Why Certain Men Will Never Do Well With Women – And What You Can Learn From Them

I’ve got a great story that I want to share with you today.

Even though I bill myself as a dating coach for “smart, strong, successful women”, I still maintain a few male clients.

I enjoy working with guys because, when they’re motivated, they’re hardworking and highly coachable. Plus, the men who gravitate towards me are usually “nice guys” who just need a little bit of an edge to succeed wildly with women.

In other words, most of my men are the one you should be dating in real life – the kind that are open to learning and growth and are willing to spend thousands of dollars to learn how to better connect with women.

The guy who called me today is completely different – and I had such an interesting phone call with him that I wanted to share it with you.

“James” tells me that he’s 30 years old, living in Seattle, working in IT. He sounds like a bright guy. A little angry, perhaps, but I’m used to getting clients who aren’t too happy with the fact that they’re reaching out to a dating coach.

James tells me that after focusing on his career for most of his 20’s, he’s been dating intently for the past year.

And it’s been TERRIBLE.

There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

It seems that whenever he goes out with women, they’re all so SHALLOW.

They never want to TAKE THE TIME to get to know him as a human being.

They’re all looking for magical CHEMISTRY and trying to figure out within 5 minutes whether he’s their SOULMATE.

The women he wants IGNORE him online, DON’T RETURN his calls after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT man.

As a result, James HATES dating.

Now, between you and me, it doesn’t take a dating coach to diagnose what ails James. There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

Still, I sympathized with James on the phone. After all, this IS his dating experience. It’s real, not imagined. And it’s normal to feel frustration when you can’t solve a problem.

I asked James what he thought that I could do for him. He mumbled something about helping him meet women who were different than the women he’s been dating.

I couldn’t hold back any longer.

“I hate to tell you, my friend, but the problem isn’t with all the women in Seattle. And dating coaching isn’t telling you where the “quality” women hang out. After 12 weeks of coaching with me, you know who’s going to be the same? Women in Seattle. As such, the ONLY thing we can do is change how YOU’RE approaching dating. Does that make sense?”

James paused for a second, gritted his teeth, and said, “I don’t want to change very much. The problem isn’t with me – it’s with THEM. WOMEN are the problem. I’m asking you to help me find better ones. Are you telling me you can’t do that?”

“What I’m telling you, James, is that you’re the common denominator in your life. And, logically, since I can’t change Seattle, or women, or Match.com, or anything else, the greatest shift is going to come in how you approach women, how you understand women, how you flirt with women, how you connect with women. But it’s about YOU learning, and YOU changing. That’s what yields the best, most long-lasting results.”

I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

James and I aren’t going to be working together. And that’s fine by me. I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

And the not-so-subtle reason I shared this story with you is to ask you to reflect on whether you have anything in common with James.

Do you think dating is TERRIBLE?

Are you frustrated that men don’t take the time to get to know you?

Do you get bent out of shape when men IGNORE you online, DON’T FOLLOW UP after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT woman?

Do you think that, if only MEN changed, you’d be in a happy relationship by now?

If so, I hate to tell you, YOU are the one who needs to adjust. Just like James.

You’re not “wrong” that men could improve in 100 different ways. You’re mistaken in thinking that men are going to improve. Your job isn’t to CHANGE men.

It’s to become the kind of woman who UNDERSTANDS men, ATTRACTS men, KEEPS men happy, and CHOOSES good men. This is the key to a successful relationship.

And no, it’s no different than how James needs to learn to attract, understand, and connect with women in order to keep them happy. Until he does, all he’s going to do is complain about YOU, and how unfair you are to him.

In reading this blog, subscribing to my newsletter and http://www.evanmarckatz.com/coaching/, you have a chance to learn something that will change your life.

The question isn’t whether this information can make a difference.

The question is whether you are going to be like James and continue to blame the opposite sex for everything.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Helen

    Evan, how about a corny analogy here:
     
    It sounds like enrolling in dating coaching is a lot like learning to play an instrument. And it SHOULD be that way. You find someone who is a good teacher (good coach) and learn techniques to make you a better musician. If it’s playing scales, learning tricks to speed-read music, etc., you do it and trust that it will make you more skilled.
     
    The difference between music lessons and dating lessons seems to be that people take the latter too personally, like this guy James. “What? There’s something wrong with me?” And it shouldn’t be that way. It’s not something wrong with you. You don’t think there’s something wrong with you if you don’t know how to play the Mozart Clarinet Concerto right off the bat. And so it should be with learning how to be effective in relationships.
     
    Maybe part of the problem is not just that people take it very personally, but they also hear a lot of sketchy advice along the way because everyone thinks they’re experts at relationships – heck, even if they’ve never been in one. So those who seek advice don’t know whom to trust. It’s different with music. No one would attempt to be a clarinet teacher if they couldn’t play clarinet themselves.
     
    Evan, I can understand why every once in a while you may feel as though you’re swimming against the current. Taking advice too personally and a history of hearing both good and bad advice may be two reasons.

  2. 2
    Smash

    Haha! Women in Seattle ARE terrible. I’ve lived here 16 years and that’s not changing. What James needs to do is what I did: play the Seattle game on ITS turf. He needs to get involved in the outdoors scene (me: skiing and mountain biking). Sadly, these are largely male-dominated pursuits. But in the end, he’ll feel better about himself, prioritize his needs instead of prostrating himself in front of a very fickle and dull Seattle dating scene, and make a ton of new friends who are active and fun…and know women who are active and fun.

    I go on 3-4 dates a week with women I meet all over town. Granted, these women are awful (any combination of boring, judgmental, too mannish, drink too much, don’t drink at all, not very well read, rude, late, etc.) But I never give up and I go into each date hoping to be surprised.

  3. 3
    Tara

    dunno,  but, although I’m not too enamored with the pickins where I live either, I reluctantly have to admit to myself, “Wherever you go, there you are.”  and I think that, in a nutshell, is what Evan is saying in this post.
    It’s a huge waste of energy to try and put a whole demographic into a box.  The best approach I have found is to look at each date, no matter who it is, or how long it’s going on, as another opportunity to learn more about myself and better ways of relating.
    Seems to me that lots of people are looking for some kind of magic pill, but the truth is that once you even get into the relationship, there are always going to be conflicts, and we never stop learning and growing.
    I think that’s exciting!
    The journey and the destination are one and the same!
     

  4. 4
    Detha

    James is the commom denominator in all of this. He needs to take some responsiblity for his part in his past, failed relationships. Sadly, I have met too many men like James in my life, one not too long ago.

    Nothing turns me off more, than a man who group all women together and don’t appreciate me as an indivdual.

    1. 4.1
      Becci

      This comment is absolutely perfect. These guys are sort of complaining about all women in general, stereotyping them, and that’s why I personally would act the way they’re moaning about. Because of he way they act.

      1. 4.1.1
        kpak76

        Except you woll never know who James or anyone of these guys are when you meet them. When you do act like that, you only reinforce his thinking. Isn’t it just like a woman to lay the blame on the man these days anyways? This is why most of are seeing how suoerficial and entitled american woman are these days. Its impossibke to have an adult relationship with the women nowadays because most of you are children who never grow up. Anyways the men aren’t good enough for you ladies anyways. Enjoy your later years with the armada of cats you will hoard.

        1. Dililah

          “Anyways the men aren’t good enough for you ladies anyways.”

          Yup, you’re too mature for us. Can’t argue with that grown-up thinking.

  5. 5
    Joe

    Detha: technically, James has no failed relationships, unless you call a few (bad) dates a relationship.

  6. 6
    Ruby

    Smash #2

    <<Women in Seattle ARE terrible.>> <<I go on 3-4 dates a week with women I meet all over town. Granted, these women are awful (any combination of boring, judgmental, too mannish, drink too much, don’t drink at all, not very well read, rude, late, etc.) >>

    Why are you dating them then? 3-4 dates a week? Is that just about volume? Yes, some people are jerks, and some are nice enough, but we just don’t click with them. If you think a woman is too “mannish” why date her? Is it really that awful if someone doesn’t drink? Surely it can’t be that you know so little about every woman you date that each one turns out to be – surprise – an “awful”, “terrible” human being? 

  7. 7
    Goldie

    I’ve been fighting the temptation all day to forward comment #2 to all my Seattle girlfriends… somehow I doubt that every woman in a large West Coast city is “any combination of boring, judgmental, too mannish, drink too much, don’t drink at all, not very well read, rude, late, etc.”
     
    Don’t get me wrong, I live and date in a Midwestern city where most guys haven’t seen a book since high school… key word, though, is “most” guys, not all. After I moved to a different site, updated my profile, opened up to meeting guys who live 40+ miles from me, shorter guys, slightly older guys etc… fun, energetic, intellectuals suddenly came out of the woodwork :)

  8. 8
    Katarina Phang

    Goldie, I was told by a Seattle man I dated for 8 months that Seattle guys have turned into “metrosexual liberals.”  They have no balls, wishy-washy and can’t close the deal with women (they don’t pursue or do the “man” stuff anymore).  So I guess, I’m not sure about the causality though, Seattle woman becomes more mannish now to compensate this lack of drive of Seattle men.  

    And actually a friend on my FB, a Seattle woman, confirms this and complains about this also. 

    1. 8.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      This shouldn’t have turned into a debate about the merits of Seattle. The god’s honest truth is that I changed the city to protect the identity of “James”. Which just reinforces the point that it’s not the city, it’s the individual who is at the root cause of the issue.

      1. 8.1.1
        Taylor

        I also live in Seattle though, and I can also attest to women being pretty hard to please here. And please dont assume lack of results is due to a lack of efforts. 

      2. 8.1.2
        kpak76

        Evan you really are sora clueless when it comes to the dating scene. I understand your audience is mostly woman but man do you have to so obviously cater to their needs? How about just plain truth as you see it? And if this is how you see it, then the power of observation isn’t strong at all with you.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          If you read my post and you came away with the idea that I was the clueless one here – just for making the observation that sad guys who bitch about women are not going to do well with women – well, then you can return to a blog frequented by similar sad guys.

        2. kpak76

          Wasn’t just that reply though. Your saying that since “james” is the common denominator. He is most likely the problem. How many single men have you polled and asked them why they are single? A vast majority sees how women today are and want nothing more to do with them. They are entitled, narcasstic, and only are looking for a man to serve their needs. They were never taught how to be givers before being a taker. Why do you think so many men say dating seems like a job interview these days? Lets also just ignore the fact (yes it is fact) that most American women today are obese. Contrary to feminist thinking, obese is not sexy. I know very few men who will choose the obese ladies over slim healthy looking women.

          Sure men has their own problems, but that comes a lot due to the downfall of “patriarchy”. Men just dont know how to act like men anymore.

          If you truly want to help your clients find a soulmate, well teach them how to be attractive and desireable to the primal instincts that most men have. You have it, deep down you too know what it is men want. The self serving, entitled, what can you do for me, is not the lady we are seeking.

        3. kpak76

          Evan you are just one man giving women all sorts of advice with what men want. Your missing the point that there are a large and growing amount of men who think exactly like “james” and myself. Women have told us so long that they dont need us and now we are finally listening. This really is a huge social problem that so many around seem to be ignoring. Maybe you should invite a fesh point of view. I know seceral good candidates who can do thism Janet Bloomfield and Karen Straughen are both excellent choices. The man known as “sandman” in MGTOW circles is another. Maybe you should approach one of them for a fresh perspective.

        4. Evan Marc Katz

          Kpak, if you scour the 8 years of archives, I would think you would probably agree with 95% of what I wrote about “what men want”.

          The thing that YOU don’t get is that we’re talking about a Venn Diagram here.

          There’s what men want. There’s what women want. The point where those two circles overlap is where happy relationships lie.

          You are very attuned to what men want, but either tone-deaf, indifferent, or incapable of giving women what THEY want.

          But your focus is not on that – it’s on blaming women for their failure to give you what YOU want.

          So while I could probably endorse what you want from women – to feel accepted, appreciated and admired – you need to understand that women don’t like weak men who have no confidence, angry men who blame women for the ills of the world, cheap men who keep score, selfish men who are only focused on their needs, insecure men who feel “less than” around other men, and men who think that the answer to being successful with women is to treat them poorly. In my limited experience, the MGOTWs of the world personify all of those qualities. THAT’s why you don’t do well with women; it’s not “women” as a whole.

        5. kpak76

          Evan first off you have no idea how successful i am with women. You have no idea what type of man i am also. I am not cheap, i dont treat women poorly, i dont consider myself selfish. I also have plenty of dating opportunities now.

          I will admit that i exuded many of the characteristic you said because i was frustrated with dating. I cant count how many times I’ve been “friend zoned”, or rejected in my 20’s. However since i realized the woman im looking for most likely doesn’t exist anymore, ive learned to adapt. You see im that “nice guy” who said fuck it and just did what i want. In my 20’s i thought very much like you. I’ve never been happier since i made my realization. Women no longer frustrate me because i don’t have the any expectations from them except the bedroom. I know in the end i will probably live my life alone but as a man i xan vope and thrive with it. Like you said, men deal with solitude better than woman.

          So my choice to go MGTOW has beenthe best decision i made for my lifem a stark number or men are making this choice. As of 2012 25% of men 35 and under were never married. That number continues to rise.

          Evan get ready, buisness is about to boom for you in the next few years. While i don’t agree with many of your articles (yes this isn’t the first one ive disagreed with). I respect how you set yourself up to take advantage of the enormous wave of single ladies who are hitting their 40’s and is still looking for that “special” someone. I just wish you would tell them the truth and not feminist lies and propoganda.

        6. Evan Marc Katz

          You couldn’t have written a better reply to reveal your blind spots, Kpak.

          You think that you’ve got it all figured out with your red pill…but you don’t. Here’s how I know that.

          You said you thought like me in your 20’s. Wrong. See, I always loved women. I may have been frustrated and single and went on a few hundred bad dates, but I never made such broad sweeping generalizations that denigrated an entire gender like you do.

          You had a realization that removes expectations from women except outside the bedroom. You know what that leaves you, doesn’t it? Women as nothing more than sexual objects instead of cool, fun, supportive, loving partners. But yeah, you got it all figured out.

          You know you’ll probably be alone and you’re cool with it because you’re a guy who can separate sex from love. Well, guess what: the best predictor of one’s happiness is a happy marriage. Longer lives, better health, less stress, fun, sex, companionship, family, everything. By “going your own way,” instead of learning to be a better man and choose better women, you’re opting out of all of that.

          I didn’t get into this business as a means of following a trend. From 2003-2009, I was just a dating coach, open to working with women and men. But you know what? 80% of my clients were women. Why? Because they actually care to UNDERSTAND men. So why would I provide a service to a gender that was largely unable to look in the mirror or take responsibility for its flaws? Guys don’t want to understand women – they just say things like “How can I get laid” and “Why does she want to discuss our relationship?” This is why there are no relationship coaches for men; they would rather keep doing things wrong, but do it THEIR way.

          And there you have it, Kpak. You’re doing it wrong, but you’re doing it YOUR way. Congratulations on your empty sex and your vitriol for women. I’m going to go into the kitchen and kiss my wife and kids.

      3. 8.1.3
        Stizzy

        Going into the kitchen and kissing your wife is a super beta move. You need to alpha up on her or else she is going to treat you like a Herb and start banging Sancho while you are off making a living and providing for her.

        You need to think about these things! Your wife already probably thinks you are kind of funny because you are always talking about all of this love and feelings junk. Real men don’t give a crap about love and feelings, they just want a BJ and a cold beer.

        You need to make sure your house is in order bro! Man up!

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          Thank you for proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that no woman with any self-esteem would want you, and that you’d be a crappy husband.

          Real men are ones who treat their wives well, are loyal, and give as much as they get, thus ensuring a happy marriage.

          Your model is doomed for failure, because one person (your wife) will always feel unappreciated.

          Leave the relationship advice to me and go pound your chest on a MGOTW blog.

        2. JennLee

          I think this guy has never had a real relationship. Not one that lasted beyond a few dates. He has bought into the idea that the only way to keep a woman is to treat her like dirt. That is laughable. When you open the news paper and see those anniversary announcements, you can believe that all of them are men and women who treated their spouse with love, kindness, patience, and respect. Both also had to sacrifice to make this happen. But I believe that for them, it didn’t feel like a sacrifice. Maybe the man used to run with his buddies nearly every day. Well, you can’t have that and be married to. No woman is going to sit at home alone, making you sammiches. She may do it for a little while, but when she realizes that you just prefer the company of your friends, she is going to find a man who prefers her company. Don’t be mad when that happens, because it is your own crappy attitude that will cause it to happen.

          Learn to strike the proper balance. If you have plans to spend some time with friends, and she makes a fuss that you have to mow the lawn first, you have three options, and only one is correct.

          First, don’t get nasty and tell her, “Look, B___, I will get to it when I feel like it.” To harsh to be proper dialogue with somebody you are supposed to love.

          Don’t be a wimp, and say, “Gee, OK, Honey, I will get right on that for you.” Too wishy-washy. No spine involved.

          The power play is to say something like, “Look Honey, you are right, the yard needs mowed, and I see that. I will get to it in a day or tow, but right now, I have plans to hang out with my friends. Don’t worry, I’m not blowing you off, I will get to it as soon as I can. Just not right this moment.”

          This is the best of both worlds. You show her in a loving way that you acknowledge her concern, and that this is important to you, but it also shows that you have a spine, and she does not run you, like a servant, or child. I am not saying you have to put her off every time she wants something. That would get old. But it is not a bad thing for her to see you stick up for yourself in a gentle way, occasionally, especially when appropriate. It is actually very attractive, and makes her feel safe with you. You are hitting on all cylinders with her by being strong, confident, gentle and kind, all at the same time. You don’t have to be perfect at this, you just have to try.

          What you PUA’s don’t seem to understand is that it is possible to fool us for a short time. Yes, sometimes we fall for the PUA BS, but eventually, we see it for what it is, and we leave. Eventually we see the cold, callous behavior as just that. Not strong. Just cold and callous. Selfish. Then we leave.

        3. Clare

          Yip, guessing you’ve never had a relationship that lasted beyond a handful of dates or a few weeks. Guessing you are the kind of prince who likes to get a girl into bed and then never call her again.

          That’s fine. Ride the wave as long as you can. At a certain point however it just looks sad and pathetic, especially when you’re 65, alone and still trying to pull this crap. Shame. I just feel really sorry for you.

        4. Not Jerry

          Stizzy,

          hahaha

          You said it!

          You will never have a wife, so no worries about that, right Evan?

    2. 8.2
      kpak76

      Lol battle of the sexes at its best. Who will lose? The next generation.

      1. 8.2.1
        kpak76

        Yes evan u was EXACTLY like you. I too thought women were always special and that i had to my best to impress them. Why? Because i too bought the feminist lies, hook line and sinker. I thought the way to win a girls heart was to impress them by doing everything i could for them. Basically i was a doormat for women when i was younger.

        I know exactly what my choices has made me. A male equivalent to a slut. But since i actually have money now, women dont seem to care so forgive me for taking advantage. But really this isn’t about my personal experiences now is it.

        All that is a myth. Your quoting studies from our grandparent age and thinking it applies today it doesn’t. Truth is we dont know because the mass amount of the singles generation has not hit the elderly age. But current studies suggest that marriend men are far more stressed than single men. Why? Because they married a princess who stresses them out.

        I have met very few woman who truly understands what women want. Loyalty, respect, purity, not using sex as a weapon to get what she wants, and knows how to take care of herself for her husband. You’re obviously are meeting a certain type of women in your career because they are the ones who want to do something about be uhh ng single. What you’re not exposing yourself to is the other population if women out there who aren’t like this.

        Ah yes, im getting judged by a mangina (yup judging you right back) Hope your wife doesn’t take you to the cleaners like most woman will nowadays. Even with your jaded view and hate you display for things you dont understand, i would hate for tou to go throughthat nightmare. Heres to hoping you are among the 40%.

      2. 8.2.2
        kpak76

        I habe yet to see you poke any holes in my argument.

    3. 8.3
      Raja

      Katrina, you say that men aren’t mannish anymore, and that men don’t peruse anymore than what they use to. So, are you saying that there is a lack of real men? I think you need self reflection. I would only assume that a woman with as shallow thinking as yourself would have a difficult time finding a really good guy. There are just about as many good and real women out in the dating scene as there are real men. Women have a sense of self entitlement that goes far beyond their ego. Not all women are like this, but most are. This is why men in general have such difficult times in finding good women, because most of the women who are relationship worthy are never single, and that’s unfortunate for men. Men shouldn’t be portrayed as entertainers who has the sole duty of making a women happy at any cost, while the woman only provides sex as collateral – why can’t women think outside their self entitles ego and pursue a man if she likes him? Or why can’t most women do what they can do to please a man? – apart from giving him sex once a month? Good men want a woman who can make a man feel special – but with feminism and self entitlement issues woman have, there will never be any real supply of good women. No decent guy in his right mind would want to be with shallow women. There are some women here who completely put the blame on men, and that the fact that some men who can’t find relationships with a women is because of them. Is it possible that the problem could be that a lot of women who are single and in the dating game, are just out right shallow, fickle, liars and complete users, and or gold diggers? Yes men can be the same as well, but more women have these bad qualities than do men. I don’t hear any women admitting that these are major problems that they have when it comes to dating, on the contrary, they just blame men to cover the fact that most of of these women are just outright arseholes – the only difference is that some are nicer than others. I think self reflection needs to happen on both sides, but more so for women. SO STOP BLAMING THE GOOD GUYS! IT”S HALF A WOMAN”S FAULT IF SHE BRUSHES ONE OFF!!

    4. 8.4
      Dandy

      God forbid you may have to do something Katarina. God forbid you may have to step up to the plate and step outside of gender roles and societal norms.

  9. 9
    Christina

    I think it’s always easier to blame the nebulous “them” than engage in any real self-analysis or improvement. Based on my experience and that of others I’ve talked to, dating is largely a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you think the Seattle dating pool stinks(btw, I have a few single girlfriends there who have similar complaints about the men), then you’re going to be looking for reasons to bolster your assumptions. If you think that there are a lot of great people out there, but you might have to date a few dozen before you find one that’s right for you, you’ll probably have an enjoyable dating experience.

    And in the end, all the complaints about the opposite sex are fruitless: you are completely powerless to change even one other person, let alone an entire population. You can however, make some adjustments to yourself that can make all the difference in your level of success.  

    1. 9.1
      Becci

      Thank you for this comment. This is perfect.

  10. 10
    KDC

    Funny how advice is always more palatable when it’s flipped to someone else’s perspective.

    On a separate note, Evan, you should check out the A&E 2004 production of Agatha Christie’s “Death on the Nile”.  I just watched it yesterday and actor JJ Feild is a dead ringer for you!

    1. 10.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      @KDC – Just looked him up. He’s got big ears and curly hair, but otherwise I’m not seeing it.

      Still, it’s better than being told I look like Jerry Seinfeld or Ben Stiller, which is what you get for being Jewish in Hollywood, I suppose… :)

  11. 11
    Helen

    Evan, you’re hilarious. 😀  I had suspected that you made up the city, but didn’t want to say anything. Seattle just got a gratuitous bashing today. (Sheesh, I always thought the people there were nice…)
     
    I think the first step in James’ case is to lose the anger and resentment. If you’re angry or resentful, that comes across so clearly when interacting with others, and it is so unattractive, even in business settings. It’s not effective telling someone he needs to stop being angry, though. This is something a person has to want to work on, on his own, through whatever means he can (meditation, counseling, practicing a more positive outlook, etc.).

  12. 12
    Saint Stephen

    I see guys who complain about not getting into relationship as those who deliberately or unintentionally limited their pool to a demographic confinement. Sometimes to achieve true state of happiness someone is bound to think outside the box- and be more open minded. Nothing guarantees that your sweet heart must be around you. your Cinderella could be in another country waiting for you (her prince charming) to come rescue her. Thank goodness we have international dating sites. Women from other countries are more realistic and will value James or other men more than those women in their demography. Is actually true that women wont change their unrealistic behavior, but you can import a woman with a realistic behavior.
    Personally i see nothing wrong with James. The problem is that nowadays women in the US need sufficient chemistry as a requisite to consider if there would be a second date.    

    1. 12.1
      Al

      “The problem is that nowadays women in the US need sufficient chemistry as a requisite to consider if there would be a second date.”

       

       

      Nope. the problem is that women are now independent enough to require EXACTLY the same thing men have always demanded of us, that there be physical attraction. That’s typically what we mean by “Chemistry.” We do also generally hope that a man will not be a misogynistic head case, will have something to add to the conversation and be polite. Honestly, there isn’t really that much difference between what men and women want out of a true “relationship.” We all want someone we find attractive, someone who we have fun with, who makes us feel special, most of us want someone who is committed to the relationship and gives as much as they take.

       

       

      We only have problems when our expectations of what kind of mate we want conflict with what kind of mate we can achieve. There are tons of people of both genders out there searching for love. The real issue for those who are stuck forever in the dating pool is that they are all looking at each other and deeming everyone they see not “good” enough.

  13. 13
    Laine

    Smash, you are the same as the guy Evan is referring to in this thread. You are “mirroring” so what you project is what is coming back to you !

    Change your thoughts and you will change your world.

  14. 14
    AnnieC

    @9  Evan … too funny!! And so telling :)

  15. 15
    Steve

    I love it!  A ton of battle-of-the-sexes content gets generated about the dating scene in Seattle and EMK reveals the OP wasn’t talking about Seattle, Evan just changed the name to protect the identity of the person writing the letter.
     
    I agree, it adds even more power to EMK’s point.   As far as dating goes people are too caught up in whining rather than doing what they *can* to deal with a less than spectacular reality to find solutions.

  16. 16
    Goldie

    @ St Stephen:
     
    “Women from other countries are more realistic and will value James or other men more than those women in their demography.”
     
    As a woman from another country, I’ve got a word of advice to you… if and when you ever talk to them, keep this thought to yourself. You’ll be glad you did.
     
    I had this phone conversation with a guy where all of a sudden he said: “I love Easter European women!” (red flag already, who chooses women based on ethnicity?) “They’re so appreciative of things they didn’t have growing up, that American women take for granted.”
     
    I instantly had that vision in my head of myself thanking him for things American women take for granted… “Wow honey, is that a hamburger? How cool! I never had that growing up! OMG, and french fries too??? I’m sooo lucky to have you” smooch smooch. Eh… no. Next. No one wants to be seen as a poor, third-world girl that can be bought with a handful of buttons and a glass necklace… just sayin.

  17. 17
    Terri

    If you do what you have always done – without making any changes – you will get the results you ALWAYS get!  I agree that you/we cannot make any changes in others – or in the environment – or the world.  We can ONLY change ourselves. 
    Or we can change our way of looking at things.  Many prominent psychologists have stated in different language that “it is not the event that disturbs you/us but our perception of the event.”
     
     

  18. 18
    Michael17

    Goldie #18, if I really wanted to sweet talk such a woman, I’d show her the pickle. Maybe then she would be relishing me dipping my fries into her ketchup. Ha.
     
    Seriously, I would feel objectified too if someone were to say how much they love Italian guys or guys of a certain height or build or whatever. Is she into me for me, or am I just interchangeable with anyone else available who meets that criteria?
     
    Overall, very good thread. If a woman wants to be successful with men, she needs to get how we work (including the ways that don’t make sense to her) and use it. Men are probably not going to change, except maybe those of us who are on this blog. Similarly, if we men want to be successful with women, we need to get how you work, including the ways that don’t make sense to us, and use it. (And this is coming from a guy who has railed about how women “don’t make sense”.) Women are probably not going to change, except maybe those of you on this blog…

  19. 19
    Nicole

    Too true @Goldie…
    I’m American but it slays me that American men have convinced themselves that there are all of these starving, poor, desperate women in other countries who will forgive all of their faults.

    So you have plane fulls of paunchy, balding postal workers who think that young hot Russian(or other non-American women) women want nothing more than to marry them, b/c they aren’t “superficial” like American women.

    I saw a part-hilarious/part-sad documentary on the mail-order bride business, set up by a guy who did scoop up some young woman desperate to find a better life for herself and her child(the body language between him and his much younger, more attractive wife said it all).  So he now takes these middle-aged, less than average Joes to Russia to these “matchmaking” parties.  The men walk into a room full of women young enough to be their daughters, marveling at how they were all there to see and marry them.  The interviewer speaks to the girls in Russian during and after the party and they were wondering why the men were so old and were disappointed that there were not any young, good-looking men in attendance.  Some were on the verge of tears.

    So there is a fantasy created by men and sold to other men that doesn’t match anyone’s reality.  They do in fact believe that they can buy a poor, third-world girl by just showing up with a handful of buttons.  Even if you believe that story, it’s really gross that you’d want to exploit it…some of those girls were cringing when those men tried to touch, hug, and kiss them.  Why would you want to be married to someone who finds you repulsive? Just b/c she’s younger and “hotter” than what you can pull here?

    1. 19.1
      jane

      I just finished a 5 year relationship with a man who is now on a large number of the websites portraying himself as 13 years younger than he really is. He says he loves to go to places he never took me, even though I asked to go to these places. On one site he even says he loves to hold hands. I often had to be insistent because he was so uncomfortable with this. He is 74 years old and I am the first person he EVER held hands with!!
      From what I have learned by trying out internet dating, it is not uncommon for men to falsify their true selves in order to get a date. My brother even did this by claiming things that were absolutely not true.
      We women are expected to not only figure out how to weed these cunningly false people out but to have “game”??
      Personally, I;m too tired for this.
      I keep myself in good shape physically because I like the attention it gets me. But after watching all the game playing the internet and the POF attitude it has added to the dating scene, I have NO desire to date.
      GOOD LUCK to those who do……….

    2. 19.2
      ennis

      Well, Ms. Nicole, you really fit the bill for an “American woman” with your comments.Since YOU and your local sisters do not want these guys, then do not date them and do not go near them ( you are SO far ABOVE them anyway). The more than 12,000 such marriages between American “misfits” and foreign brides will go on to the tune of a much lower divorce rate.Even if she is “cringing”, as you put it, she still hugs and kisses him because he is HER husband.

      1. 19.2.1
        Al

        I hardly think that Nicole is being unreasonable or saying that anyone is beneath her by decrying the rampant dishonesty some people online are guilty of.  Way to take what she said, totally distort it and use it (incorrectly) to support some wacked out concept you have of American Women. You’ll no doubt always find something to support your world view because it doesn’t require any basis in reality.

    3. 19.3
      JennLee

      Nicole, there is a lot of truth to what you said.  There are men who have no clue, who think a foreign brides is their answer.  Some are unrealistic, and think they are going to get a super model wife when they themselves are truly nasty.

       

      You also highlight a truth, that busts a myth.  The girls show up to those parties, and are not desperate to marry just any man who comes calling.  They quality women, who are selective, and know what they want.  Despite the myth that most are just looking for a green card, or looking to be rescued from poverty, and so will marry any man who comes calling, the reality is actually very different.

       

      However, there is another side to this.  There are men who can find a women of a quality they can’t find here.  Here is a bit of an extreme example that was in WeTV.  The point is that as you watch it, you will likely think that there is nothing special about the man.  In fact, as my boyfriend noted, he would likely be called creepy by women 10 to 20 years older than he now wife, who don’t even look as good as her.  So you really can’t blame him for finding what he wanted, even if he had to leave the country to find it.  I know couples similar to this, some with similar age gaps, and some where the age gap is minimal.  One thing in common however, is that the women tend to be more beautiful than the women the men had dated here, and these women have a different idea of what good man is.  They aren’t usually impressed with the hot bad boy types, and go more for the nice guy types that women here seem to find boring.  They simply value different things.  Honesty, kindness, patience, character, stability, etc… all inspire passion in these women, much more so than youth, good looks, money, bad boy image, etc…  They seem to be less impressed with false bravado that many women here seem to view as confidence, or swagger.  I asked one of them why this was the case, and she simply said that those kind of men tend to be bad husbands, more often.

       

      I knew about this video because a friend showed to me and my boyfriend and asked us what he thought.  He recently turned 50, and said he feels a lot of discrimination over his age.  Mind you he said he is not interested in a woman so young, but does prefer women a little younger than himself, up to about a dozen or so years younger.  He is also in great shape, and decent looking…better looking than the guy in this video, so he feels confident he can find a good woman this way.

      He also had a video that showed a man marrying a woman from there, who was much closer to the guy’s age, and she had one child.  He thinks he has a better chance at happiness by being pragmatic.

       

      Anyway, you are right that it would not be good to be married to a person who thinks you are disgusting, but at the same time, there are men who are finding wives that do not see him as disgusting, where as the American women of similar quality, did, such as the man in this video.  So wouldn’t you agree that it is a smart move for men like him to find what they want someplace else if they are being rejected by what they want here?  To me it only makes sense.  To me, a guy like the one in the video, is the guy who doesn’t give up, who doesn’t worry about a locked door in front of him.  He simply does the smart thing and moves to another door to see if it is unlocked.

       

      Most men that my boyfriend and I know, who are doing things like this, are not looking for somebody so young, just younger.  But I know two who are in situations similar to this.  One is married to a Brazilian girl half his age.  He’s 52.  Did she do it to escape Brazil?  No, she was already a citizen, having moved here by herself, going to college, and getting her citizenship in the process.  She has many men her age still trying to flirt with her.  She’s not interested.

       

      Another is a guy we go to church with.  He actually met a younger woman on a facebook group dedicated to discussions on our religion.  She was actually a little rude to him at first, because he had told her friend that she was wrong about something.  She was standing up for her friend.  But he engaged her in rational discussion, and pretty soon, she sent him a friend request.  Not long after, she started flirting, and recently made it plain to him that she was receptive to him.  She’s half his age, and all for it.  He’s the one that has serious misgivings over the age, and I think he is unlikely to follow through as a result.  I talked to her, and she is serious about him, and has her reasons.  None of which involve a green card, or money, because he actually can’t give her a better life than she has there, because her family is actually fairly well off.  She’s a recent college graduate, working as a nurse, and also a classical violinist, having started when she was very young.

       

      So I guess what I am saying is that, as always, there are two sides to every coin.  You are 100% right that there are some seriously delusional men, who are just nasty, but there are also good men who are being rejected here, who find they are not rejected by quality women from other countries.

       

      I should note that I am Asian.  Am constantly told I look younger than I am.  Get hit on by men of all ages.  And many might think that I am a foreign bride when they first see me and my boyfriend.  Some with preconceived notions are shocked to learn that I have been a citizen for most of my life, and that I am very well educated.  They assume I should be a with a man who is much better looking, and wonder what the deal is.  The deal is that I don’t like bad boys, and I care less about looks than the man on the inside.  So I don’t cringe when I look at my boyfriend.  He’s not ugly, but I know many women see him as average, and would turn their nose up to him.  Their loss.

    4. 19.4
      MikeG

      Hey Nicole, I agree that is some disgusting business; when I worked for the fed, I had a supervisor who did this; went to the Philippines, I believe, to find some young thang…ughhh… So he comes back from his vacation two weeks later with a 17yr old wife. I suppose the fact that we were law enforcement didn’t translate to morale efficacy in his personal life, friggin rached.

  20. 20
    Saint Stephen

    @Goldie (#18)
    Lol :) …. thanks for the advice- that was very funny. At least Now i know i shouldn’t have to broach it up in a conversation. 

  21. 21
    Saint Stephen

    @Nicole (#21)
    James is not an old man. He’s a young guy with bright prospects. And who says he should go for a starving girl from a third world country? Russia is a developed country. Europe and Asia are also fast developing continents. In such countries you can still find educated women with prestigious careers. The only difference is that such women don’t need much chemistry to consider a relationship and they don’t have a long requirement list that a man needs to score very good in ticking all off. 

    1. 21.1
      Al

      What you are really saying is that, by going overseas, you think you can find a woman who meets your heightened expectation of attractiveness but who will ignore the fact that you do not meet that same requirement yourself.

      1. 21.1.1
        JennLee

        Or maybe what he is really saying is that he is just outside the top 20%, and he has an easier time finding a woman who is his equal who doesn’t feel she is settling because she didn’t get one of the top 20%, especially when she is also not in the top 20%?  Did you forget the OKCupid statistics where women placed 80% of the men in the below average category?

  22. 22
    Nicole

    @Saint Stephen, nowhere in my comment did I mention the original poster, and considering that you aren’t from this culture,  and don’t understand a lot of things nearly as well as you think, so I’m going to leave things there and not try to argue with someone who understands nothing about where I’m coming from.

    Perhaps work on making sure you’ve properly understood what you are reading before commenting.  I know that it’s not always easy to capture the essence of what people are saying when you are doing it in a second language.

    I’ve been to Russia(and India too for that matter).  It’s not third world but it’s not “first world” either, for a variety of reasons that are really off topic for this thread.

  23. 23
    Ruby

    St Stephen

    Apparently you haven’t heard of Russian bride scams, where men are duped into sending money to poor Russian women, on the pretense that they want to travel to America to meet them, or need the money to pay for their internet connection, or for an ailing relative, etc. Sometimes the women are looking for a green card, and dump the guy after they get it. The women involved are not educated, nor do they have prestigious careers. I’ve heard a number of men on Match.com complain about being contacted this way.

    If a 30 year old with half-way decent looks and a decent job is meeting only women who are “terrible”. something is wrong with his judgement. He’s not screening properly, he’s not choosing women who really like him, or he is turning the women he meets off in some way. 

  24. 24
    Ricci

    @Saint Stephen (#23)
    But why should anyone force themselves to keep dating someone they’re not physically attracted to and have little chemistry with? Is it in hopes that it will come later? Why not just be friends instead then? And hey, if an attraction manages to form later down the road, then that’s great. Why force it, or act like actually being into the other person and feeling like you vibe well with them doesn’t matter for a relationship. Wouldn’t it make you feel bad knowing the woman you’re in a relationship with isn’t feeling you? 
    Also, would you be in a relationship a women you didn’t really have much chemistry with?

  25. 25
    Callie

    I’m an Eastern European-American woman who gets hit on all the time by guys with Slavic fetishists – who are often deeply disappointed to find out that I’m American and not looking to be anybody’s fast track bride.

    @ St Stephen – Frankly, they don’t care about chemistry and that long compatability checklist because they care about your wallet and your American citizenship. If you like that better than being judged by your biceps or your ability to make conversation, fine, but don’t pretend it’s somehow superior to American women’s standards. 

  26. 26
    Goldie

    @ Ruby #25, yes, this happened to a friend of mine who had this obsession with Russian bride sites. I kept telling him that “Veronica”, that was emailing him, was probably some dude running a scam business out of his apartment, but he wouldn’t listen. Then one day, Veronica writes to him saying that she wants to come visit, and her aunt, who lives in the US, is paying for her plane tickets. There is only one problem – because Veronica’s aunt is not an American citizen, she is not allowed to wire money to Russia. So, Veronica continues, can you send me $3000 and my aunt or I will pay you back as soon as I get here?
     
    I told my friend that it took me six years to get my citizenship, and that, during those six years, I was able to send money to whomever I pleased, including my friends and relatives in Russia. He was so shocked and angry, he actually sent Veronica an email saying that he’s on to her/him/it. Hey, I’d tried to warn him all along…

  27. 27
    Ruby

    Goldie #28

    I’m sure “Veronica” seemed really nice, and was very pretty too. Good thing you were able to warn him!

  28. 28
    miskwa

    Evan:
    There are a number of reasons why “James” does not get a reply from womyn on-line. First, has he actually read their profiles and compared what he wants to what they want? This is a biggie; we get lots of contacts from guys that are in no way compatable with ourselves re. core values, family desires, type of relationship they want, our interests, etc. this is why so many of us get frustrated and give up. the dating sites also try and “match” you up w/ folks far, far from what you are looking for and often those that are 1000+ miles away (look at a map dudes). I am surprized by how many contacts I get from smokers, overweight guys (I am an ultrarunner), the politically conservative, guys into ski resort culture and/or motorsports, and those “recruiting” for a mommy for their kids from the last marriage. We get so many of these completely inappropriate “matches” that there is no way one can reply to them all (I get about a dozen to two dozen a day). Among other things, my profiles are very clear re. smoking, downhill ski culture, motorsports (I had a guy contact me from my mountain town that I had actually kicked off of my land because he was tearing it up w/ a !@## motorbike) that I am an environmentalist and Socialist and proud of it, I am waay too old to do the family thing, I am a very active person that believes that folks need to take responsibility for their health. “James” needs to read the profiles first.

  29. 29
    Saint Stephen

    @Nicole (#24)
    I know you never made mention of OP. I responded to your post because it related to my earlier set of comment.
    You said i misunderstood your comment (which i did not), secondly you quickly alluded English been a second language as the cause. I’ll only remind you that virtually every commentator (including Evan) in this blog have been accused of misreading/misunderstanding peoples comments.
    And by the way, you ought to know that i didn’t need to come from a culture to understand much about it. The world over (including those who had never been here) knows much about the American culture- given it’s stand in the World. Lol

    @Ruby (#25)
    What you said is true. but anyone who is serious and have what they call brains will definitely know how to weed out the Scammers from the serious minded ones. Though i never had Russia in mind (since they aren’t an English speaking country. And far from what you said many third world countries women aren’t starving or green card crazy the way folks like making them appear. I’ve traveled around, and what i see when i travel to Asian countries is the reverse case of American and European men migrating to settle with their Asian Wives. Women stepping up in education and work isn’t an American thing, is a global phenomenon. Infact a woman is currently the prime minister of Thailand, Denmark and if you go places in Africa you see women becoming Vice presidents, governors and senators. Truth is, most women in third world counties are more comfortable than you folks think they are. They might even be more comfortable than many American women… oh i digress.

  30. 30
    Saint Stephen

    EVAN SAID
    It seems that whenever he goes out with women, they’re all so SHALLOW.



    They never want to TAKE THE TIME to get to know him as a human being.                                                                                              
    They’re all looking for magical CHEMISTRY and trying to figure out within 5 minutes whether he’s their SOULMATE.
                                                                                                  
    Talking about relationships, We all know that women are responsible for 90% of first date which doesn’t translate to another.  Is definitely odd if a woman is struggling to get into a relationship, not for a man. A guy who does everything right but couldn’t produce enough chemistry may likely not even get a second date. Average men struggle very hard in having relationship, the way strong successful women do. From the way I see it, a woman who complains about relationship must have dismissed many men. Which of course means there are plenty of single average men like James.   There is nothing wrong with an average guy like James who is finding it difficult to have a relationship. Rather it would be odd if he was a strong successful guy but still having the same problem.
     

    1. 30.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      I think it’s strange, Saint Stephen, that you’re taking the time to defend James, when James is a perfect example of what NOT to be like.

      1. 30.1.1
        m

        If you look at how similar their POVs appear, based on their writings here … I for one don’t think it’s strange at all.

        JMHO, of course.

      2. 30.1.2
        Jack

        I feel as though the reason certain people are defending ‘James’ is that some can read the article and see James being told ‘being yourself isn’t good, change yourself for shallow people who don’t like who you are’ and then followed by a couple paragraphs explaining why James and people like James are aweful.

        That will cause people, weather or not they can see themselves in James, to defend him, because you verbally beat him, and people (strike that, men) like him.

        Most people know someone like James, a friend, a neighbor, a cousin, etc.

      3. 30.1.3
        kpak76

        Hi Evan,

        You’re really missing a HUGE point with James. Most women I’ve met are exactly as James described and I live an hour from him. You of all people know women don’t gravitate towards guys like James. The only attention I ever get from places like Match or Plenty of fish are overweight women whom I would never date, and even those are rare in between. What you should be doing is telling women to stop looking for that perfect handsome rich dude because chances are they will never find him. You should be telling women that they need to lower some of their standards because this day and age has created a huge group of women who all think they deserve the handsome young multi-millionaire. While they will never tell you this, you know by their action that is what they are seeking.

        If you really want to help people connect, help both parties realize that there is no such thing as a perfect connection, and that real love takes hard work. Finding someone to do this with should not be as hard as it is, and it’s definitely not the males who put up the roadblock. I’m not saying woman have to settle for the fat disgusting slobs who have no jobs, but the cute mechanic, or the handsome rail yard worker are perfectly acceptable matches.

      4. 30.1.4
        kpak76

        Evan look around the net, see what men are saying about women nowadays. This observation isn’t just from 2 guys in the Seattle area. It’s across the country.

      5. 30.1.5
        kpak76

        I think its strange that you dont realize that most men ARE like James. They are not feminist like you.

        1. Evan Marc Katz

          No, the men YOU know are like James. The men I know are comfortable around women, secure around women, and love women. That’s why they’re happily married instead of part of a “movement” of angry guys who feel emasculated by society. If you are a nice guy with balls, you’re going to do very well with women. If you are a nice guy with no balls, you go around complaining that women don’t appreciate you, and take your balls back by venting on the internet. Try being a better man instead of blaming women for your lack of success. By the way, that’s EXACTLY what I tell women who complain about men.

        2. kpak76

          Lol again with the assumptions. You make it hard to take anything you say seriously. Feminism taught you well i see.

          Statistics say that your “happily married” friend will have a 60% divorce rate (and the main reason that number isn’t higher is because our grandparents generation are still around. You know the last generation to actually believe family is important. From those divorces 80% of them are initiated by the woman. 90% wilk end up wirh the men losing custosy of their kids. And about that same percentage where men will end up losing half their stufg AND have to pay child support. Do the reseach, google makes it easy now.

          Again, i lost my anger when i realized i should have ZERO expectations from women. And whi is ro blame that there are so few men out there with balls? Feminist, how many times have you seen masculinity shamed by feminazis? Its all over the world now. Do you want me to get in a debate with you on what this is doing to the world?

        3. Evan Marc Katz

          Kpak – leave the facts to me.

          You only WANT to think that 60% of marriages end in divorce because YOU are so bad at relationships. In fact, the divorce rate is DECLINING.

          http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/marriage/the-divorce-rate-in-the-united-states-is-declining/

          Now, of course, marriage is declining too because guys like you opt out of the system, which is fine for any relationship oriented woman who wants a man who treats her well.

          But please don’t throw around false figures to make a specious argument. In fact, if you’re over 30 and college educated, your marriage has an 80% chance of survival.

          You can go on and on about divorce statistics, but that misses the point.

          People who read this blog want to learn to make smarter relationship choices. The goal isn’t to get married. The goal is to be happily married. And if that’s not your goal, I have no idea why you’d be reading this blog.

          And while “feminazis” (while not a term I’d ever use, because, you know, the whole Jewish thing?) are not my cup of tea, FEMINIST is a good word in that it advocates for true equality. And as a libertarian (am I right), you believe in equal right for everybody. So you should have no trouble with equal opportunity for women. You’re just standing up for masculinity. Okay. I’m standing up, too. But what does that entail? The right to rape? The right to insult women who are overweight? The right to fuck and not be courteous afterwards? The right to spend two years with someone when you have no intention of getting married but you know that what she wants? Being a man doesn’t give you the right to do whatever you want, no more than being a woman gives her the right to do whatever she wants. I’m all about fairness and civility. But MGOTWs and “feminazis” can keep on blaming each other without looking in the mirror – and then, when called on it, deny it outright. “I don’t hate women!” “I don’t hate men!” Look at your posts. You’re a misogynist parading as a realist. Leave realism to me and go back to your forum where you can rant about women to guys who believe the worst – and will never have the best.

        4. kpak76

          How can I leave the facts to you when you’re not posting accurate facts? The truth is no one knows if the divorce rate is declining. There is evidence on both arguments, some say its declining, even more say its rising.

          http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/03/27/divorce-is-actually-on-the-rise-and-its-the-baby-boomers-fault/

          Now it seems the baby boomers are at the fun. And no I am not throwing out false figures. That’s great and all for people who attend school, but what about those who don’t? They have under a 50% chance survival rate for marriage. Should we just forget those people out there exist? I date people in both those ranges, college educated women and non college educated women. Why should I discriminate based on education?

          The people who reads your blog seem to be people who are already prone to agree with what you are saying. You’re catering to a select group of people who probably believe heavily in feminist ideals. There is another group of people out there called conservatives who will look at some of the ideas your throwing out and disagree. You are right about some stuff, but I couldn’t disagree more with you on others.

          Feminazi is an actual word in Merrian-Websters dictionary. If the Jewish people are offended by that word, I would tell them to grow a thicker skin. It has nothing to do with them anways.

          Feminism is no longer about equality, it’s about domination of the matriarchy and death to the patriarchy. The feminist movement you speak of was the first wave. Today meninism is what feminism was in the 30’s and 40’s. They are actually about equal rights among the sexes. They are preaching for fair divorce proceedings. They are fighting to retract some of the ignorant rape laws we have in this country. It’s destructive to peoples lives when you tag them with sex offender labels because they urinate in public. The act is wrong, but not worthy of destroying someones life over it. No one should believe that 1 in 4 college women will get sexually assaulted because that is just not true. If it were, I can’t see how any sane and reasonable adult would ever send their daughters to college.

          Women received the equality they were seeking once they got the national right to vote and with the pass of the equal rights amendment. The cries now from feminist camps is nothing more than lies and warped use of statistics to get a country to kill off all signs of manhood in this country. You see it everywhere. In popular culture, at your workplace, at school. It’s sickening that we drug up little boys today because they show male traits. Every job I’ve had I had to tip toe around the workplace so I wouldn’t offend someone. On TV or in the popular art, you don’t see any semblance of a strong father figure. Where are todays Ward Cleavers, and Mike Bradys? They are replaced with guys like Kevin James, and Homer Simpson, bumbling idiots. If you don’t think feminism has nothing to do with this, you are sadly blinded by the myth they are selling.

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