Guys Who Call Too Much Or Guys Who Don’t Call Enough?
The biggest turn-off that women have in dating is the guy who calls too much.
You know him. He met you and was instantly smitten. He tells you how beautiful you are five times per conversation. He starts talking about how amazing you are even though he barely knows you. He texts, emails or calls a dozen times a day. He acts like you have a future together although you’re pretty sure you don’t know his middle name.
And strangely, despite all this attention – BECAUSE of all this attention – you are immediately turned off. The new guy is a shameless puppy dog, eager for your affection, desperate to win you over to feel as strongly as he does.
It never works. It’s too easy. It’s too lame. It’s too…something. But the eager guy never earns your respect. All because he was TOO excited about you.
Contrast that with the man who YOU’VE got a crush on. You have incredible chemistry with him, but you have no idea where you stand. He tells you that you’re beautiful…when he’s not dating other women. He sends you text messages…once a week when he wants you to come over. He treats you amazingly…or at least he did the last time you saw him. He gives no indication that he wants a future with you, and little indication that he even wants a present with you.
And you’re completely ga-ga for him.
What’s wrong with this picture?
The very qualities that are the MOST indicative of the potential to build a life together – consistency and dedication – are the ones that you value LEAST.
I ain’t blaming you; as a dating coach, I’m just pointing out what may not obvious.
What’s most important is not how a guy makes you feel on a date. Sure, it’s great when you’re tipsy and tingling with excitement in anticipation of his kiss. But that feeling is useless if he doesn’t make a consistent effort to see you.
Literally ALL that matters – if you want a healthy relationship – is how quickly he follows up to say, “When can I see you again?”
This doesn’t mean you’re suddenly going to be attracted to the stalker-guy. I’m not advocating that you remove the restraining order.
What I am saying is that you should stop giving a free pass to every cute guy who doesn’t call in a timely fashion…and start valuing the very guys who make you feel special.
Clearly, it’s easier said than done.
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80 Comments »Filed Under Dating
starthrower68 1
A happy medium, that’s all we ask. I’ve dealt with both ends of the spectrum but never the middle ground. I’ve had two experiences when the guys were in love within 2-3 weeks of nothing but phone calls and e-mails, not yet meeting, and not really even knowing me. I’ve had the flip side where they start to pull away, send mixed signals, or become ambivalent, and it made me anxious, and no matter how hard I tried to stifle that I’m sure the vibe was there. Not that it made any difference either way because these guys were not going to commit to anyone. The whole thing, be it Mr. Desperate or Mr. Could Care Less is exhausting.
starthrower68 2
BTW Evan, I see you’ve been “reading my mail” again.
Deanna McNeil 3
I love this post. What practical advice. I don’t get it either why I let my feelings run away with me but the more I learn to keep them under control and pay attention to what is really going on around me, the happier I have become over the years with the quality of my relationships.
Diana 4
This really begins not with valuing the guys who make you feel special, but with valuing yourself first. If you value yourself first, you won’t find yourself in this type of “You’re really great, but I’m going to do what I want when I want because I know you’ll still be hanging around for me when I’m ready” situation. Women need to be emotionally and independently healthy and strong, yet with an open heart and mind.
But I know what you’re saying, Evan. It’s all good.
Selena 5
I met a guy on the beach once. We started talking. We went to have a beer. I gave him my phone number. He turned out to be the guy in example 1. He would call repeatedly. Long conversations, mostly of him going on and on. He made all these plans of things we were going to do in the future (horseback riding??!, etc.). Talked to me like I was “Instagirlfriend”. After 45 min. on the phone with him I was afraid to stay on any longer for fear he was going to tell me the names he had picked out for our future kids.
When I stopped answering the phone every time, he started calling every half an hour. All day long. In one call I did answer he told me he had been riding up and down the streets near the beach where we met hoping to see me. !!!! My apt. was 3 blocks up from that spot. Thank God I wasn’t outside. If he knew where I lived he would have been at my door all the time.
This guy CREEPED ME OUT. He was waaay too much too soon. We hadn’t even had an official first date. He didn’t even know my last name. To me, this is a completely different animal than a “nice guy” showing attention and interest. This type of behavior borders on the pathological if indeed it hasn’t already jumped over the line with both feet.
I’ve also met example 2 before. After allowing myself to be “strung along” for awhile by a couple of these guys when I was younger, I learned. If someone only wants to spend time with me once a week or less, all they want is a casual relationship. Fine if that happens to be what I want too. If not? Don’t waste time hoping it will develop into something more. Someone who is JNTIY early on is never going to be that into you.
Most men I’ve met over the decades haven’t fallen to these extremes. There is balance in life thankfully.
delicia 6
I think the key is for women not to FALL for these guys (or girls, if the situation is reversed)…. if women can see it as just “having fun” and they’re ok with that, great. But for women who want relationships, these guys (the ambivalent ones) are dangerous. I think most women do end up realizing this but it can be a long, painful, lonely road. To think that the guy that texts for a booty call every once in a while, seems to forget for weeks on end that you even exist, and doesn’t make sure you know where you stand with him is or ever will be anything more than a physical thing is just delusional.
Cilla 7
Hmmm… interesting that this post is directed at women and how they need to stop bending over backwards for the guy who never calls. Why not a post for guys on how to make the appropriate amount of contact with a woman they’re interested in? (Perhaps you’ve done that–I didn’t do through the archives.)
I know, I know, most men won’t bother reading (or heeding) dating advice, it’s a woman’s genre, etc.
Sad. It seems most of the time all we can do is learn how to react to bad behavior.
starthrower68 8
@ 3 & 4,
That really is the trick, as in so many other areas of life; not to be ruled by our emotions. Emotions are not wrong, but they are not facts. We need to listen to our hearts but also be guided by wisdom. While we do want an open mind and open heart, we need to maintain enough objectivity to make a good choice. And really, alot of what wisdom is, is making a choice today that you’ll be happy with well into the future.
Karl R 9
When corresponding, I generally try to respond within 24 hours. I can generally find the time. It tends to limit correspondence to once (at most twice) a day. And it doesn’t set any unreasonable expectations for the future (i.e. that she’ll always hear from me within the hour).
It’s a happy medium.
1badgirl 10
You know Evan, you gave similar advice in a prior post…something along the lines of “if he’s not making plans to see you again, then the behavior on the ACTUAL DATE means nothing.”
I want to say thank you for this information! After reading several of your posts, I have been able to regain control over myself in regards to a certain FWB I’ve had for the past four years. The “relationship” is going nowhere, I’ve stopped getting the benefits part of the deal, and he’s turning into the guy-who-barely-calls…so now I barely call…it will dwindle off, and because of your posts, I feel strong enough to let him disappear.
I think it’s a cruel trick of nature that allows men to control the way in which the relationship does or does not progress. Women decide IF he gets the time of day…the men spend the rest of the “relationship” dicking around with their latest conquest. Is there a way for women to be in control? …I’m going to be working on that because I’m tired of “you guys” always winning.
http://www.4badgirlzonly.wordpress.com
1badgirl´s last blog post…9 Bitch-ass-n*%^^a My Battle with Somtimey Dick
Jennifer 11
The reason i don’t like guys that seem to like me too much too soon is because they don’t know me, so what do they really like? The picture of me they’ve got in their mind. And if they get to know me more and i’m not quite like the picture they’ve dreamed up, then they are gonna be disappointed. I don’t care to be up on imaginary pedastals- the fall is always real.
A guy that shows good initial interest and likes me more and more as he learns more about me- that’s a good bet.
And I agree with Diana #4- the better your relationship with yourself is, the more unlikely it is you would actually fall for booty call/once a week text guy.
Evan Marc Katz 12
@Cilla.
1) 75% of my readers are women. I literally cannot write a post that balances every single perspective. Life is too short.
2) I already wrote the post to which you’re referring.
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/am-i-%E2%80%9Cneedy%E2%80%9D-if-i-want-to-talk-to-a-woman-i%E2%80%99m-seeing-online/
Steve 13
Cilla May 29th 2009 at 06:04 am 7
I know, I know, most men won’t bother reading (or heeding) dating advice, it’s a woman’s genre, etc.
I think the success of the book “The Game”, the success of that movie “The Tao Of Steve” and an explosion of PUA sites belie that belief.
Maybe it is an issue of how to package the content for the market and not a matter of the existence of a market.
Personally, I hate the way advice is packaged in the PUA genre. I think 98% of it is ordinary time honored non-objectionable advice wrapped in arrested adolescent locker room talk.
It would be great to get the same issues discussed in a way that fits men who are grown ups and who aren’t scared/completely ignorant of women.
BeenThruTheWars 14
@1badgirl, #10:
The mere fact that we women decide “IF he gets the time of day” is exactly what puts us in the driver’s seat in relationships. “Men gather and women choose.” We have little control over who gathers (they need to be attracted to us, we need to be their “type”); but from that point on, you betcha it’s up to us how (and indeed, if) the relationship goes.
The single biggest thing that will give you control over how your relationships progress is having self-esteem when it comes to men, and being willing to walk away if you are mistreated or taken for granted, or are unhappy/unfulfilled for whatever reason. It’s similar to a business negotiation: the people who are willing to say no and walk away from a deal that is unfavorable to them are the ones who invariably are more highly valued by employers. Because they know their value (realistically, not narcissistically) in the marketplace.
Lance 15
Find the right balance, be energetic and positive, don’t flood or smother, keep flirting, keep your cool. The guy who is a gushy, smothery puppy dog is NOT a good partner because he’s the guy who turns into a suicidal stalker after you dump him, and he’s going to get dumped at some point. If the guy likes you and he’s mature, he’ll make the right moves.
Lance´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day
Lance 16
Also, @Steve, have to disagree about the PUA material. Some of it sucks but a lot of it is cutting edge material on attraction art and science. You can’t find that stuff anywhere else.
Lance´s last blog post…I Grabbed Some Chick’s Ass On Memorial Day
delicia 17
To 1badgirl and others that commented about self-esteem, that’s why it’s so important to have a mental checklist (I’m not referring to physical traits) of what you will and will not tolerate in terms of treatment BEFORE it gets to the point where you are emotionally invested and sucked into the drama. After getting burned a few times by these types of guys and realizing that they never *truly* cared about me the way my family and friends do, I was able to see things clearly and let go of these unhealthy situations. Evan said he’s “just pointing out the obvious” but it ain’t so obvious when your emotions are involved…. this is a message that many men and women need to hear so thanks EMK!!!!
delicia 18
oops, I guess Evan said “what may not be obvious”…. but you guys catch my drift.
Ava 19
I’ve also had guys who called all the time in the beginning, who thought I was the greatest, and then flaked out a a few weeks or months down the road. These were men I’ve also liked, and I would feel like as soon as they felt they’d won me over, they’d freak out and back away. Personally, it doesn’t bother me if a guy I like calls or emails me a lot (well, maybe not a dozen times a day!), as long as he’s stable and sincere. Unfortunately, those qualities haven’t been all that easy to find! Now, I take any attention with a grain of salt and see if it can stand the test of time.
Cilla 20
@ Evan
Thanks for the link–I had a feeling you must have addressed this at some point. Still sad that 75% of your readers are women, since we are already so much more enlightened.
@ Steve
I not only dislike the delivery in the PUA genre, I dislike the content, as well. It’s gone so far beyond giving regular guys a boost of confidence or counsel on approaching women. What used to be “time honored non-objectionable advice” has become a mean game, where men are taught techniques like “negging.” Then women respond with books like “Why Men Love Bitches,” and the war continues. What we need is a round table of professionals in the field to sit down together and come to some consensus, just as scientists do, rather than sniping at each other or countering each other’s advice with even more contentious suggestions.
JB 21
Women complain when guys call “too much” or “not enough” …lol
Why don’t you all just make a law telling us exactly when and how often we SHOULD call to please all of you.
Puhhhhlllleeezzzzzzzz. Too many variables here.
What planet does 1badgirl live on that she thinks men “control everything”….lol Certainly not the planet of online dating….lol
Or my favorite online dating site http://www.womencontrolyou.com
Robyn 22
I think the bigger problem with calling too much, by either the man or the woman, too early in a relationship or before there even IS a relationship is that the enthusiasm is usually based on projected feelings and imaginings about the person instead of on experience and the truth. I get panicky when someone gives me over-the-top compliments nonstop and calls me daily when they don’t really know me because their enthusiasm for me is usually based on the most surface of information – my picture, the info in my profile, and maybe a brief phone call.
I dated someone last summer who was this way – far too “into” me, without really knowing me. I finally brought it up one day – the fact that I knew tons about him but he never really ever asked about me. I offered him some info but it only made him uncomfortable. I realized that he was really interested in me because I had the patience to listen to him, but he wasn’t interested in returning the favor.
Be “into” someone you really know. Be INTERESTED in someone you don’t – and by being interested, I mean, ask questions, and get to know the person. From that, a relationship can actually grow.
JuJu 23
LOL, preferring one guy over the other has nothing to do with the number of calls.
The simple way to explain it would be that you usually like a male that’s generally popular with females. He can afford to ignore you for weeks on end.
The “puppy” is usually not a desirable male, and that’s why you don’t like him, not because he calls too often.
If a man a woman is crazy about is just as crazy about her and shows it – nothing would make her happier! This kind of romantic bliss is just a really rare coincidence.
There is a quote, I believe by Gabriel Garcia Marquez: “Do not waste your time on those who do not strive to spend it with you.”
It is difficult to see the objective reality when you are infatuated, but just try to remind yourself that it’s purely hormonal, keep breathing, live in the moment (instead of in your head), and you should be able to deal with whatever life throws at you.
JM 24
So true about the happy medium. I think it goes both ways that men and women like a little mystery when they first get to know someone and too many phone calls is complete overkill, especially when you don’t really know each other yet. I think there are ways to let each other know that you are both interested without completely smothering the other person in the process. A little space is always a good thing!
Cilla 25
JuJu’s right–if a guy I’m really into calls all the time, it’s suddenly not too much–it’s just right LOL.
If I’m on the fence about a guy, and he calls a lot, it will push me away.
It’s nice when a man asks, “Can I call you tomorrow? What time works for you?” And then actually calls when he says he will.
starthrower68 26
Oh that’s rich, JB, considering how women are supposed to be attentive but not too attentive, interested but not eager, appropriately detached but not cold, and ready to have sex so that you get to “test drive” us, but not too ready too soon so that you don’t loose respect for us. You want to start casting aspersions on women for our rules, then perhaps you should look at your own gender first.
Selena 27
What is “negging”?
Anon 28
I agree re: the number of calls… if Justin Timberlake were calling me 10 times a day you wouldn’t hear me complaining!!!! LOL.
delicia 29
The “guy calling too much” issue is kind of analogous to women and thinking if they have sex too soon it’s the kiss of death for a potential relationship. Obviously every situation’s different, but neither one would likely be the ONLY reason that someone wasn’t interested. Chances are, they just weren’t that interested to begin with. And I’m not talking about stalker types calling 10x/day I mean calling a few times a week or even every other day at the beginning of a relationship.
starthrower68 30
The two times I had this happen, both guys also said within 2-3 weeks (without having met me and nothing but phone or e-mail conversation) that they were falling in love with me. They didn’t even know me! It felt like they were just throwing the word “love” around like a cheap piece of lawn furniture and that it wasn’t me there were in love with, but that they were in love with being in love. They didn’t even know enough about me to consider me special above all others.
Steve 31
Selena May 29th 2009 at 12:22 pm 27
What is negging?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=negging
Cilla 32
@ Selena
“Negging” is giving a woman a sort of back-handed compliment, that’s actually a subtle insult meant to erode her self-esteem. For example: “You look really pretty in that dress. Next time, you should wear one a little shorter.” Instead of focusing on thinking she looked pretty, the recipient of this “compliment” will be worried that her dress was frumpy and not short enough to look “hot” for her date.
starthrower68 33
Ah yes, the MO of the narcissist and mysoginist. I just didn’t know it had a name. One knows when she is being sincerely complimented and when she’s being “negged” so to speak.
delicia 34
Negging is completely ridiculous. Any man or woman who would give someone a backhanded compliment with the sole intent to erode his or her self-confidence is an ABSOLUTE DOUCHEBAG and should seek the advice of a mental health professional ASAP. Nuff said.
Selena 35
Thanks Steve & Cilla. I actually did google “negging” and hit the urbandictionary site after I posted. Amusing.
Does this actually work to get girls interested in the guy though? I have a hard time imagining any intelligent male using this “technique” past the age of 23. Anyone who did that to me I would automatically assign to the “jerk” catagory. Even when I was 20.
Karl R 36
starthrower68 said: (#26)
“women are supposed to be attentive but not too attentive, interested but not eager, appropriately detached but not cold, and ready to have sex so that you get to ‘test drive’ us, but not too ready too soon so that you don’t loose respect for us.”
I have to agree with delicia (#29). If I’m very interested in the woman, then the woman could be eager, aggressively attentive, ready to have sex the first evening … and I’d be delighted.
If I’m only slightly interested in the woman, then it’s possible for her to be overly-attentive, overly-eager and too quick to get intimate.
Whether you’re male or female, you will sometimes run into people who are definitely interested; you can break any “rule” and they’ll still be interested. You will sometimes run into people who are not interested; nothing you do will change that fact. And you will run into some who are on the fence; this is the only time that your actions will affect the outcome.
It sounds like you’re getting too stressed over circumstances that are mostly outside of your control.
Melissa 37
This definitely DOES NOT apply across the board… that woman are turned off by the puppy dog.
I LOVE puppy dog guy. I CRAVE puppy dog guy. The guy who lavishes me with attention scores HUGE points with me. whereas mister “play it cool” turns me off.
The PROBLEM I seem to face, is that they come on like the puppy dog straight out of the gate, lavishing me with attention, calls, wanting to see me 24/7… and then they put on the brakes, right after I’ve gotten used to the attention.
I would just LOVE to find the man that shows me consistency. The one I’m talking to now calls me about every other day. I would like him to call me everyday because that’s what I’m most comfortable with… but I accept this and I won’t say anything because at least he’s consistent. And that to me, is more important than anything.
Erika 38
The problem I have with guys who call too frequently and shower me with compliments is that it feels like it really has nothing to do with me personally–I’m just a prop for the guy to project all his fantasies onto. I just don’t trust men who are too into me too quickly, because I don’t feel like they actually know me well enough to feel that way!
Then again, texting once a week is not enough. At some point in the past few years I decided that I wanted someone who wanted me back. When I was dating I briefly dated a guy who would text me once a week. So I started seeing other people. And then I met someone really marvelous and forgot all about the texter. A month goes by and I’m pretty much into a new relationship when texter appears again. I text, “I’m sorry but I’ve met someone else.” He texts back, “Well, I guess it isn’t me.” I don’t respond. Then he texts again, “Is it because I’m too distant?” HA HA! (I’ve been with the other guy going on two years now!)
Paul 39
I gotta disagree with all of ya. What happens to me is I get a certain amount of communications all going on at the same time in different stages with different women, several of them usually because I’m so damn irresistible, and some just quite frankly slip through the cracks! Sorry girls!
I got a call from one last night I hadn’t talked to in almost a week and she ended up saying “why don’t you call me next time” and I said ” why? I kinda liked getting a call from a woman”!
So ladies, I’m assuming you’re all “independant” women here, why don’t YOU CALL THEM for once! What are ya, old fashioned?
Cilla 40
@ Paul
We’re not calling because Evan says we’re supposed to be practicing the mirror technique. How’s that for a stalemate?
delicia 41
Yes, Paul, I am old-fashioned, because if I were calling a guy and he was never calling me, how would I know if he really liked me? Per the perfect example you gave, you and your kind are NOT the type of men I want to date… and the calling thing is a good way to weed out the players. Thanks for making it so easy for us to pick up on your immature ways.
Selena 42
Well Paul, I can only speak for myself, but I’ve always called guys…when they have called me. Apparently I’ve been doing the “mirroring” thing my entire adult life without ever knowing there was a name for it. Thanks for that Evan.
And you Paul, you irresitable hunk of male flesh you…are you calling this particular woman now since she has called you? Does having a woman call you make you more interested in her? Or less, given how *busy* you are?
delicia 43
@ Selena, the second part of your post…..LOL!
JuJu 44
#’s 39 & 42:
Precisely! It’s, like, if he never hears from her ever again, he wouldn’t be able to care less!
You really did answer your own question, Paul.
starthrower68 45
@ Karl #36
You’re correct, I have no control over whether someone wants to be with me or not; but it’s constantly drummed into our heads that “if you want to catch him and keep him you need to do this and this and not do this or this, blah blah blah”. There’s the conundrum.
@ Paul #39
Most women don’t want to do the chasing. And if you’re forgetting them, they’re probably forgetting you too.
Paul 46
You guys crack me up! Delicia, you took my tongue in cheek thing wayyyyy to seriously! It was a joke! Yes I did call her first actually, but sometimes instead of asking for their number, which might make them feel uncomfortable, I do offer mine so they can call when they are comfortable with it. It just seems more gentlemanly. It’s their call but it’s usually a mutual thing. And yes, I have called her back since she called me, but it true sometimes that someone you intend on calling doesn’t get called because you are busy, life is busy, and there are other girls that you are communicating with. It’s hard to keep up with them all! I keep telling myself it only takes one. So, actually sometimes, I do like to see that she at least has enough interest in me to call me. Sometimes. I like the chase but not if she is not sending signals that the chase is on. It’s a delicate dance, but a fun one. It did feel good to get her call, although I did feel a little guilty because I hadn’t called her. I’m actually old fashioned too.
Michael 47
The only thing I care about “negging” is…
…does it get the results that you want?
starthrower68 48
Which results would that be, Michael? To get her in bed or to subtly insult her by giving her a compliment with the subtle dig?
Karl R 49
Michael said: (#47)
“The only thing I care about negging is does it get the results that you want?”
I suppose that depends what kind of results you want.
If a woman figures out what you’re doing, it’s going to backfire.
The pick up artists (PUAs) recommend the technique for women whom I would describe as (externally) 9s or 10s … and internally a lot less appealing. Therefore, you might be “winning” someone who’s not that much of a prize.
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/should-i-date-a-7-or-hold-out-for-a-10/
And from what I can tell, every advantage that negging is supposed to provide can be gained by other means.
Negging is supposed to provide the following advantages:
- It confuses beautiful women, because the PUA isn’t kissing their butt like everyone else.
- It piques their curiosity for the same reason.
- It creates a challenge, since the PUA isn’t falling all over himself to impress the woman.
- It creates the impression that the PUA doesn’t think these women are special just because they’re beautiful.
I can accomplish the same thing by not kissing anyone’s butt, by treating friends and acquaintances better than strangers (even if the strangers are beautiful women), by being polite to everyone, and by not making exceptions for beautiful women.
I find it ironic that PUAs have developed a “technique” to create the impression that they aren’t treating beautiful women any different than anyone else. This isn’t rocket science. I just don’t treat beautiful women differently than anyone else. I’ve accomplished the same goal.
downtowngal 50
“The biggest turn-off that women have in dating is the guy who calls too much.”
….uh, actually bigger turnoffs include a guy who doesn’t make the effort, who talks about himself incessently or who allows the door to be slammed in my face because he won’t hold it for me; but that’s a different story.
There’s a difference between a guy who goes all OCD about calling and one who doesn’t. I agree, a guy calling and texting 5x per day after you’ve just met is a but creepy.
But a guy who waits a week to follow up after a date and doesn’t call regularly tells me he’s not into me. I had the latter issue with a guy I dated; after a few months he claimed he didn’t want to ‘smother’ me. turns out there were other issues and his lack of folloiw up was a red flag.
So guys, if you’re into a girl, after your first date, call the next day, thank her for a lovely time and ask when you can see her again (if you hadn’t already at the end of the date). Another nice touch is to call her that evening to make sure she got home ok.
This is different than calling/txt 5x the next day. It shows you’re confident and respectful.
And any woman who complains that you’re smothering her when all you’re doing is calling 1x/day to check in probably isn’t into you.
M 51
You know, I have a male friend who recently started to put some serious effort into bettering himself and getting emotionally ready to be in a relationship so he could get into a healthy ltr. Before he told me that he was putting in all this effort to be a better partner I had started to lose faith in the male gender, thinking you were all like those pua’s that use lame things like ‘negging.’ I just have to tell you that is incredibly insulting, and any woman worth having would be intelligent enough to be insulted by your backhanded compliment, and never take, or make a call to or from you again.
Thank God your not all that way!
Selena 52
I had a partner once who observed, “You would have a Perfect body if you worked out a little.”
I quipped back, “So would you.”
End of negging.
Steve 53
@M, post #51.
You had it right the first time, we are ALL *that* way.
downtowngal 54
I agree w M. Negging says more about the guy than the girl, it projects the PUA’s insecurities. And if the girl is smart she’ll walk away.
I’m amazed at how many guys try to ‘complement’ me with sarcasm. On the one hand it makes it easy for me to weed out the a-holes, but on the other it’s disconcerting that people passed the age of 25 still act this way (and some women tolerate it).
I love it when a guy compliments my dress, smile, etc. if it’s what he truly thinks. Women with high esteem (whether a 10 or a 2) can pick out a phoey PUA in a second.
Guys, bottom line: act respectful and confident.
M 55
@ Steve, post #53.
Maybe innately, but SOME of you have enough common sense to know not to let things like that slip off your tongue.
Behavior like that is abusive in my opinion, you are putting someone down, it’s belittling. If the man I am with doesn’t respect and admire me, than there is no reason to continue in a relationship with him. And if he finds it necessary to put me down to accomplsh his own agenda, whatever it be, than that is likely a very insecure man who will just have more problems down the road. I wouldn’t stick around to find out.
Lance 56
@downtowngal @etc: Negging is ancient PUA stuff, like ver 1.0 and we’re on ver 4.0. Really negging is part of teasing, and teasing is being playful, which I think everyone on this forum would agree is a vital part of attraction. The more recent PUA stuff is much more solid and useful in a positive than the stuff you’re thinking of.
Lance´s last blog post…Vegas, Baby, Vegas!
JB 57
Lance is right “negging” by in large is just PLAYFULLY teasing someone/flirting(if it’s done correctly) and it goes BOTH ways.
If you don’t “get it” too bad. It’s also WAY off topic here…..yadda,yadda,yadda……..
“negging” has nothing to do with when and how often a guy should call a women etc…………………
Cilla 58
Nice try, JB. Negging is NOT playful teasing and most men know this. It has nothing to do with flirting and everything to do with intentionally pushing a self-centered, ego-driven agenda. It typically does NOT go both ways.
Cilla 59
BTW, I cringe to think what PUA ver 4.0 is teaching.
Paul 60
That’s right about negging…all it is is teasing and playfulness. And when done right, women love it! They love a guy that is not so overwhelmed with them that they can tease a bit. Whoever wrote those definations about the word negging is most likely a feminist with an ax to grind. We do it to our brothers and sisters all the time. If you can’t do that in a well meaning fun way, then good luck with women…most women will NOT respect the nice guy, the polite guy, the doter, etc. Why do you think that most women are attracted to the bad boy? What women really want is the bad boy who won’t be bad with them! But will they ever tell you that? That they like a guy who can stand toe to toe with them and not take their garbage? No. Because most women are lacking in the honor department, especially in regards to online dating…you girls are viscious!
Cilla 61
@ Paul
The cringing I mentioned in #59 has begun.
I’m curious to see what the other female readers have to say. I can’t think of a polite way to phrase my response.
JuJu 62
Cilla,
why even dignify something like that with a response?
Uh huh, “viscious” we are.
vlh 63
I’ve gone out twice recently with a guy who is so flakily inconsistent I want to quit seeing him, but at the same time, I wonder if 2 dates is enough to completely rule him out? He’s smart, funny, charming, only 1 year older than I am, we have fun when we go out, and I actually really enjoy talking to him on the phone (I’ve dated a lot of dull men who are moody and untalkative, so it’s a relief at this point to find someone who can actually carry a conversation). I want to give him a chance, and I do have a tendency to be overly picky (which is probably why I’m still single at 40). How do I balance the need to be open-minded and let flawed people have a chance (since everyone is human & therefore flawed) with the need to be self-protective (or my tendency to be overly self-protective) and not get involved with someone who might have some real issues. Here’s the deal: he failed to show up for our first date (it was a blind date, from an ad on craigslist). I sent him an email berating his rudeness, but offered to reschedule since he’s in the military reserves, and I could understand how something might come up on a weekend and he might have to cancel (although he *should* have called me…) He told me he thought the date was “tentative” not “definite” (huh?!?!?). We rescheduled anyway, and I showed up for the second date, as did he. He seemed to like me a lot and we made a date to see each other a second time. I already felt let down by this guy, so I guess I wasn’t very friendly to him on our second date, and since then he has called me a couple of times, and yesterday we talked on the phone again. He said he would call again later that night but he didn’t. So, I’m getting fed up with Mr. Tentative-but-not-Definite-Flakiness. At the same time, he seems to be very attracted to me, but this sort of behavior makes me think he’s blowing hot-and-cold. Granted, he’s been divorced for 16 years, and he told me about another girl he was seeing (this year? last year?) and that he’d told he’d call when he came back from overseas, but when he got back he didn’t call her. So, he is at least aware or admits he has inconsistent behavior, but I don’t know what to do with him. I guess he’s going to disappear on me too at some point?? His parents divorced when he was a child, so maybe he has abandonment issues?? Is this typical behavior of someone with abandonment issues?? Should I just go out with him a few more times and see how it plays out? Maybe it’s new relationship jitters for him? I am perplexed…
starthrower68 64
I don’t think there’s a way to follow up #59 other than to laugh at it. In terms of the “lacking in honor” comment? Well it takes one to know one.
Robyn 65
vlh,
I think you’re spending too much time analyzing someone you’ve hardly spent any time with and who’ll give you little more than the time of day. Give yourself more credit and realize that no one deserves to be treated the way he treated you, and then move on. Don’t contact him again.
starthrower68 66
VLH, I gotta back Robyn on this one. I have asked myself every single question you’ve asked when dealing with a “Mr. Flaky”, and the fact of the matter is, it makes no difference why they behave that way. If you feel anxious and confused about this situation, then the best thing to do is walk away from it. Analyzing his behavior won’t change it and will exhaust you.
starthrower68 67
Oh, and a question about “negging”? Which woman appreciates the passive agressive suggestion she could be hotter if…..(insert your dig here)? It’s obviously designed to put a woman in her “place” without coming off as outright sadistic.
Jennifer 68
vlh,
You are trying to look for an explanation or reason for your dates behavior: his parents are divorced, he has abandonment issues, etc. etc. Not only are the conclusions you are reaching very likely innacurate, they also don’t matter. He doesn’t seem to be on the same page as you.
You think something is definite and he thinks its tentative. He says he’ll call you back and he doesn’t- again i bet he thought it was ‘tentative’. Doesn’t make either of you wrong, but you seem to be on different pages.
Don’t wait for him to ‘make it up’ to you because i doubt he thinks he’s done anything wrong. If you can’t go out with him without being mean (like u mentioned you were on the second date) you shouldn’t go out with him anymore.
Date him if you’d like, but try not to look for all of these reasons and explanations for his behavior patterns that you don’t like. It’s gotta be exhausting and i’d venture to say it’s not doing you much good. Unfortunately i don’t see this going very far- if we are already being mean on the second date and having a lot of misunderstandings, things aren’t looking good!
namelessintaipei 69
It’s about finding the right guy — the inconsistent bad boy you’re really into but breaks your heart, or that sweet decent man you’ve known for months and is just plain nice. The excitement or the consistency. Which is it?
I chose consistency. Sure, he SMSs me in the morning to greet me a happy day, calls me after he gets off work and before he goes to bed, but then again, that’s just a way for him to communicate how much he misses me and that he cares for me. Some may see he’s clingy. I’d rather think that he’s into me. And of course, with a guy as sweet as that, we also do our best to reciprocate.
Hence, happy and content. But was it an easy decision? Not really.
He’s not that suave ex that swept me off my feet by asking me out and telling me he liked me as soon as he got me out, tearing down my defenses like there’s no tomorrow. He’s not another flashy date who tries to impress you and everybody in the room.
Instead, he’s just someone you’ll find to be Mr. Reliable. Not the most exciting, but heck, someone I’m very very happy to be with.
namelessintaipei´s last blog post…Pampered Princess
vlh 70
Well, he seemed really “John Boy” when I met him. Not really a greasy “bad boy” type you’d meet in a bar necessarily. I mean, this is Kentucky, not L.A.! I don’t have a “sweet decent man I’ve known for months”, but my social circle is rather small, so I’m meeting men online with whom I share no acquaintances, so it’s hard to check up on these guys. Maybe I should rewrite my profile to say “please provide 2 verifiable character references”? Is that asking too much?
JuJu 71
Are you serious, vlh? About the character references?
vlh 72
Actually yes. Most of my friends who are in happy relationships met someone through mutual friends who vouched for them for each other. That’s kind of like having references…
JuJu 73
That’s not something you can do online, though.
Would you like it if a man asked you for such references??
Carmen Smith 74
I just met this guy, and already he’s calling me several times in one hour – I didn’t answer because the number was unfamiliar. Now I know it’s he, because he sent an email letting me know he’d been calling. I do hope he’s not going to be a problem, because I am not the type of female who yaps away on a phone all day, and I do like my space – that is why I’m still single at 39!
Roger 75
As a guy who has to navigate the flip-side of this conversation. I think the situation is simpler than it appears. Given a reasonably good level of social skills on the part of the guy, he will contact the woman if he wants to get together again.
If I have failed to call back because I was super busy, or was afraid of being rejected*. A followup call by the woman is appropriate. I don’t instantly assume she is too “forward,” rather appreciate the interest.
If a guy’s communication style, such as calling too much or too little, does not suit you, let him know. If he isn’t willing to make some changes, then things aren’t going to work. Cut your losses.
I’ve found the best way to guarantee continuity in communications is to make a date for the next encounter. Assuming things are going well and I want to continue, before the end I’ll say. “I really enjoyed our [call,email,date…}I’d like to do it again! Then set up another opportunity. Ok for the woman to initiate this question.
True, the above question can force an end to getting to know eachother, but in my experience, if a person who is right there isn’t enjoying themselves enough to continue, a graceful exit saves everyone wasting their time.
Roger
Just me 76
I totally get the point this article is making. Evan is not talking about over-the-top stalker types, here, just the person who is open and expressive enough to say hey, I really like you and I’m genuinely interested in you and I’m not afraid to show it.
It works in reverse too. Guys chase girls whose interest in them is totally lukewarm and then ignore the girl who is open and direct enough to say hey, you have my attention if you want it.
What’s up with that I wonder? It seems like a common scenario in my observation. I wonder if it’s nature’s way of making sure the guy is attracted enough that he’s gonna work hard to provide for the family and that the girl is not so interested that the guy won’t be driven to work hard? It’s gotta be doing something for the courtship, or it wouldn’t be so common? Who knows …
Anyhoo, I think the point of this article is valid for both genders. Chasing the girl with lukewarm interest, particularly if it’s an online match with someone long distance, really leads a guy open to being led on by a woman who will take the fun times while looking for her real Mr. Right and same goes for the ladies.
To pursue a long-distance match, I think you really gotta establish there is solid interest in both parties in the match’s potential, and be a little more open than you normally would be in a dating situation. I think interest should just be taken as a data point that is positive. At that point you don’t really know enough to reject a match just based on that one thing, unless it really is way way over the top.
Lorena 77
My dilema is much like the beginning part of the article, met this guy and it seems that almost immedately he was smitten with me. He flattered me with comments and pretty much laid down how things would be if we were together. Which for me was refreshing because it was always me “laying down the cards” well not to the extent he did(for me it was pretty much saying lets take it slow, be respectfull and don’t even think about getting too handsy). We do have things in common and loved that he sang a song for me. The problem is that he calls every single day and i am not much of a “every day call me” person, I would like to see where it goes but don’t know how to handle the daily calls thing. Also we haven’t even me yet and already he is talking about meeting his parents.
Dagaz 78
Rare case when i disagree with Evan))
most common scenario is: at the beginning he calls, he makes efforts, he courtships, he values etc.
but. when she falls for that good guy, given him the same feedback, he gets cold feet(or whatever is his reason) and pulls away.
the countless amount of examples for that, alas.
so, perhaps, these types of good guys want to be treated with cold shoulder? they seem just not to do and how to act otherwise?
filipino 79
Evan, you are sooo right! It happens a lot of time when you like someone who doesn’t like you back. A lot of individuals have been in this situation before, even if you drop a few hints it still not working or either doesn’t see the little hints or doesn’t do anything to reciprocate your feelings. It’s the same feeling you gave to that someone who has a feeling for you but your heart is with someone else.
Joe Black 80
I’ve read all these posts and I can say I’ve been the nice guy who has called a lot and texted a lot and I have gottrn laid a lot.I am hunter and I dont’ eat if I dont’ hunt.One girl told that she was turned off by the fact that I called a lot but it didn’t bother me becuase the the other girl I was talking with didn’t have a problem with it lol.I don’t play games and I believe in Neg digs.If you have to break somebody down to get them in bed you are a low life.There is a difference in being a nice guy and being a doormat.Like someone said here when you are comfortable with yourself you won’t allow someone to string you along and call you when it fits their fancy.Respect your self and require it from your partner.Would you choose a friend like this?