My Fiancé Has Money and Treats Me Well, But He’s Soooo Cheap! What Should I Do?

My Fiance Has Money and Treats Me Well, But He's Sooo Cheap, What Should I Do?
Evan, what should I do?

I am engaged to a guy who I have been dating for 4.5 years. I love him but I have so much anger and resentment towards him. He is a good person and we have a great time together and I enjoy his company/companionship. He always is happy to see me and be with me. We have a lot in common, but I feel we have some major core differences. He is extremely selfish. He is wealthy and I think this has affected his outlook on money. I am very generous with a big heart, but I find that I am always disappointed. I don’t expect to be spoiled by someone, but he spends a lot of money on his (our) house, cars, gambling when he can, but if I need $200 to go to the store, he makes me feel awkward and here we are supposed to be getting married in December. All our finances are separate, I would be fine even with a pre-nup which I know is coming, but I am not fine with having a husband who puts himself that far above me because of his money. I do expect my husband to help with car payments, medical insurance, basic stuff, I am not even talking about shopping and material things, and this is a guy who is a multi-millionaire, and I made $100k up until last year because of the economy and now until I do something else, am only making about 45k. I am worried about marrying someone who would watch me struggle and not offer to help or was that spoiled that he doesn’t have the “right” consideration for me. HELP!

Lara

You know what they say about rich guys, right? The reason they’re rich is because they don’t spend any of their money

Dear Lara,

You know what they say about rich guys, right? The reason they’re rich is because they don’t spend any of their money! Ha! I kill me.

So first of all, let’s get one thing out of the way first: he’s definitely selfish. There are plenty of people who have issues around money – including yours truly – but your multi-millionaire takes the very expensive wedding cake.

As I’ve said before, many women don’t appreciate the difference between being cheap and being poor. If he makes less than $50,000, pretty much ANYTHING he does for you is generous. However, your guy isn’t poor. He’s rich, and yet you don’t feel he is generous of spirit. That really sucks when you’re facing a lifetime together.

But if you’ve been seeing him for 4 ½ years, I suspect you knew about this trait all along, but dealt with it as just one compromise you had to make in the relationship. It didn’t suddenly surface out of the blue. “He USED to throw me $10,000 birthday parties, but now he only has the Pizza Hut staff put a candle in my calzone!”

I’m not going to defend his penurious ways, and I’m not going to suggest that you don’t have the right to be frustrated. I am, however, going to try to look at the other side – something that you may not have done yet.

So let’s recap: you love him, he’s a good person, he’s super-wealthy, you have a lot in common, you have a great time together, he’s happy to be with you, and you’re engaged to be married in December. Sounds like a promising start, no?

But there’s this one thing – this big thing – you don’t get out of him. It’s a definite character flaw: no generosity. Yet he probably pays for the bulk of the house, car payments, medical payments, vacations, etc. He’ll buy you things and provide a nice life. The only thing he doesn’t want to pay for is you, spending the money that he earned. And since you’re now making less, you expect him to make up the difference.

At least that’s HIS perspective.

I think two things: he’s genuinely cheap, and he genuinely loves you.

Your perspective is that it’s not his money, it’s your money – together. And even though you have everything you want in your life, you can’t get over the fact that he’s so stingy that he won’t let you spend what he considers “his” money. In your mind, it’s not about the money, it’s about the principle! I hear you, and I’m sure a number of readers do, too.

The real sticking point is that his take on “his money vs. your money” is not changing any time soon. It’s deeply ingrained in him. Which gives you two choices: leave him because you feel like you can’t spend your life with a rich man who is cheap, or stick around and appreciate that you have a super life, filled with love, companionship, fun, and tons of material possessions – but your husband is simply a skinflint.

Life is about tradeoffs, y’know?

I also think you may be equating his lack of generosity with a lack of love. He can provide for you in 100 different ways, but because he’s hesitant to give you $200 to go to the store, he doesn’t truly love you. Do you believe that? I don’t. I think two things: he’s genuinely cheap, and he genuinely loves you. If he didn’t love you, he wouldn’t be marrying you. In his mind, he just doesn’t want his wealth to be taken for granted.

Just the other day I was talking with a semi-successful guy – not a millionaire – who took care of his girlfriend when she was unemployed and couldn’t afford to pay rent. The problem arose when, one year later, she STILL didn’t want to pay rent because “he could afford it”.  Ironically, the same way that she feels that “it’s not about money, it’s about principle”, so does he. You think he should pay for you because he can. He doesn’t want to pay for you because you assume he’s supposed to.

Another thing: your boyfriend may be cheap, but I’d have to guess he’s better than the rich guys who equate money with love. Their theory is: “If I buy you a Jaguar, maybe you won’t notice how emotionally distant and abusive I am!”  These type of wealthy men  make the worst husbands because they think that they can buy your affection and don’t have to actually, y’know, listen to you.

All of this begs the unfortunate and delicate question: is it possible that you take your boyfriend’s money for granted? Maybe just a little? After all, you may have taken a pay cut, but you probably still live in a big house with a nice car and have everything you need. So while I’m not going to defend your fiancées behavior – cheap is not cool – I’d have to ask you one really tough question:

Would you be marrying him if HE made $45,000?

And, if not, are you also equating love with money?

It’s not that I’m not sympathetic to your plight, Lara, but it’s my responsibility to point out the side of things that you may not have already considered. Please let me know what you choose to do.

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Comments:

  1. 121
    Johanna

    Boy this conversation rang alot of bells for me.  As with all partnerships, the money discussion has to take place before a final commitment is made so everyone is on the same page right?  However, let me share this with you.  I (age 65) recently married a 77 year old man who owns his own home, has a good amount of money in the bank and a very good retirement income.  He has been retired for over 40 years due an employment injury.  I have worked very hard for the last 29 years since my divorce maintaining a good lifestyle that is not extravagant on any level.  We had many money discussions because i knew this could be a hot potato as he constantly complains about money all the time.  Its very draining. He refused to leave his home and create a joint home together and insisted that I move into his home he shared with his deceased wife.  I spent over two years cleaning out his house, painting walls, etc. AND working to support myself while living in a rental home. His house is paid for and the taxes are low, so I could see the rationale in this thinking.  However, I was told I could change the house so it felt like MY home too, not just his.  I was also told that I could finally relax and not work as he would take care of everything and everything would be held jointly. WRONG!  I feel I was duped because that is not the case.  I am working harder than I ever have and probably will not be able to retire.  He does not help with any of my bills at all even though he has five times the amount of income I have. The house is in his name although I was told it would be OUR home.  I am not on any bank accounts, I have no ATM and no access to any of his money even though I was told I did not have to work.  I asked him recently if he would give me $100 a month towards my car payment and was told no.  I feel like i was played just so he could have a companion at an advanced age.  Although he told me clearly he wanted to travel and have fun and do things he never did before, now he refuses to do anything and is a couch potato.  His favorite saying is ‘I can’t afford it’ which is not true.  He is a financial control freak and although he says he would like to see me slow down, does not offer to help.  I feel embarrassed if I have to ask for a small amount of money.  Bottom line, he lied to get me to marry him, I have spent in excess of $20,000 on decorating this house so I can feel I live here too and unless he dies first, I have no financial security at all.  I feel stuck, lied to and resentful.  He definitely has control issues around money and at age 77 I doubt this will ever change.  I have always been a very active person with a young attitude but this situation is making me ill….literally!  I feel like I am becoming an old lady which is so beyond the truth of who I really am.  I won’t divorce him because everything I had is invested in this house and thank God every night I have my own little bedroom as he has the master bedroom which he refused to share for sleep reasons.  I feel like an idiot writing this…..so what would YOU do!!!???

  2. 122
    Clare

    Johanna,

    Run.

    I’m sorry, I know that sounds difficult and extreme, but I have some experience with men like this.

    Run, and do everything you can to let this relationship go and salvage what you can financially. Someone this mean and controlling will have your self-esteem in the toilet in no time.

    I’m sorry if this is not easy advice, but I call it as I see it.

    *Strength and support to you*

  3. 123
    Speed

    @Johanna (161)
    I’m sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds as if you are implicitly waiting for your husband to pass away for financial security but please think twice about that. He might live to 110 or something, becoming increasingly reliant on you as he ages (yet still withholding his money).  I’m not a lawyer but I imagine you have legal options open to you. I would suggest you speak with one, maybe at a free legal clinic, if one is available in your town. In any event, I don’t think you want to continue your life as it is so you need to be courageous and explore your options. Good luck to you.

  4. 124
    Terry

    Dear OP,

    If you are happy being 2nd because you enjoy the benefits of material things and don’t have to worry about paying bills for the rest of your life, which is a reasonable trade-off, then stay. Otherwise, RUN.

    There’s a lot of assumptions here, but I assume that you are a hard working woman who takes care of him and spends money frugally.

    There’s no respect here. He spends so much on his toys, yet when it comes to spending a little on you, he makes you feel uncomfortable. When you get married, you SHARE you lives together, meaning you share everything. How can one person live a different lifestyle in a marriage than the other? Why get married in the first place? Why not just date and be common-law forever? That way you don’t have to worry about being equal (sarcasm here).

    Relationships are not build on spreadsheets and numbers. There are always tradeoffs to everything. You need to ask yourself what each of you bring to the table and see if you think that’s a good tradeoff and a good deal for you. You need to determine your needs and if they are not being meet, you need to decide if it’s worth the risk to look elsewhere. Be strong and have the strength to make the right decisions. It’s tough.

    Let me tell you my experience and share my outlook. I was dating a rich guy and just by faith I’m currently with another rich one. I’m currently living with this one. I moved into his house and he pays for all the bills. When we go out, he pays for everything. He pays for all vacations. I only pay for my own personal expenses like my gas, my cell bill, my car maintenance and general household groceries. When we do major grocery shopping together, he pays. Essentially he pays for almost everything. I don’t make much as I used to, but I work full time just like he does. All inside household duties are mine and I make sure the household runs smoothly. He takes care of the outside, and I help 75% of the time. That’s because I’m better at the inside duties and he’s better at the outside and he likes my company while working.

    Most people think I’m spoiled, but I disagree. I work more than he does.  Why should I devalued myself because I bring in a lower income? If I were to split the money 50-50 or even proportionally, I would become poor with the lifestyle we have. How fair is that? I prefer a lesser luxurious lifestyle and be happy, then to be poor by living a lifestyle I cannot afford or need. It’s a bonus to have the up-scaled things, but it doesn’t make a successful relationship or does it make me any happier.

    When we get married, we will have a pre-up where he keeps all this assets before the marriage. Whatever we accumulate together, we use together.

    Imagine, I suddenly win the lottery and he looses his job. Now I’m going to start buying my expensive cars and leave him with nothing because he has savings he can dig into? I’m going to go on super nice vacations he now cannot afford? Of course not!

    I’m just old fashioned. I care, love, give and do whatever I can for him as best as I can and I expect the same thing from him. Whether he pays more or not, just depends on the current circumstance. He just happens to be richer than me so he pays more. If I was richer, I would pay more. When we get married, we are both rich. You will never win if you are in competition with him and his assets. You need to work together as a team and be valued the same.

    It seems to me that you are not valued the same and that there’s no sharing. “What’s yours is yours and what’s mine is mine. but I will help you with the bills because I pity you. However, I’m not going to pay for anything more. You don’t get anything luxurious like me because I devalue your work, essentially you, since it brings in much less than me.” Do you want this type of attitude in a marriage?

    I hope this helps and good luck! Talk to him about your point to view and try to work things together before getting married. Be strong and have the strength to make the best decisions for yourself.

  5. 125
    kay

    Don’t sign a prenupt or you may end up trapped in a bad marriage because you are dependent on him financially. If he insists on a prenupt….run, don’t walk away from him.

  6. 126
    SugarNspice

    Dear Lara,
    I would not listen to all those people that tell you you are expecting too much, they are just jealous. There is nothing wrong with expecting the person you are about to marry to spend money on you. Regardless of what time we are living in. If someone truly loves you and they can afford to help you out there is absolutely no excuse for them. If you feel that they are cheap and stingy after 4 years, it would only get worse after you 2 are married. Either tell him what bothers you now, and he doesn’t try to make you feel better about the situation, RUN FOR THE HILLS !

  7. 127
    SugarNspice

    Dear Johanna, tell that 77 year old if he doesn’t add your name to his bank and account and house, you will leave. It just seems like he married you but he doesn’t trust you, Oh and no relationship can survive without trust. By the way it also sounds like he is just using you, ie married you for free cleaning and whatever else you do for him. Do you really want to look after him with no financial security in the future? Perhaps you would be happier, on your own.

  8. 128
    Mitzy

    Yes, he is selfish.  Why? Because first it is HIS money, second what else is HIS, let me guess, the right to 1. act superior 2. have the majority rule vote in all decisions (his money makes him the majority) 3. I bet if you shared your assests with another or only gave it in equal measure to the money he is willing to contribute he wouldn’t like it.  4. You most likely will end  up with the liabilities (should you have children) and he with the assets. 5. Not only is he selfish clearly he wants a marriage of inequality from the start 6. His money is more important than the relationship. 7. He will always hold the money over you to have more power in the relationship 8. He is probably as selfish in the bedroom, as his money can cover his “flaws” and he feels too superior to be intimate. 9. He will expect 100 percent effort on your part everywhere while he (his money) has conscripted his absence in things important to you. 10. He will think he has bought a wife (more like a mail order bride) and you will be punished regularly and he will use “HIS” money to do this and excuse himself.
     But you know this and that is why you are angry and resentful. A man that won’t share EQUALLY isn’t worth having, trust me I married one who was not very well heeled with a lot of liabilities.  Upon retirement (as he money grew) the real person shown out. Self centered, selfish, cheap, mean and divisional. Move on please. You will never be “validated” as a good or contributing person, but ALWAYS in the woman down position.

  9. 129
    Mitzy

    I agree with  This is not love comments.  Certainly not in the Biblical sense when two become one (moneywise too I suspect). 
      I think he is getting off cheap. He wants a self supporting maid and sex object. Sorry is that is harsh, but from the beginning he is telling/asking if you will accept a marriage of inequity. The gambling probably includes, travel and perhaps other women too.  He has realized he can’t keep this up, unless someone is “hired” to take care of the home front. 
    Currently you are “on approval” to see if you will cooperate with this arranged marriage, with the bait of the “high life” for Him.
    My advice if you do marry, (in spite of your anger and resentment) is KEEP YOUR MONEY out of his reach, TOTALLY FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION.
    He may gamble that away too.  I would also do a background check or ask around.  He may be “rich” from swindling other women clouded by love, and attracted to his assets and kindness.  I think there is a lot going on here. He also sounds a bit narcissistic, and I know from experience they will spend a great deal of time looking for a “target”, so four years isn’t so long. Many of these men are just great and total Mr. Nice guy till you are hooked (by marriage) maybe he is just waiting for that to “turn the tables” on you? This is their MO.
    I

  10. 130
    Mitzy

    I wanted to add, upon my husbands retirement, when money was a bit short during the time he qualified to receive it, and when he actually retired, his favorite saying was “put in on the credit card” which the majority were in my name, because he was “old fashioned” and only used cash for himself, I did assumming that was something he realized and agreed to pay.  NOT, he kept the cash for himself and the debits he assigned to me.
    MONEY and him keeping the MONEY, while I got the kids, home and debt to deal with after four children and 35 years of being “hoodwinked” this way, finally caused “incompatibility”, As his money status grew (thanks to my support on the home front), so did his big head, NOW the money was his and the kids were MY responsibility, as were their costs.
    Just if anyone is wondering, he can “never afford it” even for himself or the children or me AFTER he said “yes” to my request for some needed and some wanted or house hold stuff like USED furniture” or clothing. 
    MORAL, he liked to look good while being bad. If I was lonely or needed help with the home and kids, he showed me his growing “spread sheet” to justify his not being there, and frequently said, “for our retirement” which grew to half a million dollars, and he still didn’t have the time (for his family or home) or the money (for his family or home).
    Also, he frequently calls, called me a GOLDDIGGER……we were married 35 years and he wasn’t a rich man then, however as his income grew so did equally his selfish and mean and divisional ways…..I was told I didn’t “need” to work also early on, and I was thrilled to be so “lucky” to have a man that supported stay at home moms. 
    Well, not so lucky as he used this against me later on, and used “HIS” money to make me a trapped, wounded, and helpless “prey”. 
     We are divoricing, and he STILL can’t wrap his head around my rights to any of the money I helped earn or was frugal in my own ways (like doing all the repairs, buying used stuff etc.)  to support HIS earning it for US, when in reality he just USED my support to pad HIS accounts.
    When it comes to love, men love their money more. Do NOT marry someone who you are ALREADY angry with and resentful of, it will get worse not better.

  11. 131
    Nada

    Omg, i have such a bf and we only been dating online for 3 months but known each other for over a year.. It’s like reading my own story here.. if he can’t even spend three eyros to email me while he is away at his  monte carlo home, how do i expect him to really spend thousands and fly over to my home ( i live in asia, he is italian) as he promised? I am disappointed cus this are small gestures if love that he fail to do… he speaks of planning a future together but think he just do stuff as he pleases…

  12. 132
    Marie

    And another thing – why would she be judged more harshly if the $200 requested is actually for jewelry, clothes, hair, and makeup instead of to buy groceries.  Do you have any idea how much money it can take to date someone who is wealthy?  She is dating a millionaire.  She represents him, along with his cars, houses, and other expensive items.  They move in a certain social circle and she is expected to look and act a certain way.  People aren’t aware that he is not funding her — they just assume if she isn’t keeping up that she has poor taste and it reflects badly on the both of them. Just waxing and makeup alone can cost upwards of $200-300 a month depending on where you live. 
    I find it continually surprising on blogs and society that women are judged especially by men on the way they look, yet men have no idea sometimes what it actually costs to maintain that look.  If she were dating a guy making a middle class or lower class income, I would say fine, wearing cheaper clothing is actually what you should do.  But she is not.  If he enjoys seeing her look nice and welcomed by his friends and not labeled as a golddigger, he should help finance that.
    I am a doctor engaged to a doctor.  We discussed our joint account recently and decided how much to put into it.  We each make the same amount of money.  At first he made the usual protests of why do you need x amount of money for hair, makeup, jewelry, clothing, haha.  I told him fine, this is what my waxing costs, which I didn’t do until I met you, this is what the hairstyle that you like costs, this is what high heels cost and when I don’t wear them you point it out.  I am happy looking granola when we walk into a restaurant.  I am who I am.  But if you want me to look a certain way and enjoy it, that costs money and is a joint expense.  She should have the same conversation.  “Hey honey, my income has been reduced this year, as you know.  I no longer have the funds to maintain my appearance a certain way.  I am uncomfortable looking less than I usually look because I know I will be judged by your friends, but in the end I am who I am.  However, if it makes you uncomfortable, then I request that you help me pay for it.  If you are okay with me showing up to parties in last year’s clothes and being laughed at by your friends, then I probably should just leave you now.”

  13. 133
    Marie

    @Mitzy – I feel for you.  Unfortunately, this is the big risk that women who become homemakers, staying home to take care of the husband and kids to save tons on childcare and help him be successful in his job through your support of him when he is at home.  This is what happens in this day and age.  Back in the day, when women didn’t go to college as much, etc, it was expected that the woman stay home and support her husband and in turn the husband financially provided for the family.  Now it is viewed unfortunately as a “luxury.”  And when you stay home, you are not making any quantifiable income nor are you paying into social security or medicare.  It is easy when the marriage falls apart for the man to say indignantly it’s my money and I made it all by myself.  I didn’t see you going to work.  Even though it was a joint decision for the wife to stay home.  Furthermore, as the marriage progresses, whoever brings in the income begins to take in more power, decision-making, respect, etc.  If you stay home, you become less marketable in the workplace because your skills become outdated and it makes it harder to get a job as well in the future if you need one.  Very often, homemakers get divorced in middle age and they can be in big trouble.  If you decide to stay home, you need to make it very clear in terms of finances what is going to happen and how you are going to be respected because if you do it after the fact, it never goes well.

  14. 134
    Karl R

    Marie asked: (#172)
    “Do you have any idea how much money it can take to date someone who is wealthy?”
     
    It takes the amount of money that you feel obliged to spend. You apparently feel obliged to spend a lot more money if you’re dating someone much wealthier than you.
     
    Marie said: (#172)
    “She is dating a millionaire.  She represents him, along with his cars, houses, and other expensive items.”
     
    Perhaps you place yourself on the same level as your partner’s material goods. I don’t believe it’s healthy to date anyone who actually views you in that manner.
     
    Marie said: (#172)
    “People aren’t aware that he is not funding her — they just assume if she isn’t keeping up that she has poor taste and it reflects badly on the both of them.”
     
    If people in my social circle start judging my wife (or me) by anything besides the content of our character, then it’s an obvious indicator that I need to start hanging out with higher quality people.
     
    Marie said: (#172)
    “Just waxing and makeup alone can cost upwards of $200-300 a month depending on where you live.”
     
    Shaving is a lot cheaper than waxing. The only way someone can tell the difference is by touch. I don’t know about the social circles that Lara’s millionaire boyfriend hangs out in, but in the social circles I hang out in, people don’t grope my wife.
     
    Marie said: (#172)
    “If he enjoys seeing her look nice and welcomed by his friends and not labeled as a golddigger, he should help finance that.”
     
    In other words, in order to avoid being labeled as a gold-digger, she needs to become a gold-digger?
     
    And I’ll go back to my earlier point. My friends warmly welcomed all my girlfriends because they were my girlfriends. They didn’t call any of my girlfriends names, because they were my girlfriends. Apparently, I’m accustomed to hanging out with a much classier group of people than the rich folks you like to rub shoulders with.
     
    Marie said: (#172)
    “I am a doctor engaged to a doctor.”
     
    What city do you live in? Because the doctors in Houston are a lot less tacky than the doctors you’re accustomed to hanging around with.
     
    Marie said: (#172)
    “I am uncomfortable looking less than I usually look because I know I will be judged by your friends, but in the end I am who I am.”
     
    If one of your doctor friends/colleagues showed up to a social function with a girlfriend whose clothing, etc. was closer to what you’d expect from a schoolteacher than a doctor, would you judge her based on her appearance? Would you label her as a gold-digger? Would you make her feel unwelcome in your social circle?
     
    I think the entire tone of your post says a lot more about you than it does about Lara’s boyfriend.

  15. 135
    Marie

    Karl R. – Wow, that was the first time I posted something on a thread.  Do you stalk these boards and take everything so personally or something?  I never made any comments about you, your personal life, girlfriend, or social circle, why do you feel compelled to attack me and what you assume is my lifestyle?  I like to play devil’s advocate.  If everyone took the same point of view, how can we really get to the root of things?
     I never said any of this applied to my social circle at all. It was just a humorous conversation I had with my fiancé about our joint account.  He happens to love it when I dress up but bemoans the money it takes.  So I gave him a choice, we can either spend less and I look less fashionable, or you can help me fund this as a priority for the both of us.  He chose to want me to look nice, just because he enjoys it.
    As for the rest of it, I just want people to consider things from this woman’s point of view, even if she asked for $200 for something that isn’t a necessity.  The kind of social pressure that some women are under, it really is quite a lot and sometimes it’s difficult for their husbands or boyfriends to understand.  If you understand, then good for you.  But a lot of people do not understand.  Why doesn’t she leave?  Probably because she loves him.  It’s not easy to throw away 4.5 years.
     
    Since you’ve gotten so personal, yes, I am a doctor.  I do not spend my days socializing.  I work 12-16 hours a day seeing dying cancer patients and doing research and raising money to try and find a cure.  And that goes for most of my colleagues as well.  They are not “tacky” nor are they frivolous.  They hardly spend any time on themselves because they are so busy trying to be in the hospital. 
     
    The people I’m referring to are some of the hospital’s clients.   Some women are married to very wealthy husbands who are nickel and diming them.  Even if they are dying of cancer, even if they just want to buy something to make themselves feel beautiful.  It is still the “my money” vs “your money” phenomenon.  And it’s really very very sad.  And these couples probably started out just like this couple in the letter.  This problem only seems to get worse, not better.  Instead of worrying about their health, they worry about whether a mastectomy or losing their hair will make their husbands leave them for a better looking woman.  Because a lot of their friends have already been “traded in” for the newer model.  And these women, they have to fight time, they have to look good.  And they were professional women at one point, not golddiggers.  They just got talked into the staying at home with the kids bit.  And they did not assess their husband’s generosity of spirit accurately when agreeing to marry him and lose their income.  It shouldn’t be this way, but the reality on the ground is, sometimes it is (except in Houston, of course, where you live). 
     
    My point is, if you are a genuine person who is not a golddigger (and I’m assuming he wouldn’t be marrying her otherwise), and you are with a man who is making you feel bad about yourself for something so simple as asking for $200, you really need to re-examine if you’re a priority in his life or is it more worth it for him to protect his money and how he feels about it without taking your views into consideration?  Someone who is that calculating about money — is he going to be there for better or for worse?
         

  16. 136
    Karl R

    Marie said: (#175)
    “I like to play devil’s advocate.”
    Wikipedia, regarding “devil’s advocate”:
    “The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position.”
     
    So you were putting up that position in order to test the weaknesses in what other people were saying, but expect me to ignore the weaknesses in the arguments you put forward?
     
    Marie asked: (#175)
    “why do you feel compelled to attack me and what you assume is my lifestyle?”
     
    The first sentence of your first post.
     
    Marie said: (#172)
    “why would she be judged more harshly if the $200 requested is actually for jewelry, clothes, hair, and makeup instead of to buy groceries.”
     
    Around the time I was 21 I had to scrape by for a few months where I couldn’t always afford groceries. At one point I made $10 of groceries last 2 weeks.
     
    Tomorrow, why don’t you go out and spend $10 on groceries. And for the next two weeks, eat nothing but what you bought with those $10. After you’ve done that, come back and tell me why I judged your comments so harshly.
     
    Marie said: (#175)
    “my colleagues [...] are not ‘tacky’ nor are they frivolous.  They hardly spend any time on themselves because they are so busy trying to be in the hospital.”
     
    The doctors we know are too busy with 12-16 hour days to judge a woman for failing to look like a millionaire. The same goes for the lawyers I know. The same goes for the investment bankers I know. Who is supposed to be in the boyfriend’s social circle judging her appearance?
     
    Marie said: (#175)
    “The people I’m referring to are some of the hospital’s clients.   Some women are married to very wealthy husbands who are nickel and diming them.”
     
    Okay…. The women who have wealthy husbands, the husbands that nickel and dime them, are the same women who are going to judge Lara when her boyfriend doesn’t buy her nice clothes, makeup, waxing and hairstyling?
     
    Something’s not adding up with your stories. Your devil needs a better advocate.
     
    Marie said: (#175)
    “you are with a man who is making you feel bad about yourself for something so simple as asking for $200, you really need to re-examine if you’re a priority in his life or is it more worth it for him to protect his money”
     
    Is Lara the kind of person he needs to protect his money from?
    1. She used to earn $100k per year.
    2. She currently earns $45k per year (possibly as unemployment).
    3. She lives in his house (rent free).
    4. She needs him to give her $200 so she can shop.
     
    I think I can make Lara feel more awkward about the $200.
     
    My wife paid off her mortgage, remodeled her house, paid the utilities, bought and maintained her car, paid for her insurance, bought her groceries, filled a closet full of nice clothes, filled a drawer with makeup, had no credit card debt … all on $45k per year. We dated for 3+ years before we got married, and she never needed to ask me for money so she could go shopping.
     
    Why was my wife able to do so much more with $45k per year than Lara?
     
    Have you ever dated someone who mismanaged their money (and yours)? That quickly changes a relationship from better to worse.

  17. 137
    Marie

    Karl R.  “Around the time I was 21 I had to scrape by for a few months where I couldn’t always afford groceries. At one point I made $10 of groceries last 2 weeks.
     
    Tomorrow, why don’t you go out and spend $10 on groceries. And for the next two weeks, eat nothing but what you bought with those $10. After you’ve done that, come back and tell me why I judged your comments so harshly.”
    Hi Karl, I’m glad you told me about your difficult circumstances.  I guess you see only the monetary value of what Lara is saying, while I see and sympathize with her emotional pain.  You only had to scrape by for a few months.  I had to scrape by with $10 worth of groceries for 5 years while my mom was sick and couldn’t work when I was a teenager.  I cannot even look at an egg sandwich and crackers now without feeling nauseated.  That is why I feel sympathetic to this woman who clearly was hurt by her fiancé’s cheapness.  It was not about the money.  He made her feel worthless.  I don’t know what her personal circumstances are and what she spends her income on.  But you seem to see her as a spoiled brat because of your experiences, while because of my experiences I see her as someone who feels shamed by her fiancé about money.  Regardless of what she needed the money for, that shouldn’t happen in a loving relationship.  I don’t think we will ever see eye to eye on this. 

  18. 138
    Faith

     @ Robyn comment #2

    You have described my situation exactly.  You see, he has no problem spending money on his things…only what is good for him. He is generous when he takes me out.  He doesn’t expect me to pay at all ; he is generous with things to do with ‘us’ .  However, I have always felt when it came to ‘me’ he isn’t so giving.  He isn’t that cheap but, I don’t know how to explain it… I don’t feel special at all.   You see for my birthday I didn’t feel like what he did was a special thing you would do for a woman you want to marry!   As soon as I read your comment on the PreNup – you got it right on.  He obviously brought this up and his main concern was all about protecting himself. 

  19. 139
    Faith

    In addition to my comment #178; I live alone not with him…. I make way less money than he does.  I have never asked him for a dime.  On a few occasions we would go shopping together. Often he would see a dress he loved and said I should buy it.  He would practically force me to get it.  My finances are a little tight.  I always wondered, if he liked it so much, why wouldn’t he just buy it for me?  It wasn’t that expensive and he surely could afford it.  I just found that a little strange.  It always stuck out as a red flag to me but I tried not to make a big deal about it. Like don’t force me to buy something you would like to see on me.  And this is a man claimed he wanted to marry me and was very serious with me.  Anyway, he had no problem spending money on expensive dinners for “US”.  When it came to ‘me’ it felt different.  I would have appreciated anything, small gestures that was just for me.  I don’t want to sound selfish – but anything- even if it was a simple thing like here is lunch money (if I stayed at his house the night before and we didn’t pack a lunch); or take some change off the dresser and use it to buy your coffee on the way to work!    He didn’t seem so giving when it came to spending money on just ‘me’ or when it came to doing things just for ‘me’.

  20. 140
    Henriette

    Wow.  I’m reading this years after it was originally posted but it certainly strikes a nerve.  While I have strong feelings on the subject of marital finances, I don’t need to air my personal views here; what I think is fair & equitable makes no real difference.  What matters is that Lara and her fiance have wildly differing views on how money should be handled within a couple and they don’t seem to be skilled communicators on the subject.   I hope that they delayed the wedding until they could 1. come to an agreement on how finances would be handled in the future and 2. live a while with this agreed-upon financial system in place and see if it really feels right to both of them (chances are, someone will start to feel resentful).
     
    I do wish that Lara comes back and fills us in on what transpired.  I think it would be fascinating and educational.

  21. 141
    Monika

    The  thing is that men and women are not equal. Men cant have children. only women can. That also means in most cases that its a 5 years with almost no income for the girl. That’s not equal. If he is not helping now how is he going to help then. Unless they will not have any children the money segregation will be an issue.

  22. 142
    Nch

    Ok. All the girls calling you a gold-digger have obviously never been treated like the most important thing in the world, by a man. The guys, they just know they’ll never be successful enough to have the woman of their dreams, as these would signify high maintenance women. Or, they have never been in love. When someone is in love, they break your walls, they make you feel vulnerable, and they teach you a whole new world outside your prototype of “the one you were looking for” 
    I’m so sorry you are going through this, I really hope you get to talk to him about this issue because it seems to me that, he knows you will not complain about his decisions and behaviors, and he might be marrying you because it’s convenient for him to have a submissive woman.
    It’s so sad he won’t wanna make your life better and help you reach your full potential, if he clearly could with his contacts and all. Rich or poor, when a man loves a woman, he wants to feel like the man, provide, protect, and feel needed and admired. I don’t think this guy is doing any of that though. I only hope that once you get married he stops being so selfish but if you didn’t marry him yet, confront him about this, if he gets mad then you know he doesn’t love you, he should be trying to understand you and not making you feel bad. Never be ashamed of your thoughts or feelings, confront them, stand up for yourself.
    I wish you the best of luck and please, don’t buy into that equality garbage, when it comes down to love, a man wants to feel like a man and a woman like a woman.

  23. 143
    Alex

    Women still make less than men – despite all the equality talk.  There is plenty of statistical evidence to back that up, so won’t waste space here.  As long as she is not being overly extravagant and spending tactlessly – he should be contributing more to her needs.  They are suppose to be a partnership.
    Not to mention the cost of maintaining a woman’s good looks.  These costs can be outrageous (in men’s eyes) for even a moderate level of upkeep.  Men take for granted a woman who takes care of herself, looks polished, and classy.  The cost of clothing, cosmetics, skincare regimens, exercise regimens, haircare add up – even on the low-end level!
    If this guy doesn’t want to give her HIS money for shopping since her income has dropped, then he better not have any problem when she stops looking top notch.  This isn’t about being a gold-digger. This is about reality.  She used to make more money to upkeep her look. Now she doesn’t.  He can afford to cover the look she can no longer afford to maintain on her own.

  24. 144
    Jen

    “The shoe on my feet, I’ve bought it
    The clothes I’m wearing, I’ve bought it
    The rock I’m rockin’, I’ve bought it
    ‘Cause I depend on me”
    Preach it, Beyoncé

    1. 144.1
      Jamal

      Thats y the realtionship structure is messed up now…Independent Woman Campaign…and not Equality…im talking the man vs woman dynamic that is destroying couples and families. IDentity Crisis of the sexes..men cant be men because women act like they dont need us and even worse..neva show us how important we are to them..just my 2 cent.

  25. 145
    Johannes

    Wow Simone, that’s a really great and relevant response.  I like my girlfriend a lot and I currently make about 2x as much as she does (she makes a pretty decent living, definitely enough to support her lifestyle and sock away plenty for retirement/savings) and it does make me resentful that while she socks away money for herself and expects a lot of equality in nearly every aspect of our relationship, she expects me to pay for the majority of “going out” expenses.  I looked at my bills and I pay for 75%+ of our meals out, I drive 90%+ of the time (and pay for the gas, etc).  I don’t deny that some people may think I’m being cheap or petty to keep track, but I appreciate Simone’s comment that hey, in the age of equality, it’d be nice for everyone to expect a little less, be grateful a little more often, and maybe share a little more of the expenses.  A lot of my guy friends – married and not – grumble about finances and how their partners view shared expenses.  Anyway, thanks for highlighting the guy’s viewpoint in this article.  Just because someone makes more doesn’t mean he/she should be expected to pay more (unless the other person in the relationship didn’t make enough to support themselves/got laid off/is a stay at home parent…).

  26. 146
    Tony

    So let me get this straight. He pays for the house, the bills and stuff like that. He spends his money on things he likes. She barely has any expenses, so she has 45k to spend on womanly things? That’s just fine, no? Why the hell does he have to cough up 200 bucks because she wants a pair of new shoes?
     
    You’ll probably have a financially stable life, so I don’t get what the fuss is all about. Be lucky you found a guy that doesn’t have to worry about money.

  27. 147
    Emma

    Interesting. I think if she is feeling like this then she needs to have the ‘money talk’ ASAP…especially before getting married. I’ve dated my fiance for five years and we have always split costs exactly down the middle. My father raised me to always pay my way and only after a long courtship followed by marriage should you even consider combining finances. My fiance is very generous and always offers to pay, but I believe that it is a partnership and things should be tackled together. We are finally at the point of starting the talk about combining our finances because of all our wedding expenses. If you can’t have a frank, open discussion with your husband about something so simple then you’re in big trouble down the road. Financial issues are the number one reason for divorce. My mental hiccup before addressing finances with him was the fact that I didn’t want him to think that I wasn’t going to contribute as much. I didn’t want him to think that I would stop pulling my weight. A marriage is a deal between two people with similar goals who wish to pursue them together. Some couples may find that separate accounts work well for them, or having one joint account is best..whatever. It’s just important to address these issues right away so that you know that both of you are on the same page. From a woman’s point of view, it is also very nice to be courted in the beginning. It doesn’t have to be anything expensive (a nice picnic in the park perhaps?) as long as the woman is feeling special and is receiving attention. That’s what dating is all about. Women love attention more than ca$h.

  28. 148
    Air

    What is his and her age? If he is older than her, which is probably the case, why the hell must she pay to put out for an old/older man? Men and women are equal, and if he is older, he is not equal to her. Also, she said that he spent on a house and a car, and people said that he “subsidized” her living. He spent money on his own house and his own car, so he subsidized nothing. She was just here for a ride. If tomorrow he decides to get rid of her, she’d be a fool, who paid for an old man expenses/subsidized an old man expenses, while he gambled, and then he threw her out when he found a better model (younger, with more money). She should start looking after herself and ask herself what would happen to her if he decides to throw her away from his posh house.

  29. 149
    Sue

    You are good breading stock and thats it.
    Just like your good looks his money has an expiry date.
    Either one falters and you will be divorced. 
    Pay your own way, it sucks… but it will confirm how much you really love each other. 

  30. 150
    Larisa

    In the real life, there is not always going to be up and down times. When two persons are in a less responsibility relationship, it is likely to be less things to stress about; however, moving forward to a more serious commitment with each other, things might started to heat up, especially when it comes to combining finance together.  Although most of couples can be happy together during a good time, it is usually more challenging in the down time.
    Base from reading the comment from Lara, when she asked $200 help from her Fiance, his hesitated and might showed his unwillingness to provide the support she needed at that time, this leads her feeling unsupported from her Fiance during her down time and that worries her what could happen later on when things become more critical and hectic. (For a person makes about $45,000+, $200 is a small fraction of her salary, so it seems to me it is more of temporary borrowing for lack of cash on hand or emergency situation, although this is just my guess since it is not stating in her statement)
    Lara also mentioned that she is very generous with a big heart, it seems to me she might be referring to money spending. She doesn’t mind to spend the money on her love ones and tend to just give it without asking back (more a giver situation) while on the other hand, her Fiance might have a different perspective on how a relationship should run (more of a taker situation). Then again, I cannot be sure if this is what she meant, but it sort of leads where her frustration came from: the fiance perspective difference between her and her Fiance. 
    When Lara might feel love should not measure with money and two persons should be always there for one another no matter what it takes , her Fiance might feel other wise. To me, it seems Lara is more emotional than her Fiance, who is rather more rational with his money. The problem arise because the different perspectives in between two persons and that’s always difficult to discuss and reconcile because there might involved changing another person’s belief.
    So let’s sit back a little and look this all over again. Usually a person who is making larger scale of income tend to compensate their times. They usually work a lot and exposing to higher risks and responsibilities, Since time might be luxury to them, on rare occasion when they do have time,  they will spoiled themselves with things they probably don’t need and spend money on things they feel it will relax them (In which, some people might found it odd why a person can own so many cars, or spend money on unnecessary gambling. Just imagine if you came home feeling unhappy, for some, a nice bubble bath will does the trick, but to some, it is not.) With that being say, your Fiance spending his money might seems odd to you, but it is what he needs during that time to keep him going and absolutely has no relation with his hesitation with you asking money from him.
    So it comes down to what different perspectives of two persons. Since you love your Fiance and am engaged to him, it is the best for you to talk to him about your concern in person. It can be open and light-hearted, for example, you can start your conversation on few articles that related to your situation or leads to the questions you want to discuss, then ask your Fiance what he will be likely to do when it happens. For example, you can gather an article on why finance is challenging for married couple, then ask your Fiance about what he thinks the challenge is. Then once he starts to open up, it is a good time to contribute what you have on your mind.
    Best luck to you!   

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