I Want to Take a First Date to Lunch During the Work Day. Why Is This a Terrible Idea?
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Just by taking a little time to make a woman comfortable – a few emails, a couple phone calls – Matt can earn the right to pick her up at her place for a Saturday night date. The same exact woman who would otherwise insist that a first date meet her at a coffee shop. If you doubt me, I have a few hundred examples suggesting otherwise. Slowing down really does result in better first dates.
But you already know this, Matt. Thus, your real dilemma is in figuring out what a good date looks like for you. And that’s personal. For some people, the ideal date IS coffee/lunch. A quick meeting to determine basic physical chemistry. Well, if that’s the case, then you don’t need my advice. Find a place that’s mutually convenient, well-lit, and inexpensive. Ask questions. Pick up the check. You’re all set.
So what’s wrong with disco bowling and beer on a Friday night? What’s wrong with mini-golf on a Saturday afternoon?
My question to you is this: do you LIKE lunch dates? Low stakes, low price, low romance, “I have to be back in my office in an hour” interview type scenarios? God knows, I always HATED such dates. And if you find them lame and you want your first meeting to have a bit of a spark, you have to work backwards from how you want your date to end. For me, ending on a kiss was important. Thankfully, you’ve already earned enough equity with her to take her on a real date that doesn’t involve a midday break.
So what’s wrong with disco bowling and beer on a Friday night? What’s wrong with mini-golf on a Saturday afternoon? What’s wrong with night-time appletinis at a speakeasy on Saturday night? What’s wrong with taking her hiking (or sledding?) on a Sunday afternoon?
None of this is formal. None of this is high pressure. None of this is terribly expensive. None of this means you’re locked in to six hours together. All this establishes is that you’re a man with a plan. A little creativity and atmosphere goes a long way in setting the TONE of the first date.
And if I have any objection to coffee/lunch, Matt, is that it is the wrong TONE for romance. It’s the wrong tone for laughter. It’s the wrong tone for anything but an interview that assumes failure. You don’t set up a half-hour $3 date if you think it’s going to go swimmingly well.
Take it from a guy who has gone out with hundreds of women:
If you treat her special, she’ll be special.
If you show her a good time, she’ll have a good time.
If you give her a chance to shine, she’ll have a greater opportunity to shine.
And if you want to get a kiss, you’re much more likely to get it at night. I have not once had a great date at the Coffee Bean or Quizno’s or Jamba Juice or the Daily Grill. It could be just coincidence, but the sample size is large enough to conclude that certain settings are more conducive to romance than others.
Be the generous guy who really wants to show her a lot of fun, and I’ll bet you have a lot of fun, too.
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83 Comments »Filed Under Dating
Marc 1
I’m a big believer in the theory that if a chick is into you, she’ll be into you at Starbucks or at the most expensive restaurant in town, or at a bowling alley, or on a hike in the woods. But given that Matt has already invested so much time in this woman, and is essentially already in a relationship with her without having yet met her, it would be best to take her on a “real” date as Evan suggests.
Marc´s last blog post…Getting Their Kirk On
mic 2
Another reason it’s a bad idea. Even if nobody is stressed from work, the people probably are dressed for work, with its often unsexy associations and not most flattering looks.
Maria 3
Great advice Evan (as usual!!) I can only speak from the female perspective. A first date is REALLY important. I tend to take the man’s lead on where he wants to take me. Therefore, I have had enough Starbucks and Jamba juice to last an eternity. The men I have given a real priority to (just a handful), have put time and effort into our first date. Think about doing the best you can to create an alluring, captivating first date…because you just never know. If you treat her like “well, it’s just a first date or a first meet”, that will definitely come accross during the course of the date. If you never treat her special…she won’t be. Put another way, if you knew in advance that you would be meeting the love of your life…would you still meet her just for lunch? Make each date and moment count, because you just never know. Be selective (which it sounds like you are), and that will avoid the “OMG another first date to wine and dine and nothing will come from it” scenerio. Romance her, have fun, and Good luck!
Jennifer 4
Evan’s suggestions are ideal, but even drinks after work would be 100 times better to me than a mid-day lunch date.
casualencounters.com/blog 5
Couldn’t agree more. And don’t get me started on “movie dates”. That stuff is DEATH to anything interesting happening. I mean they’re virtually an act of self-sabotage.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 17 Spicing up sex: Toys, Food and Fantasy
kat 6
I do everything I can to avoid the dreaded coffee date and, if I can’t get the guy to consider another option, I politely beg off. Its just not worth it…..before I learned this I met at least two men on coffee dates who, if we had met in another setting, I am convinced could have turned into something — at the very least a second date. I didn’t get second chances with those men and I believe it is solely because of the “ambiance” (or lack thereof) of our first “date”. Plus, I don’t like coffee
Sheryl 7
All great Evan except for the hiking/sledding idea. I’m not getting in a car at the beginning of a date or going to a remote location alone with a guy that I haven’t met and spent time with in person. I’ve had plenty of introductory first emails from men asking me to go off-roading, camping, hiking and to Paris and I get the same gut reaction every time – “Are you crazy?” Call it self-preservation or paranoid, I doesn’t give me the feeling that is getting me on a date. A walk in a busy park, that’s a different story. But I totally agree with you that the men who invest in getting to know me a bit before asking me out, who have a plan, who tell me something other than I’m pretty, and who plan something that is likely to end with a kiss (night helps)…but who don’t push for too much too fast are most likely to succeed.
Lance 8
I’m actually all for short coffee dates, but after reading this EMK makes a great case for why the quick lunch date would suck. They are pretty boring and sexless. If she’s already hooked, I say meet for drinks on Friday night. There are much more possibilities that way. Also, remember, it’s important to have FUN on a first date and not just do a Q&A.
Another point…when I’m at lunch from work, I’m wearing work clothes that totally don’t fit the attitude and image I project at night. Again, do drinks in the evening and sex it up.
Lance´s last blog post…Here’s How a Bankruptcy Works
Li-Ann 9
I agree that the atmosphere at a coffee shop may not be ideal, but I also feel that if this is the first time meeting a man, I usually know quite quickly whether I want to proceed or not.
And, if a woman walks in who is 30 lbs over what a certain man expected, it doesn’t matter to him just how great the last two months of emails were. He is going to see the next 2-3 hours at a romantic place as a chore, and maybe even a letdown. If he is the type who enjoys socializing and is lonely, perhaps he will enjoy the conversation, but I don’t know how many people fall into that category.
Therefore, although it is very nice and sweet to suggest a more romantic venue, it really isn’t going to make me feel chemistry when there isn’t any. So what happens is that it now puts you in an awkward position. If you are at a coffee shop and it is your lunch break from work, you have a great excuse to leave after an hour. If you are at a nice place sipping martini’s after work, it is more awkward to try to leave, as you no longer have a good excuse as it is now after work. And, if I don’t hit it off, or find the person even somewhat creepy (this happens), I really don’t want to spend an afternoon doing outdoor sports with them.
If the coffee shop is such a turnoff, perhaps a quick meeting in a park of something might be better. It can still be held during your office break, and that way you have an excuse for a quick exit.
Just because you really hit it off online, does not translate into a great first meeting. You certainly can pre-screen for the obvious problems, but there are still a lot of people who can come across wonderful online, and you can spend months chatting to them.
I guess both ways can work. If you don’t mind spending the time, fine, try a more romantic venue. I just don’t think it would work for me.
Sayanta 10
i will never go on a lunch date again simply because of the bad association I have with it- a few years ago I went out with this guy- he looked like a supermodel. I’ve always wanted to go out with a supermodel (yeah, I’m like a guy that way). Be careful what you wish for!
In the middle of our date, he starts slapping the table and singing Zeppelin out loud in front of everyone at the cafe! I wanted to die.
Needless to say, that was the first and last date.
Selena 11
I don’t think a work day lunch date is a terrible idea for the same reasons Li-Ann stated in #9. I don’t want to be committed to an activity for a few hours with someone if I get a strange vibe from them. And you know, if you do hit it off in person you can always suggest getting together again after work to pick back up your conversation.
Personally, I’d rather meet for a drink after work though when there wasn’t such time pressure and I’d be more relaxed. You can go to dinner from there if you hit off, and you can also change clothes before meeting if you want to.
Evan made great points though. If you’ve already done some ground work of getting to know each other, a more interesting date might go over better than a “meet and greet” type of one.
A-L 12
I’m not opposed to the coffee date as first date, but I don’t like the idea of a lunch date during a work day. I’ve never been on one (I get 30 minutes for lunch as I’m a teacher) but if I worked a regular job I’d probably have one hour. So if you meet somewhere close by then it might be 5-10 minutes each way to travel. So, say 20 minutes total to travel (get in/out of building to parking lot, drive, find parking, and get to restaurant). That leaves 40 minutes to get a table, order food, eat it, and pay. That is one heck of a rushed lunch, and I’d be more worried about scarfing the food down quickly and getting back to work on time than getting to know the person opposite the table.
A date that’s not in the middle of the workday, however, leaves it open to last for as long or as short as you want, but you don’t have the time constraints to give added pressure to the date. Most of the time if a date isn’t going well for one person, it’s not going that well for the other one and there won’t be a big scene because you want to cut the date short.
But if you want to be more creative, go on ahead. My first date with my boyfriend was going to play putt-putt and we had so much fun we added dinner in afterwards (during a major bowl game too; that’s how I knew he was smitten!).
casualencounters.com/blog 13
Li-Ann, don’t you think that’s really the sort of thing you should be honest about before meeting?
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 17 Spicing up sex: Toys, Food and Fantasy
Li-Ann 14
Casualencounters – sorry, not sure which part of my a bit too long post you refer to. I don’t think I’m being dishonest from what I can see, but I’m willing to be proven wrong.
Like any person, I can be excited about a person that I’ve never met nor seen, but am having a fantastic conversation with online. I can eventually meet them in person, hoping for the best, and find out the chemistry isn’t there. I have no way of knowing before I actually meet the person whether I’m going to feel interested or not.
If what you meant was that I should tell them I only want a short meeting, obviously, few people are going to say beforehand “I just want a short meeting with you in case it doesn’t work out”. People are just going to figure that is the way it is, and it goes both ways. After all, at the time of these great email conversations, before I have even met the person, I am hoping that our real life meeting will work out.
I chatted to one guy online for about a year on and off. We hit it off online, and we shared so many interesting discussions, but I never actually met him in person. In this case, I went into finally meeting him with tons of enthusiasm. It did not work out, he was very different in person. I still spent something like 3-4 hours chatting to him mid-day as I was on vacation at the time, so I didn’t cut him off or anything. I tried one more meeting with him, and it didn’t improve. I was never dishonest with him up to and before the meeting, it just didn’t work out.
In this case it happened to be me who wasn’t interested, but I’m sure that it could have been the other way around. I would accept it if a man met me, and I wasn’t what he wanted. I wouldn’t expect him to be honest and upfront and tell me that it was because of how I looked or something like that. We both get the message when subsequently I didn’t agree to any further dates.
I hope that explanation addressed the question.
starthrower68 15
LiAnn I like what you say in the last part of your post. If I am at first meeting with someone, and they’re not interested, unless they’re a really good actor, I will be able to tell and I don’t want to be stuck for an entire evening with a guy who doesn’t want to be there. I don’t like to waste time, so the lunch idea is good for simply moving on if it doesn’t work. And I know that if I don’t even get so much as a hug, that dude ain’t callin’ for a second date.
David Gideon 16
Don’t meet her for coffee; kinda boring. Meet Saturday or after work. Plan a few fun places to go and let her stop by your place first. Make each place a surprise. As soon as she comes inside your place go get your stuff and go.. You’re showing her that coming to your place is safe by not trying anything.
The places you take her can be low cost or even free, just make sure they’re physical and fun. Also make sure the last venue is near your place. While at the last venue invite her back to your place for a drink or to show her some fun photos or a funny video you made.
Be sure to give this invite a time-constraint. Tell her she can only stay for 30 minutes because you have some other important thing to do; this is just in case either of you feel uncomfortable, it’s a free “out”. If things go well you can always change your mind. As an added benefit, time-constraints make any romantic interludes spontaneous instead of pre-planned and awkward.
Have fun on your date!
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Part 7
Robyn 17
“Tell her she can only stay for 30 minutes” – you must be joking!
A girl has to invest a minimum of 3-4 times that amount (60-90 minutes) in getting ready for and getting to the date venue and getting home after the date, and in return she gets that minimal sliver of your time….
Talk about putting people under pressure / inducing performance anxiety… Sheesh…!
If a guy told me he could only spare 30 minutes to meet me for the first time, there’s no way in hell I’d accept that invitation. An hour minimum is decent / reasonable as a first “coffee” / “after-work drink”.
Selena 18
David Gideon,
I would definitely not agree to go with a man I had never met before to his place first. The fact that he would even suggest such a thing would make me wonder about possible bad intentions – it most certainly wouldn’t make me feel ‘safe’.
Also, if I did hit it off with the guy and agreed to go back to his place for a drink after our date, I would be VERY put off if he told me I could only stay 30 minutes because he had some other important thing to do. What the ….?
I think you have some learnin’ to do about women dude.
Selena 19
David,
I just popped over to your blog and I can’t believe some of your *techniques*!
Such as:
“It’s really fun to bust on girls in a fun and teasing way to increase sexual tension. Remember, you never want to be mean.. you’re simply taking the frame of big brother and putting her in the frame of bratty little sister. For example, if she says excitedly that she just saw the movie The Notebook, you might say sarcastically, And your point is? Or if she trips you might say, What a retard. Or if she mispronounces some text she’s reading you might say, Oh my God, you can’t read.
How the hell old are you anyway?
casualencounters.com/blog 20
@Li-Ann well, I meant regarding “if a woman walks in who is 30 lbs over what a certain man expected”…
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 19 Potential Problems
hunter 21
Li-Ann, you seek chemistry on the first date? Don’t most women warm up to a man after 3 dates?…
Marc 22
Sure coffee is boring – so is tea, coca-cola, or a glass of wine. The beverage and the location are not what are important. It’s the two people drinking the coffee, soda or wine that need to click – and when you click, you click anywhere.
Marc´s last blog post…NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOUR F-IN KIDS ON FACEBOOK
verbo 23
Meeting for coffee?
It’s not a date. It’s a job interview, and usually about as fun.
hunter 24
Most men know at first sight, if we like a woman or not, we don’t need more than 30 minutes…
Li-Ann 25
Casualencounters – now I understand what you were referring to! When I said “a woman walks in 30 lbs over what the man expected” I wasn’t referring to myself, I’m not 30 lbs overweight. I meant that as a general example of how a real life face-to-face meeting could go wrong, after a month of excellent emails. It could also be that she is not what he expected in other ways. Or, he is not what she expected.
Hunter – no I don’t seek chemistry on the first date. What I meant was a situation where I meet someone for the very first time, but he is completely not what I was looking for. Someone I normally would not consider in a real-life situation. I often cannot tell this until we meet if our only contact beforehand was through email. Naturally, if the man fits within what I happen to personally like, I will give it more time.
Steve 26
Selena, posts #18 – 19: word.
Blogs like David’s are becoming a dime a dozen. A lot of young kids who don’t know anything are regurgitating content they read from PUA lit ( sketchy to begin with ) and then strutting around like they invented dating.
David Gideon 27
Let’s get my previous post clear. I said AFTER the date invite her back to your place and tell her she can only stay for 30 minutes.. That’s a time-constraint to offset pressure & assumptions about the guys intentions. Secondly, I tease & joke with women because I’m confident where most guys are on their best behavior & placating at all times with beautiful women i.e not natural. Thirdly, some venues are just boring & cliche, regardless of the people there. Fun & creative dates are better. Stand out from the crowd. EVERY GUY meets her at the coffee shop, takes her do dinner and a movie.
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
casualencounters.com/blog 28
@Li-Ann My point is that the problem there is not with meeting at a coffee shop, it’s with the fact that one of the people involved has been dishonest right from the start.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 19 The Heavy Stuff: Pregnancy, STDs and contraception
David Gideon 29
I should add that some of my advice is geared towards exceptionally attractive women with high self-esteem. Teasing women who feel unattractive and have low self-esteem will backfire.
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
Selena 30
Re: #29
And I would counter, attractive women with high self-esteem would find a companion who called them a “retard” or teased them “Oh my God, you can’t read!” – unbelievably immature, ignorant, unpleasant and not worth further conversation. Let alone a date, a relationship, or even a no-strings roll in the hay.
David Gideon 31
Selena, your statement is a gross generalization. What a girl finds humor in depends on the personality and humor of the girl. If you really are a slow-reader and I tease you about it I guess you’d be offended. But if you read just fine & I make an obvious joke about your reading ability it becomes funny.
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
David Gideon 32
And Steve, what’s your advice for Matt? (crickets…..)
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
hunter 33
Selena, not even a no-strings roll in the hay?…aaaahhha, that’s not fair…..
hunter 34
The average man is “immature” as per women standards.
JuJu 35
I might not necessarily see anything wrong with a man inviting me to his place after a date, but what kind of host tells their guest they are only invited for 30 minutes, anyway? Because he has something important to do afterwards?!
I would probably be happy, actually, to hear this kind of an “invitation” as it gives me so much information about the person so soon.
Selena, any PUA advice is not worth your ire.
David Gideon, you are mistaken on the “very attractive with very high self-esteem” part. These women may be very attractive, but the very reason they respond to a pickup technique in the first place is insecurity.
That’s the target audience of PUA’s in general – the insecure and the self-unaware. (Is there such a word? Well, there should be. :-p)
Selena 36
David,
One of the ways of attracting people TO you is to make them feel attractive WITH you.
If a women trips while walking beside you, you get the opportunity to put your arm around her gently to steady her. You could make a joke out of it, “Usually I’m the one the pavement trolls are out to get.” You don’t want her to feel embarrased, you want to make her feel good about you.
If she mispronounces a word, you can say you thought it was pronounced….(the correct way). And you go on to tell her about a word or few that have given you trouble. This can lead to a conversation involving all kinds of plays on words; puns, light double entendre.
The idea you want to leave her with is that you are smart, funny, sweet and a great guy. Not the bratty little brother she would never consider sleeping with. Attractive women with high self esteem are not interested in dating boys who will snap the back of their bra strap and find it hilarious.
Old, old phrase: You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. When it comes to potential lovers it couldn’t be more true.
Jennifer 37
@David- in your initial post you mentioned letting the woman come to your place first, show her you wouldn’t try anything, and then invite her back later with the time constraint. On a first date, a lot of women aren’t going to go for stopping by the guy’s house, especially first thing.
And while the type of ‘teasing’ banter you describe may work for some, for others it will be seen as transparent and/or annoying. It can be so off-putting, and not just for the ugly/slow reader set, that I would think it’s not worth trying, but that’s just me.
Steve 38
David; post #32.
I think Matt is in good hands with Evan’s advice.
Lance 39
@Steve: I actually have to agree with you on this about dating blogs, too saturated, although I don’t disagree with Gideon’s advice.
Lance´s last blog post…Give Freebies To Build Your Creative Portfolio
kat 40
@gideon — ummm, have you ever actually READ any of evan’s books, articles, posts…? you might want to do so before giving your own “advice” to the readers on this site. it scares me to think that anyone here would give credence to what you suggest. read some of evan’s stuff…really…
Karl R 41
David Gideon said: (#29)
“some of my advice is geared towards exceptionally attractive women with high self-esteem.”
A lot of exceptionally attractive women have surprisingly low self-esteem. And this is not something that becomes apparent until you know someone for a while.
Furthermore, in my experience, people who insult others are the ones who lack self confidence. So if you come across as insulting instead of funny, you will undermine your goal of appearing self-confident.
David Gideon: (#31)
“What a girl finds humor in depends on the personality and humor of the girl.”
And this is something that takes some time to discover, particularly if we’re referring to her ability to laugh at herself.
David Gideon: (#27)
“most guys are on their best behavior & placating at all times with beautiful women i.e not natural.”
This was the one valid point that you made. A self-confident person won’t be placating and they won’t try to be on their best behavior.
But I can be confident (and appear confident) without being a jerk. A confident person knows how to accept a compliment. A confident person doesn’t go overboard with complimenting his date. A confident person is comfortable with expressing an opinion that’s different from their date’s opinion. A confident person can relax and enjoy themselves while on a first date. A confident person doesn’t need to “prove” that he’s better than the other men she’s dated.
None of these require me to say anything that’s potentially rude to my date.
David Gideon 42
This is turning into a great conversation. Juju, I think it’s wrong to lumb all pua advice into one category. It’s not all nerdy guys with memorized lines trying to pick up wannabe models with low self-esteem.
Many of the “techniques” that seem to draw the “ire” of women are merely ways of allaying the fears, false-assumptions, & suspicions of women who get approached a dozen times every day. They get approached by so many guys “trying for rapport” before even knowing them that they put up a shield. If you walk up trying to be Mr.Nice guy you just end up being the “next” guy.
My general philosophy is for guys to recognize who they are, who they want to be, what it will take to get there, & start moving in that direction. This will make them more attractive. Does this sound like prepartion for low self-esteem girls?
Next they need to decide what they want in a woman and what they won’t tolerate. Having no standards is unfulfilling in the long term and unattractive isn’t it?
When a guy sees a woman they find physically attractive he should see if she meets his standards first (not immediately try to create rapport like every other guy). If she does meet his standards he should let her know and only then begin to show real interest. Now is the time to create rapport and comfort.
Let’s not get all hung up on the teasing thing since you can’t really understand it without proper context. Teasing a beautiful girl about being goofy or clumsy does no harm unless it’s true or she has some weird issues with it, trust me. I’ve never had any problems.
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
David Gideon 43
@Jennifer I usually tell girls to meet me at my place and then we’ll leave from here. This suggestion is usually accepted, every now & then its not. When they get to my place I let them come in while I finish getting ready for a few minutes. The whole purpose is to get her comfortable being in my place without fear of any “funny business” automatically happening.
This way we can go back to my place at the end of the day and connect more without awkwardness. To further facilitate this I’ll tell her she can only stay for a little while, as I have to wake up early or whatever. Otherwise, it just seems like I have some ulterior motive or like I’m trying to get in her pants. It helps her relax.. She’s just coming in for a few minutes.. nothing will happen.
It usually works out just fine and makes for a more comfortable and enjoyable experience. And IF anything does happen she doesn’t feel like she planned it… which would be a problem for some women… It just “happened”.
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
David Gideon 44
@Jennifer By the way, that whole teasing thing was taken completely out of context from a previous post on my blog. It has nothing to do with the advice I gave to the original question and has little relevance here. I didn’t even mention it, someone else did… Ya know, Fox News tactics; “He said x.. so y can’t possibly be true!”
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
Steve 45
@kat post #40,
There are probably a lot of young, socially clueless college kids out there getting drinks thrown on them as a result of the kind of advice David and his ilk are ripping off without understanding.
casualencounters.com/blog 46
I think the best approach is just to act like a complete asshole for a few dates, then when she’s just about to walk, “reveal” some hitherto unsuspected “soft, emotional” side, before reverting back to Bad Man Hates You. Rinse and repeat.
Wait, no I don’t. Why’d I type that?
Time to cry.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 19 The Heavy Stuff: Pregnancy, STDs and contraception
David Gideon 47
@Karl I never come across as insulting. I keep the girls laughin’ so your first point doesn’t really apply to me, sorry. I’m always calibrating my communication to create the best experience for both of us.. not “us”, but me and the girl.. didn’t mean to lead you on.
Discovering a girls humor and personality doesn’t take me that long, Karl. I guess we’re different in that respect. If a woman is attracted to you she’ll usually open up & a connection can be created relatively fast.
I agree with your agreement on my third point.
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
Selena 48
Re: #44
Anyone interested should click on David’s blog and read his advice for themselves. It’s all there – in context – word for word.
starthrower68 49
You know, when we can’t even agree on where to meet for a first date….
David Gideon 50
@Steve There are probably a lot of middle aged lonely men watching adult movies in the middle of the night who don’t take my advice. I’d rather get a drink thrown in my face.. that never happens though.
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
hunter 51
DG, I read the “Style Life Challenge,” and found it encouraging…
Steve 52
@David post #50
It isn’t your advice, you are ripping it off ( poorly ) from other authors.
David Gideon 53
@Selena I don’t disagree with your advice about catching flies with honey. I think there’s a time and a place for a guy to show all the facets of his personality. Being a gentleman, protecting the ones you care about, being a kind person.. of course all of those things are part of being a great man. So is humor and having fun.
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
David Gideon 54
@Steve If you cite the authors I ripped off then I will cite you the authors THEY ripped off. Do you have any good advice that you’ve researched and developed yourself? Do you even have any “ripped off” good advice relevant to dating? Just give in, Steve… be my disciple. Come to me my child… all is forgiven.
David Gideon
David Gideon´s last blog post…Neil Strauss Dating Course Lesson 8
Evan Marc Katz 55
Enough.
Any further posts about David Gideon, by David Gideon, or referencing this ridiculous back and forth with David Gideon will be summarily deleted.
The Management
casualencounters.com/blog 56
I’m frightened.
casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 20 Conclusion
hunter 57
Young women are attracted to the A-hole approach as per Casual-Encounters..
Sayanta 58
Evan-
Well, it’s your blog, so obviously it’s up to you what to put on it. But it doesn’t seem that anything David Gideon (or the # of times he posted) is any worse than things anyone else has ever said or the # of times they’ve posted. So why the delete? It’s no skin off my back- I’m just curious, is all.
Evan Marc Katz 59
It’s not that Mr. Gideon has said anything “wrong”. It’s that the back and forth sniping ceased being constructive – and turned into a he said/she said. And since it was pretty clear what everyone was saying, I didn’t think we needed 20 more posts on Mr. Gideon.
Sayanta 60
“If you can’t kiss at Starbucks, what’s the point of going to Starbucks for a first date”-
I was thinking- by this logic, the best first date would be in someone’s bedroom, no?
I imagine most men would love that, though.
the foreigner 61
@Evan
Word! Though I think discussions like these show how educated your audience is – I mean really! The responses to DG are quite excellent.
On topic, my experience is that the venue isn’t all that important. Just the other week a woman suggested to meet up for a lunch date, we spent maybe two hours talking, we couldn’t stop, it was great! Then she asked me to come by her place later that night and well, there’s your kiss right there.
The experience I gained from that date was that you can show all your confidence and self esteem by leading the conversation. You know, be a bit like Letterman. Come well prepared with open questions that are specific to the person you’re dating, preferably about things that you can relate to as well. If there’s a funny story in there make sure you get the chance to share it, it really eases the tension.
She wasn’t from around here and I was really interested in things like what she did in her home town on a Saturday night or what courses she was taking here.
That coffee date was one of the best dates I’ve had so far. Okay, I’m not as experienced as most people here, and sure red wine and cozy settings makes it all a bit easier. But isn’t it also about what you’re looking for?
Maria 62
Yes, but just one more Evan..please!! I havn’t had a chance to put in my two cents yet. I appreciate David’s approach to creating a sense of security when offering a 30 minute clause prior to showing a girl your place. However, I am not willing to see a guys place until at least the fourth date, and even then I usually preface my stopping by with “I can only stay for a few minutes.” Yes, stopping by a guys place is important in early stages of dating to build trust and rapport. However, single women are well aware and all too familiar with the serial daters out there who are like wolves in sheeps clothing. ie, They want to begin the date at their place so they can end the date at their place…and have the advantage. “Oh you really shouldn’t drive, it’s late..or you had too much to drink…just crash on my sofa…nothing will happen…I promise…you can trust me ” routine. Yeah right!
Evan, this topic alone would be a great future thread for singles.
Didi, a female 63
This whole topic concerning about excepting a man’s invitation into his home, right? And “what he SAYS to you while in his house, right? Try this on for size?
Although I was with a man for 10 years, we had several other mutal (male) friends that we had known over the years, we had invited everyone we knew to attend several of our parties, etc. I am now single.
One night out sociallizing, one of “our” ( male ) friends saw me at a table and approached me, asked to sit down and began conversing. I always found him to be extremely attractive, very funny, and easy-going. Within a few hours we were laughing, enjoying each others company, exchanged phone numbers, wonderful chemistry together, and planned a date. (NOW REMEMBER: I’ve know this man “as a friend” for several years). On the night of the date, he was going to pick me up at my house. He calls to say to was returning home late because of work, asked not to cancell on him and that he was on his way to the house, still needed to get ready, drive to pick me up, and asked if it was ok. He mentioned where he lived, time break down of each step, all before he arrived. (My theory: by the time he was dressed, I could shorten the waiting time). I casually offered to meet him at hs place and start the date from there. Upon arriving there, he was putting on his shoes, he gave me a hug and short kiss, he thanked me for meeting him there, and we left for the evening. (Now, you see, I just received my first kiss prior to our first date. I loved it!). We left in his car. Upon returning home, ofcourse, I went inside his home, he said we could “talk, and I could leave at my own discretion…”. After about 30 minutes, I thanked him for the evening, looked forward to seeing him next weekend…then he… kisses me, and then again, and again. All the while, I think we both knew we were going to be dating each other…for a long, long, time. It IS…”all in the chemestry”! NOW TO MAKE A POINT: Now, IF he had said…”30 minutes ” or “my own discretion”, he was with a girl he had known for a very long time and he felt comfortable being around me. Chemistry makes a man “court me, chase me, wait for me… By the way, we are still together.
hunter 64
Didi, that is why some couples, stay home most of the time, they are afraid of their partner making friends and moving on to someone else.
JuJu 65
Sorry, I can’t even understand the point of the last two messages. Must be my poor command of the English language. :-
Selena 66
ROFL JuJu! Me too.
hunter 67
JuJu, your post is humorous!…
Sarah 68
Does anyone posting here actually have to do work during the work day? This is my problem with the lunch date. I have no problem meeting an online suitor for the first time for coffee. I see the first date with someone I met online as an opportunity to see whether or not there’s any hope of developing chemistry.
But during lunch I like to eat food so when I go back to work I can concentrate on my job instead of how hungry I am. I don’t want to drive 20 minutes somewhere, eat for an hour and drive 20 minutes back because I don’t want to be away from the office for more than an hour. I think it’s disrespectful to my co-workers, who are relying on me to complete my work product. So if I end the date after 45 minutes, I feel like that could send the wrong signal to a man. If I like him, I’d like to keep talking and not have to worry about my work assignments. So I’d prefer not to meet for lunch.
JuJu 69
It’s easier in a big city with plenty of cafes right next to your workplace, Sarah. No 20-minute drive each way necessary.
Although, I personally don’t like the time limitation.
hunter 70
Meet for lunch on you day off.
vlh 71
I was mugged. About 4 or 5 months later, I went out on a first date with a man I met on Yahoo personals. He *insisted* on picking me up at my house. I guess he thought he earned the right by emailing me so much. I thought I had explained to him very carefully why having a man I don’t know pick me up at my house made me feel very unsafe and uncomfortable. He still insisted. I caved. Big mistake. I was on edge during the whole date. From the moment I got into his car, I was hostile to him, and in total panic-mode. His inability to respect my boundaries and to listen to my concerns ruined this first date. If he could have just settled for a few coffee/lunch dates in the beginning, my comfort level would have increased with him, so that having him pick me up for dinner on date number 3 or 4 would not have caused such a meltdown. While I agree with Evan’s argument in general, I think my situation is an example of a very real exception you need to make: NEVER FORCE A TRAUMATIZED PERSON INTO ANY DATING SITUATION THAT THEY HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU THEY DON’T FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING. Period. Your date mentions she was mugged/raped/pickpocketed/had her car broken into or anything else like that within the last year, you can bet she’s still walking on eggshells psychologically, whether she was physically harmed or not. I was lucky. I was not *physically* harmed. I *thought* I was mostly okay to go out on a blind date. Even I underestimated my level of trauma. I gave myself a nice long break from dating after that experience. But of course, I never went out on another date with that particular man.
Karl R 72
vlh stated: (#71)
“NEVER FORCE A TRAUMATIZED PERSON INTO ANY DATING SITUATION THAT THEY HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU THEY DON’T FEEL COMFORTABLE DOING.”
I would say that also applies to people who haven’t been traumatized.
You don’t want to be uncomfortable on a date, nor do you want your date to be uncomfortable. You particularly don’t want to be the cause of your date’s discomfort.
kenley 73
vlh,
Why did you decide to go out with a man who had no regard for what you needed to feel safe — especially when you were not asking for anything at all unreasonable? If a man doesn’t do his best to make YOU feel comfortable and safe, he isn’t worth your time.
Alicia G. 74
I personally don’t think meeting someone for lunch (lunch break or not) is a bad idea. I think this should be the norm when going on a first date. It is a comfortable setting, great place to start the “is this person compatible with me” process, etc. A first date is a first date. There shouldn’t be any lip smacking or funny business going on, so the setting is fine. There are plenty of more romantic, creative dates to worry about in the future if both people are still interested. I wrote an ebook for guys (50 tips to keep in mind when going on a first date). Check it out by going to my website.
helene 75
Guys – an important thing to consider when asking a girl on a first date is that she will want to be looking her best. Dates involving sports or outdoor activities are a bad idea in this respect as she can’t wear her cute dress and heels and her hair might get in a mess, which will worry her. Anything involving a lot of walking will be a problem because of the cute but impractical shoes she has worn (for YOU). “Surprise” style dates are the worse of all cos then she won’t know WHAT to wear at all.
Meeting an online date for the first time is hard work as its a bit like running a race from a standing start, but for that very reason its even MORE important that the setting is conducive to flirting and romance, should the spark be there. If it isn’t it doesn’t matter WHERE you took her, but if this DOES turn out to be someone you feel mutual chemistry with, there has to be a fighting chance to get things onto a romantic footing.
My preference for a first online date is to meet MIDWEEK for a DRINK, lateish in the evening eg 8.30 or 9pm. Dinner can be a drag if you don’t hit it off. Weekend dates are too much pressure. A drink in a classy place that’s not too noisy, not too quiet is perfect, and by meeting late in the evening if you don’t hit it off you can decently leave after an hour and a half with the excuse thart you have to get up early for work. By then its 10pm so this works – if you meet at 7pm you can’t really use this excuse at 8.30!
sarahrahrah! 76
Excellent post that addresses one of my primary concerns as a single parent in my early 40s, Evan.
I don’t like the work day lunch date or rushed coffee date because I am almost always rushed in those situations and feel like it’s difficult to look my best and engage in lighthearted conversation. To make it more difficult, I’m more of an introvert and people don’t usually get a sense of my personality until they’ve known me for a little while.
If you will please forgive me for asking a question, what is a woman to do if that is what most men suggest? I don’t want to dismiss all coffee dates out of hand, but I am doubtful about the value of “drive by dates.” Any suggestions for feminine strategies to deal with these situations?
Katt 77
When a guy ask me for coffee it puts me into a friend mode. I tell them i dont do coffee (cheap n means they r not romanric or dating way too much) lunch ? No to that .. Rush n squeezzze me in .. Save lunch for biz until ur in a relariinship then its a nice treat. Eve dates are more romantic and it doesnt have to be all out dinner.. Nice place , couple of drinks , appetizer! If u cant do that thn buzz off! And stop asking dor my number online and then u text me ! I give a number for a reason! CALL to hear ur voice.. N ask me out that way.. U lose me already if ur that insecure n stupid n lazy
Katt 78
Sooooo true. I even put no coffee/lunch dates! Save for business meetings! My question is … They still ask me for coffee or lunch and i automatically lose interest. Is that wrong?
Also, i state if i give my number after 2emails do not text me .. Whats point of givn u my number ? We can type for emails
chivonh 79
‘And if you find them lame and you want your first meeting to have a bit of a spark, you have to work backwards from how you want your date to end.‘
I so agree! This tip is really helpful for both men and women.
Having an idea or giving some thought to the destination of the date definitely helps to set the tone of the date…A date born from this thought process will be much more fruitful and fun than one where you meet for dinner and ‘see how it goes’…
Carrie 80
I personally find coffee dates just fine. I am always prepared for 30 minutes but they usually turn into two hours and 30 minutes. When I get invited for a 2nd date, it will be much at a much nicer venue – but I always meet them at the place and they understand that I do that for personal safety. I don’t share my personal address or go to a man’s home unless I know them very well. I met one man for lunch (his day off) and it was very nice followed by more very classy dates. I don’t like to have a man spend a lot on the first meeting in case I don’t want to go on a second date. All the men I have dated for a longer time have paid for just about everything (and they spend a lot) — it is a struggle to get them to let me pay for anything. So, I don’t think meeting for coffee or lunch is any indicator that a man is “cheap” or a “moocher”.
SalsaQ 81
I just came across a profile where the woman said she prefers coffee for a first date. So for those of you with a strong preference either way, you should just make it known in your pre-first-date exchanges or in your profile.
Temnotah 82
Do what is best for you two, don’t listen to others, nobody else will understand your relationship better than the two of you.
Clare 83
@ Katt # 77 & 78
I agree it is more preferable for a guy to phone rather than text, and to arrange a slightly more romantic night-time date, rather than lunch or coffee.
And the good ones are open to guidance on this.
But I find the effectiveness of your guidance is very much in *how* you do it. If a guy wants to text, I always say with the utmost charm how good it would feel to get a phone call and that that feels more connected than texting. The good ones are thrilled to oblige, the ones who feel this is too much effort, I agree, can buzz off.
Similarly with dates, if a guy really has his heart set on taking you to coffee or lunch, I say let him. It doesn’t automatically mean you’re in the friend zone and I *definitely* would not give him the dressing down that you say you tell them.
I’d say just next time he asks you out say how you think it would be great to have an evening date and that you’d feel more excited about that.