Nov12

Dating Advice: I Like Nerdy Guys, But They Don’t Like Me.

07:55 am on Nov 12th 2009 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

37 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice

37 Responses to “Dating Advice: I Like Nerdy Guys, But They Don’t Like Me.”

1. E. Foley - Geek's Dream Girl Nov 12th 2009 at 08:57 am 1

   Evan’s spot-on here (as usual).  There’s obviously something about your profile that’s not ringing right with the kind of guys you’re trying to connect with.  You may also be saying something in your emails to them that’s rubbing them the wrong way.
   One thing that I’ve found from a lifetime of being a geek and being in relationships with geeks/nerds – some don’t like being called a geek or a nerd.  So if you’re emailing saying, “You seem like the nerdy guy I’ve been looking for!” he might take that entirely the wrong way.
   For geeks and nerds, it’s best for you to mention something in their profile that you also do or enjoy.  Ask them what their favorite character is on a TV show you both watch, mention that you can play guitar on Expert for all of Rock Band 1 & 2, ask them what they thought of Zombieland.
   The best way to a geek or nerd guy’s heart is to connect with them about something that most girls don’t have a clue about.  But don’t try to fake it – Fake Geek has a stench you can smell a mile away.

2. marc Nov 12th 2009 at 11:44 am 2

   The social awkwardness that you find so attractive could very well be what’s preventing them from writing you back.  They may not know what to write to a real live woman. And an email may lead to a phone call, which they may not be able to handle at all. It might just be easier for them to complain about not being able to get a woman than to actually respond to one who contacts them. Don’t take any of it personally.

3. hunter Nov 12th 2009 at 11:54 am 3

   I remember being called a “nerd”.   I remember labeling her “clueless”. 

4. Heather Nov 12th 2009 at 12:08 pm 4

   Hmm … I like the nerdy ones too.  I always figured myself for a nerd, because I was good in school and not into going with what the ‘popular’ kids were doing.  But I am not really a geek because, while I can appreciate many things, I don’t find myself utterly devoted to anything in particular, like ‘geeks’ seem to do.  I also don’t play video games so I guess I’m not really part of their little club.  You know it’s pretty lame when you can’t even get into that club!

   Anyhow, my experience with these guys has been the same as yours.  They claim to want girlfriends but run when a pretty girl like you or me gives them a legitimate chance at that.  I think it has to do with not wanting to grow up, which is fine – that’s a choice we can make – but I really wish they weren’t out there trying to get my attention just so they can freak out when they do get it.

   As a side note, I dated a bona fide ‘geek’ once and it was sort of annoying and a turn off how a 41 year old man had about $3000 worth of Star Trek action figures stowed away under his bed, movie posters all over the walls, a collection of DVDs that rivaled the local Blockbuster store, and Disney memorabilia everywhere.  Do you really want to share your guy with that? 

5. Honey Nov 12th 2009 at 12:20 pm 5

   I laughed out loud when Evan called brilliant men stubborn, arrogant, and neurotic.  That’s my boyfriend, to a T.  Ha!

   I agree with the first commenter – if she’s obviously fetishizing them, then that might be off-putting, and the person who said that they may be too shy/socially awkward to respond might have a point, too (especially if the OP is really pretty). 

   She might want to look at her profile, too, since whoever she’s e-mailing will probably check her out that way before deciding whether or not to e-mail her back.  I don’t think she has to go over the top, just genuinely talk about the activities she enjoys and the type of relationship she wants.

6. Steve Nov 12th 2009 at 12:32 pm 6

   Hi Patti;
   Many men, not just nerds,  don’t know what to do with a woman who they perceive, either, as being “out of their league”  or not one of their crowd.
    
   Think about what the kind of man you are after likes to talk about.
    
   Try putting some hooks for those conversations into your profile and in your initial emails.

7. Steve Nov 12th 2009 at 12:42 pm 7

   Question for the “geek cougars”:
    
   Ladies, assuming that a nerd is a socially awkward adult, why would you want to spend time with such a person?    I don’t mean that in a sarcastic way.   I work in the IT field and I find dealing with socially awkward people exhausting.   What attracts you about these people?

8. Sayanta Nov 12th 2009 at 12:52 pm 8

   Steve, #7-

   They’re not threatening.

9. Heather Nov 12th 2009 at 12:54 pm 9

   I think I like them because they are sort of non-threatening.  I particularly love shy guys.  ‘Regular’ guys can be loud, mean, cocky, or just plain rude and I can’t deal with that.  Also, the nerdy guys are sort of ‘outsiders’ and I consider myself to be on the outside myself, so I guess I think of them as kindred spirits that way.

10. Honey Nov 12th 2009 at 01:03 pm 10

    Most of the people I know are “nerds” – either have PhDs already or are in the process.  Most of them are not, IMO, socially awkward, but perhaps we are using different definitions?

    I think there is a big difference between being shy and being socially awkward, but maybe that’s me?

11. Helen Nov 12th 2009 at 01:08 pm 11

    Steve #7 – Ha ha!  You asked good questions. Have you ever read Scott Adams’ “The Dilbert Principle”? He has a chapter on “Engineers, Scientists, Programmers, and Other Odd People” that explains the appeal of nerds:

    They’re usually smart.
    They can fix things for you.
    If you mate with them, you’ll have brainy children that will get a doctorate and a high-paying job before they have sex.

    I like nerds for the first reason, anyway.

12. Steve Nov 12th 2009 at 01:46 pm 12

    @Helen #11, but why nerds ( socially awkward people ) then?
     
    There are plenty of smart people who are not socially awkward ( i.e. difficult to interact with ).    Why not go for a smart guy who isn’t socially awkward?

13. Roger Nov 12th 2009 at 03:00 pm 13

    I was a nerd when I was younger, and am still attracted to nerds, But, at the risk of sounding unsympathetic, I suggest that trying to date a person who lacks social and dating skills  is doomed to failure.  Especially considering the strength of the male sex drive, a man who has not developed the  skills for successful dating,  it is unlikely that you, despite your wonderful qualities, will overcome his inability to enter a relationship.
    If you do succeed, you will have to go through the agony of his learning how to be good relationship material. He won’t know how to make you feel lvalued as awoman, solve a dispute, or be a good lover,– those things all require practice.
    I am sure there are many men who would be attractive to you who have the social/romantic skills to satisfy you, but you may need to look at different potential partners.
    Think about what it is  about the nerds that attracts you and seek men with those characteristics.  I like the sense of innocence, which is harder to find in someone who has assumed their place in adult socializing, but they do exist. I had a girlfriend that was a member of a fantasy/science fiction writing group and it was loaded with people who cultivated their innocent view. Yet they had to have social skills or their prose wouldn’t ring true.
    Keep looking there are many men out there looking for you.
    Good luck!
    Roger

14. A-L Nov 12th 2009 at 03:22 pm 14

    I had to chuckle at Helen’s answer.  And much of it is true.  Frankly, I don’t think most nerds are socially awkward.  I think they’re intelligent, have a quick wit, enjoy intellectual stimulation, and aren’t into the whole party-party-party scene.  And frankly, that’s right up my alley.

15. downtowngal Nov 12th 2009 at 04:39 pm 15

    I agree w Roger.  I’ve always been attracted to ‘nerdy’ guys and have had the same experiences as OP.  Many of these guys just don’t know HOW to date – that they should follow up after a date, etc.  And if you do (thinking oh, he’s just shy) it doesn’t work b/c the guy then feels further intimidated.
    I also find that many guys who used to be nerds but went on to have successful careers and now feel they are entitled to date only women who look like supermodels. 

16. Sayanta Nov 12th 2009 at 04:47 pm 16

    Heather-

    I swear, we’ve had identical experiences! We should start a support group together….lol

17. JerseyGirl Nov 12th 2009 at 05:59 pm 17

    I actually think Evan presented a unique and right on opinion on this. And one that I never thought of myself. I usually like nerdy types to. But not nerdy-virgins that live at home types. I guess just more geek chic. However, it makes sense that nerdy guys might be more led to think in fantasy mode and set unrealisitic standards.

18. Sayanta Nov 12th 2009 at 06:54 pm 18

    Roger #13-

    It’s understandable for most Westerners to believe that being in lots of relationships primes you to be a pro when it comes to the “One.” It is a logical conclusion, I won’t deny that. But I also think it interesting how Westerners, Americans, in particular, start getting into ‘relationships’ at a very young age and then divorce in such high numbers later.

    In Eastern countries, however, most people’s first relationship is their marriage. Yet Easterners have a far far lower divorce rate. How to explain this? Yes, there was a taboo against divorce for a long time. Yet, not every Eastern marriage was, surely, unhappy. The people who never were in relationships learned by being with each other. And they weren’t (aren’t) comparing their spouse to some past boyfriend/girlfriend, because- well, there wasn’t any past boyfriend or girlfriend to make a comparison with. So, it’s obviously possible to learn how to be a good lover/husband, etc. without having the experience of it before.

    To repeat, most Americans have had tons of relationship experiences- it obviously hasn’t helped them in becoming better partners since a lot of them Still can’t figure out how to make a relationship last.

    PS- I realize it’s weird that I keep saying “them” since I’m American myself. I just can’t relate to having three boyfriends a year, so it seems a little other-worldly to me.

19. Roger Nov 12th 2009 at 10:33 pm 19

    DowntownGal said:
    >” many guys who used to be nerds but went on to have successful careers and now feel they are entitled to date only women who look like supermodels. ”
    Wow! I guess I’ve been missing out! Does this mean that all these years of enjoying going out with women with a nice smile, fun to talk to, who treated me as a friend/perhaps lover were a waste?? And I was fool enough to mary one and have what I thought was 25 great years and a couple of wonderful children.  I guess I could dump my girlfriend of the last 18 months and go for somebody really hot looking.LOL!
    I think looks are terribly over-rated. No longer in my 20s, I can assure you, looks are not that long lasting. Skin wrinkles, things begin to sag… What does last is simple things like, are they fun to hang out with,  do they treat you with respect?
    I believe the people who look really hot online are no hotter than the rest. Your feeling is simply your hormones attaching to a picture with no actual physical experience.  You have no way of knowing how hot they will be when you meet them.
    Online or in person, the hot looks are just like any other advertising-a come on that may not deliver the inner beauty that makes a person shine for a lifetime.  Don’t stand in line for that bombshell, evasive nerd or who ever doesn’t return your interest. Go out with the “merely attractive” one who, like you, is looking for someone who can be truly special.
    Roger
     
     

20. downtowngal Nov 13th 2009 at 03:32 am 20

    JG #17, I agree.  Evan brings up another good point, that some gals tend to date nerdy guys thinking they’ll be easier to ‘date’ – faithful and treat them well, presumably because they’d be happy that a cute girl is paying attention to them.  Also that they’d be better boyfriends because they’re nicer people than the a-hole/bad-boys.

    All too often it’s what Heather describes.  Even if a guy needs some work in the dating dept nudging him along won’t make for a good relationship.   If he’s not callling you or blows you off because he’s too scared, it’s just the same as if he were doing it because he’s seeing someone else/playing games.  The gal gets just as disappointed eithher way.
    So a word to all of you ‘nerdy’/socially awkward guys out there – don’t be scared.  If a gal seems interested and you’re not sure, be a man and pursue her.  Don’t worry abt what she may think of you – worse thing is she’ll respect you, and you’ll gain experience.  Best thing is she’ll be impressed and want to date you. But you won’t know until you try.

21. Joe Nov 13th 2009 at 12:19 pm 21

    Re: people being not unhappy in Eastern marriages in the olden days…isn’t it possible that a person could be unhappy, but since there is no option, one’s happiness or unhappiness is not even worth considering?  If there’s no field on the other side of the fence, it doesn’t matter whether or not the grass there is greener than the one on your side.

22. Honey Nov 13th 2009 at 01:58 pm 22

    @ Joe, #21 – That’s how I’d read it, too.  I know my parents’ generation (I’m 30) and earlier didn’t really ever ask themselves whether their jobs provided them with personal satisfaction and enrichment.  My dad just found a job that he was capable of that paid a decent salary and did it.  I never heard him talk about loving his job, and I think he thinks I’m a bit weird for getting a PhD “just” so I could find work that interests me, but I never heard him complain about his job, either.  Nowadays we expect to have it all – which is possible, but takes a lot more work and initiative and compromise than people realize.

23. Helen Nov 13th 2009 at 02:02 pm 23

    Nerds are appealing because they are interested in something besides money, sex, and themselves.  They might be delighted by philosophy, physics, astronomy, engineering, biology, math…

    I am strongly attracted to people – both men AND women – who have a passionate interest and aptitude in an intellectual or artistic field.

    That said, you can’t date a nerd and expect your relationship to be the same as ”normal” relationships, or those depicted in the mainstream media.  Nerds usually don’t conform.  If you’re fine with nonconformity, you will have no problem dating a nerd.

    Every single man I dated in the past was a nerd.  My husband is a nerd.  I am a nerd.  Now our kids will (ideally) have their PhDs before having sex.   (Just kidding!)

24. mic Nov 14th 2009 at 11:58 am 24

    She sounds extraverted. It also sounds as though she wants an introvert more than a “nerd” per se. It’s possible that the typical man of either group usually is put off by outgoing women. Regardless, maybe she should judge the way women usually do (and contrary to old beliefs) – on looks, but not on stereotypes, say, “nerdy-looking”. A man with decent, maybe slightly unusual style who radiates a sort of quiet warmth might be her best option.

25. Robert Nov 14th 2009 at 01:13 pm 25

    I think your troubles reflect the flaws of the men you’re pursuing, rather than a problem with your appearance, approach, or character.  I love classic literature, keg stands, MMORPG’s, clubbing, scientific theory (esp. quantum mechanics), science fiction (esp. quantum mechanics),  house parties, Dungeons and Dragons, bars, movies, museums, traveling to major cities and seeing everything possible in a weekend, etc. I think a person’s “nerdiness” shouldn’t effect their social skills and their zest for life.

    I look at shut in nerds the same way I look at monosyllabic frat boys. Their life lacks balance. I learned that early on. I spent early high school with my nose in the books and video games. I spent late high school stoned and drunk, continually partying. By the time I made it to college I managed to have the time of my life and still pass my classes.  

    It sounds like you’re not looking for someone who’s “nerdy”, it sounds like you’re looking for people who have problems relating to and interacting with others, and who lack a general passion for life. That doesn’t sound like a fun relationship to me.

26. MeetMeinOtrSPce Nov 15th 2009 at 04:43 pm 26

    Robert #25- I would have to agree with “Their life lacks balance.” Too much of anything is bad! Even things labelled as “good for you.” There should be a healthy balance. Being nerdy is totally fine, obviously, but I don’t know how great it would be to date someone that introverted. Dated a nerd before, by every aspect of the definition, and it’s not all it’s built up to be. I know that sounds mean, but really they’re so clueless in the dating game. The date I went on consisted of me asking questions about him and him talking about himself the entire time. Since he didn’t know how to date(by that I mean know how to make conversation, which he had no CLUE how to go about it… AT ALL), he stared blankly back at me. I’m not saying they’re all like that, but if you think he’s introverted and nerdy there’s a pretty darn good chance that’s how he might be.  Having a date like the one I just desrcibed doesn’t really give you a good look at how a second date might be. Just another observation. I’m not going to tell anyone how or who they should date.

27. hunter Nov 15th 2009 at 09:05 pm 27

    meetmeinoutrspace, I know what you are saying, I remember having dificulty conversing while on a date.   I took months of counseling to learn the art of conversation.   You are right, not all men are like that, but, a good, many, many are.  

28. Sayanta Nov 18th 2009 at 04:55 pm 28

    I went out with an econ professor one time- I’m a nerd at heart myself, and his e-mails were hilarious. So…I spend two hours getting ready for this dude, and he shows up with a huge hole in his sweater. He was a nice guy, but the fact that he asked me to lunch and then refused to eat (uncomfortable for me since I was starving) and did not make eye contact with me once (come ‘on, I know I’m not that hideous ) was- let’s say, a dealbreaker

29. Helen Nov 19th 2009 at 05:33 am 29

    Oh Sayanta! You MUST avoid the econ professors. I say this as a one-time economist myself. I’ve attended many econ conferences – they’re the conferences that never serve free lunches or coffee – and have had many funny experiences. E.g., if I wanted a small coffee and another attendee did too, he would insist we get one large one and then split it because the cost was a little lower that way. Even if I didn’t know him well!

    The nerd in me says: yes, that makes sense. The “socially proper” me says: yes, but there is value in having one’s own coffee that exceeds the few cents we managed to save.

    The guy who showed up with a huge hole in his sweater to take you out: don’t take it personally. Almost certainly, he didn’t notice. Not eating and not looking at you, though, when I bet you’re gorgeous? Yes, those are dealbreakers.

    (Speaking of nerddom: just found out that I’ve had a paper accepted in Science – whoo hoo!)

30. Joe Nov 19th 2009 at 08:55 am 30

    Just because he wasn’t eating doesn’t mean you couldn’t eat…

31. Sayanta Nov 19th 2009 at 09:09 am 31

    Helen-

    lol- thanks for that. The guy was FUNNY though- well, okay- in e-mail. I actually offered to pay for my lunch, since I figured it was a price thing, I wouldn’t see him again, etc. But he insisted on paying. Oh well, the mystery of the unexplained….

    COngrats on your article!! What’s it called and when is it coming out, so I can look for it?

32. Helen Nov 19th 2009 at 11:43 am 32

    Thanks Sayanta!  The Science article will come out either next week or the week after.  It does no good to look for an author named  “Helen,” though – that’s just my blog name.   It’s similar to my real name. 

33. Sayanta Nov 19th 2009 at 02:14 pm 33

    cool- yeah, Sayanta’s not the name I go by in the non-computer world either.

34. downtowngal Nov 21st 2009 at 01:54 pm 34

    Roger #19, I wasn’t referring to you, but to guys who remain single into their 40/50’s and set their expectations to high that they won’t date any women who’s less than a 10.

    And Sayanta #28, how painful.  Guys, another lesson – a women feels uncomfortable if you take her out and don’t order anything, or very little.  It’s saying that you don’t really care about sharing your time w her in a meaningful way, and it makes her feel as if she’s being too idulgent/self-concious.

    If you’re not as hungry as she is, that’s ok, order something on the light side, but if she’s ordering an entree and you just get a drink or a club soda, it’s unsettling. 

35. charles Dec 1st 2009 at 04:27 pm 35

    When I was a young lonely nerd, most women who said things to me that sounded like come-ons were just teasing me. At least, that’s what I believe(d). So perhaps one problem here is that, these nerds have been put down by women so much that they don’t believe you. They also tend to miss subtlety / “hints” because they don’t expect women to be interested in them, so they don’t interpret hints as such. Yes, it’s a terrible catch-22 but it’s also a matter of basing expectations on past results (you know, the scientific method!).
    Maybe a little more directness and/or some way to show you are sincere would help? They may also be worried that you won’t be interested in anything they are interested in. Nerdy guys tend to be hypersensitive to perceived lack of interest in the person they are talking to; this leads to an embarrassed feeling and they stop talking. (I’m still guilty of this!) An idea: Ask them to explain something they are interested in to you, or bring up your own topic to discuss. Directness and persistence will help, I think. You say that lack of relationship experience is “not the problem”, but actually it is — even if they believe you are sincere, they will shy away for fear of being a disappointment as a result of their inexperience.
    I really don’t think there is such a thing as the “friend zone” with guy nerds… usually we are IN the friend zone, not putting others in it. So I can’t imagine that that’s your problem. The problem is, nerds have their own sort of baggage. Positive, sincere encouragement will go a long way, if you are willing to provide it.

36. melody Dec 6th 2009 at 07:13 pm 36

    Ok not to sound vain, but I do get a lot of attention from guys. But the majority of them just don’t do it for me. I met this guy through another friend (who I met through another friend…). After getting to know him over the couse of a few months I realized I liked him.  We ended up dating for a month. We are both in our early/mid 20’s yet he had never had a gf. At first he acted so into me, but then broke up with me because, as he says (still not entirely sure though…), he realized he wasn’t as ready for a relationship as he thought he was. He told me that girls don’t really go for him, and ESPECIALLY not girls like me. He said me liking him was a ‘fluke’. I find that very offensive, because I wasn’t even looking or wanting to date anyone before him. I went out with him BECAUSE I liked him, but because I wanted a boyfriend for the sake of having out.

37. Matt Dating Dec 11th 2009 at 02:22 pm 37

    Melody it sounds like he has some issues that are in no way related to you as a person. It’s a shame that he is unable to deal with his own insercurities and has obviously hurt your feelings because of that. If you do really like him though, it sounds like, from what you say, that he isn’t the womanizing type,  so maybe just give him some time to think it through. 

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