Comments on: Don’t Call Me Sugar

By: E

Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:50:50 +0000

I have a simple rule. If two people can’t effortlessly negotiate who’s going to pay for what without acrimony, any putative romantic relationship between them is bound to fail. If you feel like she’s taking you for granted, say so. If you’re already out $50 bucks getting your hair done to impress this guy and don’t want to drop another $25 for a mediocre dinner so he can feel equal, say so. Chances are if the girl doesn’t care if you feel taken for granted or the guy read too many PUA books and refuses to treat anyone ever, you don’t want to see this person ever again and it’s best to find out now.

By: starthrower68

starthrower68 — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 03:23:05 +0000

Yet another example of how it’s a miracle that two people manage to make to marriage.

By: moonsical

moonsical — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:15:43 +0000

I used to pay my own way. Always. Period. Until I was sure of our relationship and then allowed a man to pay for things. I did not want to feel obligated or beholden in any way.

However, it does seem that there is some sociological precedent for men to provide, and I wonder how many men I’ve offended by insisting on paying for myself.

Then there’s wages. Men usually do make more. One beau I had made over three times my wage, and he always paid. And was glad to. Sometimes I got the tip, or coffee after dinner.

Dating is thorny and there is much to be excused or overlooked in this area at the start. I’d say generally the man can expect to pay initially.

When transitioning from dating to a couple, now is the time to have very frank conversations over money and how to pay for dining and entertainment. I’m all for a percentage based on income.

Money is a crazy topic. There’s a book, “Your Money and Your Man,” by Washington Post Money Columnist Michelle Singletary and though I’ve only read her columns, I recommend it. It’s amazing to me that I have friend going through divorces and break-ups that still do not know much about their finances as a couple. Wow.

moon

By: Lynn

Lynn — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:01:34 +0000

I consider myself a modern woman, but I still feel most comfortable when the man pays for the first few dates, say the first 2 or 3 times you see each other (unless I ask him out, at which time I expect to pay the entire check). From that point on, if both people are working professionals, I think it best to alternate on picking up the whole check, rather than going dutch. It is a demonstration that both people are “invested” in the relationship, and that you are taking care of each other.

The reason why I am most comfortable with letting the man pay the first few times is that there is such a strong sociological precedent for men needing to be “chivalrous” or “the provider” or “in charge,” and I have gotten the feeling from a few men that if woman is too insistent on paying, that we take that feeling away from them. I do think it is almost always appropriate to offer to contribute, in case his financial situation may be prohibitive. But come on, if he is not able to pay for 2 drinks or dinner or whatever he asked you to join him for, maybe he should have saved up enough cash before he asked you out?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:35:03 +0000

Um… How about listening to your date. The first two weeks or so should be on the guy – closer to a week if the dating is more frequent, a little longer if you both are taking your time. But here’s the deal, don’t come right out and bluntly ask about their finances, but rather check out the other persons profession and lifestyle. Their car and house or apartment should let you really narrow down your potential mates economic ability. Ladies, if you insist on steak and he’s a grad student with two menial jobs, well then your radar is off. If the fellow is a newly minted partner in his firm, then he needs to act like it. I’ve had great dates in fancy steakhouses and divey hot dog stands (and fancy hot dog stands too) and its about the person you’re dating. And ladies, here’s a way to start sharing the cost of dinner now that you’re sharing the workplace – offer to pay the tip somewhere around the fifth date (so long as the service was good). I have even on occasion asked (with the excuse of not having any small bills) if the lady wouldn’t mind helping out with the tip. This allows us guys to get a little window of how generous our potential partner is, and everyone should be a good tipper regardless. Its a low cost, non-insulting way to help out, and eases the woman into helping out if the two incomes are comparable (or if the lady makes more.)

Just a tip, if you’ll pardon the expression.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:02:10 +0000

This has been a quandry for me just now dating for the first time ever. I have had 2 very long term marriages. I was always under the impression that men pay for the dates. I am always careful to not cost them too much. I don’t get the most expensive item on a menu and I don’t have more than one drink and never dessert. If I hear of a good event, I suggest. If the guy doesn’t run to get tickets or whatever, I may go alone or offer to treat them. I have dated 8 men in the past year. All but 1 paid for everything. I have asked men I know about this. It’s conclusive that most men feel they should be the ones to pay. I made the mistake of making sure everything was fairly equal while dating my second husband. Then I got promotions and made more. I also had 2 little kids and he had none. What the marriage developed into was his expecting me to financially foot the bill so he could do whatever he wanted. He left me because I could not back him a business he wanted to try. He is on his next victim now. So I had a date with a very handsome fellow on Match. He was a professional, chiropractor, massage therapist, accupuncturist. He lived in a historical part of town and owned 4 lots of property. He loved to wine and dine and see plays and kept hinting about traveling. One night, late, we had been out at a city event and he decides he is hungry.It’s late and I am not. So he asks if we go to a restaurant, can I pick up the tab. Without hesitation I said NO. He looked perturbed. What would happen is, I would agree and he would order appetizer, entree, bottle of wine…..and all I want is water. SO no way. I made my point known. I told him the fellow pays and I treat on occassion but that’s how I date. He attended my formal office party, had a terrific time, I had fun and we get back to my home for tea and he says, “OK, I want you to know that when I date a woman I EXPECT her to at least cover her expenses on the date. That’s how I am, it’s equality. ” I told him, then it wasn’t a date. Be very careful in how generous you are with a man until you’ve really established the relationship. I have had the unfortunate experience of their being a motive to a man wanting a woman to pay for things. I am a very liberal woman, but traditional at the same time. I believe it’s a standard everyone has to at least discuss and make a choice on. I believe if a man is interested enough in you, that it’s his pleasure to pay for the date. I never set high expectations or complain that I am not in some high class restaurant. I am always grateful and make sure to always thank them for wherever and whatever a man pays for.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 17:02:04 +0000

Oh, and I don’t agree with a prior post where what you spend to maintain yourself or hire a babysitter is in any way a standard for why men pay. That is YOUR choice and you pay for what you can. Then I am not one that feels my nails have to be done to eat at Red Lobster or attend a darkened smokey venue for great music. I don’t believe any of those reasons are justification or rationalization for why the man pays for a date. If a man is worried about my nails being painted as opposed to how deep and beautiful my eyes are or how “fixed” my hair is as opposed to how funny I am……he ain’t worth any of it anyway!

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:10:54 +0000

Datingmonkey is the most sensible person I have ever read.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 31 May 2006 02:21:56 +0000

Congrats on the publication of the new book! You ever going to post again?

By: Datingmonkey

Datingmonkey — Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:20:13 +0000

Good grief. What is all this? Isn't everyone making it really complicated? If you're going on that many dates, don't you sort of find out about each other a bit? You know, if you're skint you tell them, and you do something you can both afford.

Or ... and this, in my books, is only good manners: you GO DUTCH. If a man insists on paying for dinner, then great. If you've insisted on paying for dinner and she hasn't returned the favour, but has thanked you a lot and tried to insist on paying herself, then - fine. That's your choice.

And as for the comment about 'hidden costs'. I really, really don't get this. If I choose to have a manicure (we don't do that much in the UK - we're heathens, remember), or have my hair cut, or buy a new pair of shoes, THAT'S MY CHOICE. And the day I ever dress 'for a man' will be the day I give up.

I'm a bit fat, got rubbish hair, smoke, shout, swear, argue, have a manicure about twice a year, am a stranger to waxing unless I'm on a promise, and think it's polite to go dutch if you've just met someone - you're both in it together. I also occasionally get taken out for dinner by lovely men, and dress up and look as lovely as I can (not bad on a good day) because it makes me feel good, and more confident. But that's my choice.

If there's something I make an effort with when I'm on a date, it's them: listen to them, have fun, be interesting, talk about stuff, find out about them. Whether or not I've got a manicure is hardly the point. And if it were, I'd no more want to be with that person that I would want to fly to the moon on the back of a pig.

Great blog by the way. Things are different over here, you know. Do let me know if you need a nice, scruffy, ironic British perspective on the lovely world of internet dating ...

All best wishes

DM