My Girlfriend Broke Up With Me. I Slept With Someone Else. Have I Done Something Wrong?

Evan Marc Katz

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I dated my ex for 16 months. We broke up with no hints of getting back together. 2 weeks later I had a one night stand with someone I don’t know. 1 week later, my ex calls and indicates we should try to get back together. In subsequent discussions, she asks me if I had slept with anyone. Being an honest man, I reluctantly told her yes. She is furious and hurt and is accusing me of cheating and lying to her. I want to be with her, never wanted to be without her (she pushed the breakup), and am disappointed that I hurt her, BUT, do not feel like I cheated or lied. Where do I go from here? Lay low and see if time helps or go all in again and try to win her over again?

Thanks.

Brian

Dear Brian,

You did nothing wrong.

You were broken up.

You had no hints of getting back together.

You did what pretty much any guy would do after a sixteen month relationship.

That doesn’t mean you’re out of the woods yet, but it does mean you’re technically “right”. The problem is that having truth and logic on your side matters very little when discussing emotional issues. This, by the way, is the main reason that I blog. I try to inject a little male logic into the largely feminine realm of relationship discussions. (This does NOT mean women are illogical – I’m just making a generalization here). I don’t actively hope to change the world, but I do hope to observe the world AS IT IS, as opposed to how it SHOULD be.

She probably wanted you cry your eyes out for a few weeks, paralyzed, unable to imagine yourself in the presence of any other woman.

Your girlfriend is caught up in how it SHOULD be. After a long, serious relationship – one in which she still had feelings for you – she was clearly hoping for some dating moratorium. She probably wanted you cry your eyes out for a few weeks, paralyzed, unable to imagine yourself in the presence of any other woman. And then, when she came back to reconcile with her beloved, she was shocked to discover that you had drowned your sorrows in the cleavage of another woman during – GASP! – a meaningless one-night stand. The gall! The disrespect! Did your relationship just mean NOTHING?

It feels pretty ridiculous to type those last few lines because they make no logical sense. You were broken up. You did when men do when they’re single – look for other women. When my serious girlfriend dumped me in 2004, I left her house, red-eyed, drove ten minutes home, and reactivated my JDate account instantly. Would I want to be the first woman to date me after my heart had been shattered? Hell, no. But I certainly wasn’t going to repair my wounds by sitting at home by myself for a month….

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108 Comments »Filed Under Sex & Relationship Advice

108 Responses to “My Girlfriend Broke Up With Me. I Slept With Someone Else. Have I Done Something Wrong?”

1. Steve 1

   Brian;
   You did nothing wrong and you have been 100% honest. You do not have any fact based reasons to justify feeling bad. YOU WERE TOLD IT WAS *OVER*.

   Make those things CLEAR to your ex. Do not back peddle on that. However, do not belabor it. What is of important to you is being with her and her feelings. Let her know, with no doubts, that you feel that way. . Then back off and let her handle her own feelings. If she wants you back, congratulations. If she remains unsure for a long period of time let her know that you respect that and you will move on considering yourself single ( free ).

2. $Francisco 2

   Marc, great response. It’s refreshing to see another guy who understands how relationships work.

   Brian, you didn’t do anything wrong but you did say that you want to be with her. Telling her that you had moved on would in no way help your situation. With relationships people need to realize when it’s a good time to “be right” and when its better to do “what works.” The two doesn’t always work well together and it will test your personal values but in the end what matters is which means more to you.

3. Brian 3

   Assuming you want to get back together with someone who totally pitched you, the answer is no. What she is asking is “within the relationship, were you faithful to me”. Just because she tried to change the dates to include the time she defined as outside the relationship, you acted in good faith during the relationship. There is nothing to be gained for either of you to talk about your activities. For you to raise the issue as she is just wanting to get back together will only push a very hot negative button for her and may block her willingness to commit.

   Asking you if you have slept with someone else is just like asking you if what she is wearing makes her butt look too big–there is no acceptable honest answer. I see what you did while broken up as the same as the time before you were together–what you did romantically is none of her business and need not be disclosed. It is outside the relationship as she defined it.

   What is your motivation to tell her about it? Getting a last dig in about being dumped? Getting her to bless your “transgression” (Remembering that most women in committed relationships HATE infidelity)? Satisfying the idea that “Honesty is the best policy”? If so, have you told her everything else in your life that would really make her mad?

   Finally, from my own experience, I would be careful with getting back together with someone who totally broke up with me. She may have discovered she really missed you and was wrong to break up. Great! If she does it again, it begins to look like a nasty habit. I made the mistake of marrying a woman who did that and it was not something I would repeat.

4. Steve 4

   
   To wrap up, I want to offer a quote from Ramana Hamarshi, “Wanting to reform the world without discovering one’s true self is like trying to cover the world with leather to avoid the pain of walking on stones and thorns. It is much simpler to wear shoes.”
   

   I first heard that quote at a meditation retreat back in the early 90s. It applies to so many situations. It is faster, less frustrating, more rational and more effective to look to what you can do to adjust yourself then demanding that the world change to suit you. That quote was worth the week of silence and sitting on the floor.

5. Justy 5

   Reminds me of an old episode of “Friends”…
   No, Brian, I don’t think you did anything wrong, it’s just that she was expecting you to stay home and pine, at least for a little bit. I know if this happened to me, I would feel hurt. If I’d invested 16 months into a relationship, something went wrong enough to break us up, then practically overnight the man went off and slept with someone else, I’d probably wonder if he ever cared at all. No matter who initiated the breakup, there is a 16 month investment here.

   Yes, I know men are wired differently, but I can understand that she would be hurt. However, he told her the truth, and that sets the relationship up for more trust in the future if they get back together.

   Technically, you didn’t do anything wrong, but that doesn’t mean her feelings aren’t hurt. If you still care about her and the relationship can be repaired, give her a little while to see if she gets over it. If you don’t, move on.

   Just my $0.02.

6. wildgingersnap 6

   Hey Brian, I’m a woman and I sympathize.

   I can understand that your ex’s ego was bruised but being furious and accusing you of cheating/lying (huh!?) is certainly unreasonable and irrational. Wanting you to be so distraught that you couldn’t imagine yourself in the presence of another woman is some romantic ideal that just doesn’t jive with human nature.

   If you want to get back together with her, here’s my advice:
   Don’t apologize, justify or otherwise go on the defensive. Personally, I know when I’m being demanding or irrational and it’s kind of a test: if a guy stands strong, I gain respect for him.

   Be confident in your belief that you didn’t do anything “wrong.” She has the right to feel hurt by your actions, but you did not “hurt her.” At this point, the best thing would be to express empathy and ask questions — try to find out where she’s coming from, what her expectations were, exactly why she’s feeling hurt…people are more interested in being understood than they are in being right.

7. Michael Ejercito 7

   Brian,

   You two broke up, so you had no obligation to refrain from having sex with an unattached person. If she can not see that, find someone else.

8. Markus 8

   EMK and Ginger are right. You did nothing wrong and if she keeps throwing it back in your face, walk. See what happens.

9. Selena 9

   Brian what you did was neither cheating, nor lying. Unfortunately the technicality of that doesn’t make much of a difference. To your gf (ex-gf?) what you did is upsetting because it looks like you never really loved her if after a mere two weeks you were already out there ready to hook up with someone else. Instead of staying at home with the drapes shut, bawling your eyes out over a pint of Ben & Jerry’s, you were happily putting your penis inside another woman.

   The two of you may get back together, but she is never going to forget that she was so easily replacable in this regard. You can expect this moment of “in the past” to come up from time to time, particularly whenever you have a tiff. You can expect her to have trust issues with you for some time to come. She may get over it, but on some level it will always be there. Mulitply this 10, 100 fold if your “one nighter” is someone you (or the two of you) could run into on a non-infrequent basis.

   You might want to consider why you broke up in the first place, and if it’s really worth it to try again knowing all this.

10. Jennifer 10

    I agree with all the posters- Brian was not wrong, but ex-gf is hurt and we can all understand her not liking his actions. My only quibble is with some of Evan’s advice
    ” You want a guy to tell you the truth about cheating? You better be prepared to forgive him and painfully accept his apology. Otherwise, you’re asking for him to lie to you.”
    I can’t get down with that. I agree that you should be willing to hear him out, understand where he was coming from and why he cheated so you can make a determination on whether to forgive him or not. I agree you can’t tell him, up front, that he will never be forgiven for cheating and then expect him to tell you the truth (though one could hope; some people actually still do the ‘right’ thing). But i completely disagree that you should automatically be prepared to forgive him. Why would that be the default when you’ve been cheated on?

11. Evan Marc Katz 11

    I didn’t really say it should be the default. Cheating is pretty much the most serious crime you can commit within a relationship.

    All I said was that it makes no sense to confess to infidelity if you know that it won’t be forgiven. And to expect a confession is foolhardy.

12. Michele 12

    Cheating. Gosh that can be so hurtful however Brian and his ex were NOT together when his “offense” took place. In my (ever so humble) opinion am unsure that his g/f has a leg to stand on. Cancel that unsure and I say I am POSITIVE that she has no recourse.

    Furthermore some things are best left unknown when it comes to the cheating issue. I have cheated and have probably been cheated “on.” Did I admit to my behavior…NO. The relationships were on the rocks anyway.

    What should be addressed is WHY the cheating took place. In Brian’s case he was a free man, so why not see another person. If I thought for one minute that some guy was going to hold cheating against me – when we were apart, no way would I see any future entanglements with him. Remember the cheating happened based on the problems that were within the relationship.

13. Lance 13

    One reason Brian’s quasi ex-gf could be so upset was that he’s of the character of a man who would do a one-night stand. These aren’t the most glamorous things in the world (although I got no problem with them, and I don’t have an issue with Brian’s ONS). But, would she be less upset if he went out on a date? Seems innocuous. I think the timing is less important than the actual act. When you think ONS, you think crazy porno sex, extreme passion, highly physical, maybe much better sex than what Brian and his gf were having. Plus, she’s going to think he’s sleazy for the random hookup. I can see her getting upset by all that.

    He could have defused by saying, “Yeah, I got wasted at a bar, had sex with a random chick and it was TERRIBLE. I had no emotional connection with her and I shouldn’t have gone there. Plus, it’s against my character to be hooking up randomly. I totally regretted it. I started thinking about you instantly and how good we are together.” No lies there.

14. Ron 14

    Holy Crap Batman,

    What a manipulative bitch that is you have for an ex.

    My God, I’d throw her in a river with a 50 pound weight attached to her ankle.

    If there is anyone who deserves the middle finger, it’s someone who breaks up with you, then accuses you of being a cheater.

    Do yourself a favor and tell her to go “f” herself. Seriously.

    Someone like that deserves to die alone.

15. Ron 15

    I got a kick out of Evan’s story about the paranoid ex-girlfriend who demanded that he tell her if he ever cheated.

    By definition, a cheater is someone who lacks integrity. You can say, yes, but what if you just cheated once, what if you were drunk, blah, blah, blah.

    Point is, since cheaters aren’t the most honorable people, you can’t expect them to confess to it or ever admit! It would be out of character.

    Like a famous relationship author said, “it never just happens…” That’s always the line the cheater gives you. “It just happened….”

    I swear honey, we we just met, and BOOM, our clothes fell off!

16. starthrower 16

    I-gotta-say-that-gf-has-no-culpability-here-and-I’m-a-female.

    I-just-ended-a-relationship-and-I-said-in-no-uncertain-terms-it-was-over…I-don’t-expect-to-return-to-it-but-if-I-did-I-would-not-even-ask-him-the-question…I-would-just-assume-he-did-someone-else.

    Am-I-terrible-for-embracing-the-advantages-of-being-single-and-unattached

17. Samantha 17

    My boyfriend of two years cheated on me recently. He went out of town and when he came back, his friend showed me footage of him with two girls. I took the video and put it on YouTube, hoping that no one will ever want to date him. My boyfriend swore he didn’t cheat, until he saw himself on YouTube and realized that I knew the truth.

    I also slept with the friend who showed me the video and we recorded the orgasm (just the audio!). I’m a DJ, so I have all the equipment in my room. Anyway, I mixed the sound of the orgasm into a song – which I also uploaded on my myspace page!

    I’m not usually a mean person, but I guess it made me feel better, at least for a moment, to get back at him. Anyway, if anyone wants to see it, it’s at http://www.myspace.com/thehartlotsong.

    I’m also going to start posting pictures of “cheaters” on my site, so send me pictures and I will get the word out for you!!!

18. starthrower 18

    Sorry-I-meant-Brian-has-no-culpability….oy-it’s-been-a-long-day…

19. mrs. vee 19

    If you ever cheat on me, you’d better tell me. I do not tolerate cheaters and I will break up with you.

    LOL. Really, Ev? Your ex-girlfriend said THAT?

    Well, she was perhaps a little ham-handed in the way she expressed the sentiment, but I can certainly say I’d also hope for a confession from my DH if he ever had a moment of weakness with another woman. And I couldn’t promise with any certainty to forgive or painfully accept anything from that point on. But I’d still want to know. Plus, expecting him to do so implies that I believe him to be fallible, but honorable.

    Maybe a better way of putting it would have been, “If you ever make this sort of mistake with another woman, please be honest with me, and be prepared to face the music.”

    Facing the music would be my inclination if I were the one who screwed up with another man, anyway. But whatever.

    That’s not the point in the case of your original poster who did absolutely nothing wrong.

20. Anonymous 20

    Ron- Before you go making such harsh accusations of this woman, perhaps you should read Selena’s post above. She really hit the nail on the head as to why this sort of thing bothers women. Yes, it was wrong of her to accuse him of cheating and lying, as neither of those things occurred; however, the accusations she made likely spawned from such feelings described in Selena’s post. I had a similar situation with my ex, granted we did not get back together/think of getting back together, nor did I accuse him of cheating. He slept with another woman one week after I ended our three year relationship (we were even engaged). I felt exactly what Selena felt and what Brian’s gf/ex is feeling, replaceable. This person who supposedly had such strong feelings for you can get it up so easily to go and sleep with another woman…to us, it seems as though the mourning period never existed. Note: Even if you are the dumper as opposed to the dumpee, you will still go through a similar mourning period, and you expect the same of the other person. Is it wrong to expect this? Absolutely, but since when were relationships merely based upon logic and devoid of feeling? You can’t deny someone their feelings, so if I were you, I would avoid making such harsh statements in the future. Especially since you are essentially making them of all females, so unless you want to die alone…

21. murray t. 21

    To Evan’s point on confessing, I guess the difference between a cheater and someone who just made a mistake is that the cheater sees telling the truth and self-preservation as two things that directly conflict with one another. Whereas the guy with integrity who just made a mistake sees telling the truth as essential to his self-preservation.

    You gotta be able to look yourself in the mirror everyday, afterall. Asking your partner to tell the truth if s/he were to cheat – and to subsequently face the consequences – is not that outrageous or laughable a request.

    I’d rather lose a partner I loved but know I treated her fairly than lie to her each day.
    But that’s just me.

    It also sounds to me like you and your ex- enjoyed antagonizing each other, Evan. Those kinds of relationships never last when built on that sort of foundation. You’ve both probably gone on to greener pastures by now.

22. m 22

    OP –

    Did you cheat?
    Arguably, no.
    Did you lie?
    I wasn’t there, so I really can’t tell.

    Did you do something wrong?
    If your 16-month (God, you men quantify relationships the way most women talk about babies. What’s wrong with OVER A YEAR? D*mn.) relationship was with a woman who thinks the way “most” women think —
    YES.

    If you do nothing else, PLEASE read Serena’s comment again @ #9.

    If you care at all about your MORE THAN A YEAR LONG relationship, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do this.

    First, you had a one night stand while she was probably either in eating Ben & Jerry’s or out getting drunk with her girlfriends.
    Her version of events: SLEAZY.

    And the following is something that you’d think would be a practical concern for BOTH genders, but I guess I’m a woman who will NEVER understand a man’s SEXFIRSTSEXFIRSTSEXFIRST prioritization of sex over just about anything, including death.

    (And I know it’s a “guy thing” because my gay male friends say the exact same thing.)

    Why has NO man who’s talked about this on this post mentioned the possibility of a LETHAL TRANSMITTED SEXUAL DISEASE?!?

    We don’t know if the OP protected himself. We don’t know anything about the woman he slept with. We know condoms can break.

    We DO know that if he goes back with his original GF that he’s automatically put her at risk of catching one, as a result of what he’s done.

    Not judging.

    I just sometimes wonder if it’s worth commenting anymore because so many of you guys just seem to think of relationships in such a quantum-ly different way.

    Doesn’t anyone think of their S.O.’s emotional or physical health anymore?

    Especially in a relationship that lasted more than a year, no matter how many “months” it’s characterized by?

    Do you all honestly believe that cheating and lying are the only “wrong” things you can do to bash someone’s heart in?

    Or is it just about the sex in 21st century America?

    *smh*

23. m 23

    “You want a guy to tell you the truth about cheating? You better be prepared to forgive him and painfully accept his apology. Otherwise, you’re asking for him to lie to you.”

    Respectfully, Evan, I disagree.

    He should be prepared for the possibility that I might forgive him.

    He should also be prepared for the possibility that I might not.

    Given the double standards in our society, I certainly wouldn’t expect him to forgive me, if I were in that hot seat.

    But double standards aside, for him to cheat and then expect to be forgiven is a level of entitled expectation I just can’t get behind.

    I mean, really. If he cheats on me, why should he expect to be forgiven?

    (And, please, no evo-psycho-biobabble about how women are always the more nurturing, patient, and forgiving gender, no matter how heinous the level of BS perpetrated by the man.)

    He isn’t some sort of prince for whom I, the lesser noblewoman, must overlook all slights. This is not Henry VIII’s court we’re talking about here.

24. Selena 24

    Uh, I have to say that asking a partner to tell you if they ever cheat on you and telling them that if they do the relationship will be over–is not asking the partner to lie to you. It’s asking the partner not to cheat on you and explaining what the consequences will be if they don’t comply. Pretty simple.

    And straightforward–unlike cheating and lying about it.

25. Steve 25

    I would like to thank Selena for her insightful post and perhaps offer a little bit of insight in return. I can’t speak for Brian or every man out there, but a liaison soon after a relationship ends isn’t about replacing anybody. You can’t replace emotions, memories and bonding with just sex.

    When somebody breaks up with you, there is always an element of rejection being felt, no matter how small. Sleeping with a date soon after a relationship provides a feeling of worth and validation as a buffer against the rejection. It also provides affection, being touched, etc…..that helps heal the wounds. Lastly, not to sound crass, but it would also be about doing something positive for yourself. You just got dumped out of a long relationship, you feel down, you feel like you screwed up, you feel rejected. Instead of dwelling on it you are picking yourself up and getting back in the race. You are owning your situation and putting your life back in order.

26. Lance 26

    Had a couple more thoughts about Brian and the ex-gf: Notice he makes no mention of his remorse (or lack thereof) of the ONS, nor does he think it’s weird about the timing. Perhaps he had an already established pattern of cheating during the relationship, and this was the ultimate proof of character to her. Also, WHY did they break up? WHY did she “push” for it? There’s a ton of stuff there that’s left unsaid.

    I would ask Brian to analyze the actual relationship and see what led to the breakup. The timing and the lie versus truth issues are a bit secondary.

27. JerseyGirl 27

    I don’t think this guy Brian did anything wrong but I can also understand why his ex would be hurt. If it had happened to me I would think that our relationship must have not meant that much if he can so easily go out and sleep with another woman so quickly.

    —————————————————————————–
    You want a guy to tell you the truth about cheating? You better be prepared to forgive him and painfully accept his apology. Otherwise, you’re asking for him to lie to you.

    Yeah, I take issue with this qoute too. It really negates any responsiblity the cheater has in telling the turth in the name of the reaction of the non-cheater. It puts the reprocusions on the non-cheater which isn’t fair. I think it is obvious the person that was cheated on is going to be hurt. And to suggest that they have to be prepared to offer forgiveness and grace to the cheater , in a situation where the cheater clearly didn’t do any of that themselves, is ridiculous.
    —————————————————————————–
    Murry T:
    “Asking your partner to tell the truth if s/he were to cheat – and to subsequently face the consequences – is not that outrageous or laughable a request.”

    Completely agree. And to suggest otherwise is making excuses for the cheater and their behavior and reactions and asking the non-cheater to be accomodating to someone that didn’t do the same.

28. beth 28

    “…the cheater sees telling the truth and self-preservation as two things that directly conflict with one another. Whereas the guy with integrity who just made a mistake sees telling the truth as essential to his self-preservation.”

    Beautifully put, Murray. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

29. Steve 29

    
    m
    Did you do something wrong?
    If your 16-month (God, you men quantify relationships the way most women talk about babies. What’s wrong with OVER A YEAR? D*mn.) relationship was with a woman who thinks the way most women think
    YES.
    

    Do you literally mean “wrong” or do you mean “hurt”?

    The latter almost everyone can accept. The former would imply that you can’t take a woman at her word, which would put women below the level of being responsible adults. That isn’t good.

    I understand how women in this situation can feel hurt, but they hurt themselves. You can’t dump a person and continue to have certain expectations on them.

30. Michael Ejercito 30

    The guy with integrity would not have cheated in the first place.

31. Justy 31

    Seems as if pretty much everyone is agreement that Brian didn’t actually cheat. It looks as if there are two separate points being discussed. One is whether you should admit to your partner whether you cheated or not, and what to expect as a result of the confession. The other is whether it’s OK or not to have a ONS so soon after the breakup of a LTR.

    The 2nd one first – Sometimes we make a surface accusation to cover up something much deeper. Brian’s gf’s accusation that he cheated is very likely a mask based on the hurt that she feels. Gentlemen, I hear your perspective (especially Steve #25) and understand it. Makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, feelings don’t follow logic or sense. If she is hurting as a result of his actions, whether right or not, all the sense and logic in the world isn’t going to make her hurt go away. It’ll probably make it worse because the real issue isn’t being addressed. Emotions aren’t healed by logic and being right. If he cares about taking her back or is considering this reconciliation in any way, Brian needs help her feel that he really does care and it will take time. If he doesn’t, experience and food for thought for next time, and move on.

    Should you admit that you cheated (which by the way doesn’t really apply to Brian’s case since he didn’t really cheat)? In my heart I want to say that you should always be honest, because otherwise trust erodes. The brain, it tells me to keep my big mouth shut! When all is balanced, Murry T. says it all – well said. I could add nothing more.

    to Steve -
    Again, technically, you are correct. If we end a relationship, we shouldn’t continue to have expectations. However, this was a year+ relationship. If there was caring for that length of time, it is unlikely that caring would suddenly stop. The expectation isn’t really a ONS. it is the seeming lack of respect for the relationship’s mourning period (as posted by Anonymous #20) .

32. Selena 32

    I don’t think these issues are gender specific. Wouldn’t any number of guys be upset to find out their gf-ex-gf had a ONS two weeks after the breakup if they subsequently considered reconcilling? Wouldn’t they also have trouble with the ‘sleaze factor’? Timing? Trust issues? I’d bet a fair number of men would wonder if the gf had her eye on someone BEFORE the breakup and possibly accuse her of cheating and lying as well.

    The point is not whether it’s WRONG to have a ONS after a breakup, it’s that doing so creates a bitter taste and an obstruction when it comes to attempting to reconcile. Perhaps an uneasy feeling that every time there is a tiff, the other party is going to be out looking to get laid. An indication of lack of investment in the relationship.

    Also, I don’t know that many guys who would be automatically prepared to forgive their girlfriends for cheating on them. Truly, the argument that ANYONE should be prepared to forgive such a thing is laughable. You find you either do, or you don’t, or you try, but cannot. Many people who have been cheated on in the past have concluded it’s best for them to not bother with the concept of forgiveness and just move on. Being upfront about that is NOT tacitly asking your partner to lie to you if s/he cheats, it’s being HONEST with them from the start about consequences of actions.

33. Evan Marc Katz 33

    You keep on focusing the idea that women should forgive men for cheating. That’s not the point, although I do feel that infidelity can be forgiven. Here’s the real issue – a logical one, not an emotional one:

    Unless men feel that they will be forgiven for cheating, they have NO INCENTIVE to tell the truth. Murray’s point is well-stated and it appeals to our honorable sides. In fact, it’s a huge reason as to why I don’t think I’ll ever be a cheater – I wouldn’t be able to LIVE with myself; my conscience would eat me alive.

    That said, self-preservation is a lot stronger than honor for, well, pretty much everybody. Bill Clinton. Roger Clemens. Or you, if you cheat on your taxes or fib on your profile. We are selfish by nature, and to think that most men will voluntarily break up a ten year marriage to the mothers of their children for a one-time mistake is absurd. Let’s talk about the real world and how things ARE, instead of how we want them to be.

    30% of people in 30 year marriages have cheated at one time or another. This means that a) lots of people have been lying for self-preservation, and/or b) lots of people have the capacity to forgive for the greater good of the relationship.

    But this absolutist, moralist, pie-in-the-sky, “you should tell me that you cheated on me, upon which I’ll dump you” thing?

    Gimme a break.

34. Steve 34

    Justy;
    The phrase “technically correct” to me, implies that the person is wrong anyway. FWIW, being logical does solve emotional problems. It is called cognitive behavioral therapy. It has been clinically proven to be more effective then medication for several psychological issues. Its core idea is that emotions are reactions to our thoughts. Change the thoughts and the emotions change.

    Selena;
    I like your “tables turned” analogy. If I broke up with my girlfriend, changed my mind 2 weeks later, contacted, and found out that she slept with another I would indeed be hurt. I would also consider it to be my own fault because I told her we were through and I set her free.

35. Selena 35

    Yes Steve, I agree. That is a conclusion Brian’s gf/ex-gf needs to come to as well if they are to reconcile successfully.

36. Ron 36

    Anonymous-

    if you’re going to personally criticize somone’s posts here, at least have the courage to post your real name, rather than some juvenile “anonymous” post.

    Grow up.

37. lorelei 37

    EMK: “But this absolutist, moralist, pie-in-the-sky, you should tell me that you cheated on me, upon which I’ll dump you thing?

    Gimme a break.”

    I’d say a break is exactly what your ex-gf gave you. A break-up, that is. And with your position, I have to admit I could see myself having done the same if I were her. I personally do not relish being told that my ideals are unrealistic, unattainable, or silly.

    It sounds to me like you weren’t opposed to her stance against infidelity, so much as shellshocked by her delivery. That’s fair enough.

    But that doesn’t make either one of you right or wrong. It just means the two of you were not meant to be.

    So all is as it should be.

38. Ron 38

    Samantha,

    You are setting yourself up for a major personal lawsuit by posting personal material of someone else on YouTube and posting pictures of “cheaters” on a website when they have not given you the photos to do so.

    I am not defending cheaters, and I believe what goes around comes around.

    But, you should brush up on Internet law or else you are going to get cleaned out by a personal civil lawsuit.

    I have just read of cases where people’s reputations were damaged online by someone doing what you are doing, and the juries are very sympathetic to the victims.

    Not a good idea. But you’ll probably have to learn the hard way.

39. Selena 39

    Evan,
    Some people DO forgive cheating. And some who cheat decide to keep their mouths shut about it. There are people who choose to look the other way about cheating to preserve their lifestyle as well. That’s the real world.

    The INCENTIVE should be NOT to cheat.
    It’s the idea that you should be either be prepared to forgive cheating, or be prepared to be lied to about it that is absurd.

40. Steve 40

    Selena;
    I thought you have a very good point about the perils of his ex-gf possibly straining a resume relationship in the future by throwing his activities back in his face. I have two friends who were almost divorced over something like that.

    Samanthah;
    When I first read your post my thought was “serves the bum right”, but I think it also makes you look dangerous. Payback is finite. At some point a person has paid for their crime and been punished. You need to know when to quit.

41. Ron 41

    I’ll say one more thing about this subject (I’d like to put it in big bold 18 size font if I could):

    If someone breaks up with you, it is none of their damn business how long it takes you to get “over them.” It’s none of your business if it takes them 5 minutes (whith a shrug of the shoulder whenever they think of you) or 5 years.

    This is the main argument here over Brian’s letter. I say, if this woman broke up with Brian, Brian is free to sleep with another woman 5 minutes after the breakup (or sooner if he has a booty call on speed dial).

    Women (or men) that have a problem with that are just letting their own egos and insecurities get in the way of it. This is not a sexist issue at all. Same rules apply to men who break up with the woman.

    The offended party (Brian’s ex in this case) just want to know that the man (or woman) is suffering for X amount of time after the break up. That makes them feel better. It makes them feel like they were truly loved.

    Give me a break. These people don’t know what love is. Love is wanting the best for the other person, not hoping they suffer for weeks after the breakup just to satisfy their own petty egos.

    I’ll say it again. If you break up with someone, that person is a free agent, and can sleep with anyone or do anything they please with the opposite sex. If you give such a rat’s ass about them, then don’t break up with them to begin with.

    If you don’t like how “suddenly” they get over you, or decide to get intimate with another soul, it’s your problem, not theirs.

    May sound cold, but it’s the bitter reality. If you have a problem with it, it’s your own selfishness, you’re own insecurity.

    Every person who gets dumped when they were giving the relationship 100% effort and honesty deserves to get over that relationship 1 flat second after they get their walking papers.

    Whew! God I feel better now.

42. Evan Marc Katz 42

    (And with your position, I have to admit I could see myself having done the same if I were her.)

    Why? Because I said that it’s wholly illogical for someone to commit relationship suicide?

    Nobody is defending cheating.
    Everybody knows it’s wrong.
    No one is even saying it should be forgiven.

    All I’m saying is that it makes no sense for a guy who made an unforgivable mistake to ask for forgiveness if he knows he’ll never be forgiven. Why is this so hard to understand?

    This is not a moral argument. It’s a logical argument. Reread the thread. All I said is that if you’re hoping for a confession, you’d better be willing to forgive him, or you ain’t gonna get a confession. Thus, the original question:

    If a man stands to lose his entire relationship by confessing to a mistake, what is his incentive to confess?

    If your answer is “doing the right thing” or “integrity”, I think we can make the case that self-preservation is almost always going to win out. I’m not arguing that this is a GOOD thing. I’m saying that it HAPPENS. This is ONLY point I was trying to make.

    Have a great weekend, y’all. Thanks for your stimulating comments.

43. starthrower 43

    We-are-overthinking-this-kids….

    Guys-can-and-do-have-sex-and-are-more-able-to-have-sex-separate-from-emotions-than-are-women.

    Also-cheating-is-not-unforgivable….we-should-always-forgive-because-it-sets-us-free…but-it-may-be-the-end-of-a-relationship.

    Forgiviness-does-not-necessarily-constitute-restoration-of-the-relationship.

44. starthrower 44

    Ron-I-sense-alot-of-anger….

45. Justy 45

    Steve-
    Sorry. I really and truly didn’t mean at as an implication of being wrong anyway, although looking back, I can see that it was a poor choice of words. I meant that being right sometimes takes a back seat for other things.

    FWIW – It is worth. Yes, logic can and does affect emotions in the way you explained it, but I know whenever I’ve used that approach, it is conscious and deliberate. It is not something I think of in the heat of the moment when I’m angry or hurt or upset. Instead, it takes time and conscious effort after I’ve cooled down to do this work. All I’m saying is that if he is interested in renewing the relationship, time can help. If he isn’t interested, the point is moot.

46. Selena 46

    Gee Ron,
    You are such an empathetic soul. How’s that working for ya?

    Actually, I agree that once you break up you don’t owe each other anything in terms of loyalty or how long someone else should take to “get over it”. But the problem comes in if you find the two of you are “just not done yet” and want to try to get back together. What happened during the short breakup perhaps logically shouldn’t matter, but emotionally it often does. Tough, but there it is nontheless. And the kind of vehemence you espouse is not conducive to starting over with kindness and understanding and a willingness to move forward.

    Since letters to this blog seem to run a month after the writer sent them, it would be interesting to hear from Brian as to how things worked out in the last month.

47. Lance 47

    @EMK: I hear you on the integrity vs. self-preservation argument. I’ve gone the self-preservation route (I’m sure nearly everyone has) MANY times; some of them I regretted deeply, some of them I truly thought I was doing the right thing. Nowadays, I’m actively trying to stay on the integrity side as of this year. If I make a mistake, I’ll be honest about it and suffer the consequences, even if it means losing the relationship. I can envision tons of scenarios though where I would compromise that value, although they’re fairly extreme. The influence of survival is very powerful.

    @everyone else: I find Brian sympathetic for some reason, and no it’s not because I’m a guy. My best advice is for him to NOT try to get the girl back; instead be single and let her cool off. If he’s capable of a ONS, then he’s likely attractive and can find dates. If she really likes him, they might find each other down the road. If they get back together the ONS will be a splinter that never goes away, and no amount of logic or debate will change that.

    Hope everyone has a good weekend also, including m who called me out on another thread (btw are you a chick or dude?). This blog is getting addictive, and I mean that in a good way.

48. m 48

    “You keep on focusing the idea that women should forgive men for cheating.”

    Gonna quote you here, Evan, with the suggestion you directed to the woman in the relationship:

    “You better be prepared to forgive him and painfully accept his apology.”

    So perhaps that’s why we’re so focused on that. (I’m guessing, of course. Plus it sounds a philosophy that would give a man a massive entitlement complex. Which I don’t think is what was intended.)

    “All I’m saying is that it makes no sense for a guy who made an unforgivable mistake to ask for forgiveness if he knows he’ll never be forgiven. Why is this so hard to understand?”

    Because, as you say yourself, it’s an UNFORGIVEABLE mistake.

    Therefore, it’s reasonable to expect that a logical, rational man (please note adjectives utilized, particularly in the face of your own reliance thereon ) might need to entertain the notion that if he makes an UNFORGIVEABLE mistake, there’s a chance — and notice, none of us say how big the chance is or is not — that he might NOT be forgiven??

    What you seem to be saying is that men want a prospective guarantee of forgiveness for something that by your own definition is unforgiveable.

    HOWEVER …

    You might be talking about something else.

    If the hypothetical you’re setting up here is:

    Woman Says at Beginning/Middle of Relationship: “If you cheat on me, I’ll never forgive you.”
    Man Thinks to Himself: “Well, then, I’ll never tell you if I do cheat,”

    then that’s something different. A subtle distinction, but an important one.

    In THAT instance, IMHO (and I can’t believe I’m about to reveal this in front of men, but half of you probably aren’t listening anyway, ’cause a woman’s talking) then the woman is making a tactical relationship management mistake.

    Because IMO a man shouldn’t know whether his woman is going to forgive him or not if he cheats.

    He can consider the risk — BEFORE he cheats.

    And if he’s a good risk manager and he cares about his primary relationship (assuming that it’s normal, and not one of those Hamptons or Malibu things where everyone fools around with everyone else’s spouse), then he’s NOT going to cheat.

    And this isn’t really just about men either. This applies irrespective of who the prospective cheating party is.

    Speaking of party, it’s time to go do it. Have a nice weekend, everyone.

49. Evan Marc Katz 49

    I swore I wasn’t going to do this, but:

    The question isn’t whether a man should cheat. We’re all in agreement on that one. It’s why he should confess if he does. And no one has given a good answer as to how HE benefits from confessing HIS error. To put it another way, stop thinking of this as a man/woman thing. Stop thinking of yourself as the victim.

    Let’s say YOU cheated.
    Let’s say YOU feel terribly guilty.
    Let’s say YOU know your boyfriend has been burned by cheating women before and will NOT tolerate your transgression.
    Why would you tell him the awful truth? Just to make things right? To absolve your guilt? To ensure that you break up and that you’re both miserable? The LOGICAL action would be to swallow hard until you choke on your guilt and vow not to fuck up again.

    So if you’re one of those people who would voluntarily destroy her relationship by confessing (M? Selena? Lorelei?), please explain to me: how does acting with integrity AFTER the fact amount to a win/win, when it clearly seems to be a lose/lose?

50. Selena 50

    Why would I cheat on my partner? I’m the kind of person who would breakup if I wanted to dally with someone else. And I’d like to think anyone I was involved with would do the same.

    They haven’t though. I’ve been cheated on by more than one bf–and they didn’t ‘confess’, I just managed to find out. Yes, it’s devestating, and yes I’ve tried forgiving. It’s easier said than done BTW and one thing is sure–even if you do forgive, you NEVER forget.

    In the last case, I’ve sometimes wondered if I would have been better off not knowing. Would the outcome have been different? Or the same? (We broke up, then spent 8 mos. in a very rocky reconciliation attempt only to go our separate ways anyway). I’d certainly have been spared alot of pain by not finding out, but it’s questionable whether that is a good thing or not.

    Some people want to know if their partner is cheating even if it means unequivocably the relationship ends. By warning them of this in advance, so to speak, they hope it will make their partner stop and think hard, before crossing the cheating line. Is it REALLY worth losing the relationship over a fling? And you’d have to be really stupid to not consider that your partner might end the r’ship over cheating, even if nothing was ever said in advance at all. How many people are out there do you think, who are confident their partner would forgive them for cheating? A slip? A slip My Aunt Fannie. Cheating doesn’t “just happen”– it happens to people who are willing to cheat.

    As far as confessing goes, I’d guess that is a way to clear your conscience whatever the outcome may be. A desire to have no secrets and/or perhaps a release from the fear your partner will find out some other way. A legitimate fear BTW, a cheater may not have been as discreet as s/he thought s/he was and secrets have a way of coming out regardless. There will never be a win/win outcome when it comes to cheating even without a confession. To confess or not, will always be a personal decision.

    Instead of telling partners you would leave them if they cheated, perhaps people should start telling their partners that if they cheated, then THEY would feel free to go out and cheat as well. Give ‘em something to chew on before they take off their clothes.

    That would probably just give us more paranoid, insecure people running around than we already have now. Aye.

51. Lance 51

    If you put it that way there doesn’t seem to be a win-win, except only in the abstract for the one partner. You feel somewhat good about yourself for maintaining your integrity post-fuckup even though you risk/lost the relationship. I’m all about that though. Who here wouldn’t take the lose/lose occasionally if it meant being honest and principled in the end?

52. JerseyGirl 52

    Evan:
    “Unless men feel that they will be forgiven for cheating, they have NO INCENTIVE to tell the truth.”

    Are people accountable or not accountable for their actions then? Because this obliterates a person accountablity by making excuses to justify a behavior.

    Maybe the answer is to make him feel like there will be a positive incentive to telling the truth, even when there won’t be. That way you maintain your own personal survival and incentive while he is trying to do the same. Fight fire with fire. Create a dialogue that makes it appear there will be an incentive in telling the truth, but underneath it isn’t really the incentive he wants, which is maintaining the relationship. It would be a survival move for the person that was cheated on and needs to know the truth and knows they can’t be with a person that cheated on them. Statiscally, MOST people that have been cheated on, don’t over come it. Not all, but most.

    Evan, as for your statements of being “logical”. It’s great to be logical. Women infact can be just as logical as men but in different way I believe just as men can be emotional. But if relationships could be figured out with just logical statements, they wouldn’t be relationships at all. They would be math problems. That is your flaw Evan, after reading your postings. Being logical helps and is a plus, but as a man, you only have one side of the story. And you can only give advice from one side of the story. One perspective as a man. But you completely miss the other side. And to dismiss the importance of emotions in relationships and relationship problems, would be just as bad as to dismiss the logical side of it. You can’t solve a problem with only one side, you need to look at both.

53. HM 53

    What probably happened was this:

    She dumps him because she isn’t satified with him and has the hots for another guy/potential guy.

    During the course of the breakup the “other guy” decides he doesn’t want her (probably because of the Ben and Jerry’s stains on all of her shirts)
    or
    Goes out and gets drunk with her friends thinking she’s going to pick someone else up and finds out it’s not as much fun than she thought (and no one at the bar wants her).

    Rejected, she wants her old boyfreind back and tries to project the anger from being rejected onto him by setting him up with the cheating question.

    Either way she feels bad/guilty about something…….and she’s taking out on him.

    HM

54. Evan Marc Katz 54

    Actually, Jersey, you’re missing one side of the story. You keep on looking at this from the victim’s perspective instead of saying, “If I cheated, would I confess? And if so, why?” That was the entire point of my post. Anything else you’re reading into this about me glossing over the pain and emotion of infidelity is simply not on the page.

    By the way, “I would never cheat!” doesn’t actually provide any insight as to why someone who cheated would voluntarily confess.

55. Hot Alpha Female 55

    Evan,
    I think that you have given some great advice. Firstly Brain was broken up. So he did not cheat on his girlfriend. Why is there even a debate about that?

    If she didn’t want him to see other girls, then she shouldn’t have broken up with him. But when you say its over. That pretty much means you can see anyone you want to…

    However i think honesty is the basis to a good and healthy relationship, so you SHOULD be upfront to your partner, should you want to get back with them after a short breakup.

    Does it benefit the guy by telling the truth? yes he does because then its not eating him up inside and the relationship can start from new ground.

    With that said, if the girlfriend is a little psycho then its harder for the guy to tell the truth. Because she could have a big hissy fit, which results in arguements and door slamming. N well this makes it harder for the guy to tell the girl.

    Remember, people will do more to avoid pain than to gain pleasure. That why its a hard but necessay step …

    Hot Alpha Female

56. Simone 56

    Re: the threads about cheating: If you cheat on someone you might want to tell the other person for a whole lot of reasons that benefit you — tops of the list being so that you can be in integrity with yourself. How awful it would be to be in an initimate relationship if you have to keep such a big secret, espcially knowing that it might come out one day. (Maybe in a similar moment of “hey what the hell” as leads to ONSs.) Integrity is about knowing yourself and making decisions in accordance with your beliefs, values, and life goals. If you cheat there is a reason. Maybe the relationship isn’t right for you. Maybe you have an inappropriate way of expressing your anger at your partner. Maybe you are afraid the other person is going to cheat on you or leave you and you want to beat that person to the punch. There is important information in the act of cheating. And it isn’t about male entitlement–plenty of women cheat and plenty of men don’t–it’s about breaking an agreement or acting out for some reason. And it is a power play, no question about it — so the other person is going to be pissed. Be prepared to lose your relationship if you cheat, whether you tell or whether you hide it. You can hide cheating, but you can’t hide the power play. The other person is going to push back in some way whether they know about the cheating consciously or not.

    The fellow in our story here, however, did not cheat, as there was no relationship agreement to break. It does sound though like he is the type of person to act out his feelings rather than be aware of them and make conscious decisions about his behavior. Because either he was finished with the relationship emotionally or he wasn’t. If he were then why go back? If he weren’t then why sleep with someone else? And what about that someone else — doesn’t she have feelings and hopes and expectations, too? When “negotiating” the ONS did he tell her “I just finished what has been a long and serious relationship for me and I just want to get laid to blot out whatever I am feeling at the moment and then never see you again.” I very sincerely doubt it. But I suspect that if the guy were REALLY into the truth, that is what he would have said. But it probably “just happened” and he probably really believes that “nobody got hurt” — because HE didn’t get feel bad about it. Like other posters on here, I find the empathy factor to be missing from this guy’s story. And maybe after 16 months of this kind of lack in the relationship his partner had enough and left him — only to be reminded of it when they reconciled. Or maybe she is emotionally manipulative and punishes him by breaking up, thinking that will change him, and his ONS was HIS way of pushing back. Maybe they BOTH have behaviors that are intended to hurt the other. Can this relationship be saved? I doubt it. Not as long as she thinks that by punishing him with a break up or anger that he’s going to become more aware of himself and of others (if that is what she’s doing), and not as long as he thinks that feelings and sex exist on two different planets (if that is what he thinks).

57. Simone 57

    Also — about men having more sex than do women. This seems to me to be something of a myth and not logical (since we invoke logic so often on this thread). With whom are these men having sex? With each other? I don’t think so, since the focus seems to be on men v. women. If we aren’t talking about homosexual activity, men are having sex with women, and since the population is pretty much 50% men, 50% women, when it comes to heterosexual liaisons, on average the genders are pretty much divided equally when it comes to frequency of engagement.

58. Simone 58

    Should clarify the above since it seems a non sequitor — instead of “having more sex” I should have said “desiring,” “wanting,” or “pursuing” sex more often, the idea here being to refute the idea that ONSs or NSA liaisons are the exclusive province of men and emotional, relationship-based sex is the exclusive province of women. No matter what people say (which might be based on societal expectations of the respective genders), look at their actions. All sorts of men are exclusive and don’t cheat and have emotional sex, and all sorts of women engage in ONSs and NSA sex and think nothing of it. The idea that the former are pussy-whipped and the latter are whorish is a bit outmoded, don’t you think? So to reduce Brian’s situation or a cheating scenario to “women just don’t get it” or “men are just dogs” (this isn’t a verbatim quote from a post, just paraphrasing and exaggerating to make the point) is too simplistic, I think. People have sex, people want to be loved, and therein lies the challenge.

59. m 59

    “By the way, I would never cheat! doesn’t actually provide any insight as to why someone who cheated would voluntarily confess.”

    EMK, I think what some of us may be saying is that it doesn’t matter whether the exclamation provides any insight or not.

    Here’s an analogy that came to me:

    Man and woman are going from NYC to Paris. Both agree that they want to get there fast.

    Man is arguing with woman over what incentives there are to take one of several ocean liners from NYC to Paris.

    Woman says that it doesn’t matter which boat they would take because the Concorde (or whatever the name of the plane is that they’re building now to supersede it) will take them faster than ANY boat — and they’ve already agreed that they need to get there fast.

    (Some of us) are Woman trying to take the plane.

    You seem to be the Man still trying to engage us in the argument about which boat!!

    “Don’t cheat! Or risk suffering the consequences (IF you haven’t been explicitly TOLD you will be left if you do)!” is the plane.

    “What are the disincentives to confess once you cheat?” are the boats.

    We need to get to Paris. You have agreed that you want to get there the fastest way possible. We are boarding the plane.

    Why are you still trying to make us talk about the boats??

60. Kat Wilder 60

    The thing about cheating is this: it changes the original agreement of the relationship if you enter into a committed monogamous relationship.

    If one partner decides he or she wants to screw around on the side, it directly impacts the other person’s ability to make a choice about whether he or she wants to be part of that. That partner’s choice is taken away, and that is never OK.

    I know from experience (as cheater and, um cheatee?) that it’s very, very easy to cheat if one wants to. But, you always have to lie. One easy lie begets another easy lie and, well, where does it stop? To me, the most important thing is to tell the truth; what matters is what happens AFTER you tell the truth, as in how you help your partner whom you betrayed learn to trust you again. Forgiveness, yes, is essential, but that doesn’t mean the relationship goes back to what it was. And if she can’t trust you again, well, that is part of the deal the cheater entered into when he decided to act on a desire when he shouldn’t have.

    The Quakers say, “Let your life speak.” That pretty much sums it up.

61. Nervous Nellie 61

    This thread struck a chord. Just yesterday, my boyfriend asked me if I had sex with anyone else while we were broken up. Unlike Brian, however, our relationship was only about 2 months old when I broke it off with him. Like Brian, I was honest and said I did have a one-night stand, but I did regret it afterwards. It happened because I was feeling very undesired, unattractive and OLD. I am 44-years old and he is 26. He did not react very well to my honesty, and is wondering now if I will cheat on him.

    Evan’s response, Steve’s post (#25) and Ron’s post (#41) made me feel better, but I still wonder if I should have lied to him since it really is none of his business.

62. hunter 62

    to brian,

    You were broken up, nothing wrong with seeing someone else, but, most women don’t understand that. Next time, use diplomacy, be tactful(don’t tell her the truth). What ever you do with your body is very personal, no ones business.

63. JerseyGirl 63

    Evan:
    “Actually, Jersey, you’re missing one side of the story. You keep on looking at this from the victim’s perspective instead of saying, If I cheated, would I confess? And if so, why? That was the entire point of my post. ”
    —————————————————————————-
    I’m not missing what you are saying. I just don’t find what I would or wouldn’t do, condusive to the topic. I never cheated, I have had the chance to. If I ever did cheat, I would have to tell them because I don’t think I could live with that relationship on good terms. It would eat away at me. I guess the “incentive” for me would be to confess to something I did wrong and at least in that respect, try to save some part of my intregrity. But for the cheater to look for their “incentive” to to do the right thing from the person they cheated on, is another cop out to something else they already copped out on. I could see why someone would do that, because they would be a complete douche. But I hardly find it to be an excuse or justification for their behavior. Or even all that much of a truly “rational” one. Just because you can rationalize a behavior, doesn’t mean it is actually all that “rational”.

64. Hot Alpha Female 64

    Hunter,
    While you make a very valid point, I think that honesty is always the best policy. Yes brian was broken up when he slept with that girl, so technically he wasn’t cheating. Technically he hasn’t done anything wrong. Technically he doesn’t have to tell anyone anything.

    But i think that he should tell her anyways. No she isnt going to act favourably. She isnt going to go ” ohh you slept with someone else why we were broken up” and start jumping up and down for joy.

    Its a bit of a predicatment and both outcomes are not looking favourable.

    I mean if you tell her, then she will be upset. If you dont tell her, will it eat start to eat you up? will you start feeling guilty, like you are not telling her the whole truth.

    I think you should be honest with her, if she can accept it .. then she is a girl that is worth to cont to have a relationship with. If she can’t … then why do you want to be with her anyways.

    If she can’t get over it .. the relationship wont go anywhere, anyways

    Hot Alpha Female

65. lorelei 65

    On whether or not it benefits the cheater to confess, I’d like to agree to disagree on this one, Evan. Because what you define as logical behavior or a “win” is informed by your own value judgments, which have more to do with emotion than reason… namely, that it would be more beneficial for you to keep the relationship you have – even if it means having to lie to someone you care about – than it is to come clean, and therefore, for you, that might be the logical choice.

    However, your logical choice assumes “integrity” and “doing the right thing” have less subjective value than maintaining status quo in the relationship. Others may not feel the same, myself and your ex-gf included.

    I liked what Murray T. had to say because he drew attention to the fact that “self-preservation” is defined differently depending on the type of individual. He knows it’s true as you say, Evan, that “self-preservation is almost always going to win out”, but for some, self-preservation means hanging onto someone you’re attached to even if it means concealing the truth in the process. For others, self-preservation is primarily about repairing one’s relationship with oneself — to be able to look back and know you were accountable for your mistakes, that you respected the partner in your relationship enough to not deny that person facts on which to make an informed decision.

    So in that way, I don’t see it as logical or a win/win to follow one’s error in judgment with more dishonest behavior. How is it a “win” to give yourself even more reason to dislike yourself?

    As far as putting myself in the cheater’s shoes instead of the victim’s, well, that’s easy for me. In younger days, I had my less proud moments of cheating, which I instantly regretted. On two separate occasions, as a matter of fact. Both times, I felt like dirt. During the first incident, my initial decision was to want to hide what I’d done and carry on with the relationship as though nothing happened.

    I take it you’re familiar with Edgar Allen Poe’s “The Tell-tale Heart”? Well it was like that. Not only was the self-criticism unbearable; I also started seeing my boyfriend differently. He became the dupe, a cuckhold, someone I (irrationally) respected less. It became obvious that what I needed to end those negative thoughts was full disclosure.

    This boyfriend forgave me. When I cheated on a later boyfriend, he wasn’t so forgiving and broke up with me on the spot. I’m glad I told him the truth anyway. The pain of losing him is long gone, but the pride of having taken the high road is still with me.

    Thing is…I’m not invalidating your point. For some, maybe it truly is the best thing for them to continue on with the deception, if they have the stomach for it. But I, personally, would want my partner to handle the situation in the same way I had done in the past.

    So I see your point, Evan. I hope you can see mine, and perhaps realize that your ex-gf doesn’t deserve so much vitriol for having held “moralist” opinions that perhaps weren’t so “absolutist” or “pie-in-the-sky” after all, seeing as how quite a number of your readers are sympathetic to her viewpoint.

66. wildgingersnap 66

    If you’ve cheated, you’ve already compromised your integrity and voluntarily confessing isn’t going to restore part of it.

    Confessing because it’s “eating away at you” is actually kind of selfish: you’re trying to shift some of the burden of your guilt to the other person and all it will do is destroy their peace of mind. If you can’t live with the relationship “on good terms”, then you should simply end it.

    But if you know you’ve screwed up and are absolutely, positively committed to not cheating again, then the kinder thing to do is not say anything and deal with the guilt on your own.

67. Evan Marc Katz 67

    I hear you, Lorelei, and I happen to concur with you personally. My conscience wouldn’t allow me to pull off cheating, much less lying about it. However, I will continue to maintain my very same original point: if a person DOES cheat, they are more likely than not going to attempt to conceal it, rather than confess. It kind of goes with the cheating thing. And I think a lot of readers weren’t truly thinking of what they would do as cheaters, but rather as victims who would want to know the whole truth.

    Simple comparison: We hate to admit this, but it’s okay if WE lie about our age, height, or weight online. I mean, just a little fudging, you know, because people aren’t really giving us a fair shot. But how DARE anyone else lie to us about these substantive things? It’s easy to say that we should/would all tell the truth; reality proves to us that most people lie if it’s in their best interests. And hey, if clearing your conscience is more in your best interests than preserving the relationship, kudos to you. You are, in my opinion, in the minority.

    I think this topic has been played out. I’m gonna stay off the boards. Thanks to all for their respectful and insightful commentary.

    Ev

68. JerseyGirl 68

    Comparing “fudging” on a profile to lying about cheating on someone, are not on the same scale.

69. Markus 69

    You know, I don’t condone cheating but Samantha’s post #17 seems a bit over the top. Sam, how noble are you being if you were willing to set up recording equipment to record an orgasm as revenge. I’m also a little curious of this guy recording your ex with 2 girls. What kind of circles are you running in? More importantly, I would like to caution Evan over leaving this post up as I think it could get him into legal trouble down the road. Evan, if I’m you I delete that post.

70. Anonymous 70

    Ron- my name is Rachel, but what the hell does that matter? I’m not afraid to state my name, I just feel as though it doesn’t give anything more away about me, so it is trivial. Grow up, says the person who criticized this woman for not being impervious to emotion. Right.

71. hunter 71

    To Haf,

    There are very few women that will forgive a man for doing what Brian did, even if they have broken up. And if they do, forgive, they won’t forget, and bring it up every chance they get. From another perspective, most men don’t realize, ridding oneself of guilt feelings, hurts women.

72. Hot Alpha Female 72

    Hunter,
    I think that is very true aswell. Girls want to know the truth, but when it is something they don’t like to hear, they still get pissed.

    I think if brian made that decision to sleep with someone else, then he has the deal with the concequences. That being that he can’t get back with his ex girlfriend or whatver.

    But hey you live and learn.

    Hot Alpha Female

73. jonquil 73

    hunter-
    it’s true that sometimes the one cheated on is better off not knowing, but I think it’s condescending for a cheater to make the decision: “oh, s/he just can’t handle it so I’ll generously spare my partner the truth”. The cheater was just being selfish by cheating, and then belatedly shows concern for the partner just cheated on? Doesn’t add up. “S/he just can’t handle it” is more often than not a convenient excuse to be weak and dishonest.

    evan,
    I’m a little confused by your last comment in this thread. You concur with lorelei and wouldn’t cheat or lie to a partner, but are upset at your former partner for asking you to be straightforward which you said you would do anyway? That sounds like a weird lover’s quarrel to me.

    Also I don’t think your original point was “if a person DOES cheat, they are more likely than not going to attempt to conceal it”. (I agree.) I think your original point was that your ex was “absolutist, moralist, pie-in-the-sky” for asking you not to conceal a hypothetical indiscretion. But then you basically agree with her morals?

    Perhaps your former partner brought the topic up repeatedly because she was confused by your answer too.

    Jonq

74. Evan Marc Katz 74

    Just when I thought I was out…they pull me back in!

    Once and for all, this was always an intellectual debate for me, both on this thread and in the relationship 5 years ago. It was never personal since a) I’ve never cheated. b) I don’t plan on cheating, c) I have such an incredibly guilty conscience and am so anxiety prone that it would be massively stupid to cheat.

    And yet, if I DID cheat and DIDN’T want to lose my relationship (because I’ve already been assured that I will), I can easily understand why I’d attempt to conceal it. It may result in my utter internal destruction, but, as we’ve established, self-preservation is a powerful thing. Why this is hard for some readers to reconcile, I’m not sure, but it makes perfect sense to me.

75. jonquil 75

    I think the reason it’s difficult for your readers to wrap their heads around your position, Evan, is that they can’t as “easily understand why [you'd] attempt to conceal it.”

    As has been repeated by several posters, the “self-preservation” reflex is strong, but again, what one reflexively does in “self-preservation” varies by individual.

76. Selena 76

    Evan,
    That premise is not hard at all for readers to reconcile. What you wrote though, was that telling a partner you would leave them if they cheated was giving them an INCENTIVE to lie to you if they did cheat. The partner delivering such a statement would do so in the hopes it would be an incentive NOT to cheat.

    Not that it really matters, if someone is gonna cheat, they’re gonna cheat and they already know they are putting their relationship on the line if their partner finds out. Whether they confess, whether the partner finds out another way, and regardless if the repercussions of cheating were ever discussed in advance or not.

    I’d be curious as to the percentage of cheaters who actually do confess as opposed to those who try to keep the secret. I suspect the latter far outweigh the former–cheating and lying going hand in hand they way they do. Self-preservation? Sure. But if telling someone upfront they’re out if they cheat doesn’t make them think twice about it, what would?

    Personally, I wouldn’t tell a partner that, I don’t see the point, it should be rather assumed. But I can see how another person would put it right up on the table and not see it as an invitation to be lied to.

77. jonquil 77

    Also, Evan, I’d like to respectfully point out that being able to empathize with a person who would lie after cheating to preserve a relationship is not a purely intellectual exercise. It takes some injection of one’s personal experiences & inclinations to take that position.

78. Jeannie 78

    Brian you were absolutely totally right in that you were technically free to do what you wanted. But Evan is also right – this is the “real world” and most women aren’t going to see that you are technically right. And here is why. for most of us women are brains are just hardwired to instinctually think sex=love. Its not logical to men – but its instinctual to women – it is what it is and we can’t help feeling that way (God knows many of us wish we could have sex with no attachment!). You spent 16 months ostensibly making love to this woman. And in a blink of an eye (in a woman’s timeframe) after your break up, you went out and did the exact same act with a woman you didn’t know. So what were you telling your girlfriend of 16 months by your actions in her language and her logic? That by having sex with her all those months, she meant as much to you as a one night stand?

    And let’s not forget about the other woman. She is not a blow up doll but a human being and a woman which means the odds are pretty high that she was thinking sex=love. For all you know, she could have been a victim of child sexual abuse who thinks the only way she is lovable is through sex. Or she could naively have been thinking (and so many of us women have fallen into this trap) that the connection you shared that night was so amazing that you were her soulmate and that is why you were having sex with her. She could also be desperate to have a baby and you could have been the unwitting sperm bank and child support check. Do you know if she is crying on her girlfriends shoulders now about the man who used her? What to you was just a grief stricken one night stand is pretty big stuff to a woman. Women are looking for gentlemen – and gentlemen don’t use women for sex. You effectively told your girlfriend that you are not gentleman so of course she is not going to want to be with you.

    I am sorry to be so harsh Brian. I really think you are good guy who was just acting out on misery. But if you want a relationship with a woman, then understanding a woman’s perspective in these matters is critical. I am sorry to say you have lost her – even if you get her back, she will never think of you the same way or respect you as before. Move on and learn from your experience. Best of luck to you!

79. hunter 79

    to Jeannie,

    What a wonderful response!….How true that women marry from the neck down….Men marry on paper with a certificate.

80. Selena 80

    Wow Jeannie. That was powerful. Thanks for writing that–an unvarnished truth.

81. vino 81

    I respectfully disagree with Jeannie. One of the great freedoms that have occurred over the last 45+ years is the freedom to be more sexual. this was driven by the feminist movement, who argued that marriage was essentially slavery for women. It used to be that for a man to have sex, he had to marry. Both parties were bound. Once the ‘sexual revolution’ began and it was no longer taboo to have sex without marrying, women were freed from the ‘slavery’ of marriage. Or relationships, for that matter.

    However, men were freed also. Men like Brian no longer have to marry to have sex. Same for women, BTW. In other words, women can have sex with whomever they, but so can men. As Brian proved, a plentiful supply exists of ladies who simply don’t mind a one night stand. I respectfully offer women whose “brains are just hardwired to instinctually think sex=love. Its not logical to men – but its instinctual to women – it is what it is and we can’t help feeling that way (God knows many of us wish we could have sex with no attachment!),” simply want to have it both ways, and are not truly ‘hardwired’ that way. There are plenty of women in Europe, for example, who just ‘need it’ when they’d like to have it, and don’t require a commitment for it. You also see this (US) here regarding “Friends With Benefits”

    “That by having sex with her all those months, she meant as much to you as a one night stand?” – Yes. THEY WERE APART. SHE HAS NO BASIS TO COMMENT. End of story. One of the best ways to get over a breakup is to have some meaningless sex as soon as possible. It’s such a boost to the self-esteem. Funy, it also damages Brian’s ex’s self-esteem, which is probably why she’s pissed. Good job, Bri. To Brian’s girlfriend: Too bad.

    Also, for Brian, others have said the same thing – if your ex is this pissed about you having sex with someone else while she’s an ex, what do you think will happen if you got back with her? Hell, she’d never forget it, never let you forget it, and will try to use it against you at every turn. Finally, to add insult to injury, she’ll probably go bang someone else WILE YOU ARE TOGETHER, just to ‘show you.’ Stay far, far away from this girl.

    Jeannie created a whole backstory for Brian’s one night stand using facts that simply do not exist, making this girl a victim. Unbelievable. Perhaps she is all the things Jeannie said (making the one night stand a victim). So? Perhaps she just wanted to get laid, nothing more. No victims there.

    ‘Gentlemen’ is one of those loaded terms that mean whatever the particular user wants it to mean. “Women are looking for gentlemen – and gentlemen don’t use women for sex.” – Nice victimization language. There’s no ‘using’ if both parties consent.

    Salient point Biran, is that you don’t ‘need’ a relationship to have sex. You’ve already proved that. Perhaps all of the hackles raise for the ladies on the board is that Brian just proved that his girlfriend was easily replaced. All girlfriends are, for that matter. Same applies to men too, BTW.

    Further salient point, Brian – If you want a relationship with a woman, the stuff posted here and that you see in your ex are what you have to deal with more often than not. You have to ask if it’s worth it.

    That’s my opinion.

82. Deathslayer 82

    My Girlfriend Broke Up With Me. I Slept With Someone Else. Have I Done Something Wrong?
    *
    She’s an EX!!!

    Unless she is paying bills, giving you money or you’re staying with her, WHO CARES WHAT SHE THINKS?!!

    She dropped you, you replaced her. Once she leaves, she’s no longer YOUR problem. If you want to be her emotional tampon and vibrator in reserve, that’s your call.

    The fact that you feel bad that you actually got laid from another woman who is not her shows you are still a HUMAN MALE.

    Why get back with her? If she dumped you once, she’ll do it again.

83. missy 83

    vino: “Jeannie created a whole backstory for Brian’s one night stand using facts that simply do not exist,”

    Now that’s a cracked pot calling the kettle black! Anyone else here read vino’s work of fiction – a.k.a. the “backstory” about – the woman who had kept her ex-bf’s baby? (refer to the topic Where Are All the Cute, Stable, Successful, Funny, Interesting Men?) Perhaps that woman told her ex he didn’t have be a father to the child or contribute a cent to the kid’s upbringing. No victims there either.

84. vino 84

    No, missy, but he was to blame for the failed relationship because he didn’t want the baby, remember? Please read carefully before some silly personal attack.

    Oh, and BTW, Jeannie did create facts that don’t exist.

85. Nervous Nellie 85

    Last month, I had told my bf that “if you want to be alone and go through things alone, then fine” (he was being a total jerk) . That same day, I decided to take a call from another man I have seen occasionally at work. It was just a call. We did NOT make plans to see each other, but were just “feeling” each other out because we both were a little nervous about seeing someone from work and the possible gossip and effect on our respective reputations should that happen. The following day, bf texted me telling me we were officially over. I texted him back and told him that I thought it was over since the day before and I had started talking to someone else.

    When I got back together with my bf, he gave me a hard time about that phone call, stating that I did not waste much time finding someone else, and even his roommate had said I was untrustworthy because I had started talking to someone else that day. I told bf that it was none of his business what I did when we were not together and that the fact I started talking to someone else so soon was not either. The attention being paid to me by someone kind and considerate was a balm and reminded me that there were other fish in the sea.

    We had not been dating that long…being on/off since September. I did not feel the need to mourn anything, particularly since he was a jerk at the end.

    That we are together again is a different story. I just wanted to reiterate my belief that once two people are broken up, what either one of them does afterwards isn’t the other’s business. And I told him he had no right to ask me about what I did while we were briefly broken up, but I did not have anything to hide. It was just a phone call.

86. The Other Guy 86

    Really enjoyed reading the therapeutic posts!
    I’m a guy who broke up with my girlfriend of ten months, and she dated/slept with another guy two weeks later (they met a week after we broke up). Yes, according to a mutual friend we were technically broken up, and there is the shallow argument people are free to do as they please, but serious relationships deserve some respect, people generally put a lot into them, and feel strongly, deeply. Example: she wanted to marry me, have children, etc.Of course they no longer see each other. We’re back together.

    We broke up not because we didn’t love each other, we did. I lived two hours away, was going through a job change and it was uncertain where that would take me, farther away from her? Didn’t know. After 3 weeks I called, learned what happened, was devastated, moved to the same city she lives in and committed to a career change and her. It was a radical and ridiculous move, a desperate act by a man in love, doing whatever it took to save a relationship, I still question my sanity at times. And it’s been rough, what she did hurt like a m*********er, caused doubt, trust issues now, not sure I knew her, etc She seemed to regret it, hate herself for it. So I’m trying to.forget it, understand it, and to some degree I do, but a woman who says I want to marry you, have your children, etc you wouldn’t really expect her to move on that quickly.nor would you a guy.

    As for Brian sure, technically you did nothing wrong, it’s a gray area though. Relationships of a year or more deserve some respect, others that give themselves to relationships that long, deserve some respect, and this you do with actions, deeds, not words. Your ex is filled with doubt, wonder, perhaps some confusion, all she needs is you help rejuvenate that. The argument you have the license to f*** yourself silly the moment a LTR is over is simply immature, not mindful, nor deep nor genuine nor sincere. People ideally should show each other respect, show relationships respect. If you can’t show a relationship respect on leaving it, what do expect to show the next relationship that comes along? It’s an attitude, and ideal, best keep those deep and genuine and away from banal excuse for self indulgent behavior.

87. hunter 87

    To the other guy, on Post #86

    We try and relate to each other for a minimum of 12 months, all this time, collecting information, about your partner. During all this, we try not to bare our soul….

88. Andres 88

    Brian

    You have nothing to feel bad about. You were broken up and I suggest you let her go. No matter what just move on.

    You broke up for a reason and it’s obvious you can still have pick up skills with woman.

    Take that to the next night out with your buddies and enjoy yourself!

89. Jessa 89

    Oh wow, this really kind of strikes a chord. My opinion is this. If they really said that they were not getting back together and meant it at the time, him having sex with someone else doesn’t mean that he cheated on her–BUT

    I think for him to have sex that soon was low. A 16th month relationship? To have a ONS is purely immature and demeans what sex is about. The fact that he is actually put it on this site and is questioning it–he must know he did something wrong. Not only to the sanctity of what was to their relationship, but to himself. You just dont go around flinging your dick at people like that.

90. Kenley 90

    Brian,
    In my mind, the only person who gets to decide exactly how long you sleep with someone else after a breakup is YOU…not your mom, your dad, your brother, your best friend, people on this blog, and definitely not the girl who dumped you. Some people need lots of time, others don’t. There is no right or wrong here. People often want black and white when the world, people, and relationships are many shades of grey. Do what feels right to you. Period. I think the greatest people in this world live life on their own terms in love and all things. The external pressure of you should or you ought to can be crippling. Don’t be a victim of it.

91. Kevin 91

    I agree that the one-night stand may show your character and be detrimental to her view of you. You can pretend to be dating a new girl to make her jealous. I guess you just need to figure out your long-term plans as a couple.

92. mrs stone 92

    you know i find it extremely funny how men get over things so quickly. after a 16 month relationship you wait 2 weeks to get “back on the saddle” i dont know if it was the need to get over the break you that compelled you or whether youre just a promiscuous guy but honestly you need to think about how you would feel if she had done the same! as far as one night stands are concerned i must admit i avoid them, i guess i’m just one of those people who live life cautiousely away from the edge of the cliff if you know what i mean! in the end the only person who can decide whether you were right or wrong is you! we cannot change the past, but we can most definitely learn from it! good luck in your future relationships!

    mrs stone´s last blog post…Having sex in the clubs toilet while drunk

93. ohelinda 93

    I know this is an old thread, but… I just found it!

    EVAN you are ignoring one IMPORTANT thing!

    “Unless men feel that they will be forgiven for cheating, they have NO INCENTIVE to tell the truth. ”

    Incentive?? Ha! Am I wrong in assuming that the person who is in a long term relationship actually CARES for me and my health??

    This is what I have told my current and some of my previous boyfriends “I am in this relationship with you because I assume we both care about one and other. If you ever start thinking of pursuing another women, simply break-up with me first and you will be free to stick it where ever you like. If, however, it happens by “accident” when you are drunk or if you regret it afterwards and decide that you want to continue a relationship with me then DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES (not even with a condom) SLEEP WITH ME after your fling without me knowing that you were with someone else BECAUSE I WANT TO HAVE THE CHOICE whether or not I risk getting an STD from you! Just because you made a mistake, does not mean that you can take it upon yourself to risk MY life and health. Do not try to spare my feelings, at that point it is not what is relevant to me, spare my health. If you really care about me, don’t cheat on me of course, but more importantly if you do cheat for what ever reason, please at least let it be my choice to risk getting an incurrable desease.”

    No I don’t think I am being overly dramatic by saying “risk my life” not just health because if I happen to get AIDS or HERPES because of your cheating -you have risked my LIFE! I would consider getting either of the two devastating and know it would change my life for the worse.

    I am not even arguing that the female that would have a one night stand with Brian or my hypothetical or past boyfriend did not do it for the first time and therefore is at a high risk of having an STD. I know for a fact that you can get an STD from a VIRGIN and also that you can get an STD even if you wear a condom. Yes that is wright. If you do not know this, i suggest you go do some reading on STDs.

    Yes maybe I am naive in assuming that my partner would care enough about me to at least break up with me if he did sleep with someone else and did not want to tell me.

94. Nicole 94

    The same thing happened to me. My boyfriend broke up with me, and 2 months later I hooked up with another guy. Now he wants me back and says he can’t trust me b/c of that. LAME

95. Olivia 95

    Can you tell me please if you would see this the same way if the roles were reversed? I am recently in turmoil because of a similar problem and I don’t know what to do.
    While in a relationship with my now ex boyfriend he asked me to promise that after we broke up I wouldn’t sleep with anyone he knew, especially one guy in particular who was my first boyfriend (but we were young and never slept together). I lost my virginity to my ex and we were very close for two years. I said I would never sleep with this other guy because I was so happy with my ex, why would I? The thought was ridiculous. My ex and I broke up for various other reasons but we remained friends as much as possible and it was a stressful long drawn-out seperation. I couldn’t be without him and kept desperately trying to get back with him but he wouldn’t. Not for months. I even said I’d leave the country to work somewhere if he wouldn’t have me back, and he still said no. He’d give me a bit of hope for a while and then just dash it. I couldn’t cope.
    I was so lonely and depressed and during this time, the ‘other (forbidden) guy’ comes back, and we start chatting, realise we have lots in common with how we were feeling, and shortly after he’s telling me he’s in love with me. We slept together and I regretted it so much. I had to tell my ex, which I shouldn’t have done, but I didn’t want him to hear from someone else and I couldn’t lie to him. He’s told me never to call him again, that he’ll never forgive me, that I shouldn’t dare try to ever contact him, and that I’m a liar and he’s glad he’s not with me.
    I’m broken hearted. I don’t know how to go on. He’s changed all of his details so I can’t contact him.
    I love him so much, and that was just a stupid stupid mistake at a weak moment. I hate myself for it. I can’t eat or sleep. If I can’t have him back, which I know now I can’t, then I just want to be friends but he said he’ll never speak to me again after what I’ve done. I never, ever did this for revenge.

96. Sebastian 96

    I am exactly in Brian’s situation. I miss the ex so horribly, and what some have said is right, it indeed is a gray area. Basically for me it was 2 weeks later I started dating someone else, then it moved on from there. Now I am filled with regret because the ex is so angry and disgusted with me that I pretty much have destroyed my chance to get back with her (if I had any chance at all).

    Basically I now have to hope that she will forgive me and hopefully give me another chance. She asked me straight out what I had done with the new girlfriend and I answered honestly because if I was going to have any shot with her again, I was going to have to be honest on what was going on. I was with her for 2 years, so I have a lot of respect and love for her.

    Like the person above posted, I am depressed as well, it’s devastating when someone breaks up with you and gives you the impression that it’s over (like really over how I thought it was, now thinking it was foolish to think like that)

    and then when you want them back, they are angry that you messed around with someone else while broken up. But to be fair, if she had done that, I probably would be equally as angry. What can I say? I guess we are all hypocrites in the end and it really sucks ass because this isn’t easy shit to get over.

    Honesty is the best policy, if the girl refuses to get back with you, then there’s nothing you can do, but it still REALLY sucks. I don’t think I’ve ever felt this much pain in my life (emotionally speaking). But basically my advice (and what I learned from all of this is) to anyone is, DO NOT RUSH THINGS. If you get dumped, fucking wait and take your time. If I had known this was going to happen to me, I would have waited months before getting involved with anyone else again because this hurts so much.

    What hurts a lot deep down is that she thinks because of all of this that she never meant anything to me. But that’s not true! It’s just after the breakup I did not know what to do, I figured it was really over for good that I should start moving on and getting back to the single life. I just did not expect to meet anyone new that fast! Now I am kicking myself because I miss her so much and I feel like nothing I say can get her to forgive me or consider being with me again as her lover and best friend.

    It’s like re-experiencing the breakup but it hurts even more than the original. =(

    Guys, if you are in a situation where you just got dumped and think it’s over, don’t do a damn thing but wait it out. Don’t go out and meet anyone else right away. Wait a while to make sure 100% it is OVER. I don’t know if I will meet anyone as special as her again, it was freak luck how we even met in the first place. I never imagined we’d be separated.

    She asked me and I answered honestly because I did not want to hide something like that from her because she means so much to me. I only wish I could “turn back time” as she said (in response to me asking her what can I do to fix all of this).

    If you get dumped, wait it out….. Don’t be in a rush like I was….. When I was dumped, I was so confused, I was okay at first, but after a few weeks of being with the new girlfriend, the feelings hit me so hard on how much I missed my ex gf. She really was the light in my life and now I am so empty inside as a result of being in a hurry. She always meant the world to me and I hope God somehow gives her the grace to forgive me and to hopefully love me again the way she once did….

97. Sebastian 97

    What I should clarify from my post above is that the sex (rather the attempts with the new gf) did not occur till maybe a 4 weeks-ish? after the breakup, but it’s still basically the same situation…

98. Sonja 98

    I am in the GF's situation and, after finding out about my dear dear BF's "interim" activities, went from gung-ho lovingly ready to try again (you can't throw away 3 years and lots of strong, honest love) to totally creeped out by the idea of having his children. It used to be all I wanted in the WORLD. My perspective is that a man who cannot remain steadfast though pain and trial will be a piss-poor father and leader of a family. Life is painful enough without a weak person at the helm. Bless my BF's heart but this is impossible to ignore–whether logically or instinctively, I frankly don't care.

99. Karl R 99

    Sonja said: (#98)
    "My perspective is that a man who cannot remain steadfast though pain and trial will be a piss-poor father and leader of a family. Life is painful enough without a weak person at the helm."
     
    Let me see if I have this straight — When your relationship went through a painful trial, you broke up with your boyfriend with whom you'd had "3 years and lots of strong, honest love," even though things were still good enough that you were later "gung-ho lovingly ready to try again." From my perspective, that makes you weak and lacking in steadfastness as well.
     
    If you don't want to reconcile with your boyfriend, that's fine. If you're creeped out (as a purely emotional reaction), that's fine. If you try to justify your decision not to reconcile because your boyfriend is weak and lacks steadfastness, you're a hypocrite.
     
    And regardless of whether you reconcile with your boyfriend or end up with another man, that man is going to have to accept you as you are: weak, unsteadfast and hypocritical. You'd better hope that man is willing to accept flaws in his wife that you're unwilling to accept in your husband.

100. Katie 100

     Sebastian-

     I am in the same sitch as your ex. Yes, I finished the relationship (5 years in all) because we were taking each other for granted etc, I just felt I had no fight left and wanted to make it quick and painless as possible for us both. The look on my BF face as I ended it will stay with me forever, it was the biggest mistake I’ve ever made and will (quite possibly) regret it for the rest of my life.
     What followed was worse. After 8 weeks apart I was a mess, missed him like crazy and felt like the regrets were swallowing me whole. I called him up and we went for a drink, and he confessed he felt exactly the same as me – lost, hurt and confused… and that he’d slept with someone else one week after we broke up.
     My god the pain of hearing that, I didn’t think it would ever leave me. I had been too sad about losing him to even consider kissing another guy, let alone sleeping with someone!
     Anyway after (us both) shedding a lot of tears, I decided to let it go and try again. We’re going from strength to strength, and I’m starting to laugh about it now!
     All I’m saying is don’t give up, she’s just hurt and has probably felt her ego take a huge beating. After the initial shock and pain has worn off, she’ll start to see it logically (like I did) I was the one who ended it, it’s not as if he did it behind my back and had the balls to tell me. I’ve got a good one and I won’t be letting him go again
     Hope things work out for you.

     Katie

101. Sad 101

     I’m baffled by why most posters don’t even talk about STDs and pregnancies. What happened if the guy in the story got his ONS pregnant or caught an STD? A little bit harder to forgive now isn’t it?
     Personally I’m in a similar situation except more painful. My guy broke up with me, slept with his roommate a few days after and asked for another try, all within a week. Only he DID NOT tell me what he had done on his 1 week break. Is it really none of my business that he slept with someone else? I slept with him before and after the break, he exposed me to who knows what STDs. Isn’t my personal health a factor? Shouldn’t it be out in the open instead of hidden? Shouldn’t I have the right to have the facts and make a decision?
     He called and told me he slept with her for one reason and one reason only, she’s pregnant and five months along. Every action has a consequence. Was he cheating? Technically no. Do I feel replaceable? yes. So now I have to decide whether it’s worth it to be with a man who is living with his pregnant roommate, the one person I specifically asked him not to sleep with because I was worried that his roommate was female. Of course my request was moot because he broke up with me.
     My personal view on the article’s situation is this…  If your relationship is dead, no revival, no nothing, go wild. Sleep with whoever you want. It’s your choice. But if there is a chance you might get back together in a short time frame, DON’T DO IT. A month wouldn’t have bothered me. A couple days, hell yeah that bothers me! And if you have any integrity, respect, or care for your Girlfriend/guyfriend, say something!!! They deserve to know what you did and make the choice if they want to get back together.

102. CG 102

     I am in a similar boat…My GF and I have been together for 4 years…we lived together and decided to date till the end of your lease  together and then get separate places.  We got in a huge fight Friday afternoon, in which she talked about me seeing others…but I being too dense did not get she was saying she was going to see someone else.  It turns out she was talking with someone that week.  She slept with someone that weekend and when I came back to apologize and talk with her…well…everything had already happened.  I wanted to reconcile but a week later she told me she slept with someone else that weekend.  It’s been 3 months and I have tried to step around it but it really has sent a wrecking ball through my head.  She is wanting things to workout and appears truly sorry.  But as others have said…it makes you feel quite replaceable..and technically you can be replaced physically quickly…but the years together are not so easily replaceable as we both found out.  It sucks…patience in this situation is your best bet.  I would think at least a day anyways!

103. Lucy 103

     It was a ONS.  There was no intimacy, no tenderness.  No promises the broken-up couple were trying to uphold. (“No hints of getting back together.”)  Of course it’s going to be difficult for the ex-gf to stomach Brian sleeping with someone else because what was once her sacred space was occupied by a new woman.
     But I don’t think he should feel guilty about it.  My ex, who said he’d do ANYTHING to get back together with me, recently had an intimate (although no-sex) vacation with another woman.  Making out, snuggling, talking deeply (about their recent heartaches).  And now he has no chance with me, the “love of his life.”
     Why?  Because he SAID one thing then DID something that seems very, very contradictory to me – even if I’m the one he loves.  Also because being physically close with women is something [my ex] has almost exclusively done with girlfriends.  As in, it’s a big deal.  Goodbye, Trust.
     Brian did not act like a jerk.  So he shouldn’t feel bad.  It’s just crummy circumstances in his case that are difficult to reverse.  Sorry, Brian!!!  If you really want to win her back, I recommend not doing anything (whilst broken up) that you wouldn’t do while together.  Sucks, but when love is concerned, it’s more important to weigh things with emotional logic rather than the “rational” type.

104. Nolo King 104

     This was looking good until you started to encourage cover ups, not sure why you even went there, lawls!

105. DEx2 105

     Technically, it wasn’t cheating.  But, break-ups are not always easy, on either party.  And although technically, shacking up when broken up isn’t ‘wrong’.  But, it might also explain why she probably broke up with him to begin with.  Two weeks isn’t a long time… shows lack of care for her, and the relationship.  Bruised ego = instant gratification, probably why he did it.  But, shows her something different.

     How would he have felt if the situation was reversed, and she was with some dude two weeks after him? would he be as forgiving? I doubt it.  I’m sure he’d feel the sting.

     That would make me feel as if I meant nothing to him.  She probably felt that towards the end of the relationship, possibly why she dumped him to begin with.

     I broke up with my ex, we were together for 7 years.  One month later, he’s already with someone else.  Am I suprised? no.  It’s why I dumped him.  Wasn’t treating me how I deserved to be treated.  He tried calling me a few times, but I wouldn’t answer.  I still won’t answer.  And it’s because I know what’s going on (he doesn’t know I know..). 

     If they don’t show much care during the relationship, chances are… they won’t show much after.  And shacking up to soon… will only confirm she made the right decision.  Think before you act.  If you truly believe it’s over, and want to be w/ someone else.. fine.  But if in your heart, you know you’re not over someone yet.. why not take some time to heal instead of rebounding to someone who means nothing, rather than hurting someone who means something to you?

     And to the guy who re-activated his dating site account only a day after she broke up with you… no wonder she dumped you.  Doesn’t sound like you were all that invested in her, or the relationship anyway.  She obviously meant nothing to you… and you must’ve felt so desperate and hurt that you couldn’t wait to get the attention of someone else…

     Men, you need to seriously step up, be men, and grow up.  If you love her… let her know it by your ‘actions’, even if you think there’s no hope, to give it at least a month to show her she made a mistake… be patient, be forgiving.. if they are worth it to you, what’s a month? really? you people can’t hold out for a month?  And, sleeping w/ someone else so soon after a break-up, is not one of those actions… if you want to show some action… how about showing some self-control.. and that she does mean something to you.. there are plenty of easy women available, at any time, so why rush to shag some stranger.. and lose someone you love? Just sayin’

106. Rapz 106

     Brian did nothing wrong as he was single.. However he should of had more respect for her and himself. As she left him though he had every right to do what he did.. she felt hurt because she still cared for him.
     This reminds me of situation i had two years ago.. and YES im a guy who had this exact situation but the other way around.
     Okay so my ex gf suddenly broke up with me; we kept arguing etc and falling out. The thing is during this breakup she seemed to argue regardless of how calm i was and she seemed to just exaggerate that i didnt care.. not true. Anyway she took her relationship status off without even telling me, i found out. Eventually she cooled down and came back to apologizing. Problem is she never gave a real reason for the breakup although i acted grown up and alpha most of the time.
     The problem was i didnt really want to be the new ex gf pal friend type but she then made moves towards me showing she still liked me so i thought i would forgive her. We were making good steps, less arguements than usual and then one night she sleeps over and we have sex. AFTER sex she tells me she slept with someone else (by this time we’d been broken up 2 weeks) and this kinda hurt alot.. she was still technically single as was i but the thought we were getting back and i was confident of this by how she was made me feel everything was good again. But to not only leave me for someone else but then tell me after sex kinda peed me off.. She was crying about it too.
     See the problem here was that she ‘emotionally cheated’ (she didnt cheat as she was single). Emotionally cheating is what i describe as someone whos emotional needs are else where.. in other words she’d been seeing this guy behind my back during our relationship then she broke up with me just to have sex with this guy a week later.. thats how i saw it.. yes it hurt because it was like the relationship meant nothing to her, it was like she was a waste of time to me and for this reason i never took her back. If this was some random guy i would of prob not felt as bad but this guy she had sex with was a local guy she used to know 3 yrs ago who she kinda had feeling for but never dated..
     Apparently she brought up how she disliked this guy several times during the relationship towards the end.. the problem here is that she hung aroun with several times during our relationship behind my back.. she then kissed him while drunk once.. i let her off thinking it was because she was mad at me.. i said if she did it again she would be gone.. funnily enough she did just that.. left me for him. I told her i could no longer trust her a person and its true.. why should i be with this type of person. I moved on..

107. Rich 107

     I have to chime in here.  

     I feel soooooo guilty.

     My Girlfriend broke up with me.  I hurt.  I mean I really hurt bad.  For 2.5 weeks.  Could hardly work, difficulty foucusing, tears.  The whole bit.

     We lived and worked together for about 1.5 years.  I was in love.  We bought each other rings two weeks before the breakup.  As a symbol, a reflection of our commitment to each other.  It’s so sad , I think i might cry right now…

     Anyways, I finally made it out of my house one night and ended up meeting this girl and we went to a party.  She drove me home and came inside.  We fooled around but didn’t have sex. (i declined, she thought we should)  I was very very clear with her about how hurt I was and my feelings I still harboured for my X.  It was actually the topic of conversation for the majority of the evening.  I was also very clear that I just wanted to have fun and try to ease the pain for awhile and was enjoying her company. 

     Now, my X has started texting, saying she misses me ect…ect…

     and i feel that I have somehow betrayed her.   She is the type of girl who will simply NOT understand.  Her response will be how could you kiss another girl when you still have feelings for me???  

     She will find out as well.  it’s not a simple solution of not telling her.  I live on a very small Island and everyone knows each other and she has friends here.  And even if she doesn’t, If we get back together I will have to tell her.  It’s just the way I am. 

108. Sebastian 108

     Well, after a year and a half, and a lot (A LOT) of soul searching, and etc etc.
     I’d like to follow up from my prior post. As you recall (if you read my post above), I was seriously hurt and going through a lot of hell at the time. That was easily one of the most difficult periods of my life. I’m a pretty young guy (25), so this shouldn’t be too surprising to some of you fellow readers out there.

     Anyways! After battling a LOT of depression, and being totally confused, and really getting to know myself better, I can finally look back on the events that had taken place, with a clear head, and mended heart, and put it into MUCH better context. By the way, my posts above were from June of 2010. It is December 2011 as I write this.
     The aftermath and conclusion (summer of 2010 to fall of 2011:
     ———————————————————————–
     So, I was devastated, the ex had started seeing someone else, and was constantly guilt tripping me for trying to get over her (when she had dumped me 3 times). So just to clarify, I only tried moving on initially because she had kept dumping me in such a short frame of time. So I was not in the wrong, even if the timing on my part was not the greatest.

     I later realized that if she had really wanted to be with me, she would have done everything possible to forgive me and work it out. She constantly made excuses, placed the entire blame on my shoulders, and not only decimated my heart at the time, but pretty much twisted my emotions up to such a degree, that I had ended up going down a path whereby I battled the most intense form of depression I would ever face.
     In other words, after reflecting on the entire relationship, I realized that she never really loved me to begin with. There were MANY signs that I chose to ignore (out of love of course), and because she didn’t want to take emotional responsibility for this, she manipulated me big time!

     So, I started engaging in irresponsible behavior because at that point, I had just emotionally gone over the edge. I started sleeping with a woman I barely knew because I was so desperate to revive my self esteem and move on. This didn’t last very long, and it kind of made me feel worse (dirty) inside.

     My final year of college started right after that, and I started experimenting with drugs (weed). It wasn’t the end of the world, but it definitely had a significant effect on me overall, as a person. A few months later, I slept with another girl a couple of times, and that didn’t go anywhere. Didn’t end well either and I also got super paranoid, thinking I may have gotten her pregnant, or caught a disease even. Thankfully nothing of that nature occurred, and I moved on. So… A few months goes by, I was taking a break from women since I was on the verge of emotional meltdown, etc.

     Surprise: The drug use, although very moderate and sort of harmless, started to take a negative turn. I started developing intense anxiety, and what is classified as depersonalization in the world of psychology. This feeling of being “not attached”, or however you want to describe this, was probably the creepiest time in my entire existence. Everything felt like it was coming to an end, and I felt dead inside, and just overall, depressed, like I was done.

     So, in early April (2011 by this point), I was high, and my mother had come into my room to speak with me about something (nothing serious, just a random topic or errand, etc.), and I felt like I almost didn’t know her anymore. That was of course, the paranoia/depersonalization from the drug use. I became very heart broken inside that this change in me had occurred, and I started to feel like I deserved to die. You can probably imagine, I was very sad and felt a lot of despair by that point. So I said “forget this garbage”, and quit smoking marijuana the same night.

     By mid may, I had secured employment for a job, and had just graduated from my program. Things were looking up!
     Without going into excessive detail, I experienced what is best described as, a physical withdrawal (from quitting the weed). I experienced the most powerful moodswings and adrenaline rushes I had ever felt. My strength was quadrupled, and my depression was at an all time high. I was so angry at everything. My parents were pretty concerned.

     Then this is where I started to get scared. My depersonalization was still somewhat in the picture, and I was not 100% back to myself. Bad news though, I started experience cryingspells and very low moods. I always felt like I wanted to cry. This was uncontrollable, and I didn’t have any idea what was going on. I thought maybe I had caused some sort of a chemical imbalance from the previous drug use. Even if it was only moderate.

     The end of the summer was approaching, and I was starting to feel lonely. I started online dating again, went on some dates, and was disappointed (as usual). Then a very interesting girl decided to contact me. I thought “what the heck” and went for it. Initially, the first date went very very bad, on both ends and we were both totally put off. We followed up, surprisingly enough, right after, and hit it off and ended up in a relationship!

     Though I was still very damaged from the previous year’s breakup, it was not easy opening up. I was still very depressed, and explained to my new gf that I had gone through a lot, and she explained that she had as well. I tried smoking marijuana once more (3 sessions over a 2 week period), to see if that would alleviate the pain.
     The first time, felt nice and familiar, and it really helped me open up to the new girlfriend. It helped me say all the mushy things I bottled up inside about how I was afraid to scare her, and all the other fears a lot of guys are afraid to open up about. She was very flattered, and to my relief, she told me she felt the same about me. I felt very happy. Though I still felt uneasy from the weed, but I had a feeling that’d happen anyways.
     2nd time, same thing, opened up more. That bond grew even more!
     On the third time, I had the most intense/scariest panic attack of my entire life. I smoked right before bed this time, and figured it would make for a fantastic sleep. I was wrong and thought I was going to die. The next day, I saw my new gf, and completely broke down because of it. She comforted me and I felt very close to her. She showed she would be there for me. I stopped smoking weed.

     I dealt with some more depression after that, the life changing kind, but got through it eventually. My girlfriend stuck it out with me and me and her have never been happier! She is a MUCH better girlfriend than my ex could have ever been. and I want to tell all of you who are hurting right now, do not worry, a BETTER lover will come along. Give yourselves time, this is not an easy thing to experience or get through. A very painful breakup can be seriously disorienting. Oh, and the paranoia and depersonalization symptoms, are pretty much gone. I feel back to my old self, just much more wiser, and happier, and more stable.

     Thank God I finished college and found an amazing girl who truly cares about me. All of you out there will find the one. Oh, and praying to God here and there never hurts either. I am very doubtful on that stuff these days, but I have no doubt that it helped me throughout my journey.

     Anyways, I hope this post gives people out there some hope!

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