How Much Time You Should Give a Guy to Commit Before You Quit
Pages: 1 2
I received this email the other day from a woman who read Why He Disappeared.
I found it frustrating – but really, I was feeling frustration on HER behalf. This woman is tearing her hair out because she doesn’t know how to apply my advice. And her frustration is what spurred me to write today’s post.
I think your advice is contradictory. You imply that you should get rid of the guys that don’t call regularly and make it obvious that they want to date and pursue a relationship and yet in the book you mention that you didn’t take your wife on a proper date for the first 4 weeks and how great she was that when you did call she was nice and said yes to whatever you proposed doing…and you ended up married….which is why women put up with flaky guys and “bad behavior”, holding out hope that it will change and turn into something serious. Like your relationship.
So which is it? Are you always nice when they call and say “yes” to the date? Or do you move on to the next guy because this one isn’t making much of an effort? For some people the 4 weeks turns into 4 months without them noticing and by then they’re in that pattern…and the behavior becomes acceptable yet unfulfilling and it’s too late to change it because you’ve been the “nice”, undemanding girl the whole time.
Tanya
My first inclination was to defend myself.
After all, I understand what I’m talking about!
But if Tanya is finding this grey area to be a bit too grey, then I have to acknowledge that perhaps I can do a better job of explaining it.
So let’s take a real-life example, shall we?
You don’t win this war by waiting him out and hoping he falls for you after four months or six months or one year of casual sex.
Janie is a private client who signed up for my 8-week Passion Course.
I like Janie a lot. She’s the type of client I’d be friends with in real life. Positive attitude. Good sense of humor. Understands men and lets them be themselves.
Which is why I wasn’t at all surprised when she met a man only two weeks into our coaching sessions.
What DID surprise me is that, after the initial chemistry rush, Janie settled into a low-intensity pseudo-relationship that didn’t leave her at all satisfied.
Like Tanya – and my wife – she was trying to be the cool girl, but she took it too far.
She needed me to set her straight and show her what her guy was actually thinking.
So why does a man only call or text you once a week to make plans?
Why is a man perfectly content only seeing you once every two weeks?
Why is a man not clamoring to reserve his weekends for you, or take you on a short vacation, or meet your friends and family?
The answer is simple:
He doesn’t want to!
If a man texts you once a week…
If he doesn’t make time to see you regularly…
If he expresses no interest in escalating the intensity of the relationship…
That’s EXACTLY the relationship that HE wants!
Low-intensity. Low-pressure. Low commitment. Low drama.
He wins. You lose.
He’s content. You’re not.
You don’t win this war by waiting him out and hoping he falls for you after four months or six months or one year of casual sex.
 |
Why He Disappeared is the smart, strong, successful woman's guide to understanding men. If you want to learn how men think, and rediscover how to have meaningful relationships - all from a man's point of view - click here to learn Why He Disappeared. |
Do You Want to Attract the Partner of Your Dreams?
If so, sign up for my free dating and relationship newsletter and receive my free eBook, The 5 Massive Mistakes You're Making In Your Love Life - And How to Turn Them Around Instantly. Simple and effective advice to jumpstart your love life.
56 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Kathleen 1
Simple, concise and impactful article!!!! Love the advice to mirror!!
Spiral 2
My personal take on wasting time: I was in a relationship with a guy for 14 years and he never proposed. I kept waiting and hoping and being understanding until one bright day I woke up! I realized we both needed someone different but neither of us had the courage to act on it.
After we broke up, he moved in with a new girl six months later, and proposed to her after 18 months. She was the right girl for him at the right time and he knew it. He locked her in.
Ellen 3
Evan has nailed it again! So true and how I operate now.
I will say, though, that my last “steady”, and I use that term loosely, played hard to get emotionally, but I went by his actions which were wanting to see me nearly every weekend- for 7 months.
He would occasionally mutter needing being free, “dating casually” and just based on that alone I should have walked (about month three or four). But I mistakenly went by his actions, not words.
His actions were encouraging (wanting to see me weekly pretty much), continuing to woo me by movies/dinner out, etc., his words were alluring (promising business trips primarily or us travelling together eventually), but in the end he kept me at arm’s length emotionally. Was really rather good at it and I think had done it a lot in the 5 years he had been divorced.
The end came when, despite his promising actions and words, he came back from Hong Kong and posted new pics of himself on okcupid. Ouch. Goodbye time finally for me.
The kicker was I never expected commitment given our age difference and his preference for casual dating. I was just soooo tired from online dating I decided to take a break with him. Our chemistry was fantastic, I’ve been married twice before, so it just felt right.
But the problem is I gave half my heart to him over the 7 months despite trying to hold back as much as possible. Women just bond quicker.
Still, I’ve decided I want to be taken seriously, respected and no matter what I secretly hope for in a relationship I want the guy to WANT to be my boyfriend. We’ll sort thru the details later. It’s just more complicated when you’re in your fifties, have been married before and already have children. BTDT.
Kudos to you Evan for spreading the word on how to respond to men. Women have been doormats, too accommodating for too long. The paradigm is changing folks!!! About TIME. Just in time for our granddaughters. lol
Lara 4
Very sweet!
EA 5
You can wait as long as you want, it doesn’t matter. If the answer is going to be that he realizes his good luck has ended and he lets you fly free, it will be that answer in 6 weeks or 16 years – as it has been with me. Go with your gut and do it sooner than later.
EA 6
@Spiral – what happened to you used to be my biggest fear. How are you faring?
I’m hoping the relationship between us has run its course and I won’t be bothered by the eventuality of him proposing to someone else.
Henriette 7
I love posts like this, Evan: the more specific the information, the better!
One danger I often encounter with the online dating is how easy it is to slip into the daily email, but only seeing each other in person once in a while. I don’t want to be some guy’s penpal! But it can be difficult to go from establishing that original connection over the computer – often with a guy who feels more comfortable behind a laptop screen than face to face with a woman – and then have it transition to seeing each other frequently. But your same good advice applies to this situation, too… if he can’t/ doesn’t want to step it up (from daily emails to frequent in-person interaction), it’s time to give him The Talk and cut him loose.
Dawn 8
I keep telling myself that the “right” guy isn’t coming into the picture because I’m not ready for him yet. However, when I meet a guy that makes me feel good…I expect more. When I don’t get it I whine. LOL…I know this about myself, so I laugh at myself.
It is about their effort…if they aren’t putting in, then why are you hanging on? Why not cast yourself out again and see what you get…I think most of us women make things to easy for guys…and cry and whine to our friends that he’s not giving us enough, and yet we settle for that “once a week”.
Be honest. With yourself…and with him. You have nothing to lose, and everything in the end to gain.
Lemon Zest 9
“When you start dating, Don’t Do Anything. He calls, he texts, he emails – you just “mirror” his efforts and give him enthusiasm and warmth every time.”
First let me say that I do like Evan’s “mirroring” strategy, it’s empowering and simple, and I do plan to continue with it. However, I would like to know at what point the woman is supposed to stop mirroring and initiate contact. I think mirroring may have backfired for me in my last “almost” relationship. I dated this guy for only about a month, and he was doing most of the calling and texting and I consistently responded warmly and positively. After 4 weeks of daily calls and texts and seeing him 2 or 3 times a week and every weekend, and basically acting like a potential boyfriend, he suddenly “disappeared.” Everything had been going very well, so I was stunned to receive a break-up e-mail, where he identified this “red flag” that made him decide he didn’t want to continue:
“It seems that you feel everything needs to come from me. I made the comment a week or so ago that I had not heard from you… Going all the way back to high school, I have never been in a relationship where I was essentially the sole originator of all communications.”
When he says he “had not heard” from me, I’m presuming he meant that I didn’t initiate a call to him. We had just exchanged texts the day before, so I was confused when he made that comment, since it didn’t even occur to me that he was expecting me to call him.
I was under the impression that the mirroring continues until you know the guy is your boyfriend. I was expecting that to happen but instead he decided to bail on me, because I wasn’t calling him and asking him out. What kind of man would leave a woman because she gives him space to figure out what he wants. It is disturbing that a man would use that as a reason to break up.
nathan 10
I don’t believe in this one way effort thing. Yes, ever the contrarian I guess. In my experience, it has always been the case that the dating situations that turned into relationships involved both sides doing some initiating, putting in some effort, taking the risk of rejection. In other words, we took turns mirroring to demonstrate our interest.
When I have done all, or most of the work in the beginning, it’s always led nowhere. Some of you might chalk that up to just meeting women who weren’t interested, and I would agree – they weren’t interested, or only mildly interested. However, it’s also the case that plenty of daters out there these days will happily go along for the ride for awhile for some casual fun. And yet if you are a man – or woman – who is always putting in the effort, it’s easy enough to be fooled by someone who says they want a relationship, but really doesn’t. Because they never have to step up and show that they are interested. Mirroring can be a sign of interest, but these days, it’s also a commonplace mask casual folks employ to keep things going longer.
Joe 11
I’m wondering, how do you rationalize the disconnect between not taking your wife on a proper date for 4 weeks, with the advice you’re giving Tanya?
justme 12
I don’t think there is a disconnect at all. For 4 weeks they were probably talking and getting to know each other better. She was probably talking and going out on dates as well during that time. It’s not like that they met, said “Let’s be exclusive” and THEN didn’t go on a date for 4 weeks. They met, spent a little time getting to know each other better and during that time, they decided they thought enough of the other to go on a date~sorta how getting to know someone/dating is supposed to work.
helene 13
The thing I can never figure out with the “once a week dates” (no I don’t mean booty calls) guys, or the “frequent e-mails but hardly ever want to meet up ” guys is why they bother at all?? If I was so uninterested in someone that I only wanted to see them once a week or send e-mails, it would signify that I wans’t interested in them AT ALL – so I wouldn’t even bother with them to that extent!
I HATE the once- a- week- date guys – you let it go the first couple of weeks to be accommodating and resist the urge to “tell them what to do” then it horribly morphs into “its always been like this why are you getting so upset about it?”
I was introduced to a guy about 3 weeks ago by a mutual friend who set us up on a blind date (which went well) - but it literally took him A WEEK to even text me after the date! (By which point I’d spent 2 days ”waiting by the phone”, 2 days feeling rubbish about myself because he hadn’t called, and the rest of the week convincing myself of all the reasons why I didn’t like him) When he DID get in touch I agreed to see him again (our mutual friend convinced me he was actually keen but a bit clueless, having been married for 20 years and his wife died 4 years ago). Second date also went well, and I did get a brief text on my way home saying “Nice goodnight kiss!”…. then nothing. Another week has gone by. I’ve decided if he does get in touch then I’m not going to see him again anyway – I can’t live like this. Valentines day all alone, not so much as a text, let alone a card, or flowers or a date.
Evan, your wife may have stuck this out for 4 weeks but I have to say I don’t think that’s recommendable – she was the “exception and not the rule” as they say in the film…. most of us who meet these once a week guys are doomed, they DON’T step it up all of a sudden.
Nicole 14
@Joe, re-read the post. That isn’t what he said at all. He said that he saw her “casually” for the first 4 weeks. That is not the same as saying he saw her one time in 4 weeks. He’s just saying he didn’t proclaim his undying love and say that they were exclusive and all of that stuff.
So no contradiction at all. He’s saying that you can’t take it easy for someone who hasn’t taken any steps to move forward with you after you wait patiently for a reasonable amount of time.
So he would not condone someone just dropping in on you casually for months and months. I think that point is that you can’t pressure someone to decide in a week but a man who decides that he wants to be with you won’t take a year to figure that out. That’s kind of why a guy who bounces or doesn’t commit to one woman will commit to another. Okay guy with the wrong lady isn’t going to go anywhere.
Karen 15
OMIGOD I LOVE THIS! I just HAD the 6-8 week talk TODAY, am JUST NOW reading this, AND THE GUY’S NAME IS ADAM TOO!!!! WOW! Timely and a half! I wasn’t completely emotionless about it, but I was clear and brief. AND I feel EXTREMELY good about it. And you know, Adam IS a great guy, but just not for me. I’ve been reading this blog for a few months now. Excellent work Evan! Thanks!
Sherel 16
I saw my SO on average once on weekends for the first 2-3 months. It was fine with me. We did take 2 great trips together during that time and talked daily . I think it depends on the couple. We are older, been married and are single parents and live abot 25 miles apart. Seeing someone initially so frequently is more than I want. I think relationships start off backwards. As you get to know and care for a person you want to spend more time IMO
JB 17
@Lemon Zest, I keep track of how often a woman initiates contact with me in every dating scenario I’m in just to kind of judge interest level. Just like how long it takes someone to return a call, email, text etc…. I can just kind of get a “feel” as guy how much a woman may or may not be into me. I can’t say I’ve ever really held it against her unless she blatantly always returns a call the next day or I ALWAYS get voicemail.
I can’t say that if a woman never initiates contact and everything else is going perfect that I’d be happy but there’s a lot variables in most situations. At mine and Ellen’s age (50 and up) we have to be a little more flexible because of our options being somewhat limited than say a 32 yr.old….LOL
Barnett 18
Maybe the only reason why the guy keeps the relationship at low density, for he just like being ‘friends with benefits‘ but its never really good to try to maintain a relationship like this. Someone’s bond to get hurt!
LOVE is like fire, so it is wise not to play around with it. Maybe to avoid low density relationships as such, it would be wise to wait sex out until marriage that is if your relationship is that serious.
Kym 19
Just before Thanksgiving of 2010, I went out with a guy that I met on Match. He was great looking, the same age as me (49), smart, funny, generous, adult, fit, healthy, playful, emotionally available, nice, sexy and fun to be with. His divorce was a little fresh (about a year) and his kids a little young (6 &10, and mine are adults), but I thought it was worth exploring. We went out only about once every couple of weeks for about four months. He didn’t call for days after our dates, and although we always had a really great time together, seemed pretty clear to me that things weren’t going any where. (Thanks to Evan for helping me to see that.)
I continued going out on Match dates, continued going out on my own, kept busy, and didn’t invest much emotion in the relationship. Still, I wasn’t quite ready to write him off all together, and continued to see him occasionally. In March, I took myself on an incredible two-week vacation to Costa Rica and was only able to email him once or twice. When my return flight landed at 1:00 am, he sent me a text telling me that he was picking me up- and he did. We started going out several times a week, he called me nearly every day, and soon I realized that he thought he was my boyfriend. THEN I took down my Match profile and stopped dating other guys.
Its nearly a year later, and this is the happiest, healthiest and easiest relationship either of us have every had. I feel deeply loved, honored and respected. This guy was definitely worth waiting for, but there is no way that I would kept seeing him much longer if things hadn’t changed. I think he realized that and stepped up.
Oh, and why did he take so long to make me his girlfriend? According to him, when we met, he had recently broken up with someone he dated for six months, he was trying to keep his business afloat by himself, he was living with a terrible roommate and needed to move, cared for his children every weekend and was generally overwhelmed. He did eventually make room for me in his life – it took a bit more than 6 weeks, but it wasn’t 6 months, either.
SnowdropExplodes 20
@ Lemon Zest:
It may sound odd, but (some) guys like to feel wanted too. If we always initiate, it can feel as though a woman is just being polite, but isn’t really that interested (I see Nathan @ #10 made a similar point). For that sort of man (and yes, I fall into that category) there is no encouragement like the occasional unprompted email, text or phone call. If you just mirror, then it doesn’t matter how warm or positive it is, it’s not encouraging because it had to be prompted (much like how, if you ask a partner “do you love me?” then even though they say “yes” enthusiastically, it doesn’t mean very much, and certainly not as much as if they say they love you without being asked).
Now, I like to get frequent contact with someone I am dating or hoping to date soon, so I often initiate anyway, but if it happens all the time then however interested I was to start with, it starts to dissipate.
I think the 6-8 week guideline is pretty good, I know it tends to take me that long to feel someone out and get my head around how I feel about her. But a part of what I’m feeling out is how much she invests in the potential relationship, including whether she’s interested in me enough to want to say stuff to me of her own accord.
Saint Stephen 21
I agree with Nathan and SnowdropExplodes
I don’t think that the mirroring concept means that you should absolutely do nothing but means that you should let the guy do more of the chasing and initiating.
Whenever I’ve been the only one calling, texting and emailing for a period of three to four weeks, I mostly lost interest for further communication because in the the few times i tried in the past – I ended up with a woman who didn’t know how to reject me – or men – because they didn’t want to hurt my feelings, or the woman who had someone she was interested in but just wants to string you along till anytime the other dude shows proper interest for a serious relationship. And finally, you have the other woman who just wants to use you in learning how to date – those are the three different categories of women who don’t do anything in the early phase of a relationship. How about when i call you five times, you call me once or twice in reciprocation? By that way you’d still be applying the mirroring concept and at the same time showing the guy that you are interested in him as much as he’s into you and he wouldn’t be doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship.
Katarina Phang 22
Women can show interest in so many different ways without initiating. I am very touchy-feely and expressive with my feelings. If I like a man a lot, I will generously say so or show him PDA. That can feel a bit too much for a guy if I also initiate the callings, texting etc…unless he specifically says he wants me to.
If he’s been actively initiating and then he goes silent, I don’t mind sending a text just to touch base. Not too much though. Guys always love moderation when it comes to women initiating/pursuing.
helene 23
Guys, I think we’re discussing rather different scenarios here…. if you ARE attentive, calling, e-mailing, taking her out, then the issue kinda doesn’t arise… women will just naturally start initiating some of the contact because its so obvious you’re interested and prepared to take on the male role that they don’t have to consciously hold back and things will just evolve in a normal way. Where women are encouraged to just mirror is with guys who are NOT initiating much contact – there, the natural tendancy would be to step into the breach which is exactly the WRONG thing to do with a guy who isn’t making much effort. In no time you’ve either emasculated him or just ruined the relationship dynamics….
I do think, though, that this is an area where men don’t know themselves very well – they THINK they’d love it if a woman initiated the contacts….untill it actually happens to them ! In no time they feel overwhelmed and smothered and they run for the hills! Same with women initiating sex…. sounds great till she starts stripping in the middle of the final round of the US Masters.
AS 24
Great advice as usual
I’m jumping on the bandwagon here and saying really liked your tip on mirroring and the added advice of the other readers, about also giving a little back outside of this to show your level of interest, otherwise the guy is not getting any signals back.
Gem 25
I’m a huge fan of mirroring! In my experience, when a man is interested in a woman, he goes after her. He pursues and doesn’t much keep score between how many times he’s initiated compared to her–so long as he’s getting glaring green lights when he does call and sees her.
Especially in the very beginning (first few weeks), I think a woman should let the man pursue and do very little by way of pursual, meaning trying to set up the next date. The exception, for me, has been an occasional unsolicited text saying something cute, sassy, funny–nothing boring like “just wanted to say hi.”
This is only in the beginning while his pursuit is more casual and we’re getting to know each other. Once he steps it up with communication and increasing dates–like a momentum is happening, I’ll call occasionally too but I still tend to let them ask to see me.
I’m engaged now to a hunter who made his interest very obvious. He said that my lack of pursual (because most women he dated DID pursue) made him think I was dating others and figuring out my feelings for him. He stepped up his game because he wanted to win me. He asked for exclusivity after 3 weeks. It’s been 5 months now and we just got engaged.
I let him lead, gave him major green lights. I was dating others very casually but I wanted my fiance’. I showed my interest without chasing. It’s a fine line that everyone needs to be comfortable with. My fiance’ is a traditional man, a hunter. The kind I like and he liked the fact that he pursued and won me!
Ellen 26
Before mirroring became the norm (at least on this site- it needs to go viral imo), women went slow, feigned disinterest (I have on occasion) ’cause men have SUCH a rep as commitment phobes that really you guys have us near paralyzed.
The coolest thing I read here was Evan’s remark that men are sexual and emotional hypocrites. In my dating, and admittedly I haven’t dated enough emotionally available guys, I have always, always gotten burned if I led with my heart, if I made my feelings known AT ALL. Guys love to spew the worst, the most outrageous compliments, insincere emotional crap to get you in bed, but God help you if you are yourself and do likewise.
So we shut up. It’s up to you to decide if it’s disinterest, the above or something else. We learned long ago to keep our mouths shut until we heard “I love you” or something damned close.
Luckily, lately, I’m with a great, sexy guy who encourages me to open up, to get affectionate. He is gunning to be my boyfriend and it feels marvelous. Only took three years folks! He came along only two months after I broke up with what turned out to be the biggest (secret) player on the planet. I feel vindicated and very lucky finally.
Joe 27
I think there’s a bit of a paradox. Most people don’t want to date someone who doesn’t have much going on in their life, right? You don’t want someone who just sits home every night watching TV. However, those are the people whose schedules are flexible enough to date you multiple times a week, right off the bat–if that’s what you think makes a person a worthy BF/GF. Everyone else will have to make space in their schedule in order to do that, and you won’t know whether or not a person is worth rescheduling your life until you’ve been out with them a handful of times. So I don’t really see it as a problem dating someone once a week on weekends for a month or two.
BC 28
I’m in agreement with Helene @13. I have never been in a relationship that started through online dating sites, or depended on texting to sustain it so I’m sure that skews my views a good bit. But, like Helene says, if someone only wants to send me a text once a week, and lets tons of time pass bewteen dates, then it would be very discourageing and disappointing to me to be waiting around hoping and wondering if the guy liked me enough to some time soon step it up! I am also lucky in that (so far!) I’ve always been involved with guys who pursued me in a sufficiently eager manner (lol!) that I didn’t have the worry of these thoughts running through my mind. I give out positive, reciprocal interest signals for sure if I’m interested in a man, but other than that, I let him chase me (not really, chase, but you know what I mean) and I’ve had some fantastic relationships throughout my life. The one I’m in now may be the end of the road for me, but I’ve never and will never wait weeks to hear from a man on a regular basis. There needs to be that surge of interest from both of you initially to get things going, at least that’s my opinion.
There have been a couple of posts on here that prove there are exceptions, but you’d need to be able to properly read between the lines, as in the case of Kym @19. She waited a bit longer for her now committed boyfriend to get more serious because she was able to cut through and understand some of the very valid reasons for his lack of availability at that stage in his life, and he was worth the wait it seems. But its never worth your sanity to spend ages and ages trying to guage someone’s interest in you. Mutual interest and somewhat regular contact is critical within the first few months for me. Who wants to feel like they are never thought about or missed? I don’t need or want constant contact, but someone calling me only once every two weeks would not fall into the potential *boyfriend* category.
Lemon Zest 29
SnowdropExplodes @ 20 – To tell you the truth, I did more than strictly mirroring. I recall initiating several calls and texts, and I even asked this guy on 2 dates during that month. At one point I even came right out and told him that I wanted to be his girlfriend. I don’t know how he could have doubted my interest in him. I was actually worried that I was initiating too much. This man is a paradox.
nathan 30
I have to agree with Joe’s point about timelines here as well. There is a difference between someone who keeps everything at a distance for weeks on end, like the guy Tanya was seeing, and someone who works to fit dates into their schedule as they can. You can go out once a week or so for the first month, two months, but have plenty of other contact in between. Evan’s point about escalating the relationship is probably more important to consider. You can go on a lot of dates with a player who, in the short term, is getting his fix, but still be left high and dry. At the same time, you can go on fewer dates with someone who is genuinely interested, but has a full schedule and is slowly opening it up to spend more time with you.
Katarina Phang 31
Lemon, he’s perhaps an anxious (read “Attached“). Sounds like he’s clingy like a woman.
It’s also perhaps just an excuse. Most guys I know don’t care much about clingy women/initiators.
BC 32
nathan @30, excellent points…I agree entirely with your thinking here. There is absolutely a common sense element to the timelines we impose on relationships and their progression. For the first few weeks of dating someone who we are really developing an interest in, it would be quite acceptable to go out perhaps once a week, with a few phone calls or something in between dates. Knowing that you are at least on someone’s mind as things are moving pleasantly along is great.
But as for waiting two weeks between any form of contact after a date, as I had mentioned, well, that is just too slow for there to be any real connection forming, IMO. Unless the man/woman in question is on a business trip or has some realistic enough scheduling issues to deem the huge gap in communication unavoidable, then it just doesn’t come off as a good potential match if there is that little desire to get together a bit more often.
Ruby 33
I also agree with helene in #23. I think that the scenario that Kym (#19) describes in not the norm, although I’m glad it worked out for her. If a man is into you, he assumes that other men are as well. He will try harder to beat out the competition. If you are just okay for now, he simply won’t be as concerned about losing you, and won’t work so hard to keep you. I’m also suspicious of men who rely too much on email/texts for contact, rather than phone. If a man is really into you, he wants to hear your voice, and spend time talking to you.
One of the downsides of online dating is that it has created a lot of lazy, even disinterested, daters.
nathan 34
Ruby, I think treating dating as competition is actually part of the problem. It drives people to rush timelines, ignore or miss red flags, and make declarations of love and commitment before they are really ready to. It makes more sense for men to simply ramp up their effort and displays of interest because they want to show a woman they are into her. At the same time, I stand behind my comments that simply mirroring doesn’t fly – at least for me – and often leaves men in a position of having to guess at a woman’s level of interest.
Also, about the phone. A lot of guys aren’t “that great” on the phone, and prefer in person conversations. Obviously, sometimes that isn’t possible, but I think that lack of phone use needs to be placed within the whole context of the dating situation. If a guy only texts/e-mails and rarely sees you, then something is probably off. And if in general, the communication is only happening once a week or less, something is also off. However, a lack of phoning doesn’t always mean anything. And it’s definitely the case that phones are less relied upon in general these days, regardless of the situation.
Cindy 35
This article is great!!! I just broke up with my bf because he wasn’t making much effort and things just seemed like it was a casual relationship and not progressing after 3months, when I wanted something more. Firsty he only made plans with me once a week and if either
Of us were busy that day I wouldn’t see him until the next week, (pathetic) lol. He also only ever txted me and never called, he went to nightclubs to his mates bdays and never once invited me. I only met his friends once…and finally he spoke to me badly on valentines day coz we didnt agree on something small and he went off me….that’s when u ended it. Has anyone met a guy like this? Ditch him!!!!!
helene 36
Nathan – why would you have to “guess” at a woman’s level of interest if she is mirroring what you do??! She is displaying the same level of interest that you are – (and may feel more besides, but can’t express it becuase you aren’t!) We have to go at YOUR pace. Mirroring demonstrates AT LEAST the same level of interest that the man is revealing. And if you think not initiating and simply mirroring is easy, and therfore effortless and implies nothing, you’d be way wrong. It takes a lot of restraint, thought and skill to mirror effectively – and hence, implies a lot of effort and interest.
I go to tango classes, and there, the man leads every single move – the woman literally doesn’t take a step unless the man directs her to. Does that mean tango is “easy” for women? You bet it doesn’t. You have to tune in to your partner (all men dance a little differently) you have to be ready to move – or stay still and silent – at a moment’s notice, without ever knowing what’s going to happen next, where he may lead you. You have to feel what it is he wants you to do, keep your balance(in high heels) whilst not being able to see where you are going as you
are generally walking blindly backwards, you have to place your trust in him that he has the situation under control and knows what he’s doing, and all the time pull all this off with poise, elegance, sensuality and – if the situation demands it – passion. If any of you guys have any ideas that mirroring is the easy option, I suggest you put on high heels and a skirt and take a tango class – as a woman!
Ruby 37
Nathan #34
Sure, it makes sense for a man to ramp up his efforts to show a woman he likes her. But I think when you like someone a lot, you assume that other people like that person a lot too, and that is one component that drives you to want to “lock” them in, as EMK put it. Of course, that doesn’t mean you’d want to be exclusive with anyone without assessing potential red flags first.
As far as talking on the phone, that may be a generational difference, up to a point. I’m sure younger people are more used to texting. A man who texts a lot may not a be showing signs of disinterest, if he also makes a concerted effort to spend time with someone. But in my experience, men who prefer emails and texts to phone calls have not been that into me.
Sherel 38
I agree with Joe, Nathan and BC. Having arbitrary times for contact are not good in the begininng. Have a life ladies!! Too many of us are sitting around waiting for some guy to call or text. If he doesn’t do so every day or every other day at the onset we assume the worse. I believe that as you get to know someone and your interest increases so will consistent contact. How many women have been played by some guy that called or texted daily and wanted to see them frequently early on get dropped like a hot potato at 6 weeks!
Hope 39
The OP mentions something about letting time slip away while being the “nice, undemanding girl” for a guy who isn’t making much effort.
If a guy isn’t making much effort, there’s no reason you can’t be dating other people (or at least looking), in between his infrequent calls. Then you won’t be letting 4 months go by.
I remember some good advice (I think it was from this very blog) that if your predominant feeling about a new relationship is “confusion,” things probably aren’t going to work out. If a good man wants you to be his girlfriend, he’s going to make sure you aren’t confused about his intentions.
“Mirroring” is one of the concepts I’ve benefited from most, since discovering EMK. I still can’t believe how well it works.
Susan61 40
@Ellen #26. Excellent post. I forgot about this rule when I met someone 4 years ago (yes, it’s been that long) and was just exiting a 4.5 year relationship. I hadn’t really dated in 6 years when I met this man and since he was so seemingly into me and we had (what seemed to me) rather electric chemistry and a lot in common, I just assumed he was sincere and I fell for him. Since I had “forgotten” how to date, I opened up about my feelings and BAM, that was the death knell. I still have to see him through shared professional interests we both have that I was not willing to give up because of him. It’s not easy but I deal.
Now I know when I meet a man I am “into” I have to be: passive, friendly but feign disinterest, not pursue AT ALL, flirt but retreat, and above all, keep my mouth shut. Oh yeah, and if you become unavailable every now and then like Kym when she went off on a two week vacation WITHOUT him, that helps. It is such a game but one that must be played. All the men I have no interest in, who I do NOT date incidentally but just know through my work and avocations, pursue me continually because I am friendly and fun when I am around them, but unavailable and not interested in dating them. All men want what they can’t have (and many women too).
Susan61 41
^^^Sorry, I did not mean to say ALL men, I meant to say MANY men.
JB 42
You guys all make great points but in the world of online dating of course I know that if I like a woman so do 500 other guys. I know the barrage she’s getting on a daily if not hourly basis. It’s nearly impossible to “lock someone in” after 3 dates who has so many choices unless I’m fricken Superman.
Even when the miracle happens I make it to a first or second “proper date” I always assume she’s dating at least 1 or 2 other guys that are in various timelines of their progression as well as fielding her daily barrage of “new guys” etc…. so this is when I really count on the woman to give me signals.
The last woman I went out with for a few months didn’t take her profile down but also wasn’t logging into Match everyday. She initiated emails occasionally at least and we had a kind of unspoken understanding that at least for the time being we were going to concentrate on getting to know each other. I told her truthfully “I don’t date more than one woman at a time” but that doesn’t mean she can’t. I’m a very busy man I don’t have the time nor the money to juggle women but a woman can schedule 5 “meet & greets” in a week and it won’t cost her a cent.
In the online world if someone isn’t making a consistent effort to see you and they’re on Match everyday. There’s your answer. For people that meet offline in real life it’s as simple as actions speak louder than words, emails, texts, and yes…..even phone calls.
Still-Looking 43
JB@42 – well said.
Viktoriya 44
Some women prefer this kind of relationship, they may be too busy with career and have a man for cocktails. Others want marriage and kids. Nobody should put up with something that doesnt work for them.
Joe 45
@ helene #36:
I don’t know how long you’ve been taking tango, but the lady isn’t entirely in the control of the man. For one, some ladies are a bit headstrong (most men do not care for this). Then there are certain actions that are the lady’s option (e.g. adornos) during periods where the man isn’t actively leading. And finally, if the lady does something the man didn’t intend–no matter whose fault–the man has to cover for the error…so the man has to be able to “follow” what the woman does too.
Alex 46
Oh gosh, it’s been a really interesting read, mine is a very busy divorced man with a daughter which he sees most weekends. I’ve been doing the “mirroring” and trying to keep myself busy. One thing is I’m confused is that he was so keen at the beginning, then doesn’t suggest dates as he has flaked out three times due to work and last minute arrangement to care for his daughter. I’m deaf, and can’t use the phone (makes it a little more difficult for me to know what he’s feeling) and he mainly initiate texting whenever he gets the chance then I respond exactly what you have mentioned. Sometimes I initiate but not very often. I sometimes speak to him via Skype but not very often.
Sometimes I ask him some personal things so I wanted to get to know him but hes not really revealing anything to me. Right now it feels like I’m dancing the tango, and I’ve sent him an email several times to ask him clear that he’s interested, and in the last one I told him that it was obvious we weren’t on the same page etc and wished him luck, but if it’s not what he wanted, say so. He is still texting me but not in an affectionate way (again texts can be impersonal). I’ve totally backed off and doing my own things and looking on dating sites to keep my options open.
Unfortunately I live with my mother, and she says he is treating me appalling and unfair, and she thinks he’s a bit of player…. I’ve stopped wearing my heart on my sleeve, having learnt my lesson from my 1st relationship. I’m being realistic to the fact he’s a father and of course his daughter comes first and he works all hours.
It is the first time I have had a bloke who’s a bit enigmatic unlike the
previous ones who have been very clear about what they wanted.
I’m keeping an open mind but find it difficult to think especially when others are saying negative things.
Kirt 47
I think that women often are so passive that the man can’t determine how much a woman likes him. Women really do need to learn how to give a man encouragement. Men will give up on certain women if they think that the women aren’t putting forth enough effort.
Karmic Equation 48
@Lemon Zest 9
— After which “Last night was awesome. U r spoiling me” texts keeps the romance, compliments, and “potential” on the right track.
Did you ever text or email him a “Thank you. Had a great time last night”? after going out after he initiated? I’m assuming you didn’t?
That might really have been the crux…not only was he doing all the initiating, there was no acknowledgment of his efforts or compliments afterwards.
Guys love compliments and acknowledgment of their efforts, whether it’s their choice of restaurant, wine, meal, or if they were particularly awesome in bed
The “no initiating contact” communications are actually very easy to avoid. You know how sometimes you are JUST DYING to hear from him? And you really really want to text him “Hi. What’s shaking?” — That’s when you DON’T DO IT. That’s when you are initiating contact in a needy way. When you are saying thank you (just once, btw, not multiple times for one effort) — you are just being polite and acknowledging his efforts, which doesn’t constitute initiating. But if you keep thanking him over and over because he hasn’t replied (at all) — THEN you are initiating contact, because you want to hear from him.
IMHO, another way to think about initiating contact is that you ARE NOT initiating contact if the communication is ONE-WAY without requiring a response (like “Thanx for spoiling me”) then you are ok to send the text. But if you send something like “Thanx for spoiling me last nite. Can’t wait to do it again.” Then THAT IS initiating contact. See the difference?
Karmic Equation 49
@Lemon Zest 29 — oops didn’t read far enough.
Telling a guy you want to be his girlfriend is a big no-no. That’s not mirroring that’s chasing, and often, an unrecoverable mistake. Sorry to say. The guy has to ask you to be his GF. You cannot offer or ask. They hear N-E-E-D-Y and can’t run away fast, especially if their head/heart is nowhere near that level of commitment.
Ellen 50
JB, I don’t know where you live, but in SC, even with the “Yankees” I dated, if they even picked up the merest molecule of scent I might be dating others, they weren’t interested and took umbrage.
Personally, I was raised to date sequentially though was tempted about twice to juggle, but only twice. I was a nervous wreck the entire time- just felt false.
Once you kiss someone or start saying words of endearment, sorry, but to continue to date others is just rude, unfair, and false. Not good values imo.
David T 51
@Karmic
They hear N-E-E-D-Y and can’t run away fast, especially if their head/heart is nowhere near that level of commitment.
Yeah? And what happens when the man asks this when her head/heart is nowhere near that level of commitment? Same thing. Someone has to be first and whoever is first takes that risk.
Fact is, there are no hard and fast rules that work every time. All Evan offers (mirroring, for instance) is what is most likely to work with most men. Use your head. Know the other person, and behave accordingly.
If people would talk about what is on their mind about a new (or already existing) relationship and also listen to the other person without judging or freaking out, knowing that what they are hearing is the other person’s ‘stuff’ and nothing they are responsible for, there would be a lot less guessing. This means having the ‘relationship talk’ whenever you are uncertain. “Hey, I am really into you and hope we get serious” “Well, I like you, but am not sure yet.” Done. Let it go. Now lets have a fun date. No posing. Wouldn’t that be nice and relaxing?
People wouldn’t ‘disappear’ because you would KNOW when and why they decided it was not going to work, etc. Probably there would be a lot less angst and wasted time. Well, maybe I can move to a planet where people actually communicate someday.
Meanwhile, if I ever want to date seriously again I guess I will just have to play the little game of reading between the lines. thhpppbbbt. :-p
Ben 52
it is more of the women that can’t commit to us men anymore, especially if he really loves her. women are the ones that are very picky today, and yet they will go with the loser men anyway. women are certainly not like the women that we had years ago, when they much more better educated. more and more women are playing games, and many of them are so very nasty to talk too. now with many of the women that think they are all that, they are are certainly not.
Jennbot 53
@Ben #52
Oh my goodness…I was happily reading the blog posts and happily willing to remain silent until I got to the very last precious post by you. Ben, you sound like you’ve been hurt lately, possibly repeatedly and I think you need some down time to lick your wounds and possibly consider turning up your filter because your bad attitude is coming off of you in waves! It isn’t attractive and will do nothing to help you find a partner. I also find your statement that, ‘women are certainly not like the women that we had years ago, when they much more better educated.’ extremely offensive and hypocritical, please go educate yourself before you deign to criticise women.
Kari 54
Hi Evan,
Thanks so much for this! I noticed some of these signs in the guy I was dating. So, I had a conversation with him about it and, sure enough, we were on totally different pages about the relationship. Now I can move on and find the one who’s right for me! This is great news because I was driving myself nuts trying to figure out what he and I were doing! Thanks again!
Jacqueline 55
I love this article! This is pretty much how I nabbed my LT boyfriend after a string of BIG TIME LOSERS. Guys who didn’t want commitment or guys who were cheap and wanted a sleepover buddy.
I didn’t date in HS and dating in college was daunting. Luckily two years into college I met a great guy.
I think the one-way thing (mirroring) technique works initially, but after about a few weeks of constant contact I think it’s okay for the woman to initiate contact. Probably something non-committal? Like a joke or a funny picture.
Ben 56
to Jennbot #52, sorry for my comment. but i have been hurt very much by women, and it has nothing to do with me. if i try to start a conversation with a woman that i would like to meet, and why would they curse at me for that? i am certainly not making this up, and i know other men that had this happen to them too. maybe so many men mistreated them very badly at one time, but why take it out on us innocent men that are very seriously looking to find love?