I Married a Great Guy. Why Am I So Unhappy?

Evan Marc Katz

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Hi Evan,

My husband and I come from two different cultures (I’m Asian, he’s African-American) and were raised very differently. Not that these differences are necessarily bad, but we can’t agree on anything. We also don’t have common interests so we spend a lot of time apart. I married him because he’s a good guy, I love him, and he convinced me that we could make it work.

Now we’re not even two years into our marriage (after three years of dating, during which time we didn’t live together), and I can’t stop fantasizing about leaving (while alternately crying at the thought of it). I’ve taken on a major responsibility: taking care of his six-year-old son who’s with us 75% of the time. And I think I’m more attached to his son than I am to him because he’s barely around.

He’s very, um, hardworking. On weekends, he’s gone by 6 a.m. and doesn’t come home until dinner – sometimes after. That’s EVERY weekend. He doesn’t have a high-powered job that requires him to be there. He CHOOSES to be there. He has a decent-paying day job, but on weekends, he keeps looking for ways to make money—selling clothes, shoes, selling anything. When he’s home, he’s on the phone talking about work. But he never spends any money!

We never go anywhere (this is not just a superlative – we literally haven’t been out of town in the five years we’ve been together – I take vacations by myself). He doesn’t care for the beach, the mountains, trying out new restaurants, dancing, or checking out new places. He also doesn’t want to spend any money, even if I always offer to cover half. We did go somewhere nice on our honeymoon, but only because our wedding guests paid for it. Plus he doesn’t want to miss work.

He’s a great guy. He loves me and he’s very affectionate around me. Always treats me right… when he’s around. He calls me a lot to check on me, but then checks off once he realizes I’m okay. When I’m not okay he pesters me to tell him what’s wrong, but when I do (I’ve discussed all this with him) he gets defensive. He talks about how I don’t understand how hard he has to work because I don’t have a kid or that I grew up wealthy, or that “you do what you need to do before you do what you want to do.” The thing is, there’s always something that needs to be done, right?

The way I see it, I’ve taken on a lot of responsibility by marrying a single dad–who’s never around! I feel like a roommate, a nanny, and someone he has sex with. So I’m thinking about leaving him. I figure he’s a great guy, I love him, I’m super attracted to him, but our life together sucks. I work hard and I save my money. I clean up after myself and pay my bills just like he does, (we split all our expenses), but I need to enjoy myself too. I’m only 32.

What do you think? I married him after reading Lori Gottlieb’s book, Marry Him. Am I asking for too much??

Thanks! –Ann

Dear Ann,

It hurts to get letters like yours.

There’s a huge difference between a good man and a good husband.

You feel like you made a smart, adult decision by marrying a responsible, ethical man who loves you. Sure, you knew there’d be compromises. But you didn’t think it would turn out like this.

So brace yourself for some tough love.

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62 Comments »Filed Under Marriage

62 Responses to “I Married a Great Guy. Why Am I So Unhappy?”

1. Karmic Equation 1

   Ann,
    
   There may be two books that could help you figure out what to do next:
    
   1) The Passion Trap: Where Is Your Relationship Going?  by Dean C Delis
    
   2) Act like a lady, think like a man, by Steve Harvey.
    
   Your situation sounds very similar to one of the three stories in the Delis book. And it’s also very likely that your husband is operating on the “Provider” principle as explained by Steve Harvey’s book, which may give you a different feeling about his workaholism…
    
   I think you might want to explore couples counseling before calling it quits. You’ll feel better if you’ve exhausted all possibilities before ending a relationship with someone you love.
    

2. maria 2

   This is good. Women just want to get married. We fantasize about having someone, a ring and being able to say “my husband”. Thats what happened here. 
   He is taking you for granted.
   He married you. Your being a wife. And he is not around.
   Separiting may shake him a little bit. Men often want you when your gone for some reason.

   I would also suggest “Why men MARRY Bitches” And “Why men LOVE Bitches.”

   When things are getting out of hand, you have to start back at the basics.

   You also have to trust yourself. Dont worry about what other people think or say.  

3. Goldie 3

   Ugh. Sounds familiar! Sorry, I don’t like what I’m reading about this guy. I don’t like it at all! I really do not think it can work. I mean, offering him to go to counseling together won’t hurt, but I bet a hundred bucks that he’ll say no. Because, a)counseling costs money; b)it takes time away from his work, and c)oh by the way, who’s going to watch the six-year-old when you’re both in a counselor’s office? But, most importantly, d)he has no reason to change anything. He has a very nice life right now as it is. He’s out all day doing what he wants, things get done at home, bills get paid (half of them with his wife’s money), he gets to save the rest. He’s exactly where he wants to be.
    
   And another thing. I’d really, really like to hear more about this weekend shoe- and clothing-selling business. In this economy, I have a hard time believing that someone can make money just going out all day Saturday and Sunday to “sell anything” – where does he get this anything from? who is he selling this anything to? The question I’m really trying to ask here is, is he even really working when he’s out of the house on Saturdays and Sundays? 
    
   As someone who’s been sort of there (though not nearly as bad), read books, went to counseling — and, before that, both of us tried to start over and rekindle the old flame — it worked for maybe a year and then it was back to square one — my advice is to leave. I have a really hard time believing that this situation can ever change in a significant way, except maybe for worse. Sorry you have to go through this.

4. Essie 4

   Situations like the OP are not uncommon.  I was with a good man for over 2 years who wanted to marry.  The sex was terrible, conversations with him bore me and overall, I just felt kinda “dead” inside.
   However, I didn’t want to be single and in my 30′s anymore, so I tried to make it work. In hindsight, it was an utter waste of time. Essentially, the main benefit I got from being with him was the avoidance of having to face family and friends as a “spinster”. 
   He was tall, in shape, made six figure and was a year younger than me. Ironically, I didn’t have to compromise on a lot of the “checklist” requirements that Evan advocates letting go. But those things essentially can’t make up for lack of connection or not having your emotional needs met.  
   Being with a “good man” who isn’t a true partner to you is almost the same as being with a “bay boy” who is going to screw you over.  Time is wasted in both situations.
   I, too read Lori Gottlieb’s book prior to dating this guy and thought I should give him a shot.  It surely was not her intention to make women panic about their declining marital value, or that they should settle on a lackluster relationship, but the tone of her book did imply that they should.
    

5. Amy 5

   I’m somewhat sympathetic to the poster, Ann. When you get to a certain age, there are unspoken expectations from family, culture and society, that put pressure on some women to marry for the wrong reasons. if she was already feeling ambivalent, and then read Marry Him, I can see why that could tip her over into the wrong decision. Of course she is ultimately at fault, and yes she did settle, but it sounds like she was searching for answers as to what to do, and she misinterpreted Lori Gottlieb’s advice. That book is so controversial, I doubt she is the first woman to use Gottlieb’s wisdom to ill-effect. (I married before that book was written, and I married a good guy who was a very bad husband). I think Ann married due to a lack of confidence in her own feelings, certainly not a crime, but something that has huge repercussions. i wish you well Ann, in sorting things out. (My personal advice? Gracefully move on. You are very young and have plenty of time to reinvent yourself… you get a do-over!) The most important thing is not to spend too much more ruminating about what if, or what to do. Your letter sounds like you know exactly what to do.

6. Jackie Holness 6

   Deep…really deep…not sure how to call it…but if you have been miserable this whole time, maybe it really is time to move on…hate to say that but…

7. androgynous 7

   Not wanting to contradict Evan, I would think separation is the last resort. Ann, have you told your husband point blank how you feel ? have you communicated to your husband what your needs are and how he nas not met them ?  have you given him a chance to change things about the way you live ? have you asked him to consider going to marriage counselling ? If you were just in a dating situation, I would say yeah go ahead and separate. But you are married ! And it appears his child may have formed an attachment to you and may look to you as a surrogate mother. 
   To other readers here, if the poster here was a man, would you all suggest that he walked away from his single mother wife and her kid who has developed an attachment to him ? Because his needs are not being met by his hard working single mother wife ? I think you would all be up in arms. Yet it is perfectly OK for this woman to do the same ? Because she is a woman and is not having her needs met ?

8. Daphne 8

   You’ve known him five years, only married for two ? And during the first three years of dating/ courting you did not get out of town for a vacation at all ? That means the letter writer knew what she was getting into. Working *all* the time ? This does not sound good- although it’s not for the usual reasons marriages sound bad (cheating, abuse).
   A serious talk is in order, right away.
    

9. Jen 9

   @ KarmicEquation- why not recommend any of Evan’s books or tapes? Steve Harvey is a comedian (being nice with that title)  who’s been in the news for cheating on his wife. He’s certainly not anyone who’s book I’d be reading! 

10. marymary 10

    I think this may be fixable because you say you love him and are attracted experience
    does he know just how strongly you feel? Maybe if you did separate briefly it might jolt him out of his complacency. Go home to your mother for a week?
    people can and do change. But they have to be motivated and it takes a lot of work, and encouragement. It,s up to you two to decide if you want to. You can’t fix it on your own and neither can he.  
    If you marry someone for fifty years some of those years are going to be better than others. Maybe better years await.
    just don’t have a child yet! 

11. Goldie 11

    @ Androgynous #7, look, I cannot speak for other commenters, but the reason why *I* suggested that the OP walk away is because I, in a similar situation, *did* walk away, and have not regretted it since. It was a tough decision, as we’d been together pretty much all our adult lives and had two children together. Financially, my situation is now a lot worse than it used to be. In all other respects, I am a lot better off. My ex is a nice guy, (just like the OP’s husband), but honestly right now, looking back, I cannot understand what had taken me so long.
     
    I did not want to bring up the child, because the OP sounds vulnerable enough that by mentioning the child we can guilt-trip her into staying in the situation she’s currently in. It is a tough situation but seriously, the man is right now acting like he’s a non-custodial parent to his son already!! he hardly ever sees him and the OP supports this kid financially as much as his father does. That’s ridiculous, and for everyone’s benefit, this cannot be allowed to continue in my opinion. They can make custody arrangements if they want to, but it does not do anyone any good (including the child, who no longer gets to see his father!) for them to go on living like this.
     
    In my case, I asked myself, one, do I want to live with this man, just the two of us in the house, after the children have moved out? (it was getting close to that point for us.) And two, do I trust this man to have my back when I’m old, sick, disabled, no longer able to work etc etc. If and when I need support, will his presence make my life easier or harder? better or worse? See, this is Ann’s problem as I see it. While her husband gets a ton of support from her, I do not see him showing her any support in any way whatsoever. Sure, he calls her to ask how she’s doing, but if the only answer he would accept from her is “I’m doing okay”, and he throws a fit any time she answers him differently, what kind of support is this? Sorry, I have very little patience with this kind of men.

12. julie 12

    I agree, try marriage counseling, if he won’t change a bit then you must move on because it won’t get any better most likely and your only in your 30′s one time.

13. Fiona 13

    Ann, sorry that you are unhappy. However you decide to resolve this, I hope that things get better for you.

14. Dawn 14

    I know how she feels, and I know what she’s doing. She’s looking for someone to support her decision.  She’s looking for someone to give her permission.
    I get it. I did it….until no one would, and I had to make the decision on my own.
    I left a good man. He’s still a good man.  He was not a good husband or partner.  It took me 17 years to finally leave, and I was miserable (with the marriage) nearly the entire time.
    It’s hard for a woman to leave a “good” life and a “good” man.  People will not understand, people will call you selfish, they will say you are stupid and question why you did it.
    You have to do it…you only have ONE life.  If you are not satisfied, if you are miserable with this union, you need to get out. You need to own it, and do it without anyone else’s permission.
     

15. Angie 15

    I think it is important that both members of a relationship prioritize the needs of “us” as much as they prioritize their own needs.  I think Evan nailed it on the head by saying that your husband is a good guy, but a bad husband.
     
    I personally think the most important factors in coupledom are:
    1. Prioritizing the needs of the relationship as equal with one’s own interests.
    2. Sexual compatibility. (Although, with this, does come being able to express one’s own needs and not just blaming the other person).
    3. Life goal compatibility.
    4. Friendship / Liking and respecting the other person for who they are.
    5. Commitment to being committed.
     
    OP, it seems like your husband doesn’t have his priorities straight, and it seems like you’re just asking Evan permission to bail?  The posters that are suggesting counseling may be onto a good track, if you are ambivalent that leaving is the right answer either.
     
    You may also want to make note that John Gottman labeled “defensiveness” ( a word you’ve used to describe your husband multiple times) as one of the “Four Horsemen” of the relationship appocalypse.
     
    Here is something I found on google: http://foundationrestoration.org/2011/06/the-four-horsemen-defensiveness/
     
    The best thing you can probably do is speak in “I” statements. “I” need more quality time together, etc.  This may not work, though, if he automatically just flips back on you that “you don’t understand what it’s like to have a child”.  It requires a lot of maturity and forgiveness, because if he says this, it isn’t fair.  It’s really just one-upping you with something irrefutable: his child’s well-being.  I don’t know.  I’d almost take that to mean his priorities are his child (ok, fair enough) but your most basic desires will never be on par with that.  Is that true, OP, because I know you painted a one sided picture, which is fair enough as well.
     
    But, you also seem trained.  If you took vacations, then in the past year he did a switch and refused to do anything, he’s in the right.  But maybe you just got into this relationship without a good sense of your own needs.  I think it’s silly that as Amy, #5, pointed out, people would rather compromise who they are to fit into some societal ideal. 
     
    I read Gottlieb’s book as well, but I think she failed to talk about “dealbreakers”.  If your dealbreaker is “needs to spend time with me” then THAT is fair.  If it’s “our relationship needs to be a priority” that is fair.  If your dealbreaker is “He needs to not be defensive and fight fair” that is fair.  I think what you did right is that you did not dismiss him for being of a different race or for being a single dad, but Gottlieb doesn’t say “Give up your needs”.  The message I got from “Marry Him” was “Compromise your ‘list’, date outside your ‘type’, and don’t write someone off for petty reasons outside of their control”.

16. BeenThruTheWars 16

    I did the much same thing as the poster, when I was 24.  I naively thought that the most important thing in a marriage was to have a husband who was at least as intelligent as I am (top 1% of IQ range, so not easy to find). I knew when I married him that I wasn’t sexually attracted to him (he was a virgin at 28 when I met him) but figured that “I’d surely grow to love him” and could maybe teach him how to be compatible in bed. What I ended up with was a totally sweet, loyal, well-intentioned husband who was always physically there in the house with me, but was never THERE for me, because he lived 100% inside his brain. He had no idea how to connect emotionally with me or anyone else. He was a wonderful provider, super-respected at work, and we had a great time watching the Chicago Bulls rise to greatness and going on vacations to national parks; we also loved to read together and were nerds in general, shared the same politics and tastes in music, but that is where the commonalities ended. He worked normal hours in the same industry as I, but his hobbies!  He played endless hours of postal chess (international master); was in three fantasy baseball leagues (two National and one American league), which meant that he spent hours and hours watching baseball on TV; and ran marathons, so was always training and doing 18-mile runs on Sundays.  What do these three hobbies have in common? They are mostly solitary.  So unlike the poster here, I had a husband who was ALWAYS home, had no problem spending money or going places, had no expectations as far as kids or housework went, got along great with me, and was a terrific husband on paper… except for the lack of sexual or emotional connection (oh, yeah, those).  We were the best roommates ever, for over ten years.  Then I started having dreams about “starting over” (buying a new house alone, going back to new student week at college alone).  I ate myself into 220 pounds on a 5’4″ frame before I realized I had never been so profoundly lonely in my life. So I can totally relate to the poster here, but just want to point out it’s not a man’s physical presence that makes or breaks a marriage. We were divorced after 12+ years together, and then I went on to a man who was his total opposite in so many ways… some good and some not-so-good… so if you do separate, careful with those rebounds, they can be real killers. And my ex? He remarried quickly and we email about politics all the time.  So at least the friendship and cerebral connection survived, which is about all there was between us in the first place.  As Evan says, “Caveat emptor.”

17. Nadia 17

    There’s nothing like separation to make someone ponder their choices thus far. You could certainly live apart and see a counselor if he is willing to make changes. Frankly, Ann, you’re too young to sign up for a life of this. Your needs are never going to stop being your needs. I wish there was a school that taught husbandry. My own experiences are similar: I always seem to date good men, but ones who don’t know quite how to be good partners. Good luck to you!

18. BeenThruTheWars 18

    @Jen #9, totally agree about Steve Harvey.  I tried slogging through his books, they are silly and unreadable.  I recommend “The Passion Trap,” which addresses one-sided relationships, which this certainly sounds to be.

19. Tasha 19

    I must say I agree with Evan. Essentially it is Ann’s fault she is in her predicament. I doubt her husband was any different than when they dated. He’s getting his needs met so he doesn’t feel there is a problem.  I once dated a guy that was Mr. Wonderful when he was chasing me. Once he knew he had me, he rarely called, stood me up on dates, and would never fully commit. Whenever he saw me trying to move on, he would try to swoop back in and become Mr. Wonderful again. The cycle continued until I finally ended it. At the end of the day I realized it was my fault for being in that “situation” for so long. I can’t tell someone to separate, but if you aren’t happy then what’s it all worth? Good luck to Ann in her decision. 

20. Karmic Equation 20

    @Jen 9
    @ KarmicEquation- why not recommend any of Evan’s books or tapes? Steve Harvey is a comedian (being nice with that title)  who’s been in the news for cheating on his wife. He’s certainly not anyone who’s book I’d be reading! 
     
    Evan’s books and tapes, awesome as they are, don’t have specific application to this particular problem…at least I don’t recall that off the top of my head.
     
    I found the Steve Harvey book useful in two ways…One was his first chapter defining the 3P’s of which, “Provider” was one. And other parts of the book, I said to myself, he’s off his rocker (e.g., wait 90 days for sex?!) — and yet other parts, I was neutral about.
     
    I don’t agree 100% with 100% of the books I read. What I do is internalize and apply the parts that make sense to my life and forget the rest.

21. Angie 21

    To Evan,
     
    I feel like I’ve known a few people who have had confusion with Gottlieb’s message, and while your website tends to stay positive and emphasize getting your needs met, I have met a good number of people (maybe 20% or so) who just don’t understand that if you AREN’T having your needs met, it’s a lose-lose.
     
    This is obviously a great example.
     
    Also, really enjoyed your email from this morning.

22. Karmic Equation 22

    I think androgynous brings up a good point. Did OP and hubby do all the things she’s complaining about them NOT doing NOW while they were dating?
     
    I mean, did they go dancing then? Was he more present? Did he spend weekends with her while dating?
     
    If the answer is no, he’s the same now as before, then the OP is being unfair. If he DID change, then OP should discuss this with him and hopefully they can work it out. Asking someone to change certain behaviors is easier than finding someone good to love. He’s a good man, but I believe he should be capable of becoming a good husband, if he loves her, he will try hard to modify his behavior to make her happier.
     
    There’s a saying, “Women marry a man expecting him to change after marriage and men marry women expecting that they won’t.” — The opposite is almost always happens. This is a case on point.

23. Liz 23

    Lori said to compromise on the things that don’t matter much.  What are the things that do matter much?  The emotional connection?  The real compatibility?  Do any of these matter much or is it just for me to figure out:  Allergy to cats, wanting to raise the child with a religion vs. no religion?  Not wanting to have your own kids?  I need to read her book.

    People don’t change.  While we were dating, I nagged my then fiancee about taking classes to finish his degree.  Then one day it just seemed to click, he seemed to change…fast forward after 3 years of marriage and him telling me that he finished his degree and was working, right before we were going to buy a condo, I found out that it was all lies.

    Ann is looking for someone to validate her gut feeling that it isn’t working. Ann, listen to your gut, validate yourself.  The most important relationship you have in life is with yourself.  Do you.  Don’t be hard on yourself; life is a journey figuring out who you are, what’s important to you.  Let him do him.  You’ve realized that what you’re looking for isn’t what he wants.  And that’s okay.

    Also, honestly, no one can work that much.  Have you verified this other work?  Seen his pay stubs?   Gone to his work?  Trust, but verify.  I also kept separate accounts with my ex.  That was one thing my priest was critical on.  When you get married, you become one therefore, you should merge accounts.

    Good luck and God bless. 

24. Angie 24

    @Liz 23
     
    Lori and some of the women in the book were excessive and shallow about reasons they did not want to date a man.  Lori was around 38-39 and a single mom, and there was a part of the book which featured Evan where he was guiding her through online dating.
     
    She was attracted to a younger guy’s profile, 35-36ish, who was an executive and a snowboarder, very good-looking and interested in women even younger than him (maybe 27-33?).  Evan bargained with her and said “You write to your guy and you write to a guy I pick for you (someone a few years older than Lori, who wore bowties) and whoever asks you out you have to go out with”.  Lori made fun of him for wearing the bowties.  Only Evan’s guy replied, and then Lori felt like a jerk when she realized that the bowties were left to him by his deceased grandfather, and he wore them more as a tribute than as a fashion statement.
     
    Also, Evan has said on his blog before he works with two kinds of clientele:
     
    Way-Too-Picky Women and Women who aren’t overly picky, but have a hard time picking “good partners.  He has also said the second category of women is much easier to work with.
     
    Lori’s book is also a play on Barry Schwarz’s “The Paradox of Choice”, also a good read. (Google “Maximizer vs. Satisficer”).  Lori’s book is more geared to Maximizers, the people who need the perfect everything, have a ridiculous “list” (Evan’s height or hair color examples), but are stressed out and never satisfied.  Satisficers have a list, but once they meet their needs they are happy, even if it wasn’t *exactly* what they were looking for.
     
    I’ve noticed some people have difficulty really knowing themselves, and only by knowing yourself can you distinguish between your needs, your wants, and your dealbreakers (and I even think, your flaws/incompatibilities).  I can’t really relate to Lori, but I have been in a reversal of this relationship, where I dated a guy like her.  I was objectively much better looking than he was and much more friendly and social, as well as considered talented at my work, which he admired.  But, overall, he kept wanting me to do silly things like display photos of him everywhere (Facebook, my desk at work) to “show him off”, he was embarrassed by my attempts at speaking French on a Paris vacation we took telling me that “French people think you’re an idiot”, etc, and I just felt that he didn’t want me.  If he NEEDED a French-speaking, photo-displaying lady, he could find her but she wasn’t me.  Even after we broke up, he tried to get back together with me, and being on the receiving end of that relationship, I was like “You don’t even like me. I’m not what you want”.  I can imagine men would feel very similarly if you implied they weren’t “good enough”.
     
    Lori, Evan or anyone else can steer you in the right direction, but you are going to match yourself.  I couldn’t relate to Lori.  There are many men and women out there like her, though.

25. Morris 25

    She’s already married and a child is involved.(Few years dating and a couple years married.  Most of that childs life.)  She owes it to her husband and step-child to try counseling first.  Give the guy a chance to change.(I don’t see much difference between learning to compromise to find happiness and learning to compromise to keep happiness.  SHE should have done the first better but hopefully HE can do the latter to keep this relationship from falling apart.)  If things don’t work or he doesn’t want to go to counseling she needs to leave him.  But yeah, it’s her fault for getting herself into this situation.

26. nathan 26

    It’s flawed to think people don’t change. We do. Sometimes greatly over the course of a lifetime. The problem in situations like the OPs is that the kind of change she needs isn’t going to come fast, if it ever comes. Overworking and patterns of defensiveness are tough to shake. And overall, the guy is going to have to let go of some of the cushy situation that Ann has allowed to develop. Like several others, I’m not optimistic. I probably wouldn’t have gotten married under those conditions. If you do choose couples therapy or something like it, and he actually goes for it, don’t expect overnight miracles. You have to decide if it’s worth the effort, and if you’re ok with gradual change or big changes with some setbacks.

27. Dagaz 27

    Oh boy. This story is exactly the illustration to the axiomatic “suffer IS the choice”. 

28. Leesa 28

    i was in this situation and thank god it was only for one year before he ran off with somebody else.  he was never home, blaming work and the need to make money for hte sake of his children. i was there when he came home to have sex with and get his needs met of having somebody there for him. he would call me daily – sometimes several times per day, tell me how much he loved me and missed me etc etc.  it was horribly painful.  he would get defensive when i tried to talk to him about spending more time together – there were always what seemed to be valid excuses.  but what i realise now is that the excuses and defensiveness were a means of trying to put me in my place – where he wanted me. he wanted a conforming doormat. and he would say what he needed to to get it – while getting what he wanted as well – which i found out – was going to the pub and chasing other women behind my back.  from this experience, i’ve learnt that you really don’t know who the person really is – especially when they are never around.  some guys will say whatever they have to to get THEIR needs met. they really don’t care what they are doing to the women. and the women hold on because they think they need to be understanding and supportive and feel selfish for demanding more time from a guy who just can’t give it because of their excuse to work for money to support their kids etc.  and his stingyness is just another red flag in my opinion. the guy i was with was stingy.  nightmare – i tell you.

    i would not be surprised at all if he was cheating on her.  the horrendous experience that i had has taught me so much. it was the worst and the best experience of my life. i did wonder after it finished why the hell i didn’t walk away earlier. at the time, i thought i was being too selfish if i wasn’t supportive of his need to work all the time.  before him, i was confused about what i should and shouldn’t accept in a relationship. but now, i am not confused at all. i really would rather be alone for the rest of my life, than be with a guy who “appears” to be a good catch, but whom is never there.  like i’ve said in other posts, i found out 6 months after he was gone that he was also cheating on his wife. so this guy was skilled in manipulating women to get his needs met. and i have to say, judging by ann’s story, i would not be surprised at all if this was the same type of guy … after all … i can’t see him doing a good job of caring for his child alone.

    anyways, i’d get out and not look back, and not waste another day of my precious life on a guy like this. he obviously doesn’t care about what she has to go through every day.

    now that i am out of that sitation (it’s been a year and a half since it ended), i literally wake up every day and thank god that i am no longer in that situation and  swear that i will never do that to myself again.

29. Morris 29

    What’s up with the people telling her leave ASAP and implicating cheating?  What article did they read?  It’s no wonder divorce is rampant in this society.  No amount of dating advice is going to fix issues with people that jump to conclusions like that or advise people to leave without hearing the other side of the story.(Even though she even says he is nice guy.)

30. Great Girl 30

    Thankyou Evan for printing this question and your response.  Your answer has helped shed my light in my previous marriage and address the unmet needs of women like myself.

    What was most enlightening was your first point – Good men don’t necessarily make good husbands, nor great dads as a matter of fact.  I had conflated the two.

    I would like to share my stories with your readers. It’s just one woman’s story and doesn’t reflect everyone’s situation.

    While my ex-husband was a good man, he didn’t make a good husband. While I was able to be available to him when he wanted at his convenience and also look after the household and care for our children, he didn’t meet my needs for an emotional connection and more and more he concentrated on his work and was physically absent as well.   Emotional absence plus physical absence makes a wife feel very lonely and unloved.  When I delivered this message of feeling like not a priority in his life, he heard ‘ You are not good enough the way you are. I am dissatisfied.’  Instead of tackling the issue at hand, he stonewalled because he took it personally.  It’s a slippery slope when husband and wife can’t discuss things openly with love and care.
    That’s when he decided to find someone else who would admire him (in the workplace for his prowess at work).  They had an affair, he left.  They are now married. 

    All his needs are being met, he found someone else to admire him. Our children are taken care of by me (he keeps visitation to minimum).  He works to his heart’s content and is admired by his work community.  His new wife is supportive of his schedule and his attention level.  He is a good provider and provides for our children.

    I was devastated by the betrayal but now can see that I am now free to look for someone who will meet my needs. It took some time to travel on this journey and come to a point of peaceful understanding. But now I know I will not choose a workaholic as a partner. I know it will not satisfying for me.

    You are right, Evan. As a general rule, people don’t change. Some might do so if they have an epiphany but let’s face it, it’s rare and can’t be counted upon.  I am no longer the woman who tries to change her man’s values (from work-oriented to family-oriented). I will go to find a family-oriented man who balances work, family, fun.  I tell my dates, money doesn’t impress me.  

    One recent date sent me a video of him playing his guitar for me, it brought tears to my eyes because it was EXACTLY what I asked for.  I told him, “I have been given dinners, overseas trips and diamonds but your gift is the most special I have ever received.”

31. Mickey 31

    Question: if the situation had been reversed, how many people would have been sympathetic to the husband? Or would the more likely knee jerk response be to automatically blame the husband as the villain of the piece?

32. Ruby 32

    Does this man work during the week, and then on weekends as well? It seems odd to me that he leaves at 6am every Saturday and Sunday, and is not back until dinner or later. I too, would be suspicious of Mr. Workaholic’s whereabouts on these weekend jaunts. Doesn’t he want to spend any quality time with his wife and child? Five years together, and they’ve never been on vacation except for the honeymoon? He “works” constantly and is cheap to boot? She can try marriage counseling, but this relationship DOES suck. And if the genders were reversed, I would be suspicious of the wife, and still think the marriage wasn’t good.
     
    As far as Lori Gottlieb’s book is concerned, I haven’t read it, but the subtitle always bugged me: “The Case For Settling For Mr. Good Enough.” It’s one thing to compromise, it’s another thing to settle. It’s one thing to want to be married, it’s another thing to ignore all the red flags because you are single at – horrors – the advanced age of 30. Perhaps I’m wrong, and Ann misinterpreted the book’s message, but you don’t base a life-changing decision on the advice of one fear-mongering book.

    (Ed. note – The publisher came up with the subtitle to generate controversy. The author wasn’t pleased. But the book made the NYT Bestseller list. The lesson, as always: Don’t judge a book by its cover.)

33. Great Girl 33

    @Morris in answer to your question, if it was a husband complaining about an absent wife – first of all, a lot of people would be up in arms over an absent mother who has her husband (a non-parent) doing most of the child-minding.

    The tone of your question would imply that if it was a man thinking about leaving an absent wife, then people would not be so sympathetic.  As an advocate of trying everything before ending a marriage,  an absent spouse is an absent spouse – the OP stated that she feels like a room mate that has sex with her husband.  Either way, if man or woman, if one person is dissatisfied and speaks up and not getting any cooperation, acknowledgement or in any way work towards an amicable solution, then it’s time to re-think the compatibility of this partnership.

    She can’t work on this marriage herself, marriage is a 2-way street.

34. Helen 34

    Great Girl #30, you ARE great. In the face of betrayal, you’re forgiving and acknowledging the role you may (or may not) have played in your ex-husband’s actions, and seeing the positive in the negative.  Best wishes to you.

    I do agree with Morris #29 that we don’t have enough evidence that the husband in this story is cheating. Even so, this is a terrible marriage! The point is that he is never there, and does not make his wife a priority in his life.  To be honest, it sounds as though he married her so that he could offload his parental responsibilities onto her.  It’s rather crass that he offloaded pretty much 100% of childcare.  Crass both to the wife and the poor son.  No, he is not a great guy.

    The OP should leave the relationship, and not feel guilty about splitting or completely relinquishing custody.  This “marriage” is nonsensical.

35. Joe 35

    @ Ruby: yeah…sounds a bit like this guy has a second woman or family somewhere.

36. Goldie 36

    @ Morris #29 — I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s cheating, he could be out fishing with his buddies for all we know, but there’s definitely something suspicious going on. The man disappears for 12 hrs/day every Saturday and Sunday, says that he’s working, cannot describe his weekend work (“trying to sell anything” is not work), and has no money to show for it as far as I can tell (their accounts are separate so Ann cannot see how much he has, and he’s keeping his expenses to a minimum, so there may not even be any extra money to begin with).
     
    @ Mickey #31 – I honestly cannot imagine a situation where the roles are reversed, i.e, a single mother with a preschool-aged son marries a man with no children, hands the care of her child, plus all housework, over to her new husband, and disappears, coming home only to sleep, eat whatever her husband has cooked for her, have sex, and tell her husband to stop complaining because he doesn’t understand how difficult it is to have a kid, and that she has to work and make money for the family — all this while giving her husband no access to her money and telling him they cannot spend any time or money on vacations, going out, and such? On what planet would a mother actually do this? In the unlikely case that she did, yes I would be outraged.
     
    Anyway, like I said, it won’t hurt for Ann to suggest counseling. I did suggest it to my ex. Something tells me she’ll get the same answer I did… “no way”.
     
    @ Great Girl #33: “She can’t work on this marriage herself, marriage is a 2-way street.”  & Helen #34: “This “marriage” is nonsensical.” — This *1000.

37. Michelle 37

    I think the book she needs to read is, “ Women Who Love Too Much: When You Keep Wishing and Hoping He’ll Change” by Robin Norwood. It’s nice to be positive and hope for the best. But men do not change without them wanting to. And as Evan has advocated for a long time, you either accept him as he is or you don’t. You see a lot of women who date men who are either workaholics, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc, think that with their love and affection, they will stop being the way they are. So when things get bad, we end up doing more. And it just back fires. Loving these trype of men almost becomes an addiction in itself, when in reality it’s not a healthy relationship at all. I highly recommend the book.

38. Ann 38

    I’ve always felt guilty for wanting to leave, so it’s a relief to read Evan’s response. Dawn’s right — lots of people will think I’m selfish. They might not be surprised — everyone in his family knows about his insane work habits — but they’ll probably think I’m not in touch with the “real world,” where people simply need to work their ass off to survive. It will also break my mother’s heart, who’s a devout Catholic and doesn’t believe in divorce.

    I agree it’s my fault. I did know what I was getting into. I had hoped it would change. I loved him, he  was saying the right things/promising to change after I attempted to break off the engagement four months before the wedding because of all the red flags, and I felt I had already “invested” years of my life with him.

    I remember Lori saying something about listing the top three things you want in a man, and if he had it, go for it. Mine were: 1) good morals/ethics (I figured a man like this won’t be abusive); 2) hard-working and financially independent; 3) not controlling. He met all three, was tall, dark, and handsome, I loved him, he was sweet, and so I went for it.

    Ours was definitely great chemistry with very little compatibility — I wish I had read Evan’s advice on chemistry vs. compatibility before we tied the knot. 

    To offer up some sort of explanation, my husband is deathly scared of going back to where he used to be. He grew up in the projects, clawed his way up. Abusive parents who were never around, grew up around gangs, drugs, etc. He managed not to die, go to prison, get involved in drugs (he doesn’t even drink), finish college on scholarship, and get a job where he’s been at for more than 10 years. But I think that fear never left him. As for stuff he sells, he buys them wholesale from New York (where he grew up) and sells them at a weekend flea market. He just puts his money up for emergencies (in case he loses his job or something).

    He does spend time with his son. He’s a great father, albeit too serious (he talks to his son about how he can die anytime and he–the son–has to “man up” because he won’t always be there for him). He’s very involved with his schoolwork, tries to spend every spare moment with him, worries about him and how he’s going to turn out all the time. They’re crazy about each other. We share parenting duties and expenses equally — homework, dropping him off/picking him up at school, going to PTCs, although I care for him on weekends and I cook all his meals. And since I’m self employed, I’m the one who’s often “on call.” He gives him baths and gets him ready for bed. 

    I’m actually falling out of love with my husband. He’s starting to speak again of changing things, of how now that there’s “structure” in our family life — meaning there’s routine with regard to chores, his son, the predictable way we handle bills (which is really me managing/paying for them and then him giving me half within the week), he has more time to focus on me. Gosh when I really think about it, it sounds like such a pathetic/dysfunctional arrangement =p

    I’ve heard this plan to change several times before — it was the same thing he told me when I tried to break off our engagement (at that time, he said that after three years of me adjusting to his schedule and helping him out, it was his turn to focus on my needs — never happened), and I think he’s saying it again because I told him quite honestly that I’m starting to fall out of love because he’s never around and when he is, he has no energy to bond with me. 

    If people don’t really change much, then I guess I don’t have much reason to hope? Plus I’m really tired of hoping.

    We’ve been to two counseling sessions — two different therapists, and for some reason he charmed them and then charmed me. He says all the right things — knows exactly what he’s supposed to do, admits to his mistakes, but doesn’t really change. And he only went to counseling because I paid and I scheduled it around what was convenient for him.

    I don’t really love him that much anymore. My therapist says he’s not surprised. He says it’s like saying you’re starving after not eating for a week.
     

39. Kathleen 39

    Ann 

    I can’t imagine how miserable this arrangement has been for you and how you’ve been able to tolerate this.

    Perhaps therapy is most valuable for YOU alone so that you can build your esteem and not sacrifice your life again for someone who leaves you abandoned in a “pseudo relationship”.  Im glad you are relieved with Evans powerful answer   You are young enough to start again and start taking active charge of your own life where you make decisions based on whats best for you, and not what others think .

    My ex husband came from a very similar background but being with me was always important to him.    

40. Morris 40

    @Great Girl #33 – I didn’t ask that question.
    I don’t disagree with the premise that she leave if things don’t change.  What irks me is the sympathy people have towards the woman that willingly put herself in this position and the accusations placed at the apparently ‘great’ man.(Just a lousy husband.)
    Here is how I read it.  By paragraph.
    We were raised differently and don’t see things eye to eye.  We don’t spend time together, even when we are together, because we have no common interests.  He’s a good man and I love him.  He reassured me we can make things work.(My added thoughts: He’s a good man.  Neither of them want to do what the other person is interested in.  They acknowledge issues, maybe mostly his issues, and need to work on it.)
    We’ve dated 3 years and married for 2.  I want to leave him.  I take care of his 6 year old son.  I’m attached to his son.(My added thoughts: She’s been dating him since the son was a year old baby.  If she’s attached to him image what his son feels for her.  Clearly there is an unfit mother somewhere in the picture.  But that also confirms what she says.  He’s a good man.  A man who wants to take care of his child.  Otherwise why not let the mother take him?)
    He’s hard working.  Works weekends.  Chooses to be at WORK on weekends.  When not at work he still tries to make extra money.  When not doing either he is at home on the phone trying to come up with ways to make MONEY.  He never spends any of the money.(My added thoughts: He’s been doing this since his son was a baby.  Since they’ve been dating.  So UNLESS he’s been cheating on her or he’s been hiding another family from her since the beginning can we PLEASE not accuse the man of cheating?  Seriously!)
    We never go out.  He doesn’t want to spend money even when I’m willing to pay half.
    He’s a GREAT guy.  He LOVES me and is VERY AFFECTIONATE.  ALWAYS treats me right.  But when we talk about the issues he get’s defensive.  His argument is that he has a son to worry about.  He didn’t grow up RICH.  He places his and his sons NEEDS before my WANTS.(My added thoughts: We don’t know what the issue is here.  But now we know SHE is from a wealthy family.  She places WANTS before NEEDS.  Instead of accusing the man of cheating I would argue that maybe he’s trying to create a better life for his son.  Maybe he’s trying to pay off debt.  Maybe he’s saving for a down payment for a house.  Maybe the public school system sucks and he’s saving to send his son to a private school.  If she’s wealthy why isn’t she chipping in more?  Why just offer to pay half when going out?  Clearly if paid for he is willing to go out as shown with the honeymoon.  I want to know what the MONEY issue is.  Something clearly doesn’t add up.  A man who work hard to earn some extra cash married to a woman from a wealth family…)
    He’s a great guy and I’m attracted to him but life sucks.  I feel like a roommate/nanny/sex partner.(My added thoughts: The baby was a year old when she started dating him.  Nothings changed so she was a nanny and sex partner before they decided to get married.)
    I married him after ready a book.(My added thoughts: Really?  And that’s what you took from that book?)
    So from my point of view we need more answers.  The only thing I can see based on this is that HE is a good man.  SHE is a good woman.  But they don’t make a good couple.  They probably shouldn’t have married but they did.  And a child she’s been practically raising since one is involved.  Can we be a bit more thoughtful before throwing out cheating and leaving ASAP?
    Try to work it out by counseling.  Unfortunately, if nothing changes it’s probably best to leave the situation.  But it was your fault for getting into the situation.  It’s not like the man change AFTER getting married.  The issues existed BEFORE getting married.  You lived with the issues for 3 YEARS before marring him.  I feel really sad for the child involved.

41. Morris 41

    Sorry for my last post.  I wish there was a preview button.  There should have been spaces between paragraphs to make it easier to read.  Not sure why they disappeared.

42. Fusee 42

    Ann, I’m really sorry you’re in this predicament. Regardless of your level of responsability, it’s still really unfortunate.
     
    You, Evan, and the other commenters are really educating me with this thread. I’m thankful of all of you for sharing your experiences.
     
    On one hand, I find relatively easy to compromise on small things, such as “external” factors like physical features, education level, income, etc. On the other hand, no one being perfect in character and in relationship skills, I’m wondering what makes it “good enough” to allow a successful relationship, and what minor weaknesses or shortcomings might lead to the kind of marriages Ann and other commenters describe.
     
    I find helpful that Ann gave an update and more information. It would be helpful if you guys could also give more details about the dating/courtship period that led to the disappointing marriage. Were you in Ann’s situation, hoping for a change after the wedding? Did some minor shortcomings become serious defects down the line? Did your spouse suddenly evolve for the worse?
     
    Any information and insight on these questions would help me a lot as I’m close to face the biggest decision of my life, and obviously scared of making the wrong choice.
     
    Regarding Ann’s situation. I believe that the vow of marriage is special. Divorce is certainly an option, but I think it should truly be a last-resort option (when there is no abuse), after everything has been tried multiple times. It’s not dating, when you can leave the relationship whenever you can’t take it any more. Sometimes people need more than gentle requests or even more than serious requests. It’s very tempting to stick to our personality patterns and avoid the suffering of confronting them. Vague promises and sweet talk buy time and if it looks like one can get away with it, why doing the real work of change?
     
    I’d suggest a much more in-depth discussion on how their marriage has reached a life or death turning point. Talking about the very real possibility of divorce and how it would look like if the marriage does not go through a complete remodeling might trigger more serious soul-searching. If it does not, even after multiple serious conversations and some more time, then I would conclude that there is no true love. When protecting one’s pride and sticking to one’s fears are more important than the legitimate needs of your spouse, it’s no true love. And it’s not a true marriage.
     
    Ann, I really wish you good luck. I hope your husband is going to wake up and give a real chance to your marriage.

43. Ann 43

    I don’t think my husband is cheating. He just really works all the time. But he can’t commit to anything. Morris, I am not wealthy. I GREW UP wealthy. I grew up in a place with maids, drivers, never had to do chores. My dad paid for everything. But I set aside what I was used to for him. Even before him actually, when I decided to strike out on my own. I cook and clean for him. I give his son baths, I do laundry, fold clothes, I learned how to fix the meals HE likes because he and his son can’t stand to eat the cuisine I’m used to. I made every effort to give him what he needs even though it’s very difficult for me.

    My needs? That we have a date night every week when he doesn’t answer the phone. Too much? That he takes me out for a date every COUPLE OF MONTHS. Has not happened. Our second anniversary just passed — no present, no date. When he does give me something, he buys it at the last minute from the Dollar Store. I don’t even really care about the cost — I care about the lack of thought and preparation that went into it. When we first started dating, I would take him out of town for his birthday and yes I would pay for it. He never did that for me. Never. On our first anniversary, we went to the beach, split the cost, just an overnight trip, and we had a huge fight because he wanted to spend half the day shopping at the outlet for his son. I love his son, but c’mon!

    I love this man. He obviously wants to give his son what his father never gave him. I know that. I understand that. But I’m a person too. I have needs as his wife. Understanding doesn’t cancel out those needs. They’re not wants. Wants would be wanting a big house and a new car and jewelry. Needs would be having him around, taking me out every now and then, and setting aside time dedicated to me w/o cancelling out at the last minute because someone called who wants to buy something.

44. Ann 44

    My biggest regret/fear if this doesn’t work out is the real possibility that I’ll never see my stepson again, and that he’ll be devastated. I love that kid to bits. He’s very attached to me. My husband admits it, that I’m the one who creates structure for his life. His mom is very irresponsible and doesnt’ pay much attention to him (he has two other younger kids, from two different guys) when he stays with her.

45. Kathleen 45

    P S  I think the only thing that might wake this husband up is immediately separating and based on the results of that in a specific timeframe filing for divorce.  iTs up to him to show how he’s changed based on actions if he wants to save this and perhaps its time for Ann to show by her actions she’s serious and has a backbone.

    I agree Ann enabled this situation completely. It seems she has always folded to his claims of change so he must know he can get away with the minimum effort to keep her in her housekeeping/ child care taker position. This husband also must know it is going to be next to impossible to find any other woman that would tolerate this type of arrangement.

     

46. Michelle 46

    I think you will also be devastated because you also sound very attached to your stepson. I think you focusing on your stepson has been a platform for you not to focus on yourself and your happiness, until now. I hope you find your own happiness in time. I think the best thing to do is take some time apart from your stepson and husband for now.

47. Ann 47

    I realize I just contradicted myself about never being out of town in the five years we’ve been together We have been a few times:

    1) I took him to a bed and breakfast for his birthday – I paid
    2) I took him to a city we’ve never been to and paid for the hotel for his birthday – I paid
    3) We went to Disneyworld for my stepson’s birthday – we split the cost
    4) We went to the beach for my birthday – paid out of credit card points out of my credit card (god, I’m so pathetic, ugh?)
    5) We went to the beach on our first anniversary, overnight – split the cost
    6) We went to Hawaii for our honeymoon — paid for by guests, but when he learned that the gift was cash, he tried to talk me into just cashing it out and splitting the money. Um, I said no.

    Looking back, I don’t know why I put up with all this. Insecurity? Denial? Love? All of the above? Still trying to figure that out…

    My husband is very charming. He’s very handsome. He can talk. He can tell you what you want to hear. That’s probably why I ignored the red flags at the beginning. Plus he just seems so earnest all the time, and I understand that he’s been through so much growing up.
     

48. Morris 48

    Ann.  I wish everything works out for you, your husband and step-child.  I hope you realize I was only commenting on your original post.  It bothered me that people jumped to ridiculous conclusions that wasn’t supported by your original post.  I felt we simply needed more information.

    Sorry I don’t sugar coat things for you.  I don’t find it helpful when people do.  You’ve since posted more and it seems your husband would have to do a lot of changing to make things work.  I wish he would for the sake of your marriage and his child.

49. Robyn 49

    When push comes to shove, what some one SAYS is meaningless.
    What they DO – their ACTIONS – is the true meaning / their true intent & what they really are.
    And this guy’s actions are saying (somewhat selfishly IMHO) “I don’t want to change my behavior so that my wife can be happy. So long as I am happy, that is all that matters”.
    Yes, he’s charming – he snowed Ann into agreeing to moving forward to marriage despite her reservations, and snowed 2 therapists into believing that he really would change his behavior.
    But he has not been able to make a genuinely consistent and permanent change. Which is really what is needed here.
    Ann – I was in a similar situation (luckily without the complication of a step-child) with my ex-fiance. He said he would do X, Y & Z – but could not consistently follow through. Yet I was expected to do a heck of a lot more than X, Y & Z so that he could be happy….
    After “postponing” the wedding (but he wouldn’t name a new date), breaking up & reconciling, trying counseling, yada yada yada, the situation still did not improve (actually it got worse), I had no choice but to leave. Had I married this man, I would have been intensely miserable and a divorce statistic waiting to happen.
    The only reason I’m not recommending that you “bail now & don’t look back” is that you do have your step-son to consider. But at the end of the day, you need to put your needs above his.
    YOU need to be happy, and truly supported, valued and appreciated by the man in your life. Which is not the case in your marriage right now.
     

50. Kathleen 50

    Im so sorry Ann 

    Im at a loss for why you feel he loves you

    Wish you the best  

51. Angie 51

    @Ann
     
    I just realized you were the OP.  I think the problem is that Gottlieb’s book is really a memoir on someone who was a dating failure trying to find a happy lovelife, and it is possible to extract advice from her journey, but she isn’t even close to a dating expert.  You shouldn’t have to cap off your “needs’ at three, just prioritize them, and realize which of them are needs vs wants and which you could compromise or live without, and also what flaws you can’t do without.
     
    Moving forward, I wouldn’t do anything out of guilt, and don’t feel shame for buying into promises.  Objectively, if your stepson’s mother is a mess, I can see why your husband may want to overcompensate as a parent, but at the end of the day, this doesn’t have anything to do with your marriage.
     
    If you decide that you want to separate/divorce, etc, you need to come up with a list of what you want (a role in your stepson’s life, etc), and approach it like an adult.  You husband sounds like he has figured out how to get everything he wants so I doubt he will ever shift the status quo.  Perhaps, he even noticed you’re naivety and eagerness to be “Miss Right” at the start of your relationship, and molded you into what he needs and wants, but a good partner would be concerned that he is Mr. Right to you.

52. Goldie 52

    To commenters saying Ann knew what she was getting into: She says they did not live together prior to marriage, so it was a different dynamics then. My former husband and I, too, didn’t move in together until three months before we got married. By the time we got married, I already knew that it was going to be bad, but thought it was too late to back out.
     
    After reading Ann’s followup posts, I honestly think the two of them have done all they could and it’s just not working. And if you think this marriage is bad now, imagine it in 12 years, when Ann’s stepson leaves home and she finds herself trapped alone in the house, technically married to someone who’s never around, at 44. She deserves better than this. She only has one life and I honestly fail to see a reason why she should sacrifice it on the altar of this guy. I believe I’m qualified to say this, as someone who’s been in a similar marriage for 18 years, tried everything, tried to stick it out — sticking it out just enables the other side. It just sends them a message that whatever they’re doing, works, wife isn’t complaining, husband should continue doing what he does.
     
    Ann, you don’t know how your family will react. They may be more supportive than you think. Family friends is the difficult part, but since you don’t do anything together as a couple, I’m not sure if you as a couple have any family friends? In our case we had a lot. I have to say, most of them reacted the opposite of what I’d expected. People that I thought would turn on me, or be indifferent and stop communicating, were incredibly supportive. People that I thought would support me, let me down. It is a major test of who your real friends are.
     
    Since everyone is recommending books, here’s the one that worked for me: Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum. It is laid out like a questionnaire where you analyze your marital issues and determine whether they are deal-breakers or not, whether they can be worked out or not, whether the two of you will be happier together or separate. Maybe Ann’s husband will benefit from the divorce too in the long run. Right now in his mind, he’s working his ass off to provide for his family and his wife only nags him in return — he’s probably puzzled and frustrated. I understand that his previous relationship has not worked out, either. Some people are just better off on their own than in a marriage. Maybe he’s one of them. Nothing wrong with it; I don’t plan on remarrying, either.
     
    I do not know whether it is possible for Ann to get partial custody of her stepson, but it is definitely worth checking into if she’d like that. By the way, Ann and her husband wouldn’t be doing the poor kid any favors by sticking it out for his sake. Not only would he be unhappy growing up in a dysfunctional environment, he will also have a negative family pattern in front of his eyes that he will likely repeat when he has a family of his own.
     
    This is a very sad situation. Divorce is incredibly stressful for all involved. But I honestly fail to see another way out, especially since they seem to have already tried and failed. Hope that I’m wrong. Good luck.

53. Alexandra 53

    I absolutely agree with Evan that this is Ann’s fault. She admits being aware of many red flags a few months short of the wedding and even breaking off the engagement, but going back to it because of the “sunk costs”. Like many women, she believed (maybe unconsciously) that marriage was going to change the relationship for the better. It does not. A workaholic boyfriend will become workaholic husband. An emotionally distant boyfriend will become an emotionally distant husband. A rocky courtship will become a rocky marriage.
    Presumably, three years of dating should be sufficient to gauge whether two people have compatible personalities and shared values. Ann clearly ignored some major flaws in their relationship and some warning signs, starting with his childhood. I’m no psychologist, but I would think that someone who grew up in the projects around drugs and gangs, with abusive parents and with no positive role model, will have a more difficult time forming a stable, lasting and healthy long-term relationship. This is not to say that it cannot be done, but rather, that it will be a long and tough road for him.
    Contrary to most commenters, I believe people CAN change. However, an effective change can take place only if they feel they NEED to change. Also, changing/evolving is often a very gradual process that results from years of life experiences and circumstances. What I’m saying is that Ann’s husband is not going to change overnight because she wants him to, or because she expresses a dislike with his actions. That may get him to change for a very short period of time, but he will quickly revert back to his normal behavior.

    And finally, not to question Lori’s advice, but to “go for it” if a man meets a three-item checklist? Hum. Even if we accept this concept, Ann’s list had two negatives (“not abusive. not controlling”). And then the holy grail for women: tall, dark, handsome… Shouldn’t there be something more to a husband than someone who’s not abusive and not controlling? Someone who’s tall and dark? And on item #2, Ann says she wanted a husband who was hard-working and financially independent. She got him, didn’t she? Like Evan says, positive traits have their flips sides. You can’t expect your financially independent and hard working husband to come home at 5:30 and to spend every weekend with you. There is a price to pay with a driven, ambitious and wealthy partner. 
    I do not mean to criticize Ann for her reasoning and choice in partner. What I’m saying is that many women, myself included, have made (or are making) the same mistake, the mistake of picking a man for the wrong reasons, or investing in the wrong qualities. Unfortunately, we do not learn these important lessons in school.
    This sad situation should be a warning bell for readers who hear their inner voice say “noooooo!” when they think of marrying their partner. Personally, I dated a man who was wrong for me on so many levels, for ten long months, because I ignored that inner voice. The best decision I have ever made in my life, and I hope Ann hears me, is that I broke up with him, went back on Match, and five weeks later met the love of my life. Like Dr. Phil said, the worst thing about being in a bad relationship for six months is being in a bad relationship for six months and one day.

    There is a difference between being unsure because the spark is missing, and being unsure because deep down, something about the relationship just feels wrong. I’m sorry Ann has to go through this. If she chooses to leave, the goods news is that she is still young so she has good chances of later finding a suitable partner who meets her needs.

54. Leesa 54

    Ann, how you describe him reminds me so much of that guy i was involved with. he was charming – i called him the “golden boy” because my parents did more for him than me. he knew what was right, how to make our relationship better etc etc etc (because he would say it all), and that’s how i guess i stayed for a year. because every time i was thinking how shit the situation was (with me all give and him all take), he said everything to make me feel that i was selfish for needing more from him – and that i wasn’t being understanding of his situation. but often he wasn’t getting paid for hte hours he worked – then he said: it’s just part of this job and he has to do it.  and he knew exactly what to say – he had the right answer for everything. but i didn’t realise that it was all manipulation until after he hooked up with this other women … then he was still saying that he loved me and that they were just friends and that she was just somebody to talk to bla bla bla. it was horrible. it was only then that i saw what he had been doing all along…. saying what he needed to to get me to do what he wanted me to do.
    your husband has a vested interest in keeping  you as his house maid/nanny/sex object.  
    with the guy i was involved with: i remember one of my friends asking me if i thought he might be chasing other women and i said …” no way, he’s not like that”. i honestly thought that i had the most honest, loyal, devoted guy.  that’s why i cried for 8.5 months after it ended, i was so confused about what had happened … i couldn’t make sense of all his actions. until i found evan’s website. then i read all evan’s blog posts (every single one he ever wrote on his blog) and slowly, i started to understand why that guy had said and done all the things he did.  he knew what was right, he just didn’t do what was right. he used what he knew was right to manipulate everybody around him into doing what he wanted them to do.  and he said he’d had a difficult childhood and had made good of himself. if guys like him did have a difficult childhood, they tend to learn mal-adaptive interpersonal skills – like manipulating others. at least now i’ve come to believe that from my experience with that guy.
    your husband will try hard to keep you until he finds somebody else. i’d bet you good money that if you do leave, you’ll find out through your step-son very quickly that he has hooked up with another women.  he is charming, handsome, seems to have high moral values … knows exactly what to say. there will be women lining up to walk into your shoes, and so you should let them. all that glitters is not gold. then i imagine you’ll wonder, as i did, why you stayed for so long, how could have you believed that he really loved you, how you wasted 5 years of your life serving a user, who is now sleeping with somebody else and putting all his “love” and energy into another women. i thank god every day that i only wasted one year of my life with that guy. and i also realised this: just because i’m smart, pretty, fun, easy going, good with money, and what i consider to be “lovable”, it doesn’t mean that every guy is going to love me.  and i’ve learnt from evan that guys don’t think like i do. some think and feel more like women, but they are in the minority.  now, more than anything, i watch what men do and not what they say. and since that guy, i’ve met guys who are totally into me, who make good money etc etc etc, but one in particular has a history of womanising. so i’ve also learnt that even if they are totally into you, it doesn’t mean they’ll be a great long term partner (i didn’t go for him thank god). anyways, that’s my 50 cents worth.

55. Robyn 55

    @Goldie –
     ”Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay” by Mira Kirshenbaum is a superb book. It was one of the books I found when I was going thru the epic “should I stay or should I go” with my ex-fiance.
    I also had a bit of the “sunk costs” syndrome because we’d known each other for 10 years (had been colleagues & platonic friends for 5 years before we’d progressed to a “romantic” relationship). And I hate to “lose a friend” – but I had to do it in order to save myself from a life-time of misery.
    And yes, even though we’d known each other for that long before we got involved, it was only when we were engaged & heading towards marriage that the “dirt” / difficult issues surfaced. Which is why I don’t believe in short engagements / rushing into marriage. It’s a lot easier to end an engagement / call off the wedding than going thru a divorce. Not to say that ending an engagement / calling off the wedding is “easy” or “painless” – because it’s still an emotional divorce.

56. Henriette 56

    Ann – I’m sorry and send you big hugs.  This sounds like a terribly difficult situation.
     
    I believe your husband does love you and is a good man.  I don’t think it’s bad that you paid for the out-of-town trips; if you’re the one who wanted to travel, why NOT take full financial responsibility?  I even think that he will be an excellent husband to someone who feels love in the way that he’s able to show it (putting financial stability ahead of romance, being a responsible dad, etc).  However, that “someone” is not you.  
     
    You have tried talking, pleading and counselling.   I think this is more about essentially incompatible personalities than about changing little behaviours. 
     
    I don’t like the implication several posters here have made, that “it’s Ann’s fault so she should lie in the bed she made.”  I don’t care whose “fault” this is; the fact of the matter is that it’s an unhappy marriage that probably cannot be much improved.   Even if it were 100% your “fault” (and I do not believe this), that would be no reason to stay in a miserable situation.
     
    As for your step-son: the divorce will be very hard for both of you.  However, he will eventually understand that even good people should not marry if incompatible and that’s a pretty valuable lesson for anyone to learn at any age.

57. David T 57

    @Ann 
    Stop beating yourself up.  You will become angrier at yourself and at him and that will not serve anyone well.  Don’t go there for your stepson’s sake. The situation is what it is and it does not matter how you three got there. What matters is what happens from today onward.

    It sounds like he is a good man, and that he does not value your feelings and needs; at least is not willing or maybe able to do things just for the sake of making you happy. Good man but bad partner, if you want someone besides a business partner.Something has to change or the marriage will fail.  You might already be past that point.
     
    If you do continue counseling (you have only been twice, so it might be worth continuing for a while) ask the counselor to help the two of you to set up an change plan and that he promise to abide by it. Sounds like he over-values money (he does not sound rational about it, frankly)  and will not likely ever spend a bunch on you, but there are creative low cost ways he can express his love. It sounds like time and devotion and focus on you would go a long way for you.

    Make it clear in counseling that the marriage will end if you don’t begin feeling loved instead of just appreciated by him. His making that promise to the change plan and following through is part of that. One no-phone-night a week and one date night a month is a good start. Maybe throw in one weekend all day outing for the three of you once a month too. Whether your smiles and happiness become important to him, so that he wants to plan ahead, and takes delight in thinking about how pleased you will be as he does, is another thing, but that might come if you two start doing some of things happy couples do and he takes joy in your pleasure.

    Your stepson surely loves you and his Dad a great deal.  If you need to end the marriage, make it clear, maybe starting in the counseling sessions now, that you intend to stay in the boy’s life for his sake.  As long your stepchild knows you love him and you have the opportunity to demonstrate maternal love, that will go a long way to him not being devastated.  His Dad will still need someone to look after him on weekends.  Maybe he would let you have him a couple of weekends a month. I hope he does not try to use your devotion to his child as leverage to keep you around, because I predict he will greatly fear losing you and that might drive him to extremes.  If he goes there, make it clear that that will only hurt his son, but it won’t stop you from making the changes you need to make in your life. 
     
    Blessings and peace.

58. Ann 58

    Thank you so much Evan and everyone else who’s weighed in on my situation. I really appreciate your perspective and advice. I am in no way offended by many of you saying that I got myself into this situation. I did. I knew what I was getting myself into. I just believed that it will change, and soon. I believed because I wanted to believe, because he’s always been really earnest in his “plans” to change, and because I was already “there” and had “invested much” in the relationship.

    Like I said my husband is a really good man. I will never tell anybody otherwise. But yes, he’s not a good husband. I think part of it is because he grew up around men who cheated on their wives, beat their wives up and yet came home to a clean house and hot meal. So for him, the fact that he doesn’t hurt me, doesn’t cheat on me, and holds a steady job that allows him to cover half the expenses is something I should be immensely grateful for. And I am. I am grateful that he is that kind of person. But I need more than that. I need more than structure. I need someone I can bond with, share my life with.

    I think it’s really about how incompatible we are. And how he takes me for granted, consciously or subconsciously. He tells me all the time — I keep forgetting you’re not from here (I’m an immigrant) and that it’s difficult for you to adjust to all this and not have your family anywhere nearby, or anything else you’re used to. He tells me I’m a  good wife, and that he’s lucky to have me. He expresses his appreciation for me. And I’m grateful for that. But they’re just words, and over time, broken promises (there are so many) and actions that contradict the words just make the words seem meaningless.

    Goldie, I did read Mira Kirshenbaum’s Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay. I passed all the diagnostic questions until I got here, and this is what really struck me as simple truth when it comes to him:

    “If you think negotiation from hell is a problem–and it is–watch out for the negotiation that’s ‘like butter.’ Few things make it feel harder to get your needs met than the partner who agrees to what you want but then just doesn’t keel agreements. This is where the issue of trust comes up in relationships. You trust people who do what they say they’re going to do. When they don’t, the relationship is not only a place of fighting and deprivation, it’s a place of betrayal. Not only are not safely at home there, but it’s a scary alien world… if all we’re talking about is taking out the garbage, it’s no big deal, but a pattern of easily overlooked broken trust is just as deadly to your sense that you can get your needs met as a huge betrayal that slaps you in the face.”

    It’s been almost a year when I just take it for granted that when he says he’s going to be with me at 7pm, that he won’t get there until 8pm, or that if we make plans to spend the day together, that we’ll take several detours because he got calls from people who want to buy something, and I’ll be waiting in the car while he talks to them and shows off merchandise in the trunk of the car. I don’t get mad anymore because I’m so tired of fighting. It’s just a numbness. I’ve fought and fought, cajoled, compromised, accepted.

    Anyway, you’re right that what’s done is done, and I can only move forward. Thank you again to everyone for sharing your thoughts and perspectives. I’m learning a lot from them.

     

59. Liz 59

    @Angie, Thank you for taking the time to write a response to me–I really appreciate it!  Grazie mille!

60. Lurking 60

    Ann; Let me re-cap He is getting ALL his needs met (all day every day) and you get NONE of yours met (for years on end). His actions (passive aggressive, abusive, absent in the important relationships) do not match his words “I’m a great guy”. He came to you with a sob story about a tough background, did you verify it? He is charming (manipulative?) and was attracted to you because you are sweet and empathetic, and Catholic, which means he knew  you will put up with A LOT.   It is REALLY STRANGE to be gone all weekend every weekend, with no plausible explanation, have you hired an investigator or had a friend follow him? Serious red flags. Lots of questions.  You might find an answer here;http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2010/04/12/10-signs-that-youre-dating-a-sociopath/

61. marymary 61

    Ann
    this is more serious than I thought and the red flag to me isn’t what you think it is. It’s the “charming” part. This  is a bugbear of mine, having dated the consummate charmer.
    as lurking says, it,s about manipulating you.
    by all means enjoy a man or woman,s charm at a social function for an hour or two.  But don’t get it confused with good intentions, the ability to follow through, reliability. It,s a snow job. Sometimes these charmers just say things to shut you (or your therapists up).
    my boyfriend is kind and reliable. i see him often. When he comes over he insists on doing housework. He didn’t contribute to the mess as he never stays over (yes in the 21st century some of us are still waiting for marriage to have sex ). He has never charmed me or seduced me. At first i found it weird and wondered if he even fancied me but I realise now he will not say or promise anything that he can’t back up with action. he does compliment me now though but it,s not to get anything from me. 
    It,s not your husband,s working hard which is your real problem. You can’t believe what he says so you can’t trust him. Without trust you have nothing.

62. nb 62

    Not that it’s excusing his behaviour, but it sounds like the husband has some major issues about growing up poor, and his overwork is trying to compensate, to ‘never be poor again’. Maybe if the OP addresses the problem through this issue there might be a chance to work on it and fix it (if he’s willing to look deep within himself).

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