He tells me how lucky he is to have found me. He wants to make this permanent. I’m not sure what I’ll decide at this point; however, its MY choice. So Evan’s coaching (although just through the blog and the book) along with my dating experiences have made me successful. And I have had many options in my own age range. Take heart ladies…you are NOT low value. Never let anyone tell you different. We all just need to realize our own value and have confidence that the men in our lives will realize it too. And take (most of) Evan’s advice.
Ruby 27

EMK #24

This is not about you, your family, or the quality of your dating advice. Your advice to Michelle was fine. It’s just that most of us are more inspired by the success story of the over-40 woman who needs your advice much more than did relatively young, gorgeous, successful Michelle, obstinate and bratty (and only a fairly young woman can get away with being “bratty”), though she may be. The wealthy older man/beautiful younger woman story is fairly predictable and cliched.

My boyfriend, who’s 2 years younger than me, dated plenty of women much younger than me, but for a variety of reasons, those relationships didn’t work. Thankfully, he wasn’t hung up on a number, though, and can appreciate me even though I’m not under 40. In fact, some of the things he does appreciate about me have to do with the fact that we are close in age, and have had similar life experiences and values. It doesn’t get talked about much here, but that fact alone becomes increasingly important to many of us as we get older.

I hope this blog will continue to be a place where all of us can – respectfully – speak our minds.
Selena 28

This story may be heartwarming to middle age men who believe stunning young women should be eager to be with them…but for women, of any age, who want partners within their own generation.. probably not so much.

Twenty years is a pretty big difference when one is not long out of their 20′s. Best of luck to Michelle. 5, 10 years from now she may be re-thinking the wisdom of this decision.
Zaq 29

I am being insensitive.
I am being insensitive to point out that most men are attracted to younger women.
I am being insensitive to point out that women are attracted to high status men.
I am being insensitive to point out that short, unemployed men are very low value. I don’t see much anger from women here about that.
I am appalled that all the above is true. It just is.

Yes, it isn’t all or nothing. There IS still hope for men and women who may not be in the top league. But if you will not face up to your true worth to the opposite sex, how are you going to be realistic in your expectations ?
Nathan 30

Personally, I find comments like Zaqs more offensive than those of the two women who accurately pointed out a common phenomenon. Evan’s client sounds like she beat the odds, and I am happy for her if that’s the case. But I would say that the story is instructive based on her general approach to the relationship – not the atypical relationship itself. I love a quirky success story – given that I’m quirky and non-mainstream myself – but I totally understand the doubts coming from women commenting here. Because more often than not, relationships between significantly older men and younger women don’t last. And since a child will be involved soon, it probably raises even more concerns.
Evan Marc Katz 31

@Ruby – Are you on my mailing list? I sure hope so. Because Tuesday, I sent out a story of a 75 year old client who worked with me on and off since 2006 and she’s finally found the love of her life. Quite inspiring, no? Yet I barely received any email about it. It was the most incredible story about the power of perseverance, yet it’s my belief that way too many people are jealous of happy people who worked hard and achieved. Why? Because it’s an undeniable reminder of their own failings. That’s not even the point. The point is that if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it. I only went on here to defend Michelle and her fiance because the criticism of them was entirely invalid. So if you find more hope when I tell the story of an older woman, great. Don’t hate on a younger woman who found happiness her own way. With coaching, she got over being bratty and found love. That’s why I shared her story. (Oh, and for what it’s worth – less than 5% of marriages have a 10 year plus age gap, so it’s not really THAT cliched.)

I truly believe that jealousy is a huge underlying factor in the way people deal with success. It’s the Tall Poppy theory in Australia. Let’s cut down the person who is happy. Tom Cruise jumps on a couch because he’s in love. Let’s rip him apart! I’m just not wired that way. If something makes you happy and you’re not hurting anybody else, god bless you.

I don’t get people who slander someone on the internet, write negative book reviews, mock Facebook for its stock going down, or anything that resembles schadenfreude. It’s simply not becoming. As long as the happy successful person is not preventing YOU from being happy and successful, then we should all get along just fine.

Strangers on the internet have made fun of my looks, my voice, my business, my marriage, and my advice, because they don’t know me at all. I don’t give a crap. I’m doing important work here. Plus, I can defend myself. Michelle can’t. So instead of letting some whiny jealous women tear her down as a Trophy Wife, I did exactly what I’d hope you’d do for someone you care about – I defended her and kicked out the bullies. Because I can.

Finally, the banned commenters didn’t speak their minds respectfully. Which is why they’re gone. This is my home and I don’t need it polluted with ignorance.
Ileana 32

@ Evan #14: Thanks for the reply. It is just soo disturbing that us women seem to be hardwired to try and ‘help’ or ‘fix’ men, no matter what… Ugh!
Helen 33

In this story, what concerns me is not their age differential, nor any aspects of their personalities – as long as they love each other, that is what really matters. No, what concerns me is the man’s (completely reasonable) reluctance to become a father to infants again in his 50s.

Has he really made peace with this possibility? There aren’t enough facts in this story for us to say. I for one understand his reluctance. It’s hard enough being a parent to very young children when you’re in your 30s or 40s, when you’re relatively healthy and energetic; imagine what it would be like in your 50s. Also, some teenagers are very well-behaved, but others are a nightmare, and does anyone really want to deal with those issues when he’s in his 60s? Finally, who wants to still be paying college tuition when he’s in his 70s and should already be retired?

I feel cautious about this notion suggested in the story that “Love conquers all” – he loved her so much that he just had to have her in his life. I fear this exact elephant-in-the-room is going to surface again after they are married and the time comes that Michelle wants children. This is NOT something to be swept under the rug. They need to have discussions about all aspects of who will assume primary care under such and such conditions, and what to do about finances in keeping with their own interests as well as the kids’.
Mia 34

About the age difference — well, it does seem foolish at first glance for a woman who will probably still be an attractive 40something in a decade just as her husband starts getting on Medicare and will eventually die decades before her. But it’s none of our business if that’s what makes this woman happy.

What annoys me about some of these comments on dating market value is how simplistic they are — actually high value people aren’t intensely focused on looks and money. Meaning, an attractive woman of really quality character who would make a good wife isnt wowed by a guy just bc he has money and is older — a woman of real worth can support herself and only asks that her man have a stable job and career and meet some minimal threshold, say 50k.

Likewise, a man who’s marriage material – the kind who doesn’t ditch you when you put on a few pounds and gray hairs — isn’t all hung up on a woman JUST bc she’s pretty. He can get a pretty girl anytime – theyre a dime a dozen and beauty fades – and wants more.
Mia 35

To clarify, just something I’ve observed, it’s often the more average, beta, insecure men who think the prize is a pretty young woman, and it’s often the average or older women who are hung up on a guys financial success. These betas of both genders lack confidence and need to seek out superficial qualities in mates. Attractive, accomplished people have often dated enough people and have enough choices to not get hung up on superficialities.
Tom 36

The point of this blog Zaq is to help women find a relationship with a partner who’s their equal. I don’t think telling them that they’re of ‘low value’ in order to recognise their market value is very helpful in achieving this. If anything it’ll only reduce their confidence thus making them less attractive.

Besides as Mia says many men have a broader definition of a woman’s ‘value’ than the criteria you define.
Julia 37

My genuine concern is that the happiness of their CHOICE is being ignored.

I’m sure they discussed the age difference. I’m sure they discussed the potential successes and pitfalls of raising children later in life. They’re both adults. I’m SURE that both are none of our business. And wasn’t asked about for advice. No offense to those that gave it.

Both are old enough to discuss the gain in living their lives together. For HIM, the previous non-negotiable of no children wasn’t strong enough to outweigh the loss of not having her in his life. It isn’t simply that love conquers all. It’s that, in this case, love and commitment overcame his reasonable concerns. Which was his choice.

We should take from this article the positives of the methods and the success that she achieved.
Nathan 38

Evan, as a former book reviewer, it was my job to give must opinion on books. I rarely wrote what might be labeled negative reviews,but I was critical of certain aspects of some books. And my situation benefited from the fact that I chose what to write about – many reviewers are just handed the lastest hot thing and told to say something.

More to the point, I totally agree with you about the ugliness of jealousy. And yet, the majority of critical comments aren’t about jealousy in my opinion. The personalized attacks you reacted to could have been and there isn’t any defense for that kind of nastiness.

But mostly, I see folks bringing up valid questions and concerns about the particular relationship. Again, I think a lot of what Michelle chose to do is a good example for all of us. Furthermore, I am glad Evan is pointing out how ridiculous the high pressured Rori Raye approach and others like it are. But in the end, Michelles story isn’t as inspiring as – for example – Evan’s 75 year old client’s story. Having helped a friend almost the same age set up a dating profile and find her life partner three years ago (on Ok Cupid of all places), I think more of those stories need to be out there.
Zann 39

I have to agree with Ruby (#27) 100%. And even though I don’t agree with everything written in the comments above, I don’t see anything I would classify as “hateful.”

Evan: If you want to remove comments that are truly hateful, racist, cruel, you have every right to do that. Like you say, it’s your blog. But as a long-time reader and commenter, I find a lot of value, humor, and sometimes great comfort in the comments other people make, even though there are some that make me furious. If you start banning or discouraging people from sharing opinions that are not in alignment with your own, you’ll wind up only hearing from the people who agree with you on everything. Is that really what you want? If you sincerely would rather have no audience than an audience that is opinionated, obnoxious, foolish, challenging, BRATTY, narrow-minded, insecure, jealous, complex, compelling, and hilarious (ie, human) — all I can say is that will become really boring really fast. Overall, I think your readers/commenters provide some of the most thoughtful feedback I’ve seen on any blog related to dating/relationships. And I think a lot of that is because of the quality of your own content and your ability to communicate your subject with a balance of humor, intelligence, and straight shooting.

As for Michelle and her man, they’re gonna go on to have their lives and loves and battles regardless of what anyone says in these comments. We don’t know them personally, so anything we say about them is not personal. We’re only reacting to the situation as you present it to us.

In my opinion — and of course I have one — I would be wary if I were Michelle. I was feeling very good about both of these people and found their determination to stick to their convictions and “the long view” to be inspiring. They made hard choices. But how does a man do a complete flip-flop on something as crucial as childbearing in one week? It’s not that he now wants more children, he simply doesn’t want to lose the woman. And in my opinion that’s just not a good reason for bringing kids into the world.

Lastly, I’m over 50 and believe I’m a better partner now than I’ve ever been. If men in my age group can’t see the value in sharing life with a woman of equal experience in the world — someone who remembers The Angry 60s, Woodstock, Vietnam, The Pill, Nixon’s banishment, etc. — that’s their choice and, frankly, their loss. It doesn’t mean I want to rain on a younger woman’s parade out of jealousy — hey, we all get our chance at being young once — but I do question the wisdom of choosing a man old enough to be your father to father your children. Call it sour grapes if you want, but I call it just plain common sense.
Evan Marc Katz 40

@Zann – I know you’ve been with me for nearly 5 years, so I respect your opinion and thank you for your comments.

As you probably know, I let 99% of comments through. And as you pointed out, that’s exactly WHY you enjoy reading. If this were just an echo chamber of people agreeing with me, it wouldn’t be the community it is.

So I don’t censor opinions or debates where the commenter disagrees with me. In fact, I’m guessing that out of any relationship blog you can find on the entire internet I probably have more readers who actively dislike me and my opinions. That’s because I let them all through.

But when something bleeds into a personal attack – she’s a gold digger, he’s looking for a trophy wife – I draw the line. Especially if it’s someone I know.

Michelle didn’t come to this blog to ask you her opinion of her relationship. If she did – if this were a reader question – I might be more lenient. But she didn’t. She entrusted me with her love life. She listened to my advice. She found love. And if you think for a second that I didn’t offer the exact same cautions that you are – about him being the old dad – you’re crazy. But THEY decided that this is what THEY wanted to do. Far be it from me to suggest that they haven’t considered every aspect of what their future will look like together.

Frankly, I hate the way this post has been hijacked. This is a beautiful story of two people in love and the only thing I was hoping people would say was “How amazing. It’s good to see that people can grow and change and find happiness.” And then came the haters. And the doubters. I just don’t like the tone or the sentiment. So if you think that this one instance of me stifling debate (which isn’t a debate – my client is HAPPY) is enough to scare you away from reading this blog and commenting, I’m perfectly willing to deal with the consequences.

I stand up for what I believe in and I don’t need to see my client being slandered by misinformed strangers who are upset that a 50 year old man didn’t choose a woman his own age. Get over it. There are plenty of men left for you.

Julia #37 is the one who got it right. Thanks for seeing the happiness in their mutual choice and how it’s a triumph, not a “worst nightmare” as suggested by Fiona #7.

Finally, will they be married forever? I couldn’t possibly say. But as of right now, I’m rooting for these two crazy kids. I would hope that you are too.
Ruby 41

EMK #31

Do you generally get responses to your mass emails? I would think not. I am on your list, and saw the story about the 75 year old. Yes, it was inspiring and very sweet. Try posting something like that on your blog, and see what happens.

Despite the fact that less than 5% of marriages have a 10 year plus age gap, it sure gets talked up all the time, presented in films and on television as if it’s pretty common, and some sort of Holy Grail for men.

“The point is that if you have nothing nice to say, don’t say it?” I’ve read numerous of posts on this blog that are denigrating to women and they don’t get called out for it. Maybe they are not targeting a specific woman like Michelle, but they put down all women, especially those who are older.
Nathan 42

Evan the varied responses here array basically the norm for relationships like Michelle’s. I once was her, dating a woman 17 years older than me. It was the same thing. A few were genuinely happy. Others offered concerns and doubts. And still others thought I was crazy or she was, or both. Turns out in our case that some of those concerns were dead on. It would have been nice to be surrounded by less negativity, but at the same time, I wasn’t seeing the situation clearly. So, some of that actually was helpful to hear repeatedly, even though I didn’t want to hear it.

Julia’s comment makes total sense to me, except for the children piece. I have to agree with Zann that it seems like he is just trying to keep Michelle around. Which doesn’t mean he can’t be a good father and husband, but it does make a lot of us wonder. Sometimes, ambivalence is overcome once a child is born. Other times, it’s the wedge that breaks everything in two.
sarahrahrah! 43

Wow. I’m really shocked by all of the negativity in these posts.

Dear people who likely pride themselves on their open-mindedness: shouldn’t you also be open to the idea that Michelle and her fiancee are rational people who truly love each other and know what they’re getting into? Aren’t they INDIVIDUALS with unique characteristics and qualities UNLIKE anyone else??? How, then, can people predict anything about them based on STEREOTYPES?

Doing so is no different than making assumptions about individuals because of their RACE or ETHNICITY. I’m not down with that and I hope that the readers on this site aren’t either.

A note to Michelle: don’t let others rain on your parade and CONGRATULATIONS on your engagement. May you continue to have many more years of happiness as you thoughtfully and consciously relate to your partner! Thank you for graciously allowing Evan to share your story with the rest of us.
susan 44

Its an awesome story on the face of it. Who cares about the age difference. And so he realised he was in love with her, attitude and all. that’s just awesome.
But the children thing. Oh I hope that ones been settled, or there’s gonna be a messy breakup sooner or later.
I wish them all the best, truly I do, but that is a BIG deal.
EMK please keep us up to date on this one if you can. I”d love to hear a real life story of how someone has reconciled this kind of deal breaker.
Zaq 45

Well I for one think they are a perfect match, and wish them all success in the future.
Selena 46

EMK #40:
“Michelle didn’t come to this blog to ask you her opinion of her relationship.”

No she didn’t. She didn’t come to this blog at all. You chose to use her as an example of how taking your advice ‘works’ to get a proposal.

Given the articles you have written about age differences in partners, and the commentary generated from those articles, it’s surprising you would use her story as an example. More surprising, YOU are surprised most of your readers aren’t finding the story inspiring – one would have thought after 5 years you would know your audience better.

The negativity isn’t an attack on Michelle, it’s a reflection on what most female readers wouldn’t want: a man a generation older – a man who would reluctantly agree to have children even though he didn’t want them.
Clare 47

I agree with Tom, this whole thing of “high value, low value” doesn’t seem constructive. It is completely subjective. What is attractive to one may not be attractive to another. And the same goes for age. Why get hung up about what we cannot change, ie. our age and the way we generally look? We are best off loving ourselves and projecting a confident vibe that the right person will find you desirable (which actually enables us to love other people better).

By the way Evan, bravo to you for having the fortitude to take so much negativity from strangers, I know I could not. I think it would be wonderful if we could all be supportive to one another when someone finds true love and happiness, as Michelle and Mark seem to have done. Generosity of spirit and positivity towards others are *attractive* qualities after all.

I think the story was a lovely demonstration about how imperfect people and an imperfect situation can nevertheless result in a happy ending because two people loved each other enough. Congrats!
Helen 48

Evan, while I, too, love your blog and reading both your entries and other commenters’ responses, I was as surprised as others by your responses to this particular set of comments.

As Nathan and Zann stated above, the women’s comments don’t strike me as hateful at all. For the most part, they also don’t seem jealous, although I will not rule that possibility out. They were just being as blunt and honest as commenters usually are on your blog – we are used to that level of bluntness; you have always allowed it (thank you) and it has made for some great discussions. To kick them off for doing what they usually do and what they usually see on here seems extreme. Perhaps a warning instead, such as you’ve given others?

Besides, what has been shared about this couple’s story raises red flags even in those who have no stake in this; those who want to see happy couples and happy stories and are already happily married (e.g., me). As I stated above, and Zann reinforced, the man changing his mind in a week about something as life-altering as having children in a late stage in life is baffling, and honestly troubling. Without knowing more, I just want to advise them to talk about all possibilities in the future about who will take care of what, especially if he needs medical care at the same time they’re going to college. That’s not raining on a parade. That’s being practical to ensure them the smoothest road possible.
Helen 49

Also Evan, I see in your fifth paragraph of #40 that you make a distinction between reader questions and your clients’ stories. Now that you point it out, I can respect the difference between how these two should be responded to in general. But please understand that your readers generally wouldn’t have thought that they would have to change the tone of their comments for one type of entry vs. another – by and large, to us, an entry is an entry.
Tina 50

Hi,

I’m a girl who wants to say something about this story – How amazing story!!

I wish myself such kind love and i believe that love can exist between people of all ages.

And I feel sorry that it looks like many people lost their faith in love.

best regards,
Tina
AllenB 51

Congrats to Michelle and her beau! I wish them happiness forever.
Joe 52

A few people get it, but the vast majority of you are missing the forest for the trees. The point of Evan’s post was not to show that 30-something women can grab 50-something men. The point was to illustrate that a woman who isn’t getting what she wants can walk away gracefully, and eventually end up getting what she wants.

@ Mia #34:
What you say just isn’t true. In general, alpha women do want alpha men. If they didn’t, Evan would still be working dead-end jobs, making $30k/year instead of being a successful dating coach telling these women to be a little less restrictive and find love.

The fact is that Zaq is right, as he bluntly spells it all out in #29, even if y’all don’t want to admit it.
amy 53

I was a 39 year old woman who was helped by Evan’s advice. Evan wrote that that the pool of people you can date is *only* limited to those people who liked you. I was floored by that. I thought I had the whole world at my feet, but really I only had the men who were into me. And instead of chasing those others, that I had chased all my life, I let the guy who liked me in.
He was four years older than me, divorced, no kids, smart, kind, funny, talented, masculine, a musician turned businessman. Yes, the WHOLE package!!
I followed Evan’s blog throughout the relationship. Worked on not being too critical, just loving and enjoying him. We got engaged after 18 months and married in September. I was 41 and he was 45.
Is that demographic good enough for y’all?
Evan has great advice. I didn’t have to “change who I was” but just had to change my focus and be my best self, which yes, I still work on in marriage. I still work on not being too controlling or critical (and still read Evan’s blog).
So thank you, Evan!
And to all the women who have been hurt, disappointed, rejected, I hope you can imagine a different future for yourselves, and move yourselves to that future.
Evan Marc Katz 54

Two things I will acknowledge:

1) I had a quick trigger finger with Maria and Fiona.
2) Per Helen’s last post, people are accustomed to saying whatever they want here, so I shouldn’t be surprised that people did just that. My reaction was based on the fact that this isn’t some stranger asking a question, but rather someone who followed my advice into the love of her life.

Which brings me to the last thing that I would like to say about this – and it’s directed at the haters, not the skeptics. Skepticism is always a reasonable stance. I didn’t post this to invite skepticism, naturally. I posted it because I was thrilled and I thought this was a beautiful story. And while perhaps I should have known better – in Selena’s words – I just didn’t imagine that people would take this opportunity to cast a negative light on a happy tale. But then again, it’s the internet. What could I expect?

Personally, I don’t get angry, comment, post, or snipe when someone else finds what he/she is looking for. It has nothing to do with me. Good for them. Clearly, there are some folks who feel otherwise – those who think that it’s right, classy, or justified to tell someone else that her choice in mates is wrong simply because you wouldn’t choose that mate.

Selena, it’s completely irrelevant if YOU wouldn’t want an older man. Michelle did. If you weren’t inspired the way I hoped, I would think the decent thing to do would be to say nothing. Complaining about someone else’s choices that have nothing to do with you is a waste of time, like complaining that the old man on the bus has bad fashion sense or that your boyfriend likes broccoli while you can’t stand the stuff. There’s nothing constructive about it, since it’s not YOUR choice. That’s why I let the skeptics through and am getting rid of the haters. And really, if you’re someone who criticizes someone else for being happy, I can really stand to do without you in my life.
Kathleen 55

I very much agree with Zanns post #39

The most memorable and inspiring story to me that I loved reading was that of the 75 year old woman Ive told several of may friends about it. I agree that Ive seen many posts that put down older women as “low value” so I appreciated so much hearing about her success.
Nathan 56

I would have been totally happy for them without reservation had the child issue not been present. Age differences are a challenge, but I really wishpeople would stop using them as a means to divide and discriminate.

However, even if it works out for them, it’s just difficult to swallow the idea that this guy did a 180 about having children and is fully willing to be a father again. I don’t understand why questioning that aspect of the story is so upsetting or disappointing. I have not lost my faith in love, nor am I given to spreading negativity. At the end of the day, though, love alone doesn’t carry a relationship in the long run.
Selena 57

Evan,
I had a partner 15 years my senior for long time. You’re correct: it IS irrelevant to me.

If you go back and read your own articles and comments however, you may find not wanting an older man is relevant to your readers, especially the younger ones. You once told a 54 yr. old man seeking a 20 years younger women to have children with, women that age seek peers. And you went on to list reasons why.

Consider how much more effective an example this would be if the couple were around the same age. If both were in their early/mid-30′s you could point to: “See ladies, there are commitment oriented men in their 30′s – just be patient and don’t put pressure on them.”

Or if both people were in their 50′s: “See ladies, not all men well into middle age are looking for women young enough to be their daughters. Don’t get discouraged.” Can you see how your comment section would be very different?

Most of your (female) readers don’t relate to the May/December love story because as you yourself have pointed out before, they prefer peers. Twenty years is not only not being peers, it’s being in entirely different generations.

Nothing against Michelle & Mark, may they have a long and prosperous life together.
Evan Marc Katz 58

@Selena “Consider how much more effective an example this would be if the couple were around the same age. If both were in their early/mid-30′s you could point to: “See ladies, there are commitment oriented men in their 30′s – just be patient and don’t put pressure on them.”

It’s the same fucking story! Men are men. This works if you’re 30, 50 or 70. Or if you want a man 30, 50, or 70. Any comment that ignores that point – the REAL point of the post – that Michelle was a dating rockstar who found love – is irrelevant. Doesn’t matter if you don’t want a 50 year old man, if you don’t think they’ll last, or if you think that somehow, in 2 1/2 years they’ve never discussed the ramifications of having children.

These are happy people. Give it a rest, y’all.

If this doesn’t relate to you because you would never choose an older man, then don’t say anything, Selena. Don’t be critical of someone who found love her way.
Mia 59

Joe — nope, I still maintain that the attractive women and successful men of high quality character don’t subscribe to the beauty/money thing. Obviously, a pretty girl who has her shit together is not marrying a schlub who lacks ambition, and a successful man isn’t marrying a dumpy average girl. But these high quality types are not DRIVEN by that alone.

For example — and I’m far from the only reasonably attractive young woman who thinks this way — older men who flash their money around and try to buy us off repulse us and remind us of our dads, bc our dads used to have to buy us stuff when we were kids and had no money. These are the kind of men who are alpha on paper but really aren’t. I was once, at different times, hung up on 2 guys who did not appear to be alpha on paper – one was balding, shorter than me, and made less money; the other never went to college and had an average paying blue collar job. But they were very confident men, my intellectual equals, and playfully put me in my place when I got bratty or whiny. I was clearly the younger hotter higher value one on paper but they were not controlled by that and didn’t care. I’d have dated them if they were interested in a ltr.

Likewise , successful men don’t want a woman who is flashing her looks around and openly interested in being pampered by him. The best of them want a pretty girl but won’t be controlled by that and won’t be with her if she doesn’t have much to offer otherwise or is looking at him like a walking ATM.
Dawn 60

WOW – this really did bring out a gamut of emotions!
I like what Joe#52 said – the story at it’s base is about a woman knowing what she wanted and not settling for less. And isn’t that what Evan has been trying to teach?
I’m happy for Michelle and Mark – maybe Michelle will figure out that kids aren’t all they’re cracked up to be! *grin* (mine is graduating next Friday – YAY)
AS 61

A heated debate – to which I would like to share my thoughts. So here goes… What I believe Evan is trying to illustrate here (please correct me if I am wrong Evan) is the successful outcome of a relationship based on the tools & techniques that he gave to Michelle to improve her love life. A story to give others hope who may be in a similar position. It just so happens that the guy she attracted was older than her, they are happy and in love – it’s their lives, which does not affect any of us, so why all the negativity?

As for will it last etc no relationship in this world comes with a lifetime guarantee and with all due respect, quite frankly it is none of our business. But I guess here’s some food for thought, a close friend of mine married a guy who is 18 years her senior, he was divorced with 3 kids, she is now 37 and he is 55, they have been together for 12 years, have 2 kids and are still happily married and in love…
Karl R 62

Ileana asked: (#10)
“Ok, so what DID she do then? Did she just fight her instinct of trying 2 help him in certain areas of his life by making a few observations? Does this mean that we shouldn’t give advice to men unsolicited? I have the feeling that i am walking a fine line here… – so, if he was a terrible dad, did she just shut up?…”

Have you ever complained about how you were having a bad day (maybe because of your job/boss, your family or your boyfriend/spouse), and someone chimed in to tell you how the promblem was your fault and all the things you needed to do to “fix” the problem?

How did you feel about that? You were looking for a sympathetic ear while you vented your frustrations, not a lecture on your shortcomings.

I’ve never met anyone who enjoyed receiving unsolicited advice. You even have to be careful about offering criticism even when a person has asked for your advice.

Don’t give unsolicited advice. Let the other person decide how to solve their own problems.

If you want to do more than sit and nod, learn something about the situation. You’re referring to three relationships (boss, ex-wife, son) that have formed over the years, have a lot of time invested, and are incredibly complex. How are you possibly going to offer advice when you don’t even understand the situation? When you’ve barely met the other parties?

Find out from the father what makes the son tick. Why is the son making the decisions that he’s making? Has he made similar decisions before? Why did he make those decisions?

Asking questions can help the other person solve their own problems. If you ask why the son did something, the father will end up thinking about the answer to that question. When a person starts thinking more about a problem, they may come up with solutions that they hadn’t considered before. Furthermore, they will be more inclined to pursue those solutions, because they created the solutions.

Don’t get too clever with the idea of providing an answer through your questions. If you try to cleverly lead someone to a solutions by asking leading questions, it will be blatantly obvious what you’re trying to do.
Heather 63

@ Evan:

OK, nice story, it does sound like a happy ending. Two concerns here though.

1) The man was pretty clear that he didn’t want to have kids. Broke up with her, came back, and “agreed to father her children.” OK now with that, my alarm bells went off. I have heard alot of stories of couples divorcing, due to “the kids issue.” I just finished reading a book actually, about this very topic. He made it clear up front that he wasn’t interested in having kids, and I do agree with your advice to your client to not push him, etc. I agree with the other poster who said she could forsee a divorce before the kid(s) turn 2.

2.) He dumped her, and then comes back. OK if he’s done it before, he may do it again. Maybe he won’t, but who’s to say he will or will not? If I had been her, I’d have continued to walk on gracefully. She made a graceful exit, and I am proud of her for that, but had it been me, I’d have just said I’m sorry, you’ve rejected me once. You also said you don’t want kids. I’d rather not revisit this issue.

I hope she’ll be happy, but my gut goes, “I dunno about this!” And it’s not just from my experience either. Again, the book I read was very clear that alot of marriages do end over kids. The name of the book is “Two Is Enough” and I believe it was by Laura S. Smith.
Karen 64

Hi Evan, I love your blog and have been inspired by your insights into how men think and how relationships work – thank you! And although today’s entry caused some grief, I really hope the couple has a happy future. My question is how can I get on your email list? I totally missed the love story of the 75 year-old woman. Thanks and have a great weekend!
Heather 65

Sorry for the double post, but I just remembered.

The woman self-described herself as “bratty.” I truly hope she didn’t think that was a badge of honor. Alot of men are turned off by that, and I know that topic’s been discussed here recently. Too much drama, and a guy will walk away. I’m not saying I hate on the woman but that made me downright uncomfortable.
Ileana 66

@Evan #58: ‘Any comment that ignores that point – the REAL point of the post – that Michelle was a dating rockstar who found love – is irrelevant’.

Evan, look – we don’t know who Michelle is. We don’t know her story, her ups and downs, her previous or current relationship. Therefore, it is a bit difficult for us to understand the success story in ’33 yo hot blonde lands 50 yo dude, willing to worship the air she breathes’., without being a tad skeptical (in the given situation, where kids are involved. Think about it! People will be asking that kid later on : ‘Is that your grandpa?’, ‘No, it’s my dad’).

What i see as a success story here is the fact that a self proclaimed ‘bratty’ woman managed to understand men, learn from her mistakes and be a even better catch than she was – with or without Mark, her success would have been the same for me. Maybe even bigger if it was a 27, 30 yo doctor or lawyer who swore never to date older women, but couldn’t live without her. But what do i know, i’m only 22!

I understand that for you, as a dating coach, every story such as this brings a lot of satisfaction. It is the fruit of your work. Heck, you spent 20 hours of your life on phone with this woman and it brought results. But this doesn’t mean that we (your humble readers) should just blindly accept THIS particular case as eye opening material.

Don’t get angry on us I don’t think that anybody here, skeptikal or whatever, wanted to diminish your joy or Michelle’s…
AllenB 67

@Amy 53

So very true. It is all about not spending our energy and attention and love on the ones who will not have us, and giving it to those who want us. I dated a woman to whom I was very devoted and we were a good match, but she just wasn’t ready at that stage of her life and broke up with me. I began to look around for someone who did want to be with me, and had some great dating experiences, but I learned during that I didn’t want anyone else for a very long time. Eventually there came a time when I was ready again and I found someone else who _wanted_ to be with me. It was so much easier than any of those earlier relationships. We all go through stages of being ready or not ready for love. It is a matter of finding a good match and when both are ready. From the sounds of these blogs and Evan’s stories, I think a lot of Evan’s clients might want a life partner or think they do, but really are not internally ready for that. They hide behind lists of why someone isn’t right, or how their lives are too full, when the reality is they can’t admit to themselves or maybe are not aware that they really don’t want a real relationship right now. Evan can provide them with dating tools, but he can’t change their fears or self doubts, especially when they are not self-acknowledged.

@Heather 63

“The man was pretty clear that he didn’t want to have kids. Broke up with her, came back, and “agreed to father her children.” OK now with that, my alarm bells went off. . . . He dumped her, and then comes back.”

If Mark flipped 180 and they got married that week, you might have a point. Obviously that first week he is still conflicted. (And where did you get “he dumped her?” Evan wrote _Michelle_ walked away when it was clear Mark was not willing to be a Dad.) The story Evan tells is they split up _last July_ and they are getting married a full year later. Mark has had plenty of time to sit with the idea of fatherhood. Michelle has had plenty of time to watch Mark become comfortable with the idea and know whether it is for real. This is not an impulsive “Oh crap, I miss her so much, I will say whatever I think she wants to hear to have her back” story. I can’t _know_ this is true, but at some point I have to trust that two mature adults over the course of a year have carefully considered where they are going to go together and are happy about it.
Ileana 68

@ Karl R # 62: Karl, thanks for your input!

At the beginning of your post you asked me:

‘Have you ever complained about how you were having a bad day (maybe because of your job/boss, your family or your boyfriend/spouse), and someone chimed in to tell you how the promblem was your fault and all the things you needed to do to “fix” the problem?’

Boy, oh, boy, does his happen a lot Altough i generally dismiss any fixing atempt from others, i tend to react differently when the ‘fixing’ is just a mere suggestion and is not being forced upon me. (e.g. ‘I know this is your problem and you will surely solve it on your own, but maybe you could consider trying a. or b. if everything else fails’ and NOT ‘stop whining, you should absolutely do a. and b. There is no reason to be upset etc.’). I don’t know if this is normal or not, but that’s just me. Maybe a put too much value on how things are said…

However, I agree with the rest of your post 100%. You can’t just barge in on other people and start ordering them how to live their lives.

I guess that i have mistakenly assumed that Michelle was up to date and completly informed about the state of Mark’s relationships with the others. I wouldn’t have seen anything wrong with her telling him that maybe he is wrong in some aspects, say, regarding his son – assuming she knew the son and the dad and their history. Would it have been wrong?

I sometimes get the feeling that men are hypersensitive when it comes to stating your opinion on whatever they’re doing, even if they’re terrible at it and they know it! WHY?
(This is a bit off the record, but my ex-boyfriend couldn’t cook dinner even if his life depended on it – i knew it, he knew it and everybody else knew it. But whenever i tried giving him advice or telling him to try something else, he would either get defensive or ignore me, EVEN THOUGH he knew i was right. I ultimately gave up.)
Margaret 69

Evan, I am sorry, but stories like this just make me sad. I am 51, and no bow-wow, but it seems like my market is decrepit old geezers who are fat with a myriad of health problems. Or the 20 and 30 somethings who want a MILF because they don’t want to settle down. Nothing against Michelle, because I am sure Mark would assuredly NOT be dating me if he wasn’t with her, but how are women my age supposed to find good, viable men our age when they want girls young enough to be their daughter?

@ Nathan: you renew my faith in men. Thank you for your posts.
Soul 70

@ Heather, # 63:

You said:
“He dumped her, and then comes back. OK if he’s done it before, he may do it again. Maybe he won’t, but who’s to say he will or will not? If I had been her, I’d have continued to walk on gracefully. She made a graceful exit, and I am proud of her for that, but had it been me, I’d have just said I’m sorry, you’ve rejected me once. You also said you don’t want kids. I’d rather not revisit this issue.”

I am sorry to say, but I find your remark ridiculous (not you as a person, just your opinion as you stated it in this specific case). Here are the reasons why:
1) Uncertainty is part of life, and it is part of every big commitment. If you do not feel uncertainty at all when making a big decision, it is far more worrying than when you do feel uncertainty and ponder things before making your decision ( that’s a psychological fact). It actually is a good thing that he walked away and then came back! Yes, it is!
2) Keeping this in mind, it is not because you dumped sb once that you will dump them again (that’s nonsense!). If you have a pattern of dumping people and walking away now that’s different. One time is NOT a pattern.
3) Don’t you factor in that this is not a business relationship? This is about LOVE : she loves him, it would be ridiculous if she “walked away gracefully”. JEEZ, this is about love. When you love somebody, you at least try to understand their point of view…. If she truly was ready to commit to him for life and have kids with him, she CANNOT just get rid of him at the first mistake he makes, she LOVES him!!!!

One last remark regarding the age difference…. I am 34… 2 years ago I would probably have said that a 20-year age difference would have been my worst nightmare ahahahahah ….. and guess what I totally fell in love with a 52 year-old man!!! we want kids!! I love him!! he loves me ( and yes, he probably loves the fact that I am light-hearted and full of energy…. some of you would say that it’s about having a “trophy wife”. Hell no, this is about ME, I am no trophy, I have flaws and qualities, and there are tons of younger trophies out there who would have killed to be with him…It’s about Soul (that’s me ahahah), and what Soul brings to his life…

I hope to still be playful when I am 60 though, its not about age, it about enchantment… it’s about fun…and love!!!

Great post Evan!
DinaStrange 71

Well, actually America is not a real democracy. Regarding the comments that imply that she is settling. After all, it’s her business and at this point we can only wish her happiness. If a guy is 50, looks good for his age and has money, and she is good looking and self sufficient and is truly into him, i think it might be a good match. I don’t think the problem is that he is 20 years older than her, maybe our general beliefs in gold digger, middle age crisis manifesting in getting a younger wife and our general cynicism is interfering in our judgement.
maria 72

THIS IS A WONDERFUL ARTICLE! Thank YOU EVAN for sharing!
It is EXTREMELY SAD AND RIDICULOUS to read the rude remarks in regards to this young ladies success story. Perhaps, that is why most of you are still single and lonely.

I am happy to read this for I am going thru the same thing and have also learned alot from EVAN from just reading his blog. This is amazing and I hope the best for them!

Congrats EV!! You are a great coach!
Margaret 73

Soul, I am willing to bet your guy is successful, or you wouldn’t be looking at a man 18 years older than you. Just saying.
DinaStrange 74

I also want to add, and speaking from a different cultural perspectives, that both men and women in USA are extremely materialistic in their approach of relationships and lots of shallow factors play a role here…everyone wants a 10 (whatever that means), so you get lots of dissatisfied and miserable people…still looking for that then. I mean situations overall is extremely pathetic and is only getting worse.
Clare 75

Soul,
I could not agree with you more!
I feel strongly that sometimes in the shuffle of advice and skepticism, people get cold and forget the idea of love. Love should not blind you to a person’s flaws or cause you to overlook what should not be overlooked, but love is the reason we are all here in the first place.
If you are going to live in the kind of black and white world that Heather painted, I submit that no one is ever going to be good enough.
Love is about being prepared to be vulnerable, understanding the other person’s point of view and needs, as well as your own, and yes, sometimes it is about second chances. It is about compromise and sometimes it is about choosing an unconventional mate and finding unconventional solutions.

For me, the *most* inspiring stories are not where a couple had a completely perfect, smooth and problem-free road to matrimony (I don’t believe these really exist anyway), but where love overcame their humanity and the unpredictability of life, and they decided they couldn’t live without each other.

Maybe I am just a hopeless romantic, but I think if you believe in love and trust it, rather than finding reasons to drive it away, it has a much greater chance of finding you.
Zaq 76

Soul: “I am 34… 2 years ago I would probably have said that a 20-year age difference would have been my worst nightmare ahahahahah ….. and guess what I totally fell in love with a 52 year-old man!!! ….. and there are tons of younger trophies out there who would have killed to be with him..”

It is my experience that most younger women think the idea of a relationship with a much older man is ridiculous. Until of course they meet HIM.
I had one 25 year old tell me to my face that she didn’t agree with the age gap relationship of a mutual friend, and she would never do that. Seconds later it was made perfectly clear that wouldn’t apply to me !
Women appear to think logically, but ACT emotionally. There is a huge difference between what they say and what they do.
If younger women were not attracted to older men then older women would have them all to themselves.
I don’t see blame being placed on the younger women.

Also, I think young women are NOT attracted to MOST older men – only those, as in this example, who exhibit alpha characteristics.
That leaves the majority of the older men still available to them.
GREAT !! – except for one thing.

YOU DO NOT WANT THEM
You want the same men who ARE attractive to younger women.
But, as Evan says “you are only as valuable as your options”
Your options are ordinary men.

Here’s a success story
A friend of mine, mid 50s, recently divorced, is marrying a woman of similar age next week. He met her only a year ago.
Woop !! Woop!!

Here’s the thing – he’s in average condition and has been unemployed for 3 years – SAVVY ?
Michelle 77

#70, and when you’re 60, he’ll almost be 80.

I was having a conversation recently with my colleague who is 57, her husband is the same age. I am 48 and was telling her about a man I met who was interested in me, he’s 57. I was concerned he might be too ‘old’ for me, although he’s in excellent health and looks younger than his age. She brought up this point: “when getting older, you want someone who is going through the same things you are physically”. And believe me, as you age, there are physical changes that pop up out of the blue or things perhaps worsen with time. That won’t sway my decision on maybe having a relationship with this man, but she gave me some food for thought. One thing I have learned is older people have wise advice since they have gone through or are going through the ‘reality’ of life.
Soul 78

@Magaret

He is very successful! I have only had 3 long-term relationships altogether (I have never had any short-term story), and all of them were extremely successful…. and I was making a 6-figure salary myself until last year….I am successful too….I mostly meet successful men, because of my lifestyle…. the restaurants, private clubs, lounges, conferences I go to and hang out in….

Also, prior to meeting him, I was alone for 5 long years (a few dates, a few kisses, NO SEX FOR 5 YEARS). I was still surrounded (and approached) by very successful men, some younger, some older….. I have always been approached by men actually….

@ZAq

This is hilarious loooool
Soul 79

# 78:

My post is incomplete. What I wanted to say is that If I was a gold digger, I would have had many other opportunities (same age or younger!).

@ Michelle, # 77
“when you’re 60, he’ll almost be 80.”. Yes, I know!!! But I don’t care, I love him! we’ll cross that bridge when it comes….
Brenda 80

Margaret @69: I am 55, mother of two sons, one with special needs, and I dated men around my age for 3 years before my fiancé found me- yes, some had health issues, some had integrity issues and some just had way too many issues. BUT………there are really great men out there near our age, who are adorable, wonderful men (my fiancé, for one) who desire a great relationship with women our age………Just get back out there with a smile on your face and hope in your heart, and keep dating……date many different kinds of men in your age range.

PS Evan, our wedding is in 4 months (have been engaged for 6 months) and I met him because of you and the fact that you asked me to look beyond those I typically dated………..thank YOU!
priya 81

I have seen in some of your post where you have given advise to ladies to not to date too older men.Isnt it applied here too Evan?There is 20 year age gap.
nathan 82

Zaq @76 “Women appear to think logically, but ACT emotionally.” And the same is true for most men. It may look different on the surface, but it’s a small minority of people who are actually mostly driven by logic and reasoning. And that’s a good thing. Human intelligence is much more diverse than how we think things through. Our thinking is frequently wrong anyway, and never completely encompasses experience. The problem with emotions comes when we let them take over and run us. Don’t bother trying to say men are more logical. If I had a dollar for every dude I have met who was controlled by anger, rage, or sadness, I could retire today – at 36 years old.

DinaStrange @74 “both men and women in USA are extremely materialistic in their approach of relationships and lots of shallow factors play a role here” There is some truth to this. We have been sold the story of getting “the biggest and the best” of everything: house, relationship, business or job, etc. And that story has pushed many folks to create endlessly long lists of qualities and conditions they want. Those wants are then thought of as “must haves,” which leads to endless amounts of suffering. Because often, you can’t get what you want. And a fair amount of the time, getting what you want doesn’t actually make people happy. Or the happiness isn’t long lasting as we thought it might be.

To Claire @75 Love is highly powerful. It’s the energy, really, that sustains our lives in my opinion. Furthermore, I completely agree with you that being black and white, fixed to a set of rules and beliefs about relationships, is probably going to lead to being alone or miserably together with another. There has to be room for surprise, flexibility, second chances, and compromise. With all of that said, sometimes all of these qualities can be present between two people, and it doesn’t last. The first post I ever wrote on my dating/relationship blog was about just such a relationship. http://21centuryrelationships.blogspot.com/2011/04/love-of-unsettled-hearts.html
There is zero doubt in my mind that had a few things been different in the overall situation, the love between the two of us would have been enough to overcome the remaining obstacles. But it wasn’t in this case. And I think that’s where the romantic stories of lovers overcoming it all falls apart. Sometimes it’s really just too much – the circumstances of our lives. Neither person failed to love well enough, and both were the best partners they could be. But it just didn’t overcome. (I’m sure people could pick apart pieces of my story, but consider what I’m saying beyond the specific example from my own life.)

Michelle’s relationship seems to actually be in a better place than mine was. Her fiance’s waffling on having children remains the biggest question in my mind. But it’s one that is answerable, and workable, between the two of them. So, although I have expressed some doubts about their situation, she could have chosen a man with a lot more red flags than this guy seems to have.
Gina 83

I think this is a great story. It seemed like many people were focusing on the age, but obviously Michelle is fine with it and fell in love with the guy, got what she wanted in a man. The opinions of the woman are based on what they find okay for them and feel Michelle didn’t get a happy ending because he was older – in their perception. And, they were not respectful at all in their opinion, they were downright condescending. Its funny because a man recently asked me out that is 49 and I am 30, turning 31. I debated but ultimately decided against dating him. I weighed the pros and cons but for me, it’s just too much of an age difference, however I feel that if a person is cool with the age difference, love is love. I think this post is more about her having success with finding someone she “wants” to be with and is in love… obviously if she wasn’t attracted or excited about it, she wouldn’t have wrote Marc a thank you with such excitement.
Susan61 84

When I first read the story my initial reaction was a heavy eye roll, shaking my head and thinking “well, I hope she’ll be happy with this much older guy”. My first thought admittedly, was “yeah, I know what HE gets – a much younger, beautiful woman that can still bear him children – IF he decides he wants this, and he sounds a bit ambivalent. And then I thought “well, what does she get out of this arrangement?” And then I experienced some of the feelings of resignation that at age 50, once being a beauty myself, I am now lodged firmly in the echelon of “low status women”. My automatic negative thought was: “All attractive men over 50 want women in their 30′s and I’m doomed”. So yes, I indulged in these feelings for a (short) while. I reminded myself how I was never attracted to much older men, still am not, and that’s just who I am. Perhaps a male poster will jeer at me “well, that’s why you’re still single, honey!” And I might jab back and say, “oh yeah, well.. let’s see YOU date and commit to a woman 10-20 years your senior!”. These feelings are familiar and very easy to resort to. I do believe I was dumped by a man two years my senior due to my age. This was *indeed* a painful experience.

Yet, despite the above initial reaction, what I really took from this post was this: what you put out, you get back. Like attracts like. If I continue to put out any negative energy, that’s what I get back. If I continue to indulge in these feelings that just because ONE 52 year old guy rejected me that ALL 50 something attractive men will reject me, then THAT is what I will get. If I treat each day like a gift and accept with grace where I am in life, RIGHT now – and it’s exactly WHERE I should be and its a beautiful thing – and treat other humans with respect, kindness and convey a more joyous approach to life, then my chances of finding love increase exponentially. I am finally at this place and feel extremely happy to be alive – and SINGLE. If I find love, great. If I live another day to be single and live more joyously, GREAT. I’m just going to HAVE FUN and let the chips fall where they may.

Best of luck to the happy couple!
Happy 85

I am married to a man 19 years my senior and have been for 28 years. I am now 55 and the marriage, although it was fairly happy, has run its course. I think the main issue was not age, however, it was differences in our personalities that have become magnified since he retired 8 years ago, he into a quiet life of TV and I into expanding my horizons more and more. Also our physical needs and drives are now quite different.
Heather 86

@ Soul:

My opinion is my opinion and I really don’t appreciate your labeling it as “ridiculous.”

I stand by what I say. Had it been me, that this guy had walked out on, I would not have him back. There’s a saying going around: “Taking back an ex is like going to a yard sale, and buying back all of your old crap.” He flip flopped 2-3 times on the kids issue, and broke up with her. What’s so hard to understand here? Sure, maybe she does “LOVE him!” But guess what. Love does NOT, and NEVER will “conquer all.” Had that been the case, then my love for my ex husband would have withstood his abuse of me, his multiple addiction problems, etc. But it didn’t. Her loving him doesn’t mean that it’s going to be a good, healthy, strong relationship that will go the distance.

If you disagree with me, then disagree with me, but I do take offense to your rudeness.
Soul 87

@Heather

Please accept my apologies for my words. You are right and I was wrong and rude; I should not have said that.

On a different note, this is not YOUR story…. and her husband-to-be is not your ex. There is no reason why you should transfer your hurts and fears onto them. Love does “conquer it all” for some, and not for others….
Christine 88

Susan, I know where you’re coming from, even though I’m in my 30s (just turned 33). I often feel like I’m in the “low status” echelon in the romance department because attractive and successful men in their 30s often want women in their 20s. So no matter where you are along the age spectrum, there’s always someone younger or hotter who’s higher up on the “totem pole”, so to speak. However, I draw inspiration from my brother-in-law’s story. He was 33 when he started dating my sister (who was also 33). Before that, he had dated some young and beautiful, but vacuous and immature 20-somethings. He eventually chose my sister to marry, because he had similar shared experiences with her and could get a mental connection with her that he could never get with those younger women. If all he wanted was youth and beauty, he had his chance to marry one of those other women instead. So I’m hoping there are more men out there like that.

Even beautiful 20-something women don’t always have it so easy. They can attract more men, but can’t always keep them and aren’t guaranteed lasting love either. I know a pretty 20-something who got dumped by her 40-something boyfriend because he felt she just wasn’t mature enough for him. I also know a beautiful but vapid 20-something model who has been repeatedly dumped by her 30-something boyfriend (they’re one of those on again-off again couples). He’s frustrated by her lack of intellect and ambition. So even the attractive 20-somethings at the top of the dating totem pole don’t have immunity to heartache and disappointment.

To get back on track with the original post, congratulations to Michelle. I admit I initially had some reservations about the whole age difference, but I don’t know these people so it’s hard for me to judge. As long as they’re happy with each other, that’s what matters. What I got out of this post was that you can get love by knowing what you want, and not being afraid to take a chance to get it. I really respect her courage in being prepared to walk away when it looked like she wasn’t going to get what she wanted, and standing by what she valued. Best of luck to them!
Kurt 89

I question the relevance of this story. I mean if the 33-tear-old woman truly is as beautiful as you claim, that old man in his 50s must have felt so fortunate to have her and would be willing to tolerate a lot because he knows that not many beautiful women 20 years younger are going to want him.

Maria (#6), your post makes you seem very angry. Although I agree that a 20+ year age difference seems huge in this case, you are hypocritical to label all men as “completely superficial.” In my own personal experience, women are far, far more superficial than my male peers.
When women are younger they hold all of the power and often abuse it – women get away with this because they hold far more dating power than men at that age. However, when women get older, the balance swings back to the men and a lot of women just don’t seem to comprehend this.
Love 90

“We are all a little weird and life’s a little weird, and when we find someone whose weirdness is compatible with ours, we join up with them and fall in mutual weirdness and call it love.” ~ Dr. Seuss

They found love!!!!!

I am happy for them and hope I find love too one day!
AnnieC 91

I thought I must have been reading an old blog post, I was sure I had read about this before.

This particular story(and it’s impact on me) is one of the main reasons my partner(50) and myself(38) are now in a commited relationship and are going to try for a child.

I was worried also, that my partner would think he was too old, and wouldn’t choose to have one and I might have to walk. He has grown children, and had said to a previous partner, no more kids.

However, I took it to heart this story didn’t pressure in any way, until the time was correct for me to express my wishes. He responded very quickly, and started thinking about having a little person who we could both care for and create a lovely family. He was actually getting more and more excited about it. He’s even asked me if I have been to the doctor yet, to ensure everything is in working order etc. We did discuss that he would be an older father, and we both agreed, if this was going to happen it would happen naturally only and we were going to make an extra special effort to remain physically active, healthy and keep our minds active as well.

This story, is THE main reason, I went down the path I did, have ended up SO happy with an older man, and am about to move to Canada permanently with him and try and have a family.

The negativity and bitterness of some of these posters is just horrifying. Men MAY like younger women but they fall IN LOVE with women who make them feel good.

I have 2 friends who are marrying/have married men 10 years younger than them. I dated a man 9 years younger.

Who you are, and how you behave and present yourself and how you make a man feel, is the key. Nothing else.

I’m so glad you have shared this story again Evan. I am very similar to this situation, and by assisting this woman, you have also assisted me. Thanks from the bottom of my heart.
AnnieC 92

Sorry for the double post, took a bit to wade through all that.

For those that are saying that he left for a week is a sign of a no-go, I think you are way off the mark in your judgment People are not robots. They aren’t always going to react in the best way or the way in which we hope.

My sister case in point. She dated a man whom she really fell in love with(and he with her). He broke up with her twice. To so many here this might be a red flag, however the reasons this happened were a reaction he had to a terribly stressful situation that he was struggling to deal with. She did say to him, if this happens one more time, then I am out because it is too painful. As they worked through the issue, it was decided my sister would move to where he lived(Long distance relationship to begin with). Once she moved in with him, she began to understand the serious stress he was under, and how she was asking too much of him without understanding his situation.She was like the straw on the camels back.

They now have a beautiful baby boy and are as happy as Larry. You just can’t know what is going through a persons mind or what they are experiencing moment to moment. It’s about giving things some time, and not seeing the bad in everything, but just knowing within yourself what you can tolerate and when to walk away. Being a strong person is about giving people chances even if they may hurt you.

Only very damaged or emotional unstable people can’t risk a bit of hurt from time to time making demands that they themselves are not capable of honouring.

1 week breakup? Meh…not even remotely a big deal.
nathan 93

Annie, red flags aren’t – in my view – an instant signal to reject someone. In the case of them coming up while in a relationship, they are a sign to pay closer attention to the situation, and halt the free flowing “green light” you might have had with the other person before.

You act like questioning that point with the boyfriend is “awful,” but frankly, I’d argue it’s being wise. The times I have had a girlfriend break up and then come back over some issue, you better believe there was a period of re-establishing the connection and trust. And the same has been true the few times I have done the same. Furthermore, this is one of those life changing decisions – having children – that yes, stirs up all sorts of responses. But I doubt Michelle simply took him back after the break up and went back to 100% trusting him the way she did. It sounds like it ultimately has brought them closer together -which is wonderful – but as you said, people aren’t robots. And the majority of writers questioning that piece of the story know damn well that such a rift over an issue like children is “a big deal,” one that either could be the thing that glues two people together, or which tears them apart. The risk needed to happen, and maybe the small break up was for the best. But sometimes it’s not. Only time will tell which one it is.
Androgynous 94

Illeana at @66 – you’re right. We posters here do not know Michelle and have not invested in her the same way Evan has. We have every right not to feel inspired by this story, but not the right to be rude about it.
While it is wonderful for Michelle to have found the man of her dreams willing to give her what she wants – a family, like a number of other posters here, I do wonder about the wisdom of new fatherhood at such at a relatively advanced age. I personally know of men in their 50s pressured into fatherhood (I use the word pressure because the men wouldn’t do it otherwise if they didn’t face the prospect of losing their beloveds) and while they may not come to regret their choice, the physical and mental toll on them has been very great – of course Mark could be the exception and his wealth so vast as to ensure a very comfortable upbringing for all of his current and prospective children. SO while this is a feel good story, there are elements of it that some people are wise to question.
SS 95

Like others, my worry is more about the fatherhood aspect than the age gap. If Michelle and Mark are happy with each other, more power to them and I wish them many wonderful years together!

That being said, I was the “Michelle” in the story for most of my dating life. I’m only a year older than her now. I dated a few older men (and rejected others for age-related reasons), but the one issue I had with the ones I did like was the fact that they were reluctant to start another family or start a family at all.

I didn’t blame them for feeling that way… I totally understand why a man in his late 40s or early 50s doesn’t want to start over again or become a father for the first time. I even saw this reluctance in men in their late 30s who had married early and now had three teenagers/young adults and considered themselves out of the raising newborn stage.

However, I wanted children. I wanted a man who was eager to be a father for the first time (or another time) and not a reluctant one who had to be talked into it. I often ended these dating situations myself (or never let them get started) once the men expressed to me — without my prompting — that they really weren’t interested in kids. Plus, I did want a husband who, even if somewhat older than me, would still have a good 35+ years of time to enjoy his children. (Yes, I know we can never control when we’ll die and a healthy 25-year-old man can die in a car crash tomorrow, but I’m basing this on an average male life expectancy of about 75 years.)

I do hope for Michelle that Mark finds himself adoring his second chance at fatherhood and that he lives a long and healthy life enjoying his children. It is a risk, however, that women in such a situation shouldn’t take lightly.
Margaret 96

@ Brenda, # 80. I am happy for you. But I still want a man at or within 10 years(if he is in good shape) . I don’t want to take on a sick old man when I didn’t have the good years. Congratulations to you!
Margaret 97

@ Soul #78 sorry for being a beotch. It’s just hard seeing eligible men my age going for women 20 years older, while I am supposed to be happy that some old foggie in his 60s or 70s will give me the time of day.

I sincerely wish you happiness in your relationship. I, too, am successful and want the same in a partner.
Margaret 98

Oops, I meant 20 years younger! Either way, I wish you success and happiness.
Soul 99

@MArgaret

I am a woman and I often get frustrated too lool. … and look at it this way: I’ll be the one stuck with an oldie foggie in his 70s when I am your age !!!!

Thanx for your message and your nice words, I really appreciate it.
Zaq 100

A woman getting older is like a man getting shorter. Imagine a man being surrounded by hot women, but as the years go by he becomes less and less successful, because now he is shorter and no longer a catch.
(yes I know it doesn’t happen to men)

Perhaps that’s the problem. Women still expect to land the man that used to be in her league, but now isn’t.
No one here is shedding a tear for young beta males who are losing women of their age to successful older men.
Why is that ?

If old men are the ONLY ones asking you out, then that IS your dating level. Take it or leave it. My guess is though that you do have more options.

And what’s with all this not wanting to deal with sickness issues in 25 years time. Have you any idea how risky life is ?
To have 10 years happiness together would be worthwhile.

Here’s a salutary tale. I woman I know was finding it difficult finding a mate as she approached 30. She made it perfectly clear that she was not going to date an “old foggie”.

Although she had little success in her 20s, as luck would have it, in her early 30s she met a young man with a good job, and quickly gave birth to a child. She got all those things that she had wanted.

Unfortunately, within a year, her partner came down with an illness which led to him losing his job. He cannot now work and is mentally incapacitated. Although having to care for a young child, she is the only one capable of working to bring in money. I bet “Old foggies” are looking pretty attractive to her now !

As the Dalai Lama said “people spend so much time planning for the future, and fail to live life NOW”
Lisa 101

I’ve known lots of May-December romances. Some elements common to all of them: The younger woman usually feels very proud of her charms and the older guy is financially stable, maybe wealthy. The woman usually isn’t and has no interest in pursuing a career, or she isn’t very good at anything in particular, but she wants a certain lifestyle, which usually includes a baby. They both feel like they’ve made a catch. That catch is based on traditional gender roles, no question.

In all of these cases if there was a problem the woman left the man. In all cases as time went on the age difference became a burden for the younger woman. In some cases she had to leave her same-age friends because her husband didn’t fit in. In many cases the women are accused of being in it only for the money, even if he’s still attractive.

I only know of one case where the situation was reversed–older woman, younger man (by 12 years). And yes, she was the rich worldly one and he was the young good-looking one who couldn’t make it on his own. He talked about his attractions to other women all the time, even though he wasn’t the unfaithful type.

I don’t know of any professional women who married much older men. The May-December thing seems specific to career men with stay-at-home wives.

Not judgments, just observations.
Zaq 102

@Lisa

May-December romances are not at all uncommon, I know quite a few.
The only common denominator that I can see is that the man is always confident and high status, but not necessarily wealthy.

I can see little in common between the women.
The women are usually more attractive than average. Some had children, some didn’t. Some were educated professional, only one stayed at home.
Most of them had long marriages (some haven’t been going that long).

Statistically May-December unions are longer lasting. Women are the ones who start divorce proceedings most of the time in any case, not men.
As Psychology magazine article on unPC truths put it. Men marrying much younger women do NOT have mid-life crises.
Gina 103

Long time reader first time commenter. Just want to offer a little bit of perspective to all the people who say the 50year old guy is old compared to the woman.

I bet a lot of the younger women who say they wouldn’t date anyone that much older would date George Clooney, a 50 ish year old man who routinely dates women in their early 30s.
Margaret 104

@Gina #103: We are talking George Clooney here! LOL, False equivalency. Sigh. Still, I *don’t* want George Clooney, even if he knocked on my door. I merely desire a man near my own age (51), in decent shape, who has his act together. That’s all. But it seems to be too tall an order.

Sigh again. If only Mr. and Mrs. Katz, and by extension, Evan, had been born 20 years earlier. Then I could have availed myself of Evan’s expertise , and likely have made different choices in the past, believed more in myself, and be married with 1.8 kids now. And, I am not being facetious. As the Pink Floyd song goes, I missed the starting gun.
Ana 105

My sister married a man who was in his 50s when she was in her 30s. It was great until she was in her 50s and he was in his 70s. Suddenly, the age disparity made a big difference and eventually caused the marriage to break up. You see, she still had tons of energy, and contrary to what biologists and sexologist might say, a lot of 50 something women are really hitting their peak sexually in their 50s. Whereas, he no longer had the energy (sexually or otherwise) to keep up with her. She eventually came to feel like he was holding her back on life though she wasn’t the one who initiated the divorce. He did because he felt that they no longer had anything in common besides material things. Since their divorce my sister has gone through a transformation. She’s physically change for the better and is more active than ever, while her husband has slowed down so much he seems ready for a wheelchair. I hope your client doesn’t eventually become disillusioned like my sister and her husband did.
Ana 106

Just to see how differently people respond to May-December when the woman is older, read the negative comments thrown at the older woman on this thread:

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/i-don%e2%80%99t-want-to-be-a-cougar-i-want-a-relationship-with-a-younger-man/2/

Where are the stories about older women marrying younger men, since we know it happens. Maybe that’s why the women on this thread are so put off by the “isn’t this romantic” storyline here. The double standard is so obvious.

The truth is probably more that some men will marry older, and some women will marry older. Most won’t. Probably just about anyone will marry younger.
Man 107

Why would an man who can get a 25yo marry a 35+ yo?
In most occasions he wants sex and can’t get it elsewhere.
As for the storyline, well if she wasn;t so bitchy to men in her 20s she may have married someone in his 30s.