How EXACTLY Do I Break Up With A Non-Committal Man?
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Evan,
I have read your advice on non-committal men. I have done everything wrong. Sleep with him when he wants, clear my schedule for him, revolve my life around a guy who doesn’t do that for me, but he “doesn’t want to lose me”, etc.
I know your advice is: “Walk away and don’t look back. If he follows, you’ll know you’ll have yourself a boyfriend who values you and will follow you to the end of the earth. That is what you deserve. If he doesn’t, then he’s not all that serious about keeping you in his life, is he? ”
My question is, what is the right way to walk away? Do I have a “talk” with him? I feel like having a break-up talk is close to the same as giving him an ultimatum. Do I just go away? What exactly is “walking away?” What would be most effective with men? –Eileen
Dear Eileen,
I must admit, I’m always surprised when advice that I think is straightforward ends up being confusing for a reader.
Obviously, that only means one thing: I’m not nearly as good at explaining myself as I thought I was.
So thank you for reminding me to dig deeper, to straighten out the subtle nuances of the concept of walking away.
He is going to be a great boyfriend and husband for someone. Just not for you.
Let’s paint a scenario that should look familiar to most women.
You’re seeing a guy for the past three months. And by “seeing” him, I mean that you’ve been sleeping with him approximately once a week since the night you met. (If you’re not doing this, the story STILL holds, so please, stick with me.) You like this guy. You like this guy a lot. He’s charming, cute, smart, kind and charismatic. He is going to be a great boyfriend and husband for someone. Just not for you.
And you know this already because if he wanted to be your boyfriend, he’d already be your boyfriend. The fact that he sees you once a week, doesn’t hang out with you platonically, hasn’t introduced you to his family, hasn’t talked about a future, and only communicates by text tells you everything you need to know. This is a dead end.
Now let’s bring this back to you.
I tell you to walk away. What does that mean? Well, let’s start with what it doesn’t mean.
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58 Comments »Filed Under Relationships
Henriette 1
Great advice, Evan! This post needs to be bound in hardcover and given to every woman on her 16th birthday.
Dagaz 2
Evan, it seems like Eileen was asking about more long-term thing, not a three-month old relationship. At least, that was my feeling about her letter.
So, the question might be: how exactly to break-up with a boyfriend of two (three, four etc) years, who is exclusive with her, introduced her to family, spending holidays and vacations with her, carrying about her, but – it is the maximum step he goes up to. He doesn’t want to marry, because he is perfectly fine and comfortable with how he has her in his life for now.
marymary 3
watch out. The uncommitted cant commit to being with you and can’t commit to being without you. he or indeed she may very well return after the break up. Be keen for a while, then blow hot and cold. You break up. You get back together. Ad nauseum.
so don’t just walk, run.
You may feel he or she is the exception. In which case I wish you a strong heart and the very best of luck.
Fusee 4
Aaaahhhh Evan this is so good! Love it! Especially the “Tada!”
People are not confused because they do not understand your advice or how to put it into practice. They do. It’s very, very, very clear. They simply hope for another way, some miracle method that would allow them to avoid having to develop the inner strength to follow through. And of course in many cases some miracle speech that would turn their glorified booty call status into the real deal.
Never had to deal with this issue at the early stage since I do not do multiple/casual/whatever dating. But 15 months into my relationship with the amazing boyfriend, I’m getting dangerously close to the next sensitive stage…
Ruby 5
I think the problem for many women is that the situation is not as clear-cut as the one you describe. For example, the guy will spend some time hanging out platonically, or he will call during the week, won’t expect sex right away, will even be exclusive, and/or will talk about future plans. When I’ve been in this situation, invariably the men didn’t want to break up, or had very ambivalent feelings about it and I’ve never had a man agree easily, or tell me I deserved better. etc. That’s not to say that women shouldn’t be firm about what they want, but that men can be very ambivalent about what they want, and it can be extremely confusing.
Agatha 6
Evan I love your no-nonsense advice and agree completely.
I also like that you so clearly pointed out a way to say goodbye but not be a b*tch about it…there really can be no hard feelings in these situations if the woman takes a stand to genuinely & authentically value herself.
Deannie 7
I finally took this advice. Doing so allowed me to give myself the best gift: my self-respect. Evan, you feel like a friend giving me common sense reminders. Genuinely practicing consistency in my life has unleashed new energy as I remove energy zapping *anything* from my life. You rock!
Anon 8
Great advice Evan!
I am in a different but similar situation.
I have been dating my girlfriend for 6 months. Things been going very well until two months ago. She joined a multi-level marketing company selling fashion jewelry. Since then she has submerged herself completely into “owning my home based business” and “making a 7-figure profit” endeavors. She has become unavailable most of the time and I am now just an after-thought.
So far she is hardly making any profit and her prospects are drying up (one can only trade her social graces for money to her friends and family for so long). One part of me is saying that give her some time and she will eventually come back to reality, but then if one could commit to the lure of a pyramid scheme and toss aside a relationship, she is probably not the right person with whom to pursue a long term relationship.
Carla 9
Thank you For this article, IT came at there right time. although I manage to cut IT off without hesistation but then later thought Hmmm was I wrong? was it too early ? But as I kept reading and stated if he really wanted to be your boyfriend he would byou for you to change your mind thats when I said yup I did the right thing. He didnt beg but he did ask if I was sure we couldnt stay friends, that was enough For me then later saw him chatting away on Instagram with a girl from Brazil saying the the same things he told me,so I knew then I was nothing special to him. I did The right thing I saved myself alot of heartache and wasted time.
honestly, deep inside you already know The answer We just have too much hope.
I learned there is so many guys out there who amazing and a better match why teta and convince someone your worth it. Thanks Evan!!!
Jackie Holness 10
The “slow diss” (a phrase that I’ve coined) always work…stop calling over time…he will get the message…as if he cared anyway:)
Rochelle 11
@Marymary #3, I agree that happens too, it’s like they want to have their cake and eat too. They don’t always respect your wishes either when you tell them not to call and might still contact you. So if he tries to come back, don’t assume anything unless he asks flat out for a relationship. Don’t think anything else is a “sign”. If it’s a situation where your feelings have faded and you want to be platonic acquaintances while seeking real romance, okay, but in other cases, continue running. lol
Fusee 12
@Ruby #5: “…men can be very ambivalent about what they want, and it can be extremely confusing.”
Yep! Most men looooove a good status quo! A bit more than booty, a bit less then wife… just the perfect balance of ongoing benefits without too much expectations and responsabilities…
When it’s confusing or simply stops progressing, I put a deadline on it. Keeps me in touch with my goals and detached from any outcome, and prevents me to slide into a dead-end LTR where I convince myself that “he just needs time” before considering an upgrade. Most men do not “need more time”, they just like it as it is and have no desire of progressing into more commitment. The ones who really need more time say so, use it efficiently, and then move the relationship forwards without prompting when they are ready. It does not take years.
In dead-end LTR cases, before walking away, it would be more effective to have a conversation about needs and intentions to allow further clarification. Sometimes he really needs to figure a couple of things out (about you or about other life stuff), or work through some fears, before progressing to the next step. Most of the time he does not though, and has no desire of breaking the status quo. That’s why he will not offer more, but will also refuse to let you go.
Nothing beats clear communication involving asking curiosity-based questions about his needs and intentions, and encouraging progression towards resolution of doubts and fears within a reasonnable time frame. That’s what I’m doing with the boyfriend and it’s working well. He really needs the guidance and encouragement. We would not be where we are at if I had not taken that matter into my own hands. He is grateful I have.
maria 13
This REALLY CAME ON TIME.
I love the straight to the point talk. I have given this talk about 3x this year.
He keeps coming back but does not step up.
This articled has described every action going on from being used, to not meeting family members, to everyone knowing we are not going to be together but me.
Not that that isnt embarrassing enough, I have let this go on since the beginning of the year, so we passed the three month mark.
It is true when they say seek and you shall find. Ask and you will receive.
Not that I did not ALREADY know, like common sense, sometimes we just do not apply the common sense.
Thanks!
starthrower 14
Maybe I was too harsh; I didn’t even bother having a chat. I just disappeared. But I don’t think it mattered at that point. I had already been phased out so there was no reason to have the chat. He was ignoring me anyway.
Leesa 15
she said that he said that “he didn’t want to lose her”. so when evan said that if he does try to talk her into staying ….. , well, i’d have to say that it’s not because he wants a relationship with her. he just doesn’t want to lose his “sure thing” until someone new/better comes along. and he may sound convincing when he’s begging her not to walk away, because if she really likes him, some women don’t need much to stay holding onto a painful situation. this is where she has to keep her eye squarely on past actions and not present words.
sarahrahrah! 16
Amen, EMK!
I followed this advice this past spring and cut loose a guy who wouldn’t commit. Low and behold, he has come back again twice, but he couldn’t give me what I needed and really wouldn’t acknowledge that he was unavailable. I had grieved the relationship (what I had invested in it) after I let him go (and saw how he responded), so when he came back I wasn’t vulnerable to him.
I am tremendously grateful for this straightforward advice and encourage anyone who is floundering with someone whom you know in your heart doesn’t care, to free yourself so you can be with someone who truly likes and cares about you. It’s worked for me.
Allison 17
This is such timely and amazing advice – I’ve been in a similar situation since July and finally, I took EMK’s advice and just walked away gracefully. No talk, no nothing. We have mutual close friends so we stay in touch but it is firmly platonic now and after few weeks of mild sadness, I’m doing just fine. But it was HARD to take that step because I really, really, liked him.
Now, I’ve been out three times with a guy who calls on Monday for a date on Saturday, texts and emails me throughout the week and have a few more dates lined up in between. It’s kind of amazing – if men like you and want to hang out with you, they are very, very obvious about it. That is the single most valuable piece of information I have ever been given in my dating life.
EMK, your advice rocks.
Gina 18
FANTASTIC! Evan, I have enjoyed your blogs so much over these past couple of years. They have helped me, over and over again. This one will be flagged amongst them all. You couldn’t have hit it more dead on and been any clearer. We have to remember, we get what we accept. Thank you!
Annalise 19
I have read Evan religiously since my divorce a little over a year ago. I have dated constantly and followed everything EMK has said. I got very good at recognizing the signs of guys who were not ever going to commit. I walked away from several guys, and not one came back. If they are not ready, they are not ready. I have now been dating a guy for the past month, and it is like night and day. When they like you and want to be with you, they make sure you know it. Keep telling yourself what you want, and it will come to you if you are ready.
Kristy 20
I wonder though….it’s hard sometimes if its not so cut and dry. I’ve been exclusive with a man for almost a year, have daily contact with him and see him almost everyday and all weekend, yet he doesn’t call me his girlfriend, but if we dated others it would be cheating, so what happens in that situation? We spent the holidays together lat year and this year he is p,awning to visit my family back east for Christmas with me….so is he afraid to commit? Wen essentially he is committed.
Michael17 21
Evan: Great post. I have been that guy who dithered on a girl. What was happening on my side was that I felt that she was an awesome and giving person who seems to genuinely appreciate me (very rare, so it was getting me to stay), but there was a level of attraction that was missing for me (which was getting me to dither). Anyway, sometimes the girl showing a boundary as you suggested just might be what is needed for the guy to wake up and see what a good thing he has in front of him.
I do have to point out something though that wasn’t clear to me. You say that people tend to become exclusive really fast. At the same time too, aren’t you advocating to your female (and male) readers choosing on the basis of character, and settling for a chemistry of 6 or 7? (I didn’t say you were saying to *disregard* chemistry altogether, because I know you are not.) I think those two tidbits contradict each other, because when two people commit so fast, it is usually because the chemistry is so intense–”they just know”. I myself know that if I am dating a girl who for whom I only feel moderately strong chemistry for (but I am still seeing because I am picking up that she is a great person), I will be more “rational” and take my time about becoming exclusive.
Rochelle 22
@Kristy, yeah that is a bit different from the above situation. I don’t get how some guys want to be exclusive, not have you see anyone else, but not call you his girlfriend. And a year of that is a really long time but some guys really are capable of staying exclusive and acting like a boyfriend until someone else comes along. And that isn’t fair to you. He may just think it will be easier for him to leave when he wants because he can say “well we weren’t boyfriend and girlfriend”
Did you verbally agree to that arrangement to see each other only? Because unless some sort of verbal agreement was made if he isn’t calling you his girlfriend, it isn’t cheating to see other people, even if it has been a year. He may not be committing since you are allowing him to have the benefits of a girlfriend without truly committing. That would make it another “having his cake and eating it too” ”why buy the cow if you can milk it for free” situation.
But on the other hand his has credibility for behaving like a boyfriend, shows that he is capable of certain actions… If you haven’t really discussed it might be a good idea to discuss it, not putting pressure on him to call you his gf but to lay out your concerns and understand where he is.
nathan 23
Sometimes, it is as cut and dry as Evan painted it. And for those situations, his post is dead on. Other times, it’s not so clear and I don’t think women are all that less prone to being ambivalent – when they aren’t sure, or are afraid of hurting the guy they are with.
I have been on both sides of the coin. During my 20s, I had two longer relationships where I was on the fence. One, I finally ended. The other, she did. Since then, I have dated a series of unavailable, non-commital women. Part of me wonders if it’s some kind of karmic boomerang, but that’s beside the point. I have been the hidden boyfriend. I have been the “I think I love you, but I have to leave you” guy. I’ve experienced “future faking.” You name it. The good thing about all of that is that I can read things really well these days, and feel like I’m in charge of my decisions around the relationship, as opposed to acting out of a fear of loss or a desire to placate.
So, the way I see it, the OP needs to decide what she wants. If you feel that it’s worth giving him a chance to make some changes, then sit down and have a talk with him about what your needs are. However, you have to be ready to let him go if he just wants to keep things the same. And be ready for weak attempts to weasel back in when loneliness kicks in. At the same time, if you do have a talk with him, you might be surprised by what you hear. Perhaps he has his own set of needs to address. Sure, that’s probably a minority of guys, but it’s a possibility.
Which is why it’s most important to decide if you’re mostly ready to move on, or if you think it’s worth one last chance. Because if all you’re looking for is a perfect exit, that’s just an excuse to keep hanging on. If you’re just hanging on, take Evan’s advice and move on.
Amy 24
I agree completely with what Ruby said @5. Many situations do not fit into the classic profile of a non-committal guy. This is going to sound so conservative, and I’m the least conservative woman I know, but I think the problem has to do with sex. Our (we women) desire for sex and our freedom to have it gets us into these situations. If we could/would hold off on sex even a little longer, most guys who don’t really want anything long term, (but instead just a comfy situation where they have someone nice to sleep with.. all the while keeping one eye out for the girl they will want to commit to) will eventually move on. Their priorities will become obvious. As much as I hate to say it, once we sleep with them, we lose the upper hand so to speak. I really wish it wasn’t like this because I like the idea of complete sexual autonomy. But that tends to be an ideal that does not play out in reality for most women. Sigh.
Liz 25
Boundaries. Exactly what I needed. If they aren’t there, you gotta walk. No holding on to the once a week dates, and spotty phone calls, because it is better than being alone. A man that wants you will stop at nothing to get you, have you. There isn’t the guessing game.
It works if you delete their number or give it to a girlfriend to avoid those drunken texts that go no where.
Fiona 26
Anon, maybe try talking to your girlfriend about how you feel. She may just be going through a difficult period as new jobs are always hard and demanding but generally get easier as time goes on. I was once left a few months into a high pressure role (that I hated) as my boyfriend complained that I was working too long and tired all the time but that period passed when I was more settled in my role and knew what I was doing. Transition is often tough but it passes.
Tom10 27
Kristy
“I’ve been exclusive with a man for almost a year…yet he doesn’t call me his girlfriend…so what happens in that situation?…is he afraid to commit?”
This doesn’t look too good for you unfortunately. Non-committal men are masters in obfuscation and excel in the art of carefully threading grey areas. As Annalise said; “when they like you and want to be with you, they make sure you know it”.
If he’s serious he’ll make sure you have no doubts.
Amy
“If we could/would hold off on sex even a little longer, most guys who don’t really want anything long term…will eventually move on. I really wish it wasn’t like this because I like the idea of complete sexual autonomy.”
What you say is true, but there is another way to fend off the non-committal men other than holding off on sex: ask them what they want! I’m always amazed at the way women are so reluctant to say what they’re looking for and will spend months forensically examining the situation trying to suss out what he means, rather than just asking him. What’s the worst that can happen if you ask?
Amy 28
I’ll tell you what’s the worst thing that can happen because I’ve experienced it. The guy will say “why are you so needy?” which for most women, is the worst thing we can be called. Many dating experts strongly discourage women from making any statement or asking any question that a man could interpret as the woman pressuring them to move things forward. But since you’re a guy, your comment comes as a welcome relief… asking a guy what he wants does seem pretty simple. I guess if he pulls the “you’re so needy” line, he’s probably not the right guy anyway, at least not at that moment.
Sherel 29
I have had guys say I am their girlfriend and not act like we are in a relationship and I have had guys who seemed to not want to claim it “the relationshp” right way but treated me great. I will take the latter any day. As you get older and have been married and have had kids things do not necessarily happen so quick. As a single Mom I do not have time, nor the inclination to be swept off my feet right away. I want to take things a bit slow and appreciate someone that wants the same. Daily long conversatons and seeing someone 4-5 times a week is a deal breaker for me!
Still-Looking 30
Amy@28
I find open communication to be the key and I don’t mind at all if a woman asks what I’m looking for. After a couple of dates I know if I’m interested in a LTR with a particular woman. If I am, then I can be completely honest and say I’m interested in a LTR and would like to see how things work out over the next several dates. If I enjoy spending time with the woman but I’m not interested in a LTR I can answer truthfully that I’m just looking for casual dating or a platonic friendship (it’s amazing how many women are looking for the same thing). And if I have little interest in the woman it gives me the chance to explain that I’m looking for “the one” and I’m just not feeling the chemistry – a way of gently letting her know I’m not interested. I’d much rather do that after 2 or more dates than just fade away.
The vast majority of women appreciate my honesty and it sure beats sending mixed signals like a once a week date night and sporadic communications through out the week.
Left 31
Thank you, Evan. I have been learning from your articles for over a year and have found them to be invaluable. I was divorced 19 years ago and decided no dating until my kids were grown and have now found myself learing the ropes all over again in this strange dating scene of people constantly using each other. This article describes my last dating scenario with a widower. I gave him 5 months due to his circumstances, which was longer than I should have. I used your advice above and kept myself from experiencing some real heartbreak. Thank you for your clear and helpful advice.
Ruby 32
I’ve followed the strategy that says that a woman should not bring anything up about what she’s looking for, and let the man make all the moves, but I don’t think it works. Better to be up front about your own interest in an LTR, than to be in waiting, holding pattern. It doesn’t mean that the LTR is going to be with that particular man; it’s just a statement of intent, and if that scares someone off, they aren’t right for you anyway.
OTOH, I had a relationship “expert” tell me that the only way to deal with a commitment-phobe was to be even less available than he was, so maybe different strategies work for different situations? She said that one played the hard-to-get game until a serious commitment was made (which could perhaps take years). But do these dyed-in-the-wool commitment-phobes ever get there? No wonder it gets confusing!
Rochelle 33
Agree with Amy on both 24 and 28. Asking guys what they want *with me * specifically has never works for me. They always see it as pressure and the answer is always wishy washy.. Like they future talk or say we’re working towards being a couple, etc and it does’t happen. It seems like telling them what I want for myself and leaving them out of the equation is more effective. I’m more old fashioned about sex too, I wouldn’t sleep with a guy until it’s been made clear that we are boyfriend and girlfriend. Because I’m the type of lady who starts to feel a bit more attached from simply kissing a guy, most of the time. And a guy is entitled to want it sooner. But generally speaking if he doesn’t respect preference to wait til he decides he wants a relationship, he isn’t feeling a strong enough emotional connection.
Karmic Equation 34
I both naturally and consciously reflect the same level of commitment to a relationship as the guy displays. So I’ve never encountered this problem of a non-committal man, simply because if he’s non-committal then so am I.
And strangely, taking this I’m-only-just-as-committed-as-he-is approach, my guys have always escalated the relationship on their own and in a timely manner. I’ve never had to ask where I stood, because they clearly told me and showed me. It’s almost as if when there is no pressure from me to be anything other than a good guy to me, they realize being a good guy means they should be my boyfriend. Or maybe because most guys want the girls they are dating to be committed to him (whether or not he is committed to her) — my guys feel my reflection of their commitment and realize if they want *my* commitment, they have to step up and give me *their* commitment. And they do. And I never have to ask.
Maybe it’s my approach. Maybe it’s the guys I date. But whatever it is, the timetables from dating to calling each other boyfriend/girlfriend has been really consistent, anywhere from 4 weeks to 12 weeks.
If the “label” is important to the letter writer (LW), when the guy is clearly exhibiting devotion to her, tells her he loves, etc., but simply not affording her the label, then she should ask why he doesn’t call her his girlfriend. Maybe he has a strange hangup, like being superstitious that calling her his girlfriend means the relationship is doomed…and he doesn’t want to doom the relationship.
However, if the guy is clearly NOT devoted to her, NOT telling her he loves her, AND not giving her the label, then she should definitely walk away.
Fusee 35
Amy #28: “The guy will say “why are you so needy?” which for most women, is the worst thing we can be called.”
Calling someone names is a weak defense tactic that works only against insecure people. (generic) You can only be needy of you are… needy! If you are firmly grounded in your values and your goals and do not intent to force them down someone’s throat, but rather simply wish to discover whether their goals align with yours, there is only one way to do so: asking questions, assessing compatibility, and then either building something together or opting out. Asking questions is not being needy, it is honoring your needs.
If he does not see your curiosity-based and detached-of-any-outcome questions positively and return an insult to you (calling you “needy” for example) instead of having an adult conversation about your possible differences, you know what you wanted to know: he does not share your goals AND he is not able of having an intimate conversation. But he sures wants to make you feel inadequate and maintain an unhealthy power dynamics between the two of you.
The reason why asking questions is discouraged is because most women ARE needy. Lot of women are more attached to the (still imaginary) relationship they dream of having than to the actual (real, live) partner they are currently getting to know. That is needy and uncompatible with developing a solid and happy relationship. Another reason is that lot of people are not in tune with when and how to have these conversations. It’s a real art, and requires some practice. You have to have reached a certain basic level of emotional intimacy and choose the proper timing, tone, and vocabulary. Sex sidetracks that process by delaying (or even preventing) the man to feel emotionally connected to his woman while it makes the woman really attached to keeping the relationship going (and therefore less comfortable to ask questions whose answers might conflict with the reality of her physical involvement).
As Tom10 #27 and Still-Looking #30 wrote, secure men who know what they want and respect the reality of your needs will gladly answer your questions when they come from a place of curiosity and NOT a place of demand or desperation. The men who wants to play the field will say oh-ok-goodbye-call-me-if-you-want-a-f*ck, and the ones interested in a LTR will be happy to discover that their woman is equally serious-minded.
For me the worse that could happen is not to be called needy by someone who wants to keep me in the grey area and exploit my naivety. It is to live in fantasy land for months or years believing that his “perfect boyfriend behavior” means that he shares the same long-term goals, only to wake up after having wasted years of love and energy on the wrong candidate because I never dared to ASK about his intentions, honor my own needs, and make appropriate decisions based on this data points.
Tom10 #27: “Non-committal men are masters in obfuscation and excel in the art of carefully threading grey areas.”
And it does not apply only for the first few months. It can last for years and can certainly involve “perfect boyfriend behavior”.
Rochelle 36
@Karmic Equation 34, I think your approach is excellent, pretty much goes in line with Evan’s mirroring concept. And that is the approach I take now so if it doesn’t work out I don’t really feel drained,disappointed and desperate. It’s just “next” and being that way is becoming more natural. It does seem as if the noncommittal man situation is more likely to happen when the woman invests herself too soon in a relationship that doesn’t exist yet. And starts acting like she is the girlfriend already. When I look back at my noncommittal guy experiences, that is exactly what I did, invested too much too soon, stopped dating other guys because I was so excited about him, etc.
Clare 37
Wow, Fusee, you speak so much sense. There really is SO much wisdom in your post # 35.
I’d say another thing women don’t do enough of are things that feel good to them around relationships. They’ll stick around for ages in situations which don’t feel good because their goals and the man’s don’t align, perhaps not feeling empowered enough to search for situations that feel better, perhaps misguided in their attachment, perhaps not seeing the situation for what it is.
But I like your take, because yes, we deserve happiness in relationships, whatever that means to us, and getting clearer and clearer within ourselves about that is the way to get there.
Serena27 38
I agree, that what Fusee #35 said was spot-on. Some people are needy, so you should assess for yourself if you are needy or not (there are probably tons of online articles and questionares to help you figure that out). Don’t wait for someone else to accuse you of it.
Timing is also very important for asking questions. If you are already giving the guy everything he wants, then you are in a very weak position and you don’t have a lot negotiating power. A man can sleep with you, live with you, buy a house with you and not actually love you. If you just go along for the ride you may find yourself somewhere you don’t want to be, living for someone else’s agenda.
That’s why, if a guy is calling or texting last-minute for dates, you make your own plans and tell him you’re busy (in a very nice way). If he likes you, he will step up and call further in advance. If not, you have your answer.
If you’ve been having sex already but you’re not officially in a committed relationship don’t sleep over regularly (or at all). If he wants to be your boyfriend he will ask you to sleep over. Let him initiate the conversation. If he doesn’t initiate a conversation and he’s gone past your timeline (yes, you should have an internal timeline of how long you are willing to stay at a certain level before walking), then you walk (as Evan so clearly instructed in this post). When you have a timeline that 2 weeks of sex without committment is fine, but more than 5 is unacceptable and then you stay for 8 weeks, that is being needy. If you think dating for 3 years before a proposal is your absolute limit but you stay for 4, that is needy.
When my boyfriend asked me to move in together at 3 months, I said it was too soon, I couldn’t even think of it yet. Shortly after we had several conversations (all initiated by him) about our relationship and where it was going. He was very worried I didn’t see a future with him. I explained that I saw moving in as a step towards marriage, not to be taken lightly. If I moved in, it would be with the understanding that we were fully committed and moving towards marriage. I’m divorced and I never want to get divorced again. I never planned to have that conversation, but I was able to talk about marriage and our long-term relationship plans without sounding needy.
Now at 6 months together, we are moving in together this month and I don’t have a single doubt that he intends to marry me. I don’t feel like a roommate with benefits, or a live-in girlfriend, I feel like his partner.
I’ve never doubted his feelings for me, he’s always told me how he feels about me, and demonstrated it by being the ‘ideal’ boyfriend according to Evan’s standards.
Sherel 39
You shouldn’t have to ask. It should be clear because the man takes the initative. Women should be receptive and not vested until then!
Daphne 40
What amazes me is how difficult it was for me to believe that My Non-Commital Once a week guy really didn’t care. After all, he clearly thought I was worthy of lust ! Why is it so hard to believe the truth when they don’t want to date, don’t call just to talk, don’t call you their gf etc. ?
The Prodigy 41
Evan is dangerous. He keeps giving all of the game away for free. Sadly to day, he is right and it is a routine I have used repeatedly with much success. But men don’t feel guilty. Know why? Because women were running game and playing with men’s hearts when they were in their mid twenties. Now with 30+ knocking on the door, men have all the power and want to take their time in selecting the right person. But we want to have fun along the way. Dropping even the slightest hint of interest in a relationship with a woman is like a guaranteed 3 month direct line into her bedroom.
If you’re in this situation I can tell you what’s happening. You’re being used as a sure lay so the guy can look for the right woman and take his time getting to know her. All while having a source of pleasure (you).
Kathleen 42
The Prodigy #41 reminds me of those guys that keep popping up on Evans site under various ever changing pseudo noms They were hurt by women in the past so now they want to punish women in general and put us down.
” a routine he has used repeatedly “….Sounds like this guy has the same fantasy life imagination……
Ria 43
You know, Prodigy has a very good point, Kathleen. A number of women may fall into a -relationship- trap, should the guy just mention the possibility of this happening.
Soul 44
Kathleen #42,
I don’t know why you said what you said… I can tell you that I have many male friends who would agree with the Prodigy #41. In fact, he totally corroborates what Evan is saying… there are worthy guys, and others who will gladly lead you on (and they might not have been hurt by women in the past). It is your job to say no to the latter.
Some people actually think and act as the Prodigy described it. Just make sure you do not accept them.
Leigh 45
*thumbs up* this is the advice I give in the counselling office to my 16 Year old students.
Ruby 46
“Because women were running game and playing with men’s hearts when they were in their mid twenties. Now with 30+ knocking on the door, men have all the power and want to take their time in selecting the right person…Dropping even the slightest hint of interest in a relationship with a woman is like a guaranteed 3 month direct line into her bedroom. ”
I agree with Kathleen that this is a total putdown of women. Most women in their twenties (at least the one’s I’ve known, including myself) aren’t about “playing with men’s hearts”, that’s just a b.s. justification of bad behavior. To lie about wanting a relationship with someone when you really don’t is a cruel thing to do.
Rochelle 47
Men who will try to lead us on deliberately exist and there are plenty of things we can do to weed them out, including saying “bye bye” when he shows that he’s not really aiming for a relationship and just for the bedroom. Soo I have to disagree with Prodigy saying “men have all the power”
Kathleen 48
The reason why I commented on The Prodigys post, (as Ruby was also astute enough to notice) , was the tone of mean spiritedness he demonstrated justifying since women ” were playing with mens hearts …etc” that now they deserved to be manipulated and set up.
Many guys aren’t available for commitment. Some guys have attachment disorders , some its timing, some have other priorities, prefer a different type etc… Its been my experience that most of these guys aren’t trying to “pay women back” Ive become very good at observing how guys interact.
Evans advice has been fantastic and has helped me make decisions easily. So many of the posts are wise and inspiring
The Prodigy writes like a misogynist.
Katarina Phang 49
Amy #24: As much as I hate to say it, once we sleep with them, we lose the upper hand so to speak. I really wish it wasn’t like this because I like the idea of complete sexual autonomy. But that tends to be an ideal that does not play out in reality for most women. Sigh.
Awww…Amy, what a sad limiting belief that is! And it’s simply not true. Women hold the power at all time simply if she chooses to, before or after sex.
Let’s stop all these hung-ups surrounding sex. It’s simply not end all and be all. There is so much more to what make and break a relationship/courtship other than sex. Sex always helps in my case. It’s all about our attitude. If you have a positive outlook about sex, you will attract the kind of men who also share your attitude.
Katarina Phang 50
There is too much power struggle I sense re.sex here. Is that perhaps why these men left the relationship? It’s not the sex, it’s how you think how important the sex is!
It is important, but not in the way it was depicted by many women in this thread. Sex is important as a glue, not as a tool for power struggle. Big mistake.
TheProdigy 51
@42(Kathleen):
This is NOT a put down of women at all. Try to open your heart and ears and listen to what I’m saying without bias.
For most of us – maybe not you – we tend to go after the wrong qualities when we are younger. For both men and women. When I was in my mid to late twenties, I wouldn’t date anyone who didn’t keep her nails manicured, have her belly button pierced, and dress in a certain style. But it didn’t matter, because I wasn’t looking to get married then, I was just having fun. No one go hurt. But there were women who vied for my attention who I just ignored because they were too plain, or they were too boring. Guess what, those are the women that are now married. That had qualities that made them a good girlfriend, wife, and mother. I didn’t see it then because I was chasing the wrong things. But the opposite is true… there were also women out of my reach who may have thought I was too plain or too boring.
But things change once we hit 28 to 30. Those who are ready to start a family and futre are looking for qualities that make a good husband or wife. Women looking to settle no longer care that you were 3rd string quarter back and not the starter. They care about finding someone who will commit, be a good husband, be a good father, and want to build a future.
If you’re still in shape, have a white collar job, are looking to commit, and have the qualities of a good mate, majority of single women are in your reach. That doesn’t mean all of them are good for you. You might not feel the chemistry or like the values of some you meet. Some guys will keep moving on. Others will keep that woman around while he continues to look for Mrs. Right. He won’t just say “I want to sleep with you until I find a girl I want to marry” in words. But his actions will. He’s going to drop hints about the possibility of a future, and that will be enough to keep a lot of women around. Before blogs like Evan’s and books like “he’s just not into you” women would (and still do) rationalize reasons as to why the guy just isn’t ready to fully commit. Don’t be that girl. Because most men aren’t going to feel bad about leading you on while they look for their Mrs. Right.
TheProdigy 52
Kathleen #48:
Many guys aren’t available for commitment. Some guys have attachment disorders , some its timing, some have other priorities, prefer a different type etc… Its been my experience that most of these guys aren’t trying to “pay women back” Ive become very good at observing how guys interact.
Kathleen: See, there you already go making excuses for letting a man run roughshod all over your heart. These are just symptoms, not the root cause. The root cause is he just doesn’t like as a long term partner.
And who said men were out there just looking to pay women back? I said a man may not feel guilty about wasting someone’s time. If I just came up to you and said “you’re attractive, but not what I want long term, will you sleep with me for 2-3 months on weeknights when I’m bored?” you’d probably slap me and say no.
But if I said “Kathleen, I can’t wait for you and I to go to on vacation together in 6 months! I’m the kind of guy that likes to travel with the person I’m with, how about you? But hey, I’m out of town every weekend, and commitment scares me because the timing is off.” you’d have me on speed dial, come over at 11pm when I asked you to, and be asking Evan what it will take to help me get over my fear of commitment. Evan will tell you “the right girl” and you still won’t believe him. I’m just saying, don’t be that girl.
#24 Amy is right. Read Evan’s “Men go looking for sex and find love” article. Don’t believe her? Tell a man AFTER you’ve had sex with him that you want a long term relationship, yadda yadda yadda…. and watch him tell you the timing is not right, but call him if you ever want company. He’s gotten what he wanted. And won’t blink twice after you go.
When a man’s interest is the same as it was before sex, if not more, you’ve probably got someone who is interested in getting to know you as a person.
Katarina Phang 53
The Prodigy: #24 Amy is right. Read Evan’s “Men go looking for sex and find love” article. Don’t believe her? Tell a man AFTER you’ve had sex with him that you want a long term relationship, yadda yadda yadda…. and watch him tell you the timing is not right, but call him if you ever want company. He’s gotten what he wanted. And won’t blink twice after you go.
Yes, when women do all that after sex, sure most men will bolt. So it’s not the sex. It is what she DOES after sex.
Sex is only an issue when you make it one. It’s never an issue for me or women like me. Men still chase me after sex because I offer much more than just sex.
What do you offer as a woman? Ask yourself that question.
Jackie 54
Finally I had the courage to brek off with the guy who I was seeing for the past 2 year, on and off.
First time around, he was hot in the beginning got me to like him, then he was cold and distance, tried to push me away by talking about other women afater he had me, and I did walked away, but with a broken heart.
7 months later, he made contacts again, I tried to ignore him, didn’t succeed, I thought I really liked him and would like to give him the second chance.
We met up and end up to be together again. He was a bit better in the beginning, kept contact, called and texted within a reasonable time frame. I thought he has changed. Well, I thought…lol. Then all the sudden, he told me he couldn’t commit, and too busy to have time for me.. blah blah…
I gave him enough time and space, and was hoping it would get better, but never, actually it got worse, no reply for the texts, and no picking up the phones any more, well.. old pattern came out again.
Had enough of it, tried to phone and tell him it’s over, no picking up. Had to send a clear message to broke that off, asked him to forget about my number, no reply, surprise surprise. Now I can really see how much he cared about me..
But I am glad it’s done, and thanks for the article..
Lia 55
I dated a guy 3 years ago who for the first few weeks saw me often and called, emailed, and texted often. Then one day that just changed. He started seeing me less (from several times a week to once) and calls were almost nonexistent.
I didn’t see myself as a woman who would put up with that kind of treatment but it is easier to justify it than I would have thought possible. I excused his lack of interest because I was so unbelievably lonely and isolated in my life that anything was better than the nothing I had lived with for so many years.
I am ashamed to say I even took him back after he dumped me because his ex-wife wanted him back (four days later she dumped him) and he came back to me.
I told myself that seeing him once a week was actually good for me because I was so wrapped up in my daughter and her needs. I told myself that it was okay that he never took me out because I really couldn’t afford the money for a caregiver/ babysitter for my daughter. I told myself that it was okay that he talked incessantly about his ex-wife because he was grieving and I should be there for him. I told myself that it was okay that he was never there for me and that I shouldn’t burden him with all the fear, pain and overwhelm I felt in dealing with my daughter’s disabilities and medical issues. I told myself these things until I couldn’t any longer.
Being alone is one thing, being with someone and lonely is too painful.
I let him go. Over the last 3 years he has contacted me several times. In one email he wrote:
“A big part of why I fell in love with you is because I saw the unconditional love you showered upon your daughter. I told you earlier that I thought you were super human. That was addressing your incredible determination, your ability to pick yourself up time and time again to go on living no matter what life presented you with. I see the strength, the pain and the indomitable spirit inside of you.
“In two and one half years of meeting women and dating I have never met anyone that could hold a candle to you. It’s true that you are the most beautiful woman I have ever dated. You could clearly see that in the way I looked at you when we were together. But I never would have been able to fall in love with you if I did not respect and admire you.”
I don’t understand how he could write something like that and his actions could be so clearly different. I was so tempted to let him back into my life. But after a few emails he disappeared again. I didn’t hear from him for several weeks.
Finally I stopped answering his calls, texts, and emails. It was just too painful and silence seems to be the only thing he understands.
starthrower68 56
There may be some deep part of him that meant what he said to you Lia. However its more likely it was designed to get you back on the hook because he had nothing else going on. There is nothing to do with the ambivalent, non-committal male but to completely, totally, unapologetically cut him out of your life. It’s not productive to keep giving him chance after chance in the hope that it might eventually be different. It’s too exhausting and painful. Being without a partner is a much less lonely than trying to be with one who treats you that way.
Lia 57
@Starthrower68
Thank you! You are right of course. Until I started reading Evan’s blog I was more focused on what was being said by a man rather than what a man would do. When I finally start dating again I will have a whole new perspective and a whole new skill set!….
Oh by the way…
THANK YOU EVAN!!!
Marsala 58
Thanks! I’d never been in a situation like this before so I was pretty confused. Oh, I’m 39 and divorced–no innocent girl. But I wasn’t used to being treated like an afterthought by a guy. Lucky me, I guess. I’ve had real relationships mainly.
But something was off from the beginning with the last person I dated. We liked each other a great deal and his pursuit was intense. Until it wasn’t, He’d disappear as soon as I gave him my interest. Then I’d walk away, and he’d pursue again. It happened over and over until I said I was done.
He reached out recently to tell me he missed me, after a period of no contact. He expressed his attraction, we were going to try to work something out…and then he refused to clear the time I was available, or even make a counter offer. As small as that sounds, that was it for me. Everything had been on his terms up until then, so it didn’t come as a surprise, but I was very much at my limit of tolerating the non-committal way he treated me. Around that same time, I found this. It helped me finally send the message to him that while there had been some good stuff between us, I wouldn’t be seeing him again and I needed him to leave me alone.
Thanks for helping me find the right words to clear my head and get out a bad situation where I wasn’t valued or loved.