I’m in my 30’s and I Don’t Want to Waste Time With the Wrong Men. How Soon Should I Find Out If He’s Serious About Marriage and Kids?

I'm in my 30's and I Don't Want to Waste Time With the Wrong Men. How Soon Should I find Out If He's Serious About Marriage and Kids?

Hi Evan,

My friends and I are all in the range of early to mid- to somewhat late 30’s and this is a very difficult time to find “the one”. When I was in my 20’s, I never worried about having to find out if my date/bf wanted kids or where he wanted to live or if we have the same ideas about money and spending. We would spend 2+ years together (not worrying about future or marriage) and then break up if we got sick of each other or fell out of love.

But now, let’s be realistic, how long do we really have to waste? I am almost 33. If I spent 2 years with someone and it didn’t work out, I would then be 35, and I want kids!

So, at this age, how soon is it okay to have a talk about what we want in life… 1st, 2nd, 3rd date? What if a guy that is amazing says he is unsure he wants kids and I know I want them? I drop him, right? If a guy in his mid 30’s thinks it is ok to date for 2 years and see if it is right, then my instinct is to let him go. By the same token, I feel that it is appropriate to KNOW by 6 months if this person is the one or not. Is this correct? Let me remind you that I’m not talking about people in their 20’s who enter into 5-year relationships. My friends and I want to be smart. I just ended a relationship with a guy after 6 months who told me he had serious doubts that I was the one.

How long until you should know (at this age) and how long until you should be planning to get engaged/married? I know people that get engaged after 6-8 months because they just know. I do NOT want to waste time. I am still considered young, but one long-term relationship that goes nowhere and I am 1-2 years older! If a guy tells me he wants to date for 2 years, then if we are right, he wants to get married, but then travel for a year before thinking about having kids, shouldn’t I run? I hope all of this makes sense. All of my close single girlfriends are in the same boat. We are all in the same age range and try to live by the “rules” of not bringing up marriage and kids and future goals or when we want those things. But shouldn’t we talk about that early on, in order to know we are on the same page? I want to date someone that is also looking for “the one” and knows that he wants it soon, just as I do.

Thanks so much, SK

Dear SK,

I couldn’t be more sympathetic to you. Now that I’m almost 37, most of my friends are in this 35-40 range, and there’s no doubt of the psychological toll that being single takes on them. The window to have kids is a narrow one, and, for that reason, it makes everything feel urgent.

The window to have kids is a narrow one, and, for that reason, it makes everything feel urgent.

I’m confident that just about anyone in your position would feel the exact same as you do. But, like an employee who has to grin and bear it when he’s got to work overtime, you have to figure out a way to smile, breathe deeply, and not get overwhelmed by your feelings. First, let’s try an exercise. Pretend you’re a guy for a second.

Now reread your letter. I’ll wait. Okay. Now that you’ve been privy to this woman’s pain, insecurity, fear and longing, would YOU want to date her? Because while you’re 100% entitled to WANT ANSWERS NOW, most guys don’t HAVE answers now – and they’re certainly not going to feel more inclined to date the woman who demands them. No more than you want to buy the car from the pushy used car salesman who has to make his monthly quota.

While you’re 100% entitled to WANT ANSWERS NOW, most guys don’t HAVE answers now… Playing it cool is still your soundest bet.

I just finished writing about this in my new eBook, “Why He Disappeared”, because it’s fundamental to understanding what makes men choose some women and not others. You’re 33. It’s a great age for dating because you’re young enough to be highly desirable to men in their late 30’s and early 40’s, you’re old enough to be over your twentysomething frivolity, and you’re serious about finding love. But you can’t be TOO serious. The more you approach each man as the potential father of your child, the more each man is going to recoil from your intensity. Playing it cool is still your soundest bet. My best friend married a 40-year-old woman, after two and a half years of dating. She didn’t pressure him once to pull the trigger. They just announced that they were pregnant last week. Another close male friend just married a 40-year-old woman, after two years of co-habitation. She DID put a little pressure on him, but it didn’t help her cause in any way.

Men don’t like to be pushed. My wife was 38 when I met her. If anything, I was the one who felt the need to rush and make decisions quickly, because I want to have kids and didn’t want to waste her time. As you may know, nobody’s cooler than my wife. So as much as you think you’re saving time by putting all your cards out on the table right away, you’re actually sabotaging yourself. There are things that my wife told me after 9 months together that I wouldn’t have accepted after 1 month, and vice versa. Once your guy’s in love, once he’s invested, you have much more power and leverage.

And by the way, your leverage is not in telling him to pop for a ring or else. Your leverage is in deciding whether you have a future, and, if not, walking away with your head held high. Walk away too soon because of YOUR timetable, and you may be shorting HIS timetable.

Learn how to embrace the concept of being cool and letting a man choose you without pressure.

Your concerns are perfectly valid, SK, but your methods for dealing with them come from a place of anxiety. We’re not that attracted to anxiety. So stop trying to figure out how to merge your bank accounts on date 2, stop hinting that you’d like a family on date 4, stop trying to KNOW things about your future when you’ve only been together for six months. YOU might think you know after six months, but if my wife – or my friends’ wives – pressured me or my friends for a decision after only six months together, none of us would be married right now.

You might not like to hear me telling you to just chill out, but it gets far better results than what you’ve outlined above.

Click below to learn how to embrace the concept of being cool and letting a man choose you without pressure. It may not be easy, but for my wife, I’d like to think there are some great rewards…

www.evanmarckatz.com/products/why-he-disappeared.html

Your friend,

Evan

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Comments:

  1. 61
    vino

    “-Women produce 35% of their family’s income. (And we’ve had the equal pay for equal work discussion on a different thread, so we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.)”

    Not worth discussing in depth, but I’d note the usatoday article mentioned women’s preference for part-time work post children. FYI, this is a component of the so-called wage gap – women’s choice. Can’t ignore this, as it is central to equal pay issue.

    “-In families where both spouses work, 25% of the women earn more than the men.”

    – Um yea, last I read it was 30%, but whatever. That 5% isn’t material. Men still pay 96% of the alimony in the country. Want some of that equality? (relevant as to inequitable distribution of income)

    “-55% of mothers work while they have an infant child (51% within 4 months of the child’s birth)”

    “-80% of mothers work whose children are no longer in elementary school.”

    – I don’t debate these as gross numbers, but neither the 55% nor the 80% differentiate b/t single & married mums. Take out the singles & those #s drop. How much is the question.

    Why are we discussing this?

  2. 62
    A-L

    I agree that this issue doesn’t merit a big, long debate but the reason why I brought this up was because in your post you wrote, “If a woman takes 5 years off to help raise the kids when they’re young, she more often than not doesn’t return back to work, and certainly not at the same level if she does. I look at what happens more often than not. So the child support/alimony is likely to be pretty close as if she’d never worked.”

    It seemed that a good chunk of the whole alimony business was for women who never return to work, and you were saying that more often than not they don’t, and these statistics were indicating that it wasn’t the case. Though it’d be interesting to see what the statistics are for married people, I’m not going to spend more time researching this. That’s all.

  3. 63
    vino

    You may be right in part re: greater #s work than I thought.

    The alimony racket is just that. A racket. And it’s still awarded to women who do return to work (part time or full time who earn far less than hubby, which is the norm) just as it’s an incentive for women to not return to work (more time off = unemployable = longer, higher alimony), particularly if they married someone who earns a good living ($150k & up).

    Maybe it’s that I know too many divorce lawyers…

  4. 64
    Michael

    Maybe SK should meet men who are desperate to get married.

  5. 65
    downtowngal

    Karl, I’m not sure how I’m missing Evan’s point. And it’s not just guys in their 20’s who are undecisive.

    My point about guys in their 40’s who court younger women was based in personal experience. When I was younger I felt as if these guys were only interested in me for shallow reasons, as many hadn’t had relationships lasting more than a year or really knew what marriage was, and I had just gotten out of a 4 year relationship where we ended up engaged. And other than my child-baring abilities or religion I had little in common with these guys. So, yeah, I thought they were creepy. Not to say that all guys in this demo were like this, but now that I’m older I see the same types of guys who will only date women in their 20’s and aren’t serious about settling down.

    And Bob, you make a good point about communicating. I’ve heard guys say how women mention these things on a first date and it can be a turn-off. But I also think that there’s nothing wrong with communicating what you want. There’s no set time frame, you have to go w your gut.

    I’m also wary of guys who complain incessantly how women always want a commitment after 4 dates, when usually these women feel as if they’re being strung along and just want to know what this guy is thinking.

    And, lastly, about women & older guys, women outlive men and tend to take better care of their health. I’ve seen my aunt spend the last 20 years taking care of her husband who was 25 years older than she and had developed health problems. She was essentially his nursemaid, so instead of enjoying retirement together she was cleaning his bedpans in the middle of the night, couldn’t travel, had to wrestle with the HMO red tape, etc.

    1. 65.1
      Karl R

      downtowngal said:
      “I’m not sure how I’m missing Evan’s point.”

      You were suggesting that men in their 20s (who aren’t interested in settling down) should listen to some advice, follow that advice, and become good husbands for the women in their 20s who are interested in settling down.

      One of my favorite sayings is appropriate here:
      “I can’t change other people. I can only change myself.”

      That’s the reason Evan always directs his advice toward the person who is writing to him, not toward the person they’re having a problem with.

      If a man in his 20s isn’t interested in being a father yet, you can either wait, or you can find someone else who is. The same is true of men in their 30s or 40s. What does change is the size of the pool of men interested in fatherhood. It increases as the men move from their 20s to their 40s.

      Let me turn the situation around. I’m in my late 30s. I’m not interested in having kids, nor am I interested in raising someone else’s kids. I looked at the women on Match.com to see how many women did not have kids at home, and would be willing to not have kids (I included 1/3 of the “not sure” women in this count).

      Within 3 years of my age: 15% of the women
      4 – 8 years younger: 7% of the women
      4 – 8 years older: 45% of the women
      (and this is before filtering for other criteria which eliminated about 2/3 of the women across the board)

      I could complain about how most of the women my age are dead-set on having kids, and the younger ones are even worse. OR I can use this information as a map to indicate where I’m more likely to find what I’m looking for.

      “about women & older guys, women outlive men and tend to take better care of their health.”

      I was in a relationship with a woman in her late twenties who had two life-long health issues (one genetic, one since she was neonatal). Despite the age difference, I fully expect to outlive her and be more active than she can be. I had to think about how important those details were to me.

      “I’ve seen my aunt spend the last 20 years taking care of her husband who was 25 years older and had developed health problems.”

      That is something to consider before you marry someone. What issues are likely to arise during the marriage, and are you prepared to deal with them?

      Earlier this year I was dating someone who was 9 years older than me. Given how we feel about working, it’s entirely conceivable that she will retire 15-20 years before I do. That’s something I need to consider when I’m dating someone older than me (and discuss if the relationship becomes serious).

      Every relationship contains trade-offs. Some of them can be age-related. The best you can do is recognize the downside and make a rational decision whether you’re willing to deal with it when it arises.

      1. 65.1.1
        Honey

        This is why I think the argument that younger women (in their 20s) who want families should date older men (in their 30s and 40s) who want families is so problematic.

        Statistically, women outlive men. So even if you’re with someone your age, the man will probably die first. Why would you have kids with someone who is 10 years older than you who will probably die 5 years (or whatever the number is) before you? So you have to take care of his health problems and then he dies anyway and you have to finish raising the kids?

        This is purely hypothetical for me, as the BF and I aren’t having kids, plus he and I are the same age, and his family is extremely long-lived (men and women) while all of my grandparents were dead by the time I was in middle school, and my mom died (of a genetic illness I may have, too) after my first year of college.

        I just don’t think it makes any sense.
        .-= Honey´s last blog ..Is Your Love Style Blowing Your First Dates? =-.

        1. Joe

          I’m curious: how much of the “women live longer” statistics are skewed by the risky behavior of younger men? Things like the whole “younger men are riskier drivers” that the insurance companies use to jusify higher premiums. Things like having riskier professions (oil rig worker, cop, soldier, etc.) I mean, if men are dying at younger ages, they aren’t gonna be around to boost the old-man statistics. :)

          Do the “women live longer” statistics take this into consideration? Is a reasonably risk-free guy still likely to die before a reasonably risk-free woman?

        2. Karl R

          Honey said:
          “whatever the number is”

          According to a 2008 article in Time, average life expectancy for men was just over 75, for women just over 80.

          “So you have to take care of his health problems and then he dies anyway and you have to finish raising the kids?”

          If you’re starting your family when you’re 50 and he’s 60, this is a very valid concern. If you’re starting when you’re 33 and he’s 43, not so much.

          Joe asked:
          “how much of the ‘women live longer’ statisticsare skewed by the risky behavior of young men?”

          The Time article said the difference was probably 70% environmental and 30% genetic. Environmental factors cited were:
          – higher percentage of smokers
          – worse dietary habits
          – internalization of stress
          – risky behavior by young men
          – higher suicide rates among the depressed

          “Is a reasonably risk-free guy still likely to die before a reasonably risk-free woman?”

          My ballpark guess would be 1 – 2 years earlier.

  6. 66
    Hot Alpha Female

    Well you are spot on here Evan. I completely agree 100%.

    I guess I can’t talk from the perspective of experience because I’m not 30 yet, but I know that pressuring a guy to more commitment never actually helps with the relationship!

    Girls can’t stand it when a man put too much pressure on them and men feel the same way if not more.

    I think its difficult to say that there is a cut off point. Like after 6 months you can start drilling the guy on whether or not you are going to get married and have 3.2 kids.

    Its a bit of a catch 22.

    Hot Alpha Female
    The Only Woman You Should Take Dating Advice From
    .-= Hot Alpha Female´s last blog ..The "Hes Just Not That Into" Rules. Do They Really Apply? =-.

  7. 67
    A-L

    First off, THANK YOU EVAN! I’m thrilled to have the old posting system back. (I actually shrieked with joy. Sad, I know.)

    In regards to Vino’s #146, I suspect that Vino’s approach isn’t all that different from how most people start off looking for a relationship. You want that person where you have an incredible bond and you get the butterflies and it’s your dream come true, you get married, have your 2.4 kids and live happily ever after.

    I suspect that where some people veer away from that path is when they get too discouraged/cynical from the dating process, thinking that the dream-come-true relationship is never going to happen, and so they figure it doesn’t make much difference how much effort they put into the dating process and therefore just focus on the more superficial qualities (wealth/appearance) and just order up a spouse.

    I guess the dating challenge is to find the person who is no longer looking for the fairy tale (i.e., has realistic expectations) but still believes in the importance of an emotional connection/bond.

  8. 68
    Bob

    RE: #149 (A-L)

    Like you, I want to thank Evan for reversing the commenting system. It’s so much better this way!

    But I’d also like to note that you really got my attention when you said:

    “I guess the dating challenge is to find the person who is no longer looking for the fairy tale (i.e., has realistic expectations) but still believes in the importance of an emotional connection/bond.”

    Wow.

    Let me say that again: Wow.

    Long ago (in my late 20’s), I started to say: “The ideal woman for me would be 30+, divorced, with no kids. Because she would have gone through the fairytale marriage, and now has realistic expectations.”

    Please, don’t take that offensively…keep in mind it’s the perspective of a young man trying to make sense of his dating experience, and both men and women at those ages are far less likely to have well-defined expectations. However, as a man looking for a woman, it’s on the women I would naturally have focused my attention (the only man’s perspective with which I would be concerned would be my own.)

    At the time I was observing young (in their 20’s) friends, family and coworkers rushing into their first marriages, and I noted something bothersome. Many seemed to be naive about what they were doing, and definitely lacked clear expectations. They all seemed to have that fairytale expectation- “finally, I have someone and NOW my life will be perfect”. And then came the struggles, frustrations and divorces.

    It was then I noted divorced women in their 30’s (“older” women to me, at the time), seemed more settled, more comfortable with themselves, and more conscious of what was truly important to them. It was as if it took that fairytale marriage for these young women to learn to develop clear expectations.

    Now, to totally throw this on it’s head: It’s my contention that if one’s focus is to discover someone of great compatibility of spirit, rather than someone to fulfill the “fairytale marriage”, then one is more likely to end up with that very “fairytale marriage”.

  9. 69
    Bob

    Aww, hell, please ignore the “throw this on its head” in my previous post…as I re-read my post, it’s a meaningless clause. Guess what was in my head was different than what went out “on paper”.

  10. 70
    Helen

    The way vino has been arguing on this post is an immense turn-off to women in several ways. At first I had agreed with him, but then it just began to get ridiculous.

    He’s arguing as though he’s expecting his marriage (if it occurs) to end in divorce. That’s no way to approach a relationship: you have to approach it with hopefulness, an open heart, and love. His kind of cynicism is repelling.

    Even worse, he keeps talking about money, money, money, and comes off as an enormous cheapskate. Also very unappealing.

    Finally, he makes the assumptions that men don’t want to have kids, that only women want to have kids, and that women actually want to take time off from work to raise kids. What a narrow-minded way of looking at the world.

    Ugh.

    1. 70.1
      Jana

      Exactly.  From the beginning Vino’s post was so negative, unappealing, and repelling. Both women and men want to get married and have kids. Not only women. 

  11. 71
    Bob

    wow.

    And there is the heart of the matter-the disapprobation of a woman is more important than what a man has to say.

    You being “turned off” is utterly irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

    If you have something relevant to Vino’s statements…if you can refute his points…do so. But PLEASE, get off your high horse Helen… men are sick and tired of womens’ condescension and condemnation.

  12. 72
    Honey

    I don’t think that Helen meant a sexual turn-off, Bob. I think she just means that it’s sad when someone’s valid concerns are expressed in a way that will assuredly lead to unhappiness for not only the person expressing them, but everyone that person comes into contact with.

    I think that’s as relevant as it gets.

  13. 73
    Evan Marc Katz

    Gonna step in here and remind you that no one posts here to be attacked. I’ve already talked to Vino privately and I will say the same to any women who attack him: there is no room for insults on this blog. Should you repeatedly condemn another poster (as opposed to refuting an argument), you will be banned from posting.

    Life is too short for hating, so if you don’t like something, try staying above it.

    Thanks,

    The Management.

  14. 74
    Helen

    Honey, thanks for backing me up. I do apologize for hurting anyone’s feelings; that turned into more of a personal attack than I had intended.

    Let me try to state my viewpoint more clearly:

    We need children in order to propagate a society. Disproportionately, the burden of childrearing has fallen on women, even women who would frankly rather be in the workforce than have to take any time off at all (myself included). Parenting is a HARD, HARD job. It is not by any means a “free ride,” and anyone who thinks it is obviously has never raised a child! In fact, it’s the most undercompensated job: harder than just about any job in the world, and yet unpaid.

    And then for these criticisms to be levelled: that women have a “free ride” by taking time off to care for children; by discussions of how little she’s worth monetarily compared to her husband; by how she “makes the choice” to take time off (hey, if I could just plop babies out instead of having to spend time in a hospital, I would); by how she’s milking a divorce for all she can get monetarily without considering that maybe she has a broken heart and isn’t divorcing for money’s sake: Surely anyone can see why these assertions would be deeply offensive to women.

    Bob, you assumed far too much in your reply to me. I love men and do not condemn or condescend to them. And being turned off by those previous comments, as Honey pointed out, is completely relevant – because this is a dating blog. Surely it’s helpful to know what’s a turnoff (not in a sexual sense, but sure, that would be helpful too).

    Women are human beings, not just baby producers trying to stiff men for every penny they can. By seeing women as less of a commodity and more of a complex human, with a desire to give rather than just a mercenary attitude, men have much more success.

  15. 75
    A-L

    Re: Bob’s #150

    Thanks!

  16. 76
    Joe

    Helen sez:
    He’s arguing as though he’s expecting his marriage (if it occurs) to end in divorce. That’s no way to approach a relationship: you have to approach it with hopefulness, an open heart, and love. His kind of cynicism is repelling.
    You can call it cynical, you can say it isn’t hopeful, but you can’t say it’s na’ve. If you examine the issue dispassionately, the odds are basically even for any given marriage to end in divorce.

  17. 77
    LK

    Re: Vino’s question in #143… My reasons are pretty much identical to the three listed by A-L in #144, especially the part about fathers being important.

  18. 78
    Honey

    @ Joe, #158

    Being realistic about the odds of marital “success” and protecting yourself financially doesn’t have anything to do with being cynical. It’s possible to do the former and not ever treat the other person as if they’re scheming against your best interest from the beginning.

    I hope I never treat the BF as a statistic, no matter what happens (or doesn’t) in our relationship.
    .-= Honey´s last blog ..Accomplish Something to Become More Attractive =-.

  19. 79
    A-L

    Just wanted to clarify that the list in my #144 post was not put in any particular order (just as my list from #122 wasn’t). Since I am someone who is unsure whether or not I will have kids (it will be dependent on the spouse) I hope it would be obvious that the third thing I have listed (emotional bond) would have to be in place before I married, and that this wasn’t just an after-thought of what was required in a marriage.

  20. 80
    vino

    Wow. A few days away & it seems little ole me apparently ticked some people off.

    It’s not intended. Really.

    I find it almost universal of people that we in general (me included), hate having our points of view, assumptions, prejudices, and expectations challenged, and fight it accordingly.

    I know many don’t like the money discussions at times. I don’t either, btw. The reason it comes up so often is that it apparently is an underpinning of relationships whose main goal, it seems is to lead to marriage. Look at the threads – Finacee has $ and is Cheap, Who Pays for First Date, Settling (Gottleib-based thread), and others. So it is more than fair to say money is apparently a big part of relationships.

    Has anyone ever looked at the picture start to finish from 1st date to marriage (and its bastard cousin, divorce), and truly see who does bear the financial burdens from first date to marriage/divorce? Do many care? Or whether that is even equitable given that women can (& do) do every thing guys can nowadays. This isn’t 1909 when things were far different. It’s 2009 and I think you have to look at what happens now in 2009. That may not always be comfortable.

    I don’t want to have an ongoing debate over this on this thread. However, where I do see the “I want to have my cake and eat it too” approach to relationships and finances, I’ll likely comment.

    And please don’t make the mistake of assuming that I mean ‘all’ women do X thing or that ‘all’ men don’t want kids or are duped or, well, you get it…

  21. 81
    Joe

    @ Honey in #160: I never said a person’s desire to protect themselves financially was cynical, I was simply responding to Helen’s characterization of vino as such.

  22. 82
    vino

    Re: Helen’s 156

    Helen, with all due respect, you are not saying what I said. I ain’t gonna refute you point-by-point. However, that said, I’m gonna change but a few words of yours…

    Men are human beings, not just wallets and sperm producers and occasional babysitters. By seeing men as less of a commodity and more of a complex human, with a desire to give rather than just a mercenary attitude, women have much more success.

    See the other side? That’s what I’m trying (unsuccessfully, apparently) to convey.

  23. 83
    Bob

    @Honey #154

    Helen’s being “turn[ed] off”, in any form, by Vino’s explanations and perspective, remains irrelevant. To paraphrase Evan (as he’s often repeated): we don’t have to like how it is, but we do have to accept how it is.
    Helen’s post condemned Vino personally, rather than focusing on the points he makes (however unattractive/unappealing those points may be).

    Had she phrased it differently, to indicate how turned off she was by the current climate re: men/women/marriage/divorce, rather than accuse Vino of being “ridiculous…narrow-minded…a cheapskate and…cynical”, then the post would have relevance.

    Note also, that I made no inference to sexual turn-off, that was your projection: I merely quoted Helen’s phrasing (and to be clear, I assumed “turn-off” to mean in the general sense anyway).

  24. 84
    honey

    I get what you’re saying, Bob.

    But I don’t think the current climate re: men/women/marriage/divorce is a cynical one, overall. I don’t know any people like that IRL.

    I think there are more hopeful people than cynical ones. It’s just hard to be one of the former and keep encountering the latter.
    .-= honey’s last blog ….Accomplish Something to Become More Attractive =-.

  25. 86
    Michael

    Men are human beings, not just wallets and sperm producers and occasional babysitters. By seeing men as less of a commodity and more of a complex human, with a desire to give rather than just a mercenary attitude, women have much more success.
    This is true.

    Of course, men have to show by word and deed that they are more than wallets and sperm donors.

  26. 87
    vino

    Michael’s #168

    “Of course, men have to show by word and deed that they are more than wallets and sperm donors.”

    Huh? Please expand on that unsubstantiated insinuation with some fact.

    And btw Michael, in case you are unaware, women initiate over 70% of all divorces. Think about that. In more than 7 out of 10 marriages, women choose to relegate him to the wallet. Of course this is after she’s already had the child(ren) [ie - sperm donation]. So your insinuation that men in general have to show, is kinda refuted by the facts they, are, for the most part, not electing to break the family apart.

    I don’t want to get into debates re: ‘he did something causing her to initiate divorce’ The simple fact is that if someone wants out of a marriage, they are out, and women choose to start it over 70% of the time. Again, not all women are bad or do this… *sigh* sad I have to keep reiterating that.

  27. 88
    vino

    Honey said:

    “But I don’t think the current climate re: men/women/marriage/divorce is a cynical one, overall. . . I think there are more hopeful people than cynical ones. It’s just hard to be one of the former and keep encountering the latter.”

    I want to agree, but I don’t see people in general as acting that way. For example, Census noted last year that unmarried people head the majority of households in the US for the 1st time. A different way to say it is people are voting with their feet on the issue.

    And I agree on the difficulties of hope in the face of contradictory info…

  28. 89
    Honey

    I don’t think being unmarried is a marker of cynicism. It might be, for some, but I can’t imagine that it is for the majority. At least I hope not. I suppose it’s possible that it is, but that’s pretty impossible to know for certain.
    .-= Honey’s last blog ….Accomplish Something to Become More Attractive =-.

  29. 90
    vino

    I’m not saying it is the marker for it, but when a majority voluntarily choose not to marry, that tells you something. The reasons may vary greatly, but the end choices are the same, it appears.

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