How Do I Avoid Clingy and Desperate Men?
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This may not seem like a problem to some women, but for me it is. When I am dating, I like to really take my time and get to know someone before I put any “name” on what we’re doing. It’s just having fun with someone, getting to know him, and see where things go. (I believe it’s called dating.)
There were a few men in the past several months that I liked. They were nice and I could see an eventual relationship coming of our dating. Here is the problem I’ve had…we go out once (maybe twice) and have a good time. There’s some kissing involved (but no sex). We make plans to go out again. Over the next several days he calls me constantly, starts talking about wanting a commitment from me, about our future together, and basically freaks me out from wanting to even go out with him again. (And yes, this has happened at least three times recently.) I understand liking me and wanting to spend time with me, and hoping that things will go further. What I don’t understand is why they get so obsessive.
I’m a divorced mother with two young children, but I am not looking for someone to “rescue” me. I do want to be in a relationship, with the right person, and I do want to be married again. However, I am not going to jump into something so quickly that I am blindsided. Are these men just so desperate that they don’t understand the fundamentals of dating? Any way I can avoid this in the future? It seems to be happening to me a lot recently.
Leah
Dear Leah,
Yeah, it’s a drag when a guy says he really likes you and makes a supreme effort to see you. I’m sure all the women who are waiting by the phone for their dates to call are feeling particularly bad for you.
I kid, Leah, because it’s about as ironic as any dating situation can be. We want people to be real, authentic, and emotionally available, yet we cringe and we flee when they are.
I wouldn’t say this is the height of hypocrisy, because I don’t know how you get when you really like a guy. Maybe you never get excited and let down your guard. But imagine you did. It would be a shame if a man distanced himself from you precisely BECAUSE you said you liked him.
What it really comes down to, Leah, is timing. You keep finding guys who are ready to take the plunge, you dazzle them on a date or two, and you listen to them start gabbing about rings and honeymoons. That has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them. They want to be married soon. You do not. That’s perfectly fair. But imagine the shoe was on the other foot.
Let’s say that you were 39, single, and childless. You meet a great guy. It wouldn’t be too unreasonable for you to get excited about him being the future father of your children. Of course, if he’s already a father of two, and also recently divorced, he might not be ready to dive back into a committed relationship. That’s nobody’s fault. That’s simply two good people who may be compatible, but are not a good fit at the time.
I’m particularly glad you wrote this email because it’s useful to hear from a woman who just not that into HIM. It goes to show that, as abhorrent as we find the concept of “game-playing”, sometimes a little game playing is exactly what is necessary to keep the fire burning.
When someone makes himself too accessible, too willing to jump into a relationship, we question him. We wonder how anyone could like us this much this soon. We immediately devalue those people. But when we’re crazy about someone and show it, we want that person to reciprocate. Can’t we just be REAL with each other? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
Apparently, it’s not….
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54 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Bev 1
I also had two men in the last year who were deperately trying to get me to commit sooner than seemed normal. They were controlling and basically losers in past relationships and life in general. At first flattered and then terrified, I ran away. My assessment was that they wanted a healthy normal person to validate their craziness. I knew tho that I would soon end up crazy too if I stayed. Had to head for more peaceful waters.
Stacey 2
Leah, I am kind of in the same situation now. I am a divorced mother who is dating. I have met a really great man. We have been on two dates and we speak daily. We IMed each other for hours in the evenings, the week before we went on our first date. The issue is I have only known him for two weeks and I’m not ready to define our relationship. I am not planning on going out with anyone else right now, but I’m not mentally ready for that committment to someone either (not this fast). I have children to consider. I have my future to consider. It might end up being with this wonderful man, but I need time before I define…
The other night I fell asleep early and received a text in the morning from this man(in a joking mannner) asking what happened to me last night, and if I had been out on a hot date or if I was up late on messenger(because he had called to say good night) and I didn’t answer). I didn’t like even responding to that that text message (assuring him I had fallen asleep), I guess because I felt like I was already having to prove myself…. when I technically don’t owe him that answer…. It’s seems like it’s all in the timing. You will know when it’s right for you.
John 3
That’s a great answer Evan. I’ve always wondered what differences of opinons both men & women have on the definitions of these dating buzzwords like “needy” “clingy”, “desperate” and even “healthy”. The way I see it, it’s every one persons personal opinon as too what is “needy”, “clingy” etc. Why is it when a couple hits it off and
immediately starts seeing each other 4 times a week and talking twice every day and they’re both loving it neither is considered “needy,clingy, or desperate” ? But if one of the two doesn’t
agree with the pace or changes up the pace they cry “needy & clingy” if the other doesn’t follow !!
Or if it was someone they were more “into” they wouldn’t even think of complaining. Just like when I hear of people trotting out “I love you’s” at 4-6 weeks. I think, huh ???
On another note why isn’t wanting to be married considered “needy” ?
Why is it healthy to want to be with someone every day for the rest of your life ?? Sounds clingy to me.
As for you single moms. You barely have time to date 1 guy and try and have a relationship let alone more than 1. You have 1 night a week to see someone then complain when the guy who’d like to just see you goes out with other women because YOU don’t want to be exclusive !
You can’t have it both ways.
Hely 4
Hahahah great answer Evan! of course you’re the expert here!
And John i’d love to get to know u .. how old are u by the way???
Leah 5
Yes, it is all in the timing. I’ve also come to the conclusion that these men were not the right men for me, or I would have been “that” into them too. I figure it’s better to end things then lead them on when I know it’s not going to last.
This last man in particular was what made me write. I had decided I didn’t want to see him again, so instead of being rude & ignore all his calls & emails, I responded to one of his emails & said that I didn’t want to see him again. I also gave him a reason. I thought I was being polite. He obviously did not, because he sent me a scathing email telling me I was immature, and a lot more. This response from him did nothing but confirm my thoughts on him, and I was glad I had decided not to see him again.
Stacey–I too hadn’t planned on seeing anyone else, but I wasn’t ready to define things either. He kept pushing the issue though, which made me see a personality trait in him that I really didn’t like.
John–I never said to anyone that I wanted to be exclusive. Yes, I am a single mother with little time to date, and I understand that. When he asked me if he should date anyone else & I said that wasn’t for me to say (after one date), he got upset with me.
John 6
Leah & Stacy I didn’t mean to single you guys out as far as defining or asking for exclusivity etc…while being single moms. I just meant that in my dating experience (i’m 40ish btw Hely) of dating single moms I almost feel guilty for wanting to see them more than once a week because I know they don’t have the time. Thus causing me to ask myself “am I being too needy here because I want to spend time with this woman”?
What do the single moms expect men to do the other six nights when they’re unavailable and don’t want to be exclusive ?
Why are couples that have known each other for a week or 2 talking to each other EVERY day on the phone while at the same time emailing,texting anyway ? Obviously noone should be asking anyone anything about defining what “this” is after 1 or 2 dates . The point I was trying to make is it’s all everyones OWN opinion as to what’s too needy,clingy,desperate etc… and it’s usually ONE person in the “couple” that makes it and you know which one that is ?? The one that likes the other the least. Go figure.
Sure timing has something to do with it but so does a persons options, what they might be looking for or realistically have time for and be able to offer not to mention where they are emotional health wise.Which of course is an OPINION…LOL
Lisa 7
I think there’s a BIG difference in showing that you “are into” someone vs. pushing for a commitment after only 2-3 dates. I don’t see anything wrong with calling often to say “Hi, how’s your day going?” “Would you like to get together on Saturday?” That’s not necessarily clingy or desperate. But to start planning a future with someone you just met and don’t even really know yet? That IS desperate, and in a way, scary. I don’t think Evan’s blog really addressed that.
I understand that people who use dating sites are in the main hoping to find someone to have a future with. But surely not everyone equates a couple of dates as an instant relationship, do they? I haven’t tried dating sites yet, is there an expectation in this venue to move exceptionally fast? I wouldn’t consider myself in a relationship until I had spent an appreciable amount of time with someone (in person) for at least a month, minimum. Anything less seems like one of those quickie, short-lived junior high school “relationships”. Is this kind of thinking now considered old-fashioned? Ridiculously slow?
Truly I’m curious. I don’t want to join one of these sites if I were expected to be someone’s intended after only a handful of dates. Please comment.
Leah 8
I totally agree with Lisa, and this is basically what I was getting at. This is the reason I didn’t want to see these particular men again–I saw what they were doing as a personality trait of being obsessive, which in my opinion, would most likely turn into being posessive. Telling someone you are going to *miss* them after a first date is totally different than saying you had a nice time and would like to see them again. How can you miss someone when you barely know them?
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lyric 10
I think it’s because these guys Leah dated aren’t exactly what she’s looking for..not her “type” and now that the guys are getting to “like” her and wants to get closer, she now thinks their clingy…lol
Actually I’d react the same way but if I’m so into the guy and he tells me that he misses me already even on our first date, I would be like so high up the heavens..lol
kk 11
Hmmm … interesting… Im a woman, 39, single and childless, and ONLY NOW do I really feel relaxed enough in dating to really enjoy it moment to moment and not be a needy freakish lady myself- basically, I have just begun liking mysef enough to feel healthy and nonobsessive and not needy. Yes I d like to be with someone but no, I’m not desperate and I don’t feel like I need a man to complete me in a needy way.
So here is a funny story that is apropos – I just stopped seeing a guy tonight who was too needy/ manipulative for me. On our first date he told me he had gone to a PSYCHIC who had told him he would meet me and we’d be married within a year- and he had just gotten out of a messy relationship with no real closure… On our second date, he said ” I wish you trusted me enough to let me come up to your place” – when I had a morning flight the next morning and I had to get up at 4 AM! Needless to say he didnt come up ( It was a total turnoff -creepy!) He didn’t like ” dating slowly” ( I.e. not immediate sex and reassurance and constant contact ) because it was ” torture” to ” play games”… Lets see, we had a third date when I bought movie tickets but he messed up his schedule and couldn’t come, then he got passive aggressively sulky when I used the ( nonrefundable ) tickets with a pal… So tonight, 60 seconds after we had the ‘let’s be friends’ talk he said ” Now we’re friends, I want to give you some feedback on your dating approach” to which I said ” No thanks I’m too vulnerable to hear that right now! ” ( dodging the passive agressive bullet!…) Then he told me I was the ” second woman who had dissed him that week “- some other woman he had slept with had also given him the air. I STILL didn’t rise to the bait ( I hadn’t known he was seeing anyone, obviously he was trying to get me going) but whoah ! All that anger and manipulation and acting out and unresolved feeling just sealed for me that he wasn’t someone who it was wise to date.I love my life, I love myself, I love men in general and people too ( I know, Im a dork!) and I feel like I have so much more to offer from sayng NO THANKS to the needy guys… so trust your gut, what underlies the neediness is anger, forget it.
I guess the difference between unhealthy neediness and falling in love is subjective, one man’s meat is another poison, but IMHOP you should not have to be answering to someone too soon, or feel guilty for not assuaging some dudes’s random insecurities,he should deal with them on his own in early dating, othwerwise its a HUGE RED FLAG for me. I feel like he is then putting emotional stuff on me he hasn’t dealt with himself- and underneath that is the rage, yikes.
If it feel like some big obligation and not fun after just 3- 4 dates, then what is the point, aren’t we supposed to enjoy getting to know each other? Dont get me wrong I love, adore, pamper and dote upon the men I love, but If I start getting that clammy sweaty icky needy ” be my mommy” vibe too early on I run for the hills! Even if I really LIKED a guy and he told me he missed me after one date – it would creep me out and make me like him MUCH LESS!
Ryan H 12
The truth is ladies these types of men are insecure and lonely individuals who just want sex and a very high chance a lot of them will do a disappearing act after. The reason you went on these first couple dates is the high probability that you told them you had kids and they accepted that fact AND Also the obvious reason you were interested in them in the first place. But what you might not know is what their motives are. Are they genuine in what they say? Do they ask probing questions to get to really know you or are they just playing mind tricks to get you in bed. Women like to be worked for to feel that exclusiveness but the truth these men don’t have enough experience to understand that. They obviously are not good in the dating arena or understanding women. It’s like rewarding a dog a treat for doing nothing but bark.
Jessica 13
I agreed with Evan’s post and also, what many of you had to say. I also think many or all of these things apply to women who come off as to needy or clingy as well. Timing and how you feel about the other person (not how you think you SHOULD feel) make a huge difference in how you perceive them and their actions. But I also think you can look at their actions in terms of kind and degree. One is what types of behaviors just plain don’t work for you – kind. The other is what behaviors to what degree don’t work for you, creep you out or make you feel pressured or what-have-you. Often, both of these come into play.
When a person pursues you pretty relentlessly and doesn’t seem to be taking into account what you want or how you feel, then you have to wonder if they came into it with a very strong personal (and maybe unintentional, but still real) agenda or goal. And also, likely some major insecurities.
I think I have been needy to some degree and I have certainly dated a couple of men who were needy to the point that it canceled out their actually truly being “nice.” This would be the guy who is “too nice”. Or the woman.
There is an awesome article I read after dating a guy like this for only about a week – about Nice Guys often being losers. Yes, sounds very harsh, but the article made some really well-thought-out points that clarified a great deal for me – both about nice guys and about being careful not to “be too nice” myself in an effort to connect or validate myself. Here is the link if anyone wants to take a look – actually isn’t a rant despite what the url says.
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml.
This guy immediately acted like we were a couple. Actually asked me how many guys had gone out with on Match … and asked me to not date anyone else before the first of only two dates. Also asked if I already had a hot date when I turned him down for Friday night – Truth was, it was too soon for me. He seemed wonderful – always deferring to me, not even picking his own conversation topics. Though I couldn’t stand that. Who wants to not have a real give and take. And all that.
What this article said is that “Nice guys” don’t have an opinion. Or they don’t express it. They always defer to you, but then you have to take all the responsibility if you made “the wrong choice” or picked something less than satisfactory. They also often come on too strong due to an insecurity and a need for you to think they are the cat’s meow, not because they are truly into you that lightning fast. How the hell can they be that into you if they don’t know you yet? This holds true for women like that as well.
He decided he was going to wash my car after one date. He also used 7 exclamation points in one email – without an “I Love You!”, “Damn!”, “Ouch!”, “Curses, foiled again!” or a “Bif, Bam, Boom!” in site. I.e, nothing that was actually an exclamation that required such punctuation. I initially thought this meant he was either overly dramatic or immature. It turned out to be both.
But I felt guilty about not giving him two chances despite red flags all over the place that he wasn’t right for me. These I expressed to friends and family from the get-go and they too thought I was too picky : ) – AT FIRST ; ) They thought my concern over the exclamation points was nuts. And people thought I should be less concerned since he wasn’t being an out and out jerk. Though he did criticize really little stuff like the crust on our pizza and the salt not being on the actual soft pretzel at the movies. And told me repeatedly how crappy and unsafe my aptmt. was – Yet, I pay for it myself whereas he had no job and had his rent at 36 paid for someone else. He wasn’t concerned about my safety – he wanted to make where he lived look better in comparison.
The guy mentioned in this letter may have very genuine intentions – it sounds like he probably does or he has a lot of unresolved personal issues that cause him to do a full court press as soon as he meets a potential mate. And not see the warning signs on her end.
This is what I believe happened in my situation and I just bit the bullet and wrote him an email and made it sound like he was just great the way he is and made it sound like it was my personal issues holding me back. I didn’t give real reasons, but if I did make any mention – they didn’t have to do with him. And they weren’t anything he could really refute. I didn’t care for the email I got back making it sound like I was a few fibers short of a basket-case, but hey – it didn’t diminish his self worth, it didn’t lead him on, and it got me out of a situation that was driving me batshit in the nicest way.
The old me would have prolonged it because he was a “nice guy”. He was too nice. Like me baking cookies from scratch for a guy on a first date too nice : ) Part of it is the how someone is nice to you, but an even BIGGER part to me is the WHY. And the timing. If you find yourself having to frequently justify why you aren’t comfortable with someone’s actions, then something is off.
How you feel is how you feel and there are usually ways to be fair to the other person but still extricate yourself if it isn’t working for you. Unless he or she is a true stalker – then must seriously proceed with caution and assume you can’t rationalize how they must be thinking.
I do agree with Evan about the rational conversation – rather than just dropping the guy. But think you have to truly evaluate the situation, the person, and how likely he is to hear what you have to say and truly considerate it versus what he has in his head and heart already. Same goes for women who get too close or too involved too fast. TOO meaning for the other person in the equation. When is too much too much? When it is too much for you.
Jessica 14
Re: my previous post…
The aforementioned blind date was probably also a nice guy in the good sense of the word, but was “Too nice” for me in ways that were very specific. Ways that I could articulate in both thoughts and feelings that did not make me as happy to speak with him or be in his presence as he said he felt about me. But he also told me he’d rather be with someone and not be that happy than to be alone. So I do think he had set a course for action that had more to do with what he was determined to have – with someone – than with me. It was right to let him go – for him as much as for me. Just wanted to clarify that I was not meaning to use a public forum/dating advice site to bitch about him or try to make him look bad. I learned from this and hope someone else might too.
Mattie 15
Interesting posts from everybody – and this is as much a problem to women as it is to men, it seems.
As Jessica correctly intimates, the basis of all this is wishful thinking (the power of which should never be under-estimated: one thing old Sigmund got right!). The giveaway in her story is her would-be partner’s confession that he fears being alone. Such a fear leads to desperation, which in turn results in clingy behaviour, which as many others in this string conclude, means ‘too much, too soon.’
And Jessica’s right: he probably is a very nice man – as kind and considerate as she herself sounds, as her manner of divesting herself of him was certainly impeccable in these terms. But she is equally correct in listening to her gut reactions, which were warning her off him. These were telling her that this particular man wasn’t interested in Jessica; just the idea of her that his longing for love had formulated. And, sooner or later, disillusion would set in as he realised the real woman wouldn’t fit the narrow blissed-out confines of his mental construct … and then what?
Hm. Food for thought: been there, done that – and had it all done to me, to boot! Thank you, Evan and co.
Mattiex
Sarah 16
And traditionally aren’t women suppose to be the clingy ones? I’ve never been in a serious relationship (it’s ok though, I’m only 17) because every time a guys liked me he gets obsessive. They text you 24/7, want to know what you’re doing every minute and want to go out all the time. It’s worse if you’re a fierce free spirit like me, an ENFP and a Type 7 Enthusiast. We have a perhaps irrational fear of being tied down. If you go out with this clingy person, they’ll think you like them back as much as you like them and I see it as getting stuck in a web.
Why are men so clingy these days? My friend can’t do anything without her boyfriend because he’s clingy and obsessive and jealous. People my age in relationships spend every minute with their boyfriends, sometimes living with them like my friend. And then like my other friend, whose relationship with her boyfriend ended because they got sick of eachother. Well go figure. If people gave eachother lots of space and separate time they wouldn’t get sick of eachother and be much happier. It comes down to the fact that people don’t trust eachother. They worry that their spouse is cheating on them or something if they aren’t under their constant watchful eye. But without trust there’s no love so these relationships are so fake.
Janice 17
Sarah:
At 17, you have more insight than most of us. You are spot-on about trust issues. Good luck to you as you continue to grow from a young lady to a wise and lovely lady!
starthrower68 18
Hmmmm, makes one wonder if all this fear of being seen as needy and clingly will lead to people never being able to be themselves and being honest about their feelings. A friend from work has set me up with her brother; she’s already sent up an initial red flag by telling me he can’t stand to be without a woman. Meanwhile, there was someone special to me; I was honest that I felt a connection, and that I had hoped something would happen but I was also honest that I was working on a degree, raising kids, etc. Evidently, even that was too much. We can’t win for losing, can we?
AjC 19
Leah asks, “How can you miss someone when you barely know them?”
Try spending a few months… even years ALONE. Once you know what hopelessness feels like, what constant rejection feels like, how it feels to truely be alone in this world… once you know what it feels like to be scared of dying alone and unloved… then you’ll know how it’s possible to miss someone who gave you a glimpse of what being loved, wanted, and needed is like.
Michael 20
Whom has this happened to?
Chalk 21
I was just searching for clingy me and came across this article. It was totally what I was looking for. I’m 18 and I’ve never been in a relationship before. I’ve met this guy through a friend about 2 months ago. We’ve hung out with a group of friends and text quite often. After a while, he asked me out on a date. Impressed, I agreed and we’ve been going out since. It’s been about a month. On top of that, we text and talk on the phone a lot. However, he likes to talk about having a future together, growing old together, not having kids (coz I don’t want any) and going on a trip together. At first I thought it was just me being afraid of commitment. Afterwards, being introspective, I realized that I’m just not ready. I’m not ready for all the commitment and activities that he is proposing (like wanting to come over in the morning to wake me up). He’s had 4 past relationships and I’ve had none. But even so, I think that knowing someone for less than 2 months does not warrant such behavior. The extent of his ‘love’ that he feels for me is scary. I don’t know if it’s just me. But I have to end it soon.
Rob StGeorge 22
Its a common discussion… from both sides, it ends up that men are not attracted to needy women, and women are the same when it comes to needy men. From my experience when two people are into each other it doesn’t seem to matter. So as others have alluded to often seems to stem from one person not being as into the other.. however in saying this obviously if someone exhibits too much needy behaviour at an early stage of the dating game they are probably going to put off whoever they are obsessing about. So the secret I guess is to take it easy.. give a little sometimes and wait to see what you get back. Don’t keep texting or calling someone if you are not getting anything in reply, patience folks and understanding that everyone is different, some have busier lives than others and by playing it cool.. you may be surprised at the success you can have.
Michael 23
Is not neediness a trait of which can be taken advantage?
Joanne 24
The Operative word is timing here. I’ve just met a man, we went out on 1 date. I am single, no children and 45. He is over 50, handsome. While I feel he is attractive, that is just one element of falling in love. This kind soul has called me everyday since I met him and while he I am definately flattered and interested, moving too quickly in a relationship can be destructive. He tells me he misses me all the time and talks about perhaps relocating. This to me is fantasy, not reality. True there may be such a thing as love at first site, but two people need to feel it. I think the best relationships begin one step at a time. First attraction, a connection, then time learning about one another. When a person rushes into anything it can be disasterous. I have been attracted fast to someone, but in every instance it waynes and as I’ve matured I realize that first impressions are not what it’s about, you can be really off and a man or woman who professes love or becomes so attached so quickly eventually resents their partner because they weren’t really being honest with themselves and they’re making too much out of something that isn’t reality. True love is built on time, trust is earned and developed thru time. You need to guard your heart and give love a chance to grow, not dive in head first without looking to see if there’s water in the pool. I believe intuition is there for a reason, we are complex, yet incredibly fantastic when it comes to our reasoning capabilities. Don’t ignore that small voice, just take one step at a time, gather the info and make a decision. I am giving my guy a chance, but I have told him slow down, you’re moving way too fast and you need to genuinely discover if you truly like me as a person, you don’t know me nor do I know you and you need to allow the relationship to grow. Love is a process. Too many people rush into it, then rush out of it. When you tell someone you love them or you miss them after one or too dates, you’re lying, because the next date you could end up discovering something that makes you run for the hills. You do not know them well enough to make an honest assessment. You are much better saying, I had a great first date or dates with you, I really enjoy it and am looking foward to continuing to get to know you. It is too soon to move close to each other, too soon to miss you all the time, too soon to plan a future together, etc. 6 months, a year of continually dating and being with each other gives you enough info to decide if this person is truly legitamately a keeper, someone you’ve experienced enough situations and experiences with to determine realistically that you are in fact feel love for and vice a versa of course.
Joanne 25
P.S. Regardless of wether I’m right or wrong, I am very grateful I have met this man, because I have been single for a very long time and am not used to being fussed over. So in a sense I may be really cautious and he may be really intense in his feelings… only time will tell, but I thing no matter what GOD has a plan and sometimes it’s too help us get unstuck or get a little more thick skinned, but whatever it is, it is never bad to feel like someone cares or loves you too much that is a gift, one I am grateful for nevertheless, and that is why I am giving it a chance to either blossom or wayne, but either way we were meant to meet and experience each other for a reason, to live, to grow, to understand more….whatever it may be, we meet for a reason, to learn.
GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU AND GOD BLESS TOO!!!!
CCC 26
I’m above 30 years old. I’m single and childless. I have been in relationship twice in my life. Of course, look back with my first ex, he was soo clingy and needy. And so was I.. I was desperate to have boyfriend that I choose to overlooked. He constantly wouldn’t leave my side. People kept saying we’re perfect couple. He constantly send me message and if I was too busy to respond, he asked me if I had a “hot date”. Which it wasn’t true. After few dates, he kept asking me if I miss him. So many times that I find it annoying.
Boy! Eventually, he got worst. He wouldn’t let me go out with my friends but I sneak out and left. I never felt soo much better. So I broke up with him. He was stalking me at first but I wasn’t afraid. I didn’t hestatite to call the police and have resistion(sp) order.
After that, had relationship with 2nd guy, he wasn’t needy nor desperate. He turn out that he has narcissistic personality disorder (know as Dr. Jekyell and Mr. Hyde). After a while, he became desperate and needy. After, I realize he was just acting. He’s really did good job!
But even after that, It took me a while to heal. Once I do, I was ready to go out to try date and hope to find a good man but… Lately, I kept recieving needy and clingy guy, too. Like, I haven’t met a guy in person but talk online thru online date, he automatic said “I love you”. I’m like… how can you love me when you haven’t met me.
Other one, said that I’ll buy a house and I want you to move in with me. I’m like, “no, we live seperate and out for a date for a while to get to know each other and if it works out then we can live together.” He said, “No, I can’t, I can’t live without you.” I’m like, we haven’t met either.
So, I blocked him out.
Another guy, I went out with seems like a nice guy. He kept asking me, “do you miss me?” almost everyday. And kept saying “talk to me” “talk to me”… I’m like… BYE!
It is soo annoying. Now, I’m not needy nor clingy. I just want to go out and have fun and enjoy life. I don’t want “do you miss me? or Can’t live without you, or, I love you” All I am asking is relax and enjoy life. Is that too much to ask for? If it lead somewhere down the road, then great. If not, that’s fine, too.
Patricia 27
I also am suspicious and turned off when a guy gets enthused too quickly. Not because its less challenge or whatever the game is supposed to be. I believe that when I am first getting to know someone and they fall ‘head over heels’, they have not actually fallen for me, they have built up some illusion in their heads that they believe me to be, and then fallen in love with this fantasy. They do not know or understand me with any depth and so project all their dreams and desires onto the blank slate.
Inevitably as we spend more time together, it will dawn that I am not the ‘perfect woman’ they expected, and then I cop the dissapointment for not living up to the impossible ideals – or told ‘you’re not the same as when we first met’(!). The whole ‘pedestal’ thing.
So, I’m with the OP on this one. Have seen it happen so many times that now I totally turn off when I guy tells me he’s “falling for me” within a few weeks of meeting. I’d rather wait for a guy who wants to get to know ME before falling in love, not one who already loves his dream girl and is going to try to squeeze me into her spot.
Diana 28
For the men that Leah is meeting to talk about how they want a commitment with her and a future together after only two dates, something is wrong with this picture. Whether it’s an obsession, a ploy to move to home plate, desperation, controlling, etc., their behavior is inappropriate. I completely understand her feelings.
It’s fine if they’re making a confident, consistent, normal effort to go out with her again, letting her know that they find her fun, attractive, or whatever, but as with Patricia’s post [#27], I think they’re after the fantasy at this very early stage.
The men are coming on too strong and her feelings may have nothing to do with timing. If she were to do the same thing, the men would likely think similarly and back way up [perhaps after having some fun].
sasa 29
I stumbled on this while looking for an article to send my desperate male friend, he actually admits he hates being single and alone… poor loser. He’s even turning me off being friends.
But seriously, in my experience, any guy who wants things to move quickly is bad news. A guy who says he loves me after two weeks, is lying. There is no “genuine” anything, after just a few dates, MR EVAN. You’re damn wrong if you think otherwise. It takes time for genuine feelings to develop. Any man who starts to talk marriage too soon, is obviously just hung up on the idea – he is desperate. Would you marry a desperate woman? No. Why not? Because she is marrying out of desperation, not from genuine feelings of love.. get it?
Coincidentally, I simply don’t date, any more. Do I feel scared? Nope. I believe I’ll meet someone purely by chance one day, and we’ll strike up a friendship… without the ignonimity of dating and all its obligations and expectations, we’ll be able to develop a real relationship. And if it doesn’t happen? After all, no one says it will happen, right? Well, no one says it won’t happen, either. It’s up to us what we choose to believe. I, for one, am choosing to make things happen by believing in them.
Karl R 30
sasa said: (#29)
“I simply don’t date, any more. [...] I believe I’ll meet someone purely by chance one day, and we’ll strike up a friendship [...] we’ll be able to develop a real relationship.”
Do you use that strategy for job hunting too?
Instead of sending out resumes, filling out applications and going to interviews, you can network until you meet someone who offers you a job. I know dozens of people who got their jobs that way. But if you rely on that as your sole method of job hunting, you may spend a long time between jobs.
In the past, I’ve done as you’re doing now: not dating and having friendships evolve into relationships. In 11 years I had 2 relationships. Then I switched to actively dating. That resulted in 3 relationships in 4 years, including my current relationship which is likely to last until death do us part.
Instead of spending years between relationships where nothing romantic occurred, I only spent months between relationships … months filled with dates of other potential girlfriends.
Feel free to limit yourself to less efficient strategies.
sasa said: (#29)
“my desperate male friend, he actually admits he hates being single and alone… poor loser.”
I’ve confided my feelings to friends numerous times, and I’ve never had one call me a “loser,” or show me any other kind of disrespect.
Your male friend will be more successful at dating if he’s happy being single. I generally recommend it as a first step in the dating process.
And as a first step toward being happily single, I’d recommend that he get rid of any toxic, disrespectful ”friends.”
sasa said: (#29)
“A guy who says he loves me after two weeks, is lying. There is no ‘genuine’ anything, after just a few dates, MR EVAN. You’re damn wrong if you think otherwise.”
Who said anything about “love” at two weeks? (Besides you.) My first few dates with my current girlfriend were on consecutive days, but neither of us mentioned the word “love” until we were in love (around the three month mark, if I recall correctly).
sasa said: (#29)
“It’s up to us what we choose to believe. I, for one, am choosing to make things happen by believing in them.”
Does that strategy work for housework too? Instead of vaccuuming and dusting, you just sit there and believe that the house will become clean?
Things happen because of our actions (or the actions of others). Action/reaction; cause and effect. The only things that are changed by our beliefs are our perspective and attitude.
sasa said: (#29)
“without the ignonimity of dating and all its obligations and expectations”
This is a perfect illustration of what I was just saying. The only thing that makes dating ignominious is your belief that it is.
And all of the obligations and expectations also arise from your beliefs (and your date’s beliefs).
So far, it sounds like your beliefs have quite the track record of sabotaging your relationships. Now you’re intending to rely on them exclusively to make a relationship happen. Wow! Talk about expectations.
Cat 31
sasa said: (#29) “my desperate male friend, he actually admits he hates being single and alone… poor loser.”
There’s nothing wrong with someone hating “being single and alone!” Why do you think all of these online dating sites exist? Why do you think blogs like this exist?It’s not because everyone just loves being alone… And what’s wrong with your friend being honest to you, his friend, about his desire to be in a relationship? Isn’t that what friends are for? Why does his admission that he’s lonely spark such contempt in you?
Now, if someone only complains and never does anything about it, that would be a problem and perhaps that’s why you’re so annoyed at your friend, and why you came here looking for some articles to help him.
But have a little compassion for him. If dating were easy, we wouldn’t be here on this blog!
Nirvana 32
For guys
I’m a guy late 20s… Most of my friends think i have had more of my fair share of dating and relationships, but i guess i enjoy the ‘dating’ …
However a guy who is overly eager, calls every day, txt every day or wants the girl too much … It just doesn’t work …ask me how i know.
Just hint you enjoy her company and that’s it, let her deal with. Unfortunately, sometimes it becomes a power struggle of who’s gonna cave in but that’s no longer fun and you should just stop seeing the person.
If someone is not willing to put in as much as you do, dont waste your time.
Don’t beg, don’t plead, don’t desire her, just tease and subtly hint you like her …it sucks but that’s what works.
Veronicqua 33
Evan, I have to say that I agree with the woman who wrote to you. Telling someone you love them and want to marry them, calling/texting them a lot, and wanting to be with them all the time is understandable and appropriate IF YOU”VE BEEN SEEING EACH OTHER FOR A LONG TIME. But doing these things after you’ve only gone on one or two dates, or after you’ve only just met, is just too extreme, too demanding, and way too much for a lot of people to deal with. It scares them away, whether they’re male or female.
Many people prefer to get to know someone before they have a serious relationship with them. It’s human nature.
Also, I can understand wanting someone to call you, but do people still literally wait by the phone? What a drag. Don’t they have better things to do? Don’t they have a life? Talk about neediness and being too desperate.
M 34
Hmmm….I’ve recently experienced the same thing. Here’s the problem: when a guy is too into you too soon – he’s really not into you. He doesn’t even know you yet – how can he be into you? The only thing that he’s into is the idea of being with someone – anyone. Guys, we don’t want to be the object. Moving too fast only shows us that you are after one thing – it shows us that the only qualifying factor you need is that we are female. So, take your time, get to know us. Show us that we are worth that and show us that you want us for the people that we are. Show us that you can be a friend as well as a lover.
hash 35
We men are not perfect, if a man bothers you please be straight with him and tell him. Us men suffocate through the time when a woman tries to impose “hidden signs” to tell us something.My point is don’t just shut me off if they go too aggressive for your liking, just inform him and give him a chance to change.
Cindy 36
Evan, you must be kidding. A guy who wants to talk marriage to a woman after one or two dates? If a woman did that and then emailed you, you would caution her about being too needy and tell her she has issues with chasing men away with her desperation. But if a woman is independent and is looking for someone who has a healthy sense of boundaries and self-confidence, you seem to accuse her of being a commitment-phobic egotist? Men can be desperate and inappropriately clingy. There is a huge difference between that and being emotionally available. It is sickening that a man can be a needy bag of emotional baggage and insecurity and the woman who finds herself saddled with him should consider herself “lucky” but a man who finds himself saddled with a woman who is a needy mess is given sympathy and respect and the woman in that case is chastised for “holding on too tight.”
Give me a break. How about everyone – men and women alike – put their big girl and boy pants on and take responsibility for their own well-being, happiness and sense of self-esteem?
amy 37
Evan, I think you talked around the problem.
A guy who does that kind of thing isn’t just a wonderful heart-on-sleeve romantic. Either he has real problems, or he thinks she’s desperate and will fall for it.
Yes, there are a lot of desperate men out there — with wildly unrealistic notions about what marriage will do for them — and yes, there are a lot of men who actually pump themselves up by finding women they perceive to be even further down the totem pole than themselves: single mothers. It’s super insulting, but they assume that single moms, esp over 35 or so, must be desperate for men to come save them. Any men. Even themselves.
Leah is smart not to want this, and also smart to protect her children from these men. What she needs to do is screen them better from go, not go out with them twice. How can she do that? Well, a guy who’s not desperate usually has some kind of project or trajectory he’s seriously interested in. He’s not shining at her like she’s his next true savior. He’s friends with his ex. He doesn’t talk pityingly at her, as if she wants to be comforted. He’s warm, but somewhat reserved. He’s not evasive about why he’s single. If he has family nearby, he’s got warm relationships with them.
The fact is that Leah’s going to attract a lot of the desperate because they figure they can get her: single mom, two kids. She’s also going to deflect a lot of more together, successful guys because they just don’t want her baggage, and don’t want someone else’s kids. Her best bet, if she’s actually interested in marriage, is a together, tired, single dad who knows who he is and whose first commitment is to his kids, and who isn’t looking for a woman to come in and relieve him of parenting-time chores.
Sexy as well as busy 38
Busy woman, putting it brief and blunt: Evan, you sound needy. Taking up for needy men betrays you’re needy also. John, you’re also needy, and that’s why you’re cheerleading it. Man up.
Women aren’t asking for perfection. We’re asking for a happy medium. Men can’t figure out sane. They’re either too little or too much. Just dealt with a needy man and learned from him I am never marrying. The last thing I want is a toddler in my life – and if that changes, I’ll get pregnant and bring one into the world. Women can, ya know. Our choice. Our rules.
Stop being needy, a stalker, obsessive, whiny, clingy, etc — you know what it is. You hate it when women do it, and with good reason. Stop demanding women put up with your insanity and bullshit. You don’t put up with ours and we’re not putting up with yours. Man up, get a career or a hobby, and slow it the F down.
One date does not = commitment/soulmates/forever.
You know this.
Stop being disingenuous. You get on the nerves of busy women like me. And yes, I’ve got a lot of callers. So go ahead and insult me. I’m off to the next date, and to find the sane, middle ground man who doesn’t try to make me an ornament in his f–king possession. I AIN’T YOUR DOLL OR YOUR TOY, AND I DO NOT WEAR A TAG WITH YOUR NAME STAMPED ON IT. MAN UP AND MOVE ON. I AM NOT YOUR MOTHER. GET OVER IT.
Got it?
Good.
(I normally delete personal insults but thought this one was particularly funny – EMK)
Bubbles 39
This has also happened to me, three or four times in the last six months! After two dates, they start proclaiming undying love! I figure it’s actually uncontrollable lust and to me, that (not the lust, the lie) is insulting. Why not just get a handle on that, lol, and get to know me first!
Deb 40
I had a guy ask me to marry him only a few weeks after getting to know me. It freaked me out because I never said I loved or was interested. I think commitment takes time to develop and being single for 10 years now also takes getting used to again. I really don’t like clingy men who appear insecure. There’s a difference in a man who knows what he wants and goes for it and a man who seems desperate and can’t let you go. It’s unattractive when a man is clingy.
Paragon 41
What a joke.
All these women lamenting ‘desperate/clingy/needy/etc’ men, would be *all over* such men, *if* they resembled William Levy(or whoever else the relevant demographic is swooning over at the moment).
So, this aversion to clingy men, is not necessarily be an indictment of clingy traits, per se – but may speak to a
correlation between such traits, and relative tendencies in male attractiveness(ie. it is not a case that clingy men tend to be unattractive, but rather that unattractive men tend to be ‘clingy’).
Personally, I was not hindered by a concern to obscure my acute bonding shortly after I met my soul-mate(who betrayed a similar degree of bonding, in a short interval of time) – but then, we are both equally attracted to each other(as rare as that might be) – so any attraction asymmetry/disconnect is eliminated as a likely factor.
But, I suspect that it is also equally the case that most chronically single females have become so pathologically maladapted to LTRs, that they have calibrated their biases to screen out the only men who are likely to invest in them long term(by rejecting such males as ‘needy’).
This very thread is a testament to such a toxic female demographic.
Ruby 42
Paragn #41
Interesting that you acknowledge that equal attraction is a rare phenomenon, at least as it applies to your own situation, but that for the hundreds of single women reading this blog, the problem is that they are “pathologically maladapted to LTRs, that they have calibrated their biases to screen out the only men who are likely to invest in them long term,” and are part of a “toxic demographic.” Why is an attached man who feels as you do reading a blog dedicated to “smart, strong, successful women” if not to knock them down a few pegs?
Paragon 43
@ Ruby
“Interesting that you acknowledge that equal attraction is a rare phenomenon, at least as it applies to your own situation, but that for the hundreds of single women reading this blog, the problem is that they are “pathologically maladapted to LTRs, that they have calibrated their biases to screen out the only men who are likely to invest in them long term,” and are part of a “toxic demographic.” Why is an attached man who feels as you do reading a blog dedicated to “smart, strong, successful women” if not to knock them down a few pegs?”
I suppose it is exasperation from my personal interactions with female friends/family/acquaintances who are wont to rationalize their irrational biases through spurious justifications and reasoning – it has admittedly skewed my expectations.
Perhaps instruction is best communicated through sympathetic terms(Evan’s job), than passionate criticism.
Jack Horner 44
I ain’t going broke while you comparison shop. I can handle rejection but after 3 dates…it aint about intimacy but we should be defining what type of relationship this is. I agree that single moms are undateable so far. I understand kids being a priority, but spending your time off with your friends instead of me is a turn off. Yeah, I like attention, but if the attraction between 2 people is mutual, then we’ll include each other with our friends. If mutual attraction isn’t present…oh well, it wasn’t meant to be.
Mandy 45
It’s not about ‘de-valuing’ someone just because they want too much too soon, it’s about using your common sense, dipping your toe before you dive and having enough time to really get to know someone in order to know if you would be compatible in a relationship (and it takes a lot more than a couple of dates to determine that! That’s why we ‘date’ first
). There’s a difference between liking someone a lot and suffocating them and we all need our own personal space otherwise it’s unhealthy (whether you are just dating or even married). I don’t see anything wrong in taking it slow, actually it seems far more rational than diving into something serious with someone you haven’t known long enough to ‘know’ or to develop deep feelings for. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, if you are also a clingy and intense woman who likes all that. Perhaps these men need to be clear from the start that they want to ‘run before they can walk’ and like to be the centre of your universe almost immediately….then you can determine whether you want to be a part of it….or part with it! I’ve given in to many fast movers and become emotionally involved with them before getting to know them…..in every case, they all turned out to be too clingy and have serious insecurity issues but because I’d let them in so soon, it made it much harder to walk away. So I think it’s healthier to date first for a few months and if you find someone who agrees with that, you are more likely to be on the same wavelength 
Healthy relationships involve time together and time to yourself to be with friends and family. You need someone who is strong enough to swim alongside you but doesn’t need to cling to you to keep them afloat and stop them sinking beneath their waves of issues. Any person who is clingy doesn’t respect you because if they did, they wouldn’t be so greedy and would understand you need time to yourself as well and they have no right to make you feel guilty for that. Remember it is their issue not yours.
Clare 46
I agree with Mandy above.
I think up to a certain point it’s differences in timing, but it’s also about common sense. I had a guy say he loved me after one date, and start talking about moving in together after 3 dates. Needless to say, I started backing away in extreme discomfort and then having to provide e-mail explanations about why I didn’t feel as strongly as him.
And this after I had stated at the outset that I needed to take things slowly as I had just finalised my divorce.
It was a pity because I had actually been very interested in him, but it was complete self-sabotage on his part. But I do agree with Mandy @ 45 this inability to observe just the normal rules of dating could signal insecurity which it would be unwise to give into. This guy I described above turned into something of a stalker which took me a couple of months to get rid of.
Julia 47
@Clare This might also be a tactic for “nicer” guys, ie guys without balls. I recently went out on a couple of dates with a man who would just gush over how wonderful I was, it was not attractive. When I told him that we weren’t right for each other he said “Yeah we don’t really have any connection other than how attractive you are.” So I guess he was using flattery as a tactic to get me in bed, I didn’t fall for it and it backfired on him.
Louise Krekic 48
Men and women have always been playing cat & dog games, that is totally normal. One advances and the other one pulls away. So it goes to the end where finally one of them wins. It’s in our nature to play that game and we do it to test the other person and to see how much they like us. If they likes us a lot they will still be back after many rejections.
I wouldn’t misinterpret someone’s attention and advancing as being needy or clingy. Maybe the person really likes you. Don’t we need each other in relationships at least a little ? If you dont need anyone, why are you looking for a mate ? Why are some of us so scared of needy, clingy people ? Some men just like to know that the woman is theirs for life and men ar the ones that are sexually jealous. They dont want another man to get hands on their catch. Women are jealous of their man falling in love with another woman and abandoning them emotinally. It is all the evolutionary stuff. I could write about this for hours.
Lucy 49
Clingy people are absolutely bad news. There is no doubt about it. They don’t really like you for who you are. You could be anyone as far as they’re concerned. And if you end up in a relationship with a clingy person, they could get controlling and/or emotionally manipulative. Well, that is the bad side of that.
I do not think everyone who has the potential to be clingy is necessarily bad though. I know because I look back at myself when I was clingier and I was never a bad person. I only had to learn to hold back in expressing how I felt about someone. A few months ago I went a date with a good guy. I knew he had potential but what put me off was the fact that he seemed to have built me up in his head and didn’t seem to treat me as someone he wanted to get to know. He was fast forwarding in his head to the ideal of a relationship, and I didn’t like the pace. I think what threw me is that he saw “relationship” in his mind without trying to establish how compatible we were.
At the same time though, I have no idea why I would be afraid of someone being enthusiastic about me. I realise that this reflects how I felt about myself. I had read him as too clingy and a bit desperate. Now I know I was being unfair. I can see it so clearly now! I can see that I was unfairly dismissing his interest. I felt that I was leading conversation all the time, but perhaps I put him off because I wasn’t opening up enough myself. From now on, I’ve decided to make a real effort to not be so quick to pass judgement on someone for merely taking an interest and making a genuine effort.
This is a perfect example of how women can jeopardise the potential of a good relationship with a quality man through self-sabotage (over-thinking). I blame the media I’ve been exposed to as well. There is so much literature on alpha males and pick up artistry. I have read too much of it and I believe that makes me too quick to reject the “nice guy”. I’m not talking about an insecure guy, I’m talking about the type of quality guy who might not stand out as much (but not due to lack of confidence). Truth is you don’t really want to be dating a man with a lot of false bravado and/or narcissism. Women who don’t see it for what it is aren’t digging deep enough!
Karyn 50
I’m on Leah’s side. The fact is, it takes time to get to know a person and dating is a perfect solution to discovering who that person is. It’s not about being too guarded or hostile towards men or relationships, it’s about discovery. Imagine if Marco Polo just sailed to the very first land mass he found, got off board, looked around the island, and said, ”Hey, I think I’ll call this America!” except it was Lanzarote!
It’s mysterious behaviour when a guy wants to ‘define’ a relationship; this should come somewhat naturally after maybe two or three months of dating, phone calls and reciprocated communications and desire to spend time together. It shouldn’t be forced.
The guy who decides that he wants you in his life, asks you to commit, tells you that you are better off with him and that you should move in with him is probably a control freak. I know because I’ve experienced Leah’s issue many times. The biggest mistake these guys make is trying to make the womans life or lifestyle seem empty and needy, he probably doesn’t respect her goals and hopes either (because he has his own plans).
Leah, I hope you find someone who is as careful and considered as yourself, I hope you both take time to get know one another and enjoy the dating era of your relationship. Good luck.
Mary 51
Its even worse when those needy and clingy men start taking interest in married women (like myself). But I suppose those guys are too blinded by thoughts of sex than noticing I am married. Go figure.
Hannai 52
Hey guys, I agree with Leah, and anyone else who spoke along those same lines. I broke off an engagement earlier this year, because he didn’t respect me or my family. He talked trash about them alot, talked down on me because I always seemed to be doing something wrong, had no problem with me spending all my money on him and his cigerettes and beer, wanted me to call his kids “my kids” ( even though they have a perfectly capable mother, and she takes care of them most of the time, he only gets bi-weekly visits), wasn’t there for my when I got in my car accident, because he was scared of hospitals (bullshit). By the time I ended it with him, I was broke, and very emotionally distraught. It took me months to be okay with the idea of dating anyone again.
The thing is….there were signs from the beginning. Me and him met through Facebook, because I was friends with his sister. When we starting talking, he told me how much he liked me, was very excitable ( loves exclamation points), and that we would be together FOREVER and he just knew we were meant to be. He was talking about how he would move to
my state and go to my school. He came to my state and visited me. I told him that I didn’t really have those feelings for him (how could I? I don’t really know the guy). He got his feelings hurt but he kept trying. We ended up sleeping together after the first weekend we met. Funny thing is that I never slept with anyone before that.
I decided that since he was being sweet to me even after that, he was truly into me. A month later I met his kids and we got along well. Although kids naturally like me anyway. I think that in his mind, I was the one for him. He wanted to marry me basically 2 months after he met me! I wasn’t ready for that yet and I wanted us to take it slow.
It was probably 4 months before I really was in love with him. By that time, however, I think the chase wore off for him. He started smoking and drinking again ( at the beginning he said he had quit…I guess not), he decided he didn’t need his meds for bi-polar disorder anymore because he felt just fine. He became lazy when I came to intimacy, and he started asking me to pay for things for him. Several times he was verbally abusive. I should not have just walked, but RAN away from this loser, but I had fallen for him, and didn’t know what I would do without him. I felt a sense of duty to him, maybe because he treated me like a child.
After several more months he moved in with me, and it was hell. I was miserable. I got in an accident like I said earlier and he wasn’t there. My family was furious with him. He didn’t like that they were disproving of him and trying to talk me out of being with him. I finally had enough with him after he told me that “I brought this out of him.” it was too much, especially after everything I did for him.
I’ve learned from this diasaster thankfully. I could have avoided this altogether from the the beginning though if I had listened to my gut instincts about him being too clingy. This is what happens, ladies, if you don’t listen to red flags going off. Trust your instincts on this. Being with a bad person could rip away your self esteem, and then you have to spend months, and even years, rebuilding that.
Peter 53
Divorce is a Rampant Epidemic especially when the government & military (NATO) is behind it!
I went to a father’s group in Texas (just north of Fort Hood) where some ex-military west pointer gave some real eye-opening comments. He basically said that the current Divorce process, legislation, court system and military is all one scheme that was put into play around the early 1960‘s. It was put in place for the Vietnam War, that’s when the divorces started to sky-rocket across the country (Google statistics). That in addition, it was also designed to be one huge cash-cow to lure greedy lawyers to facilitate and destroy more families on the civilian side to get enough statistics to make it comparable to the military statistics. However the military numbers are still much higher. That is why they then modified the scheme to use on police nationwide to raise the civilian stats as most are ex-military and won’t suspect anything wrong.
It is designed to send “single” male soldiers without family responsibilities to war and deny ex-wives any long-term financial support that was initially and may still be coming from the military/ pentagon’s money pockets. This is why laws traditionally have been favoring women. Women are lured to divorce partners with both positive and negatives reinforcements. The positive is they get the kids, the house, money in many forms-child support etc thus they benefit in the short term. To the military, the soldiers wives are expendable as are the soldiers and even their children! Simply the less money the military spends on wives, kids, ex-soldiers, the medical bills etc, the more they have for their drones, guns, or bullets. The scheme is very very complicated but based on very slow very subtle psy-ops brainwashing tactics followed by Machiavellian divide and conquer restraining orders. He said that any Freedom of Information request will gradually reveal key pieces of data that when analyzed together with confirm all this. Talking about this among other soldiers would also reveal stuff, so they came up with “leave your family problems at home” and the “zero tolerance” to divorce and get the spouses or soldiers out of the service quickly before they talk and expose the scheme. Many times this leads to actual suicides or apparent “suicides” to silence those that know too much. This is also the reason why the Pentagon does not want to release documents related to divorce. Part of the even bigger Military-Industrial complex. Similar schemes used throughout the world pushed through United Nations facades.
Basically makes wives and soldier fight and hate each other. The scheme basically exploits women’s emotional traits to spread itself to other victims. The media contributes to the fear mongering and makes things worst. Fear (PTSD etc) makes women fear for their safety or some play the helpless damsel in distress thus they then go pleading to the oh-so-willing authorities who provide them with military issued cookie cutter divorce packets to take to a civilian lawyer. They do this to hide where the process initially starts.
Severine 54
I have the same problem .I recently went on a date with a
guy who seemed nice, successful blah, blah blah. . However, there
were some red flags which I willingly chose to ignore. Like the
fact that he was 52 and still single and that his last relationship
lasted only 3 months. Anyways, we hooked up(no sex). It was
terrible! As we were kissing he starts to cry! I had no idea what
to do. I just wanted him out of my house after that. Then he
starts mentioning( on the first date) that all he wants is a
relationship and someone to spend every waking moment with. How we
are soulmates and there’s a reason why were were at starbucks on
the same day. He finally went home and immeditately begins texting
and calling the next day. Within a week he asked me to hang out
with him 8 different times. He was like,’it’s rare to find the kind
of connection we share so you shouldn’t pass up this opportunity”
I’ve never been more turned off in my life! I tried ignoring him,
saying, I hope we can be friends, to I think you need a therapist,
you are crazy, and needy. Then I finally said STOP TEXTING ME
I AM NOT INTERESTED IN HANGING OUT WITH YOU. Anyways, he didn’t get
the hint so I had att block his number. Even after blocking his
number he found a way to text me again today inviting me to some
event. I was pissed and unloaded on his ass. I also contacted my
brother who is a hell’s angel to give him a call:) His feelings
were hurt, but I think he finally got the hint. Attention all you
needy single men! WHEN A WOMAN SAYS NO SHE MEANS NO!!!!! I felt
like he was convinced that if he kept calling and texting I would
finally cave and give in. Disgusting. I am never giving my number
to some random guy In a parking lot ever again.