Why Certain Men Will Never Do Well With Women – And What You Can Learn From Them

I’ve got a great story that I want to share with you today.

Even though I bill myself as a dating coach for “smart, strong, successful women”, I still maintain a few male clients.

I enjoy working with guys because, when they’re motivated, they’re hardworking and highly coachable. Plus, the men who gravitate towards me are usually “nice guys” who just need a little bit of an edge to succeed wildly with women.

In other words, most of my men are the one you should be dating in real life – the kind that are open to learning and growth and are willing to spend thousands of dollars to learn how to better connect with women.

The guy who called me today is completely different – and I had such an interesting phone call with him that I wanted to share it with you.

“James” tells me that he’s 30 years old, living in Seattle, working in IT. He sounds like a bright guy. A little angry, perhaps, but I’m used to getting clients who aren’t too happy with the fact that they’re reaching out to a dating coach.

James tells me that after focusing on his career for most of his 20’s, he’s been dating intently for the past year.

And it’s been TERRIBLE.

There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

It seems that whenever he goes out with women, they’re all so SHALLOW.

They never want to TAKE THE TIME to get to know him as a human being.

They’re all looking for magical CHEMISTRY and trying to figure out within 5 minutes whether he’s their SOULMATE.

The women he wants IGNORE him online, DON’T RETURN his calls after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT man.

As a result, James HATES dating.

Now, between you and me, it doesn’t take a dating coach to diagnose what ails James. There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

Still, I sympathized with James on the phone. After all, this IS his dating experience. It’s real, not imagined. And it’s normal to feel frustration when you can’t solve a problem.

I asked James what he thought that I could do for him. He mumbled something about helping him meet women who were different than the women he’s been dating.

I couldn’t hold back any longer.

“I hate to tell you, my friend, but the problem isn’t with all the women in Seattle. And dating coaching isn’t telling you where the “quality” women hang out. After 12 weeks of coaching with me, you know who’s going to be the same? Women in Seattle. As such, the ONLY thing we can do is change how YOU’RE approaching dating. Does that make sense?”

James paused for a second, gritted his teeth, and said, “I don’t want to change very much. The problem isn’t with me – it’s with THEM. WOMEN are the problem. I’m asking you to help me find better ones. Are you telling me you can’t do that?”

“What I’m telling you, James, is that you’re the common denominator in your life. And, logically, since I can’t change Seattle, or women, or Match.com, or anything else, the greatest shift is going to come in how you approach women, how you understand women, how you flirt with women, how you connect with women. But it’s about YOU learning, and YOU changing. That’s what yields the best, most long-lasting results.”

I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

James and I aren’t going to be working together. And that’s fine by me. I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

And the not-so-subtle reason I shared this story with you is to ask you to reflect on whether you have anything in common with James.

Do you think dating is TERRIBLE?

Are you frustrated that men don’t take the time to get to know you?

Do you get bent out of shape when men IGNORE you online, DON’T FOLLOW UP after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT woman?

Do you think that, if only MEN changed, you’d be in a happy relationship by now?

If so, I hate to tell you, YOU are the one who needs to adjust. Just like James.

You’re not “wrong” that men could improve in 100 different ways. You’re mistaken in thinking that men are going to improve. Your job isn’t to CHANGE men.

It’s to become the kind of woman who UNDERSTANDS men, ATTRACTS men, KEEPS men happy, and CHOOSES good men. This is the key to a successful relationship.

And no, it’s no different than how James needs to learn to attract, understand, and connect with women in order to keep them happy. Until he does, all he’s going to do is complain about YOU, and how unfair you are to him.

In reading this blog, subscribing to my newsletter and http://www.evanmarckatz.com/coaching/, you have a chance to learn something that will change your life.

The question isn’t whether this information can make a difference.

The question is whether you are going to be like James and continue to blame the opposite sex for everything.

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Comments:

  1. 31
    Saint Stephen

    @Ricci (#26)
    I understand your points and i concur that you do not need to force anyone to date who they aren’t attracted to. But i believe If this women will accept to be just friends like you said, many of them will wind up feeling attracted to him. The problem is American women need instant chemistry and any guy who isn’t producing it on a first date, will get Nothing. No second date, No relationship. And by this i’ll infer many men are loosing out.

    1. 31.1
      SparklingEmerald

      St Stephen:  How many women have YOU not felt initial attraction to, but grew attracted to over time ?
      http://www.yourtango.com/experts/julie-ferman/what-if-im-just-not-attracted-guy
      Men AND women reject each other due to lack of “chemistry” but this woman interviewed men and women, and found out, more often than not, women will give a guy they aren’t initially attracted to another chance than men will, if there’s no initial attraction. 
      Personally, I have tried the “give a guy a chance” route, and all it has ever done is create an uncomfortable situation, and/or an accusation that I’ve “lead him on”.  Just one more damned if you, damned if you don’t.  Women are wrong for not giving a guy a second chance and they are wrong for leading a guy on.
      I guess it’s HUMAN nature, to feel that it’s perfectly OK when YOU are the one doing the  rejecting, but it’s a huge injustice when someone rejects YOU.
      Also, men might think that they haven’t rejected women, but every woman who has ever tried to subtly flirt with you, by catching your eye, smiling at you from across the room, or coming up and starting a conversation etc. that you just didn’t notice, well that’s a form of rejection.  I’m not saying that you must walk into a room and approach every woman, but every woman who was hoping you would flirt back, approach, and you didn’t, well that IS a form of rejection, even though you aren’t aware of it.
      I find it hard to believe that there is ANY man on the planet who hasn’t actively rejected a woman by not calling for a second or third date, has NEVER been the one to end a relationship etc.  But if that’s the case, then surely, there has been the girl you have passively rejected, simply by not noticing her, when she was trying to flirt with you or trying to get your attention.   Not saying it’s wrong, in fact the opposite, no one should try to FORCE themselves to be attracted to someone, and I even think that insisting that someone give someone a second or third chance, is in essence, an attempt to shame them into dating someone they simply aren’t attracted to.
      As someone else said, dating and relationships are difficult enough when there IS initial attraction.  Why would anyone try to navigate all that withOUT attraction ?
       

  2. 32
    Saint Stephen

    @Evan Marc Katz
    You are right. I’ll work very hard to be successful, so i wouldn’t have to be like James, or suffer what he’s going through.
    Thanks!!
     

  3. 33
    Katarina Phang

    Stephen, you’ve been the advocate of chemistry second/third/fourth, and everything else first.  Sorry, hon, I’m not sure how many relationships you’ve been with (but I’m pretty sure you have been in none from the idealized things you said), unless you are in an arranged marriage culture, that just won’t work.

    Welcome to the real world, where being in a relationship is a choice and romantic feelings reign supreme.

    It’s not about right or wrong, it’s just the way it is in our world here (and I’m sure in most places all over the world). 

    No chemistry,no incentive for relationship.

    Why would I want to be in relationship with any guy whom I’m not attracted to physically?  It’s hard enough when there is mutual chemistry.  And no, you won’t just be attracted to someone over time just because he/she’s a wonderful person.  It’s either there or it’s not  You can’t force this and it’s beyond your power whom you’re attracted to.  If that was a matter of choice, nobody would be single and lonely.

  4. 34
    Ruby

    St Stephen

    Nowhere do I see evidence that James is unsuccessful in his career, or that he is unattractive. If he works in IT, he could be making very good money. He’s 30. He doesn’t have to be a corporate CEO at this point (or any).

    I’ve also never seen any evidence that a desire for at least some chemistry is an exclusively American trait. Since when are women 90% responsible for there being a second date? Both parties are deciding that simultaneously on a date. In fact, I’d say that women are more likely to give someone a second chance than men are, more likely to wonder if there’s something about the guy they’ve missed. Men are very visual. If a man isn’t attracted to a woman, he is very unlikely to ask her out again. 

  5. 35
    Goldie

    @ #35, From reading the post, sounds to me like James is a negative guy who thinks everything is always someone else’s fault, never his own. It is possible to be successful in your work, and still be all these things in your personal life. Just based on the fact that James can afford a dating coach like EMK (which I can only in my dreams), he sounds pretty successful to me.

  6. 36
    Nicole

    @Katarina, it has to be very hard to understand the way that we do things when viewing them from the outside.  Different cultures clearly have different expectations when it comes to dating and marriage, and I think it is always hard when someone who isn’t from the U.S. attempts to interpret what we do and why we do it.
    I definitely have known many, many people from cultures where dating is rare and marriage is frequently arranged, and I can’t claim to understand how they deal with the attraction factor.  
    But I also think that in those countries, people who can get away with it find chemistry with someone else, since the downside to the absence of choosing a mate seems to be that it frequently goes hand in hand with divorce being extremely looked down upon.
    So I agree with you, but it’s also true that it can be hard to explain it to someone who wasn’t raised in this culture, especially to someone who has decided to jump on the bandwagon that the problem is that Western women are superficial, trampy,  and materialistic.   

  7. 37
    Heather

    Evan, it’s funny that you bring this topic up.

    I once dated a man who complained about dating, he was so nice and they all were flaky, too busy, too this, too that.

    What it really boiled down to in his case, was that he didn’t want to truly commit to anyone, and probably still doesn’t, because his Mom wears the pants and has to approve his relationships, and he’s now 40 years old!  And from what I recently heard in the grapevine, he is currently still alone.

    Usually when I hear a guy or a girl go it’s all on them, I think uh oh, this is somebody who’s got issues.  When every date is bad, or everyone of that gender is a problem, then it’s usually that person who’s got the problem.  I used to think that way too, but then I grew up and realized I needed to make some changes.

    And it’s making dating a lot easier.  I just know more about what to expect (or not) from men, and it makes things so much less dramatic, stressful, etc.

    Thanks for this thought, it was great!

  8. 38
    Gretta

    I’m a Seattle girl and I know a guy named James who is exactly like this and I thought to myself for a split second “maybe Evan just WROTE that he was changing the names but in fact didn’t.”
    I am thrilled to discover that both were made up. Seattle chicks are the COOLEST. I think that anyone generalizing HUGE groups of people is denying their own shortcomings. It’s the same across the board. If you keep having to quit jobs or keep getting fired because there’s something wrong with every manager and how every manager does business. . .there’s actually something wrong with you.
    If you keep trying the same approach and it never works, change your approach bro. 

  9. 39
    Julie

    To #2: Smash, I personally think that men in Seattle are not all that great either. :)
    So far I have never met a Seattle man who would be smart, funny, holding a job, good-looking (at least, not obviously disproportional and taller than 5″5), single and interested in me at the same time.
    I really don`t know what the heck is going on with Seattle. Could it be that all the good Seattle men are paralyzed and bed-ridden after getting into some horrible skiing and biking accidents? Go figure.

  10. 40
    Joe

    Maybe they’re only 5’5″ because the coffee stunts their growth.

  11. 41
    NonExist

    Well one cannot fill a cup that is already full.
    Or something similar quite a few martial arts sensei always say about students who refuse to be taught.
    So James is going to keep having issues.  Plus his being negative is probably the main thing holding him back.
    And I’ll bet it was one or two women that have him that way.

    I have the opposite problem. I can find a pretty good amount of personalbe ladies in my area.  Problem is the ones who actually are interested in me seem to all want marriage and kids. ?Which they express after 3-6 months of dating. 

    And I prefer a long term committment where each of us has our own place so if one person wants out I do not have to deal with court cases, moving out, ending a lease and all the other legal and financial matters that come with which I have already gone through once. 

  12. 42
    Jim

    I’m gonna go out on a limb here and defend the OP. And it doesn’t have to be Seattle it could be any city in the U.S. Women these days are incredible; as in judgmental beyond belief. I’ve had women reject me within 3 words of an email from an incredible written profile. It really doesn’t matter what you do, what you say, how you dress or how you act; it is never good enough. They whip out the “creepy stalker freak” label before you’ve even opened your mouth. And then they turn around and use the “why are men so passive and won’t take charge” excuse. Well ladies, men are so confused at what you want they are afraid to say or do anything because they are afraid they will be arrested. Frankly, it is far easier and safer to stay home and watch porn. The next time you start judging someone you don’t even know and whip out the “creepy stalker freak” label please think of this: you are ruining the dating life of men and women everywhere. Just shut the hell up, try to relax and have an open mind, and really try to just have a good time. Then teach all your girlfriends to do the same.

  13. 43
    Dora

    Gretta /41/ -  so well said – great…
    We all come to the stage of blaming the opposite sex for everything,but I agree with most of the ladies here- ARE the men who just mess things around , at least in most cases, regardless a woman gives them a chance or not. Men just do not give a damn what a woman want, men are selfish and selfcentered and have their ow agenda and..yes…PLAY GAMES – they lie,they deseive with the only goal – to get laid. Is said that men are straight forward and go directly to the point -noooo, not true, they play games, can promice the world to a woman just to get what they really want… Evan is by far one of the most true direct men I ever heard of…Good on you ,Evan, I envy your wife.
    45-Jim said women have to relax and enjoy and wait…hey,Jim,wait for what..? If you didn’t want relationship on the first place,what will lady waiting lead to- you changing your mind…?! Don’t think so.. Or if you already told the woman you love her and you keep going out with her and loving your time together- than what is your problem to have relationship and move things forward..Whats wrong in getting married and having family, why men should play games
    Everyone have to honest and straight forward from day 1 – the truth may hurt ,but the pain will pass and the gratitude from the truth will come. LIes and games are much, much more hurtful and last veeeeery long time and than transpare onto next partner or notion of such..They also do not give a choice to the person , lies are controlling instrument for men to get their momentum satisfaction.. So, you James, not only have to change yourself,but you have to start be honest and straight forward and if you do not want relationship – say it to the lady. Women will love the honesty. If I could I would attach here the saga of “Prince Arthur and the witch” – is very , very good in all those topics.

  14. 44
    Formalhault

    I have to agree here I am from cali and plus I have lived all over ther world. I’ve been stuck in this miserable failure excuse of a dating scene for 7 years and I must say that these women are some of the coldest, most frigid, bitchiest, immature, emotionally inept, self entitled, passionless, stuck up and ironically enough easiest to get into bed instead of a relationship females I’ve ever dealt with in my life.

  15. 45
    marymary

    Formal
    i don,t get it. They will have sex with you but don,t want a relationship? 

  16. 46
    Formalhault

    sex is way easier to come by than a relationship here.
    you know the biggest realization i have came across about this place is that people are afraid of eachother. 
    this is no passion, excitement, or sexual energy. 
    just fear

  17. 47
    Amy

    Well,  look at this.  Mel Gibson ended up with the woman he was with and then turned around and complained about it.  Look at the woman in the movie Signs that he was with.  Now compare those two women.  No wonder he went crazy.  He is supposed to be with someone for their spirit and picked someone for her looks.  No wonder!

  18. 48
    VeryMuchTrue

    if we had much more better educated women out there today, then many of us good men would not be cursed at by them when we are trying to start a normal conversation with the one that we are attracted too.

  19. 49
    Jennifer

    #51
    ‘much more better educated women’? :-/

  20. 50
    VeryMuchTrue

    #52  very true, and i never expected to have a woman Curse at me when i thought that she was nice to meet. would i Curse at a woman if she came up to me to start a conversation with me?, certainly not. that just shows you how many very nasty women that are out there these days, what a shame. then they wonder why us Guys can’t meet a decent woman anymore. then again, these type of women are certainly not worth meeting anyway.

  21. 51
    judy

    Yes, a change of attitude helps a lot.  For me, learning to date again, and trust again is a big thing. 
    What helps me enormously is feedback from some of the kinder gentlemen on here, and those out in the big wide world – those who are married and treat me with respect and don’t come on to me.
    Those singles who tell me I look great (and I tell them when they look great too).
    The everyday men in our lives who smile at you or who are just sweet.
    Looking round at men and asking myself, hey, if he was single, and asked me if I wanted a coffee, would I say yes? (Yes, I jolly well would!)
     

  22. 52
    Matt

    Women have been elevated to God status in this society, and the worst part is most women believe that crap.
    Every American woman is waiting for Brad Pitt or George Clooney to wisk them off their feet….even when they are 300 lbs.
     

  23. 53
    Karl R

    Matt, (#55)
    I constantly tell women that they need to change their approach to dating. So does Evan.
     
    Guess what. You’re still not going to get a girlfriend.
     
    Even though I tell women they need to change, I also tell women that they should avoid men like you … and VeryMuch (#51), and Formalhault (#47), and Jim (#45), and James (original post) etc.
     
    Any man or woman who blames the opposite sex for their own dating difficulties is going to be a lousy boyfriend/girlfriend. This is true for the men I mentioned here (and many more like them). This is equally true for the women who keep insisting that Evan needs to tell men to change.
     
    If you’re a woman who has been insisting that men are the problem, and Evan needs to tell men to change, you sound just as unappealing as Matt, VeryMuch, Formalhault, Jim and James. They’re not going to stand a chance until they realize that they need to change.
     
    Think it through.

    1. 53.1
      jane

      INTERESTING….. but I agree that TRUTH is the game changer. You are #53. I suggest that #43 came across as a rant…. but the jux au pont is important and correct in this mix.
      In general…
      Men seem to take the approach “whatever gets me the attention that I need” is best.
      Women are more focused on sharing. One equals honesty, one equals lies and puffery.

  24. 54
    Rose

    I agree Karl telling other people to change what they do is useless.
    The only people we can change is ourselves and we have to want to do that. By doing this we may inspire them to want to change themselves or they may still not want to. If they don’t we just have to decide if it is a dealbreaker to the realtionship and if we are a match. Or if we don’t like it but will tolerate and live with it.
    examples would be if we are with a man or woman who drinks too much and we would like them to change and stop drinking.
    We could keep trying to make them change, nag, cry, plead, hide their drink etc. Or we could simply change what we do and stop focusing on trying to change and control what another person does.
    Out the focus back on us and state that we no longer want to be in a relationship with someone who gets drunk. They then decide that they want to stop or not. Either way if being in a relationship with a person who gets drunk makes us unhappy this way change will then occur. Either they will decide themselves they want to stop or we decide we are leaving the relationship. And get to choose a better person and match for us which will make us feel happier.
    By changing what we do, we open the door for change one way or another to occur.
    Same with monogomy. Or any other issue that is important to us.
    When we blame other people for our unhappiness we are putting our lives and happiness in their hands. Giving away our power and control over our own lives and happiness.
     

  25. 55
    Goldie

    I just scrolled up and read #45, wow. Show of hands – how many women here have actually used the words “creepy stalker freak” in an email to a guy, or on an actual face-to-face date? I know I haven’t. None of my guy friends that are single and dating, have ever been called one. I would say, if a man gets called “creepy stalker freak” by a lot of women he tries to date, then it would probably do him a lot of good to sit down and reflect on what about him may have given off this vibe. Like really sit down and analyze – what was the thing you said or did right before she said “creepy stalker freak”? Because it sure enough is not a common occurrence!

  26. 56
    AJ

    Well with the kind of women that we have out there nowadays really speaks for itself.

  27. 57
    Greg

    The basic flaw in your reasoning here is that James is expected to change himself, almost entirely; to perceive women differently, further change his “intent” which translates from finding a woman to love, reproduce, and build a life with, to one of reckless abandon and blatant disregard to any outcome, further allowing any pieces to fall where they may along the way. What you’re talking about equates to self fulfillment which, unfortunately, never coincides with the safe and strong foundation which James is seeking in the form of a family he can call his own.

    At no point did James convey that he had a problem getting laid; that’s easy in a liberal society where the average woman’s mentality is most comparable to that of a trollop in nineteenth century, merry old London, further every bit as incompatible with a family now as they were then. Therefore, as a “dating coach, perhaps you should recognize that not every client is out to simply get lucky…

  28. 58
    Tom R

    I’d never spend thousands of dollars on a dating coach. That’s absolutely ludicrous!

    James, if you ever read this (unlikely as that may be) just continue to be who you are. Don’t change for anyone, least of all women. Focus on what truly matters to you (for me it’s friends, family, music and my career in the entertainment industry) and everything will fall into place.

    There’s no point in changing who you are just so you can be with someone. If a woman isn’t interested in me then so be it. I don’t give a shit.

  29. 59
    Tim

    Boils down to women or I should say most women in the US are self absorbed by feminism, Hollywood and Liberals.  It is what it is, I have no sympathy if they are alone for the rest of their lives.

  30. 60
    daniel

    you should try a different angle as a coach.. rather than trying to change his approach or note being able to find him the right woman you might consider exploring why he is not attracting the type of women he wants… i work as a spiritual coach and most of the time we dont receive what we want when we are afraid of it.

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