I Make $40K And My Girlfriend Never Offers To Pay For Anything

My Girlfriend Never Offers To Pay For AnythingHello Evan. I recently started dating a girl. I really enjoy her company and she enjoys mine. We get along fine, we’re really into each other and we share many commonalities. There’s only one issue – money! I have absolutely no problems taking her out on dates and footing the bill 100% but we’ve been on about 5 dates and we’ve hung out with mutual friends on numerous occasions, but she never even offers to pay – not even a disingenuous offer. I understand that if we are happy, then money is a small price to pay, but I barely finished college and only make $40,000 a year. I cannot afford to spend $200 every weekend. I mean, even when we’re not on dates, she expects me to pay. I don’t know how she got this old fashioned mindset, but it’s really starting to bug me. Personally, I work just as hard as she does for my money and I don’t find it fair but at the same time, I find it too early in the relationship to bring it up. I just don’t want her getting the idea that I’m ok with it or that she can take advantage.

 

I don’t even expect her to pay half. If we go out to dinner, I’ll pay for the date and the dinner, but the least she could do is pay for our ice cream or maybe buy me a single drink? I want to have that feeling, like if we’re at a bar and my girl comes up to me and asks me what I want. It’s like she has my back. It’s not about the cash- it’s more about being appreciated and not taken advantage of. I do not know how to approach the situation. I know she is going to explode if I bring it up, but how much of this should I take? I am not cheap, but at the same time, I am not made out of money. Does it make me a bad person to be thinking this way? I am somewhat of a liberal, progressive thinker, and her traditional mindset seems backwards to me. Advice? –David

We’ve established that men and women are equal.

Thank you, David, for writing a question that addresses the very hypocrisy of modern-day dating.

We’ve established that men and women are equal.

We’ve established that women are more highly educated and (often) make more money than their male counterparts.

We’ve established that the concept of men paying for dates came from a time when women didn’t work and therefore men HAD to pay.

Which leads this blog to receive comments that read like this:

“In our society, it has always been customary for a man to pay for a woman’s dinner. Men are wired to protect, and take care of a woman. If he doesn’t want to pay for dinner that is a glimpse into his character and/or how he was raised. Any self-respecting woman should steer clear of such a man. It doesn’t matter if she has decided not to see him again before she even picks up her fork. If he is a gentlemen, he will gladly pay and expect nothing in return.”

Anyone who feels that way should go back and read David’s letter.

Stop acting like you’re six-years-old and don’t have a purse with cash and credit cards in it.

This is a liberal, progressive thinker – a good man of modest means – who is trying to do the “right thing” and pick up the check as the anachronistic rules of chivalry still dictate.

He’s not railing against the concept of picking up the tab while he’s courting her – he’s just annoyed that he feels taken for granted. And when a woman never reaches for the check, offers to split, or insists on picking up the tip, the cab, or the coffee afterwards, it can really start to wear on a guy.

I am a man. You are a woman. You are not poor or helpless or dependent.

So stop acting like you’re six-years-old and don’t have a purse with cash and credit cards in it.

Stop acting like he should be thrilled to drain his account in hopes that he might procure a good night kiss.

Stop acting like you’re not really his equal when you want to be treated equally in every other respect.

As I said here, if we can agree it’s in good form for a man to pick up the check while courting you, we should also be able to agree that it’s in good form for a woman to offer to split the check and/or insist on picking up the check while he’s courting you.

If you think it’s rude when men don’t pay, we think it’s rude when you assume we will pay.

It’s basic golden-rule stuff, y’all.

I’m not expecting much dissent on this one, but if you’re brave enough to explain why the original poster David is wrong, cheap, or short-sighted, have at it.

Personally, I think he speaks for just about every man I’ve ever met who got sick of being an ATM.

Here was my breaking point – when some woman intimated that she was my “sugar mama” after I allowed her to split the check on our fourth date.

And you think that women are the only ones who get burned out on dating…

 

 

 

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Comments:

  1. 241
    Selena

    I’ve been thinking of different  factors when it comes to the Who Pays? issue.

    Are people under 35 more comfortable splitting the cost of dating than those over 45? Is it simply more common in one generation than it was for the previous one?

    I wonder how being a spender/saver may come into play. There are people who feel money is made to be spent. Perhaps they are the ones who don’t mind finding things to do and paying the other person’s way? On the other side of the spectrum are people who prefer to save for a purpose. They may be the ones who are less comfortable spending money on restaurant meals, bar tabs, and activities for which there is nothing tangible to “show for it” afterward. I can see how men like this would feel reluctant to pay not only their own way, but a woman’s as well. And I can see how a woman like this would be reluctant to accept dates where she had to pay her own way that weren’t her idea. 

    Maybe it becomes more of an issue for people who like to go out alot? If someone enjoys going out to eat 3-4 times a week, and views dates as something semi-pricey to pricey, like concerts and theatre shows the indivdual cost adds up quickly, doubles if one is expected to treat as well. I can see how people who like this lifestyle would find splitting a reasonable way to acheive it.

    Are people who prefer less expensive dates, more at-home dates, the ones who experience less angst over Who Pays?

  2. 242
    Paula

    $200 a weekend is nuts. Maybe it’s not so much that he pays, it’s that the stuff is expensive. Maybe the real problem is that you have a HIGH MAINTENANCE WOMAN!
    Sorry Evan, but I’m old school and expect the man to pay always. I’m willing to do nice things in return but when it comes to the cash, he is to pay. If we were living together and married, then I obviously would be contributing financially.
    What a turn off it would be to be around a man that expected me to pay. I’ll pay if I want to or make my contribution another way. Men are always to be giving and generous and if they are not, RUN!
    I don’t expect lots of money to be spent either. I am frugal. People can have cheap fun!

  3. 243
    settingthepace

    Problem #1: 5 dates? ANd he’s calling her his girlfriend? Is she aware of this? Is she aware they are in an exclusive relationship?

    Problem #2: 5 dates. Thats. Nothing.

    Problem #3: If he wants her to pay, then ask her what she would like to do and not drive the ship and then expect to hand her the bill. 

  4. 244
    A-L

    RE: Selena‘s #254

    Good points.  I’m under 35 and I would feel okay splitting the costs within a relationship.  I also like lots of at-home dates, so costs don’t matter much to me.  But I think guys’ perspectives are more important here than females’ since they’re the ones who are [usually] expected to pay.  Any guys care to share their thoughts?

  5. 245
    Selena

    @257

    Not only guys, I was wondering what the thoughts of women – in their 20′s, 30′s, 40′s & beyond were. Is there a difference in how one feels about “splitting” when it comes to dating men in their 20′s and men in their 40′s?

    Does geography play a part? Are people who live in large cities like NYC and accustomed to going out alot, more ammenable to splitting costs than those who live in areas where there is less “action”?

    On this thread, those who favored the traditional model and it’s hybrid (men pay for the majority of the date – women pay for the smaller parts of it) were the ones suggesting less expensive and at-home dates. Those who believed women should pay equally didn’t mention such options. So I’m wondering if splitting/sharing costs may have to do with what types of dates a particular woman prefers.

  6. 246
    David

    So I am not sure if anyone is still interested or keeping up with this thread, but I thought I would give it a bit of closure. Today my girl and I broke up. I felt like it was a long time coming, and because of this, I dont find myself as dissapointed as I thought I might have been. I just feel the most sadness when I think of all the things we never had a chance to do together.
    Basically she had texted me, telling me how much she wanted to see the play Les Miserables, and I HATE plays. Even still, I put it behind me and searched out some tickets for her. Mind you, this was just for a random night, no occassion. So I come to find out, unless I wanna spend $250 on tickets, I would have to skip bc they were all sold out.
    Today again she brings up the tickets and I told her in a mature tone, Im sorry babe but theyre sold out and unless I pay $100+ a ticket, we cant go. She replied, “Yeah I figured as much. Everythings too ‘expensive’ for you” in which I explained my situation AGAIN and said I want to but I cannot afford it.
    Then the bomb! She texted me back with “Then maybe Ill find someone who thinks im worth it” to which I tell her, “did you not read my text? I definitely want to take you places but I do not have the means to live the lifestyle you are looking for” and the wierd thing is, before I came into her life, she was doing even LESS because she doesnt have money to spend.
    So one thing lead to another and she basically told me we have different outlooks on relationships and she wants an “adult relationship” and not a juvenile one, in which I was apparently perpetuating.
    I basically told her that I found pleasure in all the little things and I adored her and really enjoyed being with her, but that I felt sometimes that I was the only one putting in the relationship and sometimes that I wasnt worth it to her.
    I went on to tell her how “adult relationships” involve two individuals who are willing to work with eachother and make things work and that she was incapable of doing that.
    I dunno it sucks really bad, but I am glad it happened now and not further down the line. I would be totally emotionally invested and it would be much more difficult than it already is. It all sounds so materialistic to me. Fuck up a perfectly good thing bc youre not being showered with gifts and vacations? next!
    Thanks everyone for your input. Like I said, I was definitely torn to begin with. If she wants to work on things, she can do it alone. Im done with that. She can find someone who doesnt mind being with her… someone who fits her idea of a perfect lifestyle.

  7. 247
    Selena

    I’m sorry David, but sheesh! good riddance to someone who has such an attitude. You are right, an adult relationship involves two individuals who are willing to work with each other. This ungrateful girl isn’t there yet.

  8. 248
    Goldie

    Wow, this is the first I’m hearing that being a kept woman is an “adult relationship”… this type of relationship is something I’ve tried to avoid all my life. If that’s what she is looking for, then, um, good luck to her, she will need it. And good luck to you David, you are really better off without her. Only thing that worries me is that you’ve mentioned before that both of you belong to the same circle of friends. Hope this doesn’t disrupt any of your other friendships. Good luck! I think you handled the situation very well.

  9. 249
    SS

    David, thanks for the update! Well, she sounds like a real peach, doesn’t she?
     
    You handled yourself well and her response told you all you needed to know. Glad you’re okay with the fact that it ended, and you’ll definitely know next time to be more aware of women like this who aren’t at all considerate of your time and money!
     
    Best of luck in your future relationships!

  10. 250
    Kurt

    Women absolutely should offer to pay for some early dates because men really do start to feel taken advantage of when women refuse to pay for anything.  I make six figures myself but don’t think I should have to pay for everything because they women I typically date make decent money themselves.  Paradoxically, I have noticed that professional women who make the most money are often the stingiest with their wallets for some reason.
     
    I don’t expect a woman to have sex with me on an early date, but I do want her to be invested in me and show me that she likes me in some concrete way.  However, a lot of women have an entitlement attitude where they simply expect a man to pay for everything and these women are often so ungrateful that they forget to even thank the man! 
     
    If I go out with a woman a few times and she doesn’t offer to pay for anything, the odds are that I will conclude that she is greedy and isn’t relationship material. 
     
    The OP’s letter should be a reminder to men as to why they shouldn’t take a woman on an expensive date early on because it is often a complete waste of the man’s money.  A lot of women date multiple guys at once and no guy wants to be the chump who pays for a date only to have the girl leave and hook up with some other guy she is dating who doesn’t pay for anything.

  11. 252
    Ticketgirl

    I always offer but when we go out he seems to do much of the spending so I mostly have him pick up the bill. Like if we go out to dinner i’ll order something reasonable with water he’ll order whatever the cost with 5 drinks, i mostly reach for the check when it’s a place that does not sell liquor so i know i’m not mainly just paying for booze.

    He has in the past thrown it in my face that i’m cheap and I never pay for anything. I hate that I really do. I do pay he just seems to pay more when we go out cause he seems to not take into cosideration the alchol he’s consuming cost a lot more then my glass of water.

    We make the same amount of money I own a home and have a child from a previouse marriage. When he doesn’t have money i’m more then willing to stay in and make dinner and watch tv or go hiking or something cost friendly. If I feel he’s really itching to go out i’m more then happy to say it’s on me let’s go and I never throw it back in his face.

  12. 253
    George

    It’s a choice for men.  Do you want to be a provider, or do you want to be a sharer?  I am not interested in being a provider.  It doesn’t jive with my thoughts on equality.  I want to share life experiences with someone, and taking turns paying enables this to occur.  If I paid more often than not, then I’d feel as if I was buying the relationship, and that’s not what I want to do.

    I appreciate not everyone likes this approach, and that’s fine.  You only need to match one person. 

  13. 254
    A

    I always offer, but I pretty much think a guy should pick up the first date. It doesn’t have to be expensive, but it’s just nice. And here’s why, Evan, we’re not quite equals: you keep telling us that the guy should be the one initiating, pursuing, making the next move. In that case, it’s the guy who decides what we do, and that may not be what I want to do with my money. If he picks an expensive restaurant, why should I pay for it? Also, if a guy is courting me–if I’m not sure–I’m not going to keep paying to find out whether I like him.
    All that said, I’m dating someone now, and I’ve always offered to pay and he generally ends up paying. Out of maybe seven events, I’ve paid for two, and that seems about right for me. The way it’s worked is, if I initiate, I pay, and if he initiates, he pays. This way, I end up paying for things I’d rather do (concerts, plays) and he ends up paying for meals. However it washes out, though, I just think more of him since he generally insists on paying. I can’t explain it–it’s almost subconscious–but it’s just the way it works.

  14. 255
    jenny

    Evan, Evan, Evan!  I’m starting to think I could become a dating counselor!   I think you may have made some unfair assumptions here!  Maybe I’m just getting old (I’m 47) but I seem to agree with 57-year-old Bren’s comments much of the time.  I think it’s a bit presumptuous to tell men to “dump” a woman who doesn’t offer to pay by the fourth or fifth date.  When giving advice to someone, we must always remember to try to cover as many bases as possible and to realize that we only have one side of the story and one perspective.  In this case, we have a guy and a gal who have had 5 dates and have hung out a few times!  We don’t know her financial situation; we don’t know her ethnicity (in certain cultures it is seen as unfeminine to pay; someone mentioned Southern men and women earlier, for example). 
    To continue, we don’t KNOW if this gal has made him dinner or has driven him to work or bought him (or made him) a gift or two at some point.  All he mentions is that she doesn’t PAY for the dates they’ve had so far!  As Bren mentioned, some of us with kids and lower incomes try to show our gratitude in OTHER ways.  I once dated a man who paid for dinners, movies, etc…When I would hang out with him on weekends I would make dinners and do laundry for him – once I even organized his closet and color-coordinated his clothing!  I enjoyed it and at the same time I was offering what I COULD offer, to show I cared for him.

    I believe that most of the time, with age comes wisdom and that the longer you live the more one has experienced.  Love, generosity, harmony and goodwill towards each other becomes more important than balancing the “scales” or constantly keeping score to make sure things are “equal”.  I guess I’m old-fashioned like Bren……I think whoever makes more at the time  should, in my book, have no problem paying more.  This works both ways of course!  If it is the woman who makes more, the man could contribute and show he cares by mowing the lawn, washing her car, picking flowers for her, offering to rub her back, etc!

    That being said, if this guy really feels taken for granted, he should gently broach the subject with her and see how she responds. But I believe we simply don’t have enough information to assume his girlfriend is some kind of gold-digger. 

    This reminds me of another poster who mentioned a similar kind of issue and commenters immediately jumped to the conclusion that his girlfriend was a “user”…..until……..the poster came back later with details like this: she had 3 kids, was in danger of losing her house, her car died unexpectedly,etc…. She was very simply in a financial quandry. So, folks, let’s always remember that we only have one side of the story! 

  15. 256
    jenny

    Well….  Looks like I missed David’s second comment (but in my defense there are 268 comments here; well, 269 now!  David, glad you filled us in and I’m so sorry it didn’t work out with your girl.  After reading your second post, it’s obvious you are better off knowing this sooner rather than later. I’m sure there is a lovely woman out there who will love and appreciate YOU, David, not David’s account balance.

     Someone once told me love is less about what someone gives to you and more about what someone will give UP for you.  It’s now clear that you were willing to make real sacrifices to try to make this girl happy and it just wasn’t enough for HER. Reading about her response to the Les Miserables situation saddened me.  All I can say is you’re a real MAN – the real deal!  But unfortunately, you were dealing with a little GIRL. 

  16. 257
    Sarah

    Several thoughts here, from a woman’s perspective of 20+ years.  Observations first:
    - $200 per weekend is not a lot of money if someone is making $100k+ per year, but clearly a strain for this gentleman (who seems to know how to budget etc which is very cool)
    - the cultural expectation of man-always-pays is still a very strong one
    - it’s possible the young lady here doesn’t know how to broach/bring up the subject either (where’s all that cut-the-guy-a-break-she’s-doing-her-best-bonhomie) so we need to help both people communicate a little better.  The young gentleman’s frustration is understandable and he’s asking all the right questions.
    Ok, now some possible solutions:
    - The young man should immediately transition to dates that he can afford on his current income, with the vibe that ‘this is how it will be on my current budget.’  He should be totally nonchalant about it and not afraid to say ‘I can’t afford that, shucks’ if the young lady suggests something outside of his price range.  Important to have the limits, not apologize for them and a matter-of-fact approach (as opposed to a let’s-sit-down-and-have-a-big-scary-talk approach) can sometimes work best
    - Bring the lady into the budget discussions on a regular basis.   Instead of just saying yes and paying for everything, say something like ‘Ok, I’ve been thinking – those concert tickets for next month will be $100 apiece.  I think we (important to say ‘we’) can swing it if we don’t eat out for the next 2 Saturdays – what do you think?’  Be really practical and straightforward, don’t go down the road of big lectures etc.  The lady will likely jump at the opportunity to say ‘let me cover those tickets’ in which case the problem is solved, or engage in the discussion of ‘yes, let’s cook at home and save up for the concert.’
    - $200 per weekend signals to me that on-average the couple A) goes out every Friday and Sat for a nice meal, or B) has one big blowout night in a relatively expensive bar/restaurant, possibly with friends.  This is good because it is very easy to find budget-cutters that are fun.  For example, learn how to cook and cook together at least one of those nights – the odds are decent that the lady will bring the wine or dessert without prompting (also nothing wrong with cooking at home together before meeting your friends out, which also cuts down on alcohol consumption).  Or throw a drinks party in your apartment for 10-20 people once a month, and call it BYOB (you supply the chips, pretzels and mixers) – I am unemployed with little income and can swing this once a month.  Or occasionally use your date to do something practical-but-useful (an old boyfriend of mine used to occasionally help me clean out the garage or take me to run errands I was dreading, like the DMV) – your young lady will likely be grateful and wish to reciprocate.
    - if your relationship continues, set up scenarios where the lady can contribute financially (appropriate to her means) on a regular basis.  For example, I dated an old-fashioned guy 10 years older than myself who insisted on always paying when we were out.  So I found other ways to contribute.  When we went on vacation, I handed him my $1000 (or whatever I could afford) beforehand and let him ‘pay for everything.’  Also, I bought most of his shirts, ties etc (he worked in an office) which worked really well – he felt cared for and I loved buying him ‘gifts’ without waiting for a special occasion.  I also bought quite a bit of our food for his house and often bought store brands etc.
    In the long-term, money is a huge issue in life, so talking about it and asking your partner’s advice/for input is a necessity – therefore establishing this pattern early-on is important.  You can also ask for her help in things like picking out your 401k investment options or for advice on saving for a house down payment – if she has any financial sense, she will jump at the opportunity to share her wisdom and help cut down expenses. 
    Good luck!

  17. 258
    Jan

    I’m with Paula #255. I don’t ask men out nor do I pay for dates. It’s not about getting a free meal (because I can eat home or eat out on my own and I don’t mind doing so) this is about a man that I am genuinely interested in making initiative to see me and get to know me.

    Women wanting to be equal to men is like an apple saying it wants to be an orange.

  18. 259
    Summer

    I believe that men and women are indeed equals but inherently different. I absolutely do not believe that a woman is meant to be the property of a man and walked upon in order for her to deserve protection and chivalry. However, I do believe in letting a man take the traditional role as leader of the family.  I do work and will probably always work at least part-time simply because of the nature of the modern economy and the increasing uncertainty of marriage lasting a lifetime.  However, I do desire a man who predominantly foots the bill even during the casual dating phase.  Now this is not a hard and fast rule of mine – if I made great money and the man I was dating did not I would be happy to pay. And I would not expect a man to take me out beyond his means. But I don’t make much money at all and I want a man who can provide for me and our potential children and therefore someone that makes more money than me.  But I will still contribute equally to the relationship, just not financially.  I will stay sexy for my future husband, I will give him sex even when I am not in the mood, I will clean our home, cook good meals, mother our children, love him faithfully and never cruelly tear him down.  And I would be more than willing to go to work full-time to contribute to our financial health if and when necessary. Now tell me men, honestly, would you rather have a woman that pays 50/50 for everything and takes care of herself financially or a woman who takes care of you and your household in the ways I mentioned above?

  19. 260
    AnonymousWoman

    I don’t think the guy writing the letter is a bad guy at all.  In fact, the girlfriend could suggest just staying at home watching a movie or cooking a meal together if finances are tough.  

    But,  I and a few other relationship books (Steve Harvey, The Rules, Why Men marry Bitches) see logic with the man paying for dates.  It’s not about money, but a gesture of romance and allowing the man to treat and pursue you.   There are some men that indeed derive great pleasure from treating a lady. There are some men that are so much in love with you where they don’t mind picking up the tab at all.

    Am I saying that a man’s love is measured by his wallet? Of course not. Am I saying that the man must pay all the time? No.  A woman can reciprocate in numerous ways to show appreciation for the man courting her (drinks, ice cream, coffee, gifts, etc). 

    If you both have different views on who should be paying what, maybe you aren’t right for each other.

    Second,  I feel money isn’t a big issue when a relationship is going well. The couple will find a way to compromise, like cutting down on eating out or making cheaper dates.

  20. 261
    AnonymousWoman

    Summer, very good point.

    Speaking of equality, my definition is that men and women are cherished and honored equally.  It doesn’t mean that they have to be exactly the same in everything.  Being equal doesn’t mean that a man can’t act like a man and a woman can’t act like a woman. 

    I understand not everybody will agree with me.   

  21. 262
    Mary

    I think it really depends on the financial means of each person.  When I was in grad school, I had a boyfriend who was a student like me, and he was very traditional and got offended when I would try to pay. We both had very little money so we didn’t go out much, but it worked for the most part.  After that I had a boyfriend who made 3 times as much money as I did and always insisted on paying.  

    Now I have a boyfriend (and I make even less than I did with last boyfriend) with whom I have an enormous income disparity and he pays for 95% of our outings.  Here’s the thing…..if someone has expensive taste, like my boyfriend, I really am not in the financial position to even split the bill.  He’s from a more traditional country, where men like to feel like the providers, so I don’t think he finds it offensive, and he knows I’m broke as hell. I do, however, try to buy him drinks when I can, and try to make up for my lack of financial contribution in other ways. He knows that I don’t make a lot of money, and I know that he has money, so what can I do?  If it were up to me, we’d go out to much cheaper restaurants and I might have the ability to split things more, but the man likes nice restaurants and going on trips. 

    I think it should have more to do with the financial means of both people, and if one has less money, at least they can try to make up for it in other ways.  But I agree that I would be, and have been turned off by guys that took me up on my offer to split the bill on a first or second date.  It just feels weird and I’m reminded of a relationship I had long ago where we split things all of the time, and he was a selfish person in general in the relationship.  If a guy likes to take his girl out, I think it speaks a lot about the person.  If the guy in the article is having issues with his girl, he could suggest cheaper outings, or maybe just be more upfront about his financial means versus what it seems like she’s expecting.  And $200 per weekend seems excessive.  How many times do they go out?  If the girl takes issue with it, I think he should bail on the girl. Obviously she’s an unreasonable person and its better to know now before he invests any more time.  

  22. 263
    Saint Stephen

    @Mary
    Judging from your post- i’ll infer you never read the comments section of this article.

  23. 264
    Deeks, Mave

    I don’t understand the “I want to feel cherished” argument.  Can’t you feel “cherished” on the second, third, and so on…dates, if not the first?  What’s wrong with the initial meeting being just for dutch-treat coffee to see if the relationship is worth pursuing?  That way there’s no pressure, expectations on anyone, and the man doesn’t have to feel he’s less than her because he has to “earn” her company.

    And in all these posts I never saw anyone acknowledge that a guy who wants to pay for everything may not have the courage to bring up a subject that opens up (as we’ve seen) a HUGE gray area, or that he’s terrified of a woman’s disapproval.  What kind of “masculine” man is that?

  24. 265
    Jenn

    I sympathize with the OP and men in general — in addition to the financial burden of being in the dating scene, there is also the mental and emotional stress that comes with having to figure out how to ‘act’ or play a role in the dating game. It boils down to ‘how can I be an effective dater.’ The goal, of course, is to win — whatever that entails. 

    I can’t offer much in the way of an argument in the whole ‘how should the couple handle the bill of the first few dates’ debacle, but all I can say is that perhaps if the daters focus on each other and not on the date itself — giving the other person the proper respect and attention for the time spent, and not the details, logistics, and possible outcome of the date and its contrived setup — all else will follow naturally, including who foots the bill.

  25. 266
    STEPHANIE

    LIKE GOOD OR BAD HOTEL ROOMS, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.  AND YOU ARE NOT PAYING A LOT.

    IF YOU ARE DATING HIGH-MAINTENANCE, then you will have to pay for high-
    maintenance.  Part of the deal, from what I can see, if the image of a man with a beautiful and provocative woman in public, and she expects that he will pay for everything, or else, she won’t show up.  A high-maintenance girl is like an escort.  She won’t be there if you are not paying, and $40,000 is nothing for her.  She can price the goods, that is her attitude.

    She shows off her assets to get what she wants, but somehow comes off as a bankable commodity, as opposed to the skank on crack downtown outside an after-hours club who charges $100 an hour in motels and back alleys.  She somehow seems glamorous and sophisticated.  Girls like this usually advertise with their clothing and sleep around.  They are users and takers looking for givers, men to walk all over, take for a ride, and forget about. 

    They often won’t sleep with nice guys and pushovers, if they sleep with anyone they date all, but they will advertise the goods to get the expensive meals, pot, gifts, clothing, champagne, drives around town, inside track of the social scene, concert tickets, etc. because that is what they are looking for….and they have sex with other men, nasty boys, that really interest them…and the pushovers are always surprised that they cannot ‘buy’ them, but they are treating women like prostitutes, strippers and escort service workers, and that is what they get.  They objectify women, and get mad when they turn the tables, or just use them and dump them. 

    Such a man may view himself as nice and generous, but he is giver with an agenda for the taking, and he is using her in his own way.  Neither the women nor the men in these situations have very high opinions of sex, dating, communication, relationships, others, and most of all, THEMSELVES…AND THEY GET WHAT THEY DESERVE…LONELINESS.

  26. 267
    DianeM

    I believe men should be men and women should be women.  I also believe that you can’t have equality without appreciating the differences.  Women aren’t men, and most of us appreciate what the men in our lives can do for us (what we can’t, for whatever reason; for example:  I am *no* mechanic, even if I do have the aptitude).  Unfortunately, our society looks at recognizing stereotypical differences as making one the lesser sex.  Really, isn’t true equality recognizing and appreciating our differences?  When we can bring those together, we have a relationship that each person feels important in.
    With that said, I love chivalry.  I love it when a man opens a door for me.  I view it as a sign of respect.  I am really flattered when he pays for dinner, whether he is a date or just a friend (I have chivalrous friends).  I greatly appreciate their actions, but this isn’t something you keep score with.  Their actions are part of a relationship.  If I can do for them, I do.  No, I don’t like it if he pays the tab, all the time, and I will offer cash.  Sometimes, the bill is ripped out of my hands, or my money is thrown back at me.  Okay, then!  I don’t think a man has ever bought me dinner because he felt obligated to do so, and that’s the best kind of “free dinner,” because it means something.
    It all comes down to respect.  Man or woman, if you care about someone, you will throw the rules out the window to do for them. 

  27. 268
    Ron Diggity

    Why should the man pay for the first couple dates to show “he cares” or “he cherishes you”?? He doesn’t even know you yet!  I could see the case for down the road, him treating you here and there (NOT financing whatever lifestyle you feel entitled to, simply b/c you are a woman).

    I also find it funny how women find it easy to spend another’s money for them ,suggesting restaruants they themself could not afford on their own.  Way to treat yourselves, ladies! lol.

    As for the writer of this letter, I think he should dump her immediately.  If she is THAT selfish, and is likely to be fly off the handle on being confronted with this, she will be nothing but a pain in the ass down the road.  Dump her with quickness!

  28. 269
    Ron Diggity

    Having gone back and read through a lot more of the post, it’s kind of amazing how at best dating is like legal prostitution and at worst is defrauding men of money.  If you need a man to spend money on you to feel good about yourself, that’s pretty sad.  And let’s be honest here ladies – most of you approach sex as some sort of “reward” you give a man after he has met your standards, be it jumped through certain hoops or spent enough money on you.  Few of you will admit it, but your actions and verbal hints speak loud enough.

    It’s funny how women will try to use the old “women may use men for money, but they try and use us for sex!” argument like it’s apples to apples.  Last time I checked, (consentual) sex was relatively enjoyable for both parties, while getting robbed is not.

  29. 270
    jbv

    Came across this from a random google search.  I am glad you got out of that relationship David.  I am hoping the next post from you is that you met an amazing girl.

    I was dating a girl that also didn’t ever seem to show appreciation for things.  Even something as simple as a “thank you” rarely left her mouth.  When we went out for ice cream she would be quick to order for HER ice cream and pay for what SHE wanted vs. asking me what I would like despite the fact that I would pay for dinners or other random things.  I tried to indicate to her that she had to start chipping in for little things but she never got the message.  The biggest thing that bugged me was she would never have actual cash with her so if she did want to buy something she had to stop to take money out.  

    If  you are a girl reading this, I think the key is to show you appreciate the guy.  Thank him, maybe buy a coffee/tea/drink/dessert from time to time, cook him dinner (she said she was going to cook me dinner but never took initiative to actually do it).

    In my gut, I always felt unappreciated and somewhat taken advantage of (even though I voiced my concerns she didn’t change much).  I think that caused me to be very hesitant in seeing a future with her because I couldn’t see myself married to someone like that.  Even my female friends were treating me nicer than this girl I was dating.  My friends bought be more thoughtful birthday gifts than her, would be more interested in my day/to day life, etc.  I don’t really get it, I guess some girls do feel entitled or something.  Or maybe she just enjoyed doing “fun” things…. I am hoping that I act on the signs quicker next time around and meet a “nice” girl.

    I don’t know how old these posts are, but, David, if you ever decide to come back, please update with how things are now.  Even though I am realizing a lot of negative things about this recent girlfriend (if she is even worthy of being called that), it still hurts…
     

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