Is Rape the Worst Thing That Can Happen to a Woman?

Evan Marc Katz

I’m going to tread lightly on today’s post. Rape is a very personal, very sensitive, very political issue, and emotions tend to run high around it.

But recently, I read a thoughtful, well-written piece by a UK escort named Charlotte Shane. In it, she asserts, from personal experience, that rape does not have to be the worst thing that could happen to a woman. For the author, it’s not even in the Top 5.

“Though some feminists regard ‘rape equals devastation’ as sacred fact, the notion that a man can ruin me with his penis strikes me as the most complete expression of vintage misogyny available. Common sense instructs us that it is far more ‘dangerous’ to insist to young women that they will be broken by an unwanted sex act than it is to propose they might have a happy, healthy, and sexually pleasant future ahead of them in spite of a sexual assault…

The truth is that it does not suit our social narrative to recognize that a woman can be raped and get on with her life, can maintain sexual and romantic relationships without counseling, won’t think of her rape every day, and won’t see herself as a ‘survivor’ or different in any material way. According to the cultural script, women are simply not strong enough to bear such an experience easily.”

I thought that this was a profound, thought-provoking take on things; one that I’d never seen expressed so eloquently before. I’ve had close friends who were raped before. I’ve even taken care of one in the immediate aftermath. But since I’ve never experienced it, it’s not my place to say what the appropriate response to an unwanted sexual assault is.

I will say, however, that I hope Ms. Shane is speaking for more women than just herself. No one is saying that you’re “wrong” if you let your rape define you, but then, it shouldn’t be wrong if you refuse to let your rape define you either.

Read the full article here and share your thoughts below.

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103 Comments »Filed Under Sex

103 Responses to “Is Rape the Worst Thing That Can Happen to a Woman?”

1. Julia 1

   Rape is diminished as a criminal act in our society and others throughout history. I don’t think this article helps reclaim women’s bodies by continuing to diminish what its like to be a victim of an assault. Rape comes in many forms and for many, will define their life. Especially if they were raped by a family member, as a child or brutally. But also it will always be in your mind, even if you can have healthy sexual relationships. I really hate the dichotomy she expressed either a woman thinks about it constantly and is paralyzed or she moves on. What is wrong in saying that I think about it all the time and yet I can enjoy sex. What is wrong in no longer feeling the shame that I did after I was drugged 2 weeks into my freshman year of college, in knowing that I was a victim and that I didn’t deserve it. It is traumatizing. Please don’t diminish the feelings of victims, we are all unique individuals with unique experiences. 

2. Kitty 2

   My God. Do people really imagine that rape victims (yes, victims) end up committing suicide just because they’ve socially conditioned to believe rape is a life-changing trauma? That somehow rape is just someone slying slipping it in when you’re not expecting it – not a brutal, violent, humiliating, degrading event that leaves people physically battered, torn, bruised, bleeding, with bowel prolapses, permanent internal injuries – not to mention the post-traumatic symptoms that can last forever? Rape isn’t just (or even) about sex, but about fear, violence, control and hatred. With the greatest respect to Ms Shane, the fact that she works as an escort suggests that she my have a slightly different approach to sex to the average woman (or indeed man – I’ve watched male friends fall apart after sexual assault too). For most of us, sex is (or should be) the most personal, vulnerable, deep, intimate and loving thing you can do with someone you love and feel safe with. If that act is turned inside out into a violent, angry, terrifying robbery of your body, how can it NOT affect you deeply? You may be able to heal in time. You may refuse to be defined by it. Bravo to that. But however you want to dress it up, rape is a deeply profound event that changes the victim forever. 

3. Selena 3

   My thoughts are I wish I hadn’t been curious enough to read that article. And WHY did you feel compelled to share it with this audience?

4. helene 4

   I’m not sure wht to say about the rape issue in this regard, but this hypothesis – that we do not HAVE to regard it as devastating-  has interesting parallels in my mind with the current societal norm that people HAVE to see infidelity as devastating. Whilst no one would argue that infidelity is distressing and unpleasant, the hysterical overdramatisation that tends to follow is, I think, unhelpful, and can only make the injured party feel worse. If we are told that something is a tragedy, we come to believe it IS a tragedy, and when it happens to us we react in a conditioned way to the fact that a “tragedy” has befallen us. I have not experienced rape, so like many people I feel ill-placed to make sweeping statements on the topic, but I HAVE experienced infidelity and honestly, its not as bad as people make out, if you choose not to view it in that way. People are human, bad stuff happens, but it doesn’t have to be the end of the world. Perhaps there is something to be said for dedramatising our response to rape as well – I don’t know. Interesting article.

5. Michelle 5

   Oh boy…here it comes!

   I agree with the article and the premise.  I’ve told my kids since they were young to not let any one external thing in their life ruin their whole life.  I would especially apply this to those who don’t seem to be able to escape from their childhood and parents to mature as adults.

6. RW 6

   Interesting.  A very different take on rape.  I’m also going to tread lightly because I have, thankfully, never been a victim of rape.  I will hesitantly volunteer an opinion though…it is less about “the notion that a man can ruin me with his penis” and more about the loss of control that the situation entails.  I’m sure that theft, or being leered at or being cut off all leave the victim with the same sense of impotence, just to a lesser degree.  Rape is so hurtful and personal because of the intimacy or lack thereof that is involved.  If the victim is able to feel the same anger that the author of the article did, she will probably heal quicker.  Unfortunately, at least from what I’ve heard, many women feel shame in equal parts.  Is rape horrible?  Absolutely.  Is it worse than murder?  Not to my mind but then again, I haven’t been raped.  I sincerely hope that the number of women who choose not to let rape define them continues to grow exponentially.
   Also interesting: “It is not women who have decided that rape is so heinous, but men.”  Maybe.  And maybe it was women based on what they imagined men would think.  Not the women who’d been raped.  The ones who hadn’t.  I don’t know.  Sometimes we are our own worst enemies. 

7. RW 7

   Sorry for the double post but I cannot get over the fact that the author is a sex worker.  Rape is never okay but she puts herself in situations where she is especially vulnerable to it.  She has chosen her profession.  I get the gist of her article but she is not in a position to compare herself to other women who have been raped.

8. Fiona 8

   Frankly, I find this article irresponsible. Articles which suggest that some women can move on easily after rape just give run the risk of giving some would be rapists and right wing politicians the idea that rape is not that bad and that just puts other women at risk. Counselling is the way that it is because rape really does destroy lots of lives. If some women don’t need it that is fine and no-one should be condemning women for being able to move on after rape but a lot simply can’t. In the case of the sex worker it seems that her rape was committed by someone who she was willingly engaged in a form of sexual activity with. While this does not in any way justify the rape, perhaps the trauma would have been greater had it been by someone that she had not been willing to engage in some form of sexual activity with. As for her 11 year old neighbour, she really can’t possibly know what she went through and should refrain from making dangerous assumptions.

9. Lucy 9

   She makes a great point about victim mentalities and how people find validation in that. I think it’s great how things have moved on so that certain topics are no longer taboo and that people can talk about them. But people are obsessed with over-emoting and labelling themselves. For example I was diagnosed with depression and an anxiety disorder. I see both diagnoses as describing my mind at that particular period in my life. I didn’t see them as states which couldn’t be adjusted and moved on from. You do get people with mental illness who label themselves as such and I really think it prevents recovery. I almost dropped out of college – it was that bad. But if I keep labelling myself as a sufferer of an anxiety disorder, then I will never move forward and find a new identity for myself. And that’s what rape victims do. They move beyond being a victim. I suppose that’s what the author is saying. She’s saying that women are victims enough without having that state projected onto them by the media. So find your own narrative for life. There is no solace in self-pity beyond self-indulgence. And certainly nothing inherently virtuous about being downtrodden, poor, a woman or whatever you make into your crux. The point is not that you don’t feel sympathy for people in bad circumstances; it’s that we all have rubbish to deal with in life. However it feels to you, no one else really gets it unless they know it too. Your suffering is of minimal interest to people living through their own kind of pain. Having humility and perspective goes a long way. I don’t think it’s possible to be truly compassionate without some humility.

10. Kathleen 10

    I agree with the article. 

    I was out running one day with headphones on. I didn’t hear the guy who ran up behind me. He tackled  me bringing me crashing to the ground . I didn’t know what had happened for a while until he started attempting a sexual assault. While he was stronger than me and outweighed me I turned out to be more feisty than he expected since Id spent 10 years training in martial arts. While it was a frightening situation, it empowered me because I was able to handle it and I learnt never to wear headphones again while exercising outside a gym. 

    I have empathy for anyone who has dealt with something traumatic. How resilient you are and what you learn from it though can influence your life in a positive way. 

    R W   Your comment about the sex worker feels judgmental and lacks compassion for her as a human being She didn’t give consent for what happened to her and you don’t know the circumstances of her life that brought her to “choose ” her profession. If an electrician gets electrocuted on the job can he not compare that trauma to someone else who got electrocuted?

11. Jennifer 11

    I enjoyed reading the author’s point of view on the subject. I think there is much to be gained any time we stop for a moment and think to question why we believe certain ‘truisms’. If you question your beliefs and wind up in the same place that’s fine, but I’d still say the questioning was a valid exercise.
    It may be easier to live in a world where things are black and white, all or nothing, and with very little nuance, but in my view it is not better.

12. Allison 12

    I agree with Selena #3.  This article was so offensive and presumptuous I couldn’t get through it, and I wish I hadn’t tried.  Can we go back to talking about dating?

13. RW 13

    @Kathleen
    No judgement intended with regards to her profession.  It is her life to do with as she chooses.  I’m not commenting on her life choices.  I am also not denying that her rape was a bad thing.  I am, however, commenting on the parallels that she draws or implies between her experiences and those of other women.  They are not the same thing.  Honestly, her article made me think.  I liked that.  I saw the point she was trying to make.  We treat raped women with kid gloves and maybe we are doing them a disservice.  I don’t know but the point is that it made me think.  

    However, I do feel that an electrician who is soaking wet and takes his finger near a live wire (not on but near) has a much greater chance of being electrocuted than say a non-electrician who was unexpectedly electrocuted.  In both situations the pain is undeniable.  But if the electrician were to turn around and write an article about the dangers of electrocution and how to move on after the fact and if the article has a slight twinge of “just get over it, it’s not that big a deal”, someone might feel honour bound to point out that if hadn’t gone near a live wire on purpose he might not have been electrocuted at all.

    You might say a live wire and a rapist are not the same thing.  Then again, a sex worker and an electrician are not the same thing either…

14. Karl R 14

    Julia said: (#1)
    “I really hate the dichotomy she expressed either a woman thinks about it constantly and is paralyzed or she moves on.”

    I noticed the dichotomies too. I don’t find it inconsistent to identify an experience as the worst in one’s life, without letting that horrible experience define your life, and still having a happy, healthy life.

    My father would probably consider the murder of his parents to be the worst thing that happened in his life. It defined our lives for the next six months. (Every weekend was spent cleaning out there apartment or handling other affairs associated with their deaths.) But life doesn’t stop because of one event.

    Kitty said: (#2)
    “not to mention the post-traumatic symptoms that can last forever?”

    My first serious relationship was with a woman who had PTSD from her rape. She also had a happy, healthy and sexually pleasant life. The PTSD was a rare interruption in an otherwise happy life.

    RW said: (#7)
    “I cannot get over the fact that the author is a sex worker.  Rape is never okay but she puts herself in situations where she is especially vulnerable to it.  She has chosen her profession.  I get the gist of her article but she is not in a position to compare herself to other women who have been raped.”

    I walk around a major city (and ride public transportation) after dark almost on a daily basis. In doing so, I am far more vulnerable to random violence than if I owned/drove a car.

    Does that mean that I’m not in a position to compare myself to other men and women who have been mugged and assaulted?

    RW said: (#13)
    “someone might feel honour bound to point out that if hadn’t gone near a live wire on purpose he might not have been electrocuted at all.”

    If the electrician wants to eat and pay the bills for the next month, he has to get over the trauma and get back to work. The person who works in another profession has the luxury of being able to avoid live wires.

    And if Charlotte Shane lacks other professional skills, she may be in a similar position as the electrician: Go back and confront the dangerous situation, or struggle to find another way to pay the bills.

    I don’t think your comment to the electrician displays much “honour”. Are you “honour bound” to be snarky?

    Fiona said: (#8)
    “Articles which suggest that some women can move on easily after rape just give run the risk of giving some would be rapists and right wing politicians the idea that rape is not that bad”

    The last time I was assaulted (attacked by four teenagers in broad daylight while walking down the street), I continued on to the yoga studio and did my regular yoga class. Getting assaulted wasn’t even the worst thing that happened to me that week.

    Is somebody going to use my experience to say that physical assaults aren’t that bad? That they shouldn’t be illegal? Is someone going to use my father’s experience to minimize the evil of murder?

    I don’t believe that people (as a whole) start acting stupidly because they’ve been exposed to more information. If people will only do what you think is right if they’re kept ignorant, than you need to reevaluate your position.

15. Amanda 15

    AMEN Kitty (#2)!

16. Ruby 16

    “Though some feminists regard ‘rape equals devastation’ as sacred fact, the notion that a man can ruin me with his penis strikes me as the most complete expression of vintage misogyny available.”
    
    
    I have to agree with RW (#7), when she says that author, as a self-described “prostitute” (read her bio), has put herself in a vulnerable position regarding rape, and she has been assaulted more than once.  Certainly that has influenced her reaction to the assaults she suffered. She even admits seeing one of her attackers a month after the attack for another encounter, and saying nothing. Her response to these acts is going to be very different to the response of someone who doesn’t trade in sex for a living. Frankly, she seems to enjoy exposing the details of her “assaults” a little too much for my liking. 
     
    What is up with the anti-feminist clap-trap? What is the point of this article? Of course, victims of sexual assault can move past a sexual assault – who has said that they can’t? Everyone – both male and female – struggles with the aftermath of such an violation in his or her own way, depending on the circumstances and on their own psychological make-up. I’ve known female victims who were able to move on, and male victims who were not. But no one suffers such a violation without enduring some physical and/or psychological damage that will need to be addressed.

17. Fiona 17

    Karl, with due respect, this is exactly what has been happening in the UK where we have had a former senior politician claim that ‘date rape’ isn’t this bad and some of the comments made by some of the Republicans in your country about women who are truly raped having bodies that can prevent pregnancy. Let’s not give these right wing morons any more ammunition to attack rape victims who have done nothing wrong.

    I am sorry to hear that you were assaulted on the way to yoga. Had you actually been raped on the way to yoga you may not feel it wasn’t the worse thing that happened to you that week. 

18. Ellen 18

    I have never been raped nor had a close friend who was raped, so good karma I guess. I have never even had to fight off a male.

    I was felt up by a stranger in an empty Army cruise ship movie theatre, though, when about 9. My parents were concerned but didn’t lose their heads or treat me as if I were a victim. I learned a lot from that. (i.e., not to overreact).

    I do think people are increasingly defining themselves by the central negative (or positive) event in their lives to the near exclusion of everything else and that worries me in how isolating it can make one. In how it crowds out every other thought in their heads, to their ultimate detriment. It’s not detachment, that’s for sure, and listen, Buddhist-like detachment works. For a whole host of problems, conditions.

    My one, overwhelming, and often negative, event has been raising an autistic daughter. ‘Cause she is both very smart AND autistic, which is a deadly combo. lol I spent three years exhaustively researching solutions, talking in chatrooms with other bright autistic people all over the world, sent her to various programs/camps, but then said to myself internally “move on now”. And I have. Today she is trying to make a life for herself in a group home in a nearby city. Has a paying job which she pushed for. That was a huge breakthrough imo. I visit, my ex visits, but few else. She is making new friends though, which I love.

    So my question is: Who’s burder is greater? The one who must spend years helping difficult, challenging individuals (or deal with chronic disease or recurring cancers) or the one who spent 7 minutes under a stranger and was penetrated? Who is ultimately brutalized more? I have often felt brutalized by my experiences with my daughter, by other’s ignorance or actions……     

19. RW 19

    @Karl R
    We’re talking about degrees of possibility now.  By walking around after dark you are putting yourself at risk.  It may be because you cannot afford a car or choose not to/are not able to get a car for another reason.  The point is you are more at risk of being mugged than someone who drives.  You clearly know this risk.  I’m going to make an assumption and say you take the precautions you can to avoid being mugged.  You may still get mugged and you would have my deepest sympathy.  On the other hand, if you didn’t take these precautions, were mugged more than once and following this adopted the attitude of “I was mugged, I got over it, so should everyone else who has ever been mugged because it’s not that big of a deal”, then no, you are not in a position to compare yourself with others who have been mugged.  Yes, I feel bad for you, yes, being mugged sucks, no you didn’t deserve it but it isn’t surprising.  What did Charlotte Shane think was going to happen when a man’s condom covered genitals were near her own?  The man is absolute scum and she didn’t deserve it but it wasn’t completely unexpected.

    I’m trying hard NOT to be snarky here…that was an ill fated attempt at ironic humour which clearly backfired (I was never good at humour )…but please don’t tell me you are comparing being an electrician to being a sex worker.  It is simple: her line of work has many dangers associated with it.  It is not accepted as a reputable career by society (I’m not debating the correctness of this, merely stating a fact) and it should not come as a surprise that many of her clients are unsavoury.  With the electrician, I think you completely missed the point.  Yes, he has to go back to work if he wants to pay the bills and will have to get over the experience faster but maybe next time he WON’T go near a live wire sopping wet.  If he absolutely has to then that is the danger associated with his line of work and while it is sad, it is not to be compared with the common man’s electrocution experience.

    Anyway, I feel like I’m on a runaway train, speeding far away from the original topic.  To restate the original point:  Charlotte Shane’s article made me think.  I’ve begun reevaluating previously held thoughts about rape in my head.  However, the big flaw in her article for me was the premise that the circumstances of her rapes were similar to those of most other women.

20. That East Asian Man 20

    The responses to this issue remind me of the statement in Hermann Hesse’s wonderful book, Siddhartha, that the opposite of every truth is equally true. And they reawaken my admiration and affection for Immaculee Ilibagiza.

21. Kathleen 21

    Great post Karl R 14 !   You bring up some tough heartfelt examples.

    Ellen  18  You are right  Many people do define their identity that way. The challenges you have dealt with must have seemed overwhelming. 

    When a critical care nurse, I had seen children suffer terribly with massive burns. Seeing what they endured was more traumatic to me than anything else Ive been through in my life.

    I also don’t know how miserable someones life may have been before they turned to being a sex worker by the age of 22. I can’t assume she had as many opportunities as I may have had so i can have empathy for her when others don’t.   

     

22. Lucy 22

    I get very annoyed when I see men falsely accused of rape. For example that French man – Dominique Strauss Kahn. There was no evidence of him being guilty whatsoever and yet there were feminist protesters against him outside the court. People were against him and supported her because she was poor and an ethnic minority and a woman. Well it turned out she had fabricated the whole thing but it was too late for him because it had already done him damage. Can’t believe those feminists outside the court – should be contempt of court really that the media were allowed to show those images. And this is one of the reasons I dissociate myself with feminists. They too often jump on the man hating bandwagon. The women who falsely accuse men of rape are awful. They make it so much harder for genuine rape victims to be taken seriously.

     

23. Selena 23

    Ruby, Very much agree with everything you wrote in #16. Especially,
     ”What is up with the anti-feminist clap-trap? What is the point of this article? Of course, victims of sexual assault can move past a sexual assault – who has said that they can’t? Everyone – both male and female – struggles with the aftermath of such an violation in his or her own way, depending on the circumstances and on their own psychological make-up. ”

    As someone who has had many friends and acquaintances confide in me about being raped, as someone who went through an attempted rape with an abusive lover, the common denominator IS the ability to move past it. Moving past it is not the same thing as minimizing it. Or dismissing it. Which is clearly what the author of this article, a prostitute, has chosen to do.

    This was a sad read on many, many levels.

24. Fiona 24

    Ellen, in answer to your question

    “Who’s burder is greater? The one who must spend years helping difficult, challenging individuals (or deal with chronic disease or recurring cancers) or the one who spent 7 minutes under a stranger and was penetrated? Who is ultimately brutalized more?”

    I would say what could you possibly know? You haven’t been raped. It has nothing to do with karma either. I am sorry to hear that you have an autistic daughter but what on earth does that have to do with rape? 

    Frankly, I shocked by the number of people on here lacking empathy and compassion for people who have undergone sexual assault and who are treating it like as if it is nothing worse than a slap in the face and something they can get over in a week. These people don’t have a clue what they are talking about. That is the real problem with that article. People start getting the idea that rape isn’t that bad and people should just easily get over it. Let’s hope that holds true if it happens to them.

25. Angie 25

    I think it depends how traumatizing it is. I don’t think rape defines anyone, but I think trauma deeply affects people and rape leads to trauma in many situations.  This is like saying “Does fighting in Afghanistan need to stay with a soldier for his entire life?”  Well, no, but if he’s traumatized, then it may well.
     
    People also don’t like letting rape victims discuss being raped.  If someone is an escort, they are probably more free to talk about the types of people they encounter (I’m not making judgements on escorts or people who use them) in their daily lives, but since many rapes are perpetrated by an acquaintance, people don’t like to know about it, or if they are violent, people like to shelter themselves from that, so while one may be able to vent about bad situations in their life or cry on friends’ shoulders, this is a thing that the average person can’t or won’t be proper support, so downplaying the role of counselors is not fair. 

26. Jennifer 26

    RW #19 I didn’t hear Charlotte say ‘I got raped, it’s no big deal to me so it shouldn’t be a big deal to anyone else’ What I heard her say was- what if a woman who has been raped doesn’t automatically feel that is it the worst thing that has ever happened to her. Can we make room for the narrative of that woman?

    I understand that the fact that she is a sex worker will make her opinion seem biased, and will cause some (not necessarily you) to discount it based solely upon that fact,  but I think it’s a question (can we make room for the narrative of that woman?) worth asking.

27. Shelly 27

    My Sister was gang raped and beaten viciously. She never recovered both mentally & physically.
    She committed suicide 4 years ago.
    I refuse to read this article

28. ANON 28

    hmmmm.   I think she is right in that it doesn’t have to become something that completely brings someone’s life to a halt.  However, having been raped when i was 10 DID actually change how I developed as a person.  I grew up being unsure of who i could trust.  I felt (and still feel) panicked in crowds.  This event definitly was a MAJOR influence in my life.  Do I not like sex?  Nope, love it.  Am I wallowing in it day after day?  No, most days i don’t even think about it.  Is it still a part of who I am?  Yes, and it always will be. 

    I am not someone who has sex for money or FWB’s or even the occasional first date romps.  I only have sex when in a committed relationship.  Does sex mean something different to me than to the author of the column?  YES.  It’s her job.  

29. ANON 29

    Sorry – posted before i finished. 

    The only thing I can say about this is unless it has happened to you, it’s pretty hard to know how you would feel about it.  I don’t think it is the worst thing that could possible happen in life.   Here is what i do know: it is devasting, it does effect you, it doesn’t mean it you are forbidden from enjoying sex or life, it does mean, it will probably be more difficult. 

30. Anon 30

    Years ago I slept with someone I had met while travelling. He was a tour guide that I had spent all day every day with for about a week. After I slept with him using protection, he then forced me to have sex without a condom. I was determined not to let the experience ruin my trip let alone my life so I went for the morning after pill the next day and carried on with my trip knowing that I would need to wait months for tests for STDs including HIV, herpes etc. I spent the first week after the event in total denial. I felt ashamed, worthless and blamed myself. Then I developed a huge lump. Convinced it was herpes, I was a nervous wreck and I was seriously considering throwing myself off a bridge. Luckily, it wasn’t. It was just damaged caused by him having been quite brutal. I spent a nervous 3 months waiting to be tested for every STD under the sun and only felt that I could start to put the whole thing behind me after having all the STD tests. it hasn’t affected my capacity to love and have a relationship but it has made me wary of boyfriends until they have been sleeping over for several weeks and I am sure they aren’t going to suddenly pounce on me without warning. Only my mother, my sister and my most serious ex boyfriend even know this happened to me.I felt too ashamed to tell anyone else. I haven’t been for counselling partly because I don’t want to stir up all those memories again.

    I feel a lot of sympathy with rape victims. I was able to rationalise that my experience wasn’t that bad because I’d already slept with the man willingly although in all honesty I wouldn’t wish either the experience or the several months of distress that followed on anyone. I am not sure I would have coped very well had I been diagnosed with herpes or HIV. I got through this experience in the end but I can very well imagine that it would have been a lot harder for me had it not been someone I had already slept with willingly. I don’t think that rape should be trivialised. 

31. Angie 31

    ^ Also, in trauma, the brain undergoes severe damage.
    Whenever there are flashbacks or triggers, your brain is exposed to a severe rush of fight-or-flight chemicals such as cortisol and adrenaline.  There are biological reasons why rape, and any other event that leads to trauma, cause long-lasting damage.   People shouldn’t judge other people’s wiring and how it leads to issues with their mental health!!!  It’s rarely *just* because someone experienced a trauma.  It is often that the person who experienced the trauma already is wired to have anxiety or depression issues and this sends them over the top!
    I don’t think an escort is the proper person to speak on this subject, and the article should have been counter-pointed by a rape or trauma specialist.

32. jules 32

    I thought the article was pure garbage.  She continually characterizes rape as being about sex (the “ruin me with his penis” comment, among many).  It is about power and control and fear and often violence, not about one body part.

    Every woman deals with it in whatever way she is capable of.  For some, perhaps they can look at like the author and see it as no big deal.  More power to them.  Some never get past it and commit suicide.  I suspect most are on a scale between those two extremes, based on the circumstances of her particular assault.  But to chide women and to chide society as coddling women who view their rape differently than she views hers?  Ignorant at best and disgusting and hateful at worst.   

33. Selena 33

    @Fiona #24

    Thank you for voicing some of the things I was thinking, but was reluctant to get into. This thread is starting to disgust me more than the original article.  I’ve known at least 20 people who have confided in me about being sexually assaulted. Statistically, I probably know many MORE who have been, who haven’t ever confided in me. All these commenters who are downplaying rape, who insist they haven’t known anyone who ever was…you DO know them, they just haven’t elected to tell you about it. Probably for good reason.

    Of all the people I’ve known who’ve had this experience, NONE, repeat NONE, have ever defined themselves by it. This is truly an arrogant and ignorant assumption – where does this even come from? Comparing infidelity and autism to rape? How clueless can you possibly be? Infidelity is a choice. Rape is not. Autism is obvious not a choice, but it’s not something done to you against your will by another person!

    To answer the stupid headline to this increasing stupid discussion:

    “Is rape the worst thing that can happen to a woman?”

    Every woman I know would say NO. The worst thing that could happen to them would be to lose a child.

    Perspective. Totally lacking in the article and on this thread. 

34. Amy 34

    Jennifer @11, I wish I had written your post, it captures my feelings exactly. But i also think the author minimizes the trauma of rape by saying that “a man can’t ruin me with his penis”  Many women are held at gunpoint or have a knife to their throat while being raped; the penis is not the big threat here. The trauma of rape results from many factors and I think the author simplified it too much. And to Shelly @27, my heart goes out to you.

35. Fusee 35

    Well, rape is a traumatic experience to most victims. And trauma changes people in ways that non-traumatized people can’t truly understand, despite all their rationalizations and irrelevant comparisons. Since rape involves sex, and since to most people sex is connected to intimacy, trust, and love, it should be pretty easy to understand how especially challenging the aftermath of a rape would be to most people, compared to other crimes or other adverse events. Obviously the same assault would not have the same effect on a person perceiving sex differently than most people do, and/or not prone to trauma the way most people are.
     
    To me, the big picture is that some people, men and women, have a personality style that is about willpower, confidence, and the rejection of any feeling of vulnerability (Enneagram type 8 or some counterphobic type 6, for those of you interested in a great psycho-spiritual development method). These characterisitcs that are very much biologically driven make such people extremely well equipped to move on in the face of adversity and much less sensitive to trauma than the other personality types. Their strength lies in their emotional resilience, but their weakness is that they usually lack the ability to feel deep empathy towards the pain of others.
     
    These positive characteristics can be acquired by the other personality styles through years of inner work, but this woman seems to fit this personality type since she was already showing solid sense of empowerment and reslience at the young age of 22. Interestingly she indeed ends her article relating how she felt worse by the demonstration of care than by the unwanted sexual act itself, as if being perceived as a victim was the most traumatic part of the crime that was committed. She obviously goes to great lengths to avoid seeing herself as a victim, and therefore as having to admit being in a vulnerable position.
     
    As a previous commenter wrote, this woman offers a differing narrative and I certainly think that there is space for her to share it. It makes the rest of us react and think, which is always a positive thing. It’s the narrative of a woman who seems to be trauma-resistant (at least resistant to trauma triggered by rape), but it does not represent the reality of most victims of terrible experiences. If anything it can come across as invalidating years of work dedicated in encouraging victims to report crimes and receive the care they need.
     
    By the way, victims of trauma do not “let” the experience define them. The trauma wreaks havoc their brain chemistry without their consent. If you are immune to trauma, more power to you, but please do not invalidate the majority of people who are not like you.

36. Simone 36

    OMG I can’t believe this post. You don’t just breeze through a rape so you’re a feminist? Or man-hating? And just when did “feminist” become a bad word, anyway?

    Another point, since it seems that women being raped isn’t really a very serious issue to a lot of folks on this board, just a reminder that men and boys are raped, too.

    I can’t believe I just typed that, here in 2012.

    I’m outa here. This is a new low.

37. K 37

    Someone said “if you haven’t been raped, you can’t know how it feels” – well just because you have doesn’t mean you know how everyone else who has been raped feels.
    There are different kinds of traumas and it’s not productive or possible to compare them in a meaningful way. Is it worse to experience X or Y? Are people in A situation suffering more or less than people in B situation? 
    When you look at something like child abuse, emotional trauma can have effects as devastating as physical or sexual trauma. A person’s mindset going into the traumatic situation, mental health, social support etc. and obviously the details of the situation affect how that person experiences the trauma and is affected by it. There is not one rule that explains how every person who experiences a trauma is affected.

38. Evan Marc Katz 38

    For the commenters who said that they’re out of here because I shared a thought-provoking argument that represents one woman’s unique take on post-rape recovery, you should really try to control yourselves. No one is invalidating YOUR experience. The author is reporting her OWN experience, which has been processed differently than yours. And since hers is a point of view we don’t hear often, I thought it was valuable to share. Some women clearly acknowledge the validity of her perspective. Some women are so triggered that they want to castigate the author and (apparently) anyone who is willing to link to the article itself. If sharing this article with you actually makes you stop reading this blog for commonsense dating advice from a male perspective, then, by all means, I wish you well in your search for love. But perhaps you should consider that you may be a bit hypersensitive to opposing points of view, which are, after all, allowed to exist in the universe.

    And, for what it’s worth, I’m pretty sure Jezebel posted a link to this article in July. Ideas are meant to be discussed and considered, not discarded and insulted simply because they don’t fit your personal narrative about how the world is supposed to work. If 95% of rape victims still think of their rape as the dominant force in their entire lives, that’s perfectly valid. But so are the 5% who don’t. That’s why I shared it with you.

39. Nadia 39

    Recently, a serial rapist was on the loose in my neighborhood. He had the habit of sneaking into single women’s houses at night and waiting for them in the dark, sitting in an easy chair. He spent long, drawn out nights with them, raping his victims more than once, using condoms, and then insisting they shower before he left. Needless to say, I was pretty creeped out. (They managed to trace his DNA by ripping up the sewer system in front of one of the victim’s house to retrieve the condom. No lie. He’s in jail now and all is good.) I wonder, how the sex worker who wrote that article would feel about rape if she had experienced what I just described, versus her own rape that occurred when she was jacking off one of her paying customers, which lasted only a few pumps. I guess I would have to agree with her unpopular idea of “degrees of rape.” Probably equally unpopular is a thought I’m tossing around that a woman who happily works in the sex trade industry may have a psyche better suited for the hazards of the job, so to speak. No, I don’t think a rape has to ruin a woman and, yes, I agree women are given subconscious messages of powerlessness by teaching us to fear it at every turn, but I still found myself bristling at the writer’s callousness. I hope she never has to find out if a more violent, unsuspecting rape would haunt her for life or not. Maybe she’d be writing a different article if that were the case. 

40. Heike Lorenz 40

    What one woman writes is a very personal experience, and how she handles it is based on her make up, her experiences, her childhood, her programs and her programming. It’s not something to generalize. 

    A rape DOES define WAY MORE than we can imagine! Not even I knew some of these things, and I’m doing my work for more than 18 years now.

    Instead of going into details, I highly recommend that as many women and men as possible read the book by Naomi Wolf: Vagina – A new biography. A brilliant book. About the vagina-brain connection and how it affects women’s consciousness and her ability to be the juicy woman and live the orgasmic life we’re actually meant to live (and men want us to live!), from a biological and spiritual point of view.

    The vagina and the various nerve systems of the whole pelvic area DO affect the brain. Women are multi-orgasmic, and their orgasms affect their brain, change their brains, and thus affect their consciousness. But only if the nerve system is intact, not traumtized, hurt or cut (as often done during delivery, by the way). 

    A book with tons of increcibly important informatio. And in the first part about what rape does to a woman’s body, how it interrupts this connection to the brain, how this affects the consciousness of women, and how this is a question that boils down to one of “life or death”. Studies show that the trauma of rape affects women very differently than any other trauma. It affects their consciousness and shuts down their light.

    Believe me, if you’re someone who wants to understand women and who wants to have a juicy relationship or marriage, you want to read this book.

    “The world will be saved by the Western woman” is what the Dalai Lama says againa and again. He’s right I guess. We have access to a lot of great information, such as Pamela Madsen’s book “Shameless”, Naomi Wolf, and many more raising their voices.

    Before making your mind up about rape – you definitely want to know what Naomi Wolf has to say regarding rape, assault, abuse. 

    I’m glad you brought this topic up, Evan. Naomi Wolf’s book is one of the most important books women and men can read, and if this inspires some of your readers to go and get the book, it’s been a great article of your!

    With love from Europe,
    Heike

     

41. Fiona 41

    Evan, the issue with the whole thing is imbalance. This woman is in a very small minority yet that is the only story you chose to share under a heading that invites people who know nothing about rape to question whether rape is the worst thing that could happen to a woman. In my experience when lots of people are being ‘hypersensitive’ someone has usually been very insensitive.  

42. Clare 42

    I read this article, and I agree with her central theory, that the way society defines an experience does not have to define it for everyone by any means.  That we should all reclaim our right and our power to define an event according to what it means to us as an individual, and according to our own experience and feelings around it.

    I suppose what I don’t quite understand is why she wrote this article.  If someone can shrug off a rape and move on fairly easily afterwards, well then, excuse my frankness, bully for them.  I don’t really think it’s in society or other people’s power to make you feel trauma that you did not actually feel, not if you’re strong and self-aware, and not extremely suggestible, that is.  There is no reason to pay any attention to the rape rhetoric, or go to the support groups etc., if it doesn’t apply to you.

    I for one am glad, though, that the help and support *is* there for people *do* need it.  For those deeply sensitive souls, or those who were hurt or brutalised, I am glad that the horror towards rape is there to validate their feelings.

    As I say, whilst I agreed with her premise that rape is a personal experience and allowed to be defined by the individual, I’m not really sure I understood what she would change.  What exactly is she suggesting people who deal with rape victims should do differently?  I don’t think anyone is telling them that they *have* to live with the rape forever, I think counsellors etc. are saying that if you find you never truly forget it, or if you still have feelings about it long after it happened, that is ok.

43. Francesca 43

    Having worked in teenage sexual health and couselling services I can verify that the majority of women/girls who get raped do move on with their lives. However there is a significant proportion that don’t move on. The ones that do move on often carry scars with them that they have to deal with. I was haunted by a 14 year old girl who after I asked how many sexual partners she’d had, she asked me did it count if she didn’t agree before she told the story of her gang rape.

    I also think that, while interesting, a sex worker does not have the same representative voice of women as is being portrayed. There is nothing wrong with having sex with multitudes of men, however many of my close friends couldn’t do it. Many of them can’t even have a one night stand without having a significant degree of attachment – and that’s a one off, perfectly consensual activity. For many women (not all), sex isn’t just penis/vagina dance, it involves some sort of emotional connection whether its lust, humour, joy, friendship, something. Often if its not there prior, soon after the oxytocin kicks in and they think a jerk is prince charming. Clearly to become a sex worker, that connection, or even a level of respect- need not be there.

    I am truly puzzled why she would have sex with someone who raped her. That’s like being abused by a boyfriend, and then going back to him.  Its one thing to not let it affect you, its another to deliberately go back for more. 

    I do disagree with the idea that rape being such a horror is a feminist idea. Even criminals don’t look upon sexual crimes lightly, often in jail, they’re separated from the other crims for their own safety. 

    Mental health wise – sexual assault is the worst assault there is out there. It is worse then medical, physical, mental, neglect on long term mental health outcomes. It is not something that is easy to fix. Even the UN has recognised rape as a war crime. 

    Ultimately I see where she is coming from. It is amazing that she has managed to come through her experiences and be able to brush them off as unfortunate incidences. However the horror that some sexually assaulted women experience cannot be brushed off so easily, and to say that we as a society should brush it off comes across as offensive as

    a. some sort of encouragement to perpetrators thinking “it’s not that bad, she should move on”
    b. such a disservice to the proportion of victims who do suffer and do need a high level of support 

44. Frimmel 44

    Let me start off with rape is horrible and terrible and should be punished and so forth or please don’t label me as a rape apologist but here is more food for thought:
     
    http://www.owningyourshit.blogspot.in/2011/06/how-feminism-hates-women.html
     
    “Today, I’m going to try to explain a few ways feminist discourse and activism with respect to the problem of rape, harms women. The first lies in feminist academia’s arbitrary and dismissive attitude toward women’s actual experiences to further their agenda of manufacturing a rape epidemic.” 
     
    “Back in 1850, the shame and personal devaluation a woman suffered when her sexual honor was gone was very practical and very concrete, and the consequences to her future absolutely dire. It hardly mattered whether her honor was taken by rape or because she had consented to sex. Either way, she had no further value as a woman.

    But now, in the 2010s, there is no logical reason for any woman to feel ashamed or devalued as a woman because the “sanctity” of her sexuality was violated–because women’s sexuality is no longer considered sacred, and the concept of sexual honor no longer exists in any practical way. Considering how society’s views on women who have sex outside of marriage, and of women’s value as more than wives and mothers, have changed, a woman’s feelings of fear, trauma, violation and victimization associated with rape ought to be similar to those associated with any other form of assault. There is no logical place for shame and loss of self-worth in a world where there is no shame in a woman having sex, and no real-world value placed on her sexual virtue.

    Yet this reaction to rape–a reaction that is very real to many women, despite the fact that it has no logical basis–has been allowed to dominate the entire public discourse on rape.”

45. Alexis 45

    Yes, WHY on earth did you publish this Evan? I wish I didn’t read it either and am angry it was sent to me. I signed up for dating advice NOT to read articles about rape and the ‘appropriate’ response to it. There is no ‘appropriate’ response – there is everyone ones individual, personal response. It is a woman or mans personal journey to recovery.

    Also, rape is NOT just a penis. How insulting. It almost always involves violent assault, control, dominance, intimidation, restraint, violation that can affect the emotional depths of a woman. If not on a concious level, an unconcious level. A womans soul and unconcious needs and deserves time to work through any crisis. Our soul and unconcious isnt a chalkboard that can just immediately be wiped clean..processing needs to take place.We arent just computers that can be formatted, the mind and soul is far more complex than that.

46. Karl R 46

    Jennifer said: (#26)
    “Can we make room for the narrative of that woman?”

    She’s not alone in having that narrative. One of my close friends was raped, and had surprisingly little emotional trauma, even at that time. And I’ve had enough friends (including men) tell me about their rapes to recognize that her story is unusual.

    My friend isn’t a sex worker. She was just a normal 20-something who was raped by an acquaintance at a party.

    She doesn’t talk about it much. She’s gotten tired of people telling her how she should feel about the experience.

    Like Selena (#33), about 20 people have told me about their rapes. I think they find it easier to tell me, because I let them tell me how they feel.

    Their stories are always complicated.

    Ruby said: (#16)
    “She even admits seeing one of her attackers a month after the attack for another encounter, and saying nothing. Her response to these acts is going to be very different to the response of someone who doesn’t trade in sex for a living.”

    One girlfriend of mine had been repeatedly sexually abused by her father as a child. She had chronic bouts of moderate to severe depression and usually ended up in the hospital from the severe episodes.

    She still called and visited her father regularly. I find that very difficult to understand. (They don’t talk about what he did to her, either.)

    As I said … complicated.

    I don’t think we gain a greater understanding about rape by trying to silence Charlotte Shane’s story.

    Anon said: (#30)
    “I felt too ashamed to tell anyone else.”

    A lot of people feel that way after being raped.

    We really need to reverse the cultural perspective. All of the shame should be attached to the person who commits the rape, not the person they raped.

    No exceptions. Not even when the rape involves a sex worker.

    Fiona said: (#17)
    “the comments made by some of the Republicans in your country about women who are truly raped having bodies that can prevent pregnancy.”

    There will always be idiots. Representative Akin and the other two Republicans were crucified in the press (and hopefully the polls) for their ignorance.

    My friend may not have been traumatized by her rape, but she has no patience for that kind of stupidity. In her words (about Representative Akin), “How can someone that stupid survive to adulthood?”

    If any politician tries to use my friend’s experience as “ammunition” to weaken rape laws, I’m going to have to go through her house and hide the ammunition (and the guns) from her.

47. Evan Marc Katz 47

    @Alexis#45 – I explained why I sent this in #38. I deal with men and women and sex and gender issues. This is one of them. And if you’ve been reading for awhile, there have been no shortage of times when conversations about promiscuity and pre-marital sex have devolved (with no help from me) into discussions about rape, largely due to our feminist readers. So to tell me what I can and cannot post on my own blog because it offends your delicate sensibilities really falls on deaf ears.

    If you don’t like the headline of an article, don’t read it. There’ll be a lot more free dating advice coming up, I can assure you. But please, don’t yell at me because you read an article that you didn’t approve of. I didn’t make you do it.

48. Alexis 48

    Lucy..

    Your comparison of your anxiety/depression to being raped is weak and insulting. It shouldn’t even be brought up in the same conversation. As for victim mentality, THEY WERE A VICTIM. They didnt ask for it and have every right to say they were victimised. It is their journey to recovery, it is incredibly disrespectful to mention ‘victim mentality’ like they are doing something wrong. You clearly have no idea about this subject. In regards to people ‘over-emoting’ and ‘labelling’ themselves. There is no ‘over-emoting’  when it comes to rape – there is just the natural emotions, pain and trauma that can obviously follow rape. 

    And lastly LUCY, ‘we all have rubbish to deal with in our life’… yes, of course everyone has problems to deal with in their life. But events that involve extreme violence, rape and trauma is not just a bit of ‘rubbish’ to deal with. It can be a profound life event that deserves any response he/she has. It is his/her journey to take. I think everyone would also agree that generally speaking on the scale of traumatic events one can experience, a bout of depression/anxiety could be no where near as high as being raped. Anxiety/depression, while intensely painful (from experience), does not involve an external person taking control of you and damaging you physically, it does not involve the possibility of pregnancy, STD’s. It just involves your own struggle with your mind/soul. Physical and sexual abuse is in a league of its own and I refuse to see it minimised. 

49. Ruby 49

    KarlR #46
     
    “Ruby said: (#16)
    “She even admits seeing one of her attackers a month after the attack for another encounter, and saying nothing. Her response to these acts is going to be very different to the response of someone who doesn’t trade in sex for a living.”
    One girlfriend of mine had been repeatedly sexually abused by her father as a child. She had chronic bouts of moderate to severe depression and usually ended up in the hospital from the severe episodes.
    She still called and visited her father regularly. I find that very difficult to understand. (They don’t talk about what he did to her, either.)
    As I said … complicated.
    I don’t think we gain a greater understanding about rape by trying to silence Charlotte Shane’s story.”
     
    I’m not sure how you can compare a woman visiting her father, even with the complicated issue of child sexual abuse, to a an adult woman continuing to see her paying customer for sex. They’re at different ends of the spectrum.
     
    Charlotte Shane (a pseudonym) is entitled to her beliefs and to her experience, and i am entitled to disagree with her. As her article is about a prostitute’s encounters with her “johns”, I just don’t see her experience as adding anything particularly relevant tor noteworthy to a discussion of rape for the vast majority of women. It certainly has nothing to do with why women come to a dating site, and isn’t even related to date rape. That’s MY two cents.

50. Alexis 50

    Ellen..so does length of time determine a traumatic event now? I dont care if it was 7 seconds..a rape victim experiences layers and layers of trauma ranging from emotional and physical, abduction – he/she is held AGAINST their will, violently hit and intimidated, terrorised, torn, risks pregnancy, STD’s. Events like this arent just ‘difficulties’ in life – they ARE moments that can terrify you to your core and tear at a soul.  How on earth can you compare violent abusive rape to the troubles of raising an autistic child?? Did you think you were going to be killed when raising your autistic child? Did  you get pregnant or contract a STD? DId you have to have operations to sew you back up? Did you have terrifying flashbacks, night after night of nightmares? Where you ‘triggered’ emotionally? You havent been raped, you havent known anyone to be raped…so how can you have any idea in order to compare? People like you simply dont get it at all. It is like all abuse victims – it goes deep. Im certainly not saying its a life sentence, but I refuse to have people with no experience or knowledge on rape and abuse to draw incredibly insulting comparisions.

51. narr 51

    So the author has a different take on rape.
    Isn’t she entitled to have a different opinion on the matter? It’s HER perception of how rape affects someone and whatnot based on HER experience, background and everything else combined. The article above is solely about HER perception on rape, not yours or anyone else’s.
    Of course one cannot always agree with someone else’s opinion. Thus, disagreeing with her thoughts on the topic is very much understandable and a healthy debate is, in my book, always welcome.
    However, her viewpoint is not better than yours. And, with that same token, your viewpoint isn’t better than hers either.
    Rather than dismissing her thoughts in a very poor manner just because she doesn’t agree with your take on rape, why not encourage an adult like discussion.

52. Evan Marc Katz 52

    Alexis, again. I have not minimized rape. The author has minimized rape only for herself, and wondered aloud why others haven’t done so. You really have to stop taking others’ opinions so personally. If it doesn’t apply to you, then let it go. And, per your last sentence, the author does have experience with rape, so you can’t tell her that her opinion is any less valid than yours.

53. Selena 53

    Karl R. : “I don’t think we gain a greater understanding about rape by trying to silence Charlotte Shane’s story.”

    And I don’t think we gain a greater understanding reading her story either.

54. Alexis 54

    Oh, Evan. You’re out of your depth on this one.

    No woman on here will appreciate being told to ‘control themselves’. It is extremely patronising and unneccesary. Like you said, we are all entitled to our opinion. You are showing an obvious bias by reacting so negatively to those who haven’t supported the article. I am intrigued by your comment that it was ‘feminist’ readers who led topics of infidelity to rape. How did you know if they were feminist? Does leading infidelity topics onto rape mean you must be a feminist? I am picking up that you may have some negative feelings towards these women. Is that why you posted the article? I am honestly intrigued to know.

    Considering that quite a number of women responded exactly as I did, I doubt that it is down to ‘delicate sensitivities’ or ‘hypersensitivities’. You yourself started your post with stating that it is a ‘sensitive topic’. I’m sorry to say that I don’t accept that women who were offended by this post are the problem here.

    Considering every woman who signed up to your blog did so because you advertise yourself as offering ‘commonsense dating advice’ you shouldn’t be surprised that women are questioning why you posted an article on rape at all? Like you said yourself it is a deeply personal, sensitive topic. That is why they have specialised professionals equipped with the training, knowledge and SENSITIVITY to counsel victims, offer support and advice and host online forums discussing the topic. You don’t. You’ve just posted an article on rape to a group of women expecting dating advice. Of course many are going to be shocked and insulted based on that alone. You clearly dont know how to manage peoples responses and the fall out of this highly sensitive topic. I find it really irresponsible. And in the end the message we recieve from you for responding (which is what you wanted) is for us to ‘control ourselves’. You might get some that agree but of course you are going to get some who get really angry, really emotional, have outbursts, lose control – you knew the delicate area you were treading into. 

    I’m sorry to say it but the one thing you advertise as having (but lack on this topic) is ‘common sense’.  

     

55. Alexis 55

    Evan, the post re: minimising rape was not aimed at you. Nor was it directed at the author. It was directed at readers who compared the difficulty/trauma of overcoming rape to over coming depression/anxiety. And to the woman who questioned wether 7 minutes of rape was more difficult/traumatic as raising an autistic child. Again, you started this post by stating that this is a personal and sensitive topic. You’re right – it is. As someone who has been raped it is incredibly insulting and ignorant for people to draw such  comparisons. So yes, it is personal and I respond so. I think it is important for them to understand that from someone with experience that they are light years apart in experience. People need to know this.

56. Evan Marc Katz 56

    Alexis, I let your insulting comment thru, even though the rules of the blog say to not insult your host.

    This will be the last response I allow you to write, however.

    You’ve already admitted that you are angry, emotional and losing control. That is your right. And it is my right to post what I want on my blog because I think it’s interesting and relevant. Women bring up rape all the time here. But when I do, it’s irresponsible? Once again, this article was originally posted by Jezebel, which is unabashedly feminist. They presumably do it for the same reasons I did: to provoke thought and discussion. But discussion is about the merits of the author’s point of view, not about insulting the guy who shared the article itself. Jeez.

    So really, if you don’t like me or you don’t like my advice or you don’t agree with my right to share what I want on my blog because it doesn’t agree with you, that’s fine. Leave. I’m not offended. I just think that you’re being thin-skinned and shortsighted. I shared an article with you. You didn’t agree with it. Welcome to the internet.

    No reason to go on the attack. That, my friend, is commonsense. Your behavior, on the other hand, has been purely emotional, without any regard for anyone else’s point of view. I suggest you find a blog that never says anything provocative or never says anything that disagrees with your world view.

    It will never upset you and you will never gain a greater understanding of how others think when you cocoon yourself in an echo chamber. Good bye and good luck to you, Alexis.

57. Selena 57

    All do respect Evan, but you did shut down a discussion on date rape last month that was much more relevant to dating than Ms. Shane’s story. So it was quite surprising you would link to this article – which has nothing to do with dating, and marginally to do with rape.

    I would find Ms. Shane’s article more likely to appear on a website for practising prostitutes. And the headline wouldn’t be “Is rape the worst thing that can happen to a woman”, it would be “How I maintained my detachment after a few bad tricks”. Because that’s really what it is about.

58. Christine 58

    I will state from my own personal experience that rape affects EACH person differently.  I read with interest the above comments, many of which were heated.

    Its been 21 years and I am still mildly affected.  My situation involved an ex exboyfriend, whom I had broke up with after several instances of control issues, & when minor physical violence abruptly surfaced.   Several days after the break up, he showed up crazed and drunk, banging windows and broke into my house at 3 a.m., assaulting me – beat me to a pulp, choked me, pinned me down and raped me, and threatened to come back to kill me if me if I reported him.  Knowing he had a gun at his house, I lied to the x-ray tech the next day about “falling down the stairs” and bruising my ribs.  The tech knew I was lying because he asked me about 5 times what really happened and how I got choke marks on my throat from falling down stairs.   Oh, I returned to work after a few days off saying I had a “car accident”.  

    I dealt with it without therapy, living in a city without family, now thinking back not sure if therapy was as mainstream as it is today.  I am sure personality and mindset has something to due with how an individual processes, overcomes and recovers from the trauma of a rape experience.  I have always been independent, one of those Type A’s, which probably helped me navigate through it.  I didn’t date for nearly a year, hanging out with close friends is good therapy.

    Ramifications???  I am 48 and afraid to walk by myself in the dark to my car.  I sometimes but not always I get panicky about someone jumping out and beating me up.  As a divorced mother of 2 (after 15 years of marraige), I am totally fine being alone in the house when my kids are with their father.  Intimacy, dating, and male companionship is not an issue, I dont have flashbacks or any of that.  However this past Monday, I went thru a jury duty selection, the case at hand was rape/kidnapping etc.   When I got called up, as I was under oath, I had to divuldge to the attorneys on the case that i would be a biased juror due to my experience as a victim.  And they asked details.   It opened up a can of worms that was buried and has bothered me the entire week.

59. Lucy 59

    Alexis, that isn’t what I was saying at all. What I meant was that you can’t compare personal tragedies. So if one person loses one child, another person can’t go and say, “My tragedy is worse than yours. I lost two”. Because you can’t put your own personal traumas on a scale with other people’s. I don’t think that’s the right way to deal with loss or a traumatic event. You never get over it by trying to convince other people of your pain or your victim-hood. You get over it by reconciling in some way to yourself. For example lots of people died because of Hurricane Sandy. I wouldn’t go around saying “Well the Japanese tsunami was worse. These people are overreacting”. Because I understand that individual pain is powerful and I don’t think you should try and rationalise it away. It’s very easy from a distance for someone to do that. And if someone has gone through a lot, then I truly sympathise but I don’t think that some people are more worthy of sympathy than others because of the way they deal with their pain.

60. Lucy 60

    And Alexis, you cannot tell me that I do not have insight on physical abuse since it is something I have genuinely experienced. I did not bring it up because it wasn’t relevant to the point I was trying to convey. But it goes to show that you should not make these assumptions about me without even knowing me or my experiences in life.

    The writer of the article Evan posted…well I do not believe she was minimising rape at all. She has found a way to deal with her personal pain. It may seem like she is sweeping aside something serious but it would have taken her a whole lot of trauma and deep-thinking to even get to that stage in her thinking. I strongly agree with essentially what she is saying. I think people own their own feelings and thoughts, and no one should preside over them. No one should tell someone that they’re not reacting to something properly, unless that reaction has a real impact on other people. Some people cry, some people don’t…whatever. I’m not going to be the person who says – “You’re not upset enough”. People should be more all-embracing.

61. Sunflower 61

    Try to find peace Alexis   Sometimes the worse experiences in life can make us a better person in the future.

62. nathan 62

    Evan, posting an article like this about rape to a blog written for women, and then responding to women who are upset by it in the manner that you do, is really poor form. I understand the desire to spark discussion. In fact, I can even see where both you and the author of the article desire to empower women. However, the way she writes, and the way you have responded, undermine that completely.
     
    For the record, I was sexually assaulted by a visiting male professor during my undergrad days. For all sorts of reasons, including a hell of a lot of self-loathing and shame, I never reported it. In fact, because men “don’t get raped” – this was before the Catholic priest scandal, Sandusky, and the rest that made it a little more acceptable to speak of such experiences. Anyway, it took years for me to reclaim power and agency in my life, both in intimate relationships and in the rest of my life. Who cares whether it was the worst thing that happened to me, or whether I learned a lot of good things from the experience (which I did), it sucked greatly, negatively impacted me greatly, and isn’t something to be trivialized or minimized.
     
    What really bothers me about the way this comment thread unfolded is that it’s exactly what often happens when rape survivors open up to others who haven’t been through such things about their experience. If you display heavy emotions and aren’t particularly rational in how you talk about what happened, you’re told some variation of “stop being so sensitive,” the validity of your story is questioned, or you are given some sort of pep talk about taking the bad and getting stronger with it. That’s kind of how I read the author’s article. As something of a pep talk to women to take their power back. Something that needs to be well timed in order to be effective, and isn’t – in and of itself – thought provoking or useful in pushing the general societal conversations about rape forward.
     
    Along those lines, Evan, you might consider that one of the main reasons why you are getting so much flack here is that in the US, Canada, and the UK – where almost all of your regular readers live – there are highly public, politicized right wing attacks on nearly every gain women have made in the social sphere. And specifically on rape, politicians and ultra conservative religious leaders are getting plenty of air time for saying all sorts of ignorant and vial things, while their less flamboyant friends are pushing for the kinds of legal shifts that will take our countries back at least a half a century. This is the climate you’re introducing this post in. And the ways in which you and some other readers toss words like feminist and hypersensitivity around play right into that climate. I would never suggest silencing voices like Charlotte’s, but I do think that given the audience, and the social/political climate, presenting such an article in a way that doesn’t simply flip triggers and provoke people requires great care.
     
     

63. Evan Marc Katz 63

    Nathan, this is all I had to hear from you: “I would never suggest silencing voices like Charlotte’s”. Alas, that’s what the critical readers have said. The author shouldn’t have written something so offensive. And I shouldn’t have posted it. The only thing I said was that this was an interesting take that I hadn’t heard before. I never opined with my take, since I don’t have a take. I’ve never been sexually assaulted, so far be it from me to weigh in. The author has. As such, her opinion is as valid as yours.

    Choose a side, bud. You either think it’s okay for me to post this piece (with little to no opinion on my part) or you think that these voices should be silenced. Don’t come and get all high and mighty on me when all I did was link to an article and defend myself for the act of posting it.

    You don’t have to agree with the author’s take on rape as it affects you, but you can’t tell me that you’re not being hypersensitive to another point of view by demanding that I not post such pieces.

64. Evan Marc Katz 64

    Oh, and @Selena - that’s some selective memory right there. I (tried to) shut down a comments thread that began talking about rape, because the article itself was NOT about rape. This article WAS about rape. And since, as readers have pointed out in these very comments, rape is something that women have to constantly fear every time they go out with a man, it would seem that a discussion about how one woman survives her rape would be relevant. If you don’t think it’s relevant, stay tuned until Monday, when another article will be posted.

65. Lucy 65

    Nathan, I’m politically on the right in Britain (which is quite different to US). In US, the left is righter than our right wing. So you can’t really compare them. Anyway, I’m not aware of any public attacks on women’s rights. In the UK, if anyone posts anything racist or homophobic on Twitter, you can get arrested and put in jail. And religious nut jobs are pretty quickly shut down. The Home Office has banned L. Ron Hubbard and Westboro Baptist Church from ever entering the UK.  If anyone said anything highly controversial in the public sphere, there would be consequences because of obscenity laws. Recently a news presenter called Andy Gray was sacked after making a sexist comment thinking he was off air. There was a huge scandal about it. 

    But I do agree that there needs to be a new dialogue surrounding rape. It is still very difficult to get convictions and there are still too many people saying that women bring rape on themselves. And yeah there needs to be more recognition of the way men experience sexual assault and sexual harassment. It’s just wrong. I’m sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds awful.

66. Lucy 66

    Oh and just to add, I sincerely hope my comments didn’t insult anyone. Not my intention at all – just got lost in the heat of the moment

67. Kathleen 67

    Evan 

    I find all your topics thought provoking and I learn something from different points of view along the way. It helps me think through different issues in more depth.

    As I said I was sexually assaulted but I am not offended and insulted by your topic nor the authors point of view. I have great empathy for anyone who has suffered and still suffers and hope they can get the help they need. The concept that some people can define themselves by their positive or negative challenges is also a valid point of view.

     I do think someone taking out their anger against you personally is misguided and offensive on this blog.  

68. Kristen 68

    People might want to remember that this is Evan’s blog and he gets to decide what to post and its relevancy. I understand this topic is clearly very provacative and one can certainly conclude, rightly or wrongly, that it can be expected to stir up strong emotions. At first I didn’t find it relevant to me because I’m here for dating advice, not advice on how to deal with the aftermath of rape, but when I thought about it more broadly, I think it is relevant to most people who’ve experienced trauma.

    I am certainly not in fear of rape every time I go out on a date or anytime I go out on a date. You can live a life in fear but then you are living in the future, not the present. Likewise, if you have been experienced any trauma, and that trauma becomes the focus of your life, you are living in the past, not the present. It’s not specific to rape more than any other bad thing, although on the scale of bad things, rape is certainly near the top of most people’s lists. I think that is basically what the author of the article is trying to get across.

    People have very different reactions to trauma. Some people are just not capable of getting over trauma in my experience and will have a hard time not living in the past or future. Whether this is a caused by social conditioning, conscious or unconscious choice, or by the nature of the trauma, I’m not qualified to say. Any time you compares your own trauma to someone else’s trauma to figure out who got it worse, or who is dealing with it “correctly” or “better,” you are doing a disservice to all involved. No one on earth is going to make it through life without getting hurt. Everyone has to figure it out in their own way. This is just one woman’s perspective. If it serves you, use it. If not, don’t. Easy as that.

69. Ruby 69

    This may be Evan’s blog, but but without people to read it and buy his services and products, it wouldn’t exist. And it seems to me that the majority of readers are scratching their heads over this one. As far as Charlotte Shane’s take on being raped, well, it’s not like she can report that she’s been raped by her customers to the police. So she’s left trying to rationalize it all away. 
     
    In the previous comment thread where the subject of rape came up, we were told that it wasn’t so bad because that type of crime is at an all-time low. That’s great, but it doesn’t make the potential for it any less ssary for us. Now we’re being told that the experience of a woman who engages in an extremely high-risk profession, where reporting the crime isn’t even an option, is somehow relevant to the rest of us. What’s her take on it? That maybe being raped isn’t as bad as “feminists” would have us believe? This is a woman who’s already decided that having sex with strangers for money also isn’t a problem.
     

70. Fiona 70

    Lucy, right wing UK is right wing. Don’t kid yourself. Google Ken 
    Clarke and date rape or Jermery Hunt and abortion or Andrew Mitchel and pleb. 

71. Evan Marc Katz 71

    @Ruby:

    1) My business existed since 2003. My blog started in 2007. I assure you, my business would exist if I shut the blog and the comments down.

    2) The majority of the readers aren’t scratching their heads. Many thousands of people have already read this. About ten of you are causing all the ruckus. Let’s get some perspective here.

    3) I offer this blog for two reasons – one, to clarify my thoughts on issues surrounding dating and relationships and two, as a free public service to readers. As a regular reader and poster, you’ve benefited from it, as have I. Frankly, I don’t care if you don’t like this one article. Wait ’til Monday. There’ll be another one then that you might like better.

    4) I’ve already said – too many times – that you can disagree with Ms. Shane but you shouldn’t yell at me for airing her view. I will repeat that to you as well. It’s not like posted an article that was pro-rape. I posted an article by a woman who discovered that her rape didn’t have to be the defining feature in her life. I thought that was a hopeful take. I shared it.

    5) No one ever said rape “wasn’t so bad”, so please don’t suggest such a thing. I did cite a study reported in the New York Times that said rape has gone down by 70%. That’s still 30% too high, so to speak. Rape is completely unacceptable. That doesn’t mean, as Ms. Shane said, that all rape victims should deal with it in the exact same way. Not sure how you can disagree with that.

    6) I have no problem with feminists, inasmuch as feminism means true equality with men. I would consider myself a feminist and certainly consider myself an advocate for women, given how much of my life I’ve dedicated to serving their best interests. Alas, some feminists have a problem with me. Generally, their issue is that I try to take an evenhanded approach to responsibility, while many feminists reflexively assume that anything a woman does is unassailable and all the ills in the world are caused by men. This, as you know, is not true. So when I criticize women on certain issues or defend men on certain issues, I get labeled a misogynist. Which is, on its surface, about the biggest crock of shit imaginable. I’d have to really hate myself if I spent the greater part of ten years talking to women on the phone to help them find love – only to learn from feminists that I secretly hated them.

    7) You want to threaten to leave this blog? I understand. But first, how much money have you spent on my services and products? Exactly. So what am I losing if I lose you as a reader? Nothing – except the aggravation of defending myself of posting an article that interests me on my own website.

    Have a good night.

72. nathan 72

    I went back and read the whole article. I admit that I didn’t make it through the first time, and I wanted to see what it was specifically that turned me off. The first thing that stands out is the experience she recounts of being raped anally, needing an expensive surgery, and then seeing the same client again a month later. She claims, following his silence about the previous incident, to feel “more powerful than him,” suggesting she knows something – what that something is, who knows – more than him. As we in the literary world often ask “Is this a trustworthy narrator?” Her take on this incident sounds pretty twisted in my book.
     
    The next thing that strikes me is citing Camille Paglia, well known as a right wing provocateur. Amongst her major influences are Sigmund Freud and Ayn Rand. Every last article I’ve read by her – and I read plenty during my graduate days thanks to a certain art history professor – was filled with appeals to see the weakest points of Freudian psychology – the Oedipal and Electra Complexes foremost – in everything from Hitchcock films to Rembrandt paintings. Again, not exactly the kind of source that fosters trust in the argument being offered.

     
    Thirdly, she makes the really interesting point that our cultural attitudes about rape were shaped by men, and that some of what we see today is still playing out those disempowering, sexist narratives of the past. I totally agree, and in fact, would even support her view that there needs to be more liberation around the stories we tell about rape and it’s aftermath. Even though I suffered a lot, I rarely think of what happened to me these days. It’s mostly been dealt with, and I don’t really feel “permanently damaged.” However, her article isn’t about men controlling the rape narrative. It’s mostly an attack on feminists, and programs and ideas promoted by feminists. Not only is the thesis muddled – Are men responsible? Are feminist women responsible? Both? – but the very diverse school of feminism is reduced to a singular, boogeyman trope. Never once does she even cite an actual individual feminist writer or researcher on rape. It’s just this abstract concept – feminists – tossed around again and again, even though she also points to the fact that men historically shaped these views of women and of rape.

     
    Fourthly, she repeatedly makes the point that rape is an individual experience, and yet also appeals to us to – rightly, and I thank her for this – to address the societal level silence surrounding male rape victims, and particularly male rape victims in prison. In fact, it also seems to me as if she desires to privatize the experience of rape for women – it’s up to each of “us” to come up with our own narratives and solutions – while simultaneously advocating for a much more public response to rape for men. In a matter of paragraphs, she takes shots at rape counseling and trauma responses for women, and then suggests – rightly – that men who are raped often have nowhere to go, and no one to talk to about their experience.

     
    I could go on here, but have decided to post a long version on my blog instead. But my main point is that Charlotte’s essay is filled with contradictions, and the way she’s handled her own experiences are not inspiring, which maybe isn’t her goal, but if she’s advocating that women can fairly quickly move on and live healthy lives, I’m skeptical her take on things is all that healthy.

73. Paula 73

    I think the worst thing to happen to a woman would be getting murdered. At least with rape, you can get over it. I think it depends on the severity of it. I know of one person where they were attacked at home. That would obviously be something difficult to get over but I do think we live in a society where victims are allowed to feel too sorry for themselves. I’ve experience being bullied and being robbed but you get over it.
    Our society would deem you cruel if you were to tell some crime victim, especially women, to ‘get over it’ but I do think we need to empower victims so that they can feel like they can move on with life. This goes along with Caroline Myss’ theory called Woundology. We can never move forward in life if we keep feeling sorry for ourselves and we need to define ourselves not in terms of our pains and wounds but of something bigger and more empowering

74. Fiona 74

    Paula,  I am not sure too many rape victims reading your words will appreciate reading how they are feeling too sorry for themselves or having it compared to you being bullied or mugged. I am also pretty sure reading new age clap trap about how you can be empowered after trauma is totally unhelpful to this situation. In general people respond better to caring and empathy than to being told to get over it.

75. mary 75

    Evan, generally I think you’re good at what you do but when conflicts happen, it’s as though you respond to shut it all down vs letting it be what it is dispassionately. I understand foul language and personal attacks cross that line.
    I’ll be brief because I could go on forever on this.
    1 Premise that 95 percent–Evan said in his comments–of rape survivors view the event as soul destroying, life changing, stigmatizing, the worst thing that can happen…
    Well, all the men and women I know of publically or privately moved on, and went on and have successful lives, but sometimes have  issues with alcohol, anxiety, depression, relationships.
       Sometimes they don’t reveal this private burden, it’s secret. I never share it. I also don’t do therapy about it anymore-when I did, I felt like a victim. 
    Nonetheless, it is soul destroying, the stigma is from others, from society, not the survivors. It’s too complicated to go into, but not only the perpetrator, the courts, cops, reactions of family–it’s all  about shame, loss of faith, breaches of trust, loss of innocence, extinguishing that buoyant sense of self and joy one had before… it’s hard to put in words. It’s not that one can’t be joyous or trust again, someone about how we view the world is changed.
    It doesn’t mean people don’t move past it to live.
    Trivializing it is dangerous.
    Comparing trauma is wrong. Murder, illness, cancer–they are all painful.
    We live in a hyper sexualized world. Molesters, creeps are what the media call pedophiles and rapists.
    Rape is an outrage. But these days anything with sex is considered valid and rape and sex are conflated to many subconsciously. It is not sex. It is violence and sadism. I bet too many have rape fantasies–the ones who say it’s not so bad, get over it.
    It’s a very sick world. I will never trivialize this outrage. As long as survivors need to heal, they should get, without being minimized.
    2 This author is a powerless victim,not even in reality, no matter how passive aggressive she is. She rationalizes. She is dead inside. One has to be, to do the sex trade. She serviced the man who sodomizedher–is she free to say no? Apparently not, to anyone.
    But in general, agreeing to engage in sexuality activity is giving her consent to some degree. Obviously, without protection, she is left open to rape. I don’t wish it on anyone. She will continue getting assaulted and continue rationalizing it until or if she ever leaves the trade.
    She isn’t “eloquent” at all. I’m really surprised you think so Evan.
    I’m not offended you brought up the subject, or even pointed to her article, but her point of view isn’t valid. We shouldn’t view rape as meaningless, or trivialize it, to avoid upsetting others. Be upset. Rape survivors do move on, but as with any trauma, need help, some more than others.

76. K 76

    It’s really sad to see people in this comments section disparage other (non-rape) traumatic situations that others have posted about. What is so hard about admitting that, yes, rape is bad and traumatic, *and other things can be too*.
    You don’t have to be comparing one thing to another and bickering like little children about this is worse than that. It’s like rape has this special status and no one can express another view without being considered a monster.
    I don’t think this author is saying rape is never traumatic, but I think she’s saying sometimes it is not. And I agree with her that it does a disservice to women to automatically assume that there is one way of dealing with it and experiencing it.
    Go read about a topic like war crimes to get an idea of other experiences that can be traumatic. Again, I am not saying we need to compare which is worse and why – sadly there are a wide range of traumas that humans inflict on each other. Rape is not the only one.

77. Paula 77

    Fiona,
    I’m not trivializing what a rape victim grows through but I am of the school of thought that life goes on. I do understand that it is a traumatizing experience but if the victim doesn’t ‘get over it’, they are just hurting themselves in the long run. A victim has to choose to take the high road, even though she/he may not feel like it. They have to choose that in spite of the wrong doing that has been done to them, they need to choose to love themselves and to heal themselves from their pain. This takes time. It becomes their responsibility to heal themselves. This in no way diminishes the wrongfulness of what was done.
    I think all trauma victims should practice meditation such as kundalini yoga meditation. Meditation is scientifically proven to repattern one’s brain and it can help a victim of a trauma to reprogram their mind so they can feel human again and to process the depth of their pain in a productive manner.
    If a victim wants to see themselves as a victim for the rest of their life because of something wrong someone else did to them… well they are just hurting themselves. I’ve seen on tv a holocaust survivor and they walked away from the experience, that no one can take away their dignity and this is how they survived. Like a rape victim, a holocaust survivor did not deserve what happened to them but many of us have bad things happen to us that we don’t deserve but we have to deal with the shit that comes our way. We have to fight in life and not give in to the bad stuff.  Rape victims and all victims of any crime should take that as their mentality. They should be empowered. Part of empowering them does support the grieving process and feeling their pain. This is where the meditation comes into play. 
    Whatever doesn’t kill you just makes you stronger. It might take a while to get to that place but it is possible.

78. Paula 78

    Just wanted to add to Fiona’s comment. I don’t appreciate you trivializing my bullying and robbery experiences. You have no details about the severity of it but instantly placed it as trivial in comparison to rape. I felt deeply violated in both cases and for you to ignorantly trivialize my experiences was unnecessary. I did get over it through my yoga and meditation practice. Every one needs to heal themselves and people can get over things. I’ve had other bad things happen to me in life and I battle with depression as well. I know how to survive and I want everyone to be a fighter in this life. It’s not easy for many people and we have to fight and not feel sorry for ourselves. By my stating that, I am not trivializing any one’s pain but encouraging people to be survivors. Life is not easy and we all need the appropriate inner tool kit to manage the ups and downs of life. Life is not always skittles and sunshine.

79. Kathleen 79

    Paula I agree that the worse thing would to be murdered.  

    Fiona Don’t speak for me! Who are you to talk of new age clap trap? I was able to fight of my attacker and that was empowering.  Are you god and an expert on how all people respond Now thats clap trap if I ever heard it

80. Fiona 80

    Paula, Kathleen, this is all getting very personal. Kathleen you did well to fight off your attacker and I am pleased you were not raped. Some were not so lucky and perhaps do not feel very empowered by it. Paula, I am sorry you feel violated by my thinking bullying is not the same as rape. I went through terrible bullying in high school. I’ve suffered crippling depression.I got over it. I do not think entitles me to say that rape victims should stop feeling sorry themselves or that they can fix it all by reading a book. So let’s just say everyone deals with their pain in their own way. If you want to take the view that people should stop feeling sorry for themselves and they should just deal with it because you have issues too, that is up to you. I don’t take that view so let’s just agree to differ.

81. Cat5 81

    Evan,
    I think the problem with posting this article, is that the woman in the article is in denial about what has happened to her and her reaction to it.
    Would you post an article written by a drug addict or alcohol saying that they drink or do drugs because it is their choice, they like it, and it empowers them to do, and then say it is a different viewpoint and you hadn’t considered it?  I don’t think so.
    The woman who wrote the article is responding in one of the many ways a person reacts when they have raped, and it is very sad because she is trying to tell the world she is fine, when what she needs is help…professional help.  It makes me even more sad that so few people see it.
    Cat5
     

82. Kathleen 82

    Fiona 
    I was sexually assaulted but I wasn’t murdered so it could have been worse. Do I spend the rest of my life cowering in a corner? HELL NO Did I say anywhere other victims should just get over it? NO  

    People deal with all types of trauma with differing severity and some people are more resilient than others.

    The question is is rape the worse thing that can ever happen? Its everyones own unique experience.   
    Some people have different ways to cope If someone has had such a miserable life that they became a sex worker by 22 then perhaps their way of coping is detachment or disassociation Thats still away to cope.  

    You should join Alexis and Ruby! 

83. Fake name 83

    It was the worst thing that ever happened to me. I would not wish that experience on my worst enemy. Death would have been better.

84. justme 84

    Society doesn’t want to talk about rape.  We see it right here in these very comments.  If you experienced rape and talk about it, you are wallowing in it, staying the victim, and not getting over it.  

    I only talk about mine if I feel there is a positive reason to share the experience.  Mostly, I don’t tell anyone though because I don’t want it to define me.

85. Fiona 85

    Kathleen, I am sorry you feel that way. I agree that different people respond to things in different ways. I do not claim to be “god and expert” on how people respond. I do happen to know something about rape unfortunately. As we have seen on this blog there are many people who have been victims of rape reading it, most of whom have found the experience very traumatic. It is not for me to tell them they should be traumatised nor is it for me to tell them that they shouldn’t. Hiwever it has clearly been upsetting for some of them to read comments that some (not you have made) that they feel too sorry for themselves or that everyone goes through bad things. That is why I prefer to empathise with them rather than try to compare it to bad things that have happened to me or how I dealt with it. I agree that the “new age clap trap” comment was out of turn. If it helps people, that’s fine. Unfortunately, for many, it isn’t that easy.

86. K 86

    I know each person is different, and for some women rape will be a traumatic experience that will potentially scar them for life.
    However, for some it’s not, and I agree with the author that society makes women feel that their rape SHOULD “destroy” them.
    I myself was raped. It was, of course, horrible, and I was very shaken up / messed up for about a month.
    I went to see a counselor for a bit, laid low and let myself heal… and then I moved on. I think that really threw people off (those that I’m close to and knew what happened) – they felt that I should be upset for longer, or something.
    But I wasn’t.
    A few years later, and I barely think about it. I mean, I’ll think about it sometimes, but it’s not this huge cloud hanging over me.
    I hate the idea that rape was supposed to be “soul-destroying”. That it was supposed to ruin my life, that I’m supposed to be some weak shell of who I once was. For me, it was a horrible thing that happened, but I am certainly not destroyed. In fact, I feel like a strong person. 
    That’s why it makes me annoyed to see comments like the one from Cat5 #81 above, that “she is trying to tell the world she is fine, when she needs professional help.” How do you know that? How do you know she’s not fine? Do we not have ownership over our own thoughts and feelings? If anyone knows if I’m fine, it’s me.

87. Cat5 87

    @K

    How do I know?  Through a lifetime of personal experience, 10-years of education, and 20-years of professional experience in dealing with individuals and the issues surrounding sexual assault, domestic violence, drug addiction, and alcoholism.

    And one thing I’ve learned is that it’s not as simple as ownership over one’s own thoughts and feelings when dealing with issues of trauma, sexual assault, domestic violence, drug addiction, and alcoholism…not without professional help, for most people anyway.

88. Karmic Equation 88

    I didn’t read the article, but have read most of the comments.

    Perspectives on how a woman deals with rape is cultural, and, yes, probably defined by men. How come I say this? I’m Chinese, and if you’ve ever watched a Chinese movie which includes any scenes that suggest a woman is raped, the raped woman NEVER recovers. In fact, unlike western women who become “survivors” (sometimes scared, sometimes vigilantes), the raped Chinese women in films go stark raving mad. They literally become idiots because of the rape. This was ludicrous to me as a child when I watched these movies — I was too young to understand rape, and could never understand why between one scene and the next the bitchy woman becomes a loony idiot singing children’s songs.

    Anyway, having been a molestation survivor (not raped thankfully), I do believe that our cultures shape our expectation of a raped woman’s behavior. If you were born Chinese and was raped, you’re supposed to go batty. In America, you’re supposed survive but the rape is supposed to affect you the rest of your life.

    I believe that we have control over our thoughts. And since our thoughts guide our actions, it behooves us to always choose the thoughts that help us lead good, productive, un-drama-filled lives. If you think rape will permeate every experience you have afterwards, it will. If you think rape is something that you can move past, you will. If you think rape will traumatize you, it will. If you think rape WILL define you, it will. If you think it WON’T, it won’t. Speaking as a person who moved past her molestation, I believe you can choose your path after rape, too. But choosing isn’t enough. You have to be willing and able to execute on your choice. It takes time, hard work, faith, and mental fortitude.

89. Joe 89

    @ Cat5: you still don’t really know.  You only deal with the people who have problems.  The people who don’t–they’re invisible to you.

90. Cat5 90

    @ Joe

    With all due respect you have no idea who the people I deal with are, nor what my experience with people who have suffered trauma, sexual assault, domestic violence, and/or addiction issues is.  Please note I clearly specificied in my previous post that this is the group I am discussing.  Since I said I was discussing those who need help, it would necessarily not include those who have received help or are coping appropriately.  I’m not sure what group you think I am talking about that don’t have problems.  They would not be invisible to me, they just would not need my assistance.

    Most of the people I deal with, personally and professionally, that have suffered trauma, sexual assault, domestic violence, and/or addiction issues, do not think they need help, and that they are prefectly fine and coping appropriately.  Most of them are also in denial and rationalizing their behavior (as do many of their family and friends).  Denial and rationalizing are coping mechanisms that may help a person survive, but they are unhealthy behaviors.

    I don’t think it is wrong to want people to be healthly emotionally, and thus, engaging in healthy behaviors.  In my personal and professional work, that most often includes recognizing the issues, and doing my very best to help them find appropriate professional assistance.  They can then choose to obtain professional assistance or not.  Sadly, many have friends and family tell them they are fine for a myriad of reasons of their own.  So most do not seek help, and they continue to engage in unhealthy behaviors (coping mechanisms) that result in their incarcaration, hospitalization, and/or death.

91. marymary 91

    Cat5 at 90
    and it may not be as extreme as incarceration etc. A good clue that someone has suffered a trauma they haven’t dealt with is an inability to form loving adult relationships and/or a tendency to get into abusive relationship. Also look out for a very high  tolerance for mistreatrment. It has nothing to do with intelligence. sometimes it’s the smart ones who come up with the best rationalisations. 

     

92. Cat5 92

    @marymary

    I agree that inability to form healthy relationships (whether a person is an adult or juvenile) is a good indicator also.  Most of the people I deal with have this issue also.

    I used the examples of incarcaration, hospitalization and/or death as a result, because most of the people I deal with will end up/have ended in one of those ways if they don’t get help.

    You are also correct that intelligence has nothing to do with it. I hope I didn’t imply in my comments that it did.

93. marymary 93

    Cat5
    we are in agreement.
    i don’t see asking for help as weakness. It takes courage, especially when trust has been violated.
    to clarify -
    the article writer is smart and strong, but maybe she’s used these gifts to acclimatise herself to repeated horrible experiences. I don’t think anyone should have to “get used” (for want of a better term)  to this treatment but sadly it happens. I don’t agree with all that she said but I felt for her.

94. AnnieC 94

    An act that attempts to force a child onto a woman is and always will be treated by women as a most grievous of crimes against women at a fundamental level.

     Sex results in a child, and regardless of the rapists intentions, the act of sex is alway’s one of procreation.  Every male is “having” sex for that reason at a biological level, if not intellectually.

    That child of rape will then require care for 15+ years a huge investment of a womans life. It is the pill, condoms, abortion that have led to this apathy over female rape and a blase attitude toward sex itself.

    The woman who wrote the article, is the one who has been conditioned through her life, to see herself as less, and therefore the act of rape as less.

    The politically correct crowd never cease to amaze in their attempt to be “tolerant” of everything, and forsake pretty much everything.

    The author stands for nothing.  She is not strong because she tolerates that which is horrible. She is weak. Any woman allowed to truly feel , will find rape horrifying. Every, single one. Unless broken.

95. marymary 95

    AnnieC
    when the Austrian girl who had been incarcerated and raped repeatedly by her father, (her father killed the subsequent babies) spoke to the media she faced a lot of criticism because she was stong, acerbic even.
    but i say she had to be, to survive.
    I know what you mean by broken. Rape is used by traffickers to break women down.   They know it works. The women don’t turn to jelly. They toughen up.
     

96. Sara 96

    The one thing that I want to comment on here is this: Evan has said “Rape is down by 70%.” I don’t believe it. I work at a courthouse. I see rape victims DAILY. Yes, Daily. I work with juveniles and neglect/abuse cases. Nearly all of these involved sexual abuse/assault of some kind. I have spoken (in the past) with our county sheriff, and various attorneys, as well as the judge. What I’ve learned is this: 1. CSC offenses are typically pled down, to avoid the costs of a trial and having the victim testify. (In fact, one rather sick joke that we have here at work is “so, what did he get, ‘disorderly person?’” Because we’ve seen it happen.) 2. Because they are pled down, they get a lighter sentence, which means jail time, rather than prison time. Prisons won’t accept people with lighter sentences because they are so crowded. 3. Jails are also crowded, so people get out faster. 
    I personally know of a case where a pediatrician was molesting a young girl, repeatedly. He admitted it, there was evidence, but he pled to attempted. He got 1 year, with 3 years probation, and of course, lifetime registration. He got out of jail in 6 months. Rape just isn’t considered a serious offense. There are places where rape kits are backed up by years. So, no, Rape itself is not down by 70%. But I can completely believe that Rape convictions are.

97. Zann 97

    Rape is an act of violence, and all forms of violence are damaging and all victim’s react, process, heal, or remain traumatized based on too many different factors to begin to name here. I read Charlotte’s article as one woman’s perspective on dealing with being a victim of rape. I found the article interesting and didn’t get the sense that she expected anyone else to follow her path. Is she in denial? Who knows, and what difference does it make? Maybe it was healing for her to write the article, and if it’s helpful to even one reader struggling with this issue, where’s the harm? What I do think is harmful, though, is what seems like one-up-manship in some of the responses, as if there’s a need to establish whose wound is the worst. Where does that get anybody?

    I think the topic of rape is highly relevant to dating because of the alarming statistics regarding date rape and because on-line dating usually involves establishing an online dialogue with a total stranger, who is asking you to take them at their word, with the potential of an in-person meeting.

    As for feminism, there is no one voice for feminism, no one way feminists act. There are feminists in the sex industry and there are feminists who believe the sex industry keeps all women back. It seems hypocritical to me, though, for some responders here to imply that a non-rape victim can’t really speak to the issue of rape (because she/he hasn’t walked in your shoes), but at the same time feel free, as a non-sex worker, to assess a sex worker’s experience and reaction to rape as not valid. Or to peg her as being in obvious denial because her reaction doesn’t match yours. That, in my opinion, is not a feminist response to a woman’s experience. 

98. anonymouse 98

    Um, I recommend reading David Shade’s work, “Select Men Wisely” and “Select Women Wisely.” I would take anything told to me by an “escort” with a grain of sale. Women with high self-esteem do not become escorts. Sorry, but that’s just reality. I believe Mr. Shade held a workshop in Las Vegas or somewhere and as homework assigned the men in the workshop to go to a strip club and ask the ladies who worked there about their relationships with their fathers. The women who waited tables (with clothes on) had healthy relationships with their dads. The strippers did not. Women who have healthy relationships with their fathers have high self-esteem, and they will never take their clothes off for money. Show me a woman who works as a stripper/escort/prostitute and I will show you a woman with daddy issues.

99. Lia 99

    Damn Evan that was seriously gutsy of you to do this post!!!!!!  You didn’t even ask for a blindfold before you let the comments begin.  FIRE!!!! 
     
    I remember watching a show on rape years ago and one of the women interviewed had been raped as a teenager when she was coming home from work one night.  She didn’t seem to have any upset about this incident and when the interviewer asked about this she said that the man had terrorized her one night years ago and she had decided then that that was all he would get, that he wasn’t going to have any more of her life than that one night. 
     
    And that’s all I am going to write because I am now going to duck and cover….

100. Milkshake 100

     To be honest , i think rapist are not the worse people. rape is too overated. 
     there are much things worse off than rape like:
      
     1) facial disfigurement
     2) Losing one’s hair especially for a woman
     #) Loss of financial aid
     4) getting beaten up 
      
     etc. rape is bad but there are worst. i am a woman who has been through  2 rapes and 7 molestation as a teen girl.

101. Sparkling Emerald 101

     Haven’t read all of the comments, but I don’t think anyone can make sweeping generalizations of how a woman  is supposed to react to being raped.  There are way to many variables.  Just like being the victim of theft could mean anything from having someone steal your wallet when you weren’t looking, or being robbed at gunpoint, yes, there are degrees of rape.  How old was the woman when it happened ?  Was she a virgin at the time ?  Date rape or stranger ? Was there a weapon involved ?  Was it a quick single act of rape, or was she kidnapped, taken to a remote location and raped repeatedly over time ?  One rapist, or was it a gang rape ?  Not only are there different degrees of rape, but women have different temperaments, and different tolerances to life events, and their ability to handle stressful events can change over the course of their life, due to what else is going on.  I think obviously a sex worker is going to have a different reaction than say a 12 year old virgin who is raped all afternoon by a trusted relative, then told to never tell anyone, or great harm will come to her or a sibling.  (not passing judgement on her for being a sex worker, just saying that her experience will be different than that of a 12 year old virgin)
     I also think there is a continuum of how people respond to ALL sorts of distressing life events.  Some people get over things faster than others.  Some might have a short but VERY INTENSE grieving period, other people might try to stuff in their feelings, and then have this long, slow, drawn out recovery period.
     I too, don’t buy into the false dichotomy of women either take a victim mentality for life, or they just snap their fingers and get over it. 
      
     I had a very good friend who was raped, she was 17.  She actually was very strong, and seemed to recover very well, with occasioanal bouts of fear.  (the rapists was identified as being someone who lived nearby, but he was never found, and she feared he might come back after her, as she was raped on the grounds of our apt complex, so he had an idea of where she lived) I think one of the main components to how well she seemed to handle it, was that she had a strong support system of family & friends.  And the police officers who handled her case were very kind and compassionate (not the stereotype of the officers making the vicitm feel victimized all over again)
     I don’t think femnists defining nearly every act of sex as rape helps, I don’t think politicians blowing off rape helps, and I don’t think this article telling women that there’s a one size fits all way to react to a rape (especially since there is such a wide variety of rape scenarios) helps either.
     Thankfully, this has never happened to me, so weather or not I would react in the proper way that the author seems to think I should is a moot point.

102. Karl R 102

     Sparkling Emerald said: (#101)
     “I don’t think this article telling women that there’s a one size fits all way to react to a rape (especially since there is such a wide variety of rape scenarios) helps either.”
      
     I believe the article was telling women the exact opposite.
      
     Charlotte Shane said: (article)
     “It is only one of many possible responses, all of which are equally valid because rape is an individual’s experience, not a collective one, in spite of what current ‘rape culture’ rhetoric often assumes.”
      
     It sounds to me like she’s making the exact same point that you are.
      
     Based on my own conversations with victims of rape, plus my own experiences with non-sexual violence, I agree with both of you on this point.

103. Sparkling Emerald 103

     Karl R
     OK, so I read the whole article now, and she seems to be all over the page.  I agree that depending on the rape and the woman’s ability to tolerate stressful events in her life at the time of the rape be part and parcel of how she recovers.  And that there is a continuum to how a woman will handle it.  There will be a very slim minority who can blow off an anal rape that leaves her injured to the point of needing surgery, but i would say that the vast majority of rape vicitms are well above the devil may care attitude.  Maybe not at the very top of the continuum (something that leaves them scarred for life) but somewhere in the very traumatized category, that leaves them in a state of anger, grief and shock for a VERY LONG TIME, until eventually, while never completely getting over the crime, learn to live with the pain and get on with their life.  No one should tell a woman how she “should” feel about it.  Weather it is to say that she should blow it off and get over it, or that she should be paralyzed with grief and fear the rest of her life.  However, I think the author is defining the “media narrative” in it’s entirety as being the small sliver of feminists who consider any sex a woman feels bad about as “rape”.  I don’t agree with that small (but noisy) group of “feminists” nor do I think they represent the entire media narrative (or even the entire collection of womens’ right advocacy groups)  The media and societal narrative about rape is all over the place, from the noisy so called femnists I described, to politicans who say rape victims should carry their babies that may result to term as part of God’s will.  (Real nice, God sends men out to rape women so a new life can begin, because y’know, there’s just a shortage of babies in the world, that women have to be raped into having them) Then there is the so called “progressive” Hollywood types who protect their own by defending a middle age curmundgeon who oral sexes a 14 year old girl, as someone who at least didnt’ “rape rape” her.  What the HELL was she (Whoopie Goldberg) blathering on about ??????? And there are those who blame the woman for being raped, those who say she should just relax and enjoy it, etc.
     I agree with the author that there is a wide continuum of how women response to rape, I disagree with her assessment that the entire culture is steeped in the “rape culture” she speaks of.

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