I Lost a Lot of Weight But Resent All the Men Who Now Find Me Attractive

Dear Evan,

I lost 60 pounds (hooray!) and physically I am a completely different person. Before the dramatic weight loss, I didn’t really go out to try to find dates. I’m 23 and have never even “talked” to a male let alone go out with one. Being overweight made me very self-conscious physically and since no males ever showed interest in me, I never gave the effort to pursue.

Now, I’ve been fairly OK with never dating: I have career/education goals and I’ve always been independent and very able to take care of myself. Having someone romantically in my life just seemed like another thing to put on my plate. But seeing as 77% of my friends (I did the math!) are married and the other 23% are in serious relationships, I thought maybe I should think about doing the whole “dating” thing. In the past, I would go out to social events with my friends but never had any males approach me. Of course I assumed it was because of my physical appearance, but I always thought “oh well, their loss.” Now I go out with friends and I get bombarded by men, especially since I’m the only one in the group unattached.

I feel cocky to say this, but I know I have a great personality. I have goals, I’m ambitious, educated, really sweet and caring, very funny (I think everyone I know can attest to that,) patient, and just all around pretty easy going. I want to start dating, but I can’t get past the thought, “You know, this guy wouldn’t even give me the time of day if I were still fat.” What can I do to get rid of this or work past it? I know you say that physical attraction really does matter to men, but I have a pretty awesome personality and I want that to be, if not of most, of high importance. Please give me some insight! I’m pretty sure asking every guy that approaches me, “would you talk to me if I were fat?” is not the best way to go about things.

Thanks!
Sandra

Dear Sandra,

There’s an intelligent, successful, charming bachelor in his 40’s. Let’s call him George Clooney.

So George, sick of women throwing themselves at him because his rich and famous, decides to go undercover. He grows out his beard, he gains weight, he starts wearing ripped sweatpants wherever he goes. He’s the exact same guy underneath, but it’s really important that a woman want him for HIM – not just for the dashing image he projects and the life he can provide.

We can’t separate looks from the package. It’s PART of the package, whether we like it or not.

Now, George looks like a homeless man and goes to bars to talk to women. He still has great knowledge of Darfur, Edward R. Murrow, and the politics behind oil. He can still turn a phrase and crack a joke. He still has an amazing smile. He just can’t talk about being an Academy Award winner, lest anyone value him for something superficial. It would probably not surprise you that George would struggle in his quest for love. He may blame women for not valuing him as a homeless man as much they did as an actor – but he’d be the one losing out.

And that’s where you’re boxing yourself in, Sandra. See, we can’t separate looks from the package. It’s PART of the package, whether we like it or not. A store might have amazing and classy merchandise, but if there’s a misspelled sign outside, flyers on the window, and graffiti on the door, you might not go in to find out. Is that YOUR fault for judging the book by its cover? No, it’s the store’s fault for not realizing that looks matter.

Simply put, when a man finds you attractive, he will take the time to learn about your amazing personality. If he doesn’t find you attractive, he won’t. Which way would you rather have it?

The people who do best… are not the ones who try to rewrite the rules of society, but rather, figure out how to navigate them successfully.

On a personal note, I have dated three women who lost over 50 lbs and had the same exact issues that you did. One girlfriend used to complain to me that the men in the gym were looking at her – and remark that they never looked at her before. As if the men were to blame for buying into conventional societal standards of beauty.

Would the world be a better place if being 60lbs overweight didn’t matter? Sure. Would the world be a better place if 5’4″ men fared as well as 6′ tall men? Absolutely. Wouldn’t it be great if a male second grade teacher had as much status and appeal as the C.E.O. of a Fortune 500 company? Yep.

But that’s not the world we live in. And the people who do best in the world we live in, Sandra, are not the ones who try to rewrite the rules of society, but rather, figure out how to navigate them successfully.

It sounds like you have a great sense of self-esteem to back up your efforts to lose weight. If I were you, I’d literally DROP the idea that the “right” guy doesn’t care about looks and embrace the incredible opportunity you created for yourself. You deserve it.

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Comments:

  1. 121
    Jennifer

    I think we are reading a bit much into this guy’s venting in a therapy group. If you can’t vent there, where can you? I’m all for Ann leaving if it made her uncomfortable, and based on other things she found out it sounded like the right move for her, but the man was in a therapy group, not on a street corner.
    And, did the guy’s wife cheat on him? If so that may explain some of the ‘sexualization’ of his comments. If a woman found out her man was cheating and vented in a therapy group that she wanted to kick his bitch-ass in the balls, would we say there was something seriously wrong with her and that she hated all men, or that she was mad at one man for a good reason?

    Thinking, and analyzing and reading into things has its place, but sometimes we (as humans) can just take things too far.

  2. 122
    Steve

    @Cilla, post #117

    It is my hope Evan does none of those things.

    It would make his blog more similar to a forum and the web boards I have seen if they don’t have more heat than light then they are short on the worth content Evan provides.

    My theory is that it is the difference in “architecture” between blogs and forums that keeps garbage content to a minimum on blogs.

  3. 123
    Cilla

    Wait a minute, please tell me I’m interpreting this incorrectly. Single women are now no longer free to discuss the possibility that we still live in a patriarchal society, because it might put single men off? OK, agreed, it may not be the best topic for a first date, but to me that seems like not bringing up the topic of racism because some white people might get offended or eschewing a conversation about smoking because the smokers won’t like it.

    So lets say I’m on a date with a guy and I’ve just finished my dissertation on how the mainstream media fail to adequately cover race relations. I’m white and the guy is white, but I don’t know what is opinions about racism etc. are. Are you suggesting that I should tap dance around the last, oh, 5 years of my life, because he might not agree with me, and it would therefore make me less desirable?

    Honey, you’re right. Dating enlightened men is the key. If I can’t discuss these kinds of topics with him, I won’t care if he isn’t interested in me–I’ll give him the boot first.

    I know, it’s another tangential post, but I just had to ask.

  4. 124
    Cilla

    @ Steve

    Well, the reality is that sometimes the blog commentary here IS like a forum: rambling, off topic, argumentative. The “architecture” I suggested for the blog commentary would just provide some organization for what is already in existence. I don’t think it would detract from Evan’s advice at all, which is always available at the top of the page in his original post.

  5. 125
    Steve

    @Jennifer, post #20

    THANK YOU!

  6. 126
    Ann

    No, the wife hadn’t done anything. They squabbled all the time, that was all. Very boring stuff. Nothing deserving of such a reaction. And yeah, better he act it out in there and not in the real world, but that doesn’t mean I have to sit there and listen to it. You can listen to it if you want to.

    And just for the record, when I told the therapist privately that I had a problem with the way this guy was “acting out” his hostility toward his wife he told me that I probably wanted to act that way toward men’s p*nises. Uh, no. I actually rather like them and have no desire hidden or explicit to behave in that way. Would not even occur to me.

    But what do you expect when you go to a not-too-bright pseudo-Freudians. Even good Freudians are old news; they seem a little crackpot in the modern age. Freud’s weird interpretations of women’s so-called “problems” are one of the big tragedies of science, I believe.

    I see a relational therapist now. Very intriguing. To get back to Sandra, in relational therapy her weight gain/loss would not be seen as indicative of anything (a personality disorder, say) in absolute terms; the therapist would have to hear from Sandra what it means to her. It is completely possible that Sandra’s weight gain was a very healthy response to something and she’s to be commended on a job well done. And then a second job well done when the weight no longer served a purpose and she lost it. Or whatever, that’s the thing. The answer lies within her, not in a checklist of her “symptoms.”

    And thanks, Cilla. Well put.

  7. 127
    Karl R

    Cilla asked: (#122)
    “Single women are now no longer free to discuss the possibility that we still live in a patriarchal society, because it might put single men off?”

    Let me turn this around…

    If you were talking to a man and he suggested that any woman who would date a wealthy man is a golddigger … what would you think about him?

    You probably agree that there are some women in the world who deserve the label, but if a man assumes that every woman who dates a rich man deserves that label, then it’s quite likely that he’s damaged goods in one way or another. It’s bad enough that his perspective doesn’t match reality. But he adds to the problem by voicing it to potential dates.

    If you’re claiming this society is patriarchal, then you’re out of touch with it. I’m sure there are patriarchal families, but I don’t know any … and that includes my Mormon coworker. (He and his wife both believe that the man is the head of the household, but my coworker is wise enough to know that his life is happier when his wife is happier … and his wife is happier when she gets a say in the decision-making process.)

    There are some places that are male-dominated: the top levels of business, politics and religious hierarchies. But even there the glass ceiling keeps moving up.

    And if you’re describing the whole society as a patriarchal, it sounds like you’re painting the entire gender as your enemy. And since I’m part of that gender, I don’t feel like having to negotiate a cease-fire before I can get a second date.

  8. 128
    Honey

    @Kark R, 127:

    All women are gold-diggers: NOT FACT

    Some women are gold-diggers: FACT

    All men are misogynist: NOT FACT

    Some men are misogynist: FACT

    Society is patriarchal (and also racist and homophobic): FACT

    The fact that everyone within the structure does not adhere/subscribe to the fundamental beliefs of the structure does not change the fact that the structure has not yet changed.

    Honey´s last blog post…New Car!

  9. 129
    girl-with-glasses

    I notice that men tend to be competent, knowledgeable, fair, mathematically / logically inclined, and not inclined to whine about their own suffering or griefs, or the hardships they’ve endured. They also tend to understand social contracts involve individuals bringing in their best A game to the table, so that the group as a whole can cooperate and evolve.

    women…..let’s say their views speak for themselves.

    What mystifies me as a young woman is why people who aren’t as competent, who don’t even have a solid grasp of science, math, history, economics, never feel that their own lives are being lived by them, don’t have genuine goals and the resolve to accomplish them, but feel fully justified in their constant and loud nagging about how other people aren’t serving their non-ending, disillusional needs for self worth.

    I don’t make a habit of being such a drudge, but I have to say I’m female, and I do have a sense of fairness, which unfortunately seems all to rare. And that sense of fairness has been aggravated for a long time now, so I can understand the anger of men.

    Yes your dating experiences are your own, and valid as such. But no one here is really treating their experiences as individuals, are they? When a woman speaks, it’s implied that it’s suppose to represent the female view in the gender relationship for some reason.

    Well, I for one will state that I’ve never been treated badly by a man. My professors were male, people who gave me a chance in my career were male. Everyday in the city, I feel protected and happy because of the existence of men. My experience is valid as well, no?

    welcome to the internet, as they say.

  10. 130
    Cilla

    @ Karl R

    The fact that you are insisting that if I think our society is patriarchal, I am out of touch (that because you say so, you are right and I am wrong) isn’t exactly disproving my point. LOL

    But I really wasn’t arguing about whether or not our society is patriarchal. I was saying that if we can’t have intellectual discussions about big topics without fear of offending somebody, the dating world is that much more pathetic.

  11. 131
    Michael

    Women still make less money than men
    So who would hire men instead women, unless men have something to offer that women do not?

  12. 132
    Ann

    girl-with-glasses: If you want to see how the other half livesd, have I got a therapist for you!! Be forewarned: He might call you by the wrong name for a few years. (Or maybe just “girl.”)(Yes, he did that, too. So crazy and funny!)

    But don’t assume that all or most women don’t have a solid grasp of econ, history, math, science, and the other “male” intellectual disciplines. When not doing my creative life I make six figures as a consultant in a male-dominated world. I can do this because I am well-educated and smart and can handle the alpha male environment when required. I just don’t want it in my personal life. Sounds like some other women on here are pretty accomplished as well. So not sure who the diatribe is directed at.

  13. 133
    Cilla

    @ Michael 131

    Because the *perception* (held by other men) is that men have something more to offer–they’re smarter, better with numbers, less emotional, etc. It’s still a big boys club in many fields.

    The only reason I can see why women realistically come in second to men is when a job requires physical strength (firefighting, for example, which some women are still capable of doing) or a long-term commitment to a project that could be interrupted by pregnancy and maternity leave.

  14. 134
    texasdarlin

    Totally off subject, but @ ANN #’s 100 & 126. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m glad one idiot did not sour you on therapists. I hope you reported the first to your state’s licensing board. I don’t know that he did anything unethical per say, but his response to you was totally uncalled for, I don’t care what he called himself. If he advertised his services on the social networking sites you mentioned that could be grounds for a more formal complaint depending on the rules of your state.

  15. 135
    Karl R

    Honey said: (#128)
    “Society is patriarchal (and also racist and homophobic): FACT”
    Cilla said: (#130)
    “The fact that you are insisting that if I think our society is patriarchal, I am out of touch (that because you say so, you are right and I am wrong) isn’t exactly disproving my point.”

    I say I’m right, and both of you are wrong, because I’m using the term correctly, and you aren’t.

    patriarchy
    hypothetical social system in which the father or a male elder has absolute authority over the family group; by extension, one or more men (as in a council) exert absolute authority over the community as a whole.
    - from the Encyclopedia Britannica Online

    The only way this society is a patriarchy is if you start redefining the term. (Or if you’re living in another country, like Saudi Arabia.) There are a small percentage of families in the U.S. where men hold absolute authority. There are also some families where women hold absolute authority. The majority of families have shared authority. (My own family being the first example I think of, and my mother has slightly more authority than my father.)

    And since women make up roughly 50% of the electorate, I’m having a hard time seeing how men are allegedly achieving absolute authority over the community as a whole.

    I would say that this country has some lingering sexism and inequality. But when you choose to call it patriarchal, you’re claiming that society is at the extreme end of the scale when it comes to sexism and inequality.

    Maybe you just don’t understand the meaning of the word. Maybe you just have a tendency toward hyperbole. But if either of those are true, you’re going to find that a lot of men will misunderstand what you’re trying to say. And if that misunderstanding happens on the first date, you’re unlikely to get a second date.

    Based on my own experiences, I would say that you’re better off understating any controversial beliefs instead of overstating them on your first few dates. (And given this tangent, let me explicitly point out that this applies equally to men and women.)

  16. 136
    Cilla

    @Karl R

    “The concept of patriarchy is often used by extension (in anthropology and feminism) to refer to the expectation that men take primary responsibility for the welfare of the community as a whole, acting as representatives via public office, with various forms of authority. Western civilization, like most societies in history, is patriarchal, but has recently attempted to legislate for egalitarianism due to sympathy for the Women’s rights’ movement.”

    “Patriarchy is best defined as control by men…Obviously, the culture of the United States and most other countries is patriarchal. Men have the power and control the women. If you don’t believe that consider the basics of how our society functions…Patriarchy is also found in family traditions like women taking the name of their husbands and children always carrying the father’s last name. More women are choosing to keep their maiden names or hyphenate with their married name so they can retain their own identity. With reference of Mr. and Mrs. so-and-so, the man assumes the dominant role again and women lose.”

    “…broadly : control by men of a disproportionately large share of power…”

    Just a few other definitions found from following the first few Google hits under “patriarchy.” The last one is from the Miriam-Webster dictionary.

    Saying patriarchy doesn’t exist here because men don’t have “absolute” power over their families is like saying racism doesn’t exist because we no longer have laws allowing segregation.

  17. 137
    Honey

    I would have said sexist and not patriarchal…but the reason that society is still sexist is because of its patriarchal roots, so I don’t think it’s all that much of a stretch.

  18. 138
    Karl R

    Cilla said: (#136)
    “Just a few other definitions found from following the first few Google hits under ‘patriarchy.’ The last one is from the Miriam-Webster dictionary.”

    Why did you edit out most of the Miriam-Webster definition?

    from Miriam-Webster:
    patriarchy:
    “social organization marked by the supremacy of the father in the clan or family, the legal dependence of wives and children, and the reckoning of descent and inheritance in the male line; broadly: control by men of a disproportionately large share of power”

    In the US:
    Decisions inside a family are generally made jointly by the parents, not exclusively by the husband.
    Wives are not legally dependent upon their husbands.
    Inheritance is divided equally among the surviving children, not just the males (this is the default in the absence of a will)
    Wives and children generally (but not always) use the father’s surname.

    So of the four elements you edited out, three would indicate that the US is not a patriarchy.

    I agree that women aren’t proportionally represented in the government, but they control at least half the vote and have the legal right to hold every position of political power.

    Tying this back into the original topic:
    If you’re on a first date, and you point an accusing finger at a large group, and your date is part of that group … you just killed your chance of getting a second date. It doesn’t matter what group the person belongs to (fat, thin, male, female, democrat, republican).

    That kind of behavior eliminates options. And in dating, you want to keep your options open.

  19. 139
    Janet

    Actually, many people in dating want to narrow down their options.

    Karl, there are many applicable definitions of “patriarchy” depending on the context. Language is not black and white. The writers’ use of the term on this board has been clear and appropriate. I can appreciate that you and Steve don’t like the term, and I urge you to avoide women who use it. But you do not represent all men.

    I myself avoid people who insist that I use their “approved” definition of a word in my native tongue and who want to argue with me about it.

  20. 140
    Steve

    Karl post #138
    Tying this back into the original topic:

    If you’re on a first date, and you point an accusing finger at a large group, and your date is part of that group you just killed your chance of getting a second date. It doesn’t matter what group the person belongs to (fat, thin, male, female, democrat, republican).

    That kind of behavior eliminates options. And in dating, you want to keep your options open.

    +1

  21. 141
    Honey

    I find the idea that dating is about keeping your options open to be interesting…I am with Janet – the point of dating is to eliminate as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, so that I can find the one worth keeping around.

    I found him, so it worked for me!

    Honey´s last blog post…New Car!

  22. 142
    Evan Marc Katz

    Kids, stop fighting! Don’t make me come back there! If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it!

    People don’t really dig on the negativity, you know. So let’s keep it civil.

  23. 143
    Selena

    Keeping your options open?
    How about:
    “The point of dating is to find someone so you will never have to date again!!!” Arrrggghhh.

    Old joke.

  24. 144
    Karl R

    Janet said: (#139)
    “many people in dating want to narrow down their options.”
    Honey said: (#141)
    “I find the idea that dating is about keeping your options open to be interesting I am with Janet – the point of dating is to eliminate as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, so that I can find the one worth keeping around.”

    Maybe this is a difference between men and women in dating. Evan has mentioned more than once that when he’s on a first date, he’s trying to be the best date possible, so he has the option to have a second date if he wants it. I do the same thing.

    I might decide afterward that I don’t want a second date, but that’s my decision. I want her to want a second date with me regardless.

    Even if we’re discussing volatile topics, I’ll try to come across as moderate, reasonable, open-minded and respecting her opinions. Dating isn’t an adversarial system.

    Even if a date starts the conversation with, “All men are pigs!” I’ll ask her what she means by that. I’ll ask her why she dates men if she thinks so little of them. (And I’ll do my best to sound sincere instead of sarcastic.) I won’t agree with her, but I won’t turn it into an arguement. Even though she has eliminated her option (for a second date with me), I’ll keep open my option (for a second date with her).

    I don’t even see it as a time-saving function to eliminate options. The first date will last roughly the same amount of time regardless, and it will be a lot more pleasant if she likes me for the entire duration of the date.

  25. 145
    Ruby

    Karl R:

    My American Heritage dictionary defines patriarchy as “a system of social organization in which descent and succession are traced through the male line”. While to some extent that may be changing, I’m not sure how you can deny that patriarchy is our legacy.

    Also check out the definition on Wikpedia:
    Patriarchy is the structuring of society on the basis of family units, where the father has the primary responsibility, and hence authority (decision making powers) over the rest of his family members. Patriarchy refers to not just the costs that fathers bear on behalf of their families and at home, but also in society at large: at the workplace, at home, and in human relationships in general. The concept of patriarchy is often used by extension (in anthropology and feminism) to refer to the expectation that men take primary responsibility for the welfare of the community as a whole, acting as representatives via public office, with various forms of authority.
    Western civilization, like most societies in history, is patriarchal, but has recently attempted to legislate for egalitarianism due to sympathy for the Women’s rights’ movement.
    The feminine form of patriarchy would be matriarchy, where the responsibility that men endure under patriarchy, is instead reversed and suffered by women. However, there are no known examples of matriarchal societies.[1]

    “If you’re on a first date, and you point an accusing finger at a large group, and your date is part of that group you just killed your chance of getting a second date. It doesn’t matter what group the person belongs to (fat, thin, male, female, democrat, republican).”

    Generally not part of my first-date repertoire, but again, not a problem if the guy’s a feminist.

  26. 146
    Honey

    For me, being “the best date possible” means that I am the truest to myself and my beliefs, not watering myself down in order to be likeable. I don’t really care if someone likes me or not after a first date…if they don’t like me, it’s probably (largely) because I don’t like them. I don’t have any problem with a mutual rejection.

    When I was dating, I certainly didn’t pick fights or be deliberately abrasive in my conversational style (unless the guy was first and my attempts to encourage respectful dialogue failed). But it isn’t necessary to pick a fight in order to determine that someone’s not right for you.

    Studies have shown that we are happier the fewer choices we have, and unhappier the more choices we have. So I’m all about eliminating options as quickly as possible. That’s one of the things I liked about online dating – I could weed out most folks with a real lifestyle incompatibility prior to even going on a date with them in person. And then once I met them in person, I usually decided whether there would be a second date within 30 minutes anyway.

    So when you say “the first date will last roughly the same amount of time regardless,” how long are you thinking? I mostly went for coffee or a beer someplace walking distance from my house so I could leave after half an hour if it wasn’t clicking or extend into dinner if it was. And I wasn’t above faking an emergency phone call from a friend and leaving sooner if it seemed to be clicking for the guy but not for me (which, sadly, seemed to be quite a bit of the time).

    Immature? Perhaps. But since I met the BF when I was 25, I was that age or younger when I made all these choices. While I probably wouldn’t fake a phone call now, I would certainly say, “I’m sorry, but I don’t think this is going to work for me – best of luck on your search,” throw some cash down on the table to cover my share, and leave. My time’s too valuable, and so is theirs – why would I waste both when we could be finding someone who is right for each of us?

    Even when I was in my early twenties when guys would call to ask for a second date, I usually said, “I appreciate your interest, but I’m just not interested. Sorry.” And that was that. Faking interest in someone to keep my options open just isn’t my style.

    Honey´s last blog post…New Car!

  27. 147
    Evan Marc Katz

    I can’t tell you how much I disagree with Honey. Okay, I can. :)

    That “half-hour to impress, throw down some cash, show me what you got, buddy” attitude is exactly what’s wrong with dating.

    If I gave my wife a half-hour to impress me before ditching her because I didn’t “feel it”, I wouldn’t be married today. And it would be my loss.

    Oh, and I’m pretty sure that by being “true to myself” and going home to catch “Lost” after twenty mediocre minutes at Starbucks, I’d make my erstwhile wife feel like crap in the process. Yeah, that’s a cool way to be.

    I wrote about it in “Why You’re Still Single”, the way to be when dating is to follow the Platinum Rule. The Golden Rule says to treat others the way you’d be treated. The Platinum Rule says to treat others BETTER.

    Being a great date – or a great partner – is about being selfless. Your description, Honey, is as selfish as it gets.

  28. 148
    Honey

    I’m a little confused by the “throw down the cash” remark because I have never asked a guy to pay for me (when I was a student dating professionals I thought that they *probably* would, because they were making a real salary and I made $10K a year, but I never asked for it). I meant that if a date wasn’t going well then I would pay my way so I wasn’t stealing the guy’s money in addition to not being right for him.

    As far as the half-hour date, that’s EXACTLY how I met the BF. We exchanged maybe 3 e-mails before agreeing to meet…a bar walking distance from my house so I could leave on my own terms if I wanted. I found out later that he’d made plans to go to a party so he could bail if the date was lame, too.

    I knew within half an hour of meeting him that he was different from every other guy, and actually called a friend from the bathroom to tell her how sure I was that everything would work out. I was just as sure that he WAS the one that I had been that everyone prior to him WASN’T.

    We had such an amazing time on the date that he invited me to go with him to the party and I invited him home with me afterwards. We were exclusive (and long distance, as he moved less than a week later) immediately.

    I think that if I’d strung some other guy along because I wanted to “give him a chance” when I knew, 100% KNEW in my guts that it would never work, THAT’S what’s selfish – and that’s what would have prevented me from being single and in a position to meet the BF. I guess I don’t see how refusing to take money from men I’m not interested in or taking up their time when I know they could find someone who would appreciate their complexities when I couldn’t is selfish.

    The first summer we dated, the BF and I visited back and forth every single weekend of the summer except one (and that weekend was torture). The second year we dated we lived in different cities and I put over 10,000 miles on my car just from visiting him. I changed my whole work schedule so I could be with him 4 days/week.

    After that, I gave up my original career trajectory to move to a city where I knew no one and explore new possibilities because being with him was more important than anything else in my life. I supported him when he adopted a dog that I hate, when he got a concealed weapons permit when I think guns are abhorrent. I took him to the hospital at 5 a.m. when he had a kidney stone.

    I’m afraid I just don’t see your point.

    Honey´s last blog post…New Car!

  29. 149
    hunter

    Honey, I sense, most women do not have that special gift you have, of knowing a man is different from other men, in the first 30 minutes of talking to him.

  30. 150
    Curly Girl

    EMK, you owe Honey an apology. She is definitely NOT selfish.

    And it’s nice that you didn’t Starbuck’s your wife on the first date. Don’t do caffeine myself, so I have always appreciated the non-coffee first date. Where DID you go? Or have you already shared and I missed it?

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