Did I Lose A Great Guy Or Did I Avoid a Selfish Player?
Hello Evan. Four months ago I met this guy. I had just broken up with my ex-boyfriend, so I was a bit reluctant to take the new guy seriously. However, he was so persistent and romantic that I finally gave in and started to have what I thought was a relationship with him. A week or two later he started to act really cold, not texting or phoning me unless I did it first. He would only see me once a week because he said he was busy (which he was). I felt horrible because I had fallen for him and he didn’t care much about us (in fact he did state that we were incompatible and that he couldn’t imagine a future with me). That’s why six weeks ago I started dating other guys. I didn’t tell the guy about this, which was totally wrong. He wouldn’t tell people he was my boyfriend and he wouldn’t hold hands with me on the street. A week ago a friend of his told him that he had chatted me up and that I had somehow responded. He went completely nuts. I told him all the truth and he’s now furious. He says I cheated on him and that I’m a slut and things like that. He doesn’t want to be with me anymore. I’ve now realized he did love me but he didn’t have the guts to admit it or to show it. I feel like crap. I’m desperate and don’t know what to do because I feel I’ve lost a great guy just because of a big misunderstanding. What should I do? Please help. –Rose
Rose,
Although your question is very similar to this one, which I wrote a few years back, I wanted to tackle it and see if I could shed some light on your situation.
Quick, let’s play a game called “What’s my emotion?”
How it works is that I give you a choice of the emotions I could possibly be feeling after reading your question and you guess which one is the most accurate one. Ready? Go!
Bemused – Because literally half of my questions sound something like this: “I met this guy and the chemistry was really great and we slept together and I thought he was my boyfriend but now he’s acting distant and doesn’t seem to want a relationship. What should I do?”
Pity – Because even though this guy wouldn’t call or text you, see you more than once a week, commit to you as a boyfriend, and finally called you a slut for dating other men, you’re STILL delusional enough to think he’s a “great guy”, that you “cheated” on him and that he “loved you” after a few weeks of “dating”.
Anger – Because you need a dating coach to tell you what is patently obvious. Your guy is not a keeper, you didn’t blow it, and the fact that you’re in great pain over this “loss” drives me absolutely crazy. What does he need to do to convince you that he’s not a good guy? Burn your house down? Torture your dog?
Frustration – Because this situation is so very common and it’s so hard for most women to distinguish their feelings for their boyfriend from his feelings for you.
So let’s make it really clear.
Good men don’t call you “slut”.
Good men call you regularly to make plans because they’re excited about you.
Good men don’t freak out if you’re seeing other men – especially if you’re not exclusive.
You dated a man who, like many men (including good men), look for sex first and figure out the relationship stuff later.
What does he need to do to convince you that he’s not a good guy? Burn your house down? Torture your dog?
I’ve written volumes about this phenomenon and don’t think there’s much to add to that discussion. Men feel attraction, act on the attraction, but don’t determine whether they like you as a person or are emotionally ready for a relationship until AFTER.
This is common.
What’s not common is the amount of psychological abuse you seem to be willing to put yourself through in order to win back this douchecanoe.
He’s done NOTHING to earn your loyalty and EVERYTHING to hurt you.
I’m not going to try to play shrink to figure out how low your self-esteem has to get for you want to win back a psychotic, selfish, abusive commitmentphobe, but let’s say that what happened to you should have driven you far, far away from this guy.
So at this point, I’m not pissed at him.
I’m angry at YOU, Rose, for not getting it.
That is, I would be angry if anger were the emotion I was feeling in this hypothetical game.
Really, I think I just feel sad for you.
 |
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59 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Joe 1
What should you do? Move on to someone who will be your boyfriend.
Christina 2
Questions like this make me sad, and their frequency makes me even sadder. Are women really so desperate for a man that they will put up with any amount of nasty, abusive behavior?
There is just nothing about this guy that indicates that the OP should spare him another thought. He intentionally kept her at a distance but freaked out when it looked like she was doing the same. Not a good guy by any definition.
Love the “douchecanoe!”
Steve 3
Rose;
I don’t mean to be harsh. He told you that there was no future with you, refused to hold your hand and refused to be called your boyfriend. What part of that is hard to understand as him not being your BF despite his irrational behavior when finding out his friend chatted you up?
You didn’t do anything wrong and you didn’t lose anything.
Forget about him and move on to someone else.
Angie 4
Hi Rose,
I think you need some downtown to think about what you really want instead of just reeling from one person to the next while still on the rebound.
This guy is a DRAMA KING.
“I’ve now realized he did love me but he didn’t have the guts to admit it or to show it.”
Ok, that is totally wrong. That statement is insane. First off, you should want to date someone who can show you he loves you. And if someone doesn’t have the BALLS to show you he loves you (12 year olds have the balls to show people they love them), then he doesn’t care enough.
This is obviously not the case here… The guy is just being dramatic, but to be honest, you seem to be acting dramatic as well.
Sayanta 5
Agree with Evans response and the other posters. On a side note, what if the issue is not wanting the guy back, but wanting to get BACK AT him for bad behavior? Sadly, a lot of men go through life behaving badly with women and go to their graves without regret or facing consequences.
Ruby 6
<< I feel I’ve lost a great guy just because of a big misunderstanding.>>
I see absolutely nothing in Rose’s letter that says that her guy was “great” in any way. In fact, except for a very short time at the beginning of their relationship, she spends the entire letter telling us what a jerk he is! Is she just on the rebound? I think it’s too soon for her to be dating, but my guess is her previous relationship wasn’t very healthy either.
I love the word “douchecanoe” too!
Angie 7
A quick PS… Are you totally sure that you don’t just want attention?
Jennifer 8
Rose, this guy didn’t love you. In fact, there is a chance that when he found out his friend ‘chatted you up’ he was embarrassed because he had previosuly been telling his buddies about ‘this chick that’s so into him’ etc., but this episode made it known that his game was not as tight as he thought. So now he looks stupid and is lashing out at you with the name-calling.
Do I have hard evidence to back up that scenario? No. But I think it’s more likely than the scenario that he was just too scared to tell you he loved you.
I’m sorry you got hurt. You need to recalibrate so you aren’t drawn to men like this. As a start, I suggest you set some boundaries of dating behavior you are and aren’t okay with (regular phone calls, being ‘claimed’ after a certain amount of time, etc.) and if the new guy isn’t meeting them, you leave him.
DEE 9
Another plus for those who recognize that the dweeb is a douchecanoe! (Gotta love that one).
It is not him we really have to worry about Rose but your comments do worry us that you are going to be ok. One key thing here is realize that abusive people are masters at manipulation quite often and I would easily say you have been totally manipulated by him. Beware too of angry men! Even scripture warns about them. You do deserve soooo much better! Move onward, upward and forward girl and leave him paddleless as he really is just a douchecannoe. Perhaps he deserves a ride on the rapids anyway…. but there are way more men in the sea – keep fishing and get yourself a great catch!
Nicole 10
I have to ask to my fellow women…what is the deal with the Rationalization Theater that some of you love to put on.
A man who is flaky and ignores you becomes “too scared” of his feelings to tell you, or he doesn’t call for weeks because he is “too busy.”
Guess what, those guys that blow you off b/c of work or commitment issues will someday meet a woman who they do not want to let get away, and she won’t hear any of the lies and excuses that you do (or that really you make in your head).
I hate to quote Oprah, and I’m sure this has been said by many, but you know, when a man shows you who he really is- believe him. Don’t make him beat you over the head with it.
This guy didn’t want to be seen or known as your boyfriend, but calls you a slut b/c his friend hit on you? Aside from being a misogynist, he’s a big hypocrite. You were only ever back-up booty, and he didn’t want anyone to know he had a girlfriend b/c it could limit his options.
If you are being nice, available, and easygoing and you are still getting ignored, he doesn’t want you.
Life can get hard, but I really believe that once a man meets what he considers to be his keeper, he will fight to have her no matter what else is going on in his life and no matter scared he might be.
And it’s said b/c she is genuinely hurt and even if she takes this good advice, she’ll still probably have a hard time moving on.
Can I ask some of the male commenters…do you ever make up crazy excuses for why a woman treats you badly? Or is this more of a feminine trait?
Saint Stephen 11
Great advice from Evan and other posters.
Rose- a 10yo would know this guy doesn’t love you. your emotions i think
have clouded your sense of reasoning and good judgement.
Jennifer (#8)
you make drew up a good scenario, but coming from a female, your analysis might be wrong.
Now let me give a male perspective.
There is something we guys sometimes do when we aren’t anymore interested in a girl. We implicate her by setting her up with our friends, that way we can end the relationship still having our good guy label, while she is made to feel responsible and bear the brunt for the relationship failure.
i’ll assert that he noticed you had been dating again and he probably set you up with his guy friend, through that means he will successfully get you to believe that your sluttish attitude, terminated the relationship prematurely. by that way you will be the one feeling the guilt.
Oh! Rose.. please forget the drama- guys can act too.
Flower White 12
Everything everyone else say and adding… there is now two generations of women raised by single mothers. Fatherlessness leaves women at great disadvantages regarding dating choices. I am positive that this young lady was not raise with her dad to guide her. My parents divorced and dad checked out and therapy helped but in retrospect, being fatherless lead to me making poor choices of men.
Diana 13
Rose, at the very moment he said that the two of you were incompatible and he couldn’t imagine a future with you, you should have thanked him for doing you a big favor and then walked away from him as fast as your pretty self could. What a selfish, immature, pompous, righteous jerk (and a few other things, too
).
Look, it hurts, and sometimes like hell, to grow emotionally attached to a man, only to find out what he’s really made of, but rather than focus on how hurt you’re feeling, focus on how you’re not going to give him a second of satisfaction or an ounce of your power. He’s not worth doing any self-evaluating or crying over, and he’s certainly not worth giving up your power to his childish ways and words. Hold you head high, and be grateful he’s gone.
Remember … a man who truly loves you would never treat you this way. Try not to allow your own insecurities to cloud the issues.
Sheba Wheeler 14
Tough love but the honest to goodness truth, as I see it. Please, don’t take offense to EMK response or take it personally because he’s really trying to help you. You may want to bristle…but don’t allow that to prevent you from what he’s trying to say to assist you.
Bridget 15
I puked in my mouth a little when I read “ I’ve now realized he did love me but he didn’t have the guts to admit it or to show it.”
With all the blogs and books out there educating women about dating and men’s behavior, there are still some that just don’t get it. Come on, we’re in the “he’s just not into you” generation….
It saddens me that while some women learn and accept this, there are still some with such low self esteem that it never sinks in for them. It sounds like she needs a therapist more then relationship advice…
Never make someone a priority when they only make you an option! Never accept abusive behavior from anyone- boyfriend, friend, co-worker… If someone or a situation is making you feel bad, anxious, sad, or worthless then that’s a red flag that your boundary has been crossed and to stop accepting it….
E 16
Wow! Hold on now people. I have to admit I was really shocked to read both Evan’s response and all of the comments below. And please don’t get me wrong – I’m a big fan of Evan’s. I think he’s terrific at laying things out clearly, with love but no mercy. I also really appreciate that instead of just going the “He’s Just Not That Into You” route (i.e., it’s the dude’s fault if he doesn’t appreciate wonderful, gorgeous you), Evan tells women WHY the dude isn’t into them. That’s why I was so surprised that Rose was written off so quickly as being merely a delusional woman and Douchecanoe was written off so quickly as a douchecanoe.
Rose tells us that she had broken up with her ex mere weeks before meeting Douchecanoe. She also tells us that she took a lot of convincing before she finally gave into his romantic and persistent advances. Isn’t it possible that she was sending him mixed signals and he responded by pulling away? When women write in to Evan, we only get their side of the story, and it usually makes them look innocent but clueless. She doesn’t tell us what ‘giving in’ means – everyone just assumed that Douchecanoe was just into her for sex and fell off the face of the earth once he got it. Sure, lots of men do that and hey, this guy could have done that, too. But I think I need to hear a bit more about how Rose behaved with this man before I write off Douchecanoe as a Douchecanoe.
Still Looking 17
Nicole @ 10 asked, “Can I ask some of the male commenters…do you ever make up crazy excuses for why a woman treats you badly? Or is this more of a feminine trait?”
I can only speak for myself but yes I have made the mistake of rationalizing why a woman has treated me poorly. It was when I first started dating and I was blinded by “chemistry.” It is amazing what we will put up with when the chemistry is off the charts
Now with more experience and some words of wisdom from this site, I have learned to just say “Next” as soon as the red flags start popping up.
Carrie 18
Hey Rose…hope you have taken what Evan said and most of the other posters. Nicole and Bridget….those two posts…you need to read over and over again my dear. I managed to marry someone who gave me all the signs in the beginning but because I was determined and pushed it I married him and now divorced. Divorce is costly and hurts. Generally makes you really pissed off as well. Don’t waste your time even thinking this guy loved you. He didn’t, I am sorry to put it bluntly but he didn’t. It was a game to him. You are now relieved of a Player in every sense of the word. Find the guy who will love and adore you. He will call you and want to listen to your voice, talking hours on the phone. Holding your hand and telling you how wonderful you are and happy that you are in his life. Hold out! It’s tough and you will go through some toads like this last one. Hold out…get the RIGHT one! It will be worth it. Wishing you success finding the right one! Carrie XO
Sherell 19
Really!! Why are you settling for so little? You need to work on your self esteem a bit before you date again. You deserve so much more and you need to build yourself up so you don’t even entertain this bullsh*t!
hunter 20
Hmmm…”E” posted an interesting side to it that I never would have seen….
Mazzy 21
Oh, man. Do I feel like I’ve been here before. Rose, please don’t do this to yourself. Two years ago, I made a similar mistake. I broke up with my boyfriend and maybe a month later, I met a guy off of OKCupid who seemed to fit perfectly with me who was totally on my wavelength in every way I could have possibly desired…except that he was TERRIBLE at making time for me, showing up to our dates, and committing to a relationship after five months of wishy-washy emotional reeling. To this day, whatever that situation we had was is still a big confusing, torturous mess to me, because there are so many unanswered questions. This guy would text me all day, call me multiple times a day, but would always “fall asleep,” or “forget,” or just plain no-show on me all the time when we made plans. He never once met a single friend of mine and went out of his way to avoid meeting them or introducing me to his. He was super weird about intimacy, and I can count the times we actually made it to home base on one hand. One day, after about four and a half months, with no commitment, and disappointed by the lack of intimacy (emotionally and physically), I reactivated my OKC account and he found out. Our relationship dwindled away, and he attacked me, much in the same manner that your fellow did to you.
Needless to say, that situation was INCREDIBLY painful for me and took me a very, very long time to recover from, because he had me hook, line, and sinker. I was lost in him, almost entirely, in a crazy, delusional, masochistic kind of way. While I will never have the answers I wanted and needed in that situation, I can tell you that it’s NOT something to put yourself through. I can tell you are in a place of pain right now, and what’s most important at this point is to allow yourself the time to heal, to rebuild, and to grow from within. It is a process, and not an easy one, but it is necessary to get yourself back on your feet and in the right mindset to be open and ready for the right kind of love that you so rightly deserve.
Just remember to take the time you need to heal, and spend time getting to know and love yourself. Spending time with friends really did wonders for me in that process. I wish you the best and I’m sending tons and tons of hugs your way. Hang in there!! And stay away from these kinds of people. It’s sometimes hard to figure out who is real and who is not, but EMK gives us a lot of tools to use for this process. Keep reading the blog — I’ve been a creeper for the past two years (since my incident) and I can’t tell you how much that’s helped me, as well.
Gem 22
Rose,
Where is the misunderstanding in these statements?
A week or two later he started to act really cold, not texting or phoning me unless I did it first. He would only see me once a week because he said he was busy
(in fact he did state that we were incompatible and that he couldn’t imagine a future with me).
He wouldn’t tell people he was my boyfriend and he wouldn’t hold hands with me on the street.
He says I cheated on him and that I’m a slut and things like that. He doesn’t want to be with me anymore.
You’re desperate to get THIS man back? Why??
And why are you so ready to let him turn everything around on you?
Read the bold print again and again until you get it !!
Good luck
Goldie 23
Oh my. Rose, you don’t have any Jewish close relatives, do you? This was your first guilt trip, wasn’t it? See, he wouldn’t be able to pull this trick on me, because I grew up on that stuff, and can spot it from a mile away. He’s been a crappy BF all along, and now all of a sudden it’s your fault? Have you asked him how is it even logically possible to cheat on a man who said he doesn’t want a relationship, cannot imagine a future with you, and wouldn’t call himself your boyfriend? How is it cheating, when you two are not in any kind of relationship, according to him?? He did you a huge favor by saying he “doesn’t want to be with you anymore” (yeah, like he ever really was with you to begin with). Good, let him take his passive-aggressive douchebaggery elsewhere.
I totally understand that right now, you’re physically and emotionally attached and that isn’t allowing you to think straight – BTDT. A while ago, someone on here posted a link to a site that I found very useful, and wish I’d found it a month earlier than I did – would’ve saved me from doing and saying some asinine things to myself and others. The site has a ton of very good post-breakup instructions, here it is: http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/ Hope it helps you snap out of this funk you’re in! Good luck!!
Sharon 24
@ Hunter
If I someone isn’t making it clear you’re in a committed relationship but is critical when you see other people I see it as having your cake and eating it too situation.
It seems your suggesting it would be possible that he was playing it cool in order to win her over. Aside from a plot line for a movie I’ve never heard of this actually happening. Regardless if they’re were some confusion relating their relationship status belittling someone for considering their options is a jerk move.
So maybe the guy isn’t a full time douche, he could be a great guy to someone else somewhere down the way. But he was certainly acting douche-y Rose. And she doesn’t need to throw good time after bad trying to figure what she did that made him lost interest.
Not every that treats you badly is a terrible person through and through but it’s better for Rose to write the guy off as a douche in the long run than to analyze everything detail in her behavior and his psychology that made them not work as a couple.
Possessiveness and Jealousy can be negative attributes that come with love but they can exist just as well in the absence of love as well.
nathan 25
Nothing about this guy’s actions suggest “great catch.” However, I do think that E’s point about mixed signals could also be part of the story here as well. Being in that post breakup place, it’s rare that someone is really ready to date seriously again. I’ve been on both ends of that stick, and it’s always filled with mixed signals. So, although I doubt – based on what Gem highlighted above – that this guy was a good match, I also imagine that Rose hasn’t been open and emotionally available in a way that would attract a good match.
Marie 26
On a positive note, I think Rose did make one wise decision, which was to have started dating other men. Good for you! Now carry on that attitute and date more until you find one that doesn’t play head games. Don’t commit to any until they show you via their actions they are committed to a relationship.
Take away the words, and then look at their actions…
Annie 27
Goldie@23: Hysterical!!!!
Claire 28
Wow. Um, I can’t believe I’m the first one with this but, here it goes.
I know that Rose may have been a a little blinded by what sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship, so why are we answering her with more abuse? That’s what emotionally abusive men do, the wittle you down until you don’t know what’s good and bad in the relationship. Shouldn’t we be trying to help rather than pushing her down even further?
Seriously people, criticism is good when it’s constructive. “I feel sad for you.” Really? Hearing this is just disappointing. Women write in seeking advice, comfort, and yes, the truth. But this is not the way to deliver it. I get the whole “I want to be edgy and throw down the truth, in your face” spin Evan is taking here, but I sure as hell would never write in with the chance of being humiliated like that. There’s a line, and I think it’s been crossed here.
I get that you need to be edgy to keep readers, but taking it too far just makes you look immature and kind of likea douchcanoe yourself. I know it might not be intended and it’s all for the show of the blog (unless your really are a, ahem, douchecanoe), but there are real women behind these emails, with fragile emotions. Saying stuff like “I’m not going to try and play shrink to figure out how low your self esteem has to be to want to win back…” and “I feel sad for you” is so uncalled for. I’m ashamed of you and all of these readers who have piggy backed on, thinking that this post is just hilarious. It’s always funny when you’re sitting there with the other kids laughing at the harsh comments your ringleader throws at the girl in the corner, but just wait till you’re the girl in the corner and see how funny it is.
Put yourself in Rose’s emotional state. Put yourself in an ending emotionally abusive relationship. Do you really need harsh right now? Or did you alread get enough of it….
Dancing Faun 29
At least Rose stands a chance of having something good and sane because she’s trying to figure things out. The douchecanoe probably isn’t able.
AQ 30
I think the stages are out of whack
1. date many to find the one and be picky here until you find one into you
2. be in a committed girlfriend/boyfriend relationship
3. THEN have sex when you are sure – enjoy it a whole lot more and build a great relationship
There is a whole lot less confusion and a whole lot more value for the woman
david 31
I’ve noticed something that this OP did — and many of my close women friends do in abusive/unhealthy relationships — they formulate a reason from the guys’ POV — “Oh, he didn’t mean that” or “He’s only doing that because he was wounded as a child and needs an open relationship for A BC and D” and really latch onto this imagined rational as what’s really happening in the guy’s head…. And it’s almost impossible to break them of these assumptions and make them stare at the ugly truth….
Saint Stephen 32
@david (#30)
Exactly!!… you hit the nail at the spot.
Too bad even right now she still couldn’t see it.
DFL 33
AQ, except many men won’t commit before they had sex.
Goldie 34
@ David #30: They might be on to something, because a normal, balanced, sane man wouldn’t engage in an abusive or unhealthy relationship, so yeah, there is a chance that he’s “doing that because he was wounded as a child”. Which, to me, is even more puzzling – why would a woman want to stay with a supposedly grown man who is still so much haunted by his childhood issues from 30-40 years ago that, because of them, he cannot help acting like a douchecanoe(c)? Even in the unlikely case that this is true, the man needs professional help, not a girlfriend.
In my early Internet forum days (90s), an online friend once shared with us a principle that she lived by: “Never let another person’s insanity become your reality”. When you’re into a guy who’s got issues (and that’s not as impossible as it sounds – crazy guys can be fun and spontaneous, you know!), it is so easy to enter his crazy world and start viewing your own life events through the distorted lens of his irrational mind. And that messes you up big time, long term. Why do that to yourself?
Sharon 35
@ Claire.
Great Point!
I think people are most irritated by other’s weakness that are most like their own. Nothing wrong with a little tough love we all need it time to time but there’s no reason to kick someone when they’re already down.
@DFL
And so do I. If i have it down to a couple contenders I don’t want to jump into a serious relationship unless I know we’re sexually compatible.
@Goldie
love that quote.
Marie 36
@Claire. I couldn’t agree more. I tried to focus on her positive actions, and give a little outside perspective. I’m sure many, if not all of us on here have made some stupid relationship errors. Otherwise we wouldn’t be on here looking for advice! Lord knows I have.
I tell my friends “learn from my mistakes!” Some of us (me for example) are just slower, or more stubborn, than others and believe what we want to believe, and need a bit more ‘gentle’ nudging to snap out of it.
Evan Marc Katz 37
@Claire: I can understand where you’re coming from and don’t think you’re incorrect that my tone was harsh.
At the same time, I’ve got about 5000 queries over the years that pose the same question. What would you write to her? “I’m so sorry. He’s being a jerk. Go get some therapy. Find a better man.” Not only is that boring and hackneyed, but I’ve written some version of that column twenty times (meaning, it’s very clear that I’m nice, I care about women, and I want to help).
This last post was a new way of approaching a question that had a very obvious answer. Sorry you didn’t approve of my execution.
Oh, and by the way, someone who is convinced that a bad man is a good man needs a lot more than “gentle nudging” and “aw, sweetie” type support.
Ruby 38
Goldie #34
I don’t think we have any actual evidence that DC (DoucheCanoe) was wounded as a child. It’s more about the fact that women so often make those sorts of excuses for men, like, “I’ve now realized he did love me but he didn’t have the guts to admit it or to show it”, and when he called me a slut, it was just because he was hurt and jealous, blah, blah , blah. Hence the popularity of the book, “He’s Just Not That Into You”, subtitled, “The No-Excuses Truth to Understanding Guys.” But even if he did have a wounded inner child, he should be dealing with his past and his issues, rather than dumping them on someone else.
Miranda 39
Thanks Evan, great post! This is spot on. He is abusive and even if he changed his mind about the status of the relationship and his intentions concerning Rose, he will forever remain a douchecanoe
. This is never going to change unless he does some serious soul searching and maybe therapy.
On this note, I have a general question to everyone and especially Evan:
Quote from reply 10:
“Life can get hard, but I really believe that once a man meets what he considers to be his keeper, he will fight to have her no matter what else is going on in his life and no matter how scared he might be. ”
Don’t you all think that type of thinking is deeply deeply flawed? I think there are people who don’t all of a sudden become available and ready to love because they met someone who is soooooooo great and just right for them? In my opinion this type of thinking leads to girls/guys being stuck to douchebags because they thought they could be that one or were made to believe it. Only to find out much later that in fact s/he didn’t change because of them and has been cheating for years and so on. I think the ability to love lies deep within ourselves and is not triggered by “the one”. There are many ones we meet throughout our lives but a guy or girl who can’t love will not be able to fight for any relationship with all of his/her heart… never ever… no matter how great the person they are with is.
So what do you guys think?
Jennifer 40
Goldie#34- That quote is fantastic!!! I often say ‘Don’t let someone drag you into their nightmare’ so I’m happy I’ll have something to change it up a bit with
Sharon #35- Agree. I would also be hesitant to commit until sexual compatibility (along with all of the other kinds of compatibility people often look for in a romantic relationship) has been sussed out. And for me, just talking about it isn’t enough.
david 41
What’s interesting is I never hear my male friends going to “that place” — of concocting some/a theory to excuse inexcusable behavior.
I had to drop a very, very close female friend ’cause I couldn’t take the lies she was feeding herself regarding her very emotional abusive (either saying “I love you, I miss you so much” or “Get away from me you stalker psycho” to her)…I had to get off the ride.
Greg 42
@Miranda #39
Great insight. That type of thinking keeps a lot of girls in terrible relationships. ”He keeps coming back to me, so he must really love me.” Or they think “He will one day see that he needs me.” Pure trash. Guys who are jerks will stop being jerks only when they decide to change, and not because some girl they meet is so great. There’s nothing any girl can do to change that. Even the most beautiful girls to ever live will be abandoned by a person who is a selfish tool. Check any celebrity gossip rag if you don’t believe me.
Sherell 43
I am with you Evan! She needs to hear the truth, plain and simple. He is not worthy of your love. He has shown that time and time again! Are you thick!
Sherell 44
No you lost you dignity; quite a while ago!!
Terri 45
It seems that Rose accepts abusive men/relationships as normal. What I suggest is that she attend a counseling group of women who have had similar experiences. She will not be “attacked” but will be able to see herself and similar behavior in other women which can be very helpful.
Dancing Faun 46
Claire@28: I agree with you 100%. I also think that Goldie@23 was a very funny post and did not belittle the OP or contribute to the abuse.
Miranda@39: Yes, an excellent insight. I never understood that either. It’s also a classic “blame the victim” thing. The douchecanoe says: “If you were just prettier/nicer/more accommodating/more pleasing I wouldn’t be abusive toward you.” In other words, the douchecanoe doesn’t accept responsibility for the way he speaks or acts toward others. They’re “making” him do it b/c they aren’t speaking/acting/thinking/looking the way he thinks they should.
Terri@45: Good suggestion.
nathan 47
David 41 – I don’t know if it’s more common for women to excuse “bad/abusive” behavior or not, but I can think of several examples of men I’ve known or at least have been acquainted with (former co-workers) who made excuses for their partners, and put up with abusiveness because they were “in love” or whatever.
Claire 48
Oh Evan, by no means did I mean to coddle her, just refraining from kicking her while she’s down was more my point. There’s a way of saying things to get through to somebody, and there’s a way of saying things to be a bully and get shock-value readers for your blog. Yeah, I’m sure you’ve answered hundreds of questions like this before, and if you’re bored with it, I mean, there are different avenues you can take rather than belittling a reader for everyone to read.
You said yourself you’re taking a new (and I’m guessing edgier) approach to the same question. Which is fine (I appreciate it, but you don’t need my approval of your execution). But this woman was clearly emotionally abused. With that kind of emotional unstability, harsh…in your face…break you down to build you up…yeah, not really going to work. Probably going to make things worse. That’s all I’m saying. And if you’re bored with answering the same quesiton, then I’m sure you get pleanty of other emails you can answer.
Let me put it this way. I know you’re a new dad (congrats!). Would you want somebody talking to your daughter this way? Because if anyone spoke to mine this way, they’d be in a couple of casts.
Evan Marc Katz 49
Clairewiththefakeemailaddress – I stand by what I wrote. You can quibble with my tone and I accept your constructive notes.
And I would hope that my daughter would be able to distinguish between a loving man and a bad man. If not, she probably does need someone to shake some sense into her. Thankfully, she won’t have to look very far.
Goldie 50
I’m going to side with Evan on this. This guy has messed with Rose’s head so much that she cannot tell an emotionally abusive moron from a warm, fuzzy sensitive boy who, deep down inside, loves her and is just afraid to show it. When facing a similar situation, I do appreciate a wake-up call, and am thankful to my girlfriends who provide one
david 51
@dancing — “The douchecanoe says: “If you were just prettier/nicer/more accommodating/more pleasing I wouldn’t be abusive toward you.” ”
That’s EXACTLY what my ex friend’s boyfriend says to her, pretty much. If you were my puppet and don’t make me angry and don’t say things I don’t want to hear (even though they deserve to be voiced – HER VOICE, her opinions, her concerns, her needs), I wouldn’t be such a dick.
Joe 52
@ Flower White #12:
There are also now two generations of men raised by single mothers. I’d expect there to be a contributory effect there too.
Fawn 53
Siding with Evan on this one too. Evan, I like your tough love approach… don’t ever change. If I was in the op’s place, I would hope that someone would care enough to give it to me straight. Bravo!
Cheryl 54
I have to agree with Evan and most of the posters here. Run! As far away as you can get!
Btw.. loved the style of this post!
Marie 55
Yeah, I retract my “gentle nudging” comment. I didn’t really mean it for this scenario. If someone did this to one of my friends, I’d be seriously PO’d and unable to hide it…ESPECIALLY if they were considering that person a quality person after their actions. I suppose my personal approach is when friends make a mistake, realize their error, and are hurting from it or are unsure what to think I take a more gentle approach. But it’s hard not to get angry in this scenario where a guy is a cake eater AND mean.
Margo 56
This is good, this is sooo good. I don’t know if I’d call the guy psychotic, but I’d sure as heck call him a scumbag.
Tontae 57
I feel sad reading some of the comments – the areas of low self-esteem, co-dependency, emotional-psychological-physical abuse are subjects that most people know little about, and even less on how a person struggling with that kind of baggage will react, especially in a relationship.
While I do not know Rose’s background, seeing that she feels bad about the fact he does not love her as opposed to being treated so badly, is a clue.
Let’s be clear – victims of child abuse end up in two ways: as either abuser or victim.
Those who seek help by the time they are in their 20′s statistically have a better chance of overcoming the trauma and in seeking normal relationships.
There are a lot of relationships like Rose and DC. And no small wonder, they seem to find each other, unfortunately. Women are especially vulnerable – many of their coping skills are at a level a child would use.
I know that Evan has covered this area before and this is not his forte – he is not a psychologist, and can’t fix these problems – and as stuck as you feel, Evan, giving the same boring “get help, you don’t have to take this abuse” line – sometimes a troubled woman needs to hear that.
It is very easy for a person with low self esteem (who may have been abused) to lose their way and become confused and submissive in a childlike manner while in an abusive relationship (they start to believe what they are being told, just like a child)
Abusers just hone their skills over time, and they are not about healing or trying to help themselves or anyone else.
As a child abuse survivor, and someone who spent some hard time in relationships that were horrific, I support anyone getting help – sometimes a little tough love is needed.
Judgement? Never.
marymary 58
I defend Evan though he doesn’t need it.
i was abused as a child. Had the crap relationships. Read the self help books. Got counselling. I still didn’t see what I was doing wrong.
finally I found baggage reclaim, link to the left. If you think Evan is tough you should read some of the stuff on there. I found an older male counsellor and pretty much begged him to give it to me straight as I was sick of my relationship experiences.
some of us are so deep in we need a rocket up the arse to get us out. And even then many won’t get it, it’s more likely that the afflicted just continues in their thinking for another x years or forever. They aren’t that hurt by the advice, they ignore it as not applying to their wonder boy. Or to themselves as they are likely pretty, smart and a good catch. Can’t be a self esteem issue can it?
i hope the OP got out.
janie1256 59
Rose, you are a kind, decent, loving person – and you’re trying to “project” these qualities on a man who has shown you anything but. This is quite common. Some of us can’t believe that someone we like and care about can treat us so terribly so we paint a rosy picture of them in our minds instead of accepting what is right in front of our faces. We start making excuses for them. We start “analyzing” them (“He’s just scared.” “His mommy didn’t love him enough.” “He’s afraid of committment.” blah, blah, blah)
This is something I learned the hard way. If you have to start analyzing a man you’re dating to “explain away” or “understand” his bad behavior – that’s a really good sign that he’s a putz. You’re not his therapist, nor his mommy. Sometimes, I think we women waste our time with men like this because of issues in our past. We think love can’t be “easy” or “obvious” and that we have to “work” for it. We waste our time on the “doucecanoes” and miss out on the great guys out there who have REAL integrity. You’re trying to love a “boy-man”. Boy-men play games. Boy-men mess with your mind. Boy-men have double standards – and so on…….
The longer you waste your time and mental energy on this douce – the more likely you will miss out on someone out there who you can have a real relationship with.