I Want My Date to Pick Me Up. Does That Make Me a Princess?

I Want My Date to Pick Me Up. Does That Make Me a Princess
First, let me say that you have changed the way I view men and dating! I can honestly say that I’m having fun dating and have a newfound confidence in myself. But I’m not sure what to do about Chris, a nice guy I met on Match.com. He’s gone out of his way to make me laugh, he follows up via text after a date, and he’s smart, secure, and successful. We’ve been seeing each other a month and will soon have our fourth date. He’s a man with a plan, which I like.

Following your advice, I try to go with the flow and emanate receptive female energy. I like being the catch. However, Chris just texted me that I should meet him at his favorite restaurant for our next date, in his area of town, nearly a half hour drive away. I love the idea of mulligans and looking past our checklists, which I got from “Why He Disappeared” and your newest book, “Believe in Love”. This was a new concept for me. I looked past the sporty jersey Chris favors (I’ve always expected men to dress up for me), but I’m old-fashioned and want to be courted. I want to be picked up, not drive to a part of town I don’t know to meet a man. Yet I’m afraid of coming off as a princess. I’m torn. I like this guy but don’t want to ruin things by insisting he pick me up, yet I don’t want to drive to meet him either. I don’t want to overthink or overanalyze like I used to before I found your advice, yet I can’t seem to shake this one or figure out the best next move. Any thoughts?

Kate

Brian is tall, cute, sane, stable, and relationship-oriented. Even though he’s relationship-oriented, he’s still a man. In other words, he is driven by attraction, likes sex, and tends to move faster because of this. On the third date, he expects you to sleep with him, because that’s what everybody else does and if you were really attracted to him, you would, too. When you refuse, because even though you are attracted to him, you don’t like sleeping with guys who are still active online, Brian tries to negotiate for sex. Eventually he gives up. He says good night. He never calls you again.

Is Brian “wrong”? Well, not in his version of the story. In his version, you seemed really into him, you fooled around a bit, but you were ultimately a tease who had major issues around sex.

In your version, Brian was the guy who didn’t respect your boundaries, who felt entitled to getting his way, even when it didn’t feel comfortable to you. His inability to understand and respect your very valid needs is the reason you’re not seeing him any longer.

Brian acted like a petulant child who didn’t get his way. Don’t be like Brian.

In this hypothetical situation, I’m much more sympathetic to you than I am to Brian. Brian had a vision of how things were “supposed to go” on the third date and when they didn’t go that way, instead of going with the flow, he decided to put bail, and make up some story about how you were a tease to justify his behavior. In fact, Brian acted like a petulant child who didn’t get his way.

Don’t be like Brian.

By the time this blog post comes out, this situation will have already resolved itself. You will have either decided to go with the flow, because it’s no big deal that he asked you to meet him out for your fourth date, or you will have pulled the princess act and decided that this was a dealbreaker.

The major problem most people have in dating – as we can see – is that they have a script in their head about how things are “supposed” to go, and when it doesn’t go according to this script, it becomes problematic. But really, that’s just a form of selfishness, or narcissism or social autism – as if every one in the world has to do things your way or they’re “wrong.”

Men would much rather be appreciated than taken for granted. You’re a modern woman, not a princess.

In successful relationships, 95% of things are no big deal and you let them go, so that when you do speak up on the 5%, he pays attention. Which is why – if he’s a great guy, nagging him about his jersey is pointless. This 4th date chivalry thing is in the same category. If Chris has done everything right for three dates – calling, planning, driving, paying – this is exactly when you should be OFFERING to pick up the check or cook him dinner.

If that’s hard to fathom when I talk so much about feminine energy, it’s really quite simple. Men would much rather be appreciated than taken for granted. You’re a modern woman, not a princess. He’s a man, not a manservant and not an ATM. So really, help a guy out, will ya?

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Comments:

  1. 31
    SparklingEmerald

    I think I have read most, if not all of the comments, and so far I have not seen anyone address this part.
     
    “We’ve been seeing each other a month and will soon have our fourth date.”
     
    I think only 3 dates in a month is a bigger problem than the driving arrangements.  Seriously, 3 dates in a month averages to about 1 date every 10 days.  If a man is really excited to see a woman, I would think he would want to see her more often.  It almost sounds to me as if this man is a student of “Dr Love”, that cheesy love guru who advises men to wait 10 days to call a woman. 
     
    So we’ve had all sorts of speculation that this woman is a “diva” and that’s why she is making this a big deal, but for every dating guru who would call this behavior “princess” behavior, there is a another dating guru who will tell her that she must make a man “work for her” or else he will see her as “low value”.
    Perhaps the OP isn’t some snooty little Diva feeling entitled to the princess treatment, but perhaps she is sensing that this guy just really isn’t that into her, and she is picking up on that from the minimal amount of face to face time they’ve have actually spent together. And his asking her to drive out to meet him is just re-inforcing that for her.
    Personally for me, since I typically meet out for a first date, I really can’t “walk it back” and start insisting on being chauffered by date 4. So I personally haven’t made it a deal breaker.  If a guy asks me to meet him out somewhere, that in itself doesn’t signal much of anything to me.  I have offered to meet my boyfriend halfway many times, but he won’t hear of it, he always picks me up.  I think I have made a drive to see him exactly once.  The fact that he chauffers me everywhere despite my offers to meet halfway does make me feel special, but at this point in our relationship, if the driving were more of a fifty-fifty thing, I wouldn’t be offended by it. Believe me, his driving for me is something at this point isn’t EXPECTED, but it surely is APPRECIATED.
     
    Anyway, I don’t know the OP personally, and I don’t think there is enough information in her letter to speculate on what type of person she is, but here is my speculation, along with the admission that this is ONLY a guess on my part, only the OP really knows her motivations.  2 years ago, I wrote and EMK answered my question about how to make sense of all the different dating advice that is out there.  Honestly, when it comes to dating advice, you could ask 3 different dating “experts” a question about  who should pay, who should drive, when to have sex and if a woman should ever call a man, and you would get 10 different answers.
    Maybe the OP honestly is torn between wanting to be seen as “high value” while not coming off as a princess.
    As to the tired old accusations of “shit testing”, for all we know, HE could be shit testing her by asking her to meet him, to be weeding out “the Divas”.  Or maybe they are just two people who are honestly trying to navigate the world of dating, in a world where the once clearly defined gender roles are constantly changing.
    Anyway, I would have more of an issue with less than one date a week, than with who drives and who pays.  Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
     

  2. 32
    goldstreet

    Ladies DO NOT listen to these men or be discouraged by these men and PUA types who disparage treating a lady like gold.  Men these days will try to get women to lower their self esteem and expectations in order to have their way with women more easily.  This is the fantasy.  Don’t fall for it. The men I mentioned in my post, who treated me like gold, we had A LOT of respect for each other and they lingered around for years-everyone was happy and enjoyed each others’ company.  Nothing wrong with that!  I respected them and treated them well too!  They got home cooked meals, surprises, etc….all the normal stuff.  I should also mention that these were chaste courtships (no sex involved whatsoever).  Letting the men come to you- well this is also the advice that my FATHER gave me so I’ll listen to that before I listed to these PUAs. There are cultural differences between the US and other countries I think primarily due to societal changes negative images of women in the media, video games, porn, etc (freely available for sex with no effort required).  There are some good ones in the US- like my neighbor who properly courted his now wife (also with no sex involved until they got married).

    Noemi- Where does it say in my message that I won’t clean/cook/raise children?  I have no problem doing that at all.  I love the mom role!  This blog is about dating so that is what I am commenting on. 

    1. 32.1
      Noemi

      @goldstreet, it sounds like you have a “what can a man do for me” attitude. You seem to think that men should throw down the red carpet for a women. Maybe so, but my point was the following: if you expect a man to treat you like a princess, you better treat him like a prince. Meet him halfway. Giving him your time, feminine charm, and excitement is not enough:
      “You are giving him your time (time is precious for a woman who wants to have children), your feminine charm (I hope you act like a lady), comfort, advice if asked for, excitement, you are dressing nicely (you paid for the outfit), you are appreciating his efforts and making him look good, and so on.”
       
       
      In today’s times, we women have largely achieved the equality we fought for. 

  3. 33
    goldstreet

    Ladies let me also add that when you allow a man who is courting to to give what he wants to from his heart, you will respond in a way that is pleasing to the guy!  Ying and yang.  You are giving him your time (time is precious for a woman who wants to have children), your feminine charm (I hope you act like a lady), comfort, advice if asked for, excitement, you are dressing nicely (you paid for the outfit), you are appreciating his efforts and making him look good, and so on.  These things are indirect and more passive things, but they all are of value.  Dating is much more high risk and high stakes for the female.  Any man who doesn’t appreciate this isn’t worth your time.  No matter what anyone on here says, you should be respected and not have to go out of your way.  Good luck to everyone!

    1. 33.1
      Karmic Equation

      goldstreet,
       
      You’re giving women BAADDDD advice. While what you state may have been true in the 80’s and maybe 90’s, for 20 and 30 yo’s then, that is NOT the case for women in their 40’s living in the 21st Century.
       
      Men had fewer dating options in the 80s and 90s. There was no internet. Flying about the country was not a regular thing, not even for executives.
       
      Please, if you truly want to help your fellow sisters, give them advice for modern dating. Not advice for dating in the 80s. The advice you’re giving will ensure that they remain alone. not help them get into relationships.

  4. 34
    goldstreet

    Oh really?  Then please explain why I and many other women who take this approach have gotten proposals from good men?  Married, and happily so…in the 21st century?  Times change.  Basic male/female human nature does not. And ladies- NEVER let fear of being alone cause you to lower your standards, because men will try and use that fear to try and get their way with you with the easiest and fastest route possible.

  5. 35
    Kate

    Update: Thanks, Evan, for the advice! Indeed, as predicted, this night (and relationship) is over, but I have learned a lot. I think the real issue here–one that I failed to even identify when I wrote this letter–is that we had not, not even once, spoken on the phone. We had texted for months, but I just didn’t feel comfortable with him. Not comfortable enough to go to an unknown part of town (I’m a very urban girl, and he lived out near the boonies), and not comfortable enough to invite him over. 

    If if we had had a phone conversation, I might have said, hey, I don’t know that area. What’s it like? Or can we meet halfway? But because we only texted, I didn’t know what to do. That’s a mistake I won’t make again. Every guy I have dated since I have actually spoken to on the phone. It’s made a big difference! I will drive if I know you or know where we are going.

    So here is what happened after I wrote this letter: I did text him the night before and just asked what was going on, as most guys do pick me up for dates. I was just honest. He responded immediately that he would love to pick me up, and that he has daughters and was trying to be respectful of my safety. I was surprised by this. He picked me up and we did have a nice date. We even kissed. But he talked a lot about his ex-girlfriends, and how they’d taken advantage of him. He stated numerous times that now he had a “checklist” and process he had dates go through. Uh oh. I sensed that I was being tested! And that was a big turn off. In the end, I never saw him again.

    I said I would like to talk on the phone, but then he texted me several times saying he would call, but, disappointingly, did not. Did he not call because I wanted picked up? I doubt it. He seemed so wrapped up in past relationships and his checklist, I’m not sure he really even saw me.

    Finally, I do think relationships should be even. I’m happy to drive to a guy after we are exclusive. But before even one phone call? I want to be courted. And I’m ok with that. Here’s what I’m doing differently now: Talking on the phone before a first date. I know Evan has preached this for some time but I ignored it–I was too busy! But now I see it saves time and creates intimacy. Maybe even enough so that I would go out of my way on a 4th date. We will see. 

    Thanks again! It’s great to hear so many perspectives. 

    1. 35.1
      Lin

      You rather jump in a stranger’s car, then drive yourself for only half an hour when you have the opportunity to leave when you don’t like the situation… Has nothing to do with your safety I think

    2. 35.2
      Karmic Equation

      “We’ve been seeing each other a month and will soon have our fourth date. He’s a man with a plan, which I like.”



      Kate, I think you’re doing some rationalization here. In your letter you never mentioned that you hadn’t shared phone calls which were important to you. You implied that he was behaving in a manner to your liking. You didn’t make mention of the fact that you ONLY TEXTED for the duration of your short relationship. Had you put that VERY IMPORTANT (in hindsight) piece of information in your letter, you would have gotten different responses from most people, which is, “Why are you dating a guy who doesn’t want to talk to you on the phone when it’s something you indicated you needed/wanted?”
       
      With this piece of information, I would now have to agree with AAORK that you were indeed shit-testing him.
       
      Next time a guy disappoints you time and again during the dating phase, just dump him. Don’t put him through the shit-test first to stroke your ego and THEN dump him. Not cool.

      1. 35.2.1
        AAORK

        Yep, I detected a TON of rationalizations in her response. The “Shit-testing Rationalization Hamster” strikes again .. he didn’t get off cheap, but he did get off easy.

    3. 35.3
      twinkle

      Sorry it didn’t work out Kate; better luck next time.
       
      It’s interesting how u and Evan both emphasise the importance of phone calls, even a phone call before the first date. It’s not something I ever viewed as important before reading this blog and WHD. I’m still not totally convinced it’s super-important (or maybe I don’t want it to be, because chatting on the cell phone gets expensive, lol), but it’s given me lots of food for thought. Maybe I/we should incorporate more phone calls into rships.

        1. twinkle

          Thanks, Evan, I liked the video a lot. I agree with your general principle of making online dating more like “real-life”, like meeting someone at a party, being a good conversationalist, stepping outside together where it’s quieter and building a connection.
           
          I liked your suggestion of Scheduling phone calls, so that u don’t end up playing “phone tag”–that was one big thing I disliked about phone calls, and I’m sure many pple dislike that too. I’ll try that. =)

      1. 35.3.2
        SparklingEmerald

        Hi Twinkle – I used to try and follow the 2-2-2 rule and didn’t want to meet up in person until I got a phone call.   But after awhile, I had so many enthusiastic e-mail exchanges seem to go completely off the rails when we got to the phone convo.   It’s like  some of the guys HATED talking on the phone, would clam up, and then we wouldn’t meet.  My foray into online dating forums (besides this one ) revealed to me that many men HATE talking on the phone.  After giving and getting lot’s of “bad phone”, I came to hate it. And really, (for me) it’s harder to talk on the phone to a total stranger, than it is in person, because in person, you can be engaged in an activity, and you have the shared surrounding to spark conversation.  I don’t think a guy being bad on the phone necessarily makes him a bad relationship partner, or means he won’t be a good in person conversationalist.  
         
        So after some really excrutiatingly bad phone calls I decided to try going from e-mail to an in person meeting , UNLESS a guy completely initiated a phone call.  (Usually phone calls would happen because a guy would ask if I wanted to meet in person and I would give him my phone # and suggest that we arrange it by phone, or I would somehow manuever us to phone from e-mail) 
         
        Well after I made THAT decision, the very next guy that I had a good e-mail exchange with, set up an initial meet and greet by e-mail.  We had been having a very nice e-mail exchange (via personal e-mail), I liked his profile and pics, he seemed relationship oriented, etc.  We continued to communicate after we set up our meet and greet date, and I decided to just try an in person meeting withOUT the phone call.
         
        That was in December, and we are now a couple and so far, I am extremely happy in this relationship.  He is very good to me, I NEVER wondered where I stood with him, he pursued me from minute one, and claimed me as his exclusive girl early on, and it all felt very natural and organic.  I feel very loved and adored, and not only did I never wonder “where is this relationship going”, I never felt like I had to convince myself to be attracted to him or give him a chance.  (But there is more to us than feeling attracted)
        I think we have had ONE phone call in our relationship, but we spend enough time together in person, and we e-mail and facebook in between, that I really don’t feel like that anything is missing or that he is withholding anything from me.  My guy just doesn’t like to spend time on the phone, but he sure love spending face to face time with me. (and vice versa)
         
        So I let this one thing go.  Or rather, it just faded into irrelevance for me, because my sweetheart goes way above and beyond in every other aspect of our relationship, that I just will not make an issue out of the lack of phone calls. 
        So if phone calls aren’t that important to you, you might already be one step ahead, because it seems a lot of guys (mine included) really don’t like talking on the phone.
         
        JM2C, YMMV.

        1. twinkle

          Hi Sparkling Emerald, I remember being worried that u sounded discouraged about dating a few mths ago, and am so happy that u’re in a fulfilling rship now. 🙂
           
          I think the way u suggested a phone call to set up dates is a good move, though it didn’t work for u. I may try that in future.
           
          Yeah your bf sounds great overall, Evan himself says “Don’t hit on 20” in dating, like in blackjack. I guess for better or worse, many of us have greatly reduced our phone calls thanks to more time spent on social media. If u 2 spend a lot of your free time together, lack of phone calls isn’t a dealbreaker IMO.
           
          Despite our lack of phone calls, I’m actually happy with my bf and we think highly of each other. I’m grateful for Evan’s WHD book and I esp LOVE the regular email advice he sends to those who bought the book because I find they really speak to the heart and are v helpful  <3…The main ‘problem’ with my bf is he’s a middle-aged alpha-ish male bachelor. Hmm. It’s only thanks to this website that I even know it’s a red-flag. Yet he loves me, treats me well and prioritises me. I guess I’ll give it a try, (I tried leaving before and he stopped me) but it’s scary. As another commenter joked, maybe Evan’s next product should be a crystal ball. :p

        2. Gabri'el

          Hey Emerald, like Twinkle, I’m also happy to hear that you have found someone and that you are back with us, I always loved your comments.
           
          Twinkle, if you tried to leave your boyfriend but he stopped you – I’m guessing you allowed him to stop you, because you said he treats you good- , why did you want to leave if he is doing all the right things?
           
          I know how much Evan hates texting (he backs it up pretty good in his Ted-Talk video), but I’m curious, why he doesn’t include skyping in the 2-2-2 rule? You wouldn’t have to worry about fake or old pictures if you skyped… or I’m I missing something???

        3. SparklingEmerald

          Twinkle, Michael — Thanks for your kind words.
           
          Twinkle – I am glad to hear that you are happy with you “alpha-ish middle aged” boyfriend.  I am a little concerned (ok, I know I am a total stranger and it’s none on my beeswax)when you say you tried to leave him and he “stopped you”.  
           
          If he “stopped you” by agreeing to change some bad behavior you called him out on, or if you were only leaving because you were getting cold feet, and he warmed up your cold feet somehow, then fine.  But please, if he stopped you with some sort of threats, or emotional manipulation, then please RUN !
           
          I only say this, because I have witnessed up close and personal a relationship where a “player” became obsessed with a woman, “fell in love” (or decided that he found “the one” and wanted to own her).  They married, and this player-turned-one-woman-man married was so obsessed with her that the relationship was unhealthy and downright abusive, mostly mental abuse, but occasional physical as well, with lots of threats of physical abuse, usually not carried out, but sometimes it was.  She tried to leave him several times, and he “stopped her” with tears, threats and using their children to keep her.  He succeeded in stopping his “caged wife” from ever leaving.  (The biggest threat was “I’ll see you dead, before you divorce me”)  He could go from blubbering cry baby (I can’t live without you – crocodile tears, he was just a bully)  to threats of violence.  He even beat one of his children black and blue with a belt on some trumped up charge when she tried to leave him.  Needless to say, the relationship was extremely dysfunctional.  
          Some players, when they finally fall for a woman, they fall very HARD.  Sometimes they will treat her like gold, sometimes they think she owes him some sort of worship like he is a God, because the player guy who could bed several women, has now picked her to be “the one”, and if she doesn’t worship and give him complete obedience there is literal hell to pay.  And of course, the ultimate sin in the eyes of these men who think they are owed being treated like a God, is to leave them.  (or try to, they are pretty good at “stopping” their woman from leaving)
           
          I hope his “stopping you” you is not with threats or emotional abuse.  I hope my fears are completely unfounded.  
           
          Please, be safe.

        4. SparklingEmerald

          Oops, my first sentence should have read ” Twinkle, Gabri’el, thank you for your kind words”.


          Sorry Gabri’el, Michael replied to me in another thread.

        5. twinkle

          Gabriel and Sparkling Emerald, thanks for the well-wishes. 🙂

          Gabriel, I felt uncertain because I’d seen pple on this blog (both Evan and commenters) say that alpha males, or guys still unmarried in their 40s, were generally not the best bets for LTR/marriage.  My bf was also quite different from men I’d dated in the past. Those were some reasons why I felt unsure.

          Uh not a lot of pple I know like Skyping unless it’s someone overseas. But I think Evan would include Skype as a type of phone call, if u wanna use it. 🙂

          Sparkling Emerald, sorry I wasn’t clear, he didn’t try to stop me in a bad way, but thanks for the concern. 🙂 He is a v good-hearted person, not like the borderline-abusive guy u mentioned, thank goodness. What happened was as u summed up nicely–i got cold feet and he warmed them up. I was wary as thanks to this blog, I read of many women who had unsuccessful rships with charismatic long-term bachelors. And things were moving slowly IMO, but that was a lot of my doing–I’ve had some big problems in the recent past to deal with, and couldn’t meet him half as often as he wanted. Partly due to that, we only became bf/gf and traded ‘I love u’s around the 6mth mark, which is like 3 mths later than Evan seems to recommend. (although he did tell him he wanted me as his gf around 3rd/4th date, we never officially did that then).

          Because he seems sincere and we do love each other, we’re gonna give this a try. I’ve to be careful balancing between being a sucker who waits 3+ yrs w/o a > permanent commitment, while not being a fatalist who thinks it’s doomed to fail and then creates a self-fulfilling prophesy.

          I’m happy u have a rship with a guy who never causes u to feel uncertain though. That is the kinda guy and the kinda rship many women want, and the kind I hope to have.

  6. 36
    Chance

    Hi twinkle, I think age has a lot to do with it.   Many folks (male and female) under the age of 35 prefer text over phone.

    1. 36.1
      twinkle

      Hi Chance, U’re right, age plays a part, but I think texting appeals to many pple above 35 as well, because it’s so so convenient, more convenient than calling. However, phone calls do have advantages in terms of building rships. Btw as a guy, u can really set yourself apart by calling occasionally. 😉
       
      Recently, I’ve had relatively few first dates but they almost all went very well. So at least in my case, phone calls may be less critically-necessary before the first date, although I will still try it out as Evan recommends. As I understand from the video, Evan recommends calls before the first date as a method of seeking quality first dates over quantity, which I’m already getting.
       
      What I really need is to have more phone calls to develop budding relationships, to increase intimacy once we’ve already decided to continue seeing each other. Now I have a boyfriend but we’re not in the habit of calling. 🙁 So I think depending on what each person finds lacking in their dating life, they should tweak that part accordingly.
       
      It may be easier to start the habit of phone calls early on, to set the precedent.

      1. 36.1.1
        JB

        Well Twinkle me and my gal of 9 weeks are about 50/50 on the text vs phone chat thing. we just have one rule with each other if we want to chat either of us just texts “can you phone chat?” first so we’re not interrupting anything and that works fine.
        For the record on this gal I’ve been seeing. I sent 1 initial email to her she replied with “I’d love to meet you for a drink” and I emailed her back “sure what’s your schedule like” and 2 days later we met and have been happy ever since. She did text me the day we were going to meet and said “do you want to talk on the phone?” and I text her back and said “that’s ok we’ll see each other in a couple of hours I’m sure we’ll be fine”. We had no shortage of conversation but it was a little weird. I know it goes against the norm and especially what Evan teaches but this time it worked. I don’t expect to meet most women after 1 email and 2 days. In fact it happens very rarely if ever. The 2 2 2 rule is great on paper but for a lot of us(men AND women) that have been doing this a long time patience wears very thin. Sorry Evan. 🙂

        1. twinkle

          Hi JB, 50-50 for calls-vs-texting is really good I think. 🙂
           
          I guess u and that lady are very spontaneous people, which has many upsides. If u were both ok with things happening fast, I think it’s fine. As I understand from the video, though, Evan says many women in general are more comfortable with things moving a bit slower. That 2-2-2 guideline is a compromise between fast and slow. Just speaking for myself, I wouldn’t have wanted to meet a guy as fast as your gf met u–probably because I’m quite introverted and wouldn’t be sure yet if I liked him enough to wanna go out with him. But I’m very glad it has worked out so well for both of u. 🙂

  7. 37
    theOtherKindaMale

    Like skaramouche I’m from a large canadian city.
    The OP’s attitude would be a complete and utter turn off to me. I’m not particularly interested in chilvalrous behavior. I’m not opposed to gender roles in a general way but I’m extremely turned off by the whole idea of having to follow a script. A script that I don’t know and haven’t been raised with anyways.

    I’ve been on a few great dates with this woman. Because I’m absent minded, I often forget to open the door because she gets to the door first, since she walks more briskly than I do. No big deal! We laugh about it! She has mostly been paying for her own drinks. No big deal. She insisted and I let her pay for her drinks and so far it doesn’t look like I failed any test. Things are going very well indeed. She looks like the kind of woman who would rather pay her own way. That’s not a problem for me and I have no intention of making a big deal out of it.

  8. 38
    Norman Kaden

    Personally if you rang him and told him the truth about not feeling comfortable drive in a part of the town that your not used to I’m sure that he wouldn’t mind picking you up.   If he does mind then perhaps he’s not the gentleman you thought he was. If you had been to the place 2 or 3 times that would be different but as this is your first time there I think that it’s absolutely reasonable to expect him to drive you.  Besides if he truly likes you he won’t mind. 

  9. 39
    SparklingEmerald

    Gen’l Comment on this topic (and I know the OP has already moved on and for her this is moot)
    But speaking as someone who is  BOTH a nervous Nellie about driving and was a nervous Nellie about having a stranger pick me the first few times during the get to know each other phase, this is how I’ve navigated the situation.
    When it comes to driving I don’t like, driving at night, driving in a strange part of town, hunting for parking a spot, then having to walk 6 blocks to my destination.  
    Google maps are your friend !  After getting horribly lost on a first meet and greet at a very nice restaurant in the middle of nowhere, (where the date was very uncomfortable, awkward, no chemistry on my part, ) I have learned to limit those initial meet and greets to familiar areas, with onsite parking. 
    In my old age, unfortunately, places I’m willing to drive is getting narrower and narrower.  I wish it wasn’t true, and I do “force” myself to sometimes drive out of my comfort zone so I don’t end up becoming a hermit by virtue of not wanted to drive more that a block from home, in broad daylight, perfect weather.
    As a result, there are now some place I just don’t drive, PERIOD.  Not for a date, not for a MEETUP, not for an audition, not for a special event that looks interesting to me.  I even missed one of my son’s concerts, because the area he was performing was HORRIBLE traffic-wise, parking-wise, distance-wise, time of night-wise etc.  He was very understanding about it.
    So, after a few late nights of getting lost after going way out of my neighborhood into unfamiliar territory at night (whether it be for a meet up, audition, or intial meet and greet) I have started looking up EVERY new place I drive on GOOGLE MAPS.  Most addresses have a photographic view of the street available.  You can assess the surrounding street area and see if there is ample parking.  Usually the establishment has a website and sometimes they describe the parking situation.
    So, before I met my BF, I would limit those first and meet and greets to familiar territory during daylight or early evening hours, and research the parking and directions in advance, check the traffic report before going.
     
    In the OP’s case, perhaps after researching the place, if I thought it was daytime doable for me but not night time and say something like “I’d love to try this restaurant, but since I’m not familiar with neighborhood and my night time vision isn’t great, perhaps we can meet there for lunch instead.”
     
    If the parking is an issue, ASK him where is the best place to park.  (Men love to feel needed, maybe he doesn’t need to come drive all the way out to pick you up, but he’d be glad to advise you on the free-after 6PM parking garage and meet you there and walk with you to your destination)
    Communicate your specific concerns about the drive, location, parking, etc. and negotiate a solution.  It doesn’t HAVE to be the guy driving 2 hours round trip for a dinner date.
    Luckily, my sweetie and I complement each other very well.  He absolutely loves to drive, prefers road trips to flying (will only fly if there are time constraints to consider) and has turned me down several times when I have offered to meet him somewhere, or make the drive out to his place for our weekends together.  He won’t hear of it.
    In fact, I had to drive to his part of town for an errand straight after work, so he made dinner for me at his place.  I told him I had to get gas on the way home, and asked him for the nearest gas station, he drew me a map to the nearest station, and showed me how I could get in and out of the gas station  and home with nothing but right turns (I avoid left turns when driving also, silly, I know, but it’s just how I am)  When I got home, there was an e-mail from him waiting for me making sure I got home safely.
    He knows about my silly driving phobias and he never makes me feel stupid, spoiled, or incompetent about it.  Since he LOVES to drive (he has told me he does several times) I guess my weakness and his strength complement each other very well in this case.
     

  10. 40
    Irish Gal

    I’m with those who don’t think this is princessy-behavior. That early in a budding relationship is when men are supposed to be in  high courting mode, on their best behavior. They’re supposed to treat you like YOU are the prize, which you are. Women DO have other options – if a man doesn’t show that he’s trying to be considerate and impress me, I can stay home alone and have a better time, go out with someone else, or friends.

    My current boyfriend of 6+ months still does everything he can to make my  life easier, to be thoughtful and considerate. He insists on picking me up for dates, opening car /house doors etc. He makes himself useful, still won’t let me pay for much of anything (maybe a lunch or cocktails here and there)  even if I insist (he knows I have a kid in college and am a young widow). We were invited to a plush Long Island wedding back in January, and he insisted on providing funds to purchase an appropriate dress (which was outside my budget).  He entertains me well an often with theater or concert or sporting event tickets. He has the means to be generous with his money and his time, and I’m grateful for his kindnesses and consideration. My daughter refers to it as ‘it’s ok to BE spoiled, just don’t GET spoiled’. I think it’s an important distinction.

    I reciprocate in ways that I can / can afford. And it’s good enough for him. He wants to be with me and as he explains it, enjoy my company. He doesn’t care what I do in return. For him me continuing to pick up the phone when he calls, or to agree to accompany him places, makes him happy. And he makes me really happy!

     

  11. 41
    Jacinth

    Yes RJ those women do exist.I’ve dated 5 men in the last 8 years and have never slept with any of them.I make my stance known early in our conversation even before the first date. And two lasted well into two years.

    How can women be sleeping with everyman they date?

  12. 42
    QB

    Thanks Kate for the update. I wish you better luck next time! As someone has already mentioned, I think the bigger problem here is that Kate and Chris met only three times in a month. That definitely doesn’t cut it for me. In my case, we have gone out 6 times in three weeks… which averages to twice a week. I don’t think I can build anything meaningful with someone I only see every ten days. I do have a similar problem as Kate did though although neither the guy nor I have a car as we live in a city where everything is so localized – having a car is more of a status thing, or if you have children etc.

     

    Anyway, on our sixth date, we suggested a restaurant in our area (we work in the same area) and he asked me where I would like to meet. I suggested a spot in between us then we could walk there together. He then counter-suggested another spot that is slightly closer to his office and is literally two minutes’ walk from the spot I suggested earlier! So as you can imagine I got really annoyed. You asked me where to meet and when I made the suggestion (and not even an unreasonable one tbh), you were too lazy to walk two minutes to meet me? WTF? I told him not that I minded but he did ask me where to meet. In the end he agreed to meet me at the spot I initially suggested.

     

    Normally I would just call it quits as I really cannot be bothered dating someone who is too lazy to even walk two minutes to meet me. But then my friend asked me to look at the bigger picture here — this guy has done everything right for the past five dates: he always followed up and asked to see me again right after every date, and he took me to Michelin-starred restaurants and paid for everything. So my friend said I should give him a chance — or mulligan in the EMK speak.

     

    I will say, if this particular behavior persists I wouldn’t be able to tolerate it as it indicates general laziness on his part. But for now, I’m letting this one slide and chalk it up to him being clueless.

    1. 42.1
      Adrian

      Hi QB,

      Please read this whole thing before getting angry or thinking I am trying to attack you or your character.

      Do you receive Evan’s newsletters via email?

      He literally just spoke on this scenario you are talking about. It was titled “If You Want to Date a Confident Leader, You Have to Let Him Lead”

       

      Here is a quote from itWhat nice guys don’t realize is that you’re not looking for a man to cater to your whims. 

      You’re looking for a man to lead, to make sound decisions, to drive the car while you ride shotgun. Yet the guys who do that – the leaders – are often the most arrogant, most difficult, most combustible ones around. Right? How do you find a guy who puts you first, but ALSO can take the lead?Well, if it’s not by trying to change the alpha male, what do you have left?The nice guy. But there’s a problem. And, believe it or not, you may be at the root of it. You want the nice guy to lead, but you refuse to let him do it. Before you get angry, think about it for a second. He suggests a bar. You tell him you’d prefer one in a different part of town.He suggests a movie. You tell him that you weren’t crazy about the reviews.He suggests a weekend trip. You tell him you had another destination in mind.He suggests a new position in the bedroom. You say you don’t do that. Your intentions are pure – you want what you want – but the message that you’re sending to him is unmistakable: You can be a leader and make decisions, as long as I have final approvalAnd if the nice guy wants to please you, why should he even bother to make any decision that you’re just going to overrule anyway? He might as well ask you that awful question: “What do YOU want to do?” Hey, at least he knows you’re not going to shoot down your own idea. 

      ….

      QB to me it doesn’t sound like the guy was being lazy, it sounds like he asked for your opinion, then countered with another suggestion for something he thought was better, yet for some reason this made YOU angry. He honored your suggestion by making his counter offer a place that is still close to your original suggestion (2 minutes away).

      My thinking is that he wanted a spot that he thought would be better to impress you or that would make you happier since he is in the process of courting/trying to win you; but you took it as him just wanting to be 2 minutes closer to his job.

      Of course I don’t know the full story and there may be more to it to justify why you got so upset at his suggestion; my answer is only based off what you wrote.

      However, based off of what you wrote, I disagree with your friend. I think you should dump the guy, because if you got upset over something so trivial as a two minute walking distance and YOU also think NOT dumping a guy over that small matter is a mulligan, and you should be praised for it…

      Then you two are not compatible. I’m trying to say this as nicely as possible since I don’t know you and you may be the world sweetest woman, but he would be better off with someone who doesn’t want to end a relationship over small things, a woman who sees his efforts without needing an outsider (your friend) to show it to her and you would be better off with someone who will obediently do as you say.

      He doesn’t have to be a push over, but it sounds like it would be best if the nice guy with balls for you has a little more nice and a little less balls.

      1. 42.1.1
        QB

        Thanks for your input Adrian. I do not think it is trivial at all though. How would you feel if every time your gf asks you what you feel like for dinner and you say steak only to have her suggest “how about sushi?” — This is what I was having a problem with. This might not be a dealbreaker, but it sure is annoying and I just think it’s a bit too early on in a relationship for someone to show traits like this. The only explanation I have is that according to him, he has never been in a relationship before (he is in his mid-30s) so he can be a bit clueless.

         

        Anyway. Just wanted to follow up on my date: he asked me out again that night before the date was over and I accepted. We were supposed to meet yesterday and just a few hours before we were supposed to meet, he texted me and said he THINKS he MIGHT be too tired to meet after his lunch with friends and wants to reschedule. To me, I think he is a grown man and I expect him (or any grown person) to arrange his time in a manner that does not interrupt his original plans. I would be more understanding if something important came up or if he fell sick or something, but “thinks” he “might” be too tired over something like Sunday lunch with friends does not fall into that category. He did try to reschedule right away and I told him I might be able to meet next week… if he follows up with plans and all then we’ll see how it goes I guess. But after the way he canceled on me, my interest is seriously dampened.

        1. Adrian

          Hi QB,

          Thanks for the update. What I and Evan was speaking of is a man who is trying but he is dating a woman who says she wants him to but doesn’t allow him to.

          If your guy is doing this on a regular bases, then it sound like he is a selfish person. The example of him cancelling your date last minute proves it. He is either selfish or he is not really excited about the thought of dating you a.k.a “he is not really into you.”

          My personal suggestion is for you to dump him and find someone better. By giving him another chance, you are setting up the dynamic for him to feel doing things like this is acceptable while with you.

  13. 43
    Anon

    I don’t know man. Haha. It really depends on how you want to be treated in the looooong run. If you have a problem with him not picking you up and it’s the fourth date… even if he does pick you up after you explain your discomfort with it, eventually he’s not gonna want to pick you up for a date anymore. So maybe this particular guy isn’t for you. There will be the non-doormat guy out there that wants to pick you just because he feels that is the way he wants to show you he really cares about you. Just like some girls will feel “weak” or “smothered” if the guy always wants to pick them up, some guys don’t feel inclined to pick the girl up by the time the fourth date rolls around. It’s up to you to pick what you like!

    My boyfriend of 1 year and three months picks me up always, even if it’s just to go back to hang out at his place, but that wasn’t because I asked or because I wanted it… he just does it. I never thought this was a thing but now that it is one for me it’s great. It’s really not that much trouble to drive over to the guy but the effort is great.

    Guys – think of it this way – when you do something that pisses your girl off, but she doesn’t mention it to you, she just rants to her girl friends about it and lets it go and – again – doesn’t mention it to you… the reason she doesn’t is because losing the little things you do for her as well as the bigger things isn’t worth  it. But you have to make yourself worth overlooking the things that piss her off. If every other relationship is gonna follow the whole “I pay this meal, you pay the next. You drive here, I drive there” then why not make yourself stand out? A girl is much more likely to overlook issues here and there if you are better than most guys! And I’m not saying girls are supposed to kick back and let you spoil them without doing anything in return – not that guys should expect it but be equally as appreciative as the girl should be when the courtesy is returned. There are ways a woman can spoil a man more than other women do. Sex is great. But lets be honest, some women don’t do as much as others in bed. Soo while it’s amazing to have a man be a generous lover in bed, why not be the same and more? Not necessarily in the typical, “Look honey I made breakfast in bed and did all your laundry!” but surprising him with random meals when he’s not asking for it or asking about his favorite games or sport teams and actually investing time into actually learning his hobbies. You might be surprised and actually really be into sports or video games or golf or whatever!

    This turned out to be a bigger post than I expected but eh, take it as you will. Bye.

  14. 44
    Amber

    I never get in a stranger’s car….I always drive myself and meet out ..Then I can leave when I want and do what I want…Men start take advantage when you drive to them especially when their place is only place be alone they expect you to go there all time…Then they think you don’t care when your too tired to drive… That’s why I have 10 boyfriend’s when one acts up I go out with the next….whoever goes out of his way more to see me I go with him…I don’t have time to drive 30 min to hour I’m busy….If he can’t come my way…oh well someone else will…..There are plenty of fish in the Sea….=)

  15. 45
    ICantEvenFindTheBox

    Not to come of as being judgemental, but your being selfish. Think about it: if your date drove you to the location, it would mean that they would have to be tee total for the whole time, during the date. Most people need a bit of a drink to relax, but the amount differs from person to person. Sometimes (read most times) people need more than what is considered illegal to drive, to relax. Next time, catch a cab. Wow, I wrote that before looking at the comments people had already made. People are funny, such odd dating ideas. I like the idea that women should be treated like gold, because of no other reason than they are women. I disagree. I would rather treat a woman like a human being than a piece of metal that only has value due to its rarity. However just looking at what people say and how they say it gives incredible insight into how they view the world. For example, the notion that women should be treated as gold because they are women, expresses a traditionalistic approach to relationships. The man does blue jobs, the woman does pink jobs. Most women seem to adhere to the traditional idea of gender roles in a relationship, but paradoxically eschew the traditional roles. For example, women are not confined to the kitchen, but men should be confined to the role of protector in the relationship. Women should be free to freely express their opinion on any matter, men should pick up the tab when taking a date out. Women should be free to make their own decisions on any matter including when they should and shouldn’t take the lead, men should take the lead in situations. Women are just as capable as men at making choices, men should choose where they go on a date. It’s similar to those old fashioned movies where the man is driving the car and the woman is happy to go along with it until she doesn’t like the man driving, to which she responds by jumping out of the car. Holy bananas, that was the perfect metaphor for dating.

  16. 46
    LShaw

    What is the world coming to? Call me old-fashioned, but I expect my daughters’ dates to pick them up.  (Unless it’s a date resulting from a on-line meeting, and in that case, safety prevails!).  Basically, I am seeing here that as the decades progress, men have less and less respect for women.   If you do the asking, you should be prepared and willing to provide transportation out of courtesy, or don’t ask. If she wants to help and make your life easier, then let her offer, AFTER you have offered first.   Sure she is capable of operating a car, but what I hear is:

    1.  You’re not worth any extra EFFORT.  I am not willing to go out of my way to win you .

    2.  I know it will be late and dark when the date concludes, but your safety is not my concern.

    3.  I am getting bored and losing interest in you

    It irks me immensely when a guy asks my daughters to drive 30 minutes or more to meet them for a dinner date.  If they are an exclusive couple, I can see it once in a while. But I have been known to ask my daughter to text me when she gets back home from these type dates  to let me know she made it safely, and her date doesn’t even follow up with her that evening to ensure her safety.  Gosh, when their grandmother leaves our house at dark, we always have her call us to make sure she arrived home safely. Folks, there  are predators lurking at night. And guess what, my daughters usually lose interest fast in a guy that does not make them feel special when they are attempting to win their affections. And to irk me further, one daughter has an extremely tiring and stressful job.  By Fridays, she is wiped out.  If you can’t pick her up, don’t ask.

    Signed.  Mad Mom

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