Why Certain Men Will Never Do Well With Women – And What You Can Learn From Them

I’ve got a great story that I want to share with you today.

Even though I bill myself as a dating coach for “smart, strong, successful women”, I still maintain a few male clients.

I enjoy working with guys because, when they’re motivated, they’re hardworking and highly coachable. Plus, the men who gravitate towards me are usually “nice guys” who just need a little bit of an edge to succeed wildly with women.

In other words, most of my men are the one you should be dating in real life – the kind that are open to learning and growth and are willing to spend thousands of dollars to learn how to better connect with women.

The guy who called me today is completely different – and I had such an interesting phone call with him that I wanted to share it with you.

“James” tells me that he’s 30 years old, living in Seattle, working in IT. He sounds like a bright guy. A little angry, perhaps, but I’m used to getting clients who aren’t too happy with the fact that they’re reaching out to a dating coach.

James tells me that after focusing on his career for most of his 20’s, he’s been dating intently for the past year.

And it’s been TERRIBLE.

There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

It seems that whenever he goes out with women, they’re all so SHALLOW.

They never want to TAKE THE TIME to get to know him as a human being.

They’re all looking for magical CHEMISTRY and trying to figure out within 5 minutes whether he’s their SOULMATE.

The women he wants IGNORE him online, DON’T RETURN his calls after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT man.

As a result, James HATES dating.

Now, between you and me, it doesn’t take a dating coach to diagnose what ails James. There isn’t a woman in the world who’d enjoy going out with a man who believes that ALL women are fickle and unfair.

Still, I sympathized with James on the phone. After all, this IS his dating experience. It’s real, not imagined. And it’s normal to feel frustration when you can’t solve a problem.

I asked James what he thought that I could do for him. He mumbled something about helping him meet women who were different than the women he’s been dating.

I couldn’t hold back any longer.

“I hate to tell you, my friend, but the problem isn’t with all the women in Seattle. And dating coaching isn’t telling you where the “quality” women hang out. After 12 weeks of coaching with me, you know who’s going to be the same? Women in Seattle. As such, the ONLY thing we can do is change how YOU’RE approaching dating. Does that make sense?”

James paused for a second, gritted his teeth, and said, “I don’t want to change very much. The problem isn’t with me – it’s with THEM. WOMEN are the problem. I’m asking you to help me find better ones. Are you telling me you can’t do that?”

“What I’m telling you, James, is that you’re the common denominator in your life. And, logically, since I can’t change Seattle, or women, or Match.com, or anything else, the greatest shift is going to come in how you approach women, how you understand women, how you flirt with women, how you connect with women. But it’s about YOU learning, and YOU changing. That’s what yields the best, most long-lasting results.”

I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

James and I aren’t going to be working together. And that’s fine by me. I can’t help someone who doesn’t truly want to understand, learn, and grow.

And the not-so-subtle reason I shared this story with you is to ask you to reflect on whether you have anything in common with James.

Do you think dating is TERRIBLE?

Are you frustrated that men don’t take the time to get to know you?

Do you get bent out of shape when men IGNORE you online, DON’T FOLLOW UP after dates, and generally seem to want the PERFECT woman?

Do you think that, if only MEN changed, you’d be in a happy relationship by now?

If so, I hate to tell you, YOU are the one who needs to adjust. Just like James.

You’re not “wrong” that men could improve in 100 different ways. You’re mistaken in thinking that men are going to improve. Your job isn’t to CHANGE men.

It’s to become the kind of woman who UNDERSTANDS men, ATTRACTS men, KEEPS men happy, and CHOOSES good men. This is the key to a successful relationship.

And no, it’s no different than how James needs to learn to attract, understand, and connect with women in order to keep them happy. Until he does, all he’s going to do is complain about YOU, and how unfair you are to him.

In reading this blog, subscribing to my newsletter and http://www.evanmarckatz.com/coaching/, you have a chance to learn something that will change your life.

The question isn’t whether this information can make a difference.

The question is whether you are going to be like James and continue to blame the opposite sex for everything.


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  1. 61

    LOL. I’ll walk side by side with a woman in a relationship. Let her and every one else know she is the only one. But There will be no bending over backwards. You either want a relationship, or sugar daddy, and I’m not intetested in surgar babies.

  2. 62

    Great post! Nothing is more off-putting to me as when a man exhibits bitterness/distrust/entitlement toward womankind in general, and it’s even more damaging to the man when he does so online! I often baulk when my male friends post such status updates on Facebook, and also when I read online blogs with similar themes. I always think to myself “These kids are digging their own grave!” Suppose these men did actually attract this ‘Perfect’ woman they so desire (and believe they deserve). This lady will probably eventually read the blog, and scroll through the Facebook page, and see these comments. I’m certain this would result in this woman seriously questioning who she was getting involved with! I bet these are not men who will find their woman beautiful during pregnancy, and who will continue to love and respect her as she grows older. Of course the same is true for women, and I imagine it is very off-putting to detect bitterness and resentment in the way a woman speaks of men in general. Great article Evan! I hope many men heed your advice!!

    1. 62.1

      One thing I’m learning as I spiritually mature, and it’s very freeing, is just to accept folks where there at.  By that, I don’t mean you must be romantically involved with them; I mean you accept them where they are, provided it’s not unhealthy or dangerous.  We’re all at different places on this journey and we all have our own race to run.  I still don’t know if I ever want to be in a relationship or not, but I have learned a lot as a result of paying attention to what Evan has to say.  I was quite naive until I stumbled upon his blog.  We don’t have to see eye to eye on every exact thing to benefit from one another’s wisdom and insight.

    2. 62.2

      SO true.. so many men are so bitter and angry I would HATE to meet them.
      No wonder they cant find women who are smart… and never will.
      Life is like a box of chocolates,, you never know what you are going to find.
      So,,,, stop grouping them all together. IF you meet a girl in a bar,,she probably drinks,, duh,, its not rocket science. The perfect women does not exist. I can think of dozens of things I need to improve on and I am so lucky to have a good man. (a top scientist in his field) I am not that educated but I have traveled and I am very informed about todays political and economical issues,, we can all learn.
      One of my neighbor’s is a singleton and I know why… he is so full of himself and expects the women to do all the work (he wears sweats and she must look like miss Universe) in the relationship. I want to tell him but if I mention it he just complains and says:”””Its them not me”””.AHHHHH.
      He is almost 50 and still single..I think he likes it that way or he would change.

  3. 63

    “You’re not “wrong” that men could improve in 100 different ways. You’re mistaken in thinking that men are going to improve. Your job isn’t to CHANGE men.

    It’s to become the kind of woman who UNDERSTANDS men, ATTRACTS men, KEEPS men happy, and CHOOSES good men. This is the key to a successful relationship.”

    I think this is why I tend to enjoy time with younger women instead of women more in my target range. With women in my target range, a date often feels more like a job interview, and may men I know have expressed these same sentiments. But Evan is right…I can’t make women in my target range change to be a woman I want to be with. And yet I am at a loss as to what I can change to make this better for me, because it isn’t that I am not attracting women in that range, it’s that I don’t like what I am finding.” I refuse to be in a relationship where I feel I am always going to be the default person who is to blame for everything. Always the bad guy. Sometimes it feels like the more you try to be the good guy, the more you get blamed for what’s wrong.

    1. 63.1

      Another thing I have learned is people are going to be who they are. Extend grace even if it’s not reciprocated. Sometimes we do the right thing for no other reason than it’s right.  Doesn’t mean you have to stay involved with the person who mistreated you.  But one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.  That’s no less than Evan encourages women to do.  He just sprinkles his message with a lot more grace.

    2. 63.2

      Very interesting about being the blame guy.  In my current relationship, that I am dumping, this man can insult me, mock me, not show up on time, flake on me and he sees nothing wrong with this … I am wrong to not be understanding and to have “thicker skin”.  He states … he can do no right in an attempt to shut down my dislike.  This relationship isn’t for me and I will be yet another evil American woman that has rejected him.  I do not insult him, mock him, I honor my word, I do not gawk at other men in his presents, etc.  Have core values now become “work” ?

  4. 64
    Nasty Nate

    I would hate to agree with James in the story, but women nowadays are very shallow! I’ve played the dating field for a little over 2 decades, & women nowadays, even the ones that are from my generation & were not shallow 10-15yrs ago, have become very shallow. More then likely it is because of how society has shifted its thought process on dating in general, that women also have become more independent then 20 plus years ago, & well media has put a lot of ideas in our heads too. I know I will get a lot of flack for what I am saying, but it will be because what I state is fact, & no one women or men, like hearing the truth. See women are looking for their prince charming that will sweep them off their feet, take care of them & their kids from different men, or just be the perfect mate, tall, dark & handsome. This is how more & more women see dating nowadays, you see it online dating all the time! Women making states like “I won’t settle for anything less then the best!” Or “I am looking for the perfect man that is not only cute, tall, & has a career but also is funny!” Etc etc etc & the majority of the women do this. When my parents were dating & their generation was coming of age, height/status/looks were not the focal point like today. Sure they women wanted to date someone cute but if he worked at the local burger joint & was 5’6″ & rode his bike everywhere, long as he made them feel special at that moment & made her laugh, everything else was perfect for her. Not any longer, the man could be 5’8″ a tad chubby & make $25,000 a yr, has a workable car, & could be the funniest sweetest man around but he is not datable to most be cause he is not of 6′ or he is not in shape enough, or he isn’t making enough money to support her! These are facts that occur in online dating nowadays! It has happened to me, my friends, some family, & it is sad & pathetic that most women are becoming the men they so hated 20 plus years ago. You know ladies, the men you’d complain about to your friends that only wants to date sexy women that put out on the first date! I mainly blame shows like sex in the city & media for the way most women have become. Hell it has gotten so bad, most women will not date a man that has custody of his children but wants men to date her & accept her children, double standards! I am one of those men that is only 5’6″, I make $40,00-$50,000 a yr, am a little chubby but trying to get into shape, & have full custody of my children, yet once women see men in person & find out that I do have full custody of my kids, most never talk to me again because either I’m too short for them tho I am taller then they are or they don’t want to have to be apart of other kids lives full time when they have their own to worry about, even tho I would accept their children. These are facts I am stating, because these things have happened, & I cannot change my height or would never give up my children for any woman. Maybe it is women that do need to change, see that once they cross 40yrs old most men don’t want them anyway, so they better start “settling” more & seeing thru the minor details & start looking at that person for who they are not what they have to offer or look like!

  5. 65
    Peter Vujin

    It is, after all, simple, really. Divide and conquer. That is what has happened, except this time the people have been duped in their personal life. Who benefits? The pyramidion…think about it…women have become worse than men…men have never been good…how can a good society come out of this? Aha – so now you know – all this is an aspect of depopulation and other social programming, while you are worried about paying your bills, some are worried about paying your pensions, so as they see you as human cattle, they would rather you hate each other than actually love each other and form a strong community. THAT they are afraid of – everything else they can influence, change, profit from…;) ps. Don’t give in – refuse to conform – be your own selves – forget the rest.

    1. 65.1

      Peter Vujin said: “all this is an aspect of depopulation and other social programming

      Good grief.  Where is the face-palm button.  :-/
      Conspiracy-theory much?

  6. 66

    So what’s a guy to do when he goes on a lot of first dates and there’s lots of smiling and laughter? Yet gets told repeatedly there’s “no connection” or “no chemistry”? I’ve tried to change. Be a little more flirty. Not so attentive. I don’t ask dumb things like “how is this going” when we are on the date. I’m not bad looking not great looking but I am very thin. It’s my body frame and I’ve tried to work on it by working out but there is only so much I can do with it. Many of the same women have dating horror stories or boyfriend horror stories yet do not give me a second chance. Including one who kissed me for fifteen straight minutes after the date and told me I was “cute, charming, smart and funny” but that knew we would “never kiss again.” My point being that I have made a conscious effort to change what I can. I am attentive to women as individuals. The only times I have had someone call me back is when I showed frustration because they did something really outlandish. By outlandish, trust me, every woman I told agreed, it is just too lengthy to post the stories here. Bottom line. I have tried to change and I treat women with respect and I get the “great guy, no chemistry” line more than you can probably imagine. So what’s a guy to do when he has tried to change, when in spite of being disillusioned he tries to treat women as individuals, yet they still fundamentally act the same toward him? I have dated women of all different backgrounds and shapes and sizes. If we meet online, obviously they liked the picture enough to go out. Then in some cases they liked me enough to stay on the date for several hours laughing and talking. Then they make an excuse to not see me again. I’m sorry but when I have already made more conscious efforts to do things differently than I can count, I can only include many women are indeed the same when it comes to evaluating men. I now avoid anyone who has a bad relationship history with men if I can screen that out before meeting. In other words, cheating or abuse. I seem to do poorly with those kinds of women particularly. Hopefully screening that way helps because it is all I have left.

    1. 66.1

      B said: “My point being that I have made a conscious effort to change what I can.

      I often feel the same way.
      My only recommendation, keep working on yourself, keep improving, keep trying, stay positive, and trust that some date will be with a person who feels the same way back as you do.

  7. 67

    So, basically, no one is helping or guiding James with what could be a wider issue than dating problems.  He’s just to be used as an example of the kind of guy not to be.  What happens when he becomes frustrated with his life to the point where it’s no longer bearable?  Society is so narrow-minded these days.

  8. 68

    This is a allover Western World phenomenon. Why there are differences in culture that vary and being oblivious of them could short cut a date to an early and unsatisfying end, the dating experience above is the same. Evan, your article had a lot of potential you let slip. This feeling and this experience of women, who behave like kids and expect a man to perform while out on a date with him is exactly what I had the last dozen dates in Germany and guess what? I had this feeling of dating sucks. I continued and changed my approach only with the same results and sometimes there is a second date and some kissing. That’s it.

    There are a lot of guys like James, by I script him differently, what about if he tells you he wants to submit anything to change, but being honest he does not know if can do so well. Because you are still suposed to be yourself and not pretend to be some phony persona you are not. So this would be interesting, instead of pointing out that James sucks forever. He might conclude to submit himself to change in a while. How about that? It’s a lazy story. Pity!

  9. 69

    To Jennifer  #49,  Grow up already.

  10. 70
    Jenny Ravelo

    He probably knows he’s the problem, but recognizing it threatens him because he’d have to face many of his own defects. This is true for so many people. 

  11. 71

    He could be unlucky.i work on myself.im in therapy.i work hard.but i still attract men who are like the women james described.im sorry but alot of people now do want to click immediately.its the world today.maybe it is just bad luck.i think best thing is to not try too hard to get somebody and keep busy.i have changed my hair and clothes and approach lots of times.i believe that i should be myself and the rite person will come along when the time is rite.cos sometimes it just is being in the rite place at the rite time.beating yourself up and hating yourself cos you have had bad dates is really dumb.

  12. 72

    I think instead of blaming the women for being rotten , why not read books like “Men are From Mars Women are from Venus” I love that book and wish my boyfriend would read it more.. My boyfriend (of 10 years) is a scientist PhD and very geeky and nerdy,, he is very handsome and tall a big mix of weird things but he loves to talk and we are always going somewhere… my advise to James “angry in Seattle” is get these girls to go somewhere on a trip where they can see you in a setting other than a dinner setting or a bar.Yuk, That way they can see you in different situations. I am never comfortable having dinner with a stranger and if I get drunk its going to bring out the weirdo in me.
    So,,, say something to the cutest girl you see “Hey,, Im going skiing this weekend would you like to come?” ( NO date.. just a day out.) OR get a pal to hook you up on a blind date and go bowling.. or to a movie.. No embarrassing intimate places..please. Too much pressure to be perfect. IF she says no,, then you saved yourself some time.

    1. 72.1

      @Lorraine You’re not comfortable having dinner with a stranger, but you are comfortable driving into the wilderness for two hours and spending the day on a mountain with them?

      1. 72.1.1

        Um … how do you know that they’re not going with friends? How do you know there aren’t going to be a bunch of people around at the lodge?

        And how do you know that Lorraine might or might not be uncomfortable about dinner with a stranger for entirely different reasons that she might or might not be comfortable being invited to go skiing?

        For starters …?

  13. 73

    I was with you until I read “Seattle”, that place… The only solution is to get out of there.  Book a ticket to Thailand and never ever go back.  Settle in Europe afterwards, or South America.

  14. 74

    Women can hold out 100X longer than men. A (healthy) man has trouble going ONE week without sex. A woman can go 100 WEEKS (2 years) without sex before she starts getting desperate (like a guy)!
    In other words, women don’t need sex.
    The problem for guys is that women can get relationship from other women (and even sex.) Men on the other hand cannot get sex from other men. Therefore women will ALWAYS have the power in a sexual relationship.
    My point? Go climb Mount Everest. Climbing Mt. Everest is EASIER than getting a woman into bed.
    The End.

  15. 75
    T. Storla

    It is true that the women in Seattle, or any other city or place, can not be changed but it is possible to leave the USA for a country where the dating environment is friendlier.  I do not really know if I would have been successful in the USA on the dating scene or not since very early on I found American women to be unfeminine in comparison to women from many other countries I visited.  I have been very successful in all the foreign countries that I have lived in or spent a lot of time in without the need to jump through any hoops or play any games. 

  16. 76

    So what you are saying Evan is that successful dating men are superior to women because men can change and adapt and woman cannot?

    In your story of James you told him the women will not change, your advice will not change, match.com will not change.. so it all boils down to this: Men must change  and adapt to attract a woman because women are incapable of changing and adapting to men.

    By your logic, that means men are superior to women because your logic is that change and adaptation are qualities of success. Sticking to one thing and not changing is an inferior quality. That is the message you are telling us using James as the example of an inferior man.

    If I am wrong, please explain to me and James and every other guy out there why it’s the men who have to change and why it’s perfectly normal to expect women not to change and that is okay.

    Thank you.

    1. 76.1

      I think you have misunderstood what Evan says.  I think he has been pretty consistent in saying that women are not going to change men, so if women want something to change in their dating lives, they must make changes themselves, and the same goes for you men.  You aren’t going to change women, so if your love life is not what you want it to be, you must make the changes.  The advice isn’t women vs men, it is the individual vs the larger group.  The individual is not going to change the larger group, he/she can only make changes and adapt.
      An example would be a woman dead set on finding a younger husband, but then gets mad when they are more than happy with a short term relationship, but not interested in long term.  She can get angry and demand that men get in step with the times, but can’t do anything about it when they refuse.  Evan’s advice is pretty consistent.  If she refuses to change, she has nobody to blame but herself if she keeps chasing younger guys and only gets short term commitments.
      The idea is that if a mountain is in your path, it does no good to wish it would change so that your journey won’t be interrupted.  The mountain isn’t going to budge.  You have a choice.  Adapt and go around/over it, or stay where you are at and keep hollering at the mountain, like a fool.

  17. 77

    I read and hear all this criticism of “angry nice guys” and yet not a single person, including this author, ever gives any actual answers, solutions or advice. I feel some sympathy for James since I’ve had pretty rotten “luck” with dating recently, especially online. I’ve met a couple of nice girls, one that seemed like it could have gone somewhere (I moved out the town), but for the most part, my online inbox is full of cobwebs with an occasional response. Most female profiles look more like shopping lists than anything, simply naming every trait they want in a guy: tall, a certain color eyes, certain race, good job, etc.

    I truly believe in the “halo” effect, where an attractive person pretty much can do no wrong no matter what they say or do. For men AND women, especially young, it all comes down to looks, period. People deny it but it’s true. There’s a good chance that ‘ol James is simply an unattractive guy, maybe overweight and frumpy, not blessed with a pretty boy face. There’s about 0% chance he’s a Channing Tatum look-alike. I have friends who are true GQ male model material and they put more effort in tying their shoes than getting dates.

    What gets me is this hypocrisy in modern America, where women can have “standards” but God forbid a man does. It’s perfectly acceptable for women to outright say “I won’t date a guy who’s under 6’ tall” but if a guy says “I won’t date a fat woman” people go ballistic and say he’s shallow. If anything, having a standard about weight is less offensive since a person’s weight is 100% controllable and usually is related to personality traits and lifestyle. You can’t help how short or tall you are. Ironically enough, from my experience, the shorter the woman, the taller the guy has to be.

    I think people should just be themselves. A guy like James could certainly learn to be more positive but aside from that, unless he’s some crazy loon who screams at women or always walks around with a scowl and nasty attitude, there’s not much to change to “attract women”, as if it’s some kind of skill, which it isn’t. If someone doesn’t find you attractive, there isn’t much you can do to change that. Just move on. Most people, men and women, make a determination about someone in seconds and unless the person turns out to be royalty in disguise or something, you can learn all kinds of “tricks” and methods, but in the end, it won’t matter. Much in life can be described through baseball and with relationships, you just have to keep swinging until you hit something. What sucks is that, like in baseball, the chances of success are low so it can be very discouraging.

    Pretty much every great, happy couple I know met each other by chance, whether introduced or met by accident/fate whichever you believe, and didn’t have to really “do” anything special or specific. These dating coaches are foolish to think that meeting the “one” is like some kind of job where you have to do certain things. Society has turned dating into a sort of cruel game and that’s why it’s such a miserable place for most people. Men and women, especially young, have sky high standards that reflect maybe 1% or 5% of the population and they wonder why they can’t meet anyone decent.

    1. 77.1

      ” A guy like James could certainly learn to be more positive but aside from that, unless he’s some crazy loon who screams at women or always walks around with a scowl and nasty attitude, there’s not much to change to “attract women”, as if it’s some kind of skill, which it isn’t.”

      It absolutely is a skill. A skillset, really.

      But the people who don’t see that are the ones who are going to continue to have the least amount of success, I’d wager.

  18. 78

    Although Evan is completely correct in regards to Jame’s poor attitude, I cant help but think it isn’t really his fault. Ultimately, you cant really change who you are deep inside. They way you think, the way you perceive the world is influenced by many factors including genetics and social conditioning. You can change bad habits, but personality is not easily manipulated. I can tell James is a stubborn and individualistic man, probably has a very troubled past that makes him unable to sync with others. He is jaded, unimpressed by the fact that most women he meets cannot relate to him. Men like these live hard lives, and unfortunately their anti social behaviour is taken at face value. I find it surprising that you do not mention anything about acceptance in a relationship, most people don’t because it is interpreted as settling. He just wants someone to accept him the way he is, because I am sure he has tried to change, but running away from who you are is emotonaly draining and dishonest.

  19. 79

    Mr. Coach, I hate to break it you but i think that james fellow DOES have a point. Sure his approach may be wrong. Sure he could learn but the fact is that if you have a certain appearance than you would get a mainly negative experience…
    I do not know how james looks but if for example, if you are a “short” guy than most women would say “no” regardless of your attitude. That is just a fact and that is also shallow!! So in your clients defence when you try and be nice to people and you get attitude because of the hand you are dealt with than it can certainty lead to anger issues. So in that respect, james is right!
    Wouldn’t women get angry too if they were being passed off for let’s say being too “fat”? I am not saying its right but it does indeed sometimes look that the whole dating game is skewed in favor of certain individuals.

  20. 80

    I understand this James guy, the outlook on women, dating and how to approach this. It is very frustrating when it appears women don’t take an interest at all. I see that maybe thats my problem, I believe it truly is me because I did form an unfair prejudice against women because of how most of them do seem to be fickle and unfair as described and its not right of me to do that. Fact is I’ve been single for too long, I don’t understand women at all and what it is that attracts them. I want to get back out there and I want to work on my approach, mainly my lack of confidence. Is there a possibility that maybe you could coach me on how I can work on approaching women and dating? I really want to try again.

  21. 81

    Woman are more complex. I was attracted to all of my dates. Woman’s standards are just too high. They said they had a great time but really meant something else. There is no equality here because they decide if there is a second date. So they are God like. Men don’t decide on the second date.

  22. 82

    I can understand how James feels. I have been stood up on dates, ignored by women, and  unappreciated for things that I do….. But I remember being in relationships with some really great girls and I wasn’t so great in those relationships…. I just recently became ready to settle down and now I need to approach dating with the same patience I was treated with in the past.  Its a process. Each day is a learning experience. I know that there is alot of changes I need to make. I’ve been single for 3 years but have only wanted something serious for the past 6 months.

  23. 83

    The problem is in fact with the women of Seattle.  Go to Texas, Arizona, or anywhere in the south and things are just easy and romance happens naturally without any effort.  But in Seattle, nothing a man can do is good enough.  The fact is, when you accept that enticing job offer from Amazon there is a fair chance you are committing to a life of celibacy.  The locals can’t stand any criticism of their city, but word is getting out that Seattle actually is a pretty awful place.
    I’ve lived in many cities, and it’s very hard to go against the flow of a culture.  What you get is a function of where you are.  If you want an angry entitled woman who can’t make up her mind, come to Seattle.  Any time this is brought up they will try to turn the tables on you, and accuse you of being creepy / stalker / loser, too rich, too poor, too skinny, too fat, too muscular, etc., etc., etc.  You just don’t get this strange attitude anywhere else.  Their final line of defense is typically “sure, you can get a weak subservient women somewhere else, because you can’t handle a strong woman!”.  Never mind that a typical Texas girl is a thousand times more assertive and direct than the passive-aggressive weak women of Seattle.

  24. 84

    Your article suggests as if dating women is the sole mission of men. Sorry to tell you there are different men like James and Me too. There are men whose sole mission is not to date a woman, rather to find a person who is different. Who gives more and asks less. If two such people come in contact, there’s high possibility of compatibility. And sorry to say, it’s usually the women part, who don’t fit in this criteria, because all they want to do from the first day of a relationship is to change men. And that is not to make the men compatible with themselves, but only to prove themselves that they are important as they are able to make the changes in the men. How pathetic. I think almost the entire women gender need to mental reform in order to make people compatible. Seems like since you are a woman, despite being a doctor or whatever your professional name is, you are not doing anything different than what a normal woman would have done. To change the men…  Time to change your profession .. All the best.

  25. 85

     I’m curious, but it seems the main argument of men and women is not one of global generalization. Or even sexist ones but of this idea that local cultures of a city produce a majority demographic that’s say of one type of personality… perhaps James real solution is to move. It’s a action and he couldn’t be bitter about a new place..    you used Seattle as a example, not bye accident but I’m sure because everyone thinks there is a air of snobbery.  It’s like silicone valley where you have to talk the talk and walk the walk. Remember the confusing lingo etc….. basically if you do not fit the dominant culture of a city. And do not like such culture, you might simply be forced to fish from a much smaller pool.    Lastly. How much science on sociology is put into these arguments,  I’ve yet to see a study posted. And I’m sure there is tons supporting both sides

  26. 86
    John Burke

    As a man i found that being kind and intellegent is not a priority for most women.

    1. 86.1
      Karmic Equation

      Most women on this board claim that they don’t care about looks, but rather character.

      That’s a bunch of crock. Looks are part of the “chemistry” that women look for. That’s the truth.

      But a man doesn’t need to be handsome or thin. He just have to have a nice features behaves confidently, and dress decently (as in no track suits on dates :)). But if he’s fat or cross-eyed, or is otherwise good looking but behaves in an insecure way, “chemistry” is killed.

      I had one date with the latter. He was fit, good looking, but because he acted under-confidently, by the end of the date, he looked average instead of “cute” to me. I was willing to have a second date, but he accused me of being player because I didn’t answer his texts immediately. On the one hand, I was flattered that he thought me attractive enough to be a player. OTOH, I felt sorry for him because he spent the conversation talking about his money and how women took advantage of it. I was thinking, well maybe you shouldn’t be talking about how much money you make with a woman you barely know.

      I had another guy, a friend of a friend, fb friend me. He was cute, so I accepted the request. We texted some and had a few telephone conversations, and he too talked a lot about money.

      To me, these guys were trying to impress me with their money. I make plenty of money on my own, so a guy making money doesn’t impress me at all. All I could think of was that he was trying to buy my affection and/or he was trying to impress. Doesn’t work on women with money. It would work for women without, but they were setting themselves up to be used.

      Save the money talk until she’s agreed to be your girlfriend. Until then, whether you’re a man or a woman, you shouldn’t talk about money on dates, imho.

      1. 86.1.1

        I went on a first date with a guy who didn’t dress well, had several huge moles on his face, whose eyes were small and close-set. He also lacked even an iota of charisma. I felt ZERO chemistry for him.

        However, he and I had had an amazing email exchange before meeting in person so I accepted another date with him. Because of the personality revealed in those emails, I continued to give him a chance. I ended up dating him for close to a year and falling in love with him. We broke up bc he moved across the country but, believe me, not all women need a man with confidence and decent features to ~ eventually ~ feel chemistry and fall in love.

        1. Karmic Equation

          You’re a better woman than most, Henriette :)

          As EMK often says, “The exception doesn’t disprove the rule.”

          I always assume these guys complaining about women not valuing their intelligence or kindness are average to below average in looks or build…and the women they’re complaining about are ones well above their league, meaning if they’re 4s, they’re complaining about the 7 and aboves.

          Usually, and I believe EMK cited the study (can’t remember for sure), relationships work best when the woman in the relationship is better looking than the guy. I’ve always interpreted this to mean at most 1-league of looks disparity. A 4 guy rarely gets a chance at a 10, unless it’s in a teen movie or he’s stinking rich. And I assume that most guys who write on this board to complain about choosy women are not stinking rich either.

  27. 87

    I’m better in some ways, naughtier in others, @KE. :)

    Honestly, I don’t consider myself virtuous for dating a guy I at first found ugly; I’m simply not at all a “visual” person. I can be nit-picky, difficult, neurotic in other ways but I’m one of those women for whom chemistry truly can grow from a 0 to an 8, if the personality & character are good.

    In the case mentioned above, when we met I was intrigued by the disparity btwn the man’s thoughtful, articulate emails and his unappealing exterior. I agree that I might well be unusual but I wanted to give a truthful counterpoint to your assertion that it’s a “bunch of crock” that women care about personality and not looks. Some do, others don’t.

    As far as the “spread” btwn the looks of those dating: I have no idea what score my looks would rate. I do know that when this guy and I were dating, people would make comments to us as a couple that I found hurtful and insulting on his behalf, even tho’ I suspect that they were meant to flatter me*… things like, “what’s a guy like THAT doing with YOU?” or ” Wow, when you said you were waiting for your boyfriend and this guy walked into the restaurant, I thought, well that certainly can’t be him.” Funny thing is, once I got to know him, I still didn’t think he was handsome, per se, but found him deeply attractive and wildly sexy. Far more so than most of the pretty boys I’d see around town. Anyway, I ended up caring for him more deeply than he cared for me. Go figure.

    *Hint to everyone reading; a nice, kind woman will not find it flattering when you insinuate that she could “do better” than her boyfriend. She picked him for a reason.

    1. 87.1
      Karmic Equation

      You’re the exception to the rule, as I said :)

      I personally have never gone from 0 to 8 in chemistry. I’ve gone from neutral (would that be considered a 5, I wonder) to 10 probably. 0 to me would be revulsion not neutrality :)

      Current bf is that way. I would say I thought he was “Ok” when I first noticed him but found him more and more attractive as he pursued me harder and harder. I guess “effort” jumpstarts my attraction to men as character and personality jumpstarts yours. But I am very visual, not surprising as I almost naturally “think like a guy” and we know how visual guys are. haha So looks do matter to me. He could pursue me like a bat out of hell, but if he doesn’t appeal to me visually, then I might become more creeped out than flattered and interested.

      Sorry you lost him, Henriette. You’ll find another gem, I’m sure :)

  28. 88

    No evan you seem to be incapable of handling “facts” i can find evidence over the web stating to opposite. I’d link some of them but i cant from my phone. But google does wonders.

    Except when men like me opt out in mass numbers (and we are,) we start to look like what Japan looks like today. You are working on a theory that there is an infinite number of partners out there and everyone of us wants different things. This is not true at all, there area finite number of men and most of us want similar things in a relationship.

    Like i said the false figures thrown out are by you. I bet you even believe 1 in 4 college girls will be victims of sexual assault too right?

    No your missing the key fact to my divorce statistics and that is the main reason why I’m going MGTOW. 80% of divorces are initiated by women and 90% ends up wuth the men getting hosed. Now tell me as a man what is so attractive about that?

    People become smarter by arming themselves with truth, not lies that you seem to ne happy spreading around.

    Feminism today is not about equality. Its about the domination of the matriarchy. It used to ne about equality at one point, but when they got it they kept pushing for more. And there can never be true equality amongst the sexes. Why? Because both sexes are BORN different. The old system that lasted for thousands of years understood this. Feminism does not. The old system understood men are men, and women were women.

    Lastly, i do not hate women at all. Quite the contrary, i love the feminine figure. Women are extremely gorgeous, but i i can’t stand the attitude of the modern woman.

    1. 88.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Sorry, Kpak. You are discussing this with the wrong guy.

      When you’re dealing with partnership on a mass scale, yes, there might as well be an infinite number of partners. To this day, most people who want to get married do get married.

      You are just a victim of the confirmation bias, where you seek out information that validates your perspective – even if it’s false. So the divorce rate isn’t 60% but closer to 1/3 of that for educated adults. And 80% of women are married by the time they’re 40; they’re not piling up like cordwood on the side of the road because of guys like you opting out.

      As far as my thoughts on the 1 in 4 statistic, I don’t know what to believe and recently wrestled with that here.

      As far as your divorce statistics, you are again revealing your blind spot and bias. First of all, I heard women initiate 2/3 of divorces, not 4/5ths. But did you ever stop to consider why? Maybe because their husbands are emotionally unavailable, selfish, busy, don’t help out with housework or childrearing, verbally or physically abusive, unfaithful, or insensitive to be good partners. Men – like you – who think that women are only good for sex? Guess what? Women don’t want men like that. They want partners – and the best husbands are – you guessed it – sensitive to their wives emotional cues and help out with housework and childrearing.

      Your last line is laughable: “I don’t hate women; I love the feminine figure.” If there is an epitaph for sad MGTOWs who die old alone, you’ve just written it, my friend.

      I’m not sure if you’ll ever realize that I have a healthier grasp on reality than you do – because I’m the one in between feminists and MGOTWs, I’m the one who concedes the validity of both sides and calls out their blind spots, and I’m the one with the happy marriage. But if your stance is bringing you joy and you feel truly emotionally fulfilled by your hatred of “the modern women,” God bless you. Have a blast.

      1. 88.1.1

        I believe I saw a study somewhere where it said the divorce initiation rate was much closer to 50/50 in states where shared custody is presumed. I need to find it.

  29. 89

    this article is crap. no shit men won’t think well of women if his every single experience is the same. it’s like saying if you get burned by a hot stove after trying it 3 times, try it over and over until you don’t feel the burn anymore because you never know when you’ll find a stove that doesn’t burn when you touch it. yes of course you won’t feel the burn at some point:when the nerves in your hand are all gone. don’t you see? when men don’t value their previous experiences anymore it’s because they don’t care anymore about the consequences of their actions. they stop caring because there is no negative consequence anymore, aka they are numb to emotions so they won’t feel pain when he comes across yet another scummy woman. this is why so many women find a decent man and then complain that he’s not emotionally available. no fucking shit he’s not emotionally available because to attract you in the first place he had to lose his ability to feel things.
    this isn’t rocket science just basic psychology. women are training men to be psychopathic, and that’s why you see such a disconnect. the sad thing is women will never put on their big girl panties and actually put in the effort to find quality men. oh i’m bigoted you say? just going by the facts, you’ll find me very much accommodating if i do meet a nice girl who doesn’t fit into the box. men’s anger towards women goes away in an instant the moment she provides some real life evidence that she’s different. truth is they just don’t value men enough to want to show them otherwise, they want the men to do literally everything. what happened to equality?

    1. 89.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Written like a guy who thinks that dating is like touching a hot stove. It’s not.

      You are a guy who calls women “scummy”. You are a guy who justifies being emotionally unavailable. You are a guy who thinks that it’s okay to be angry at an entire gender.

      You know what you sound like? The very women you hate.

      Chew on that for awhile, learn to be a better man and choose better women, and then come back when you’re done rationalizing your failures. Women don’t owe you anything. If you want to do well with women, you have to be what women want – a nice guy with balls. You sound like an angry, castrated man who blames others for his lot in life.

      1. 89.1.1

        Evan, you’re just as guilty of confirmation bias. That’s not a point worth arguing because the real facts aren’t found easily in a pile of statistics that spell it out every which way.

        I’ve noticed you drilling into some of these posters bases on false assumptions. Perhaps, using a false assumption of my own, because you spend so much time around women you’re beginning to think and debate like them. I wouldn’t draw an ignorant assumption like that, ad hominem attacks weaken ones stance. Assuming from a few posted opinions in a few paragraphs of text that some of these posters must refer to women as “scummy”, or use other derogatory language in referring to women is absurd. They may use shortcuts to describe women in general, meaning not necessarily all, but most. (because most women leaving much to be desired would not be an understatement, and perhaps that’s the same for men) They aren’t stupid, you’re not stupid. If they meant all, then they wouldn’t be here.


        What about women that call men pigs, creepy, stalkers, scum, etc? I saw,one poster that said he/she never heard that themselves or from anyone they know. So because in that tiny world it never occurred then it must not occur anywhere? That the most ludicrous, insane, self absorbed rationale possible.

        Women, particularly younger women, make those statements often without thinking about what they actually mean and what the consequences could be. They define those words by what they feel they should mean. They are trying to describe that the man is not their type, but by using that language about these guys to or in front of other people unjustly describes the guy. Often she knows nothing about him other than she didn’t like his approach, appearance or whatever, which is fine, except none of those terms describe anything about the guy and are used without thinking to describe some feeling that apparently she never learned to describe using actual descriptive words that convey that meaning. It’s lazy and disgusting. Don’t defend it.

        It’s in your best interest as a dating coach to play down the problem and make it seem simply solvable. The reality is there are a load of people with requirements for a partner that are incongruent with what they are offering, and they are both too stupid to give each other a chance and help each other grow. Hence why the title of this article is almost accurate. It should read, “Why Certain People Will Never Do Well With The Opposite Sex”, and should detail more about the shortcomings of both sexes. Instead you shot for the profemale feminist controversy and try to defend the garbage. One sided advice doesn’t help anybody. Pudding with symptoms may appear to help for a bit and may aid in solving the cause, but it will be a recurring is due until the cause is exposed and dealt with. The causes? Many. Don’t be self righteous pricks.

        1. DeeGee

          rawr said: “this article is crap.

          Wow.  Hurtbags much?

          rawr said: “men won’t think well of women if his every single experience is the same.

          If every experience is the same, look for the common denominator.  No, I meant you. Unless you are continually asking out the same one woman, in which case refer to the quote given near the end of this post.

          Even though I often get a similar response as to why a woman is not interested in me romantically, I wouldn’t say the experience is the same, as each one was a different woman.  The end result was the same (I’m still single), but not the experience (some were mutual agreement, some were very kind, some stayed friends, some showed they were a little crazy on the second date, etc.).

          rawr said: “women are training men to be psychopathic

          So all of the women on the planet had a secret meeting to plan all of this, and we weren’t invited?  Drats.

          I don’t know any psychopathic men (abnormal or violent social behavior) who became that way from dating women.

          If a few bad dates or a hot stove where you tried over and over caused this psychopathy, then how do you know your psychopathy wasn’t from something earlier in your life, like all of the times you tried to walk as an infant and fell, over and over.
          Oh right, but you can’t blame someone else in that scenario.

          I’ll quote Einstein: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
          Try changing what you are doing in your dating.

          Folwart said: “What about women that call men pigs, creepy, stalkers, scum, etc?

          I’m sure there are people on the outer fringes of both sides who are bitter and resort to name calling of the opposite sex.
          I personally have never heard a woman call a man that who didn’t deserve it.  And I know a fair number of women.
          The only women I have heard call men names like that are those women who I know were actually abused (physically or sexually) but they also tended to be quite private about that and the name calling until they became good friends and confided.
          The majority of women I know are nice.

  30. 90

    This is the problem right there to keep as many options possible. Options takes out the urge to demand and going after what you want.

    I am not saying that I wouldn’t even talk to different girl but woman of my interest has my single minded attention and its how I get to notice things without even need to tell me. It’s like someone handing you glass of water without you saying so in a hot summer day. (You can’t do this over and over again though)

    Tell me if you have paid attention to specific topic in some subject and you get to explain it to someone else. Would you need a book? Would you need to think what to tell next?

    How many times you remembered something about a girl and gave the order according to it on a second date. Paying attention will make you move faster naturally as you notice and know something about girl, what is the next thing you want to know and how can you get to know it? Focus bring direction or else it will be going round and round and round in a circle.

    Never be a friend of a girl you like, being friendly and being actual friend are different things. Being friend for the long time will kill it. Girl needs to feel that you are there because you are interested in her so she makes no mistake in understanding your motive and yet feels comfortable around you. This can save you a ton of time man. Be the guy who makes her feel threatened in Sexual way (mentally not physically). When is the last time you presented yourself so well that she just couldn’t understand what to say or how to react and simply froze? Too much comfort is NOT A GOOD SIGN as a Sexual partner in early stage.

    Don’t wait for positive signals, just tell your motive right from the very beginning. Don’t wait if you know what you want with her. Do you wait for a friendship in bar or pub?

    Let your heart guide you, make a story to tell how you guys fall in love. Don’t make it common like oh we see each other at this and we met, date and fell in love. It’s not a love story but merely a convenience story. They selected each other because there was no options available.

    All of the dating techniques want you to believe that a diamond will come to you, if you be aloof or hush washy about your intention, wait for her to reciprocate the nice gestures, making sure she replies and on and on and on.

    Shut up, you want a diamond go get her. Pursue ruthlessly but with self respect and respecting her choice (must if she SAYS no it is no, move on). She doesn’t tell you anything, you tell her “yeah, I like you or love you. Do you have problem with that?” Stare at her body, Stare right into her eyes, touch her appropriately as many times as you want, tell her if she got sexy ass or whatever, tell her she drives you nuts, call her crazy or bitch or whatever wink, smile and be fun around her and WITH OTHERS. Don’t be afraid to offend her. Don’t be afraid to fight with her.

    Man in reality you don’t even have to have sleep with her or go on dozen dates to make her fall for you. Just don’t follow the bs dating techniques. Remember if you can charm up an old lady or other male and make them feel good about themselves naturally, you don’t need any techniques.

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