He Wants to Date Other Women Because I’m a Busy Single Mom
Hi Evan, I have been reading your blog for a while now, and am appreciative of the insights I’ve learned. I am working towards balancing a dating life while raising two amazing daughters. I have a full time career and a fairly active social life. I recently met a wonderful man online who similar to me has been divorced and has children. He typically has dated women without children as he found it was less complex. We went out four times in one month, and in between there was a strong connection we both verbalized and confirmed experiencing. I was surprised by his uncharacteristic request to date other women as he felt once a week wasn’t enough time to build momentum between us.
I told him I was happy to have met him and that we shared a connection, but wouldn’t be open to the idea of other people and cut things off. Intellectually, I feel I’ve made the right choice. However, I understand my lack of availability may be a big issue for anyone. My heart is having second thoughts and wondering if I should have been open to the consideration of getting to know him better while being open to meeting others? Is that healthy? I’ve dated a good amount of men, and on many levels he seemed wonderful. The “dating other people” bit threw me for a loop and hoping you might share your thoughts. Thanks Evan. –Single Mom
Thanks for your question, Single Mom, because it’s a great reminder that sometimes a strong connection isn’t always enough to get a relationship off the ground.
There are a few things that I could stand to know about you that would give me more clarity on your situation – namely, your age, his age, and the ages of your respective children. Without that, I’m sort of flying blind here.
If a man is really young, he’s probably used to dating women without children, who are, by definition, a lot more available.
Because there’s a big difference between a 32-year-old man and a 57-year-old man.
And there’s a big difference between a 1-year-old and a 16-year-old child.
If a man is really young, he’s probably used to dating women without children, who are, by definition, a lot more available. Why should he settle down with a woman who can only give him one night a week when he can have a girlfriend who can give him three or four nights? That’s right: he shouldn’t.
And if either of you are raising young ones, they’re a lot more all-consuming than if you’ve got high-schoolers who can largely take care of themselves.
These circumstances will dictate a lot, whether you like it or not.
So the real question isn’t about this guy, per se. He’s just a placeholder for all men that you’re going to encounter as a single mom.
To figure out what to do the next time you meet a wonderful man, let’s backtrack:
Was this guy wrong for wanting a woman who’s more available? No.
Were you wrong for refusing to accept his open-relationship terms? No.
As such, there’s no cause for you to agonize or lament what went down. He did what was right for him. You did what was right for you.
Ultimately, he’ll find the childless girlfriend who can give him more time.
And you’ll find the single dad who understands your predicament and embraces it.
Doesn’t that feel a lot better than worrying that you let some guy get away?
I sure hope so.
P.S. If EVERY guy feels that you don’t have enough time for him between work, kids, hobbies, friends, family and your “active” social life, then yes, maybe you need to make a few cutbacks. But that’s another conversation for another day.
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75 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Selena 1
Do you really only have one night a week to spend time with someone? Not only does that not seem enough to get a relationship off the ground, it doesn’t seem enough to keep a relationship going either. At least beyond the casual level. And the casual level was essentially what this guy was offering you when he brought up dating others.
Is your ex in the picture in terms of custody/visitation? Is he someone you could work with to get more ‘childfree’ time for yourself? If that isn’t an option, perhaps you can work with the parents of your children’s friends – you take turns with them taking each others kids to give each parent some free time. If it’s your already active social life that doesn’t leave you time for cultivating a romance, why not cut back on that? That is, if finding a potential love is important to you.
You may find another single Dad who understands your one night a week situation, as Evan suggested, but I think your prospects are better if you can find a way to give more time to another person.
sthrnphoenix 2
Kudos, Evan! On the face of it, I completely agree on all points. It’s a shame a divorced dad can’t be more understanding, but these things happen. In the end, you really want someone who will be understanding that you are a single mom with all the stuff that goes with it, and he’ll support and encourage you. I too am a single mom with a preschool aged child and a teenager, with a full time career. I can’t drop everything for a spur of the moment date and have to plan ahead for anything over night or far away. I have been fortunate enough to develop a relationship with a divorced dad who is very understanding and goes out of his way to help me see him. They are out there; just keep looking!
Heather 3
EMK,
I actually agree with the guy who asked if he could see other women, due to the OP’s time restraints. I’ve dated some single Dads who were very busy with their kids, which left limited time for me to go on dates with them.
I had to learn that those kids would always come first, not me, and while that is good for the kids, it’s not good for me. I’d never been in a relationship where I had been put first, and I knew it was high time to expect that for myself. I just had to learn that dating men with kids would probably be way less than ideal for me and that my focus should probably be on men my age who had kids very young, and are in high school or college, or men with no kids.
And so far, that’s worked just fine. My guy and I are both agreed, we both do not want kids. I’m glad I learned that lesson instead of banging my head on that same wall, over and over.
And to the OP, hey, at least the guy told you what was up, instead of dodging your calls or texts, or just going behind your back.
Sandy 4
Why can’t the new boyfriend come to your house for dinner with your kids and hang out? Why can’t he bring his kids over? This is what is going to happen if you stayed together so you should have offered to blend the kids a bit because really there is no other way when your both single parents or even if one is a single parent. What I have found is a lot of men don’t have custody of their kids but every other weekend. To me that is not being a parent at all, that is visiting your own kids. Women really should demand joint custody in divorce so they don’t always have the responsibility and can have time to search for another partner.
david 5
As a (childless, single) guy who’s about to turn 42, I feel for this guy — you have a great connection, but you only see that other person ONCE a week — 4 times a month…in which there are 30-31 one days.
He wanted to move it up to the “boyfriend/girlfriend” level and that’s really not one night a week (not even the whole day — just a few hours)….
(A great example who wanted a committment, folks! see, he exists!!!!)
After dating even planners, nurses, people in production, if I can’t spend at least 2 nights a week (at least!!!) with someone, I’m moving on…
because he’s right — you can’t build something only on a few hours 4 times a month….
Helen 6
Single mom: I think you may need to step back and prioritize. If you enjoy dating casually, then one night a week is great. But if you want a LTR, I don’t see how you can achieve that with anyone by only seeing them once a week. Yet, I’m pretty sure you don’t want to take away even more time from your kids or career. How about your “fairly active social life”? Include dating as a part of that, and maybe you can devote two nights a week to a prospective partner instead of doing some of the other activities.
It’s a trade-off; you need to decide what’s more important to you. Maybe for the time being, your other social activities matter more. But it’s pretty hard to achieve a LTR with the time you’re currently devoting to dating.
SS 7
I would have been one of those women in the past that many of these single dads gravitated to, ya know, because I was young and “unburdened” by those wretched kids and had all this free time to devote to dating.
But even then, it really bothered me how these every-other-weekend dads (like Sandy mentioned) would talk about how they were SOOOO tired having to spend the whole weekend (!!!) with their kid/kids. I remember saying once, “Well, imagine having them every single day of the week, like your ex does.” That usually quieted them down.
From someone on the other side of the fence, I’d say good riddance to those single dads who can’t understand the time crunch a single mom would have. I love kids and wouldn’t have had a problem dating a single dad if it actually seemed like he was, you know, a DAD and not a guy who simply visited his children. I limited myself to men with no children for this very reason… A man who is truly involved in his children’s lives will be understanding of a woman who has time constraints due to raising children.
Laura 8
I agree with Evan that there will be a single dad out there who embraces the fact that you are a busy single mom. I’ve been in the same situation for the past 7 years raising two teenagers who see their dad every other weekend. I have no family support so I am THE parent and support system for my kids. Up until recently, my weekdays included a time consuming career, carpooling to school and back, late afternoon, evening, and weekend soccer practices and games. Whew! Just writing this makes me wonder how I do it! In this 7 years, I’ve dated casually because that was my choice and my family circumstances wouldn’t allow me for more time. I met one man who was understanding, but his kids were grown and he wanted more time. We are still friends but nothing more. Also, the men I dated were not ready to blend kids or take on the responsibility of dating me and the kids. Now, with a son in college, and my daughter graduating from high school, I am dating more and am looking for a serious relationship. It’s time for me. I have no regrets that I’ve put my kids first these past 7 years.
Single mom, if you want more than a casual relationship, it will take some effort on your part and willingness to free up some time to commit to a relationship with a man. I hope that you find that special person who understands that you come as a package deal. I hope I do too!
SS 9
Meant to add… I agree though that you might have to be open to making more time for dating… I like the suggestion of at least twice per week. But I hope a single dad would be more understanding of a single mom’s time situation if she’s at least trying to make time to date.
SalsaQ 10
Can each poster on this thread disclose if they have ever been a single parent (and that includes half time parents) or had children?
Selena 11
For SalsaQ re: #10
I was a single parent for many of the years my son was growing up.
Heather 12
@SalsaQ,
Never had kids, and I’m not one bit interested in having them in the future, either. That’s why I am better off with men with grown children, or no children. I don’t know what it’s like to be a parent and I don’t want to find out. No offense to anyone here, it’s just a life choice for me that works.
Sherel 13
As a single Mom of a now 16 year old, I understand. Also age of the guy does matter. Now, my once a week date is sometimes almost 2 whole days! And that is cool for both of us. When my son was younger, the guys that really felt I was special would work with me: Come by the house for dinner..etc They wanted to see me kid or no kid. KIMM Keep it Moving Mom the right guy will come along!!!
JoAnn 14
Am I the only one who sees the either/or premise a little sad? If he really wanted to see how this could go, couldn’t he have brought up the need for more face time before notifying her that he wanted more time elsewhere? Or couldn’t she have tried to come up with some alternatives? e.g., including him in some of the social activities with others?
However, I’d be slow to add him in to family things until the likelihood that he’d be around for a while. The whole ‘dad substitute’ situation can be confusing to kids, especially if there are lingering feelings about the divorce.
As it is, looks like they need to chalk it up to having had several good dates, then moving on. Not such a bad thing.
Btw, I was a single mom for many years — yes, it did cramp my dating style, but as mentioned above, that felt like the right choice to make at that a time.
PGL 15
Some of these posts make me feel there is no hope for my schedule and dating. Especially since I have been told by the last couple of guys I have dated that my schedule makes it difficult to maintain momentum or some variation as to why they don’t take me seriously for a LTR. My job is traveling. I have as many days off as I work and when I am home I do not work so I am very available. But this schedule doesn’t seem to fit into many people’s 8-5 jobs or even guys in my same career field. There is some weeks that I can not see someone at all and other weeks I can see them every day. I am single, no kids, but not much control over what days I can hold off in any given month.
Finding someone that I feel a connection is difficult enough without being rejected because my schedule determines when we get together.
Katarina 16
I completely agree with Laura. I’ve been a single Mom for 13 years. The kids “used” to see their dad 2 nights a week and for the “full” every over weekend. Even that was too much for him. in the past 4 years he has hardly been around physically (zero financially). I support them 100% for everything. I am fortunate that I have a great job and make a great salary. I have no family here and so I am on my own with one car and volunteering and supporting 7 extra circulars/sports. I made the kids a priority and wouldn’t change a thing. I am looking to new horizons in a few months once my kids go to college.
The OP was VERY fortunate that her guy came clean with his expectations. I had a doozy of a slime bucket that wasted years of my time (that i posted about a while back).
I do not think I would be able to date a guy with kids younger than 16. I’ve raised my kids and I really don’t want to help to raise or be involved with another’s young kids if it came to a LTR/marriage.
Selena 17
@JoAnn #14
You raise a good point – was there discussion about spending more time together and how it could be accomplished? Or did he spring the dating others idea on her because he wanted to date others – using her once-a-week schedule as an excuse? Chicken/egg – egg/chicken. Hmm.
Dee 18
I was a single parent with an ex- whose work schedule did not allow for regular visitation. That situation cost me dearly on the dating circuit while the kids were growing up. And guess what? Now that they’re grown, they still have a hard time accepting the fact that I date and have other things to do besides attending to their last-minute plans.
Here’s my point: even a single mom must account for the day when the kids will be off on their own. That is, unless you want your daughters to be perpetually single and living up under you for their adulthoods. Make time for yourself and a fellow (not necessarily the one who left, but some fellow). And be prepared to compromise.
I’m dating a great guy now, but I feel so awkward having to assert myself with grown children about my right to time for myself. Don’t put off this tug-of-war. It will never go away.
JB 19
I’m 51 w/no kids and plenty of experience dating and or attempting to have relationships with single moms. Like Evan said all “single moms” aren’t the same because of the variables……ie: ages, how many, is dad around etc…..
The internet has changed everything for the single mom because they don’t have to leave home to get attention from men. I think a lot of them think they have time for a relationship if “they meet the right guy” but most of us childless men know better because we’ve spent a lot of time dating women we rarely see while their ex husband who sees the kids “every other weekend”(4 days a month) is having a grand ole time dating women left & right. Just because a guy has kids doesn’t mean he’ll enjoy dating a woman with custody of kids that’s for sure. And he has more time and options.
I never say never but at my age if the word “babysitter” is in a woman’s vocabulary I pass for the most part. Thank god a lot of women online put the ages of their kids in their profile but occasionally I have to ask (nicely in conversation) Some of them seem down right offended which is funny being that they have no problem seeing my yearly income or asking “what do you do for a living”….lol
Flower White 20
I’m single & no kids and I have to say…I do not wish to date a single fathers, but I will date *grandfathers*! Because a parent has to put their kids first. Unless they are lousy parents the kids HAVE to come first! My pet peeve is fathers who abandon their kids or never see their kids, men who let their ex wives do all the work? No can do!
Thing is, child rearing is the most serious and important job that you can have and if you mess that up, the world suffers. No date is more important than raising your child.
I try to be flexible…once I almost dated a man with a 4 year old -uh, no!! Then, I had alot in common with one online guy, he was asking me out for a date when he revealed that his adult daughters still lived at home, all THREE of them. Heck NO.
Different strokes for different folks.
Erin 21
As I single mom to a 6yr old, I have to say that this is the issue I continually find myself in. I agree my daughter comes first in everything I do, so I feel GUILTY if I have to hire a babysitter to go out on a date. But then I really limit my availability to the every other Saturday that she goes with her dad (yeah..he doesn’t even take her the whole weekend like the court order says). BUT….shouldn’t I also be showing my daughter what a good relationship looks like and make the time to develop one?
BTW–I wish there was a “dating scholarship” for Evan’s programs!!
Roxanna 22
Unfortunately, anyway you slice it, we single Moms are SOL in the dating game. That’s the bitter truth nobody really talks about when we go thru the divorce. Yes there is a desire to find a better partner after a failed marriage has ended, and yet, the options are so dramatically limited that it makes you cringe.
I am a beautiful woman with 2 elementary-school-aged kids. My profile on Match has attracted TONS of players who clearly wanted to go out with me but I could see right away that they wanted no part of serious relationship because of the kids. Some were honest and told me they don’t want to get involved during the 1st date (makes me question why they wrote to me to begin with), some tried really hard to get me in bed after a few dates and backed out when they realized they can’t. How do I know it’s not me? They all used “the kids” excuse for not wanting to “get involved”.
I’ve now been (for over a year) in a loving and caring relationship with a wonderful man who has grown-up kids and who doesn’t mind spending time with mine. Thanks to Evan… I would have completely overlooked this man if it wasn’t for Evan’s blogs. Thank you Evan!
Margo 23
I think Evan’s advice here is sound. Op, if he needs more time, and you can’t/aren’t willing to give it, then you two aren’t right for each other. What I wonder here, though, is if he sat down with the OP and had a mature conversation in which he made his request for more time with her, and then was open to discussing it with the intention of finding a resolution? Or did he use this reason as an excuse to end things because he wasn’t that into her, and wanted to let her down easy? That is the question…
Brenda 24
II had a very similar experience to Roxanna’s while online dating. I have two sons, ages 13 and 15. I understand that perhaps the men I dated and I were in different seasons of our lives and didn’t take it personally but there definitely were some disappointments. Only in retrospect can I now see that the men I dated before my fiancé were so not the right men for me, given my situation as a single mom.
It was tough to date as a single mom, especially since I have my children most of the time. I did some lunch dates and quite a bit of dating during the nights my sons were with my former husband. I did get a sitter for special events, such as concerts, and I did not introduce my now-fiance to my children until it became serious.
My fiancé has with a daughter, who is 24 and in the Navy. He is so good with my sons (and I have a special needs son at that) and is looking forward to helping me raise them. I, like Roxanna, would have overlooked him on match if it had not been for Evan’s wisdom and at times “tough love’.
There are wonderful men out there but I had to clear some space both literally and figuratively (cleaned and organized my house top to bottom and went to a therapist for 2 years to work on the mistakes I made in the past) before I met my fiancé who I am marrying in October.
Jewel 25
The OP says she only dated him for a month, which isn’t long really. I think the pace of once a week for the first month is pretty normal as you are getting to know each other. I’d be reluctant to commit myself to any man after such a short time. You hardly know each other! I would have agreed with him and kept dating others myself. Now you have shut the door, when in my opinion it would have been better to keep it open. Patience people
Birdlife 26
From one SM to another – do not fear – the divorced dad who wants to be with you and will work with your time constarints exists – I’m dating one of the type right now – we started out only seeing each other once a week for a couple of months which was fine for me and slowly ramped it up as i became more ready – its been nearly a year now and our lives are pretty happily enmeshed – it will happen!
Selena 27
@ Brenda #24
I like the phrase you used “clear some space” applied to having a relationship. Single parents (and other super busy people) have to be willing to make room for another person in their lives. Which usually translates to more than a few hours once a week. Those who can’t/aren’t willing to do that…might consider if a romantic partnership is something they really want, or need at this particular juncture in their journey.
Rosy 28
Single Mum here to a five year old, although my child’s father sees my child regularly including overnight stays.
The chap in the OP’s question thought once a week wasn’t enough – fair do’s, that’s his call -but if once a week is enough for you there will be plenty of blokes out there who are happy to date with that regularity in the early period.
(Personally, I think once a week for the first four weeks is about right; I’d feel a bit stifled if someone wanted to see me more than that in those early days, but that’s just what I feel and not everyone will feel the same way.)
I understand not wanting to introduce prospective dates to your child/ren too early. No one wants lots of different chaps coming in and out of their child/dren’s lives. However, perhaps once you’ve established some kind of exclusivity, why can’t he come over to your house after your kid/s have gone to bed for a “date”? Perhaps he can bring some takeaway food and a film to watch? Dates don’t have to be going to the cinema or to a posh restaurant or anything like that, and anyone dating a single parent will understand that the “dating journey” will go slightly differently than dating someone without children.
I think setting your own boundaries is important – these will be different for everyone of course – I know one woman who won’t let anyone who isn’t engaged to her meet her children! (Seems daft to me; bit harsh to drop a fiance on your children like that, but to each their own.) For me, it was more of a personal feeling about the potential longevity of the relationship, and I introduced my boyfriend to my child as my “friend” at first, but now, half a year down the line, they get along very well.
Awful as it might sound, I just don’t think this particular chap was ready to date a single parent. It doesn’t make him a bad person; and at the end of the day, it means you’ve weeded him out fairly early doors; congratulations! And don’t forget, some chaps actually prefer to date a woman with children – it means they don’t have that same worry that her biological clock is ticking away!
Heather 29
Roxanna, I totally empathize with your situation and can only imagine how tough that must be.
I’ve had somewhat of the reverse. I used to talk to single Dads online and the first question out of their mouths was, “Are you looking to have kids? I see you’re 35, and I just wanted you to know I have kids and don’t want more.” To which I’d reply, why thank you for assuming I want kids, but no, I do not want kids, and since that is the first question you can come up with, I’m no longer interested. Please leave me alone.
It gets a little old, having men assume that just because I’m 35, I’m just going bananas, wanting to punch out a kid because my biological clock was ticking. I found it offensive. I don’t mind if a guy is upfront that he does not want kids, but to have that thrown at me in that manner, is just off-putting.
I can only imagine what you single Moms must get. Ouch.
Vicki 30
I’m a single woman, 43 years of age, never married, no kids. I have dated men with and without kids. Single dads have no time for dating, and their lives are usually very chaotic. I prefer to not get sucked into the trainwreck drama of their lives, so I just date single, childless men. There are fewer of them in my age group, but the drama with the divorced dads is just too much for me. I don’t attract that many unmarried childless guys on dating sites, I guess because of my age, so I’m switching my strategy to playing mmorpg’s online, since most mmo players are single guys with (evidently) plenty of free time to play mmorpg’s! LOL I saw an amusing graphic about WoW versus eHarmony, and it seem WoW produces more successful marriages than eHarmony (no surprises there!). I don’t know how they stack up against other dating sites besides eHarmony, but with 12 million members, 80% of whom are men, I feel WoW is a better, target-rich environment for women. Guys, I wouldn’t recommend trying to find a girlfriend on WoW. Too many d*cks on the dance floor, so to speak. Guys should probably just stick to Match dot com.
Goldie 31
I am recently divorced, with a 19yo and a 16yo. The 19yo is off in college and the 16yo will be graduating HS in two years. My parents live nearby, so I can call on them for emergencies. Both kids visit their Dad for 24 hrs every other weekend (I offered every other weekend, for some reason he decided to just go with the 24 hours). Compared to most single moms on this thread, I’d say I have it very easy, but it is still hard. I’m in a relationship right now, and we’ve worked out a schedule where we meet for a few hours on a weeknight once a week, and for 24 hrs every weekend I go over to his place. (He has two grown children, both out of the house.) I’ve pretty much eliminated all my other social life and the 16yo still complains that I’m never home. He still hasn’t met my BF and has emphatically stated that he doesn’t want to, so going to my place when the kids are there is not an option. I don’t want to be out of my house for longer periods of time anyway, because 16-year-olds, while perfectly capable of taking care of themselves, have a way of getting into all sorts of trouble when left home alone for long. I’m pretty tired and/or worried most of the time, I have to confess. I have no idea how other single moms do it. Luckily, most men I’ve dated have, at some point in their lives, been single dads, and have dealt with teenage kids, so everyone has been totally understanding. I have to say that with one or two exceptions, I’ve never dated guys with no children. They don’t contact me, I don’t contact them, we just never encounter each other on dating sites or IRL.
To the OP, I’d advise what has already been said upthread – next time you start seeing someone, cut down on social life, or incorporate the man into it. There are only 24 hours in a day, and you’ve got to eliminate something to make room for a man in your life. Since it can’t be work or kids, social life is the only candidate.
Oh another thing, to the commenter that mentioned a man’s three grown kids living at home — that might be the side effects of the economy. I have already told my oldest son that he’s welcome to move back in with me after college until he’s comfortable enough to move out. Many of my friends’ children cannot find work after college, or are only being offered temp jobs or unpaid internships that are not enough for them to live on their own. It’s pretty horrible out there for a college graduate these days. So, I’d give the man and his grown kids at least the benefit of a doubt.
@ Heather, I wouldn’t take it personally. While people rarely ask me if I want more kids (I guess it’s pretty self-explanatory that I don’t), they do ask if I want to get married again (I don’t). I see where they’re coming from and appreciate them asking, and stating their intentions, up front. This way we can get this subject out of the way and move on.
Helen 32
Goldie 31: If you are fine with the setup between you and your ex, that’s great. But you mention how tired and worried you are. Could you not suggest to your ex that he take the kids more often? As it stands, right now from a pure time-perspective, he has 1/14th of the childcare and you have 13/14ths. That just doesn’t seem fair.
Sandy 4 had it right. In the vast majority of divorce cases, the woman winds up with the lion’s share of childcare, which means much less time to devote to a new LTR (and the possibility of never finding one while the kids are at home). Now, if she wanted that arrangement, and so did he, that’s great. But are women aware what taking on single parenthood means when it comes to seeking new relationships? The tradeoff may be larger than they anticipated.
Daphne 33
@Rosy- so your friend who only introduces her kids to her fiances- how many times has she been engaged ? I found this a bit odd. Does she keep getting engaged and then breaking it off ?
Senior Lady Vibe 34
Single Mom: “My heart is having second thoughts and wondering if I should have been open to the consideration of getting to know him better while being open to meeting others? Is that healthy?”
Yes, it’s healthy. She met a stranger online and went out with him only four times; it’s just dating. She doesn’t have much invested here. He didn’t offer dating exclusivity and there’s no reason for him “to request” to date other women. There’s no reason for her to ask him either. Perhaps both of them are too eager to discard each other because they haven’t felt THE BIG SPARK.
Since she describes him as “wonderful”, perhaps it would have been better to do as she is now having second thoughts… continue to get to know him better while being open to meeting others. She should also consider that his “request” was an excuse for his lack of interest in going forward.
For the commenter who asked: I’m a divorcee with a now grown-up son; I was a “single mother” for a long time.
Goldie 35
@ Helen, thank you. Truth be told, I hadn’t expected that, but it is probably better this way (long story.)
I did use the 13/14th as an argument with my 16yo once, when he got overly protective of his dad at my and my BF’s expense.
helene 36
As a woman in her 40s without children, I have found that dating men with children doesn’t seem to work. Even if they have less of a time commitment to their kids than single moms do, one of the things that is a real issue for me is the RIGIDITY of the time commitment that they do have. Somehow its automatically assumed that you will slot into the times that THEY have free – and this “no boyfriend every other weekend” thing gets really irritating. How about SWAPPING the weekends you have the kids some of the time? Do you ALWAYS have to see them on a thursday evening – what’s wrong with a wednesday once in a while? For a relationship to work for both people, both schedules have to be taken into consideration. How a parent does this is really up to them – I relly don’t want a longwinded explanation every time I want to see my guy about his kids piano lessons/soccer practice/etc..etc… At the end of the day, as a childless person, your partner is going to be the most important person in your life – you therefore don’t want to be constantly reminded that you are NOT the most important person to him. Not saying this to in any way disrespect those who have children, but I do think the parent/nonparent divide is a really difficult one to bridge.
Goldie 37
@ Helene, true, it does sound like a huge divide from your post. Personally I’d be very suspicious of any man who’d put me before his own children. They depend on him, I do not. He’s the only father they have, while I have my own parents. To me, it only stands to reason that he’d make them his first priority. Otherwise, the way I see it, if he can throw them under the bus for me, he’ll throw me under the bus for someone else just as easily. Not that I’ve ever met a guy like that (whew).
With that said, I’ve tried dating a few single dads who have their kids 100% of the time, and, while I have enormous respect and admiration for what they’re doing, dating these guys just does not work. You, your partner, his kids and your kids would have to be cool with the idea of a full-time blended family in order for that to work. And my children and I just aren’t there yet.
sthrnphoenix 38
As I said previously, I’m a single mom of 2 kids, a 15 year old and a 5 year old. My ex is completely out of the picture – no visitation and no child support since 2009. Though I sometimes wish I had those things, under the circumstances, I believe I came out on the good side of this. Fortunately, I have family that helps me, so I am usually able to break away one day a week for a date and know my kids are cared for. After a few weeks of dating, I tried to make extra time to spend with him, but it’s tough. Now that we’ve been together for a while, I invite him to join us for dinner once a week to spend extra time. It can be done, but you have to have the right man to do it with.
Murgull 39
I have a young son, but luckily or because we actively work on our relationship with date nights, visiting the place of our first etc. I’ve not been single.
That being said I agree with Evan on all accounts. Sometimes its just not meant to be, you each have very different wants and needs, perhaps if you had met at another time and another place then maybe…
Heather 40
@ Goldie:
Oh I see what you’re saying, and it’s not really WHAT the guy says, it’s HOW he says it. I’ve had guys say, “So I’m guessing you’re jonesing for kids, right? You’re 35.” THAT sets me off. If a guy’s going to get cranky if I make assumptions, well it works both ways.
@ Helene:
Thank you for saying what I thought. Most single Dads I met were really just drama kings in the making. Exes were flaky, one had an ex who just had gone through breast cancer, etc etc etc. I just got tired of it. I’m not trying to be a selfish brat, but come on already. I just learned that guys with kids is a deal-breaker for me, in 99 percent of cases, unless the kids are almost out of the house.
It was funny, I got “yelled at” by guys online because I’d turn them down if they had kids, and I would just say, look. The choice to have kids was yours. The choice to not have kids is mine. I do not need nor want the inherent drama that kids will bring into this. Have a nice life.
justme 41
As a parent, I think there is a fine balance between a SO and children. I know when I was married, I considered my spouse my most important relationship. We were supposed to be the team that stood by each other and supported one another or offered advice, gave perspective, and was a sounding board. There are times when your children will need to be your 1st priority, especially when they are young. I don’t want the guy who doesn’t make his kids a priority. I would understand the soccer practice and things. However, if I am getting a prestigious award and he can’t make it because of soccer practice, then there is an issue. I am a full time student, I have a full time job and I have kids. If he expected me to miss class all the time to spend time with him, I would see that as selfish. I didn’t want to use the kids as an example, but something else that is really important to me. When it’s important to the other person, it is important to you.
Happy Person 42
Helene, Goldie, Heather: Agree that the divide is great, and it’s usually the childfree person who loses if she/he chooses to date a divorced parent.
Most people when they have kids seem to develop a kind of tunnel vision where everybody 1) wants kids and 2) is as thrilled with their kid as they are. There’s also a big assumption out there (and not just in dating) that we will all bend to the demands of our coworkers, friends, and family who are caring for a child, and god forbid we should have any negative feelings about it. Some (former) friends have even suggested that I should be grateful to help them with their childcare duties because I don’t have any kids of my own. If you express any offense at this kind of condescension you just might be accused of being jealous. Too funny! Ya can’t win for losin’ with this one.
FYI, my boyfriend of many years is a public school teacher who works with more than 300 kids a week. He has no desire to deal with them after work, does not want any of his own, and is a very happy, incredibly decent, loyal, and dedicated person. I love hearing his stories about the kids each day. And I still don’t want to raise any!
Before the BF, I did date a few divorced dads and it was usually the same thing: all they could talk about was their kids, there was all kinds of drama with the ex (which I was always dragged into, most often cast as the hot new chick the ex had to hate on and as the interloper who was going to damage and pervert her precious babies), and my schedule suddenly needed sign-off from his ex, his kids, and perhaps some therapist.
Never again.
Goldie 43
@ Happy Person #42, the way I see it, it’s not “tunnel vision” as much as the fact that we have a 24×7 job that will blow up in our faces if we don’t do it right, and that no one will do for us. It’s a fun and highly rewarding job, but it’s a 24×7 commitment nonetheless. Of course this would place some limitations on our time, money, and energy. FWIW, I’ve never placed any demands on my friends or family, childfree or not, to help with my kids, and don’t know anyone who does this.
The way I see it with divorced dads is, like I said before: if he puts consistent time and effort into his kids, to me this says that he’s a loyal and responsible person. I’d be a lot more worried if he had kids, but lived as if they don’t exist. Even though that would leave more of his time and resources for me, I wouldn’t feel safe around a man like that.
I did have a guy contact me on Match once who complained about his bad experiences with “single moms who have no time for dating”. So I suggested that I may not be the right person for him then. For whatever reason, he took offense at that. Hey, I was just being helpful. Divorced parents are, in fact, under a lot of pressure, and I totally see how that may not work for those of us that aren’t parents themselves and don’t plan on being. I’m cool with that
Erin 44
Gosh…I didn’t know having a child was such a horrendous condition that those of us that are single parents are pre-judged as not worthy of dating because of our affliction. And if you think I’m over-reacting to your comments, at least TRY to read them from the perspective as someone who is a single parent.
This letter was written by a single mom looking for advice on her situation. She certainly doesn’t need to read how horrible it is to date a single parent and how those without kids are offended by such a notion.
I’m glad those of you without kids are able to find someone worthy of dating–but let’s not trash the single parents.
helene 45
I don’t think anyone is trashing single parents…. The point is the OP seemed surprised and caught off-guard by the reaction of her date to the situation, so by talking about our experiences of dating single parents it may simply help to shed some light on how it feels to be the childfree person in this sort of set up and the frustrations that arise. The bottom line is that while I can totally see how difficult it is to date if you are a single parent, it is equally difficult to DATE a single parent. It takes a special sort of couple to be able to mesh together in a situation where each person is coming at the situation from a very different perspective. Its important to be aware that single people who don’t have children often spend a great deal of time ALONE. Part of what many of us are looking for is someone to BE with – just hang out with, without having to schedule and book and arrange times like we have to do a lot of the time in order to have a social life. Just being with someone in a low key way for a whole weekend, relaxing at home, no rush , no time limit on our time together is one of the things i miss most since my marriage ended. Feeling the other person is ”fitting you in” and has half their mind on other things, always has their phone switched on (and yes, feels like some sort of hero for having carved out time for you at ALL) is not the same situation at all. I do think it simply comes down to very different aspirations as to what we are all looking for out of a budding relationship, what our needs are.
Goldie 46
@ #45: “The point is the OP seemed surprised and caught off-guard by the reaction of her date to the situation, so by talking about our experiences of dating single parents it may simply help to shed some light on how it feels to be the childfree person in this sort of set up and the frustrations that arise.”
Um, the OP’s date was not a childfree person. She said:
“I recently met a wonderful man online who similar to me has been divorced and has children”
In light of that information, I understood that, he was OK with her having kids, understanding about it, but that she really needed to figure out how to manage her time better, because one date a week is indeed not enough. If her having children was a deal-breaker to that guy, they wouldn’t have had any dates at all.
Ruby 47
The man the OP was dating said, “He typically has dated women without children as he found it was less complex,” I find this a bit of a double standard coming from a divorced father. Then she says, “I was surprised by his uncharacteristic request to date other women as he felt once a week wasn’t enough time to build momentum between us.” Breaking up with her effectively severs the momentum completely.
Personally, I don’t think there’s anything wrong or strange about seeing someone once a week in the first month of dating. I can’t help but think wonder if the guy simply didn’t want to deal with a woman with kids. He already has his own children and doesn’t want to deal with the potential for more. I think he went out with her 4 times because he was genuinely interested and liked her. Maybe he initially thought he could deal with her children, and the responsibilities and time constraints involved, but then realized that it wasn’t for him after all.
Selena 48
@#47
I find it curious they met on a dating site and he mentions 4 weeks later wanting to date other people. If you meet on a dating site, isn’t the assumption both of you already are dating other people?
Maybe it was her time constraints, dating a woman with custody and all that involves, but I think it’s possible he didn’t want to give HER a solid once a week a date for other reasons as well.
Ruby 49
Selena #48
<<I find it curious they met on a dating site and he mentions 4 weeks later wanting to date other people. If you meet on a dating site, isn’t the assumption both of you already are dating other people? >>
Good point. I also wondered if he was just making excuses and wasn’t all that interested in her as well. I do think if he was genuinely interested, he would have been more tolerant of her schedule.
Ruby 50
I do think he liked her initially, but changed his mind for whatever reason.
sarahrahrah! 51
@Dee – #18
Thank you so very much for your words of wisdom! I am a single mother of two and I take a lot of pride in being a good mother to my kids. However, I can see how I cultivate dependence on the part of my children by always being there for them and not setting aside time for myself. I appreciate your perspective.
I, too, felt a little taken aback by the attitudes of some of the childless people on this thread: essentially annoyed by the demands that kids put on a parent and a couple. Nonetheless, it was helpful to me to be reminded of the way other people feel about single parents and the implications for dating.
Nicole 52
It’s so funny how a man can give a woman an answer and she and her friends will come up with a 100 ways to decide that what he said wasn’t what he meant.
I think the guy here told her what he felt, and now the ladies are doing that rationalization thing that they do for each other that doesn’t help anything and that is why you need a man to step in and tell you to stop creating all of these alternate universes.
I think the advice to try to give someone more time is good. If she dates a childless man, once he wants to get serious he won’t want to see her LESS than this man, and I think that this guy was probably interested but since her kids aren’t small, why stick around for a situation that isn’t going to change for 12 years. If the tables were turned, she might be upset by it, and all of the ladies would be calling him a cad, a liar, a time waster, etc.
The next time she has a promising lead, she needs to show him that she will carve out time for him b/c there are too many ladies out there who will give him more than one day a week for him to drag this out for months.
Contrary to popular belief, I think men have hearts too (I’m not a man but I’m pretty sure this is true), and he could drag it out, get attached, and then struggle to leave.
But it sounds like he listened to what she told him and decided to move on.
Selena 53
When a person brings up “dating other people” very often they already have someone in mind for themselves. It’s possible the fellow in question found someone else on the site he wanted to focus on instead of Single Mom.
Heather 54
@ Erin,
I think you’re taking things a “bit” too personally here. Nobody is trashing single parents. I simply stated that it doesn’t work for me because I’ve just had negative experiences with single Dads who either could not manage their time, did not WANT to manage their time, or had exes that were too flaky. If you had read my earlier post, I even said that while it is good for parents to spend lots of time with their kids, that is fine, but it doesn’t work FOR ME. Simple as that.
What I take issue with are the single parents who give ME grief for MY choice to not have children. Or who assume I’m one of those crazy women who will attach after a second date, desperate for kids and marriage just because I’m 36.
Easy, Trigger, easy…..
Happy Person 55
Goldie@43: We all have 24/7 lives that can blow up if we don’t do it right. The way you phrase your comment makes my point. My time is no less valuable than yours because it is not spent raising a child, and my commitments are no less important to me than your childraising commitments are to you.
Goldie 56
@ Happy Person #55, if your commitments are as important as mine, then you should be totally understanding of the, as you call it, “drama” that parents have to live with, no? You would not be saying things like “my schedule suddenly needed sign-off from his ex, his kids, and perhaps some therapist”? This statement strikes me as pretty odd, you know? Like, your schedule is so rigid that it cannot be built around the man’s life, but he has to drop everything and have his schedule revolve around you? What happened to meeting each other halfway? I hope it’s okay with you if your man holds a full-time job. Heaven forbid your schedule needs sign-off from his manager.
Heather 57
@ Happy Person, you raise a good point.
Everybody’s time is valuable. People with or without kids have lives. I know many people who are very busy doing wonderful stuff, who don’t have kids. I know folks who are busy raising their kids. It’s all good, it’s a matter of figuring out what works for EACH PERSON.
I am choosing not to date a single father because I want to spend free time with a guy, not just when he doesn’t have custody of his kids. That doesn’t make me a bad person, and it doesn’t make the single dad a bad person either. It is what it is, and our lives go in certain ways because of choices we make. Single parents, mostly, chose to have kids. I chose not to have kids. Neither is better than the other. And nobody here is trashing either choice.
Happy Person 58
Heather@57: Right. Not trashing anybody’s choices. It’s about what fits and what doesn’t. If I don’t have kids or I’m single, I’ve made that choice for a reason. Mainly, that I’m doing something else that is valuable and meaningful to me. When I meet people who aren’t interested in finding out what is valuable and meaningful to me, when I meet people who assume that what they are doing is more important than what I am doing (for whatever reason), I am simply not interested in maintaining a relationship with the person. And I like to keep things simple, so really not into anyone with crazy exes or complicated family lives. I do realize that people get caught in bad situations, but there isn’t much I can do to help. Especially not inclined to if the message is “your problem is your problem and my problem is also your problem.”
In my experience the divorced dads want someone to understand and take care of them and fill in the blanks, and they’re kinda counting on the blind kindness of a new woman to provide that. They just don’t have as much to offer that woman as they did when they gave it all to the ex and it didn’t work out. And the sanctimonium of parental responsibilities doesn’t fly with me. They can all go find someone else who wants to take that on.
Not feeling like I have to justify my take on this anymore.
Joe 59
Ultimately, does it matter whether the guy sat down and discussed seeing other people with the LW? I’m sure he could see the writing on the wall regarding the amount of time he’d be able to see her.
@ helene (#36):
Maybe it’s hard enough for some divorced dads to get what time he has with the kids and he can’t swap because the ex won’t let him.
@ the LW:
If all you can spare for dating is 4 evenings a month, can you really be surprised if guys don’t find that to be enough, and don’t want to continue dating you?
@ Heather:
Don’t you just say in your profile that you don’t have kids and don’t want any (either in the checkbox options or in your prose)? I would think that would weed out most guys who might question your biological clock.
@ everyone saying the dad in the letter is a hypocrite:
We don’t have any details regarding this guy and how much effort he puts into being a father. Maybe the kids are grown. Maybe he only has them a few days a month. That would still give him plenty of time to date childless women.
Nicole (#52) makes a good point. If the LW feels 4 evenings a month is all she can give a guy, and he’s OK with that, what happens if she ever decides that she wants more time, but he’s decided his life is now fine with 4 evenings a month. Is she justified in demanding more?
Ruby 60
Joe #59
<<Maybe he only has them a few days a month. That would still give him plenty of time to date childless women.>>
Then someone else is taking care of his kids the majority of the time. And who might that be? His ex. If the LW is in the same position as the mother of his children, shouldn’t he be a bit more tolerant of this single mother (if that is actually the case)?
Heather 61
@ Joe:
You would think so, wouldn’t you? I often considered putting in my dating profile, that I didn’t want kids, but I read some blog that said you don’t need to reveal a ton, in your profile, let some of that info be discussed, once contact is established. So if I am single again, maybe I will end up just saying, “Hey, no kids and don’t want kids, FYI.” But who knows. There might be guys who say that I come across as “too aggressive.” I dunno. I’m just glad to be off that merry go round, it was wearing me out!!! I couldn’t seem to win, for losing!
Serena27 62
I think it comes back to “he’s just not that into you” and you didn’t do anything wrong. I just started dating online 6 weeks ago, but I’ve been studying Evan’s advice for over a year. I gave a guy a chance even though he only had his high school and I had my masters (and I thought that was important). I really like the arts and I was worried we wouldn’t have the same interests. Turns out he loves to draw, he’s been to way more plays than I ever have and he likes music festivals. We can talk to each other easily. He treats me with respect. He’s also over the moon about me. According to Evan’s criteria on what makes a great boyfriend, my guy is right at the top. I am going to keep a rein on the relationship since it’s only been three dates. I want to make sure he’s not putting me on a pedestal and that he sees and accepts my imperfections before I agree to be his girlfriend (yes he asked) and let myself fall head over heels for him. He also asked if he could take me out this Saturday and offered to help pay for the babysitter. I have my child half-time so I’m free a couple weeknights and every other weekend. I was so touched. It costs as much as a beautiful bouquet of flowers, but it’s so much more thoughtful. It tells me that he understands that my resources (time and money) are limited, and he’s willing to do whatever he can to make it possible for us to spend more time together. But he also asked me extensively which flowers I like, so I’m pretty sure I’m going to get those on a regular basis!
And if I do become his girlfriend, I’ll be the best darned girlfriend ever! How could I not, when he’s setting the bar so high?
Joe 63
@ Ruby (#60):
Once again, we don’t know his circumstances. If he wanted to have more custody of his kids but the court and/or his wife nixed that, why should he have much tolerance for a woman who has her kids most of the time? If anything, I would expect resentment.
Ruby 64
Joe #63
But even if he would like to spend more time with his own kids, he should appreciate that someone has to spend the lion’s share of time taking care of them.
Joe 65
Yes, I get all that, but what I’m saying is it’s possible that he resents his own wife for getting more custody, and therefore projects that same kind of attitude on other women with >50% custody. “If she wanted the most custody of her kids, it’s her problem if she doesn’t have as much free time as I do.”
Ruby 66
Joe #65
If the BF is projecting his resentments about his ex-wife onto the OP (and all of this is pure conjecture), I’d say that’s pretty unfair to Single Mom, and she’s well rid of him.
Saint Stephen 67
@Ruby (#66)
Assuming joe’s conjecture were true; i’ll say it is equally unfair that the single dad doesn’t get to spend as much time as he wants/wishes with his kids. Sometimes you gotta look at both side of the coin.
Ruby 68
St Stephen
But Single Mom isn’t responsible for the BF having custody or not, so why resent her? She isn’t the one keeping him from having greater custody.
john 69
#4
A lot of women would never accept joint custody.
john 70
#22
Kids are a good reason to NOT get involved – if you aren’t looking to be a parent again. My kids are old. Not looking to get more. If you are looking for casual, I’m your man. Looking for a father figure for your kids, I’ll pass, thank you very much.
Valerie 71
FYI- Joint custody is the norm in divorce, The actual visitation schedule is where the problem lies and child support is tied into this schedule.
KatieKazoo 72
I believe this guy wanted his cake and to eat it too. You did yourself a Big favour. Your children are your number one. You will receive more loyalty and unconditional love from them than any man. If a man after ONE month of dating starts trying to introduce an open relationship, you know you’re dealing with a womaniser. He hasn’t given you or any budding relationship a chance. Ironic he tries to turn the tables to blame you, how much time YOU have to give. A good man will wait, put in time and be around for you. How would you ever feel special when, after meeting you, he wanted to keep dating others?
I have a 19 year old and 12 year old, I have reared. I have lived alone with them since my divorce 11 years ago, as I don’t believe in living together with a partner before marriage. Your situation as a single mother, though difficult is something to be grateful for, because you will ‘smoke out’ the bad guys fairly fast. Things will progress more slowly, the man in your life will have to commit to time with you. He knows it will take longer, so his interest in you will be genuine.
When I was younger I jumped into relationships as if I didn’t matter at all. I am sorry about that!!! Now I have such value on myself, my lovely family and my time. The two men I dated, one after the other, in the past decade have been top quality. One relationship wasn’t meant to be, his health failed unfortunately. But I met another man through charity work, again older than me by over a decade. We will be getting married next year and my son and daughter get along so well with him. They were terribly upset when the first man I was engaged to passed away, they loved him so much. I have had years of being alone and not dating, grieving my divorce, then grieving my fiancee. It is not easy, but I have no regrets I put my children first all the time and took relationships very slowly. It takes a lot of dedication. You do not need to turf your children out to your ex partner, to your friends, or acquaintances. The right man will come along, hold your head up, be proud of yourself. You need to be well rested and tuned into your beautiful girls firstly. A quality man will respect you all the more for that, rather than feeling you are ‘less than’ those single girls without children.
In life the only real thing that keeps a man away from the woman he loves, is death. Run as far as you can from a man who is like a kid in a candy store and wants ALL the women at the same time. You are worth more than that type of cad.
starthrower68 73
I must agree with KatieKazoo on this. I have an incredibly strong bond with my children and it’s not easy to let someone become part of the tribe. It has only happened once in 9 years. You’re not loosing anything by letting this guy go.
Love ability 74
Hi, I was sensing that you second guessed yourself. Especially because of the way he worded it by saying he wanted to see other people. I have no understanding on why he would have said that, as that is the premise of dating that you are out there meeting people until the man brings up the exclusivity talk, or it ends. I think he was behind candid telling you that he isn’t used to dating single mums and if he needed a little more time to access is reasonable, however you know yourself and if that felt like too big a risk or made you feel too vulnerable you 100% did the right thing. If on seconds thoughts as i am reading he had wonderful qualities you are also 100% in your rightyo contact him and let him know that you regret your stance of instant protection instead of building a relationship on negotiation. Then start the fun of exploring a way to make it work for both of you, possible examples, any chance of catching up at lunch times, more phone calls, or even the simple assurance of as this develops a bit more I will carve out more time for you. Goodluck by the way I am in admiration of you, being a single mum, career and desiring a balanced dating life.
Jorge 75
Why would any man want to date a woman with kids that is only willing to give him one night a week? Why should the man sacrifice what is important to him? Admit it, you didn’t make him a priority, he sensed that and renegotiated the terms and now you have remorse. I’m really tired of women that insist that I make allowances for their previous reproductive decisions. Your lack of availability, whatever the reason, is a significant detriment in the whole boy-girl marketplace. If you are not willing to somehow make up for that, then you will have this same result time after time.