How Do I Date After My Divorce If I Think All Women Are Gold Diggers?

Evan – First, I’d like to thank you and everyone who posts on your blog. Now that I’m back in dating mode, I can use all the help I can get. You recently addressed the issue of how to get over a broken heart. Well when some relationships end, there is not only a broken heart but also a devastating financial impact which naturally has an adverse effect upon one’s emotions. The advice for a broken heart is usually a mixture of “give it some time”, “he/she wasn’t the right one for you”, and “find a new BF/GF.” Over time, the pain dissipates, and if someone is reluctant to start a new relationship because of fear of being hurt again, then the “is it better to have loved and lost than never to have loved” words start flowing. It’s all good advice and most people, myself included, are able to dust ourselves off and enter into a new relationship after an appropriate amount of time. The broken heart I have dealt with. The “broken bank account,” however, is a problem that I have to deal with for the remainder of my life.

 

My ex was awarded 50% of savings/pension/etc. – no problem. I pay child support – no problem. I have to pay permanent alimony until the day one of us passes away – Big Problem! One of your posters mentioned removing all reminders of an ex as a way to ease the heartbreak. I cannot remove the reminder of sending my ex a substantial check every month. My plan to switch careers after the divorce was derailed because the alimony is based on my earnings potential. My plan to retire is a dream because my state does not recognize voluntary retirement as a valid reason to decrease an alimony award.

I have two issues. The immediate concern is I keep meeting women who basically live a life of leisure due to winning the alimony lottery. Once I realize their source of income, I lose all respect for them and view them as gold diggers and opportunists. Yet part of me realizes I shouldn’t view them this way because they’re only taking advantage of the laws of the state (the McDonald’s hot coffee in the lap scenario just popped into my mind.) I’ve been so turned off by the initial alimony disclosure that I never pursue the relationships further. I think alimony might be warranted based on the circumstances, but how should I dig a little deeper to find out if she is a money grubbing lotto winner or someone who truly deserves the alimony?

 

I would love to find “the one” and eventually re-marry, yet the practical side of me is extremely risk averse. It’s hard enough to enter into a relationship knowing your heart might be broken some day. After getting ^&* by the courts and the ex, it is extremely difficult to deal with the possibility that I might end up paying alimony to two women for life. Any advice other than find a rich woman or insist on a prenup? By the way, if this is posted on your blog I’d love to hear from some women who are paying alimony as well as the views of some women who are receiving alimony.

–Jaded Man

 

Dear Jaded,

This is an important question and I’m not going to muck it up by writing a long-winded answer. All I will say is this before I let our readers have a go:

Unless you want to protect yourself from finding love ever again, you’re better off not interrogating your dates, no matter how much you want to.

Emotionally, you are no different than the woman who had her husband cheat on her. You’ve trusted, you’ve been burned, and it’s hard not to judge each new woman by the unfortunate standards set by your ex. But I’ll tell you the same thing I tell every woman who doesn’t trust: “The next woman has nothing to do with the last woman.” They’re independent rolls of the dice.

And unless you want to protect yourself from finding love ever again, you’re better off not interrogating your dates, no matter how much you want to.

If I’m a woman, it’s not my fault that your wife sucked you dry, and I shouldn’t have to pay the emotional price for it. I shouldn’t be treated like a common criminal. I shouldn’t spend a second thinking about what she did to you. All I can do is show you, in word, and in deed, that my heart is in the right place. Beyond that, you just have to trust.

I think your story is very relevant to this blog, my friend, for two reasons:

1)   To show the man’s side of the story. Even as an advocate for women, I am VERY sympathetic to you and don’t think that divorce is fair to men. Division of assets and life time alimony is a very good reason why a man would not want to be married ever again and it would be hard to reason otherwise with him.

2)   To show women readers who reflexively think that you should give women a break that they’re being hypocritical. It’s easy to sit here and tell you to trust, Jaded Man; it’s a lot harder for them to let a man into their hearts and believe that the right man will do the right thing.

All I can do is stress that you should choose a partner based on character over intense physical chemistry.

It’s even harder to tell both men and women that there are no guarantees in life. If my wife takes off one day because she falls in love with another man, demands half of my money and custody of our daughter, I’d be shocked and devastated – but there would have been nothing I could have done to prevent it.

All I can do is stress that you should choose a partner based on character over intense physical chemistry. If you do that, you’ll be unlikely to find yourself in this awful position once again.

Let’s see what women have to say about it, but I think it would be hard to be unsympathetic to your travails. Really. It’s the worst nightmare of most guys and our women readers would be well-served to be sensitive to this reality…

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Cindy

    This is so true.  I find that I meet a lot of men that want to make me pay the emotional price for their last “bad” marriages/relationships.
    I came out of a very abusive relationship and a failed marriage.  I had to come to terms that none of it was my fault and I was a “survivor” of circumstances.
    Althought it’s hard, when I date I have to remind myself that the next guy is not these past guys.  We have no control of our heartbreaks in the future and we should enjoy the moments because in any bad relationship there are lessons and good times we have just clouded over with all the bad stuff that has happened.
    There are good women and men out there! 🙂 I believe!

    1. 1.1
      rawr

      you chose an abusive man to marry and have kids with. that’s not “none of it was my fault”. only healthy divorced women i know are the ones who’ve taken accountability and accepted that they had an equal part in their relationship, and that it wasn’t just a natural disaster that happened when she mad a bad choice.

      1. 1.1.1
        Lily

        Let’s not beat up on this woman who has already been abused. Many abusers do not show their true colors for a while, or for a very long time. Many women have been in multi-decade relationships in which the original controlling behavior only escalated into outright abuse in the last few years. Systematic, gradually escalating abuse robs a woman of the support of her friends and family as the abuser makes her world very small and dependent on him and his whims. (One of my divorced friends had a husband who would not allow her, a woman with a master’s degree and a good career, to have a facebook page! And she was so beaten down by that time that she accepted this rule of his.)  And, very few abusers are entirely bad people… or no one would ever marry them!

        Blaming, shaming comments aren’t helpful. Really. Ever.

      2. 1.1.2
        Rose

        Maybe you should read about narcissism. 🙂

    2. 1.2
      JIM

      ROFL…. ‘none of it was my fault’…. come on now. you’ll keep doing the same mistakes over and over again and get nowhere if you really believe that you were perfect and your ex was 100% in the wrong. surprise! it can be quite maddening living with and trying to deal with someone who believes themselves to be perfect! how much of your ex’s conduct was really malevolently driven abuse, and how much of it was losing self-control in the face of overwhelming emotional provocation? you women always want to play the victim. if i had a video tape of your life i’m sure it wouldn’t take me long to pick you apart. but the main point of what i want to say is that what you need to do is learn…not from your ex’s mistakes but from your own.  it doesn’t matter if what he did was worse than what you did. that’s little kid arguments. ‘little johhny has more orange juice in his cup than i do!’ you still had a part to play and your romantic ventures won’t ever improve until you learn to take stock of the MISTAKES YOU MADE. is it worse that he back-handed you when you mouthed-off to him? sure. there’s no excuse for violence. but does that mean you were right to provoke him? no don’t be stupid. or just go on thinking you’re perfect and see where that gets you.

  2. 2
    Ganesha

    I am 35 woman, professional and south European and in my country there is no life-time alimony, which I find terrible, by the way. Here the father should pay the alimony for the children until they are certain age, and this would depend on the age children finish their studies. If there are no children, there is no alimony whatsoever.

    However, coming back to the main question, I still find that men after divorce are quite challenging. My last “relationship” (I now think it was an imaginary one) was with a divorced guy with two children and 9 years older than me. Despite sharing a lot of think such as way of life, values, hobbies, etc., we found after one year that he still loved very much his ex wife. So here I am mending my broken heart and starting over again (being happy with myself, family and friends, dating again). My ex friend is terrified about starting a relationship and feels he’s cheating his ex wife. An ex wife that has now a new relationship, but for him, he’s the ideal mother, woman, lover, etc. I was just a pet (friend, personal shopper and nothing else) in his personal life and admit that I would take risk with men again but in a careful way. A divorced man has a family, so it is not the same as a single man. That means that a divorced guy could be reluctant to start a family with someone and could have issues (emotional+financial) from his past.
    But this is life, and as Jaded Man said: It is better to have love and lost, that have never loved. I truly think I can still have the family I deserve.
     

    1. 2.1
      rawr

      honestly i’d rather have never loved at all, and rather not desire love in the first place, all it’s done is create problems.

      1. 2.1.1
        MonkMode

        Yea its not worth it.  Women arent capable of love.  Only lust, envy, greed, sloth, malice, gluttony and pride.  Love is when you care more about a person then you do your own self.  Women dont care about anyone more then they care about themselves.  Not even their own children.  If they did abortion wouldbe illegal and women would never even consider it.   Heres how I avoid gold diggers.  I dont get hair cuts, shave or dress nice.  I dont buy women drinks dinners or anything else. When a woman asks me what I do for a living I tell her that I dont want to talk about work.  If she presses the issue I walk away.  I let women know right away that I wont date a girl unless she makes substancially more than I do and is willing to be the sole breadwinner in the relationship.  Marriage and children are out of the question.  The fact is once you realize that women have only one thing to offer(sex) then their value can only be equal to the value you assign to having sex with them.  At this point in my life, that value is zero.  So untill some affluent divorce decides to shower me with gifts, money and everything else I could possibly want I’ll go my own way quietly and peacefully enjoying the sanctity of the peace and quiet that exists in my world now that I am not attached to some trifleing and screeching harpies.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Sounds like you’re doing women a great favor by opting out of the dating world.

          By the way, a “peaceful” man would not write such a hateful and misogynist screed on a site geared to women.

        2. JIM

          come on evan… don’t be such a white knight. he’s entitled to his pain and his opinion. one day he’ll move past this phase. but let’s be real too… he has a point to a degree. women do get abortions… not men. women do initiate 90% of divorces. these days, men are the ones fighting to keep the family together. and it’s mainly thanks to feminism. it’s now socially acceptable to have sex outside of marriage. so men only get married when they really want to, not from social pressure. it’s the disgruntled wives who didn’t get the life they thought they were promised, who leave and take the kids. a REAL man takes care of himself. he doesn’t need a woman to provide financial benefit to him. i’m single. own my own home mortgage free at the young age of 34. nice car. i don’t need a woman to help pay the bills or do my laundry. so in a pragmatic sense, i do really only NEED a woman for one thing…to fulfill my very real biological sexual needs. what’s wrong with that? women…many women… are give permission to hunt for rich men to ‘take care of them’. history has proven that. so what’s wrong with men only NEEDING women for sex? now wanting… that’s something else. i have a LOT of things i want a woman for. but that’s something else. we’re talking about needs.

        3. JIM

          evan, i’d also like to point out, that these days it seems like it’s either implicitly, or even in some cases explicitly stated, that in the modern age people DESERVE to have a loving, fulfilling relationship with the opposite sex. in my opinion, if we all got what we deserved i don’t think any of us would be happy. if we can start from a point of accepting that we don’t deserve ANYTHING good, then we can WORK towards a good relationship with someone that we don’t deserve to be with. and we can feel lucky to have them in our lives even if not every aspect of that person satisfies our whims like a high dollar buffet. you gotta stop white-knighting for women and help them come down to earth a bit. that will actually help them be more successful in getting what they want.

        4. Misty

          Guys like Jim are what I was talking about — put women on a pedestal and then turn bitter when they turn out to be flawed. He talks as if it’s some injustice that women are not perfect even though it’s fine for men to be imperfect. Srsly if I were swearing off men and relationships, you wouldn’t find me spending time venting on a men’s dating blog. Protest too much?

        5. MonkMode

          I am a peaceful man.  But that doesnt mean I am an idiot or that I am blind to the true nature of women.  As a man I have a natural desire to be loved.  Since women are incapable of love what could a woman possibly have to offer me?  Sex?  Sure, but I dont need sex. I can “handle” that myself.  So what is the insentive to persue a woman?  Their is none.  Only danger.  Does that mean I am a mysoginist?  Of course not.  I dont hate women any more then I hate poisonous tree frogs.  But that doesnt mean I’d be willing to lick them.  That would be self destructive.  Your insinuation is that unless I am willing to sacrifice my health, wealth and happiness for a moist gash I must be a hateful mysoginist.  That says more about you then it does me.  I am a realist.  I have weighed the potential rewards against the probable risks.  The situation is hopeless.  The risks are absolute and there are no rewards to speak of.  So why should any man bother?  Furthermore why should any man feel ashamed of himself for choosing to avoid associating with people that are simultaneously incapable of loving him and fully capable(and willing) to abort his kids and destroy everything hes worked for his whole life.  He should not.  Thats not hate.  Thats just good sense.  No emotion required.  I dont need to hate someone to understand that its not in my best interest to associate with them.  If it was legal for men to murder their children would you fault women for choosing celibacy to protect the lives of their future children?  Of course not.  But you attack me for choosing to protect myself from the predatory tactics of women.  What is your motivation?  Are you just white knighting like Jim claims?  Or is it something even more sinister that drives you?

        6. Evan Marc Katz

          Ugh. Such bad arguments here. The fact that you actually believe that you are sacrificing your health, wealth and happiness for women means that you’re already in the fact free zone since studies show that married men are healthier, wealthier and happier than single men. Add in the fact that you see the only value of a woman in her “moist gash,” and, well, ugh. It doesn’t take a white knight to observe that you, sir, have some unhealthy beliefs and are better off staying away from women. Let’s just call it a win/win.

        7. Katie

          @Monkmode – You’re a sociopath and you need professional help.

        8. MonkMode

          Just saying my arguments are bad does nothing to disprove or invalidate them.  You are just begging the question.  You didn’t address any point I made.  If my arguments were so ‘bad’ you should be able to easily disprove them.  But you didn’t even make an attempt.  Because I’m right.  Abortion is proof of the worthlessness of women and women are whores.  Case closed.  I am not ashamed of recognizing this.  I am not angry or hateful about it.  I just accept it.  It is just the way it is.  Does that mean I should settle for a gold digging whore that will ruin me just to satiate my primal urge to have sex?  Hell no.  Like I said I don’t need sex.  Just because sex is all women offer doesn’t mean that’s all a man should want from a woman.  It’s just all they are willing to offer.  No Big deal.  There are plenty of men that will settle.  I’m just not one of them.  And Im not a sociopath.  I am fully capable of empathy.  Which is why I am able to understand the nature of women.  It’s not complicated.  Women want things and they are willing to spread their legs to get what they want.  It’s not quantum physics.  Its supply and demand.  Don’t act so surprised that the demand for pussy is dropping faster then the demand for beanie babies.  When you are so specialized as to offer only a single product market shifts can cripple your whole business.  Women sell pussy.  That’s a fact.  Don’t hate me because I’m not in the market anymore.  The market is saturated and the prices are ridiculous.  You made a poor investment.  Hate yourself.  I didn’t do it.

      2. 2.1.2
        Lilly

        I think monk is trolling you Evan.

  3. 3
    Sayanta

    that’s such a sad story- I saw a lot of it working in court though. I realize that it’s natural to want companionship, but I’m not sure Jaded Man should even be dating- maybe this should be a time of introspection and soul-searching on his own before he even considers dating. You don’t want to end up like another Paul McCartney/Heather Mills casualty.

  4. 4
    Ruby

    I’ve never been married, so I don’t get alimony. I have other never-married female friends who fully support themselves. I have divorced friends who also don’t get it, and never did, especially if they weren’t married very long. Plenty of women don’t get alimony, or get child support and no alimony. Why not look at women like us who either haven’t been married and/or have successful (or at least successful-enough) careers, and don’t need to rely on that?

    And be sure that you re actually ready to move on. Sometimes we unconsciously pick partners who are like our previous partners because we haven’t resolved the past relationship yet. We end up with the same issues because we’re not ready to move forward. And then you can sit back and say that “all women are after my money, just like my ex…” If you “keep meeting these women” perhaps it’s because you are not ready to look for someone who is different?

    1. 4.1
      MonkMode

      No man(unless hes wealthy and is just using them for quick and easy sex) goes out looking for gold diggers.  How do I know?  Men dont have to look for them.  They are everywhere.  No matter how much money a woman makes they ALL want a man that makes more then them.  Sure some women get stuck with a man that doesnt make as much as they do.  But that doesnt mean they want him to.   They just settled.  It is written into women’s genetic code to chase resources.  Thats no secret.  Sure, if pressed, women will fervently deny that they are gold digging whores but their denial is only to the degree with which their whorish behavior plays out in real world scenarios.  One woman may be willing to date a man that makes 40k a year, but she barely makes 20k.  So she is still bargaining up.  Its called hypergamy and it is absolute proof to anyman looking for love that he is wasting his time. Women want.  They do not love.  So all they offer is sex.  If thats all you want from a relationship thats fine.  But if you want to be loved adopt a puppy.  Because women dont do that anymore.  Now they just mooch off men until they get pregnant.  Then they either abort the baby and start banging the next in line or they birth the baby and start banging the next guy in line while collecting child support from the last one.  No thank you.  I’d rather enjoy my life.  There is alot of fun things to do in this world when you arent crippled by the burden of a soul sucking leech thats pretending to care about you.  Modern entertainment is diverse and the urge to have sex is easily quelled through masterbation.   One doesnt need to be a rocket scientist to see that being a single sexually inactive man is a great way to live.  Hell even women recognize this.  Why do you think they have no respect for white knight manginas that put women on a pedestal.  It reveals an utter lack of cognitive reason when a men gets married.  Its no wonder wives show their husbands such disrespect.  Hes obviously a fucking tool otherwise he wouldnt have married her.  Women know what they are.  They are sexual predators.  Men are their prey.  White knights are like the fish that jump into the boat.

  5. 5
    Mel

    I’m divorced too, had an incredibly emotionally and mentally abusive marriage.  I’m raising my toddler on my own with no child support. 

    In my last relationship, the guy actually had trust issues because his ex-fiance manipulated him.  He took it out on me and I eventually left.  Unlike him, I dealt with many of my issues from my marriage and consciously make an effort not to take it out on others.  Actually, it’s a continuous work in progress.  You have to continuously remind yourself that not all fingers are the same.

    Everybody who has gone through such a psychologically and emotionally devastating relationship really need to take the time to heal and self-reflect.  Learn from it.  It’s not fair to take it out on a new person who is truly innocent and should not be held responsible for whatever happened in your past.

  6. 6
    SS

    While I know this could never happen, I would love it if there was a law against folks getting involved in new relationships less than a year after the divorced papers are signed.  🙂
     
    Divorce is tough. I don’t think people realize that until they’re going through it. Even when they hate their ex’s guts and even in cases where one could show the ex is totally in the wrong, the destruction of a marriage is a painful thing — even at times when it needs to be done.
     
    I can’t speak for divorced women, but I dated a number of men who had recently gotten out of marriages. I don’t know why they were so attracted to me — maybe I was younger, sympathetic, a good therapist/counselor type — but I always drew these guys. And then I would begin falling for them… and right as that happened, they’d pull away, saying that I was a great woman and all, but our growing closeness made them realize that they really weren’t ready for another serious relationship.
     
    None of them wanted to get back with their ex-wives (and they didn’t), but they simply were not over the dissolution of their marriages. Regardless of how much they thought they were… and they ALL thought they were!
     
    So I just stopped bothering with them.
     
    In the case of this guy, he’d be a classic one I’d stay away from, even though I wouldn’t have been in the category of divorced women (with or without alimony). Just the fact that he’s putting up barriers already — i.e., “I’ll date someone, but it’s going to go the way I want it this time so that it doesn’t end up like my marriage” — is not the beginning of a healthy relationship.

    1. 6.1
      JIM

      there is a big movement away from legal marriages, especially for second marriages because of trust and financial issues. many people still want to have a connection and share with family and friends, and be married in ‘god’s eyes’… which i think for most people that’s all they really care about. i never understood why it’s so important to make it legal. it does make things more complicated and in a lot of cases, creates a motive to go ahead and dissolve a relationship instead of make it work, when things look bad. people lack commitment because in the back of their mind, in a very small place they have tucked away, they have this secret little ‘under these conditions…i can accept a divorce’. let me tell you, when i was in a WAR ZONE… REAL COMBAT… and no amount of wishing was going to change ANYTHING…. my thinking began to adapt to my situation. one night i found myself walking back to my hootch and it dawned on me… even with machine guns and bombs going off in the background, i had become totally accustomed to my environment. even to this day it has become part of me and i have a bit of nostalgia from time to time- in an admittedly perverted kind of way. but until to married people actually integrate to the point where they both believe that there is NO GETTING OUT… each will eventually try to make power plays and one-up each other until the marriage falls apart. it’s only until both people accept that the marriage is FOREVER that you can actually start to have peace and get along. you learn to adapt to each other instead of resisting each other.

      1. 6.1.1
        MonkMode

        Well put.  Women will never do this.  Women are so ultra-priveledged in this country they truly believe they can do anything they want at any time with no reprecautions.  They never internally commit to anything.  They dont have to.  A womans “right” to choose is absolute.  They can choose anything and at anytime if they choose to they can change their mind and choose something else.  They are nothing but spoiled children.  They arent worth a man’s time.

  7. 7
    Cate

    No one’s answered his first question: how to avoid thinking of his ex every month. One small thing that could help is to set up a recurring payment at his bank’s online bill-paying page and then ignore it. If you keep a check register, just write something neutral like “bank transfer”, not her name, not “alimony”, not even “ex”.
    On a more facetious note: retire to Costa Rica… they don’t extradite!

    1. 7.1
      nk

      Alimony is wrong 90% of the time ESPECIALLY life time alimony. Why on earth are women asking for money from their ex after they have split, it makes NO sense. Where is their self worth? Independence? If I wanted out why would I want to be connected to my ex years afterwards? Women really need to think about the moral issue with this too. Transitional support for a limited time. Sure. Child Support. Sure. Equal division of assets.  Depends on circumstance.

  8. 8
    Sally

    The more my ex-husband hears stories like this (Alimony for life? WTH?) the more he realizes what a peach of an ex-wife I am. 🙂

  9. 9
    Steve

    Jaded;
    Get to the know the woman.
     

    Is she working or doing something that will enable her to eventually take care of herself?
     
    IMO, American divorce laws are out of date.   If children are not involved alimony should be about enabling people to support themselves who lost that ability as a result of marriage.   Once that person can take care of themselves alimony should end.
     

    On the one hand you see articles about women not needing men financially, men not going to college as much, women earning more, men earning less and that causing problems with people hooking up.   On the other hand, you still come across many experiences like Jaded’s.   Different people have different paths through life, so I think it is possible for both sets of things to be a reality.   It is just interesting to see the diversity of roles that women as a group can be comfortable with.   With the exception of a minorty, I think most men would feel very self conscious about letting someone support them.
     
    EMK wrote:
    Emotionally, you are no different than the woman who had her husband cheat on her.
    I realize this sounds crass.  A woman who has been cheated on can eventually recover.   Someone like Jaded is financially crippled for life.  Dreams and hopes permanently canceled.

    1. 9.1
      rawr

      a woman screwing over a man usually is a lot worse consequences than a man screwing a woman.

    2. 9.2
      Lily

      I am eligible for alimony for the rest of my life if I choose to remain unmarried.  I stayed home while my children’s father worked two jobs (he was going to work two jobs anyway, and someone needed to raise the children). The court recognizes that I sacrificed my job with a 401K, health insurance, and a good salary, to raise the children.

      Yes, my ex will perhaps pay alimony for life. But he also has children who are polite, respectful, socially adept, honest, thoughtful, and do well in school because they were raised by a former teacher who made a home where groups of friends were welcome and well fed. I observed my children from a young age interacting with the other children and would help them learn how to get along with others. I taught them how to introduce themselves to new people, and I taught them the essence of good manners, which is helping to make the other person feel comfortable. I taught them the essence of charm, which is to display a genuine interest in others and to ask questions and really listen to them. My son was the student council president in his high school, and my daughter was a cheerleader and the homecoming queen. (of their own volition, I never pushed them to be something they are not.) They are both wonderful people.

      He made a financial sacrifice, and so did I. I will NEVER recover financially from the almost 20 years I took off work to be a stay-at-home parent. He earns FIVE TIMES as much as I do. I have had to re-enter the workforce at  a much lower wage than I earned twenty years ago.

      It is easy for him to view himself as financially disadvantaged, but even with alimony, my lifestyle is much less financially secure than his. And, he refuses to help our children in college. The courts in California will not rule on any child support/college support past the age of 18, so in essence many of us women collecting “alimony” are using it to help our children through college, so it essentially is child support, because college students are rarely even close to self-supporting.

      Every time he refuses to help our children, it strengthens my resolve to never remarry and continue to collect alimony and continue to help the children for the rest of my life.  Every time he takes an expensive vacation with the children, which he can afford to do since I am helping them on college expenses and he doesn’t, it strengthens my resolve to continue to collect alimony. I want to take a vacation with my children some day, too!

      1. 9.2.1
        nk

        You should get alimony until you are able to support yourself with your own job. Why do you want a constant reminder of your ex husband? why are you taking money that is NOT  yours? Why do you want to be dependent on someone else? where is your sense of independence or respect? That last paragraph shows us that you are only taking his money because you ae not happy with his behaviour. How immature. So you dont like his behaviour? once your divored you don’t have any right to ‘get back at him’ by being petty and relying on his money to hurt him financially. Its really petty and pathetic. You may have brought up some well rounded children, but your stuck in revenge mentality and display entitlement that other women hate being associated with. Get some self respect and develop your own wealth income. Don’t be a parasite who is bitter about her ex’s less than favourable behaviour.

      2. 9.2.2
        Buck25

        Lily,

        I’m not going to argue the merits of what you”deserve” or “don’t deserve”, or whether or not you have a right to be that bitter (and yes, that’s how you sound) . You sound as if you believe that you’re “getting even”, with your ex, and with men in general, with your current attitude.

        Objectively, I’d say you came out pretty well, better than most women, honestly, but you appear to be angry, because he’s recovered financially and moved on, because he “makes five times what I do”. So what? You don’t appear to be living in poverty.

        Guess what; your ex probably does not lose a moment’s sleep over whether you’re happy with the situation, or not. As for the rest of men, if you think any of us are all that hurt by the fact that you have decided to deprive all men of your company, because you resent that EVERYTHING didn’t come out the way YOU wanted…we don’t care! We don’t even know you, and if you’ve decided to vent your spleen by taking yourself permanently out of the dating pool, well, the only person you’re hurting, is YOU. That’s right, sweetie, you sound like a little child, “I didn’t get everything I wanted! It’s not fair! So I’m gonna go out to the garden and eat worms! *sniffle)” I’m sorry you choose to do that, (and I could think of better things you could do), but the only person who can make it any better, is YOU.

        I don’t mean to pick on you, Lily. You’re one of many, many men and women, who choose to live a life of resentment and bitterness. As we’ve heard from MonkMode, there are men who feel the same way you do, angry, resentful, more interested in blaming and playing the martyr and the victim, than moving on. Well, I’ve been there too. That’s right, divorce, alimony, child support- I took a beating. I didn’t like it either. The difference is, I’ve moved on, let it go, learned to stop feeling sorry for myself. So excuse me, if I don’t join you, MonkMode, and all the rest of the embittered, both male and female, in your little worm eating fest in the garden. The worms aren’t very appetizing, (I think they’re toxic, actually), and honestly,the company around the table isn’t so good either. I choose to dine in a different venue (it’s called “here and now”) where the both the meal and the company are far more pleasant. You should try it sometime. Strictly up to you, though.

        1. Lily

          Well, you misread what I wrote. I didn’t say I was taking myself out of the dating pool. Many of us in the dating pool (both men and women) want to be in committed relationships without remarrying. We don’t want to risk our assets as we approach retirement.

          In fact, I have been a fan of Evan’s for many years and I have been in some great relationships that I found through online dating.  I wouldn’t be on this website if I were not looking for good advice and actively looking for a new relationship. Life is good! Just because I dislike my ex’s punitive, narcissistic behavior doesn’t mean I see all men that way. That would be entirely illogical and unfair.

          Every asset I received in the divorce, I was given by a judge, who was merely administering California divorce law, as my ex felt he didn’t need to follow the law. It is patently obvious that both men and women in divorce situations can believe that they don’t have to follow the law. I met a very nice man whose ex-wife felt she was entitled to all of the retirement assets–both hers and his! All people can be irrational and selfish, whether male or female. That’s pretty much why we have laws and attorneys and judges, to protect us when selfish people want to break laws and hurt us.

          Newsflash, nk:  if you are awarded money in a lawsuit, it now belongs to you, not to the other party. Sorry, you don’t get to put yourself above the court and tell me that my legal assets are not mine.

          Ageism is real. My attorney has told me that the court understands that women in my situation probably will never earn what we earned before. Of course, I am making every effort to gain better employment, but I recognize that this may be as good as it gets for me financially. Is that a reason to be bitter and discontented? No. Is it a reason to be practical about using my spousal support to help my children get through college?  Absolutely. My son got into the best-ranked public university in the world, and his father will not help him financially because he is not going to a “Christian” college. I am helping my son because I want to support him and help him achieve his own goals, not my goals for him.

          And, I am forever grateful to Evan for his excellent advice which has enabled me to love again and be in wonderful relationships! I am currently in a very serious relationship with a man whose values regarding helping children in college are quite compatible with my own. Thanks, Evan! You are all about spreading happiness in this world through good relationships!

  10. 10
    BloggyDaddy

    I’m a divorced man and can definitely relate to this post.  My wife was just like the post said, “fell in love with another man, picked up and left and decided to get a divorce.”  We had a son together, now 6, and I was also with her son, now 12 since he was 4 years old.  I have shared custody with her of my son and I still see my former stepson every other weekend.
    My trust and admittedly my heart, were shattered by the experience, and I still have to see her every other weekend when I pick up my former stepson and return him at the end of the weekend.  There is no easy way to stop thinking about her as we have to see each other at those times and various school activities and such.  All I can say is that it gets better with time.  I remember hearing people say that to me 2 years ago but it is true and you can’t change it.  I’ve heard it said that one needs to take the amount of time you were together and divide it in half to know how much time you need to fully heal from the divorce.  I don’t know if that is true, but I do know that time is the best healer, it’s just hard to wait for.
    I find dating hard now though, not because of trust or finances, it’s just that I’ve never dated much to begin with even before I was married and I’m introverted as well.  This makes it tough, but I can honestly say that I dated one woman for about three months and I didn’t have any trust issues with her because of my experience.  Unfortunately she was not over her ex, still loved him and wasn’t ready for a new relationship.  Once I realized that was the case I broke it off.  I’d like to think that whenever I meet the next woman I’d like to be with, I’ll be able to treat her as an individual and not hold her up to other women I’ve been with.

  11. 11
    Suzy

    I am a divorced woman in my mid forties.  My husband had an affair after 23 years and 3 kids.  They were still in school. I made more money. I had to fight for custody.  If we split custoday, I would be paying HIM-even though he was the cheater and wanted the divorce.  As to assets. I got half of his, but he got half of mine.  So Evan if your wife left you and took half of your money, you could take half of hers. At least in my state.   It’s not just women taking the men. I have had friends leave abusive husbands and seen them sign the equity in the house over to the husband to keep the funds in their 401K.  I also have friends who were stay at home moms, and I know when they split up the husbands were resentful of the wives taking half of “their money” and pension.  Well, the wife/mother gave up contributing to social security and raised the children so the man could work. Of course they were entitled to half.  A lot of them supported their husbands through school also.  So again, they were entitled to this money.

    I don’t see divorce as unfair to men.  In fact, most of the divorces I see are initiated by men who have affairs, split homes, and leave women struggling financially. 

  12. 12
    Christie Hartman

    I am divorced and do not receive alimony; nor does any divorced woman I know. However, I wrote a book for women on how to handle dating and relationships with men like yourself. These days, alimony is the exception to the rule, and most wives do not receive it upon divorce. Last I heard, alimony is awarded in only 15% of divorces. And alimony for life is EXTREMELY unusual these days. The purpose of alimony is to provide a level playing field after divorce – e.g. if a wife says home and cares for the kids/home while a man is out increasing his income potential over 20 years, she has made a sacrifice on his behalf and is entitled to “payoff.” Without knowing the details of your situation, it is difficult to comment any further on that.
     
    As far as your prejudice toward women on alimony goes, it may help to remember a couple of things. One, she may have earned it by being in the situation I described above. Two, not all men have to be court-ordered to pay alimony – many agree to it. Yes, find out more about these women before making assumptions. And, depending on your circumstances, I wouldn’t rule out going back to court at some later date.
     
    Tough situation, man. With new women, take your time and get to know them. You’ll know when it’s right.

    1. 12.1
      rawr

      it’s extremely unusual because the divorces happen before the cutoff date for alimony, on top of men progressively being smarter about their relationships. personally a smart man would avoid divorced women altogether, especially single moms. men like this jaded guy will “limit” their options to women with a clean history, and any bad stuff he learns about he can already tell she’d worked it out thoroughly with lots of therapy and soul searching.

    2. 12.2
      Lily

      Thanks, Christie, for your rational approach.

      I would add that many people agree, in the divorce decree, to help their children through college, even though the state of California will not rule on “child support” after age 18. There are always people who will rise above the difficulty of a divorce in order to help the children in ways that are not mandated by law. I have been pleased to meet many of these types of people in the online dating world.

  13. 13
    Goldie

    @ Suzy and Christie ##11 and 12, I was going to say the same thing about stay-at-home moms. I have met several couples where the husband brought the wife over from a different country and told her, in one case, not to worry about money, “just stay home and raise the kids, I’ll take care of everything”. In another case, he just told her she was never going to work, period. I hope these couples are doing well, but hypothetically, if a man puts his wife in this situation and then they split up twenty years later, then yes by all means he owes her alimony, as she has no income of her own, no profession, no work experience and it is all a result of the request he once made. I would imagine if the wife cannot work due to a disability, she’d be entitled to alimony as well. Sounds fair to me. It is a very rare occasion where I live and I do not know anyone personally that receives it.

  14. 14
    MAXINE

    Dear Jaded:

    Right now you sound very bitter and you are really not ready for any type of relationship.  I used to be in your very same shoes.   I was married for over many years to a man I really loved since high school.   Thouhgt we would be married all of our lives.  However, he did not share my thouhgts.  After discovering his playmate (she did not realize he was married).  I decided to end the marriage after a few more playmates popped up.

    At the time, I  was the major breadwinner in the family.   He was tryin to start his own business.  Therefore, he tried to blame me for his wanderings.   He said I was never home.  However, I was trying to make a comfortable home for our family.  Yes, we had a child together.   We did agree that we would not ask anything of each  in order to get a quick and stress-free divorce.  Unfortunately, he did not keep his word.   Even though I had been paying the mortage by myself, his lawyer was requesting half the value of the home we owned together.    Wow, was I surprised by this request.  I had been paying most of the bills including the high mortgage payments. 

    Fortunately for me, I had a very aggressive lawyer who felt that I would be giving away too much and had asked for so little in return.  We finally reached an agreement that was not too painful for me to bear.  With his divorce money, he took his girlfriend on a wonderful vacation and paid her rent until the money ran out.     Yes, he started coming around saying how much he love and missed me and our child.   You know the story!

    All of this happened quite a few years ago.   However, I never let that stop me from meeting very nice men and going out with them.  I dropped the baggage and started to enjoy my freedom.   I finally did meet a very wonderful  man and had a very long term relationship with him.    Unfortunately, he passed away last year.    All of this is to say, give yourself some time to heal.   When the time and the woman is right, you will know it.  Evan is definitely right about that!    Also, maybe you should have another lawyer look into your case.  Good Luck to You!!

    1. 14.1
      Buck25

      @ Maxine,

      *slow clap* YES! Good for you!

  15. 15
    morgan

    Wow, lifetime alimony.  That truly sucks. 

    I’ve noticed a real split in attitudes in the women I know in terms of taking responsibility for earning the family income.  Some want to take the traditional stay at home role while others willingly take joint responsibility for paying the bills.  This isn’t alway easy, especially when the kids are pre-school.  I assume men have a say in these decisions and that many enjoy the benefits of having a spouse who doesn’t work. 

    I don’t think its unreasonable for Jaded to be leery of women on lifetime alimony (personally I find the concept abhorrent).  He just needs to find himself a woman who takes financial responsiblity for herself, there are plenty around. 

    Once he’s done that he needs to make sure he doesn’t whinge about his ex.  I’ve had a relationship with a divorced man who regularly complained about paying (quite reasonable) child support and it wasn’t sexy. 

  16. 16
    JerseyGirl

    You’re not a “Gold-digger” because you receive alimony from your ex-husband who you have children with. You are a gold-digger if you are 20 years old and dating wealthy or famous old men. 

    Too many men throw around the term “Gold-Digger” when it doesn’t apply. The comedian Steve Harvey wrote a relationshipbook (God knows why) but he did say something of value about “Gold-Digger:

    “Of course..some men simply refuse to share the money in their pockets with their women. As some rap songs and hiphop magazines tell you, these men feel they’re being “played of they provide anything of monetary value to the opposite sex. Some men even label any and every woman who expects her intended to provide for her the very handy, decisively ugly phrase gold digger. Oh, when it comes to women, that phrase gets tossed around these days like dough in a New York City pizza parlor. In fact, men have set it up so well that we’ve got women thinking that if they remotely expect a man to pay for their dinner, or buy them a drink at the bar, or set any financial requirements for their man, then they’re gold diggers.

    I’m here to tell you, though, ladies, that the term “gold digger” is one of the traps we men set to keep you off our money trail; we created that term for you so that we can have all of our money and still get everything we want from you without you asking for or expecting this very basic, instinctual responsibility that men all over the world are obligated to assume and embrace. It’s a “get-over” term, ladies- one that has a very legitimate premise (there are, of course, women who date and marry men solely for their cold, hard cash), but one that has been wrongly and almost universally applied to any woman who has made it clear that she  expects her man to fulfill his duty as a man. Know this: It is your right to expect that a man will pay for your dinner, your movie ticket your club entry fee, or whatever else he has to pay for in exchange for your time. You all have to stop this foolishness with the “I pay for my dinner so he knows I don’t need him” approach. As I point out in the next chapter, “The Three THings Every Man Needs: Support, Loyatly, and the COokie,” a man- a real one, anyway- wants to feel needed. And the easiest way to help him get that high is to LET him provide for you. This is only fair.

    And if he loves you? He is going to bring every sent home to you.

    Act like a Lady, think like a man” – Steve Harvey

    1. 16.1
      rawr

      you’re a gold digger if you think you’re entitled to a man’s money while you’re no working for him in the position of “wife”. you “supported” him while he built his business? good for you, now support yourself now that you’ve decided that you’re too good for him. they may as well put in alimony for men so that if a woman is entitled to his money post divorce, he’s entitled to whatever she did for him while they were still together, so that he can also continue to live in the lifestyle in which he was accustomed, or whatever bullshit line they used to excuse alimony.

      1. 16.1.1
        Lily

        In California, alimony is based on the salaries of both ex-spouses.  It has nothing to do with being a man or a woman. I know women who are paying alimony to their ex-husbands.

        1. nk

          life time alimony is wrong for either gendeer

  17. 17
    Steve

    The couple of posts here from women who ended up paying alimony have been a revelation.   Those women sound a lot like the men who are the usual authors of those stories.   I used to think the two sides of the alimony story were divided by sex, but maybe it is divided up by who pays.  A possible silver lining is that someone like Jaded could find a woman who really can understand where he is coming from.

  18. 18
    Steve

    @Jersey Girl
     
    No offense to you whatsoever.  I am criticizing the Steve Harvey quote, not you.  That quote seems to put women on the level of prostitutes, aka if they are putting out for men they should be getting something materialistic in return instead of just the pleasure of their company.
     
    I’m going to remember that the next time a thread about the issues of dating financially successful women comes up.   Those situations would at least have the silver lining of the man knowing it is not about is money.
     

  19. 19
    Selena

    If anything, posts (and comments) like these take the *glamour* out of marriage.  Legally speaking, it’s still a business arrangement. And one can see why people who have been married and divorced may not be so eager to sign a license again.

    So what would our culture look like if legal marriage were abolished?

    1. 19.1
      Cat

      Selena, #19 asked: So what would our culture look like if legal marriage were abolished?

      Probably how it looks currently to the lesbian and gay community.

    2. 19.2
      rawr

      women will actually have to be good partners to keep a man since there’s no legal binding nor any incentives to bail out.

  20. 20
    Steve

    @ Selena #19
     
    I had the same thoughts reading this thread and with a 55% divorce rate people can’t rationalize that they are somehow immune.   I was pretty much indifferent to marriage, but this thread is making me think that should advocate for alternative types of being in an LTR.

    1. 20.1
      Lily

      I absolutely agree.

  21. 21
    Selena

    @ Steve#21

    I agree, but Jaded (and men and women like him), are still going to be subject to the pressures of others who believe committment = legal marriage. And anyone who questions the validity of such a longstanding legal institution does so at the risk of being labeled “bitter”.

  22. 22
    Terri

    In my personal and professional life as an owner/operator of a brick and mortar dating agency, I have never heard of life time alimony.  As a wife who has worked for most of my marriage – except when the kids were very young – unless there are extenuating circumstances, I think it is so unfair.
    I would recommend that anyone planning a second marriage seriously consider a prenup.  Marriages now do not seem to be as serious and committed as they were 25+ years ago.
    An unmarried 35 year old nephew voiced his concern about losing half his income and having a custody battle over any children in the marriage which is keeping him from making a legal commitment.  IMO these seem like valid fears at this time.
     
     

  23. 23
    Jadafisk

    JerseyGirl: There’s got to be a midpoint… women that expect a guy to spring $15 for an entree aren’t “gold-diggers” by any stretch of the imagination, but that expectation is nowhere near a “right.”

    As for the OP… I had the same reaction as many of the other posters… “People still get awarded alimony?”

  24. 24
    JerseyGirl

    I’m not offended Steve but I don’t agree with you either. I don’t think the qoute hints at anything close to a john/hooker relationship. He isn’t advocating that women be with men they don’t love. He isn’t even advocating that men pay for the sake of paying. All he is saying is that the term gold-digger has been over manipulated. Like I said, a 20 year old girl marrying a 60 year old rich male, yeah, that’s a gold digger. You’re everyday average woman who gets invovled with your everyday average man..umm sorry, not a gold-digger.

    If a man cares for you, truly cares for you, he isn’t going to be stingy with his money. Now this isn’t the same as having to buy a woman big huge pricey gifts or live outside his means. But a man that considers you part of his life, a man that wants you to be part of his life, will share his resources with you. This is deeply biological.

    Time and time again women are told that men care about their looks, that you need to be a certain level of youth and fitness because men are “biologically” programmed to like that. 

    Women are biologically programmed to consider a man’s ability to provide. We need to know a man is capable in such matters. And a man that thinks your important or worthy enough to spend some of his resoures on is clearly interested in you. 

    If men don’t apologize for chasing women based on their looks, why should a woman apologize for evulating a man based on his money? 

    1. 24.1
      nk

      yes until the divorce. then she isn’t entitled to future money. simple

  25. 25
    C.

    I agree with Ruby(4) and Christie(12).
    There are SOOO many more women out there that aren’t living off alimony than those who are. If you are constantly meeting women who are “living a life of leisure”, then I think something is off with where you are looking.

  26. 26
    sharon

    I agree it absolutely agree it’s a business arrangement. And where your sharing assets like a home and the liability of children.. Well let’s put it this way, would you invest in a business partnership without any legal documentation? I think people just need to refine their contract. Deciding what’s fair is easier while you still both one another. So prenup!  Of course this advice won’t answer the initial question at all. I’m curious though where is this place you live where all the women you meet have alimony and lifetime no less. The only women I know with life time alimony is my grandmother. Both my grandmother and grandfather are in their 90s still bitter as hell 40 + years after their divorce and I swear they’re both trying to outlive each other.

  27. 27
    Nancy Cieri

    Dear Jaded Man:
    I don’t know what state you live in but I received no such generous spousal maintenance from my cheating ex-spouse!  I concluded that although life is not fair, I am certainly blessed to be on the road to recovery, enjoying a love affair with myself(!) and not worrying about the future despite my own very vulnerable financial status and singledom.  One wise friend advised me through the turmoil of my divorce to not worry about what you are getting (in life) but what you can give. That thought makes all the difference to me daily. 
    Best Wishes 
    Manhattan Lady

  28. 28
    Sherell

    PRENUP!!!!

  29. 29
    Christie Hartman

    @C (25): I too wondered why he is meeting so many women on alimony. The universe has a strange way of screwing with us – if you’re bitter about being cheated on, you seem to meet cheaters. If you’re bitter about paying uncomfortable levels of alimony, then “all” the women you date are getting it. What you focus on, you get.
     
    But as I said before, it’s hard to comment further without more details – how old he is, is his ex-wife ill, are there kids, how old are the kids, how much does he have to pay. It’s probably not as bad as it seems.

  30. 30
    Ruby

    C #25 & CH #30

    I suspect Jaded is attracting these women because he still has unresolved issues about his ex and his marriage. He’s afraid to move on and not ready yet, so he keeps picking women who are like his ex (a “money-grubbing lotto winner”). It’s a vicious cycle, but one of his own making.

     

    1. 30.1
      Bob

      I suspect Jaded is in or beyond his 30’s and using some form of online or similar non natural way of meeting women. Women (men as well) at peace with their lives aren’t generally actively looking to find someone else to feel fulfilled. You’ll find them doing whatever it is that fulfills them.

      Best advice I can think of is for Jaded to quit thinking he needs a women and live his life. Become at peace with being you and doing you. If you find someone doing you, that’s great. If not, that’s just as great.

      As for the alimony, yeah, that sucks. I ended up here looking for for ‘how to become at peace with alimony’. The thought of someone mooching of me for life doesn’t sit well with me at all. Help someone get on their feet? Sure. Help someone that is incapable? I get it. Someone forfeited a career? It’s never to late to start again, but yeah, I see that too. Footing the bill for someone that’s lazy, opportunistic or both? Nope …

    2. 30.2
      Lily

      When a person is in a long-term marriage, and that marriage ends badly, it is easy to date people who remind you of the person you were with for so many years. It many times is not a conscious choice.

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