I give mulligans, but it seems that men are getting away with bad behaviors and they lose respect for you. He only meets me on the weekend, Ive met his friends, weve slept together as Ive said yes to him, he offers things and I say yes, I am nice, I try to not be unreasonable….but it seems that he is still keeping me at arms length. Its only been 2 months.

He still has his online dating profile up? DO I give him a mulligan or not? He only texts me once a week and thats to set up a weekend date? Do I give him a mulligan or not? 

Evan says men fall in love with women who dont resist them, so I keep saying yes to the date, I say yes, yes, yes, YES, YES! But I dont get what I want. Do I walk away?! I try to be forgiving, reasonable, empathetic, but it seems that I am still the ‘weekend girl’. 

He just asked for another date and finally I said NO. I find that if you give men what they want TOO early, they lose respect. I cant keep saying YES…when in reality I am becoming the easy girl and men dont want easy girls. They want to chase you!

Everything is contradictory. Do this, DO that, I think I am not going to do anything anymore. I say yes in hopes that he will be more committed, but it seems that I am only letting poor behavior slide. When I forgive and give mulligans, it seems that he thinks its acceptable. 

Aghhhh….I am just going to avoid him now. I am not going to say YES anymore. I am going to say nothing.

I will admit, her behaviour really did confuse me for a while, and I couldn’t understand how she put up with it. Bottom line was though, she was absolutely right. When he was sober, he was completely lovely and a very funny guy. When he drank beer, he was just a big goof-ball. When he drank spirits, he was Dr Hyde..

I will never completely understand my friend, but she makes the best out of every situation. I might go to the bank with her, and there’s a line for at least 30 minutues. By the end of it, she will know everyone’s names in the line, she will have everyone rolling around in stiches,a few phone numbers will have been swapped and one time(if you can believe it), she got a pile of dour faced adults in a bankline, to join in a sing-a-long of row-row your boat.

Honestly, she was zany and full of life and one of the most amazing people. I probably wouldn’t have taken her approach with his drinking either, but I learnt so much for her extrodinary capacity to accept everyone for who they were, and still keep herself safe from any kind of harm.

She definately taught me, that you just can’t keep score, and you must be able to accept everything about some-one else to be with them, but you can still have the self-confidence to ask for what you want or need from some-one(IE start drinking beer instead of spirits) and believe that you are worthy of a response.

Given human nature, I’d say that it’s extremely likely that the boyfriend called Natalies a “dramatic [not very nice word]“, and he said it in public. And that behavior made him a jerk (and potentially crossed the line into verbal abuse) …
… even if she was being dramatic.
… even if she was being uptight.
… even though he was drunk.
… even if she had said something equally inappropriate immediately preceding his statement.

If your partner is upset, you should immediately defuse the situation, then discuss the situation later, in private, when everyone is calmer and sober.

Gem asked: (#50)
“you make it sound like while his behavior made the OP uncomfortable, it may be her assumptions and over-reactions to his drunk, but completely innocent behavior.”

Which is entirely possible. And if that is the case, I would feel that he would be completely justified in dumping Natalie for that reason. But he wasn’t justified in saying what he said.

Selena said: (#49)
“and whatever anyone has to say, including you Karl, is moot anyway. Six weeks have passed,”

This may still be relevant and current to Natalie. She may have decided to give her boyfriend a mulligan six weeks ago. How often does he get drunk? If he gets drunk again and behaves badly, then people have been perfectly clear that she should immediately dump him. He shouldn’t get a second mulligan.

That could still be a future event.

Selena said: (#48)
“some of us believe it is unacceptable.”

Having that belief is fine … unless it gets in the way of finding a relationship.

A lot of women on this blog are drawn to the charismatic men with whom they have chemistry. If you study that group of men carefully, I supsect that you’ll discover that most of them are very good (and frequent) flirts.

What happens to a woman’s love life if she’s initially drawn to the same behavior that she finds unacceptable one month later?

#36, that’s a very interesting story- I have to say that kind of behavior would literally have scared me off- I’m not even talking respect issues anymore, but actual fear. So- it’s pretty amazing that he’s turned out to be the way he is. I don’t think that this is the norm by any means, though.

In what way do you think this man behaved like a jerk?

You’ve defended flirtatious behavior because it doesn’t necessarily mean the flirt wants to take it farther. Therefore, without reading this guy’s mind, the OP cannot KNOW if he had any nefarious intent.

You’ve also said his infamous back-rub may have been completely innocent like when you touch a dance partner and just because it LOOKED sexy and flirtatious to the OP, it doesn’t mean he meant it that way. 

“We don’t have assume things that might or might not be true.”

Apparently, we do, because as you say, “Short of reading the man’s mind, how do you know his intent?”

And therfore, you make it sound like while his behavior made the OP uncomfortable, it may be her assumptions and over-reactions to his drunk, but completely innocent behavior.

It doesn’t matter that the dude probably had no intention of going home and nailing another woman, what he did in front of her eyes was disrespectful enough. The OP doesn’t need to be a mind reader to know that he DID flirt and behave suggestively to other women and he DID make himself look untrustworthy.  

Natalie asks, “Do I give him a Mulligan??? Or is this unacceptable???”

Ofcourse she can give him one if she wants too. But some of us believe it is unacceptable. That’s what comes from having a comment section – if someone asks questions they will get opinions  besides EMK’s.

Gem said: (#44)
“There is also *intent*”
“I’m sure there were flirtatious gestures included in that back rub to make it obvious”

I can watch my girlfriend talk to men whom I know she turned down multiple times when she was single, and I can see why they would have thought (and still might think) that she was interested in them.

Similarly, I’ve had numerous people get confused regarding which woman is my girlfriend when we’re out at one of our normal dancing hangouts. I might chat with, flirt with, dance with, hug or otherwise have some physical contact with a couple dozen women. The one I passionately kiss is my girlfriend.

Short of reading the man’s mind, how do you know his intent?

Natalie said: (original post)
“He then started to chat a girl right near me and rub her back (quite sexually)”

Why is everyone convinced this was a back-rub/massage?

If I’m chatting with a woman -and- rubbing her back, I’m standing beside her (where I can hear her and make eye contact), my forearm is across her back, and my hand is moving up and down a few inches (or back and forth a few inches).

And having given/received more back-rubs in bars than I can conveniently count (probably because I don’t expect sex to be part of the exchange), I can point out a few of the logistical issues. Typically both people are seated, one behind the other. That’s not conducive to chatting in a noisy environment. If both people are standing, then Newtonian physics become an issue: I apply pressure to the other person’s back, they take a step forward, and I take a step back. If I’m giving a backrub to someone who is standing, I’ll have one forearm across the person’s collarbones so I can counter the pressure I’m applying to his/her back. Since balance is an issue, I wouldn’t try to give a standing back-rub while drunk.

Steve said: (#26)
“These threads are almost like a legal workshop.   The facilitator gives us a mostly complete story.  People conjecture and interpolate.”

And the phrase: “Objection. Assuming facts not in evidence,” keeps coming to my mind.

We already know this man behaved like a jerk in this instance. We don’t have assume things that might or might not be true.

Evan’s initial advice holds true. Natalie can give the guy one mulligan if she wants to. If she doesn’t want to, it’s a moot point. If he blows it again, he’s established a pattern of behavior.