How Much Lying Is Acceptable Online?

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Hi Evan,

I’m fairly new to your site, and to dating in general – back on the market after a long marriage – so, at this point, I’m mainly trying to figure out how things work, and what the unwritten rules and policies of the dating game are. I’ve had an account on a dating site for the last two months. I’ve had a decent number of peoplecontact me, and we mostly click fairly well when we meet in person. However, one thing that I notice puzzles me – it seems like no one bothers to list accurate information about themselves on their profile. I’m OK with people withholding, but I see things on men’s profiles that turn out to be downright misleading.

Don’t get me wrong. I wouldn’t get too upset if a guy’s profile picture is five years old, or if he’s really 5’8″ and not 5’10.” What I keep finding out, though, are things like “some college” means “no education past high school,” or that “work in research” means “factory worker at a plant whose clients are R&D companies,” and a white-collar technical profession listed on a profile really means “been out of work for some years.”

And “divorced” means “separated with no court date in sight!” And these are the nicer ones…

My problem with misleading pieces of information like these is that I don’t know what else to expect. Can this person even be trusted? What else is he lying to me about? How can I tell if he just posted a little white lie on his profile, so he can get a first date and show me what a nice person he really is, or if he’s a con man through and through? Lastly, where do I draw the line? At what point does it stop being cute and start being a big deal? After all, here I am, meeting with total strangers from the Internet, and, like it or not, I have my personal safety to worry about. I did a search on your blog before I sat down to write this letter, and found a blog article where you say that it is okay to stretch the truth a little, just to get your foot in the door. Which I more or less agree with, but my question is, how can I tell between “a little” and “a lot?”

In the online dating world, how much lying is okay, and how much is considered too much? What are the red flags? Hope you can advise. Thanks!

Timely letter.

I just got back from a week-long vacation and discovered in my inbox a link to this eye-opening article posted by the fine folks at OkCupid, entitled “The Big Lies People Tell in Online Dating.” However, for all of the dating site’s advanced metrics and data, the subtitle of the piece could simply have been, “Duh.”

OkCupid merely confirmed what you and me –and everyone else who has ever dated online has seen ourselves – there is no detail small enough to resist exaggerating. The only things you may find surprising are that women lie about their height and income just as much as men do. Seriously. So no more self-righteous emails about men, okay?

Lying isn’t something that only others do. Like speeding and getting “creative” on your taxes, lying online is something that “we” do as a form of semi-accepted rule-breaking.

What I found fascinating was that the older you are, the more likely you are to lie.

Older people lie because they need to lie to get attention from the most desirable people.

You may conclude that people over the age of 35 are simply less ethical. That they’re more jaded. Less comfortable around computers. Perhaps life has burned them too many times. Maybe the civics courses in the 70’s were less effective because of Watergate. Really, I could spin any number of cockamamie theories, but the truth is much simpler.

Older people lie because they need to lie to get attention from the most desirable people.

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83 Comments »Filed Under Online Dating

83 Responses to “How Much Lying Is Acceptable Online?”

David 1

What? No comments yet?
About a year ago, I dated a woman I met online who listed her profile as “42″ (I was 38). We dated about a year, and had a great time together. Towards the end, she came to me with a confession. I expected the worst.
But she said “I’m 48″. Phew! I thought it was something serious.
I can completely understand why she wouldn’t put “48″ on her online-dating profile.
She generally liked to date younger men (35-42) vs older men (47-55). She was very physically fit, very active; and the older men she had dated in the past were very “middle aged” to her. Not able to keep up, etc. She wasn’t really looking to get married, she already had kids, and found the men in the 35-42 age group were her ideal dating partners.
On the other hand, I have an acquaintance who just had her 41st b-day. She lists on her profile that she’s 35. Probably for a lot of the same reasons as the woman above. However, this woman is looking to get married and hopefully have a child. IMHO, this is a bit mis-leading. Her “clock” is ticking very loud.
An interesting topic, should make for a lively debate.
Ruby 2

It may be “easier” for younger folks to tell the truth, but the 24 year old man who is short still might be “too short” for many women his age, and the overweight 24 year old woman might still be “too heavy” for most men in her age range. And most people would rather fib a bit to get a foot in the door, than tell the truth and get few – or no- responses.

I’ve lied about my age on-line by as much as 5 years, but I’m careful to make sure that none of my photos are more than a year old, and that at least one has been taken in the last 3-6 months. I don’t want to meet someone who doesn’t have a basic attraction to me as I look today. I’m constantly told I look about 7-10 years younger, so men never seem to guess (at least as far as I know)! And I’ve removed my info from data mining sites so no one can check me out anyway. That’s my only fib. Otherwise, I’d say I’m just as honest, if not more so, than many men I’ve met online, who also lie about their age (some by 10-15 years), height, marital status, education, relationship goals, health, and post 10-year-old photos.
starthrower68 3

@ David, #1…

So it’s ok for the women who doesn’t want to get married to fib about her age, but for the one who does, it’s not ok? I find that fascinating.
Liz 4

I’d say white lies and outright lies are probably frustrating, but par for the course in online dating. I’d try not to let it get me too upset. Don’t give up on it!
Diana 5

At the risk of sounding holier than thou, and maybe not to be believed, I refuse to lie in my profile, despite the setbacks for not doing so. I do not fudge my age or weight, my children at home status, or include overstated platitudes, etc. While I can understand why others would do this, I just wouldn’t feel comfortable lying about myself.

It is true that my not lying has a tendency to bring attention from individuals who I do not feel are right for me, and I understand this. I am not insecure about these issues.

As for a man’s insecurities and how he may fudge his own stats, if it’s fairly innocuous, like a couple of inches re: his height, that’s alright. But the problem with lying about things such as marital status, employment, etc. is that if he feels the odds are pretty strong they’re deal breakers, then lying about them isn’t going to help, and will likely guarantee they’re definite deal breakers. Trying to just get your foot in the door sounds desperate.
Liz 6

@Starthrower: I think his point is that the woman is trying to target family-oriented men, while disguising an age that would probably elimate many if not all men who want biological children with their partner.

If I were a male dater, let’s say 37, who wanted to start a family, and I went on five dates with a 35yo woman who seemed promising, I’d be PISSED to find out she was 41. Because that lie takes away six viable childbearing years. And fist-time fertility for women in their forties is often no picnic. Not all the time, but much of the time. I’d be mad.
Liz 7

Seems like most people who lie online rationalize it. Like saying “But I look 5 years younger than I am!” to excuse an age fib.
Margaret 8

Evan, I think you came down a bit hard on the letter-writer. Your tone is vitriolic at best: “Because the truth is: you WON’T go out with the 5’6” guy, the guy in the wheelchair, or the guy who makes less than you. Don’t deny it. The evidence to support my assertion is overwhelming.”
Just because statistically most women won’t go out with these types of guys doesn’t mean that no one will, and it certainly doesn’t mean that she won’t.
Diana 9

I am leery of posted high incomes because I think that in most cases, they’re not true. It makes me wonder why they feel the need to inflate themselves. It feels like they’re trying to impress or catch the kind of woman where a man’s salary is so vital to her, or to try and show a status of success. To me, a man’s true success is not in what he earns.
Diana 10

Evan [and Margaret #8], I thought about responding to this comment, too. I’m only 5′ 3.5″, so anything my height or better is fine with me, and I’ve stated before how I feel re: a lesser salary. I was also contacted by a guy in a wheelchair, and I very much appreciated his vulnerability and his honesty. He had the good sense to know that to not be upfront about this would have made for an uncomfortable situation upon discovery.
Evan Marc Katz 11

@Diana: The reason that they need to inflate themselves is because women OVERWHELMINGLY care about a guy’s salary. This is the world we’re living in. Men care about youth and looks. Women care about age, height, education, salary. This is why people feel the need to lie. That’s the point of my post.
Karl R 12

Evan said:
“this plan backfires 90% of the time,”

The other 10% of the time, lying was unnecessary in the first place.

Think about it. David (#1) discovered that his girlfriend was 6 years older than she said. Why was that okay? She was athletic, looked good, and he didn’t mind dating someone 10 years older than him. She might not have shown up in his searches, but I’d be willing to bet that he would have responded to an email from her.

Ruby said: (#2)
“That’s my only fib. Otherwise, I’d say I’m just as honest, if not more so, than many men I’ve met online,”

Let’s say that you meet a man online whose only fib is his marital status (he’s really still married). Do you find this lie to be more acceptable because he’s “just as honest, if not more so,” than many women he’s met online?

Try explaining why you lied to the person like Diana (#5) or me who didn’t lie at all. We know lots of other people lie online. Despite that, we chose not to do it.

Ruby said: (#2)
“I’m constantly told I look about 7-10 years younger,”

It’s called flattery.

Try betting a stranger $20 that they can’t guess your age (plus or minus five years). Let me know if you win that bet more often than you lose it.
Steve 13

Obviously, this plan backfires 90% of the time

Bingo. The truth has to come out some time.
Sara 14

I don’t condone lying in general, obviously, but online dating is weird in that you can set arbitrary limits on things that ultimately have very little to do with compatibility and attraction. Two inches, three years, 10 pounds, 10K per year in income will not generally make the difference between whether you are attracted to someone in real life, or compatible with him/her, but if you’re searching an online dating site, those things can certainly determine whether you’ll take a look at someone’s profile or not. I would tend to be pretty forgiving of things like this, if all other signs pointed to an honest person.
I don’t think it’s really the same or fair to lie about having children, or marital status (divorced v. separated), however – those are hard lines that are easier to draw, and I don’t think it’s fair to would-be mates to pretend your situation is something that it’s not.
Goldie 15

Letter writer here, hi guys and girls I actually find the answer helpful. Here’s why. My approach to life in general is, as my kids put it, I “worry too much”. So what went through my head after talking to all the fine gentlemen mentioned in my email, was – okay, so I don’t really know anything about this guy. He just told me what’s on his profile is not true. How do I know if he’s telling me the truth now? What *is* the truth about him? If I go on a date with him, can I guarantee I’ll come back home to my kids? If he wants to pick me up at my place, is it safe to tell him where I live? That‘s the type of stuff I was thinking, not “OMG next thing I’m going to find out that he makes 5K less than I do and he’s really 5’6″ on heels! Oh the horrors.” So it’s good to know that online fibbing isn’t an indicator of anything else, other than the guy’s insecurity. (Not the most attractive quality in a man, either, but, to an extent, I can live with it.)

Also, I actually might give the guy a chance even if he doesn’t fit my checklist precisely. If he sounds interesting to me, and we click, why not? As long as he’s upfront about it, so I know what to expect!

Personally, believe it or not – I listed everything about me like it is. Every picture I have on my profile is no more than a year old. My reasoning was – well, if I’ve got to lie about myself to get a date with a man, then maybe he’s not the one I need. If he cannot accept me for what I am, then how am I going to date him? If I lie about my looks, I won’t get past the first date anyway; if I lie about things like education, marital status, what have you, the truth will come out anyway eventually and I will lose him then. Why the heck bother? Like Evan said, things could’ve been different if I had less to offer. But I figure that, the way I am in real life, I’ve got to attract enough people for me to choose from. If I’m not good enough for a guy, just the way I am in real life, then I won’t attract him, no matter what. Even if we end up dating, it won’t be fun, and it won’t be long. I am not interested if he cannot be interested. BTDT

I just needed help understanding why someone would feel otherwise. I am referring only to men in my email, not because I think men are the only ones who do this, but because I haven’t tried dating women, so I have no idea how things are on that end

Have to add, I don’t understand the salary part at all. First off, the site I’m on right now doesn’t have people’s incomes listed on their profiles. But, even if it did, I’d probably skip that part, because how the heck am I going to find out the truth? Ask to see his paystub? his W2? And what for? If we have common interests, similar professional levels, similar lifestyles, then I’ll just assume he is somewhere in my salary range, if not higher, and leave it at that. How’s that relevant anyway? I’m not looking to get married and join our finances. So, yeah, I *will* go out with a guy who makes less than me, and I won’t probably even find out that he does, all other things being equal.
Diana 16

Hi Evan ~ I know. I think it was your emphatic tone that seemed to be saying that every woman is this way. I’m just different I guess. It’s sad when people allow others to make them feel that they have to lie about who they are in order to meet someone.
A-L 17

I’m with Goldie and Karl about why I didn’t lie in my profile. And Goldie, do not give your address to the guy until you’ve at least met up in person at some neutral location for at least one date, and as many more as you need to feel comfortable with this guy knowing that info (though if it takes a lot of dates you might want to question if you actually want to be dating this guy).

I think if a person reveals his or her lie of their own volition, then it’s not as much of a character flaw than if they never fess up and you find out about it through some other means. It’s sort of like Evan’s advice about lying on the age issue. Put a lower number in the system, but reveal your real age in the text of your profile (or at the latest in e-mails, phone convo, or at the latest on 1st or 2nd date). Longer than that and I start to think it’s a character flaw. I understand the idea of getting your foot in the door, but continuing on with some false charade just seems to indicate one is a liar.
Stacy 18

Oh, this is a good one. Back when I was online, i got a fair share of those lies. My all time favorites are “i am in real estate” (from a superintendant) and “i run a hedge fund” – from a guy who was in operations at a large hedge fund (for non-finance folks – portfolio managers run hedge funds, operations guys are merely support personnel, a step above guys who stuff fridge with water)
Cat 19

@Goldie. You definitely do NOT need to give a guy your address until you’ve met him in public enough times to feel comfortable. I’ve found that guys who date online are generally more understanding of women’s need to be cautious then, say, someone you’ve met at a party or through friends.

And I totally agree about having recent pictures up. I don’t know why some of these guys wouldn’t prefer to be rejected online than in person!

I’m on Match.com, and I’ve been surprised to find so many men asking for women with specific incomes and height. I’m 5’1″ barefoot, but I’m rarely barefoot. I’ll be 5’4″ or taller on the date with heels so I get confused when guys ask for a certain height! (A lot of them put 5’3″ as a minimum height for a lady to be, then they disregard what they asked for and write to me anyway. Go figure.)
Diana 20

Hi Goldie. For safety’s sake, always meet a new date in a public place, let others know who you are meeting and where, and about how long you will be gone. Do not provide your home address or home phone number. Providing your cell number is safer. I recommend meeting in a public place for the first three dates. Honestly, the odds are that the first date will not lead to a second, and you don’t want a relative stranger to have that kind of information.

As for how can you know if he may be lying, that’s tricky. Even in real life where you might meet a new man who asks you out, he can be filling your head with a pack of lies, though clearly not how tall he is. How’s one to know? You don’t. You just have to listen carefully, follow your gut instinct, and use some deductive reasoning.

What did the man lie about in his profile, and what was his reasoning for it?
Lulubell 21

This post gets to my biggest problem with online dating…that dishonesty is supposed to be an acceptable part of the system. I am really looking to find a life partner, and I state that in my profile, so why should I just accept that it will start by having a date with someone who lied about age/height/job/marital status/whatever…just to get a first date? I agree with Goldie and Karl R, that these are NOT the kind of people I want to meet, because it is a slippery slope. A white lie about age can easily become a white lie about overspending on credit cards, meeting another woman for “just a drink” or whatever. I am NOT a suspicious person….really can be too trusting….which is why I take these lies as red flags.

My profile is honest, and it has likely limited my “volume” since I am honest about my age (51). I think Evan has a reasonable solution, using a fake age for sort purposes and then coming clean in the text. But, I don’t resort to that, because I don’t want a man who is shallow enough to not even date a woman his own age. IMHO, it’s his loss. And, luckily for me, there are actually guys online who will date an older woman, and they are smart not to limit their options. I kinda view this as a “law of attraction” thing…where I attract honest men by being honest. If everyone would adopt this mindset, just think how much better it would be?!?!?

Evan, I do understand your position, that you just report the truth, but I am disappointed that you took the easy way out to just blame it on the “system”. We ARE the system, and could change it if we really wanted. It would help to have some leadership in that area, from people like you.

Lastly, I think the OP needs some good advice on how to proceed….that it is best to have a few dates to get comfortable with a guy before letting him know her address. And, letting a friend know who she’s seeing, just as a safeguard. We all know that a white lie about marital status is NOT the same as fudging age or height. Hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Bill 22

The funny thing about online dating no one really believes anything thats listed online anymore. lol If it sounds too good to be true it is probably not true.
sayanta 23

Diana-

I’m with you- people keep telling me to fudge my age to 30 or 31 (at the ripe old age of 32, I’m ‘out of range’ for many men- who are actually the same age as me!) LOL

I can’t do it though- no reason other than it just doesn’t feel right to me- and if something doesn’t feel right, I don’t do it.
Ruby 24

Karl #12

First, let me state that I’m not saying that everyone should lie, and that it’s no big deal. It bothers me to do it, but my women friends who are older and who reveal their true ages don’t get many responses on-line, so I’ve done it. I’m not talking about 32-year-olds, I’m talking about women who are 45-50 and over. Of course, though, truth is best, because then there’s nothing to hide.

Still, I don’t feel that a woman knocking three years off her age is as bad as a man saying he’s single when he’s still married.

As far as people flattering me, I don’t think that women or platonic male friends and colleagues I meet have any reason to go out of their way to flatter me, and they guess my age to be younger as often as potential dates do. Besides, I’d never knock 7-10 years off my age anyway.
Diana 25

Hey Sayanta ~ good for you! I’m turning 50 this year, and I love where my life is right now. If I have to change my age stat (or whatever) to get someone to ask me out, he’s not the kind of man I want. Besides ~ I can see and feel the way men look at me in real life. While I may not appear in a man’s searches because he’s pushing 60 and looking for 40 and younger, that’s okay. It doesn’t mean I don’t attract men. It only means he’s a dreamer who’s afraid to face reality.
Jane 26

I lie about my age all the time. I’m in my mid 30′s, but state that I am 29. Men never seem to mind if you actually do look like your photo and appear closer to your fake than real age AND if you are attractive. I actually prefer younger men. The biggest lie that women have been told is that Men get better looking with age. Some do, but most don’t. Looks and age matter to women as well.
Mr_Right 27

Hmmm. I went on quite a few online dates before I found my girl, and I went through a lot of lies on women’s profiles.

As a guy who values honesty, I started to get sick of women lying about what they do, what they look like, age, etc… I didn’t even understand the point. If they’re going to lie about what they look like, the truth will come out when you meet up. My tolerance level went down the more I dated.

I would think that the women out there are taking a real chance if they lie in their profile. Sure, you might get more hits, but a) is it really worth it; b) they’re going to find out eventualy; and c) if you can’t be honest with yourself, who can you be honest with.

And yes, my profile was accurate and honest. I left myself out there honestly, and I knew that the women who went out with me were getting who I was and who I looked like.
BeenThruTheWars 28

I detest smoking, have never smoked, am in fact allergic to smoke, and my profile indicated I wouldn’t date a regular smoker. My husband said in his profile that he was a “social smoker.” To me, that’s someone who might bum a cigarette off someone at a bar or at a party once in a while. So… I decided to give him a whirl anyway, as I liked everything else about his profile. His car was immaculate, he didn’t smell of tobacco, we spent hours together on dates and I never saw him light up once… or display any kind of niccing behavior… until after we were exclusive. Guess what? He was a pack-a-day smoker and hid it from me. He would practically polish his car ashtray and shampoo his upholstery before every date so I wouldn’t know. His friends gave him all kinds of grief about it (I found out much later). Once we were getting serious, right around the three-month mark (we were engaged at six months), out it came. By then, I was falling in love with him, so decided not to kick him to the curb, “because surely, he would quit one day.” Right? (Ha.)
So now, fast-forward almost six years later. Guess what the ONE thing we fight about is? Yep. His smoking. And he freely admits, “I have no one to blame but myself because I hid it from you.” He enjoys smoking and doesn’t want to quit; however, I’m sick of having my friends tell me I smell like smoke after being in his car. I’m tired of having my nose and eyes itch and run, and have to sit on ashes, any time I ride in his car. He only smokes outside, never in the house; and doesn’t smoke while I’m actually IN the car with him. But it’s still a real irritant for me, personally. I’m also concerned about his health, as he’s smoked regularly for almost 20 years. And I’m concerned about my health, breathing in second-hand ash and airborne particulates.
I guess it’s an example of how one person’s lie to “get in the door” with another person can create a serious bone of contention between them that lasts for years. As much as I love him, and as happy as we are in virtually every other regard? I wish I’d had the opportunity to make an informed choice from the beginning about whether I wanted to date him.
Joe 29

Two questions for the liars:

1) How soon do you reveal your true age (assuming you haven’t done the text reveal thing)?

2) What proportion of the guys you’ve spilled to continued to date you for more than a couple more dates?
Jonesey 30

I hate online dating. I will never do it again, it is such a weird experience. All the lying and misrepresentation and people disappearing and reappearing and not being at all what you want.

Thank god I have someone. Go out with someone you’ve known a long time. No way to lie. You already know each other.
Karl R 31

Ruby said: (#24)
“my women friends who are older and who reveal their true ages don’t get many responses on-line,”

- Short men who reveal their true height don’t get many responses.
- Poorer men who reveal their true income don’t get many responses.
- Unemployed men and women who reveal their true employment status don’t get many responses.
- Overweight men and women who reveal their true weight (or who show current, full body photos) don’t get many responses.
- Men without degrees who reveal their true education status don’t get many responses.
- Single mothers with kids at home who reveal their true family status don’t get many responses.
- Married men and women who reveal their true marital status don’t get many responses.

If there is any category where you’re inclined to rule someone out, some person is inclined to lie about it to increase the number of responses they get.

We rule people out for reasons that matter (at least to us). I ruled out women who lived hundreds of miles away because I didn’t want to buy a plane ticket just to kiss my girlfriend. The reason could be completely shallow, but it matters.

Think about the things that matter to you. Are you about to ignore them just because you had a first date with someone? Okay … you might ignore them if he’s drop dead gorgeous.

So if that’s the only thing that would cause you to overlook one of the criteria that matters to you, what on earth possesses you to believe that men will behave differently … unless you’re drop dead gorgeous.

Ruby said: (#24)
“I don’t think that women or platonic male friends and colleagues I meet have any reason to go out of their way to flatter me, and they guess my age to be younger as often as potential dates do.”

Why is it that everyone on this blog (including me) gets guessed as being 10 years younger than their actual age … often by platonic friends. It doesn’t make sense that everyone looks 10 years younger than their actual age. If that was the case, who are we comparing people to?

The reality is, we look 10 years younger than a few people our age who smoke, drink heavily or spend way too much time in the sun. We look 10 years younger than the people who have prematurely aged themselves.

I also look like an athelete compared to the morbidly obese. I look like a wealthy man compared to the impoverished. And I look extremely tall next to the American Society of Little People.
Zann 32

The Truth Will Set You Free!

I’m one of those “older” women who have been mentioned, age 57, and I never lie about my age, and it doesn’t seem to stop younger men from writing to me or dating me. But the truth of the matter is, I prefer to date men around my own age, because there’s just more common ground and I think that is what leads to a more in-depth relationship. To lie about your age (in my opinion) indicates you’re insecure about it, and insecurity is just not flattering. I once had a first meeting with a man who was just as attractive in person as his on-line pictures. After talking for a while, he admitted that he was actually 10 years older than the age in his profile. My immediate reaction was to feel like I’d been deceived, which I didn’t appreciate, and he suddenly seemed less attractive to me because of his lie. It was like he had broadcast his insecurity.

A man who’s confident about himself (not to be confused with arrogance) and comfortable with his true age is sexy to me. So, I assume men feel the same way about a woman’s honesty and self-assurance, so why lie?

But getting back to Goldie’s question, I don’t think there IS any fool-proof way to detect when someone you meet on-line is being dishonest. It’s a gamble you take when agreeing to meet up with a stranger. In my experience, though, most men do tell the truth in their profiles about who they are and how they look, or “within the ballpark” but they often have stories about women they’ve met who were dishonest in their profiles.

To me, it’s pointless to lie about yourself in your profile, because the truth will out, and then you wind looking very insecure…and insecurity, in my book, is just not flattering.
Selena 33

The thing about looking 10 years younger…you DO NOT look 10 years younger to someone who actually IS 10 years younger. Test this yourself: when was the last time you mistook someone 10 years older for your own age?
Steve 34

Why is it that everyone on this blog (including me) gets guessed as being 10 years younger than their actual age … often by platonic friends. It doesn’t make sense that everyone looks 10 years younger than their actual age. If that was the case, who are we comparing people to?
Well, aside from being lied to/flattered by the platonic friends as you imply, maybe we are looking at the people who over-lie about their age on online dating sites?
The whole lying about age thing didn’t sink in for me until I started seeing profiles where I thought “Wow, this person looks like hell for ____ years of age” and read on blogs like this one that lying about age is common.
JB 35

8/6/2010

@Evan #11 – “men care about youth and looks.Women care about age,height,education,and salary”
I’m pretty sure you can throw in LOOKS in that women’s list,maybe not at the top but at least second.

@Goldie #15 -”If I lie about education,marital status,etc…the truth will come out anyway eventually and I’ll lose him then.”
No you won’t,not if he’s attracted to you,likes you and is having a great time with you.Are YOU that replaceable Goldie? Men are men and those are just stats.

@BeenThruTheWars #28- you’re a saint.Never the less….I smoke 2 or 3 cigarettes a week when I’m out with the guys.I’m certainly not going to put in my Match profile I’m an occasional smoker because it would virtually eliminate 90% of possible matches.I don’t smoke around women I’m dating.It’s not a woman I’ve never met’s business what I do when I’m not with them(assuming I’m not a crack head drunk…lol).So I put “non-smoker” and I always will.That’s a big difference from a “pack a day” smoker that always smells though and has to smoke when they’re on a date with you etc…. again I think you’re a saint ! You must really love the guy unconditionally.I’m pretty sure it was what helped end my relationship with a woman 5 yrs ago.Since then 2 a week and NEVER around women that don’t smoke.(unless I want to get rid of them…lol)
I think “smoking” is the #1 dating deal breaker for most people.
Obviosly men are little more forgiving on this one if a woman is hot!!..LOL

Getting back to the original topic………it would be a wonderful utopian world if noone ever HAD to lie in their profile and everyone would meet tons of people and live happily ever after but that’s delusional thinking and we live on Planet Earth. I’ll always do it and I just expect every woman I email is doing it to some extent.You want to know a funny thing,I don’t see that much difference in the amount of success I have even with the”stretched truth”profile because I still look the way I look and my job IS what it IS.I don’t lie on either of those.
Oh and just so you all know…long before the internet when some of us “pioneers” were doing newspaper/magazine personals in 1990 by snail mail everyone was lying then too.It’s human nature.

Bottom line is, nothing matters until you MEET someone anyway because then you can at least place a real beginning value on them(assuming you enjoyed a phone conversation etc…).If you’re not attracted to them does it matter if they lied about their age,weight,income,education etc….They could of been honest about all 4 you could still be NOT attracted to them OR they could of lied about all 4 and you could think they’re “HOT”and hit it off! I’ve been in both spots. Ladies,if a guy finds you physically attractive and he likes your personality he can let a lot of things slide….LOL Just my opinion.
Marc 36

Until dating sites require members to come to their offices for in-person interviews to validate what they’ve written about themselves in their profiles, online daters are doomed to decoding lies. 5’10 is 5’7…average medium build is 20 extra pounds, 35 is really 47, etc. Once you’ve done the online thing for a bit, you become adept at deciphering these sad little lies people tell to get noticed. They’re kind of like the phantom tag at second base during a double play, or the extra step an NBA player takes before dunking the ball – minor infractions that are ignored to keep the game moving. I’ve always found the first phone call to be a great way to weed out the truly undateable.
Christie Hartman, PhD 37

This is a great topic, and I just blogged on it the other day.

When I get involved in discussions on this topic, the overwhelming thing that hits me is this: the problem isn’t just that people are deceptive, it’s also that online daters often have unrealistic criteria for what they’re looking for. Studies have shown that what online daters say they want is NOT the same as what they’re willing to actually try. In other words, the woman who says she wants a 6-foot tall guy is actually willing to date a shorter one. This is true with height, weight, age, income, and education. I have seen this anecdotally as well. Case in point: online, men almost always say they want women their age or younger. Yet in the offline world, I get interest from younger men on a regular basis.

My point? Deception, to some extent, is a reaction to this tendency people have to be excessively picky online. Why would any man exaggerate his height if he knew women were looking for a quality man rather than screening out all men under 5’10″?

Given that, I’m against deception – it’s irritating and it only makes you look insecure. No one’s perfect – be proud of who you are and put up a well-crafted profile highlighting your strengths. Confidence and being comfortable with yourself are more attractive than anything.
Evan Marc Katz 38

@Christie: Great line: “Deception, to some extent, is a reaction to this tendency people have to be excessively picky online.” That’s what I was trying to say, but couldn’t quite figure it out. Well done.
Diana 39

BeenThruTheWars #28, I feel your frustration. After more than 25 years together, I found out my former husband was a smoker. He didn’t share this with me, and I think that is what hurt and upset me the most. I found out via lab work. It sounds unbelievable, but there was no evidence of his smoking. I didn’t see him with a cigarette until after we divorced (not because of his smoking). He smoked whenever he felt stressed, so I think he’d go for months without lighting up. But his new lifestyle turned him into a much heavier smoker. I don’t tolerate smoke well at all, even though I grew up with a chain smoker ~ ugh. He died of cancer and heart failure.

Geez, this is depressing, thinking that anyone I might meet thru OLD is likely not as they presented themselves to be.
Steve 40

Selena 33
The thing about looking 10 years younger…you DO NOT look 10 years younger to someone who actually IS 10 years younger. Test this yourself: when was the last time you mistook someone 10 years older for your own age

Selena wins the excellent point of the day. I like to go back to my college town periodically to eat at a favorite Chinese restaurant. It really straightens out my perspective on how old I am and how young I am.
Steve 41

@Evan #38

You and Christie have an excellent point. The problem is that there is no homeroom teacher to complain too about how unfair it is. People are still going to be picky online, right or wrong. All is fair in love and war. FWIW, I think there are more than a few people out there who find it sexy when someone chooses not to live by that, even if it means they lose in the short run.
BeenThereDoneThat 42

I am honest in my profile. If someone chooses to pass me by because I’m 40, I’m ok with that. I pass by men based on age as well, too old and too young. I just can’t imagine saying to someone down the road “you know, I wasn’t honest about . . . “. To each their own.

My teenage daughter and her friend whom I’d never met before were meeting me at the park to watch 4th of July fireworks. As they started to approach my blanket, my daughter’s friend asked “why are we going to see a teenager?” My daughter responded, “we’re not. That’s my mom.”
sayanta 43

Diana-

I’m so sorry about your husband…that’s such a horrible thing to go through.

I don’t know about the whole lying thing- like I said, I dont’ lie about my age, but I think some of you read my former posts, where I said I had a really hot pic up but was getting few responses- my profile was very deep, intense, passionate- which, I think, is how I am- didn’t tell my whole life story, but gave a good picture of me. Girlfriends said it was amazing.

Anyway…got sick of getting no responses- so I ‘dumbed’ it down- I don’t sound like a total ditz, but a lot less ‘deep and passionate’ than my old profile.

I got 20 e-mails and winks in one day.

So, I should be happy, right? Nope- crying miserable actually. Some of these men were ones who’d passed me over with the old profile.

Why the misery? Because this new profile isn’t really ‘me’ as much as the old one was. And it makes me think that maybe…(and I’m not saying this out of despair, but more detached resignation) I’m just not meant to connect with men. Not that I’m lesbian (it would make things easier if I were, actually- LOL), but in real life I’ve never been able to bond emotionally with men- and online, there’s even less of a chance for it happening. I mean- I can’t become a completely different person just because it’ll please guys. I guess that’s how the world works- but, that’s why I’ve always loved my fantasy novels.

I advised someone on this blog that sometimes, some people are too broken to be in a relationship- that they have to work things out about themselves first. I think I’m one of those people I gave that advice too- don’t know if I’m ‘broken’ exactly, but dating/relationships…I’m one of those people who can’t handle this process, and I accept that.
Roger 44

We have only ourselves to Blame!

By choosing only those who are tall, good looking,young, thin, well off and educated, we have forced those who do not meet ALL those criteria to lie to get a chance at romance. Honestly, how many people meet ALL those criteria? Do you? This is like ordering a lover out of a catalog. Who would choose less than great ratings on all the criteria?

What is the average person to do? be honest and give up their chance at having some one special in their lives?Should all but the top 5% of the single population stop wasting their money at Match.com or what ever?
I propose that people get over their demand for a great profile and behave as they do in the face-to-face world. If one looks around the “real” world, you notice that many people are paired off who would not be considered ideal on-line matches–over weight, mismatched height, not that good looking….. Yet they have chosen each other. Why? Because they did not place an order from a catalog, but rather met a living human being and developed a relationship over time.
Of course, these people have some requirements that must be met to make a relationship work, but there are obviously more trade-offs being made than we online daters are willing to make.
Roger
Helen 45

Sayanta, I would be more optimistic, both toward yourself and toward these men.

No one, male or female, feels really comfortable with a huge dose of heaviness and life philosophy immediately upon meeting someone new. I LOVE deep conversations on all topics, but getting too much at once from someone I’ve just met seems like oversharing. An example: I was recently on a business trip and meeting a colleague for the first time; we’d exchanged emails but never actually met. Upon our meeting, he immediately started talking about all kinds of issues he’d had at his former workplace, and his family… It didn’t turn me off to him, but I did find it strange and somewhat inappropriate.

So, relax. Your having a “light” profile does not mean that you’re dumbing yourself down or are not genuinely an intense person. Nor does it mean that the men responding to you are airheads. Get to know them first, in person, before you decide that. In fact, sometimes you can know someone for a long time without uncovering their deep and passionate side; then, when you do, it’s always a delight.
Karl R 46

sayanta said: (#43)
“I’ve never been able to bond emotionally with men”

What do you mean by “bond emotionally”?

The reason I ask is because I’ve read a few fantasy novels that use concepts that could be described that way … and there’s a reason that they’re fantasy novels.

On the other hand, you could just be using the term for something fairly normal that I would describe in other words. So could you explain to me what the difference is between a relationship (such as a friendship) where there is an emotional bond and a similar relationship where there isn’t one?
Diana 47

Well, I don’t know about the rest of you, but I know I look years younger [LOL]. And that’s the truth. So there.

Sayanta, thank you for your kindness.
A-L 48

Sayanta,

Helen makes an excellent point in #45. A lot of people aren’t into overly intense beginnings, on an online profile or in life, but are people who enjoy deep and intense things once they get to know you.

As far as your profile goes, think about the traits that you think a guy that you would be interested in would want. Then think about how you have those traits, and what short anecdotes you could share to illustrate those traits. Because remember, an online profile is not a biography. It’s an ad. You’re trying to market yourself to the guys you’re interested in. So it should be interesting to them, and focus on what would grab their attention. They don’t need to know all about you; they just need to find out enough to want to contact you. That’s it. Subsequent communications (e-mail, phone, and dates) will allow the two of you to learn more about each other and see if you’re a good fit.
Amit 49

I think that lying is not acceptable at all!! I feel that profiles should be truthful otherwise all you’re doing is saving the “brutal truth” for later. It’s going to come out one way or the other so might as well just have it there up front.
I don’t think that it’s necessary to have a long overdrawn profile to be a good one that tells a lot about you. Maybe a story about something from you life can be a great way to tell someone about yourself without involving too much philosophy.
Sayanta 50

Ok- so I just re-read my post and I was seriously cringing. Thanks guys, again, for all your insight. (and for putting up with me)

You know what- even though I was in drama queen/victimhood mode yesterday big time- there is truth in what I wrote. I really do feel, whether it’s right or wrong, that women go out of their way to appeal to men, whereas men don’t do the same for us. I mean, I’m sitting there updating my profile constantly, and the guys are there with these stream of consciousness- I like to ‘work hard and play hard’ issues- and I’m sure they’re getting more dates than I do!

All I know is dating really does put me on an emotional rollercoaster- and I’ve definitely got to work on fixing that before I go on Match or anywhere else.

A-L- THanks for your how-to, though- when I feel I am ready to do really do this in a detached, relaxed way, I’ll try to revamp my ‘image’ using what you’ve said (I mean, it obviously worked for you )
A-L 51

Thanks, Sayanta, but I’m pretty sure that a lot of what I said has already been said…by Evan. But I’m glad that you’re in a better place today and hope that things just continue to improve from here for you.
JerseyGirl 52

Is everyone familiar with HGTV? That home improvement channel that show cases all the ways to improve your home to make it enticing to sellers or just shows general home improvements? No one is happy anymore with laminate counter tops or carpeted floors. Everyone wants granite counter tops and hardwood floors. Even the guy/girl that works at McDonalds.
This is part of the problem. People equate their worth to the value society puts on the “quality” of their possesions. And this translates to people. When our grandparents and parents where getting married, falling in love, they were not inundated with a million images about what they “deserved”. They did not have an endless catalog of potential “love” interests at their fingertips that rivals the books at the New York Public Library. People lie because they want to be accepted. Period. Whether it’s your boyfriend lying to you about loving your parents or the guy lying about his height. And sometimes people lie to themselves about their own “worth”.
BeenthereDonethat 53

@ Sayanta

I remember once that Mr. Right posted how many dates he’d been on before meeting his fiance/wife. I wish I could remember which post it was on. Anyway, I was surprised at the high number. And it helped me realize that just because I haven’t met someone yet, its not time to give up when I haven’t gone on 10% of his number of dates. Keep your chin up.
Annie 54

@43.

I’ve felt the same way, and to a degree I still do. But I’ve met a couple of guys in the last few years who, after being casual and fun friends for a while, showed their deeper nature to me.

Men communicate differently, and they aren’t usually “deep” at first. But mainly because I’ve found that men take a while to trust some-one with their feelings. I think men are actually hurt more, by some-one disregarding their private thoughts so they are more closed and sensitive.

For men, emotional intimacy takes time.

As an example, I’ve become friends with a man (firstly just online), where we’ve chatted and had a lot of feisty, fun conversations. Then, after almost 2 years, he shares with me his love of native america flute playing(he’s native america), that he released a CD that sold very well, and that he really tries to be in touch with his emotions through music. I listened to his music, and I never would have imagined that such a fun, cocky kind of guy had some a lovely deep side to him.

He shares it with very few.

This is why I tend to ignore initial chemisty. Because it doesn’t show depth, just lust. Believe in yourself, and just be yourself. A deeper male, who loves to think, discuss and respects a thoughtful woman, will notice you, even if it takes a little time for him to get “deep”. And, have fun. Don’t worry.

Cheers
Annie
Selena 55

@#52

Great post Jersey. I totally agree.

As an aside, I stopped watching HGTV because I got tired of looking at identically furnished homes. In 10 years the hard wood floors, granite countertops, and stainless steel appliances are going to look every bit as dated as the choclate carpeting, dark wood cabinets, and avocado green appliances of the 1970′s did a decade later.

Now I browse Houzz.com and enjoy looking diversely designed rooms instead.
christina 56

But I dint understand why people lie, when they know that truth cant be hidden, and they will loose anyone they are lying to. I think relationship is build on confidence, but if the base of relationship starts from lie then relationship will be highly imbalanced. And you loose your respect also. So to loose your dignity by lying better find someone who will aspect you for what you are. I know this is difficult but not impossible. this is what I think…
morgan 57

I’m pretty black and white on this one – no lies, in any form, anywhere in the profile.

My profile is completely honest but I’m lucky in that I don’t feel like I need to mislead anyone. Yes, I’m sure I’d get more suitors if I said I was younger (I’m 45) but the dishonesty (even when you ‘fess up in the body of your profile) sets a bad precedent.

My past experience of people who haven’t been altogether honest in their profiles, suggests that these people aren’t altogether comfortable with aspects of themselves – be it their age, body shape, whatever. As far as I’m concerned gliding the lily is a red flag.
Plan 58

I started online dating for the very first time a few weeks ago. I suppose I’m unusually honest, because my age is listed truthfully, all my photos are very recent (weeks old), and I was pretty self-deprecating in my profile. The only thing that was a slight stretch is my height — I’m 5’9″ and change instead of 5’10″, but I’m not sure half or a quarter of an inch makes a difference when I’m 5’11″ in shoes anyway.
The salary issue is absurd to me and a big warning sign to stay away from women who are overly concerned with it.
I’m a young guy, I work in journalism and I make a decent salary. Not terrible, not great. But I can leave and take a job in PR if I want. I have the experience to more than double my salary by switching fields.
But from my perspective, a woman who thinks the salary thing is make-or-break would never, ever have a chance anyway. I would like someone with a brain, a genuine, good person who values real things, thanks very much. Peace to all the vapid women, and good luck with the Wall Street types
C. 59

BeenThruWars, I’ve experienced this with my ex, and we didn’t meet online. He was a smoker but the party that I met him at he wasn’t smoking because he was trying to quit. But he couldn’t quit and hid it from me..until after I already fell for him. By 6 months he would smoke in front of me, and he got testy if I complained about it. It wasn’t the only reason we broke up, but it was a source of arguing, and at times I felt like he was purposely blowing smoke in my face. At least your husband doesn’t smoke around you..best of luck!
So now that I’m dating online, I only respond to non-smokers. If a guy lies about it to get his foot in the door with me, well, that could pose a major problem down the line. Am I being to picky? Perhaps, but its based on knowing what has been a problem in the past. Why would I want to go through that again?
Christie Hartman, PhD 60

@Evan – thanks, glad I was able to offer something helpful.
JerseyGirl (#52) makes several good points. Just like selling a house, we’re selling ourselves to the other sex when we date, and we all want to be the beautiful house in the great neighborhood that everyone wants.
Nancy 61

I am tall for a women, 5’8″, and thin. When men lie about their height I notice it immediately, obviously, and that is a major turn off. Ditto weight/build. A guy who looks like he is smuggling bowling balls under his shirt is not athletic/muscular build. I have friends who are female who do the same thing. Lying about a physical attribute is just plain dumb, it is something that is immediately apparent.
JerseyGirl 62

I also think that people tend to be more critical online. I see it in myself. I will look at a guys picture or see something he said and be quick to wrinkle my nose. But if I saw that guy in a real setting, in real life, i probably wouldn’t. I’ve noticed that about myself and I am sure others have had that exerience to. And it’s not even that I am more forgiving in real life when I meet men. It’s just that it’s a more authentic experience then cataloging men by height, income, interests online.
And lets be honest. No one wants to be lied to. But come on, we all lie in some way or have lied at some point. Maybe not for online dating but no one is perfect. Just because you lied once doesn’t mean you aren’t trust worthy. So I try to cut the men that I know have lied some slack. I recongnize it’s something they thought wouldn’t make them an attractive canidate. They might be insecure about this. As long as it’s something small like his height…big deal. But if he lies about something like being married or having kids and not being open about that, that would be different.
Joe 63

@ JerseyGirl #62:

People are quick to judge online–with the minutest criteria–because the next person is only a click away, and there are hundreds of them. If you’re meeting someone at a party, there are usually only a few other people you could meet. If you don’t like a guy’s nose online, you click “next.” You’re introduced to someone at a party and don’t like his nose, but you spend a few minutes talking to him because it’d be rude not to, and you find out that he’s really interesting.
Christie Hartman, PhD 64

Whether lying is tolerable also depends on what they’re lying about. Lying about height, weight, or age, while annoying and inadvisable, is at least somewhat harmless. Lying about marital status (saying you’re divorced when you’re separated, or worse, saying you’re single when you’re married) is much more serious. Years ago, I had a beer with a man who lied online about having a child, and admitted it during the date. He said he did it because he felt that “some women are shallow” – i.e. that they won’t date him if he admits to having a child. He was very sour about the online dating experience and never once recognized his own role in his problems.
Cat 65

Not only is lying about martial status more serious, it can even be a suable offense in some states, including NC, Illinois, Mississippi, New Hampshire, New Mexico, South Dakota and Utah (at last count.) Just do a search for “criminal conversation” and “alienation of affection” lawsuits. For a sobering breakdown of the various offenses, look here. [Link no longer available.] Mentioned several times: “It is not a defense that: the defendant did not know the other person was married.” Alienation of affection doesn’t even require proof of extramarital sex.

How costly is it? A NC jury gave the wronged wife a $9 million settlement.

Personally, I don’t want to date a guy until he’s divorced. (I know Evan has a few interesting exceptions, such as this one.) The fact that it’s suable in my state makes me even more cautious…
Laine 66

In response to the original question : I recommend not emailing guys endlessly, preferring to speak on the phone fairly soon. This gives you the chance to ask pertinent questions

” I see on your profile you are divorced…how long has it been?. or I love that pic of you smiling in a restaurant and the food looks great.Whats your favourite dish there…etc”

Most people will not lie outright when speaking like this in normal conversation. If they do there are often hesitations. I think it is plain crazy to agree to meet someone if you have not talked on the phone. Vet via the phone. Saves a lot of time and energy

For the first date only meet for a quick coffee. Again, not much time or energy invested if they are not who they portrayed. I wouldn’t agree to have dinner with a total stranger if we met in real llfe, say at a book shop for instance, but I would go for a quick coffee. Same thing needs to happen online.

I dont think anyone should have to reveal their age on line either. Its personal. If you met at the bookshop you wouldn’t be asking the person their age..you are either attracted to the whole package or you are not. Recent photos are very important..much more than the age being out by a few years.

So for me the trick is to screen, screen, screen via the phone in a fun way. The dulcet tones of a persons voice and the ease of conversation between the two of you will let you know if it someone worth the time and energy to meet.

Good Luck
Goldie 67

@Cat #65: Apparently, most states (including mine – whew) have enacted legislation to abolish the right to bring an alienation of affection lawsuit.
Full list is here: http://marriage.about.com/od/legalities/a/alienation.htm I agree, if it were suable in my state, that to me would be scary enough to abandon all online dating altogether (since people seem to withhold or change that information in their profiles), and only date close friends that I know well. Scary!
Cat 68

Goldie #67, I still do online dating! Otherwise, I’d severely limit my ability to date. But I’m careful. What’s that Russian proverb? Trust but verify.

Evan has a great, comprehensive guide to online dating that is a must for anyone who’s new to online dating or not getting the results they want.
Kat Wilder 69

I used to fudge my age by a few years, until I went on a coffee-meet date with a guy and, while discussing our experience with online dating, he called me on it.

And, he was right! So, I stopped.

Instead of hoping to show up on someone’s radar, I began writing to men who interested me, feeling (perhaps with some cockiness) confident that my picture and profile description would be sufficient to interest an intelligent man. And, it did, many times, and men would tell me how I “didn’t look my age.” (whatever my age looks like; who knows?) And that’s how my BF and I got together years ago.

@lulubell makes sense. Once we allow honesty to be flexible, we’re in trouble.
Orlando Singles 70

Lying is such a waste of time and energy. Why bother to get responses at all if they are going nowhere as soon as the other person realizes you lied. Let’s face it, none of us are perfect. Therefore, you probably aren’t going to meet a perfect person on line just because they sound so good. I think reality is best. Lay the cards on the table and deal with “what is” not “what you wish is.” And by the way, I’m over 35. Thanks for the chance to voice my opinion.
starthrower68 71

@Orlando #70,

You are correct, but we all have this mistaken notion we are going to find the *perfect* person on line, the one who doesn’t exist. And of course eHarmony and other dating sites who advertise and use only the best-looking members (assuming that they’re not just actors in some cases) perpetuate that notion. While I’m sure there are many who actually do read the profiles, I would say the majority of us don’t read them, if we don’t like the picture or there is no picture.
Tall 72

Lying is a dealbreaker for me. Three years on the age? Dealbreaker. It demonstrates an incredible lack of character. I actually felt nauseous after someone ’came clean’ and told me the truth about their age, employment, etc. If someone is going to pass you by because of 3 inches on height or 5 years on age, who cares? There are thousands more who will welcome you. I met a man 5 years ago who said in his profile that he was 5’6″. My first thought was: wow. This guy is either a midget or an honest man. I liked him because he really was 5’6″ and height was irrelevant to him. And so, it became irrelevant to me. I am 5’9″. We are still together. What I can’t figure out is why height is so important to women. Are there not things couples do in bed where the size of something else is more relevant? I have met many tall men who were ‘small’, limp, etc. It actually makes me laugh to think that women will choose height over quality, kindness, integrity, and ‘masculinity.’
Shay 73

I think people who have complicated relationships makes things complicated. One of these complications is lying or keeping quiet and not telling the truth.

I want a clean, healthy relationship and not get tied up in messy stuff. So, I don’t lie or support lying.
JB 74

8/26/10

@Tall #72
If someone passes you by because you’re 3 inches on height or 5 years on age who cares their are thousands more WILL welcome you.

That’s a statement coming from a woman who’s never been a man trying to date online.There’ AREN’T thousands more who welcome you.If that were true no men would lie because they would have too many options with 100% honest profile.There are very few for most average men.

And to try and explain to you why women prefer tall/taller men?……..It has nothing to do with sexual positions and everything to do with feeling feminine to the mans masculine. At 5’9″ I totally understand why women that are 5’8″ won’t answer me online.I don’t like it but I understand it.I actually prefer women that are shorter than me but I would never disqualify a woman who was attractive just because she was taller than me within reason.
No Crap 75

@Been Thru the Wars #28

If I found out a man was a smoker, I would drop him like a hot rock. Even if it were the day before the wedding, I would cancel the ceremony. If I found out after the wedding, I would have the marriage annulled or divorce him. Smoking is that much of an absolute deal breaker for me.

While I do sympatize because of the risks to your health, you knew what you were getting into. Maybe I’m just a hard-ass, but I can’t ever imagine being so much “in love” that I would be willing to risk lung cancer from second hand smoke. Don’t you feel betrayed? I would.
Slim P 76

I’ve posed this question here before – quite a while ago – but if someone can’t write their way out of a wet paper bag is it lying if they hire Evan here to help put together a profile? Actually I’m not quite sure exactly what it is that Evan does, but I gather creating a profile is part of it.
Personally I’d be upset if I responded to a well written profile, only to find a ghost writer lurking in the background. I’d figure that out before any sort of meeting, because I liked (taken) a fair amount of email chat first, but would be none too happy about the wasted time anyway. I suspect many might not.
Cat 77

Just like when someone hires a stylist (to dress better) or a personal trainer at the gym (to get a better looking body,) hiring a dating coach – or a personal trainer for love – is simply a smart choice to be successful at dating, especially in such a competitive arena as online dating where first impressions are everything. People can be terrible writers -”unable to write their way out of a paper bag” – but have very interesting lives and just need some help translating it into a good profile. Someone’s blah “I love to travel” becomes “I love walking the cobblestone streets in San Miguel de Allende, browsing the open market for locally woven rugs, hitting Alhombra behind the Parroquia for posole, and finishing the night with salsa dancing under the stars.” When someone helps you write a profile, it’s not lying; they’re helping you become specific about your experiences and desires.
tk 78

I went out on a date with a guy who listed 30 and was really 40. He looked really young, but I was turned off by the fact that he LIED!!! Sorry, you got thru the door, but you are not staying in. Honesty is always the best policy!
Kaitlyn 79

I think people lie in online dating because they can. In the ‘real world’ of dating, a man would never think of walking up to a woman asking her age, salary, if she was divorced or single…height, etc. Same thing with a woman meeting a man.

When online dating you can choose to only look at men/women that are between X and Y years of age, make $x amount, have X education,etc. It is strange if you think about it.
JB 80

11/19/10

@tk #78 “Sorry,you got thru the door but you’re not staying in”

I’ve “gotten thru the door” plenty of times and left when “I” decided to.If I could get responses by being 100% honest instead of “fudging” on things that are irrelevant and not physical,like,income,education,saying I’m “divorced” even though I’ve never been married…yadda yadda,yadda.After 13 yrs,I’ve learned the hard way.Some responses/dates are better than none.Just remember even if you don’t lie,you’re competing with AND emailng to people that are. You can’t change human nature.Fight fire with fire.

The internet has changed the dating/relationship landscape so drastically to the point where everyone has pointed out above,people(women) check off “little boxes” and when Mr.Model/Masters Degree/100K doesn’t show up they say “I tried the internet,there’s no good men on there”. Oh well…..
Denise 81

Being authentic, if a person can’t be authentic, then what’s the point? That’s either on line or in person. I am completely honest in my profile, about everything. It doesn’t feel right not to be completely honest, I am who I am and the man that wants me, wants me for exactly who I am.

What I have found with on line dating and this approach, if I think about it, is I weed out people who don’t have the integrity and values that I appreciate. I may not get as many interactions, but the ones I do get are of high quality. I also never have to worry about remembering what I said on line, and I can focus on the person I am with, getting to know them, instead of being in my head, being someone I’m not. (Most of the on line profiles I read of men, and I’ve read a lot!, comment that they just want the woman to be herself, to be authentic
Denise 82

“Just remember even if you don’t lie,you’re competing with AND emailng to people that are. You can’t change human nature.Fight fire with fire.”

Two wrongs don’t make it right.

One attracts those of similar maturity and character.
JB 83

11/25/10

@Kaitlyn 79

You are right in the “real world” people don’t ask SOME of those questions directly but as a man in the “real world” women would and still do “qualify” me by using conversation type qualifying questions like “where did you go to school?” ie: are you educated with a degree and if so where from? Or the famous one we men always get asked in social situations “what do you do?” ie: How much money do you make?Do you have a good job title? Can you afford me?

Of course we ask women “if they’re single” we want to gage their answer for interest.I also ask how many kids/ages in conversation so I know what I’m dealing with.

So yes in the real world upon meeting each other men and woman go about getting info and qualifying each other in different ways for different reasons but the internet has turned the “qualifying” process on it’s head.

It’s real easy for most of the women on this blog to say “just be 100% honest and let the cards fall where they may” that’s because you guys have never been a MAN online to see what goes on from our perspective.