How to Find The Man Of Your Dreams in One Easy Step
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I have a lot of conversations with women who inquire about which coaching option is the right fit.
Before anyone invests a lot of money in herself, it’s important that we get on the same page. In that half-hour, I can tell if she’s coach-able and serious, and she can tell if she’s going to respond to my no-nonsense approach to understanding men.
Every once in awhile, our free consultations will take a turn to the unexpected, and I get confronted with a question that I’ve never heard before.
In this instance, a successful, inquisitive, 40-something woman said that she’d read about all of my success stories – and even read my quote about the “crossroads”.
What she wanted to know was this:
“Among your success stories, Evan, what percentage of women changed who they were, and what percentage of women changed their choice of men?”
Out of everyone I’ve ever coached – and we’re talking over 1000 women since 2004 – I don’t recall a single instance where the woman fundamentally changed herself to find love.
I took a second to contemplate before replying.
I racked my brain, then laughed out loud at my own unexpected answer.
Out of everyone I’ve ever coached – and we’re talking over 1000 women since 2004 – I don’t recall a single instance where the woman fundamentally changed herself to find love. If she was driven, she remained driven. If she was opinionated, she remained opinionated. If she was busy, she remained busy.
In the hundreds of success stories that I’ve had, every single one started with my client doing two things:
1) Making a greater effort to find love
2) Opening up to, and falling for, a different type of man
That was a fascinating revelation to me and it should be to you, as well.
But what if I told you that I was drawn towards cocaine and prostitutes? (Yes, I am secretly Charlie Sheen.)
Seriously – what if I said that those 2 things produced the greatest highs in my life and I didn’t want to give them up?
You’d probably tell me that while you wish me well, it’s hard to create a stable relationship if I’m snorting blow off a 20-year-old in a Vegas hotel room. It may be fun, but hookers and coke are probably not building blocks for a peaceful life.
Hate to say it but: the men you’re most attracted to are your hookers and coke. And the only way to find a relationship that sticks is to quit them cold turkey.
This does NOT mean giving up on attraction, intelligence, looks or money!
All traits are on a sliding scale from 1-10; it’s not simply an either/or. Unless you make it that way. Consider this email I got from my former client last week:
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40 Comments »Filed Under Chemistry
Andrew 1
Evan’s challenge is to diplomatically and gently educate women away from the pervasive “never settle” attitude that is the current social expectation. That attitude goes hand-in-hand with the “I deserve” princess mentality. Clearly, Evan is successfully educating his clients away from these relationship-killing attitudes.
Compounding the problem is the focus and demand for “chemistry” when a woman meets a man. Let’s be honest here, “chemistry” is a polite code word for “I wanna jump his bones right here and right now”. It’s a woman taking orders from her vagina. The male equivalent is “he only thinks with his penis”. Sexual attraction is great. It’s not enough, however, on which to hang a committed healthy relationship.
However, your initial story of the woman who falls for a guy right away, only to be treated like an option on the back burner is ALL too familiar to me. This must be a very common scenario among your woman clients, since you describe it perfectly. Some guy who doesn’t call, prefers to text, sees you once in a while when it’s convenient for him, who at the same time is very intoxicating to be around, handsome, interesting, smart, funny, successful. The same guy who also drives us crazy with his murky intentions and inconsistent behavior. But is the alternative to this settling for some poor guy who doesn’t do much for me?
This quote describes the dilemma quite well. The type of man to whom this woman is attracted to sexually is also the guy to whom many women are attracted sexually. He has options and he is quite willing to exercise them. That’s manifested with his murky intentions, his incommunicado, his relationship inconsistencies. He gets away with this because so many women allow it. Why do they allow it? They are thinking with their vaginas.
This very attractive fellow isn’t going to give up his soft harem any time soon unless the woman is 110% perfect for him. A vanishingly few women will fit into the glass slipper that he’s carrying around while he is happily bed hopping and breaking hearts. This is the unfortunate reality of Dating 2.0. While women are the gatekeepers to sexuality, men are the gatekeepers to commitment. Not only do women need to broaden their outlook towards men, they also have to bring something to the dating and relationship table that men want.
Spiral 2
Lani, thank you for expressing some of the frustrations I have felt as well. You aren’t in alone in feeling that there are only attractive jerks and unattractive nice guys out there.
But I firmly believe in Evan’s wisdom. Life is not black & white. I don’t need a 10 on instant attraction if the guy is a 7 or more on kindness, attentiveness, care, trust, and respect.
Keep persevering!
Mia 3
I have experienced frustrations similar to Lani and don’t clearly understand Evan’s answer. 100 percent of the varied group of men I’ve liked in my five and a half years in the post college realm have not wanted an exclusive relationship with me. The few men that wanted one with me were significantly and inappropriately older- no thanks! I usually date men who are less attractive than me – but the guy should be at least a 5/6- don’t expect chemistry ASAP, and even though I went to an ivy league usually date men from state schools and even a few blue collar types. I do not make any of the commonly discussed dating mistaKes. I dont have a single type — I have probably 10!
In the month since my last devastating dating disappointment, I went on 3 match dates, one blind date, hung out with two male acquaintances who seem to have a crush but will not make a move – nor do I want them to – hung out with a third guy friend with whom there is sexual tension but no compatibility, lined up a date with a friends friend who lives in a city I’ll be traveling to next month, saw 3 old flings during a trip back to my old city, flirted with at least 4 men I met at bars …
I have never been a more social or actively dating person than in the 1 1/2 years since I beganfollowing Evan’s advice to be proactive,but no luck at all! Is it something subconscious? Bad luck? Is the 28-34 dating demographic that rough?
The fact is, some of us are NOT meeting any men in that middle ground who like us.
Evan Marc Katz 4
Received this email just last night. This is what I’m talking about.
Hi Evan.
This is so hard to write. But I need to. No actually, I have to.
You see, I’ve met someone else. And I really like him. He’s a spectacular, amazing, wonderful man. And things are going really great!
So Evan, although it’s been fun, we’re gonna need to part ways. No one likes it when things have to end. But sometimes it’s for the best.
OK, in all seriousness, I need to extend you a big ‘ol THANKS! Truth is, I have met someone. About 8 months ago. Interestingly enough, when we first met on Match.com, I was still repeating patterns of dating “Mr. Emotionally Unavailable,” you know, the guy who never really wants a relationship but still wants all the benefits of one. I played along for quick some time because like most women in that situation, I always thought he’d change his mind.
Ha, if I knew then what I know now.
I’ve been a subscriber of your newsletters for a couple of years. So when you started FOCUS Coaching last year, of course I signed up. And the dating rehab ensued! It was about this time I met my now awesome and wonderful boyfriend.
Unlike my other ‘relationships,’ things progressed slowly. I was a little uncertain at first because this was a whole new ballgame for me. Dating a nice guy who means what he says, says what he means and ALWAYS backed it all up with action, was foreign territory for me. Plus, I wasn’t feeling that spark I was certain had to be there upon first meeting. Sure there was attraction, but on a scale of 1 to 10, it was hovering around a 5. So I wasn’t quite sure this was going to work out. I stuck with it though because I kept thinking about what you said in regards to REALLY paying attention to a man’s behavior — “he makes an effort to always see you, treats you well and w/respect, makes you a priority in his life, etc. and continues to do so CONSISTENTLY, well then guess what, you’ve got a man who wants a relationship with you.” I mean isn’t this what I’ve always wanted?
OF COURSE IT IS!!!
Breaking patterns is hard. And I recognize that change is by choice. I consciously made a choice to break my unhealthy dating patterns. And with your guidance, I am now in a healthy relationship with a wonderful, magnificent, generous, compassionate, beautiful, NICE man who is the love of my life and truly my best friend. We are currently discussing a serious future together and I couldn’t be happier.
Ah, so THIS is what a healthy and committed relationship feels like.
I still need to break up with you though. With that said, please cancel my FOCUS Coaching membership. Don’t take this the wrong way, but this is the happiest parting I’ve ever had with someone. Tee hee.
Thanks for everything Evan.
Warm regards,
Kim
K 5
@Spiral and Lani. I’m definitely in your world. Since I started reading Evan’s advice (about a year and half now) I have found most men to be the “2 choices” described by Lani. I either have a huge crush right away and then I’m disappointed. Or I go out with them and don’t feel a thing. Before Evan’s advice I stuck around a lot longer for the former and cut loose the latter after date 1. Now I quickly move on from the guys that don’t treat me right (getting better at it). The so-so guys I give about 3-4 dates. With them I always end up dreading the kiss or the hand holding and then know its not going to work. After first reading Evan’s advice I started to really question a lot of my preferences. I started the year off dating any height (as long as taller than which is easy), loosened all sorts of age and education requirements. I just ended up going out with more guys I wasn’t into. Now I’m taking it into moderation. I like to think and I’m really hoping that the type that is for me in between the “2 choices” is just rare. Most people are going to be chemistry with nothing more or zero chemistry. That maybe the mid range guy who I feel some spark with but who is a nice at the right time is limited. So I keep at it.
@Mia I have a read a lot of your posts and often feel the same way. I’m way more picky than you are (I still get lots of dates so I haven’t relaxed it to much.) I don’t know what I’d say if a 100% of guys I dated didn’t want a relationship. I can’t figure that out. For me I’d say at most about a 1/3 of my dates I’d like to see again. About 1/3 we mutually don’t want to see each other. And maybe about a 1/3 I’d hope to hear but I don’t. I’m 34 and in similiar “exotic” category as you.
Rachael 6
I don’t understand (AT ALL) the need for instant chemistry. For me chemistry comes with love. To me attraction doesn’t equal chemistry either.
Attraction is one thing, but it doesn’t even hold a candle to how I feel when I habe chemistry with someone. The kind that makes you feel like electricity is crackling and crawling all over your skin. Your heart skips a couple beats before it goes off the charts and sends your head into a dizzying spin. Breathing becomes damn near unneccesary because you swear you could live forever inside the euphoria. Sometimes I snap crackle and pop just laying my head on his chest. Time can stand still if I look in his eyes, or breathe him in. A simple kiss on the neck could send me right through the roof and into oblivion. If we have sex during a time like that, watch out! And I know when he feels it too when I get a simple breathless “wow.”.
I have never, and will never feel that with someone I don’t love. I can’t even imagine that and the notion is almost rediculous to me. To feel that way without loving a person. For me chemistry doesn’t just happen when I meet someone. It grows stronger, entwines, and meshes with my love for that person. I was simply attracted to my bf when we met. I wanted to jump him frequently. But chemistry? No. Not without love. But maybe my notion of chemistry is just too powerful to stand on it’s own without the support structure of love…
Then again maybe far too many people miss out on this or never find it because they mistakenly believe you need it to love someone and not the other way around…Food for thought.
Laya 7
Spiral, Lani and K (wow the list of women who feel the same way keeps growing!) I have felt the same way as you most of my dating life. I dated men with whom I had great chemistry but were not good in one aspect or another and men with whom I had zero chemistry. The men I had zero chemistry I too would dread the kiss or anything physical. I dated a lot. 95% of the time the men I would go on dates asked me out again. As Evan stated there is a middle ground…and I finally found him at age 41. He is the best boyfriend I have ever had. He is fantastic. I can’t gush enough about him. Now here is the kicker…it took me 20+ years of dating to finally find him. Mia hang in there!! There were times when I told myself I may have to accept that I will be single for the rest of my life. But I never stopped dating because as the saying goes, “you got to be in it to win it”.
While I was never blinded by passion with him, he is really the best person for me. We are currently looking to rent out and sell our current homes and looking for a new one to buy together. Happiness is a quiet feeling not one of passion.
K 8
Thanks for sharing that Laya. I have had several girlfriends tell me the same thing, they found their “right” person in their late 30s. Btw I’m not even looking for the type of chemistry (initially) that Rachael is talking about. That kind of chemistry happens when I’m in love as well. Attraction, the kind that you like when they put their hand on the small of your back (or at least don’t mind) is what I’m talking about. I’m glad you found a good middle ground. I’m hopeful most days.
Julia 9
I’ve learned, from a recent break-up, that even the less attractive nice-guy can keep you on the back burner. It’s likely not another woman but it could be a child, or work, or family responsibilities. I guess I’ve learned that if he’s not available right away, he’s never going to be available and he knows it.
Shelly 10
I have been single for 10 years after a bad divorce. He cheated with someone much younger, so my self esteem & trust issues were huge. I started dating seriously about 3 years ago, and have dated many, many men I met on the net. Most of the ones I met were only interested in casual fun, and I just thought that was what all men were like in my age bracket (I just turned 50).
I then found Evan, and the light went on. I started making better choices, asking the “right” questions to weed out the jerks, and opening myself up to a wider criteria.
Well, I have finally met “HIM”…..the one that makes my toes curl, the one that I think about constantly, the one that contacts me when he says he will, the one who opens doors for me, pulls chairs out for me, and pays for everything (I tried to pay once, and he got very offended).
BUT……..there is always a but……he lives 1000 kms from me. He is a 4 hour drive from the airport, then a one hour plane trip from me, and he does it without complaint. We are meeting again next Friday, I am flying down to his closest airport, so he “only” has the 4 hours drive.
So, I have found the one for me, but it is long distance. He is applying for jobs close to me, says he wants to make a life with me, and I trust & belive him.
The moral of my story, dont discount anything, if it is meant to be it will be, and it can take years, and kissing of a lot of toads, but once you find the “right one” or you, you will look back & realise it was all worth the wait.
Jane 11
i have to sympathize with Lani here. I too have always aimed for the reasonably attractive men (not the uber-handsome) who have a job, but aren’t billionaires, and who seem kind and sincere. And believe me, I’ve been rejected by plenty of them.
Also, I have educated myself by reading this blog, as well as the advice of Johathan Aslay, Rachel Greenwald, Carol Allen, Michael Fiore, Bob Gant, etc. You name it, I’ve read it, and have taken all this advice to heart and tried to apply it in my life. And yet, in the 4 years since my divorce, only one man has ever asked me out on a 2nd date, and he disappeared after 4 dates. You can’t get a boyfriend if you can’t get a 2nd date. It’s incredibly frustrating. The biggest challenge, one even greater than a 2nd date, is to keep a positive outlook which I manage to do but on some days it’s tough. When you’re saying goodnight after a nice evening, and the guy says “I’ll call you” and you know he’s lying through his teeth, it can be tough. I even saw a funny video on Youtube about guy-speak where they admit that “I’ll call you” translates to “You will never hear from me again” Ha! And a note to Andrew (comment #1), any reasonable woman understands that “not settling” simply means to not enter into a relationship in which you are treated poorly and are disrespected. We know it doesn’t mean hold out for the millionaire movie star. “I deserve” means to have a strong sense of self-worth and know you can have a relationship with a decent guy, and the over-used ‘chemistry” (which by the way, is the #1 reason guys tell me they don’t want to go out again, so that goes both ways) is not neccesarily the heart-pounding intense attraction but can just be an all around great feeling about meeting someone new. Women get criticized for these things but I think it’s unfair and usually goes both ways.
daisy 12
Love your description of chemistry Rachael! Spot on in my book.
susan 13
really great and sane responses from so many women. I too take as much advice to heart as I can, and appreciate not only the ”experts” opinions but also those of people in the threads. I know the things I’m a sucker for, I know my deal-breakers (only a couple but they are there), and I have dated all ages, stages and heights:).
I find the ”huge effort to start with” incredibly frustrating. The man who literally promises the world and all that’s in it and then disappears or loses interest after one or two dates. but as a general rule most of the men i have met have put me squarely in the friend catergory very on – and until very recently i have happily accepted that, reasoning a friend was never a bad thing.
The thing that drives me NUTS though is that no matter how easy going, charming, fun et al I am, most don’t even ask me out! A good male friend said I give off a ”friend” vibe not a sexy vibe. Maybe my tops are not low enough:)
Alex 14
I know that it’s frustrating and seems like there are only these two extremes of men but of course it feels like that because it is rare to find someone suitable to be your life partner. Why shouldn’t it be?? So you dated several, or even dozens of “nice” guys you didn’t have chemistry with…so keep going. Part of the reason a fantastic relationship is so special is because that mutual deep love and attraction between two people is rare and takes some searching. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.
Andrew 15
…any reasonable woman understands that “not settling” simply means to not enter into a relationship in which you are treated poorly and are disrespected. We know it doesn’t mean hold out for the millionaire movie star. “I deserve” means to have a strong sense of self-worth and know you can have a relationship with a decent guy, and the over-used ‘chemistry” (which by the way, is the #1 reason guys tell me they don’t want to go out again, so that goes both ways) is not necessarily the heart-pounding intense attraction but can just be an all around great feeling about meeting someone new. Women get criticized for these things but I think it’s unfair and usually goes both ways.
If there were a lot of reasonable women out there, Evan wouldn’t be in business.
It’s amazing how many women enter relationships where they are treated poorly and disrespected.
“Deserve” is the worst word in our vocabulary. No one “deserves” anything. A strong sense of self-worth is too often used as a rationalization to have unrealistic expectations.
Of course women are criticized for these things. They are thinking with their lady-parts and are also under the influence of emotional pornography. Evan is deprogramming, that’s his job.
Heather 16
Lani and Mia, I’ve been there too. I wondered if there were just the good-looking guys that I would gush over, who would disappear after 2 weeks, despite all the talk about relationships, or the guys that while nice, didn’t do anything for me and I’d dread the thought of another date with them. Dating is very, very tough. I’ve been divorced for a bit over 5 years, separated from the ex for over 6, and it was very, very tough to even get to maybe date 2-3, let alone the talk about being boyfriend/girlfriend. I read a lot of advice from several people, talked to friends, but yet still…..crickets. I got plenty of attention, but it would just fizzle.
My current guy is not someone I normally would date; his looks are really not “my type” but he is attractive in his own way, and kind, and loving, and supportive, which I’ve longed for, for years.
I told my best friend, who is a gay man, that I was ready to give up dating, and get a dog and grow old with him, that I was done with dating. And not long after I said that and was just about to hit “delete” on my online profiles, that my guy showed up.
Will we end up together forever? Time will tell. Seven months does not a lifetime companionship make, and after my horrible marriage and divorce, I am MUCH more cautious, watchful, and mindful of my own needs, wants, and boundaries. Being with him has helped me examine myself some more about what I truly want from this, and it’s been a good thing.
Hang in there, you’re doing the right thing!
Dee 17
One special benefit to dating someone who doesn’t instantly inspire rabid attraction is that you get to make a rational decision rather than a crazy one. When you’re instantly floored by a man, you don’t think; you’re running on crazy dreams, probably wild sex and all the insanity (that’s what psychologists now call it) that is infatuation.l
When you don’t have instant attraction, you can ask, “Am I being treated well?” “Do we have similar values?” “Do I enjoy this person’s company?” These are the qualities that will satisfy in the long run.
But hey, some people are so addicted to pain and drama that running from one failed relationship to another is somehow fun, exciting and interesting to them. I say, Whatever. Just stop the whining!
Ellen 18
I feel really sorry for some of the posters. Even though the last three years dating online has been pretty horrible for me (with a happy ending finally met my (real) boyfriend in January!!!), at least I’ve been seriously in love several times, with two of those unions lasting 9 and 25 years, respectively.
And I didn’t have to wait two decades or forego children like so many seem to do nowadays.
All I can say is, yes, I feel Evan’s advice works but it all takes time and being brutally honest with yourself- about a lot of things. The biggest problem with middle-aged dating is everyone, men and women, are rather jaded and even cynical. Sometimes, though, the best favor you can do yourself is to figure out exactly what you want. Many middle-aged men really don’t seem to know what they want or are in denial about their attractiveness and appropriate age group.
Men my age apparently HAVENT read that if you’re actively sexually without commitment long enough (about three years) you have a 50% chance of contracting an std. They haven’t read the online dating stats that show that 20 and 30-something women ARENT interested in them. They haven’t seen the irony that they are passing up women in their age group out of spite or stupidity (“I deserve a young thang!”) or in some strange perversion of logic that these women will be just like their exes. Pathetic. I am of the belief these men should be forced to read David Wong’s article on cracked.com – http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html?wa_user1=5&wa_user2=Sex&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=companion
So if you are looking for commitment (but maybe not marriage) it’s best to be really upfront with your suitors and weed them out FAST. The problem is we all enter this forum naive as hell not realizing a lot of men (and some women) will go to great lengths to disguise what players they are in order to get what they want, whatever it is (expensive meals for some women, financial security, sex).
Now, in my experience it can take upwards of three years to find out if someone is trustworthy, at least in a work setting, so finding the man who is truly available emotionally, or who wants what you want, AND who you find attractive, is like finding a needle in a haystack.
My current bf, btw, I didn’t find physically attractive right away- took me three dates. Then I realized what a silver fox he was once I got past the rugged, sun-damaged sun. Else, he’s a hunk. 58 with a 40 year old body and shoulders and arms to die for. Flat abs even! But for some reason I was hung up on the skin part. lol
But I digress.
In my twenties I dated the sexy, slick cerebral types (just like Evan) ’cause that felt right to me, was what turned me on. In the last three years I have dated very few cerebral men, or even well-educated men, but I find that like money (which I have covered) I no longer need these things. What I do need (increasingly) is a big-hearted man, an aware man, a man who truly sees my worth and is going to be a friend, not PRETEND to be a friend.
In twenty years it’s my hope women will be much more proactive in showing bad men the door rather than passively wait for them to improve. I could go on and on, but I’ll spare ya’ll. Sorry for the length of this.
Ellen 19
PS
Like you Heather, I was about to give up, get a dog, had talked to one of my male friends about embracing celibacy finally, etc. when my guy showed up!
Kate 20
My boyfriend of 4 months just broke up with me because he said he was not in love and felt he should be after this amount of time. We had a fantastic relationship and we both talked about the fact that we were looking for the one. Laughs, fun, kindness, support and great sexual chemistry, however, he said he felt the “honeymoon phase” ended to quickly. It lasted longer with his other relationships and he was in love almost right away. Obviously none of these worked out. I wish more guys understood that the honeymoon phase is infatuatution and not real and lasting love as Evan stated in his blog.
Heather 21
Ellen,
I’ve gotta agree with you. That was my big beef with dating. I tried dating older men because I thought well, maybe they’re less likely to play the tired frat-boy role, and might be more mature. And that usually blew up in my face because many middle-aged men I met were very controlling, insecure, and just plain old MEAN. No wonder why they were single, I should have figured that one out, hello! But then the guys closer to my age that I met, were the ones who would talk about how they wanted a relationship, and then two weeks later……crickets, and leave me feeling hurt that they couldn’t just be man enough to let me know that they just weren’t interested. I just couldn’t figure it out. I’d read all these advice blogs (Paige Parker, EMK, even Rori Raye although she had me scratching my head alot), read books, talked to friends, and it just seemed like my efforts were for nada. I was starting to get downright cynical at times.
My current guy and I clicked right away, even though I wasn’t too sure about the physical attraction and whatnot, but I figured well, he’s kind, he’s very funny, and so understanding and supportive. I still tread very cautiously, but he’s a very good man. In the past I might have said nah, he’s not making me weak in the knees, but now I know better. The ones who do that to me, were the ones who treated me the worst.
Ellen 22
Heather- lol….I got a certain amount of flack for dating much younger when I was heavily online dating, but just like you I found too many men my age to be exactly as you describe- controlling, insecure (some passed on me because they felt out of my league- told me so), cynical, players (sometimes even THEY didn’t realize they were players. Some men can’t admit it- ruins their perception of themselves or something), TIRED (couldn’t keep up with me), etc.
Younger men were more upfront about what they were looking for, their attraction to me. Wore their hearts on their sleeves just a little bit more ’cause they hadn’t been hurt as much I guess. Don’t know. Nothing except a two-year FWB really lasted though ’cause of their immaturity. In the end their immaturity torpedoed things.
My current bf is my age and it’s NICE not having to worry about the age difference anymore, not hide the wrinkly skin on my knees. lol
JM 23
I have learned the hard way that jumping into a relationship because of “chemistry” or infatuation is a really bad idea. I wasted a lot of years going for butterflies in my belly intead of trust, respect, and mature love. So, now I’m single at the age of 37, and have been for over a year. I am having the most difficult time dating! Granted, I haven’t really been doing it for long because I jumped back into the dating pool then realized I wasn’t ready before jumping back in a few months ago . . . albeit very slowly.
I’m looking for the right things, going for men I would not have normally gone for, forcing myself to make the first (online) move and working hard to be witty and flirty, and making time to date in order to find real love. Yet, I can’t get further than a first date. I’ve gone out with men who are short, men who are a little chunky, men who don’t have great jobs, men who have kids (I’m child-free by choice), men who aren’t the best looking, etc. I wouldn’t go out with a guy who was below a five and I think I’m in the seven range.
The only men who are nice to me and interested are really overweight (40+ lbs), a lot older than I am (in their 50s), or foreigners (could be spam, even). There are a few who I would classify as ones or twos not necessarily based on their looks, but on their lifestyles and personalities.
It’s easy for me to find a non-committed (sexual) relationship and ironically with those men I have great relationships. Open, honest, fun, respectful, etc. Of course, I don’t know how things go as soon as they are in relationship territory. As we talk about relationship stuff, they are the ones looking for chemistry, instant connect, butterflies, etc. and they do find it, then we don’t talk for a few months and as soon as they realize those women are not relationship material, who do they call to cry to? Me.
I’m not perfect. I could lose some weight (maybe 20 lbs) even though I run half-marathons and am very active. I’m a strong, independent woman, so maybe that’s an issue. I’ve tried to be more feminine and have even made a great effort to “dumb myself down” during first dates (which did not work). However, I am a good catch. I’m young for my age, attractive, really pretty average-sized, funny, no kids, good job, own place, drive a car, no issues, etc. But I guess that’s just not good enough anymore.
Mia 24
These comments about middle aged guys crack me up! For all my dating woes with men under 35, as a 20something I always felt like getting a good looking, interesting, successful man either married or single in his late 30s and into the mid 40s was like shooting fish in a barrel. These men think I’m gorgeous, vibrant, mature, and an amazing catch. I feel that if I was interested I could run out tomorrow and snag a hot older CEO. But it feels like cheating. It’s not practical for marriage. i still wouldn’t feel guilty about taking one off the market, either, since must women in this blog 10, 20, and 30 yrs older – and with more baggage- are having an easier time dating than me. But it’s tempting to go where you’re wanted!
priya 25
I had same belief like these other women that its either bad boy with intense attraction or plain boring nice guy and i perfectly understand their dilemma.It took 4 years to find out something in between nice guy with backbone.Moral of a story is it isnt easy.
Daphne 26
What if you only feel chemistry with men of a particular racial type ? Should I date other men, who express interest in me ? Should I try to get over it ?
runnergirl 27
Hi Evan and all,
First, let me say thank you to you and all who post comments. This article and the comments are just what I needed to hear today. I’m commenting for the first time, kind of. I posted a snarky comment more than a year ago before I was ready/able to listen. I spent the last year and change on men-o-pause, healing and addressing my unavailability issues, establishing boundaries, and my core values with the help of the amazing Natalie Lue on Baggage Reclaim. I’ve read your blog on and off but wasn’t ready to get back into dating until recently. I was inspired by your article “Are You Afraid of Falling in Love” and the comments and felt ready so I signed up on Plenty of Fish. It’s been wonderful and not so wonderful. I sure wish you had more gentlemen clients! I’m making a conscious effort to avoid “my type”. The first two guys spent a majority of the evening talking about their crazy ex’es and one spent the rest of the evening texting on his cell. Flush. The third guy suggested a second date at his house and got pissed off when I explained that I wasn’t comfortable going to his house for a second date. Oh well. The fourth spent a little less time telling me about his divorce but I dunno. He still seemed bitter, not over the ex, and still fighting about money. The fifth called me at the crack of dawn yesterday but hasn’t called today regarding plans for drinks early this evening. Early evening is here and no call. I can see how easy it is to give up, chemistry or no chemistry. Thank you, I am making a greater effort to find love and I am open to opening up to a different type of man. My type hasn’t worked for me in the past and I’m not going to meet anyone on my couch! I’ve got two more dates set up this week. This post and the comments came at a good time.
PS. In the bubble above my head, I was thinking these guys need a dating coach. I would have referred them to you but I couldn’t get a word in edgewise.
Paragon 28
@ Ellen
“Men my age apparently HAVENT read that if you’re actively sexually without commitment long enough (about three years) you have a 50% chance of contracting an std.”
Possibly because they are distracted, in laboring to make this a relevant concern(ie. they are not as sexually active as you suppose).
”They haven’t read the online dating stats that show that 20 and 30-something women ARENT interested in them.”
They are playing long odds – just like the women who come on this blog expecting instant chemistry *and* long-term commitment in the same sentence(after *decades* of failing to achieve this goal in the past – which observes that some lessons are best learned sooner than later).
”They haven’t seen the irony that they are passing up women in their age group out of spite or stupidity (“I deserve a young thang!”) or in some strange perversion of logic that these women will be just like their exes. Pathetic.”
Or perhaps they were late bloomers, who find little in common with single mothers, or women who are emotionally damaged from years of abusive partners, and repeated rounds of pump-and-dumps.
Just a thought.
Two of Us Dating Service 29
I love this! My mom’s friends all told her she was settling when she married my dad, but he treated her like gold and they loved each other so much until death do them part. I have girlfriends who search internet dating sites for doctors and lawyers, and other girlfriends who seek out the Brat Pitts in the bars, that also have 4 girlfriends at a time. I can’t say I’ve never done the same, but my perspective has definitely changed! Thanks!
runnergirl 30
JM, I’m with totally with you on jumping into a what seems like a relationship based on what seems like chemistry. I’m a lot older, 53, and I’ve been there done that and been married a few times. Those butterflies eventually stop fluttering and if that’s all there is, well, then there’s nothing. I have very recently re-entered the dating pool (only a few weeks) and have encountered precisely what you describe. Even though I’m new on this site and on the dating scene, I don’t think Evan is suggesting that anyone should “dumb themselves down” or twist themselves into a pretzel to please a man. I’m an attorney and a professor which I state on my profile because I that’s what I do. I can’t hide it. It’s going to come out. I’m also short (5’2″) cos I am. Those things can’t change. Guys have responded that I’m too beautiful and smart to be online. Some guys smacked me for being smart and attractive, as though I shouldn’t be? Some guys have been nice but nutty in person. This week I started making the first online move rather than simply responding. Be you. You have a ton going for you. Just be you. At 37, you are not any where near the last chance saloon. I finally figured out how to set my settings to screen out the 20-30 somethings. Here’s my favorite response: ”DAM FN HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT”. From a 55 year-old.
Paragon 31
I understand those women who observe a binary dichotomy between prospects as either *hot* or *not*, attesting to women whose thresholds for sexual attraction are so insensitive to their (long-term mating)market equivalents, that they are left to playing prohibitively long odds(with no realistic chance of winning).
What fascinates me, is the rational disconnect where these women are somehow detached from any reasonable awareness of what this predicts for their outcomes, given that this population of women cannot logically pair off with the smaller population of ‘choice’ males required to satisfy their ‘chemistry’ threshold – a justified assumption when we consider that a deficit of physical ’chemistry’ is(admittedly) the primary culling determinant of their interactions with sexually interested males, where the men who fail to meet this threshold vastly outnumber those who do(again, by their own admission).
Like I said before, such women are not adapted to long-term relationships, which for many women always has, and always *will* entail trading off physical chemistry, for relationship stability.
This is a concession that many women will have to make *if* they want to be in a stable, long-term relationship.
On the other hand, the concession males make are in terms of a singular/exclusive investment in a particular female who represents an optimization of choice-sets.
So, while the tall, atheletic hunk may sleep with the short chubby single mother, he is not likely to remain exclusive with her if he has better options(which he will).
Women are, by nature, inclined to reject more men than not – they are, in effect, the culling mechanism of sexual selection, whereby selection can operate opportunistically by culling frequencies every generation.
Good luck to Evan on trying to reform obstinate tendencies with an evolutionary basis - it is a good fight to wage, in this case, I think.
Zaq 32
If I see another inappropriate use of the word “appropriate” by a bitter female I am going to scream !
Show me anywhere on this enormous internet thingy where you find men asking how they can meet up with “appropriate” women.
Why on earth would men want “attractive women”, when they can have an “appropriate” one instead ?
Whoever invented the word, must be the same woman who invented the term “arm candy”.
Just sayin
Also, for those who ONLY have fat and significantly older men chasing them – YOU ARE WHAT YOU ATTRACT.
To attract an attractive person you must BE attractive.
Yes women ARE the ones that get to choose their mate – but only from those that find them attractive.
Mia 33
Zaq, do you not think it’s justified for a woman to say that a man 20 years older than her (especially if she is under 30 and not yet at an older age herself where compromising on the partner’s age may make more sense) is not “appropriate”? Also, haven’t you heard of models who can’t find boyfriends, hot girls in NYC who can’t get relationships, etc? Meeting the man’s minimal threshold of attractiveness doesn’t guarantee his long term commitment, even if it’s an opening requirement. Among younger men (under 35), there is an epidemic of non-commitment fueled by the hookup culture and the belief that there are endless options that often has far less to do with the quality of the woman in front of them than their own personal timing of when they’re “ready” to commit.
Helen 34
Zaq, only two women in this thread mentioned “appropriate.” And there is nothing inherently wrong with men and women wanting different things in their partners. Isn’t that what Evan is always making clear to us?
I agree with you that “arm candy” is a silly term, but there’s certainly no proof that a woman invented it.
You wrote: “Also, for those who ONLY have fat and significantly older men chasing them – YOU ARE WHAT YOU ATTRACT.” Zaq, I’m afraid there’s a contradiction right there in your one sentence. A person is NOT what she attracts if it is a significantly older man – by definition, then, they are not the same age. I think what you meant is that you can only choose among those whom you attract.
Zaq 35
@Mia
What only 20 years ? I know teenagers interested in men in their 50s.
You are perfectly entitled to have personal preferences which limit your dating pool. You are, however, in no position to dictate to other adults what is or is not appropriate.
Without necessarily agreeing with your assessment, your main point would appear to be that younger men are unwilling to commit to a LTR.
By your own admission though, you accept that men will commit when they are ”ready”, and that this ultimately has little to do with the quality of the women.
It follows that there MUST be a large pool of men who are ready to commit RIGHT NOW. They are attracted to you now, and they are ready and willing.
I repeat my assertion. You only get to choose from those willing to date you. The ball is in your court. I suggest you look for attractive qualities in the ones that ARE available.
Zaq 36
@Helen
Artistic license !
You have to admit that older women are loathe to acknowledge that older men may just find younger women more attractive.
Trying to shame men by suggesting that it is a vain attempt to impress peers or recapture lost youth is laughable and completely misses the point.
Looking at a beautiful woman has the same effect on our brains as heroin.
It is completely natural and to be expected from any healthy male.
If you have read anything I have said on this blog, it will probably revolve around the transactional nature of dating, and the dating value we bring to the table.
I therefore stand by the “you are what you attract” statement – in value terms.
Therefore young healthy woman EQUALS older wealthy man
Ugly woman EQUALS poor man
Of course I am not suggesting it is just down to looks and money !
Karl R 37
appropriate:
1. suitable or fitting for a particular purpose, person, occasion, etc.
2. belonging to or peculiar to a person; proper
Mia asked: (#33)
“do you not think it’s justified for a woman to say that a man 20 years older than her (especially if she is under 30 and not yet at an older age herself where compromising on the partner’s age may make more sense) is not ‘appropriate’?”
Several years ago I met a man whose wife was 30 years younger than him (she was in her mid-20s when they started dating). Because of the age gap, she was able to pursue her career full-time, while he (as a retiree) was happy to stay home and raise his children.
This man was considered suitable by a particular person (his young wife), and he was considered suitable for a particular purpose (being a stay-at-home father). I don’t believe you’re in a position to judge whether this arrangement was proper.
When you say a 50 year old man is not appropriate for you, you are using the word correctly. When you state that it is not appropriate for man to date a woman 20 years younger in general, I have to agree with Zaq that you’re using the term improperly.
Mia 38
Guys, I meant such an older man is not appropriate for me, not for everyone. But you have given me a lot to think about. The truth is, I know I could have a bf tomorrow if I stopped holding out for a man about five years older or less. Men under 35 are aloof to me beyond physical interest, while men 10-20 years older think I’m a goddess and appreciate things in my personality that my peers do not. Last year, while getting rejected right and left by early 30 somethings, I rejected a guy 20 yrs older who was tall, cute, six figure earning, social and well liked, commit ment minded, wanted to see me all the time, and refused to let me pay for a thing, even when we went out for a 300 dinner at the best restaurant in town. I thought such an age gap works be impractical for marriage, but maybe I should accept that for whatever reason, my personality type is going to be the most appealing to older men and not turn down high status, great guys bc they werent born in the 80s.
Paragon 39
@ Mia
“Also, haven’t you heard of models who can’t find boyfriends, hot girls in NYC who can’t get relationships, etc?”
I recall you lamenting once, that, while you’d be content with a slightly cute, nerdy guy, you aren’t having much luck finding one.
And, for the sake of argument, I will assume that these models/hot girl’s you alluded to are having the same problem as you.
It occurs, that What you may be failing to consider is, even as modest as their requirements may seem – they are holding out for a scarce resource.
The problem is, that females really are only physically attracted to a very small margin of the male population.
How small is small?
Well, I think that a recent OK Cupid study lends support to the kind of dynamic that sexual evolution predicts – where some
80% of males were deemed *below* average in attractiveness(which I think can be reasonably assumed to exclude the ‘slightly cute’ demographic).
Now, how many of this 20% of sufficiently attractive males would you suppose are single and/or looking?
How many still, would you suppose are disposed to a LTR?
Are you beginning to see the nature of this problem?
“Men under 35 are aloof to me beyond physical interest, while men 10-20 years older think I’m a goddess and appreciate things in my personality that my peers do not.”
I think you mentioned that you were in your 20′s?
If so, then you are at the *peak* of your attractiveness – your sexual value is *likely* at it’s highest point.
It also sounds like you’ve found a niche segment of receptive, high value males.
Unfortunately, they appear to be outside your age preference.
But, it is also important to appreciate that your window of opportunity for the highest value males available to you will be starting to close from this point on – so you may want to exercise those options now, while you still have them.
Of course you can continue playing the long odds(which are likely to become longer, as your value decreases) – just be sure you understand the implications of such a choice.
But, as I’ve said before, some lessons are best learned *early* – use that to your advantage(or not).
Ellen 40
“Some guy who doesn’t call, prefers to text, sees you once in a while when it’s convenient for him, who at the same time is very intoxicating to be around, handsome, interesting, smart, funny, successful. The same guy who also drives us crazy with his murky intentions and inconsistent behavior. But is the alternative to this settling for some poor guy who doesn’t do much for me?”
Are you my twin? Coming out of an 11 year marriage to a man that was uninterested in sex I am very concerned with attraction and sexual chemistry with a promising next partner in life. I unfortunately have found this chemistry with emotionally unavailable men. And off course with each one of them…I believe I can “help” them want to become available to me. And in each instance I find myself wondering where I went wrong when I stop hearing from them.
The list that Evan gives is so obvious but he also hits the nail on the head as we all think we, our situations, our men are different. The advice he gives is only as helpful as the person reading it willingness to adopt and accept it.
I AM willing but I also think my situation is different
haaha ..baby steps are better than none at all