Can I Find Love If I’m Depressed?

This is not to say that depressed people are not as “deserving” of love as anyone else in the world. But love isn’t based on being “deserving”. Dating isn’t a meritocracy. And frankly, I don’t think anyone “deserves” love just like I don’t think everyone “deserves” to be a millionaire.

If I am to be objective, Kristi, we have to look at romance much in the way that we look at work. There are only so many amazing jobs out there and everyone is forced to make tradeoffs. Some will work for a ton of money doing something that they don’t like. Some will work at something that makes no money because they love it. Some will work in an office even though they hate commuting and being around people. Some will work from home, even though they are extroverts.

Frankly, I don’t think anyone “deserves” love just like I don’t think everyone “deserves” to be a millionaire.

And, for whatever it’s worth, there are some people who, through no fault of their own, are unfortunate. They live in a town where all the factories have been shut down. They grew up in a broken family with no positive role models. They got caught up in their own rebellion and never went to college. They had kids too young and couldn’t give as much to their careers.

All of these people might be kind, deserving people, but they’re not going to end up with the dream job simply because they’re kind and as worthy of an amazing career as the next guy. If the next guy went to an Ivy League school, had his still-married parents pay for his grad school, and chose a career path that allowed him to capitalize on the tech boom, that guy is going to have a better job 99% of the time.

And so it goes in love. Your curse is depression. Some have been cursed by being overweight. Some men are too short. Some are blind or deaf or paraplegic. Are all these people “deserving” of love? In terms of fairness, yes. In terms of reality, no.

It’s perfectly fair for you to not want to date a man who can’t walk if you can find a man who can walk. It’s perfectly fair for you to not want to date a man who is in financial disarray when you can find a man who is a stable homeowner. And it’s perfectly fair for a man to choose a partner who is not depressed over a partner who is depressed.

We can go on and on about how unfair life is, but, hey, I didn’t write the rules. Life is unfair.

And as someone who really tried the patience of some well-meaning people when I was depressed and anxious, I can understand why someone wouldn’t want to get too emotionally invested in me.

I was a cesspool of negativity, scattered thinking and helplessness. I was a shadow of my former and future self. I didn’t even like to be around myself – why would any woman enjoy being around me? Especially when she can choose to keep the company of another guy who wasn’t crying spontaneously every morning.

I’ve seen relationships torn apart by depression, generally where one partner tries to overlook the other partners’ significant issues. But those issues always come back to haunt the couple, the same way you’re still haunted by your own chronic mental health. If you can’t escape it, he can’t either. And that’s not a life that most people are going to voluntarily sign up for.

The best metaphor, I think, would be having an autistic child. I have a friend who has one and it’s incredibly emotionally draining on him. And while he’d never say he “regrets” having his son, I think if he were given a choice of autistic vs. not-autistic, he’d choose the latter. It would be hard to blame him.

So while I’m extremely sorry for the loneliness you feel, your therapists are ultimately right. Until you can get happy yourself, it would be very hard to contribute to a partner’s happiness.

It’s not that it’s impossible to find love when you’re depressed – I know of a handful of stories – and those relationships are no picnic – but objectively, there’s only a small percentage of men who are such selfless caretakers that they would choose a depressed partner over someone who doesn’t have serious mental health issues.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck and hope that you get the help you need to one day have the relationship you desire.

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71 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice

71 Responses to “Can I Find Love If I’m Depressed?”

my honest answer 1

Evan, that was really well thought out and logical advice. Well done. I totally understand what you’re saying, and I’m really curious to hear if the letter writer will chime in with her thoughts.
Stephanie Constantina 2

This is a difficult one, Evan, as you acknowledge. If she can find love it must be at least possible that she may become less depressed as time moves on. Her depression is in a sense a negative attribute of her personality but she may have many positive attributes that her future partner will love her for. If she can find someone she loves and devote herself to making him happy then this may ‘distract’ her from her depression.
Laura 3

I was depressed for a very, very long time. Like cry all the time, can’t function kind of depression. I had very unhealthy relationships because you can’t find someone healthy if you aren’t. Your therapists are right. Work on yourself first. I took medicines for years and thought I would never get better, but I started going back to more natural remedies and I am a much healthier and happier person now. I’m not saying it’s a cure-all, but some things that greatly helped me were:
-Exercise every day
-Take B-12 and omega 3/6 supplements daily (they’ve done studies that have shown MANY depressed people are lacking in these nutrients).
-A steady routine
-Working on my spiritual self and helping other people (helping others has a powerful affect on making you feel good)
Sometimes tiny tweaks in lifestyle can help a lot.
Christina 4

Excellent and thoughtful advice, Evan. I was married to a bipolar man for 12 years, and would never knowingly get into a relationship with someone who was clinically depressed ever again. However, while I was on that journey, I ran into a few couples in which both people were depressed. Amazingly, they seemed pretty happy together. Their explanation was that they understood each other and really didn’t have to worry about dragging the other one down.

It seemed strange to me at first, but when I thought about how difficult it was for me to truly understand a depressed spouse, it made sense that those who’ve had similar experiences can probably relate to each other a bit better.

Have you considered a support group? Not as a place to look for dates, but it might give you an insight into what others in your situation are doing. Best of luck to you!
Sandy 5

Evan, I applaud your honesty and willingness to be transparent about your own struggles with depression and anxiety.

I, too, have struggled with anxiety and there was a brief period, towards the end of my marriage, when I was having panic attacks. That was the darkest time for me. Those demons were definitely in my head, and it was scary until the medication kicked in.

My episodes were also situational (trapped in a bad marriage? hello?). I was lucky.

However, I lived with the depression of my father my whole life. I saw my mother struggle to be in a relationship with him. It was awful. They got divorced after 25 years of hell.

My dad became dependent on shock treatments, and his life has turned around. He is happy for the first time in years. And it’s lasting for months…

Because of my experience with my father, I don’t date anyone whose mental illness is untreated and/or unstable.

Depression is a slippery slope.

By the same token, I have a heart and believe everyone deserves a fair shake at love. I would encourage this woman to do everything in her power to turn around the depression. As many other people wrote in, there are lots of alternative treatments besides talk therapy and meds.

Best of luck.
Judy 6

Saddened by the opinion, but also note that Evans response rings true. However what if you’re depressed because you can’t find love? Quite often people are genuinely happy within their lives but feel saddened by the void of not sharing it with a special someone. How do you shake this? Do you just give up because you feel depressed and now see that the chances are even less to find someone.?
Rene 7

Evan, I had no idea how you were going to respond to this letter, but you did an awesome job. As hard as it sounds for this woman, she must work on herself and truly believe that she can get better before she finds stable love. If it takes 10 years, well, then it will take 10 years. Think of it like a career ladder – - you wouldn’t dream of being CEO before you had put in some time and learned the ropes of the company. It might take years before you get a highly-coveted position. The same thing goes for relationships. Even without depression it can seem very hard to find someone that you are compatible with (and this process might drive someone to depression!). So, with depression it might take a little longer, and the search might be harder, because you must be honest about what you can contribute to the relationship. In the long term, though, it is better for you AND for the other person who is getting into the relationship with you.
Ann 8

Against the thread here, I think you can be a depressive and have a stable relationship. I also think you can be unattached and be happy. So either road is available to this woman, in my view. But it’s a tricky thing and she has to take charge of her own illness and decide for herself what is right each step of the way. External advice can only go so far when her situation is so unique.

But EMK, you’re missing the obvious here. You turned it around, so you can serve as a positive example for her. True, you two have different, though similar, conditions. But if something worked for you, something may work for her, too.

The greatest challenge offers us a chance to grab the greatest victory.
SnowdropExplodes 9

@ EMK: In a recent piece, you said, “Love a man for who he is, don’t hate him for what he isn’t” but the analogy you’ve drawn in this piece seems to be saying the opposite (or at least, saying that people do the opposite).   Do you really believe that the ability to walk is going to trump “person I could spend the rest of my life with” if all the important things click?
And so it is, I’ve found, with depression.   I have both suffered from depression (thankfully, I responded well to the SSRI medication I was prescribed, though I usually prefer to tough it out when episodes return) and dated a person who went through a severe down phase of bipolar while I was seeing her.   Was it hard work loving her during that time?   Of course!   But she was worth it because of who she was.   I know that I am hard work to be around when I am going through a depressive episode, too, but I also know that I cope well and that helps.
@ Kristi: Julia A Fast wrote a great book, “Get It Done When You’re Depressed” with techniques for functioning when suffering from debilitating depression (it’s helped me, for sure).   It operates from the assumption that depression isn’t going to get better or go away, it’s a condition you have to figure out ways of living with – as one reviewer put it, “You’re suffering from depression, and in the mean time there’s some stuff you’d like to be getting on with”.   It can provide some guidelines to help dating when depressed as well – in your case, dating is one of those things you’d “like to be getting on with”.
One way you can help yourself with this, I think, is by setting attainable targets.   I know that at one stage during my depression, the target I set was simply to make sure I was presentable whenever I left the home.   It seemed like a huge mountain to climb to do even that, but it was attainable, and I attained it (and it remains a target today, because I don’t want to slide back into depression).   There are things that need doing whether you feel like them or not, and you can add to those things the essentials for finding a good partner and do them whether you feel like it or not. Put them into your daily routine, and keep doing them just because that’s what you do on a daily basis. It’s sort of a “fake it till you make it” strategy, but it seems to work.
Potential partners generally don’t want to be carrying the whole weight of another person’s issues along with their own (and even the most mentally healthy folks have some issues they deal with), so the best advice I can think of, both from my own experiences and stuff I’ve read, is just to show (don’t tell!) a partner that you’re determined to carry some of it yourself and do what you can to be functional.   That makes loving you that much more attractive, and shows that there is a person and not just an illness attached.
Evan Marc Katz 10

Ann, you have a brilliant way of refuting things I didn’t say: “I think you can be a depressive and have a stable relationship. I also think you can be unattached and be happy….”

I said that it would be very difficult to be depressed an in a relationship, but I allowed for exceptions. And, for the tenth time, I’ve never said you couldn’t be single and happy.

Finally, this line… “if something worked for you, something may work for her, too,” rings false. Why?

Because my depression was circumstantial and curable. The OP points out that hers is chronic and she wants to know if she can still find love if she’s STILL depressed. So what worked for me (getting a job, finding a new career), would be largely irrelevant if her issue is genetic or chemical or incurable. So given the fact that she can’t work and suffers from this malady, will any man still want to partner with her? The answer is that very few happy, well-adjusted men will choose a depressed partner and that her efforts are better spent on getting herself well than on finding love. That’s where the column came from.
Evan Marc Katz 11

Great advice, Snowdrop. Thanks for contributing.
Nicole 12

@Ann, the letter writer isn’t depressed b/c she is unattached, which is what your comment suggests.

She has severe depression which she mentions has not responded well to treatment OR medication. This isn’t about challenges or positive thinking.

She’s essentially asking Evan to contradict her psychiatrist’s/therapist’s advice that she should work on making herself healthy before seeking a relationship.

For someone with severe mental illness, trying to build a new relationship with someone is a pretty tall order. B/c on top of the challenges that a person faces trying to form a bond and a lasting relationship, there are the problems of the illness that someone will have to face with her everyday, with some days being okay and some days probably being extremely difficult.

Stressful situations can exacerbate these conditions, and I’d imagine the tumult would be enough to make a lot of people give up and leave.

Whether the severity of the illness is a result of lack of compliance or difficulty in finding a good combination of mood stabilizers, anti-depressants, etc. having a relationship with someone like this will not be easy.

The doctor’s advice (and Evan’s) is good b/c honestly, even if this person finds someone she wants as a keeper, not having her illness under control causes the chance that she’ll get left to skyrocket. There is just no easy way to get someone invested enough to want to deal with all of that long term. Why would anyone stick around when they can find a relationship that isn’t fraught with the same issues (just the “regular” ones).

I’ve never dated anyone with a mental illness but have had to end friendships with people b/c it can be so hard to deal with mood swings, manipulation, substance abuse/self-medication, and any number of issues that are esp. prevalent in this population. If it is that hard trying to maintain a friendship in these circumstances, then a relationship and/or marriage will be even harder.

Not to mention the fact that while wanting love and not having it may make her feel worse, finding a relationship will not make her BETTER. She does not have situational depression, which by the way, isn’t automatically cured when the situation that caused it is resolved. The worst two stories that I know regarding people who had severe, lifelong depression who had successfully found love and marriage ended with the person with depression committing suicide. One did it a month after her wedding. Another did it after years of attempts, treatments, and medications, and her child (my classmate) found her after the attempt that succeeded.

So I can say that after knowing those people I wouldn’t exactly want to sign up for any of that either, while I have so much sympathy for them.

I also know people who suffer from severe depression who did find love and marriage but they did also find stability and coping skills and some measure of peace BEFORE they tried to involve anyone in their lives. I think they have good futures b/c someone got to love them at their best, and that increases the likelihood that they’ll be willing to stick around should they ever hit those lows again. And they have learned perhaps when they need space and how to minimize the impact of their illness on those around them, b/c they took the time and did the work.
Lydia 13

Excellent advice, Evan. Glad you took the time to answer this.

I believe there is “someone for everyone” but when I look at my own shortcomings…ADHD, Fibromyalgia, Migraines, recurrent depression (situational), overweight…I know most men I would want (financially and mentally stable, fit, intelligent, well-educated in addition to just being “good men”) would likely be able to find someone with less issues than what I’ve got.

I have lost weight and am working on losing more, but I don’t know if my looks and other positive traits will ever outweigh the negatives I have little control over. I have been thinking lately about what I’m finding and what I might find in men who are interested in me. I have even been wondering if I could kiss a man if I knew he was wearing dentures!!! I am in my 40′s and people my age don’t compare to the 23 year old I married all those years ago. I like people with all their hair and teeth and who are healthy mentally as well as physically. Being with a mentally unhealthy person just makes my own mental health worse.

It is different when you marry someone “perfect” who over time ages or develops illness, than when you’re trying to find yourself initially attracted to someone with so many problems.

Yes, it is all about trade-offs. None of us get exactly what we want all the time.

I hope she finds love if the seeks it, but I hope most of all that she finds an effective treatment and can enjoy a greater measure of health so she will enjoy life more, with or without a partner.

This was an important letter to answer, and it was answered so well.
Angie 14

I think you should start by contributing an hour a day, if you can. Force yourself
You wrote certain things as if they were a life sentence (ex: “too unstable to keep a job”). Well, can you force yourself to get a job (or do ANYTHING) and always give it your best? Even if it’s only 15 hours a week? Volunteering? Exercise / art classes?

I don’t think you should take the idea that being depressed and loveless as a lifelong sentence. If you can get yourself to the point where you are able to function in society, even if you aren’t 100% of the time all the time, then I think dating is reasonable. But you do need to get yourself to the point where you are always your best for other people. Also, what you can ALWAYS control is your actions. You may not be able to control the way you feel, but I’ve known depressed people to drop off the face of the earth and refuse to return calls, would threaten suicide or harm towards others, abuse substances, etc. If you can consciously fight any natural urges to do these things (mind over matter), then I think you are moving in a direction that will allow you to be relationship-ready. I do agree with the poster above that said maybe someone who also suffered from depression may relate better, as long as the two of you are positively focused, instead of bringing eachother down.

I think you might be asking the wrong question. It shouldn’t be “Are depressed people deserving of love?”. It should be “Am I capable of 100% dedicating myself to and being good to another person, and 100% refusing to let the depression bring negativity into the relationship?” (If your answer is “They should just deal with it” then I agree that you need to “Work on yourself first” b/c no one should be in a relationship if they aren’t willing to give the best of themselves, and you ideally want to find a person who complements you and motivates you towards your best, not enables you to be at your worst).
Margaret 15

Kristi, take heart. The advice you have been given here is spot-on, but please keep in mind that there are very many variables. I’d like to share a story with you. My cousin (female) is 3 years older than me. Never been pretty, almost homely, barely graduated high school. ADD, depression, bulimia, alcoholism. To top it off, she had breast cancer and a double mastectomy and still smokes. Not a good homemaker or cook. Has held fast food jobs when she works. However, she is sweet, unpretentious, and a good Catholic. Works for AA to help younger alcoholics.

Her husband is a sweetheart, college-educated, has gotten better-looking as he has gotten older. Devoted, stood by her through thick and thin. They are best friends, he is wonderful to her family. Their 2 girls have left the nest, and they have a great future. I would LOVE to find a man like him.

I am just trying to say that anything can happen. We do not have control over everything in life. All we can do is work hard to overcome our problems and issues, and the rest will have to fall where it may. Yo don’t know what the future holds, and you must love yourself no matter what.
Zabrinah Shepherd 16

I agree that this is a topic/issue that is rarely covered in this context. I also agree with the advice given. You cannot bring a partner happiness if you cannot make yourself happy. It goes right along with the philosophy that you cannot change the world or other people without changing yourself first!

~Zabrinah
Taryn Lutzer 17

It is a selfish world we live in when we can’t be there for someone in need. Our dear depressed writer sounds like she has and continues to try everything she can to feel better, as of yet nothing has worked. However, that doesn’t mean that she has a lot to offer and that she isn’t deserving of being giving a chance. I applaud her for being honest, most arent. I also applaud her for taking responsibility as most do not. The man that is worthy and willing to take a risk will be lucky as kristy seems evolved in areas as most are not.

Evan, I thought your response was poorly written and that you are responding as if life is black and white. Isn’t it possible that with love kristi can exceed all that she has already accomplished on her own?
Ann 18

EMK and Nicole: Depression, whether caused by situational or biological factors, is a mental illness–it isn’t about being happy or not happy, which is an emotional state, and a transient one at that.

Because it is an illness and we aren’t doctors here, we don’t know whether the OP can be “cured” or not, and I doubt she does either. She put everything in question form, which would indicate to me that she herself doesn’t know how her illness will progress or what her health prospects are. All we know is that she is suffering from this illness now, she wants a relationship, and she doesn’t know if she can have one.

I stand by my statement that there are men who are willing to have a sexual and/or companionate relationship with a depressive because many do. And being happy is not an emotional state that is required to have a relationship, judging from what we all see around us. Her therapists are advising her not to undertake this until she gets healthy (not nec happy), which would indicate that her therapists do believe that she can manage her illness to the point where a relationship is feasible.

Also, EMK, you brought up marriage when you said that you wouldn’t recommend that a man marry a depressive. It’s a little off point–the OP never asked what anyone thought about her marriage prospects, she asked about finding love, and I was responding in that vein.
Nicole 19

@Taryn,
What exactly has the letter writer achieved on her own…she mentions being too unstable to hold a job and her mental health is fragile, not responding to medication, and not expected to get better any time soon.

Sorry, but love does not cure or improve neurochemical imbalances. And a mental illness that isn’t responding to medication means that the impact that the stresses that a new relationship could cause and the reactions to said stresses will be severe to say the least.

Your comment makes about as much sense as telling a person with terminal cancer that love will cure her. In both cases, it will not, and it makes things VERY hard on the person who attempts to be in a relationship with her. It is just too much for someone who isn’t already in love with you to stick around for.

The letter writer has LOT of work ahead of her in order to find some stability in her life, and the amount of time she needs to put in and the things that she needs to do can’t really be mitigated by engaging in a relationship.
nathan 20

I just wrote a post on my blog that seems to go along with what Evan and some others have written here. http://21centuryrelationships.blogspot.com/2011/12/are-you-depressed-because-you-cant-find.html

However, something about all this doesn’t sit well with me. First off, I might suggest to Kristi, if she hasn’t already, to consider alternative therapies for depression. Here’s a good website with some options. http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/alternative-therapies-depression

Beyond that, though, I think there has to be some wiggle room on this. Because not everyone is going to be happy and/or healthy at the time they meet their significant other, and conditions do change during a lifetime – sometimes unexpectedly in either positive or negative directions. Some of you seem fixated on results here, when the reality is that it sounds like Kristi has been making the effort for some time now.

It seems to me that Kristi could conceivably continue to work on herself, and also attempt to date, but with the caveat that she’s honest with those she goes out with. I agree with Ann that there are probably good men out there who would be interested in having a relationship with Kristi. She may have to face more rejection than the average person, though, so it’s probably important that she consider if she’s able to handle that right now or not.
helene 21

I work as a physician in an area of social deprivation, and a substantial number of my patients suffer from chronic depression, cannot envisage ever being able to hold down a job etc..etc.. Many of these folks are in relationships.A large number, in fact. Are their partners people I would date myself? Well, probably not… but that really doesn’t matter. Ther point is, yes, depressed people do form relationships, sometimes with others who are depressed, or who have some other “handicap” of their own. It is true, as Evan says, that as you are depressed you may not be in a position to contribute as much to another person’s happiness as other people, but that doesn’t mean you have nothing to contribute at all. The partners of my depressed patients seem to accept their life together and their role as part partner/part carer in a pretty philosophical manner. “Misery loves company” as they say, and I would not be surprised if a number of romantic relationships blossom at depression support groups.

Yes, in an ideal world you would “work on yourself” and get better before seeking love. Yes, as Evan says, you are not going to be able to date a gorgeous high-flying rich guy… but then few of us are, depressed or not! Like everyone else, there are men out there who will date you – like everyone else, its a question of whether you are willing to open up and date those who are interested in you. Chronically depressed people do date and form relationships of some sort or another, I see it every day. Good luck…
Evan Marc Katz 22

Thanks for your perspective, Helene.
Ann 23

Helene@21: Exactly! Well put!!
Nicole 24

@Ann, you are incorrect in assuming my background. I’m not a practicing physician but I went to medical school so I do understand the basics behind mental illness. So maybe you don’t know anything about psychiatry but I actually did have to learn these things in school, so I know more than a layperson but clearly much less than a trained shrink.

The letter writer can find a relationship, but having a good relationship with a good partner that lasts is another thing entirely.

She has discussed her difficulties in managing her illness, and that’s not something anyone is inferring here. Her own DOCTOR has told her to work on herself more, precisely b/c of the challenges and risks involved. She did to his advice what you and a lot of people do with the advice given here…she twisted it into hyperbole that she had no right to date and didn’t “deserve” love. No one said that, and the advice given to her is responsible and fair b/c what she is asking will be very, very hard to find, and even harder for her to keep B/C of her hard to manage and out of control illness.

She can do what she wants, but she wrote here looking for validation and that wasn’t given to her b/c frankly it would be the wrong thing to do.

Hopefully she won’t wind up in a situation that pushes her off the cliff, so to speak.
Ann 25

Nicole@24: I didn’t know anything about your background, though by your own admission you are not a doctor or a therapist and therefore are not licensed to advise psychiatric patients. So I stand by my statement that we here are not doctors (though it seems that Helene is). That said, I, too, have studied psychiatry and psychology, though, like you, I have never practiced.

I do know that it is considered unethical for any psychoanalyst to tell a patient explicitly what to do in relationship unless that patient is in danger or presenting a danger to another.

If she wants a consensual sexual or companionate relationship, as she states, and she can find one, which many people agree she can, and she isn’t in any danger to herself or others, why shouldn’t she go for it? Who are we to tell her otherwise?
Goldie 26

Here’s what confuses me. I will admit that I am a layperson who had very limited, brief experience with mild, situational depression. Basically for a few weeks I didn’t want to eat, do anything, or talk to anyone. I went through the motions because I need to run a family and pay the bills. I admit that it was probably an extremely mild case compared to what actual clinical depression must feel like.

So what I don’t understand here is, why the desire to be in a relationship in the first place? A relationship is a lot of work. It places demands on one’s time and energy and involves taking care of another person (and juggling him with all other people you may already have in your life). It’s fun, but at the same time, it is work, kind of like having a pet, or a kid. As they say, be careful what you wish for?

Then again, there are many different ways a committed relationship can work, and some of those may work for the letter writer. In my case, as soon as I recognized what I was going through, I told people that I was already dating that I was not up for anything serious until I felt better. A few of them wished me luck and moved on, others stuck around for sort of semi-casual dating, which actually did make me feel better, like spending time with good friends. It was very low-pressure, low-commitment type of thing that worked for me when I was under my black cloud. Anything serious would’ve probably worn me out at that time.
Nicole 27

@Ann, I’m not going to bother to explain to you the manner in which doctors are educated, and I already pointed out that I’d have learned more than you but less than someone who trained as a psychiatrist…even a licensed doctor isn’t going to know much more beyond the basics that I learned unless he or she completed a residency, but whatever.

The person who told her to get herself together was, in fact, her doctor. So who are YOU to tell her that her doctor is wrong?

But your comments show that you like to misinterpret people’s words so there really isn’t any point in trying to explain any further.
Ruby 28

I’ve been in a relationship with a person with this kind of depressive mental illness. We weren’t involved for very long (although we’d been friends for a few years first), as he simply couldn’t handle a relationship at that time. People with that kind of depression struggle just to get out of bed, have thoughts of suicide,etc. Even on medication, they can go through periods where the medication doesn’t work so well, depending on what else is happening in their life. Or they are feeling better, and decide to decrease or go off their meds, and the depression hits even worse. The fellow I dated wasn’t a bad person, but he was extremely self-involved and not very stable, and not someone I’d wish as a long-term partner, although he eventually did get married. Certainly, he was higher functioning than Kristi, could work, and wasn’t on disability.

But as Helene said, Kristi might be able to form a relationship with someone else who is facing challenges of their own, so it’s not out of the question.
Saint Stephen 29

No! No! No! I vote for working on her condition first before plunging into the dating world. I can’t even believe that some commenters on here would advise otherwise.

Telling a clinically depressed person to actively engage in the dating sphere is one of the terrible advise I’ll ever hear, knowing that the dating world is a “battlefield” which could eventually leave even the most emotionally healthy and mentally stable people- jaded and depressed.

Seriously, i really don’t think Kristi- given her present condition- is fortified enough to survive the casualties that abounds aplenty in the dating world, and a few rejection here and there would leave her contemplating suicide. Don’t even get me started on men who use women as cum dumps, a few encounters with such men and her quest for love might just have a tragic end.
To me Kristi”s safety matters more than finding love.
Cristy 30

I’ve never posted on your website before, EMK however, after reading this post, I’ve felt compelled to!

I have a diagnosis of Depression, and I believe it’s both situational and well, internal. I’ve been taking medication, and also reading a couple of self-help books have helped me along the way. However, for the last 3-4 years or so, it’s been a STRUGGLE because I’ve went to seen so many doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. that I can’t believe that I’m finally at a point where I’m at.
I’m STILL depressed, where I have depressive thoughts, negative feelings, however I’m very thankful to find a way to accept them and just try to “ignore them.” It sounds easy, but it’s taken me 4 years, lots of heardbreak to get to a point where it feels a bit stable.
It’s really hard to HEAR that EMK believes that people won’t really date depressed people, but even when I think about it, I don’t really want to date someone who right off the bat told me, “Hey, I’m depressed just to let you know.” Unfortunately, it’s a stigma, and even as open as I am, I still would like to try to date someone remotely healthy.
I’ve had my share of people who were verbally abusive but had no “diagnoses,” although I really think they could have diagnosed with depression, too. I studied Psychology, so I have had experience and knowledge in this field. The people I dated were unhealthy, and EMK should really emphasize it more that if you’re unhealthy, you will NATURALLY attract unhealthy people. Given Kristi’s situation is much severe than most people here (even I was diagnosed with SEVERE DEPRESSION, however I am working, funcitoning w/ daily life, just t he relationshilp part is very lacking), it’s very hard for us to sit here and judge her when we really do NOT know her situation that well.
As for EMK’s post, I’m a bit disappointed at his lack of compassion, although he did express his empathy during the beginning. I just expected more from him but I guess he’s just giving his “tough love,” in a way of how a man would think from the beginning.
I’ll tell you this, however, it’s best to keep some things to yourself in the beginning, however if you think you CAN manage your depression, go out and try to have fun in the dating world. In a way, everybody’s a little bit messed up, so I don’t think depressed people should hinder themselves just because of this “disability” or this “shortcoming,.” There are lots of people with their shortcomings, “i.e., baldness, shortness, hairy arms, etc.” or whatever it may be, however, the key is to be acceptable of yourself and have a “WTF” attitude (I know, I know, but it’s true) and that YOU ARE contributing to this world!

When you think like that, have confidence, you REALLY can come up with a solution, it may not be a solution that you wanted in the first place, but it will be a WORKABLE solution for you. I hope that EMK will understand this disorder more and give more compassion to the reader and other readers like myself out there. Thanks however for touching on this controversial subject.
Casey 31

Totally agree with Saint Stephen…Dating itself can put you into situational depression after a few bad experiences and this girl can’t even hold as job!!!…Really, you would advise her to date???
Ruby 32

Cristy # 30

<<In a way, everybody’s a little bit messed up, so I don’t think depressed people should hinder themselves just because of this “disability” or this “shortcoming,.” There are lots of people with their shortcomings, “i.e., baldness, shortness, hairy arms, etc.” or whatever it may be, >>

I don’t think you can compare someone who has severe depressive mental illness with baldness or hairy arms, sorry. Mental illness isn’t a “disability” in quotation marks, it’s a disability, period. If Kristi is too unstable to keep a job, and is on disability and public aid, dating is going to be very tough. But as I said, she may be able to find someone in similar straights who would be more accepting.
Evan Marc Katz 33

Cristy, I’m not sure how I could have been more compassionate, apart from giving her false validation about her dating prospects that I really don’t believe. Is that “tough love”? I don’t think there’s anything predictably tough about it, no more than it’s “tough love” to tell me that I’m never going to have a career like Oprah Winfrey. It’s just, you know, honest. Add in that I spent considerable time talking about my own low-level depression and how difficult it was for me to function and for anyone to date me, and it’s unclear to me what I should have told the OP that would have been better advice.
nathan 34

You know, I tend to agree with those of you taking the tough love stance here, but feel that there has to be some wiggle room in the discussion. Telling someone who has spent years working on themselves that they should just keep on doing that, and not at all considering dating, until some unquantifiable results come about, is basically saying “you’re screwed” to someone. I completely agree that someone in Kristi’s position will have a difficult time dating, and it might not work for a variety of reasons. Furthermore, someone like her should have no illusions about how meeting someone might suddenly “cure” her, because that’s just nonsense.

But some of you are talking about Kristi like she’s little better than a child, when in fact she’s a grown woman who clearly has her shit together enough to send in a thoughtful letter asking legitimate questions to Evan’s blog. Perhaps some of you think – she wrote a letter, so what? But I’ve seen hundreds of letters sent into dating blogs, and thousands of comments made on dating blogs – and many of them lack the awareness Kristi expresses here about her current situation.

Given that, and the fact that we also don’t know her dating history and/or how long she actually worked with any of these therapists she mention, to me it makes sense to leave the door open a crack in whatever advice being given. To recognize that while the odds might be stacked against her, she’s not a hopeless case, based on what we currently know.
Sayanta 35

Cristy,

I think you’re substituting ‘compassion’ for ‘why didn’t he tell me what I want to hear?’
Goldie 36

@ Nathan, telling someone they’re not at a good point right now to be in a relationship is not the same, IMO, as telling them they’re screwed. It’s just saying that this type of work, right now, won’t be good or beneficial for them. I actually agree with St.Stephen on this one, it may end badly.

It’s like me asking, if any amount of running gives me horrible back and knee pain, should I run marathons in the state I’m in, or should I first figure out how to make the knee and back pain go away? If you tell me I’m not in a position to run marathons right now, it won’t be a judgment on me as a person. You won’t be telling me I’m screwed. You will instead be telling me that I, the way I am now, would hate running marathons, because marathons will make me hurt like hell.
Ellen 37

I basically agree with Nathan- her case isn’t quite hopeless, shouldn’t be considered totally hopeless (though the odds are stacked against her, undoubtedly).

Maybe another depressed man will find her and they can struggle together at least. It won’t be easy, but her paired with a so-called “content, happy” man wouldn’t be easy either. I feel she has some sort of basic right to love and happiness, despite her condition. Not necessarily to drag anyone down so to speak, but to seek it somehow nonetheless. Hard to articulate.

Lots of people are dysfunctional imo- I’m meeting them on dates for God’s sake. Unfortunately, they come across as normal in their profiles, for several dates, til the “demons” appear, sometimes quite suddenly. They just don’t go about proclaiming how chronically depressed/fubar they are upfront as this gal has done. A lot of these men are chronically jerks, or chronically passive aggressive, or chronically controlling or chronically whatever (fill in the blanks).

Depression is, imo, the soul in crisis, desperately wanting more, desperately dissatisfied with the world’s status quo and it’s serious business. One has to find a way to be happy regardless, to eschew drugs if possible. Some depressions are basically chemical though and drugs then are the ONLY answer.
Margaret 38

The one thing I have found is that there is no rhyme or reason in love. I have personally seen women who are arguably more compromised than the OP and have loving, stable, overall great men in their lives. And, as Nathan so astutely pointed out, she appears to be far more self aware than many people, men and women.

I think that all *any* of us can do, is to continue growing and striving to be our best selves, whatever that may be. The rest will have to sort itself out. Human beings are all defective in some manner. It is all in the eye of the beholder.
Ann 39

Nicole@27: You don’t really know anything about me, my education, or my life experiences, so it’s pretty bizarre that you are asserting that you know more than I do about anything in particular. Very weird.

Here’s the bottom line here. The OP wrote in asking EMK if he thought anyone would date her given her condition and how she could go about finding someone. He said he didn’t think anyone would date her and others agreed. Others disagreed, I among them. Based on what I have seen out there, there are plenty of folks who find others willing to be in relationship with them, no matter what their handicaps. And if our OP meets one of those guys, do you think she’s going to say no to him because of anything we say on this blog? No. She’s going to go out with him!
nathan 40

Goldie, the reason why I used the term “screwed” is that she has been told the same thing for years, and is getting the same “keep working on yourself” message from many on here. If you kept being told to do the same thing year after year, and nothing much changed, wouldn’t you feel screwed?

Anyway, I stand behind what I wrote above. There are plenty of folks out there without diagnoses. who are able to hold down jobs and otherwise look fine on paper, but are actually disasters in relationships. It just seems a little too easy to categorize someone like Kristi as “completely undateable” right now, whereas everyone on here probably has been on dates (or in relationships) with people who turned out to be completely the opposite (in a negative way) from what they appeared to be.
Margaret 41

@ nathan # 40 I totally agree with your assertions.
Kristi 42

First off, Wow. Look at the fiery controversy I seem to have started.
Thank you EMK, and everyone for all your different opinions.
I have a few things I want to say:
It has been mentioned by a few people that you don’t know enough about my life/situation/dating history.
I’ve been told many different things by many different professionals, most of whom were not very helpful at all. Some have told me to focus on my health first, others have expressed that they didn’t think I was too unhealthy for a relationship at all.
I don’t work because I tend to be oversensitive to peer/coworker’s criticisms and this negatively affects my condition. Last time I had a full-time occupation, I got bullied/gossiped about by my peers which caused me to have a mental breakdown.
However, just because I can’t contribute much money into a relationship doesn’t mean I don’t have anything to contribute.

The two biggest problems I’ve had so far in dating
1) Not getting dates in the first place(No one wanting to go out with me before the depression issue even comes up)
2) The person I’m dating being abusive/abandoning me after they have found out I’m depressed.

Angie@14 , “It shouldn’t be “Are depressed people deserving of love?”. It should be “Am I capable of 100% dedicating myself to and being good to another person, and 100% refusing to let the depression bring negativity into the relationship?” (If your answer is “They should just deal with it” then I agree that you need to “Work on yourself first” b/c no one should be in a relationship if they aren’t willing to give the best of themselves, and you ideally want to find a person who complements you and motivates you towards your best, not enables you to be at your worst).”
I’m capable of loving and dedicating myself to another person, I’m capable of honesty, and openness. (I don’t shut out close friends or partners when I’m depressed). I cannot promise to be positive at all times, I cannot promise to pretend to be happy all the time when I’m not, I cannot promise to never need help or support. But I could promise to support the other person if they went through stuff just as long they didn’t take it out on me. And I wouldn’t take my issues out on others, either.
I’m still intimate when I’m depressed. Like I’m not this bitchy, reclusive person that yells at everyone and doesn’t have sex, doesn’t want to go out or do anything, ignores their partner, and all those stereotypes that go along with depressed people. I’m very loving and I love to spend time, give to, and support the person I love. I’m just sad sometimes.
I want to learn how to minimize the effect of my depression on them as much as possible.
Nicole@12 “they have learned perhaps when they need space and how to minimize the impact of their illness on those around them, b/c they took the time and did the work.”
That’s funny that you say that, because that is precisely what I wrote the letter to find out. How to minimize the impact on those around them. That’s what I want to learn to do.
Kristi 43

Christy@30 “if you’re unhealthy, you will NATURALLY attract unhealthy people.” . Yeah, that’s kind of what I’ve been experiencing, not just with dating, but with friendships, too. When you say, “I’ve had my share of people who were verbally abusive but had no “diagnoses,” although I really think they could have diagnosed with depression, too.”. Yeah, that’s what I’ve been experiencing with dating and friendships. Healthy people don’t want to date or even be friends with me. Instead, I get people who are either sick themselves, or healthy but abusive.
And I’ve had my fair share of abusive people who weren’t depressed, rather took advantage of my depressed state to be mentally abusive/passive-aggressive/using/controlling, blaming me for my depression to make me feel bad, ect… Depressed people are very easy to take advantage of when they’re going through a bad episode. They have very little willpower or self esteem and might not even realize the other person is treating them badly…
Saint Stephen@29 “Seriously, i really don’t think Kristi- given her present condition- is fortified enough to survive the casualties that abounds aplenty in the dating world, and a few rejection here and there would leave her contemplating suicide. Don’t even get me started on men who use women as cum dumps, a few encounters with such men and her quest for love might just have a tragic end.
To me Kristi”s safety matters more than finding love.”
Yeah, I know what you mean the last person I dated wasn’t so nice to me and it took a lot out of me. We met when I was in a depressed episode. She didn’t want anything to do with it, so we took a break. We started seeing each other when I was just kinda coming out of it and she just dragged me back down with her passive-aggressive mind games. That, and she’d simultaneously be pressuring me to get better faster while being occasionally mentally sabotaging. It was like she was yelling at me to get up and holding me down to the ground at the same time. She put so much pressure on me to get better right away that the stress was actually making me sicker. After we cut contact, it took a few months for me to recover. I kinda feel like she (indirectly) almost killed me.
Helen 44

Kristi and Evan: I admire your courage for putting it out there as you did.

Even before reading Evan’s response, I was thinking that Kristi’s therapists were right in saying that she needed to make herself healthy first before entering an intimate relationship. Maybe one problem is, Kristi, that they didn’t tell you how exactly you were supposed to do that. Sometimes, telling a person “You need to do or be this” without offering guidance on HOW to do so can be frustrating and construed as insensitive, and therefore the advice is not taken seriously.

Especially if the advice is so broad as “You need to work on yourself first” – very true, but how and where to start? I cannot offer directions (Kristi, hopefully your therapist can), but will offer you a perspective: ALL of us need to work on ourselves, all of us have weaknesses, none of us are completely healthy in every aspect of our being. Also, even those of us who are not clinically depressed find it hard to take the proactive steps needed to change those weaknesses in our lives nd ourselves. There are different degrees, but please know that you are not alone in your struggle to become a healthier being.

Maybe the therapists’ advice could be taken in another way as: “Take care of yourself first; you deserve it.” Laura 3 started to get at some of this; I agree and add that, as much as possible, eat as well as you can, exercise and spend time outdoors every day if you can, take time to meditate if you can, and sleep as well as you can.

Taking care of yourself is loving yourself, and is always good to get in place before sharing that love with others. As Stephen 29 says, it’s a battlefield out there, and it would be an absolute tragedy if someone were to take advantage of another’s depression.

Best of luck to you.
Goldie 45

Nathan, I agree with you on one point — that it is probably not 100% correct to, as you say, categorize Kristi as completely undateable. Moreover, I’m pretty sure there will be men willing to go out with Kristi. My point is, why would she want it? it is a lot of work (and, in case of dating, it’s a lot of thankless work with hardly any returns on the investment). On top of all the work she’s already doing trying to get better herself, why load this additional burden upon her shoulders?

Dating and being in a relationship isn’t all fun and games. It isn’t some kind of benefit you get to enjoy in return for being a well-adjusted person. You think Kristi’s doctors keep telling her to work on herself because they are hellbent on depriving her of something fun that they think she doesn’t deserve? I think they say this with her best interests in mind.

Personally, I went back on the dating market when I did, because I was curious to find out what a good, healthy relationship would feel like — I’d never had one. But, at the same time, I thought I was strong and adjusted enough to be able to handle whichever bad things would happen. (I’d overestimated myself, BTW, at least on one occasion.)
Helen 46

nathan 40: while I have always enjoyed reading your perspectives because they seem so calm and thoughtful, I do not think that this advice means that Kristi is, or should feel, screwed. I think that the fact that she received this advice at all means that she is at an ADVANTAGE over those who don’t receive advice, if she chooses to follow it.

You are so right that many people look like they have it all together on the outside, but don’t on the inside. I confess to being one of them, somehow giving off the impression of smartness when many times I feel like an idiot. I have been advised by colleagues who care for me most to hold back on reaching for this assignment or that responsibility until I work on myself first (my position, accomplishments, expertise, and yes, even age). But I have never taken their advice as meaning that I’m screwed. I’ve seen folks at the same level as me trying to reach for those things and devoting too much of their time and energy, and THEY are the ones who wind up screwed and burned out because they tried for something they were not ready for.

The advice Kristi received is advice that, as you alluded to, many if not most of us should take too, to one degree or another. Take care of yourself first and make yourself as healthy as possible before taking on more of the world, whether that means a relationship or a job or anything else. It’s not meant to be personal. It’s practical.
Nicole 47

@Kristi, as I mentioned, I went to medical school but I’m not a practicing health professional. Your doctors are human but I hope you realize they are trying to help you and I dont’ think you should jump around between doctors and therapists just to get the answer you want. You should do what you want but as you mentioned, there are perhaps more pitfalls than you might face if you were in a better place. Don’t those bad relationships with people who abuse you make things worse for you? Don’t you want to find someone who isn’t like that, and do you see how that might correlate with being healthier and stronger?

The people that I know that have managed to find love and maintain successful careers did a LOT of work to get to that point.

But I can tell you that they carefully manage their lives with regimens that they have carefully crafted over time, and involved mixing their therapy with medication, exercise, spirituality, rest, etc. I don’t know what they do when they feel themselves “falling” again. But I think they recognize it and step things up in terms of the things that make them feel better.

I don’t think that formula is the same for everyone, but I do know that some of them have managed to find the balance for themselves.
But I do know that one of the best examples of this did find love while at a moment that showed her best self, and I think it’s why she found a good partner.
nathan 48

Goldie, I agree that relationships include effort and facing challenges. I’m not sure I’d want to venture out into the dating world with all that on my plate, either. And actually, most of what I write about on my own blog, as well as in the comments I make on others tends to point people back in the direction of taking care of their own issues, projections, misreadings, etc. I think it’s vitally important to develop your self-awareness, as well as learning how to deeply listen to others, and learning to respond from that place, instead of simply reacting and/or blaming. So, I’m a bit out on a limb here, but again, something about the tone of comments here reminded me of times when I’ve been depressed in the past, and received repetitive, sometimes patronizing, and ultimately useless advice about how to “get better.”

Helen, in some ways, I’m just trying to balance out the numerous comments suggesting Kristi should just keep working on herself. At first, by offering another possible angle with the alternative therapies approach, but also by suggesting that this isn’t a 100% open and shut case. Perhaps the advice you have received from colleagues and others was specific enough, and targeted enough, that it actually had a positive impact on you. I have experienced such well timed and thoughtful advice before myself. What I’m hearing from Kristi is that whatever was offered to her didn’t really have that kind of impact. Now, maybe that’s because she’s not listening closely enough and/or isn’t open enough yet to change, but maybe it’s because what was offered in terms of advice was too general and/or overly negative. I don’t know. However, I do know that if you hear the same kinds of messages over and over again, for years on end, it’s hard not to take it in and feel defective. That’s what I hear Kristi wondering about – if she’s defective to the point where she isn’t worthy of dating. And I want to be a voice against that story, while also upholding the fact that she – and everyone really – needs to keep working on themselves.
Ann 49

Kristi@43: In my post #39 I wrote about you going out with a guy, but in fact it sounds like you’re gay. Sorry about that assumption on my part.

Nathan: I wrote earlier that I thought your #40 comment was right on the money but the comment didn’t show up (sometimes internet connection breaks without warning). Also agree with #48, that if you keep hearing the same thing over and over it’s easy to internalize a negative message and “act as if,” when really the message is more about the original person or the environment than about you. So you have to get away from the people who need for you to be in a certain box (like the “crazy, depressed” box) if you don’t happen to like that box. This comment is especially great:

“That’s what I hear Kristi wondering about – if she’s defective to the point where she isn’t worthy of dating. I want to be a voice against that story, while also upholding the fact that she – and everyone really – needs to keep working on themselves.”

That’s where I’m coming from, too.
Ann 50

Also, Nathan@48, I do understand that it is a violation of professional ethics for a psychiatrist to tell a patient that he or she “can’t” or “shouldn’t” be in romantic relationships. I’ve had two psychotherapists in my state confirm this for me. (Intervening in cases of abuse is different, though.) So if a therapist says this, it’s a red flag. Here are some other red flags:

http://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/warning-signs-of-bad-therapy/
Honey 51

It seems that the issue isn’t whether a loving, supportive relationship with a healthy and balanced individual would improve Kristi’s ability to deal with her depression. I think almost everyone here would agree that it would. However – and unfortunately – most people have to date a LOT before they find a relationship like that, even if they are mentally healthy. So the question becomes – will dating (which by its very nature includes those you are interested in rejecting you, those who are interested in you not meeting your standards, having your feelings hurt, feeling bad because you have to hurt other peoples feelings) improve Kristi’s ability to deal with her depression? I doubt it. And the more often things don’t work out, the likelier she is to believe that she’s not deserving, which feeds the depression, which leads to the next thing not working out…it’s a self-perpetuating cycle. I think that’s what EMK is getting at. Honestly I would suggest that (if she doesn’t have a pet already) that she get a cat or a dog. Something that will love her unconditionally regardless of a depressed mental state (and thus feed her self-esteem) and also that she is responsible for taking care of (feeding, exercising, cleaning up after, etc.). I’d also suggest that she stop trying to actively “date” but to view her interactions with every single person as an opportunity to connect with another human being. Then let the connection evolve as organically as possible.
Carla 52

Kristi,

I know this is totally off topic but you may want to explore a raw food diet to help your depression. I eat mainly raw food and I’ve read on several support forums/boards of people curing mental illness by consuming a mainly raw vegan diet when all other treatments/drugs failed.

As I have found in exploring alternative ways to improve my health, the medical establishment knows very little about nutrition and its impact on your body and health. And after all I am sure you have been through, what do you have to lose? And, in my humble opinion, you have everything to gain.
Kristi 53

Nicole@47 , I’m not jumping around from doctor to doctor to hear what I want to hear. I keep jumping around from doctor to doctor because none of my psychiatrists have been of any help

@ Nathan when you said, “something about the tone of comments here reminded me of times when I’ve been depressed in the past, and received repetitive, sometimes patronizing, and ultimately useless advice about how to “get better.”

Yeah, that’s basically what I get from any therapist I visit. They don’t actually listen to my issues and they give advice which is just as patronizing, over-general, and ultimately useless as the average person would. Whatever I say, they just say, “don’t worry about it” and feed me pills that don’t work.
And again, they’ve all had very different opinions as to what I should do…
Kristi 54

Ann@50 , your 50 warning signs of bad therapists seems to describe every therapist I’ve ever had
Marie 55

I’ve dealt with ongoing depression since I was 11 years old, due to ongoing childhood traumas. Try a therapy method called Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT). It is highly effective for helping people with medication-resistant depression, and the therapist will not discourage you from having a healthy romantic relationship… you’ll also have a chance to work on yourself while you’re meeting new people and building a life worth living and worthy of a stable relationship where depression is something you handle on the side when it comes up, not something that dictates your daily existence.
SnowdropExplodes 56

Kristi:

I’m definitely recommending the Julie Fast “Get It Done When You’re Depressed” book again, if you haven’t already got it, because from your further comments it sounds like it’s got what you’re looking for.   It’s definitely a cut above the patronising crap that friends/relatives/therapists tend to spew (and Lord knows I’ve heard enough of those to last a lifetime).

The two biggest problems I’ve had so far in dating
1)    Not getting dates in the first place(No one wanting to go out with me before the depression issue even comes up)
2)    The person I’m dating being abusive/abandoning me after they have found out I’m depressed.

I think these are problems that are risks for everyone and depression can make us more vulnerable when they do happen (and Lord knows, I’ve had #1 so often!)   I think writing a letter to yourself when in a less depressed state about what standards you expect from a partner, and what you’re like when you’re well, is a good option (that’s a version of a technique in the Julie Fast book, blended with a smidgeon of the better snippets of “He’s Just Not That Into You”) can help us keep in touch with what a healthy relationship looks like even when the illness is blinding us to what we really need and have a right to expect.

I won’t write out the same advice from my earlier comment, but just a reminder that love can come true for anyone, regardless of mental health status, but it takes work for everyone and depression is an illness that hates us to achieve anything or do anything and tries to stop us.   I’ll say again: don’t wait until you feel like it, do it anyway and then motivation will follow.   That will enable you to do the stuff you need to attract someone who is good for you and whom you deserve.
draga 57

Kristi,
Try the method exposed in this book. It will help you.
http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-New-Mood-Therapy/dp/0380810336/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323557787&sr=8-1
Ann 58

Kristi@54: I know. It’s really hard to find a therapist that you can have a good, helpful relationship with because they have their baggage, too. But I am pretty clear that a therapist cannot interfere with our big-life decisions, such as choosing to partner up or not. Having relationships is a part of life and their job is to be our advocates and help us navigate the tricky passages, not to make us dependent on them for our decision-making.

Of course, part of the therapeutic process is to come to a place of trusting the doctor. That can take time, and the doctor has to do his/her part in developing that trust. Such as discussing with you why you’re taking this or that medicine and why he/she is advising a certain course of action. They have to have the humility to admit that they may not know what we should do, while letting us know that they’ll still be there for us if our decisions don’t work out the way we wanted. And we have to open our minds to trusting them and really understanding where they are coming from. Hard to believe that “you’re too defective to have a relationship” is a helpful or therapeutic message in any circumstance.

All the best.
Sarahrahrah! 59

Love this thread.

I’ll qualify my opinion by saying that I have a background in mental health. From that basis I would say that perhaps Kristi could find a meaningful and ethical relationship with another person who is dealing with depression as long as both people acknowledge their problems and are committed to allowing each person to deal with his/her problems on their own.

Almost every journey we travel in life is enhanced through companionship. I don’t see why Kristi couldn’t have this so long as she was open about her issues and protected herself from potential predators. The idea of having a date/partner who also suffers from depression (or anxiety, because they might actually complement each other better) means that they might find some understanding that they wouldn’t get from most others and also not feel the pressure to act phony or falsely happy, as is often the practice inour inauthentic culture.

As long as she is honest going into things and keeps her eyes wide open, I don’t see why this couldn’t be a possibility. (And I didn’t even mention sex which has an energizing and antidepressant effect on people.)
Joe'l 60

I am struggling with somewhat of a depression. Im going through a divorce. I have 2 children, I have cerebral palsy and thyroid cancer. I am recently interested in someone and he said he just doesnt want to be in a relationship right now i took it personal and cried and cried. Not in front of him of course. I still think its me. And it might be me. The bottom line is i have to do something to get myself back to the way i used to be. My hormones are all out of wack so i understand how hard it is to struggle because its not about a routine or staying busy to try to make your self feel better. There are vitiams available you can take to make your self feel better. I have low self esteem and i think it would help if i had someone that made me feel good about myself and wasnt always going to put me down. But i realized that no one was going to take the time to build my confidance. I had to do it myself. I also learned that if someone really loves you it wont matter to you what is wrong with you. They will hold your hand and help you through it. You just havent meant that person.
Kristi 61

Sarahrahrah!@59 , that’s what I want to do. I myself am pretty self-aware and honest about my issues, but I find it hard to predict whether someone else is self-aware before investing in them.
In the past, everyone I’ve dated who’s had issues has been in (at least partial) denial about them. I’ve noticed people who are not honest with themselves about their issues are the type to project things onto others, blame others for their own behavior, try to force other people with obvious issues to hide their symptoms or act falsely happy around them, not communicate their feelings or needs, be emotionally abusive, ect…

I’m wondering if there are any “warning signs” that hint that someone may be dishonest with themselves or others, so I can be a better judge of character, and avoid dating someone with denial/dishonesty issues.
Nikki 62

I only read about half of the comments, so if someone already said this I apologize. I’m not a doctor, so my opinion is entirely based on my own experience before anyone attacks! I’ve had depression since I was 6 – I first tried to commit suicide when I was 12. I’m not sure if its situational, as there were many, many situations that could have brought it on. It could very well be chronic. For me, while love may be hard to find while depressed, it can very well be a worthwhile pursuit. While I understand what Evan and others are saying, I think sometimes love can be the very thing that can push a person to make the changes needed to become a “functioning” person. Again, this is based on my experience. I know that for many years, I did everything my therapist said: affirmations, changing negative thinking to positive, working on myself, gratitude journals, etc. None of it took until I fell in love. For me, the relationship pulled me out of myself. For once, I had to focus on something other than myself. I had someone who told me they loved me, and that I was worth fighting for. I had someone (not a therapist I paid once week) telling me that I was a worthwhile person. I saw the world through another’s eyes. Essentially, the experience made me WANT to get better. It’s very difficult sometimes to work on yourself, just for the sake of working on yourself. You can very well do everything your doctor tells you to do, and the hard work is not worth it if you’re still lonely, pushing you back into a depression. For some people, it takes a little bit of kick in the rear or someone who cares about them believing in them to get them to move in the right direction. Regardless, best of luck Kristi – I’ve been there. While Evan is right about people not entering into a relationship with someone simply because the person “deserves” it, I hope you find a good one. Because I’ve seen the transformations in people who found someone who loved them.
Lynn Williams 63

Its no surprise that this article prompted a good many responses. Depression and relationships is a tough one and if you can’t shake your depression then what? This article did make me ponder what must be a very difficult situation. Its difficult to know what to tell someone in this situation. I guess the best most of us can do is listen.
Kay 64

Kristi,
Thank you for your letter, for having the courage to put into words what I privately stress about. I have severe recurrent depression. I have come very close to committing suicide twice and the thought is always lurking in the background. Medication (pretty high dose) during those two episodes only served to even out the worst of the symptoms so I could get on with the basic routines of everyday life.
I was fortunate to have come across two wonderful therapists (one a social worker, one a psychologist) and two psychiatrists who helped me. They all taught me how to recognize my triggers. The psychologist told me right off that she practiced Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). It was talk therapy, but it was also very concrete. She didn’t just talk things out with me, she walked me through exercises step-by-step — in the therapy room with a simple task, and to prep for a functional task in my daily life. And she always brought it back to how I felt about it. Having her break down each step, and helping me learn how to break tasks down myself, was what eventually made the difference for me. It wasn’t just telling me to focus on one thing at a time. She involved me, and it stuck. Suddenly what was so overwhelming before became manageable. I don’t know if you’ve gone through CBT before but I believe it’s worth a try (not sure if it’s the same thing as DBT that someone mentioned). It sounded like you’re looking for something concrete and actionable.
You’d also mentioned that you don’t shut out friends and partners. Are they willing to make a deal with you — holding you accountable for one thing, however small, everyday? Have a visual to show that you did whatever it was, over a period of time. In the beginning you might just feel like you’re going through the motions because you don’t want to let your friends down, but having the visual might help you realize that you can indeed manage certain tasks over a period of time, and therefore give you a sense of accomplishment.
A speech-language pathologist (speech therapist) who specializes in treating executive functions might also be able to teach you to break things down, plan things out, and actually carry through. Merely a suggestion because I know for me, the smallest thing becomes overwhelming when I’m going through an episode and I end up pulling the blanket over my head.
As far as dating goes, I struggle with whether to be upfront about my depression or not. If it’s someone I really, really like, I am generally upfront. Better to know before even more feelings are invested. I might temper it a bit by alluding to bits and pieces to gauge the guy’s reaction each time. You asked about any warning signs. I’ve learned to be wary of anyone who:
(1) quotes incessantly — I want to know your thoughts in your words, not someone else’s words.
(2) uses a lot of meaningless/pat answers that tell me nothing — I ask ‘how’ and ‘why’ questions, when appropriate. If they glide over the answer every time, warning bells ring in my head.
(3) can only converse about people and things, and shy away from ideas (doesn’t have to be deep thoughts). To me, being able to step away from first and second person points of view and look at ideas from all angles tells me that the person is less likely to play the blame game.
(4) turns everything into a debate. What happened to discussion?
(5) is overly sarcastic. It seems too many people pride themselves on having a sarcastic sense of humor. Sorry but I don’t find that to be an attractive trait. Sarcasm can be taken the wrong way by the closest of friends. It can slide easily into real criticism.
Granted, there are exceptions to the above. They are just my observations from personal experiences over time.
Kristi, I hope what I’ve written is somewhat helpful. I am going through an episode right now, in fact, but it hasn’t been as bad as before because I remember what my therapists taught me, and practiced them actively during my good periods. I don’t know if there are days that are easier for you than others. If there are, try out different strategies, find one(s) that work for you, and practice them on your good days until they become automatic.
p.s. EMK and Helen – I found your thoughts to be especially helpful for me. Thank you.
Sarah Eisenberg 65

Hi Kristi:

I’m not sure if you are still reading this message chain, as the original posting is rather dated, but I hope that you do come across my thoughts. Reading your letter to Evan brought tears to my eyes, because I can deeply relate, as I have also struggled with a lifetime of depression and loneliness. Therapy and medication do not always help, as the road to healing is often a lonely one. I hope that my words can help inspire you. I don’t agree with the “advice” that Evan dished out to you; in fact, I found it rather cruel and heartless. Yes, you must take responsibility for your own happiness. You only have one life, and you must make that life count. Every human being has things in their life for which they can be grateful for. What are you grateful for?

Can depressed people find love? Yes, they can. But you have to believe it. You have to start from place of hope. You have to have faith that your other half is out there, trying to find you. I know this because I am blessed with many friends from all different walks of life, most of which have found their life partner. None of these people are perfect. They all struggle, some perhaps more privately than others, with depression, debts, personal failures. They are also good, talented people with accomplishments and jobs and families. Some do not have jobs because of serious health problems. But they are still loved by a significant other. I often turn to my friends and their significant others for inspiration, because they remind me that for every pot there’s a lid. I’ve been single for many years myself, but I have never given up trying.
I also believe in this because of my own faith. In Judaism, we believe in something called bashert, which essentially means soulmate. Every human being is fated to his or her own bashert. You have to trust that eventually, your life will lead you to that person, when the time is right, and that person will accept you for who you are, depression or not. We only have so much control over our lives, and no one has control over the will of another person. Perhaps you just haven’t met that special person yet. All you can do is keep trying, and don’t lose hope. There is someone out there for you.

Keep going to therapy and taking your medication if you believe that it is really working. YOU are your own best advocate. Live your life believing that you are worthy of happiness and joy. Say it out loud to yourself everyday like a mantra: I am worthy of happiness. Find an activity that makes you happy–writing, painting, playing music, sports, volunteer work–and make time for it. It doesn’t matter what other people thing, and you are better off cutting toxic people out of your life as much as possible. It’s OK to get depressed sometimes. You are who you are, but also deserve to be happy. When you are happy, you are confident, and that is the most attractive thing. You have a beautiful, sensitive soul, and you are worthy of love. YES, you will love and be loved eventually. BELIEVE IT.

Remember, you only have one life. Enjoy it. I hope your bashert comes into your life soon.
Heather 66

I suffer from depression, and it is an every day struggle. Just to overcome the blues. I’m also anxious anymore, but that is due to a lot of big changes in my life, which I openly welcome.

With depression, I think the way you meet people may need to be shifted. If you are finding it hard to approach someone, or you have had no luck when surrounded by people try online dating, or even getting into online video games. Join a social web group and connect with people of similar interests. Did you know on the DISboards there is a single seeking single forum? If you have any love for Disney, that could be a good place.

Don’t beat yourself up if you don’t find love right away. I did. I made mistakes and rushed into bad relationships trying to fill the void of loneliness I felt atop of my depression. At one point I came to accept I’d never have the one person I had come to love through an online game, and started making plans to marry someone who I knew…had little time left and would never give me a child or a happy home. BUT, I took a risk and was ready to be crushed and yet he said yes.

Don’t let depression control you. Let it be your armor…

Ironically I have been told that I am a completely different person when I am around my boyfriend. I’m happier, and more out going. I am pretty depressed and anxious at the moment because he’s 2400 miles away and I’m trying to save money for the move. ugn, sorry rambling again and offering advice when the person posting the question may never read my reply, hahaha.
Ian 67

Hey I stumbled upon this article, and Evan – I have a question for you. Though I’m a man, this article and response rang true for me. Evan, your experience that you shared about your depression sounds eerily similar to mine. After high school and college I experienced anxiety and depression. After college, it was far worse. Your comment about subconscious freak outs was right on point. For me, it was the same. I was (and still am) very sensitive and in social situations, I would internalize a lot, and this led to somewhat of a subconscious battle with my confidence and identity. After college, I was worn out, depressed, and haunted by anxious ruminations of potential future failures and permanent mental health problems (that was my fear). I was fortunate enough to land a job right after college and it helped. However, it was a struggle. It’s been about two years, and I’m much better, but at times still have a dip. Did your experience last long? I wonder if mine is circumstantial or if it’s a chronic situation. I graduated from college with honors, now have two jobs and got accepted into graduate school. However, I still struggle at times with some brief (a few days) moments of setback. It is sometimes difficult to get out of it. Is this common?
Evan Marc Katz 68

Ian – I usually don’t take questions on here, but this one is close to my heart. Do everything you can to battle this. It can go away – as you move on with your life – and get away from the epicenter of the earthquake – but there’s no guarantee of that. Read books, take courses, put yourself outside your comfort zone, see a shrink, talk to friends, try antidepressants. Just don’t let it beat you. You can and will get to the other side of it; you just won’t know until it’s gone. Mine had everything to do with career and almost nothing to do with anything else. Once I figured that out, I never had anxiety again. Give it time, my friend.
Ian 69

Thanks for making the exception, Evan. Time certainly has helped, and I’ve seen tremendous growth since the “epicenter of the earthquake”. It’s only when it hits that it feels insurmountable. Fortunately, about 70 percent of the time I’m my old self (or new self – if you’re looking at it from the viewpoint of growth and a new strength). When it first began, it was 100 percent bad. I guess you could say that’s a positive sign. Thanks for responding.
Joe 70

Evan: so in other words, if you’re as depressed as Kristi, you’re fucked? Maybe it could be considered brutally honest, but it’s certainly not a helpful response to her letter.
Evan Marc Katz 71

I gave my best answer, Joe. How exactly would you help Kristi?

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