Apr30

Is it Harder for Women To Date In New York City Than Anywhere Else?

08:00 am on Apr 30th 2008 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

25 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Online Dating Tips & Advice, Uncategorized

25 Responses to “Is it Harder for Women To Date In New York City Than Anywhere Else?”

1. Markus Apr 30th 2008 at 08:50 am 1

   Man, that is ALMOST enough to get me to move to New York. ALMOST! Hey Evan, any stats on Burlington, VT?

2. Honey Apr 30th 2008 at 10:55 am 2

   I think changing up your profile and widening your net are probably the best things to do. I was on Match for four years and changed my profile and pics regularly…I live in a smaller town right now, and so the pool didn’t change much. That meant if a guy never changed his profile, he was less likely to come up in my search. And even if I widened my search, a guy with a profile that I didn’t find appealing was going to remain unappealing if he never changed his essays.

3. Joe Apr 30th 2008 at 04:52 pm 3

   Evan, may I ask where you obtained those single men/women statistics? Are there numbers for other cities? In terms of the overall population, things are almost even, so it would be interesting to see how those numbers bear out by age demographic. This presents an interesting contrast to China, where age-old preferences for male heirs, decades of a one child policy, and possibly other factors have led to a significant surplus of men. In fact, the ratio as of 2006 was 1.13 men/women, compared to the world average, which is 1.01 (United States 0.97, with 1.00 if you only consider people aged 15-65). There is a ton of data here:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

4. Marc May 1st 2008 at 07:41 am 4

   Rachel,
   If you’ve mentioned it in your profile, you may want to consider removing the fact that you’re going for your PHD. Many guys may be intimidated by that. I would find it a huge turn on, but I think others may think you’re too smart for them, or see you as some kind of mousy bookworm….especially if your picture isn’t doing you justice. I don’t think the pool in NY is that much less shallow than it is in L.A.

   As far as NYC being filled with women who have impressive credentials, it’s also filled with women who are extremely unimpressive (I’ve dated most of them. You can read all about it, if you like: http://diaryofadisillusioneddater.blogspot.com ). The number of unimpressive women’s profiles on dating sites is astounding too. And I ONLY search in NY.

   I’d say follow Evan’s advice about working on the profile, but don’t be intimidated by the fantasy of the successful, ambitious “Sex and the City” NY women because it’s quite often just that…a fantasy.

   Best of luck.

5. Honey May 1st 2008 at 10:08 am 5

   I see Marc’s point though I go back and forth on whether or not I agree. When I was dating online my profile said that I was getting a PhD, but I made the most of it and my headline was “Hot Bookworm.” However, when I encounter people in daily life I tend to just say I’m in school and when they ask me what I study I say the name, not the degree, because lots of times people get intimidated and/or conversation becomes awkward. So that’s a possible compromise.

   OTOH, if you want to find someone similarly educated (as I did) then putting it out there is an effective screening tool. Good luck!

6. Steve May 1st 2008 at 10:46 am 6

   Okay, it is the year 2008. Some guys are smart and secure. The question I would ask myself when seeing Rachel’s profile is

   “Do PhD students have time for dating and boyfriends?”

7. Rachel May 1st 2008 at 11:44 am 7

   Steve, I think it’s a good question. And my response, as the person who wrote the letter, is yes. I certainly make time for other priorities in my life, personal relationships being one of them. But I can completely understand the concern. I do think, however, living in NYC works in my favor on this one. Everyone is super busy and into their careers, so my hours probably seem leisurely to many other online daters. The mantra on people’s profiles in NYC seems to be “I work hard and I play hard!” (And no, I didn’t write this on mine!)

8. Ron May 1st 2008 at 03:42 pm 8

   I may help shed some light on Rachel’s issue.

   I am originally from St. Louis as well, then I moved to LA (not NY, but obviously, but the analagy is similar given it was a move to a huge market from the midwest).

   I have told many people back in St. Louis this – you see more attractive women in LA in one day than you would in STL in about a month.

   Does this mean there aren’t attractive women in STL? Of course not. There are. But, like in LA, in NY, there’s more of everything – including attractive women, so the competition would be greater.

   Another thing that might pertain to Rachel. She doesn’t say if she was reared in STL, but I take it from her letter that she probably was. When I moved to LA, there were certain things that gave away the fact that I was from a different culture (part of the country in this case) – and make no mistake, STL is a vastly different culture than LA or NY.

   People in St. Louis are down to earth, salt of the earth, generally very parochia, and often unsofisticated.

   I am going to wager that East Coast men – which (gasp, I’d hate to say it) are generally more sophisticated that St. Louisans, are picking up that Rachel is slightly different than most New Yorkers they meet. Some may like that – a “small town girl” (New Yorkers think St. Louis is the sticks and that everyone there is raised on a farm). OThers may hold that against her (she ain’t one of us).

   Now, if that is what is going on here, then the right men will still like her. But, you can’t grow up in St. Louis, go on a date with a New Yorker, and not have them pick up that you’re different than most gals they meet. St. Louis is like a big small town. The cultures and the dialect are different.

   That might help explain what could be going on with Rachel’s hard luck on NY dates, but it wouldn’t explain the problems she’s having with her online dating attempts. That could come down to listing a PhD, listing that you’re originally from St. Louis (some East Coasters might think they’d be dating a farm girl), or your photo.

   When I moved to LA, I got lots of interest from the local ladies based on my looks. But, no doubt, once they met me, they knew I wasn’t Joe Surfer or the Sunset Strip Stud. Some probably held that against me.

   If you’re reading this Rachel, be yourself, don’t downgrade your intelligence, and let the chips fall where they may. Get your PhD, get out of NY, and come back to St. Louis where, while not as exciting, is a better pond for you dating-wise.

   St. Louis is a much better place to raise a family, anyway. Live it up there, enjoy your time, have as much fun as you can, and when you’ve had your kids, you can talk about your single days in New York City.

   Lotsa luck !

9. Ron May 1st 2008 at 03:45 pm 9

   Sorry for the typos on my post – I was working on two things at once.

10. downtowngal May 1st 2008 at 06:33 pm 10

    Evan you are WRONG about the ratio of men to women. The number you site is from the most recent census that includes women ages 18 – 80. so yeah, of course, women over 65 are more likely going to be widowed. The previous census in 2000 breaks the figures down by age group and actually shows even numbers for single and divorced/widowed people living in Manhattan (actually men slightly outnumber women in the 25-45 categories).

    I really hate these sensationalist headlines that are designed to shock women into thinking we’re all a doomed and create a negative vibe. “oh we should settle” or ‘women over 40 have a greater chance of blah blah” One dating blogger actually said that there are ‘2 women for every man in NYC’ – huh?

    Truth is, people DO meet and get married in NYC. I lived on the west coast for a while and it was tough out there but for differnt reasons (flakey guys, potheads, no sense of intellect). I’ve actually had better luck living in NY than anywhere else – I just make it happen for myself, get involved with things I do. I hear the same sob stories and dating drama from my friends in other cities; you just hear about NYC more because there are more people living here, and the publicity from Sex & the City-type of shows.

11. Evan Marc Katz May 1st 2008 at 06:55 pm 11

    Good for you for making things happen, Downtown.

    Two corrections:

    The ages of singles in the study were 20-64, which leaves out most widows.

    I wasn’t WRONG. I was citing the same exact article as thousands of mainstream media outlets.

    EMK

12. Sarah G May 1st 2008 at 07:51 pm 12

    I live in NYC and I must say that I find others’ impressions of my fantastic city amusing. The one thing that no one seems to comment on is that NYC is very diverse–you find people who are provincial thinkers with lousy grammar and then you find some of the most creative, intelligent, informed people on the planet here. And these two types will be riding the subway together. I know women who are models, bankers, filmmakers, stay-at-home moms, economists, musicians, grade school teachers, doctors, dentists, and even one scientist. You can’t make a general statement about “women in NY” that covers any of them, and certainly not all of them. So these broad statements about the NYC demographics don’t persuade me. It isn’t like you’re going to be “competing” with a single mom from one of the outer boroughs, but she’s factored into the NY guy/gal ratio, too. And unless you are traveling in certain circles, you aren’t going to be “competing” with the fashion models, either. There are 8 million people on the streets of Manhattan in any given day — you are going to see attractive people (which might be who the guys remember), and you are going to see a whole heck of a lot of average people, and you are going to see some unattractive people. We are not a homogenous bunch.

    Getting a PhD is a fantastic thing, and congratulations on your achievement. Any guy who is going to be intimidated in a bad way by that isn’t for you. It’s not like you can hide the fact that you spent all that time in school and (once you are out) have the job to show for it. Every PhD I know (and I know tons) has a life partner, and each one of them is with someone at their same level of education/ability/intelligence. I have noticed that most of them didn’t meet in grad school, though some did. It isn’t unusual for people to delay marriage until after grad school — I’m not sure why that is, but I have observed it — and you’ll find a lot of guys in that situation, too. I’m curious that you aren’t finding guys at school to go out with — there are all sorts of fraternizing activities at your school, I’m sure, and some arranged with other schools. Also, if you’re at Columbia, Juilliard, or any of the Ivies or Ivy equivalents (don’t ask me to define that), there are dating sites just for graduates from those schools. You might find like minds through those sites. I used to feel inadequate with some of my friends b/c I only have a masters and not a PhD — so please realize that there are guys who will want that in their mate.

    How to find them? Maybe through more targeted searches on the sites, maybe through events geared toward people who resonate on the same wave length, maybe through social networking sites about things other than dating, maybe through the alumni office of your undergrad institution. Or maybe through chance — there are a lot of cute guys from the Midwest here in NYC!

13. Steve May 2nd 2008 at 05:49 am 13

    
    downtowngal May 1st 2008 at 06:33 pm 10
    I just make it happen for myself, get involved with things I do. I hear the same sob stories and dating drama from my friends in other cities;
    

    I think single people ( myself included ) complain more about being single than actually doing something about it. Ask any person who is complaining about it being hard meeting people how many times s/he went out last month and how many people s/he introduced themselves too.

14. Steve May 2nd 2008 at 05:52 am 14

    All of this talk about New York City is making me hear my mother’s old Frank Sinatra records in my head and is getting me enthused for a road trip.

    New York City sounds like such a cool place to be, but it is a tough city. I know it would eat me alive. Like the Sinatra sound goes

    
    ” – if I can make it there, I can make it anywhere….”
    

15. Joe May 2nd 2008 at 02:37 pm 15

    While I think it’s great that people are using concrete numbers to support their arguments, it doesn’t do much good to mention studies without giving an exact reference. If it’s really true that, for example, men in LA take longer to settle down, then that should be reflected by a narrowing gap between single men and women with age. I think some pretty plausible explanations have been presented, but without numbers with verifiable sources to back them out, they’re merely speculation.

16. nycwoman May 2nd 2008 at 05:59 pm 16

    Well I sympathize with Rachel. I’m a few years older than her (4 to be precise) and find that I’m also lost in the shuffle of the “trading up for someone younger, hotter, thinner” dating scene in NYC. And frankly the standards in NYC and other major cities, are really really unrealistic. I consider myself a solid 7 in the looks department and it may sound lame of me, but I am a great catch if I’m given a chance. That is the hard part, getting guys to notice me, a woman who is appearance wise basically a dime a dozen woman on the streets of New York. I suspect Rachel may fall into this category as well.

    I’m so over online dating and the bar scene. So what’s a better than average, but still a dime a dozen girl to do? I joined groups and clubs (some for singles and some for platonic). I think that dime a dozen girls stand out more in a smaller social environment where guys aren’t presented with many many options (like online dating and bars) especially with those knockout girls that guys flock to!!!

    I personally would recommend not putting all your efforts into online dating in NYC. And yes I did look a the competition. I was floored at what I was up against. They REALLY WERE hotter, younger, thinner, and with bigger breasts.

    I’d say join some groups, volunteer, do some outdoorsy/sports things now that the weather is getting warmer. And when you do these things, do things you like…..then if you do meet a guy it will just be a bonus!

17. downtowngal May 2nd 2008 at 08:08 pm 17

    Sorry Evan, but I still think that lumping people ages 20-64 together is inappropriate, as women in their 20’s, for example, are looking for a different demographic than those who are 50+.

    Just because this stat is quoted in mainstream media doesn’t mean it reflects the true reality of dating. My point is that previous census data break the age groups down further and are therefore more telling. By highlighting that there are more single women than men as a theme for why it’s so difficult in NY distorts the picture.

    Anyone who has worked with numbers will tell you how they can be taken out of context. If your goal is to offer helpful advice then providing a skewed picture really does a disservice.

18. downtowngal May 3rd 2008 at 05:44 am 18

    Evan, I’d also like to add that I have a master’s degree in statistics and used to work for a market research firm where we studied demographic trends. We found that often times media soundbites are just that – and are used to grab headlines.

19. Ron May 3rd 2008 at 10:44 am 19

    I’d hate to say it for those New Yorkers out there, but I am surprised by those saying New York women are all that hot. I’ve got eyes, folks and discriminating eyes at that. NY women are not all that hotter than other places.

    Hottest of all – South Beach area on a Friday or Saturday night. Southern Cal also kicks NY’s butt in this dept.

    Chicago has it’s share of attractive women, but pales in comparison with South Beach and SoCal.

    NY does have some attractive women, but you guys are overstating it IMO.

    And yes, I’ve spent enough time there to know.

    Don’t mean to offend anyone – NYC is still one of the best cities in the world.

20. Ron May 3rd 2008 at 10:55 am 20

    Well, I just did a quick online search for women aged 21-39 on Yahoo personals, photos only, and physiques that were slim, fit, etc. only.

    Few “hot” women come up in the online listings. Maybe they go to other online sites.

    I think some of you gals are probably selling yourself short and giving other women in your area too much credit.

21. hunter May 4th 2008 at 12:26 am 21

    Another statistic for the gold digging “hot babes,” In Los Angeles, a big portion of the population is low to middle income…unusual for a major city…

22. Steve May 4th 2008 at 04:43 am 22

    Ron;
    About post #19. First everyone has different tastes. Second, as Sarah G mentioned the old saying “There are a million stories in NYC” is true, even people in this thread seem to have had different experiences in NYC. Lastly, I think I will corroborate the idea that the “always trading up” mentality can exist in NYC. It is a city, a densely populated one, and one where people are OUT and DOING things. I don’t know how super model dense it is, but on my brief visits there I have seen more women while simply going about my business then I do at home making an effort to find women.

23. Sara May 4th 2008 at 03:07 pm 23

    I had similar experiences in Boston too. While on Match it got to the point were I was doing all the winking and emailing. Very few men contacted me.

24. Kat Wilder May 5th 2008 at 10:32 pm 24

    You’ll get some insight into why it’s harder to find a partner in a place like New York by reading what Tim Harford refers to as “The Marriage Supermarket” in his book, “The Logic of Life: The Rational Economics of an Irrational World.” Scarcity is power, and too many women looking for marriageable men end up coming down with the Carrie Bradshaw blues.

    And, Evan, it isn’t much better on the West Coast, as I blogged about in my post, Where are the men? — http://blogs.marinij.com/katwilder/2008/03/where_are_the_men_1.html

    But, it doesn’t really matter where you live — it’s how you live, and if you’re happy going about your life, you’ll no doubt meet people with whom you can connect.

25. hunter May 8th 2008 at 04:46 pm 25

    Having gone dateless for months at a time, many times, it seems as if the 90,000 single men in Evan’s Blog, are all in the Los Angeles area.

Trackback URI | Comments RSS

Leave a Reply