If The Lust Has Faded, Should I Dump My Great Boyfriend?
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Hi Evan, I stumbled across your blog while looking for advice. It’s been really helpful for me so far! I have read what you’ve written on passion and chemistry, and I know you get a lot of questions on this topic. I am 27 and have been with my boyfriend for 3 years. He is the kindest, most compassionate guy I have ever known. He treats me like gold and is just the coolest, most gentle person who understands me completely and is always there for me. I feel safe and calm when I am with him. He makes me so happy and when we are together we have so much fun and I am always so happy I feel like I’m on cloud nine! He really does feel like my soulmate and I feel so lucky to have met someone like him. I love him very much and have a strong feeling that I always want to be there for him and make him happy. There is just one little problem…
I don’t feel that same passion and lust for him as I did when we first met. I am not super excited and giddy around him anymore. I used to want to jump his bones anywhere and everywhere, even in the supermarket. But that feeling has faded and now when we are doing everyday things together like shopping or cuddling on the couch I feel more of a peaceful comfort and warmth with him. Don’t get me wrong, I still find him attractive. I still love to be physical with him and we are constantly touching and kissing and cuddling. It’s just not that exciting anymore; it feels more comforting and warm and loving rather than lustful. I don’t think about him every second of the day anymore, don’t get butterflies in my stomach when I see him and don’t feel nervous, giddy or weak in the knees anymore. When we are together doing ordinary everyday things I don’t feel that intense lust anymore, but rather a warm comfort and joy. This makes me so confused. I love him so much and want to stay with him. I cant imagine being with anyone else. Isn’t a relationship or a marriage supposed to have that intense lust? Would I be wrong to stay in a relationship where the lust has faded? Marisa
Marry him.
Like, right now. Lock it in.
You’re in a dream relationship and you’re trying to find cracks in it.
That’s like inspecting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel to see where Michelangelo colored outside the lines.
Just reread what you wrote above:
“He makes me so happy and when we are together we have so much fun and I am always so happy I feel like I’m on cloud nine! He really does feel like my soulmate and I feel so lucky to have met someone like him. I love him very much and have a strong feeling that I always want to be there for him and make him happy.”
This is what it’s all about, Marisa. And it’s not like you’re turned off by him:
You SHOULDN’T feel butterflies with the person who will be there until you die.
Don’t get me wrong, I still find him attractive. I still love to be physical with him and we are constantly touching and kissing and cuddling. It’s just not that exciting anymore; it feels more comforting and warm and loving rather than lustful. I don’t think about him every second of the day anymore, don’t get butterflies in my stomach when I see him and don’t feel nervous, giddy or weak in the knees anymore.
This is exactly what healthy relationships should be like. You SHOULDN’T be nervous around your best friend. You SHOULDN’T obsess about the man you’ve loved for 3 years. You SHOULDN’T feel butterflies with the person who will be there until you die.
That’s what happens at the beginning – and, to make sure you feel normal – this feeling wears off within 18-24 months in most relationships, according to Dr. Helen Fisher, author of “Why We Love”.
Which is why, as a dating coach, I spend most of my time telling women to find the relationship that feels EXACTLY like yours does, Marisa!
You’ve hit the lottery and you’re worried about paying taxes on it? Really?
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69 Comments »Filed Under Chemistry
Confused 1
Um can I have this “problem” please.
Diana 2
Exactly! Well said, Evan.
My only comment is that while it’s impossible to not take each other for granted from time to time, especially after many years together, try to not fall too much into this category. Sometimes a couple grows “too” comfortable with each other which can lead to issues like not feeling appreciated, or feeling under appreciated, to not doing or saying the things that made your relationship feel so special in the beginning, or to not notice that as you change, how this is affecting your relationship and your partner.
Enjoy!
starthrower68 3
This sort of confusion is what happens when we are more about the hookup and when we don’t keep sex in it’s proper perspective. Sex is wonderful but where have we gotten this impression that lust and passion last forever?
Steve 4
This makes me so confused. I love him so much and want to stay with him. I cant imagine being with anyone else. Isn’t a relationship or a marriage supposed to have that intense lust?
No.
A marriage should have passion. On the other hand, it isn’t natural or normal to feel like you are on a crack high every day after you have known someone for 3 years. No state of being in nature is static. You are thinking about things in terms of ideals that don’t exit in the real world.
Karl R 5
Marissa asked: (original post)
“Isn’t a relationship or a marriage supposed to have that intense lust? Would I be wrong to stay in a relationship where the lust has faded?”
No and No.
Scientist have discovered that the intense feelings disappear over the first 1-3 years. If you’re in a great relationship, it feels like what you’ve described after the infatuation fades: warm, loving, comfortable, etc.
I wouldn’t marry a woman until that intense lust fades. I want to be certain that my decision is based on something more substantial and long-lasting. Lust tends to cloud my objectivity.
MC 6
Yes, marry him.
And just to be sure you know, most of the people reading your letter deeply envy you. You just will never know how much.
texasdarlin 7
This makes me so confused. I love him so much and want to stay with him. I cant imagine being with anyone else. Isn’t a relationship or a marriage supposed to have that intense lust?
Since when? Where did you get that idea? This is real life, not a romance novel or romantic comedy. Lust will wax and wane in a long-term relationship. That’s natural. As usual, Evan has it right and the others who’ve commented thus far have good points.
Marisa 8
I would totally agree with Evan. Good men like this are difficult to find, especially those who you feel so special and comfortable with. I would add that a sex life can be worked on and passion goes through cycles.
Christie Hartman 9
KEEP HIM!
Yes, the intense, lustful, butterfly-ish feelings are not sustainable over the long haul. Science has shown this. The only way to get those feelings again is to do drugs, which stimulate the same brain areas as when you fall in love or become infatuated. But this affect won’t last either. So I guess you’re stuck dealing with a sane, awesome relationship.
To take this a bit further, I would even go so far as to say that everyone should be wary of too many of these feelings even early on. Your soul mate (or at least a good partner) is more likely to be the person you feel like you’ve known for years, not the person you obsess about or feel intense lust for.
Diana 10
I remember that “intense lust” time in my life and all the heartache the bad boy who brought it left in his wake. Your guy is the man of almost EVERY womans’ dreams. If you do not close the deal, trust me, someone else gladly will. Try not to get too worked up if it happens to be one of your close friends. I’m just saying… Count your blessings.
A-L 11
Marry him. He sounds like an ideal match for you.
happygirl 12
Are you for real? ..You are in a relationship with a man who sounds like an wonderful person….yet you wonder about lust?
The grass is not always greener on the other side.
I would say marry him. He has the qualities many of us are looking for in a man.
Bill 13
I know many many women. They figure they can get someone better. Do you know what happens they never could because there window of opportunity disappeared. You met him while you were 23/24 when you were at the peak of your attractiveness. Right now at age 27 your not at your peak anymore your about to reach 30 in 3 more years. Your on the decline.
This is also at a time when hot young successful men that want to be in relationships that are age appropriate 30 to 32 are quickly being snatch up by other women.
If you break up with him now. You will never find a guy as good as him. You will always feel like your always settling.
Lock it in!!! Before you screw it up!
Steve 14
@ Bill #13
You know, anytime I get too giddy I can always turn to the internet to find someone with a sour word. Thank you. The post on the email list I read about the upcoming world wide depression didn’t quite bring me all of the way back to Earth.
Zann 15
Maybe I missed something, but I didn’t see anywhere in her letter that he was asking her to marry him. Why encourage her to marry him when it doesn’t sound like he’s asked her to. Could that be the real problem? She’s got this great guy and they’ve got history and comfort and everything’s wonderful but…. maybe he’s content to keep it as is. So she’s talked herself into thinking the relationship has lost its luster so she can rationalize looking elsewhere instead of feeling rejection?
Maybe I’m over-thinking it. Or maybe I’m just too suspicious…but something about this letter seems disingenuine. Can you really have the kind of quality relationship she’s describing and still wonder whether you should trash it for that fluttery feeling? Keeping passion in a long-term relationship takes effort, attentiveness, and patience to get you through the not-so-great times. It also requires maturity — knowing that your needs, including lust & dazzle, sometimes don’t come first.
Ruby 16
#13
<<I know many many women. They figure they can get someone better.>>
Sorry that happened to you.
<<You met him while you were 23/24 when you were at the peak of your attractiveness. Right now at age 27 your not at your peak anymore your about to reach 30 in 3 more years. Your on the decline.>>
Since when is a 27 year old no longer at the peak of her attractiveness and “on the decline”?
And she’s about to turn 30 in THREE years! Oh, the horror!
This isn’t about fear-mongering and dire pronouncements. It’s about understanding what a good relationship involves, and having the maturity to be ready for it.
Sarahrahrah! 17
Hi, Marisa.
I totally respect the fact that you took the time to ask others about your situation rather dive into marriage with important questions unanswered.
While I totally agree with EMK, especially his reference to Barry Schwarz’s Paradox of Choice and another poster’s reference to the dating pool shrinking as you age, I think it is important for you to know that women go through sexual peaks at different times. While it is widely acknowledged that men hit it between 18 and their early twenties, I hit mine in my late twenties. For you, it might be that you are passing through yours, too. That is not to say that you are not still going to have wonderful, intense sex for years to come. It just might mean that you are able to refrain from jumping your boyfriend at the grocery store! ;) And when you think about it, that is really useful because we all need to eat food, too, right?
Another thing that it sounds like you’re getting is the idea of working on a relationship. One of the best pieces of advice I have ever received is that you tend to get out of relationships that which you put into them. At some point, you might have to work on stoking the fires of attraction and lust in your relationship. But don’t be fooled. Just because you have to work on those things doesn’t make them any less “real.” Research shows that people who have been married for decades can still experience intense passion. The thing is that they both have to put the effort in to keep it going. However, they reap the benefits of both passion *and* intimacy — something that short term relationships can’t offer you.
Good luck to you — I think your inquisitive nature will be very helpful in a long term relationship/marriage, if that is the direction you choose to take. :)
Selena 18
Like Zann #15, something about this letter seems “off” to me. First of all, if you’ve been blissfully happy for 3 years, why haven’t you gotten married already? Or at least engaged? Evan and all the other commenters have mentioned it, but not the letter writer Marisa. Odd.
Is there something else going on perhaps? Is that lack of intense lust really a cover for the lack of something else? Sometimes when we are dissatisfied with other aspects of our lives, our jobs, our situation, ourselves, we point to the relationship as being the culprit instead of digging at the real reason and doing something about it. The relationship becomes a scapegoat of sorts. Worth considering Marisa.
Also, I’ve found what the other Marisa #8 wrote is true; passion tends to go in cycles. Butterflies fade away after a few months and with familiarity, but desire lasts as long as the relationship stays good, the place where you want to be.
Note to Sarahrahrah: You don’t say how old you are, but late 20′s is not typically the “sexual peak” for females. It’s generally credited as later – mid 30′s to early 40′s. Depends on the particular female I suppose. Personally, like passion within a relationship I’ve found “peaks” to be be cyclical as well.
Gem 19
Great advice, Evan. Yes, she should marry him. She has exactly what a healthy, wonderful, and long-term, mutually satisfying relationship should look like!
If she’s missing that new, gooey feeling from the beginnings of her relationship, she should open a bottle of wine (if they drink), turn off the TV and talk with him about how they met, old memories from the beginning stages, recall and relate those butterfly feelings. Those kinds of talks can really re-connect that feeling for a couple and remind each other why they are together. And reaffirm how blessed they are.
starthrower68 20
@Bill #13,
Women don’t have the market cornered on thinking they can find someone better. It’s a human issue, not a gender-specific one.
Stacy 21
#13
dude, are you for real? Unless we’re talking porn stars, 27 IS the peak of her attractiveness. She’s a lot more competitive at this age than she was at 24 because now she can attract both guys her own age, a bit yonger and 10+ years older who are either divorced or single and accomplished. Age is not the reason she should marry him. The fact that she likes being in a relationship with him does.
JB 22
@Bill #13- Errr…. I don’t know how old YOU are but if you think women are LESS attractive at 27 you are delusional.Actually SOME (not all) women become more attractive as they age and emotionally mature into their 30′s and beyond to a great number of men.Believe me,I can vouch for it.Marisa is 27,I don’t think she said how old he is?I’m going to go out on a limb and say she’s not on the road to “30 and over the hill”…..lol
Honey 23
I think this relationship sounds great! It’s how I feel about Jake, and yes, as others have mentioned, passion/lust comes and goes in waves in great relationships.
And I don’t see why they should be married or even engaged after 3 years, or what this would have to do with being insecure or uncertain. Jake and I have been together almost 5 years and aren’t engaged yet. My best friend from grad school has been with her boyfriend for 4 years, they’re expecting their second child this spring, and they don’t plan to EVER get married. There are LOTS of other factors besides the stability of the relationship that go into deciding when – or whether – marriage is right for you.
Bill 24
I am in the marketing and sales industry. Yes women who are accomplish are attractive to a lot of men. But women who are physically attractive especially youthful are wanted more by men than accomplished. It is the sad reality of life.
Stacy 25
Bill.. sorry but you’re dead wrong on this issue.
I am 29 and I’ve dated and been in relationshps with older men my entire life (as in 15 years older). I can tell you that at 29 my dating options are by far better than they were at 23. I now fish in the pool of highly accomplished men who would not even look at a 23 yo (unless she’s an escort I suppose). The reason is they value the fact that a woman is mature enough to not get them into any stupid trouble, and secondly, many told me that they’d be highly uncomfortable dating someone who could be their daughter. In addition, scoring a date with same-age guys (as in up to 5 years senior) is a breeze and I recently went out with someone 2 years younger. I’d say that 27-32 is the golden age for women to date. They have the most/best options during those years.
Karl R 26
Bill said: (#24)
“I am in the marketing and sales industry. [...] women who are physically attractive especially youthful are wanted more by men than accomplished.”
Presumably you’re not marketing and selling women. Therefore I’m wondering, what is your source for this information?
If you’re basing your statement purely on your own experiences, why is your anecdotal evidence more accurate than Stacy’s (#25)?
starthrower68 27
@Karl #26,
I’d even delve a little deeper into this subject. Just because men may want the more physically attractive especially youthful women doesn’t mean they necessarily make the bet partners. Assuming of course a man who ends up with such a woman is truly looking for a partner. Not all extremely attractive and young women are poor partners and not all of them are good. Physical attraction is a factor, there’s no denying it. But content of character is what makes the relationship successful.
Goldie 28
Where are all these men who purposely look for a woman half their age for an LTR/marriage? I don’t even see them on dating sites, most profiles I’ve seen state they’re looking for someone roughly in their age group.
Personally, I would find it absolutely awkward to be in a relationship with someone same age as my children.
Also, I believe this was discussed here before, in a thread/post about a 21yo girl who wanted to marry ASAP – at this age, your personality is still a work in progress. So marrying someone young (I believe the thread said 25 and younger) is a crapshoot – you may end up with a completely different person ten years down the road.
LOL @ first paragraph of Karl’s #26
Cat 29
Goldie, #28: the post you’re looking for is this one.
Lance 30
Is this a real letter? Seriously?
Would love to know her man’s perspective and get a good hard look at how he projects himself in their relationship. Does he still make himself attractive, act like a confident man, and live a bold and passionate life? These are the things that sustain passion for a lifetime. If he’s too comfortable and not taking charge, then sure the lust/passion will fade. Otherwise, it sounds like she’s got it pretty good.
jrd 31
My guess is that Bill @ #13 spends time at a male-centered site where one of the tenets is that women have a use by date of 25.
Lance 32
@Bill @Stacy, actually Bill is completely right. Men could care less about accomplishment and look at looks and attractiveness first and foremost. Hardly news. Bill doesn’t state an age range, so it’s possible that his definition of “youthfulness” extends to your range.
Cat 33
Lance, #31: Of course, all the letters here are real. Seriously. At most they are shortened to fit the space.
That’s what Evan would write if he didn’t have his first child born yesterday-literally. Congrats, Evan!
And Lance, when have we ever heard both sides: letter writer and the object of her letter? I think her question is valid for her age and experience. From those of us older and wiser, keep him or let us have him! A lot of lust/passion is based on uncertainty. That won’t exist after three years (unless it’s a really dysfunctional relationship, in which case, the answer would be to dump him.) I think since she’s still attracted to him and enjoying the sex + says he’s her soulmate and makes her feel so awesome, yeah, she should marry him!
Diana Brown 34
Evan, the person who wrote this letter to you doesn’t seem genuine enough. Did she just make up this relationship? I mean the way she described her relationship seems a bit fake. Why would you ever describe your relationship as “without lust”?
most likely i’m being overly judgmental and overly analytical here but based on what I read it doesn’t seem like a “real” relationship.
A-L 35
Congratulations on the baby’s birth, Evan!
starthrower68 36
@Lance #32,
Ok so it is what it is. Looks first and foremost. And if that’s the most important thing then no complaining about women beng gold diggers, psychotic, etc.
Steve 37
@Karl #26
How not to make this sound harsh to either you or Bill? While the marketing industry isn’t a giant prostitution ring like you wrote, they do use women’s sex appeal to sell people everything from toothpaste to cars. Given that is all about pure looks that explains Bill’s opinion.
Goldie 38
@Lance #32, actually Bill does specify the age range, see comment #13 – apparently a 27yo woman is past her prime… tee hee hee
my 2 cents.
As for the letter, I suspect there is something else going on, otherwise the letter sounds pretty pointless. I mean, it’s a known fact that this red-hot physical attraction fades after 18 months or so – the letter is stating the obvious. Either the letter-writer is pulling our leg, or there are other concerns that she’s not telling us about
I found the letter useful anyway – it’s a good guideline for what our end goal should be in this weird dating game
@ Cat #33, wow, congrats Evan!! My first baby is turning 18 in three days, what a coincidence
Stacy 39
Lance #32
Actually, he does specify the age and nobody said nothing about accomplishments on the side of a woman. So you may want to read more carefully.
Steve #37
If he really was in the industry, he’d know that most models work into their late 20-ies, and some continue working after they give birth. Jeez.
Stacy 40
…and I apologize for multiple posts, but to illustrate the point:
In 2010:
The average age of Vogue cover models in the past year is 34.5; Harper’s Bazaar, 32.5; Elle, 31.6; InStyle, 34.2; and W, 34.9.
Their marketing guys must really be sleeping on the job!!
Honey 41
@Stacy, #40, know a lot of fellas who subscribe to those magazines, do you?
What are the average ages of those on the cover of Playboy, Maxim, GQ, etc?
Stacy 42
Honey #41
The circulation of Vogue and other fashion magazines is comparable to those of playboy and maxim. All these numbers are public. As to the age of the models, the age range of playboy cover models is between 18 (youngest legal in the US) to 35 (January 2003 cover). Hope this helps!
Steve 43
@Honey #41. You win the “Shrewd Point Of The Evening” award.
As far as the marketing, modeling, advertising world goes, I think Bill is right that things begin to change after 24. I don’t think that is the case for the dating and romance world. Unless someone gets hitched 24 is just the start.
Jadafisk 44
Most of the publications named – even (US) Vogue, primarily feature actresses and singers on the covers now, not models. The shelf life of an actress is longer by a decade or more. Models often start in their mid-teens and are done by the time that the entertainment career of a singer or actress is nearing its peak and at the time that most non-entertainment folks’ careers begin – in the mid 20s. Also, Hef is obsessed with college-aged women in their early 20s… the 35 year old is definitely an outlier – probably a bigger name, possibly attempting to revive a flagging career because that’s about the time that a female actress of meager gifts begins to fade, and a stint in Playboy is a common refuge for such cases.*
That being said, (as Steve said) the world of relationships is going to be different. Ad execs care if 16 year old boys find the female lead in a movie/show/commercial appealing - they care a LOT. Your average woman has nothing to lose if that pool of males becomes disinterested in her. The main issue is that of a shrinking pool of singles when dates are chosen by a metric of dater’s age +__, as women often do.
Lance – so… how do “objectively” (like 8 out of 10 consensus) unattractive women marry? They do it all of the time.
Also, what *about* the exhortations to “marry him?” Is she supposed to ask, because apparently he hasn’t.
*And… it’s Tia Carrere. Am I right or am I right?
Annie 45
I think the offence to Bill’s comments are more related to how the woman in his scenario’s worth is primarily determined by her looks. Her looks decline, her worth declines, at least that is the implication.
It is like valueing a man, on the amount of money he earns, another thing that Bill is implying. What a Sad way to view your own capacity as a human. Looks…vs Money.
If I had have gotten married when I looked my best, I’d be a divorce statistic. Good thing I didn’t use my looks, to try and “rope em in” but made a half-assed attempt to be honest about my capacity to handle a marriage.
And anyway, if a guy sees your value as less, because you look worse, then do you really want him? The difference in me now, and me back when I was a hottie(yes I was a hottie) is indescribible.
Why do people value that which doesn’t really matter in the long run?
Lance 46
@Stacy et al, yes Bill did state an age range earlier and I missed it, so my mistake. in the online dating world, which is relevant to this discussion because much of Evan’s content is focused towards online daters, men do search for younger women and this is proven statistically. See this great article on OKTrends that anaylzes it:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-case-for-an-older-woman/
Quote:
“A woman’s desirability peaks at 21, which, ironically enough is the age that men just begin their “prime,” i.e. become more desirable than average. Following that dotted line out, statistically speaking, a woman’s desirability
peaks at 21, you can see that a woman of 31 is already ‘past her prime,’ while a man doesn’t become so until 36.”
Personally, I LOVE women in the “older” age range (25 – 35) because, from my experience, they’re better in the sack. The article bears this out by calling this group more sex positive.
Stacy 47
Lance #46
That statistical interpretation is interesting but it is, unfortunately completely useless. As the article states, 2/3 of their men demograpics is men under 30. Do I need to say more? No shit, sherlock, for these guys a 21-22 is the most desirable age. At the same time, the number of men who’d date a 21yo falls off the cliff for over 30 yo demographics and is zero for those older than 35. My statistics professor just loved dissecting the “damned lies” in class for our entertainment back in the day – perhaps I should send it over to him for the benefit of the next generation
Stacy 48
Jadafisk #44
What difference does it make if they’re models, actresses, singers whatever. They’re featured on Vouge because they’re beautiful women. And as cusrious as it may be, the January 2003 playboy featuring a 35 yo model (also actress, singer and what not) was the top-selling issue of that year.
I agree with you that it is an outlier and everything else you said about playboy. The sad fact is that a great deal of their models never make it to their 30th birthday at all. The more “hardcore”, the faster women get chewed up. That’s why I specifically excluded porn actresses/models, escorts and the like from my argument.
Christie Hartman 49
@Bill – Thanks for making what would have been a pretty dull commentary into a good debate. Of course, what you say may apply in some industries (porn, modeling). but it does not apply in industry that matters – the DATING industry. That’s my industry. There’s no evidence to support what you’re saying.
@Lance – Yes, men do look at attractiveness “first and foremost,” but just because they check out looks first doesn’t mean that’s all they care about or that accomplishments don’t matter. Physical attraction alone will not sustain a relationship. I’ve seen the OK Cupid study, and what Stacy alludes to is correct – statistics are only as useful as the sample you analyze. And, other studies have shown that what people seek online does not often reflect what they’ll date offline.
Goldie 50
@#44,48
If we’re arguing purely physical beauty, I’d say women that are being featured on Vogue are a combination of good looks, class, and accomplishment. You won’t get on the Vogue cover simply for looking great, you’d have to be a somebody, or else the reader won’t be interested. So it stands to reason that these women would be older.
For a list of who gets chosen for their looks alone, I’d say this is a better reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Miss_Universe_titleholders You will see that most of these girls are 18-20, the oldest being the ripe old age of 26.
Not that all of this has any bearing whatsoever on a woman’s standing as a potential LTR partner. I’m not a man, but something tells me guys have a different set of criteria for choosing a life companion than they would for choosing the next Miss Universe or a magazine-cover model, no?
Karl R 51
Goldie asked: (#50)
“something tells me guys have a different set of criteria for choosing a life companion than they would for choosing the next Miss Universe or a magazine-cover model, no?”
Depends on the guy.
However, I don’t care whether Miss Universe or the cover girl is constantly annoying. I don’t expect to meet her. With my significant other (whom I see every morning/evening), her personality takes on a much higher significance.
But I have known men who have chosen their life partners stupidly.
To put it simply/crudely, if a woman is going to make my life miserable for the next 30-40 years, I don’t want to marry her. Even if she’s the most beautiful woman in the world.
Miss Universe should be nice to look at. My life partner should be nice to live with. To any man with foresight, the difference between those two should be obvious.
Jadafisk 52
When I was 19-21, the lion’s share of the men who were paying attention to me were in their 30s. I wondered what was wrong with me because of this, pined after my age peers and spent my weekends alone. My mid-20s have been much, much better in comparison.
Stacy – the vast majority of single men are going to be under 30. That being said, what types of relationships are these men looking for with 18-21 year olds online?
Also, much is said about the peak marriageability age for women, but where’s the “sweet spot” for guys? What’s the age where they’re most likely to ask someone to marry, between the point where they’re still “playing the field” (early 20s) and the point that it’s generally assumed that if they haven’t been married already, they probably don’t want to marry at all (somewhere in the mid 40s)? Where would a wise woman concentrate her energies?
#48 Because they’re valued for attributes encompassing but not limited to their physical beauty… their personality, style, talent and relateability. That’s why they eventually supplanted models – that combined with a concerted effort in fashion to take the focus off of the models and onto the clothes after the “age of the supers,” when models started to become celebrities in their own right and combined world class physical beauty with distinctive personas.* It’s not a 1:1 comparison because of those powerful confounding variables that contribute to public interest and popularity.
*which likewise contributed to a much longer “run” than average for those models in particular
Stacy 53
Jadafisk:
my experience is largely the same as yours.
It is probably true that the majority of single men is going to be under 30, but the majority of 30yo women are going to be dating guys in their mid-late 30-ies and 40ies anyway, so what 23yo guys find attractive is highly irrelevant for this group of women, but what 25-40yo find attractive is.
As to peak marriageability for men (love the term!), i think there’s no such thing. As Jack Donaghy put it in 30 rock “rich 50 is middle class 38″.
Honey 54
@Stacy, #42 – my point, which you are obviously deliberately ignoring, is that regardless of circulation numbers, WOMEN’S magazines sell women what WOMEN want to believe, and MEN’S magazines sell men what MEN want to believe.
Women want to believe that they are beautiful when they’re in their 30s. They also want to believe that accomplishments (say, acting) are at least as important as looks. Poof! There are your cover models.
Men want to believe that 18-25 year olds are lining up for them. Poof! 18 year olds with fake ta-tas on the cover of those magazines.
What I am saying is that who is on the cover of magzines that are primarily purchased by women does not say anything about what men find attractive.
Stacy 55
Honey #54
I am not “ignoring” your point, I’ve disproved it. The facts show that men-oriented magazines sell just as well or better when they feature “older” models in 27-35 range. This is where your point goes poof.
There’s numerous reasons for men magazines to feature 18-yo, mostly financial and availability issues (who’s more available for a nude photo shoot, a multi-millionaire CK face 27yo or a dumb midwestern 18yo willing to work fo food?), etc. – it is business after all.
As to what exactly men and women magazines sell, you’re dead wrog on this one. They do not sell what men/women want to believe (in that case Vogue models USA edition would be size 10), they sell people their dreams. And just as every horny guy out there is dreaming about a hot chick, women are dreaming about being beautiful and desired by men. Fashion models exemplify that dream, and are, in fact, high;y saught after by men.
Honey 56
@Stacy, I find your data and reasoning flawed.
A-L 57
Jadafisk asked, “Also, much is said about the peak marriageability age for women, but where’s the “sweet spot” for guys? What’s the age where they’re most likely to ask someone to marry, between the point where they’re still “playing the field” (early 20s) and the point that it’s generally assumed that if they haven’t been married already, they probably don’t want to marry at all (somewhere in the mid 40s)? Where would a wise woman concentrate her energies?”
In the “My Faith Boyfriend Wants to Get a Better Job Before We Get Married” thread I did some research on typical marrying ages (posts 23, 24, & 28). Here’s the most relevant portions:
Median age of first marriage for women: 25.6
Median age of first marriage for men: 27.5
49.2% of men 25-29 have never married
29.6% of men 30-34 have never married
17.9% of men 35-44 have never married
9.7% of men 45-54 have never married
38.1% of women 25-29 have never married
21.9% of women 30-34 have never married
13.4% of women 35-44 have never married
8% of women 45-54 have never married
From what I recall of the statistics, if a guy hasn’t married by the time he hits 44, he’s not likely to do so. And about 90% of men who are going to marry have done so by the time they hit 34 (assuming that the 9.7% of never married men age 45+ are never going to marry). So for men I’d say that the greatest pool of marriage-interested men is 25-34, but if you find a marriage-minded man 35-44 then he’s likely looking to fast-track the relationship.
Evan Marc Katz 58
A-L,
Thanks for the stats, but they don’t make total sense to me.
If 70% of men have been married by age 35 and 95% have been married by 65, it sounds to me like it’s actually exceedingly LIKELY that a man will get married after 34. This is how statistics can be made to misrepresent the truth.
Second of all, the greatest pool of marriage-interested men doesn’t necessarily mean the greatest pool of marriage-READY men, especially given that Elizabeth Gilbert statistic from Commmitted that 75% of marriages in which the participants are under 25 end in divorce.
From where I sit, the sweet spot for men is 35-40 (at least educated, successful men in big cities). Out of my five closest college friends, ALL of us got married between 35-38. For whatever that’s worth.
EMK
A-L 59
Evan,
I think the commenters in this blog are outliers. Yeah, I didn’t get married until I was 30. Most of my closest college friends will have gotten married between 29-32. BUT, we’re not the norm. I went to college in Indiana where lots of people got married right out of college. And of those that I know about, all but one couple are still married 9 years later. Some were engineers, while others were went through medical or law school together. Where I work (as a teacher) in Louisiana, most of the staff married their spouse in their 20s, and are still together. Obviously getting married at a young age wasn’t for me, but it does work for many. I think big city folks skew the results here.
Getting back to the statistics, let’s look at the breakdown again.
Men 25-34: 50% of men are still available. If a guy is single at 25 there is a 65% chance he’ll be married before he hits 35, and only 10% of this pool will never marry.
Men 35-44: Only 18% of men are still available. If a guy is single at 35 there’s a 45% chance he’ll get married before the age of 45 and a 28% chance that he never will.
Men 45-54: Only 9.7% of men are still available. If a guy is single at 45 there’s a 28% chance he’ll be married before he turns 55, and there’s a 50% chance that he will never marry.
Jadafisk wanted to know the age at which most guys are most likely to ask someone to get married. That time is 25-34. Not that guys aren’t getting married after that, but it’s dropping significantly.
And as a female, I’d want the largest pool of men to choose from. I’d want a pool of men where most guys want to get married, and I’m unlikely to end up with someone who will never want to marry, or doesn’t want to marry for a couple more decades.
By the time we get to 35, 82% of men have already been picked over.
Though there are definitely some winners in the older brackets, there’s a lot more competition for those men. And for what the rest of that older bracket contains…it’s slim pickings. You get more of the commitment-phobes, the players, the socially awkward, those who still haven’t cut the apron-ties to Mommy (Yes, I’m stealing from you.) So yeah, I think the statistics are relevant.
Ava 60
A-L #59
<<Though there are definitely some winners in the older brackets, there’s a lot more competition for those men. And for what the rest of that older bracket contains…it’s slim pickings. You get more of the commitment-phobes, the players, the socially awkward, those who still haven’t cut the apron-ties to Mommy>>
And you forgot another category: the strange and crazy ones. This is what I’m dealing with now.
Diana 61
I recently read that the average age to get married in the US is 26 for women and 28 for men.
Selena 62
How do the stats factor for divorce A_L? Most of the men I’ve known were married before the age of 35, but a good number of them found themselves single again at some point. So if one is looking at an age range above age 34, are 82% of men currently married? Or have been married? Would make a big difference as far as an availability pool I would think.
Karl R 63
Selena asked: (#62)
“So if one is looking at an age range above age 34, are 82% of men currently married? Or have been married?”
Have been married. Here are the currently married stats for 2010:
MALE
25-29: 32.6%
30-34: 54.6%
35-39: 64.4%
40-44: 65.2%
45-49: 66.1%
50-54: 68.5%
55-64: 71.8%
65-74: 76.4%
75-84: 71.8%
85+: 57.7%
FEMALE
25-29: 44.1%
30-34: 59.8%
35-39: 65.5%
40-44: 66.6%
45-49: 65.1%
50-54: 64.8%
55-64: 64.6%
65-74: 54.6%
75-84: 37.3%
85+: 17.7%
Selena 64
Thanks Karl. 30+ % of males over 35 being single seems more reflective of our society than 18%.
So about 1/3 of all men in your age ranges are available ladies – that translates to millions – not all the good ones have been taken.
Jadafisk 65
How likely are men to get married again if they’ve already done so in the past, however? One of the major incentives they have for doing so – children – is already fulfilled in many cases, they may have become “gun shy” at best, totally disinterested at “worst” because of their last experience, and even if they are willing to take the plunge again, there’s some merit to the gun shyness - second marriages are less successful than first marriages.
A-L 66
Hey Selena,
The only figures I have is from the other post, which is from the 2000 census, combining divorced and never marrieds (the number of widowed was negligible). I’m just pasting those in:
53.8% of men 25-29
37.6% of men 30-34
29.9% of men 35-44
24.4% of men 45-54
44.7% of women 25-29
39.9% of women 30-34
27.9% of women 35-44
26% of women 45-54
It’s interesting how the info has altered from 2000, to 2010 (I’m assuming yours are the 2010 census, Karl?). In 2000, 30% of men 35-44 were available whereas now it’s 35%. For men 45-54 there used to be 24% available but now it’s about 33%. Looks like men are choosing to stay single longer (or just stay single). Which also means that there’s a larger dating pool for women. But Jadafisk does bring up a good point…how many men want to get remarried? Where would we even locate a source for this data?
Selena 67
Ha ha A_L
I don’t know where one would find such data. I’m guessin’ they don’t know they want to get remarried until they meet the woman who makes it seem not such a bad idea?
Karl R 68
A-L asked: (#66)
“I’m assuming yours are the 2010 census, Karl?”
The U.S. 2010 Current Population Survey, which is derived from the census.
A-L asked: (#66)
“how many men want to get remarried?”
About 75% of men and women remarry.
A-L asked: (#66)
“Where would we even locate a source for this data?”
Here and here and here and here and here.
A-L 69
Thanks, Karl! Don’t have time to look at the links right now, but I’ll check them out later. Hope y’all have a great day!