Video: Do Men Owe Women An Apology?

A friend of mine posted this video on her Facebook page the other day. I watched it from beginning to end and wasn’t sure what to think.

On one hand, the clip is filled with heartwarming, earnest sentiments. Truly, if the world were filled with more men like this, dating would be a breeze.

On the other hand, is this really how we want our men to sound? Which is to say, very much like women…

Personally, I dig the message and agree that men can become a whole lot better at relating to women. I’m just not sure that I would really enjoy hanging out with these kinds of guys myself.

I’d love to hear your thoughts. Do you like sensitive, spiritual, new age guys?

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78 Comments »Filed Under Understanding Men

78 Responses to “Video: Do Men Owe Women An Apology?”

fusciah 1

This video with all these apologies to women, assumes only women have been abused. Any women who has not been able to overcome hurt in her life from a man or anyone would find this sentiment attractive.

I know this is a self help website for women but what about men who have been hurt or abused by women either as a child or an adult?

I think men and women are Loved & Hurt equally in relationships.

This is how we grow. So Forgive, Live, Love and know that once you reach a certain age, no one can do anything too you without your permission, that is the basis of all relationships.
Gem 2

I don’t get it. I really don’t understand the point. At all.
If their goal is for a future ideology of “worhsiping the divine in each other”….fine, okay, if that’s what you’re into….

But no, I do not think that men as a gender need to apologize to women as a gender in order for the above to take place.
That’s ridiculous. I believe in individuals.
If someone has wronged another, apologize to that person.

I don’t believe men as a group owe me any apologies or special treatment for anything that an individual man may have done to me in my past and I don’t want to be raised up as some divine, spiritual being deserving of worship by men who have come to recognize thier feminine side. I personally found the video bizarre.

I love the differences in men and women and think we should celebrate and respect them and treat each other with integrity. Period.
Steve 3

It is not my intention to be sarcastic or offensive. This youtube reminded me of videos of the forced confessions of American POWs during the Vietnam War. A lot of ideological catch phrases mixed in with broken men apologizing for being who and what they are. In this case, the speakers were apologizing for being men and being masculine.

In my opinion that may win them the platonic friendships of the students in the local Women’s Studies class, but it is less likely to win these kinds of men girlfriends or win them a sense of fulfillment in their lives.

The syrup spoken in this video may feel temporarily gratifying to women who just got a snootfull of disrespect, but like Evan who isn’t sure if he would want to be friends with these men, I don’t think many women would find the personalities of these men attractive. Self hatred or self non-acceptance is a real turn off.

These guys need to learn to distinguish the difference between respecting women and internalizing a lot of man hating flotsam.

I know it is unlikely for a person to read an entire book that opposes their views, but I recommend “No More Mr. Nice Guy” by Dr. Robert Glover to anyone who thinks men should think 24/7 like the guys in this video.
Blue 4

Can you imagine the forward movement the world would take if every, single person acknowledged the thoughts, feelings and emotions in this video.

I, personally, am moved to tears because of this video and have big hopes for more movement in this direction.

As for being attracted to men who speak in this manner (however you want to label it) I am not sure as I have never encountered a man, such as this, in my dating endeavors. I feel open to it.
Venus 5

I loved it! Nobody’s perfect and there may never be a perfect synchronization of the sexes but this is an acknowledgement that it could be better, that it should be better.

Now it is time for a similar apology from women to men because we are not faultless!
Erthy 6

Wow!!

These men are thoughtful, loving, STRONG, CAPABLE, responsible, sexy, trustworthy, selfless, humble, fearless, other-centred, intuitive, authoritative, reliable, and understanding.

This makes then VERY MASCULINE AND VERY IMPRESSIVE.
Theresa H 7

on one hand – I appreciated the overall sentiment and on some level found it quite reassuring that men could be so thoughtful / articulate as there is still a little warped part of me that worries that “all men are bastards”….the whole presentation of the video was a little creepy though…..as if there was some sublimnal message designed to brainwash us and its been put out there by a cult…the music didnt help
xx
SS 8

In theory, this video was great.

However, I don’t know any men who act, think or sound like this at all. And I surmise that a few actors were paid to say these words…

I appreciate the sentiment, but I know wonderful men who think highly of women and treat them very well who would never express themselves this way. They are masculine men who appreciate feminine energy but aren’t trying to co-opt feminine energy. They believe in respecting women simply because they are good men who are secure in themselves.

Also, I have dated a few men who seem to say the right things and fit into this uber-sensitive, evolved man role. They ultimately turned out to be the most narcissistic, self-absorbed people I ever met, and their supposed appreciation and respect for women was almost nil. They just were playing the new-age sensitive man role, but they were as jerky as the macho, boorish guys… if not worse.
Sayanta 9

I personally like the message(Mutual) respect for each other in a spiritual context, but not the presentation. Kind of cultish and weird
Gem 10

I still don’t get why men should have to apologize for being a man or why a woman should have to apologize for being a woman. I’ll apologize to someone, man, or woman if I screw up and wrong them. As a woman, I feel no need to apologize for my entire gender and to accept that these men feel I need this from them makes me feel icky. Like I’m a justified man-hater that needs to be coaxed back into their loving care.

The rest of their message, -let’s come together and work together to be the best we can be, yada, yada - is all well and good.

But personally, the New Age, sensitive, touchy-feely man is a turn off. Give me a man’s man: The Marlboro man - minus the cigarettes, LOL.
Angel 11

Loved it and have respect for the men who made it. Doubt if any of these fine men live this way or talk this way all of the time, but am proud of them for making this video. However, in my opinion, they are not the ones who owe the apology, but the rats that actually do those things are! And yes, have to agree, some women should also make one! As for dating a man like that, you bet I would! In fact, there were a couple in the video you can send my way.
Selena 12

A little “new-agey” goes a long way with me, I don’t seek it out. I don’t want to be apologized to by men I don’t know. I’d like to hear a couple ex’s of mine apologize to me for their previous “dirty deeds” though. Ha!
starthrower68 13

I am all for men behaving with integrity and character but this smacks of some sort of new age further emasculation of men.
Jennifer 14

Evan,

I’m sorry that I am being unfair here: honestly I couldn’t get past the first 10 seconds. I turned it off. I was creeped out.

So, to answer your question…..No, I don’t want to hang out with guys like these.

Jennifer
Ruby 15

A bit hokey, and overly warm n’ fuzzy in presentation, but if you think about all the ways that women have been, and continue to be, abused and subjugated by men (domestic violence, rape, genital mutilation, to name but a few), wouldn’t it be great if more men did embrace these sentiments?

On a personal level, I’m not into new-agey stuff, but I do appreciate men who can convey sensitivity. Especially the hot ones.
melie 16

Very interesting! Definitely new age in it’s personna. I value sensitive and spiritual men! However, I also value Judeo/Christian values and them integrated into the sensitive and God centered: not just in a male I am pursuing a relationship with but also in my female friends. I find the video intriguing, and beguiling in that it is a very humanistic, anhimistic approach to forgiveness and cleansing.
Sandra 17

Yes, about time. I think it’s amazing.
Kit 18

Definitely felt creeped out by the presentation, not going to lie. The men were reasonably physically attractive and the words resonated in different places, but the robotic delivery didn’t carry the sincerity or warmth I would need to take it seriously.
In one place, I pictured a really tough looking marine delivering the same overall message of loving women and respecting the gift of femininity but with his own words and style. Definite improvement.
Steve 19

@Gem #10
I think you about nailed it. I worked in a hippy-dippy place during college. I got to know a few men who wore the “feminist-sensitive-man” label on their sleeves. In general they didn’t have any guys as friends, were a bit self loathing, passive aggressive, often weren’t successful with women, but when they were guys who got dates it was because they were using the “feminist-sensitive-man” as their shtick to get women into bed.
@starthrower68 #13
You wrote in two lines what I took a few paragraphs to try to say. Ditto!
Cory 20

I do not want to waste time saying the obvious, that men and women should be equal partners and so on. Of course. But men and women are different in many ways, some wonderful and complementary ways, and we should celebrate the male and female nature. Unfortunately, society has ravaged the notion of manhood and feminized men, and women will reap the rewards of that with so-called “men” like these. I strongly encourage anyone who cares about this sort of thing and is raising children to read an older but outstanding book “The War Against Boys”
Andrea 21

I’m not going to lie, I found the video pretty… awkward? I can appreciate a sensitivity, but I think it’s more so the “presentation” of the video. I feel like their voices and the music sound in the background could be found in a Charity or Rehab Program ad. I’d rather hear this sort of stuff in a college women’s studies class, in a more casual way– not in a youtube video.
Steve 22

As a man with many women friends over the years, I can say from experience that even when women think they are attracted to a man like this, maybe even start building a life with one, eventually something deep inside of them that still knows the real nature of men and women wakes up, and they find themselves deeply dissatisfied. We have become so enlightened over the past what, couple hundred years at best? But men and women have been men and women for hundreds of thousands or millions of years? Why do we try so hard to deny nature? Ditto everything everyone else has said about men appreciating women and so on, but ignoring our basic nature is not wise.
starthrower68 23

@Selena #12,

I agree with you. While I appreciate the intent behind the video, these men are not responsible for the ones who insist on lousy behavior. And these men, while I might certainly be friends with them, are no more attractive to me as a romatic partner than “masculine” women are to men. I spend enough time being chief cook, bottle washer, breadwinner, etc, that the last thing I want in a man is one with whom I feel more manly.
Katie 24

I was rolling my eyes and thinking “oh GAWD” after the first few seconds, but in the spirit of keeping an open mind, I played to the whole thing. I say played, because I found myself more interested in reading the responses than watching the video.
It seemed full of insincere cliches and I felt put on a pedestal and therefore distanced from these men rather than closer, which I think is what an apology should do. Of, course, I agree with some of the above sentiments that no entire group owes any other entire group an apology for actions taken by individuals.
Not that I don’t think sex and love and sprituality and peace can’t be cocreated by all people or members of each gender can’t learn from each other. I just think this was not an effective message.
Sayanta 25

Steve, #22-

I’m not crazy about the presentation of this vid, like I said. But what do you mean, deny nature? I’m not railing against masculinity or male energy, but I think many many many men need to learn to be more communicative and to treat women with respect. Which is what the message of this vid is, even though it got lost in New Agey cultish music and words.
Kirsten 26

I tried to watch this video but couldn’t make it past the first 15 sec…it seemed a bit off and contrived. But I find it odd that there seems to be a wave of this going around. Just this morning, a friend of mine forwarded me this link http://youtu.be/XljZf0CVbgY , as I am almost four years out of a difficult divorce and not dating anyone (funny how everyone assumes you are a man-hater with issues if you are divorced and not in another relationship pretty much instantly). Anyhow, I have a mixed response to it, because although I couldn’t make it through your video (it just bothers me too much to see two individual guys attempting to apologize on behalf of other dudes everywhere…like what did they ever do to me?), this other link (to a poem set to music, that doesn’t have individual men speaking an apology, but instead sort of lets you imagine a former significant man in your life apologizing for himself) did in fact make me feel better ofr some reason.

Maybe it’s because that’s as good of an apology as some of us are ever going to get. It’s like the movie “It’s Complicated” when Meryl Streep says, “How far back does that ‘sorry’ go?” and Alec Baldwin replies,”How far back do you need it to go?”….hahaha.

Truthfully, we women could stand to apologize for all the times we’ve been crazed, jealous, nagging and harping biatches. But ultimately, it bothers me when anyone- male or female- apologizes profusely for things as a matter of general discourse. That type of apologetic communication style just seems disingenuine.

And I don’t date these sensitive, new-age type of guys but maybe that’s what I’m doing wrong (and probably why my friend forwarded me the link.)
Venus 27

I take this video in the spirit in which it is being proffered. It’s true that the men in the video are not responsible for the many atrocities against women but they are simply acknowledging that what has happened was wrong. Isn’t this what the feminist movement was about? Shifting perceptions on the woman’s role and place in society. Elevating them to a position of equality, freeing them from the subservience hoisted upon them by religion and societal norms.

I see the video as an acknowledgement that is long overdue. Some of it is perhaps misplaced – like the apologizing for things that are dictated by the testosterone driven male psyche – the drive to succeed, drive to dominate, drive to protect which taken to another degree results in the wars that these guys were apologizing for. But hey, if we can remove some of the soppiness and tone it down a notch it would make a great social studies discussion for eighth graders.

Why should women apologize? How about I apologize for being an emasculating bitch in the boardroom but this was the only way to get you to accept me as your boss. Apologize for depriving you of your rights as a father because I was angry and resentful with you for moving on so quickly after the divorce… lol I know there are many more. (And no, those two apologies do not apply to me but I have seen women who do this.)
Gem 28

I agree Steve. The men I’ve known who were super in touch with their feminine side, and were very sensitive and gentle, were coupled with ball-busting women who controlled the heck out of them. There is such a thing as overdoing it. The videos message seems to say that there is something inherently wrong with masculinity that needs to apologized for and that is not attractive.
Shouraku 29

“I believe in treating women with the utmost respect, love, and kindness. I cherish you all………………………..Wanna go to the bar with me on Thursday and knock back a few?”
All joking aside, this video reminded me of an overly complex pickup line. Not the sentiment behind their words (which I do appreciate), but in the very generic delivery.
What would impress me would be a man saying something to the effect of: “I personally treated women poorly in the past. I understand how my behavior was wrong and hurtful and I plan never to act in such an inappropriate manner ever again.”
I believe that an individual feeling regret for his or her own behavior is one thing, but a person who is apologizing for an entire sex just comes off as belittling and overly generic. This makes it hard for me to take this video seriously.
EE 30

@Kit 18

I agree. These men are not saying this stuff with intent. They mostly appear passionless and insipid so the whole thing comes off as contrived, which then sets off the “are they trying to sell me something?” alarm bells. That is where the creepiness comes from.

The content, notions of a blanket apology for the past misdeeds of 50% of the world, and notion that someone can OWN someone elses mistakes are all separate topics on their own. Even without going there, the message is not delivered in a way that gives it any meaning.
JoAnn 31

There are pieces of this video that correlate with my own opinions, but it still seems contrived to me. It would be more meaningful if in ‘regular’ conversational words, and without the spiritual overtones. I think of the ‘best’ men I know, like and admire, and cannot picture them in the above group. Whatever its source or intent, if feels like a con, to persuade me to drop defenses and buy into something without much questioning. It also seems to imply that it is a response to what all women would want. Oops – all women are individuals. Put me down as a skeptic.
maria 32

I loved every second of this video!!! These men display a level of enlightenment over the way women have been oppressed for Millennia that makes me want to cry!!!
THEY GET IT! THEY GET IT! THEY GET IT!
I would love to date each and every one of them. With all due respect, if all men were like this Evan, you would be out of business. You would not have to constantly massage all of us into dealing with the reality of how cruel, selfish, shallow and nasty men really are!

I am in love with this video and the men in it!! I am quite sure that they all have their “real guy” moments. But just the fact that they cared enough about women to make this video makes me HAPPY!

THANK YOU!!!!
Zann 33

Truth-be-told, it felt manipulative, paternalistic, and condescending. “Mood music,” birds in flight, and the classic drop of water & rippling effect …. Oh please.

Maybe I am jaded and cynical, but I always say: Beware the New Age Man. I’m an old feminist; but even so, I’ll take the out-front, unpretentious, unapologetic womanizer any day over the faux-feminist guy, spouting the sensitivity jargon he’s learned, posing as the great equalizer, when really he’s got no idea (nor does he want to learn) how to live with and love a woman with genuine respect, appreciating her strengths, as well as her “otherness.”

Placing women on a pedestal won’t get us anywhere. It makes us sound like delicate creatures, when what we are is “reasonable creatures” (disclosure: I stole that phrase from a Katha Pollit book of essays.) Bottom line: all life should be revered, period. And people who are power hungry and cruel need to apologize to people they hurt..male or female.

I think masculinity often gets mistaken for chauvinism, and they are distinct. A man has no control over the fact that he was born male, so why apologize for his gender as a whole? It’s futile and empty. There were a couple of excellent political points made, though, like the chauvinism of war and territorial aggression, disrespect for the environment, and the fact that men have primarily been the heads of state/power, heads of trade and industry throughout most of known history. I just wish these acknowledgements could have been made in a more straightforward manner. Without the touchy-feely, Jonathon Livingston Seagull-ishness.

And to answer your question, Even — I do not want to hang out with any of these dudes.
dave 34

These men need to grow a pair. I feel nauseated already.
Tina 35

Honestly? Pardon the juvenile sound of this, but I found the guys creepy and couldn’t sit through the video. Or perhaps I simply believe that the world is full of great guys and not so great guys, and don’t feel a need to listen to it. It’s not terrible, what they’re saying, it’s just that I personally don’t go for the fluffy type. (And anyway, fluffy guys certainly don’t exist here in the Mediterranean!)
Ron 36

I have seen this posted on facebook and replied that I am done apologizing for the collective masculine. It is time to move on rather than dwell on past wounds. I feel this applies to women as well as men. These men would make good girlfriends but as David Deida would ask.”Where is the polarity”?
Steve 37

Youtube videos have a button for people to vote whether or not they like a video. The tally is displayed under the video with the number of views. I found it interesting that these men who were equating everything wrong with men, domination and the use of force disabled the ability of people to express themselves by voting for the video up or down. How manly of them.
lux aeterna 38

This is just too weird. No one can take responsibility for other people’s actions, or apologize for them. Like a previous poster said, it would be a lot more heartwarming if these men apologized for their own misdeeds against women, like ‘I treated my wife/boss/mother/girlfriend badly, I’m truly sorry.’
As for dating new age men, well.. it depends on the man. I know some hippie types who are into vegetarianism, yoga, music festivals, alternative healing and all that, but still retain their masculine energy. So it all comes down to whether we are interested in men who put women on a pedestal while feeling down about their own masculinity. The answer for me is a clear NO.
A little while ago I met a very soft and loving man online. However I soon lost interest because I noticed that his submissive personality brought out too much of my own masculinity. I felt like I was the guy… I became the overly assertive one, and I never really felt I found the strong cave-man in him who could protect me on that very primitive animalistic level. If I don’t get a sense of testosterone in a man he seems genderless to me, rather than feminine. I lose all sexual interest.
I think the best advice to men is to embrace their masculinity to the full, but be self aware and act responsibly when their testosterone takes over and fuels their fires in ways that might be damaging to their environment. That’s how I’d raise my sons to be if I had any!
Melissa 39

creepy in my opinion…..artificial, almost like stepford husbands lol. I would honestly have to say I would be turned off by these kind of men. probably cause I would assume it’s fake
SS 40

Maybe I am jaded and cynical, but I always say: Beware the New Age Man.

Gotta agree… and this is coming from someone who embraced old-school feminism in college and was thrilled to meet and get involved with a sensitive, New Age man.

Well, my New Age man didn’t like conflict and argument. So once, when he was angry at me, his way of handling conflict was simply to avoid it and lock me out of his apartment until he was ready to talk. Never mind that I had gotten up at his place that day to go to work and missed some of his phone calls because I was assisting my parents with something… I called and told him I was on my way back and because he didn’t want to “lash out” (for WHAT?) at me, he simply didn’t answer my calls, hid his car in a different parking lot so I wouldn’t see that he was home and put on the deadbolt so that when I showed up, I couldn’t use the key to get in.

I’ve dealt with some not-so-great dudes before, but never did any of the non-sensitive men do anything remotely as terrible as that. But oh, Mr. New Age said this was his away of “avoiding arguments” and “negative energy.”

When we broke up and I offered to come by his place quickly to pick up my things, he said he didn’t think that would be a great idea because it could “get ugly.” I had no intentions of “getting ugly,” I just wanted my stuff. He said he’d get back to me… two days later, a big box arrived at my home full of my things and a note talking about how he loved me and forgave me and forgave himself for any wrong that might have been enabled by the universe or some BS like that.

Ugh… just thinking of that guy makes me so thankful for finding the TOTAL opposite in my husband! Every conservative, traditionalist, golf-playing inch of him! LOL
Leslie 41

I would not want to hang out with or date these guys. I don’t want a man with feminine energy. If I was attracted to feminine energy.. I’d date a girl?
And as for masculine men committing atrocities against women, that’s a general human thing, not a man thing. Both men and women commit atrocities and for every bad guy there is a great guy outthere as well. Women against men, women against women (especially to win the approval of other women and men) and women against their children. So it the solution that there is too much feminine energy in us and we should become more like men? Their point makes zero sense to me. All relationships are about celebrating the differences and learning to get along, not becoming copies of each other so that we are exactly the same, have no differences, and hence never experience conflict.
chihsarah 42

I like the statement and I think it is the right direction we, as a human race, should be heading as living conscious men and women. Although the production and the casting can do better. Nevertheless, it makes me smile to know that these men have the courage and initiative to be part of the film even though I can sense that not all of them quite get the concept at a deeper level.
Should ‘men’ apologize to ‘women?” hm…. that’s a complicated question in a sense of reincarnation if you believe in it that we once were men and also women at one point of time. We all did wrong to each other at a point of time. So I guess we all need to be apologizing to each other. Then we embrace, then we love. Yeepee.
Steve 43

@Zan #33
A man has no control over the fact that he was born male, so why apologize for his gender as a whole?

I think the concept of people apologizing for who they are rather than what they as individuals actually did is just flat out toxic.

I think masculinity often gets mistaken for chauvinism, and they are distinct.

Bravo! That is what I was trying to articulate in my earlier comments, but you did it more clearly and succinctly.
DFL 44

@Steve 37:
Knowing the cesspit that is Youtube commenters, I’m not at all surprised and would have done the same.
Selena 45

@Steve #37

Wow. That is odd. Hmm.
Kevin 46

I know what people mean about them coming over a bit wimpy. But I don’t see that as the totality of who they are, I see it as them owning their part in the male hegemony and acknowledging the impact of that, both on men and women, and thus creating a space for something new. The something new is what’s contained in their declaration of honouring the feminine, etc.

In my view how people will experience the video is all about their filters and their level of consciousness. The Tarzan and Jane school (both genders) won’t get it, clearly. And anyone who says, “Why are they apologising for being male?” is missing the point, cos they’re aren’t, and anyone who says, “Why are they apologising for being masculine?” is also missing the point, cos they ain’t doing that either.

They’re apologising for the actions and impact of the *unconscious* masculine. For me this is inspiring, because it helps me to become aware of and own how that shows up in me, and when I own it it becomes far less powerful in running my life, and thus creates a space for me to relate to women in a more conscious way. Which is what I’m actually committed to.
Steve 47

@DFL #44
I had the same thought.
Those men didn’t disable comments, the set comments for that video to be moderated. What they did disable was the ability of viewers to vote on whether or not they like the video. How “evolved” can they be if they can’t handle their video getting a bad score?
Karl R 48

Venus said: (#5)
“Now it is time for a similar apology from women to men because we are not faultless!”
Venus said: (#27)
“Why should women apologize? How about I apologize for being an emasculating bitch in the boardroom but this was the only way to get you to accept me as your boss. Apologize for depriving you of your rights as a father because I was angry and resentful with you for moving on so quickly after the divorce… lol I know there are many more. (And no, those two apologies do not apply to me but I have seen women who do this.)”

I have to agree with Gem (#10). It’s meaningless for you to apologize on behalf of the women who actually hurt me. You didn’t do it, so you can’t take ownership of the mistake.

And if you “apologize” in the manner that I quoted, it’s likely to make matters worse. Reread what you said. You’re blaming the man for not accepting the woman as his boss. Your blaming the man for moving on so quickly after the divorce. I’ve never heard a sincere apology end with the words, “But you made me do it.”

If a man has treated a woman badly, I can feel sorry for that woman. People shouldn’t treat others that way. But I can’t apologize for what happened, unless I was somehow responsible.

maria said: (#32)
“With all due respect, if all men were like this Evan, you would be out of business. You would not have to constantly massage all of us into dealing with the reality of how cruel, selfish, shallow and nasty men really are!”

If that’s the way you believe “men really are,” don’t waste your time dating. You will never find the right person.

Men and women can be be cruel, selfish, shallow and nasty. You will encounter some of those people while dating (and elsewhere). But if you believe that’s the way men are (or women are), you’re sabotaging your own ability to relate to others.

A lot of times people’s motives for their actions are ambiguous or unclear. If you believe that people are cruel, selfish, shallow and nasty, those are the motives that you will attribute to their behavior … regardless of whether your belief is correct.

How well can you get along with a person who is convinced that you’re a cruel, selfish, shallow and nasty person?
Kevin 49

What if it were possible to be consciously masculine without being a “new age man” and without being a “male chauvinist pig”?
It is possible, and that’s where these guys are coming from.
Read the introduction to The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida and you’ll get it.
Steve 50

@Kevin post #46

I’m a native English speaker and I think the men from the video are saying exactly the things you are denying they are saying. You mentioned people using filters. What about “They’re apologizing for the actions and impact of the *unconscious* masculine.” ? Please. No disrespect intended.
Gem 51

Kevin,

What if it were possible to be consciously masculine without being a “new age man” and without being a “male chauvinist pig”?

It is possible. It’s called character and integrity.

In the video, they say that rape, abuse, sexual mutilation, subjugation, etc., are caused by ”our unconscious actions when we were angry, scared, and in the grip of distructive forces in our psyche.” and “because of the unconscious relationship to the feminine.”

Say whaaa?

First of all, it sounds like, “we can’t help it, we were born barbaric bastards but we are commited to rise above it, and worship the feminine because you are better than us for having been born women.”

They speak as if their is something inherenly bad with masculinity and bad is the default status of men.

And what about all the men in history and today who never raped or used a woman. Are they more conscious? More evolved? Fully integrated with their feminine?

Or are they just respectful, moral, decent men of integrity who make good choices and don’t apologize for being born with a penis?
Beth 52

These men remind me of a man I dated who was very into all of this masculine/feminine engry stuff. Don’t get me wrong, I think there is something to it (but Evan says it best – men want women who make them feel good when they are around them, not another business partner. That explains the masculine/feminine thing perfectly. In my opinion, these groups take it to an extreme. Part of the reason the relationship with my ex ended was because he spent so much time trying to follow the “rules” or “beliefs” of the group that the relationship became almost scripted. It was unrealistic and annoying.

There is something very cultish about these philosophies and the way they are presented and I am hesitant to take any of this seriously. These guys were creepy and not people that I would want to date.
M 53

Ok, wow at some of these post. I don’t know how you even sat through the whole thing. I stopped it at 30 seconds.
1) Mutual respect is a must, but I don’t need a 8 minute video to tell me that, and…
2)I agree with what Gem said in #2…I love our difference…give me back real men (ok, that last part came from me, Gem didn’t say that). This metro movement is too much. Be a man. Be clean, have manners, but I don’t want to date a man in touch with his feminine side, I want to date a man in touch with his masculine side that respects my feminine side…yin and yang…they compliment each other. Yes, men and women both grow up and mature and change over time to be more sensitive to their partners and their partners needs…but I still want my man to be a man.
I know some of you are really going to hate that comment, but it’s just my opinion, and I wont be taping any apologies for it, so no need to yell at me.
Ruby 54

Kevin #46

I think what you say in your first paragraph is spot on! The authors of this video – who scripted it, BTW – are interested in the idea of “collective apology” as a form of healing. I think when you talk about the “*unconscious* masculine”, you are referring to accepted or deeply ingrained beliefs about male power and subjugation of women. Oftentimes, these beliefs are part of an accepted collective unconsciousness that treats women as persons of lesser status and power. As John Lennon said “Woman is the n-(word) of the world”.
Sarahrahrah! 55

Agree, #46, #54

I think it is difficult to articulate the violence and injustice perpetrated against women by men without generalizing and using clichès (in this case, new age clichès). That said, I thought this was AWESOME and the men in it didn’t strike me as weak at all. While I’m not a new ager, I really appreciated the general sentiment behind this and loved that these guys were thoughtful enough to recognize how entitlement is almost built in to male culture.

One of my heroes, Shirley Chisholm once said, “Of my two handicaps, being female put many more obstacles in my path than being black.”

I think that a lot women who saw this and were offended by it had such a reaction because they haven’t not recognized and named the severe subjugation of women by men — in the present day and in the past. I think that you have to face that reality first before you can really accept this “peace offering” of sorts by the men who made the video.
morgan 56

I think these chaps have been spending a bit too much time rubbing their crystals.
Snazzy 57

Ugh!

I tried hard but couldn’t bring myself to even get half way through.

No, I don’t want one of these men- they sound like cult leaders! And a bulk apology on behalf of all men is ridiculous.

More to the topic at hand I do actually like masculine energy. Men are not perfect and some could improve- women aren’t perfect and some could improve.
Steve 58

In my opinion the lion’s share of the creepiness of this video probaaly comes from people emphatically stating that their nature is flawed. Who they are, if they are men is defective. A nuage feminist original sin. They can only be saved by renouncing who they are ( their “unconsicous masculinity” ) and work to become something they are not.
The music also likely upped the “creepiness” factor.

I’m guessing glazed gazes that really creeped people out came from reading a script off of cue cards or reciting a barely rememered script from memory………any of which would make the affect of the men in the video seem unnatural.
Kurt 59

Those fools never get any decent women. The vast majority of men do not respect or want men who kiss their asses and apologize profusely like the idiots in this video. Women want masculine men, not weak men like the ones in this video.
splade 60

really? i am a open-minded woman who is all for the sentiments these men are trying to get across but the way they did it just creeped the heck out of me!
first off a little pet peeve of mine: grossly misusing the term “gender.” Gender is a set of behavioral expectations defined by a culture that outlines what it is to be “feminine,” “masculine,” “transgendered” or any other recognized gender. A male can be gendered feminine… “SEX” is what should have been used. Minus points for for that.
Onto the real issue though. I felt infantalized by this video. We acknowledge all of the hurts caused over centuries, but do we need to continually victimize people? I’m from a town that is 50% first nations with a lot of horrendous religious and colonial history. There is a lot of healing that goes on, but we don’t sit around and continually apologize to each other. We move on, make friendships and work to an understanding. And there were some very eurocentric statements made in this video that makes me wonder how much time have these men spent actually understanding different situations, or do they sit at home making worse-case scenario assumptions?
“I’m sorry we raped you. I’m sorry we burned you at the stake. I’m sorry blah blah blah.” I’m the kind of person who acknowledges and moves on. I don’t like to fester in it, nor do I appreciate being dragged back into it because someone felt it their duty to separate themselves from what they feel is wrong.
Come on Buddy, I don’t need you to apologize for what you did not do to me. I want you to treat me, and all people with the same level of respect. That is worth thousands more than this video. Plus if I ever met you in real life (and trust me Buddy, I actually have friends like you), I’d initially feel creeped out by your ‘new’, sly way to get women and move on to date someone who treats me like an equal, not something on a pedestal. Go cry somewhere else, I’m moving on with my life!
Moe D 61

Ok,
I’m all for consciousness. Awareness, deliberate action, higher self…all good.
I’m all for evolving the way we think, feel, and act towards each other. Loosening of gender roles, cooperation over competition, love and connection…all good.
But this piece of pandering poo-poo is a little much for my stomach.
Look, I too am sorry too for all the hateful unconscious behavior of men. Sorry I didn’t get mine in when the getting was good!
Nah, but really though, I myself could easily be saying…
“I’m still waiting for my apology for being born black and poor in America. I’ll get back to you on the gender thing once I’m squared up on this racial socioeconomic thing.”
– The WOO WOO FELLOWSHIP –
So do you as a woman, accept our apology?
Now will you accept our sexual advances?
Why are you dating that unconscious jerk, anyway?
Bridget 62

amen Moe D.
We ALL are responsible for our own actions and need to own them, and let the people who wronged us own their actions.
In this video, the apology doesn’t go far with me as it seems it is being read. What good is an apology from somebody that most likely hasn’t done anything wrong? Just because he’s male? Goood Lord I hope I don’t have to be accountable for all the women out there that have wronged a man. Hopefully we woman can stick up for ourselves so that you men can continue to be men.
Bridget 63

So with that being said I missed the Q: Do I like sensitive, spiritual, new age guys?
A: NOpe. I may like to be friends with them, but in a romantic relationship I am the sensitive, spiritual one and need the opposite to balance me out.
Kevin 64

@Steve #50
@Gem #51

Thanks for your comments. Steve when I say “filters” I’m talking about the filters we all have and through which we perceive reality. Our own personal filters, born of experience and our interpretations of our experience, are what shape our expectations and our perceptions – e.g. two people will look at a piece of modern art and one will say, “Wonderful,” and the other will say, “Crap”. Same with the video.
Gem (and Steve), when we talk about “unconscious” it’s a reference to the fact that we can ALL, when we’re on a kinda negative auto-pilot, be cruel, vicious, resentful, blaming, etc. We all have a dark side. When we’re happy and/or self-aware, this isn’t what’s running the show. But when we’re tormented and/or fighting for survival, the dark side comes out. This is what they’re talking about re “unconscious masculine”. It’s not BAD or anything like that, it’s simply that when we’re being this way it has an impact on those we interact with, including women.
This video is about acknowledging that impact, both to ourselves as men and to the women of this world.
Steve 65

@Kevin #64

No disrespect, but I was around too many men and women like the men in that video for too many years. “Filter” is a code word for “they are wrong because they can’t see what is really there, but I don’t have enough guts to say that flat out because I am scared of conflict”. It is used as a way do dodge dealing with what other people have to say and the possibility that you may have to update your opinions.

In regards to your apology for the term “unconscious masculine”, the producers of that video would have to be unintelligent not to see how that term doesn’t fit the definition you claim it has.

There are a number of pattern in the comments in this thread. If you are interested in learning I would suggest you ask yourself why would so many different people make the same comments over and over again. As part of the exercise, temporarily do not use answers like “they are wrong”, “it is their filters”, or anything else that would discount their views.
Christie Hartman 66

One’s opinion on this video has less to do with your opinion on men, masculinity, or whether these men are datable, and more to do with your exposure to, interest in, and tolerance for spiritual or new age beliefs. Most people find new age stuff weird or cheesy at first, until they see how they can benefit from it personally.

I think Kevin’s comments offer good perspective. And I do really need to pick up David Deida’s books!
Tony 67

I am a male and I subscribe to the the new age thinking somewhat. I find it interesting that Evan mentioned that he wouldn’t hang around these guy’s…..Why?!!

I wouldn’t have a problem with hanging out with them, they may appear to be a little extreme only because this is a video. Evan are you concern about your masculinity? If so I understand because I have been there myself.

I am a 1st degree black belt in MMA, I hold several ranks in a variety of Martial Arts and I sparr Kickboxing on a regular basis in the ring. I am also training to be a Kickboxing instructor. On the feminine side I cry at movies, sometimes with commercials, I can hang with feminine gay men and be ok with it. Most of my friends are women and we talk about things that they only talk to women about.

I am heterosexual and I love women very much. I look masculine and I act masculine but I am excepting of different genders, races, religions etc.

The reason I mentioned this is because a man can be very masculine and express his feminine side also. This has nothing to do with being a “real man” This is a balance between feminine and masculine also know as Ying and Yang.

You said: ”On the other hand, is this really how we want our men to sound? Which is to say, very much like women…
Personally, I dig the message and agree that men can become a whole lot better at relating to women. I’m just not sure that I would really enjoy hanging out with these kinds of guys myself.”

Evan, really these guys don’t sound like this all the time. How can you like the message and agree that men can become better relating to women and then say you wouldn’t enjoy hanging out with these guys? Wouldn’t you want to learn something from them?

I am not picking on you but you have a mixed message here. The point about this video is like anything else, it’s a starting point. This is a one dimensional video you have to read between the lines. Another way of saying it is; you have to use you feelings (feminine) to understand what they’re saying.

If guy’s expressed more of their feelings, then it would make it easier for women….right? And they can still maintain their masculinity. These guy’s are expressing their feelings, that’s what they are doing. They don’t do it all the time and all day long.

I hope this make sense……

Tony (Mr. Masculine)
sassysophia 68

I thought the video was lovely and it’s sentiment was really to honor the feminine WHICH i agree is not happening in our culture or the world. It reminds me of when Pope John Paul II apologized about The Church supporting Natzis causing lots of emotional reactions.

I think the point is Co-Commitment which is having both men and women consciouly creating relationships that honor one another. I have several books by the Hendricksons.

The fact Marc says he wouldn’t want to hang out with ANY of these guys is a reflection on MArc and he most likely prefers a the unconscious male type of living and loving. The men in the video seemed very diverse and they connected by honoring the female –

The hard part is the video in some ways was putting the feminine in traditional roles.

I do believe it would be a very different world if the feminine and masculine was honored and celebrated. I think it’s all women have ever wanted and asked for – hence – women wanting equality to begin with. It was born from everything the men were apologizing for in the video. If women had been honored since the beginning of time there would not have been the sexual revolution, divorce, or most of our negative situations now because women would have always been competely valued, as well as the men not just how women can serve men.
Sayanta 69

Sassy-

OK, this is really beginning to bother me- his name is EVAN!!!!!
Francesca 70

I don’t accept this, because it makes it sound as if women never do anything wrong. That we have only been abused in the past. I know I have made mistakes with dating, I’ve done things to guys that I’ve regretted, but at the same time those very things make me grow as a person, and to who I am now. They have made me a better girlfriend.
I am a tempermental wench, so I make a habit of apologising early and apologising early. Never have I apologised non stop for 15 minutes. Listening to that apology made me feel guilty about all the times that I have lied to men, that I have run away from men, or led them on. Or even the times when I knew a guy who was in a relationship liked me and I didn’t cut off contact.
Also I live in Australia, where as a woman I have equal rights as a man. They do not control me. However I have always believed that you should be weary of a man who is trying to protect a woman from something- even themselves. We are strong independent women, we have to brains to help us protect ourselves. Loved, trusted, supported- yes, but protected? no, that is too easily abused.
I’ll clarify this and say that many developing nations could benefit from a healthy dose of this attitude.
downtowngal 71

Evan, I agree w you. And the more I think abt it, the more I think it’s COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to its original goal. For example:

(1) t’s assuming that all men are already bad, NOT true. I grew up in a household with men who were kind-hearted gentlemen, as is my bf.

(2) The women to whom they are apollogiiing, who have presumably been abused or raped – they might find solace in this, but in order to truly overcome their hurt they need to work through it on their own.

My bf and I had a good laugh over this video. If this is an example of the ‘modern male”, then the human race is doomed to extinction.

Women want men who are MEN. This doesn’t mean men who are abusive or jerkey, this means men who don’t ACt like women – obsessing over their hair, skin, etc. We want someonw who’s gong to protecct us, who is chivilrous. etc.
Heather 72

I have just watched this video, and one minute into it I said to myself, I would give myself as a woman to any one of these men instantaneously. THIS is what The Masculine is supposed to look like. It gives me hope for the future. I needed this today because I was about to give up on men – seriously – I’ve joined some lesbian dating sites and went to an all-women, lesbian event ten nights ago. I’m straight but just can’t take the misogyny, the objectification, the endless demands for perfectionism, the childish behavior, the possessiveness, the professional envy and backstabbing, dirty competition behaviors, the jealously demanding I choose between my creativity and “attention towards him”, the stubborn insistence I look like a porn star while he gets to slouch towards Bethlehem, the hatred, the violence, the Brooklyn 55-year-old who brutally murdered his ex-girlfriend and her mother a few days ago because she was planning to leave him, the apologists and “she probably deserved its” on line, the Omega Virgin Revolt and all like it, the George Sodinis, “the cookie”, “the code”, “the game” and all the other awful reminders that men apparently are not human, hate us, and see us as a vending machine to tip over and rob snacks from like primates in the wild.
I was about to give up on this entirely, convinced there are no conscious men in the world and that instead of facing life alone without support, I had better go against my entire sexual nature and learn how to sleep with women. And then I found this video on this site.
As long as there are men out there who really do care about us, and don’t just see us as a source of pleasure to manipulate and discard and then blame for their own failings – over and over again – I will stay on the heterosexual side of the fence and open my heart again. To the men behind this video, bravo.
You give me hope.
Thank you.
Annie 73

It was a little creepy and insincere in the delivery.

But I have known a few men, with perhaps a less “gentle eleveator music in the background way” apologized to me, for what I was subjected to by men, and I appreciated it. Was just a reminder I needed not to get jaded and believe they were all the same.

This was a little two one-sided though.
Jeffrey Platts 74

I agree with your post. The intent is great, but I felt that there was no meaning or sincerity behind the message. It felt like they were just rambling off a script, which they were. I also don’t necessarily resonate with the idea of unsolicited, blanket apologies, to any gender, race or group.

- Jeffrey
JerseyGirl 75

I think it’s nice to show some footage that’s about men talking to women, to work together, not about women’s T&A and stuff like that. It’s only a positive to hear other men talk about honoring a woman for who she is and sending that message to other women and men. I think the video does miss the mark a little bit but I like the intent behind it. Like Jeffrey above said.
Michael 76

@72 Heather

I’m sincerely sorry that you feel that way. I invite you to take a step back and realize how extreme choosing to be gay is when you are in fact straight.

There are many women who live in the same world that you do, yet they do not have these feelings at all. My wife is one of them. And no she has not lived a charmed existence. She was sexually abused as a young girl.

I fear this thought will be immediately rejected by you, but perhaps by projecting all this hatred outward on men, you are attempting to protect yourself from some hurt that you don’t feel ready or equipped to deal with. If this is the case, I know you’re not stupid or silly to do so. Every behavior has a positive intent. I can only imagine that in order for such extreme measures your must be attempting to protect against something equally if not more so dark.

Don’t try to fix the outside. Forget about lesbians, forget about men, and forget about relationships for a while and take some time to focus on just you. As someone who has brought many relationships back from the brink in my professional practice I’ll tell you the one core secret to making them work. A relationship has to be a place you go to share and give love because you have so much of it in your own life it would be a sin to bottle it up. If you go there to get your needs fulfilled, you are simply using each other and the attraction will eventually fizzle and die out.

Best wishes and good luck.
Mariza 77

It takes a lot of wisdom & a true awareness of self to realise the war of genders in the world,…not as an arbitrary idea, but most importantly as a day-on-a-day battle basis to be overcome! Here we are, on Evan’s blog sharing & learning from material on how to “create” better relationships…but what really stroke me as fundamental is the concept of “difference” within the nature of every gender by really embracing the idea & making the most of it to bring peace & prosperity within relationships! I believe in the difference of the two perspectives & Evan really captures that from the male point of view,…& that is what makes him approach the truth of the matter so uniquely. What this video has done, though, is take a step forward in accepting not only the differences in the two natures of genders, but also accepting & taking responsibility for the times of hardship & pain men throughout time have brought women! No doubt, the opposite has occured…But this is not about that now! It’s not about EVERY social group in need of a (belated) apology! Let’s not drift away from the essence. Now, we examine THIS video,…not what is yet to be made! & this video is filled with a wish for “collective” healing, an expressed hope for new “social” beginnings & a sense of awareness of past historical mistakes between the two genders! On these terms,…such messages – even “strange” as they may seem at first - can only bring a sense of relief, closure and hope for the future for all women who still carry baggage of an unworthy father/husband/companion/ employer/male friend etc…If only this became the start & more people came forth in assuming their collective “responsibilities” towards the making of a new reality & a new whole for all! Remember: Pain doesn’t always come in gender,…but any form of colllective relief of pain & closure is always welcome! )
Irina I 78

Though I like the idea of this, I was not attracted to any of those guys…despite a lot of them actually being physically attractive. They just sounded so….feminine.