How Do I Break Up Without Hurting Him?
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Hi Evan,
I did a search on “why men fall in love with me so quickly” to try to figure out what I’m doing wrong. I found that the question was based on the fact that the girl was “very attractive.” Well, it happens to me all the time and I’m not that attractive! I’ve been told that I’m beautiful and sexy, but I think I’m just an average girl.. Anyway, men – even on the internet – fall in love with me. I know I’m a pleaser. My mother was narcissistic. I’m working on all that. Recently single (10 months,) I vowed that I was going to spend time on my own. I thought I could maybe date and have fun. But this isn’t the case.
I’m kind and tend to be very complimentary. But I’ve been paying close attention to what I say. I compliment women the same way! Women tend to appreciate it…men fall in love with me. It’s difficult for me not to look for the good in people and tell them about it. I rarely tell anyone the bad about themselves… I don’t see the point in hurting people that way! (Most people know their problems and don’t need their noses rubbed in it.) Not too many people see their good points. I know this because I’m like that: I see all the negatives in myself. Anyway, I have difficulty with hurting people, and when they hurt, I hurt too. So breaking up with a guy is a long and painful process. I have to find the nerve and when I do, it’s so gentle that he’s confused about what I’m trying to say!
I recently broke up with a very nice man. There was no spark and I really, truly wanted to remain friends, but he says he loves me and now can’t eat or sleep. My girl friend says that he’s using sympathy to try to change my mind. You’ve no idea how often I cry when I hear his messages! I finally told him that I didn’t feel a spark at the beginning. He said to give it a bit more time. I relented but still no spark. I just feel like I make a mess of things. We only dated for a couple of months. My ex, who I was with for 10 years, same thing. I know if I called him right now, he’d take me back!
I’m very interested in your opinion.
Thank you, Sue
Dear Sue,
Thousands of women have just read your letter with their jaws dropped.
“TOO MANY MEN fall in love with her? And she’s just an AVERAGE girl?! I don’t understand. The only men I get are arrogant, selfish, commitmentphobic jerkoffs! Where does she live? Where can I find those nice, relationship-oriented men?”
They’re right in your own hometown. I promise.
Men are more about FEELINGS than looks. When men feel good, we stick around.
The difference is that Sue is a master at making men feel good, which is the central premise of “Why He Disappeared.” As I’ve previously stated, men are about FEELINGS more than looks, and if we don’t feel good with you, we’re not sticking around.
So if you’re reading this and you wish you could have Sue’s problem of too many men who fall for her, guess what? You can. Just listen to how Sue does it:
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51 Comments »Filed Under Letting Go
starthrower68 1
There is no way to break up with someone without it hurting them; none of us like rejection. It’s less painful to rip the bandage off quickly than to do it slowly.
Goldie 2
As someone who’s a lot like Sue (I had a therapist tell me that my biggest problem is not being able to say no to people, and trying to be nice to everyone), may I add something for her benefit? Telling herself “every second I’m spending with the wrong man is a second I’m not looking for the right man” isn’t going to help Sue at all. One, she’s not even looking for the right man at the moment, and two, this will just make her feel mean and selfish – “OMG, how can I dump poor Jim/Bob/Paul just so I can go on looking for the right man?” Along these lines. In my opinion, a better philosophy for someone like Sue would be – “every second Jim/Bob/Paul is spending with me is a second he is not looking for the right woman”.Way more altruistic. Now, by letting Jim/Bob/Paul go, Sue is doing him a favor. (Which, in fact, she really is.) Now if I could apply this wisdom in my own life when I need it
Why, just this morning, I was out chasing the Spark. You’re right, it’s a losing strategy 
By the way, I enjoy reading about the spark on here. It’s my dog’s name
Diana 3
When it comes to breaking up for good, it’s always best to be direct and clear, so there can be no misunderstandings or false hopes. And to not continue contact, unless you’re truly able to maintain a platonic friendship.
Sue’s pleaser personality is good in one regard [all the men love her {who doesn't love a pleaser}], and detrimental in another [she's likely trampling over her own, deeper feelings]. Psychologically, there’s a reason for this, but that’s another blog.
I lived for many years with a pleaser. I have pleaser tendencies like Sue as well. In the end, the pleaser couldn’t bring himself to hurt me, but, unknown to me, he was also suffering, and so he chose to flee, rather than deal with whatever his thoughts and feelings were. Of course, this was insanely ironic, given that his fleeing caused the worst pain of them all for me, and others.
I think it’s wonderful to make people feel good, but also realize that people are responsible and accountable for their own thoughts and feelings, and that’s a burden you do not want to carry.
Diana 4
And yes, that includes me, too.
Luxe 5
I agree, there is no way around from hurting someone when you are breaking up with them. That is what comes with the territory of dating. You go in dating to know that you will potentially be hurt and you could potentially hurt someone else.
Make it quick. Be strong and be firm. As long as you don’t start criticizing (which you won’t have to worry about) and you are being considerate, then that’s all you can do. And by considerate, I mean you’re not trying to break up with him over email or something like that. I doubt you would do that though Sue
Karl R 6
Sue said: (original post)
“I have difficulty with hurting people, and when they hurt, I hurt too. So breaking up with a guy is a long and painful process.”
Breakups are painful. They don’t have to be long. Your goal is to make it a short and painful process. That’s one way to minimize the pain.
The longer you take to work up your nerve for the breakup, the more time he has to get attached to you. The more attached he is, the more painful it is. Another way to minimize the pain is to break up sooner instead of later.
Pain is part of dating. If someone’s not willing to get hurt, they have no business dating. If you’re not willing to be the source of someone else’s pain, then you have no business dating either.
Sue said: (original post)
“He said to give it a bit more time. I relented but still no spark. I just feel like I make a mess of things.”
So now you have to break up with him a second time, and cause twice the pain. It was a mistake, but I don’t think it was big enough to call it “a mess.”
When you break up with someone, be decisive.
If you say, “I’m not sure I want to date you,” they hear, “but I might change my mind.”
If you say, “I’m not interested in a relationship right now,” they hear, “but I might be later on.”
When he said, “Give it a bit more time,” the proper response is, “I already did.” It’s quick; it’s decisive; it’s final.
Sue said: (original post)
“I’ve been paying close attention to what I say. I compliment women the same way! Women tend to appreciate it…men fall in love with me.”
Listen to how straight men compliment other men. That’s the way to compliment men without them getting the wrong idea.
Men tend to compliment other men on their accomplishments, not on who they are. Instead of saying, “You are a wonderful speaker,” we’re more likely to say, “That was a wonderful speech.”
Whatever you do, don’t compliment a man’s looks unless you want him to think you’re attracted to him.
Goldie 7
This may or may not be OT. I have a question to all re: not breaking up over email, text, phone & such. For a woman, are there ever any situations where it is not safe to break up with a man face-to-face and in person? And are there ways to predict a situation like this?
that she’d met on a dating site and then broke up with him. It happened three years ago and was all over the news. I was home when it happened – talked to the cops, hid from the reporters, had my front yard yellow-taped – so I assure you it’s a real story, not an urban legend.
What I mean here, a guy may have anger problems, a guy may not be used to rejection, a guy may lose it. And let’s face it, it’s pretty rare for a woman to physically overpower an angry guy. Not to scare anyone, but we used to live next to a family where the owner and his daughter were shot to death by the daughter’s ex-boyfriend
Goldie 8
@ Diane #3: “Sue’s pleaser personality is good in one regard [all the men love her {who doesn't love a pleaser}], and detrimental in another [she's likely trampling over her own, deeper feelings].”
As a bit of a pleaser myself, I really hope this does not imply that Sue compliments the men merely in order to be liked, or that she somehow lies to herself (and to these men) when she compliments them. From her letter, it appears to me that she really, honestly sees the good qualities in every person. I totally get this. My personal motto, since my late teens/early 20s, has been R.Waldo Emerson’s quote: “In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.” Very true, and works great in life, work, friendship etc. Works with my own children, even.
Problem with applying the same principle to dating is that, while every man I meet is, in fact, my superior and potential mentor in some way, only one can be my BF/SO. When I compliment a guy I meet on a dating site the way I would anyone else, the message he gets is that I have singled him out and don’t want to be with anyone else but him. All sorts of miscommunications and hurt feelings ensue.
Not sure yet how to get around this problem. If Sue finds out before I do, can she please let me know
Apologize for the multiple comments – this post struck a chord with me. I promise I’m done for today
Cat 9
Goldie, my ex got a roommate after we broke up who was shot and killed in front of his girlfriend by her estranged husband, who also then committed suicide, in my ex’s front yard in a quiet, “safe” family neighborhood. Tragically, these things do happen and, as you said, are not urban legends!
As far as safety goes, somewhere public like a Starbucks is a good place to go. Less likely to have a scene as well! This book has useful tips about predicting dangerous behavior and evaluating whether someone will use violence, as well as how to deal with stalkers or men who just won’t let go. It’s a “must read” for all women, as far as I’m concerned: The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.
Diana 10
Hi Goldie ~ no, it only implies what you want it to.
I didn’t sense from Sue’s letter that she compliments men in order to be liked; thus, hiding her true feelings which might be different.
In reading through this again, I think there are two things at work here. First, there’s her naturally kind and good manner, which brings out the compliments and thinking well of others, etc., and then there’s her trying to be a pleaser, as she referred to herself, and that she’s working on that. Maybe Sue is overly sensitive to other people’s feelings, to the point of crippling her, like the comment about how often she cries when she hears the messages of a man she broke up with twice, and dated for a mere two months. I sense her heart is being partially governed by fear, and learning to let go will set both her and her suitors free.
Ebisu 11
If ever there was a rigged letter, then this is it, Sorry, Evan, I’ve been reading your pages for years for tips, but this pushes it.
Changing subject, I’ve now found my mate through face-to-face means, after 2 years of no luck on the internet. He’s the sweetest, gentlest guy I could have dreamed of, and yet still “a man”, and takes control at all the times I expect him to. He was hesitant to commit, because he had me on a pedastel, as he admitted in a heart to heart, but once I revealed my own vulnerabilities, and he realised I was only human too, with as many doubts as him, he felt free to commit to me to a long-term relationship, and then things were in full swing. I love him all the more for the conversation we had about our vulnerabilities, and how eventually it strengthened us.
Feel free to use as an example in your writings………..
Happily in love, now
J
Cat 12
Congrats J (#11) on being in love and having it returned. As we all know, that’s no small feat! You mention Evan should use you as an example. Is there something you learned from him that means he should refer to you?
BTW, you’re wrong that any letters are “rigged.” Evan is far too busy to start making up letters, nor does he need to! He only chooses four a month from the dozens upon dozens of letters he receives every week. He does edit for length. He makes up a title to match the letter–but that’s all he invents: the title. Nothing’s rigged. Sorry to disappoint you!
But that would be a fun contest: make up a letter for Evan to answer! Who’s in?
JuJu 13
I don’t know if the letter is rigged (it’s just easier sometimes to take things at face value
), but I did think one thing: not to belittle Sue’s romantic accomplishments, but two men do not a pattern make. 
The letter seems to be making a bigger problem of what is going on than it actually is.
Ruby 14
I don’t think this letter is rigged, but I wonder about the conclusions being drawn here. Are men falling for Sue because she’s so complimentary, or because she’s so elusive? She admits to spending 10 YEARS with a man with whom she felt no spark. Maybe she’s nice, “easy” and pleasant, but doesn’t criticize or get upset because she’s just not into these men all that much. Might we say that she is dating men and with-holding commitment? And that this with-holding makes the men desire her even more?
Joe 15
If you break up with a guy, do it quickly, and DON’T LIE. Don’t say, “Oh, I’m not ready to date,” or “I need to spend some time figuring out what I want.” If he finds out later that you started dating someone else shortly after, he’ll feel hurt worse than if you’d just told him the truth that you just weren’t into him.
JerseyGirl 16
I am going to agree with what JuJu and Ruby are saying. She spent 10 years with the same man. I think the writer of the letter could very well be over-stating her situation and represents herself has this kind, gentle soul with a little tendency towards narcissism.
Selena 17
I think sometimes people stay in relationships out of inertia. It may not be as fullfilling as they wish, but since it really isn’t *bad* there isn’t high incentive to end it and move on. That was my impression reading of Sue’s 10 yr. relationship.
Selena 18
And Joe, your advice in #15 is excellent. It should also apply to both women AND men.
Goldie 19
#14-15, well of course she’s withholding commitment. She just got out of a ten-year marriage for crying out loud. Of course she’s not ready to date seriously, and needs time to figure out what she wants. That’s normal behavior. I would worry a lot more if a person got out of one LTR and immediately said they were ready for another.
I’m serious, BTW.
Problem is, I cannot tell from the letter if she’s being upfront about it with the guys she dates. Maybe they want a serious relationship and think she wants one too. Of course, from my experience, people do not react too well when you tell them you’re taking it easy and still trying to figure out what’ll work for you. I get it that no one wants to be someone else’s guinea pig, but what are we to do when we’re really not ready for a long-term, but still feel we need to get out there, meet different kinds of people, and figure out how this whole dating thing works? I’m still looking for answers myself.
#10 Diana, good points, I agree. Maybe Sue (and the rest of us with this problem) could benefit from a few hours of good therapy
#9 Cat, I ordered The Gift Of Fear yesterday, it was just a few bucks used on Amazon. Thanks for the tip! I read Protecting The Gift when my kids were young and it helped, but it’s mostly about parenting, so doesn’t apply to dating much.
Steve 20
Sue;
There is no good way to break up with a person. It is always going to be disappointing at the least or hurtful. You can choose to do it in a “less bad” way. Sooner is always better. Like Evan wrote, that frees them and you to go find the right person sooner. The feelings also run less deep the sooner it happens.
Giving an honest and complete reason ( feedback ) is often a thankless task.
It feels hurtful to tell someone. They can get upset. They may want to debate you about your perceptions, rather than listen to the valuable feedback. .
I agree with Evan that it can be helpful to the other person. People are often unaware of their shortcomings. Sometimes, some people need to get feedback about the same issue several times before it sinks in.
Granted, they will no longer be in your life, you will get no benefit from dispensing the advice and it can be a thankless task.
At least you know you gave them helpful information.
Ruby 21
Goldie #18 I wasn’t saying that Sue should or shouldn’t be avoiding commitment. My point was that we can’t assume that, as Evan said, men fall for her because she’s nice and uncritical. Perhaps it’s more because she’s holding back and elusive (even in her 10-year relationship – she didn’t say she was married). So she’s always the one who loves less. Although as Juju mentioned, “two men do not a pattern make”. If all she needs to do is figure out what she wants and heal from her last relationship, then she needs to be upfront with the men she’s dating. If she was upfront with them from the get-go, instead of trying to accommodate men she doesn’t even care that much about, it would probably solve a lot of her problem.
Luxe 22
@7 Goldie
I very do well believe that a break up to lead up to physical violence. I honestly think that breaking up via phone, email, text etc instead of face to face will probably have the same results. If a person goes balistic.. they’ll go baslistic no matter what way you break up with them. Difference might be whether they physically harm you now or come back to do it later, unfortunately.
I don’t know about the whole men fall in love with her for not being critical and nice. I’m pretty nice and not critical, I don’t have guys falling in love with me left and right though,
Maybe she attracts needy men? And then that is how she gets in these situations where she feels guilty enough to be drawn back in.
JuJu 23
Steve, #20, how is “I am not attracted to you” – useful information?
The Seductress 24
“I have difficulty with hurting people, and when they hurt, I hurt too. So breaking up with a guy is a long and painful process. I have to find the nerve and when I do, it’s so gentle that he’s confused about what I’m trying to say!”
Sue, I think the problem here is that because you are admittedly a pleaser and hate to hurt people, you can’t stand the thought of these men not seeing you that way anymore upon breakup. If they are hurt or angry by your actions, you no longer smell the like the rose you are used to smelling like in their eyes.
I don’t think you take this long, drawn out process of breaking up in order to make it easier on the man, you do it to make it easier on YOU. You want to go off into the distance with them still thinking lovely, positive, admiring thoughts of you and that won’t happen if they are hurt or angry by a swift, clean break and no communication. They WILL go away and you won’t get to hear how broken they are over the loss of you. And, they may go away angry and you can’t stand that either. This sounds harsh, but I’m convinced you get fed by this behavior or you wouldn’t repeat it.
If you attempt to break up gently, you are hoping to slip-slide out of the relationship with them accepting it but still loving and thinking nothing but fabulous thoughts of you. AND you get to see and hear about this process because of the messages, re-hashed talks, his begging you to stay.
And of course they are confused because you are doing this on purpose.
If you want to be kind to these men. Break it off clean. Give reasons that are solid and unfixable and don’t do the phone calls, extended communication, repeated discussions that make you feel good on some level and only make the man feel worse.
Tihs isn’t good for you or these men. You need to be strong so you can find the right man and not waste your or the wrong man’s time on this so-called ’benevolence’.
Again, I know it sounds harsh and I apologize for that but a ‘pleaser’ personality is usually more about the payoff for the pleaser….
Joe 25
@ Selena #18: Yes!
@ Juju #23: If you’re being truly honest that you’re not attracted to the person, it tells him/her that s/he should not hold out any hope. A reasonable person will move on; obviously with someone unreasonable it won’t matter what you say.
Selena 26
I don’t think you need to inform someone of their shortcomings when you break up with them. If it’s a short term relationship all you need to say is it isn’t working out for you and wish them the best.
In a long term relationship they already know you are breaking up with them because of their shortcomings.
Karl R 27
Steve said: (#20)
“Giving an honest and complete reason ( feedback ) is often a thankless task.”
“At least you know you gave them helpful information.”
I disagree. If you give them a complete and honest reason, you’re most likely being a complete and unmitigated jerk.
It’s painful to get dumped. Do you really want your ex-girlfriend to add to that pain by giving you a complete laundry list of every fault that she noticed during the months that you were dating?
What makes you think the information is helpful? I’m aware of most of my flaws; more than someone else will notice unless they’re exceptionally astute. If the person is remotely self-aware, you’re going to be telling them information that they already know. How “helpful” is that?
You’re right about it being a thankless task. How thankful are you when an insensitive jerk decides to “help” you by telling you everything that’s wrong with you?
I’ll give the person one reason for the breakup. Preferably a dealbreaker reason that they also agree is true. (i.e. You want kids and I don’t.) Sometimes I have to get creative with the reason in order to be honest without being hurtful. I dated one woman who too immature for my tastes. My explanation to her: “Our age difference puts us at different stages in life, and I don’t see this relationship going anywhere in the long run because of that.”
If my exes want my feedback on how they can improve, they can ask me for it. I’m not going to offer unsolicited advice.
Selena 28
Seductress #27
That was a very insightful take on the situation.
JuJu 29
Another thing in regards to Steve’s and Karl’s posts:
the faults we see in people are not objective. Other people might actually like those same qualities.
I personally have been criticized for some traits I happen to value in both myself and others.
JuJu 30
Thought of something else: I generally enjoy reading advice columns, but Carolyn Hax in particular sometimes just amazes me with her clarity of thought.
One pearl of wisdom from her, pertaining specifically to the difficulty of breaking up with a person, was, “Tell him why you two don’t work as a couple, not why he doesn’t work as an individual.”
Diana 31
To The Seductress, #27, I like your insightful observation. If I may, I think Sue is deeply insecure, and the positive vibes, etc. that she receives from other people counter balance the way she sees herself in such a negative light. As long as the good times roll, then maybe she doesn’t have to deal as much with what’s really going on.
The other sounds like too much work.
I use to suffer from being a pleaser, but it honestly wasn’t out of a desire to be liked; more out of guilt and feeling responsible for others. It takes a lot of strength and conviction to be able to know yourself and to listen to your own voice for a change.
I wondered, too, about the possible neediness of the men. I know that men love to have their egos stroked, and don’t like to hear criticism [who does], but I think I’ve also read that when a woman comes off as “too” complimentary, etc., that’s kind of a turn off, if he’s confident and secure. I’m sure Evan will correct me.
And for the record, no. I don’t wish I had Sue’s problem of too many men falling in love with me. I only want the “right” one to fall in love with me.
The Seductress 32
Diana, #31
Yes, I agree that the inner conflict Sue has is insecurity. And you are right, it isn’t as simple as wanting to be liked. Guilt, and feeling responsible for others are probably in there too.
But what is the payoff for an insecure person who pleases, swims in guilt over a break-up and feels the weight of another’s feelings on their shoulders?
It’s that their insecurity gets soothed by feeling benevolent, liked, needed, important or whatever other buzz word is her particular drug.
Karl R 33
The Seductress, (#27)
That makes sense. I think you may have nailed it.
JuJu, (#29 & #30)
You said that much better than I did.
Diana, (#31)
For men, it depends on how much we like the woman. My tolerance for excessive compliments goes up if I’m really into a woman. It’s still possible to exceed that limit, but you won’t hit it as soon.
And there’s no way to limit interest in you to the “right” people. You’re either more likable or less likable.
shalini 34
Goldie #2
Its even more easier to break up when you think by spending more time with him you are letting him fall more deeply for you.. If you look at it this way.. it actually feels a lot more selfish for NOT breaking up.
Everytime i imagine myself in that guys place spending years or months with a girl falling deeply in love and then suddenly knowing she does not love me.. It feels selfish. And thinking this way makes it easier to break up.
Princess 35
I agree wholeheartedly with the Seductress. Very insightful.
Jillian 36
I agree with Seductress #27. Imagine if it was some MAN who was always showering compliments and loving words to a WOMAN, but has no intentions of a long term commitment. Always leaving the Woman wondering, hoping, etc. etc.. He would be considered a louse. It’s easier to break up with a clear cut jerk. A “nice” guy who wastes your time is just as bad. Better to have the guilotine quickly chop of one’s head, then to die a slow painful death bit by bit.
Ebisu 37
@ Cat
The thing I learned from this situation is that although I am a strong, professional woman, earning 300k+, I need to let my feminine side prevail. I learned not to intimdate a man by my status in life, even if that meant sometimes covering it, I know that this is demeaning for many professional women. But at the end of the day, we like to be treated as a woman – hands held, roses, etc – so what is more important in life?
I’d rather have the love of my life, and bullshit a little about about my job, instead of proclaiming my university degree from the rooftops, and then spend every night alone.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for women’s achievements (I speak 5 languages, have lived in 7 countries, and I’m a CPA). But I’ve learned the game now.. And I know that I prefer to have a guy sending me flowers instead of me pontificating about women’s rights, or worse, sitting home at night alone.
Sex Tips Gal 38
My suggestion to Sue, would be to be honest with the guy she’s breaking up with, open communication really helps. Tell him how you really feel, and even if it hurts him, you are not leading him on to false expectations. Hope this helps!
RosiePosie 39
Sue said: “I know I’m a pleaser. My mother was narcissistic. I’m working on all that.”
Sue sounds like she’s done some introspection and doesn’t mind being enlightened. If so, and if she’s done any reading on this (which I have), then I hope it comes as no surprise to her that narcissists tend to breed narcissists, or at least people with narcissistic tendencies.
She calls herself a “pleaser”, but her original post shows a lot of narcissistic tendencies: she decries the fact that too many men fall in love with her (which is self-aggrandizement), she is complimentary and charming, eager to have people like her. The comment by The Seductress is dead-on: Sue is concerned — above all else — about what her soon-to-be-Ex boyfriends think of her. The attention generated by a long, slow, painful breakup is like an addictive drug.
So while some wonder if the original post is “rigged”, it just seems over-the-top because it lacks this context. I’m not a psychiatrist / pscyhologist, but (unfortunately) I do have personal experience living with narcissistic people. I hope she takes no offence at these comments; my humble opinion only.
Helen 40
Once again, I think a few commenters are over-thinking this, and attributing all sorts of negative characteristics to Sue that she doesn’t deserve.
It is not because of egotistical thrills that some women find it hard to break things off in a hurtful manner with men. It’s because these women care about other people’s feelings and would prefer not to hurt anyone if at all possible. Ockham’s Razor, folks.
And it is not “self-aggrandizement” (#39) for Sue to say that too many men fall in love with her. It’s a fact of her life (as it is for many women), and it is NOT, on balance, a desirable thing. On the one hand, it’s flattering. On the other, it’s a pain in the neck if one is already married or otherwise taken, to always have to be interacting with men who seem to expect more from you purely on the basis that they find you attractive.
So, my sympathies to Sue. I would say, extract yourself from the moment you realize you’re not interested. The less time invested, the better for both parties.
DC 41
I’ve been dating a 27-year-old woman since July. Things were going really well, but she works a job that gets insanely busy in September – she did warn me about that, and said this month was going to be really hard for her.
Long story short, after seven or eight weeks of regular dates which went well, she went really quiet. She’s been terse when I’ve contacted her, and twice she declined when I asked her out because of her schedule.
But both times she said she’d like to do something later, so we agreed to go to dinner one night. I showed up, waited, then called her when she was uncharacteristically late.
Turns out she’d forgotten about the date and was still at work. She was really apologetic, and she left immediately and met up with me, still in her work clothes. But the date was not good. She was tired, not in a good mood, and we ended the night pretty quickly after dinner.
Before I left, I tried to feel her out, and all signs pointed to her being tired, overworked, and any slights on her part were not personal. She even said as much, and just asked me to be patient with her until her work craziness was over.
I know it’s probably not good to “take a break,” but what was I supposed to do? She was genuinely tired and stressed, so I gave her some space, knowing she was working 80+ hour work weeks.
I haven’t heard from her, and her crazy month is ending, so I tried to reach her earlier this week. No reply.
I can’t think of anything that changed between when things seemed to be going really well and now, aside from her job. I didn’t behave any differently, or say anything I wouldn’t normally say.
If she’s genuinely busy, and I know she is because she works in a pretty public job, that’s cool. I understand and I would never resent her for that. My job gets crazy sometimes too.
But am I wrong to think it’s rude that she hasn’t even contacted me? If she’d rather not date again, isn’t it basic courtesy to at least return a call and say, “I had fun, but I don’t see this going anywhere”? Or am I wrong for expecting anything, even the most basic communication?
The reason I posted this here is because I enjoy reading Evan’s blog, but also because so much of the focus seems to be why women can’t figure out the things men do. But it goes both ways, and I’m most definitely at a loss here. Remember that we can be perplexed too.
Goldie 42
Thank you Helen (#40), that needed to be said. I’ve been watching this thread like a train wreck for the last few days – it started with rational, common-sense comments and then spiraled out of proportion like nobody’s business. Next we’d be discussing how telling people about their positive qualities is a bad thing.
Seriously though, what’s the alternative? I’m sure we all know people that don’t hold anything back, tell it to you like it is, practice tough love etc. Well how’s that working out for them and their loved ones? Has anybody ever enjoyed being on the receiving end of their honesty? Has anybody ever become a better person because their friend, relative, manager, or date told them how much they suck? From my experience, you get a lot farther with support and positive reinforcement.
@ #36: “Imagine if it was some MAN who was always showering compliments and loving words to a WOMAN, but has no intentions of a long term commitment.”
Well first off, I see nothing in Sue’s letter about her showering men with “loving words”. She just tells them about their own good points that they truly, really have. She does the same thing to the women. (The women would probably be shocked if she followed that up with intentions of a long term commitment.) That the men seem to confuse it with Sue offering herself to them, says something about the men she talks to, as well as the delivery of her message. But, to your point, yeah, if a man, any man, acknowledged my good qualities, I’d be thankful. I certainly wouldn’t expect him to produce a ring next, because being realistic is one of my good qualities – so I wouldn’t be disappointed when he doesn’t. But I will definitely appreciate it that he pays attention to the person that I am, is observant and supportive – that’s what friends do.
I’m pretty sure that’s the point Evan was trying to make when he said “compliment, don’t criticize”.
Helen #40: “And it is not “self-aggrandizement” (#39) for Sue to say that too many men fall in love with her. It’s a fact of her life (as it is for many women), and it is NOT, on balance, a desirable thing. “
I agree! Seriously, is it so huge of a stretch to agree that a lot of men can be attracted to the same woman, and that it could be a giant PIA for said woman – like, if none of them are remotely her type – or if they’re too clingy and obsessive – or if she’s already taken, or if she can only choose one, but has a dozen pestering her and none of them would take no for an answer? I can’t believe people are seriously talking about rigged letters and self-aggrandizement. Come on. I wouldn’t use the words “falling in love” though – this sounds kinda 19th century to me, especially if the attraction is not mutual (as is the case with Sue’s suitors) – but they can definitely be attracted enough to create problems in her life.
Goldie 43
@ DC #41, this doesn’t sound good. No communication at all for weeks?
I’d give her the benefit of the doubt one last time and assume that she didn’t get your message, was out of town, wasn’t feeling well etc. (80hr work weeks can, after all, make you physically sick.) I’d wait till September is over (day after tomorrow 
) and then contact her saying that you’re worried about her and to let you know whether she’s okay and well. Then go from there. Good luck.
Being the pleaser that I am
PS. I’m new to dating, so I could be dead wrong on this.
Evan Marc Katz 44
Hey Goldie – appreciate your support and insight. Please keep your answers in one post instead of three in a row. Makes it more readable.
thanks,
The Management.
DC 45
Thanks, Goldie.
I think I need to just let it go. I know she is not a good communicator at anything except face-to-face interaction, and in fact she’s the exact opposite of every other woman I’ve dated – she’s not a serial texter, she’s awkward on the phone, and she’s absolutely tone-deaf when it comes to phrasing things in digital communication.
It’s just a shame because she’s awesome in person and because I wish she at least had the sense or consideration to tell me she’s not interested anymore, rather than to keep saying she wants to hang out.
That’s another reason why I think it was appropriate to post my experience here. Maybe some women think it’s a fine line between leading men on and keeping them around for possible interest, but we are not college students or teenagers, we’re adults.
Having recently returning to dating after being off the market for a couple of years, I was really hoping that the games and general immaturity would be a thing of the past, a thing that 22-year-old women do, but women in their late 20s or early 30s have grown out of.
Helen 46
Goldie #42, I felt the same way – that the next thing you know, someone would start saying that she shouldn’t compliment men.
And it definitely IS interesting to watch “group think”. There are social psychologists at Penn who do work specifically on how discussions like this can spin out in odd directions, and how it can be easy to get people to agree to something that they might not otherwise really believe.
I couldn’t agree with you more about what a PITA it is to deal with men who can’t take No (and can’t take “I’m married,” for that matter). So you’re experiencing it too, eh? At least we can commiserate.
The Seductress 47
DC #41
I think you are right to just let this go and not call her anymore.
Women and men alike can be confusing and send mixed signals, but what is clear about this gal is that dating doesn’t seem to be a priority with her right now.
When you stip away her words and just look at her actions, it’s clear she isn’t into you or isn’t in to dating period because of lack of time and stress. Either way, you deserve better than someone who doesn’t return phone calls, forgets dates, takes their stress out on you, etc…
You say she should be a grown up and communicate to you that she isn’t interested in you anymore, but in reality, she is communicating that with her actions. No, it’s not very grown up, but the message is still clear.
Whether the reason is stress, work, or something isn’t clicking anymore doesn’t really matter. There are plenty of women out there!
Karl R 48
DC said: (#45)
“I wish she at least had the sense or consideration to tell me she’s not interested anymore,”
It’s possible that she is still interested … just not enough to make you a priority when time is short.
If she’s working 80+ hours per week, her available time is minimal. Let’s say she sleeps 6 hours per night; she’s averaging 11.5 hours at work per day; assume a commute of 1 hour each way; 1 hour for the morning routine (shower, hair, makeup, breakfast); 1.5 hours to buy/fix/eat lunch & dinner; 1 hour to decompress each evening so she can fall asleep. That gives her 1 hour per day for everything else (laundry, exercise, housekeeping, entertainment, pets, relationships).
She may want the relationship with you, but not enough to make time when she has so little to spare.
Since this seems like a recurring situation in her life, do you really want the relationship to tank every September when her work gets busy?
She might not want to break up with you, but it might be in your best interest to break up with her.
BeenThereDoneThat 49
Good Point Karl R!
I’ve done that; break up with someone who didn’t have time to invest a minimum of effort into our relationship. When we were exclusive and he was too busy to send an occasional text, I read it as I wasn’t a priority (which he confirmed). This way, I wasn’t sitting around wondering if we were still seeing each other or not. I had closure.
Luxe 50
DC,
Along the same lines as #48. If she was interested enough in wanting your relationship to keep moving forward, she would have made some sort of contact. Even if it was a tiny, not to well written email or such. Especially since you are still dating and haven’t been established relationship wise.
Lisa Harris 51
I think being blunt and truthful is the best way. If you try to be nice about, and tell white lies you’re just going to confuse him. Even if it hurts him, be honest ladies.