Both Men and Women Prefer Dating Younger

Both Men and Women Prefer Dating Younger

Add this to the annals of studies that confirm things we already know anecdotally.

A piece in Time Magazine cites numbers from the Are You Interested Facebook app that concludes that, among 35,942 users ages 30 to 49, a woman was five times more likely to show interest in a man who was five years her junior, rather than one who was five years older.

Men’s preferences are shaped not just by looks but by fertility, which is why many have 35 as a cutoff.

Similarly, among 26,434 men ages 30 to 49, 42% wouldn’t even consider a woman if she was older than him. However, if contacted by an older woman, men wouldn’t necessarily turn her down. The data shows that a man is only 22% less likely to respond to an older woman than a younger woman if she initiates contact.

This is the exact same observation I make in Finding the One Online. Namely, that if you look at a typical 40 year old man’s search preferences, it will generally read 27-35. And if you look at a typical 40 year old woman’s search preferences, it’ll generally read 35-45. However, men’s preferences are shaped not just by looks but by fertility, which is why many have 35 as a cutoff. And while women will write 35-45, they will almost always prefer a man her age or younger.

There are WAY too many exceptions to this for us to fight about, so please, let’s not. Let’s just agree that women, like men, prefer dating younger, that men are receptive to emails from all sorts of women, and that both genders are equally driven by youth and beauty. The difference is that women also care about money, career, education and height, which makes their dating pools shrink proportionately.

Read the full article here and share your comments below.

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Comments:

  1. 61
    Little Wing

    @Henriette
    Thanks for the link. It’s a really interesting piece.

  2. 62
    Karmic Equation

    @Ruby and all who think that I’m being picky at 5ft wanting to date 5’9″

    Height is to women probably what boob size is to men. We don’t normally chastise men for preferring C-cups over A-cups. So while not PC, I think that my preference for height doesn’t need defending. I also like men whose shoulders are broader than their hips (v-shaped as opposed to pear-shaped) — but I don’t mind if he has a lot of “staunch in his paunch” and in profile looks like he’s pregnant. So while I may be picky in one area, I’m far from picky in others. For example, I have no problems with balding men, facial hair, or tattoos, etc. I’m just aware of what I’m attracted to.

    @Nicole 44
    Yes, ratings are relative or subjective. A 5 could be a 10 to a 2 or a 5 could be a 10 to a 10 who likes the positive traits of that 5 (like I’m ok with bald and staunchy as long as his shoulders are broad vs not ok with full head of hair but pear-shaped)

    I’m aware of where I fall on the universal scale, but probably less able to gauge to where I fall on a guy’s subjective scale. I think that’s what you’re driving at. I guess I’ve been lucky in that I’ve found myself in the datable range for the guys in the 5’9″ to 6’6″ range that I find attractive.

    @Henriette 45
    I second SE’s thanks. Very interesting article.

    @Dani 47
    Seven years younger shouldn’t be an issue as long as he doesn’t want children, particularly “naturally”. If he wants children and willing to adopt, then don’t sweat the age difference.

    @Chance 49
    Thanks. I don’t sweat the small stuff. I’m certainly not going to get too hyper about a stranger calling me bitchy or otherwise insults me on a website.

    I think you missed a fine point. The only time I care about a guy’s income is if I’m neutral to negative about his looks. If he looks great at first glance, he could be unemployed for all I care, but then he does have to show intelligence in his profile. Basically, decent-to-great-looking, no income listed doesn’t matter in the least. Less-than-decent looking, he’s got to make more than I do to be considered attractive to me. But that’s me.

    As Jadeite noted, income IS an equalizer for lack of looks. So if you’re (generic you) less-than-average on the looks scale, having good income listed won’t hurt you. Sure, you may get the gold-diggers. As long as you’re a smart man who doesn’t easily get sucked in by a gold-digger’s wiles, you’ll be fine listing your income. You just have to do a better job filtering. Good problem to have, right?

    @Tom10
    I’m so glad you commented, so that I wouldn’t feel silly commenting to you without you being around to read it. I think you ought to try it. You’ll probably not have to do any work meeting women online. They’ll flock to and message you. From two men whom I’ve chatted with/dated, I’ve learned that women can be QUITE aggressive online. Some women who find you attractive won’t need you to even buy them drinks first. But be prepared that they may not look like their pictures, particularly the older ones. Good luck, though it feels like I’m inviting the fox into the henhouse. Instead of hunting, you’ll be filtering. I’m sure that will be an interesting, calendar-filling, and physically demanding experience for you. I’m sure you will rise to that challenge. haha

  3. 63
    Sparkling Emerald

    Karmic #61 – Height is to women probably what boob size is to men. We don’t normally chastise men for preferring C-cups over A-cups. So while not PC, I think that my preference for height doesn’t need defending. ..
    I really didn’t understand all the venom directed at women for stating that they were not attracted to men below a certain height.  Someone pointed out that men are attracted to boob size, and someone said, well a woman can change that, a man can’t change his height.  So now, we are supposed to get surgical alterations to please a certain sub-set of men ?  (while eliminating men who like ‘em small, and yes, there are men who like small boobs)  People are attracted to what they are attracted to, I don’t understand the venom coming from anyone over someone else’s preferences.  As for me, I am attracted to many different looks, don’t mind bald, a little bit of a paunch, I actually LOVE gray hair,  couldn’t care less about height (I’m slightly shorter than average) and don’t even look at income.  My big deal-breakers are smoking and drug use.  And my hair dresser acted like I was being very unreasonable to not want to date a pot smoker.  And another friend thought I was unreasonable to not want a cigarette smoker.  Go figure.  At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what other people think.  Who I am attracted to is not even a choice, and it certainly isn’t something that is up for a popular vote either.

  4. 64
    nikoletta

     I am a 37 year old woman, my boyfriend is 32, very good looking and good hearted.  When we started i thought it would only be for sex. It turned out to become a relationship. He finds me beautiful and he says he admires my personality.There are no rules in my opinion. It’s all about chemistry. An attractive person is an attractive person whatever his or her age is.  If you ask me i always looked for older attractive dynamic men but now i am in arelationship with a younger person. Please don’t read statistics. They only make you feel miserable.. Life is so unpredictable..

  5. 65
    Rose

    To me how healthy and active they are woulg be more important than age.
    So no heavy smokers, drinkers or physically inactive people. Do they take care of themselves? would be of more importance than chronological age.

  6. 66
    Chance

    @Sparkling Emerald #62
    “I really didn’t understand all the venom directed at women for stating that they were not attracted to men below a certain height.”
     
    Did you not catch the venom that The Redbreast caught for stating his preference for younger women?  It works both ways.  I do agree with you, however.  People get way too wrapped up in others’ preferences.  At the end of the day, it’s all due to insecurity.  People are offended by what they fear is true (e.g., women being attracted to taller men, men being attracted to younger women).
     
    @Julia #26
    “And then I read comments and think to myself “That is exactly what I want to avoid.” Indeed the contributions of the men here are welcome.”
    Excellent point.  I think the same thing when reading some of the women’s comments on this blog.  The bitterness and anger that some of them have towards men because things haven’t turned out the way they would have liked in the dating realm is unfortunate.  If I met a woman like that in real life, I’d run for the hills.

  7. 67
    Julia

    The comments about being nurse maids and widows early leave me scratching my head. I’m not sure if everyone realizes that people die at all sorts of ages. Even if you marry someone 10 years older than you, it doesn’t guarantee that you will be spending the last 25 years of your life caring for and mourning a spouse. You could die first, they could go quick. My boyfriend’s mother had breast cancer for 7 years when he was a child and passed away before the age of 40.
     
    When we take vows and commit to someone for the rest of their life, we are signing up for whatever life throws our way. If you are uncomfortable or unwilling to deal with a sick or dying spouse, maybe you should question if marriage is really for you. My parents have  been married for 35 years and my father has been ill for the past 2 years. If it weren’t for my mother’s love and care, I don’t think he would still be alive. I really believe love and partnership can make us live longer and happier lives but if you are scared of the idea of taking care of someone one day, maybe its not for you.

  8. 68
    Sparkling Emerald

    Chance @ 65 “Did you not catch the venom that The Redbreast caught for stating his preference for younger women?  It works both ways. “
    Don’t particularly remember, I was making a specific comment to KE about the height thing, I never intended to catalogue all the venomous remarks.  I can believe that RB caught a lot of flak about his preference, for younger women. I was given grief in my younger days for my preference for older men.   I’ve always had a thing for silver foxes, and when I was 29 dating a 42 year old, I caught so much crap about it.  His name was Bill, but my co-worker friends called him “Over the Hill Bill”.  Except my supervisor who was in her early 40’s, she thought he was a dreamboat & she encouraged the relationship.  He was far from over the hill, he was very attractive and in good shape and very active.  I defended the relationship, told everyone to STFU about it, then he broke my heart :(  Oh well !
     

  9. 70
    Brett Vaughan

    Interestingly enough, it’s not always the actual age, but how you present yourself, how you carry yourself, and how you behave.  Looks matter because it shows an interest in yourself, and nobody else has any business getting entangled with someone with no interest in themselves to start with. Older women are perfectly able to look much younger, and younger women the opposite… some look like they’ve had a rough life early.  It all depends on how well you take care of yourself.   Excellent post for statistical sake alone.

  10. 71
    Sparkling Emerald

    Julia 66 – The comments about being nurse maids and widows early leave me scratching my head.

    I can understand your head scratching moment.  For me, it is still baggage from my marriage.  I took the vows, I took them seriously, ALL of them.  My ex had a HUGE problem with other people’s illness.  (not sure if it had something to do with his mom being a nurse, who was rather indifferent to her own children when they were ill) The ex treated other people’s illness as a weakness not to be tolerated.  When our son had whooping cough he would SCREAM at him and tell him that he could control the coughing.  He told him he got the cough because he doesn’t wash his hands properly– not true.  (whooping cough vaccines wears off after 10 years, I did not know this and a booster was never recommended).  When I had a long illness he showed me no sympathy and screamed at me because HE had to clean the bathroom and cook.  When my son & I both had meningitus, he had a hissy fit because HE had to go pick up our son from the hospital because I was in to much writhing pain recovering on the couch from my own meningitus.  Whenever my ex or my son got ill, I turned into Florence Nightingale, I nurtured them, made home made chicken soup (yes, I really do that) take them to the doctors, and showed compassion.  He always expressed gratitude for how I treated him when he was ill, but it just wasn’t in him to return the favor. 
    In my second job working retail, I noticed ALOT of elderly women in wheelchairs, or with walkers and on oxygen etc. and the people who were with them in the role of care takers were ALWAYS women.  Looked to be a daughter, sister, or just another caring female.  I started observing in the world, and I saw sick men being cared for my WOMEN, I saw sick women being cared for by WOMEN, and I saw seriously disabled children being cared for by WOMEN.  I remember being at a concert and seeing a young man tenderly caring for an elderly man, and he was being so tender and kind to him, and it really stuck out in my mind, because it was the ONLY time I had ever seen a male caretaker. I just wanted to run over and give that young man a big hug and say “Bless you, bless you, bless you”
    So I have decided that I do NOT want to play nursemaid to someone who  would be unlikely to do that for me if the situation were reversed.  I have also decided that if I acquire any serious illness issues, I’m dropping out of the game of love.  I don’t want to play nursemaid to someone for whom I would never know if they would do that for me, and I don’t ever want to be bedridden, in pain, and being betrayed by someone who I put my love and trust in. 
    Also, I witnessed my own mother being verbally abused over being ill by my dad, because he was extremely angry over her being disabled due to a stroke.  (yet here I am caring for him in his old age)
    I would have pushed my second hubby around in a wheel chair and cared for him the rest of my life if I was called to do so.  I took a vow to do so, and I took it seriously. 
    This is the huge reason why I will never marry again.  I don’t want to make a promise I couldn’t keep.  I don’t want to be betrayed again by that broken promise.  When my son and I were coming back from attending to my dad, he looked at me and said “Don’t worry Mom, I’ll take care of you when you are old”.  I love my son, and I think he believes he will, but I’ll believe it when I see it .  But honestly, I hope I don’t.  I hope I have a quick death eventually.  I think old age is highly over rated, and I don’t really want to experience it, unless I maintain my good health.
    I realize I am letting my past rule my future, but it is visceral, when I meet a man who seems to be shopping for a nursemaid,(or just appears to need one soon) I run for the hills. 
    To all the men reading this, if you are the nurturing type toward your loved ones when they are ill, then bless all of you.  From what I have seen and experienced tho’, I believe you are the rare exception.  As for me, the game of love is a game I’m only going to play when I and my potential love interest are strong and healthy. 

  11. 72
    Joe

    @ Karmic Equation #31:
     
    Maybe the guy was a security guard at a hospital! :D

  12. 73
    Speed

    @ #66 Julia
     
    Just want to thank you for your great summary of what marriage/commitment is all about. And God bless your great mother! 

  13. 74
    Aisling

    @ Julia # 66.  Your points are well taken. However, I assume your parents had good years together, as mine did. I think the point some of us are making is that we wouldn’t mind taking care of someone if we, too, had good years with them prior.
    Sure, anything can happen to anyone any time.  I work in oncology, and I see this every day.
    I am 52, and thankfully healthy.  That I don’t  want to take someone on who is on disability or in poor health doesn’t necessarily  make me a poor candidate for marriage, although I suspect there are other aspects of my personality that make me so.

  14. 75
    Jadeite

    It’s hardly venomous to point out to a man the actual facts of the situation.  While I heartily welcome dating advice from men, my general experience is that there is usually a good reason men who have reached the age of 40 and never been married have never been married.  And it appears now, that there is even research to back up this opinion (someone posted a very informative link above from a study done 10 years ago – surely it’s still mostly relevant today).  This is another reason I prefer to date healthy men in their late 40’s to early 50’s.  Because in this capacity, I’m seen as the younger woman and treated as valuable.  Also, I generally prefer to date men with adult or soon to be adult children.  These same men aren’t very interested (if at all) in having more children and so my inability and non-desire to have children (let’s not confuse this with the ability to practice) is considered a plus in the equation.  Also, I am told often that women in their early – mid 40’s with no children and no desire to have them are relatively rare and apparently what a lot of men in their early 50’s are seeking.  So I’ve found my niche.  I was rather pointing out the flaws in a 40 something man seeking to rediscover his lost youth with a younger woman. What a man does with his precious time is his own business.  I just think after wasting so much of it, that people should be educated about their own decisions.

  15. 76
    Julia

    @Sparkling Emerald #70
    I just want to say that I am very sorry that you married a man who lacked empathy the way that your ex did and I think its responsible that you know what you can and can’t deal with and have made your decision.
     
    @Speed #72
    She is a very caring person, she is from a family of 6 children and cared for her father when he was dying when I was a child and more recently was the primary caretaker of her mother for the past decade until she passed. I feel like she’s been taking care of someone for most of her adult life. Strangely I don’t find her the easiest person to relate to and find myself always closer to my father.
     
    @Aisling #73

    Points well taken about not wanting to date someone who is already ill. I remember reading a comment in another blog I read several months ago, where a  43 year old man described the loss of his wife of 5 years. She developed cancer quickly after the birth of their child and he lost her within 18 months. That was my point altogether. Even if things are seemingly well, we might have to deal with a sick spouse or even their untimely loss well before we are ready. I think we need to go into marriage with our eyes open to this very real possibility. Its heartbreaking even thinking about it, I admit, my eyes just welled up as I wrote it. I am not letting that fear drive my determination in eventually marrying however.

  16. 77
    Jadeite

    Julia, that was beautifully written.  I agree with what you are saying about marriage and that people need to be committed in sickness or in health.  Getting cancer down the road or some other unforeseen disease is understandable.  B
     
    ut what Sparkling Emerald says I have also found to be true.  I had a serious life-threatening illness during my 2nd marriage and my husband (who coincidentally was studying to be a priest at the time) could barely deal with it.  I became an inconvenience to him reaching his goals.  As soon as radiation was done, even though I was requiring about 20 hours sleep a day and could barely swallow, I was expected to run back out and find a job so he could continue being a student.  A spouse who becomes ill down the road through no fault of their own should be shown love and compassion.  A spouse who is not taking care of themselves should be spoken to lovingly and supportively about why they should take care of themselves and how it’s part of their job as one half of the whole to keep their own half whole when possible.  That’s what married people sign on for. 
     
    However, in my mind, going into a relationship with someone who is an uncontrolled diabetic, doesn’t know how, when or how much medication to take, and doesn’t care to learn how to manage it properly, and who is not taking care of themselves would be inexcuseable for me.  You see, after the life threatening illness, I was diagnosed type 2 diabetic 2 years ago….BUT I am beating it.  I KNOW what it’s like to be sick and I am NOT going back to that.  I didn’t agree to medication but, instead, decided to use diet modification, exercise and weight loss.  I’ve lost 40 lbs, and am no longer technically considered diabetic (and  now have a  normal A1c  — but it’s because I work hard to keep it that way (and having seen the firsthand results of family members who didn’t do that, in itself, is great motivation).  During my internet dating period, I met several men who were also diabetic.  And they weren’t even considering losing weight or using eating modification (limiting carbs) in conjunction with medication, much less exercising.  Even though diabetic men have a higher incidence of ED (which you think would be a deterrent at all costs), most of them laughed it off as just an illness and I even had one guy “high five” me and say “Welcome to the club!” when he asked why I wasn’t eating rice at dinner and I told him I was diabetic (biggest turnoff ever!).  I can’t respect that and could never marry it – I’d rather be alone.  The problem with dating for women in their 40’s is that many of us (at least my single women friends) take great care of ourselves and support ourselves just fine.  Most of us have been married and divorced at least once.  Again, as stated above, there have been many discussions amongst us that men, in general, have very strange expectations and not only that, men generally aren’t in touch enough with their emotions or even their physical bodies to work out their angst and health like many women at least make the attempt to do.  These same men seem to still believe they are at the pinnacle of wellness, even when are close to having a heart attack.  It’s just terribly unrealistic to expect anyone to want to take care of you (for either gender) if you years down the road if are unwilling to do the basics to take care of yourself now.   And again, as Sparkling Emerald pointed out, women are the caretakers of just about everyone 90-95% of the time.  I have no problem dating men 10-15 years older than myself as long as they are healthy.  Fortunately, the cardiovascular system being what it is, there is a really awesome way to determine that in men pretty darn quickly, LOL. 

  17. 78
    Paula

    Karl T@41
    You write:
    For someone like Paula to see that in a guy’s profile and still get angry at him without even knowing or having talked to him- well that says a lot.  Why she would be angry at a guy she don’t even know (just read his profile) shows that she has a grudge or anger inside her.  I would never date a woman like that no matter what age I am, even if I didn’t want kids.
     
    Oh come on. Are people that tone deaf and literal on this page? I am not literally angry. It’s an annoyance. When I see a guy that limits himself, it makes me think he is the closed minded one. I am pretty laid back about things but there are all sorts of red flags that men do on their profiles. It’s not just women. I keep my dating profile light and simple and positive. How many guys list they are lonely? Seriously it’s a major turn off and I run when I see a man like that. I’m on OkCupid and I do read what guys write. I take the time to make sure I put out a positive image because that’s who I am. Instead of complaining about men, I just ignore ones I don’t like or don’t put any effort into their profile or are not emotionally available. Believe me, you can gather some sense of a person based on their responses to questions. I have standards and certainly one of them is being open minded. Even Evan has realized he was better going out with an older woman. 3 years isn’t really much anyways but I’ve met a few men that are so fussy, probably just like many single women. Usually these people never land a relationship because they are so picky. My last boyfriend was over 10 years but now I want someone close to my age because I want a family and my ex had a 10 year old son and he was on the fence about children, although he originally wanted a large family.  I’ve had to adjust what I am looking for in a man. People do need to open their hearts and minds and be more realistic and not live in some fantasy. People want someone better then them, richer, smarter, younger, prettier, etc but that applies to the person they desire too. They want someone better then them. At some point people wise up and choose an equal, a peer. Am I angry towards men who are 40 and want a woman 25-35? No, people like that probably will stay single for the rest of their life because they are unwilling to modify their choices. What if the right woman for them was 37? They just missed the opportunity because of 2 years. What’s 2 years? Seriously. Grow up and please don’t take everything so literally on this blog.  :)

  18. 79
    Karmic Equation

    @Joe 71

    That’s what I figured. There’s a few medical device companies around here and he could have been a security guard at those places too. lol

    @Chance & Jadeite

    I think that women feel it’s bad form for an out-of-shape 40 year old to think he can date a 25 yo. It’s not fear, but incredulity. Now if he were in shape, we women would just lament him following the wrong head, and if I extrapolate from my dates’ stories correctly, some of the older women just probably proposition the heck out of that good-looking 40 yo guy. So that good looking, decent-income 40 yo, probably would never have to visit a bar again. He’s going to have women coming at him in both directions, younger and older. But we’re really not talking about that dude, but rather the unfit jowly dude who thinks he looks young for his age.<rolls eyes>

    On the height side, I’ve had good looking men up to 6’6″ asking for dates. So being a shorty is not a deterrent for tall men to consider dating.

    @John and Frimmel

    Even though your original statements were somewhat- to very harsh, I have to admit there may been a nugget in there. As mentioned before, I’m not photogenic, and the original photos I had up were the ones I liked best although I still felt they were bad. I was pleasantly surprised that I had any interest. While there was some interest by men I found attractive, on the whole, they were from men I found unattractive.

    This weekend I posted some really good selfies. I have to say I looked amazing even to me and these pix made me look a lot better than I think I look IRL. Of course, I couldn’t wait to post them.lol. My inbox blew up. And NOW I’m getting the attention from that elusive 45-50 range of good looking men that I wasn’t getting with my previous photos. I’m still getting msgs from men below my league, but not as many. So they may feel I’m now out of reach for them. Which means, John, you may be right that my original photos were attracting men who felt they had a chance. They’re now filtering themselves out. The equilibrium that Chance mentioned is being set/reset.

    With my previous photos, I initiated a few msgs with good looking men that I felt were out of my league (no answer) and visited many other profiles without messaging them. Armed with the new photos, I revisited these same men and now a good number of them have initiated msgs with me. I’m no fool. With this result, I’m just visiting good-looking men’s profiles like mad and just waiting for them to visit me back and message me. It’s kind of a fun game of wait and see. I guess this is the online version of the hunter/prey dynamics. I visit their profiles to bait them (equivalent to being being dressed to kill and going to a bar). If they like what they see, they write back (equivalent to an approach).

    I just needed to learn how to play this game. Of course, it helps I’m just looking to date, and not “forever.” Takes all the pressure off.

  19. 80
    Paula

    Soul Sister@ 53
    I agree pretty much with your sentiments. yes men and women can deire all sorts of things and yes let them have their unreasonable desires. The bottom line as you state is that all that goes out the window with chemsitry. The only issue then we have to deal with is really thinking if this person is treating us properly and kindly. Evan has warned us about having amazing chemistry but a poor relationship. We  need a spark and hopefully can find someone who is compatible. Just think people need to realize if you limit the age you wat, you may be shrinking your possibilites to find someone with that elusive spark that we all want.
    Jadeite@ 37

    Thanks for defending me against Redbreast. Yes Redbreast, women can still have babies in their 40s and yes men’s sperm also plays a role in a healthy fetus. I have a friend who is 44 and having one. She has more energy then me. She has a 19 year old already. It wasn’t easy but it’s not impossible.  We are after all wanting to find someone we can share the rest of our lives with. Getting along with them should be more important then just the fact they are younger then you. Age should not be the sole criteria we look for in a lifemate. It’s just one factor. Money is the major deal breaker and that is probably more important how they manage money.
    I think my other point I wanted to make was that yes people can want what they want. I have a friend that wants a man who is 6 feet. She’s in a wheelchair and is probably only 5″1 so not very tall. And being in her wheelchair makes her more shorter because she sits on it. I think for her, height should not be something you look for. I just think people need to think about the consequences of their actions and not blindly blind themselves to someone because they are 2-3 years older then what they imagined. Are people just using age as an excuse when really lack of chemistry is more the issue?

  20. 81
    John

    Karmic Equation @79
    Well I am glad that you are getting the attention from the men in the age range you desire. It is amazing how changing pictures can change the game dramatically. Obviously if you went from very little attention in your age range to a whole bunch of incoming messages, then your new photos must look awesome. That’s the part about online dating that takes an adjustment- the power of the picture.
    My story to that lesson is that initially I didn’t put any topless photos of myself even though I am in great shape. Most women and every dating advice columnist said not to do that.  You could tell I worked out from the pics I had up there, but nothing that would make anyone send me “you’re hot” comments. When I wasn’t hearing back from the ladies I thought I could attract, I added a topless of me on a cruise and another of me topless standing in front of a waterfall. I still kept the original ones up too.
     
    That changed the game for me big time. All of a sudden the women were messaging me with the “you’re hot” messages and my reply rate to my messages increased greatly. It just goes to show you that online dating is a beauty contest as far as initial interest is concerned. Your new photos prove that point to you and my topless pics  proved it to me. Its all about the photos in online dating most of the time.
     
    But now you have proved a theory that I was wondering about. I heard it said that if a woman views your profile, its a subtle way of her showing interest. I never paid much attention to that but you are saying that’s exactly what you do. Next time I activate my profile, I will have to use the “who visited me” as my main focus since you proved to me that is proof that there is at least some initial attraction on the girl’s part by viewing.

  21. 82
    Karmic Equation

    @John
    You’re gonna have to share your SN when you reactivate. I’ll give you an objective assessment. lol
     
    Seriously though. Topless pics in a bathroom mirror are totally CHEESY. However, topless photos where you can be topless, like the beach or a cruise are perfectly acceptable IMO. But do NOT EVER post pics of yourself lying in bed. That is just wrong. Sure men love pics of women laying in bed, but the opposite is totally DESPERATE. Of course, there is the Tom Brady rule in effect (reference to the SNL skit).
     
    Anyway, yes. You should definitely use the “Who visited me”. It does show interest. Equivalent to a held eye contact at a bar, imo.

  22. 83
    Peter

    First, a summary of some data and then some personal experience.
    The largest study that provides data on this is “Age Difference in Marriage and Divorce” a census report by the UK Office of National Statistics looking at all UK marriages in 1982, 1992 and 2002.  In summary:
    The average age difference was 2 years with the man being older but this was eroding over time.  In 1982, the overwhelming majority of marriages were in this group.  By 2002, it was slightly less pronounced and it looked like shotgun weddings no longer happened.
    At first marriage, women married younger men and older men in about equal numbers out to the 20 year age difference which was the cut off point.  There was no support for the view that men won’t accept older women for first marriages.
    With one exception, the older the women relative to the man the higher the divorce rate.  The most stable marriages were those where the man was 20 years older than the woman, by a factor of about two. (Bear in mind that there are equal numbers of both age differences).  The exception was the “normal” two year age difference.  The divorce rate for this group was 6 times its implied rate on the trend line, so 3x the rate for a 20 year older women and 12x the rate for a 20 year older man.  (This is seen in other extreme marriages as well – in the US, foreign brides entering on fiance visas have half the 5 year divorce rate of American women.  Green cards arrive after 3 years so the green card divorce is not backed up by data).  Opinion – “Normal” marriages are probably driven by (the woman’s) passion not thought so there is less serious thinking.
    In second marriages, there was a strong trend for men to marry women 10 years younger.  Women did not change their pattern.  In 1982, few women remarried after 40.  In 2002, the cliff was 50.  The men’s pattern was 50 to 60.  The older the man, the bigger the age difference.  (Opinion: Life is balanced, Women under 30 have a huge opportunity relative to men).
    This is about marriage not sex. Young men who can’t find a woman their own age will consider an older woman for sex.
    In the UK, (and most countries), women live longer than men.  So the women will usually be aring for the man.  The average unhealthy life expectancy in the 3 years.  (In Russia it is 18 months and in the US which has a rotten health care system- measured by results it is 2 years the last time I looked). Unhealthy life expectancy is about the quality of hospitals and treatments – longer means more effective medicine.  If you are both in your eighties, this is going to be tough for the woman who is more likely to be frail with osteoarthritis.  If the woman is still a healthy, active, sixty something with grown up children, things will be a lot easier all round.
    My estranged wife (divorce now in court) was 5 years older than me when we married at 30/35.  Age difference never entered our relationship.  Age itself may have stopped her inclination to be a world travelling hippy and have children but not age difference.
    I am 61.  My mistress, who turned up 21 years after my wife and I became estranged is 37.  Age difference is irrelevant in our relationship. However, her age, my age and my vasectomy (which was never required 26 years ago, although asked for) may be factors in having a child.  My male relatives all lived into their mid 80’s in good physical and mental shape so it is not impossible to do the job of fatherhood again.  My mistress has a 14 year old son by her previous marriage so not having another child will not be a disaster.  She is a tall, thin but shapely, natural blue eyed blond, with a decent bust, fabulous cooking skills, a sense for fashion only Russians possess and a tendency to look for good in a situation.  I met her as my landlady.  After 5 years we are not as starry eyed as we were.
    Then there’s her little half sister for those who don’t believe young women lust after older men.  Little sister is 28 and smoking hot.  However, what big sister wants she wants as well which is a pain to deal with, especially as she is the cleverer of the two and thus a bit more sexually (but not matrimonionally attractive)..  She has no children but deserves 3, which is beyond my most optimistic projections, not because of sperm quality, which drops but fractionally compared to a woman’s eggs but because of the challenges of facing down a 16 year old boy in my early 80’s.  She totally disagrees.  She is also inclined towards bouts of (attention seeking?) depression and self harm directed towards getting my time devoted to her.  I don’t think men chasing neurotic women because they are hot is as common as women lusting after serial killers.
    Neither wants to leave Russia.  Neither speaks English.  Big sister is building a (small) property empire and is financially OK all by herself. Her son met his Dad for the first time two weeks ago at my insistence. There had been no contacts for 13.5 years. (The father said that he has wanted contact but she had never spoken to him and he was afraid of making the first move.  Also found out that they are not legally divorced, which is common in Russia because if a divorced man pays for the child, he can claim custody).  The men usually don’t want to divorce so it is up to the woman who usually prefers control to divorce.
    When I was on the internet, I never lied about a detail.  It starts things on the wrong foot.  Over 70% of women lie about weight, age and avoid questions about children (I actually want some children around.  I want a the challenge of a family life with all its horrors). I am 177  cm (5 foot nine and three quarters which was 5’10” on my profile), 100 kg and my income is variable as I own my own business in Russia and sometimes suffer losses.  5 years ago, I was looking for women in their 40’s and early 50’s.  The vast majority of them were hugely insecure about themselves and looking for validation from sexually attractive men, not relationships despite completely letting themselves go – 10 year old pictures etc..  I think that every woman on the planet from 25 to 55 is looking for a never married (but psychologically sound), tall, rich, clever, self made (but with lots of time for her, 40 year old or really any 40 year old with above average height and income (Girls, at one standard deviation away from average, which is required to have a meaningful difference, that’s 1 man in 64).  Why did I try so hard to keep married when most of that was me?
    Key points
    Age sometimes matters where reproduction is concerned but my experience says age difference means nothing.  The data says older man gives more stability.
    Extreme marriages, age, culture, in general survive better (although there is UK evidence about social class and variations on protestant religion that says differently).  Perhaps people think harder about them. There is one each of a Muslim and a Hindu cross cultural marriage in my family and both couples seem to work hard at things.  Marriage is work not bliss.  Extreme couples realize this.

  23. 84
    Karl T

    Paula #78,
    I am not the only one who wondered why it upset you so much when 40 year old guys wanted a girl 25-35.  Several others commenters questioned it too.  And you did NOT say it was just an annoyance, you said you really can’t stand it.  That is FAR greater than a little annoyance.  Go back and reread your own posts and don’t get upset at others who simply are reacting to what you wrote.  Nice way to try and duck out of it.  You’re responsible for what you write.
    Second 2 years (37 vs. 35) is a HUGE difference if I want a woman to have kids with.  35 to me is already stretching it a bit so 2 years beyond that is huge!!
    I’m going to date her for 2 years and then maybe have kids a year or 2 later…that puts a 35 year old at 39 and puts a 37 year old at a danger age of 41.  It is enormously dangerous for women in their 40’s to have kids.  Don’t even try to deny that.  The women who argue against this point are fooling themselves.  Ask your doctor next time you have a visit.  Then you can say Karl T was right.
    I laugh at the women who post that a 39 year old guy like me will never get a girl who is 25 to 35.   Watch me, I have no problems doing so!!  I’m 39 and workout 5 days a week and have a muscular body and am in good shape with a great job.  Why are all the women on here acting like I am 55 or something…..jealousy???

    1. 84.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Karl T,

      a) Watch your tone, in general. The more that my intern and I have to delete your posts for insulting women, the less likely you will be allowed to stay here.
      b) From an upcoming blog post: ““With sex at least twice a week, 82 percent of 35-to-39-year-old women conceive within a year, compared with 86 percent of 27-to-34-year-olds.”

      In other words, 37 vs. 35 is not actually huge at all. Sorry that the facts are getting in the way of your feelings, but, well, that’s my job.

      c) It’s not “enormously dangerous” for women in their 40’s to have kids. My wife had TWO kids naturally after the age of 40. But fertility DOES drop significantly around 40, so women need to be conscious of that. Your case has merit, but it’s wildly overstated.

      d) As for whether a 39-year-old guy can get a 25-35-year-old? Depends. My thoughts are brief: First of all, I can’t relate to a woman under 30. I don’t know how you can. For the most part, they have no life experience or wisdom and aren’t better partners. Next, if you’re 25-29, 40 sounds OLD. Hell, even if you’re in your 30’s, 40 sounds old. Whether you like it or not, that’s the way WOMEN feel. Go on Match, pay attention to THEIR criteria and you’ll see for yourself. But there is a lid for every pot and I’m sure you can pull yourself a younger women.

      If I were you, I’d get on it, because just like you say a woman’s expiration date is in her late 30’s for you, at some point in the next few years, the majority of young women you want are going to find it creepy that you’re hitting on them.

  24. 85
    Lia

    Sparkling Emerald # 
     
    So sorry to read about how you were treated by your ex.  I can understand your aversion to marriage under those circumstances.  I don’t think that at our age marriage is necessary or even preferable, but I do try to remember that my past does not determine my future.  I can learn how to make different choices.  I can learn to be more discerning and wiser.  
     
    You are one of my favorite posters on this blog.  Your heart is so kind, your mind sharp.  You deserve to be loved and cared for.  You deserve to have a man who has your back.  I do believe that there are men out there who are capable of loving and giving and men who know what it means to stand strong when they are needed.  I believe that in spite of my history, because having hope gives me the courage to reach for my dreams.
     
    Jadeite # 77
     
    I applaud you for taking the steps nescessary to regain your health.  I agree with you about dating someone who takes care of themselves.  I have no problem dating older men in fact if they are healthy I prefer older men, but if they are not taking care of themselves I would have no interest in hanging around.  For the about three years I didn’t care about my health and body and I am now undoing the damage done.  I have lost more than half the weight I want to and I am exercising again and feeling fabulous.  I don’t need to have a man that is a ripped gym rat but being healthy and active is a must.  Because I expect that of anyone I would want to date, I expect it of myself.  So before I put myself back out there I am going to get my body back to where it was.
     
    @ John # 81
     
    I agree with KE 100%.  Topless pics in the bathroom mirror is such a turn off.  Topless pics on the beach or cruise is totally acceptable.  And I do the same thing Karmic does when I am on line.  I look at the profiles of the men I am interested in in hopes that they will look back and like what they see.  If they don’t write to me I assume they don’t like me and I move on.

  25. 86
    SAL9000

    Hmmm. Interesting how any sort of age-related dating discussion; here or elsewhere; degrades to some extent to women raging against “old” men preferring to date only younger women. How could people be so uppity about what others do with their personal lives??? (That’s rhetorical, BTW.)

  26. 87
    SAL9000

    Hmmm. It continues. I’m a never-married 40-year-old guy and date ~28-~36, with the sweet spot being 30-33. I have dated many MANY in both age ranges. You older guys don’t let this stuff get you down, but also bear in mind you have to work at it. If you’ve kept yourself together physically, have a good career and finances, and otherwise have a good full life, at 40, your market value is still on the upswing. As to match.com? Meh, lots of women aged late 20s to mid 30s have a max age ceiling of early 40s. In my bit-more-than-anecdotal experience this “creepy” mentality has never been a problem (though it is by its nature self limiting; I’ll never hear, nor would want to hear, from those women who think it “creepy” that I’m talking or emailing them – IMO a ridiculous POV but w/e – there’s all kinds out there).

  27. 88
    Sparkling Emerald

    Lia #85 –  Thank you for your kind words !  I have not given up on love in general, but I am not up for a third MARRIAGE.  (unless I want to be like that Chris Farley character, from SNL and be THRICE divorced and live in a van by the river  . . .) Like you, I don’t think it is necessary at our age, in fact, I think I’m too old for that crap.  My apologies to all the younger girls here looking for advice on how to find a husband.  I think marriage is fine for those in the child bearing years, in fact, I highly recommend marriage for anyone contemplating parenthood.  I think kids are better off if the parents are married, even if the parents don’t stay married for the duration.  That’s just my opinion.  I know other people think & feel differently, and I am aware that many women CHOOSE single motherhood.  Lia, you seem like the kind of girl I would enjoy going out with for a girls night out !  Thanks again for you kind response.
     

  28. 89
    Peter

    @SAL9000  I’ve talked about an extremely large age gap, now and at other times here.  No one has raged against me.  I suppose there is a difference in judgmental wrath against those who assume an entitlement and stumbling into the situation.

  29. 90
    David T

    Evan said: First of all, I can’t relate to a woman under 30. I don’t know how you can. For the most part, they have no life experience or wisdom and aren’t better partners. 


    I 100% agree with Evan on this.  I have met a few extraordinary relatively young women (lower 30’s; I am 46) who have been through a lot and accomplished much during their young lives, to the point I respect them and would consider them dating prospects. Even in the case of two I felt some attraction to, there were some places where their youth showed to their detriment in my eyes.

    Both of them had some level of discomfort/awkwardness in how they relate to men in relationships that gave me pause.  I did date one for two months and we were a poor match for other reasons than that, but I suspect that also contributed to my breaking it off with her.

    My real point is that there are precious few young ‘uns like that that are more than be a tad amusing to talk to and flirt with. I doubt I would ever find one I could partner with. Maybe when I am 60 and they are in their mid 40’s…;)

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