How You Can Transform Your Man on a First Date

If you find that your dates consistently don’t go well, the easy thing to do is say, “He wasn’t the right guy.” However, it’s much more powerful for you to look in the mirror and say, “How could I have made tonight go better?”

I can already hear you sigh:

“But I don’t WANT to make my first dates better. If a guy is nervous around me, that says something about him. I want a man who is confident, who is completely comfortable in his own skin, and can make the best of every situation.”

Gotcha.

Now imagine a time that you were in the presence of a jaw-droppingly hot guy. He’s tall, gorgeous, rich, charismatic – and utterly oblivious to you as a romantic partner.

If you find that your dates consistently don’t go well, the easy thing to do is say, “He wasn’t the right guy.”

Do you feel confident?

Do you feel secure?

Do you speak profusely?

Do you clam up?

Whatever your answer, I’m pretty sure that there are some men whose mere presence totally messes you up.

Suddenly, you’re not acting like yourself.

Suddenly, you’re acting like a skittish schoolgirl with her first crush on a boy.

There are awkward silences. There is nervous laughter. There is stilted conversation.

But most of all, there is no chance for another date.

So if you’ve blown an opportunity with a hot guy because you weren’t able to act at your best, wouldn’t it stand to reason that there’s a great guy out there who wasn’t on the top of his game on your first date?

Damn right.

It also stands to reason that when you show up 10 minutes late, text on your cell phone, look over his shoulder, lean back with your arms crossed, don’t seem interested in his stories, interrogate him about his past, grill him on his beliefs, and dissect every single thing that you don’t like about him… that it may be hard for a man to have true confidence and poise in your presence.

Your takeaway from this short blog post is this:

Instead of seeing dating as a time-consuming, soul-sucking enterprise, where you have to figure out in an hour whether he’s a good husband and father and great in bed, try seeing it more like you’re entertaining a client and want to win his business.

Smile. Laugh. Go with the flow. Ignore his flaws. Do everything in your power to make the limited amount of time you have together into a fun experience.

Because if you’re having fun, he’s having fun.

If you’re easygoing and relaxed, he’ll be easygoing and relaxed.

But you can’t blame men for being bad dates if you’re not doing anything in your power to try to make their job easier.

As I wrote in Why He Disappeared, he’s putting on a show for you; the least you can do is applaud.

What you’ll quickly find is that the men you go out with are suddenly more confident, playful, and attractive, all because YOU decided to make them feel special.

It’s pretty magical when you can do this – on a first date and beyond.

Be a better woman and you will bring out a better side in your man.

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Comments:

  1. 31
    amy

    @henriette: I’m a landlord, which is a good way of finding out that the way people initially represent themselves may have nothing whatsoever to do with how they generally behave. If you want your faith in humanity damaged, or tweaked severely, work in a field that involves background checks.
     
    I don’t meet a guy without checking court and property records and doing a thorough googlestalk. If a guy’s honest, you’ll find out. If he’s been arrested repeatedly, you’ll also find out. If he’s married, you’ll find out. You’ll know if he has friends and have a sense of what kind of people his friends are, how he talks when he’s casual.
     
    Leading a guy on sexually when you know little about him, and little about his past — not self-reported, but as the records go — is a dangerous game. You don’t know how he’ll take it or how he generally reacts to frustration. There are two people involved in the kiss, remember? It’s not just about you checking him out, you’re not at Macy’s. Enough women find out that a guy’s trouble only after they’ve been involved for months; there are reasons cities have domestic-violence shelters and hotlines, why there are such things as restraining orders, rape kits, and stalking-awareness classes. Don’t invite trouble by removing more screens, and don’t jump in like it’s nothing. For a lot of guys it’s not nothing.
     
     

  2. 32
    helene

    Hespeler

    I hate to say it, but I think your date didn’t find you sexually assertive enough. When she said “so what do you wanna do?” She clearly wanted to continue the evening, but you didn’t take her up on it. You said she had been drinking wine out of your glass – that is a signal I sometimes use too, but ONLY if I’m  strongly sexually attracted to a guy as I think its a very sensual, intimate thing to do and a clear “come-on” to a guy….. I generally WOULDN’T do it on a first date unless I was just looking for a hook-up.

    So she drank from your glass, she indicated she wanted to extend the evening, she initiated the open-mouth kissing… and you STILL didn’t invite her back to your place??! What more did she have to do – strip in the street??!I realise that as a man you don’t want to ruin your chances by pushing things too fast if the woman’s not ready – but she clearly WAS ready! You have to be able to pick up on that too! Maybe she liked you so much she was throwing caution to the wind and wanted to have sex on the first date, maybe she ws just horny and just wanted to have sex, and there’s no way of knowing if you HAD had sex with her that things would have developed into a meaningful relationship, but I think she was put off (and possibly even insulted) by your lack of sexual leadership. When a woman goes as far as that on a first date and all she gets from a guy is “I’ll call you” then its a real downer. I once invited a guy back to my place on our third date and he never even put his arm round me, just sat on the sofa and chattered on about motorbikes – I felt mortified! Rejected just doesn’t even begin to cover it.
    Anyway, we live and learn…. 

  3. 33
    Ruby

    Hespeler’s story is interesting to me because he’s being chided for not being assertive enough. However, if the genders were reversed and Hespeler was being the more sexually assertive one, and the woman didn’t take him up on anything that evening, but wanted to see him again, we’d be dissing the man as only being after sex. Well, perhaps his date was just looking for sex too, otherwise, wouldn’t she have been more open to seeing him again? After all, he did follow up again just a couple of days later. 

    I used to think that people on a subscription dating site would be more serious about being in a relationship because they were paying for the service, but I’ve met plenty of men who were just there to casually date. I’m sure some women are doing the same. It sounds like Hespeler and his date were not on the same page in that respect. 

  4. 34
    Nicole

    @Ruby,
    Good point.

    @Hespeler, if you are looking for a real relationship and your date wanted a fling, there is nothing you can really do about that.  It’s just like anything else.  You wanted someone who either didn’t want you or who didn’t want what you wanted.  It happens all of the time.  And don’t get so caught up in a fantasy about what could have been just b/c you found her so attractive.  You never knew her so you need to let it go.

  5. 35
    Michael17

    Ruby and Nicole:
     
    I agree with helene. The roles of the genders in the courtship process aren’t the same. Men are about initiative, women are about receptivity. If a woman is that sexually receptive and we turn her down, she shuts down to us.
    If you weren’t into a girl who did that, then the way you handled it was fine. But if you are into her and you want to see her again, then you better realize that she was putting herself out there for you.
    I wonder if this girl felt rejected by you. At the very least, hespeler, you needed to set up the second date then and there.
    Sometimes flings can turn to relationships by the way.
     
     

    1. 35.1
      Lily

      Sometimes flings can turn into relationships that end two years later because you were so hot for each other you both ignored incompatibilities. Lesson learned.  No more sex on the second date!
      I just found out on the FIFTH phone call that a man was seriously anti-semitic. I am not Jewish myself; in fact, I enjoy dating Jewish men. I found this man’s ignorant, intolerant stances highly offensive. I am so glad I did not fall into bed with him before getting to know him a bit more first. He seemed, in fact, to be much of what I was looking for. He had his doctorate and was a good conversationalist and a good father… I have never run into a highly educated person who was that intolerant before. Yuck!

  6. 36
    amy

    @ evan – I think it is leading someone on to try and make them like you. And the alternative is not to show them how uninterested you are, but to be genuine. Pleasant, but genuine.
    I feel your comment was detrimental to women, making them robots – phony, laughing, “sales” people hoping to just get someone to like them.
    If you KNOW you don’t like your date and you have NO intention of seeing them again, DON’T be the clown, entertaining them just so they’ll like you.
    Be nice, be pleasant, be open, but don’t mislead people.

  7. 37
    hespeler

    EMK – Firstly, let me apologize.  It was not my intent to hijack this thread with my disappointing story.  I figured it might be a good example to help underscore this particular blog, namely that if you put your best foot forward and make your date feel good, you may find people chomping at the bit to see you again.  You can then begin to pick and choose who you spend time with as opposed to going out with someone just for the sake of well, going out.  If you have some humility, you may find it difficult or exhausting turning people away (I have) but it’s certainly better than not ever getting to date two. 

    I’ve been in the shoes of the girl I described many times – I’ve politley declined second dates and didn’t lose any sleep over it as I expected this girl didn’t lose an ounce of sleep over me.

    I’ll answer some of the other comments and I hope this will continue to add to the discussion rather than just make it about me and my story.

    To the comment about liking the conversation but not feeling much chemistry and trying to manufacture some with a make-out.  I think this helps illustrate what was mentioned earlier in the thread – women date by feel and men date with their heads.  I will admit the kiss was not some of my best work.  Not to make excuses but we were both chewing gum (she gave it to me), it was very cold out and we both had big coats on; it was not ideal conditions.  I took all of that into account and I’m not sure she did or would have (if that was in fact the reason for the no-go).

    As far as not establishing a second date right on the spot.  It’s funny, a girl that I know who is also very attractive told me that I showed too much interest because I made it clear that I liked her (I told her being out with her that night was my pleasure, I held out her seat for her, etc.).  She said that when dealing with a “10”, one needs to stand out by backing off the trigger a little bit.  By not doing so, I was just another guy fawning all over her.  Who knows?

    As far as not being sexually assertive enough, I will say that I typically do not go into dates with that mindset as I am interested in a LTR.  Further, she was my 3rd date (wasn’t interested in the first two)that week and I was also gently ending a 3-month relationship with a girl that was wonderful but just not for me.  All this is to say that I was pretty strung out the night I went out on the date.  It was all I could do to stay engaged and show her a good time.  I decided to quit while I was ahead so to speak and live to fight another day.

    I went in with the mindset that this was an online date (so I was meeting a stranger), that she was in her mid-30’s and has a child at home, so I went into it like a gentleman displaying restraint.  Besides what I mentioned in my original post, there was no sexual innendo in the conversation at all.  Further, her neighbor was watching her kid and I thought it might be presumptuous to ask her back to my place.  I may have misread it, who knows?

    I texted her when I got home that night telling her I had a really nice time and she never responded which I felt uneasy about.  It also lead me to believe that her mind was made up as soon as she got in the car.  I let a day go by without a response from her and the day after that I called her and she answered telling me she would call back as she was out with her daughter.  Never got a call back and a day and a half later I received her text which essentially shut the door.  At this point she could have just let it go and disappeared but she took the time to write back telling me she doesn’t want to waste my time.  I took it as her telling me not to waste my time as she wasn’t interested but it could also have meant she didn’t want to waste my time becasue we were looking for different things.  Who knows?

    It could very well be that she likes going on first dates and getting attention but is having a hard time making up her mind on who she wants to date further.  I saw her on Match a lot in the weeks following our date, to include Valentine’s Day so maybe she’s just very picky.  Who knows?

    This person may have very well turned out to be all wrong for me and I agree with the previous comment that it’s not worth getting caught up in a fantasy.  But alas, fantasies are very strong and it’s not easy to let go…

  8. 38
    Michael17

    hespeler–
     
    Yes, women date by feel. And when you didn’t take more initiative towards the end of the date despite all she did, she didn’t feel good.
     
    I agree that being overeager is bad. But “being overeager” is showing a lot of interest in someone who hardly did anything to win you over–except for looking good. This woman *was* doing things to win you over. You didn’t really acknowledge that.
     
    Yep, we live and learn…

  9. 39
    Still-Looking

    Hespeler –
    We will spend the rest of our lives trying to figure women out (and women will do the same regarding men).  You acted the way you felt was appropriate and she lost interest.  You could have been more aggressive and then if she lost interest you’d be kicking yourself for misreading her signals.  I’ve been in your shoes plenty of times and I’m sure plenty of women you have taken out have wondered why you didn’t call for a second date. 
    Quit obsessing (I know, I know, easier said than done) and move on.  I learned my lesson the hard way and now find my dating life is much more enjoyable when I don’t pursue the 10s.   

  10. 40
    hespeler

    Michael #40,
    I am not completely disagreeing with you but if that was the case, I don’t see why she wouldn’t entertain the idea of a second date?  I mean if anything, I would think she would be saying – who does this guy think he is, I’m sending him all these signals and he can take it or leave it?  I think that would create more interest on her part.  And I did send her that “feel good” text and called her subsequent to that.  She knew I was calling because I was interested.
    Either way, I made it completely obvious that I liked her.  Even after she sent me the thanks but no thanks text I told her something along the lines of – “whoever winds up with you will be a lucky guy, sorry you feel that way, I had a very nice time with you the other night.”  If she needs more than that, well then maybe we weren’t a match.
    Also, remember that we are talking about two members of Match.com; the world of serial dating.  I went into the date looking for a potential LTR.  She might have just been checking out the scene.  I did see her poking around on there for the last two months, probably wading through the 100 e-mails a day she gets.  She can be picky if she wants to.
    Michael #41,
    You’re completely right.  If I could just erase it from my memory I would but I guess it doesn’t work like that.  The bad thing is that I genuinely thought that she was the most interesting (aside from her looks which were also exactly to my taste) Match date I’ve had, and I’ve had A LOT of Match dates.  I hate to say it but I went on a couple of dates after her rejection and I stacked them up against her and of course, I wasn’t nearly as interested.  No second date for those girls.  I shouldn’t have even bothered as my heart wasn’t in it.  That wasn’t fair to them.
    I will admit, I think most guys would call her a 10 but I wasn’t “10 hunting” when I contacted her.  She just happened to be very receptive right off the bat and I went with it.  If she didn’t write back I would have just forgotten about her.
    I’m moving on but I’m taking a break from dating for a little while.  I’ve had some opportunities recently that I’ve passed up so I know I’m kind of burned out.

  11. 41
    quinn

    @Hespeler

    If I were you I would contact her again.  I have given a couple of men a second look because they came back later saying they would still like the chance to take me out.  Can’t hurt, right? 

  12. 42
    Kenley

    @43 Quinn

    In this instance, I think it would be harmful for him to ask her out again.  He’s semi-obsessed with her as it is.  He has posted about his date with her on this blog a couple of times. He has admitted he can’t get her off is mind and is comparing other women to her..not good.  He has been monitoring her activity on Match for at least 2 months….really not good.   

    After the date, this woman’s words and actions indicated that she was not interested in seeing him again.  It’s over.  For his own peace of mind, he needs to move on. 

    What I find most interesting about his post, is how supportive and sympathetic people have been — as if a really nice guy got burned by an overly picky, sex hungry siren.  What I see, on the other hand, is a guy who is upset and confused because the woman he wanted had the nerve to “discard” him the way he admits he routinely discards the women he dates.   I don’t think this is about a bruised heart; I think it’s about a bruised ego.  Karma is a bitch.    

  13. 43
    hespeler

    Quinn #43,

    Really?  That has been suggested to me by co-workers.  It’s been over 2 months now.  I’ve had to resist the urge to contact her.  I just felt that her text has shut the door and she’s probably been on 10 dates since ours.  If she was really interested, she wouldn’t have let me back in to the dating pool so easy.  Also, if she is receptive, I would think it would be due to frustration or loneliness.  I don’t want to be anyone’s stopgap.

    Two things:

    What would you suggest I say?  And more importantly, of the guys you gave a second look to, has anything materialized, either casual or something more?

  14. 44
    Ruby

    hespeler #45

    <<I hate to say it but I went on a couple of dates after her rejection and I stacked them up against her and of course, I wasn’t nearly as interested.  No second date for those girls.  I shouldn’t have even bothered as my heart wasn’t in it.  That wasn’t fair to them>>

    Has it occurred to you that maybe your date was doing the same thing with you? I’m in agreement with Kenley (#44). It’s one date, people! Time to move on.

  15. 45
    Nicole

    @Hespeler, 
    Don’t contact that woman again.  She is not interested.  As Evan already told you, a mature, polite adult is perfectly capable of being charming and nice to a date even if he/she doesn’t want a second one.

    Not everyone is so offended by the idea of having to sit through dinner with someone that they never want to have sex with that they have to be rude or make it clear that you’ve been rejected.

    You are reading too much into the fact that a charming lady that you found very attractive was nice to you.  I don’t drink out of strangers glasses but plenty of people are okay with that.  It is not a sign of love at first sight.  Some people are flirty in daily life, and again, it can just be a personality type and not a sign of attraction.  And as someone pointed out, unless you are rude and immature, you were probably nice enough to the women that you never wanted to see again either.

    I would imagine that she kissed you to test the chemistry, b/c some people I think do believe that you need to do that to feel a “spark.”

    Whether your want to see someone again or not, being nice and friendly is better than not, and most adults understand what if you don’t return their email/text/call then it is time to move on.  She was not being receptive to your follow-up.  You were right to contact her again once quickly to let her know of your interest, but after she blew you off, you needed to let it drop.

    I’m sorry you were so disappointed by this fantasy woman, but you are reading too much into what she did.  Plenty of people close dates saying “let’s do this again” or “I’d like to see you again” but a)sometimes they mean it, b)sometimes they do not, and c)sometimes they are not sure.

    At any rate, few people are able to reject people to their face.  It just seems too mean. 

    This whole thing is a big merry go round and eventually you’ll meet someone who is ready to hop off at the same time as you.  Until then, there is no point in pining for someone who wants to continue the journey.  I’m sure someone out there is lamenting the fact that you never called HER again, despite the lovely evening you enjoyed.   

    But you will DOOM all future dates by creating a fantasy picture of this lady and comparing everyone to her.  She was charming, and you found your attractive, but she was clearly not your match.

    But circling back around to the original post, it sounds like your date had this technique down pat…she had you probably acting like your best self, feeling comfortable and confident so she did at least achieve that goal of transforming you on the first date.   

  16. 46
    Goldie

    As someone who’s BTDT, I have to reply to this, from Kenley’s post #44:
     
    “What I find most interesting about his post, is how supportive and sympathetic people have been — as if a really nice guy got burned by an overly picky, sex hungry siren.  What I see, on the other hand, is a guy who is upset and confused because the woman he wanted had the nerve to “discard” him the way he admits he routinely discards the women he dates.   I don’t think this is about a bruised heart; I think it’s about a bruised ego.  Karma is a bitch.”
     
    First of all, show of hands, who here has not “discarded” at least one person they’d dated? We’d still be with our high school sweethearts if we hadn’t ever “discarded” anyone, amirite? Since we’re not, I figure we aren’t in a position to cast stones here. Moving on…
     
    Yeah, being led on and then dropped like a hot potato hurts. I don’t care if it’s a bruised heart, a bruised ego, or if, as in my case, I’d gotten so many mixed messages that I was confused out of my mind (finding out that he’d probably had a GF all along, and that he’d spent the night at her place right after his date with me, and two days before his next date with me, didn’t help things either!!) — going from being told that the other person is interested, to being told that he/she isn’t and never was, is still painful. So let’s give the guy a break here.
     
    Which leads me to my next point, @Hespeler #39:
     
    “Further, her neighbor was watching her kid and I thought it might be presumptuous to ask her back to my place.  I may have misread it, who knows?”
     
    Are you kidding me? Do you think it would’ve felt better if she’d dropped you after sex, rather than before? not from my experience, it wouldn’t! Looks like she gave you a fairly clean break, which is more than what I got from the person I’ve been referring to. Consider yourself lucky and please don’t second-guess yourself. It really does sound that there’s no way you could’ve gotten a second date from this person.
     
    “I did see her poking around on there for the last two months, probably wading through the 100 e-mails a day she gets. “
     
    FWIW, Match is a royal mess in this regard, showing people as active when they’re not. It showed me as active two months after I got off it and canceled my subscription — I found out by accident when someone I’d dated a few months prior, got a link to my profile in an email of his “daily matches”, and warned me. She may or may not be “poking around there”, she may be off the site and in a relationship for all we know. Not that it changes anything… I agree with the rest on here that you still need to move on and pretend she never existed.
     
    I’ve got to say it’s easier to be a woman than a man in Hespeler’s situation. All I did was update my OKC profile to add two lines at the very end, saying “I’m just out of a bad breakup, and am not up for anything serious right now” (or something of that nature)… I then proceeded to have probably the best three months of my life since college. (Nothing too wild, just had a lot of fun and made very cool new friends.) If a guy tries to put the same statement on his profile, he’ll probably get the opposite results… life isn’t fair.

  17. 47
    hespeler

    Goldie #48,

    Thanks.  Much appreciated.  Fact is I went through a pretty difficult divorce and even though it was only one date, I’m a bit hyper-sensitive to having a 180 done on me.

    Nicole #47,

    I agree with every word you said and of course the most rational part of me knows this and knew it from the start.  I don’t plan on contacting her again and if I ever ran into her in public, I’d politley say hi and leave it at that.

    Kenley #44,

    I haven’t been monitoring her activity; I’ve just seen her on as I was scrolling through is all.

    Karma is certainly a bitch.  Everything I’ve done in my dating life has inevtibaly come back to bite me 10 times over so this is pretty much par for the course.

    I’ll also add that I’m not looking for sympathy and I assure you this is not about a bruised ego.  I’ve been fed soo much humble pie in the last few years I probably couldn’t fit anymore in.  I’ve been rejected before by a few women who I found highly attractive but I forgot about them in a few days because I knew that it would not have worked (I was just interested in them physically).  This last one was potential GF material (potentially – I’ll never know for sure).  Moreover, I am kind of picky, not from an ego standpoint.  Believe me, I beat myself up over my pickiness.  So it’s pretty damn frustrating to come so close to a potential opportunity only to have it slip through your fingers.

    As an attractive women, she could have lined up 20 dates for the rest of the week without much of a problem.  I could tell from the tone of her rejection that this was no big deal to her whatsoever.  She almost made it look as if it was good news. But I knew that going back to the drawing board would mean sending out tons of e-mails and maybe getting one back that I was remotely interested in.  And just as I knew it would, I hit a cold streak in the weeks following which just compounded the problem.

    I was aggravated with online dating before this date so this just really pushed me over the edge.  I just need to take a break from it for a while.

    Believe me, I tell myself EVERYDAY how ridiculous it is to think about a woman who hasn’t given you a second thought since she discarded you.  Easier said than done.

    I will say though, I’m no prude but if you take the time to meet someone online, talk to them on the phone, meet them and have a few drinks, and kiss them.  That to me is a sign of intimacy.  Yes I have done it too.  Though it was mostly me obliging the women (I say this with all due humility).  I guess it may be a fundamental difference between men and women.  I don’t need to kiss a girl to know if there’s chemistry.  I kiss a girl because there is chemistry.

  18. 48
    hespeler

    Nicole #47,

    Your merry go round comment is very poignant.  Going back to the original blog post, I think it’s best to do your best on every date and be hopeful there is some chemistry and both perople are looking to get off the merry-go-round.

    I was once told of the acronym: ACT which stands for Attraction, Chemistry, and Timing and I think most relationships start when all three are present.

  19. 49
    Ria

    Funny, how when tables are turned, all of a sudden, even the most experienced in dating and opposite sex completely turn the other way around. Karma is a bitch, yet again, ld say its life and this happens to the best of us.
    The only thing l could say to this man is that  – and it sounds really cliche´-  cutting off dating completely isnt gonna be the answer either, cos guess what – you sit at home, burned and miserable, thinking of your Goddess, (asking us – should l text her- and we say no-)  where does that lead you? You are being in the point of no progress, and belive me, time in this case is a bad healer.

    The prospects of dating may seem very bad now, because obiously that lady has set the limits of women so high that most of the females would fail miserably in the scale of  Goddess versus Ordinary, but l think what stops the action most, is the thought that there is noone out there like her, and as the idea of settleing is absolutely no-go, so why bother. Let us watch a footy and crab a beer.

    Wrong thinking!

    Having said all that, there is still one thing l could suggest to do with this woman, which may bring some clarification, but since this is Evan´s blog and he gives advices, lm not gonna say a thing:) You need to figure it out yourself, H.   

          

     

  20. 50
    hespeler

    Ria #52,
    I’ve thought about it but it’s been 2 months now.  If I reached out to her for clarification it would look pretty weird.  I rather keep my dignity in tact.
    Funny thing is, I politely declined a second date from a girl at the very same time I was getting rejected.  The difference is she pressed for an answer.  I lied and told her that I was seeing someone else and wanted to see where it would go to spare her feelings.  I would imagine if I reached out to this girl now, she would placate me or just ignore me making me feel worse.  Furthermore, if she does tell the truth, I might either love (I’m crazy and am afraid of getting involved with someone right now) or hate (I don’t date guys with receding hairlines) her answer.  I rather just leave it alone at this point.
    With respect to your other point about continuing to date, you may have a point.  The thing is, I am tired of going on dates where I only have a mild interest.  Getting dates with women I have a strong interest in happens few and far between.  That said, I am in communication with a girl I happen to find very attractive and interesting as well even though her age is a bit older than I would like.  The thing is, lately, when I ask for a girls number, she disappears even though I’m not doing anything different than I have been all along.  Alright well maybe I’ve become a little more impatient with the whole process.  I mean, if we’re just supposed to size each other up when we meet, why bother with drawn out e-mail correspondence.  But I’ll play the game and see where it goes…

  21. 51
    Michael17

    I already said my peace about Hespeler needing to step up more when she was giving him so many signals, and I stick by that viewpoint. That said, I think several of you in the meanwhile are being too hard on Hespeler.
     
    This girl has been on H’s mind a lot. So what. We have all gotten hung up on that one special person. And in the meanwhile, H hasn’t hurt anyone. So I don’t agree with some of you, in that I do not think H is some semi-obsessed weirdo–by any stretch.
     
    And all of us have passed up on other people who were very nice because for whatever reason–even due to something going on on our end, we just weren’t feeling it. So no, from what I have read so far, I do NOT think karma owed H a slap in the face.
     
    What was H supposed to do in the meanwhile? Not try to meet anyone else, and just stay home and mope instead? Just as you women have the right to go on dates with other guys when the man you really want to be with isn’t available to you, so does H.

  22. 52
    That East Asian Man

    Dear Evan. Your blog post reminds me of a passage from Duke Robinson’s wonderful book, Good Intentions: The Nine Unconscious Mistakes of Nice People (emphasis in the original):

    “[P]ractice accepting everyone you know and everyone you meet. In other words, you would not require people to pass any sort of test before you’re willing to [accept] them. You would practice unconditional love.

    “A primary purpose of the experiment would be to see if unconditional acceptance will liberate others from trying to please you all the time and thereby bring authenticity to your relationships. … It’s also important to note that you would not immediately be accepting people to please them or get them to like you. That’s the old trap … So you would not let anyone walk on you. …

    “I’m betting you’ll experience the irresistible paradox everyone finds who tries it: Do something for people they don’t deserve and withhold judgment they do deserve, and you enrich yourself. In other words, love them as they are for their benefit, and the one who gets the most out of it is you.

    “Another side benefit of this experiment is that your acceptance can enable people to be positive and loving toward themselves and others, including, and especially, you. Not everyone will be immediately changed. But love always has been contagious. In a mysterious yet preditable fashion, it reproduces itself, radically transforming people, bringing out the best in them and moving them toward healthy relationships and wholeness.”

     

  23. 53
    Ria

    @H – One thing that most of the dating coaches (esp.Evan) points out is that dating isn´t a rose garden. Its far from perfection – you meet, you get disapointed, rejected, chased down, you need to do a lot of diplomatic debate (if someone asks you question WHY), white lies, explanations, calls, drinks, dinners, clothing up, internet research, you get ignored and then you meet individuals, that make you think OMG…man, its a hard work!! l would rather hire an assistant or ask my family to get me arranged.

    But the thing is – if you dont give up, the effort eventually pays off. I can bet on that one. The more picky you are, (and picky is good, btw) the more you should not give up.

    Regarding to non answered calls, by women after you have asked and called, there could be many reasons, but these days women get more and more -educated- in terms of dating and paying attention to how they feel. And they act a little bit like a man. If they dont feel it, they just drop it. Maybe the reason they do this is also that they pick something up about you (this guy is bad news, cos he is still in love with his ex, maybe?). Dont underestimate this, women are very intuitive, esp. ones with dating experiences.

  24. 54
    justme

    That East Asian Man: @55. 

    Liked your quotes so much just went and ordered the book.  Hope I like it as well.

    Thanks
      

  25. 55
    hespeler

    Michael17 #54,

    Thank you.  I’m actually not a weirdo at all.  I’ve been dating for the last 3 years and she was the first girl that I genuinely felt excited and interesting about since my divorce.  Prior to that, I’ve gone on a lot of dates with girls that I was lukewarm about and some that I went out with a few times which just confirmed my initial feeling.  Sprinkle in a couple of 3-4 month relationships with girls that didn’t work out, one because of distance, the other I forced because she was so nice but I just wasn’t attracted to her and I was about ready to get off the merry go round.  Also, as I mentioned I got hit with my fair share of karma through all of my dating and I felt I had a little equity and that maybe it was just my time to get a break.  I’m a pragmatist and I understand finding someone is work but I allowed the romantic in me to come out a little bit and think that maybe it was my time.  And wouldn’t you know it, the one I actually like doesn’t like me back.  It just seems as though if I have any interest, then it’s a foregone conclusion she won’t want to see me again (an no I’m not doing anything different around the ones I like).

    I tend to side with the folks that are saying she probably just wasn’t that into me but if you’re hypothesis is correct than I definitely missed out on a lot of fun…

    Also, I have to admit after giving it some thought, it has been a blow to my ego and self-esteem.  You start to wonder if you’re able to attract the type of people you want.  It seems as though (and I’m sure others have felt this too) that I’m just good looking and interesting enough to get a date here and there with beautiful, smart, interesting women but not good looking or interesting enough to keep them interested.

    I guess I just felt that we had some chemistry (maybe not the type of chemistry you see in the movies) and it would have been great to explore it a little more on a second date, I wasn’t looking to marry this girl or anything like that.  It takes two to tango though.

    Ria #56,

    Dating is tough no doubt.  You have to keep trying to have fun through it all which is a challenge in itself.

    I remember her saying that she thinks that Match is awkward and how she met a lot of nice guys but found them uninteresting.  Also how she gets bomarded with e-mails.  I actually thought by breaking through and getting a date with her relatively easy, that I was a person she had a high degree of interest in.  I’ll know better the next time I’m dealing with an in-demand woman that I’m just a number and will try not to get my hopes too high.  Kinda sucks to go into like that though.

  26. 56
    Ria

    H, next time you spot on a woman you really like, l suggest you not to go for “I’ll know better the next time I’m dealing with an in-demand woman that I’m just a number and will try not to get my hopes too high.” mode, because first – its a funkiller to have some preconceptional stamp ideas like this, second not all *goddess* women think alike, although they get a lot of att.yes, and third, no its not like they sit at the computer and count the number like stockraise. If they like someone, they like someone, because their self esteem does not depend of the high number emails they get, but the quality what is in the emails.

    You seem to be very interesting to talk to and intelligent, hence you got the date with her that easily and l belive she enjoyed the date.  

  27. 57
    helene

    Hespeler

    You said ” I’ll know better the next time I’m dealing with an in-demand woman that I’m just a number and will try not to get my hopes too high.”
      I really think you’re going down the wrong track here. From what you’ve said, there is nothing to indicate that you are not interesting enough or good looking enough for this type of woman – on the contrary, I get the impression that you have all that stuff in place. But you’re not capitalising on your potential. Ita your assertiveness and manly behaviour that are holding you back, not your conversation or looks. The type of woman you are attracted to – from your descriptions of this particular woman – is not shy, insecure or timid. You need to outdo her in confidence and attitude, so you need to INCREASE your self confidence and talk your self up in your own mind, not lower your hopes and think “I’m just a number to her.”  This woman, when she agrees to go on a date with you, is not thinking “oh well, I think I’ll sign up for  another so-so evening with a nice guy who’s not very interesting….” She’s hoping, just HOPING that you will be the one who sweeps her off her feet, who stands out from the crowd with his charisma, self assurance and manliness.
    Be that man. Women like her are desperately looking for you.
      

  28. 58
    hespeler

    Ria and Helene,

    Good stuff!  That really struck a chord.  This woman was not shy but I did sense a reserve about her that just said, “lead and I will follow.”  I’m not saying I would have got a second date but I do now believe that if I were a little more assertive I MAY have had a better chance.   I have to say I can be that guy.  I guess I just have become tired of the online dating scene and I started to go on these date like I was on auto-pilot.

    I recall when she said she gets all of these e-mails that my humility came out and I said, “I guess I should be flattered then that I’m on a date with you.”  It wasn’t from a lack of confidence, just humility, but I can see how that can come across as non-assertive or not confident.

    I will say though, I’m not sure what more I can do on a first (online) date which is really just a getting to know the other person session.  It’s not like I was awkward or anti-social throughout the date. 

    I have to laugh at all of the girls that write, “I’m looking for a guy to sweep me off my feet.”  On a first meeting with a stranger?  Look I know that sounds defeatist and unromantic but if the guy is good-looking, playful, and intelligent, what more do you want?

  29. 59
    helene

    What more? well, here’s a real-life example…

    I went on an online date a few years ago. Guy hadn’t turned up, so I went outside for a cigarette. There was a guy outside at the next table to mine – handsome, mid 40s, cool looking – and as tends to happen among smokers, we got chatting. My date still failed to turn up( he never appeared at all!) . I really like the look of smoker guy, but didn’t want to presume anything, so after a bit I said “I think I’ll go back inside.” He followed me in, bought me a drink. We chatted and really clicked. he bought me another drink. About 10 pm I said i really had to get going as I was going away early the next day for easter. He asked me to stay, to go to another bar with him. I went, he bought me another drink, we chatted and laughed for a bit longer – it was all great. After a bit I again said I had to go. He asked for my number, then kissed me passionately before I left, and whispered ” I’ve been wanting to do that all evening”. Then this gorgeous, intelligent, cool guy ran out wildly into the street to flag down a taxi for me. Checked when I was coming back  into town – I said monday. “Are you free to go out monday?” he asked. I said I was. “good, I’ll call you.” He kissed me again, and then I left.
     Now THAT was being swept off your feet – the kiss, the whispering, the taxi thing… I went home feeling I’d started the perfect romance with the perfect first date.
     Weirdly enough, I never heard from him again – one of the biggest let-downs of my life – but I have NEVER stopped thinking about him. If he HAD called I would DEFINATELY have gone out with him again.

    So, hespeler, something like THAT – but with follow through – that is “what more do you want”. Hope this helps.   

        

  30. 60
    hespeler

    helene,

    It helps.  Though I am now kicking myself…

    1. 60.1
      tamara

      I know u’ve already gotten tons of replies, but anyway.
      People assume that almost all women are desperate for love. Many of us are not, and even those of us who really want love have time periods where we’re happy not being in a relationship. When I was in my early 20s, thanks to a job where I met many pple, I was asked out by male models, dated pilots, managing directors, and other very successful men. Many were very sweet and loving. But I was just in a wandering, drifting state, feeling that it was too early to date seriously–I wanted to wait till mid-20s. (which is now)
      That lady is possibly in that state. She’s already been married–there are many women who get embarrassed if they don’t marry by a certain age and this makes them work harder to get married, this incentive is gone for her. She owns her home, and doesn’t need a man’s financial help much either. Plus she may have missed the freedom of singlehood and is now savoring it.
      So don’t feel dejected or think that there’s something wrong with you or with what u did on the date. It’s really probably Her. Just like there was nothing wrong with many of the guys I dated when I was younger, they were objectively-speaking good catches. She’s likely just dating for some fun and excitement now, or to fit in with her friends.
      I disagree with some of the other commenters who say u should never contact her again. I don’t see anything wrong with contacting her a few months or a year from now, just to say she suddenly popped into your mind. Because mentally she might be in a different place and more ready for a relationship? But if she says no, then yeah, forget her already, and try not to keep comparing other women to her. Plus in the meantime, this slight obsessiveness is rather unhealthy and I think u should try to focus more on other things.

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