I Am Separated (And Soon To Be Divorced). How Can I Convince Women To Give Me a Chance?
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Evan,
I filed with the court a legal separation and divorce decree at the same time. My ex-wife and I were physically separated for almost 10 months, mentally separated longer than that. We went to counseling for many months prior to the separation and it didn’t work. I agreed to 3 years legal separation, so that she could get my health insurance, and then the divorce would be decreed.
I have gone through the process of grieving and loss and I am ready to move on. My counselor is even the one to want me to start getting involved in dating. My problem is that because I am only separated and not divorced I fall into that stigma by women that I am only on the rebound, and they are not willing to give me the chance to start any type of a relationship.
Am I doomed for the next 3 years? How do I convince them to just give me a try? And even if it didn’t work out permanently would that be so bad? I feel like I am between a rock and a hard place.
Pat
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Pat, for making a point that I’ve been trying to make for many years: you can’t truly “know” someone by a label.
You can’t truly “know” someone by a label.
Believe me, I can tell you innumerable stories of women who dated married, separated, and recently divorced men who were either legally or emotionally unavailable. And because of the dead-end of getting involved with such a man, these women issue the blanket decree: “I will NEVER date that kind of man again.” This is a classic example of how the stereotype may be perfectly valid, but you can’t judge EVERY single person by the stereotype.
Should separated men be considered high risk? Absolutely – especially if she just kicked you out of the house two weeks ago for cheating, you’re living on your friend’s couch, and you hope to reconcile. Hell, you’re even a risk if you’re just out of a divorce and want to “play the field”. And that’s the part, Pat, that I have to acknowledge on behalf of women. To answer your question directly: no, it would not be that bad if you dated a woman and it didn’t work out.
Contrary to what some might say, that’s called “dating”. There are no guarantees for either party. The issue is that most women don’t want to get emotionally involved with someone who could be considered high-risk. A man who is freshly out of a dead marriage may be highly tempted to sow his oats for a while, or, at the very least, not settle into domestic bliss so soon after his separation.
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58 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Isabelle Archer 1
Just be totally upfront about where you are emotionally, and let her decide. I’ve had terrible experiences dating a separated man who wasn’t ready to date — but it wasn’t his fault (entirely). I was the one who ignored all the obvious signs he wasn’t ready. Now when I date a divorced/separated guy, I listen carefully to find out where he is emotionally. I don’t even have to ask — it comes out naturally in conversation. If you really are as over your ex as you say, then the way you discuss her and your marriage will indicate that. No convincing necessary.
HRGoddess 2
I am dating a separated (going through a divorce) man and I have seen no indication that he is not ready to date or even commit for that matter. His marriage was for all intents and purposes "dead" for the last 6 years and like Pat, he also went through some extensive counseling with his soon to be ex-wife but it only served to prove what he already knew, that he was miserable and wanted out. On the flip side - before I met him, I dated someone who had been divorced for 5 years and was still a mess. I think it's best to take it on a case by case basis and not make blanket generalizations on soon to be divorced or separated men. My guy is absolutely wonderful and is ready for happiness.
Selena 3
I'm one of those who don't date married men regardless of how they describe their marriage. You're probably trying to be a nice guy by staying married so your wife stays on your insurance, but sorry, while nice for her, you've really tied your own hands. Legally married is not single. You may want to re-think that arrangement, especially if you find someone you could be serious about.
I think Evan's suggestion of dating women who are in similar circumstances to yours – recently separated, divorced, or keeping a marriage going for the convenience – is likely to be your best bet.
Selena 4
I'm also curious, why 3 years? What happens in 3 years that makes a difference in your wife getting her own insurance?
Single Mom Seeking 5
Add me to the list of women who've dated "separated" men — and learned some hard lessons. I appreciate what Evan says about being open-minded instead of judging by a label.
I do, however, agree with @Selena that being legally married — for health insurance or any other reason — means that this woman is still your "wife." So, yes, be honest about the fact that you're still married — and there's a big "pool" of recently separated women out there who are in the same boat!
Selena 6
Another suggestion: you could always get a divorce and pay the equivalent of her own insurance premiums in the form of spousal support. More expensive no doubt, but hey, if you want to be divorced…. She's going to have to pay for her own health care someday anyway.
andie 7
My first husband was separated when we met. Our relationship was the impetus he needed to make the divorce final. He signed the divorce papers three months after we met. We married 2 and 1/2 years later. Just goes to show that you never know. Stereotypes are helpful in sorting through lots of potential partners, but people are people and they all don't fit into typical behavior patterns.
Isabelle Archer 8
The three-years health insurance would give me pause, but the fact that they’ve already agreed that the divorce decree will go through at the end would mostly negate that. I do think it’s a good idea to completely cut financial and legal ties if you can, but that can be a completely separate issue from emotional ties. What WOULD worry me would be if he had some lasting sense of guilt or duty that wasn’t letting him really let go of the marriage, and was being expressed through the health insurance issue. That, you can only tell by spending time with someone, not by looking at the legal documents filed.
Christie Hartman 9
As the author of Dating the Divorced Man and an expert on dating after divorce, I do warn women about the risks of dating separated/divorcing men. There are a lot of issues beyond the separated label to consider. However, I agree with some of the other comments that you need to weigh each situation individually. Some separated guys having no business dating; others are ready to move on. I’ve seen these relationships turn ugly and I’ve seen them turn into happy marriages. If you like a separated guy, just go slowly and be on the lookout for red flags. The good news with this guy is he has filed papers and is moving forward with a divorce, even if it’s slow-going. And, he is in counseling – another good sign. When dating, he needs to be up front about his situation and not try and hide it or, worse, lie and say he’sdivorced. And, as Evan said, he should take his time and be cautious.
Selena 10
Re:#8
I also think it's the best idea to cut legal and financial ties. And frankly, staying married to someone to get, or provide them health insurance IS a big indicator to me, of some lasting sense of guilt or duty that wasn't really letting go of the marriage and was being expressed in that way. Going your separate ways means each person taking responsibility for themselves – including finding a way to pay for their own health care. Otherwise, why not stay together if you're still playing as a team?
Emotional ties being a completely separate issue? Eh…lots of married guys lookin' for lovin' swear the emotional ties have been long severed. Show me the divorce decree.
Joe 11
As far as the three-year thing goes, I know my state has a requirement that couples be separated for a minimum of one year before divorce papers can be signed. Maybe the OP's state has a similar thing. Or maybe he's agreed in the divorce proceedings to give his wife a three-year grace period of being able to be on his insurance before the papers are final. Maybe she has a health issue like the dude who wrote the other recent letter about still being on his wife's insurance.
Michael 12
Evan, one thing missing from your response (I can't believe I'm saying that – forgive me!): Pat, the single most important thing you can do to improve how women see you:
Get divorced.
Divorced and separated are completely different things. Divorced = single. Separated = still married. No matter what's behind the separation, you're still a married man.
But don't sweat it. Ride out the three years, travel, enjoy life, build a bigger circle of friends, work on being an even better guy than you are now, and once you can truthfully declare that you're single again, you'll have to beat them off with a stick.
And if you DO meet someone in the meantime who's both awesome and accepts your circumstances, well, that's gravy.
Selena 13
@ Joe #11
The OP wrote he's already been physically separated for 10 mos. So even if he lives in NC, he could get a divorce in 2 months. He voluntarily signed up for another 3 YEARS of married-though-separated…which is going to prove to be a problem with some women…and he knows it… hence his letter to EMK.
Paul 14
Most therapistsagree that one should wait for a year or two AFTER the divorce is final before you start dating. It takes that long to heal, it really does for the vast majority of people. I do understand that some people can turn it off like a light switch (Gemini's are reported to be like that) but not most people. If you start dating before that, there is still a part of you that you can't give, the part that is still there weather you think so or not, and that means you don't have 100% of yourself to give to another person. And she doesn't know that, so it's really not fair to the other person because they're thinking that you are 100% fully available. I was out dating shortly after my divorce and I just wasn't ready. Thought I was though.
Christie Hartman 15
Most of the women who write me with painful stories aren't dating divorced men, they're dating men getting divorced. Men in this category are usually a nightmare to date (although there are exceptions). They date way before they're ready, often have little to offer a woman, drag her into their mess, and wind up hurting her. Should this guy be concerned about women wanting to date him? Hell yes, and for good reason. Like Michael (#12) said, he should focus on living his life and getting his stuff together; then, maybe he'll have something to offer a woman.
Diana 16
While I would not date a legally married man in any situation, there are many women who would, depending on what Pat has to offer. My advice is for him to try meeting new people like in an activities club where the emphasis is not on dating, and then slowly try casual dating vs. aiming for a relationship, until his divorce comes through, and to continue his counseling, and to make a new life for himself where dating is not at the center.
In alignment with Paul's comments, I had a conversation yesterday with a good male friend of mine who shared that for some men, the devastating loss of a marriage or a long-term relationship can take years for them to totally heal from. In general, men often struggle to fully understand and to process and handle their emotions in such situations. They often lack a support system, too, so it's great that Pat is seeing a counselor. So few men do.
Some men will think they're ready when they are not, or they will feel that if they shutter up the windows to their emotions they'll be fine, and they will also make the mistake of thinking that a female's touch is all they need. Men actually experience emotions more profoundly than women, but you wouldn't know it because they have been trained to squelch them within a mere few seconds of their realization.
downtowngal 17
OP, go ahead and date, but be honest with what you realy WANT and NEED at the moment. Lots of guys don't do this, or don't know what they want until the women are already emotionally entwinded. So, YES, women have a right to be wary, esp if they're looking for LTR's.
Every guy I know who's divorced has warned me against getting involved with a guy who has't been legally divorced for at least a year, esp if he has kids. It takes a while to settle into a new life before being ready for that type of emotional committment.
Michael 18
“I Am Separated (And Soon To Be Divorced). How Can I Convince Women To Give Me a Chance?”
By getting a divorce.
Cathy J 19
re:#9
As author of ‘Find True Love’ I also advise against dating people who are not divorced. While you are not yet divorced, you are still married.
Two scenarios are:
One, he may go back to his wife, yes, usually for the sake of the children.. and often it still ends in divorce. Although I believe that most people do not want to be the home-wrecker and break up a family or stop them reconciling. Observing those around me had shown me that often couples separate and reconcile at least once and often over years before divorcing; and
Two, the person may deliberately not divorce as he (or she) is a commitment phobe and it becomes a further barrier.
Either way not a situation I recommend.
Once the divorce is final, if the person at least on the surface is full functioning, there is hope that they have have grieved the lost dreams and are ready to start afresh.
Joe 20
@ Selena #13:
Being physically separated is not the same as being legally separated. The OP isn't clear when the legal separation happened, but I don't get the vibe that it happened simultaneously with the legal separation.
IamDavid 21
This is a tough spot. Separated but not divorce until 3 years is definitely need to know information. Women have a right to know and rightfully should be skeptical. Instead of focusing so much on women and relationships, perhaps if might be time to focus on you and your individual passions. Do things that bring you happiness in the here and now, make friends, learn new things, and try to enjoy yourself instead of putting so much energy into a negative point in your life. Put that energy into positive points.
Jody 22
I’m in the age range where all the divorces have started, so I know lots of people who either are divorced or in the process. As a single-never-married-don’t-care-if-I-marry person, I have dated legions of separated/divorced guys and listened to still more.
Speaking generally, they are, in a word, tedious.
Because of these experiences, I will never, ever go out with a separated/divorced guy again. Most of these guys are still deep in their marriages and cannot see it, and dating for them is usually about finding some ally in a fight against the ex. And after awhile, you start to understand all of the “and then she said” comments that the guy passes on in his rants against his ex.
But if a divorced person wants to date, here are some (unsolicited) tips from someone who has listened too much:
1) Do not badmouth your ex, no matter how awful you think she/he is. Keep your rage to yourself. Dates are supposed to be fun for both parties–not free therapy for you.
2) Do not make your time with the new person dependent on your ex’s schedule. If your ex is jerking you around with child visitations or whatever, manage your EX, not the new person. No sane person is going to live his/her life according to the dictates of some third party he/she doesn’t know.
3) Don’t do more for your ex, give more to your ex, or consider your ex’s feelings more than you do for/give to/consider the new person. If your ex lives in the house you shared, the ex can mow the lawn, even if that used to be your job. If your ex needs a ride somewhere and can’t drive, it’s on him/her. If something you do with the new person is going to upset the ex, tough. If all of your energy and resources are going to the ex, then sleep there.
4) Do not wax rhapsodic about how great your marriage was, how great the sex was, how in love you were. Go back if it was so great.
5) If you go back, even momentarily, do not contact the new person ever again. You have blown it with that person. Leave that person alone. Handle your confusion; do not drag some innocent person into it.
6) Do not introduce the new person to your kids unless you have a serious, ongoing relationship with the new person. Do not use your kids as a channel of information to let your ex know that you are seeing someone new.
7) Do not bring the new person to family events where the ex will be unless you are in a serious, ongoing relationship with that new person. In short, do not cast the unwitting new person in revenge scenarios.
8) Do not expect the new person to pay for everything or more than is fair because your ex has all of your money or because the lawyers cost so much.
9) Do not talk about how you want to get married again, even if you think you do, and especially if it was “all [your] ex’s fault because [he/she] is crazy.” No one believes you, and you seem like the crazy one.
10) Understand that always-single people have remained single for a reason–most likely to avoid the kind of drama that you are now stuck in. So, while a person without your baggage might seem like a good match for YOU, you may not seem like a good match for that person. We have our own wants/cares/needs/problems that differ from yours and to which YOU are not particularly sympathetic. So stay away from always-singles unless you really are ready to be fully single again.
Hadley Paige 23
RE: Jody's Post @ 22 " if a divorced person wants to date, here are some (unsolicited) tips"
Brilliant advice >> Every divorced or seperated male should have these tips posted on their refrigerator so that they can be reminded every day of what not to do.
Hadley Paige 24
I can't tell you how happy and relieved I am that despite my sometimes inflammatory observations no one gives me flak about my spelling errors (as in my previous post here)
HRGoddess 25
@ Jody – loved your tips! Helpful for those that are dealing with these issues and helpful for those of us who got lucky and already have a divorced fella who is following these tips! Nice!
Selena 26
Both letters Evan has printed on the subject of staying married for health insurance have been from men – one who would stay married indefinetly to stay on his wife's policy, the other who would stay married for 3 years so his wife could stay on his policy. My question is for the male readers:
What are your thoughts on getting involved with a woman who plans to stay legally married for years/indefinetly for health insurance or another financial reason? Either because it's to her benefit, or she wants to help out her husband? She swears the marriage is emotionally over and she's ready to move on.
Karl R 27
Jody,
As a never-married man, I like how your post applies equally well for divorced men and women. Very sound advice.
Selena asked: (#26)
"What are your thoughts on getting involved with a woman who plans to stay legally married for years/indefinetly for health insurance or another financial reason? Either because it's to her benefit, or she wants to help out her husband?"
She's not available for a long-term relationship. I might consider a casual short-term relationship, but I'd also keep my eyes open for someone who was available for a long-term relationship.
Cathy J 28
Jody – great advice – where’s your blog – lol??
Important topic and interesting to see so many agree.
sayanta 29
Jody-
Awesome post!!! Can I cut and paste it to send to divorced dudes who IM me on dating sites? :-p
Ruby 30
My biggest problem has always been with men who have been dumped. Dating a separated, still married man whose wife left him – never. I've dated guys who've been divorced for years and they still weren't ready to move on if their wife was the one who left.
The funniest words in the OP's letter were: "And even if it didn't work out permanently would that be so bad?" Apparently not for him, because he is not really ready to move on. As Evan said, while dating always involves some risk, most women don't want to get involved with someone who would be considered high-risk.
HRGoddess 31
@ Ruby – same here… the divorced guys I've had "moving on" issues with were the ones who were left by their wives. When the guy does the leaving, I find it to be a whole different story.
starthrower68 32
Dating a separated man can and does work out; my ex and his current wife are celebrating 5 years of marriage this summer. They met when we were two months into the separation. But I believe that is the exception and NOT the rule. There is no drama between the ex and myself and his wife and I get along very well. They are people I'd probably be friends with whether there was history or not.
When I have heard some men badmouth their exes, I often wonder what her side of the story would be. Not because a separated/divorced guy is a bad man, but having gone through my own divorce, it's quite often the fault of both not one.
Lance 33
I've never been married, but I know this: being separated is TOTALLY NO BIG DEAL and it's practically like being labeled single. I have *multiple* separated friends who are dating like crazy. My roommate is separated and still legally married and he's getting more chicks now than he has in his entire life. Chicks don't even bat an eye about it.
It's really simple. When you talk to them, tell them you're separated and make it no big deal and just play it cool. If you make a big deal about it then chicks will think it's a big deal and it becomes a red flag.
Divorces can take years especially if there are weird property and financial circumstances. Dating should start right away.
Bill 34
@Diana #16
You said "Men actually experience emotions more profoundly than women, but you wouldn't know it because they have been trained to squelch them within a mere few seconds of their realization".
Uhh…no. Men experience emotions differently than women do. We aren't "trained" to squelch them. It always makes me cringe when I hear women talk about men's inner dialogue in this way, it assumes women experience emotions the "right" way and men have only "learned" to experience emotions the "wrong" way.
I can tell you, from my own experience, observation, discussion among my male peers, and most of all, research, that men are (to greater and lesser degrees) wired to internalize far more so than most women.
We don't have as much need to seek external council for our internalizations: after all, what good will it do? We know what the "problem" is, we know what the "options" are for addressing said problem. We just have to make a decision, and no one else can do that for us.
Now this isn't all men, but from the peer-reviewed research I've read, it describes most men, to varying degrees. And the bulk of men reside far more on the "internalize" end of the spectrum. And believe us, it's not from training. There is no thought in our heads that say "I really want to share this, but I must keep this to myself". The thought of sharing these things with someone like most women do doesn't even occur to us – they are our personal possessions that aren't meant for the consumption of others.
Diana 35
To Bill #34, I knew I shouldn't have rushed through my posting.
What I was trying to convey is that society has taught men to hide or even reverse their immediate emotional reactions. I should have stated "taught" vs "trained" and "hide" vs "squelched." I'm sorry for my poor choice of words, as I did not intend to offend anyone.
Surprisingly for some people is the knowledge that a man's initial emotional response is stronger than a woman's, but it's difficult to recognize because men typically hide their emotion in about 2.5 seconds. After having read the books titled, "The Female Brain" and "The Male Brain," I can assure you that our brains are indeed wired differently, and this includes experiencing emotions differently. I don't really see this as right or wrong for either sex; merely different. I actually think they compliment each other by balancing each other out.
Bill 36
@Diana #35
LOL…yea, quick responses don't always allow us to pick just the right words!
Anyway, I still disagree a bit with "What I was trying to convey is that society has taught men to hide or even reverse their immediate emotional reactions."
While I would agree that our cultural indoctrination does convey to boys/men that they should hide/reverse their emotional decisions, I contend that by wiring most men do this already. The cultural norms don't define male behaviour, but rather are a reflection of male nature. Sort of a chicken-and-egg scenario…how could society develop this norm unless it was already present in a majority of men?
Again, I can speak from my own experience, and that of friends…most men simply don't feel the impetus to share what they feel – it's not a useful activity for us.
I do agree that intensity of certain emotional responses is greater in most men…hormonal levels alone could account for this, given how different men and women are hormonally. Let alone all the other differences (brain wiring, functional brain differences, etc). I've explained to every woman I've dated what rage is like, and how intense arousal was as a young adult male. They are always stunned at what I describe.
Oh, and men and women are definitely complementary…it's that way by nature's design!
April 37
I really have an aversion to the 'men and women are naturally wired differently or their brains are different' type of talk. People in general have different characteristics and for a specific characteristic someone attributes only to a woman, I can list the men that have the same and vice versa.
There are more differences between individuals than genders. But then again, I also don't assign human characteristics to being either male or female…they are just human traits that an individual has.
Selena 38
@April #37
Amen.
Bill 39
@April #37
You may have an aversion to discussion the very real, very physiological, very research-supported perspective that the genders are critically different in brain structure and chemistry, but that doesn't change the fact that we are.
Check out the books that Diana referenced ("The Female Brain" and "The Male Brain,"), and others like them. It's astounding how diffrent male and female brains are from early pregnancy. There are very clear hormonal stages that a fetus goes through to "set" the brain in certain ways. The studies bear this out, even to the point of doctors being able to predict certain traits.
The genders demonstrate far more difference than individuals within each gender – it's impossible to be otherwise, because masculinity and femininity occur on a continuum, with androgyny representing the middle. Some physiological males are more feminine than others, some physiological females are more masculine than others. But masculine males and feminine females still represent the bulk of the continuum.
What we're really talking about when we say "men" is the bell curve with it's peak at the center of the masculine portion of the continuum, and when we say "women", the bell curve peak at the center of the feminine portion of the continuum.
We're talking about averages and means, "most-often"s and "usually"s. Yes, we'll all see exceptions – these are the people who represent the reaches of the continuum, or the slopes of the bell curves.
Of COURSE "human characteristics… are…human traits that an individual has."…what Diana and I are talking about is the gender distribution of those traits/characteristics. The research is very clear about this distribution of traits, and even has quite a bit of study attempting to identify the source of these traits. Functional MRI scans are incredibly enlightening about how our brains consistently respond in gender-specific patterns to specific stimuli. In other words, nearly all men's brains show one pattern when exposed to a given stimulus, while nearly all women's brains show a different (but gender-consistent) pattern when exposed to the same stimulus.
What's really fascinating is that some of these studies show the response pattern is also the same across cultures for each gender! In other words, culture has little or no influence on certain stimulus/response pairs, but gender does!
Carl 40
This is not going to be politically correct and I will get a lot of heat for this, because it is not the BS that everyone will feed you such as "be yourself" and "it will happen".
Step #1 Become Rich
Step #2 Become an Arrogant Jerk
Step #3 Buy a Ferrari
Step #4 Buy nice clothes, shades, shoes, and a watch
Step #5 Drive through a college town in your Ferrari
Step #6 Try NOT to get stampeeded by the woman running towards you
Repeat
Jonesey 41
Bill@39: There is lots of research that contradicts this as well. More than one side to the story. Unless you cherry-pick your research. Why one side of the argument and not the other, eh? Interesting question.
But fundamental to the argument is whether or not you blame your behavior and choices on your biology. Or whether you don't.
We've been through this before on this thread and it's boring. Men are strong advocates of the biology-based theories of behavior. Women don't buy it. They see it as men refusing to accept responsibility for their bad behavior by blaming it on hormones. It's too bad you have such crappy biology. Why not focus on "rewiring" it? Lots of studies on how "nurture" affects biology–why not apply some of that?
Diana 42
The brain's physiological and biological differences between the sexes is fascinating to me, and has helped me to better understand men, as well as women. This does not discount the value, significance and impact of our uniqueness and our personal choices, other genetic factors, and our vast environment as we journey through life.
I like bridging the two together, and trying to find a balance. I am smart enough to see through a smoke screen when a man may be trying to blame his bad behavior solely on the "that's how I'm wired, sweetie" excuse. This observation does not weaken or discount what all I have learned.
Joe 43
Even if your theory is correct, Jonesey, you might be able to rewire your son by "nurture," but you won't be able to rewire a man that way, since he's already way past the "nurture" stage.
Jonesey 44
@43: Read "The Brain That Changes Itself: Stories of Personal Triumph From The Frontiers Of Brain Science," a book on neuroplasticity by psychiatrist and psychoanalyst Norman Doidge, M.D. He contends that one of the most changeable/teachabe parts of the human brain is the one responsible for sexual response. Sorry, guys.
Joe 45
For any psycho-babble book that says X, there's another psycho-babble book that says the opposite of X.
April 46
@Bill #39
Sorry, but just as Jonesey mentioned above, there is plenty of research that concludes that the brain differences between men and women are miniscule, and that it is quite common for people to blow these differences out of proportion.
Katarina Phang 47
April, they are not that miniscule. If you had been through a relationship in which communication was falling apart because one of us assumed that the other was just thinking and operating like us, you would see all of these notions were really not an exaggeration.
Men and women are really a contrast to each other, that’s why we are attracted to each other in the first place.
With this knowledge comes acceptance, peace of mind and self-empowerment. I understand and accept my husband much better now and as such he responds accordingly in a way that makes me happy.
Katarina Phang 48
For one thing, I must add, the way men cope with stresses is totally the opposite of women. Men need testosterone to manage their stress while women need oxytocyn. Men need to do things, to accomplish or withdraw to reduce their stress levels, while women need to talk, connect and bond. (see how many relationships fall apart for failing to understand this factor alone?).
I recommend Joh Gray’s book on the subject. It’s very eye-opening.
April 49
Actually I feel better when I do things to cope with stress.
April 50
If you’re the type of man or woman who thinks completely different from the opposite site sex then great, but there are also just as many men and women who think and react very similarly.
Adrienne 51
Hmmm – Not certain of Pat’s age but . . .
Avoid women in their 30’s that have never been married and had children of their own. I have to be honest, I’ve found the man I want to spend the rest of my life with . . . last October at 36. Just two days before I met him (after a disaster with a man who was separated and divorcing) my best friend who made me pinky-swear over the phone three times: I want to be married and have a family. I want to settle down. I will re-read the book Why Men Marry Some Women And Not Others until my eyes fall out. I will only date men who are ready to settle down and that have never been married or had children. I will not date anyone over the age of 40.
Why that mantra? For me? For other women like me that have had a few go-rounds, they get back with their ex. . . or – aha! They heal with you for many ‘years’ then marry someone else who has been married/divorced/children. Why would I turn Pat down?
I’m now 37 – I don’t have that many years left. If I want to craft the life I desire: I can’t wait 3 years. What happens at 39/40 if he changes his mind after the divorce? So in Pat’s case – perhaps dating a younger woman in her 20’s who DOES have the time to see what happens after 3 years would work? And she might not have already been through the rodeo.
Hey! Those experiences I did have were invaluable. Wouldn’t trade them for the world. But I’m not alone. I have many friends in my space and place and they would say the same thing: I already LEARNED those lessons of loss. Now it’s MY turn to learn the lessons in commitment and the deep love that goes with it.
It might seem harsh, but if you want to be married and have a family – you have to go with men who are 100% available. Not just from a separated/divorce standpoint – but all levels. If the women you are approaching are in their mid to late 30’s and they say at the singles situation you are meeting them in: I’ve never been married or had children. And you ask them out and they say, “No.”
I’m here to be honest. It’s in the Four Agreements. Take nothing personally. Don’t stop trying and kicking yourself over the “No”>
I’m sure she’s out there but you have to stack the deck in your favor by approaching women who aren’t in this demographic. I actually own an online magazine for single women 35-55 (launched in May) and my little pups (myself included) tend to be very focused on the family. That three years of waiting could totally destroy a woman’s chance to having a full marriage/family life. Sorry to focus on marriage, marriage, marriage – but I’m a woman reading Evan’s site. If I didn’t want that – then I would have no business being here. And his insights obviously worked for me because he’s here in my life now.
Eric 52
I agree with all that Evan said.
As one relatively new to rejoining the dating scene, I find this thread interesting on a number of levels. Principally, I am interested in learning to be a better partner in all relationships regardless of the level of commitment, future prospects or sexual involvement. I have no desire to mislead or toy with anyone’s emotions least of all my own. That said, I am merely separated and it will take much longer than I wish for me to completely extricate myself from my last marriage due to financial encumbrances.
I don’t begin to claim that I can speak on behalf of others in my position but I do have clear opinions on several of the points raised above.
At the outset, I understand and respect the wishes of all who prefer not to date those who, like myself, are separated or in the process of divorce. I raise no argument to dissuade you of your position. However, I do take objection to the notion that I should do anything but date until the ink has dried at least 365 days on my divorce papers. I decide when I am ready and offer to date whomever I choose. They are free to decline on any grounds and are under no obligation to give explanation.
It is not possible to be completely “over” our past relationships. Their tentacles tug in so many subtle ways both good and bad. Regardless of where you fall on the nature vs. nurture argument, we are all indelibly impressed with our past and more significantly our responses to it even if we are unaware. At best, we can try to identify self-defeating patterns and behaviors, discover their source and work to replace them with new, healthy behaviors. That task is never complete as each change in our ever evolving world makes some behaviors that were beneficial in the past now counterproductive.
Benchmarks for progress toward the goal of social intelligence and personal evolution are still imprecise. Time alone does not promote social progress. Rather, our quality of life and personal satisfaction are directly related to our commitment toward personal growth and our awareness of the needs of others. We each define for ourselves what constitutes maturity and how much social intelligence we deem appropriate and compatible with our class and goals.
With that in mind, I can say with clear conscience that I have more to give to a new partner today than I ever had with my past partners. I further have every intention of becoming a still better partner tomorrow. Those I offer to date will have to decide for themselves if I am sufficiently advanced.
Regarding who dumped whom. Does it really make a difference? I’m the one who pulled the plug on my marriage with my ex. It was the last thing in the world that I wanted to do but efforts to reconcile failed miserably and I refused to be taken advantage of any longer. However, throughout our breakup and divorce, my ex and I have worked hard to maintain a cordial relationship. We are forced by our financial ties to interact with each other and there seems to be no reason to become bitter or act vindictively. Cordial does not imply that either of us seek to reconcile now or in the future. I made it quite clear when we broke up the final time that all efforts to reconcile had been exhausted and that it was no longer nor would ever be again an option.
In summary, I do not follow the crowd and I’m not waiting years more before I get into another serious and committed relationship while at the same time I’m in no rush to do so. That a legal document attesting to our commitment is some time away is not a deterrent for me though it might be for others.
Good luck to each of you in your pursuit of love!
Eric
Selena 53
I agree that “who dumped whom” isn’t as relevent as some may think. Because by the time the final parting comes, usually the relationship has already been in bad shape for some time for both parties.
And dating while separated, but still legally married shares the same condition with dating while legally single: it’s still all about finding someone who wants to date you – period.
starthrower68 54
I guess it just depends on the people involved. I have been sorta chatting with one guy who is separated but claims they are not divorced because of financial reasons. Now the fact that we only chat when he’s at work sends up a red flag that the marriage might not be as “over” as he says. But if you’re staying together for financial reasons, you’re going to not be divorced for a very long time because life isn’t getting any cheaper.
Selena 55
“But if your’re staying together for financial reasons, you’re going to not be divorced for a very long time because life isn’t getting any cheaper.” – Starthrower68 #54
Very astute observation!
Colie 56
I am currently going through a divorce & have been separated for 9 months now & recently dated a separated man who had only been separated 2-3 months. He stated that his relationship had been dead for a year and his wife decided to move out. There were red flags, but I decided to ignore them because this man was a gentlemen & seemed emotionally needy like me, so I thought that we were on the same page. He definitely wasn’t ready to move on & in so many words made that clear, but I honestly thought that the wife had moved on & forgotten about him until yesterday when she emailed him stating that she wanted to try again. He quickly said yes without even thinking about whether they had what it took to make it work. I only hope that she didn’t hurry to get him back out of fear that someone else had already picked him up.
Delite65 57
I had to learn the hard way as well. I dated a separated man for almost 2 years and when I met him, his divorce became final 3 months later. But boy, was it an emotional rollercoaster dealing with him! He was with her for a total of 12 years, married for 9 years. As time went on we became engaged about a year in a half into our relationship. But guess what happened? He ended up dumping me for someone he was involved in 14 years ago and within 3 weeks of dumping me he asked her to marry him and they got married 4 months later just that quick. How devastating!! No, I would NEVER DATE ANOTHER MAN WHO IS SEPARATED!! You would be the rebound for sure!! Don’t do it!! People need time to healed after a divorce so they don’t carry baggage into the next relationship! This was a lesson I had to learn the hard way!!!
Delite65 58
I agree with Ruby #30….with dating a separated man whose wife left him. That was my situation with my last boyfriend. NEVER NEVER NEVER AGAIN!!!!