I Have Tried Everything And Online Dating Is Still Not Working!
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Hi Evan. I read what I purchased from you faithfully and followed everything you said. I am a 36-year-old East Indian woman living in New York City. I would say that less than 10% of the people I write to write back to me. No one is really writing to me. I did EVERYTHING you said.
This is incredibly frustrating, especially after I checked your blog and saw that in a question you asked about response rate, ALL these women said that they got at least 50-60% response rate. I write to all kinds of men who are both younger and older, of all races,single and divorced, etc, etc. and I’ve been very, very careful to use all of your tips, and I read your blog faithfully. Why can’t I even get a response? I feel like I’m the ONE outlier who can’t make your tips work for me.
That’s my feedback–it’s not working for me. Is it because I’m Indian? Is it because I’m 36? Is it because I’m in New York City? If you can help, I’d appreciate it. –Mellie
Mellie,
First of all, I want to give you credit. You’re doing something.
If you’re writing to men who state that they’re looking for women 24-32, you can’t be too surprised that they’re not writing back.
Unlike most of the lookie-loos who read free blogs and newsletters and don’t try anything different, you put your money where your mouth is and invested in Finding the One Online. And now you want to know when the payoff is going to come.
I hear ya. And I don’t blame you in the least.
However, there are a few variables that might be affecting your experience…and I’d just like to point them out to you.
Since I don’t know you at all, I’m just going to be objective and theorize why you might not be doing as well as you’d like.
1. You’re not as attractive as you think.
In this famous OkCupid blog post, OkCupid takes great pains to illustrate that while women think that 80% of men are BELOW AVERAGE in attractiveness, men actually have a fair appraisal of women’s attractiveness. And while they still write disproportionately to the best looking 33% of women, normal women still get plenty of attention online. I’m not saying you’re unattractive – I have no idea what you look like – but if you were expecting men to be knocking down your door, take a look at the most attractive women in New York City between the ages of 25-35. I think you’ll see why you’re not getting as much attention.
2. Your age and race do matter.
Not to only have one source, but OkCupid also did a post on race. And what they observed is that yes, in fact, the percentage response that Indian women get from white men is less than they’ll get from men of all other races. It’s not my place to judge, but everyone’s entitled to his/her preferences. Write to more Indian men and your response rate should go up by 15%.
As far as age goes, I think it goes without saying that men prefer younger women if they want to start families. Check out the preferences of the men you’re writing to online instead of just writing to the men you prefer. If you’re writing to men who state that they’re looking for women 24-32, you can’t be too surprised that they’re not writing back. No more than a man who is 55 should be too surprised that you’re not replying to his query.
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106 Comments »Filed Under Dating, Online Dating
Christina 1
Evan’s advice is right on, as usual. I would just add: don’t be afraid to keep changing things up. Keep tweaking your profile and your search criteria. My husband was one of those unusual guys who always had a lot of women writing to him on online dating sites, but that was because he never stopped testing what did and didn’t work. When I met him, he was on the sixth or seventh version of his profile!
While the average person probably has a lot of potential matches out there, some of us are different in various ways and there will simply be fewer who find us appealing (this was definitely true for me). On the plus side, those who find us appealing, find us REALLY appealing.
He’s out there- you just might need more time and effort to find. him. Good luck!
Kimby 2
Guys are visual, they mostly just go by your pics. If you have great pics, then it almost doesn’t even matter what your profile says. So If you aren’t getting responses it’s mostly cuz they don’t like what they see. Put up some of your cutest pics, not old ones, but ones of you with a cute outfit, make-up and hair done. Update your profile description to something that’s a little playful and not too serious. Then take a tip from Evan’s last post and fudge your age by at least 3-5 years, but only if you can pass for younger, then do a search and click on the profiles of all the guys you are interested in so they see you in their ‘who viewed me’ section. Then just sit back and watch all the emails and winks that come thru from those same guys that ignored you.
Most guys are shallow when it comes to online dating, except for the most unattractive guys. So just play to their shallowness. And once you start getting lots of interest just quietly change your age back. They won’t even notice.
PGL 3
I, too, have done everything that Evan suggested from his ebooks. And I was having no luck on Match. So I tried another suggestion from Evan which was to try other dating websites. (I’ve tried four different ones over the years.) So far I am having a much better response rate on OkCupid and more messages evolving into conversations. I also noticed in LA that the type of guy on OkCupid is different from the ones on Match. They seem less rigid with their criteria too.
Angie 4
Also, depending which site you are on, you may be writing to inactive members. Match.com was notorious for having tons of profiles that belonged to individuals who haven’t signed on in months.
I would check the last log-in date as well, before sending out new messages. If it’s more than a few days, he may not be using his account anymore.
Sayanta 5
Evan I SWEAR I didn’t write this letter – holy s-t this is frightening…
Sayanta 6
Oh Mellie, sweetie I hear you – I’m 33 though. Here’s what I think- aside from the profile tweaking it’s just timing. Most of the men who’ve interacted with me online have been Indian or white- my exp has been mixed and I’ve had a LOT of lows with recent highs. This weekend I had a great date with a gorgeous dude who happened to be white- he contacted me first. I’ve contacted non- Indian men before with no luck. Indian men have contacted me and Ive realized they were only looking for pen pals. It’s a mixed bag.
But like I said there have been a LOT of lows- I do find though that men on OK Cupid are more willing to date different ethnicities. Match men say ‘no pref’ when it comes to race, but they could be writing that bc they don’t want to sound racist.
I have noticed though, whenever I make my profile as humorous as possible my response rate goes up. Have you tried that? Also, some men just assume we Indian women just date our own so they don’t contact. I made it a point in my profile to state that i date men of all races, and I think that helped a bit.
Ann 7
Sayanata@5: I did wonder if it were you, too. Ha! I work with lots of Indians and have many friends from India. One guy I work with very closely met his wife through a site specifically for Indian dating (she’s American-born, he’s from India). He’s very tall and handsome.
I think Indian women are incredibly beautiful, so I find it surprising that more non-Indian men aren’t responding. That said, you don’t want a fetishy kind of guy.
Sayanta 8
I don’t buy that about match-most of the time if I don’t get a response I’ll see that the guy has looked at my profile, which means he’s a member. Also, you can tell which members are inactive bc their pics have a grayish haze over them. Most don’t have that haze ( I picked up this tidbit at another blog)
Jackie Holness 9
I guess you don’t want an arranged marriage…I’m not trying to be funny, but since that is very much a cultural thing for India…I thought I would throw that out there…
Sayanta 10
I’ve read that ok Cupid article before- just looked at it again. Black and Asian men seem to be the most responsive- white males apparently are the least. I have noticed that on ok Cupid when you click on a typical attractive educated white dude’s profile there will be a caption that says “responds very selectively.” although…I guess it says that on my profile too lol
But I guess if you’re genuinely looking for lots of responses the best thing into forget about white dudes completely (since they don’t respond to anyone apparently) and stick with men of color
Shaswata P 11
Meghna, you are an Indian and you dont know about Shaadi dotcom and BharatMatrimony dotcom????
Those are like cultural cornerstones among Indians…Quite a few of my cousin sisters got married through those sites…
Best of luck and start searching in the right places
Sayanta 12
I’ve been on those Shaswata- this is the thing, being a writer and voracious reader, language is very important to me. And most of those guys can barely write an English sentence, which is weird since most are professionals working in this country. They write emails like they’re texting, and so many have haircuts from 1983 it’s embarrassing.
And I’m an American born and raised liberal woman who loves the Stones and has had mulberry hair in the past (college past though)I think, from reading her email, it seems that the poster is a little like me. A lot of the men on those two sites are very conservative. It funny, but even my cousins from India have told me, that the way my personality is, I’m better of marrying someone raised in the West as well.
Shaswata P 13
I meant Indian men who have been born and brought up in the US/Canada? AFAIK They also tend to register for the aforementioned sites…but I guess those sites pigeonhole you a lot into a corner regarding what you want in terms of height, earning capacity, profession, skin colour, mother tongue, caste, religion and what not? (father’s occupation ..LOL)
and speaking about young , just out of college professional Indians who have migrated to the West (almost invariably engineers) ,most of us have not got a clue about attracting girls as huge part of our twenty something years were spent slaying hundreds of thousands of other guys out of competition so that we could edge into those prestigous colleges…..So most do remain clueless about women because of lack of interaction till mid twenties but I have seen a substantial few Indians who have become veritable charmers with women after coming over to the West……
I have no idea how second and third gen Indians in US interact among themselves when it comes to initiating relationships as I am in a country with very few Indians …I am guessing lack of numbers would pull them close together and which would in turn help the young ones forming romantic relationships when they turn adults??
Sayanta 14
Well it’s not as though I have anything against dating men from India (trust me, the Western born Indians are mostly on Match and OkCupid like moi). We just don’t have a lot in common- I understand what you’re saying about competition and school but my male cousins are all married, engineers, and not socially awkward. Most of dates I’ve have with men from India have been so painful because of the sheer level of their social awkwardness with women. And at 33, I’m afraid I don’t have the patience to deal with a grown man who has no idea how to interact with a woman.
Sayanta 15
Oh, sorry for the double post Evan, but another issue is that Indian men have very rigid age criteria, almost always 21-29 even if they’re over 30 themselves. The non-Indian men seem to be more lenient in that they’ll at least go up to 35
Dan 16
From a guy’s experience, the numbers are far worse. Online dating favors attractive women, and then women in general.
When I first started, I got about a 5 percent response rate: 5 replies for every 100 emails. Of those, maybe 1-2 led to a date. Over the years, the response rate has dropped. It is now at 1-2 percent, maybe less. This applies to all websites. So I need to contact over a thousand women to get to a date. At that point, I am no longer contacting women that really interest me. It is “spray and pray” and when I do get a date, I’m not really interested.
So I don’t see much hope, but still am on there, because there are only so many options in meeting people out there. I’m doing other things too.
My numbers seem pretty similar to other guys I know. If they are younger or much better looking, their percentages are better, but honestly, of those guys I know, I wouldn’t even have my sister date them. They are abysmal in ways which I will not get into here.
Flower White 17
I really suggest an interracial dating site. Best of luck to you.
Michael 18
When I read a woman’s complaint about getting no responses via online, my first thought is that she’s overweight. And I don’t mean a few pounds overweight.
There is absolutely no way that an average-looking woman should get only a minimal of attention on online dating sites. I have scoured enough profiles to know that even the ugly or fat women have the gall to outline a laundry list of dating expectations. This is because even fat or ugly women get lots of attention via online, and can therefore be picky.
K 19
I’m also an Indian woman and I could literally go out on a date every night of the week with guys who are mostly my type from online. Because that doesn’t really make me all that happy, dating a ton is hard, I try to be selective and go out when I’m a little more interested. So I’m not sure what the poster is doing. My cousin is even a little overweight (as in 20 lbs) and was complaining that no one responded to her. I reviewed her profile added more fun pictures and generally updated her profile to sound more fun and spunky (but all true). I.e. she wrote too much about her job and wrote shopping was her hobby (snooze and rarely will a man share that interest). Instead I highlighted some of her more guy friendly hobbies such as hiking and politics. Soon after she got a lot more contacts. Most guys who contact me write about things on my profile that they too like as in our favorite sports teams and snow sports. That’s just my two cents. Believe me I wish everyone I contacted responded. They don’t, but I still get enough. Just wish in person there was chemistry.
Sayanta 20
K- Interesting, I’m sure that’s been a problem with me- I just don’t have guy-friendly interests, so the guys who write me are usually the artsy types, and there are only so many of those. Sports and politics are not in my vocab.
And to all those men who insist that women who are fat don’t get attention, and women who aren’t do, well, I’m a size 2 and I’ve had major online lows. Also, two beautiful thin girlfriends who are on JDate never get responses to their e-mails. A pretty blond white woman who’s 30 was on Good Morning America a few months ago said she hasn’t had a date in five years. On one of Evan’s posts, a matchmaker commented in saying that she had two beautiful charming, nice clients in their 20s that no one showed interest in, and more average looking women got lots of interest. A woman I know from work is 75 pounds overweight, has a harelip (not to be mean, I’m just making an observation) just married a cute wall street guy she met online with the most gorgeous eyes I’ve ever seen.
Why am I mentioning these random things? I guess to prove that lifes sometimes very random and there’s not always an explanation for these things..
nathan 21
I haven’t had as much difficulty getting dates as Dan sounds like he has, but I do think it’s true that men have to put more work into sending e-mails and facing rejection than women do. However, I also think it’s important to consider a few issues that negatively impact both men and women doing online dating.
1. Older profiles tend to get less attention. There seems to be a few month window where you’re still one of the “new kids on the block,” and especially for anyone who has been online awhile, a source of potential interest solely because you aren’t the same old same old.
2. The older you are, the less attention you get. Especially if you don’t have any broad spectrum attraction characteristics – like wealth, power, or way above average looks.
3. Anyone who sincerely wants a committed, LTR and demonstrates that in their profile will get less attention because so many folks online either aren’t sure what they want, or are using online dating mostly for fun or casual purposes.
Sayanta 22
Also K- are you writing men of all races? Do you find non-Indian men respond less?
K 23
Hey Sayanta–I don’t write to men of all races as I’m not attracted to all races, but I do write to a lot of different races. I think I get the same if not more responses from non-Indian men. I will note that I don’t really look all too Indian as only about 1 of 10 people guess correctly. So the men who seek me out tend to like more exotic/latin looking types of women. As to what you said about not having male interests, I guess just try to highlight fun interests. My cousin was writing her profile in a way that would sound appealing to a woman.
Thanks for pointing out that it’s tough for a size 2. I have put on some pounds in the last few months and I was seriously starting to think that it was the cause of my bad dates.
Nicole 24
@Sayanta, while dating online might be skewed towards certain people, considering how many people who look all kinds of ways are married and dating, why are people always shocked that someone who is fat or less than perfect looking can find a quality mate? I see women that I don’t think are pretty, and some who are quite heavy with good-looking husbands who adore them. However, they are likely very pretty to the person who picks them. Of course many will insist it is impossible but yeah, we all have our own tastes.
I mean, I get that when it comes to window shopping for mates then it becomes all about the exterior, but reading this blog people are quick to think that they should be coupled up before the fatties and the uglies and can’t really fathom a world where being a size 0 or 2 or blond or whatever doesn’t make them the first pick for everyone.
The awesome thing about the world is that beauty is subjective, and just b/c you think someone is really ugly, and just b/c they have flaws doesn’t mean that in real life they won’t find a mate.
It’s just clear reading here how many people find certain traits to be untenable which is their right, but we just don’t all view things the same way, it’s easy to be myopic and assume that what you like regarding looks, size, race, etc. is what everyone likes.
That being said, lots of studies have shown that it’s much harder for WOC of certain races to get responses, even when contacting men of our own race. I mean, there are so many things that you’ve brought up about immigrant vs. non-immigrant, and for both Black and Indian women, colorism is an issue which non-minorities don’t face when contacting people of their own race, and which I’m frankly loathe to discuss with non-minorities.
@K, so much goes into you having bad dates than just what size jeans you wear. If you are having bad dates then you aren’t picking the people who are right for you.
Sayanta 25
Nathan- okay, there’s my other problem! Lol I’ve made it clear in my profile that I’m looking for an LTR
Sayanta 26
Nicole
I wasn’t trying to sound offensive, sorry if it came out that way. I was really responding to Michael’s post where he said thin pretty women have no trouble online or getting dates. It’s just completely false.
K 27
@Nicole… my comment about size wasn’t all that serious. I was just noting that it was nice to hear that even a size 2 woman has a hard time with dating. I go on a lot of dates and I know it’s just hard to find the right person. I’m working on getting to the size that makes me the most happy. When you aren’t there sometimes you start to wonder, that’s all.
Sayanta 28
K
You sound like you have a great personality, and I’m sure that’s playing a role in getting you dates. But not looking Indian can also be a help- even though I’m thin, long hair and legs, etc. I def look very ethnic. And I’m not even going to go into the whole standards of beauty being Europeanized etc, coz that’s just a whole book. Lol
Joe 29
@ Sayanta # 26:
OK, maybe it’s false that thin pretty women have NO trouble online or getting dates. But how much trouble do you think they have compared to regular guys?
Sayanta 30
Joe
Plenty- theres 200,000 more women than men in NYC
K 31
Sayanta–Thanks for the kind words! If it’s any consolation, my good friend is Indian, very thin and tall and looks extremely ethnic. When she was single (up until this year) she often got a ton more attention from all guys. So there is hope for all of us:). I’m sure her huge smile and laugh went a long way.
Goldie 32
@ Angie #4 “Also, depending which site you are on, you may be writing to inactive members. Match.com was notorious for having tons of profiles that belonged to individuals who haven’t signed on in months.”
I can confirm this now. About two months ago, I canceled my Match account to be exclusive with someone. Got a confirmation number, good-bye email from Match, the works. They didn’t charge anything to my credit card, so I thought my account was no longer on Match. Yesterday, two people texted me asking whether “things didn’t work out with the guy”. Turns out, both of them saw my profile on Match, but wait it gets better! One of these two had a link to my profile emailed to him in a list of his daily matches. So, yeah, I am now one of these individuals. Yesterday, I followed instructions from their customer service to get on the site, uncheck every email option, and cancel the account again, hope it works better this time around! Very embarrassing! Apparently I’d been emailed and favorited by a number of people in the last two months. Awkward!
Saint Stephen 33
Is the OP only emailing the successful, educated, gorgeous looking, 6 2″ tall guys who owns profiles that looks like they were written by William Shakespeare? I’ve observed a particular trend online, that most men and women will take a shot at those (members of the opposite sex) that are way out of their league in real life- without even noticing it.
My suggestions is that she opens up search criteria to include the 5 2″ and 5 3″ guys, and she should also email tons of guys she would ordinarily consider unattractive and watch if they will grow on her. She needs to be more open minded and less judgmental. I believe if she tries this suggestions her response rate might escalate to 90% or even more than she can handle.
As an aside; it has also been my observation/experience that women (and men) who are more open minded and less picky are often the ones who end up getting the quality (smart, tall, cute, successful) men/women.
mellie charnalia 34
Thanks for the feedback guys–Mellie’s my nickname…Anyways, there’s some weird stuff between Indian men and women…some are very traditional and want some “perfect” match with no flaws, or are extremely anti-Indian. I had completely crazy and horrifying experiences on the indian only websites, so I’m branching out. I’m thin and was attractive enough to get a lot of attention online dating when I was younger…so it might be the age thing (if we’re talking about totally superficial stuff–and I could pass for my 20s, and no, I’m not just saying that). And yeah, I have a ton of “guy” interests and watch shows that are considered to be men-friendly–and I don’t talk very much about my career at all. But, I never considered that someone might assume I wouldn’t want to date non-Indian men. I’ll try some different pictures and to keep revising my profile. I can’t control the other stuff people make up in their heads about what I must be like.
Sayanta 35
Mellie
Glad you commented! Like I wrote before, I honestly think its just random stuff. Guys dismiss girls for the most superficial s-t it’s better not to think about it. It sounds like we’ve had similar experiences, though I’m sorry for the experience you’re having, I hope I don’t sound selfish in saying I’m glad I’m not alone
mellie charnalia 36
yes, to Saint Stephen…I have opened it up for shorter men—and yes, I’m emailing tons of people and honestly am not even paying that much attention to what they look like–I don’t care about height, weight, money, religion, race, education level, class background, or writing a perfect profile. Trust me when I say I’m casting a very, very wide net and constantly asking myself if I’m being judgmental in any way. And I’m writing to people in their 40s as well, not just in their 30s. There are some things I won’t compromise on: like when someone writes in their profile that they’re looking for casual sex,–but these are bare minimum things, guys….. It’s hard not to feel like some hideous ogre…..yes, I get the reality that I’m 36 and not white in the crazy dating world that is NYC, but jeez…..
Margaret 37
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just look at John Lennon and Yoko Ono. John, as a Beatle, could arguably have had his choice of supermodels, etc. Yet, he fell madly in love with a woman who was not only seven years older, but, by most accounts, *not* conventionally beautiful.
Folks, (men and women): Let’s stop beating ourselves up for who we are not. God (or whatever Higher Power you believe in) made us all unique for a reason. That doesn’t mean you should slack off, roam the planet in a sweatsuit, wear geometric polyesters once you turn 50, or give up on personal growth and development. It means you accept who you are, work to maximize your natural attributes, and trust that the RIGHT person will love you for you, and the best you that you can be.
Who wants to be on stage all the time? Who wants conditional love?
Margaret 38
@ Nicole, #24: Great post! So, so, true.
thatgirl 39
#36
Maybe you are casting too wide of a net? It might be beneficial to qualify your searches more and write to the men whom you find truly interesting and compatible, not just anyone and everyone and seeng what happns. Just a though.
Zaq 40
A number of Indian women have won the Miss World contest and are considered among the most attractive on the planet. With men, it is mostly about looks, so forget all this nonsense about unconditional love. Most love IS conditional in this world. Beauty is not subjective, its objective, at least for men. There is a very high consensus among men on which women are beautiful.
Now the good news. Unlike women, men set the bar low for who may be deemed acceptable to date. If I said that most men consider 80% of women acceptable, that would appear encouraging. Unfortunately, this would still leave one in five out in the cold. No one ever seems to think that it may be them.
A significant number of women are in the ‘not even on a desert island’ category.
The second piece of good news is that cosmetics can make a HUGE difference, and I have to include in that surgical procedures. I realize that this is not politically correct, but it is the reality.
If you are falling below the bar, I think you should try to get above it, not trying to force something with someone you are not attracted to.
Think looks that say healthy and fertile.
As a woman, this option is open to you. It is mostly of no use to men. I have a 5ft 5 male friend finding it incredibly difficult to get a date.
If I am going to be attractive to the opposite sex, I have no illusion that a great character is sufficient. I have to be the best me. I have to bring my best game. The high status me. The confident me. The wealthy me.
If there was a God, I’m sure we would live in a world where we are judged only on our compassion.
Sadly, we are stuck in this one. Anyway, I’m off down the Gym.
Goldie 41
@ Zaq, yeah I agree, a large number of men want to casually date or have ONS’s with us “furriners”, if only for bragging rights, especially if we look decent… but a long-term relationship or marriage is another story. All of a sudden people get cautious. What will my friends say? what will my family say? what’s going to happen if we’re at a party and my GF is the only non-Anglo-Saxon person in the room? Meantime, friends and family are offering the guy helpful advice like “OMG are you really dating an (Elbonian)? You better be careful!”
I’m in the Midwest, YMMV… but this is what I’ve seen — while I’ve been pretty successful at getting responses, first emails and first/second dates, only a few courageous, open-minded men have been able to tell me that they’d had a relationship with someone like me in the past, or were looking for one. And I’m even white… I can pass for one of them until I open my mouth. Pretty sad, but what can I say, life isn’t fair.
Sayanta 42
Zaq
Did you read my examples above of beautiful women struggling to get dates? (the one where I mentioned JDate, etc?) if what u say is true then that shouldn’t be happe Ning but it is. Like I said, life is random
Sayanta 43
Margaret
I love your Beatle example!
Same could be said to a lesser extent about Paul and Linda. Ok I’m going to go listen to Srgt Pepper now…
Ann 44
Also wanted to suggest the nerdy guys, if they can be made over. One of my good friends came to the US from India for grad school and stayed. Later, the son of one of her parents’ friends came to the US for grad school, too. On their first meeting as adults he asked her to marry him and she said no. He was ultra nerdy and had a terrible haircut. She said as much to a mutual friend, who told him. He didn’t take offense at all, but started to get hip. The good thing–he was still the sweetheart, which many nerds are. And then one day he kissed her, and it was all over after that! They’ve been together a looong time and have two kids now. Also, his nerdiness paid off in other ways and he makes a lot of money.
He did have to be made over, true. But if you consider a guys’ make-over potential, with the idea that you’ll be able to help with this (esp if you’re an American helping him get his bearings on foreign soil), you might find a gem underneath. (Personally, I’ve had a hard time getting along with Brahmins, have to say. Can’t imagine suggesting a makeover to a Brahmin. Does that sound awful?)
Panda 45
I may not be “as attractive as I think I am” but I’m a heck of a lot better looking than the typical online guy (in my age catagory since i’m 42) that contacts me.
Gross. Maybe it’s just the guys in Wisconsin. (shrugs)
I need to move. The nicer looking lads are all late 20′s and just looking for tail – so I know that’s not going anywhere.
mellie charnalia 46
Sorry, Ann, I guess you and I wouldn’t get along as I’m a “Brahmin.” Is it too much to hope to have a thoughtful discussion about this without having to read comments about how I might be fat and ugly, or address comments about Indians/Hindus?
How about some ideas about actually writing profiles and writing emails–things that have worked for people? Short of getting a boob job because (some) men find big breasts desirable, there’s nothing else I can do about my looks–I had a photographer friend do a whole photo shoot of me all dolled up, and while beauty is subjective, I’ve done what I can to show myself in the best light possible in the pictures. And like I mentioned, my looks certainly didn’t get in my way a few years ago when I was online–so I don’t think it’s that. I have a feeling it has to do with age & I will contemplate fibbing about my age just to see what kind of response I get…..I’m totally realistic that I’m not a model and have written to very average looking dudes–and have been quite aware of making sure I’m not communicating with people “out of my league” so to speak.
Sayanta, I hear you, girl! Goldie, yeah, life isn’t fair & I’m trying to think through this all while retaining my optimism and trying new tactics. And I cast a very wide net in terms of the “usual” stuff people might not like (i.e. shorter height), but I do exercise some thought in terms of who I want to write to so it’s not some random free for all. And, yes, I look to see the age range and only write if my age is included. ….
Sayanta 47
Ann
I guess we wouldn’t get along then :-p
Mellie
Another thought- what kind of emails are you sending? Our mental states are often communicated in our emails, whether we see it or not. If you’re feeling desperate (I don’t know if you are, I’m just using it as an example), that may be somehow coming across in your interactions. It seems that you’ve set the bar really really low (bc you’ve literally included EVERYBODY in your emails), and that can be akin to desperation. Some guys might be thinking it weird that an attractive educated woman is writing them, for example, if they are high school dropouts who live in their sisters basement. Before you all jump down my throat, I’m not saying those men are not worthy of love, I’m just saying people tend to stick to their own educational background and age when dating.
Sayanta 48
Mellie
You also might find this interesting
http://datelikeagrownup.com/2010/07/how-to-write-an-online-profile-a-mans-tips-for-women/
AS 49
@Sayanta #12 I am literally laughing my head off on your comments about the way some Indian men write their profiles and also use text speak, it is the biggest turn off but a very fair and true comment.
I’m an Indian from the UK and I run a singles club for Asian professionals where people meet face-to-face through activity based Asian dating events. I’m not sure what is around in the States but @Mellie if you’re not having much luck online may be it’s time to get out there and find some singles events to meet new people and change your approach completely. You probably have a busy schedule like most professionals but if it’s important enough…
Zaq 50
Sorry, but hot girls get massive attention. What do they have to do to get male attention ? Put up some decent photos, and well that’s it. Do you think men read profiles when they have to send a 100 emails to get 2 replies ?
OK, a quick scan. It is possible to screw it up in the profile. Someone I know, in her 40s but still very attractive, tried on line dating. I came across her profile by accident.
Nothing about her, everything about what she was expecting in a man. You must be educated. You must be fit. You must be above 5ft 10. You must have a full head of hair. You must be able to take me to exotic places, expensive restaurants etc etc. I was shocked. I didn’t realize she was so ugly.
In the vast majority of cases, women fail on line because they are too unattractive, or set the bar way too high.
Sayanta 51
Zaq
We’ll have to agree to disagree- please reread my post on #20. I’m not going to tote my own looks too much bc obviously I’m going to sound arrogant- but all I’ll say is I get about 500 clicks a week, and a bunch of those men are repeat ‘lookers.’ I’m pretty sure that they’re not doing it bc they think Im hideous. But when I email them (writing a personalized email), no response. And FYI, my profile just describes my personality in humorous anecdotes without stating what I’m looking for in a man. Now, I do get emails, so I’m not going to totally bitch here, but I’m by no means bombarded. And certainly not by men I like ( my weekend date being the exception).
Some of my girlfriends fit the conventional standards of American beauty and they’re so frustrated by OLD they deleted their profiles. I’ve read their profiles, and they’re great. NOT saying all this just bc they’re my friends. But guys never respond to them. Maybe they’re intimidated by a brain/beauty combo? I’ve heard men say they prefer women not to have both bc a woman like that is more likely to dump them. I don’t know…I’m just saying.
Age is DEF a factor though- at 25, I got a ton of emails even when I didn’t have a picture up! (explain that!)At 29, which was when I started taking OLD seriously, was when it got harder.
And out of curiosity, Zaq, do you have a lot of hot female friends? If not, how do you know how much attention a girl is or isn’t getting online? Have hot women TOLD you they get a ton of attention? If so, how do you know they’re telling the truth? People lie all the time to save their egos. And if they tell you they’re dating men they met online, how do you know THEY didn’t contact the men first? Trust me, I’ve CAUGHT other women lying about how much attention they get online or whether they contact men first.
Lastly, what IS a LOT of attention to you? 100 emails a week? Is someone who gets 3 winks a day and an email every day getting a LOT of attention? Or nothing?
That East Asian Man 52
Dear Mellie. Yes, sometimes it must seem that everyone else has better luck with online dating. Of course, that is simply an illusion. The reality is that dating (whether online or not) is full of heartache, something that each of us is willing to pursue only because a favorable outcome is so desirable.
I know that it is only a matter of time before you meet the right man. There are hundreds of these men in the NYC area today, and many thousands of them elsewhere. So what accounts for the delay in your meeting him?
One set of reasons has to do with him. He may be in another relationship that first needs to end. Or he may be available, but looking for you elsewhere – perhaps on another online dating website, or at an activity or location that you would find interesting. Maybe he’s living far away, and needs to follow through on his decision to move to NYC. Or perhaps he first needs to work on something within himself, so that he can deserve you.
Another set of reasons has to do with you. Perhaps your online dating profile and photos aren’t depicting the wonderful qualities that you offer in a relationship. Or maybe you are unduly restricting the focus of your search (for example, by only doing online dating), and you aren’t actively searching for him in all of the amazing things that you enjoy doing with your life. Or perhaps you first need to work on something within yourself, to be the kind of partner that your man needs in a relationship.
Your man hasn’t found you yet, which means that he is giving you the gift of time. Use it wisely, so that you are ready for him when he finds you.
Shaswata P 53
I just want to throw in a question…It seems a lot of older women(above 30-35) are having trouble in online dating which younger women seem to not…Is it because older women are wanting marriage in contrast to younger women and men are simply not marrying because society has disincentivized marriage? Are older online daters less romantic??
Anyways reading about the experiences of some here makes for a eerie similarity to the Dharmic view of Samsara:
The more you experience the more resistance you tend to develop towards experiences and yet still the more you want to experience
Zaq 54
Sayanta
I never trust what women say they want or do in dating. It is action that counts. But you only need to look at the OKCupid research, or look up freakonomics to see that having analysed thousands of OLD interactions, and used objective third party assessment of peoples level of attraction, men overwhelmingly contact the most attractive. This is actual measurable data.
However, the same research showed that although men would contact the less attractive as well (if not at the same frequency) the women were pretty much ONLY contacting the top guys.
This ties in with most of the comments made by men on this blog.
It is far more likely that a women is being too picky, than that she isn’t attractive enough. I met an Indian woman about three weeks ago, who was wearing a sari. Very attractive. Unfortunately she pulled out of the social group I met her at. Was she afraid she didn’t fit in ? If so her fears were ill-founded.
Sayanta 55
That East Asian Man
I always feel so good after reading your comments- do you have a blog?
Ann 56
Sayanta@47: I meant Brahmin guys–should have been clearer. I went out with two, at different times back when I was dating (one was long distance, for a full year). It was like I was supposed to worship and take care of them because I was clearly so beneath them. Couldn’t get into it. Especially the constant babble about Orientalism and the disdainful jokes about how stupid white people are. That said, so many of the Brahmin guys I’ve known seemed to have a thing for blondes anyway, so I don’t know why these guys were going out with me. I wasn’t going to change my hair color for them!!!
Goldie 57
@48 Thanks Sayanta for the link, but LOL I think that “10 reasons why I’d be a perfect girlfriend” list is a little too much. With the exception of #3, the list describes my Shetland Sheepdog to a T. It paints a portrait of someone too clingy, too incapable of having a life outside of her boyfriend. IMO.
@ Zaq: I don’t think men read profiles, I know they do. You know how? – because I received emails with specific questions about something in my profile. I’ll admit that they’ll probably look at photos first, and then, if they like the photos, they’ll go ahead and read the profile, otherwise they won’t bother. But seriously, men have to read that stuff, unless they want to be left forever wondering why they only get two replies to their 100 emails. You know how many emails I got in my six months of OLD, that consisted entirely of “Hi”, “Your hot”, “How are you”? – cannot tell you, I lost count. Know how many of those I replied to? ZERO. Because, what do you say to that? “Hi”, “Thanks”, “Good, thanks”, and then the conversation is pretty much over. Men who ask specific questions about something specific in a woman’s profile, put themselves miles ahead of the competition. Same probably goes for women, because I always emailed people with specific questions, and had no problem getting responses. (sometimes I emailed people that later turned out to be dead wrong for me, but that’s another story.)
Ann 58
Sayanta@51: It’s really hard to know why something doesn’t happen. And it’s very frustrating. In trying to figure out why I think we usually blame the so-called “deficiency” that we feel most vulnerable about. But maybe we’re not right to do that. About the online dating email issue, it could be that a lot more people are coupled up by 29 and so that’s why the number of emails change. That might not be a bad thing, though. How many of those 100 emails at 25 were anything more than young guys looking to play around? I’d say that getting married or finding a partner after all of that craziness goes away is a good thing. People in their 30s are saner, they know themselves better, they’re more established on a career track. And they’re more selective. So once you get it, it’s better. (NPR had a broadcast about the recent Pew Center stats about marriage, and this was a suggested takeaway. Today, Donna Reed would likely be older, working, in an egalitarian partnership, and a person of color.)
This older-wiser-better kind of courtship is not the way our parents did it, maybe, but it’s the way people are doing it today. So you’re on the cutting edge. :)
No roadmap, though.
Goldie 59
I second the motion for That East Asian Man to start a blog if he hasn’t already, and share the link with us if possible! Your comments are amazing, thanks!!
Sayanta 60
Goldie-
I don’t know, I disagree with your assessment of that list. A few might be a bit much, and it is generic, but I think it has the right idea. I think a creative, intelligent woman could take the ‘essence’ of that list and play with it to suit her values and personality.
Ann-
Good points, sometimes the answer is there is no answer. I hear you about the coupling at 29 thing though…I think that was a big factor. But at that point, I had so much going on in my life (not good stuff) that it would have been a bad time for me to be in a relationship anyway.
SS 61
Have you ever considered a matchmaker? (And not a traditionally ethnic one)
This worked for me… and while I’m American, I’m not white. I also was not dating in NYC, so I know that’s a whole other ball of wax!
Sayanta 62
wow- I did the ‘girlfriend’ thing on the list from the link, and just got 10 responses today. okay girls, I think we know what the issue was. Don’t wanna jinx myself though…lol
Evan Marc Katz 63
What do you mean, you “did the girlfriend thing”? You mean you copied that list? Or you rewrote your profile to illustrate what HE gets out of dating you, as opposed to how amazing you are?
Sayanta 64
LOL-
Evan, yeah. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I didn’t copy that list- I just tweaked it to suit my values. And to answer your last question, a resounding yes.
Ruby 65
Funny, I just stumbled across this website: http://singlemindedwomen.com/money-tips/2011-top-10-cities-for-single-women/4/
NYC is listed as the top city for single women!
Ann 66
Sayanta@62: Good news!! That’s what I was getting at before–if something isn’t working there could be a million “reasons” why not. It isn’t until something starts working that we can even take a guess at what works (keeping in mind that correlation and causation could be two different things).
And often when something isn’t working other people take that opportunity to let us know what they think is wrong with us (the reason why something isn’t working), under the guise of offering “helpful” feedback. And we do that to ourselves, too. Getting a kick when down usually doesn’t help anyone to get up.
mellie charnalia 67
these comments are all so fascinating.
Ann, I can understand what you are saying–the problem with online communication is it’s hard to get across our points sometimes.
Sayanta, that’s so cool! I hope to continue to hear about your dating adventures! I also tweaked my profile, using both Evan’s techniques and saying a bit more about what HE’D get out of this. I keep having to remember, how does a man see this? I keep tweaking and tweaking, trying to strike the right tone….
That East Asian Man, I’d read a blog by you!
Ann 68
Mellie@67: It’s almost like writing sales copy or something. “A little bored these days? Date me and have the time of your life!” Then you have to put all the disclaimers in little tiny letters at the bottom, to be read in a super-fast voice: ”Negative side effects if you are (fill in the blank with superficial things that people reject men for).”
Just joking. But I think there’s a kernel of truth in it.
Sayanta 69
Ann
It’s so funny- I just read a guy’s profile that was identical to what you just wrote ! Lol
Ann 70
Sayanta@69: Guess I’m not as original as I thought.
Raina 71
I am a 34 year old Indian woman who is on Shaadi.com and eHarmony and Match and I get A LOT of responses from men. I do not fit the age criteria whatsoever of most men. Also, I have an Indian friend who is a doctor and is very overweight, and she still has A TON of responses from men. I used to live in LA for 12 years, and I’ll tell you that I find men in bigger cities to be more picky and much more superficial. I’ve expanded my search to all over the world and have gotten attention from some pretty decent guys from all over. New York men who are educated and attracted probably have an entitlement complex like the men in LA who I used to meet and are much more primitive in their selection criteria. That said, I am long distance dating someone in Paris, France right now (French and not Indian) and he has dated a ton of exotic women who are ‘perfect 10′s’ in his mind, but I can’t shake him no matter how hard I try. I’m not the nicest woman in the world, but I stand up for myself unapologetically in all ways, and I think he respects that even though I’m not model material. Also, why do I seem to get a lot of responses online? I did avail myself of e-Cyrano services (but strangely, I don’t seem to receive Evan’s emails any longer!). Honestly, having a profile that is well-written is like 60% of the battle. Also, I think that men are wanting a woman who seems ‘fun’. I am fun, but I’m also looking for commitment, but my profile is geared to soothe the male anxiety that a relationship wouldn’t be fun. I make myself seem endlessly entertaining and exciting and mysterious on my profile, and I think they like that. You just have to push the right button with them. Also, white men LOVE the mysterious exotic aspect of Indian women. Play up the stereotype with funky eye makeup and with something a little exotic in your appearance, but like the white fantasy version of the exotic and not the Indian conservative version of exotic (think belly dancer). To white guys, anyone from the Mahgreb and eastwards is cool as long as they have the mysterious belly dancer vibe even if belly dancing has zilch to do with India. I’ve gotten feedback from men that they don’t like it when an Indian could pass for a generic white woman with the only difference being her skin color. Play up your ‘exotic’ difference, as stupid as that sounds. Do all the superficial stuff, like smelling like incense, Egyptian jasmine oil perfume – white guys EAT THIS STUFF UP! So honestly, it has nothing to do with your looks and more to do with your vibe. Men like the ‘vibe’. Honestly, the more generic white girl imitation you look, the less successful you will be. White men expect and appreciate Eastern sensuality in a woman. Think Mississippi Masala and watch an excellent movie called Sabah to get back in touch with your Eastern seduction moves.
eHarmony is boring, which is why if you are forced to sound boring through its frame, you will not get responses. Shaadi has been AWESOME for me. Match is just for the generic white guy looking for the generic white girl fantasy (you know, the cookie cutter tan, white teeth, big boobs fantasy). Brashly be yourself without apology and look a little flirty arrogant in your pictures with the kajaal and you will start attracting men. Be PASSIONATE. White guys love this about ‘foreign’ women, even if you were born and raised in the States like me. And…most white guys I’ve dated immediately ask me about India (even though I’m American through and through) and want to know about tantra and other stuff. It’s very annoying, but humor them long enough, and then they will get to know and like you just as you are, but you have to train them into that. It sounds stupid, but when I was more like a generic version of an average white girl, online dating didn’t work for me, either.
Raina 72
Also, to add, I’ve found that a lot of white men appreciate the family values of Eastern women. White women who NYC guys are dating expect nannies and country clubs, and are generally not that useful to men once they are married. Basically, it’s a huge advantage to be an Indian woman. Wrap yourself in that Eastern mystique that white men SO love, and then they will love you for your smarts and family values once they get to know you better, and not all white women can compete with that. If you look at online forums about white guys who love Eastern chicks, they say that we’re more feminine and family oriented than white women. I’m not making that up. If anyone here thinks I am, just Google “Why do white men like Asian women?” and then read the thread comments.
Sayanta 73
Raina—
I see what ur saying, but this would sound like I’m trying to make myself into someone I’m COMPLETELY not. Not even close. I might as well put up a profile of myself as a 24 year old blond flight attendant. But I think you’re right about Match…very cookie cutter white. I’m not ‘generic’ though– in my interests and tastes.
And also, it seems that you’re playing up the whole ‘exotic’ thing, yet you talk about success on Shaadi…I’m not getting that…
Shaswata P 74
Raina @71
LOL Tantra…Really?? Tell them to retain their semen strictly within their bodies for a few years before they see any use of this spiritual practice…..
Anyways your posts are fun to read
Ann 75
Raina, you are hysterical. And I think you are right, too. Ha!!!!
Raina 76
Sayanta@73 I have real life success with the tactics I mentioned, and I’m not even that kind of Bollywood princess at all. On Shaadi, I have met some pretty hot Indian dudes, born and raised in the U.S. Match.com for me is demeaning. I’m more educated and sophisticated and cultured than 95% of the white women on there, but I feel like I have to compete with what I consider to be very average women and their very average looks, but they have an advantage since they’re white, and white people will tend to feel more comfortable with others who are like them. There is no problem with that tendency between those of the same race – nothing abnormal there. Shaswata P@74. YES, the kinds of things told me to by white men on a consistent basis are so ridiculous and laughable that I almost can’t believe that those experiences actually happened. A white guy would almost never ask a question about sexual experiences or a woman’s penchance for pole dancing, but I am amazed by how many white men seem to think it’s all right to ask these things ON A FIRST DATE with me. They are very unsophisticated in their understanding of the East and the social mores and such, so even Ivy League grads with stellar backgrounds and travel resumes routinely make such mistakes with me. They don’t get it, because in their own eyes, THEY ARE SUCH A CATCH, and so intelligent that a ‘foreign’ woman like myself would be worthy to be chosen by such a specimen. It’s almost like the bestow upon me the ultimate gift of assimilation. Anyway, it’s annoying, but if you like them enough, then you can play the game and let them know later how stupid they sounded when they made dumb comments about your culture to you. I love the ones who are also more Eastern spiritual than you and try to school you on your own religion. I swear, it’s insane. But some of them are fun, and if they want to parade you around their friends for exotic street cred and so they can look cool and cultural, I think it’s fair to let them take you out to dinner and pay for things since they don’t have a true understanding of how your culture works, and truthfully, they don’t want to. Once you bring up the serious topics surrounding culture, they appear super shocked that you actually do have REAL Indian roots that you’d like to maintain. They just thought it was like a cool superficial thing to be a part of, and it was usable for them to gain esteem points in their circles. But actually eating a vegetarian dinner for Diwali (one night out of the entire year)? Fuhgedaboutit.
Shaswata P 77
@76 Raina
Once again your posts are very funny and informative….I would concur with you …I also get that sometimes where people think Indian Spirituality means Tantric Practices and only that….It sometimes become so exasperating that I donot even try to enlighten them that Tantric Sexuality forms a super-miniscule part of the whole plethora of Indian Spiritual Traditions…I mean seriously how many Tantric communes are there in India? and in the West it seems many people are interested in the superficial stuffs like the fake yoga and get genuinely shocked and scared to bits that real Genuine Yoga requires a lot of penance,ascetism and sexual continence( even being married)
A suggestion perhaps…Have you or other Indian friends among you ever considered in getting know the IIT-IIM grads ….themselves being extremely successful at a young age they tend to value educated Western Indian women who know their way around the corporate world and still hold on to their Indian cultural values
There are dedicated websites where you can meet them
Sayanta 78
Raina
Of course there are always ignorant people- but we seem to have had very different experiences with white men when it comes to the cultural thing. The ones I met who were “schooled” in Hinduism or Buddhism have not been condescending or arrogant about it at all. In fact I think some of them show MORE dedication and interest in the topic than Indians do. And no one has ever attempted to thrust knowledge on my own religion on me- in fact, a couple of times I was embarrassed when they asked me questions, assuming I’d know for sure, and I didn’t have the answer.
And never in my life has anyone EVER brought up pole dancing or any other kind of interpretive dance or tantra. The most these guys have asked me about my culture is what part of India are my parents from? It’s like it’s been a non-issue with the white men I’ve actually had dates with or just met casually at parties, etc.
Maybe it’s because I grew up in the tri state area.
Andrew 79
“Mellie
You also might find this interesting
http://datelikeagrownup.com/2010/07/how-to-write-an-online-profile-a-mans-tips-for-women/”
Well shoot, I wrote that list over a year ago and it’s still getting attention! Speaking as a guy in his 40s and who actively dates via online dating websites, I look for profiles where the woman truly understands that she must bring something to the dating and relationship table other than “I’m fabulous!”.
Evan is doing yeoman work to help women understand the realities of Dating 2.0 in a world where more and more men are taking the Red Pill and understanding the real relationship challenges between the sexes, not the pablum presented by the mainstream media and through the emotional pornography of social expectations. Life isn’t a romantic comedy or a romance novel.
Sayanta 80
Hey Andrew
I already posted that in #48!!
K 81
@Sayanta re: post 78, I concur I haven’t had any of Raina’s experiences either regarding my culture and I’m a west coast girl.
Ann 82
Sayanta@78: Agree with you on that. A lot of white people do know lots about India’s history and culture, so they wouldn’t speak like that. And I don’t know anyone who would talk the way Raina describes–except for people who are not very aware in general. Who’d want to go out with a guy like that? Ew. So no need to manipulate him into a relationship just to let him know what a rube he is. Hard to imagine that that would work out very well for either person.
Ann 83
Andrew@79: What is the Red Pill? I don’t think my boyfriend takes that. Maybe he should? Please advise.
Sayanta 84
Ann
I was wondering the same thing about the Red Pill– I’m guessing it’s not a reference to Communism
Evan Marc Katz 85
I might not be the best to describe it, but the Red Pill is a metaphorical term for Truth. Telling women what you NEED to hear about what men think, rather than what you WANT to hear. Just like there’s a big feminist movement speaking for women out there, there’s a smaller movement of men who have started blogging about being men.
And let’s just say that the folks on feminist blogs would not get along with the Red Pill guys of the Manosphere, no more than they get along with me for writing things like “men prefer women who make men feel good”. Men know this to be an unassailable truth. Yet certain women prefer to think they can connect with men by “being themselves” (i.e. emasculating them).
Put another way, if you frequently find yourself arguing with me on this blog, you definitely don’t want to read the blogs on the Manosphere, which are like reading my stuff without any sense of diplomacy or the deep desire to help women.
Goldie 86
Google is your friend, ladies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill Also, if you haven’t seen The Matrix, you should. Would make a great movie date!
@ Evan: now I’m curious about the Manosphere. Are there any blogs you can recommend? If not for me, then maybe for my male & female friends that are out there dating, or maybe for my sons when they’re old enough (they’re in HS and college). Thanks!
Ann 87
Is the suggestion that women prefer men who make them feel bad about themselves? If that isn’t the suggestion, then the true statement would be that all people prefer people who make them feel good. No need to make this a gender thing.
Don’t need a pill to figure that out!!!
Evan Marc Katz 88
No, Ann. Almost all of my advice is about women understanding what men think. Those who resist usually come back with some form of “But MEN…” What men do is irrelevant to a discussion about how women can improve their own relationships. And far too many women see fit to criticize men instead of being supportive of them. This is not to say that men don’t do the same thing; it’s just a different discussion for a different blog.
Ann 89
I still say that all people want to be around people who make them feel good about themselves–it’s sort of the golden rule of all relationships.
Goldie 90
@ Ann, I agree with the general idea. The point of this blog and some other dating blogs, as I see it, is to get the message across that it takes different types of actions to make men and women feel good. We do things for men that we think will make them feel good, and they either don’t notice or freak out. The opposite is also sometimes true.
This is actually the first thing I learned when I moved to college and started living on campus with roommates (I’ve shared a room with a total of ten girls over seven years, 2-5 people living in the same room at a time) – Golden rule does not work. We do unto others as we want others to do unto us, but those others are not us, they’re different. They don’t think the same as we do, do not like the same things as we do, and do not necessarily want to be done unto as we would them do unto us. And that was all women. With men, it takes even more adjustment to figure out what makes them feel good. I’ve raised two sons, was in a relationship/marriage for 22 years total, and I still haven’t figured all of it out.
Ann 91
Goldie@90: Oh. I thought we were talking about general do-unto-others behavior like being respectful of people’s work, acknowledging what they do well, tolerating quirks, not criticizing, being sensitive to what they like/don’t like, etc. The guys I like to be around don’t fall into any “typical guy” category, so I’m lucky in that regard. Don’t have to treat the guys any differently than I treat the gals. We’re all just individuals. (I find people who fit the gender stereotypes too neatly a little phony, actually. Like they’re in drag, only not of the opposite gender.)
Selena 92
Ann #89
I still say that all people want to be around people who make them feel good about themselves…
I agree.
Teresa 93
When one lives by the golden rule they are not doing so with any expectations of others. Whether others like it how you treat them or treat you the same way is irrelevant. Nothing wrong with treating others with kindness and respect that goes for dating, work etc.
Goldie 94
@ Teresa #93: “Whether others like it how you treat them … is irrelevant.”
Um, this kinda defeats the purpose of the Golden Rule
@Ann: I agree about everyone being an individual, but, at least as the dating game goes, I find there’s a grain of truth to the gender stereotypes. Men tend to play this game differently from the way women do. I’m actually reading a book on evolutionary psychology right now that explains pretty logically why this is happening.
Saint Stephen 95
Goldie Said:
Um, this kinda defeats the purpose of the Golden Rule.
Aha! It’s like you read my mind – Just what i wanted to say.
Sayanta 96
Btw
Little tidbit- I went to send a guy a message on OKCupid– nice looking guy with a masters in computers but nothing extraordinary about his profile. Age 34.
Anyways, when I hit ‘send’ it ended up his mailbox is full and he can’t receive messages!!!! And it’s not as though he’s this brilliant humorous Brad Pitt. And I don’t know any woman his’equal (going by the above) who’s ever had a full mailbox. Even the ones who get regular emails.
It does seem that women have to do more work than the guy just to ATTRACT a guy. We’ve become the pursuers.
You have now entered the Twilight Zone…
Saint Stephen 97
Sayanta Said:
It does seem that women have to do more work than the guy just to ATTRACT a guy. We’ve become the pursuers.
That depends on the guy u’re looking to attract. Cute guys aren’t many and they are massively pursued by so many other women.
ofw dating 98
its good that you’re trying. you may feel you’re one of a failure at this but no. all of the effort you’re doing will eventually pay off. there’s always hope ya know.
Michelle 99
Finally Goldie #94!! Shout the book out to all who will listen…if men and women better understood ourselves and our equal opposites at our reptilian brain level, things might not be so contentious. Hard to get mad at someone for something they can’t control, and that tends to be the things we get irritated with (mostly women).
vincent 100
@Sayanta #96
In OKCupid world “Sent” messages are counted toward your total quota. Like the majority of men he might have sent out a lot of messages. I would save him as a favorite and check back in a few days.
Ann 101
Sorry–I’ve read a lot of evolutionary psychology and I think it’s bogus science. Also, the top folks in that field are always contradicting each other–because it’s pretty easy to poke holes in those theories. Which is all they are. Can’t be proved or disproved. But if those beliefs make you happy, more power to ya. I’ll stick with the Golden Rule rule. Stands the test of time.
Mark 102
I would bet my life that she only sends messeges to men with incomes larger than her own. She probably rejects men with smaller incomes left-and-right, and then complains when men reject her. Oh, the irony. Hurts, huh? Remember that when you delete the next 100 messeges you receive from men who might be one social class beneath you.
Sorry, but I have no sympathy for women who cannot find love on dating websites. It’s not our fault that you set the bar so high. Here are some common requirements from women: Must be taller; have an equal or greater income; equal or greater education; must be in shape; must be old fashion (only when it comes to dating courtship).
Ladies, you did this to yourselves. Date like a man and watch the problems disappear. Step 1) Date down the socioeconomic ladder. Step 2) Date men shorter than yourself. Step 3) Date high school educated people. Step 4) Ask men out. Step 5) Be truly independent and pay for your half of the dinner bill.
Julia 103
@Mark I have little sympathy for men like you who feel like women should lower themselves to date you. Here’s a hint maybe you shouldn’t be looking for a 10 who is 3 inches taller than you and willing to pay her own way to be graced in your short, less educated company. When its put that way, can’t you see how its not terribly appealing?
Jack 104
@ Julia I agree with what Mark is saying. I don’t understand why what Mark is objectionably – perhaps the key is to see people for who they are and not to judge them by reference to all the parameters you list. Also, I think Mark is just suggesting that people have to give a little, I don’t think he’s suggesting that you have to compromise on all fronts.
Goldie 105
@ Mark #102, re your #5, I’ve heard different things from different people. A close friend of mine once told me that, if a woman pays her half on a first date, there’s not going to be a second. He finds it insulting. Not that a woman shouldn’t still do the reach
Pretty sure there’ll be different opinions on your #4 too. Some men probably like to be asked out, but my guess is most will feel uncomfortable if that happens.
@ Julia #103, at least two men that I dated were 2-3 inches shorter than I am. One of them had also never been to college. I had mad crushes on both. They were just that good. They were fun, intellectually curious, knew how to treat a woman well and make her feel good. It didn’t work out with either of them, but not because they weren’t up to my specs — it was for more complicated reasons.
Martin 106
40 year old white man’s perspective (for whatever it’s worth): I recently started the online dating thing; mostly to quell my coworkers, dentist, and friends desire to “set me up”, ugh. It is no secret that men are visual….so PLEASE no picture of your pet dog. I love dogs/pets but I don’t want to date them
. Don’t try too hard…men aren’t as Neanderthal as u might think and looking like u just got done working at hooters might get u attention but equally a turnoff. Likewise, I will keep my shirt on to leave to your imagination if I have an awesome six pack and a really cool tribal tattoo. No “mirror pictures”!! If you feel absolutely compelled to do so with your cool iphone 5, please remove your vibrator off of the sink countertop (seriously saw this once). Because men are visual average looking women doing the online dating thing probably get overlooked some and fewer replies then an attractive women…this seems to make sense but don’t fret. The reality is most men I imagine who are my age who email a 20 something hottie probably aren’t getting a response back and reality will eventually hit them.
So how can an average girl, or any girl for that matter get a guys attention? HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR! I don’t know if I’m atypical but I actually read profiles; at the very least I will look at your “headline” or whatever it’s called. The headline although lame in some respects is your first impression and sometimes your only chance to leave any kind of impression – so make it funny. I can’t say what is funny but I can tell u what is lame: 1) any philosophical quote by a famous person. Quoting smart people doesn’t make u smart. Plus, people go to online dating sites to find dates, not to be enlightened. 2) “I can’t believe I’m on here”. Yeah we get it…the rest of us are losers and you’re not. 3) “Just looking”. Translation: I don’t really need to be on here to find a date; unlike the rest of u. Um looking is free….no need to post a profile. 4) “looking for my soul mate” or any other derivative of that. Glad to know u haven’t completely given up.
The profile: I admit men are pretty dumb but we’re not completely stupid! It’s pretty obvious when you’re telling us what U think we want to hear and having read many profiles I can tell u that many are amazingly similar. So again I say, share a funny story or substantiate what u say. It’s the Internet….I could easily turn myself into the Dos Equis guy…..u know the most interesting guy in America. People just need to be a bit more honest. Ugh, stop the “I like to travel”….that’s like saying I like to go on vacation; who doesn’t. Don’t be negative…nobody wants to hear about the last loser u dated or that men in general suck. If the question asks “do u have kids” don’t have your response as “I’ll tell u later”. This response fools nobody. If u have kids be proud of them.
I obviously can’t speak for all white men regarding indian women, but like all women some are pretty and some not so much. I imagine there are some white guys that would never date a girl outside of their race. Same is true for both men and women of all races. I don’t usually date indian women for a few reasons. I live in Chicago and I don’t know if its different here from the coasts, but indian women don’t usually seem to date outside of their race. As such, subconsciously I believe that any attraction that I might have I’ve turned pretty much off. No point in lusting after something that isn’t going to happen. fortunately for whatever reason white men can do this because we can date fairly successfully in other races. Also of the same line it’s simply easier to date in our own race or similar In regards to acceptance. By that I mean culturally and socially. Culturally it’s much easier to date Hispanics and even Far East Asians then it is to date indians. As you start to see more 2nd and 3rd generation indians in this country I think the cultural difference will lessen making it more acceptable ect. Don’t get me wrong it’s not that I need an indian america to act “white”….rather I don’t want to date an indian women to only find out that her father totally disapproves and deal with that nonsense when I really don’t need to. Anyway best of luck…don’t try too hard to be something your not or believe u need to be….that road ends up bumpy.