How Do I Get Men Outside My Race To Commit To Me?

I have a question that I don’t think you’ve been asked before! I’m a slim and attractive, successful black woman who only dates Caucasian men – but I can’t get one to commit! It’s so frustrating, I seem to be a curiosity. They all say, “I’ve never been out with a black women before” as if all my bits are going to be different to any other woman on this planet. If I’m lucky, they’ll date me briefly, but it’s purely about the sex! (I haven’t had many sexual partners. I’m 36 and have slept with under 10.) I’m extremely fussy who I “put out” for. I’m on two dating sites: eHarmony and Match Affinity – both USELESS. I don’t find most men on them attractive and, of the ones that I do, they don’t like me! Anyway, I’ve just read your newsletter. You must be a mind reader as yesterday I was thinking of closing both accounts!

So here’s my question: men clearly find me attractive, but how do I get a Caucasian man to commit? My sister gets men to commit but you wanna see the state of them – I have higher standards! I’ve spoken to my guy friends (all Caucasian) and their feedback is: it’s rare that they meet black women (let alone attractive ones) and while they’d date one, they would never settle down and have children! Is this because most people picture their future from an early age and mixing it up doesn’t quite sit right? I’m so sick of the “you’re really attractive, why are you single” comments because I don’t KNOW why I’m single. Even the men I have dated think I’m great – so why am I not great enough to settle down with??? In the UK, Caucasian women have no problems dating black men. It’s not uncommon to see this type of couple – however, flip the coin and you’re in a different realm. The only men I attract are the ones I don’t fancy or have a different agenda to me! So I realise that in this ever decreasing dating pool, my numbers are even smaller than most women as I don’t and won’t date within my race. I just don’t find black men attractive! So what to do – am I living in a dream world and need to maybe just get into my head that I’m meant to be single? Thanks, from a rather frustrated and almost desperate Jae!

Dear Jae,

Yes. You’re living in a dream world.

To understand why, I need to pick apart your letter, line by line, and hold a mirror up to you, so you can see what I see.

You can’t MAKE anyone do anything.

First of all, your question, “How do I get a Caucasian man to commit?” sounds as silly to me as, “How do I get a black woman to commit?”

You’re a black woman, Jae. How would you answer that question if I told you that my black girlfriends always dump me?

If you were smart, you’d tell me one of these three things:

1. You can’t MAKE anyone do anything, Evan. Therefore, any question like “How do I make Jae love me? How do I make her want to change her behavior?” is pointless.

2. If black women are attracted to Jewish men but don’t want to marry us, there’s not much I can do about it, is there? No more than some guitarist can complain that women are attracted to him but don’t want to marry a 40-year-old guy who plays for tips in the subway. It may not be fair, but it’s reality. So if a black woman doesn’t see herself having mixed race Jewish kids, you’re probably not going to be a good fit for her life, Evan -  even if you’re both nice, attractive people. That’s life.

3. There’s no difference between black women and other women, Evan. They’re just “women”. So the question remains: why would any woman dump you?

That leads us to the next part of today’s tough love post: “Why would any man dump you, Jae?” (Note to other readers: this a good thing for you to contemplate, too, since humility and self-awareness are the keys to any long-term relationship.)

From your email, I’ve learned a few things:

Stop looking down on nice guys who want to commit to you.

You have a big ego.

You don’t find most men attractive.

You won’t date within your own race.

You look down on the commitment-oriented white men who fall for your sister since they’re beneath your standards.

Do I even need to say anything else as to why you’re still single?

No, I do not.

If you want to find love, just undo everything I restated above.

Get over yourself. You may be attractive and successful, but quality men care more about your kindness and character and humor than how much you make.

Learn to give men a chance, even if they’re not your type. After all, don’t you want a bunch of Caucasian men to give YOU a chance even if you’re not THEIR type?

Open up to black men, since that’s the most obvious pool of candidates who’d be interested in you.

Stop looking down on nice guys who want to commit to you. They’re better long-term relationship bets than the white men who are using you for exotic sex, don’t you think?

I appreciate your frustration and thank you for your letter, but you’re completely focused on things you can’t change (white men!) instead of the only thing you CAN change (your perceptions, actions and reactions.)

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Z

    I agree with Bill and Flower, I think that’s good advice.

  2. 32
    Flower

    Thank you Z. I was puzzled reading some of the other responses. But as a fellow Black female who IR dates -I’m African American, slim and attractive, too, I can relate to Rae.
    Oh and I was married to a BM. Would date one if my ‘type’ was around but my ‘type’ of BM is far and few between in my Northern California neck of the words so it’s WM.
    Rae, Define the sort of WM you want and accept nothing less. Have a list of non-negotiables. Reject the ones who appear to treat you as a sex object. Stay busy with your full life. Get the word out! Keep dating! If you are as hot as you say you are, soon and very soon, you will have the man of your dreams.
    As they say in certain hoods “don’t let haters keep you off your grind” -why should you date a BM just cause you’re the same race? makes no sense to me. BW are expected to be emotional mules hoping and praying for that one perfect BM.

  3. 33
    Karl R

    Bill said: (#29)
    “Attraction is not a choice. [...] She is attracted to white men”

    First, Jae stated that she only dates white men. She didn’t say that whites were the only men she found attractive. She also said that she didn’t find most men on eHarmony and Match.com attractive (again, without specifying race).

    Second, we might not be able to choose who we are attracted to, but we can certainly influence it over time. You probably won’t be able to convince yourself that repulsive people are attractive, but it’s quite possible to broaden your view of which people are attractive … if you put your mind to it.

    Jae seems to be expending a lot of extra effort to find a white man for a committed relationship, even though there’s nothing that indicates that the color of his skin will make her happier or the relationship more successful in the long run.

  4. 34
    Bill

    “one perfect BM” LOL there is no such thing as perfection. If your over the age of 35 it is time to get real. Find someone you can connect with at a deep level. Your not a spring chicken anymore. Your list of requirements are pretty good if you want to be single. Yes I know you rather be single than be unhappy. At the end of the day your the one who is making yourself unhappy.

  5. 35
    Flower

    Bill of course you got my sarcasm.
     
    Karl, it doesn’t matter. She wants a WM, that’s her choice. Just cause she’s B doesn’t mean she has to date a BM. Many Asians ladies and BM make the extra effort to date outside their race even though there’s nothing that indicated that the color of their skin will make them happier or the relationship more successful in the long run.
    I am getting the vibe of … dare I say the R word …
    Anyway, Rae has not chimed in here.  Good luck, Rae. As Willow Smith sang “don’t let hater’s get you off your grind”, lastly I say, with effort and determination you will find the WM of your dreams.

  6. 36
    Laureni

    Evan’s answer was on target, but terribly depressing. I’m an attractive black woman and it took me a long time to finally accept the fact that race matters tremendously in the dating game and unfortunately, most men, particularly white men, would not want to marry a black woman.  Even if you are kind and nurturing. Even if you do everything right. I didn’t start to find love until I came to this sobering realization.
    In defense of the OP, I wouldn’t quickly dismiss her as being ego-inflated. White people who wish to date only outside of their race would not be judged so harshly. We all have egos when it comes to dating.  Those who have more power/leverage are forgiven for their egos. I know that Evan keeps reiterating that men are more about “feelings” and not looks, but it’s not really that simple. An egotistical hot, young white woman probably stands a better chance of snagging a tall, successful 36 year old white guy than the most nurturing black woman ever could. Humility is accepting that life isn’t fair.

  7. 37
    Karl R

    Flower,
    I see a huge difference between someone like you (who primarily dates members of one race due to circumstances) and someone like Jae (who will only date members of one race).

    If someone only dates members of one race, it raises the question of “Why?” While we don’t know Jae’s reason, I can think of several reasons … and “a fetish” is the least disturbing of the possibilities.

    I don’t want to date any woman who has chosen me because she has a fetish, because she sees me as a status symbol, because she believes I’m somehow “pure,” etc. I want to date women who are interested in me as a person … regardless of my skin color or hers.

    And I doubt I’m the only man (white or not) who feels this way. And if enough men feel the same way as I do, that could partially explain Jae’s lack of success.

    On a separte note, do you think Jae has better odds of finding that one perfect WM, than that one perfect BM?

  8. 38
    Z

    Karl R. said: “If someone only dates members of one race, it raises the question of “Why?” While we don’t know Jae’s reason, I can think of several reasons … and “a fetish” is the least disturbing of the possibilities.”
    Would you say the same thing if the situation were a BW who only dated BM?

  9. 39
    Andrea

    @Karl R, I totally think that wherever she lives Jae has a better shot at finding a “perfect” white guy over a “perfect” black guy.
    It might not be true perfection(in regards to the search for a “perfect” mate) so much as standing a higher chance of getting other criteria that she wants.
    I don’t think I have to extrapolate much to guess that education and a good career are probably must-haves for Jae.
    Based on Jae’s writing, I’m going to guess that she’s from the UK.  Not sure if she’s still there, but most people raised in the U.S. don’t refer to themselves as “fancying” anything.  So she might have the same issues that Flower has finding black men at all(and I live in N. Cal too).
    Look, maybe it’s not obvious to a lot of people who aren’t black women and maybe aren’t looking for black men, but if you are really well-educated and want someone who has formal education and no illegitimate kids,  way fewer black men will fit the bill.  And that is true whether you are in Idaho or Washington D.C. Dealing with men whose circumstances differ significantly from your own is just not something that women of other races have to deal with.
    That’s why I’m willing to cut her some slack about looking for a white man.  She might be a bit too blunt about it, and it sounds like she’s excluding black men, but it might be because her perception is that they lack some fundamental traits that she wants or needs.  I’m not interested in people with kids all over the place and who can’t write or spell either.  I think a lot of educated women aren’t.  It’s not even about money.
    I don’t think that a lot of white people in this country can really relate to that kind of imbalance.  As I’d said before, try filtering as if you were looking for an educated black man and compare that to the number of well-educated black women that you can find.  Those numbers are depressing and it can make you not want to bother looking at all. Add to that the fact that many of THOSE black men also don’t want to talk to black women anyway.
    What is hard is that Jae is trying to break into a dating pool that largely sees no value in her except as a sex toy.  As she said, some want to play around but not date her in any meaningful way.  Many white men will list every ethnicity except black as what they are looking for.  As was mentioned, (and I’ve seen in other threads), many Asian women will exclude Asian men.  I didn’t see/read anyone coming down so hard on them for having a fetish for white men.  And it does seem that women who have a fetish for black men are willing to commit to them.
    I’m not defending her choice 100%, but I’m not going to pretend that I don’t get where she’s coming from or ignore the fact that there is a BIG double standard as people judge her choice.
    And add me to the list that wouldn’t blame anyone for only dating members of their own race.  As I said though, Jae’s success might be as bad if not worse if she picked that strategy unless she was willing to give up a lot in terms of finding someone with a common background.
    Her best shots are really to focus on all races and if her criteria really is about education and career, to stick to that, and to use interracial dating sites.  There will be people with fetishes but there will just be regular white men who maybe don’t feel confident approaching black women (I’ve had white male friends say that they “don’t know what to say”) and I can truthfully say that lot of black women do shut the advances of non-black men out, so approaching someone online who is open and where you can play the numbers game can be the best approach.
    Even in the best case scenario, she’ll still have far fewer options than her white or Asian counterparts, so she is shooting herself in the foot here in my opinion.

  10. 40
    Karl R

    Z asked: (#38)
    “Would you say the same thing if the situation were a BW who only dated BM?”

    Of course.

    I would apply it to anyone who only dates members of one race. No exceptions.

    Andrea said: (#39)
    “As was mentioned, (and I’ve seen in other threads), many Asian women will exclude Asian men.  I didn’t see/read anyone coming down so hard on them for having a fetish for white men.”

    There’s a substantial number of asian women who seek white men, because they see those men as a status symbol. There’s a substantial number of white men who seek asian women, because they have have a fetish for Asians. Both groups are exercising poor selection criteria … but it’s not stopping them from finding a partner. They easily find an equally shallow partner, and they appear to be quite happy with that outcome.

    Since both groups are getting what they want, they’re not coming here seeking advice. I can’t speak for anyone else on this blog, but I don’t waste my time giving advice to people who aren’t interested in listening.

    Jae knows something isn’t working for her. She might not like my advice, but she’s in a better position to listen to it.

    Andrea said: (#39)
    “maybe it’s not obvious to a lot of people who aren’t black women and maybe aren’t looking for black men, but if you are really well-educated and want someone who has formal education and no illegitimate kids, way fewer black men will fit the bill.”

    That’s an ugly stereotype, but there’s a bit of truth to it.

    But that ugly stereotype applies equally well to black women. So if I’m looking for a woman with a formal education and no illegitimate kids, I could save time by ruling out every black woman.

    Of course, Jae and Flower and Laureni and every other black woman reading this blog is about to start screaming that the stereotype doesn’t apply to them. THEY are an exception to the stereotype.

    But Jae is ignoring the fact that there are black men who are also exceptions to the stereotype that you gave. She is more aware than many people that some people are exceptions to the general rule. She’s in a position to truly value people who do look beyond the stereotype to see the qualities that she actually possesses.

    And Jae is apparently unwilling or incapable of extending that insight to any black man. How is that anything but a double-standard.

    I agree with most of your other comments. Jae is in a tough dating position, and she’s making it tougher by her own choices.

  11. 41
    Goldie

    I am surprised so few commenters have been able to accurately see where Karl is coming from, to the point of “the R-word” having already surfaced. sheesh. When I look at Jay’s letter, I see the exact same thing he sees, a huge logical disconnect.
     
    In the letter, Jae describes herself as a woman who chooses her men based on their skin color first, all their other qualities being secondary. She does not understand why the men she dates, that she chose based on their race first and foremost, are not color blind. Well, because neither is she!
     
    If I chose the men I date based first and foremost on their looks, I’d end up dating a lot of shallow men to whom looks are the number one factor. To me this is the same thing. If you chose a man, not for who he is, but because he’s white, don’t be surprised to find out that he, in turn, chose you, not for who you are, but because to him you’re an exotic dish he hasn’t tried yet.
     
    I like Sarah’s comment #22. She didn’t choose “a Chinese guy”, she chose HIM and he happened to be Chinese. IMO that is the way to go.

  12. 42
    Andrea

    Karl R,
    We don’t know if Jae isn’t going to take Evan’s advice yet because she hasn’t chimed back in. I think plenty of Asian women write in here…the first post I ever read on this site was from an Asian woman who was asking about being a sell-out for not dating her own race.
    The stereotype doesn’t apply EQUALLY well to black men and black women unfortunately.  This is a case where it applies more often to the men than the women, and since I think that in general people do tend to date and marry people with similar educational backgrounds, it doesn’t bode well for black women.
    Blacks overall have higher rates of illegitimate births and are enrolled in university at lower rates than members of other groups.  Not sure what the break out is for the births, but for school black women attend and graduate from college at much higher rates.
    So yes, It it true when you compare us collectively to whites and Asians you could apply an ugly general stereotype, but if you visit ANY college campus in this country, you will see many more black women than black men.  So there is nothing EQUAL about it.  Too many professional, well-educated black women have no black male colleagues, classmates, etc. We enroll in higher education at a higher rate, and we graduate at a higher rate.  When you go on to graduate school(and I’ve been 3 times) and the workplace, that imbalance gets even worse. The handful of blacks who work in my large division of an even larger company are black women…and we’re not talking about a company or industry where women are highly represented.  That was true for me in my pre-grad school career too.
    People from other ethnic groups in this country don’t have such a disparity in the pursuit of higher educations, although current stats show more women than men enrolled overall.
    It’s a small sample size, but when you start using online dating sites and you filter based on education, you’ll get far more hits on educated black women than educated black men.
    I do think that Jae can find a man to commit to her, and if she’s an attractive, educated woman she can probably find a white man that fits the bill.  But I think she needs to take the focus off of his race and more on the real qualities that she wants in a mate, because honestly, there will still be more non-black men that fit her criteria if I’m right and her preferences are based on education and career.
    This is in the news ALL of the time.  I’m surprised that everyone seems so unaware of that imbalance and you just want to insist that it’s an ugly stereotype that affects us equally, because it simply doesn’t.  And I guess no one pays attention to it when it pops into the news b/c it’s a population that people aren’t trying to date or marry. Frankly, I can say it kind of sucks  to keep reading in the NY Times, CNN, and watch on Oprah that if you are a really educated black woman, you aren’t ever going to find a man.
    What surprises me more than Jae’s rather blunt approach to things is how many educated black women either remain single or date men who are dropouts, are underemployed, etc. Evan’s example in his response doesn’t surprise me at all. (I’m assuming it’s an anecdote from him real life and not just an analogy).  It takes a lot of black women a long time to realize what a silly choice they are making, and some never do get it.
    I wish Jae would write in again so the speculation would end.  She probably needs to widen her pool but it only takes one in the end. And it’s not any true statistical study or proof of anything, but my friends who finally started dating white men have had no problem getting them to commit to and marry them.  But none of them started with the requirement that he needed to be white (okay, maybe a couple looked exclusively but it wasn’t a hard and fast rule)…it was more that in their case, they put the really important traits and stopped excluding the white men and I think the numbers just worked out better because more white men had those traits.

  13. 43
    DR

    I can understand Jae’s situation.  I’m a 34 year old black, female professional in a very male dominated field.  I’ve found over time (and mostly through work) that I get along better with white men than black men.  I find that black men with similar education/backgrounds are much more cocky than white men.
    For a number of years, I was only open to dating white men.  Yet, I was missing a little something, and that was the cultural nuances that I share with black men.  I’m still single, but I’m learning the basic attributes that I require in a mate, and these exceed race.  They include straightforwardness, good work ethic, good sense of humor, and communicative.
    Honestly, I’d prefer a tall, athletic, blond European man with the libido of a rabbit.  But what I’m mostly committed to is a sexy, communicative relationship with a man that I can laugh with and enjoy his company regardless of race.

  14. 44
    Luxe

    I wonder how she is coming off on these dates. If she’s bring up race as an important thing right off the bat, that can be a turn off. It would be for me. I would agree that she is better off focusing on someone’s character first. Quality guys will respond to you better if you are looking at them like people versus “a Caucasian guy.”

  15. 45
    Brooke

    A big thank you to Andrea for clarifying for everyone. Reading these comments it was clear to me that some factors were not being considered because the odds are simply different for bw.  I relate to Jae although I don’t focus on white men exclusively- I do find it frustrating that I’m approached as a “sex toy” so to speak.  There are wm who have wanted to commit to me but the vast majority of them act as if they are having some kind of experience. So much so that my filter catches them pretty early now.  Yes its and ugly reality but it is a reality.  I don’t know what Jae’s reasons are but I def. see no reason to jump down her throat as a person who gets it.

  16. 46
    Rachel

    I really hate it when people try to overanalyze why one person wants to date a certain race of people and not another and that if they don’t want to date their own race then they have serious issues.  I’m a black woman that primarily dates white men.  I started out that way but overtime I have expanded to dating other ethnicities (Asian, Latino as well.) Because white men are the largest race in this country for dating, by default, I usually go out with White men but am open to others.  I don’t date black men because I’m not attracted to them and have always been attracted to those who were of a different race than I was.  I don’t hate myself, I love being black and I don’t need to be enrolled in some 12 step program. My attraction is my attraction, don’t overanalyze it.

    For Jae getting advice on this blog, I love EMK but I think that unless you are a black woman it is really hard for someone not of the same cultural background to give advice on this subject. I also, think that for people who aren’t minorities aren’t able to give good advice on this topic as well.  When it comes to dating, Black Women and Asian men are on the bottom of the “desirability” dating list and the dynamics of us dating are very different from most people. EMK stated that woman are women but in America women are treated very differently in dating and online according to their ethnicity. I would encourage Jae to look at tons of blogs that discuss Black Female Interracial Marriage and blogs like Beyond Black and White that give advice on topics like this.
    MY ADVICE FOR JAE WOULD BE:
    If what you are doing is not working I would look at changing some of your techniques to see if you can make things change YOUR way.
    1) Your Standards- Keep them high but realistic.  I always hate when they tell us women to lower our standards and settle.  It seems that especially for Black Women we are told settle just so we can find a man.  (Yes, Ivy League grad, you should be open to dating the shoe sales man as long as he’s a good man!)  Jae, you know how if your expectations are too high? If you have NEVER met a man that could fulfill your criteria.  I have high standards as well, but I have met 3-4 men in real life that could meet them, so it is achievable.  I have a list personally five non-negotiable traits that a guy must have.  If he doesn’t have those traits I walk away. Know what traits the guy has to have for a relationship to work with you. 
    2) You as a product- I always see myself as a product.  An AMAZING one at that.  But in someplace like the US just because the color of the package, people won’t want to buy the amazing product that is inside.  I also like to look at it in terms of market supply and demand.  There maybe a low demand for your product but in other countries there maybe higher demand.  Since it sounds like you are in the U.K. I would look at dating men in Germany, France, Italy, Spain and even place like Ireland, Norway and Sweden.  Once again, this info is all on the BF IR blogs, but there are lots of black women who have had success with dating and marrying men there.  In some places you will be seen as exotic but in others they will just treat you just like a normal woman and will approach you as a normal woman.
    3) For dating at home in the UK I would change your approach.  It sounds like you are meeting and dating men but are not able to take it to the “relationship status”. 
                a) In your profiles I would suggest putting in that you are looking for marriage.
                b) Make sure the man knows that you are looking for a LTR eventually leading to marriage.
    c) Only have sex with them after you agreed you are in a committed relationship.
    I thinking doing a and b, when a man goes on date, he knows what you are expecting out of the relationship. And with C, if he didn’t get the message, then he’ll drop by the wayside when he doesn’t “get the goods”. Jae also needs to do better screening of men at the first encounter.  I’ve tuned my radar and know when a guy who is asking me out on a date during the first meeting he shows he has a fetish , (i.e. telling me how he loves black women or always wanted to date a black women, etc.)  For those men stay away, if he approaches you like a normal woman that is a good sign too.
    I think once you know what you want and how to filter them, it’s only a matter of time to find the guy.  Being a black woman dating just white men is going to be a little harder so you have to cast you net wider.
    4) Expand your search options- looking at Interracial dating sites such as afroromance.com or interracialmatch .com.  If you use match.com make sure to put that you are “open to dating all race” as it will make you sound more IR friendly.  If you are only attracted to white men go for it, but also consider looking at dating Latino, Asian, etc. men as well to even add more men to your search pool.
    Black women have horrible response rates online (OKCupid blogged  all about this).  Response rates to our ads are lower than what they should be for a statically norm (no surprise).  So while I do use online dating, especially being a black female you need to get out there and do in person activities (meetup.com, professional organizations/events, get invited to house parties, speed dating, go to a professional pub if there’ such a thing, etc.). EMK blogged about this but certain groups of people do better offline then online.  Once I started getting offline, I was able to meet many more professional white males who were actually interested in dating and committing to me.  It’s not easy, but then again neither is being a black woman! I’m sure what you are looking for is out there!
    HTH-
    Rachel

  17. 47
    Karl R

    Rachel said: (#46)
    “I have high standards as well, but I have met 3-4 men in real life that could meet them, so it is achievable.”

    3-4 acceptable men over what time period? Did any of those find you similarly acceptable?

    Let’s assume 5% of all high-quality men are interested in a long-term relationship with you. Let’s assume you’re meeting 4 men per year who you find acceptable. That gives you an 18.5% chance of meeting a mutually acceptable man each year [100%-(100%-5%)^4=18.55%]. After 8 years, you’ll have an 80% chance of meeting someone mutually acceptable.

    If you’re only meeting 4 acceptable men over a 5 year time-span, you have a 4% chance of meeting an acceptable man in a given year. After 17 years you’ll have a 50% chance of meeting someone mutually acceptable.

    If you’re only meeting 4 acceptable men over a 10 year time-span, it will take you about 20 years to have a 33% chance of meeting a mutually acceptable man.

    I agree with your assessment. It is achievable. But depending at what rate you’re meeting acceptable men, it might become a very difficult achievement.

  18. 48
    Rachel

    @Karl (#47)

    The guys that I have met have been in the past one year.  Out of four of them, only one found me “acceptable” and we had discussed (in a totally non-creepy way) how he had dated women of color in the past and was very comfortable with it.  We didn’t go on a second date however.  Anyhow, for the other 3 guys, I know they either found me interesting or were attracted to me from how we were talking but frankly I know the reason it did not move forward was because I was Black. I know especially with some white guys they feel the attraction but are afraid to act on it because of whatever issue (fear of cultural differences, what other people may say, etc.)  It really sucks to know that you do meet matches and you know the only reason why they won’t ask you out if because of the color of your skin and that if you were white you would at least be dating.  But that’s the reality of being a Black woman in America trying to date interracially.
    That’s why I’m strongly considering trying to relocate to Europe.  I’m not saying that there isn’t racism or Europe is some paradise but I feel that in some countries there, they treat all women well…just like women.  It’s not the fact that I’m a 9 and I have all of this education, class, and sophistication and should have all these men coming up to me.  It’s just I would love to be in a country where I’m treated just like an normal woman on an even playing field and where yes, men look at your looks and the package but it’s not like, “she’s a eight and is pretty but she’s black”. Just where a 5 is a 5 and a 7 is a 7 no matter what you color is .  If that were the case in the US I think I would have found my mate while back.  But I don understand that America is very race conscious, so this is something I have to deal with being a Black women who dates interracially in America.
    Given you statistics, you could say that after 4 years I have a 40% chance of meeting a match. Let’s compromise a say 50%.  If I need to wait 4 years to have a 50% chance of meeting my ideal mate, that I’ll wait 4 years or even 8 years.  If we are talking about marrying the one that you want to be with for the rest of your life, than I would rather wait then marry the wrong person.  Of course, that is why I’m looking at moving to another location to increase those ratios.  I have also expanded my social circles as well and done more offline actitives as of recent which I hope will help those chances.  Also, I’m always working hair, clothes and weight to help perfect the packaging.  I can complain all I want on this board about race, men and IR dating in America but like EMK has said, just because a situation is unfair doesn’t mean it will change.  The only thing I can change is myself and what I do.
     

  19. 49
    SS

    I’m a black woman. I’m married to a Caucasian man.  So I think I can speak from experience on this one.
     
    Yes, there are some Caucasian men who only want to experiment with black women. Here’s what you do… DON’T DATE THEM. As soon as you get the idea that those men are NOT looking for something serious, then move on.
    I’ve probably dated more Caucasian men than most black women (not by deliberate choice… I was simply around them more), and they ran the gamut. Some were recently out of a marriage and were clearly into dating (but not committing to) all the types of women they might never have dated when they were much younger. Others were very serious… one told his daughter about me and wanted me to meet her. He was ready to pay for a trip to visit him, but I was the one uninterested in him. However, I have no doubt that this Caucasian man (and Jewish to boot) would probably have been willing and ready to make a serious commitment to me if our relationship progressed.
    Just as you would do with black men (or men of any other race), if you’re dating a white guy, pay attention to see if he’s showing the signs of being commitment minded before you get deep into infatuation with him. Is he trying to include you in his life? Is he telling his family and friends about you? Is he introducing you to family?
    And STOP with the racial conversations with random white people about why white men won’t marry black women en masse. Who cares? Stop focusing on them and playing this, “Woe is me the black woman who no one wants.” And also STOP with the silly “Why do black men get to date all the Caucasian women they want while I can’t date all the Caucasian men I want?” When did this become a competition? If you want to date and only marry Caucasian men (which is your absolute right and I’m not criticizing that), then stop worrying about what black men are doing!
    Like Evan always says, like the men who like you back. I’m sure there are PLENTY of Caucasian men around you who would be more than willing to commit to you… but are THEY the ones you’re looking for? Or would you rather waste time with the ones who see you as a curiosity and DON’T want to commit to you?
    I don’t care if the vast majority of white men don’t want to get serious with black women. There are enough white men who ARE willing to do so to be more than enough for the number of black women who are interested. There are more white men than black women in this country anyway, so I’m sure you could find ONE who wants to marry you, if you stop focusing on those who don’t… and stop wasting time with the “jungle fever” types.

  20. 50
    SS

    I wish I could edit posts!
     
    I just read many of the comments, and I have to say that I find it interesting that so many people were bothered by the fact that Jae said that she did not date black men. I don’t know her and I won’t make a comment one way or the other about this, but I do find in general that black women get MUCH more heat than women of other races do for saying that they won’t date the men of their own race… and black women are probably the least likely to say that!
    Asian women have the highest intermarriage rates in the US and it’s cool for white guys to talk about how much they dig Asian women. I hear Asian women say without even hesitating how they will only date white guys, but NO ONE EVER calls them self-hating, racist or anything like that. Does anyone question black men about this? How many white women are horrified when a black man tells them how much he prefers them over black women? Do these white women recoil and call those black men racist, or do they lap up the attention and accept a date from that man?
    Some of these same Asian women too will say that they would never date a black man because of family issues, lack of attraction, etc. Does anyone call them racist for that? Rarely. Wonder why?
    I don’t want to hear any white men, women, etc., psychoanalyzing a black woman who chooses to date out of her race exclusively. If one wants to say that she should open up her choices to black men, Hispanic men, etc., for the purpose of having more options, fine… but unless all of us can honestly say that we have NO racial preference whatsoever in our mates and hold no stereotypes about people of our own race or a different race that influences our dating decisions, then we’re being hypocritical telling black women how “self-hating” they are if they choose not to tell black men.
     
    Back to Jae… I agreed with the poster who said to stop asking white men about their experience dating black women. You are already putting negative vibes out there by jumping the gun and making assumptions about a man without getting to know them first. I know that my husband said that he was pleasantly surprised that I didn’t ask him if he had dated black women before when we met for our first date… he said to ask that question (and the answer was no) would have placed him in a position where he might have come off as suspect if he told the truth, and then I might have improperly judged him as a “jungle fever” candidate, when he simply was a man who wanted to meet a woman he considered attractive and she happened to be black. By simply seeing him as a man, it allowed him to show me on his own whether or not he was serious, and then LATER, we were able to have racial discussions about our families, children, etc.
    I think too many black women shoot themselves in the foot on interracial dates by wanting to interrogate a white man about his “intentions.” And then if the answer is not a good one, then said woman starts building up this idea in her mind that no non-black men want black women because after all, the guys she dated said as much.
    So again, I would simply say that if the Caucasian-men only path is the one you want to follow, change your technique. Read some interracial dating blogs geared toward black women and get some tips. Change your attitude and for black women in general, stop with the whole “bottom of the totem pole,” “not the standard of beauty” sob fest.
    Society is what it is. Stop focusing on that and focus on what you can control… which is learning how to find the type of men that would be the ones that would commit to you.

  21. 51
    Andrea

    Frankly, I’m surprised that Jae is sticking around for what sounds like obvious fetishists but maybe it comes from her determination to have a white man at all costs.  It makes me wonder if despite her goal of having a white man, whether she has any experience with them.  There are clearly nice white men who will like her for her and not as an experiment, but it’s odd that she’s not running for the hills when she meets people who want to play around.  Does she think it could lead to more?  That never works.
    I think she can get what she wants, but just like any of the women who write in here for advice, she needs to change her approach, and move on if she gets creepy vibes (just like she’s be advised if she thought the guy was a player, or was disrespecting her, or keeping her around as a spare).
    I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I felt compelled to chime in on a blog that is probably largely population by white(or at the very least, non-black) readers b/c of the assumptions that they seemed to have about Jae and her choices, and like you, for their criticisms in calling her the “R” word.  It’s so funny, b/c if the tables were turned, they’d bristle at the accusation but I find that the word is lobbed at us quite frequently. Also, whether anyone who isn’t black wants to admit it or not, we do find ourselves with different challenges that no amount of positive thinking can erase.
    I think any well-educated,professional black woman who wants an equally well-educated mate HAS to be open to dating men of other races, and yes, I felt compelled to explain that someone who has maybe decided to look only for white men isn’t necessarily doing it b/c she considers them to be better or because she hates herself as a black person, even though it might look like that to someone from the outside.
    I felt it was important to chime in b/c her position and perspective is so poorly understood.  I mean, in my opinion, a lot of people write in talking about how hot they are and how hard they have it while dating, and I just felt that the comments about having a big ego weren’t lobbed at them nearly as harshly as they were at Jae.  Normally, the people who brag about being 10′s and who are 45 but can pass for 20 but who can’t find a man are first complimented on the fact that being a 10 is going to now make the job of finding a man easier, provided that they change the approach since you can’t change the men.
    And in my opinion, that’s the advice that Jae needs to hear, but it’s also true that she should think about the fact that for the market that she’s trying to enter, her stock is on average considerably lower.   So unlike some of the articles about pitying the pretty women who can’t get to the altar, she should think about the fact that a black 10 might only be a 5 for men of other races.  She might be lobbying to get dates with David Beckham but she might just have to settle for a Ricky Gervais with a nice personality.  That’s not whining.  It’s just a fact.
    Acknowledging our differences and adding our perspective is valid, esp. when I see it reflected so little here.  Although I will say that what is said here still resonates more with me that what I see in black publications and of course the black church’s approach that anything the man wants is okay and you should be fine with it because he is the man and therefore king.
    It’s hard to know what she wants…the white skin or maybe the resume. If it’s the latter, she should focus on that irrespective of race and she’ll probably be pleased with the results.  If it’s the former, well, it’s her choice and I’m not going to criticize it for the reasons that you mentioned since no one comments on Asian women who chase white men for their features.
    And hopefully she reads ALL of these comments because there is a lot of good advice for her, (you figure, not drilling man about his past with black woman falls under the category of just not drilling a man with questions too soon anyway-your answer about whether he’ll commit to a black woman will come if she sticks around and makes you part of his world; also, my friends also found the lack of questions regarding the scarf also were signs that there had other black women in the past so they never bothered to ask if they were the first or tenth black woman).
    I did think the initial comments were so critical and harsh about her choices that it was less likely that she’d give an update if she didn’t read something else here either.

  22. 52
    Joe

    While there may be things wrong with her or an attitude adjustment, you are missing the significant real world problems that Black Women face.  Particularly with Black Men who are players, cannot commit, cheat on them, and may not have jobs.  A professional Black Woman wants a reliable professional, and most professional Black Men meet and date a lot of professional White Women, leaving Black women in the cold.  This Smart, Educated, Professional Black Woman wants help finding and keeping her White Boyfriends and turning them into husbands.  One, she should just get off the pill and get pregnant because if a White man is just using her for sex, he should be mentally ready to have a baby.  Second, its the White Man’s fault for caving into Society’s prejudice against Black People, and fearing He will lose social status or his family will disapprove.  This Black Woman wants and needs a way to re-assure her White Boyfriends that she is “Wife” material, can be a “good mother” and that the “couple” will survive together despite society’s prejudices.  She needs to convey to the White Boyfriend that inte-racial children are acceptable and that their Love and Relationship can stand the test of time.

  23. 53
    Ayeanna

    I’m a black woman who has dated mostly white men and have been in a 3 year relationship with one – an Aussie.  I’d say 99% of the men I’ve dated were white save my ex who was of mixed race.  I love being black and have no problem with my heritage, I’ve dreads, I’ve been a advocate in the community, know my history and where I came from and I think black men are damn sexy.  I’m attracted to and open to all but just have had the experience of dating white men and I will admit that that is where my attraction lies / has been the strongest.  But as SS said, it’s been interesting reading everyone’s opinion about what race she wants to date and being quite negative about it.  

    Maybe let’s try to focus on what the real problem is…

    Jae doesn’t have a problem with her heritage – she likes what she likes and is attracted to that, why should she have to open up and go outside of that if outside of that isn’t what gets her going?  Jae has a problem with the men she choses and as others have pointed out her attitude and ego.  I think she’d do good by having someone help her find a entirely different type of guy because seems like her radar is completely off when it comes to picking winners.  Going outside of the race she wants won’t equal a good partner it might just equal another partner she’s incompatible with.

    I guess the only thing left I had to say if Jae still reads this – if a man… ANY MAN, says to you that you’re their fetish… run for the hills.  He’s telling you right then and then what role you’ll be playing in his life.  I guess that goes for anyone who dates outside of their race.

  24. 54
    Hope

    I whole heartedly agree with SS #50′s posts, mostly because I was (or, somewhat, still am) Jae.  I’m an African American woman who has exclusively dated men outside of my race the past 15 years; primarily Caucasian men, but mostly only because that’s just how things worked out.

    I find men of all colors attractive, but at some point in my life, the things I’ve learned and the interests I’ve had and the hobbies I have come to love seem to lead me to connecting with men outside of my race. I’ll avoid discussing any of the usually mentioned issues of/about/when it comes to the Black male.  I may have not dated them the past decade, but I’ve never spoken ill of them either, as I do love the men of color in my life who are prime examples of what a (Black) man should be all about.  However, when I was younger I was called “weird” or “Trying to be white” by men of color I dated because my interests or way of speaking or likes didn’t fall inside some box most men of color I knew felt comfortable with. And, at some point, I just began to exclusively gravitate emotionally and sexually to men of other races, although I had ALWAYS dated men of all colors. My first boyfriend at at 13 was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed young man. 

    However, my issue is I’ve been single almost ten years and rarely date (not really asked), mostly due to some of the frustration that Jae communicated in her post.  Either they show no interest at all or, if they do, you’re quickly called things like “chocolate” or “mocha” in messages and asked “Do you date White men?” (which irritates me, because it’s an antiquated and irritating question) and viewed as someone they’d love to hang out with and have sex with, but not commit themselves to in any way.  I have only guessed, in my history, it is because I’m Black.

    But, something happened this year.  I met a man of color that I was immediately attracted to. We seemed to share the same interests, the same type of communication, the same hobbies, the same career paths, the same traits.  I think we’re even the same sign. However, I made note that he is bi-racial (Black and White). I began to realize that the type of man I’ve been running from for so long is actually the type of man I need to date in order to find true connection beyond favorite albums and favorite books and fun sex positions like I did with White men.   While not a necessity, it did strike me that being a bi-racial Black man lead me to feel more of a connection with him than any non-Black man I’ve dated or “kinda dated” over the past fifteen years. I think his being biracial helped me find a man I connected with both mentally and sexually, as well as make me feel as though we share a common background through one of his parents. 
    And while I still have my preference for tall blonde men with green eyes (something I feel Jae is 100% owed and due without any judgments or labels as racist or self-hating) I do certainly understand the importance of being open to any man, despite his ethnicity. It took me over a decade of singleness to understand it. I believe Jae will too and, if she doesn’t, it’s ok and not our place to judge.  Because, as SS states, just like Caucasian men who date Asian women exclusively and unapologetically or Black men who date Caucasian women without being called racists or bigots, Jae has her preference and we should all respect her and respect them.

    She simply has to find a way to better weed out with these Caucasian men who are only seeing, and caring (or choosing not to her for her because of) her color. That’s exactly what I’m doing as we speak.

  25. 55
    SS

    Hope, great response and congratulations on your new love interest! I hope it works out for you two!
     
    I was also single for 10 years (even though I dated frequently) and I’m sure that my options were limited to a degree by my race. I did date black men, but contrary to what Evan stated, I found that I didn’t have a greater likelihood of finding marriage with them because of our similar racial backgrounds. Some simply were not interested in marriage for another 10 years or so and yes, some simply were not interested in dating black women.

    I tried to limit my exposure to the non-black men who wanted only “chocolate fantasies” and I actually found I did better dating Caucasian men that I met “in real life” versus online, and found better luck with black men online versus “in real life.” Ultimately, i married a Caucasian man I met in real life, but I made sure to pay attention to his behavior early (as I would with any man) to make sure of his intentions. I still would have been open to black men (or other men) as well… because as you said, you never know when you could discover that what you’ve been looking for all along came in a package that wasn’t your initial preference!

  26. 56
    m

    Jae -
    What you want is a QUALITY man, irrespective of race.
    That said, you may need advice a little more subtle than what you’ve received here.
    Evan’s advice, while potentially useful as far as it goes, doesn’t quite cover the nuances of dating in a racist society (and, FTM, racist world).
    (Also, just from what I’ve read, your approach may need to be a touch more subtle as well — just from the way you write, I have a sneaking feeling there are some more concepts you may want to give some thought as you hone your approach.)
    If you Google “quality man” and “interracial”, you may find some things that may supplement the material you find here.
    Best of luck to you.

  27. 57
    m

    ” most men, particularly white men, would not want to marry a black woman”
    This may well be numerically accurate in the US — after all, there are more white people in the US than black, so there would be more white men than black women, so if all those men were polled, that proposition might well play out — but I think it’s a distortion as a statement.
    There are a lot of white men paired with black women who are kept out of the media spotlight (for reasons I won’t get into now).
    Wolfgang Puck (Spago, Granita) is married to a black woman.
    Peter Norton (Norton Securities – you know, on your computer?) is married to a black woman.
    The Princess of Lichtenstein is a black woman, as is one of the Baronesses of Monaco.
    Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen is married to Janet Langhart, also black.
    And then, of course, there’s Iman and David Bowie.
    It happens far more often than people realize.  It’s just not brought out — or, rather, it’s de-emphasized — in the common media.
     

  28. 58
    A-L

    Several posters have commented about the availability of comparable black men and women. I was interested to see what the differential was, so I went on to Match.com. The basic search was for blacks, ages 26-40, with a bachelor’s degree or higher, no kids, and within 35 miles of New Orleans.

    39 men met the qualifications
    77 women met the same qualifications

    Same parameters were used for Atlanta, considered a mecca for black professionals.

    617 men met the criteria
    1316 women met the criteria

    And in San Francisco

    222 men met the criteria
    315 women met the criteria

    In two of the three areas, half of black women would not have a “comparable” male equivalent, and in the other one third would be left out in the cold.

    I then took race out of the equation, and just searched for individuals 26-40 who had at least a college degree and no children.

    New Orleans (same 35 mile radius as before)

    610 men met the criteria
    506 women met the criteria

    Atlanta (10 mile radius was needed to get below 2000+ hits):

    969 men met the criteria
    1233 women met the criteria

    San Francisco: couldn’t do, everything was 2000+ results even when it was down to a 2 mile radius

    The population-at-large in these two metropolitan areas shows a much more even split between males and females, improving women’s odds significantly of finding a comparable mate.

    Just a little FYI.

  29. 59
    Tia

    hmm wow, yeah that was a rant lol. and i think she made Black women look desperate. date who you want but don’t expect white men to  be the magic pill and want to marry you.. They are just men my dear, i can tell you that, men are men and they all have their faults and hangups like the rest of us humans. 

    Do not exclude  whole race of men, what if ur mensch turns out to a black guy, or an asian guy or an arab guy.   I do understand some of the racial components in this letter as a black woman, but a man is usually VERY quick to show u thats all he wants and you can move on b4 you ever sleep with him. He will make it known  most of the time. Luckily ,  I have not had this problem with the White guys i have dated. I have had that experience more with Asian Latino, Indian. etc. go figure. I think Evan is right, she needs to be a bit more humble and start looking at people for people, not just mr. white knight and start focusing on the man underneath.

  30. 60
    J.A.

    @ M:  I agree that the media doesn’t really promote WM/BF relationships as much as BM/WF relationships.  Why do you think that is though?  I think it’s because for whatever reason, BM/WF coupling is seen as more fashionable in the media.  What does everybody else think?

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