Are My Kids Keeping Me From Finding Love?

Are My Kids Keeping Me From Finding Love?

Evan,
I fall into the majority of divorced women with a degree who are looking on line, but with children. Dating with children changes the rules of the game entirely. For both men and women. As a single person without children you are open to possibilities, open to long distance relationships even, but when the kids are around then we have to change our mindset to realizing that we are Teflon until the kids are out of the house, that the Brady Bunch was just a fantasy TV sitcom, and that living a life of dating without the kids makes us live two lives, one with kids and one without. Soon enough you’re going to resent one of them, if not both, and the idea of bringing your children along for dates is not really something acceptable.

So you can talk about what your dating life as a single man was like –you wanted a woman who you could have children with, so you probably didn’t date women with children and if you did you soon found out that they needed to be thrown back. That’s how I feel, that every man I meet will never really date me for a serious relationship because I have children, and especially if he has his too, then it’s like he can understand but he also doesn’t want to pick up someone else’s slack. Perhaps you can recommend a different resource…or you can explain how your comments apply when it comes to dating with children.

Try it with your wife…pretend the kids were not yours, and you were dating her…how would that change everything? –Joy

Joy,

Thanks for your email, as it reveals both some truths and blind spots.

Truth: it’s a lot easier to date if you don’t have kids.

People without children don’t have much of a concept of what it’s like to be tethered to home for feeding, napping, school, and extracurricular activities. Your life isn’t entirely your own.

The thing is: this isn’t news to anybody.

If you are confident, self-aware, have a high emotional IQ, a low tolerance for being mistreated and understand the opposite sex, you’re going to do well in relationships.

This just reveals your blind spot – you keep on choosing men without kids. And because you keep choosing men without kids, you’ve come to the conclusion that the Brady Bunch life is a fantasy. Hate to tell you, sweetie, but the reason that the Brady Bunch is NOT a fantasy is because both Mike and Carol HAD kids.

To be fair, you almost figure this out by the end of your email: “If he has (kids) too, then it’s like he can understand but he doesn’t want to pick up someone else’s slack.”

Pick up someone else’s slack?

He has his kids to raise. You have your kids to raise. He doesn’t have to pick up your slack. He has to understand that, as a parent, you need a little slack, because you don’t control your own schedule.

The tone of your email suggests that because I am a single guy who found love with a childless woman that my advice is invalid to you. That’s not remotely true.

Everyone likes to think her situation is particularly unique. It’s not.

Once people hit their mid-40s, tons of guys become available because that’s when the married-with-kids guys who got married in their 20s are divorcing, so suddenly you can date your peers again.

Advice for women over 50 is almost identical to advice for women under 50.

Advice for women who want kids is almost identical to advice for women who don’t.

If you are confident, self-aware, have a high emotional IQ, a low tolerance for being mistreated and understand the opposite sex, you’re going to do well in relationships.

That has nothing to do with kids or age or anything. If you understand 40-year-old men, you pretty much understand 60-year-old men. Men don’t change. But circumstances do. Which brings me to something that I’ve been sitting on for a few months and wanted to share here with you. It’s an update from my friend, Lori Gottlieb, author of “Marry Him,” my favorite relationship book. Writes Lori:

I’ve been dating someone for about six months. I guess I should change my Facebook “status” to “in a relationship” at some point, so I can stop being considered a “toxic maximizer” every time some guy asks me out. You should write a column about how once people hit their mid-40s, tons of guys become available because that’s when the married-with-kids guys who got married in their 20s are divorcing, so suddenly you can date your peers again. In my late 30s, I didn’t want divorced with kids, but once I had a kid and reached my mid-40s, divorced with kids was exactly what I wanted. So he’s 47 with 14-year-old twin girls. And then, of course, in the past year, all of these opportunities came about due to the demographic shift of an influx of 40-something men with kids getting divorced and not wanting to date women in their 30s who don’t have — but want — kids. They don’t want to go back to diapers at that age. And then there’s the financial investment of starting a second family. For all those reasons (not to mention, of course, my “charm”… ahem), I’m what these divorced-with-kids 40-something guys seem to be looking for. Fodder for your blog, perhaps?

Yes, Lori, it is fodder for my blog.

And it’s also my answer to your question, Joy.

Choose men with kids who “get” what you’re going through and you’ll be that much closer to developing a Brady Bunch family of your own.

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Comments:

  1. 61
    Sparkling Emerald

    General response to the topic of men who don’t see their kids, because of the ex.
    I know there are deadbeat dads, and I know there are bitter conniving ex-wives who use their children as a weapon against their ex husband.
    If a man came right and told me he didn’t want to have a relationship with his kids, or didn’t feel like he should have to pay child support, then of course, that would tell me all I need to know about his character, and I would have an easy decision to make.
    If he was indeed being torn away from his children by a vindictive ex, that would be heartbreaking. but that would also likely mean there was still lots of drama between him and his ex, and although I would be sympathetic, I don’t know if I would want to start a relationship with someone going through such drama.
    I abhor the way our court system allows ex-wives to keep their children from their father.  It’s horrid to the father, it’s horrid to the children.  I wish the courts would be as vigorous about enforcing visitation rights as they are about enforcing child support.
    Yes, I know there are probably reverse cases, where a bullying hubby manages to get the mother declared unfit and keep her from her children, and convince a family court judge to assist him.  But I think in most cases, men get the short end of the stick when it comes to child custody.

  2. 62
    John

     
    Sparkling Emerald @42
     
    Also, instead of criticizing her “big boring panties”, how about just telling her how fun it would be if she wrapped her cute little caboose in something lacy (or whatever)  from Victoria’s Secret ? You could show her what you like in a catalogue,  even a Target sale flyer has some cute lingerie you could show and tell her in a fun flirty way
     
    I did bring up the topic in a good way. After our 2nd time, we were getting dressed again and I told her she has such a sexy body and would she ever wear something more skimpy. That’s when she gave me the ‘moms don’t wear thongs” line. So I really doubt using your way would have changed her mind. I asked her in a complimentary way as a matter of discussion. As far as showing her a Target flyer with skimpy underwear? I don’t think it would have made a difference. If I used my approach or your approach she still would have delivered that classic line. Heck I even asked her “how about the bikinis with a full back that has the strings on the sides?” She laughed and thought I was just being silly. Next time I saw her, it was the same ‘ol boring stuff.

  3. 63
    JustMe

    Sparkling Emerald @ 61
     
    “I  know there are deadbeat dads, and I know there are bitter conniving ex-wives who use their children as a weapon against their ex husband.”
     
    +1
     
    I also know there are women who use their kids as weapon.  I know I don’t know the whole story either.  So I usually listen. 
     
    An real life example for Joe.
     
    I went on a first date with a man who was twice divorced.  He had two kids with wife #1 and two kids with wife #2.   In the course of conversation, he told me he had arranged to have all 4 kids on the same weekends.  (seeing his kids – good thing) and then he told me that his oldest child (a daughter) from wife #1 had asked if they could come on opposite weekends.  What he told me was that this comment made him so mad he wanted to punch her in the face.  The two sides are: he wants all his kids at the same time, she wants some time where she doesn’t have to share her dad with his other family.  His response, though, was troubling.  He continued to tell me that wife #1 was remarried and now he just played “uncle”.  His word.  I thought he meant he wasn’t there for the day to day dad stuff and just did the fun stuff.  But then he said he would be the dad to his kids with wife #2 until she remarried and then he would be “uncle” to those kids. 
     
    While you don’t know the whole situation, you can listen to what they say; they will reveal themselves. 
     

  4. 64
    Rose

    Feels sooo difficult to resist the temptation of being naughty of posting a pic of my bum in sweatpants that are slightly see through that show my cute boy boxers. Thank God I didn’t wear a thong when wearing those to the gym. lol Although I do love sexy silky thongs for the right outfit and occasion.
    Sometimes it feels difficult to behave.
     

  5. 65
    Frimmel

    If I seem negative about single mothers it is largely based on experience. I do my best to set that aside in each new circumstance. Often single mothers are just bad at the whole dating thing or just not as ready for it as they think.  In my experience single mothers are all the work of childless women along with a set of limitations created by caring for the children.
     
    And dating/pursuing a single mother for men comes with the implicit or at least infers acceptance of at some point being responsible for those children’s welfare should things work out. This is not to say being their father but you are going to be an adult in their lives. Depending on the age of the children you will quite possibly end up in some sort of no man’s land as neither a friend or parent or teacher or coach. Unless you are just going to have your relationship only when the children are with their father you aren’t just taking on one new relationship to pursue a woman with children.
     
    And if you’ve done all the time and invested in the woman and you’re ready to meet her kids and they despise you and she cuts you loose over it? Or decides it isn’t working after you’ve developed a relationship with those kids?
     
    And if you’re already a man who doesn’t see his own kids enough? Yes, nothing more on the line for you dating a single mom. /sarcasm font
     
    I’d also like to point out (since the whole beat dead dad trope has been dragged out) that a really important thing for me is whether or not the single mom expects and desires that her children spend time with their father as their father and not just with him as her babysitter. Your custody arrangement is also a reflection on you and on your character, not just on the children’s father.

  6. 66
    Ruby

    John #62
     
    So you stopped dating a woman who you liked, who you found very sexy, because you didn’t like her underwear? After sleeping with her 3 times? Talk about picky!
     
     
     

  7. 67
    Goldie

    @ Joe 55,
     
    Cannot answer your question, because this has never happened to me. I’ve never been on a date with a guy that didn’t ever see or support his children, whether it would be because he didn’t want to or because the ex wouldn’t let him. In my previous comment, I was referring more to the comments I’d seen on here a few times previously, that a divorced dad is somehow less valuable because a good portion of his paycheck goes towards child support and otherwise supporting his kids. These comments are coming from men more often than from women. From this woman’s standpoint, if a man spends time and money on his kids, especially if he spends extra and not just what the court has ordered, to me it’s an asset, not a liability.
     
    Several of my girl friends have ex-husbands that are deadbeat dads — always behind on child support, faking proof of income to pay lower child support, bailing on visitations an weekends with kids etc. All these men have new families and new kids, and I honestly don’t understand who would want them as husbands and fathers of their children. To me a husband like this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. If an ex doesn’t let a man see his children and has a court’s approval for that, I imagine I probably would really want to know why before I get serious with that man. Did he have physical abuse problems, substance abuse problems? why did she decide that he shouldn’t see his children and how did she manage to get this approved? it isn’t easy to get something like that through the court in our day and age, unless she had a very good reason. But like I said, this isn’t something that I ever had to deal with, so don’t really know the answer to your question.

  8. 68
    nathan

    I have dated single mothers before. I really didn’t have a lot of problems with scheduling, unrealistic expectations around money, or entitlement. This issue with clothing, which seems pretty trivial to me overall, can be viewed as a symbolic representation of divergent lifestyle philosophies. In John’s case, perhaps he’s more outgoing, active, and driven by excitement, whereas the woman he was dating was more content hanging around at home, doing simple activities, and having “vanilla” sex. No judgement on either end, just different approaches. You can find women and men in sweatpants and boring underwear anywhere – children are not needed for that.
     
    One thing I question, which someone else above mentioned, is the “kids always come first” attitude. In the short term, as you’re deciding about relationship potential and developing a connection, this is absolutely the right way to go. However, as a lifelong belief going forward, it’s problematic. No one wants to be treated second class all the time, and I do think this happens in some relationships with single parents (mothers and fathers).
     
    In some respects, I think this mentality is most prevalent amongst parents with young children, where much more direct care is required. However, even in my experience, I dated one single mother with two children under 10 and never felt like that was an issue. It helped a lot that she had a good extended family network, so that caring for every last need of the kids wasn’t on her shoulders. She is a great mother, and was a good partner while we were together. I really think that we as a society need to move beyond this idea that a mother or father (especially mothers) must devote every last ounce of energy to their kids in order to be “worthy.” So much of these conflicts over availability and competing needs would be lessened if we prioritized developing broader care circles for children, so that single parents (and married parents) wouldn’t be so alone in their work. People give lip service to the phrase “It’s takes a village,” but that’s about it.

  9. 69
    Fi

    @Nathan #68
    Just my 2 cents..
    I sort of think of the question you brought up is very similar to the one that a wife/gf may ask her husband/bf: who would you save if you mom and I both were drown? Of course no one like to be treated as a second class, however, to me, my baby is my family, a date or a boyfriend is not (yet). Plus I would assume I am dating a fully grown adults that can take care of himself in most of the occasions (but yeah we all need help sometimes.). I also think the love between two adults is different from the love between parents and children. 
    I guess that’s why how badly a guy broke up with his ex-gf isn’t that big of a issue to me (as long as there’s no physical violence)  comparing to a father abandoning his own children (big no-no).
    I, as a single mommy, just figure working full time, going to school part time, plus a baby really makes my schedule crazy (my family is overseas) and is not fair to anyone I date, so I’m taking a long break before I can finish my school. After all, if one has no time to devote the the other in a relationship, how would it work?
    Just my thoughts though, it’s interesting to see how people see things differently from different aspect :)

  10. 70
    Goldie

    @ Frimmel 65:
     
    “I’d also like to point out (since the whole beat dead dad trope has been dragged out) that a really important thing for me is whether or not the single mom expects and desires that her children spend time with their father as their father and not just with him as her babysitter. Your custody arrangement is also a reflection on you and on your character, not just on the children’s father.”
     
    I’d realistically, it’s a combination of both. Personally my kids are 17 and 20. They don’t need father-son time all that drastically. But I’ve been telling them all these years that their father needs time with them. The 20yo now comes home from college specifically on those weekends that he’s going to dad’s. That’s on one hand. On the other hand, hell yeah I have to admit it does feel good to have a house to myself (or to myself and my bf) for two nights a month. I would guess that most single moms feel the same way — that their ex needs time with the kids, kids need time with dad, and at the same time, she needs some time on her own too. Nothing wrong with that.
     
    Nathan, I hear you about extended families. I’ve been fortunate that my parents have been able to help out with the kids. As a result, they have all bonded with each other. Now my parents cannot help out anymore due to health issues, but all four of them still enjoy each other’s company.

  11. 71
    Andrea

    I haven’t read the comments but I kind of disagree. I’ve done both – date guys with and without kids. The guys with kids “get it” but then you get all their baggage plus your own – which in my case was significantly less than his – having an older “spirited” child was not something I wanted to sign my kids up to dealing with for their otherwise blissfully happy childhood years.
    Let me put it this way – someone with kids gets it. Someone without them may not but may be willing to. Neither is right nor wrong but you can’t assume all kid and parent-kid relationships are equal. I’ve met men who have their kids all but 3 hours per week (!) and others that have them only a few(!). This is not as easiliy explained as this post.
    Sorry, Evan, this is much more complex than you’re implying. I would never exclude a guy who has kids from my dating pool but I wouldn’t one without either. Both can work and have pros/cons.

  12. 72
    Sparkling Emerald

    John — First you said  “I asked her if she would wear some sexy underwear instead of the big boring ones (don’t play dumb you know exactly what those are Goldie). Her reply to me was “Moms don’t wear thongs”. Major turn off to me.
    ———————————————————————————————
    Then you contradicted yourself and said “After our 2nd time, we were getting dressed again and I told her she has such a sexy body and would she ever wear something more skimpy. That’s when she gave me the ‘moms don’t wear thongs” line.”
    ———————————————————————————————
    So which is it, did you compliment her body, or put down her “boring” underwear?
    Also, from this one experience you conclude that single moms wear boring underwear and non-Moms don’t ?
    Anyway, seems like a minor thing to me, since if you don’t like her undies, you can just take them off.  But if it’s a deal breaker for you, so be it.  I just hope you don’t get into any online lecturing of us female posters for “shrinking” our dating pool, for whatever criteria we have.

  13. 73
    Anita

    Weighing in on the underwear question. I would think that the so-called unattractive underwear would be sexiest: “OMG, would you please remove that unattractive underwear!” And thongs might actually be unsexy: “That thong is so darn attractive I hope you never take it off!” I know. Counter-intuitive.

  14. 74
    JB

    “Believe it or not, there are deadbeat dads out there”
    Yeah we believe it because one of them just won the 318 million dollar Powerball and he owed $29,000! I’m sure his baby momma forgives him now….LOL
    As far as the “underwear” thing. It doesn’t mean a thing to me. It’s who’s wearing the underwear that’s important. :-)

  15. 75
    Karmic Equation

    Thanks, Ladies, for all the replies regarding dating as a single parent. Having never had children, I couldn’t fully appreciate the complexity of dating as a single-mom until now. Kudos.

    Re: “mommy underwear” — I didn’t read John’s anecdote as he broke up with her because of it, but rather that her reply was unreceptive. And the replies of most ladies here sounded defensive, too. When a guy trusts you enough to tell you what he thinks and lets you know what he wants, an answer like “mommies don’t wear thongs” is a rude, like saying “shut up” without saying shut up. Had I been in that situation, I would have said, “You buy it, I’ll wear it” with a sassy wink. Make him put his money where his mouth is.

    If you don’t already own them, buy boy-shorts type underwear with the single seam vertically down the center (2-panels). Don’t buy the three-panel boy-shorts. Those create underwear lines. The 2-panel boy-shorts are just as good at thongs at eliminating underwear lines and are also hygenienic and comfortable, which thongs aren’t. I think all boy-shorts make a woman’s butt look sexy, but not all thongs do. But I’m not a guy, so I’m sure they’ll disagree. You can never go wrong with having a few pairs of thongs, though. You can’t help but be aware of your sexuality when you’re wearing them.

    The correlation to “mommy underwear” is a guy with tighty-whities. I think that is just soo UN-sexy! Boxers or boxer-briefs, thank you. If I make out with a guy and discover he’s wearing tighty-whities…there’s no next time. Does that make me superficial? Maybe. But I actually think guys who wear boxers are more sexually aware and less uptight than guys wearing tighty-whities. At least that has been my experience.

  16. 76
    Goldie

    @ 75, Karmic you bring up an interesting point. Do I find tighty-whities, or no manscaping whatsoever, in a man, to be a turn-off? Yup. Would I stop dating a guy based on that alone? No, I would’ve missed out on some quality people if I’d done that. Some guys are just so awesome all around, they can get away with wearing tighty-whities, because their good qualities outweigh that one bad one by far. At least that’s been my experience :)

  17. 77
    Karmic Equation

    @Goldie 76

    Well, I have to admit my superficiality with the tighty-whities was relatively recent, i.e., after my divorce (around 7 years ago). Exhubby was a tighty-whities guy and had converted himself to boxers about year 3 into our marriage. I actually didn’t care (or noticed) about tighty-whitiies before him.

    After my divorce, younger men started hitting on me. That’s when I discovered manscaping. I have to admit that now when men my age hit on me, I notice if they shave their unibrows and keep their nosehair trimmed. If they have hair showing out of their nostrils and between their eyes, I pretty much guess they’re not manscaped elsewehere. One of the things I do when men hit on me is ask myself can I see myself having a physical relationship with them. I’ll you, when I ask myself these questions, my mind shows me the stray hair between the eyebrows and the overlong nosehairs, and shrieks, NOOOO… even if I *know* they are quality people.

    Does that mean I’ll miss out on quality men, I know I have and will. But there are many more fish in the sea, so why not find ones you can see yourself be intimate with.

    Just to clarify, I wasn’t trying to imply women in mommie-underwear lacked personality or good points. And I wasn’t saying it was ok to stop datind them because of it. But rather admitting to my own superficiality.

  18. 78
    marymary

    Karmic
    Hanky Panky lace thongs are comfortable, flattering and one size fits most so
    John,
    you can give them as a gift.  

  19. 79
    JustMe

    I like my cheekies.  tried the thong, tried the boy short, tried the cheekies – sold!
     

  20. 81
    John

    Sparkling Emerald @72
    So which is it, did you compliment her body, or put down her “boring” underwear?
     
    I don’t know where your confusion lies. I did both. She had a good body and boring underwear and I mentioned both.  Not sure what’s so difficult to comprehend.  
     
    Karmic Equation @75
    Had I been in that situation, I would have said, “You buy it, I’ll wear it” with a sassy wink. Make him put his money where his mouth is.
     
    That would have been a great answer. I love lingerie shopping with the girl I am with. I have done that on numerous occasions where we go together where we (with heavy influence from me) pick something out and I pay for it. I would never go into one of those stores by myself though and buy them. I have gotten a girl a gift card from VS though. The only caveat is that it has to be used for some skimpy stuff- not a “Love Pink” sweatpants.

  21. 82
    Sparkling Emerald

    John 81
    “I don’t know where your confusion lies. I did both. She had a good body and boring underwear and I mentioned both.  Not sure what’s so difficult to comprehend. ”
    ——————————————–
    Well there you go.  You ruined a compliment by wrapping it in an insult.  (or maybe you tried to soft pedal an insult by wrapping it in a compliment)
    EMK, is always cautioning women to NOT put men down, critisize.  (IOW, don’t give a rant about you hate texting, just say you’d like to hear the sound of his voice)  Very good advice, and you know what ?  It works both ways. 
    It reminds me of a boyfriend in my 20’s.  I got a new shag haircut, and he said he loved my new hair cut.  (Good thing)  Then he had to ruin the compliment by saying that it was about time I did something with that scraggly hair of mine. (BTW, it wasn’t “scraggly”  just long, all one length and parted in the middle.  Always kept trimmed , shampooed and conditioned)  So un-nessesary, he could have just said he loved the new do, without putting down the old do.
    I wasn’t there, so I don’t know her voice tone, when she made the “Moms don’t wear thongs” comment, but if it was indeed snooty, well, you insulted her, so don’t be surprised at her snooty come back.
    Me, I’m a mom, and I don’t where thongs (unless you are talking about shoes), but if I think there’s a good chance someone cute will be viewing and/or removing my undies, I ditch the big boring ones, and go for the cute little ones. In fact, buying a new lingerie wardrobe is one of my favorite parts of a being in a new relationship. 
     
     

     

  22. 83
    Jennifer

    I think the point of the thong comment was to illustrate why some guys don’t like to date some Mom’s- they take their Mom identity and bring it to unnecessary places- like their lingerie choices. Not all Mom’s do this of course, but I think it’s a point well taken.

  23. 84
    Sparkling Emerald

    Jennifer – ONE remark from ONE mom about “Mom’s not wearing thongs” in response to an insult,  is hardly indicative of all moms.  Moms and non-Moms alike wear “boring” underwear, Moms and non-Moms alike where lacy, silky, poika-dot, see thru, bikinis.  The only thing I can think of that would influence a mom’s choice of underwear is the wear and tear childbirth had on her body.  If she has really bad stretch marks and is conscientious of them, then she might hide them behind her lingerie.  Can hardly blame them on that point.  Men these days do seem to be going over women with a fine tooth comb, both physically and personality wise, looking for a reason to eliminate them.  At first I thought I was just imagining that, but there is a book “Have Him at Hello” (I think that’s the title) where a matchmaker did “exit” interviews with men who did not call women back for a second date, and she admits that men are like this.  I didn’t read the whole book, but from what I read,  I almost wanted to give up, right then and there.  Really, she painted a picture of men as very petty and impossible to please.  But really, it is just a book, and somewhere in the Universe there has to be a man who just wants to connect with a woman, and not put her through some audition, where even the slightest mistake (or personality quirk, or wrong body language, or the wrong underwear, ) means she won’t be cast in the role of his leading lady.
    I think dating mom has it’s problems (as with dating single dads to an extent) mostly being scheduling difficulties, the kids coming first, etc.  I think underwear would be very low on the list of “things that are wrong with single Moms” unless someone wants a relationship that is purely sexual.

  24. 85
    Karmic Equation

    Sparkling #82
    It reminds me of a boyfriend in my 20′s.  I got a new shag haircut, and he said he loved my new hair cut.  (Good thing)  Then he had to ruin the compliment by saying that it was about time I did something with that scraggly hair of mine.
     
    While you may not have taken it that way, your bf was showing you affection (I’m assuming his tone wasn’t derogatory, but perhaps light and flavored with a touch of sarcasm). Think of it as a grown-up equivalent of pulling a girl’s pigtails to indicate that he likes her.
     
    Jennifer #83
    I agree with your conclusion, that mom’s bring their mom identities to their underwear. But I don’t think men are think that deeply :) I got the feeling the turn-off from John was her unreceptiveness to his idea and her answer precluded further discussion. That was the real turn-off, her rudeness and lack of openness and lack of appreciation for his candor.

  25. 86
    Ruby

    Sparkling #84
     
    “The only thing I can think of that would influence a mom’s choice of underwear is the wear and tear childbirth had on her body. ”
     
    I hadn’t thought of that, but I suspect you might be right. Women can be quite self-conscious about these things. Asking a woman to wear skimpier underwear when she’s self-conscious about her stretchmakrks or tummy fat could have prompted her reaction. I don’t think either party meant to be “rude”, but I can see how it might have come across that way.
     
    Blaming the other person for their boring underwear or any other lack of perfection is a good way to avoid any issues the other party might have with commitment. Heaven forbid that it could be the criticizer who has the problem!

  26. 87
    Karmic Equation

    Sparkling & Ruby
    Hmmmm…He’s already having sex with her, more than once, I imagine, if he feels comfortable enough to indicate his preference in lingerie. So he’s ALREADY SEEN her stretch marks or belly fat if she has them. And he’s still having sex with her, so that wasn’t the problem.
     
    @Sparkling #82
    …but if I think there’s a good chance someone cute will be viewing and/or removing my undies, I ditch the big boring ones, and go for the cute little ones.
     
    I doubt this particular mom was having a one-night stand sex with John. And no man mentions a woman’s underwear if it was an ONS sex–he’s just psyched to get that far. So I think we can safely say that this mom was on a DATE with John first, so she should already have been wearing her non-mommie lingerie. Whether or not it was in her plans to sleep with him that night, she should have dressed from the skin out with the date in mind, to put herself in the right mood for a date. She was unreceptive at the least and rude at worst.
     
    As to the Have Him at Hello book, again, you missed the point. It isn’t that men are pickly, but rather than MOST reasons that men don’t date a woman for a second time is WITHIN the woman’s control. Meaning if she were self-aware, and yes, CRITICAL OF HER OWN BEHAVIOR, she might be able to make the adjustments so that she can get that 2nd date with the man she finds attractive.
     
    No one is perfect, but just as you wouldn’t tell your interviewer to shut up or wear your foot-thongs on a job interview and expect to be hired, you shouldn’t be anything less than feminine and receptive if you’re looking for a relationship.

  27. 88
    Ruby

    Karmic #87
     
    “He’s already having sex with her, more than once, I imagine, if he feels comfortable enough to indicate his preference in lingerie. ”
     
    He mentioned his preference on the second date, so I’m not sure how great a comfort level had been established at that point. So actually, barely more than a ONS). He did write that he stopped seeing her, although I don’t know if there were other reasons, as he doesn’t say. Also, it doesn’t matter how comfortable he is, if she isn’t.
     
    I can’t comment much on the book, since I haven’t read it, but I’m sure that women could write their own book about why they don’t go out with guys a second time too.

  28. 89
    Ruby

    Oh, not second date, but second time they had sex.

  29. 90
    John

    Sparkling Emerald @84
    I think dating mom has it’s problems (as with dating single dads to an extent) mostly being scheduling difficulties, the kids coming first, etc.  I think underwear would be very low on the list of “things that are wrong with single Moms” unless someone wants a relationship that is purely sexual.
     
    With this Mom who I dated for 4 months, there were a lot of things I compromised on. For instance: no sex if I went to her place and the kids were home because she was afraid they might hear, many Saturday nights without sleeping over if her ex didn’t have the kids, constant interrupting phone calls and texts (the kids were 12 and 14) when they were at their Dads if we went to dinner or the movies. So if I dealt with all of that, then I thought it would be fair to ask for some skimpy underwear whenever we were able to have alone time. So while underwear type is low on your priority list, it is high on mine if I am making a ton of other sacrifices simply because she is a Mom.
     
    Jennifer and Karmic Equation- thanks for understanding the guy’s point of view.

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