I Don’t Want To Be A Cougar; I Want A Relationship With A Younger Man!
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Firstly, thanks for all your advice and wisdom and your massively entertaining style. I’m learning fast but still have a problem… I’m in my late 40’s, separated last year (relief), successful, and have an awesome life. I’m highly attractive, hot even!, fit, fun, feminine and not clingy. I’m a really good catch!! I have no trouble attracting men of all ages. The problem is: I am not attracted to men my own age. I love guys who are around the 30 year old mark. Yes, playing with fire I know!! Unfortunately, it seems, single guys my own age either cannot match my physical energy and sheer enthusiasm for life or they are taken already! Many of them are lonely, often damaged by failed relationships and looking for someone to share a latte with on a Sunday morning for the next 40 years… This is not what I want at this point in my life.
I find younger guys so much more fun and attracting them is easy, both online and off. But it’s difficult finding something deep and long lasting as I know these guys are usually hard wired to find ‘the one’ eventually. And– in most cases–that is not going to be with a woman who is pretty well past childbearing age… Bummer for me!
So do you think it is possible to have a passionate relationship of integrity (by that I mean more than just a romp) when there is a big age difference? I want more than the cougar/toy boy experience. It would be a cliche to write this off as midlife crisis, although I understand you could reach this conclusion. I am an exceptionally vibrant and youthful person for my age and I have a lot of close younger friends, but I really don’t know where to look to find my truly compatible match… Is he actually out there I wonder??
AM
Dear AM,
Thanks for your letter and kind words. I try to be honest first, entertaining second, and nice third, so I’m glad to hear that I’m coming close to my intended goal.
Especially since my reply is not going to be all that nice.
A 30-year-old guy most likely sees you as a story, a fling, a reverse May-December romance that he will look back upon fondly one day when he tells his younger wife the tale of the oldest woman he ever bedded.
The fact is, your letter could have been written by ANY of my clients.
No joke.
When I hear on the phone “I’m in my late 40’s. People always think I’m younger because I’m so fit and energetic. I’m just not attracted to men my own age or older,” all I can do is smile and nod, the way you do when your friend asks if she looks fat in her jeans.
Understand: I don’t know you, haven’t seen you, and am not impugning your integrity.
All I’d ask you to do would be to put yourself in my position.
If every single man you met said, “I look great for my age. Women my age just can’t keep up with me. I need to find a woman who is 15-20 years younger who is really on my wavelength,” you would roll your eyes and wonder aloud what kind of delusional pot he was smoking. You’d think, “Dude, get OVER yourself. I mean, yeah, you have your hair and you’re pretty fit, but you don’t look as young as you think. Plus, what could you POSSIBLY have in common with a woman who could virtually be your daughter?”
Or something like that.
So I’m not judging you when you say that you prefer men 15-20 years younger.
I’ll just say to you what I’ve said to men who told me the same thing: who cares?
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92 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Eve 1
I’m sure that’s nice advice but it doesn’t answer her question of whether she can find a younger partner for a relationship not just based on sex. The answer is of course yes but there are of course pitfalls-as in any relationship. Don’t dismiss everyone round your own age as past it & don’t dismass all the younger guys as just looking for a shag.
Denise 2
Who writes these questions anyway? Good to have confidence, but so many of these letters claim these women are ‘all that and a bag of chips’. Wonder how this comes off when relating to a man?
This woman isn’t divorced yet, maybe it might be better to slow down and get a grip on where she is in her life. No harm in dating all kinds of men and having fun. People who are newly separated do not make for good mates. Separating and divorcing from a marriage or long term relationship is a process, which requires steps and, if done in a constructive way, important lessons are learned. This is no matter how crappy the relationship was. I must admit I was under the same delusion, that I could just start my new life after my husband I decided we weren’t going to married any longer. Now in hindsight, I can see the changes I went through and where I am today is different from where I was 4 years ago.
Diana 3
I can understand what AM has shared to an extent. I am fortunate in that I have aged gracefully, and I love to do all kinds of fun activities. But while much younger men have taken an interest in me, I won’t allow myself to go there because I know there’s no future and it’s not what I want. Yet the men that are closer to my age who are available either want someone younger or they rarely interest me. Sometimes it’s because of their appearance, but more so because of their life stories and their emotional health, or lack thereof. (And yes, I know. I have life stories, too.) And true to life, the 60 plus crowd shows a lot of interest, too, but I just can’t seem to move beyond the thought of becoming someone’s nurse or wondering how many people they’ve slept with. As a friend recently said, “Well, the 50 year old wants someone 35, and the 65 year old is too old for you.” True. I just keep looking.
Ruby 4
Whether you are male or female, an 18-year age difference is pretty big. Most people, regardless of age, want someone who is within 5-10 years of their own age. Why does AM’s partner have to be that much younger? I’m around the same age as the OP, also don’t look or act it, and generally date men who are a few years younger, but 15-20 years seems like a stretch.
If she’s not even divorced yet, it sounds like she isn’t ready for something more serious. It’s hard to believe that she is seriously looking for something “deep and long-lasting” with someone so much younger, especially knowing how hard it would be to find that person in the first place. If 40 years drinking lattes on Sunday sounds too permanent at this point, what’s wrong with a fling? Also, if AM has so many close, younger friends, why not ask them to set her up?
Steve 5
Evan wrote
The other blind spot you appear to have is the same one that afflicts all of my clients over the age of 40: narcissism and exceptionalism.
Evan, by this do you mean that many people think they are more special than other people in the dating pool and that the rules that apply to other people don’t apply to them personally?
Luxe 6
Many of them are lonely, often damaged by failed relationships and looking for someone to share a latte with on a Sunday morning for the next 40 years..
To me, this doesn’t sound like something exclusive to men around the OPs age. When I’ve read online profiles of guys in their 30′s (this is the age group I look in, me being in my late 20s) most of them say or imply that they want sort of companion. And some profiles you can sense a bit of “failed relationships” in those too. So really, I think the mindset of the OP is a little off. This is a universal thing.
Of course the OP has a chance at finding a long lasting good relationship with a younger guy. It’s just that the odds aren’t in her favor if she does that exclusively, which she already seems to know. All you can do is weed out the ones who wants flings faster and open up your dating opens to more quality guys.
Steve 7
@Eve #1
IMHO I thought Evan did answer her question and the answer was “not likely”.
Steve 8
Younger guys want to hook up with older women for sex. Relationships aren’t likely. There is the subculture gap between age groups getting in the way. Then there is the issue of whether or not he can handle the way his circle of people will view him being seen with a significantly older partner. Additionally many guys will likely be thinking it is fun for now but in ___ years she will be ___ and he will be only____ and does he really want to be stuck with a person that old when he is ___ and could be with a woman who is ____.
Exceptions do happen, but they are exceptions, not the trend for what happens with most people.
Donna 9
I agree with almost everything Evan said…I do think you need to be open to a range of ages – both older and younger – the focus should be on finding the person who is right for you, not how old they are. It goes without saying that the person who is right for you will be able to keep up with you, regardless of how old he is.
The only thing I disagree with is the comment that if you are in the top 5%, then attracting a mate in the top 5% should be easy. Maybe the attracting is easy, but the finding is not. When you are 26 almost everyone is fit and healthy and fairly attractive. As you get older, there are a lucky few who retain all those characteristics, but they are few and far between. Because they are rare, there is nothing easy about finding them.
But, I see AM’s point. I am a 35 year old female, 105lbs, blonde hair, blue eyes and fairly attractive. I’m no Angelina Jolie, but I don’t scare small children, either. I am complimented frequently on my appearance and I keep myself in shape. (Sorry Evan for being one of your typical responders!) I would prefer a man as close to my own age as possible, but have a hard time finding a single man of that age. Which means I get a lot of offers from younger (average 26) and older (average 50) men. Quite frankly I tend to date the younger ones for reasons similar to AM’s – the older ones I have dated either cannot keep up physically, realize they have waited too long to start a family and want me as a baby factory, or want me as a weekend nanny to their kids from prior marriages. You can say a significantly younger man has an agenda for dating an older woman – but older men also have an agenda for dating significantly younger women. The agendas are just different.
So my suggestion to AM would be twofold: first, give guys your age a chance to prove whether or not they can keep up. If you find one who can, don’t discount him on age alone. Second, try expanding your search geographically if you can. I’ve found I have had more luck finding what I want (my age, no kids) by being willing to look beyond the typical 50 mile search range on most online sites.
Steve 10
Denise 2
.
Who writes these questions anyway? Good to have confidence, but so many of these letters claim these women are ‘all that and a bag of chips’. Wonder how this comes off when relating to a man?
Isn’t it a kicker Denise? And women are the ones who vocally complain about men’s inflated egos
Just the other day I got into an IM conversation with a woman who gave me the same line as the OP, along the lines of “men my age can’t keep up with me”.
I’m guess that means the women who write this are fitness enthusiasts who do half marathons or they are amphetamine addicts.
Andrea 11
This doesn’t answer her question but I have to wonder why there are so many 50 year men and women who really think that they look 30? And as many super fit active baby boomers I see, why do people think that being fit and active makes them so unique? In my fitness classes, I was always the youngest by a good bit. Everyone, including the teachers always seemed to be north of 40 and in amazing shape. Maybe it’s b/c what might come naturally to people has to be worked for more as you age? Orthopedic surgeons are struggling to keep up with older people who want a new knee to do the Iron Man. It’s not just 1 or 2 people who are like that.
A lot of people brag about looking so young online but they are always wrong in my opinion ( say that as a 30 something). My favorite was looking at the picture of someone I’d peg as 45-50 bragging that he knew he looked young b/c until 5 years ago, he was still getting carded at Trader Joes. Yeah, well, my local Trader Joes (and several other stores) had signs that they carded anyone that they thought was 40 or under. So in his case, they had him just right and stopped carding him by his 40th birthday. Getting carded does not mean you look 21. It just is policy in some places that unless you have your grandkids with you, they want to see ID.
I think that the best answer is that she might find a younger man who is willing to forgo having natural children to marry her but just like anyone who is dating out of their age range(or any other “range”), the percentage of people who are willing to do that is going to be small. And she might find someone who will stay married to her until she really starts to look like an old lady.
Seriously, there have to be more fit 45-50 year olds who actually do want a woman their age than 30 somethings who want a 50 year old (although true, many men will try and fail to get younger women), but there are still probably more men in the 40+ crowd who would be willing to go for her. And seriously, why SO young? Lots of men still look GREAT at 40 and are super fit and active.
Anyone who is so convinced that they look so much younger really should spend time in a crowd of people who are really that age. A “young” looking 48 year old will totally stand out in a crowd of 30 year olds, and I don’t care how well you’ve taken care of yourself. Hang out with a bunch of business school students, who are all about 30 and see if anyone really falls for that. If you think you look like a college student, hang out with some undergrads or med or law students, who are usually just a couple of years out. In my business school, the MBAs sometimes crowded into the college bar and the comments you heard were “Why are there so many old guys here tonight?” And they were saying that about a bunch of people who on average were 29-30.
I think that Helen Mirren and Susan Sarandon look smashing and could both pull younger boyfriends but let’s not pretend that they still look 40 either. Why isn’t anyone okay just saying that they are a hot X year old?
I think that anyone’s hot much older partner might find themselves getting dumped when what is left of the bloom finally falls off the rose. Seriously, you are bound to age a lot more between 50 and 60 than your boytoy does between 30 and 40, and since men are so visual, that is bound to matter sooner or later. Many public couples wind up in that situation once the lady is unable to maintain her “hotness.”
What is important to remember is that the advice Evan gives is always reflective of the most likely scenario. You might have beat the odds, but it still makes it the exception and not the rule.
Bren 12
I only read this because… I don’t want to be anyone’s cougar! I have men 15 to 20 years younger contacting me…. Flattered at first glance…I now find it almost unflattering wondering what their motives are….
While many attractive men my own age are looking for 20 years younger…I have to wonder if they have grown enough that I would even want them in my life! Their delusions of grandeur… may make them emotionally unavailable… They may be constantly seeking a thrill…
However slim the pool may be…either direction… I agree with Evan…it is so very worth holding out for that man who may be near our age give or take a few years…who feel youthful in ways we might also feel…and ready to love and enjoy life together….just as we are!
Denise 13
#10 Steve
LOL
I know of ONE woman who I think NO ONE can keep up with, she’s the only one I’ve known in my whole life. She has to be doing something every minute of every day–even sleeping is not conducive to resting and doing nothing–and I am not exaggerating either. God love her on where she gets this energy, and she’s 54. When my friend and I spend time with her, we want to know when cocktail time is!
For those women that are ‘older’, we have the benefit of wisdom, maturity and have gotten over our sexual/body hangups. No wonder the young men want us! I am at the place in my life where I do not want to teach any man anything in a big picture way–not how to be a man, not how to be a good lover, not how women work (as close as a man is to figuring it out!).
AndThatsWhyYoureSingle 14
Seriously, there have to be more fit 45-50 year olds who actually do want a woman their age,,,
There are plenty of attractive 45 + men and women out there who would make great partners and seek people their own age. Unfortunately there are too many people who have distorted definitions and perceptions of themselves and cling desperately to their youth. The OP likely enjoys the attention from younger men because she wants to feel young. She convinces herself that these men are genuinely interested in her and what she has to offer. Some are. Most aren’t. Most of the attention from these men is based purely on their desire to have sex with an “older woman” so, as Evan said, they have a story to tell to their bros over beers. By dating someone her age that would be an admission that she is no longer 30. She doesn’t want to face that yet. Which is why, I’ll bet, she takes part in activities that are typically associated with “young” people and has younger friends. It’s not about not being able to relate to people her age. It’s denial and very much a mid-life crisis.
Steve 15
@Andrea #11
I think one of the frequent blunders of online profiles is telling people that you look younger than you are. If it is true, you can let them decide it from your pictures and meeting you. If it is not true, you just look out of touch bringing it up.
BeenThruTheWars 16
I was 44, had just ended a 9-month relationship and was back on the dating scene again. I had Evan help me with my profile and set out to date men around my own age or older. Guess what? They didn’t want me. They wanted someone way younger. Don’t know if it was to have kids with or what, but that was my reality. The men who actively sought me out online, and at my dating service? Were 28-38. I put “no” in my profile in response to the “Do you wish to have children?” question, and every man who was ambivalent about having kids (or actively did not want them) was looking to take me out.
At first, it was a bit disconcerting – but I decided to just go with it. What the heck. My friends teased me about being a cradle robber, and I made my share of cougar jokes. But I found myself having a great time. There are mature and immature men in all age ranges! Dating a 45-year-old doesn’t mean you’ll get a grownup, and dating a 35-year-old doesn’t mean you’ll get a kid.
The man who pursued me with the most enthusiasm was kind of an old soul in a lot of ways. He was on bended knee, proposing, six months after our first date… and he was 33 to my 44. We’ll celebrate our fifth wedding anniversary on January 1, and couldn’t be happier. He’s 39, and I recently turned 50. So what? He would still have been the right guy for me if he were 26, 36, 46 or 56. Age truly is “just a number” under many (though not all) circumstances.
So in answer to the letter writer – yes, it’s more than possible to find a real relationship with a man in his 30s when you’re in your 40s. However, instead of marketing yourself as “young for my age! Really!! Honest!” how about marketing yourself instead as not interested in having kids, in no big hurry to marry again, just looking for companionship and intelligent conversation and an active friendship, and see what happens?
My husband had plenty of opportunities to date hot women younger than himself, but he didn’t want to because in that age range he found they were DESPERATE to get married and have babies right this second! It would make him run for the hills. He told me when we were dating: “I brag to all my friends about you. You’re the first woman it was ever totally my idea to be with and pursue. You don’t need a man, but you choose to be with me. You don’t need to be supported emotionally or financially. Plus, you don’t want kids and neither do I.” All those things were huge to him, and we clicked accordingly. I’m a catch despite my average looks – bright, accomplished, and easy to be with – but instead of chasing after the men I thought I wanted, I put myself out there and let the men who wanted ME gather. It was pleasantly surprising who did. And I just picked.
Karl R 17
AM asked: (original post)
“So do you think it is possible to have a passionate relationship of integrity (by that I mean more than just a romp) when there is a big age difference?”
My girlfriend is 16 years older than me. We’ve been dating for 16 months, and we both see this as the beginning of a permanent relationship.
A few years earlier, I dated a woman 11 years younger than me. Our relationship ended because she wanted lots of kids, and I wanted none. If it wasn’t for that, we might still be together.
It is possible.
AM said: (original post)
“I am not attracted to men my own age. I love guys who are around the 30 year old mark. [...] single guys my own age either cannot match my physical energy and sheer enthusiasm for life”
I’m with Evan. You need to get over yourself.
Your physical energy level can’t be as high as you believe. If it was, even the 30 year olds wouldn’t be keeping up with you either.
I’ve dated women 11 years younger, 16 years older, and every age in between. None of them have kept up with me. If I added “comparable energy level” to my more important criteria, I would be dateless. (The ex-girlfriend who came closest to my energy level was 9 years older than me.)
Instead, I date women who can keep up with me much of the time, and don’t mind that I’m out staying busy when they need a break.
There are women out there who meet or exceed my energy level, but few enough that I’d need to solely choose dates based on that quality if I wanted to date them regularly. It’s just not that important to me. I’d rather be with someone who is fun, unconditionally accepting, sweet, etc.
AM 18
Firstly thanks Evan for your honest, as always, response. Of course I knew you would say all that…but narcissism and exceptionalism..? Judgmental words.. maybe an ounce of truth..but I think the barriers are down these days and age demographics are blurred. It doesn’t have to be the reflection of a major personality disorder!
Secondly Denise, I wrote my own question without a single edit from Evan. And I don’t need to sell myself to younger guys, I’m just very comfortable in my own skin and with my sexuality and they happen to find me attractive. And there are a lot of younger men who actually prefer the company of older women both emotionally and sexually. I have been living apart from my husband for 18 months now and both he and I have strived very hard to maintain our friendship and our business. Not for you to assume it wasn’t done constructively or that important (and painful) lessons haven’t been learned. I have a very positive and centered grip on my life, thank you anyway! And I don’t have an inflated ego, nor do I think for a minute that I look 30! It’s not so much about physical age as mentality and energy.
Steve, Evan does mean that, but I’m afraid there are people out here who don’t fit the norm and that’s without trying too hard. Of course I wish I could find my equal and opposite in my own age group! And I am open to that, but frankly any guy that hot and together, of my own age, is probably going to be the property of some grateful wife! OR he will be hotly pursued by many women and doesn’t need to go online. In addition to that, I’m a performer in the world of music theatre which is the gayest community on this planet!! (beautiful though they may be..!) It is virtually impossible to meet a straight single man at work..(my gorgeous younger female colleagues will attest to this). And yes of course younger men are looking for sex. So am I! But with some depth and commitment even if it’s not sharing sub-cultures all the time, (if ever).
Thank you Diana, Eve and Donna for ‘getting’ it. And Ruby- you are right, I’m probably not up for another ‘marriage’ yet. Bren – It’s hard to hold out (for years?) for the absolutely ideal man when you need to express yourself sexually.
And yet, since writing that letter I have been involved with a beautiful man, who is 20 years younger and with whom I have a rather special relationship. Realistically it’s not going to last forever, I know that. And I know that I am aging faster than him at this stage…tricky..(but fun, and meaningful all the same!). Meanwhile, I’m still hoping that the ‘right’ man will show up…which gets back to my original question..where is he? Because (so far) he ain’t online.
AM 19
BeenThruTheWars – You are A GEM.
Evan Marc Katz 20
Actually, AM, while BeenThruTheWars is a favorite and a friend, she’s only “a gem” because told you want you want to hear. Truth is, not only are most 30 year olds not interested in women in their late 40′s, but they’re not good relationship bets because they’re immature, building their careers, and have lots more oats to sow. The exceptions do not disprove the rule. Proceed at your own risk.
AM 21
Of course you are right but you still haven’t answered my question..a really amazing hot successful man, who’s my age and not desperate/lonely/unhappy/inexperienced with women/in need of a child minder/in need of a movie companion.. is not, in my experience online. So where is he to be found..?
Andrea 22
AM, I think that everyone “gets” it. The point is that it seems that in the dating world, the most likely scenario is that likes attract likes(unlike magnets). Anyone who exclusively chases after something that they are not is going to have a harder time of it. Truthfully, anyone who is an outlier will have a harder time of it. Do you exclude men your age from your search? Or do they just fail to approach you online or respond if you write to them? That makes a difference.
I think that based on what you are looking for, you need to keep all doors open. Too bad Evan can’t match you up with one of those male clients who insists that he’s too young for women his own age!
To me, that’s the part that sounds a bit over the top. I don’t care how energetic you are, there are some SERIOUS differences in how people socialize at different times of life. Maybe you are meeting more mature 30 years olds, but as I mentioned, having just left a graduate program populated by mostly 30 year olds, I can’t imagine anyone who is 50 being into that or being able to hang in that way. To me, “keeping up” means so much more than physical activity or sex. As I mentioned, I’ve seen many people your age who could run circles around people 10-15 years younger, but it would just seem that some aspects of socializing would be a bit odd and they just wouldn’t fit in.
I think you can find what you want, but it’s not going to ever be like it would be if you were 25 looking for a 30 year old, or 30 looking for a 30 year old. A hot 50 year old isn’t going to get as many responses, either from men your own age, or from men who are loads younger as you would have gotten 20 years ago. You are looking for a veritable needle in the haystack, so who knows if that will happen quickly or slowly. I guess what I and maybe some other people don’t get is that you sound surprised that it hasn’t happened easily. How could it, when so many men will list cut off ages as being their own minus 10 years, a 10 year range that is 5 years YOUNGER than their current age, or perhaps a year or two older but 10-15 years younger? What do you have listed? B/c I totally judge men who are 40 who will list 21-39 as their preferred range(b/c if you are doing it b/c you want kids, I find it presumptuous that you’d expect someone to be okay being your broodmare), and secretly give points to people who at least put themselves in the middle of their stated range.
As your profile is basically your own personal marketing brochure, I think that if you are only listing really young men then your profile can’t help but scream COUGAR. So at least list men your own age so that isn’t how you are marketing yourself. I think all of the talk about being comfortable with your sexuality also comes across as cougar, which doesn’t sound like what you want based on your letter. (Have you seen the SNL skit Cougar Den-a good tool to show you exactly what not to do and say if you want to be taking seriously by younger suitors; it is parody but there is clearly some truth to it).
My advice to anyone who is older who wants more than a roll in the hay with someone older. Don’t brag about how hip, young, energetic, or good in bed you are. B/c people who are really that age are easily hipper, more energetic (for partying at least), really are younger, and I think most people figure things out during their 20′s and 30′s and don’t need to turn to someone 20 years older to be satisfied.
I do think that there is something about wanting to live vicariously through someone else’s youth as you move further away from your own. I think it might be why a lot of 30 something women ignoring messages from younger 20 somethings. I mean seriously, do just the 40 and 50 somethings think that they are the only ones being virtually hit on by young guys? My guess is that they try and get largely ignored by the 30 somethings(although I think newly divorced, long married women might go for them). No one has ever said anything inappropriate, but something about the messages always makes me think that they believe older women are freaks.
I’ve been “approached” by young to mid 20 somethings, and I’m in my 30′s and think no way. I guess I’m just not old enough to feel that men my own age lack vigor or stamina(and they are plenty attractive and seem to finally be grown up men), nor do I need any of the “youthful energy” that these young guys have, or expect to find a 25 year old who has the maturity of a man 10 years older(b/c again, the 30-40 year old wrappers look just fine). It sounds like you want a 50 year old in a 30 year old wrapping.
So enjoy your “special” time with your young friend and I hope you find what you are looking for, hopefully in a man closer to your age who won’t get bored and move on.
Denise 23
I’m highly attractive, hot even!, fit, fun, feminine and not clingy. I’m a really good catch!!
If you read more letters coming into Evan that he’s kind enough to answer, there is a similar theme. “I’m the best thing since sliced bread, what’s wrong with everyone else?”
As I said in my post, it’s great to be confident, IMO, this type of language I see over and over isn’t confidence.
I don’t see where I said you said you looked like you were 30.
it seems, single guys my own age either cannot match my physical energy and sheer enthusiasm for life or they are taken already! Many of them are lonely, often damaged by failed relationships and looking for someone to share a latte with on a Sunday morning for the next 40 years
Big assumption here about a lot of men, although I can definitely identify with the ‘taken already’ point.
But it’s difficult finding something deep and long lasting as I know these guys are usually hard wired to find ‘the one’ eventually
Okay, so if you’re separated from your husband and you’re looking to have fun and date around (which is what I said in my post), then go for any man to learn and have fun. But your original post said you’re looking for something ‘deep and long lasting’? Not sure which it is then.
I have been living apart from my husband for 18 months now and both he and I have strived very hard to maintain our friendship and our business. Not for you to assume it wasn’t done constructively or that important (and painful) lessons haven’t been learned. I have a very positive and centered grip on my life
Ditto. Been down that path, and it feels like you’re a little defensive. We’re probably similar personality types–I didn’t mean in any way to say you were a basket case in a corner or being a nutcase either. In regard to ’constructive’–I was referring to the process of becoming a single person again as a process, as opposed to going from a marriage to a heavy relationship, without that grieving and exploratory time. The reality is a separated person been part of a ‘committed’ couple for X amount of time. Both people shared a life together, witnessed each other’s life, built a future together, probably have friends together, routines, rituals, spend time with family–all or some of these things. It takes time to find out who you are as your own person again (the generic you by the way, not you specifically). To create your own life as a single woman (not separated, but divorced and no longer married). Sorry you took offense to me expressing what my learning experience has been. I separated in my early 40′s after a 15 year marriage and two kids–I don’t think I’m that unique. The details are different, but the underlying experiences of all people who are going through a divorce are similar-In my Opinion of course.
And before you think I’m different because I couldn’t or don’t attract men, I have dated a lot since my separation and divorce. I’ve met men on line, I’ve met men organically. I’ve had a couple of longer term relationships (both I learned a ton from), I’ve had friends with benefits relationships. I specifically stay away from younger men because of what I already mentioned; that’s my PREFERENCE though.
Who the heck knows where life will take us and who we will find attractive at a particular time in life? Like the examples above, often times, significant age differences aren’t a factor. I agree with Evan though since that seems to sound more like reality. Frankly, these may be the types of ‘relationships’ that fit your life at this point in time (no real committment, he’s not going to ‘fall hard’ more than likely, etc.), maybe that’s why you are attracted to younger men? Sounds like a good deal for now, if you can keep your emotional wits about you.
Evan Marc Katz 24
@AM – The men you’re looking for are online. You’re either not attracting them or not giving them a chance because of your prejudices. If you’re serious about making online dating into a more fruitful endeavor, please try Finding the One Online. It will make a difference for you, guaranteed.
Zann 25
AM, call me dense, but I just don’t see what your question is. You say you really are “a catch” and quite above the norm in terms of hotness and energy. Younger men are attracted to you and you like to hang with them because they can match you in zest for life and physical prowess. Where’s the problem?
Ohhhhhhh, they’re not interested in anything more in depth or long-lasting? You wish you could have the younger 6-pack, ambitious dude who is also wise, committed, cultured, and devoted? Maybe even mature?
You, me, and about a billion other smart, sexy, intelligent women. Sadly, though, most of us have to settle for men a tad less ideal. Sometimes they even turn out to be decent mates, because they share a mutual history with us…for instance, they remember when phones had a cord and Neil Young was….young. Yes, I know I’m dating myself, but I assure you, in my age group I am just as unique and wonderful as you are. And so are a whole bunch of other women.
We are all flattered when younger men pursue us. It’s just that some of us realize it means two things: you’re holding up well and they’re horny. Stimulating, energetic men your age are out there. Consider the possibility that either you can’t get past what you see as physical deficits in order to get to know them better, or you are putting them off with your superior attitude and sense of entitlement.
Lucia 26
Evan,
I usually agree with everything you say, but as a Cougar Expert I obviously don’t agree on this one. There are plenty of guys in their 20s and 30s on my Facebook & Twitter pages who have absolutely no interest in ever dating women their age or younger. They are not interested in the drama and want someone more mature, so they have no problem dating women 10-15 years older.
Although for some men it may just be about sex, I hear from “Cougar couples” all over the world who are in serious relationships and are very happy.
Just because it may not be the norm, doesn’t mean it can’t work. The dating/relationship landscape is changing. Attraction doesn’t have an age limit.
sandra.tampa 27
IMHO, AM - needs some compassion - not our judgment. She is actually asking for permission because she is confused – but although she wants to elicit a response to her logical “reasons” for considering this type of relationship–her gut knows that although a fling with a 30 yr old man may be tempting – inherently it poses too much risk of loss to be a healthy choice for her. And, I venture that it is a way to avoid what she really needs at this time in her life.
She does not need a fling with a 30 year old man with it’s inherent pitfalls of embarrassment and eventual loss, (Las Vegas odds; a sucker’s bet.) I would rather see her decide to enter into some type of therapy; guided (or not) and/or spiritual self discovery, at this time.
Just posing the question here indicates to me that she is seeking direction. Asking and seeking before taking action seems to me to be a good thing.
Evan I really like your blog and usually your advice – but in this case – Criticizing AM for being shallow does not really help.
Steve 28
AM #18 wrote
Firstly thanks Evan for your honest, as always, response. Of course I knew you would say all that…but narcissism and exceptionalism..? Judgmental words.. maybe an ounce of truth..but I think the barriers are down these days and age demographics are blurred. It doesn’t have to be the reflection of a major personality disorder!
I have a friend who has been a shrink for about 30 years. She isn’t allowed to use the “N word” around me. No, not THAT “N word”. She isn’t allowed to use the word “narcissist”. After 30 years of helping people she is convinced that there is an epidemic of narcissism in the U.S.. LOL, every other person gets labeled as a “narcissist!” with her in a conversation without our special rule.
Narcissism the neurosis that is. Apparently in addition to the personality disorder there is a neurosis by the same name. Psychology is pretty sloppy about defining terms. I’ve Googled around trying to get a sense of what it means. It is not just a synonym for an ego manic. One of the more interesting definitions is that it means someone who thinks they are an exception to the rules for how reality works. Like they are the lottery ticket winner Evan mentions among his clients who think they will find a 20 something guy who is good looking, intelligent, 100% put together and who is interested in an LTR with a middleaged woman when he has many other options. No disrespect meant AM. I have my things too.
You can see this type of narcissism reflected in popular movies. The smart ass who goofs for years, insults people, yet still becomes a success by the end of the movie because there is something special about him, just for being him, that enables him to transcend the rules everyone else has to work with.
Steve 29
AM
Not to put another straw into your camel’s sack, but you wrote that you work in the entertainment industry. I know that tends not to be a 9 – 5 job and that it has its own subculture. Would the guy for you also have to be a performer? Could you relate to a guy who works an ordinary job and/or find him interesting? Are there conflicts between non-performing partners and performing partners?
Steve 30
Evan Marc Katz # 20
Actually, AM, while BeenThruTheWars is a favorite and a friend, she’s only “a gem” because told you want you want to hear.
AM in addition to Evan’s point of BTTW having won the lottery, her lucky exception to the rule may be even less evidence that there is a such a lucky exception waiting for you ( as another single person I hope you find fim ). BTTW’s man is an exception that is rare enough. With your laundry list of must haves and must-not haves such a rare exception as BTTW’s guy might not have been suitable for you either. My god, he could have been a well put together guy who works an ordinary job and who likes to go to movies in his spare time!
No offense meant, I hope you find your knight in shining armour.
Evan isn’t going to tell you how, because he doesn’t believe there is a “how” for generating anomalies.
Maybe you can start your search by asking yourself, if you were such a man, where would you be and what would you be doing?
Good luck
Steve 31
@Andrea post #22
You wrote an interesting post, I’m glad I suppressed my “wall of text phobia” and read it. At your age younger men aren’t “men”, most of them are still boys. I 100% agree with your point that the age groups socialize differently and that “group jumpers” have a harder time fitting in. I’ve felt that divide when I’ve dated women in their late 20s.
I also thought your advice to AM to look at her profile for cross purpose messages was insightful. Particularly the bit about not listing how she is comfortable with her sexuality. I would have found that odd reading it too. I’ve had my sexuality since I’ve been about 12 so I would find such a statement from someone in their 40s to be a bit odd, unless they just came out as gay.
Denise 32
@Lucia 26
That’s probably true in regard to DATING. However, what happens when they want to settle down and for a lot of people, start to have a family. More than likely, they are not going to choose the woman is almost 50 to go down that path.
As I wrote earlier: For those women that are ‘older’, we have the benefit of wisdom, maturity and have gotten over our sexual/body hangups. No wonder the young men want us!
@Sandra.tampa #27
I agree Sandra, which is evident in her posts. She wants to settle down and find Mr. Right, but recognizes that probably won’t be with a man 20 years her junior, although that’s the only men she wants to date. All of this and she’s not divorced yet.
Sometimes, we just have to do what we have to do at the point we are in our life. And learn from it. I would bet that eventually AM will get to the point where she’ll better be able to crystalize what she really wants from a relationship and from life.
BeenThruTheWars 33
@Evan – purely semantics – but I didn’t (set out to) tell AM what she wanted to hear. I shared my own experience, and advised that she reconsider her marketing approach so it was more realistic and age-neutral. It’s true that AM may have only “heard only what she wanted to hear,” but that I have no control over. :-)
The point I apparently didn’t get across strongly enough (my bad) is that this overemphasis on a man’s youth and “hotness” is not germane to finding a deeper, lasting relationship. Those are the appropriate criteria when one is looking for a fling or a trophy to display, not a wife/husband. I didn’t go out looking for a younger guy, but that’s who sought me out because of what I had to offer that women their age didn’t (a child-free lifestyle, freedom from financial burdens, intelligent conversation, grownup companionship, etc.) Nowhere in my dating profile did I mention looks, sexual prowess, fitness/energy level, or anything of that nature either in describing myself or the type of man I was looking for. I would’ve happily chosen a guy my own age or older I clicked with on all cylinders, but that’s not who showed up.
Yes, you need to be sexually compatible with your mate. However, “hotness” is ideally a state of mutual attraction, regardless of looks, age, or fitness level. I would’ve been a great fit with my own husband no matter how old he was (which I did state). I didn’t go out seeking a younger guy. That’s who showed up (much to my consternation at first). I was looking for someone with whom I clicked and connected on a head and heart level. Looks are fleeting, and after forty it’s “patch, patch, patch” for just about everyone.
BeenThruTheWars 34
Re the “winning the lottery” comment – I would feel that way about my husband regardless of how old he is. His age is immaterial to me, as mine is to him (although he is envious that I remember watching The Beatles live on Ed Sullivan). It’s a nice plus in some ways; actuarially, for instance. With a 10 year age gap, it’s less likely that he’ll die before me and I’ll have to spend my final years alone. However, it’s just icing on a much more substantial cake.
Karl R 35
AM said: (#18)
“there are people out here who don’t fit the norm and that’s without trying too hard.”
Match.com statistics for women aged 43 to 48 within 10 miles of my home (378 women):
23% are slender
24% are athletic and toned
51% exercise 3 to 4 times per week
14% exercise 5 or more times per week
33% have a bachelors degree
25% have a higher degree
That’s your competition. If I set my search filters for a woman who is older, educated and in good shape, I’ll get a couple hundred of them. And I’m in a city that falls far below the median in health and education.
If you want to stand out above the online norm, you’ll have to do something more than be attractive, enthusiastic and energetic.
AM said: (#18)
“Of course I wish I could find my equal and opposite in my own age group! And I am open to that, but frankly any guy that hot and together, of my own age, is probably going to be the property of some grateful wife! OR he will be hotly pursued by many women and doesn’t need to go online.”
You’re absolutely right. Just like any woman your age who is your equal will be married to a grateful husband -or- she will be pursued by so many men that she won’t need to go online.
There seems to be a flaw with that line of reasoning. If you’re hot and together, and you’re not married, and you’re online … why wouldn’t men find themselves in the exact same situation?
AM said: (#18)
“I’m just very comfortable in my own skin and with my sexuality”
“It’s hard to hold out (for years?) for the absolutely ideal man when you need to express yourself sexually.”
“And yes of course younger men are looking for sex. So am I!”
“there are a lot of younger men who actually prefer the company of older women both emotionally and sexually.”
Let’s talk about the elephant in the living room. Based on your age and your choice of words, men younger than you (like me) are likely to assume that you’re in perimenopause, your libido is in high gear, and you’re a great candidate for a relationship with lots of sex.
Your emotional maturity isn’t being considered in this decision making process. As long as you’re “not crazy,” that’s good enough.
Furthermore, you’d like a man who’s interested in a serious, long-term relationship. Those men are avoiding you. You’re not legally ready for the kind of relationship those men want until you’re divorced. Even then, they’ll be taking a chance as to whether you’ll be emotionally ready.
You’ve put yourself in a situation where you’re only attracting the men who want a fling. You can’t go anywhere to change that. You’ll have to change yourself.
Goldie 36
I think it is one heck of an assumption to say that men in their 40s are only interested in “sharing a latte on a Sunday morning for the next 40 years”… I for one feel the need to step up and defend the guys of my generation
Just like in any other age group, there is a huge variety. Just like AM, or myself, wouldn’t want to be lumped in together with “all women in their 40s”, neither would those men. Guys who believe that life is a constant growing and learning process do exist. If they didn’t, then what’s the point in getting together with a 30-year-old anyway? he’ll just turn into another couch potato in ten years.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this blog, it’s that external qualities don’t matter as much in a relationship. It matters infinitely more whether the person is in your karass than whether he’s in your granfalloon. (Sorry, just finished re-reading Cat’s Cradle and cannot get these terms out of my head.)
I’m not without hang-ups myself – mine is that I prefer men in my own age group and am pretty wary of anyone else, be it a 30-year-old or a 50-year-old. Something I need to work on, I guess
Ruby 37
Sure, the world of dating is opening up more and more. And who hasn’t been influenced by the Demi/Ashton phenomenon? But my experience, at least from online dating, is that most younger guys aren’t looking for a serious relationship with anyone. And many older men are the same. Most younger men who have contacted me online have been at least 20 years younger, just a bit too young, in my book, even though, yes, they are very cute and sweet. I’ve had little interest from 30-somethings, but I’m also over 45, which seems to be a cut-off point for many men. The 30-somethings are probably getting ready to start their own families. I’ve happily dated men around my age and up to 5-11 years younger, though.
I really feel that the younger a man is, the more open he is to dating an older woman, because he doesn’t have any issues about his own youth. But as men get older, midlife crisis takes over, and they want a younger woman who makes them feel young. Truth be told, the younger men I’ve dated make me feel younger as well, though I’ve met a few older men who have been quite youthful and attractive. Keep an open mind about every man you encounter, is what I’d advise.
Kaitlyn 38
I have been living apart from my husband for 18 months now
Honestly, AM, if you are still married and are living apart from your husband I think the FIRST thing you should be doing is evaluating whether you want to stay in your marriage or get a divorce. If you want to find a relationship with another man it is only fair to that person that you are fully OUT of your marriage.
Until you do that, you really are NOT available for anything more than a “fling”. Sorry if that’s blunt…but you are soliciting advice on dating and finding more than a “fling” but you state that you are living apart from your HUSBAND which indicates that you are not fully available for ANY other man, regardless of his age.
Speed 39
@AM
You can write me off as a typical “boring guy over 40” but what’s wrong with “sharing a Sunday latte for the next 40 years?” In my opinion, being an adult means recognizing life has a large degree of boredom and routine, interspersed with moments of something special.
Steve 40
Lucia #26 wrote
Although for some men it may just be about sex, I hear from “Cougar couples” all over the world who are in serious relationships and are very happy.
That doesn’t mean that it isn’t an exceptionally rare situation to the point where it might not be worth pursuing for a woman interested in finding a happy LTR while she can still walk unassisted.
If I go “all over the world” I can probably fill a convention hall of left handed black jewish lesbians who voted for Bush. That doesn’t mean that demographic is plentiful in the dating scene and that any left handed jewish lesbian has a realistic shot of finding someone just like herself for an LTR.
Steve 41
Karl, post #35. Be sure to blow some air on those smoking guns to cool them down
Dang!
Kathe 42
Here’s a tip: what’s good for the gander is good for the goose. Many middle-aged women don’t want to date men the same age or older because their perceptions of women have been frozen in time. Forget accomplishments, careers. or an exciting life — those guys will just see you as the woman who should defer to him and pick his socks off the floor.
I’ve dated men more than 10 years younger than myself — didn’t last but neither did the other relationships with men in the same age bracket. (And that’s because I wasn’t looking long-term.) EMK is looking at the players? OK, but don’t assume older women want the players either.
The last time I said I wanted to date younger men, one prospective dating advisor said, “Oh, no, here we go again.” That’s support we can all do without.
SS 43
@Speed 39:
I guess I’m a boring old woman at age 33, but I’d like nothing better to have a latte with my husband every Sunday morning for the next 40 years! That doesn’t mean we won’t enjoy physical activities as well, but if I’ve learned anything in my young, but growing older age, it’s that the little, quiet and tender moments like sharing a cup of coffee or watching the sunrise together are some of the most treasured and poignant parts of a committed relationship. Why does everything always have to be about being on the go or seeing how many activities one can do, or always having energy to burn? Whatever happened to quiet, contemplative moments where all a person has is the company of another… and enjoying each other is much more valuable than always having some activity to serve as a distraction or as a reason to spend time together?
@Andrea 11
I can relate to this. I was one of those people who was often told how young I looked, how I had so much energy, how I didn’t seem to be the age that I was, etc… and it started to go to my head. I’d dress like a 19-21 year old, spend time with them and revel in a second decade of being a 20-something.
Until one day, I looked around and noticed that I was completely different than those I deemed to be my peers — in mentality and probably in looks too. Whether I looked younger in age or not, I WAS a 30-something. I wasn’t fooling anyone with the Aeropostale and Hollister gear. My bearing and demeanor came off much differently and I started to feel that I stood out like a sore thumb, like the woman that was trying too hard.
I finally cleaned out my closet and dumped all of the junior-sized clothing, bought a more mature (but still fashionable) wardrobe and started spending time with my true peer group… and stopped looking for younger men, especially considering that I wanted a commitment.
Sometimes, it’s important for us to do some self-evaluation and embrace our age (whatever it might be). We can look great for our age and have a lot of energy for someone our age, but we ARE the product of the number of years we’ve spent on this earth. Acting like we aren’t is simply denial.
AM 44
Glad to see I’ve been able to entertain here..!
Karl..odd how you see an open discussion about sex as an elephant in the room..
Steve I would prefer a man who is not a performer. I happen love geeky nerds for instance, such a relief from talking ‘show’ shop.
Thanks all for your advice about my online profile but I don’t recall sharing it on this site so.. In fact there is no mention of fitness, or elephants and I have no limits on age.
As a postscript, I would love to hear the European version of this conversation..
Bren 45
Was married a man 8 years younger… Felt like a story book romance… Thought it was the most wonderful relationship in the world… for 12 years…
Then he reached his mid life crisis phase and decided he just fell out of love… Yep…thinks I’m still beautiful…just not in love anymore…. Now 48 and 56….He’s riding off into the sunset with his bit younger biker chick girlfriend… and shopping at the teen clothing stores….
Never really knew he’d possibly have a midlife crisis…or I might have been a bit more careful….
Yep.. I want a man that is somewhere near my age….. give or take a few years…
Luxe 46
Steve.. LOL.. you crack me up!
It kinda sounds like AM is just chasing something that is new and exciting. And that happens to be the younger guys right now. And the way she writes, even though she says she wants a serious relationship, it doesn’t sound like it at the same time.
Seriously, even a younger guy will get into a “routine” once he’s been in a LTR. He may not want to drink lattes every sunday for the next 40 years, but it could be that he just wants to watch [insert sports programming] while drinking beer every sunday for X years. You get the idea. It’s all the same to me.
JB 47
@Karl R #35 “you’re not legally ready for that kind of relationship until you’re divorced”
Karl is right.I love dating separated women because they can’t ask anything from me.You know why? THEY’RE STILL MARRIED !!! I would laugh if any one of them regardless of their age and energy level asked me anything about a deep/serious relationship.I would tell them and in fact have said these exact words,”get out of the one you’re in first and take some time to figure out who the “single” you is and what she needs and wants and then worry about it.
I can’t speak for every man but normally men look at the whole “cougar” thing as something to have fun with occasionally as I have but rarely(except for BTTW) to be a long term thing.Bottom line is it’s hard enough to have and keep a serious relationship going with someone your own age let alone a man who’s 10-15 yrs younger.
Andrea 48
Goodness, Americans have so many ideas that Europe is some kind of magical utopia where our uptight American rules don’t apply. I think that men are men, and I can’t think of any culture where men are choosing older mates MORE than they choose mates their own age or younger.
Haven’t lived in Europe but have several friends and college classmates who are married to Europeans (Brits, Germans, Swedes, French), and guess what? All of those guys are the same ages as my friends. Same is true of my European classmates from grad school. I think you can find a nice young European fling, but I think men Europe still gravitate towards youth.
You know, I love the British expression for cougar. A British bus driver said that they say “Twas mutton done up like lamb.” I said, “do you mean, like Madonna?” And he made a face.
Who started the rumor that the Mrs. Robinson craze had taken hold of the Continent? I’ve spent a lot of time in Europe and I didn’t exactly see a lot of older women with their young boyfriends. That sounds like the plot of a Nancy Meyers film
I hope some Europeans do chime in, but you know, they like youth and beauty just like we do, and I’ve noticed that several of the older French actresses have subjected themselves to some really awful plastic surgery in order to cling to their youth (it hasn’t worked). Plus, several high profile European actors who were with older women ended up leaving them for younger women.
Clearly, there is a lot to figure out…good luck in your search.
Karl R 49
AM said: (#44)
“Karl..odd how you see an open discussion about sex as an elephant in the room..”
It’s odd that you thought sex was the “elephant” I was refering to.
You claim that you want “something deep and long-lasting,” but you’re not available for that kind of relationship due to your marital status. If a long-term relationship was truly a priority, you’d be in a rush to get divorced in order to facilitate that goal.
If a man (or woman) is searching for a long-term relationship online, he sets his search filters to exclude people who are “separated.”
You claim to want “a passionate relationship of integrity” and to “want more than the cougar/toy boy experience.” But these seem to be the main qualities you’re looking for:
1. Hot
2. Energetic
3. Passionate
4. Successful
Combine that with the adjectives you use to describe yourself, and it looks like you’re advertising for a fling, not an enduring relationship.
If you want a relationship with integrity (or if you just want a relationship that will last), you might want to start with the traits associated with that goal: honesty, understanding, patience, loyalty, etc.
AM said: (#44)
“As a postscript, I would love to hear the European version of this conversation..”
Are you hoping to find someone who will validate your position?
I’m guessing most Europeans know some men over the age of 40 who are attractive, energetic and enthusiastic … so you’re unlikely to find a lot of validation there.
I suspect most would be confused by your need to justify your attraction to younger men. You’re attracted to people younger than you. Who isn’t? There’s no need to invent some reason that men close to your age are unsuitable just to rationalize that attraction.
As I said earlier, my girlfriend is 16 years older than me. I don’t have anything against a younger man dating an older woman.
But my girlfriend didn’t limit herself to younger men, and I didn’t limit myself to older women. We were both looking for the best partner we could find.
AM asked: (#18)
“I’m still hoping that the ‘right’ man will show up…which gets back to my original question..where is he?”
I’m looking for the car that will make me happy. What kind should I buy?
There’s no way to answer my question. Happiness doesn’t come from cars.
You want to know where to find the “right man,” but you don’t want to hear the answer. You could find a young, hot, beautiful, energetic, enthusiastic and successful man, and he’ll still probably be the wrong man. None of those traits matter if it turns out that he’s not trustworthy, or mean, or selfish.
Figure out which traits are absolutely essential. Search for those. If the right man turns out to be young and hot, that’s a bonus.
Steve 50
Alright. I’m starting a club for us latte and movie fans. Our first meeting is this Sunday. Naysayers can stay home
Gabrielle 51
I live in a college town–I can’t pretend I pass for 30 any more (which does make me a little sad) but so what? I’m attractive, interesting, exciting, yadda, yadda and it has never mattered in the long run. If a guy finds you interesting, he’ll make the effort to get and keep your attention. If he tires of you, or himself, or the life you have with him, he’ll bail.
You don’t have control over that.
Regardless of how great I am, I’m still 46, twice divorced and have two kids–one of whom is under 10. He won’t be leaving home any time soon. It changes the playing field.
I prefer guys around my age, but I haven’t dated a guy less than 5 years my junior since I was in my mid-30′s. Why? They ask me out. They don’t hang back, pretending to be cool. Maybe it’s a generational thing. GenX guys never have seemed too interested in behaving like adults, but maybe that’s just my experience.
There are distinct issues with dating someone 10 years younger though. There can be a real disconnect sometimes. I decided to try online dating about 6 months ago, hoping to meet someone my age.
I’ll be honest. At this point, I’m doing it purely to stay in practice. If someone writes to me, I’ll reply. Why not? It doesn’t mean anything. These guys aren’t bothering to find out who I am–they’re writing to whatever my picture represents for them.
It doesn’t bode well for anything serious but whatever.
I don’t think it’s that different in real life, there’s just more of it online.
It’s frustrating, but it’s not worth getting worked up about.
K'Mama 52
Karl,
I think you and AM should get a room and work your tensions out there.
Evan,
After reading your blog for a couple of months now, Evan – which I have thoroughly enjoyed – this topic hit a nerve.
I truly appreciate all that you have written and the time you have taken to give sage and experiential advice. I have actually been listening to you off and on for a few years and may I say that marriage has done you and your message well. Congratulations on your beautiful wife and your burgeoning family. I am especially impressed that you (unlike many of your male dating-guru contemporaries) have taken your own advice and actually gotten married. Once I learned that, you permanently had my ear.
In this instance with AM, I do understand your advice, but find it intensely logical and brusque. I can sense your weariness borne from dealing with women with “ridiculous” expectations and desires. Yet, we all know that love/romance/even hookups aren’t logical by any stretch of the imagination.
As I find myself in a May-December romance, (he is 15 years younger – yikes!), this type of relationship, while not ideal if having children are the consideration, is becoming more and more common and the landscape of dating is rapidly changing. And thank god, as this has opened up my dating pool. Age differences, racial differences, educational/class differences, hotness/vs. plain – the paradigm shift is occurring as we speak. The old paradigm (think JFK/Jackie O) of hot blond boy with Harvard law degree in early 30s, meets and marries, nice girl of equal hotness but not too smart, but good family values and ready to pop out 2.5 blond kids for him in say 5 years but before she’s 35 – is rapidly shrinking. What’s left? Each and everyone of us on this post thread – the so-called exceptions. (honestly, in my opinion the blond-guy/girl scenario is what is the exception)
So while I know from reading many of your posts Evan, that you deal in “just -the-facts-ma’am” type statistics and suggest that women in their 40s (i hit 40 this year) should embrace the fact that to the rest of the world, this diminishes our sale-ability in the open market, in my world – this just ain’t so. And isn’t that the only world that counts? I’ve done most of my spiritual work and growth here-to-date in my thirties and this growth has attracted a whole range of type of men…. which leads me to my main and final point and then I’ll shut up.
I feel that AM has every human right to want what she wants and want it with gusto. Actually it doesn’t even matter who she wants. A rampant theme throughout this comment thread and some of the others is an incessant attention to the absurd comparison of who’s hot, who’s not, men in their senior years wanting young hot childbearing chicks or vice versa, blah blah blah. On the logical surface this is truly relevant. In reality – as you have demonstrated in your own life, Evan – it’s not. We all know as we get older this (race, age, income status, intelligence quotient) matters less and less and the person’s energy and spirit matter more and more. Beating any woman over the head with stats on just how unlikely it is that she would get what she wants is, imho, a futile act. The heart wants what it thinks it wants.
As a subscriber to Abraham-Hicks and their understanding of the laws of the universe (please forgive me if you neither know, follow nor care about Ab-hicks), it seems appropriate to say that perhaps AM’s goal before finding the amazing 30 year old that meets her sexual and emotional needs, is to get aligned. You know like, get a divorce and finalize that energetic relationship, take a breath, get quiet… ect. And then take action. So many of the authors of the questions you post are from women who are clearly trying to take action, [jump online, run around looking, working out, beating the drum about how energetic/hot/youthful they are] before they even ready for a healthy relationship. What jumps out at me, as I read the posts and try to absorb Evan’s wit and advice and the collective wisdom from readers, is that these women probably could benefit from doing some major inner work. Then look for similar energetic qualities to satisfy them.
I started doing that this year and low and behold, what showed up, as usual, surprised me in the package of a 50 year old soul wrapped up in a 25 year old man’s body. And one of the healthiest/honest/sweetest relationships I’ve had to date. I don’t beat the drum of specifics per se anymore. I just focus on alignment. Who knows where it this will lead, – I have you Evan to thank for helping me to understand the logical male psyche and be able to relax into it and let it bloom organically. But I wouldn’t have gotten to this place had I internalized the logical statistics about age/race/class and accepted this imagined second class status as a woman of a certain age.
AM – I send you positivity and honestly believe you will attract to you what you are spiritually. Work on that and the rest will come and I’m sure you’ll get your match.
Andrea 53
I’d love to hear from the over 45 set what they “do” that qualifies them as “not acting” their age? Is it being active? Not that rare. Is it using gadgets? Are you on Facebook ? Do you Tweet? Is Jay-Z on your Ipod? I just think that a lot of people who are older who think that they are young and hip are really mistaken, and the results are really awkward. (as I mentioned, watch the Cougar Den skit on SNL). Even if you aren’t like your friends, it doesn’t meant that there aren’t loads of people like you, and how someone acts at any given age has SO much to do with their circumstances (are you married or single, do you have kids, and if so, how old are they). Maybe it’s just the self-selecting group of people who blog here, but do you realize how much of a cliche it is that you claim to be so youthful at 45?
Because I also wonder, what the heck do they think that 30 year olds do? Trust me, you might not like it. I think Sunday afternoon lattes sounds great.
I sometimes wonder if some older women who married young get divorced and are ready to party(whereas if you got to party through your 20′s and beyond you are over it). I’m not sure if someone who is 50 got married closer to 20, whereas now, depending on your region, you could find plenty of never marrieds in their 30′s (esp. true in big cities, maybe less so in other places). It also maybe depends on your set, because of course, people who aren’t going to college are perhaps getting married young, but if you are going to college, grad school, professional school, post-docs, etc., a lot of people will be really intensely focused on school and career in their 20′s.
I would say caveat emptor. You have no idea how 30 year olds socialize, and you’ll find that it’s likely MUCH different than what 30 was like when you were that age, and no matter how young acting you think you are, I can guarantee that it’s not what you do to have fun.
So are you all just comparing your 48 to your parents or grandparents 48? B/c it’s all changed a LOT in the 20th and 21st centuries. I can safely say that my mom at 48 and my grandma at 48 were completely different creatures, so if that is your comparison, you are out of touch with what 48 is. You probably weren’t the same as your forebears were at 40, 30, 20, etc. either.
I just don’t want to lose touch with reality and assume that me being me makes me special, young, or hip as I get older. I just don’t see how it would qualify as “not acting my age.”
And just to be clear, I roll my eyes just as much at 21 year olds who think that they are too mature for people their own age either (very typical of exceptionally bright young people).
I just think that until you are X years old, you don’t have any idea what you will be like, and you are a horrible judge of what being X years old is.
Love this post topic, but I do think that letter writer wanted validation and not the truth since the reply did tell her the truth and also pointed out that her truth is the same that it would be if she was a man (and you could infer the answer with several other older topics).
Denise 54
#50 Steve
I’m there…not too early I hope though! Thanks for offering to make us all feel included
Selena 55
@ Steve #50
I’m in.
Steve 56
Andrea 53
(as I mentioned, watch the Cougar Den skit on SNL).
Since you posted about it twice I decided to watch it:
http://tinyurl.com/anpwlt
The skit reminded of the way older men used to be mocked for chasing women much younger than they were ( gut, toupee that flops off at odd moments, etc ).
Goldie 57
#53 Andrea: “I’d love to hear from the over 45 set what they “do” that qualifies them as “not acting” their age?”
Not exactly the over-45 set, but to me that would mean not being afraid to learn and try new things, and not getting stuck in a rut. Nothing wrong with Two and a Half Men reruns every evening after work, a latte every Sunday morning, vacation at your favorite all-inclusive resort every winter… except that, after some years of this, the two of you have nothing to talk about anymore and bore each other to tears. And that’s not fair to us or our partners. We’re all the proverbial smart/strong/successful people here, capable of having more interesting lives than that.
Denise 58
#53 Andrea: “I’d love to hear from the over 45 set what they “do” that qualifies them as “not acting” their age?”
For women, I think not acting their age is wearing clothes, jewelry, makeup, hair that a 20 year old would wear, for example. Going out and getting a body full of tattoos at 45. Consistently going out at 11 pm, walking into clubs with the 21 year olds. Getting involved in or tolerating the drama of younger people. Constantly saying how young you look and act, how young men are always fawning over you, swinging your long hair (which more than likely are extensions). Someone not being able to handle their liquor or sleeping around indiscriminately.
This is MUCH different than exploring different activities, making new friends, trying new things like skydiving, going back to school, understanding and using technology. That’s just living life!
Shouraku 59
The problem with chasing 30 year old men is that they have the ability to attract hot, energetic, successful, fun, 30 year old women.
From your writing you seem to be a very fun person, but from the 30 year old mans perspective, why would he want to start a LTR with a fun 50 year old woman when he could easily attract a 30 year old version of you?
There are many hot, energetic, successful, younger women ripe for the picking for a quality 30 year old man. That is why you are having issues, not because you are not amazing, but because there are tons of younger versions of you who are also looking for LTR with the same quality men.
Of course, they are not you, and thus do not have the same experience and wisdom that you do. However, getting them to stay around long enough to stop seeing you as a novelty and realize this is an issue. If they are starting out with the mindset that a LTR with you is not a possibility (from their end), then it is very difficult to convince them to see you as something other then a novelty later on down the road.
My heart goes out to you, you seem like an amazing woman, but that does not change the nature of the situation that you are in.
Ellen 60
Agree with Diana and K’Mama- Men my age (50′s) are often sexist, tired, emotionally damaged and/or controlling after a lifetime of learning how to manipulate women frankly (Diana’s point); some younger men really DO prefer older women and aren’t just looking for easy, hot sex (K.Mama’s point).
I am 57, look 45 on a good day (plastic surgery, a lifetime of exercise etc.) told all the time by young and old I’m beautiful, yada, yada, yada, so suddenly about a year ago fell into dating handsome younger, much younger actually, and haven’t looked back yet Evan. Now, I’m no fool and I know there is no future with most of these men (3 so far), but I find their youth, honesty, lack of emotional baggage, their RESPECT (they respect me and my lifelong accomplishments in a way no man my age does), the incredible hot sex, pretty damn thrilling and addictive to tell you the truth so I doubt I look for that 5% in my age range who can keep up with me looks-wise, energy-wise. It’s not the older man’s fault really- they haven’t spent a lifetime nurturing their looks the way woman do, like I did….
But recently I decided I was ready for an ongoing real relationship so I am back talking to a guy I met at a conference a year ago who is closer to my age. I might add he is still about 7 years younger, but he looks my age ’cause I think he used to drink a lot and works 60+ weeks. But his character/gravitas, our potential emotional connection (wish me luck!) keep drawing me in. He is not good looking btw, but again, I sense we could have something really meaningful long-term.
I just discovered your site today, I did have a much younger man “disappear” on me last month (purely online- never met!) so may order your online book. I am probably scary successful, intelligent, too intelligent for most guys probably (20 years schooling) (I’m learning- new to me having been married most of my life) so need this info asap! You are doing a great job getting the word out on how to behave around a man and us women do appreciate it. Btw, my Dad was military, I have two much older brothers, but STILL don’t understand men completely. But I’ve made enormous headway over the past two years and feel now I “get” them pretty much. It’s all about unconditional love, which is a spiritual goal of mine anyway. Everyone Happy New Year! Ellen in SC
Ruby 61
One of the reasons for the shift in dating demographics is directly related to the fact that people are dating later and later in life. Our past experiences give us a chance to see that what we wanted – or didn’t want – at 22 is different from what we want/need at 52. Most people of my parents’ generation got married fairly young and stayed married, happy or not. There weren’t legions of newly single or never married middle-aged folks out there as is happening today. As K’Mama said, the paradigm is shifting.
Selena 62
There is no guarantee of how long a relationship will last. Any. And there is no specific place to meet men interested in serious relationships with significantly older women. All you can do AM is put yourself out there, with realistic expectations, and see what happens.
Like some others though, I am rather mystified as to why you want another serious relationship when you are still married to someone. Actually going through with a divorce would seem to be your logical first step – in any direction.
Ms. Trace 63
Evan,
I’ve been following your blog and your answers are progressively getting more blunt and harsh. As a dating coach for older women who can afford one, you probably deal with a large than average share of people who constantly overate themselves- hence their need for a coach in the first place. Your tag line should be: Realistic Advice for Delusional, Aging Women. I’m still in the younger-ish age bracket ( early 30′s); reading about the issues women their 40′s face is terrifying and makes me want to “settle” for the next half decent guy who comes along. Your blog should be must-reading for any woman in her 20′s and early 30′s who wants to find a quality guy. Yes, paradigms are shifting and quantum leaps in plastic surgery are being made, but why play the dating lottery this way, when the odds are you’ll lose? No matter how young and energetic people say they look, I’m sure that should any of us die and our bodies have to be identified by strangers, our ages would be pegged correctly. Ever notice how we never see posters of missing people saying they are 48, but look 38? We need their real ages, so we can properly identify them. Evan, your job is not an enviable one, as you are probably the only person that these women talk to who tell them the truth. But, hey that’s why you get paid the big buck
Andrea 64
I’m starting to wish we had avatars since so many people are convinced that they look 10-20 years younger than their real age…such a cliche at this point, and I’m not sure why so many people have it in their posts and their online profiles. It’s kind of faulty reasoning on both ends, since the person claiming it sounds narcissistic, and if you ask someone much younger than you, they only know that you are older and are imagining what +20 or +30 looks like.
I mean, it would seem like arguing the older is so much better should be because it is, not because you’ve somehow played a trick on everyone’s eyes.
It’s still funny how many of the cougars interpret Evan’s advice as telling AM that she can’t have or shouldn’t want a younger man. He never said that. He only told her that the number of men who are younger who’ll want a real relationship with her is significantly lower than it would be if she was still 25 or 30(b/c they can find tons of the younger versions of her instead).
She seemed shocked that being older and hot wasn’t enough to make her a hot commodity to have her pick of younger men. So writing in to tell us about your hot 21 year old boyfriend and all of the pool boys and valets that hit on you doesn’t disprove that. It just means that if you were 25, there would be about 4x as many of them.
Jadafisk 65
That’s the thing though… I’m confused. As a 25 year old woman, if 30 year old men don’t want to settle down with anyone due to wild oats, career considerations, etc, and men younger than that don’t want to for the same reasons, either, then what under 40 age range of man typically wants to settle down, and with whom?
Also, women in the LW’s age range often have a strong marked preference for men in their own age range, who are less interested in dating them. This has been evinced by many. But she’s looking at younger men, and that’s not conducive to LTRs and high desirability, either. So what’s the solution? Should middle-aged women who are looking for someone interested and willing to settle down be looking for men 10-15 years their senior, satisfying those men’s desires for a younger mate and becoming a nuisance to those men’s single age peers? Or should they largely abandon whatever age preferences they have because from a supply demand scenario, they’re at the mercy of the market?
Selena 66
Re:#63
Many people think (like to believe) they look 10 years younger than their age. And they may look a bit younger than some of their peers. But they definetly do not look 10 years younger to someone who actually IS 10 years younger.
This is easy to test: No matter how good someone looks, how many times have you mistaken someone 10 years OLDER than yourself to be your own age? Think about it.
Steve 67
The quickest way for someone to get a perspective on how young they look is to take a walk through a college campus. A guaranteed shocker.
Star 68
I think we are all more likely to have a better relationship with someone who is closest to our own age. Andrea pegged it by saying that the different generations socialize differently. What 30 year olds do is quite different to what 40 years old do and the differences are even more pronounced the older we get. The way each generation was raised, their thinking patterns, what they value, etc… is so entirely different. I am 39 and I realize this each time I meet someone my own age and we “click” so well because we grew up in the same “time”. It’s not like this with even the 30 year olds, and especially not AT ALL like that with 50 year old and above. 10 years is significant, not only generationally but each age group is at a life stage. And, I don’t care who you are…no matter how great of shape you claim to be in or plastic surgery you’ve had….your body has aged and it shows. Just look at Arnold Swartzenegger…once age hit him, no amount of fitness and exercise is going to change it. That’s the unfortunate truth, so accept it. Personally, I don’t want to have a serious relationship with anyone outside of my age group. The bond I’ve found with the men in my own age group is so profound that it’s worth holding out for (which truly isn’t that difficult).
Karl R 69
Andrea said: (#63)
“I’m starting to wish we had avatars”
If you’re curious, you can click the link in my name. That should give you some idea what I look like.
On the other hand, I never claim that I look young for my age. I let other people decide for themselves.
Andrea said: (#63)
“so many people are convinced that they look 10-20 years younger than their real age…”
Some of them are comparing themselves with their peers … and are selectively chosing the peers who look old for their age.
Others are listening to people who tell them they look young. However, they’re overlooking two things:
1. flattery (I know you want to look younger than you are)
2. people who are bad at judging ages
Finally, there’s a difference between looking 10 years younger and being 10 years younger. AM said, “I love guys who are around the 30 year old mark.” Men who are that age, not men who look that age.
A person can look young and can act immature, but that doesn’t change the age they are.
Jenny 70
Since you are so much better looking than the rest of other women in your age range, why won’t you prove it then? Instead of coming to this place and ask for approval like a kid asking her parents who should she date, go get someone much younger who is willing to commit to you.
Oh…. I guess you can’t/haven’t/not yet so far, then Evan’s point is well proven.
Bill 71
People love to give other people compliments because thats how we men and women flirt. Flirting is fun!!!!
Steve 72
Karl R 68
Andrea said: (#63)
“I’m starting to wish we had avatars”
If you’re curious, you can click the link in my name. That should give you some idea what I look like.
Karl, I had no idea you were a petite woman with curly hair in your early 30s. For some reason I always thought you were a guy
Karl R 73
Steve said: (#72)
“a petite woman with curly hair in your early 30s.”
My girlfriend will be flattered.
Selena 74
That was fun to watch Karl, thanks for telling us.
Ruby 75
Cute couple, cute girlfriend, Karl! Dare I say that she could pass for much younger?
Hadley Paige 76
Jadafisk @ 65 says “Should middle-aged women who are looking for someone interested and willing to settle down be looking for men 10-15 years their senior, satisfying those men’s desires for a younger mate and becoming a nuisance to those men’s single age peers?“
Jadafisk, I don’t get your suggestion that these women would become “a nuisance to those men’s single age peers” although it is very considerate of you to be concerned with annoying that guy’s friends. Could you explain that observation to me?
My short answer to your question is yes. If women want to attract & hold a man they must first attract a man. It is axiomatic that if broadly speaking the largest group of men who would be interested in a 40ish woman for a serious LTR are men 10-15 yrs older than her, then her greatest likelihood of achieving an LTR would be to focus her efforts in this group. (standard disclaimer here: yes, everyone is an individual, and yes, there are examples of women who have had success in finding an LTR outside of this statistic).
To use a fishing metaphor: it doesn’t matter what the fisherman want to catch, it matters what his lure is and where he drops it. If all he has is a bass lure he can only catch bass and only if he drops it where the bass are. The fact that he only likes to eat trout, and only wants to catch a trout is irrelevant to the facts on the ground. His realistic choices are: ( i) learn to like bass; or (ii) don’t eat fish. The 3rd choice of changing the bass’s mind about what lure he should like and why he should like it ain’t going to work.
Similarly, if for a 40ish woman, the only men who are presenting themselves for a LTR with her (note I said presenting themselves for an LTR rather than presenting themselves for a toss in the hay) are men 10+ yrs older than she, she must face the fact that that is what her lure looks like (once again, it doesn’t matter why). Her choices are the same as the fisherman’s above.
Vox 77
Everyone who claims they look 10-20 years younger should upload a picture to guessmyage.net and find out what the masses really think. I am tempted myself… but then again maybe I’m better off not knowing the truth! Then again, I don’t make claims about how I look.
Jadafisk 78
“Could you explain that option for me?”
I meant that they would become a nuisance to those men’s single female age peers who would actually prefer to date a 50-60 something year old man first and foremost. Also, how does a woman know if she’s being pursued for an LTR or a roll in the hay by those men, especially since a lot of single men in that age range would be divorcees with no interest in marrying again and/or staunch lifetime singles…
Dean Kaplan 79
Ouch! As hurtful as it sounds, Evan is right. I have acquaintances that are around 30 years of age that have flings with older women, they may even cheat on their younger partners with these older women, but I haven’t met ONE that seriously considered dating or leaving their mates to be with the older woman.
Older, attractive women are often fantasies for younger men, as they tend to be sexually experienced, and maybe even more importantly, they tend to have a lesser expectation for strings to be attached to the sex.
hunter 80
Beenthroughwars, he was 33 and you were 44???..you must be stunning drop dead gorgeous and/or own the U.S. Mint.
Helen 81
Karl R, you have got the MOVES! Whoa! And your girlfriend is lovely.
AM: I would agree with Kaitlyn above who says that you should first decide what you want to do with your husband who is not officially an ex. Would you ever consider getting back together with him? You need to make a decision on that, one way or the other, to clarify what you want NOW. It’s not fair to leave anyone dangling on the side (either your husband or any new guy with whom you have a relationship).
As far as energy level is concerned, it’s not the most important thing in a LTR/marriage. A husband is not supposed to fulfill all your needs. You can find outlets for your energy in ways that don’t include him, and both of you would be happier for it, because it brings new experiences into the marriage. You can’t do everything together, nor is it desirable to do so. I belong to an all-women’s book club and intend to join musical groups when the kids grow up a bit. Hubby has sports activities that don’t include me. It works out well.
Ruby 82
Hunter #80
People fall in love for all sorts of reasons. Looks, money, age aren’t the only factors.
hunter 83
Looks, money, age, aren’t the only important factors? Forgive me for being shallow…..please let me know about other factors “most” people consider…..
Karl R 84
hunter said: (#83)
“Looks, money, age, aren’t the only important factors? [...] please let me know about other factors ‘most’ people consider…”
Intelligence/education
Trustworthiness/loyalty/fidelity
Patient, kind, not jealous
Ability to compromise
Similar views on money (spending, saving, charity)
Similar views on family (particularly having/raising kids)
Willingness to tolerate pets (if either of you have them)
Ability to understand each other (do you “get” each other)
Similar attitudes towards sex (frequency/variety/etc.)
Similar sense of humor
Some similar interests (so you spend some spare time together)
That’s not an exhaustive list, but I would consider all of those more important than looks, age or money.
hunter said: (#83)
“Forgive me for being shallow…”
That would be another factor that most people would use to eliminate a potential partner.
Ruby 85
Karl #84
Great response!
Andrea 86
@Karl…hahahahahahaha.
Seriously @Hunter, are you in high school? Because just walking down the street you should see that not everyone is still tied to the idea of dating the homecoming queen or football/basketball team captain. As I’ve seen in blog posts here, online dating is great b/c it lets you meet people that you’d never meet, but also awful b/c it makes dating seem like a buffet where you can get as much as you want until you are full, esp. for men. Never mind how often your hands get smacked as you reach for the serving spoon.
And yeah, I see “odd” couples all of the time. Beauty/attractiveness/handsomeness are awesome that way. As much as everyone here will perhaps tow the line in regards to what is attractive or not(young is better than old, skinny is better than fat), everyone has a shot at love because we all want something different, and since it only takes just one, it’s silly to assume that the lady above has to look like Cindy Crawford to have a husband who is 10 years her junior.
Was just on a flight where I assumed that a couple were siblings b/c of the supposed “inequity” in their appearance. But of course, there is the fact that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and also all of the things that Karl just listed. And yes, it was the guy who was the tall, athletic looking, “attractive” one. The girl seemed to be his opposite in every way, and he was all over her. But I guess you’d assume that she must be rich or something.
Rob 87
What isn’t mentioned is the growth most people go through between early 30′s to mid 40′s. Even if you do find a younger someone to have a relationship with the chances of them staying the same over a twenty year period are almost nil. It happened to me.
I was 20, she was 35. 20 years later I was a totally different person…not due to anything more then the natural growth we all go through. True this can happen to anyone at any age but you are much more settled when you are in your mid-forties then when you are in your 20′ or 30′s. The young man you find today will be a very different middle aged man tomorrow.
By the way “she” is still a great person,we still have contact but I grew up and changed. As all people do.
C’est La Vie.
Joe 88
For this older woman, I’m going to tell her “Yes, there is hope” especially if she is successful. Men are always attracted to successful hot women. Now the question is whether a Younger Guy will marry her. A younger Guy will likely want children someday – so this can be accomplished either through adoption or surrogacy. But, the question for her is “Does she really want to get married again or LTR” because it seems to me in all these questions “Women just want Marriage or LTR” but why?!?
Why can’t at her older age, she can just have fun being a Single, Free Woman who can date several men, not just only one. A woman can be Single and Alone, but that is not a bad thing. Because Single Men have no problem being alone or dating several women.
Maryk 89
This is absurd! Sorry to say…but no relationship regardless of age is “guaranteed” to be LIFE LONG fulfilling. She can find it…My girlfriend did. The guy she is seeing 2 years now… is crazy about her. 17 year age gap. They are now planning their wedding. He was married to a young girl… couldn’t stand how they acted. Doesn’t want children, he had a vasectomy years ago, during his first marriage.
She was merely stating is it possible to find…the answer is YES!!!! You can have a serious relationship with someone younger.
I date who I want, regardless of what others say. I was married to a guy my age, for 8 years. The most miserable years of my life. I dated someone my age for 6 years… fricken.. stupid waste of time. I dated a guy 21 when I was 31, best time of my life..and never will forget it. I broke up with him, had a stupid notion that I should be with someone my own age. That’s how I ended up with the 2 LOSERS. If you like a guy..forget about what others will think! Who gives a hoot! I am so tired of people telling other people whats best for them!
I am currently dating someone who is 33, he was married to a woman for 10 years..who was 10 years older than he was. He likes older women, he has his child..doesn’t care if he has more. He is respectful, gorgeous, and fun! Life is short… do what you want!
happilymarried 90
I found a youngin’ 10 years younger and we are married. He pursued me and he asked me to marry him. He knew I was a little older he said, but he didn’t suspect there was almost 11 years between us.
I am NOT a cougar and was NOT looking specifically for a man younger than me. I was on dating sites looking for men my age and older and I got a lot of responses because I really DID look 10 – 15 years younger than my age.
I always had a rule: no more than 10 years either way. That’s pretty much your age group for lack of a better word. No woman or man in my opinion should go looking for people more than 15 years older. That’s just not realistic and there will be issues. My husband and I look roughly the same age and no one questions us. If he was in his 20s that would be a problem.
In dating I would say its important to be flexible and keep your options open. Be the type of woman you would want to date, if that makes sense, and you will attract the type of person you SHOULD be dating. That’s how you get something beautiful. Off the bat being a bitchy, picky, ageist is not the way to approach finding a relationship. There are more important things to consider like character.
All I ever asked of a man is that he be physically attractive to me, emotionally stable, kind, sense of humor, intelligent and have gainful employment and a plan for his life, a passion. I never had a list of how he should look, what color he should be, what particular age beyond he should be of my generation within 10 years of my age – either older or younger. And that’s who I got!
m 91
I like happilymarried’s approach^^. Given the fact that it’s been annotated at least three times on this board alone, I’m not sure why what AM is looking for keeps being repeat-branded as some unlocatable needle-in-haystack.
elle 92
I have the same problem as AM: younger men leave me when I tell them how old am I, men my age don’t want me, and older men do but I don’t want them… I understand that what you, Evan, say is the cold truth and the way of the world, but I have a question: ok, maybe I should “settle” for a nice man with a heart of gold with great husband potential, but what man on Earth will want to stay with woman that doesn’t attracted to him physically? He’ll leave me, too, eventually. I know from experience: I have two great boyfriends whom I wasn’t attracted to (there was some attraction in the beginning of the relationships, but too little of it, and then it evaporated), I just couldn’t force myself to sleep with them, and they left me saying “you don’t attracted to me”. Same result. So, what’s the point of compromising, “getting off the pedestal” ect?