How Do I Start a Conversation with a Straight Single Man?

And not that I’m any sort of pickup artist, but the best pick up lines are entirely contextual – meaning, they arise in the moment. If you’re plotting your line in advance, it’s likely to come across as canned. Once again, David Wygant gives excellent advice about meeting people organically. Just know that when you’re striking up conversation with a stranger, the stakes are low. Desexualize the situation and just start talking about what’s in front of you and voila – you’re in.

“I always get lost in supermarkets – you wouldn’t happen to have a map to the organic tomatoes, would you?”

“Jack and Coke, huh? Maybe I can teach you to drink it straight.”

Whatever. All of this is the equivalent of the famous party opener, “How do you know the host?” It’s safe, it’s non-threatening, and suddenly, you’re just talking. You’ll learn later whether you have mutual interest.

If he doesn’t show interest or offer to take your number, you’ve got your answer.

So stop being so hard on yourself. Apart from looking for a wedding band, the ONLY way you can out a single guy is to let him out himself. If he doesn’t show interest or offer to take your number, you’ve got your answer. Don’t worry about “wasting” time chatting with gay men or taken men – it’s all good practice, and the more comfortable you get bantering with strangers, the more it’ll pay off when they’re actually single and straight.

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68 Comments »Filed Under Dating

68 Responses to “How Do I Start a Conversation with a Straight Single Man?”

Steve 1

Homosexuals are a minority in the US ( 10% of the population tops ), so I am curious as to how it is that a single woman keeps running into gay men when in ordinary places like supermarkets.

Is it a byproduct of living in the city?

In other words, is it the case that most 40 something men are married, and/or living in the suburbs such that they will not be found in urban supermarkets?
$Francisco 2

Taking a wild guess is that gay guys are more open to impromptu conversations than most men. They don’t seem to be as reserved and are more entertaining right from the start; why wouldn’t a single woman feel attracted? Yeah, it sounds stereotypical but it’s a stereotype for a reason.
Lance 3

Linda, you’re doing the right things as far as creating opportunities. I’m a big fan of joining activity groups and clubs (college alumni clubs, co-ed sports clubs, social clubs, etc etc) and just going out to places where large numbers of people socialize. This includes bars and clubs. Roll with you friends, have a good time, and let guys come to you.

Evan is completely right with his points. It’s the guy’s job to open you and “out” himself as straight and available, and it’s simply your job to BE available, interact, and socialize. It’s very much like dancing, where the guy leads. Also, I always recommend dressing attractively and putting your best foot forward. Smile, and if you see a guy you like, shoot him a look.
BigFella 4

BULL CRAP!!!

To the letter writer – take it from a guy you very might be interested in having talk to you….

I’m 42 – just like you, and I’m single. I’m shy by nature. I am still a pretty good looking guy. I have a better physique than probably 95% of men my age. I’m not bragging…just calling it like it is.

I’m straight. I’m not looking to get married. But, I am always looking for quality, avialable woman whom I’m attracted to. And yes, I’d take on a monogomous relationship with a quality woman.

I 100% disagree with some of the advice that has been posted here (hello Lance) that puts you in a passive conversational situation waiting for the guy to initiate, waiting for the guy to ask you out.

Look, there is NOTHING that would make my week more than to have an attractive woman show an interest in me, start a conversation with me, AND if she asked me out, or just intimated that she would like to get to know me better, I would be ecstatic.

Given that I am 42, it does not happen like it used to. But I used to have women (strangers) come on to me all the time in public. I LOVED IT when women showed enough inner confidence to basically say, “fuck it, I like this guy and I’m going to show him I want to be with him.” I admired them for it. I did not think they were sluts, losers, feminists, or desperate.

I’m sick of this bullcrap. This is 2008. Women want equal rights, and I’m all for that. But, when it comes to romance, our society still thinks it’s the man’s job to initiate.

What happens when women don’t take the bull by horns (no pun intended)? They end up single and lonely.

My advice is, go for what you want, but do it in such a way that you don’t come off as desperate (a big turnoff).

Trust me – there’s plenty of attractive guys out there like myself that would LOVE for an attractive woman to show their attraction. And yes, it’s ok for women to start a conversation with an attractive man, and yes, it’s ok for a woman to ask out a man.

Good luck.
Selena 5

BigFella,
Where do guys like you hangout? I’m not adverse to striking up a conversation with someone who looks interesting, but there does seem to be a lack of 40- something men about. At least those without a wife nearby. Where are you guys?
Lance 6

Dude, BigFella, relax. I’d love it also if girls opened me, but I understand and accept why they don’t. There’s two problems with what you’re suggesting. 1) Not every guy is like you, ie cool and muscley, and in fact there are tons of weirdos and psychos that will take advantage of a woman who is too straightforward or overly nice. You can go on the internet and read plenty of online and offline dating horror stories. 2) It’s your JOB as a man to be the confident one and lead the interaction, this is part and parcel of what creates attraction. Like I said, it’s like dancing, and if the chick leads it’s really lame.

With that being said, I do know a couple of chicks who have opened guys and made it work just fine. It’s the exception though, not the rule.
downtowngal 7

Bigfella, I’ve heard many times a guy say how much he would LOVE it if a woman FINALLY made the initiative for once – but the honest truth is that if the same guy really liked the woman HE’D take the main step. Truth is, a lot of guys are really put off by a woman who is too forward. And women are attracted to a guy who shows confidence, that he’s willing to risk taking the initiative.

Or he’d think she’s too easy; sure he might be nice and all but at the end of the day he’s probably not that into her.

Instances when the woman takes the initiative, I’ll bet it was after the guy sent a major signal.
Li-Ann 8

Some thoughts.

Available men over 40 are scarce. Maybe they stay indoors, who knows? Every time I see anyone nice on the street, or meet someone at an event – it ALWAYS ends up that they’re attached. I’m hoping I’m wrong about that and they’re hiding out somewhere, but it has been like that for a long time, and I’m a careful observer. When you finally spot one, there’s some kind of catch – they are single precisely because they want to stay that way, or some other factor that would disqualify them from an actual relationship. You really need to have a positive attitude.

I like Evan’s advice as to initiating conversation. Basically, his entire response was dead on. I wouldn’t strike up conversations just like that, unless it is something very topical like “where’s the nearest laundromat?” Men will take the initiative if they are interested in a relationship, and if a woman is desirable to them. When it gets to the point that you are really working at it – I think the men recognize that.

Unfortunately for many attraction is just not the kind of thing you can come up with a strategic plan and battle order. If he finds you attractive, he will find you attractive whether or not you have good introductory line. The only thing strategic planning can do for a woman is help put her in a place where maybe she might actually be exposed to a man who might like her. After all, she won’t get anywhere if she stays in every night. But she cannot get him to like her. There is nothing you could plan or say to a man that will make him become interested if he did not feel the spark fairly quickly.

So if you are in a great frame of mind, positive, and getting out there, just exposing yourself to lots of potential men could possibly do more for you than chatting with random strangers. Sadly, I have absolutely no idea about what to suggest as to where these venues might be. I suppose the next question should be – if you are looking for men in their 40s, where are the events and activities that these men attend? Or is it just demographic – is this the age group where they are most likely to be attached?
BigFella 9

Selena – “a lack of 40-something men about?” LOL – The Federal Government has put all all men aged 40-49 in a pen at Alcratraz.

Most of us 40somethings are ass-ugly or are married. Probably why you don’t see them about town. You won’t run into many of them at the 21 Club. Most of them are too busy raising families.

To the letter writer (and downtowngal who missed my point). PLEASE DO NOT assume a guy is not interested in you because he does not strike up a conversation with you or will not ask you out if you have good chemistry in an initial conversation.

Some guys are shy. Shyness is nothing to be taken lightly. It can be a serious disorder for millions of Americans (and people around the globe).

And not all shy guys come off as pathetic dweebs as the media might portray them.

It helps if you can spot nonverbal signs of shyness.

downtowngal – don’t take this as a personal attack, but you could not be more wrong with your comments. Try reading some good social pshychology by someone who has studied the dating and mating world. You are seriously misguided as to what really goes on out there socially.

I’ll spare you the details. I’m sure you wouldn’t agree with what I’d have to say about your comments, so if you don’t know by now…

To the letter writer: I cannot possibly believe that I am the only decent looking, nice male out there who would not fully appreciate a woman who was assertive in going after what she wants romantically. You see, some of us don’t live in the 1950s still. Maybe we are a minority, but I truly believe that you can really get what you want socially if you stop the old-style passive approach.

The commentary that you have to stand around like some statue of liberty hoping a decent guy will talk to you and ask you out is bullcrap.

I’m shy, and thank God that some real quality women have probably spotted that I’m shy and have made the move on me. Otherwise, we might not have gotten together. But then again, maybe these women spotted that I don’t think in bullcrap absolutes and I don’t carry around attitudes that women are the weaker sex who needs to sit around waiting for Mr. Dreamy to ask them out.

These comments in this thread make me appreciate the woman who are assertive with me and who do come on to me (in a respectful way) even more. Who wants to wait for Donna Reed or June Cleaver.

For the guys out there who think that THE MAN must do all the work -that it’s his “JOB,” all I can do is LOL. It tells me that you are not very socially desirable. For the record, many women noadways are incredibly forward, and can be very aggressive.

Maybe try a new mouthwash.

And to all a good night….
BigFella 10

Selena- sorry, I forgot to answer your question.

I can’t say where 40somethings who are available hang out. No doubt, most are attached. But there are many who aren’t.

As for me, I’m a lone wolf. I don’t run around in packs. I think that’s another reason why women feel comfortable approaching me. I don’t hang out in guy packs. I’m comfortable traveling light.

I’ve found that women are forward in all different places. I don’t hang out in bars or clubs. Women approach me in pedestrian “every day” places. So, I’m quite surprised to hear people here say that doesn’t happen. I guess I’ve lived in a different universe.

By the way, I’m nice looking, but definately not a pretty boy model, and while I’m in great shape, I’m not magazine material.

Maybe there’s more to it than looks.

Ladies – we men need more assertiveness out there. Don’t listen to what the dudes or your girlfriends tell you. Go for what you want with the guys. If a guy is so insecure that he feels HE has to take the lead with the woman, he’s not worth it.

There are guys such as myself who will appreciate your making the first move. And we’ll make it worth your while.

Li-Ann – great commentary.
Kat Wilder 11

It isn’t just talking to men organically, it’s knowing how to talk to all people that way, male or female, young or old. If you can remove the sexual aspect to it, you become more yourself.

Then, if he responds, you can add the flirt.

If you can remind yourself that inside we’re all pretty much the same wanting someone to see us for who we are, and like us for who we are it makes it easier.
Evan Marc Katz 12

By putting it on women, Big Fella, you’re trying to rewrite societal conventions. And most women haven’t gotten the memo. On the other hand, you know what you have to do. You said it yourself.

“I LOVED IT when women showed enough inner confidence to basically say, fuck it, I like this guy and I’m going to show him I want to be with him.

So, how about you show enough inner confidence to basically say, “fuck it, I like this gal and I’m going to show her I want to be with her.” Instead of doing what you’re doing now: telling women to break through your shyness because you don’t have the guts to talk to them.

Hate to challenge you, man. Appreciate that you’re a reader. But the surest path to change is to do something different yourself, not to wait for the world to come around to your position.
Lynn 13

I do not believe in the *scarcity theory* that there are no worthwhile, attractive and available men out there. I am a 41 year old single woman and I do agree it is harder to meet potential mates, then say when I was 21; and I agree with Li Ann that it takes concerted effort and a positive, resilient attitude. However I think it is a matter of really going beyond the surface of what we think we want, and finding out that the guy writing to you on match.com who is 5′-6″ tall actually is pretty sexy in person, or that the guy with the receding hairline is confident and funny, or that the handsome shy guy opens up when you get a couple of drinks in him ; ). In order to find these hidden gems, it takes more “work” than just meeting the handsome fraternity brother at the keg party when we were in college. But I think there is ultimately more depth, and ultimately greater rewards for being open to getting to know a person on more than a superficial level before ruling them out.

(BTW, I just broke up with the 5′-6″ guy after 6 months; our timing was off, so I am looking again Thanks to Linda and Evan and all others for this post; it;s my favorite yet from Evan’s blog.
dee-lite 14

Hi there
I agree with Evan and I can speak from personal experience. Yes, I know it’s a single data point, but here’s my story…
I’m a 25 year-old pretty attractive gal, e.g. since becoming single, half of the time I’m introduced to a single guy, either the guy asks me out or a few days later the introducer tells me the guy is interested and asks me if I’m interested as well.
To this date, I’ve asked guys out on numerous occasions. Only 2 of them said yes. One of them was the most painfully shy guy when it came to approaching women. The other one told me it was a nice surprise and that he didn’t approach me before I did because he thought I wasn’t interested in him.
The others? While some people are flattered by a cute young woman approaching them, they are flattered…at best. I re-iterate, it’s only a single data point, it might very well be the way I approach them that they find too aggresive, in some cases they may not be attracted in the first place etc.
Nevertheless, I feel guys still would prefer to think they are making the first move. I agree with Kat Wilder in that if you can strike up a casual talk easily, he will most likely send stronger signals if he’s interested. A surprising exception to this is a friend of mine who is model handsome. Girls always woo him, girls always ask him for a phone number. He is very happy and doesn’t think any less of the girl who approaches him first.. probably because he knows he’s hot stuff and is understanding of come-ons. plus he doesn’t need to move out of his comfort zone.
so while I sincerely wish one day BigFella’s wishful world of pursuer women will be the norm (since I obviously prefer pursuing to being pursued) I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
BigFella 15

Evan – sounds like more than a little sour grapes to me.

I never said women have to do all the work.

Women approach me. Not as often as they used to, but they make it easy for me.

Sorry you and other guys have to do all the dirty work.
Victoria 16

To BigFella,

I don’t like what you are saying at all. First of all it’s you aggressive attitude that puts me off, second of all it’s LOL in 40% of your comments, you are 42, right? I just thought lols would be left behind by the age of 42…OK, now – I am very attractive and young (31), but need a man and so I go out, but I go out because I like to go out, not necessarily to grab a man. I am also very particular who I’d give my number to, but I am a nice, unpretencious person and talk to everyone. So I don’t care how shy you (men) are if you can’t come up to a woman you like I don’t like you already. A man has to be a man – very simple. I am assertive and forward in a lot of ways, but I WANT a man to want to come up to me. He could be great looking, but if he doesn’t have the guts to come up to me I think “what a loser” – I’m just used to those brilliant, beautiful go getters – everything run/ran smoothly in their empires, not just the ladies aspect. So you are 42 now and still single – I don’t know, maybe the main reason for that is you are too insecure to come up to a really cool looking lady, huh? Thus you limit your chances…It is still a man’s job, no matter what you say.
Markus 17

I’m 38…lol!
BigFella 18

Victoria -Seriously, for you to call someone else immature. I would guess by your post that you are a teenager.

For you to think that if a man is shy he is not a real man – that tells me a lot about you.

Thankfully, there are many, many liberated, sophisticated women out there who do not have such a high school mentality toward the sexes.

And by the way, dear. There are literally thousands of hot women out there who will agressively purse men they want.

Like I said, I’m LOL at all this stuff. I have gotten plenty of approaches in my life. And I still get the occaissional approaches from college age girls.

You see, many women do not hold your views. You can’t tell me otherwise.

This reminds me of a old friend who kept telling me, “You know the coke commercials where the girl walks past the guy and then turns around and smiles to him? That never happens in real life – it’s a myth.”

I always laughed inside at his comment. Because many times I experienced that nonverbal signal from women in my life.

My friend assumed that just because he never experienced it, it had to be a myth.

Similiar to your argument. You think that just because you and other stone age women will not approach men, then it’s a myth.

Even at 40 I had young 20 somethings coming on to me. That was my universe. Hope you’re happy in yours.

It’s slowed down recently, but I’m forever grateful to the women who made the first move.

And perhaps you didn’t read my former post. I am single becuase I want to be.

Revenge of the shy guys!!!

Markus – LOL at our LOL.
Steve 19

Linda – the best way to start a conversation with a straight, single man over 40 is with “Hello”. After that talk to the man as if he weren’t a man you were interested in, just talk to him like it was an ordinary situation. Evan, as usual, gave great advice. Follow up on every lead he gave you.

I would like to agree with BigFellas views, but I just can’t.

I was raised in a family dense with feminists. Even for a man like me, if a woman is too forward in a dating situation, if she “tries to be the man” or take “the lead” as in dancing it just makes me uncomfortable.

That seems to be the case for many other men out there.

As Grouch Marx said:

Who are you going to believe? Me or your own eyes?

It may be wrong, but Evan is dead on when he advises people to be in touch with the reality of dating rather than what we would like the ideal to be. His point about gauging the your options and the options of who you are interested is valuable.

I know it sounds bad, but there are many more women who will not be uncomfortably forward, who act like the software I was born with is designed to handle. I will go with them first if I can’t overridde my discomfort. I do try to short circuit that BS, but sometimes I just can’t.

Linda, Selena et al. If you are ever in the Washington D.C. area and would like to spend the evening with an over 40, in decent shape, single, straight, non-neurotic man please let me know.

Steve
Lance 20

Appears we’ve hit a nerve!

Again, I agree with Evan’s response. Asking for women to do the opening and “dirty work” (bigfella’s word) is asking to change societal norms, and in fact it’s much deeper and goes against our core programming.

Personally, I love opening and flirting, ie leading the dance, and I get a real thrill out of it. I used to be shy too, but I changed all that about a year ago. Now I understand that actualizing the male role is very much a part of what creates attraction and sexual tension.

I’m in my 30′s, so I can’t tell you exactly where the 40-somethings are hanging out, but I suggest do wider online searches. Instead of confining yourself to a 10 miles radius, try 100 or 200 miles or more. Folks in their 40′s have the means to initiate and maintain relationships that are far more distant.

I met a beautiful American woman based in Amsterdam who was actively searching for a mate within 1000 miles. She was a well-off professional, so she definitely had the means to close the distance. No, I didn’t get with her.
Selena 21

C’mon now! You 40-something single guys still haven’t shared WHERE we might run into you. If you’re not in bars, clubs and we’re missing you at the grocery store, then where should we go? LOL!

Steve-
I live in S. FL and don’t plan to be in D.C., but thanks for the invite anyway! You should like someone fun to hangout with.
BigFella 22

Lynn,

I liked reading your comments.

No doubt, the pool of single people drops off sharply once people are over 40.

There are two problems for people who are looking for a serious relationship in their 40s (and older). The first one I just mentioned- many people are married off.

The second problem is once people are in their 40s, they have a load of baggage. To people in their 20s, life is still fresh, and a lot of people do not have a lot of baggage yet.

So for people like Linda who are looking for love, it’s really tough. First you have a much smaller pool. Second, available people are more than likely divorced, and with that comes ‘stuff’ many times.

Selena – there’s no shortage of attractive people in SoFlo. Men in their 40s have to go to the grocery store, the Home Depot, the restaurants, the convenience store, the strip clubs (just kidding). They’re out there.

The problem is that because they are in their 40s, you probably assume they are taken (which in many cases they are).

YOu might try joining some clubs, joining a fitness club, casual sports league, church group, etc.

And be on the lookout for fate trying to help you. When your girlfriend asks you to go line dancing and you want to say ‘no,’ because it’s not your bag, consider that there might be a guy there who will be your next husband.

Good luck.
Selena 23

I’m not really looking for a husband BigFella, but hey, thanks for the suggestions. Home Depot…hmm. Possibilities.
BigFella 24

Selena – better watch yourself.

Many a woman who was looking for Mr. Goodbar wound up finding a husband.
J 25

Ok, I know I will probably be sorry I did this, but I am going to have to comment on some of BigFellas comments –

I try really hard not to take anything I read personally – other than reading to see how it might apply to me or what I could learn.

I don’t believe this blog is set up as a means or a way for other people to personally attack or judge others. Ideally it isn’t, in any case. And I admire and respect people, and their opinions, less when they do so. Though I do understand why someone would take the bate and respond if they felt someone else had jumped all over them specifically – and/or if someone actually did.

I also know full well that Evan can take care of himself and doesn’t need me or anyone else to come to his verbal rescue, or even, defense.

Partly because I don’t feel he has anything to “defend”. His blog, his free advice that he could easily be charging us a helluva lot of money to dispense – (provided we could afford it – many of you surely can, I unfortunately : ) cannot), and his take on any given situation based on his personal experience, interactions with his clients, research, time working with dating sites and other things as well.

BigFella’s assertion that, “Evan – sounds like more than a little sour grapes to me” is what is bullcrap, in my humble opinion.

If you don’t care for the advice Evan gives or his opinion, then you have every right to say so, but is sounds like you are passing judgment on Evan as a person and as a man – one whom you have never even met. And that isn’t what this blog is here for. None of us should be judging other people or even really, their actions or what have you in their personal lives. The key here is the judging part.

Judging how you feel about what someone has or hasn’t said, seeing if you agree or disagree and having a friendly debate – to maybe learn something or decide that what you believe, feel, know still holds true FOR YOU after reading, participating or whatever – that is what it is here for.

As to your comment, “Sorry you and other guys have to do all the dirty work.” That comes off as very egotistical and catty to me at the same time and frankly, it is also offensive – to me. If you think approaching women or having to make an effort is “the dirty work”, then I hope I never have the misfortune of approaching you some day.

Yeah, I know that is harsh and to be fair, I don’t know you either. I don’t get the impression that I’d want to from what you have posted. I’ll take your word for it that you are a good looking guy, in pretty good shape and that “Even at 40 I had young 20 somethings coming on to me. That was my universe. Hope you’re happy in yours.” The second part of this is just snarky and “na na na na na na” as far as I’ve concerned.

If you are truly so happy in your universe, then why read a blog about improvement?

You live in your universe and the rest of us live in ours. What is true for or to US, is true for or to us, whether it reflects what is true for or to you or not. It is bullcrap, in your opinion.

You made some points that I agree with and said some things that were encouraging to women (again, in my opinion) – such as stating that you were grateful to women who had taken the bull by the horns with you, and saying if you like someone and you want to get to know them, then do so. You then went on to make some comments in several posts that seemed to very much contradict what you said previously. We all do that from time to time and I am not calling you on that.

I do think to tell someone you are not attacking them and then to finish your sentence with “I’m sure you wouldn’t agree with what I’d have to say about your comments, so if you don’t know by now” comes across as very condescending.

As does telling someone they should “Try reading some good social pshychology by someone who has studied the dating and mating world. You are seriously misguided as to what really goes on out there socially.”

I have never picked on someone for misspelling something – though I have apologized on here for my own typos – nor do I take it upon myself to publicly correct misspelled words or bad grammar – so I am breaking a hard fast rule of mine. Before you start telling other people how to live their lives and telling them in affect that they are clueless or stupid after reading two or three comments on a message board – [which is pretty close to "social psychology on mating and dating from someone who knows (read Evan's bio)" (no, he isn't a psychologist, but that doesn't discredit him in this regard as far as I am concerned)], and telling them to do something that you don’t have a rat’s ass clue about whether they have already done or not, you might try to spell “psychology” correctly.

I am not dissing shy guys by any means and I am not saying the guy should always have to approach. I have made moves before – including asking guys out whom I have then dated for a long stretch of time. One of whom I am still friends with 14 years after the fact. I have also made first moves with a less than good outcome to a disastrous outcome – at least in terms of it coming to anything good.

“You see, many women do not hold your views. You can’t tell me otherwise.” – I don’t get the impression that anyone can tell you anything – but you sure do feel like you can tell them that they are wrong (which you did in specific words), that they have a high school mentality because they don’t agree with you, that they are immature – which is vastly different from saying you believe their views, actions or whatever to be immature (which is still rude, but you are entitled to your own opinions and we do all put ourselves out there by commenting on a public message board), and telling us what we think by saying things like, “You think that just because you and other stone age women will not approach men, then it’s a myth.”

Selena said it hadn’t been especially true for her in her experience. And she asked a good natured question, looking for some honest feedback on where to find men who might be of a certain age and who might also be wanting a relationship and who would be amenable to being approached by a woman.

At no point did she profess to be speaking for every woman on the planet or even every woman on the board, and neither has Evan either (as far as saying or implying he speaks for all men, all of us, or whatever). If you want to generalize and lump everyone whose experiences and opinions differ from yours into a big group and view us poorly or say we believe in myths, fine. But please do not take it upon yourself to do so and then expect us to just go along. Because if we did so, that would make us the sheep you seem to already see us as.

“And by the way, dear. There are literally thousands of hot women out there who will agressively ‘purse’ men they want.” -

Um, lets count how many times you used the phrases “attractive woman” and “hot women” or woman (or something similar). You are ok with it if it is some really sexy chick who hits on you. You used an awful lot of qualifiers – which is cool. You do what works for you and respond to whomever you wish by whatever qualifications WORK FOR YOU. But you partially proved your myth theory by making it so clear who you would be open to hearing from. Not just any Jane off the street.

And so do women who “purse” the men they want hit them over the head with their pocket books? ; ) (please take that tongue in cheek way it was meant)

I acknowledge others have made some personal comments to you as well. And I guess I just did too. Felt they needed to be said so that people whom yours were directed at wouldn’t be tempted to say something unkind or whatever in response. OR in their own defense, of which they shouldn’t need to vociferously defend themselves for voicing their opinion.
J 26

It is hard for many of us to meet people who fit our specific needs and they ours, no matter where we live. But I do think some cities and places more readily lend themselves to doing so and do have more approachable people in public places (men and women).

And I do believe age can be a factor in this. It has been my experience as well that it is harder to come by guys who are anywhere from about 35-45 or a little above that are available. I too have found most I do meet are either married, married with kids, or very attached. OR separated (I am fine with divorced but do not date someone who is still married in my opinion – broke my rule once and paid for it dearly when he basically said he couldn’t stand what he was doing to his future ex-wife by dating me after he said she told him to date). I live in Atlanta and have not come across too many men who turned out to be gay, but I also do most of my “meeting and greeting” of men through online dating. I do have friends who are gay.

The few times I have talked to guys in public (that I spoke to first), it doesn’t go anywhere beyond that moment. I always wanted to be one of those women that men approached in an unusual place or just out of the blue. Atlanta is supposedly a big “pick someone up in the grocery store town (one in Buckhead actually has Singles mixers in the store for that purpose – but it is said it happens here normally too).

So it finally happened – one time a guy seriously hit on me at the grocery store – followed me from aisle to aisle and wasn’t taking no for an answer. I stayed there an extra hour and kept looking for him to make sure he wasn’t going to follow me home. NOT VAIN! And not thinking I’m all that. Just cognizant that he could have still been in the parking lot. I did run into him late one night at a 24 hour Walgreens, and he again followed me to my car and said I had promised to go out with him. Scared the crap out of me.

Some people mentioned it is ok to be a female and make the approach, as long as you don’t appear desperate. I would agree with that, but think it can be very hard to know what will possibly come off as desperate to any given guy in any given situation (beyond the really obvious markers of such ; ) ). I do think women are a bit more prone to take it personally if they get shot down or think something is wrong with them if the guy isn’t interested.

Not meaning to speak for the rest of you out there – just something I have observed with many of my female friends – both in personal face to face situations and also, when they have made the first move or if they have Winked or emailed a guy online first thru a dating site. I know it is true for me.

I give due credit to any man or woman out there who “goes for it” as long as it is done respectfully and doesn’t make the other person feel markedly uncomfortable or scared : ) in a bad way. You can also feel uncomfortable because you are really interested but not sure of yourself, him, or the situation or it is new to you or whatever.

I think I too have looked for signs to try to see if someone is single, free, and all that – and I found Evan’s advice to make very good sense.

You can always look for a wedding ring = but a lot of men don’t wear them anymore. Not necessarily to cheat (though some men and women do that too), but because maybe they don’t own one or didn’t chose to exchange them. Less likely to seriously chat up a married guy that way.

I agree with you all that Linda is doing the right thing by trying different places, online dating, etc. and putting herself out there. She is being proactive, rather than passive and/or reactive – and no matter how you are proactive – whether it is putting yourself out there and putting your best foot forward (as Lance suggested) or doing the approaching and asking, you are still making a real effort instead of just waiting for it to happen. I didn’t get the impression that Evan was going so far as to say that you should just wait or be totally passive.

Being available and making that known through your actions still counts as doing something on your behalf to me.

An Aside:
As to Steve : )
- While the offer wasn’t made to me, and maybe wouldn’t be anyway after my post about BigFella – for the record, I’m sorry I don’t live in FL – (am in Atlanta, GA and am about to turn 37) because you do sound like fun (as one of the ladies said) and you also sound like a very stand up guy with a great attitude and a lot to offer. I get a lot of perspective from reading your posts and usually also agree with you. Even when I don’t, I still appreciate the way you word things and where you seem to be coming from.

And to Lance : ) – You too seem like a guy who really knows how to express himself and can make your point(s) without feeling the need to put other people or there opinions, feelings, values down.

Both of you seem like guys who would be a good catch. I hope some lucky lady finds you soon if she hasn’t already.

Not implying or saying that other men on here aren’t worthy or aren’t good/great guys.

Just wanted to send Kudos to the two aforementioned and also, say thank you.
J 27

Oh, and I have to agree with Lance when it comes to dancing … I am a girl and I still sometimes accidentally try to lead, maybe because I have trouble just trusting myself and letting go and letting someone else guide me, maybe because I am not coordinated and so afraid to stumble – figuratively as well as literally, and feel I won’t mess up as much if I am directing where I am going.

Really hate it that I do that sometimes with dancing. It really isn’t the same at all. I’m not a great dancer, but when a guy is skillful at leading, it can be a wonderful experience – either just for what it is if you are friends but not more, or if you are only partners for the dance, or it can make you so much closer to someone you are in a relationship with. I think it can also help you learn to be more in concert with one another overall.

And it sure is a lot of fun. As well as being a real pleasure to be in a strong (read: firm) hold and embrace and being able to just go with the flow.

No matter what the gender and/or traditional roles are, I guess it boils down to what does or doesn’t feel right to each individual vs. how it feels to the other person (if not on exactly same wavelength, then at least compatible) and also, is whatever feels right to you actually also working for you to get the results, partner, life you want.

Not many men or women out there who are into dancing anymore. Seems they too are harder to find : )
Victoria 28

To BigFella again,

J said it perfectly, so there’s almost nothing left for me to add, but since you responded to me personally I will just say this: it’s you who come across as having a teenage mentality, you even insist on using LOL – good for you, BigFella, just go on like this. Also you come across as a very insecure guy. What I was saying was that you are just rude and not very bright when it comes to interacting with women. I don’t know how women can find passive men like you attractive or interesting. I don’t and that’s what I was stating. I wanted to express my opinion and the only reason I waned to do so was because of your remarks like “bull crap”, “sour grapes” etc. You are just wrong, mister BigFella – admit it, oh no, you NEVER will, men like you have such strong inflated egos that the only role they choose to play in this Universe is the passive and boring one and so they choose to remain single because what can they ever give or want to give to another human being? They are so incredibly selfish. And then there are those fantastic, generous, courageous men, maybe a bit shy, but they will at least make an effort to approach the woman who takes their breath away…and sometimes they end up having it all.
English is not my native language – you can probably guess THAT by my post.
BigFella 29

My God, J – you’ve got issues.

Catch your breath.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I couldn’t get beyond the first couple sentences of your first post.

You wasted your life with the other stuff. Why you would waste so much time attacking a stranger on the I-net is beyond me.

But, it’s dysfunctional to say the least.

Have a good day.
J 30

Okay, my point would have been better made had I not spelled bait “bate”. I swear I do edit. I just have a terrible propensity for transposing homophones occasionally and not catching ’til after submitting. Though “bate” isn’t even a word unless is short for rebate or the singular form of “Norman Bates”. Sigh…
J 31

*Make that, I’m sorry I don’t live in D.C.
Lance 32

Hey, thanks J! Your comment added value as well, could have been a main post. FYI, I’m a gemini, I like long walks on the beach, surfing, and women who know how to flirt.
Steve 33

Selena, J;

Thanks for the nice compliments
Steve 34

Some people mentioned it is ok to be a female and make the approach, as long as you don’t appear desperate. I would agree with that, but think it can be very hard to know what will possibly come off as desperate to any given guy in any given situation (beyond the really obvious markers of such ; ) ). I do think women are a bit more prone to take it personally if they get shot down or think something is wrong with them if the guy isn’t interested.

Not true, we bleed red just like you do .

Think of it as pregnancy suit for women. You know, those fake heavy stomachs they have for men to wear to see what being pregnant is like so they can learn some empathy.

I think once in every single woman’s life she should find the most intimidating social situation she can think of and approach the most handsome guy there. You know, the kind whose pants fit. Repeat 3 times. You will learn more about men and the male experience than you will by reading a metric ton of advice books, even the ones approved by Oprah. You will also have a great story to share and bond over with your male friends.

J…, on a serious, note, many men find approaching women a bit tough. Don’t get me wrong, it is fun, but it is an acquired taste like cigarettes. Every guy at some point in his life has to learn to overcome the fear you have.

Only practice makes approaching attractive people will make that fear go away. However, there are two things, that if you repeat them to yourself often will help take a bit of the sting out:

1. The truth.

You have nothing to lose. If you get turned down the next day your friends will still be your friends. Small children will still smile at you. Cats and dogs will still nuzzle you. The things you enjoy in life will still enjoyable. You have nothing to lose and you can’t get hurt unless you chose to be hurt.

2. Anytime you have a doubtful thought tell yourself
“I’m really excited for him to find out what a great gal I am, it would be such a shame for him if he misses out”
verbosity 35

Believe it or not, I’m not going to directly jump into the fray that seems to be occurring. I’m going to try and answer Linda’s (OP) letter. First some general observations, then more specifics.

I’m going to speak my thoughts about men 35+ who are single, not married men or gay men. I’m neither and cannot identify as such. Linda wrote, ” m dating online, but I’d also like to meet people in other ways. Yes, there are the singles events, the frozen food aisle during off-peak hours, etc. But for other situations I may find myself in – elevators, gyms, coffee shops – do you have any suggestions on how I could strike up a breezy, innocuous conversation and still be able to “out” single men? The “Wow, nice jacket – did your partner pick that out for you?” line doesn’t seem too subtle.”

It appears Linda wants (1) more places she can meet potential suitors, and (2) how to strike up conversations that will ‘flush’ available men (ie. – not gay/married).

In an effort to answer (1), that question seems fairly obvious, but not easy to implement always. For example, do you like pets? Do you have one? Try dog park or there are some meetup.com groups for similarly situated people. Try meetup.com. I haven’t but know it is out there. If you live in a place with a higher % of gay men than most other areas (SF Castro anyone?), try adjacent places. Try sports bars (spare me the stereotype lecture, all). In short, to use a fishing analogy, if you want to fish for trout, go to a trout stream (or hatchery to REALLY increase odds), not a pond where bass are known to be caught.

To answer (2) is more difficult. I cannot offer perspective other my own. Being nearly late 30′s now, I still look like I’m 12, and have no trouble meeting and talking to women. I am, however, usually clueless regarding picking up on signals from women if there is interest, unless those signals are very huge. This may be an issue. Men do not often pick up signals since they are usually the ones who have to do all the chasing and much signaling themselves.

Another factor depends on where some of these interactions occur. For example a guy is not as likely to initiate contact in places he frequents where many of his friends and business associates frequent. Why? Many do not want to be seen as trolling around incessantly to their friends, business associates (people talk – reputations do matter). Also, wise guys employ the concept of “Don’t s*&t where you eat.” Often used for discouraging work romances, this means that if something goes awry where both of you frequent, someone will often have to change their program. Not fun.

Lastly, some guys, while open to relationships, simply want to just ‘do their thing’ in their lives, not killing themselves to seek and/or give women too much attention (ie. – their minds are elsewhere).

So what’s a gal to do? First, realize it’s a numbers game. It is for men too who usually initiate contact with women. It sucks to think of it that way because it involves a fair % of rejection usually, but is how it is. Also, regarding striking up conversations with gay men, so what? Perhaps look at it as practice, not a waste of time.

Secondly, and more practically, in addition to going to the better pond/stream, be attentive, and patient. What I mean by this is that men often are clueless to all but the most obvious signals. For example, I have a great big friendly dog. Women often talk about the dog to me 1st, then transition. (An aside – if you are in a heavily gay community, I’ve found men with toy dogs are more likely to be gay or married, so look for labradors, goldens, great danes, etc, lol). Pay attention to what he’s reading (bookstore/coffee shop) perhaps make a comment on that. Essentially, you are going through the same thought process that nearly every man has to go through. Lastly, directness works wonderfully. (I saw you here and wanted to say hi…”). Even the densest man knows this signal. If he doesn’t, run.

I agree with BigFella’s sentimnets somewhat. It’s great having women take the initiative. Just keep in mind that it IS a dance. And until you know your dance partners and all the dances, you often step on their toes and have yours stepped on much also…

$0.02
verbosity 36

Also, J wrote some good stuff regarding the concerns women have in daily life, such a potential stalkers.

Further she wrote, “It has been my experience as well that it is harder to come by guys who are anywhere from about 35-45 or a little above that are available. I too have found most I do meet are either married, married with kids, or very attached. OR separated” I agree with her, and would like to offer it is true for on the other side as well. Personally, I think it is a terrible idea to date someone separated (NOT a slam at J, just opining) because they often haven’t dealt with the issues surrounding their current breakup mentally. That can only spell trouble for the non-separated person.

I’d like to offer an addition to J’s perspective – I think over 1/2 the men in this demographic are divorced (if you go by divorce stats). So, many available (non-married/gay) men in the 35-45 range are spending more time working and furthering their career in this age range. My belief, based upon experience of friends and self, is that they spend more energies on work and career after such an occurrence. Therefore, they aren’t going to go looking for opportunities to meet women. This may answer some ladies’ questions about where many of these men are – at work.

As an additional note, several posters brought up the issue of divorced people in the 35+ category, and the potential ‘baggage’ they possess. With the divorce rate what it is, people of both sexes are going to run across people who are divorced. I personally will not get involved with anyone who divorced and hasn’t sought/getting counseling to deal with the ‘baggage’ from said divorce. I have (though never married), and think it is a healthy thing for anyone to do. I think it increases your odds of finding someone healthy who is healthy for you. Just an opinion…
Selena 37

I started reading this blog because I loved Evan’s humor and practical approach to dating. I’m sometimes amazed at the deadly seriousness of some of the commenters. Gosh, we’re not writing for a grade here, why can’t we lightheartedly banter about our experiences and observations without all the dire heaviness of opinion?

Sign me,
The formerly shy Selena
downtowngal 38

BigFella – “… you could not be more wrong with your comments. Try reading some good social pshychology by someone who has studied the dating and mating world. You are seriously misguided as to what really goes on out there socially.”

I’m talking about millions of years of evolution – I’m not sure what you’re referring to.
hunter 39

..hhmmm, all that goes on in Atlanta…hmmmhh…
hunter 40

….most men know better than to approach a woman that is not smiling…….
hunter 41

…men gather at hardware stores, auto part stores, car swap meets, at raceways, car shows, football games, coffee shops(usually early, in the morning, for breakfast)…….
Steve 42

J, Selena;

Thanks for the nice compliments
Hadley Paige 43

Selena writes: You 40-something single guys still haven’t shared WHERE we might run into you. If you’re not in bars, clubs and we’re missing you at the grocery store, then where should we go?

My suggestion>> I crew on a racing boat out of Greenwich, Ct. Being in the sailing community for a while now, I can tell you based upon my observations, the demographics for women of a certain socio-economic class would very attractive. In my neck of the woods, the sport is overwhelmingly populated by men (97%+); who for the most part are educated and professional w many quite well to do. These big boats (I crew on a 47ftr w a crew of 8) often are short of crew and would be happy to take on people who would like to try out the sport.

The races take about 3 hrs and there is generally food and wine after the race either at the club that hosted the event; or on the boat w the crew. It’s very civilized & charming and the conversation flows quite easily. I am sure that women who would ordinarily attract this type of man would do well int his environment.

If you are interested in checking out the scene, you need only call up your local boat club, tell them you are interested in checking out the sport. They will likely put you in contact w captains who would be happy to take you aboard for a race and see how you do. Once you have crewed a bit you’ll meet lots of men from the other boats at the club. (suggestion: keep to the bigger boats w larger crews)
BigFella 44

You let “J” go on a 5 paragraph attack rant but won’t allow me to respond.

Just as I suspected, “J” is your girlfriend (or boyfriend).

It’s your little puppet show.
Zach55 45

Many of the more popular internet dating websites is packed with young singles that are searching to make a permanent match, or searching for fun and sex only. Those singles that are a bit more mature are no longer into pretenses and games, and are typically searching for some comfortable and reliable companionship. Most seniors searching to find their happiness on senior dating website BoomerMingle.com are successful.
J 46

I don’t have any affiliation with anyone else on this message board – not Evan, nor Selena. Evan already has a very cool, intelligent, and savvy girlfriend (loved her article, btw, Evan – especially the part about “mulligans”!) who he seems to be very happy with and has no need to be dating me. I am female and straight, so I am nobody’s boyfriend either. Neither am I anyone’s puppet.

You certainly have a right to dislike or disagree with my post, and yes, it probably was way too long.

Though I still stand by what I said and MY thoughts and feelings based on what I read and on my personal experiences – no one else’s. Though I do get great perspective from the blog, from Evan and many of the other posters. And that does sometime factor into what I write.

Am trying to be more succinct after leaving epic-length comments and posting part of an article twice in succession by accident.
J 47

Just got a chance to read some comments I missed.

Thank you for the suggestions and perspective, Steve! Very good advice and I will make sure to take it either the next time I venture out, or the next time am feeling really good about myself and willing to take a chance – whether that is in person or just making initial contact with someone who seems awesome online. And to work on having more of that mindset.

Am currently just working on liking and loving myself a bit more and getting it more together with my job situation, and continuing to learn so that I know I am in a really good place, thereby giving myself a bit more chance at creating something successful and lasting that he too would want to hold onto -whomever “he” might be. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. And you are most welcome. : )

Yes, I know it isn’t easy for you all either – why I always write thank you notes (via email) and do my best to be kind if someone isn’t for me and make sure it sounds like it is me not him – though, it is usually, both of us – since it takes two to make or break anything or to be compatible. Actually just read a piece on the Empathy Belly yesterday – almost sounds worse than being pregnant ; )

Even at 36, my neighbor’s great Pyhrenese, Hadley, is one of the huge joys in my life. She is very uninhibited about showing how much she loves you and is a huge sweetheart. You can’t have a bad day when she is around. Can find happiness in little stuff, and it carries you through.

Also agree with what you posted most recently as well, Verbosity, and appreciate your sharing more of your personal experiences. I look really young for my age too – if I read that right : )

Lance – aww, thanks ; )
I’m a Taurus (I’m sure you could have guessed), write about the beach more than I walk on it (though that is nice too), lived in CA – though the only surfing I have done to date is on the internet, I love vintage jewelry, history and learning things. Also, helping people (I bake cookies and pumpkin bread to give away, though not PollyAnna by any means). Also love a guy who has a way with words and who expresses himself well in thoughts and actions (this is reciprocal). Flirting is fun.

I didn’t see your other comment BigFella – about where to look for single men of a certain age – before you told me I have issues, that I have wasted my life, and other things – it has merit too and I also appreciate you sharing where to meet men.

Everyone has issues and baggage – the key is how we each deal with our own and finding someone else who is ok with ours and who is dealing with his or her own baggage more or less successfully and has issues that you yourself can understand and be okay with.

Thanks to all of the guys who shared here and gave their thoughts as well as ideas on good places to meet and interact with men.
J 48

Cool idea about volunteering to crew, Hadley. : )

I might have to use that in one of my books since I myself get seasick. Great idea though and not one I would have thought of.
J 49

No affiliations email was to BigFella – in case it didn’t follow right after his post
J 50

Re: Verbosity and not a slam at J -

“Personally, I think it is a terrible idea to date someone separated (NOT a slam at J, just opining) because they often haven’t dealt with the issues surrounding their current breakup mentally. That can only spell trouble for the non-separated person.”

No worries, Verbosity – I in no way took your comment that way. Nor would I have. Partly because of how it was worded, but more so because I learned that lesson the hard way. And I happen to agree with you 100%! : )

I always felt that way, and only broke my rule and dated a man who was separated and had (supposedly) filed for divorce after agreeing to correspond with him, against my better judgment. I was at a low point in my romantic life, (one of only a couple, fortunately) and he was oh so charming and seemed oh so into me.

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t. I think it was more about seeing if he could get women to want him (at that time) – not just physically, but emotionally as well. To test the waters and build his self confidence without investing himself until a later date. It seemed very real at the time as did the hate male he sent me saying that I imagined the whole relationship. I didn’t imagine some of what he said, but clearly believed it because I wanted to. In hindsight, was way too early for that stuff to be said and have true validity, and even if he had been genuine, it would have been too soon for him to know his own mind.

I fell for stuff like, “You are so warm, I bet you don’t even own a winter coat – because you don’t need one.” UGH!!!! Did I mention I was at a real low point? ; )

And you are totally correct, it didn’t benefit me. Maybe it did him, maybe it didn’t. Only time I have really felt screwed over in a relationship, but even then, I had to acknowledge my part in it. And I did.

Thanks again for the perspective, Verbosity.

People who are separated are truly unavailable – no matter what they might think. I still get sent men who state Separated on their profile – shows up in the thumbnail, but I don’t open those, no matter how good they might look.

I’d say they are off the table for consideration if you want a chance at having them for good. Until maybe 6 to 12 months after the divorce is finalized. But that is just me.
verbosity 51

Damn, I miss boats Hadley… What kinda boat? My personal fave is a Hinckley Sou’wester (Sailing). I need to get outta the desert, which is overrun right now!!!! Damn Super Bowl/golf people
Jennifer 52

Here’s my take on it…Evan’s advice was great. If it’s men like BigFella that love it when women make the first move…I may never speak to a man first again

In all seriousness, you seriously devalue any merit your comments may have had when you speak in absolutes and are rude and obnoxious about it. Nothing ’1950′s’ about that. What good is taking the time to make a point if no one will listen because of the way you delivered it? Sounds like a waste of time to me.
J 53

Oh -
Woe, Big Fella, is me.
Pick a post to apply it to. ; )
J 54

Ooh …
Woo, Steve, is you … : )
and me too someday when I get the guts to take your advice (comment/Post #34)

Sounds like, Woo hoo, too.

If being so hasn’t paid off lately or quite in the way you’d like, I think it will soon.
J 55

Verbosity – really got a lot out of several of your comments here – particularly #34. Particularly the dancing and stepping on toes part.

For me, the dog thing is a touch more tricky. Because a woman may very well come over and show interest in your dog so she can then show interest in you. And I am sure this does happen a lot. Pets can be a good way to get closer to someone or to make it easier for either of you to make a move.

Though if you do get to the canoodling stage in any capacity – snuggling on the coach, kissing, or doing the horizontal hula, the pet can then start to get in the way a bit ; ) Especially if said pet has attention deficit – i.e, feels he or she has a deficit of attention (being paid to them).

But some of us are also very drawn to really cool dogs and puppies – I have been a devout dog lover since I was little and they are still a huge pull for me if the dog seems to have a good personality and even more so if he/she happens to be soft or fuzzy or love attention.

I take pride in that animals – particularly dogs – and elderly people seem to like and trust me for the most part. And take to me.

Perhaps that makes me sound immature to some, but dogs (as well as my dear, older friends, relatives and acquaintances) have made an appreciable, positive difference in my life, especially during some difficult times. Being able to make an animal happy so easily is a nifty thing in my book. Senior citizens too. Or anyone, for that matter.

Being able to make people laugh or bring them a little bit of joy, expected or otherwise is also real kick in the pants and worth taking some risks to accomplish. Sometimes otherwise is more fun.
Aside: Is it really gay guys who own most of the toy breeds and smaller dogs? Have known straight and single guys with kinda frou frou type dogs – I have one as well (Shih-Tzu), so not judging. Honestly curious what ya’ll think.

I guess focusing on the action and possible reaction – as it relates to how it might make the other (in this case, a man who catches your eye/interest) feel, instead of focusing on the potential end result for you, may be the key to making more women make a move. I think it would work for me, in any event.

And as several of you have said, it can be a good experience for the asker too – even if they don’t “get the guy” or if he doesn’t get you from the get-go. : )

Everyone (or most everyone?) wants to feel appreciated, valued, and important. In all kinds of situations. I agree with you all that men want, need, and deserve that too – sometimes I think it is easy to forget that women have the power (maybe ability is a better word) to grant this to a guy by making the first move or by paying a sincere comment, or as Hunter said – by smiling – especially if at him – or making eye contact.

Even if it did/does go nowhere, you still may have made his moment by paying interest without him having to do something first.

Very good, “Verb”, and interesting point, about some men being clueless about reading the signals and about being direct.

Reading the signs is a very good idea for all of us

I think I’d be more likely to think he was getting it but not interested if he didn’t respond in kind. That would be due to lack of confidence on my part unless, or my low expectations prior to the contact, unless it was seriously obvious he was blowing me off. I’ve had that happen too. Then you just don’t let it diminish you or the fact that you gave it, and him, a fair shot.

I think many people (me too, sometimes) see what we either want to see or what we expect to see (be that positive or negative) rather than what is before our eyes. Can be tough to read someone you don’t know, especially if you are judging someone either by “their cover” or doing the flipside, and assuming they are an “open book”.

Reading is Fundamental : ) [Some of you of a certain age will recognize the borrowed credo – which I also subscribe to). Now, if we can more often than not … put the fun before the mental (paraphrased from Swami “Beyondanda” – if you like puns with a philosophical punch, check him out!)…
Mattie 56

Oh, Linda – what a minefield it is! But lots of good advice in these posts. I expect you already do this, but volunteering is a great way of meeting nice, interesting people if you’ve time to spare. Again, if your schedule permits, the same could apply to extension/evening classes. If you pick the right subject (obviously, it’s got to be one you’re at least curious about). Grassroots campaigning? Any social context where communication’s natural and necessary may provide opportunities – e.g. Hadley’s suggestion about crewing; learning another language.

As for signalling interest. Well, nothing wrong with eye-contact, followed by a smile. If he’s equally interested plus available and on the lookout: he’ll respond. If not, too bad – and you won’t feel foolish or damage your self-esteem (what’s wrong with a simple smile?! At the very least, it’ll make you feel good). As Evan says, men really are socialised to take the initiative; but your smile will provide the encouragement some men need.

Good luck, Linda!

Mx
verbosity 57

J,

Quit writing about my dog’s behavior!
JuJu 58

I don’t think that meeting men (or women) at age 30 (or thereafter) is more difficult than at 20 because of their reducing ranks or one’s diminishing attractiveness. I believe it’s because one knows oneself significantly better by that age and can also SEE a lot more than they could at age 20.
Selena 59

Uh, I’d venture a MUCH larger percentage of 20 yr. old’s are not married JuJu as compared to people 30 and beyond. Also, there is a much greater proportion of people in college and nite clubs under the age of 30, traditional places where people in that age group meet. That’s what I SEE and yes, I do know myself significantly better than when I was 20.
JuJu 60

Don’t get so fired up, Selena, I am not attacking you.

My “target audience” is perhaps slightly different – men under 35 – and there are PLENTY of unmarried and childless men in that age group. I am not feeling the scarcity yet.

But I was referring to something else. Have you noticed that with age your standards… well, maybe not so much -rise-, but get much more honed? I know fully well that I wouldn’t have even -considered- now some of the people I dated at 18-20, when supposedly I was more attractive simply because of my youth.

That’s what I meant.
Selena 61

I didn’t think you were attacking me JuJu. I rather thought you were under 30 and trying to make a case for age and eligibilty being unrelated. To that I disagree–meeting single men and women when you’re older IS more difficult than when you were 20.

Other than that, I tend to agree with you.
m 62

“Believe it or not, I’m not going to directly jump into the fray that seems to be occurring. ”

Why, Verbosity? Other than to live up to your name?

In one of your other comments you mentioned that you were going to always, always, always remain single. (Notwithstanding the degree to which your personality itself might be an outstanding relationship repellant. But I digress.)

As a result, what could you possibly have to say to people that want to be partnered?

Or are you just “inserting your masculine energy”, as David DeAngelo puts it? Waving your wand at the world in a desperate, panting attempt to insure it knows that you exist?
hunter 63

to juju/selena,

..weren’t you two ever told, that, one of god’s biggest jokes, is to allow women to go through their 20′s, just to keep this planet populated?……some women, have to think this way, just to maintain their sanity….
Selena 64

No hunter, I’ve never heard that. Though I did spend my 20′s raising a child, so I see the irony in it. Actually, the only thing I really miss about my 20′s is my unlined forehead.
verbosity 65

This is for M. I’m not going to fight with you on off-topic matters. It is nonsensical and a waste of everyone’s time, particularly when I’ve said nothing to you in provocation.

Contrary to what you asserted (“In one of your other comments you mentioned that you were going to always, always, always remain single.”), I made no such statement whatsoever. I have said I see no legal reason to marry, but that is another subject, and stated in another thread, I believe.

If you wish to pick a fight, that is your choice. However, at least make a minimal effort to be accurate in your paraphrasing. Do not make something up that does not exist. I, for one, will respond no further to you.

Best of luck to you.
vlh 66

Single women over 35 should:

1. Take up dancing. Lots of single men show up at ballroom dance classes, contra dances, and so on. Try dancepartner.com to find such men in your area, or just go to a free event in your area. Although some classes/events may require you to sign up with a partner, you can go contra dancing by yourself (it’s not technically a partner dance, since everyone in the room ends up dancing with everyone else in the room), and lots of single contra dancers marry people they meet through contra dancing.

2. Put your best foot forward on your online profile, but don’t put all your eggs in the online dating basket, as the odds are stacked against you in that particular venue.

3. A book I read did an actual survey of women leaving a marriage license office, asking them how they met their spouses. A whoppingly-high percentage of engaged women over 40 met their mates through some sort of health or sports club activity, so definitely join a (friendly!) gym, ski club or other activity like that. They are often informal singles meet-and-greets, or have events that basically function as singles get-togethers.
vlh 67

BigFella:

I am a shy person too, to the point that I even have trouble making eye contact with men I find attractive (a real stumbling block, since eye contact is really one of the best ways a woman can provide a man with an “opener”).

I don’t think the world is going to change any time soon to make it easy on us shy people to socialize with ease and start relationships. We live in a society (even a world) that is very extrovert-oriented. Very assertive people are admired and even seen as superior or more competent in their jobs, more attractive in their personalities, etc, than introverted people. It doesn’t mean us introverts have to change who we are (not possible anyway) but it does mean that since we are living in a world that is not really friendly to us, we have to *adapt*. Adapting is what makes humans so successful as a species, able to survive in all sorts of climates. By refusing to adapt, you are minimizing your opportunities to relate and/or mate. That’s nature’s way of deleting you out of the human gene pool.

Shyness is not an easy hurdle to overcome. I know. I am doing hypnotherapy to try to overcome my shyness, and it is starting to help. It is cost-effective, and you will see results quite quickly (especially compared to other more traditional “talk” oriented therapies). I highly recommend it. I think it would really enhance your dating life.

If you can’t do any of the above, then perhaps you should ask your friends to fix you up with women they know. This hasn’t worked for me, as my friends either ignored my request or told me point blank that if they knew an attractive guy my age, they would be dating him themselves, and would not fix me up! LOL But seriously, look around at your social networks, and see if there are any likely matchmaker-candidates. People who are already engaged or recently married are usually pretty gung-ho to fix up their single friends, and this can be an easy way for a shy person to meet someone new, with minimal risk (especially since your date has to be nice to you and polite, given the whole mutual-friends situation…)
Sahaja 68

Hey all, I just want to say I only recently discovered this blog, but I am completely addicted and I appreciate incredibly the honest, sincere, and enlightening comments all you write – that includes Steve, Lance, Marcus, J, Selena, verbosity, Li-Ann and so many others…Just want you to know that all your thoughts are appreciated and Ive learned a lot from you all.
On a side note, why arent some of you men in Europe? Boy, I miss Americans.