Does Online Dating Even Work?!

Does Online Dating Even Work?!

Dear Evan,

I was curious as to what your real opinion is of online dating. I did meet my girlfriend online, but after a year of painful struggle, meaning hardly any dates despite being educated, employed, and reasonably attractive. Friends of both genders tell that their experiences have been hard in different ways. My guy friends (also educated, attractive) complain that they get no responses and female acquaintences tell me that they get so many emails, etc, that they don’t know where to start-and often do nothing. They don’t have time to “date around” several times a week.(actually neither would I). I assume that the problem exists due to security. Women, being more vulnerable than men, are more hesitant to date online, so you get a situation where there’s a lot more men than women. Aside from my own luck and the trendy radio ads and sexy commercials, it seems as if no one’s happy.

Geoff

Dear Geoff,

Glad to hear you found someone special, and even happier that you spoke up. Most of the people that write about online dating write about what’s wrong with it. It makes sense. I mean, that’s what news is – emphasize the bad, misery loves company, etc. Turn on the TV and it’s not about kittens being saved from trees, but drive-by shootings. That doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of kittens saved from trees.

Go to one of those websites that reviews dating sites and you’ll see the same. Average review will be 2 out of 5 stars or something like that. Why? Because people who get married from online dating sites rarely get back online to post happy reviews on websites. They move on with their lives, while everyone else complains about the sites and the awful people on the sites.

I don’t deny ANYBODY the negative experiences that they’ve had. I just urge people to find some healthier perspective on the whole thing. A private client told me just this weekend that she’s quitting online dating after three bad dates in a row. Here is what I wrote back to her:

First of all, I’ve had EVERY bad dating experience you can possibly imagine. I’ve had women write me nasty emails, insult me over the phone, ignore my phone calls, stand me up, refuse to thank me for dinner, refuse to reciprocate in bed… Are you getting the idea? And yet I still run around as this super dating advocate, because I believe it is the best prospect to find someone special. If you choose to wait for lightning to strike until you go on another date with the “right” guy, you might be waiting a long, long time. Like, FOREVER.

Abstinence isn’t the answer. Mustering the courage to persevere in light of bad experience is.

Listen, you might think I’m nuts to keep on preaching positivity. That’s fair. All I know is that it’s freakin’ HARD to meet someone. We have our small lives: our circle of married friends, our work buddies, a few single people, and that’s it. And as you get into your mid-30’s, the bar scene is really old and set-ups have become a bit of a joke. While it’s nice to say, “I want to meet someone organically, where our eyes meet, so I can feel chemistry”, that simply doesn’t happen very often. This is why I believe in online dating. Not because it’s perfect – not by a long shot. But because it creates opportunity where previously there was none. My first love, in 2003, was a Filipino woman that worked in the pharmaceutical industry and lived in a different part of town. I NEVER would have met her in “real life”. But I did meet her on Nerve.com. My best friend in New York is marrying a man she met on eHarmony. My sister is in love with a man she met on Nerve. My sister’s best friend is in love with a man she met on eHarmony. I have dozens of clients who are married, engaged and in love with people they met online. And these are just the people that I know well.

So let’s acknowledge the flaws of online dating: the liars, the bores, the flakes, the crazies, the morons, the perverts, the poor spellers, and so on. These people exist offline as well. They just have access to you online. So as I see it, you have two choices: quit online dating and make a supreme effort to go to as many parties, coffee shops and adult education classes as possible OR try to find a way to avoid the worst of the online daters. The third, and most popular choice, is to quit and wait for your soulmate to drop out of the sky, like “The Secret” for love. Yeah, keep praying, people.

Your best bet is to keep dusting yourself off, learning from your mistakes, and staying in the game. Sure, sometimes you’ll get burned. But sometimes, with enough perseverence (as well as luck, timing, a good profile and a positive attitude), you’ll fall in love. And if it hasn’t happened to you yet, you can say “What’s wrong with these terrible people on these awful sites?” Or you can ask, “How can I make this work for me, despite the obvious flaws?”

You know where I stand. But I’ll tell you, all it takes is one person – and you’ll be standing right with me.

4
5

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Shrew

    When my father heard I was online dating he was deeply sceptical. He told me a story about a friend of his whose internet date had turned out to be morbidly obese as evidence that it was an avenue to be avioded at all costs. When I responded that

    a) There are worse things in life then having dinner with someone who you find unattractive, and
    b) His friend was at fault for not exchanging photos before meeting up

    he was totally unconvinced, and more then a tad miffed that i should question his judgement. (Bear in mind that there weren’t even PCs around he was last single)

    Anyway, my dad’s friend has subsequently met a great woman on the internet with whom he is in a committed relationship. Has my dad’s attitude changed- of course not- in fact i doubt he even recognises a connection.

    My point, is that when people decide they’re going to form a negative opinion about something- negatively and consistency go out the window- and that’s why the internet horror stories receive such disproportionate prominence

  2. 2
    Loverville

    Like you said… of course it has its pros and cons, like anything else in life.

    I had a four-year relationship with someone I met online. And I’ve also met inconsiderate guys who “disappeared”, smart guys, not-so-smart guys, great guys, fun guys, guys who liked me (but the feeling wasn’t mutual), as well as the other way around. All types.

    Yes, it’s a numbers game. I believe that you have to put yourself out there and take a chance if you’d like to meet someone.

  3. 3
    Janet

    I think you’re totally right that online dating is much better than the alternatives, even if it’s not perfect, but your reply begged the question.

    The reader raised specific and common problems that people have with online dating, and you probably have better insight than anyone how to deal with them. For instance:

    1. What’s a normal response rate? Should a guy who gets 5% response rate try to improve something, or should he feel like that’s about average?

    2. If a woman gets a flood of emails on a dating site, how can she weed through them quickly and fairly?

    I’ve really enjoyed reading your blog.
    Cheers,

    Janet

  4. 4
    Lanie

    OK, here’s my take on the situation,

    Dating online works. You gotta look at it in a freakonomics style! And it seems every man on my dating website has read the darn book, so you guys might be able to relate to this and ladies, listen up, it works!

    There are a given number of possibilites out there in the world for you. You date online, and you expand your possibilities for meeting a match. But as there are a lots of frogs in the real world, there are a lot of cyber frogs as well. So, if you get hundreds of responses as a woman, you’ve got to cull through the bogs to get to the 3-5% that are worth responding to. Then of that 3-5%, the rate of success may only be 1. BUT 1 is all you need!! So, to answer teh rate of return for guys: if the standard guy puts out 50 fishing nets for a fish and he gets a couple responses back, that falls in line with our response rate as women!

    As for women weeding through the hundreds of ads quickly, let’s be honest, go for the ones that are aesthetically pleasing to YOUR eye, keep a list of possible secondary ones and then discard the others. When you’ve picked a handful of ones that look most promising, take the time to really read their profiles and be honest with yourself!!

    My friends and I have foudn this process works pretty well and quickly!
    Good luck
    Happy Matching!

  5. 5
    hunter

    I heard, there are only, three dating sites, that have the most people on it. I believe it was match, american singles, and Yahoo. Even then, the ratio, if you are in your 20’s, is not good for men, but, I was told, it increases if you are looking for a mature woman….

  6. 6
    Collins

    Online dating does work for some people; for others it doesn’t. The ladies have the advantage here because they get a flood of msgs from guys within minutes of posting their profiles. We guys, on the other hand, get very few responses to our profiles other than form letters from girls who look like porn stars & are most likely spammers. Just like, during sex, millions of sperm race toward one egg–so too in online dating, hundreds of us men compete for the attention of one woman, so our prospects of ever getting a reply, much less a date, are bleak. Thus I believe that online dating works better for women than for men.

    1. 6.1
      Megan

      We, Women receive many msg but when we get to meet the men, they act like they like you and then never  call you afrer, they are looking for beautiful, even though they are ugly, looser etc. if you are skinny, very pretty or petit you have better As a woman. And thus is my experience and my friend’s. 

  7. 7
    hunter

    to collins,

    smart, intelligent women select with their ears,,,,,,,,, it is in the wording, your profile has to say, what a woman needs to hear……

  8. 8
    JerryC

    Why Internet Porn is better than Internet Dating…

    Internet Dating: 90 percent of women on it are dogs
    Internet Porn: 90 percent of women on it are hot

    Internet Dating: Takes lots of time, little payoff
    Internet Porn: Takes little time, big payoff

    Internet Dating: Identifying multiple personality factors that ensure compatibility
    Internet Porn: Big tits/hot body = compatibility

    Internet Dating: To find that special someone who will love you for being you
    Internet Porn: To never worry about that special someone turning your life into a living nightmare

    Internet Dating: Waiting days or weeks to see if she’ll return your e-mails
    Internet Porn: Waiting seconds to download pics from “Hootersland.com”

    Internet Dating: You’ll never have to go to a singles bar again
    Internet Porn: You’ll never have to go to a singles bar again

  9. 9
    Ruby

    Hmmm. Online dating doesn’t work for average looking women over 30. I tried it for a year and only attracted men who seemed resentful that I was ‘all they could get’ and seemed to expect sex as some sort of ‘pay off’ for spending an afternoon with me. I entered into the experience with an open mind, viewing online dating as an opportunity to meet men outside work and my social circle, and was looking for friendship first, with the possibility of a relationship if we clicked. I’m trendy, well-groomed but average looking, and I’m very slim but petite (5ft). Suspecting I’m no man’s fantasy woman, I posted my same written profile with taller vital stats and a prettier girl’s photo – yep, approaches went through the roof. I know I should have expected more ‘success’ as a sweet leggy lady anyway, but that’s when I decided to leave online dating.

    1. 9.1
      JohnG

      Yes, you are absolutely right, Ruby.  And this is even true with men:
      Just for fun, I have tried a variety of things with my profile description, from a very thought description that tries to give women an idea of who I really am to simply saying, “Please ask and I will tell you.”
      And how did my responnse rate change based on this?  Not at all.  In fact, I could litterally put any type of description in my profile, and the only thing that seems to make any difference is the picture I post.
      We all have unflattering photos of ourselves, and when I post these, no one flirts, winks or responds to my e-mails (I don’t send the winks and flirts.)  But when I post a “good” picture of me, I get a fair number of all of the above.
      And, of course, this is just human nature, and we all do it.  But I had really hoped to find the real deal who would like me for who I am and who would still love me when I’m 64, but I don’t think I will ever be able to find that on an internet dating site.

      1. 9.1.1
        avery_t

        I have tinkered with my profile too. The only real impact has come from altering my height and income. The taller I “am” (or list myself as being), the more replies I get. The higher my income, the more replies I get. Same photos. In part, this may be because women in my area (NYC) tend to set the search parameters as 
         
        5′ 10″ and up
        150k +
        When I list as 5′ 9″ and leave my income field empty, I get no views. 
        When I list as 5′ 11″ and leave my income field empty, I get some views. 
         
        When I list as 5 ‘9″ with an income 250-500k, I get a lot of views and some good messages.
         
        When I list as 5′ 11″ with an income of 250-500k,  I get a lot of views and a many, many messages (some of which are good, some of which are hate mail, and some of which ask if my profile is real). 
         
        In reality, I am 5′ 8″ with a high income. 
         

        1. JB

          Well Avery you’ve just proved what I found out last year by “tinkering” (but really already knew). When you’re 5’11” or taller and make 100K a year or MORE of course. You have much more value to women. Obviously the taller you are and the more you make your value increases. You really want to get crazy? Throw in a Masters or PhD….LOL I really don’t think we need to do a study to find out women prefer tall wealthy educated men over the opposite.

    2. 9.2
      ginger

      Really?  Guess I never messaged you.  Guess your type just doesn’t stick around.  Or you get my messages and ignore them.  This is why online dating sites don’t work.

    3. 9.3
      Matt

      Honestly umm.. I’m generally very attracted to women with your stats :P The problem with online dating, from a man’s perspective, is honestly… I don’t get replies from women that are most definitely in my league. I’m 6’3″ and overweight but not a slob… I lift weights and stay fairly presentable. I present myself very accurately online.. I do not get messages.. the 1 message I might see over 2 months will be from the absolute bottom end… basketball-figure, no car, no job, no social skills. This is not an exaggeration either.

      1. 9.3.1
        Tom

        My experience is the same as Matt’s. I have had success at school, bars, and party’s connecting with girls that are “in my league”. However, when using online dating sites, I don’t get any replies back from these exact same type of girls. Suddenly I’m the elephant man? I pick up girls in real life that are cute, not models, but they’re definitely good looking. I can’t even get an average looking girl to simply reply back to a basic message online. Something’s off. I’m a good looking guy with a very strong income for my area. Changing my profile around does nothing. Most women I see put hardly any effort into theirs. Since I still meet girls out and about I only use online dating as another way to meet people. Thank goodness, as I’ve still yet to meet anyone who’m I’ve contacted through online dating sites.

  10. 10
    dadshouse

    In the past 8 years, I’ve done plenty of online dating, enough that I’m considered an internet dating expert. My conclusion? It doesn’t work. As I’ve said in my blog, chemistry is felt, not articulated in checkboxes and online prose. Plus, expectations are too high going into an online date. You meet under the pretense that the other person might be “the one”. When they aren’t, you fell deflated. But a good date should make you feel the opposite – elated about the potential and possibility!

    The best way to meet people to date is through friends – BBQs, parties, clubs, social groups. The common bond is a great starting point. What do you have in common with someone else who online dates – you both subscribed to the same service?

  11. 11
    JB

    Like a lot of people I’ve been internet dating since the dawn of the internet back when the sites were free….ie: Early “Webpersonals” was one of the first as was “American Singles” and even Yahoo personals was originally free. I’ll even go back further than that, before the internet we were using photoless newspaper personals with voice mail and sending letters and photo’s by snail mail…lol(quite the chore mind you back in 1989)

    To answer the question “Does online dating work ?” The answer to that is an opinion ….but is it really ? If you go just by the numbers like what percentage of people actually make it to a “phone conversation” or a “coffee date” or a “5th date” or the unimaginable “I think it’s time we take our profiles down and only see each other”….lol let alone marriage. I think the numbers would show you’ve got a better chance of being struck by lightening on a sunny day than meeting your “soulmate”….lol That being said …can you meet people you wouldn’t normally meet and have some fun as well as a pile of frustration & aggravation thrown in for good measure. ABSOLUTELY !!
    Will women get more dates and spend less money ? ABSOLUTELY !!
    Will most men never get a response let alone a date ? ABSOLUTELY !!
    Does online dating work ?? ABSOLUTELY !! for the people that are making millions running the sites as well as the very few people who meet someone and “hit it off” for ANY period of time.

    I think Evan should write the definitive book on online dating and how it’s changed the landscape of dating & relationships in modern society.
    IE: Women no longer have to leave the house and they can have 10 dates a week. They control pretty much every interaction online and the pace etc… They have so many options it even boggles their own minds to the point they get addicted to getting emailed everyday by idiots telling them “you’re hot”. Single moms who have no time to date or go out now have plenty of male companionship and interaction etc…
    Women no longer have to go to a bar or singles event and wait to be approached by guys they don’t like. They can put up their blury picture from 5 yrs and 30 lbs ago and get tons of meaningless attention as well as deicde who they interact with and for how long…(usually 2 or 3 emails..lol) You get the drift as I’m rambling here. I’d be happy to co-author Evan. Let’s do it ! Unless it’s already been written and I have’nt found it ????

  12. 12
    dadshouse

    I’ve thought about this some more – turns out the online dating service sector is nearly a billion dollar a year industry. There’s money to be made by people who promote. Last I checked, the “online dating doesn’t work” industry isn’t quite so lucrative…

  13. 13
    vino

    My not-so-scientific conclusions for the women 25-40 range. I’ve done match. Criteria – body type is slender, athletic or average. All other criteria open. I won’t look at the rest.

    70% Single mothers – out. I’m not dating single mothers.

    Remaining 30% – Here’s where it gets funny.
    Weed out the ones who are ugly, or who are lying ( ie – ‘athletic’ means 5’6″ and could play linebacker for the 49ers). – 60% of the remaining 30%, so 12% of the available candidates are left.

    Of the remaining 12% – start weeding out the non-compatible things. I love the 5’5″ girls who want guys 6’2″ & up. Smokers, out. Weed out the women who expect they guy earn 2-3x more than they (you know, the teachers who want their date to make $150k +), weed out the attention whores who have their bikini pictures on there (good to look at, bad to date) or multiple pictures of dresses showing tons of cleavage. Very subtle. (and yet, they complain when we look…)

    Further weed out the ones of pictures with professional athletes & actors (high mileage, VERY high mileage).

    Weed out the plastic queens – the black eyebrows and unnaturally blonde hair, usually accompanied by very tan (real, UV, or spray-on) skin, fake nails, etc…see also attention whores and money hungry above.

    Weed out the narcissists – the bodybuilders & fitness competitors, triathletes & every-other-weekend-is-a-race types. They’re addicts, maybe not of booze or drugs, but that same addicitive behavior is turned to fitness, etc. (Don’t get me wrong – I love working out & do it often, just not as a 2nd job. I also like to eat fun stuff, not count every calorie & food type)

    Once you slog through that remaining 12% there’s little else left. The reality is that good, attractive, emotionally & physically healthy women don’t need to use an online service. It comes to them. It simply isn’t worth the time effort & expense to sort through all of this, if you’re a guy.

    My 2 cents.

    1. 13.1
      Lea

      Vino is absolutely right, good, attractive physically fit women or men are not dating on line as they usually have a life!

  14. 14
    vino

    Ugh. Here’s a fun little profile. 38 Y.O., no kids. Attractive pictures, though, including boob job.

    “I am a romantic, someone who believes Prince Charming still exists.”

    Translation – I am a princess who doesn’t like reality as it applies between men & women.

    “First impressions count! It is a must for me to feel chemistry!”

    Translation – YOU better be hot, because even though I am 38 years old and 8+ years past my best looking days, I have fake boobs & botox. Therefore I am hot.

    “I am searching for a partner that does not shy away from commitment.”

    Translation – I am seeking someone who is blind, deaf & dumb to relationships, and would jump off a bridge willingly. I also think men a puerile who won’t grow up & commit to a woman, ignoring my responsibility in choosing men who won’t commit.

    “Creative, independent, professional, sophisticated, and articulate female seeking a gentleman, who is: charming, romantic, refined, thoughtful, spontaneous and determined to find their soul-mate.”

    Translation – Self-absorbed, over-estimated self, seeks sucker out of bad romance novel who as a ‘gentleman’ is willing to pay for everything.

    Oh, I didn’t mention she had her date needs to make $150k +. Her income info is blank, but she does mention being self-employed.

    At least she didn’t have cats.

    1. 14.1
      starthrower68

      If that’s the prevailing attitude, I’ll stick with the cats and be happy with no date.  I’m sure a Golden Girls scenario in my later years will be preferable to some resentful guy who felt he had to settle.

  15. 15
    cinnamon

    Ive never tried on-line dating and I guess Im not planning to do it in the nearest future. Here are just a few of my reservations:

    1. Essentially, I do not see myself using a supermarket approach to address an issue of a pretty existential nature. I think the below quote from one of the posters is a good illustration of what I mean by supermarket approach:

    As for women weeding through the hundreds of ads quickly, lets be honest, go for the ones that are aesthetically pleasing to YOUR eye, keep a list of possible secondary ones and then discard the others.

    2. Then, there is an issue of how you perceive your, so called, private sphere. I do not see myself placing a photo (not to mention a photo showing the cleavage) and a lot of personal info on a public website where it can be viewed by basically everyone. (I guess people differ very much in what they perceive as a part of their private sphere as opposed to public sphere.)

    3. I would be afraid that men who set themselves an OBJECTIVE TO FIND A GIRLFRIEND would want such a relationship to progress too quickly than what I would find comfortable.

    4. I would NOT set myself an OBJECTIVE TO FIND A BOYFRIEND. Well, I do not believe that a soulmate might drop out of the sky, but I do believe that sometimes we just come to a realization that this someone who is around makes so much difference that you just cannot imagine the world without them.

    Besides, a value a good story :-) So to a question “So, how you guys met?” I don’t want to answer “On match.com”

  16. 16
    Evan Marc Katz

    I normally don’t do this, but I can’t help myself.

    Cinnamon:

    1) If you’re meeting tons of great guys to date in real life, good for you! You don’t need online dating. However, if you aren’t dating lots and are wondering why your love life is dry, you’re spiting yourself by not going online.
    2) See #1. Wanting to have a love life without making an effort to achieve it is empty. Wanting to date online and worrying about anonymity is similar. It’s like wanting to be an Olympic swimmer without getting wet. Hey, if you’re a politician or celebrity, I can see why you’d want to stay anonymous. But if you’re concerned about what others would think – uh – everyone else there is dating online, too. No shame in that.
    3) You’re assuming that every guy who dates online is the same. I couldn’t imagine a more faulty assumption.
    4) It’s great to be a happy and healthy single. It’s counterintuitive to think “your prince will come” when he has no idea where to meet you. Online dating is the most obvious spot to meet likeminded single people. But hey, go try the gym and let me know how it goes.

    And to your last point: Yeah, the hundreds of thousands of happy couples who met online are really crying that they don’t have a better story to tell at parties.

    I thank you, Cinnamon, for providing a valuable service to all the people out there who think like you do. Until you challenge your preconceived notions of how things are (Online dating is weird, it’s for losers, it’s for desperate people, love will find you when you least expect it), you’re doomed to the same results you’ve already been getting.

    Warmest wishes – with love.

    Evan

  17. 17
    vino

    More from the files of “What not to write in a first email”

    “Funny we both have XXXX XXXXXXXX in our list of books recently read. Love his simple, straightforward advice. What type business are you in?”

    Subtle.

  18. 18
    huntergreen

    Dating online is beneficial long-term to those to who own and promote the sites, bottom line is money making, not quality. They sell people and the few success stories they have, but no one really knows the statistical outcomes of meeting online. The divorce rate in the US is still very high, even higher for second marriages. We’re still doing something very wrong to have the cornerstone, most important relationship of our adult lives, fail…

    I guess if you’re not too busy and don’t mind having to psychoanalyze and background check you’ve got it made. My findings are most people online are not living authentic lives and are not attractive to me. They can sure “sound” like they are, but only after time, sometimes a lot of time, can one see the truth. I want to meet the healthy people who are living good quality lives, and that success, for me personally, only happens in person. Being in communities where people know people helps reduce the amount of sleuthing I have to do. I have found the best quality of people off-line.

    To me, doing the online thing takes too long to filter out who the liars are because some people have had lifelong experience at it and can be quite good. Meeting the person in person usually seals the deal or ends it. I am often quite surprised at how carelessly, haphazardly, and cluelessly some people go about this very important process. If they’re a flake at dating, I don’t need any further information!

    With the proliferation of spammers, married people, general scum online, I have had much better success online dating in the past than recently. I no bother with online dating sites, I am looking for authentic folks who live the lives they say they do, not those who are online due to boredom, loneliness, lack of social skills, for whom this is merely a game, etc.

    Online dating works for some, but for me it is way too much work for something I was paying money for when the quality people don’t seem to be online anyway.

  19. 19
    JuJu

    vino,

    like attracts like.

    That’s all I am gonna say.

  20. 20
    Andrew Hunt

    Dating Online is not perfect. But really annoys me is when girls I ask out from dating sites put Online dating down yet they are there to chat to. I use Online Dating as a gateway to meeting someone and arranging to meet up. I can tell you I have had three girlfriends.
    All from Plenty Of Fish.com.
    The only way I can understand why people try to talk me out of using online dating is because they are so confident that they don’t need online dating to meet someone. But why are they on there then?
    It is hypocritical. I am a shy man who just wants to be given a chance and I have met loads of wrong people online. But as I mentioned earlier I have met girls from the net so that is the main reason I keep using Online Dating sites. It isn’t the site’s fault it is the people I choose to talk to. Sorry if it offends anyone but I sometimes don’t get why confident people are online. They are capable enough to meet someone for real in a club or something.

  21. 21
    vino

    don’t shoot the messenger juju, just b/c you dislike the message.

    more from the what not to write archives of dating…

    vino: “thanks for the wink. how is your Tuesday?”

    Mz X: “it’s sunny & beautiful out, so it is all good. A little more about me – I’m from the east coast, undergrad in xxx, law school in xxx. I livedin xxx,then I moved here. So what’s your story?”

    vino: “A lawyer? My momma told me to stay away from lady lawyers…they were all trouble. ;-) I also hail from the east, lived in xxx for undergrad,then in xxx, now here. I see you like wines. Any particular favorites?”

    Mz X: “I like malbecs and since I lived in NZ for awhile, I like pinots too. It’s cool you lived in xxxx. I spent a semester in xxxx. It was lots of fun. So what is it you do?”

    mmmm. So subtle. I found this in the email archives. Aside from the fact her pictures sucked (blurry & poorly lit), she’s a lawyer & therefore ‘out.’ Reason – preoccupation with what I do for work. Not one thing about my profile (ie- me) , but made a point tell me 2x she is a lawyer (it’s in her profile too). Essentially, all she did was tell me where she’s lived so that I would give her my resume. blech.

  22. 22
    JuJu

    Okay, let me attempt to word this in a way that would likely pass the censorship here: you, vino, complain how all women are just cold-hearted calculating bitches, but did you ever stop to think why a genuinely nice and kind person would want to be with you?

  23. 23
    cinnamon

    JuJu,
    re: 22
    That was below the belt.

  24. 24
    vino

    Juju, please read my previous posts. Nowhere have I ever said ‘all’ women are heartless bitches or anything so absolute. If you wish to insult, at least be marginally accurate. By the way, by so insulting without provocation, please consider the possibility you prove my point. Have a nice day.

    cinn,

    A pleasure seeing you , as always.

  25. 25
    JuJu

    All right.

    I’ve led the horse to water.

  26. 26
    Cilla

    Vino,

    I gotta say I’m as cynical and sarcastic as the next person (I even composed a form letter for the many mismatched suitors who flooded my box–e.g. “Clearly, from your photo, you are not 45. I’m not dating Gandalf, Santa, or the guy holding the pitchfork in ‘American Gothic.'” ) But you sound like you have an enormous chip on your shoulder. Not every woman who asks about your profession is a gold digger. For most people it’s just a safe conversation starter. We’ve been warned to stay away from so many hot button issues, it leaves us precious little in the way of innocuous banter. Would you be happier if she asked, “What medications do you take on a regular basis?” or “How often do you change your sheets? or “Where do you stand on a woman’s right to choose?” Sheesh.

  27. 27
    vino

    Cilla,

    First, I’m reprinting previous things from online dating – where there was an extensive profile indicating local restaurants I like, several recent books read, places I’ve gone, activities I enjoy, funny movies, etc. There are pictures of my dog. There are at least a dozen things to ask about. But what’s the first or second question – “What do you do for work?” Nearly every time. Who cares? I’m not working with them….They care. Blech.

    There are several threads on this site on the subject of money & dating, so I won’t rehash those arguments. I’d suggest reading them. One look at match.com that shows how many women expect their ‘dates’ to earn 2x what they earn is nothing short of shocking.

    On the subject of safe conversation starters, how hard is it to say, “Oh I see you like wine. Have you been to Napa/Sonoma?” Or “I read Freakanomics too. What was your favorite part? Mine was…?” Or, “Oh, you like hiking? Have you ever been to Yosemite?” I mean, how hard is that really to start a conversation? Answer – it isn’t. So please spare me the criticism for pointing out disingenuous behavior.

    Sheesh.

    “Weve been warned to stay away from so many hot button issues, it leaves us precious little in the way of innocuous banter.” What? Victims of not knowing what to say? Puh-lease. Don’t be so obvious is all. You’re still being less-than-open, but it’s easier to tolerate.

    “But you sound like you have an enormous chip on your shoulder.” Ah yes, I’m unreasonably angry for pointing out people who clearly don’t care about me, but what I can give or do for them.

    “Not every woman who asks about your profession is a gold digger.” – Most are – see articles quoted in other threads.

    Oh, and….

    What medications do you take on a regular basis?
    – Aspirin & ibuprofen

    How often do you change your sheets?”
    – Where’s the wet spot again? ;-)

    Where do you stand on a womans right to choose?
    Choose all you want. Just don’t come looking for $ from him because of YOUR choice.

    Have a nice evening

  28. 28
    Scott

    Well after reading this thread I finally realize I am not the only male who has not had any luck with dating websites. I’ve tried them all from the free ones to E-harmony, and nothing has worked…

    I’m a 39 yr old, attractive, educated, active, employed, single dad who doesn’t have time to go all over the place looking for “the one”, so I thought I would try it online. UGH…

    Here is what I have discovered, and feel free to comment or correct me if you think I’m wrong…

    1. It ALL comes down to the picture. Nothing more, nothing less. If the woman does not find you even semi-attractive, you won’t even get a visit to your profile.

    2. IF you get the visit to your profile, it then comes down to the “two” vital stats, height and weight. If you are too short or too tall, too fat or too thin, this is the next eliminating step.

    3. IF you make it past 1 and 2, then it comes down to your occupation and how much money you make. No matter how much the woman professes she doesn’t care about money or a job and that she is very independent, she wants a man that can take care of her. If you don’t make the amount she is comfortable with, you’re done.

    4. IF you have kids under the age of 18, you’re done at this step. She is single and wants ALL the attention. IF she has kids under the age of 18 and a really good parent, she’s probably not on the dating website to begin with. She is “too busy” to date.

    5. If (and only if) you make it past these steps, will she finally read what your profile has to say.

    What I don’t get is that most women’s profiles tell you all of the qualities she is looking for in a man and how important they are to her. But none of these qualities are ever the “eliminating ones”. As long as you pass through steps 1 and 5, she would be happy to take a man that blows her off three times for a date, tells her she’s fat, beats on her for fun, and tells her how much he hates her family. And you know what, if he broke it off with her and called her back in a month, she’d be happy to take him back.

  29. 29
    JuJu

    Scott,

    I can’t see what exactly surprises you. Wouldn’t 1 and 2 be the eliminating factors for you as well? 3 is so deeply rooted in our biology and evolution that I don’t know how many generations it will take for the situation to change. I personally know a woman with an exaggerated sense of responsibility (in all areas of life), and she is absolutely unable to accept the man paying for anything at all, but that’s an aberration rather than the norm.

    But what I wanted to comment on was 4. I once dated a man with a child from a previous marriage, before I had any preferences on the subject. He had his daughter every weekend. Whatever parties and events I was invited to I had to attend alone. (That particular situation was exacerbated by the fact that on weekdays he worked until 8 or 9 pm.) And sooner or later the question arises: why do I need a boyfriend at all? I felt like I was on my own all the time anyway.

    If I have a choice (and I do), why would I agree to the additional liability of someone else’s child? Besides, it’s not like I am asking for anything I cannot offer.

    Of course the qualities they list mean “after the basic prerequisites are fulfilled” (most commonly, the physical attraction).

    I am sure the process is exactly the same for [many] men. Including your very last point.

    1. 29.1
      Dan Christensen

      I don’t have a clue who you are, what you do, or why you find it necessary to be so confrontational with, essentially, strangers. I won’t speculate or offer any intuitive input. I do think, however, that you are the very woman that these posters have been describing. You make more money than them, you would never “date” them because they don’t fit into your myopic vision and are probably alone and convinced yourself that you “like it that way”. I have no idea why you just can’t go to the store, buy what you need, go home and feed your cat (Disclaimer: I own 8 of them). Let the adults who actually are too busy with real lives to go to bars (not to discount those that don’t drink or smoke) and let us be who we are. Your picture makes me believe that you are under 40 and (I only have anecdotal evidence to back this up) are an ageist. I actually sympathize  with your plight (i.e. I still remember being 30) but your interjections, no matter how poignant and verbose add nothing to the dialogue those of us that are trying to improve our lives by finding another human being to connect with on an essentially spiritual level are trying to have. Go back to your room and watch some more True Blood. Peace, out 

  30. 30
    JuJu

    By the way, as far as the numbers are concerned, you forgot age.

    I don’t even answer the e-mails that do not include a picture [in which I can actually see the person] and the vital stats. I can’t afford to.

    1. 30.1
      Gwen

      I agree with you. Don’t argue with misogynists

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