If I’m a Great Woman, Why Haven’t I Met Anyone Else Great?
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Wow. Where do I start? I’m 42, and have never been married, and I guess that I have been dating idiots, or men who are not even dating material for the last 10 years. People always ask me why I am still single, I get all the popular comments, like “Oh, that’s a shame, still single at your age”. It’s ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with me, I’m athletic, been told I am attractive, outgoing, and I enjoy sports, and all sorts of out door activities, and have a great circle of friends, so why after all this time have I not met anyone? My last serious relationship was back in college! I’ve dated on and off for a few months to a year, only to have things crash and burn for one reason or another. What am I doing wrong? I’ve tried the online dating, only to become seriously jaded by it all. I do have an open mind, and have even considered meeting and dating guys I normally would not. But nothing ever comes from it. Do I give up? I’m tired of friends telling me that when I least expect it, I will meet someone great, well, I have not been expecting it, and it never came. What now? 
Lauren
Dear Lauren,
I’m reminded of a story that Rich Gosse, the founder of AmericanSingles, once shared with me. It was an amazing response to how he dealt with skeptical press inquiries about his new business model.
“What kind of loser (I’m paraphrasing here) would go to an online dating site to meet someone?” the press would ask.
To which Rich would reply: ‘Well, there are a number of people out there who are socially awkward. There are a number of people who are somewhat weak and needy. There are a number of people who are so desperate for companionship that they’d do anything to avoid being alone. I call these people ‘married people’.”
I thought that was a brilliant answer. After all, there’s no special skill for getting married. Buy a ring, take a vow, and you’re married. It’s why I’ve never once worried about my qualifications to give dating advice. I don’t suddenly get smarter if I propose to my girlfriend. And if she dumped me, I wouldn’t suddenly get dumber.
All of this is me saying that there’s nothing wrong with being single. …
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75 Comments »Filed Under Dating, Sex
Susan 1
You know, Evan, usually I agree with your posts so much. But you’ve lost me on this one. I read it with great interest, because I’m a 38-year-old woman in the same boat. I’m perfectly nice, average-looking, intelligent and intellectual, funny, creative, etc.
Yes, I’ve done internet dating. I’m not doing it any more. I am SO SICK of these men who are fives (or lower) who all think they’re going to wind up with super models. There probably isn’t one guy that I wouldn’t have given a second chance, but out of many, many men only two of them ever gave me a second date. You may read this and think I’m a terrible date, but I’m self aware enough to know I’m not a disaster. I’m very good at talking to people, and those dates went reasonably well. But blonde-haired, blue-eyed, and buxom though I am, a super model I’m not. Personally, I don’t feel the need to subject myself to that kind of rejection any more. These men online are either not serious or they’re deeply deluded about who they’ll wind up with. Either way, it’s not good for me.
Incidentally, I read that book about finding a husband after 35. I found it offensive. No, it is not like finding a job. You know what I’m doing to meet a man? I’m having a rich and active life. I’m out almost every night of the week, at lectures, readings, arts events, classes, club meetings, and various social functions. And not typically with a gaggle of female friends. In fact, often I’m alone and very approachable. I pursue things that interest me, and I’m friendly and open to meeting people who share those interests. I have a large circle of friends and acquaintances. I accept frequent invitations and meet their friends and friends of friends. I do all kinds of volunteer work. I run a very social book group that meets in a bar. I’m always open to new experiences (rodeo, anyone?). I have a LIFE. I’m not sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. And I *literally* can’t remember the last time a man I met in any way or setting asked me out. It’s been years. I don’t date at all.
Oh, and for the record, I did try asking men out when I was younger. I found them to be polite and non-committal, as in, “That’d be great. We should definitely do that some time.” Now I’m old and grumpy. Why do I have to approach the man? I would kind of hope the man could show enough interest to actually approach me in some way, shape, or form. By the time he’s in his 40′s, he should have his act together a little. If asking out a woman is hard, it’s about a million times harder for a woman to ask a man out because we’re defying gender roles. And I’m not saying I wouldn’t do it again, but honestly, I haven’t been tempted in a long time.
I would not describe myself as picky at all. I’m not looking for a movie star. I don’t care if he has money, career, or car. I’m just looking for a guy who’s nice to me, makes me laugh, and uses his brain. It’s been a long time since I met a man I was really interested in.
I’ve been reading your blog with great interest, Evan. I may pick up the phone one day and pursue your services. But don’t tell me to pursue this like a job hunt. I can hear how defensive I sound, but I’ve earned my baggage. My parents celebrated their 40th anniversary this week. I never thought I’d be spending my entire adult life alone. And goddamn celebate! This is not the life I ordered. And as nice as you are, Evan, I don’t think you’ll ever truly understand what it’s like to be a single woman of a certain age, because it’s a different experience for men. It’s a different world.
Sorry, you touched a nerve. Rant over.
singleinnewyorkcity 2
i AGREE with Susan on all points especially the point about online dating. I’m a single and atrractive 30 year old. I’ve done EVERYTHING and believe me…EVERYTHING to find someone who I feel a connection with. The whole “give a guy you wouldnt ordinarily be interested in a chance” doesnt work. From my experience these guys wind up acting like all the others and begin to think that they’re doing you a favor! Seroiusly Evan are all guys in this city delusional. This city is made up of guys who are (on a scale from 1 – 10; 10 being a supermodel) a 5 but think they are a 10 and want girls that are 10s also. I’ve been told that I’m too picky so I decided to relax my standards and this is what I find! Susan I feel your pain.
shellacked 3
Men can smell fear and bitterness from a mile away. No matter how active your social life, no matter how put together you may seem, no matter how well you’ve perfected a feigned nonchalance at your singledom, men will be able to tell if you’re freaked out about your age & dating status.
You just have to truly internalize your acceptance of being single. I know it’s one of the hardest things a woman of a certain age can do, but it’s absolutely necessary.
No man wants to go out with a woman when he senses he’s expected to be the making of her happiness. Conversely, no guy wants to go out with a woman who preemptively expects him to disappoint her.
At a later age, it’s even more incumbent on the woman to be able to live and enjoy purely in the moment.
Li-Anne 4
First of all – Evan, I just wanted to say that I’ve really enjoyed reading your site. A lot of what you have written is not only well written but makes a great deal of sense.
I do have to wholeheartedly agree with and confirm what was just written by Susan and “singleinnewyorkcity”. I have the past 10 – 15 years of experience to go by. My experience, and that of several of my close friends, agrees with everything they have written. We all share the experience of finding that through our 30s up to 40s we simply do not get asked out. We’re all slim, educated, good jobs, pleasant, etc. It makes no difference. We all have a big social network – but any men out there seem to be already attached.
In fact, when I do get approached, it has often been a married guy hoping for a fling on the side. I do get approached by men more frequently than my friends – (they think it is because I’m big busted) – but that is of absolutely ZERO help in terms of getting a serious relationship. The nicest men all seem to already have someone in their life. The ones who do find the courage to ask me out are all either wanting a night stand, no strings attached sex, or have an affair. I’m no further ahead.
As for asking men out – I again agree with the above comments. Perhaps you don’t feel like that – but the vast majority of men lose interest or respect you less once you ask them out. This gets you nowhere – suddenly the men think you are desperate, or you wouldn’t have to ask. They might go out with you, but then you are back to square one as they just think it will be free sex. Since they don’t respect you, they don’t feel you are “special” enough to commit to. I asked some of my male friends about this and they all confirmed that they feel that the best looking women don’t need to ask for dates. And since men are unfortunately generally initially only focused on looks – they don’t want to go with a woman they feel has no options. I wish things were different, but as you’ve written elsewhere on this site – that is just the way it is.
I’m seriously confused by all this. At this point – the rejection is really difficult to take. Life is too short to spend it feeling miserable. I’m really starting to think that it is just a numbers game – there are so many more women out there looking for a serious relationship than there are men. Sure – there are some men who want to get married, but it as if they are “snapped” up right away like some kind of competition. They feel they can afford to be choosy. That’s probably what makes men who are, as described in the previous comments, “twos to fives”, who think they can still get a woman who is a perfect “ten”.
Evan Marc Katz 5
I want to thank Susan, Single and Li-Anne for giving it to me straight. I’m a big boy. I can take it. Still, I want to respond to a few points in as brief a fashion as I’m capable of.
1) Asking men out – I didn’t mean going up to a guy in a bar and saying, “Hey, big boy, buy me a drink.” And I do agree that in “real life” men who are interested will show their interest. But online, when there are thousands and thousands of options, I am positive that a woman is well-served to take her love life into her own hands by saying hi to a guy. The best relationships I’ve ever had online were from women who wrote to me first. My point was simply this: if you’re not writing to men, you should be. And if you are writing to them and getting no replies, ask yourself if you’re doing all you can to maximize your chances. Do have a great photo, essay, and email technique? If not, there are resources for you at http://www.evanmarckatz.com that can give you an edge.
2) It’s very important for me if you get this next part: Contrary to what Susan said, I do understand women in their 40′s. I know, I’m a 35 year old single guy, blahblahblah. But you know who the majority of my clients are? Women 38-55. So believe me when I tell you that I know all the stories. I feel all the pain. And I couldn’t be more sympathetic.
Which makes this next fact seem even more unsympathetic.
Neither you nor I can do ANYTHING about “men”. Which is why I see little to no value in putting any blame on them for all of their faults. I agree that men can be shallow and clueless and selfish and all of the other accusations leveled at them. So what? What are you going to do IN SPITE of that?
THAT is what my article – and my entire blog, for that matter – is all about. Acting in spite of the frustration, in spite of the pain, in spite of the rejection. Men are pigs. Men are shallow. Men don’t value me. It’s not fair, it’s not right, it just IS. I’m not saying that you’re wrong. I’m saying that your only choice is to find the men who are NOT that way. And I can assure you that a negative attitude about men and dating is NOT the way to attract that rare special guy who does exist in the universe.
And, controversial though it might be, there ARE decent men who are looking for a serious relationship. You know how I know? Because they’re the REST of my clients. People don’t pay two grand for a dating coach if they just want to get laid.
To sum up, I’m not placing the blame on women for being single. That would be too simplistic. I’m saying that the only person you can change is YOU. Are you going to be a victim, or are you going to be an inspiration who refuses to give up? I know what I want to be.
Two other points before we wrap up here.
1) The reason it sometimes seems I’m “picking on” women is because women are the ones who write 95% of the emails to me. If men wrote me any questions, I can assure you, they’d be similarly introduced to the same harsh reality. Which is why…
2) I’m going to be writing a long blog post about shallow men, because they’re the primary cause of all of these problems.
Keep reading. Keep writing. Keep the faith.
Much love,
Evan
Sam 6
Susan,
You have the right to be bitter, but don’t give up on online dating. You seem great. If I read your profile online (and we were age compatible), I’d ask you out. If I saw you at a museum, reading, or art event I might check you out, but I wouldn’t know what an interesting person you were and I wouldn’t know that you were child free.
JimmyE 7
As Evan said, he doesn’t know Lauren, he only knows what Lauren writes about herself. Consequently, he can’t tell her anything about her dating habits which she might not be aware of.
My advice-
One day when you’re feeling good about yourself, ask a friend why they think you’ve been unsuccessful so far in your search. Stress that you’re not looking for validation, or a magic bullet, and don’t try to argue with them and dispute their observations. Try asking men, try asking people who aren’t your closest friends, you might get a more honest answer.
lyric 8
I feel for you ladies because I too am going through a similar situation. There are times when I feel so tired and sorry for myself. Good thing is that I’d just sleep on it and when tomorrow comes, I’m up and about and back on track. Harmless flirting online or not is fun! Actually I try not to make this (looking for a partner) a “problem”. I refuse to be pressured by it because it’ll take away all the fun that goes with it. I keep in mind that this is not the only thing that matters. I’m also slowly conditioning myself to accept the possibility of me not getting married.
I know that everything has a reason so if by any chance I will stay single it’s because someone up there needs me for something else. But right now while we are still desirable ladies (Susan, singleinNYC, Li-Anne) like what Evan says, we are going to be an inspiration who refuses to give up!!:)
Judy 9
I think we always worry about getting married and settling down too much. Of course everyone thinks about it, and at a certain point, we all want that “special someone” but I’ve found that when you AREN’T looking for something serious, it just tend to fall into your lap. I just recently read this great book called “Lessons About Life Mamma Never Taught Us” about all the trials and tribulations that three generations of women have gone through (and the oldest is not married, and still completely happy with life). Just don’t let you relationships define you… Define Yourself!!!
http://www.happyabout.info/lessons-about-life.php
JB 10
For every woman that tells us about her “situation” that exists like this, there’s a man somewhere that feels the same way and is in the same situation. Like Evan said he just doesn’t write in to complai…..I mean
tell him/us about it. Evan’s always quick to point out all of men’s so called “faults” for the ladies on here. Both men AND women have faults.
It’s impossible to judge why someone can’t find a relationship unless you really know a lot about them. The way they look,thier personality,issues etc……..
Shari 11
I know Evan has written against this in the past, but when I got tired of the online dating guys I’d been meeting I changed my parameters, I decided to not limit myself to someone within a 50 mile radius of where I lived. Who’s to say that true love is within a certain distance? I knew I didn’t want to look outside the US but I figured to open myself to the entire country, not this little portion of it. What happened is a guy, online, saw my photo and wrote me the sweetest e-mail about how he’d love to get to know me better but we’re too far away – 1100 miles apart. I thought it might be a line at first, something he threw at everyone. But the more we corresponded, the more I realized he was for real. I can see the difficulties in a long distance relationship, but I think if it’s approached with the right state of mind, it can work. But both have to understand what it means and be okay with the limitations, allow things to move slowly because letting it run rampant only causes more frustrations, and maybe most importantly, be open to relocation if anything serious develops.
Evan, you wrote about a long distance romance that for you, turned into a long distance one night stand. Thing is, anything can turn into a one night stand, even that guy who lives a block away could do that to me. I think the danger in having that happen is not taking time to know who you’re dealing with before taking major steps to become serious. But maybe opening oneself to something that doesn’t fit the mold as far as distance goes, could make a difference as much as going outside the box in looks, income or education. It did for me.
Erika 12
Ok, here’s my story. I live in Los Angeles, I’m 37 and I have no problem getting dates. I’m single, smart, and cute, but I wouldn’t consider myself a 9 or 10. An 8, perhaps. At one point I was on four online dating sites (Nerve, Match, Yahoo, and OkCupid).
Here are my stats:
This is over an 18 month period:
33 men
54+ dates
16 men I only went on one date with
10 men I went on two dates with
2 men I went on three dates with
1 man four dates
3 men I dated for two months or more
I’ve dated all kinds: Asian, Latino, African-American, Caucasian, etc. Bald, shorter than me, one had kids, several had dogs. All had decent jobs (except for one struggling actor. I do live in LA, after all!)
Currently I am dating someone I met on OkCupid. We have been dating for 2 months. It’s promising.
Of those 33, I would say there were 8-10 with whom I had chemistry, but compatibility was an issue, and four of them were not looking for a relationship.
Of all of those dates, only 2 of those men were actual losers. The rest were good, decent men. Sometimes they liked me but I didn’t like them, sometimes I liked them but they didn’t like me…
So I have to agree with Evan. There are really good men out there. I know at least 31 of them! A few of them I now consider to be good friends.
Some of them contacted me, and others I contacted on my own. I used headlines such as these:
“Prone to sudden, ferocious crushes”
“Breaking hearts, taking prisoners”
“Now with 100% more moxie”
“Please, try to keep up”
“Putting the rarin’ back in librarian”
Here are some of the email subject lines I’ve used:
“Cat Got Your Tongue?”
“I’m suitably impressed. Commence wooing!”
“Go on–wink at me! I give great email.”
The thing is, you actually have to think about your profile and what you write in your emails.
The old saying is right: Garbage in=garbage out. You only get out of it what you put into it. If you make a half-hearted effort, take shortcuts, or get lazy, you’re only going to get similar results.
singleinnewyorkcity 13
i hear you Evan on the “all you can do is change yourself” . I just feel that women are always pressured into compromising! why can’t we have high standards? why can’t we demand certain things from men? i think if more women DIDN’T comprimise we wouldn’t have the shallow delusional men that exist today. HAVE STANDARDS FOR YOURSELF LADIES AND STOP LOWERING THEM!
Evan Marc Katz 14
Hey Single,
It’s not about demanding that the world change to meet your needs; it’s about changing to accommodate the realities of the world. You’d prefer to live in fantasy-land where women actually change men. Sorry, darlin’…not on my blog.
Ben Franklin said it best: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.
So have your high standards. Demand things from men. Never compromise.
You don’t need me to tell you where that’ll leave you.
With love,
Evan
JimmyE 15
To Single,
If men are “delusional” then presumably it doesn’t matter what women do. Men will go on seeking out their unrealistic fantasies despite endless rejection and disappointment. How do you expect men’s behaviour would change if you managed to enforce this “women’s cartel” in dating?
Also, whenever men and women talk about how much harder their sex has it, I’m inclined to wonder- How do you know?. We spend our whole lives on one side of the dating fence, yet few of us seem to stop to wonder if this makes us a touch myopic when it comes to analysing differences between the sexes.
Sam 16
“Also, whenever men and women talk about how much harder their sex has it,”
Neither side has it harder. There’s an enormous amount of overlap in dating ease. How many options you have depends on your career, your looks, your intelligence, and your social skills. You hear less about lonely women, but since G’d/nature makes equal numbers of men and women, for every lonely woman there’s a lonely man.
Know how 10% of the population has about 90% of the wealth? I think male dating works similarly. My theory is that the top 20% of men account for about 80% of all dating/sex. This guys, they might as well be called studs, are the ones who take women out, have sex with them, and don’t call back. These are the guys who don’t want to commit. These are the ones who give all men a bad name. These guys are far, far from a majority of the male population, but they account for a majority of the dating and thus create a lot of disappointed/embittered women.
Jen from NYC 17
Okay, I am addicted to this site. Evan can I become the spokes woman for internet dating success? Can’t hurt to ask. You know, I read this post and it all I can think about it how I felt going to every one of my girlfriend’s weddings, single. It made me think of the fact that I suggested and encouraged every one of my friends to try Internet dating and they succeeded with in one or two dates where it took me five years to find one great guy. But let me not digress, as I have already posted my story on a prior entry. So, with all that said, Lauren, I feel for you. Gd do I know what it is like to hear over and over again…
“When you least expect it!” I fucking hated people for saying that, especially married people. I agree with Evan. Nothing in life happens when you least expect it execept for maybe cancer and car accidents. Even someone who suffers a massive heart attack must have some prior knowledge that they were in poor health or living an unhealthy life style. My point is that I have learned that nothing, especially dating comes easy or just comes into your life with out a little blood, sweat, and yes, tears.
It sucks but you have to put in the time. That time is dating and dating, and dating some more. Do you have the time for me to tell you how many men I met on Jdate and the awful, extremely awful experience I had when I went to a Jewish Match Maker in New York City? (Shoshannas Matches). I laughed and I cried becaise I though it was a joke that dating was this hard. Then, I just stopped. I didnt stop dating, but I stopped complaining and I opened my eyes to the fact that I needed to be very aware of who I was chosing to meet and became exrtremely choosy about the guys I agreed to go on dates with. That was one step. (I balled out my match maker after setting me up on 6 of the 10 dates I was promised. I realized it really does take someone speacial to find someone elses b-shert, and that someone was me! Not some Jewish girl out to make a buck.) Step two was continuing to do all the work on myself in therapy that I had been doing for the past few years. You know you really will not find the right guy until you really know yourself. Talk about clich, but it is so true. My therapist and I always talk about the fact that who I was when I first stepped into her office was not the woman I am today. I worked hard to grow and learn about myself and also recognize what I needed and wanted for myself, and not what others think I needed. (In relation to men that is.) Lastly, and this is the corniest of all, I actually started telling myself on a daily basis that I will find my true love and how ever long it takes, I am willing to wait because I know he is out there.. But let me just say, that with saying this, I was still doing Internet dating and getting set up on blind dates, but I finally let go of all the bullshit of beleiving he will find me, or we will bump into each other in the grocery store. Please, I was single in New York City and the amount of single Jewish men is astouding and I not ONCE met a single guy on happenstance. Basically I am saying a lot of it has to do with attitude and once you can free yourself from thinking Why cant I meet anyone? and start thinking I will meet someone, you truly will be alone. All of those motivational speakers have a point; what you put out there is what you will get back.
Lastly, and I know I talk A LOT, let me just end by saying that you will continue to meet guys you are not interested and guys who want perfection, and guys who just suck. Again, give me two hours I will go down the lirst with you about how many men I met who told me I was pretty, but not skinny enough. Or my favorite, You are so fun to talk to. I never had a real conversation with a girl before. And lastly, the assholes who literally asked me if they could come home with me to have sex when they knew date #2 was not going to happen. Hey, I have to give them props for trying. But seriously, cut men some slack. There are truly wonderful men out there who do not represent all the other disasters you had to meet. I used to get angry after a date did not go well or the guy was a loser, but than I realized, somewhere out there is the guy who will just get me. And love me. And be mine. It took me 5 years.let me say it again. 5 years of dating and I found a great man! Granted, I am 31 so I am not making a comparison, but for all I know, had I not changed my attitude, I would be 41 And still single. Just remember love is not about being compatible on all levels, but many levels. And the guy you think you are going to wind up with, will not be that one at all. I can guarantee that I would have not dated my current boyfriend three years ago but I think Gd every day that I did meet him at 31 and have the sense and instincts to have known that this man was for me! Good luck. Jen
Jen from NYC 18
One last thing. I am an LMSW practicing in NYC which is why I tend to have a lot to say about these things. I am not some crazy girl rambling on pretending be a therapist on here, I do have some credentials!
Callebaut 19
I have been reading this blog for several weeks and it has helped me realize that while I thought my friends and I were the only ones in this boat, there are literally thousands of age 40+ (35+?) women in this situation. Given how few single men I know, and I work at a company that’s over 80 percent male, what are really the chances that one of us will meet someone for a long-term relationship, let alone get married/re-married? You can keep a positive attitude until you’re blue in the face but that doesn’t make any age appropriate, single men show up at your friend’s party or will sit next to you at a baseball game. But as my friends say, maybe, I’m just not desperate enough. To Sam who said that 20 percent of the single men account for 80 percent of the dates, I would ask, where are the other 80 percent?
lorelei 20
What’s a b-shert?
LS 21
Hi all,
Been through all that and more. I have been dating on the net for 4 years now. I’m 51 years old so to the girls who think it’s hard at 30-40 – think again. Although, I have had 397 dates so far and still dating. I will continue to date until I find a suitable long-term partner.
Firstly I had to learn that dating had changed and the world I knew was a thing of the past. What I did learn was that men in essence hadn’t changed but what needed to change was my approach to them.
These are some of the things I discovered for myself. The key indicator Attraction
And thats on both sides. If its not there moving heaven and earth wont change anything. To read profiles and e-mails more closely. Also to state my intentions clearly in my profile without being harsh. To both write and to respond to those who wrote to me. There are ways people write, that tell you all you need to know. If his looking for a woman 30 to 35 and his 55 that tells me his maturity level instantly. If sex is all he wants well guess what next and many more.
I will keep looking and dating until I find the one for me.
singleinnewyorkcity 22
Evan
I’m just using this as an example (so don’t take this literally!!)…..Say there was a world out there made up of single Evan Katz, and three other single ladies. Everyone is hetero and looking for a relationship but there is only one Evan!
So the women start lowering their standards and doing things they ordinarily wouldn’t do to capture your attention. If that were the case wouldn’t you then change the way you acted – maybe you wouldn’t call them as often, or call them at the last minute..,etc. You even said yourself ” I agree that men can be shallow and clueless and selfish and all of the other accusations leveled at them.” But what if one day all these girls stopped calling you, pursuing you or doing whatever they did before. Wouldn’t you then change the way you acted towards them? I’m just saying that even the nicest guy can act like an ass if he feels that he doesn’t have to “work” hard to get a girl. If women had high standards and made guys work they wouldn’t act the way they do…thats all. Yes I know at the end of this little scenrio there would be two single gals…but at least they would have their dignity. Do you not agree?
Sam 23
“To Sam who said that 20 percent of the single men account for 80 percent of the dates, I would ask, where are the other 80 percent?”
I do have some evidence for my theory, other than my anecdotal musings. According to this article, American men _claim_ that they have a median of 7 sex partners in a lifetime. ( “The Myth, the Math, the Sex “)
Seven sex partners really isn’t that many, and the true median number may be slightly lower. Yet everyone knows or knows of men who sleep with 20, 30, 40 women a year. Jack Nicholson believably claims to have slept with 2,000 women.
The number of sex partners that women have must mathematically be equal to the number of sex partners that men have, but if some men are having dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of partners, that means that many men are never or seldom ever having sex. Jack Nicholson alone accounts for the sexual careers of 285 men.
Jack Nicholson isn’t typical, but there are lots of studs who have dozens of partners. These guys aren’t average, but they account for the majority of dating, and thus give women an inaccurate impression of how the median man behaves.
As for where the other 80% are, I can only speak for myself, but I was online, on two niche dating sites.
Sam 24
I messed up the format, the url for the article I mentioned is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/weekinreview/12kolata.html
JB 25
To Callebaut who said “there are literally thousands of age 40+ (35+?) women in this situation”
There is an equal amount of men & women in this “situation” believe me. Where’s the data that says there’s more single women than men of any given age group ? I think I remember reading once that there’s 2.5 single women for every man. Is that for the U.S. or any given state, or planet Earth ??? Who knows ??? All I know is that everywhere I am like online dating sites,singles events, bars, restaurants etc. there’s more men than women. Except the mall ….lol there’s more women there !
To Jen: I think the point Sam was trying to make was theoretically the other 80% wouldn’t be “dateable” to most women, or they’ve given up and stopped persuing women, or they would make you go “Ewww”, or maybe they just don’t desire to be married or especially remarried.
I’m wondering if the top 20% women do all the dating as well ??
I know the stats point out on most online dating websites the top percentage of attractive women obviously get the 200 or 300 responses while mid level or lower level get much fewer. So who do you think has more options ??
Jen from NYC 26
I wanted to comment back. First, b’shert means your soul mate in Yiddish. In fact, I wanted to share with you that I used to attend this Torah class on the Upper East Side in NYC (I am a reform-conservatie Jew who is very spiritual) and it was led each Tuesday night by a well-known orthodoz Rebbitzen (that is a Rabbi’s wife). When I was not tuning out the sermon about being Kosher or keeping the Sabbath, I did pay very close attention this Rabbi’s wife because she spoke with so much knowledge about love and relationships. Let me add she has to be in her 70′s, and one would think from another generation being religious, all together. But there I was, this late 20′s single, Jewish girl listening to words that touched my heart and have forever stayed in my head. This is what she said, repeatidly: “We have parents and friends who are always there for us and help us make some of the most important decisions in our lives. Like where to go to college, what house to buy, teaching us about manners, and how to become a respectable person. But when it comes to the one single most important decision we will ever make, chosing a signifigant other, most of us are on our own.”
Those words never left me through all my years of dating as I realized I really was alone and that my parents, sister, and closest friends were not sitting by my side to guide me or even pull me in the other direction when it came to love. There is so much truth in those words that I believe this is another reason we feel so alone when we are singe. It is really all up to us.
Anyway, I also wanted to comment back about the idea that woman have to eventually “settle.” You know, I always thoguht I would find the perfect guy who met ALL the criteria on my list of “THE PERFECT GUY.’ Yeah, it never happend and as I got older and dated more, I realized that it was not about settling when it comes to dating, but about “Does this guy meet most of the important criteria on my list of the man I want to make a life with?” Yes, and of couse physical and sexual attraction. There are no exceptions to that one. So, for those ladies who think that you eventually have to settle, well, yeah you do. You have to settle your mind and your heart and recognize no man on this planet will be perfect for you. There will always be one or two things that bother you or you wish you could change. Take a long hard look at yourself, because you will recognize there are some things you would like to change about you as well which makes it more accpetable to accept a man with flaws.
My current boyfriend, whom I am pretty damn sure will be my future husband and the father of my children is so not the guy I thought I would settle down with, but he is the guy I wanted and needed to settle down with. He is handsome and humble, but I will be honest, a little dorkier than the guys I have dated in the past. He was never mister cool, but he is the coolest man I have ever known and loved. We have a wonderfuly honest relationship and we compliment each other on so many levels, but there are a few things that I know he is better with, as the same with me. It works. I didnt settle, I settled down and stopped wishing for the perfect man to rescue me and live happily ever after. I wish I could instill in every lonely and frustrated single woman that he is out there. I spent more nights than I would like to recall crying, and angry and bitter. And rightfully so. But eventually I accepted that most men were not for me, and that it was the few that could be potential that I had to keep my eyes and heart open for. You feel it. You just know when it is happening, and that is not on the first, second, or third date. It is when you get to date #22 and you dont even remember how you got there. It is all just so natural and you laugh and cry about how long it took you to meet that person, but how phenominally grateful and blessed you feel when it happens. Sometimes when love comes easy, it also goes just as easy. Nothing great is easy.
Jen from NYC 27
I wanted to comment back to singleinnewyorkcity. You wrote:
“Im just saying that even the nicest guy can act like an ass if he feels that he doesnt have to work hard to get a girl. If women had high standards and made guys work they wouldnt act the way they dothats all.”
Let me just laugh. Not at you because there is some truth to that, but my boyfirend tells me all of the time that when a guy likes a girl, really likes a girl, he does do all the work. When you meet the guy who is totally into you and see’s a future with you, he will call you, pursue you, and do all the things we know guys are supposed to do. Us girls are not that dumb and we know that when the guy is treating us like sloppy seconds, we are just sloppy seconds. It is the hardest thing to come to terms with and admit, but hey even I wanted a guy to like me so much I told him I was never interested in getting married when I damn well knew I wanted to be married and make a life with a man. I said it because I wanted him to like me more. I said it because I wanted him to date me and love me. Funny enough, I stopped seeign him (okay sleeping with him) and he went back to his ex-girlfriend 2x in the time we were seeing each other, got married to her, and 9 months later, anulled. Justice served, but here I was chasing this guy and letting him have his cake and eat it too, and in the end he did get married. But not to me. (Thank Gd.)
So my point is, girls do have high standards but then they lower them because all they want is a guy to love them. In the end, it is the girl, not the guy who is the ass. Don’t you think? How can you blame these guys for getting a piece of ass when these girls are so niave to lower their standards when they know in their hearts that the guy is not really interested in something substantial? Women do not have to make a man work at getting them, when it is right, like I said above, the guy will climb mountains for you with out you having to ask.
JimmyE 28
To single.
Here is the problem with your analogy. There are not three girls for every Evan Marc Katz in the real world. The ratio of guys to girls is 1:1. Even when you take into account people who are gay or choose to remain celibate, it doesn’t take a genius to realise that no sex can have the upper hand over the other.
Of course if all women made a pact to stop doing certain things to please men, then we’d have no choice but to accept it. But equally, all men could make a pact to stop paying for dinner etc.
downtowngal 29
JB, you’re right to call on that erroneous stat of “2.5 women for every man” – or something like that – often quoted for NYC, and by hosts of other dating blogs. I remember checking the 2000 US census figures – which breaks single (divorced, nomarried) people out by age group – it’s fairly even between genders up until age 55 or so. The more recent census doesn’t break it down by age, yet the media quotes that there are more single women than men in NYC – but this figure includes single gals in their 30′s along with widows in their 70′s.
I hate how the media uses scare tactics to sell magazine covers . Lots of intelligent comments on this blog – keep it up!
Callebaut 30
There may be an equal number of men and women in the US under the age of 55 but are there an equal number of single, educated, successful professionals who are looking to date someone who is there own age between the ages of say 40 and 55? My guess is no.
A beatiful woman 31
A little off topic, but I hate when people write “I’ve been told I am attractive”. It makes the person seem unattractive, especially since they can’t say that they are themselves. Probably her problem, she doesn’t find herself attractive, therefore others don’t.
Ladies, If you know you look good, say it, and mean it!
downtowngal 32
Women generally are not as self-promoting as men, particularly in public, so it’s understandable why she didn’t write, ‘I know I’m hot’. I don’t think it indicates that she has any type of ‘problem’.
Oldergal 33
As someone who looked for over 10 years and FINALLY found the man of her dreams after age 50, I have to tell you, Evan is right – it is like a job hunt and requires a lot of work. The trouble is, it also requires a fair amount of intestinal fortitude and sometimes a thick skin to get through the process. You probably needs good friends, a good therapist and faith in some sort of divine power in order to believe that you will find a man – but he is findable and I am living proof. I am a doctor and an intellectual and brighter and more accomplished than most men. I had to have a man who was very bright and accomplished in his own right. I don’t have a perfect body and probably wouldn’t be interested in a man who was interested only in that anyway. I found an amazing research scientist who is loving, kind and a wonderful step-dad to my kids. We will marry this year and have integrated our families beautifully. It hasn’t been all wonderful – my fiance has had a heart attack and cancer in the last three years while we’ve been together, but being with him and facing life together is the most wonderful blessing ever.
If you really want a man, it will be like finding that one-in-a-million job. You have to search – you have to interview a lot (kiss frogs who don’t turn into princes) and be willing to compromise on the unimportant things (my sweetie is 1/2″ shorter than me and chubby – some women wouldn’t give him a second look – lucky for me!!) He’s also spent a lot of time in science labs so he’s not buff and doesn’t walk as fast as he used to due to some arthritis in his knees, but can carry on conversations about a myriad of fascinating subjects, loves me and my kids wonderfully and is the more honest, decent person I’ve ever known. I could go on and on…
Anyway, the moral of the story is, keep looking. If a guy is stupid or superficial – move on fast. If he’s “between jobs” or underemployed – keep moving too, not because you need to be supported but you need to find someone who is mature and independent. If he’s narcissistic and talks only about himself, he’s not the only guy around. If he doesn’t call, just keep moving – who knows why, but it’s not about you. However, if he’s geeky and works hard and a little overweight – look again. If he isn’t the greatest dresser or drives an older car, reconsider – he may be banking that money or paying his child support rather than spending money on depreciating assets, which is a good thing. It’s hard work to find the love of your life – but well worth the effort! By the way, why is she reading this, you might ask? I receive Evan’s newsletter since he helped me write my profile 4 years ago. I had a slow minute at the office and was checking my e-mail. Just wanted to be an inspiration to others!
bren 34
This is more of a generalized comment rather than to any specific post. While I understand it is in our nature to want to be loved and have that deep intimate connection with someone else that extends beyond friendship, I have to stop and ask myself why does having a man in our lives somehow make us complete? Am I not a whole, wonderful person on my own? What is it about this desire for relationships that many great, wonderful, successful kind and intelligent women think that for some reason they are less, regardless of age, just because they have never been married or found “the one”. I am by no means promoting anti-man, anti-relationship or anti-anything, but rather trying to point out that regardless of how busy your schedule is, how many friends you have, and your successful career and good looks, women are still seemingly unhappy DUE to not finding some great person to share their lives. My thought (and it is very difficult!) is that rather than viewing a man and that picture perfect marriage/relationship as what completes us (or betters us, or makes our lives better, etc) we should shift our paradigms to view men and relationships as a COMPLIMENT to our already whole selves and lives that we love. Viewing ourselves as whole and happy, and not needing a relationship to validate our being. And in this world where everyone rushes to marriage, and being 30+ to some is considered some sort of unrealistic death nail in the dating coffin, I say no! I’m not going to let the fact that just because I’m not married at a certain age, or have some fantastic relationship that it is some reflection of ME and MY being inadequate. Never. But, we are loving people and it is in our nature to seek a mate. So I say try to stop letting everyones crazy age related expectations on relationships have an affect on you and your life. Dont let all those shallow men drag you down! Because the men that are like that are going to wake up some day either unhappily married due to their shallow expectations, or single feeling regretful. Just know that even if that perfect man never comes, that you have not failed, you are great, and live your life to your best ability to be as happy as is even fathomable. Keep dating! Don’t feel desperate. Don’t feel bitter just because others less than you have seemingly found someone great. Use every and all of Evan’s suggestions. Do maximize your options, even if you feel it wont work. Don’t have crazy high unrealistic and petty standards, but don’t also have them so low that you lose self respect and end up miserable anyway. So purse dating and the one, but don’t view it as something you need, rather something to compliment your already great and fantastic self. And in the end, regardless of whether or not you found “the one” you at least found your self and made the best of what cards you were dealt!
offthemarket4now 35
For the 40+ set, I have read that advertising in the personals in the New York Review of Books works pretty well, plus you would be dealing with a more sophisticated pool of dating candidates (and you would not be competing on a dating site with scads of photos of women better looking or younger than yourself).
I am 38, & have been online “dating” (okay, massively sending “icebreakers” and averaging about 1 face-to-face date a year) since age 30. I just spent this afternoon deleting all my online dating profiles. I’m not getting a decent ROI on what it costs to place these things, and for as long as my profiles have been up, I think I am falling victim to the law of diminishing returns. You can only work the personals for so long before interest and quality of contacts drops off.
Additionally, I notice a lot of people who meet their match online report meeting him or her only very shortly after posting a profile. Then there are others who date on and on and on for years, and don’t end up with anyone. So, I think the window of successful dating opportunity is a very short one, and keeping your profile open for longer than one month is probably not a good investment for most of us (in terms of time or money). Also, it would follow that if you rejected someone you met online the first few weeks your profile was up, then it would seem to me that you just threw away Mr. Right or Miss Right. Keep your eyes and your mind open in the first couple of weeks after posting a profile; that is when your special someone should appear. After that, it’s just a waste of time even looking…
Lynn 36
Ladies, I feel your pain. But it IS possible to take action, just like Evan suggests, and this will help you feel more self-esteem, and more like YOU are the one making the choices in your life. I know because I am 40 and have had long “dry” stretches of no dating or dating men who seemed totally inappropriate. But I kept plugging away: online dating, table4-6, poetry readings, volunteering etc., and there were many minor “successes” even if I was not immediately meeting the man of my dreams. These minor successes were wide and varied: an excellent dinner in a new restaurant; a guy who became smitten with me, even though I did not return his ardor; a handsome date for the office holiday party last year; a brief affair with great sex. I truly believe that it can be fun looking for a man to fall in love with, and that it is more likely to happen if you create lots of possiblities to *choose* from. No, it is NOT easy, and it takes a loy of work, but you will certainly feel like you have more control over the situation if you create as many *choices* as you possibly can for yourself. BTW, I have been dating a great guy for about 5 months; we met on nerve.com.
tiny alice 37
To offthemarket, who said, ““Additionally, I notice a lot of people who meet their match online report meeting him or her only very shortly after posting a profile. Then there are others who date on and on and on for years, and dont end up with anyone. So, I think the window of successful dating opportunity is a very short one, and keeping your profile open for longer than one month is probably not a good investment for most of us (in terms of time or money).“…
I think it depends. I met my husband after 3 days of posting my profile, but this was the tail end of 4 years of on/off internet dating. I’d post, date a few guys, pick one to work with on a LTR, and when that didn’t work, I’d put myself back out there. My husband, OTOH, had a history a lot like yours – 6 yrs of having a profile online, infrequent face-to-face dates and was just about to take his profile down before he met me.
So my point is that there’s no such thing as a window of opportunity. Life is random and meeting the right guy has a lot to do with luck anyway. Might as well keep that online avenue open for youself, especially since as more and more quality matches are being made online, more and more great men are looking at the internet as THE way to meet their lifelong mate.
If they’re all getting online and you’re giving up on searching online, you won’t get to meet them.
downtowngal 38
The last few posts here have been very uplifting! A nice change from all of the negative vibes put out there about single women, blah blah just to sell a few books and make us gals feel as if we’re doing something wrong. I read another blog hosted by this woman who said that there’s a reason why single women over 35 are still single – this was in response to a letter from a late 30′s woman asking for advice. Ugh!
Bottom line – keep up the faith in yourself and the right person will come into your life. I truly belive that.
tundrafox 39
Let me give you some real sound advice. I was married to a beautiful women on the outside, however I did not know her on the inside. I was with her for over 20 years and have known her for over 35 years. I was married to her for 18 years. Every man wants a beautiful woman on his arm, to show off, to be a prize and to make love to at night. I am a prize myself as other women have said. I never called my ex even as much as stupid, dumb or idiot. I never raised my hand to her or even pushed her. I taught my boys to never, ever hit a women under any circumstances, just walk away. I do not drink, go to bars, do drugs or use inapropriate language. I am clean and try to live a clean life, I believe in God, go to church on Sundays, and prayer on Wednesday nights. I believe in what goes around comes around. What am I trying to say, I will tell you. I had two beautiful boys with her, now one 15 and the other 8. After 18 years of marriage she was seeing another man so I divorced her. During the divorce the court ordered DNA tests and it turns out my older son was not my biological son, not his fault at all. After a little digging it turns out she had been seeing other men through out our marriage. Her sister inlaw said she was a slut and I was the last to know. Since the divorce, she has even refused to allow me visitation with my 8 year old son. I thought I knew her, how could I have ever made such a mistake. Eventhough, I feel it was a mistake, I found that I will never give up on my 8 year old son. She has poisened my older son who wants nothing to do with me. As for you Lauren, I don’t know you so I am not insinuating anything her. However to all women, to find out what a real man has in his heart, DON”T PUT OUT. Down deep, a real man does not place sex before love. Men will manipulate a women until she puts out and when she does for the most part he will tire of her and find a new conquest. A women is not wired to have sex before she marries. Within 6 months after she marries a man she has slept with prior to marriage, she will become depressed and feel like she has no worth and this is not right. Secondly, loyalty is above all in a relationship, if you suspect your mate is stepping out, chances are they are. Lauren, keep looking, there are a few of us out there that know and understand a women’s emotional needs, we are not abusive and manipulative. I just don’t want to share my wife with other men and want to be appriciated for being devoted and loving to her. Please don’t put yourself down by not finding someone yet, most men are jerks and they only want to get into your pants, don’t let them, number one rule. Number two, do not allow yourself to be manipulated. If what I read in your letter is true, it is not you, it is them. downtowngial said it right;
“Bottom line – keep up the faith in yourself and the right person will come into your life. I truly belive that.”
njtexsin 40
Hello to everyone.
I happened to come across this site through a yahoo link. I just felt a need to chime in.
My Bio: I’m male/46/single never married/no children/happy/ and by no means an English Major (no need to point out my sentence structure).
These are just my opinions and do not reflect the views of this Web Site, Professional Therapist, or any Living Person.
This is quite lengthy and I apologize (feel free to page down and ignore me).
My Views: [1] Remember 50% of all marriages fail. How many of the other 50% are extremely happy, just going through the motions, just for the kids, or the fear of being LONELY. Marriage is not a solution it is an enhancement to a good life. [2] Get out and meet people you may find the person of your dreams, losers, or a whole lot of good people with different skills, hobbies, political views…. The worst that could happen is you will still be single but have new friends that could help you in other needs for a Successful Life. [3] Analyze yourself first. Example: You meet the person of your dreams who is everything you wanted. Now are you bringing everything to the table that this person is looking for. He wants to go out are you ready on time? Everyone has different reactions and expectations for every situation. Both parties need to respect the others views and determine a compromise because nobody will agree all the time and nobody should get it their way all the time. [4] You don’t have to be a 10 or athlete…. to attract people. But you can’t eat junk and be inactive, then complain nobody is interested in you because of your size.
Evan: Thank You for this site (maybe I will use your services one day) and thanks for the Ben Franklin quote (so true).
Bren: I agree with your view Single is Not a Failure.
Erika: Kudos your attitude and comments hit the mark. I wish you well on your quest.
You probably would be a 9 or 10 if you would have that mole removed ( just kidding ).
Most people are too critical on looks and faults (theirs and others).
I remember a Willie Nelson song one of the lines was I went home @ 2 with a 10 and woke up @ 10 with a 2.
Sam: Thanks for the analogy some took it as fact.
Jen from NYC: Congratulations on your latest catch.
Just a few questions that others might fall into [1] Had you ever considered dating outside your religion? [2] Being single made you feel alone. If you can’t be happy with yourself it’s hard to expect others to be happy with you. [3] I loved your definition of Settle but it goes both ways for men and women. [4] You say women should have higher standards and not lower them. What is your definition of standards [a] Morals [b] Expectations [c] Needs? [5] Men should have to work hard to get you. With that attitude you might come off as cold and unapproachable. If you are talking about jumping into the sack too quickly is another subject. I will cover that on the next person.
Li-Anne : [1] When out with friends take the initiative and approach someone you are interested in. Like a pack of dogs, bikers, gang members, bible thumpers…. one on one if met by themselves each could be interesting. But as a group could be intimidating and create fear (of consequences, unknown, judgment….). By stepping away from the pack you might find someone but you will still have a safety net of friends to look out for you also. [2] You said the Vast Majority of men lose interest and respect for a woman that initiates the date or they think you are desperate and easy. [a] That is allot of BS. It would show me your interested in me or what I was doing when you saw me. [b] Men would expect you to have sex. Some yes but not the majority. I would not refuse sex on the first date nor would I expect it or push for it. If it happens it happens. I would not think any less of you anymore than myself. ( I would think you were easy if you were flashing people when I met you. But then it would not be a date it would be a booty call.
Single in New York City: Who said your too picky so you lowered your standards? If they were family and friends ask them to be more specific. [1] Family you can’t change. [2] Friends like you for who you are Good or Bad. [3] Nobody knows you better just be prepared for an honest reply.
Susan: You ask why you should approach the man. My Answer: Maybe the vibes you put out are saying you are not approachable. Maybe the single men you know feel they don’t fit your standards and you would not be interested in them. Would the girl that goes to lectures, readings…. be interested in camping, fishing, boating…. [1] Would this woman be comfortable about sharing some of these experiences. [2] Would she be content to continue doing some of her interests alone and visa-versa?
You seem that you are Bitter that you are alone and still single. You have a full plate enjoy it and let life unfold with or without a mate (you have lived this long without a soul mate what makes you think you HAVE to have one to be happy.
Oldergal: Congrats on your achievements and new partner. you were able to find someone only after you separated your needs from the wants. Maybe you could have found Mr. Right sooner if you didn’t have such demanding requirements. [1] Your letter sends negative vibes. You say you don’t have the perfect body and would not respect someone looking for that. But you were searching for a certain physical requirements for the man of your dreams ( now you have settled for short and chubby ). [2] You were looking for someone with the same intellect, rightness, and accomplished in his own right. You may have missed out on earlier opportunities if you didn’t have too many restrictions. Example: Take a look at these 2 groups [a] Research Scientist, Lawyer, CEO, Doctor…. [b] Carpenters, Plumbers, Mailman, Nightshift Security…. Both Groups need each other. Quote from Caddy Shack ( judge to one of the caddies ) The World need ditch diggers too. [3] Since kids are involved what do they Require (r) and Cherish (c).
[r] Love, Attention, Food, Shelter and an Education. [c] Maybe their first bike or favorite game or toy or doll…. They also cherish school functions, scouting, crafts, sports, games, family time…. Both group a and b can provide these needs. If both parents are wrapped up in their own accomplishments their children will probably miss out on [c]. [4] You mention a Therapist. Maybe until you could be true to yourself and heal past wounds you could not achieve someone elses desires and intentions.
My intent was not to make any individual angry or upset these opinions are about the subject and not the person.
If they thought it or done it they are not alone others can relate.
If I went over the line feel free to reply.
wyandanch 41
Hi Evan,
Please solve this mystery for me. Whenever I am at a party or at a bar, the men seem really attracted to the asian women? Why is that? They don’t sem that much more attractive than the rest of us. Yet the guys almost drool over them. What is their secret?
Illinoisgirl 42
Ok, here is my take on things.
I am a woman in her 40′s who is the same weight and size as I was when I graduated from high school. Actually I am in better shape now. I have no kids and have been divorced once. My friends tell me I look really good, and most people guess my age about five to ten years younger than I am. But for the last six years or so, since I turned 40, I have noticed that the single men my age have all started to date women young enough to be my daughter, if they looked half way decent themselves. Men my age in So Cal are by and large chasing 25-30 year olds, and it doesn’t matter what they look like or what their religion is. I am a Christian and trust me the Christian men are just as guilty in this regard as non-Christian men. Let’s be honest. There is a major mid life crisis that goes on with men of a certain age, and they by and large do this. .
JB 43
First off to “Wyandanch”. SOME white men are very attracted to Asian women. I, on the other hand find MOST if not all Asian women to be err…not “my type” to put it nicely. I have a buddy, (both of us in our 40′s) who because his first wife was Asian and his children are obviously 1/2 Asian dates only Asian women. That’s what he’s attracted to. I, and plenty of other men AM NOT. As David D says “Attraction Is Not A Choice” Noone can force someone to be attracted to someone else.
As for “Illinoisgirl” I live in Illinois and I’m 47 and I don’t know ANY man my age who CAN or DOES date anyone young enough to be your daughters’s age. And I know lots of men ….lol Actually I take that back. I know 1 guy who’s 40 and looks 27 who pulls it off. You wouldn’t want to date him anyway. He’s a “player’s player”
I date women within 5 to 10 yrs of my age 99% of the time. Only once did I go that young. It was just for fun for a few dates. We had nothing in common and she was very inexperienced. Believe me ALL twenty somethings AREN’T more attractive than ALL 40 somethings. Not to mention the turn on of experience & mature conversation ! …LOL
hunter 44
to illinoisgirl,
…most younger women haven’t been jaded….
yuki chin 45
JB -
I don’t quite understand why you would have to “err… put it “nicely” that Asian women aren’t your type. Of course people are led by their tastes to whatever attracts them. But what is the not-so-nice alternative view that you implied there? Do you have negative feelings about Asian women that you were coyly alluding to? And if you truly wanted to be nice, why did you have to mention that you were being nice at all?
Congratulations. If you wanted to direct a thinly veiled insult at Asian women, your mission was accomplished.
Yuuk
Oldergal 46
I know it is discouraging to look for love, but it can be found! I found the love of my life after age 50. However, as Evan says, it can take a lot of work. Waiting for it just to happen probably won’t work. As Thomas Jefferson said, “the harder I work the luckier I get”…so if you work hard, love may find you…or maybe you’ll be really lucky and it’ll just find you without hard work – but that wasn’t my experience. I worked for over 10 years to find the love of my life. It was worth it. But I did make a lot of effort – many, many dates – a few disasterous relationships – had my heart broken a few times and broke a few, too. But I met some really interesting people, learned a lot about myself and life and all in all, I’m grateful for the experience. (though hopefully, won’t ever repeat it!) I used online dating, a dating coach (Evan and another), had therapy to understand myself and make it through and cultivated my friendships and family relationships. I am also a single mom and ran a business – I’ve been busy. Life hasn’t ever been boring. Lonely at times in the past, but I’ll not die thinking I never lived!
So, hang in there. Keep on the websites – take your name on and off as “new” people get more responses. Write a good profile – have a nice picture taken. Enjoy the process and have a good support system. It is all worth it. Get saavy about dating – if someone isn’t interested and doesn’t call, move on. If he’s underemployed or not too intelligent – and you are – move on. It isn’t you – there are a lot of people in the world and only a few you’d spend your life with. I also ran background checks on someone I dated more than a couple times to be sure they were who they said they were. (I’ve had very intelligent friends who had very bad experiences in that way. )I never got burned in that sense but I was careful, too. I worked hard not to get bitter or too down about the process, although at times, I felt that way. I exercised and meditated to keep my attitude right.
I “interviewed” carefully – paid attention to their friends and family members. I hire people in my business so I used some of the same techniques. Does that sound unromantic – maybe, but this is THE most important position in my life. Why wouldn’t I be careful and saavy in the process?
Why am I still on this website at all? I stay in touch with Evan since he helped me a lot, and want to support others from time to time.
verbosity 47
Illinoisgirl, the subject of 40-ish men going after younger women is more fully discussed in “Where are All the Emotionally Available, Mentally Healthy Men?” also on this site. I’d refer you to that thread for a full discussion.
However, I’ll summarize my perspective for you, one which I think many men also share. Here it is (much of it copied from my previous posts):
One must realize that in the age brackets we discuss here (40+) most of the men (and women) have been through at least one divorce, long-term relationship, or other similar trauma. Of the divorces (btw, the divorce rate in Scottsdale, where I am, is approximately 70%), 70% of them are initiated by the women (can be independently verified – http://health.discovery.com/centers/loverelationships/articles/divorce.html; there’s also a book at Amazon that indicates women initiate 91% based upon research). I am going to assume for sake of argument that the numbers are similar for non-marriage relationships also. What Im getting at is that, in all likelihood (70%), a man had his marriage or most significant relationship ended by a woman. Im not getting into questions of blame – thats another discussion. Simply, she initiated the breakup the vast majority of the time.
So, men in the 40+ age range are more likely to be cautious in committing their hearts, minds, and assets to a relationship. Many older men, likely having gone through a divorce (and by proxy, a split of a long term relationship) they likly did not initiate, are understandably reluctant to get into another relationship. To ignore this reality is foolish.
Here is mans perspective. Men like younger women. They are usually more fun, usually physically more attractive, less likely to have shrew-like harpie tendencies (you can argue this point, but assume it happens more often than not). After the aforementioned divorce or ended long term relationship, most men I have talked to just want something simple and to have fun. They often see their 20s and 30s as a waste of their youth and fun time due to their previously mentioned divorce, LTR. Now in their 40s they prefer younger, simpler women. Simpler doesn’t mean being with a robot.
Another point – ladies would be well-served to quit worrying about a mans income, and assets so much. This is its own separate subject, but every time I or my friends meet a woman, the inquiry is always about my occupation, neighborhood, car, where I vacation, indirectly inquiring about my income. This is treated on other parts of this site, but it should be mentioned here. I bring this up to make the point that men have no qualms going for younger women, since all women, younger and older, look at him and his wallet. This is a generalization, but an accurate one.
Also, this is very non-PC, but so what? Men can afford to go after younger women also. Not monetarily speaking, but in this way – Men, as we age, generally get more distinguished and attractive (presuming we dont go completely to pot) to a wider range of women older & younger. Our options increase. Women simply do not (The ‘cougar’ concept is based upon one night stands, BTW, not longer term relationships). Women’s options therefore reduce as mens options increase. This is not an easy concept to swallow, but it is accurate.
This sounds cynical, but I think this situation (where men’s options increase while women’s decrease) is a main reason why women have harder timelines about dating and marriage, not necessarily the biological clock. They only have so long to attract the maximum number of men…Just a thought.
JB 48
Sorry Yuki, I didn’t mean it to be derogatory or an insult to you or Asian women. The terms “put it nicely” and “not my type”. Saying someone is “not my type” is an obviously nicer way of saying “I”, meaning me personally don’t find that person or in this case Asian women attractive to ME. Do you consider those “negative feelings” ?
If I would of said “I”, on the other hand find most if not all Asian women to be unattractive TO ME” that’s not derogatory or insulting no more than you saying large overweight bald Caucasian men aren’t “err..to put it nicely ” “YOUR type” meaning not attractive to you.
I guess saying you don’t find someone or a group of people whether it’s “race” or “weight” or “height” attractive can obviously be considered negative not positive but it was’nt meant to be insulting,derogatory or racist. There is a difference.
Case in point… I prefer blonde,blue eyed women that aren’t obese that’s what I’M attracted to. So obviously most Asian, African American and a hell of a lot of Caucasian Brunette women aren’t my type. I don’t consider that an insult to any of them. I might of just singled out Asian women in my post because that’s what wyandanch asked about. Again sorry if you misunderstood me.
On a different note I have an Asian friend Nancy who won’t date Asian men because they’re not HER type !…LOL
wanderer 49
I was just curious on a link I found on another site and just wanted to see what people would write about someone being over 40 and dating this day and time. I am not ready to date as I am in the process of divorcing my present husband ( girlfriends and children with the girlfriend tend to piss wives like me off ) but when we have all this nastiness past and the divorce is done and over with I will more than likely date again. It will be strange for me I am sure because being with someone for 28 years and going back into dating again this day and time is going to be a culture shock for me. I am an attractive 46 year old woman and have been told I look 35. I have three children and the youngest child is still at home she is 15. For the time being I am putting my youngest child first as she needs stability in her life as her dad has not tried to see her for over a year, its his choice not to as I have not tried to prevent him from seeing her. Time heals all wounds and I am giving myself and my children time to heal from this. When my 15 year old is comfortable with it if the right guy comes along I may date some but my kids come first and any guy that comes into my life will have to accept my children and my sisters/mom as family is very important in my life.
Michael Ejercito 50
While an affair would be out of the question for me, no strings attached sex is a perfectly acceptable way to fill in the gaps.
Michael Ejercito 51
What proportion of younger women would be willing to date an older, divorced man?
Michael Ejercito 52
I have met women who said that men were not their type.
verbosity 53
Michael Ejercito wrote, “What proportion of younger women would be willing to date an older, divorced man?”
Answer – Lots, particularly when he’s paying.
Selena 54
But maybe not Verbosity if they have their choice among younger, handsomer, never-been-married men who are also paying!
verbosity 55
My point exactly, Selena….For women, it’s usually about what they gain economically. Such women should be avoided and shunned by rational men.
question for verbosity 56
How can you tell the difference between those women who are sincere and the ones who should be avoided because they’re too preoccupied with what they stand to gain economically?
verbosity 57
question,
You can tell the differences by watching WHAT they do. When a bill comes to they insist on paying? Do they do the half-assed purse reach? Do they just sit there like Cleopatra while you take care of it? Does she want to go to every high-end restaurant and club in town? With you paying? Does she talk about the trips her ex took her on to Europe/anyplace else? What does she do for work? What is her plan of advancement? If non, be careful. Is she a secretary that knows all high end clubs, restaurants and vacation spots? If she earns good $ (same or more than you) and never offers or insists on paying, you have a good indicator.
By the way, these questions apply equally for both sexes. I do not understand why, if women can do the same jobs as, and earn the same (if not more than – see Warren Farrell), that either sex should pay the other for their companionship, which is really what we are talking about. I think it’s because those who insist on the inequality (men pay system, all else being equal), don’t like the logical conclusion, that conclusion being tacit prostitution, at least in part. I mean payment for companionship, not necessarily sex. I think this answers women’s oft-repeated complaint that men don’t care about them as people. My answer is that if you insist on being paid for your company, you devalue yourself as a person and cannot reasonably expect someone to therefore care more about you as a person.
M 58
To Susan re 1: Now THAT is a thoughtful, impressive post. I am a man but I feel like I could have written much of it. I feel much the same way. Kudos to you Susan for writing that and I hope things get better.
The only quibble I find is that I don’t know why it would be a million times harder, or any harder, for a woman to ask a man out. But a reader is hardly ever going to agree with every single thing in a long post.
E 59
A lot of single women need to quit being so specific with their “requirements” when they are looking for a guy. The more specific “requirements” women make makes it that much harder on women or nearly impossible because men will run away from you. Men aren’t “robots”, were not just some piece of metal or just something that comes out of a vending machine. Women must open their minds up and have a broad, very “general” “requirements” such as limiting yourselves to such selective opportunities like under no circumstances he must be 6′ ++ tall, he must be this and this and do this, have this “perfect” conversation, do this and meet this and that. No wonder your always single, every guy no matter his height will run from you because you have this super strict “requirements and think the square peg is somehow going to fit in a round circle even when your parents and now married friends tell you it so doesn’t work to have such strict “requirements”. When women open their minds and have the very “general” requirements like (he might be this height or he might be an inch, two or three shorter, but she’s not going to limit herself that he “must” be this and that”).
Jackie 60
I am 28 yrs. old and still have not had success in having a serious and long term relationship beyond 1 and 1/2 years with a guy. I also currently cannot find anyone who is serious about calling me or going on dates, they all turn out to be players and jerks.
In response to your article questions: (Are you telling your friends to set you up with single eligible guys?
Are you going to singles events – parties, trips, cruises – or at least doing activities that have single men in attendance?
Are you taking online dating as seriously as you could be?
Have you gotten a new photo?
Have you a one-of-a-kind essay?
Have you signed up for a six-month subscription on a big dating site?
Have you been searching for and initiating contact with men?
Have you been giving men second chances on dates?
Have you considered hiring a matchmaker or a dating coach (hint, hint)?)
The answer is a resounding yes on my end to every question with exception to having friends set me up, that’s not something I have as an option nor would I condone if it was. However, I have repeatedly made efforts above and beyond to find love and nothing has ever come of it and I am sick of it. I want clear answers as to what the issue is and how to fix it. I want to know what the men are going to have to do on their end as well to earn the privilege of taking me out on a date and having a relationship with me.
katrina 61
its all about luck and who you cross paths with in life – it has nothing to do with looks, personality or brains. my married friends have none of those qualities and are all married to great men who look after them….even the fat btchy ones. they were just lucky enough to meet them before us.
Louise 62
I’m 28 and happily married and pregnant ….I never went out and didn’t have many friends and I feel sorry for you ladies cause I never tried ….every relationship I had just felt into my lap ….I’m average looking, have a low paying job which thank god won’t have to work anymore cause my husband is wealthy, you are all obviously the problem
marymary 63
katrina
I fear that someone who sees their friends as not having looks, personalities or brains, and seems them as fat and bitchy, wouldn’t know how to appreciate a steady, commitment ready, marriage-minded man when he comes her way. Many women, and possibly men, have fallen into the trap of believing their hotness makes them more viable prospects, and that they have the ability to “tame” men. But the men still do what they want regardless.
It’s partly luck but after my xth crap relationship it suddenly struck me that NO ONE IS THAT UNLUCKY. Keep blaming your bad luck or look to see what you can do better/different.
When I was ready I met someone suitable. It was partly luck but mainly I had changed.
Rene. 64
that was crush… and hard, but this made me realise where I was doing and where I’m heading to…
Rochelle 65
Jackie 60, I see you are putting yourself out there, that’s great since a lot of people complain about being single and do nothing. They continue to just go to work and stay at home, then complain how they haven’t met anyone. it might be something you aren’t displaying enough of in your interactions with men, and/or the men you are choosing. That isn’t to be critical to but to be helpful. I’m in the same boat and only a year older than you. Intensive self-reflection and research while dating this year has made me realize what part I’ve played in staying single all this time. And there are 6 major reasons
1. I wasn’t embracing my feminine energy as much as I am capable of since I was under some false impression that most men want women who “act more like men” nowadays. So I put on a false facade of being more aggressive than I actually am and lack of vulnerability…This was easy to reverse since I’m rather naturally feminine energy person, not masculine.
2. I was doing things that made me seem desperate, and needy without realizing it.
3. I had trouble defining my boundaries and communicating them in a way that men would understand. — I still struggle with this sometimes due to a long time habit of being “too nice”
4. I wasn’t truly present on most dates. I was in my head too much wondering what the man was thinking instead of having my energy mainly in my body and heart.
5. I didn’t drop enough cues to let men know it was ok for him to continue pursuing. e.g., expressing appreciation, asking enough questions about him as a person
6. I was interested in men who were more like my clone than a complement…In this regard, different from most women since I wasn’t all about his status. But I started seeking someone who was more easy-going, very laid back than I was, yet also expecting him to be a “take charge” person. And I was looking for him to have a ton of common interests. I would be better off trying more guys who are more “take charge”, and focus more on common core values than having everything in common down the list.
I used to say it was all just because I was picky and the “good men” were taken, etc. But at the same time deep down, I felt that I was part of the equation. So this isn’t me saying all the men I’ve interacted with are perfect and did nothing wrong—they were far from it. But at the end of the day we can only control ourselves and see where we play part…the thing that most of us don’t want to do. At least now that I’ve been working on me, my experiences have improved significantly. And when things go wrong, I feel more confident that the man simply wasn’t the right one and it’s easier to leave when I see they are wrong for me.
its over 66
Ive tried everything and im in my 40s now, the ship has sailed, men in my age group seek under 35, i know i will die alone and i did not deserve this, karma is bullshit, bad things happen to good people and i regret all the good i have done and sacrifices i made to help others because it has not helped me. i have stopped trying to meet a man an instead hoping and doing things that will bring my death closer because the thought of another 40 years of this lonely life makes me sick and cry uncontrolably every day of my miderable worthless existance. I have watched all my friends marry and have children and i have been deprived of this……the only thing that keeps me happy is knowing that death is real and will happen unlike love
marymary 67
Its over
finding a man is the least of your problems. No man is able to make your life worth living or make you feel better about yourself. sacrificing yourself on the altar of being good is not going to get you anything worthwhile, and I,m a Christian.
You can be yourself, which means all the less “good” bits and still be with someone. in fact, I would say it is a requirement. You can have your own mind and can disagree, and have bad days, while still being fun to be with, kind, compassionate etc. a worthwhile man or woman isn,t looking to be with someone who has no needs or opinions. there would be a dimension missing.
i know many women older than us who married, i also know many who didn,t and are contented with their church, social life, hobbies, families. I was up for either option having battled with and overcome depression, then I met someone. He has added a new fulfilment to my life but I can’t say he has made me happier. I was happy before I met him and I’d been single for over five years.
you don’t know what life holds. The future is unknowable. enjoy the blessings of today, the good earth, the people you know, your talents, hobbies, home, food,animals, health. It.s 2013. I can attest that a lot can happen in a year.
starthrower68 68
Ladies, take heart; a couple of recent posts on this thread are very mean-spirited and those people have partners. So there really is someone for everyone.
Karl R 69
its over said: (#66)
“i did not deserve this,”
Dating is not a meritocracy.
Dating is similar to a job hunt. The best jobs aren’t always filled by the best employees. The best employees don’t always end up in the best jobs. Therefore, if you know what you’re doing, you can end up with a slightly better employee/job than what you actually should deserve.
its over said: (#66)
“i regret all the good i have done and sacrifices i made to help others because it has not helped me.”
I know a man who won’t do anything for you unless he know that he’ll benefit from it. Does he sound like good boyfriend/husband material?
its over said: (#66)
“i have stopped trying to meet a man”
I know a bunch of men … how should I describe them … when the going gets tough, they give up and quit. Are they the kind of men you’d want to depend upon in a lifelong marriage?
its over said: (#66)
“instead hoping and doing things that will bring my death closer”
“the only thing that keeps me happy is knowing that death is real and will happen”
Do men who take unnecessary risks, who have unhealthy lifestyles and who are suicidal turn you on?
its over said: (#66)
“the thought of another 40 years of this lonely life makes me sick and cry uncontrolably every day of my miderable worthless existance.”
Do you feel better about yourself when you spend time with people who suffer from severe, chronic depression?
its over said: (#66)
“i have been deprived of this”
“i did not deserve this, karma is bullshit, bad things happen to good people”
I know some people who never accept responsibility for their own circumstances. Instead, they constantly blame others (people, fate, god, the universe) for every bad thing that has happened to them.
Do you enjoy sitting down and having a conversation with people like that?
Dating is not a meritocracy. Dating is marketing. And the way you’re presenting yourself is killing your chances to find everyone. In one paragraph you’ve convinced me that I wouldn’t want to spend a one hour dinner-party in your company, much less the rest of my life.
If you change the way you express yourself, you still might end up single, but you’ll definitely be a lot less lonely.
its over said: (#66)
“Ive tried everything and im in my 40s now, the ship has sailed, men in my age group seek under 35, i know i will die alone”
You’re lying to yourself.
How is it relevant that men in your age group seek under 35? There are lots of men who aren’t in that age group. Some of those men date women in their 40s … and 50s … and 60s (etc).
And the only way you could remain ignorant of what those other men do, is if you’ve limited your dating to the narrow age range close to you.
So when you say you’ve “tried everything“, you’re lying to yourself. You haven’t tried broadening the group of men you’d consider for a husband.
If you’d rather spend the next 40 years alone, rather than try dating some men who are 10-15 years older (or younger) than you, that’s certainly a valid choice. I won’t fault you for making that decision.
But I won’t have much patience (or sympathy) when you blame everything but your own choices for the situation you’ve ended up in.
Jackies 70
Louise 62,
Your comments are obviously to be expected from someone who has never actually worked for anything in life. You only care to profit from others and don’t see a need to do for others as most of us do. Most women try hard and expect the same in return from a partner. If your choice is to not work, have babies and use someone else to live off of that is great. However, most people don’t behave that way and I personally find that behavior low class and disgraceful to women who are intelligent and enjoy working hard and getting further in life, not sitting around sipping tea and watching life go by.
kerrianna 71
Women single over 30 need therapy and advice on how to get a man to b with them, i am 33 and married for 7 years however even when i was single i always had men persuing me and was always dumping them-its not about luck its about you as a person and what you do to turn these men off you otherwise you would not be so desperate-men can sense this and it is a TURN OFF!!!!! And stop looking and he will come just like my husband found me-i was engaged at the time and hence not looking and he came to me-stop being so desperate and worrying about marriage and it will come to YOU, trust me i am proof of this-good luck
starthrower68 72
Kerrianna, while you make several cogent points, the notion that single women over 30 need therapy and advice is a blanket statement. Some certainly do. But not all. Some women merely have to understand that to attract a man, you can behave in a way that would attract a woman. I make my point as a woman over 30 who is struggling with emotional blocks that keep me from finding a successful relationship. Sometimes the woman is perfectly emotionally healthy, not dependent, etc. and it’s just a matter of timing.
Ruby 73
kerrianna #71
You’re 33, and married for 7 years? Well, dating over 40 is a very different proposition than dating in your twenties. Dating at that age for women is a piece of cake in comparison.
higado2 74
I just had to comment about “Jen from NYC” (post #17 and beyond). I like your attitude! You come off as being truly wise, and happy! You really leave no doubt that your story is true! Good for you Jen, may you have a good marriage with your “dorky” boyfriend! hehehe
AbsolutelyRight 75
i am a straight man that certainly has the same problem like so many men and women out there today. i am not shy at all, and it seems that so many women are very picky today. i was married at one time myself before my wife of fifteen years cheated on me, and i was a very caring and loving husband that was very committed to her as well. most of the women nowadays are playing very hard to get, and with so many women today that have a very bad attitude problem does certainly makes it much worse. it is very hard for many of us men to approach a woman that we would like to talk too, because they are so very nasty to us. why is that? and yet they will go out with men that treat them very mean. now that i am in my late fifties, it certainly makes it even much harder for me. i hate going out as it is, because with so many women nowadays act like a drama queen which many of them are so very drunk to begin with. women were much different years ago which made it much easier to meet a good one back then, especially with the help of many family and friends too. today so many women are looking for a man with a very large bank account, and can’t accept a man for who he is anymore. and now that so many women have very high paying jobs, they really think that they are God’s gift to men since they are making much more money than many of us men do.