If Men Like Only Hot Women, Where Does That Leave an Average Woman Like Me?

If Men Only Kike Hot Women, Where Does That Leave an Average Woman Like Me?

Dear Evan,

Why do dating experts for men teach them how to get the hottest women possible? Unlike women, they are rarely told to date someone they might not find attractive at first because she might grow on him. As an average looking woman (I am fit, well-groomed and fashionable, but I know that I am not a bombshell. I don’t make people gag, but I don’t turn heads either.), I feel that no man is going to find me desirable because all men feel that they deserve and can get the hottest woman out there. Just where does that leave women like me? 

Tia-Maria

Dear Tia-Maria,

Thank you, thank you, thank you for asking this question. A few months ago, I promised to write a post about shallow men, and this note from you is the perfect excuse.

First, a story:

When I started writing Why You’re Still Single, back in early 2005, I was working with a different woman than my eventual partner, Linda Holmes. This original partner was a noted matchmaker who brought a certain credibility to my pet project – she’s experienced in her field, she’s telegenic, she knows plenty about single people, etc.

One of the first chapters I completed was called “The Beauty Myth Is Not a Myth.” It didn’t necessarily debunk Naomi Wolf’s seminal work, but it did establish one very important concept that women need to understand: Men are as shallow as advertised. And while women can beat their heads against a wall, wishing that this were not true, they’re fighting a real losing battle if they expect men to stop worshipping at the altar of beauty.

Like much of my advice, it can rub a woman the wrong way. But I wasn’t condoning the behavior, I was merely reporting it. This is what men do, whether we like it or not. Yet my writing partner felt so unnerved by my stance, that her version of the “Beauty Myth” chapter only served to contradict everything I had written.

She mentioned that she was in the business of connecting souls.

She stated that as men mature, they learn to appreciate inner beauty.

She encouraged women to hold out for the kind of guy who isn’t as focused on the outer packaging.

That’s when I fired her from the project.

I tell this story not to make myself look good (clearly), but because I refused to put out a book that gave bad advice. And make no mistake about it – telling women to hold out for men who don’t care about looks is BAD ADVICE. Why? Because men like this are as common as Halley’s Comet….

Here’s an excerpt from Why You’re Still Single:

“I am not suggesting that men are pure objects of lust with all the depth of a bathtub. Nor am I suggesting that men don’t have the ability to love and accept any physical imperfections. They can and they do.

Just not as much as women. At least in my experience as a dating coach where I have the unique privilege of being given access to some of my clients’ online dating accounts. And after years of doing this, I’m still flabbergasted that no matter how unattractive a man is – no matter how little hair is on his head, or how much on his back – he STILL has the same twenty-something supermodels on his favorites list as if he was Colin Farrell.

Yes, Shallow Hal lives – and I believe he lives in a majority of American men. Men who are 5s want women who are 10s. And women who are 5s are often left out in the cold, at least in L.A., where I live…

Men who are 5s want women who are 10s. And women who are 5s are often left out in the cold.

If anybody should be judged harshly, it’s men for refusing to let women age gracefully. Most men do not break out of gender roles and societal expectations. So while you may know a handful of men who don’t care about looks, they are rarities. They are the gold standard, the type that every woman should be striving to date. But if you’re under the illusion that they grow on trees, it’s time to wake up and smell the Kiehl’s anti-aging lotion. The number of guys who are “above” the whole looks thing may fill a classroom, but not a stadium, and definitely not a big enough portion of the male population to suggest any type of trend.

In a weak moment, I bet that even the most non-judgmental guy around would say that he wants a mind, soul, and body connection – but only if she takes care of her body.

So, Tia-Maria, why do dating experts tell men how to get the hottest women possible? …

Because that’s what men want. Plain and simple. Dating experts try to sell products by connecting with readers’ basest wishes. And for men, the holy grail is to be able to get the hot girl. What these men rarely consider is that the hot girl might also be emotionally bankrupt, unintelligent, flaky, humorless, and lack basic human empathy. These details don’t concern them. Men’s repeated refrain: “I can’t help what I’m attracted to.”

Who do we blame for this? Men, of course, but there’s more than enough responsibility to go around. After all, women buy into the Beauty Myth just as much as men do. Advertising and media saturation reinforce the image of perfect bodies and skin, and women spend thousands of dollars each year striving for an impossible standard. And to please whom? Men? Themselves? I’m not sure anyone can agree on this stuff.

And where does this realization leave you, Tia-Maria? I would say right back where you were before. Secure in who you are and who you’re not. Validated in your opinion that men are impossibly shallow. And rightfully concerned that you’re going to be overlooked.

Despite my shallow man diatribe, please bear in mind that there is a lid for every pot. Just look around. Most women don’t qualify as “hot” in the Maxim sense, and yet they still get married. The real struggle is in keeping a healthy perspective and a positive attitude until you find the right fit.

So don’t worry about what you can’t control (men); instead, take care of what you can control (yourself).

And trust that the right man will love you as you deserve to be loved.

 

For more commentary on shallow men, please read:

Where Are All The Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men?

How Come Everyone I Want to Meet Online Isn’t Interested In Me?

Are Women More Likely Than Men to Require Chemistry To Go On A Second Date?

Online Daters Are Shallow! And Water Is Wet!

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Comments:

  1. 181
    Still Looking

    Greg @ 180
    I agree with you in principle but almost all of us stereotype to some extent.
    Women on this blog are cautioned to stay away from the alpha male 10s; the “Pity the Pretty” blog is full of stereotypes; and I admit that I am now quite averse to dating women who I assume have had a pampered existence because I assume they will be high maintenance.  

    Can you honestly state that you don’t stereotype, to some degree, the women you date based on looks, occupation, income level, former husband’s occupation, etc. ?

  2. 182
    Helen

    I’m average. I’ve been married as happily as one could expect (there are always occasional bumps in marriages) for 13 years. You don’t need to be smoking hot. You want to know what works? Striving to be happy, and showing constant appreciation for your beloved.

  3. 183
    Kay

    @Greg

    ” For example would it be fair for someone to pass judgment on an entire ethnic group based on their bad experiences with a few members of that ethnic group? ”

    No it’s not fair but it’s a REALITY, my reality. Have you ever been pulled over for being black or stopped by the cops for just walking down the street in an affluent neighborhood?  Have  been harshly judged for being a black man in the US? Maybe you haven’t but what about your male family members and/or male friends who have been subjected to unfair but real experiences in their own lives.

    Listen I’m not attempting to get off topic and I didn’t create the stereotypes about black women but unfortunately I have to be in it, live it breathe it and experience and until you can say you know how that feels I don’t think what you’re saying is really relevant to my experiences. 

    Josephine Baker is a prime example,  she couldn’t make it in America for the very same stereotypes about black women we experience today and went over to France and she literally was treated like royalty! It’s all about location IMO and if a black woman or any woman for that matter can’t get past the stereotypes then she must move on to a place were she is more accepted.  In America she faced racism and was very limited so she decided to go to France and in France she was considered the most sensational woman anyone ever saw.  My point being is my reality is going to be so much different than someone else’s reality and that’s okay, I’m not here telling anyone to buck up, you’re negative, I’m not here minimizing someone else’s experience.   I inevitably plan to follow in her footsteps and branch out into the world, I’m certain there is more to offer than what I’ve experienced here.

    There are many women here that feel the same way in a different but similar context.   So Greg let’s not debate this because honestly you can’t relate, and you probably never will be able to, you’d have to be a black woman to relate and that you’re not.

  4. 184
    Kay

    @Greg

    ” However, this is exactly what you’re doing.  You’re being emotional instead of logical ”

    Oh and the emotional vs logical, seem like a passive aggressive put down as if my emotions doesn’t render me a logical thinking human being and this is why I don’t date men in the US, men like you are everywhere, I could throw a coin on the street and touch a couple of you in a matter of seconds. My emotions or my logic has nothing to do with my experience. I’m not crying or losing control, I’m saying men in the US are shallow and if you read through these comments I’m not the only woman whose said this and if what I’m saying doesn’t apply to you then we shouldn’t really be having this discussion.  

    You do know that women can be emotional and logical all at the same time? We have that ability Greg, I know some men are limited and can only focus on one thing, one emotion at a time but fortunately women are great at multitasking her life and her emotional life as well. 

  5. 185
    Greg

    Of course I stereotype people. It’s a human tendency. However, not everyone conforms to a stereotype, so I try to not buy into stereotypes.  Based on my personal experience I could easily believe that all women love jerks. However I know that in actuality there are women who despise jerks and are looking for a healthy relationship  

  6. 186
    Greg

    Kay,
    Go ahead to Europe. I think you will find though that men are men everywhere. America didn’t invent racism. Racism/classism/hatred is everywhere and has been around throughout human history.  You can’t escape it just by moving. 
    Your Josephine Baker argument is moot because although she didn’t have success in America other black women during her time period did. Today artists like Kelly Rowland and Kelis don’t get major airplay here in America but do much better in Europe. Yet other black artists like Kelly Rowland’s former bandmate Beyonce and talentless hack (in my opinion) Rihanna dominate the US charts in music.  Some peoples music is just more appealing to Europeans. It’s not that Europeans love black people more than Americans. Would Oprah be a billionaire in Europe? Probably not, because her type of show isn’t as popular there. Yes racism DOES still exist, but black women in American can STILL succeed and get married.
    I also wasn’t making a put down. Emotional and logic many times are different. My emotional response based on MY REALITY is that most women are shallow, status-loving, jerk loving and only want men over 6 feet tall.  However, the logical side of me knows that not all women are like that. The evidence is all around me as I see short men, who aren’t jerks and who don’t make 6 figures get married.  My dad is only 5’6″ and has been married 30+ years while his much taller brother has been through several bad relationships.
    Finally I would note that Helen and Nicole just made great comments.  Average looking women get married all the time.  The funny thing is that out of the pretty women I grew up with or dated, only 1 of them is still married (all are under 30 years old). The rest married cheating jerks and quickly got divorced, or they wasted or are still wasting time in dead end relationships with guys who won’t commit.  However the average women I know have had much better relationship success and are still married while the pretty ones are still looking for dates.  Just goes to show that looks aren’t everything.

  7. 187
    Kay

    @Greg

    Why is it an issue for you? I’m taking a couple of years off to live and travel and hopefully meet a great guy. I’m taking control of my love life and I see nothing wrong with that.

    As I said before if my shallow comment doesn’t apply to you then you shouldn’t really be offended nor defensive about this subject.

    If I don’t fit into the category of black women that don’t succeed in marriage in the US then it’s up to me to change that. I appreciate you taking the time to respond but let’s not make this out of a huge debate and go on and on.

    I’ve traveled and I know I’m deemed as beautiful and valuable as any other race of woman and now I’m making that move more permanent and I’m happy to say there is a huge community of black women doing the exact same thing I am doing and I feel it’s justified, no one should have to go without love and/or a loving partner, there is somebody for everybody and if that somebody happens to be in another country on another continent then so be it. Men travel, meet women in Russia, Brazil, China, Korea, all over the country and don’t get half the flack you are giving me.

    I stand by my statement, if I change my mind it won’t be b/c of anything you have said so I think this conversation is going around in circles at this point.\

    Oh and Greg I’ve been to Europe, I’ve been to Denmark, Italy and the men aren’t half as distant and shallow, I believe one woman here on this thread commented that she ranges from a size 4 to size 10 and European men loved her size 10 versus the men here in the US preferred her size 4.

    I’ve traveled extensively and I can attest that my experience with men was awesome, my dance card was full, I dated way more than I’ve ever dated before in my whole life, the way I was treated is really indescribable, first time I wasn’t treated like a stereotype but treated like a real woman and coming back home to the same ole BS only reconfirmed that I needed to change my location if I wanted a chance to have what I wanted.

    Going from invisible to being relevant was an awesome experience and I would encourage women of color to take that journey if she’s having issues with being seen as valuable in her own country, there are men out there that will appreciate you and value you just as worthy as any other race of woman, if you’re not having luck consider moving to a country that can appreciate what you have to offer.

  8. 188
    Greg

    Kay,
    I have a friend who married someone from Germany.  I’m not giving you flack for branching out.  I’m giving you flack for being bitter and hypocritical.  You don’t want people to negatively stereotype you, yet you make negative and unrealistic sweeping generalizations about millions of american men you don’t even know.   American men may suck for you but some women think American men are the best ever.  Go figure.  I would encourage anyone to expand their options, but there’s no need to make sweeping negative statements about men who happened not to want you.  You’re taking rejection way too personally.

    My friend found success because she wasn’t bitter and didn’t think all men were this or that.  She was just enjoying life and happened to meet someone while overseas.  She had a positive outlook and no she wasn’t physically attractive at all.. But she was super cool and fun, did the best she could with her looks and found someone.

    You seem to automatically assume everyone is attacking you and that will scare men off.  I would tell you to tone it down a bit, but you already admitted that you don’t listen to anyone.  I’m not offended by your sweeping comments at all because I know they’re not true.  I’m just trying to kindly let you know that quality men smell bitter women a mile away and usually head in opposite direction.  Fair or unfair, decent men tend to assume that bitter women are emotionally damaged due to past negative experiences.  You don’t want anyone to think that about you.  So please cheer up a bit!

  9. 189
    Saint Stephen

    @Kay
    Please listen to Greg, he speaks nothing but the truth which I know you don’t feel like hearing. The girl I’m presently dating is plain average – A lot of folks even said I look much more attractive than her, but her personality won me over and I now see myself heading to the altar with her.  Stay positive and screen men for character first and you will find love wherever you are.

  10. 190
    Kay

    @Greg

    Why are you invested in my feelings Greg? If your perception of me is bitter and hypocritical well that’s okay, you’re entitled to your opinion as so I.

    Try not to be so attached to my words. I’ve never said I don’t listen to anyone but yet you’ve said that I said I don’t listen several times already   and I’m not sure why you are putting words in my mouth but it’s clear you are the only one not listening because not once have I acknowledged I’m not listening to you.

    You seem deeply attached to my perceptions about men being shallow, ironically I’m not the only one with this view but your invested in my words personally and haven’t went through the 100+ comments that appear to mirror the same view as myself. Interesting.

    I stand by my statement take it or leave it….I prefer you leave it.

  11. 191
    Greg

    Kay,This is what you said in post #177. “I’m NOT listening to anyone but me.” So I am correct in assuming that you don’t want to listen to anyone.   “The real struggle is in keeping a healthy perspective and a positive attitude until you find the right fit.  This is the whole point of this blog post/article. I think you missed it.
     

  12. 192
    Kay

    @Greg 

    You misunderstood my statement. You said ” Stop listening to negative statistics and stereotypes.” And to that I said I’m not listening to anyone but me, I did not mean I wasn’t listening to you Greg.
    I haven’t missed the point of the article, I actually agree with Evan…

  13. 193
    Jayashri

    Uh, two words. Sexual selection. It explains everything.

  14. 194
    D

    I don’t get it. If they are looking for the hottest women, they are going to keep looking for the hottest women till they keel.

    I find often that men sometimes like women with nice bodies, but the faces are pretty plain to me. (Like Britney Spears.) Like, I noticed that it is easy for a woman to trick a man into thinking she is attractive. A red dress, long straightened hair, the right makeup, a right attitude, and skinniness, and a woman with a ho hum face becomes attractive to men. At a wedding, a woman was wearing red and dancing in the middle of the floor and suddenly men started coming up to her. In other words, women who men consider hot are not actually pretty, a lot of the time.

    Also, to the men that say that women are looking for men with looks and money, but especially money. Many of the women I know are not specifically looking for money. Please note that I am 25, so that might be a factor. I think that the type of women that I see men chase after and comment about, what Louis CK calls “the hot girl at the bar,” might want money and power because she has her pick of the litter. Basically, you are judging what a woman wants if that woman is a 10. A lot of the women who are looking for relationships are not the 10s.

    I, unfortunately, judge people way more on their looks than on their money. This is a self esteem problem with me. In my experience, I find that the difference between dating someone who has a decent amount of money to someone who does not (like someone pursuing a degree), is comfort with them paying or being able to go on fun dates. I find it gross when a guy looks at the bill like it’s on fire or asks to split on a first date. When I went on a couple of dates with a guy with a decent salary, there was not tension with him paying because he wanted to go to cool restaurants (not that pricey.) I usually offer to split and/or voice my reservation, but it is cool when we don’t have to restrict dates to going to parades or lunch and can easily go anywhere fun without me feeling guilty.

  15. 195
    hespeler

    36

    “Actually, Sam, I disagree. I don’t think you have to look like a model to have a boyfriend – not by any stretch of the imagination. But I do think that with the advent of online dating, when men are scrolling through pages of pages of women, there’s very little incentive for them to write to average women when they feel like they can take a shot at a model. They may be delusional, but it doesn’t stop them at all.
    People go online and complain that the people they DON’T want write to them, and the people they DO want won’t write back.
    So more realistically, the average person is a 5 who wants to date an 8. The problem is that most of us think we’re 8′s.
    Therein lies the disconnect – and the source of the disappointment.”
    The above I believe is an unfortunate reality many of us have to face.  However, there are always gray areas that I believe lead to confusion and make it easy to say I’ll go for the 7 but very difficult to actually follow-through.  Allow me to explain.
    Things are usually not black and white, I think we can all agree on that.  What do you say to the person who complains that most of the time the girls/guys they are most interested in don’t write back to them but does have some success here and there?
    Of course I’m talking about me personally and my experiences.  In my 2 years of online dating, I am typically frustrated that the women I’m really interested in don’t write me back.  But it isn’t always the case.  I’ve been out with around 40 women from online, most I have been the one to turn down a second date (in retrospect I may have made some bad decisions).  I also occasionally get a really attractive one (about 3 or 4 times).  These are interspersed between getting ignored by a bunch of women as well as writing back and forth with hot ones that sometimes just fizzle out before I get a number (that’s part of online dating too).  On the dates with the hot ones, I seem to create some chemistry and sometimes it leads to a make-out session so I’m obviously not repulsing them and I feel at the time being at least that I’m in their league.  BUT, I have never gotten to date 2 with the highly attractive ones even though I got the attraction sparks flying enough for an open-mouth kiss.  A couple of times the girl was pretty crazy and it didn’t bother me but the others I obviously felt a huge disappointment in not getting to round 2.
    The point I’m trying to make is…when you have some flashes of success, albeit few and far between, it makes it that much more difficult to compromise.  I often feel that I’m interesting and attractive enough to get the attention and the company of the top 5% but not interesting and attractive enough to keep them around.  Therefore, I tell myself to just hold out because if I can get a date with the top 5% every now and then, maybe the next one will stick.
    Then there are other times (like now since I’m still disappointed in a recent one-date wonder with a 10) that I feel as though those highly attractive women that I have dated have been a fluke and that maybe they were just bored and wanted to get out of the house for a while and were never really interested in me. 
    For me, I can get access to the really hot ones from time to time but they always turn out to be nothing more than a tease.  The more average-looking girls seem great and more readily available.  Why choose loneliness and frustration when potential happiness is possibly attainable?  Sounds simple but around and around we go chasing women (I guess the same goes for women chasing men) that are elusive and maybe unattainable.
    By the way, here’s my stats so to speak: I hate to bring up height because I think it’s way over rated but I’m 6’2″, very fit, and make six figures (though in my part of the US that is not a lot of money).  Judging by what people on here write, I’m in the upper percentile in desirability.  Still, the really beautiful ones are elusive.  I will add I am trying to attract girls in their mid to late thirties (I’m 38).  I’m not that delusional and think I am going to get the 25 year old model in Manhattan.  As strange as this sounds, I don’t even think I want her at this point in my life.
    Is it worth the pursuit anymore?  I’m not so sure. 
     

  16. 196
    daling

    questions for verbosity
    “Also, are you positing that men s preoccupation with looks is a direct result of women s preoccupation with men s wealth?” – Yes.
    1. I thought men were just biologically more visual so wouldn’t it be more logical to claim that women’s preoccupation with men’s wealth is a direct result of men’s preoccupation with women’s looks? Seems like rather than accept both genders have shallow standards you want to blame the blame game.
    “You seem to be saying women deserve the shallow standards of men BECAUSE they themselves have shallow standards concerning men s wallets.” – Yes. Your characterization of men as shallow is unwarranted, and also posits that women somehow are ‘better.’ 
    1. Shallow was applied both genders so how to does the sentence to taking it to imply women are somehow better?
    Seems to me that the only one posits that another gender is somehow better is you with your women casued and deserve the shallow standards of men. 

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  18. 197
    Ashley

    The author clearly has never ventured into the BDSM community where there are hosts of submissive men yearning to worship women of all varieties. 

    I can, and pretty much have, made every guy I’ve ever wanted, fall in love with me…and I’m not a ten. I’m smart and I realize that women have exponentially more power than men do.

  19. 198
    Mavis

    maybe i’m being unrealistic here, but i don’t really want a man who has to “lower his standards” to date me. i want someone to think i’m beautiful. i know that conventionally, i’m average. but i also know that love is blind, and i have found conventionally average men to be very good-looking (in my eyes) once i got to know and love them for who they are. why can’t men do the same? instead of a guy saying to himself, “well, she’s just average, but i’ll settle for that becuase she has a good personality,” why can’t i expect a man to fall in love with me and honestly believe i’m beautiful? i know i’ll never be considered a 10 to most people, but i would like to be with someone who is a “10” to me and vice versa. however i recently joined an online dating site and it’s been making me feel a lot worse about the way i look and dating in general. i messaged a few guys who i would consider to be average-looking, and had something in their profile that interested me. i later logged in to find that these men had viewed my profile and not responded. the majority of messages i seem to be getting are from very overweight or much older men. (the last one was 65, and i’m 30). as i said before i’m average-looking, but i expect to be able to date someone who is in my age range (give or take a few years) and at a healthy weight (as i am). however it seems as though these “average” men want the “10s” and this is where it leaves me. basically just like the article said.

  20. 199
    CaptainObvious

    Um…is it just me, or is this all very fucking obvious? Physical appearance is a large component of mate-selection. Whoop-di-doo.
    But what does “good looks” mean? Surely the evidence around us all, every goddamn day, would lead us to the conclusion that “good looks” has a very broad meaning. I won’t say subjective, though there is of course an element of the subjective in any aesthetic value judgment. There are some objective elements…the Elephant Man is going to almost universally be deemed physically ugly. But that’s extremely broad. Everything in between “stunningly perfect, like a Greco-Roman sculpture in celebration of the human body” and “hideously deformed, almost creature or non-human looking” is fair game for the vast majority of people.
    Snub nose? Aquiline nose? Hook nose? Button nose? And that’s just one feature. There are endless possible combinations that lead up to a lot of unique “looks” that are capable of being found attractive by someone (and no one is attractive to everyone.) It’s called a niche market (to use appallingly capitalistic lingo in this kind of discussion…but so be it.)
    Of course, dating sites are a different game, but only because they’re mostly full of desperate, attention-seeking losers to whom the idea of algorithmic mate-selection (in the fashion of selecting pretty dolls or objects…like serial killers and their trophies) appeals. So you don’t want any of that anyway.

  21. 200
    Mavis

    um…i never thought of it quite that way (online dating, that is). i tried online dating because i am very, very shy. i thought it might help me to meet people without getting that anxious/panicky feeling i do when meeting them in person. however it seems to have backfired. i like to believe “good looks” has a very broad meaning, and to me it does. however it’s pretty hard NOT to believe that men follow a certain cultural standard of beauty. just to prove this theory, i created a new online dating profile, with basically the exact same wording as my own, but replaced my real photo with one of a model. now the responses are just pouring in. i’ve had as many people try to contact me in one day as i had in one MONTH with my regular photo. and i should add that even in my real photo, my hair and makeup are done, and i look much better than i do on a regular basis. if guys are rejecting my made-up photo (which they have) i hate to think of how they’d react to me in real life. and i’m honestly starting to think these guys aren’t too bright if all these average joes are rejecting me and seriously think they can get a model? get real!

  22. 201
    Rachel

    Most women have to take time off work because child care is too expensive this is why they ask about salary. And nowadays because of the cost of living  men are also ‘shallow’ about salary. I am temping at the moment and when I say that to men they lose interest!

  23. 202
    Charles

    As a very successful independent male..i just don’t see where a wife that doesn’t work or cook, clean, and raise children is worth the success i’ve earned or the risk that goes along with marriage and the man grinding family court system…a lot of people don’t realize it but lots of men are simply opting out.

  24. 203
    John

    The OP says this:
    I am fit, well-groomed and fashionable, but I know that I am not a bombshell. I don’t make people gag, but I don’t turn heads either.
     
    OK here’s the deal. If you truly are fit and fashionable then that means you have a good body and you wear clothes that are sexy though not trashy. And I can tell you that a woman could have a face like Medusa but if she has a good body and wears clothes that show it off a little, you will get plenty of guys. And if you have just a so-so face (better than Medusa’s) with a good body, you will get even more male suitors.
     
    So you either are not as fit as you say you are, you don’t dress somewhat sexy or you are just clueless that guys really are finding you attractive. There are many women at my gym that have below average looks but smoking hot bodies in their yoga pants and I would date any one of them. Some guys, me included, will consider a woman to be hot if she has a hot body regardless of her face.

  25. 204
    bernkastel

    where did you get your advices? soap opera? to start a relationship you need first: attraction. if the girl or guy is no attracted to you have no chance. i’m not very beautiful but i have my share of hot buys. however i only fall in love with those who posses a quility a love: maturity and life experience. also there is a difference between a smart women and a women with attitude who thinks she’s the best out there.

  26. 205
    Henriette

    It does seem that this issue is exacerbated by online dating, which gives clients the illusion of choice.  At a real life party, where there are only a few single women in attendance, a guy would probably be quite happy to chat with a cute-but-not-gorgeous woman who is 10lbs overweight but has a rockin’ smile.  However, online, he’d be more likely to ignore her for the petite Asians 10 years his junior; the blonde who’s showing cleaving in her photo or the Gisele Bundchen look-alike.   
     
     

  27. 206
    Jenn

    Mavis #203
    LOL I’m a 32 year old single woman and I did the exact same experiment. Lo and behold, I got the exact same results! Now, I’m no fugly loser (in fact I look better now than I have in years), but it’s so funny to me how guys BEGGED the hot chick for a date and wrote lengthy dissertations on why she should go out with them. While I got a respectable amount of replies at first, my real picture has never inspired that same level of fervor. Needless to say, it was quite the disappointment. I want so badly to be the kind of woman who gets that kind of attention but it will never happen. No matter how thin I get, or how clear my skin is now, or how good my teeth look now that I fixed them, I’ll never be the hot chick who gets hundreds of replies. And for the record guys, it is a huge fallacy that even average looking women constantly get a barrage of emails. Aside from the initial first weeks after a woman signs up, unless she’s drop-dead gorgeous, her “new car smell” wears off pretty quickly as the months go by. I want to find a relationship, yes, but in the meantime it would be a lot more fun if I had more men asking me out than I knew what to do with – just once. Just once I’d love to be that much in demand. Just once I’d love to know what it feels like to have men want to meet me that badly. 

  28. 207
    Scott

    Curious what Evan thinks of this advice: if you are a woman who does not rate herself a 10 on looks, pay attention to what Lyall wrote @59 and @60.  If I were a woman trying to decide what to “compromise” on, or “settle” for, I would pick confidence.  Plenty of single guys with decent jobs and basically pleasant personalities and an interest in a committed relationship have a deficit in success with women and feel pretty down on themselves.  You can be their savior.  And here is the best part: if you bolster his confidence, you are now dating a guy who is more confident!  Whereas, if you pick a short guy, even after you shower him with your admiration, he may be appreciative, but he will still be short (and I am saying this as a guy who isn’t tall).
    Not saying to pick a guy who lacks ambition.  You don’t have to pick a guy who lacks the skills and training to eventually be successful.  But the “diamond in the rough” is likely to be the guy who hasn’t yet had as much success with women as he would like.
    Plus there is a bonus.  You know who will be your bigest supporters if you transform your guy into a confident “winner”?  All his friends.  If he starts to get too big for his britches, they will remind him who he really is.  “Are you dumping Sally? Really? Do you remember what a loser you were before you met her?”  Not because men are decent human beings who appreciate how well you treated their friend.  Rather, because the guys know he is going to strike out when he aims too high, and they don’t want to have to go back to hanging out with the depressed, loser version of their buddy who constantly complains that he can’t find a date.

  29. 208
    Julia

    @Scott
     
    So all women who aren’t 10s should date unconfident men? It seems to me that would leave plenty confident less than 10 males single…..

  30. 209
    m

    “Plenty of single guys with decent jobs and basically pleasant personalities and an interest in a committed relationship have a deficit in success with women and feel pretty down on themselves. You can be their savior. And here is the best part: if you bolster his confidence, you are now dating a guy who is more confident!”

    @Scott – At which point he leaves the woman who has worked hard and stuck with him and built up his confidence for what he perceives as a “hotter” woman. In big cities, it’s a phenomenon so common it’s become a verb – “better-dealing”. If I’ve seen it once, I’ve seen it a thousand times.

    What’s in it for a woman who invests her time, resources, and feminine energy, in a “less confident”man — and gets left like that?
    No thanks.

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