Jun11

Is There Something Wrong With a Man in His 40s Who Has Never Been Married Before?

05:00 am on Jun 11th 2009 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

89 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice

89 Responses to “Is There Something Wrong With a Man in His 40s Who Has Never Been Married Before?”

1. dating Jun 11th 2009 at 05:28 am 1

   Great article man keep on posting such great articles .wishes for your fyture.

2. Karl R Jun 11th 2009 at 05:49 am 2

   Evan said: (original response)
   “It does, however, mean that he didn’t become a forty-something bachelor by making great decisions in love.”

   In six months I’ll turn 40, and I’ve never been married. Self-confidence and marketability play a large role.

   Just over 3 years ago I was working two part-time temp jobs and earning less than $25,000 a year. Today I’m working a full-time salaried position and earning more than double that.

   Three years ago I was too skinny for many women (5′11″, 140-145 lbs). Since then I started excercising regularly and gained 15 lbs of muscle mass.

   Just over three years ago a long dry spell in my dating life ended when two women asked me out on the same day. Both were members of my church which I’d started attending 6 months earlier.

   Combined these things did amazing things for my self-confidence, particularly when dating.

   Three years ago my dating pool was small and rather static. Since then, I joined a yoga studio and started taking dance classes again. Now my dating pool is large and has a steady flow of new faces.

   During that time I also started reading dating advice, so now I have a better understanding of what I’m doing. And I’ve been dating constantly that entire time, so I have acquired more practical experience than I did during the previous 20 years.

   In some ways my life has changed as much as Sandra’s did when she lost 60 lbs.
   http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/i-lost-a-lot-of-weight-but-resent-all-the-men-who-now-find-me-attractive/
   She’s entering the dating world as an inexperienced 23 year old. I felt almost as inexperienced when I resumed dating at the age of 36.

   I would agree that there’s a reason someone is 40 and still single. But it’s not necessarily a red flag.

3. starthrower68 Jun 11th 2009 at 05:59 am 3

   It’s unfair to make a judgement call on this guy based on superficial characteristics, but Evan echoed my sentiments. Really, you’re not going to know until you’ve met and spent some time with this guy. Yes, the risk is there that you will be rejected, hurt, etc. Your part is to treat him as kindly as possible and if he bails it’s his issue not yours. And even if he is/was a player, look at Warren Beatty. All it took to turn him into the picture of domesticity was Annette Benning. There’s hope for everyone.

4. Steve Jun 11th 2009 at 06:18 am 4

   Kate;

   People look for dating “rules” to reduce their risk of being hurt.

   Dating rules don’t apply 100% of the time.

   Still, dating rules can be useful if you have an idea of how much the dating rules apply. If 7 out of 10 people over 40 who were never married are “relationship defective” that is useful information. You can decide whether or not it is worth missing out on one of those 3 gems to completely avoid hooking up with one of those 7 losers.

   The problem with dating rules is that there are no real statistics. The rules were made by dating experts based on their subjective and anecdotal experience. In other words, dating rules aren’t known. No degreed experts. No rigorous studies. No research.

   However, real research with real statistics has been done on divorce rates. It is known that over 50% of marriages in the US fail. It is also known that people who get remarried do not have lower divorce rates.

   In other words there is real evidence with real research and real statistics that divorced people are “relationship defective”.

   Can you imagine anyone, dating expert or not, advising people not to date divorcees in their 40s? I can’t. Those are most of the single people in that age range.

   Instead, dating experts will advise people to date that demographic, but be alert for warning signs. “What caused the divorce?” “If part of the cause was your date, has your date changed since his/her marriage?”. Etc.

   You need to come up with warning signs to look for in the man you are interested in.

   Is he a player? I don’t know anything about players other than that they want sex and nothing else. Common sense would dictate that with attractive women living all over the country that a competent player will not bother with a long distance possibility and that he will not invest a lot of time in a particular woman. Why should he? If he is only looking for a hookup he can get that at home and with less time than he has invested in you so far.

   I’m cynical about the prospects for long distance relationships so I would advise you on *that* factor alone to move on.

   When I date divorced women sooner or later I try to find out why they are divorced. Try to find out why your 42 year old never got married.

   Did he have a live-in “GF” for years and years? Was/is he a workaholic who had no time for his spouse ( this is ALSO the case with a number of divorcees, your dating alternative, who haven’t learned their lesson )? Does he have emotional baggage that prevented a marriage? Is he over that baggage? Sometimes people do get over things and become better people over time. FWIW, often divorced people, your dating alternative in that age range, also have emotional baggage. If not from their lives, then from their divorce.

   In the end, you just have to take a risk.

   Evan has a wonderful rule.

   Look at how s/he treats you, not at what s/he says and not what you want to be true.

   If the person is local, has been giving you everything you want in a relationship and has been doing that for a sustained period of time then s/he is worthy of your risk.

   If not, move on.

5. Selena Jun 11th 2009 at 06:45 am 5

   Another possibility: Maybe he didn’t believe in getting married just for sake of fulfilling a societal norm. Unlike say, his 42 yr. old counterparts who did. And subsequently found themselves divorced. Perhaps more than once.

   Maybe he didn’t want to take a vow to be with someone the rest of his life if he was unsure in his heart that he could keep that vow. Unlike his counterparts who took such a vow, believing they could always get a divorce if the marriage became untenable for whatever reason.

   Perhaps, just perhaps…he might be a more sincere and loyal partner than someone who married “to go along” with his partner’s wishes, or some other spurious reason. One thing we know, a marriage license is no guarantee someone won’t cheat.

   Seems to me, the only way to determine if a 40-something, never-married, person would make a good partner would be to get to know him/her IN PERSON. Then decide.

6. Jennifer Jun 11th 2009 at 06:56 am 6

   I think you hit the nail on the head with the main concerns Evan. If a man that wishes to be married has not yet achieved that ‘goal’ by 42, it’s wise to find out if he knows why. The real question that comes in is whether or not you should automatically hold a person’s inability to reach their ‘goal’ against them. In this case I’d say you shouldn’t.

   I would, however, be interested in finding out if he knows the reasons why he hasn’t done what he wanted to do and if he is doing anything differently now to correct it. For example, if he claims to just not have met the right girl yet, is he doing things to meet more people that may be a match for him, etc. Understanding a situation and taking steps to correct it are key.

   My main advice to the letter writer would be to meet this guy as soon as possible. Don’t focus on reasons it may not work, etc. Meet and see if you even have the potential for a relationship in the first place.

7. Ava Jun 11th 2009 at 08:42 am 7

   My take is that the farther the distance, the more difficult. A 5 hour drive or train ride isn’t as difficult as as a 5-hour plane trip that requires a certain amount of planning. Personally, I don’t think the distance between Chicago and Minneapolis is insurmountable.

   That said, you’ve been talking long enough that it’s time to make plans to meet in person. It’s also worth discussing early on whether or not either of you would be willing or able to move if it came to that. Many people with kids, or even certain types of jobs, don’t have that mobility. I also doubt that a guy who is having lengthy phone conversations with you over a period of weeks is a player. Players generally don’t want to put that kind of time in a relationship over such a distance. You don’t want to let expectations build up to such a degree that when you do meet, if it doesn’t work out one or both of you is terribly hurt and disappointed.

   There is one thing I’d like to make crystal clear: many marriages are a sign of how CONVENTIONAL the couple is, not how committed. They marry because it’s what’s expected of them or because they think it’s “time.” If they were really so committed, would the divorce rate be as high as it is? That’s not to say that some unmarried older men simply don’t want to get married. If you’ve had such lengthy phone conversations, has the subject of relationships ever come up? Has he ever lived with anyone? Been in a long-term relationship? Don’t interrogate the guy, but don’t be afraid to ask tough questions because you’re afraid of what the answer might be.

   That’s the problem with many dating rules, they don’t take into account that every person is different, and has had a different experience. Rules are great as guidelines, but let your own experience, knowledge, and gut feeling, be your guide.

8. angela Jun 11th 2009 at 08:44 am 8

   Steve,
   GREAT post. I concur!!!

9. Selena Jun 11th 2009 at 09:07 am 9

   @Ava #7

   “There is one thing I’d like to make crystal clear: many marriages are a sign of how CONVENTIONAL the couple is, not how committed. They marry because it’s what’s expected of them or because they think it’s “time.” If they were really so committed, would the divorce rate be as high as it is?”

   Clap! Clap! Clap!

10. Diana Jun 11th 2009 at 09:12 am 10

    Being 42 and single, and having never married is not a red flag; at least not for me. Potential red flags come up after I know their history, as there can be reasonable and understandable explanations for their current status. I do not believe he is a player either, based on your experiences thus far. I think the biggest issue is the LTR situation.

    I hear from loads of men who live in different states from me, yet I will not engage them in anything long distance. I know what my boundaries are and I know that I will not and cannot relocate for someone at this time in my life nor date with any regularity, if he’s a thousand miles away or even a hundred which can also be difficult. And honestly, I am always a little perplexed by the guys who continue to state that distance is not a problem for them, unless they are a traveler likely looking for an out-of-town fling. They could even be married.

    But this is not about me. If you feel that strong of a chemistry and connection with him, then try to meet as quickly as you can vs. continuing to put the cart before the horse. While the odds are not great for successful, long-lasting LTRs, they CAN work, so all the best to you.

11. Michael Jun 11th 2009 at 09:24 am 11

    Can you imagine anyone, dating expert or not, advising people not to date divorcees in their 40s?
    I do.

    I advice people who have never been married to stay away from divorcees. In fact, some Jew said a really long time ago that it is adultery to marry a divorced person, or for a divorced person to remarry.

    I would rather marry someone who is 21 and had never been married, even though I would not have much in common with her, than I would marry a divorcee of any age.
    Maybe he didn’t want to take a vow to be with someone the rest of his life if he was unsure in his heart that he could keep that vow. Unlike his counterparts who took such a vow, believing they could always get a divorce if the marriage became untenable for whatever reason.

    Perhaps, just perhaps…he might be a more sincere and loyal partner than someone who married “to go along” with his partner’s wishes, or some other spurious reason. One thing we know, a marriage license is no guarantee someone won’t cheat.

    Seems to me, the only way to determine if a 40-something, never-married, person would make a good partner would be to get to know him/her IN PERSON. Then decide.
    Great advice.

12. searchingwithin Jun 11th 2009 at 10:01 am 12

    I think if a 42 year old man I was interesting in told me he had never been married, I would be listening with a raised brow. I wouldn’t write him off completely, but…

    One thing I have learned the hard way is to really, really listen to what he tells you, no matter how significant it may seem, including jokes, stories of other people, you name it, because there are clues there, big ones. If you let someone talk long enough, they will tell you everything you need to know.

    searchingwithin´s last blog post…How Will We Love?

13. Leah Jun 11th 2009 at 10:32 am 13

    In these long talks why not ask him about his past relationships?

14. Ava Jun 11th 2009 at 10:42 am 14

    Can’t we perhaps flip this and say that Kate is actually expanding her options and her chance to find love by considering someone who is outside her local area?

    Also, some divorced men I’ve met have had crippling baggage. They may even want to re-marry, but that doesn’t necessarily make them great prospects. The divorce rate for second marriages is even higher, something like 70%, I believe.

15. WithLove Jun 11th 2009 at 10:49 am 15

    Well, this is a topic I can relate to. First of all…Steve, guy you definitely spoke words of wisdom and truth,standing O. Searchingwithin, you also shed some great light on this as well. Michael? are you refering to Jesus? the “jew”? If you are a believer maybe you should refer to Him with His name. Some people may or may not believe as you or I do. With respect….
    What I do know is that I too, actually tried not to get involved with people that had never been married only from the standpoint that the experience of actually making that commitment hadn’t been made in the past. When we marry things do change…some for the better some for the worse. We learn, I know I have, alot about being married. So, with that being said listening to the above comments and Evan…my viewpoint has changed. Just like I wouldn’t want anyone saying they wouldn’t want to get involved with me because I have been divorced twice. No one knows the actual events that led up to both of my divorces. Domestic violence and well a red flag “I should” have paid attention to in the beginning of the last relationship. There you have it….you NEVER know what the circumstances are. I don’t want anyone ever assuming things about me, so…why should I assume about them. Like Searchingwithin said, after many conversations….you will eventually find out what you need to know, but you have to PAY ATTENTION. Don’t start out or leave the rose colored glasses on….take them off and see, hear, and feel what is REAL. Lots of stories out there…many different stories with nothing cookie cutter about them. Investigage everything! My thought process was there for my own protection….fear of being hurt. Trying to find the safest best bet I can. Can I really? No. No pain, no gain as the bodybuilders like to say…feel the fear and do it anyway….what doesn’t kill you only makes you
    stronger…and on and on……that is how we learn and grow….so here I go, learning and growing! Hang in there Kate, just be aware of the red flags….pay attention to them, they are REAL!

16. Jennifer Jun 11th 2009 at 11:32 am 16

    I agree with the sentiments that other’s have expressed about keeping your eyes open to red flags in general and would like to take it a step further- in all of my relationships/dating adventures, there were signs as soon as three months in, even more quickly in most cases, of potential problems or red flags. Sometimes it was just a gut feeling, but it was a warning nonetheless. I chose to ignore them and that’s where the problem comes in. It’s not that liars and bad people are so adept at hiding who they really are- i propose it’s that we refuse to listen/pay attention/take appropriate action most of the time.

    I think we can all save ourselves so much time, heartache and trouble if we learn to heed these flags instead of talking ourselves out of them or hoping/waiting for things to change. If we trusted and believed in our ability to know pretty early on whether someone was shady or not, we’d be less worried about trusting people in general, which would only help our future relationships as well.

    If we start picking up on these warning signs early on and taking appropriate action (usually leaving), we’d decrease our chances of being 42 and never married (if married is what we want to be) or 42 with multiple divorces and/or deep scars and emotional baggage under our belts.

    And for those that are already in that boat, learning from past experiences and *behaving differently in the future* is the most important thing. It’s never too late.

17. Selena Jun 11th 2009 at 12:17 pm 17

    I have to wonder also, if they talk often, for as long as 5 hours at a time wouldn’t some information regarding previous relationships naturally have come out? I know some people are more private than others, but still…when you get to talking about the things you’ve done, the places you’ve lived, details of your life are revealed even without direct questions.

18. VR Jun 11th 2009 at 12:23 pm 18

    Great post as usual Evan.

    Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit… not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho.

    This time last year I ended it with a 43 year old never married man, found out he was a passive-aggressive player, by listening to what he said about the women in his past.

    The only woman that he lived with (for three “crazy” years), she was the one who proposed to him and he was reluctant to marry and never did.

    What all his failed relationships had in common was HIM.

    Lesson learned. Now dating a man who has been previously married and had several long-term relationships…

19. Barrett Jun 11th 2009 at 03:25 pm 19

    Breaking it down as you did was great. As to the question she asked though I don’t think it’s a red flag on it’s own that he is unmarried and 42. It’s possible he had been quite busy with work when he was younger or had family commitments keeping him from the dating scene. He is talking for 5 hours at a time which is positive but you should honestly look out for yourself. It’s possible that this could work out but as Evan already pointed out the odds are against it.

20. Diana Jun 11th 2009 at 03:28 pm 20

    To searchingwithin #12: That is a very good point about listening. I have noticed that being a truly good listener takes skill, patience and tolerance. I try my best to not interrupt people or focus on what I am going to say next rather than focusing my direct attention to what they’re sharing. Most of us just want to be heard.

    I remember reading an article a few years ago about men and women in their 40’s and 50’s who had never married finding love through a dating site I believe. Most of them had been highly focused on their career. And I personally know some great men in their late 30’s, early 40s who have also not married due to their careers. I think a red flag for me would be when they have had no long-term relationship experience. Being single and independent for so long can make you pretty self-serving and set in your ways.

    Another consideration is what the writer is looking for. Is she hoping for marriage someday, etc.? It may turn out that he’s just fine, but doesn’t believe in the institution of marriage, and if that’s what she wants most, they won’t be a good match any way.

    WithLove #15 is right, too, about making assumptions. One never knows why someone divorced or did anything in their life until they know their story. It is very possible to exit a divorce as a much more knowledgeable, evolved, and finely-tuned human being. Adversity only makes you stronger and wiser.

21. JM Jun 11th 2009 at 03:37 pm 21

    I beg to differ from many of the comments posted here. I think the real issue is not the fact that the guy is in his 40s and never married. The real issue is the “false sense of intimacy” which might be building based on lengthy long distance phone calls. While he might be a great conversationalist, and you’re both finding out about each other, one meeting in person might wipe all of that out when the phone chemistry does not translate in real time. I would recommend to make a plan to meet sooner, rather than later.

    I continue to be baffled by the judgmental attitudes of so many people who think there is something inherently wrong with people in their 40s who are still single. I’m a 48 y.o. single female, who wasn’t ready in her 20s to settle down, was focusing on my career in my 30s and moved to NYC at the age of 38 where everyone is single! I met a guy today who is 60 and has been married (and divorced) twice. My sister got married at 21, and after 23 years of marriage, is divorced (and now remarried). I can’t tell you how many of my friends in their 40s are either divorced or unhappily married or worse yet, having affairs, yet, there is still a huge stigma placed upon people who choose to marry later in life, and who are still single in their 40s. I think we all have a tendency to make sweeping generalizations and I’m trying to treat each new person I meet with a clean slate before I jump to conclusions based on stereotypes. And like Jennifer mentions above, we should all pay attention to red flags early on, whether the guy/woman is single and in his/her 30s or 40s, or divorced in his/her 50s/60s!

22. Diana Jun 11th 2009 at 04:43 pm 22

    Actually, you can pretty self-serving and set in your ways and NOT be single and independent. So I stand corrected [by me ]!

    Great post, JM.

23. starthrower68 Jun 11th 2009 at 04:56 pm 23

    I just received “wink” on a site I’m using (yes, had an attitude adjustment) from a 51-year-old guy who’d never been married; that wasn’t what bothered me. What bothered me was that in paragraph one of his profile, he says he wants a no-strings attached relationship (more power to him if he wants that) then contradicts himself in the 2nd paragraph by saying he wants a marriage and children. I very clearly state that while I’m in no rush to walk down the aisle, I’m not looking for a dead-end fling. I also clearly state I don’t want to have any new babies (I could but I’m 41 and I’ve got 3 already).

    Of course I don’t think he was actually interested. He probably just like the profile and it was a tip o’ the hat, which is fine too.

24. Steve Jun 11th 2009 at 04:59 pm 24

    @JM post #21

    People are quick to judge older single never-married people in a negative light because that group of people is far less common than older divorced people.

    People aren’t going to judge themselves, their family members, their friends and their acquaintances as “relationship defective”, despite the hard numbers providing evidence to that end. They know themselves, they know their family members and they know their friends. Knowing them, they know that even hard numbers for a general demographic do not dictate a destiny for particular individuals.

    The people passing dismissive judgments on single never-married people may not know many of these types of people or have only met a few bad examples. Like the people who you can instantly tell why they are divorced. Since those people are not often in their lives they aren’t forced to reevaluate their thinking about them.

    Life is busy. Nobody has time to inventory, then analyze all of their beliefs. We do it as we have to. They simply haven’t had to. I don’t think that makes them less bright or more judgmental. Just more disappointing to come across.

25. casualencounters.com/blog Jun 11th 2009 at 06:23 pm 25

    Getting married is for Fail.

    casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…Bondage.com review

26. JM Jun 11th 2009 at 06:39 pm 26

    Thank you Diana

    Steve, I appreciated your perspective and spin on this topic, or shall I say, my post?

27. Cilla Jun 11th 2009 at 07:33 pm 27

    @ Steve

    I’m only judging from my personal experience dating never-married men over 40 (incredibly picky, right down to how the TP should should hang) and being friends with a number of women over 40 who have never married (also incredibly picky and set in their ways). I also know a number of physicians through work who are over 40 and never married–in this case, it seems to be their training and work environment that make them self-centered and socially awkward.

    I’ve never let what society thinks deter me from dating someone I thought was wonderful, but I’ve had enough bad experiences with over 40 singles that it’s my own personal yellow light (maybe not quite a red flag, but bears inspection). I’m sure there are exceptions, yourself included.

28. Steve Jun 12th 2009 at 05:21 am 28

    @Cilla post #27

    Lets take a look at some common negative thoughts about single people over 40 who never got married:

    1. They aren’t interested in settling down.
    2. They can’t be trusted for fidelity.
    3. They don’t know how to be in a relationship.
    4. They have a huge amount of emotional baggage
    5. They are self centered

    Who are the men it is possible for you to date? Single never married men or single divorced men. There are no other possibilities.

    If you haven’t, go to the top of this thread and read my first comment. There is real research done by real degreed experts with real statistics that show that divorced people are “defective” for relationships.

    Common reasons for divorces are #2, #3 & #5 making them similar to those “defective” single never married people. Divorcees also frequently have issue #4 as a result of their divorce. Think of all of the people (bitterly) talking about their ex’s. 4 out of 5 of the defects that never-marrieds over 40 have. Scratch anyone who is divorced from your list of potential dates.

    What about single never married people who are exactly 39 years old? Red flags? Why not? They are only one year away from being 40? Does “39″ and never married feel better than “40″? Why? Okay “39″ is cool. What about “38″? Still too old? What about 37? At what point do the datable never-marrieds in their 30s spoil? What happens at what age and why?

    What about single never married people in their 20’s? The generalizations for that demographic also match up with single never people in their 40s. Issue #1 is a very common generalization about that group. Fidelity? I have friends in their 20s & 30s tell me that cheating is more common than not. Add defect #2 to the list. Issues #3 & #5 are expected for people that young. They just aren’t grown up. Emotional baggage? Well the 20 somethings are the product of those broken homes those defective divorced people generated( most of whom got divorced in their 30s ). So, as a group, 20 somethings have all 5 defects of single people in their 40s who were never married. So add them to divorced people as people you should never date.

    I’ve heard issues 1 – 5 complained about, a lot, for divorced people as well as single never married people in their 20s, 30s and 40s.

    Cillia, if you judge a man by the general demographic he belongs to you don’t have any men left to date or hope to find for a relationship.

    I have lousy writing skills as all of the regulars know. However

    - I’m interesting to talk to and a good coversationalist.
    - I’m good looking.
    - I care about my appearance
    - I have no substance abuse issues
    - I have a great sense of humor
    - I’ve never cheated on anyone
    - I have no debt whatsoever
    - I’m not a narcissist.
    - I’ve never let myself be used for somebody else to cheat
    - I fight fair and in a non-toxic way
    - I ask people about THEIR opinions and THEIR lives.
    - I have a steady job in a good career
    - I love talking just for the hell of it, even about relationships
    - I keep my appointments, I’m on time and I keep my word
    - I’m great for getting things off of high shelves
    - Unlike many men, I love (as a group) women
    - I change light bulbs
    - I take out the trash

    I’m also over 40. It is a bad cliche, but I don’t look it. I’ve never been married. If you came across me on match.com you would pass me up

    If you met me the old fashioned way at a bar or a party you would stop returning my phone calls once my ugly secret came out.

    I’d be having all of those balloon rides, dinners in rustic restaurants, bike rides, hikes, movies, watching videos while sick with someone else.

29. Joe Jun 12th 2009 at 06:24 am 29

    Cilla, doesn’t everyone have a way they think TP should hang?

30. Selena Jun 12th 2009 at 09:08 am 30

    Re:#28
    Steve…YOU ROCK!

    And yes, there is only one way to hang the toliet paper – clearly the end goes on the outside. Sheesh. (Smile)

31. Selena Jun 12th 2009 at 09:14 am 31

    “At what point do the datable never-marrieds in their 30s spoil?”

    ROFLMAO!

32. Cilla Jun 12th 2009 at 09:31 am 32

    @ Joe

    Yes, it should only hang from the back. LOL

    @ Steve

    As I said before, I’m only judging from my personal experience. This is what people do, right or wrong, when making any kind of choice, whether it’s buying fruit, looking for a new employer, or replacing a lawn mower. I also said it’s a yellow light to me, something that gives me pause, not an absolute deal breaker.

    I feel the same hesitation about someone is divorced or widowed but has lived alone for decades or someone who has been married two or more times–he may be a little too set in his ways or too picky to make MY life easier or more fulfilling. The men I dated who fell in these categories WERE difficult, demanding, self-absorbed, and unsupportive. Judging prospective dates who fall in these categories is no different than saying I prefer to stay away from men who are religious conservatives, who don’t like pets, or who hate to read–we are just not likely to get along.

    Everyone who participates in online dating (and really, dating in general) judges people by SOME demographic they belong to, whether that’s geography, marital status, age, educational background, or income. If those distinctions didn’t work for the general population, the sites would have abandoned them long ago. It’s my right to use those standards as I see fit to find a mate who works for ME.

    BTW, I’m currently in a relationship with a man who is also divorced. We are both divorced because our spouses cheated on us. Does that make US the “defective” ones? I don’t think so.

33. Diana Jun 12th 2009 at 09:47 am 33

    Oh dear … I surely do hope that just because I am divorced that does not make me defective for a relationship. I am doomed. Just as for the older singles who have never married, you cannot paint everyone with such a broad stroke. Everyone is human and makes mistakes. The wonderful thing about mistakes is the fantastic opportunity they create for personal growth and wisdom.

    You really do have to know a person before you can determine if they’re defective for anything in life. For some reason, the term “defective” makes me cringe.

34. WithLove Jun 12th 2009 at 10:03 am 34

    Steve, you sound like a great guy! So what website are you on???? hee hee…..
    You make some excellent points, and by the way you are a pretty good writer.
    I admittedly was a person afraid to date the “never been married at almost any age” people. I don’t want anyone to assume why, how, who, when about me. I chose to just get to know the people that peak my interest. I think us divorced folk, as hard as it is, need to revaluate ourselves and our own responsiblity in our broken relationships. I have done alot of soul searching for myself and made some incredible progress. I have learned in the last year alot about my hand in my last relationship and now have so much more to offer someone else. I dont’ want to be holding onto baggage…I want to go through it and get rid of what is bad
    and take the good polish it up to be better for that next person in my life. Isn’t that what we all should be doing? Learning to be better? No one wants to take responsibility for themselves and their faults and actions. We just have to remember though that not all divorces are alike or circumstances especially things beyond peoples control. I just think that people whether divorced or never married need to learn from EVERY experience and use that to improve themselves. Got away from Kates’ problem, sorry
    Kate. I say meet the guy and see what is there. Long distance relationships mean in time someone is gonna make a demographic move. Will it be you….or him? Things like this
    you should consider….ponder those….what do you want? You mentioned this guy might be a player with no intention to get serious. Have you talked about that during one of your 5 hour conversations? What is he telling you and how does it feel when he tells you? Does it sound like a line? Are you familiar with what and how a player…..plays? You are right that you might meet and not have “chemistry”. I know its happened to me….so tests of all tests…meet and see…
    Take things in levels, it passes the first then graduate to the next until seems absolutely necessary for you to end things. Wishing you the best……

35. Michael Jun 12th 2009 at 10:08 am 35

    One reason people might not marry by the age of 40 is that they have not found a suitable person who wants to marry them.

    It is difficult for me to meet women my own age who have never been married and never had children.

36. Maya Jun 12th 2009 at 10:18 am 36

    It would never occur to me to think that there is something wrong with someone who is over 40 (or 30, or 100, etc) and never married. If someone was over 40 and never had any type of relationship ever, that would make me stop and think a bit. But marriage? I don’t care.

37. Diana Jun 12th 2009 at 11:27 am 37

    Steve, you forgot to mention that you kill bugs, too. Just teasing.

38. Curly Girl Jun 12th 2009 at 11:29 am 38

    I very much believe that staying single is a very healthy relationship option. As do many sociologists/ psychologists/ researchers, even though this idea is against mainstream “marriagemania,” as Dr. Bella DePaulo writes in her blog on the Psychology Today site: blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/living-single.

    Her book, “Living Single,” talks about the wrong-headed research that supports the “married is the only healthy way to be” belief. The book also points out the many ways that single people are discriminated against and discredits the stereotypes, many of which have been expressed on this board. She’s not anti-marriage, I have to point out–she’s just saying that you aren’t weird if you choose not to marry, just as you aren’t “healthy” because you choose to.

    Also, another interesting article in the May issue of “Self” magazine about a woman who is in her early 40s and not married and how during her 20s/30s she internalized all the negative messages about being “still” single–which in most corners is synonymous with “defective” (or why would EMK ask the question in the title of this blog entry?) She spent a lot of time and money trying to figure out what was “wrong” with her, even as she saw so many people who clearly had things wrong with them getting married and receiving the societal stamp of approval. Finally, she just gave it up and concluded that she just hadn’t met the right guy, and that was the only reason she was unattached. She did, after 8 years or so without a significant other, meet someone and embark on committed relationship.

    I did suggest to EMK that it’s possible to be single and happy and healthy and dating and NOT looking to get married or in an LTR and what about that; he wasn’t so receptive, but then there were some blogs along those lines (why are so many successful people single, why NOT to settle, etc.). So I was happy he opened it up.

39. Kristyn Jun 12th 2009 at 12:30 pm 39

    I’m so much more interested in the why’s than the whats. Why is someone divorced? Why has someone stayed single. Its not that they are – its why they are. I’m divorced, I don’t consider myself “defective” at relationships – I was married for 18 years and am divorced due to things beyond my control. I would hope that someone would (if they were interested) get to know me, see who I really am, listen to what I say, and watch what I do rather than dismiss simply because I’m divorced. Therefore, I do the same for others. We are all so individually unique that it seems even if we have the same story how it shapes who we are can be completely different for each individual.
    @ Steve -
    I’m glad you pointed out that your list could go either for divorcees or never marrieds. Again — its all according to the individual; some cheat, some don’t; some have poor relationship skills, some don’t. Except maybe the baggage – i think thats universal.

40. Karl R Jun 12th 2009 at 03:18 pm 40

    VR said: (#18)
    “Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit… not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho.”

    I can’t imagine discriminating against someone solely due to their previous marital status.

    However, I can’t see why being still single is a red flag, and being divorced is not.

    Earlier this week I was looking at divorce statistics provided by the CDC. For women who got married the first time at the age of 25+, there was a 24% chance that the marriage would fail by the 10 year mark. For women who got married the second time at the age of 25+, there was a 34% chance that the marriage would fail by the 10 year mark. That’s a 40% higher failure rate on second marriages. (Extrapolating, that’s a 60% to 70% chance that the marriage would fail over the long run.)

    And this afternoon I found book online discussing divorce and infidelity (“Marital and sexual lifestyles in the United States” by Linda P. Rouse).

    59% of divorced women have had an extra-marital affair (compared to 25% of married women).

    Just looking at the statistics, there’s about a 60% chance that you have a history of marital infidelity, and there’s about a 60% chance that your next marriage will end in divorce. Why are the single people considered to be the “defective” ones?

    And if you’d like potential dates to avoid judging you for being a divorcee, why don’t you extend the same courtesy to single people?

41. Michael Jun 12th 2009 at 05:07 pm 41

    Finally, she just gave it up and concluded that she just hadn’t met the right guy, and that was the only reason she was unattached. She did, after 8 years or so without a significant other, meet someone and embark on committed relationship.
    This could be a possibility.

    For example, I know of zero qualified, available women my age (31) who have never been married and never had kids. And I have absolutely no clue as to how to find them. The woman in the above example probably had a similar problem.

42. Londongirl Jun 12th 2009 at 09:48 pm 42

    Wow, this is interesting. Imagine flipping it round to ‘Is there something wrong with a woman in her 40s who has never been married before?’….
    Going back to Kate’s question – my gut reaction is, this guy lives in another town, he’s been calling you for six weeks and you still haven’t arranged to meet (but you’re spending money on ‘five-hour’ calls). Hmm, I don’t think he’s talking about the weather, do you? More to the point, he could already be married, for all you know. Don’t you feel like saying ‘either pee or get off the pot’ (in a polite way of course). It’s time you met up, or moved on…

43. Steve Jun 13th 2009 at 03:12 am 43

    @Londongirl post #42

    I agree. Additionally, you don’t know a person from emails and telephone conversations. You only know them from spending time with them. I know that sounds judgmental, but I think anyone who has done it both ways will agree. The big danger with the former route is that people’s (I’ve done it ) imaginations unconsciously fill in the blanks with good things. You meet the person you’ve had a virtual relationship with only to discover that they are someone else and to be disappointed.

    I don’t like meeting someone after just 3 emails, but as soon as it feels like I will not be on a date with a total stranger I like to meet ASAP.

44. Steve Jun 13th 2009 at 03:13 am 44

    @Karl

    You copied off of my paper! Its okay though, your research and statistics are better than mine

45. Jennifer Jun 13th 2009 at 03:04 pm 45

    @Michael #41- Well if you count a blog message board, now you know one. You honestly don’t know *any*? Are you in a very sparsely populated town?

46. Curly Girl Jun 13th 2009 at 07:49 pm 46

    I’ve never been married but have been in a couple of long relationships–one three years, one six to seven. We discussed getting married in both of those relationships but we knew it wasn’t going to work, in both cases because of incompatible long-term goals.

    And I never want to go through a divorce, so in retrospect I am very, very happy with the decisions I have made.

    By contrast, my sister was married and divorced twice by the age of 40 with nary a break in between the two husbands. At the age of 42 she is now making plans to marry husband #3.

    Guess which one of us is considered “defective”?

    And I’ve heard other single women saying that they get this insinuated, too–a lot of people think you’re “weird” for never having married, but these same people will go on and on about how awful their ex is/was, how screwed they were in the divorce, etc. But somehow, if you take steps to avoid such horrors in your life, you aren’t fully human, and you are certainly not fully female, and always, your sexuality is suspect because, as we have read countless times on this board, female sexuality is all about getting to the LTR.

    It has been my experience that people who think non-marrieds are defective also feel special or superior because they are married. Anymore I just flat out refuse to listen to people who want to abuse my good will by complaining about their present or former marriages ad nauseum, as if marriage is the only legitimate form of relationship, and we should all be so concerned about what’s going on within it. If it were a two-way street about my intimate relationships, which are not “sanctioned,” I’d be OK with it. But is isn’t, so I’m not.

    Oh, and I don’t listen to women friends who are unattached but desperate to find a guy and being all depressed about it, either, which is a way of putting themselves down.

    I believe I am supporting these people by offering a different point of view.

47. Curly Girl Jun 13th 2009 at 08:46 pm 47

    LondonGirl: I thought about this, too–what if the question were reversed. Though I don’t think EMK would dare on this board!!!:)

    I think the assumption in that case would be that the woman is unattractive or crazy. Though I think that assumption is just a stereotype and is wrong. In my case, so many people have said to me, truly puzzled, that they don’t see why I am not married (implying that a man didn’t “pick” me) when I am cute and successful and not crazy. It took me a long time to come up with the answer, which is, truthfully, that I chose not to be. (Not opposed–I might choose to marry in the future, if it seems like a good thing. I don’t have a problem attracting guys and I love my guy friends.)

    For many women like me marriage poses a lot of risks and not nec. a lot of reward. I have a thriving career and make a lot of money–now, but it wasn’t so when I was starting out. And had I married someone whose career was “more important” than mine (and for some reason, the guy’s career was always “more important” than mine), I would have given up my main years of professional development. Had I had children in a marriage it would have been a worse situation. Would I want to have children with a guy who is all full of bluster about his career, dismissive of mine, and who can’t even pick up his socks or wash a dish or cook a meal? Or know enough to hire someone to do it?

    Unfortunately, those were my options in my 20s, the prime years for getting married. I’m in an unusual career and I was very insecure starting out; had I been different I’m sure I would have attracted a different sort of guy, and if guys my age were raised with different expectations of women it would have been easier, too. But it was the way it was, and I have no regrets except that I didn’t figure all of this out sooner and come up with better responses to the rude assumptions about me.

    I am just hitting my stride professionally, and it is so gratifying that it all paid off, that I made the right choices for me and didn’t succumb to the pressure. I would have been so miserable, and so would have those unfortunate enough to have been in my sphere of influence.

    Which is why I push back against the marriage-mania mentality. Marriage isn’t the best decision for everyone, and women who love their careers and don’t want to give them up or have their work come second have a lot to consider in choosing a mate. It isn’t just the guys “rejecting” successful women; it’s successful women “rejecting” them–better to be alone than cut out a part of yourself to please someone. (And thank heavens there are guys who like us for us!! )

    Given the financial nightmare that ensues when a traditional marriage ends, “traditional” being where the wife doesn’t work outside the home and raises the kids (in my state and the ones around me a guy might be called upon to pay alimony to his ex for life), I can also appreciate that guys would be very hesitant to marry, too.

    We all need to listen to our guts and choose wisely.

48. downtowngal Jun 14th 2009 at 04:37 am 48

    In my observation, guys, more so than women, get used to routines. They become set in their ways, and don’t seem to work on themselves in such a way that would enable them to become suitable marriage partners.

    Evan, I applaud you for your advice/reasons why a guy may be single passed 40. I keep an open mind when dating, but more often than not, unfortunately, every time I’ve dated a guy over 40 who’s never been married it hasn’t been a good experience. Just a few examples, (1) rude on the phone/on the date (2) has had numerous LTR’s but never ended up married because he told me the women all “ended up going psycho” (3) are either too afraid to make the effort of don’t know what they want (i.e. after a great date where we disussed going out again, I receive a txt message 10 days later saying, ‘let me know if you want to get together soon’). (4) Has a history of dating women who are emotionally unavailable and complains, WHILE ON THE DATE W ME, that he can’t find a nice, decent, intelligent woman who’s ready (5) met at a party, spoke on the phone a couple of times soon afterwards, made plans and then he goes AWOL – and I found out he’d done this w other women. And he’s still single. (6) Rejected me because of my age – 36 instead of 34 – and he’s 39 and never had a gf.

    Contrast this to guys at that age who’ve already been married, they know how to date and have realistic expectations of what makes a good marriage/ltr partner. And my guy friend who are married are the first ones to advise me never to put up with the examples I noted above.

    I’m sure there are reasons why some 40+ women remain single, I think it’s different. If you survey never-married women 40+, I’ll bet most will say they’ve been in love with at least one guy in a LTR who couldn’t commit or did something really bad. I’m not as sure you’d hear that from the guys. A friend of mine wh’s a social worker counseling people w relationship issues confirms my theory.

    Again, Evan, thx for sheading some light. I’ll continue to keep an open mind and screen out the rif-raf.

49. Kenley Jun 14th 2009 at 06:37 am 49

    Curly Girl,

    I find that I often agree with your posts as I am single woman in her 40’s who has never married or lived with anyone because I never wanted children and I just didn’t see any point in getting married since I don’t want children.

    Perhaps the people around me — family, friends, co-workers — have been unusual, but none of them have ever gaven me a hard time for not wanting to get married or to have children — and to your point, I’m not ugly, mean or crazy. I just never acted ashamed or sorry or apologetic for not wanting those things. When people ask me why I didn’t want to get married or have children I just say I’m not selfless enough to be a great wife and mother and that I don’t think enough people regard marriage or parenthood with the respect and reverence they should while I do.

    While I don’t want those things, however, what I don’t do is point out why other people shouldn’t get married and have children. I don’t point out all the horrible divorces and bad kids etc. Because for every messy divorce, there are women (and maybe one or two guys) who are absolutely miserable because they aren’t married with kids. So, to me the answer is to live and let live. Everyone should do what they feel is right for them and their decisions should be respected and supported.

    You did mention how you are glad that you chose your career over marriage and kids. From my perspective, career and money are not the end all and be all either. I know many people who gave their lives to their professions — neglecting friends, family, and all else — for the company and to make money. Only success mattered. This economy has forced some people to rethink their values. As these people have lost their jobs and their money and for some their self esteem and purpose, they have come to realize organizations will use you and toss you aside without hesitation….kind of the way a husband or wife might in a marriage.

50. Michael Jun 14th 2009 at 10:41 am 50

    Well if you count a blog message board, now you know one. You honestly don’t know *any*? Are you in a very sparsely populated town?
    I honestly do not know any women my age who have never been married and never had kids who are qualified and available.

    So many women I know from college, who used to be in that category, are married now. The others have boyfriends. I want to get married so I could prove to them that I am just as good as they are.

51. Ava Jun 14th 2009 at 11:15 am 51

    @ Curly Girl, I’m right there with ya, although I would like to be in an LTR…my self-esteem and relationship choices are much better now than in my 20’s and 30’s.

    @ VR: “Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit… not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho”.

    I fail to see the importance of someone having had “a youthful, silly marriage”. What is so great about someone having met Ms. Wrong, and going ahead and marrying her anyway? Perhaps a person shows better judgment by NOT marrying the wrong person?

52. downtowngal Jun 14th 2009 at 12:41 pm 52

    Michael, you should want to get married because it’s the right thing for YOU, not to prove something to others. I think one of the reasons there are so many divorces/unhappy marriages is because people marry for the wrong reasons.

    And do you live near a large city? You may have better luck finding someone than if you live in the burbs, maybe get involved w activities you enjoy i.e. cycling club, skiing, acting.

    Which brings the question, how would you define “qualified” as a partner?

    Don’t take this the wrong way, but from reading your posts you sound a little down on yourself. I know plenty of women over 40 in your position who would love to meet a good guy. Keep your spirits up, I’m sure that if you make the effort you’ll find the right gal and defy the ‘over 40-never-married’ stereotype. good luck!

53. hunter Jun 14th 2009 at 02:12 pm 53

    40 or 50 and never married, divorced, etc., what amazes me, is how we all meet at the same internet site, singles activities, etc.

54. hunter Jun 14th 2009 at 02:14 pm 54

    …pointing fingers, whining, complaining..

55. Jura Jun 14th 2009 at 02:56 pm 55

    Great points, downtowngal. As for me (female, 33), the greatest fear is a “stringer” who toys with a woman for 3, 5, 7, 10 years to never commit, but honestly, it does not matter how old they (“stringers”) are. But it is easy to suspect a 40 year old never married man to be one, had he been in more than one dead-end long term relationship.

56. Michael Jun 14th 2009 at 03:53 pm 56

    Oh, and I don’t listen to women friends who are unattached but desperate to find a guy and being all depressed about it, either, which is a way of putting themselves down.
    I do not know of any women who was desperate to find a guy.

    Where can I find such women?
    Don’t take this the wrong way, but from reading your posts you sound a little down on yourself.
    So many women that I know from college, who are the same age or younger, are married.

57. Curly Girl Jun 14th 2009 at 04:39 pm 57

    Downtown: I’ve had female friends make this observation, too, that of the single people they know in their 40s the women are all amazing and it isn’t clear why they’re single but the single guys are a little weird and you can tell why they’re single. I think that’s a little harsh, but I’ve met a lot of weird guys on dates, too, like you have, and there does seem to be a particular breed of icky-never married-over 40 guy.

    Kenley: The reason I bring up the negative statistics about marriage is to counteract the overwhelmingly ubiquitous message in our culture that you have to be married to fit in, be normal, etc. And that message is directed especially at females, and from a very young age. If you did not absorb that message or knew early on in your life to ignore it, I applaud you, and you are lucky and you are rare. If more people understood just how serious marriage is from an emotional, financial, and legal point of view–and how devestating a bad one is–perhaps there would be fewer bad marriages and fewer miserable people.

    Again, my pet peeve: People dumping their marriage woes (or “lack of marriage” woes) on me while discounting my close relationships. I am getting better at setting boundaries around this issue, though, so more and more I am not caring as much.

58. Curly Girl Jun 14th 2009 at 05:10 pm 58

    Downtown: There is also another category of the over-40 guy who is dating: enraged-at-ex guy, where you can see exactly why he is divorced. This kind of guy can be very judgmental about women who have never been married. It’s very amusing!

    The guy I’m seeing now is in his 40s, never married. And not weird or creepy or angry, and very cute and stable. When I asked him if he had ever been engaged or married, he said no, that it hadn’t happened, that as soon as he’d fallen in love they always started to break up. And that he didn’t see many happy marriages anyway, so no incentive.

    See? As the saying goes, every old sock finds an old shoe. He does speak somewhat kindly of being married some day. And we are in the same profession (different kind of jobs), so I don’t have to explain anything about my passion there, and that’s one of things we find in each other–a rare understanding.

59. hunter Jun 14th 2009 at 07:31 pm 59

    Curlygirl, icky-never married over 40 guys?…hhmmh, how funny…I would rephrase that to, “clueless” on account of his not being informed/trained by other women or, he was just dealt the wrong deck of cards from the beginning. Usually, these men are plain average looks(very intelligent, bright, in other areas), but men that women overlook at a young age.

60. downtowngal Jun 15th 2009 at 03:42 am 60

    CG, thx for the post, glad to hear you found a great guy! Honesltly it doesn’t sound as if he’s wanted to get married, guess he’s been burned, but either way i wish you all be best!!

    And Hunter, I’ve seen less-than-average looking-former-nerdy guys get married and settle down. but what I’ve found is that many of these same types of guys who remain single don’t open themselves up – now that they’re successful and their skin has cleared up they still carry the same insecurities – they overlook women who are smart, fun and ‘merely’ attractive and instead try to go after supermodels. I see it a lot in NY, it’s really sad.

61. Steve Jun 15th 2009 at 05:34 am 61

    @VR, #18

    Personally I would not date a guy over 40 who hasn’t been married, that is a long time not to legally commit… not even a youthful, silly marriage? Major Red Flags, imho.

    I cringe when I think of how obtuse and irresponsible I was at the age of 18. Yet, even at that age I would have taken marriage as a serious and major commitment. I wouldn’t have taken it as “youthful, silly” thing to do.

    If I was as quick to judge your comment as you are to judge men who simply belong to a particular demographic I would question your judgment.

62. Steve Jun 15th 2009 at 05:47 am 62

    @Cilla post #32

    I understand where you are coming from about people who are set in their ways as far as living arrangements go. I’ve had housemates like that…..of all ages.

    Since I’ve lived in many shared living situations I’ve had all of the downsides of dealing with housemates and none of the upsides of being married. I’ve learned to play nice with others in that situation and be flexible. I don’t think I am the only over 40 single person who learned those lessons.

    BTW, I’m currently in a relationship with a man who is also divorced. We are both divorced because our spouses cheated on us. Does that make US the “defective” ones? I don’t think so

    Why not?

    I’ve heard many people say that spouses are inspired to cheat by not getting something at home. I think that reasoning is wrong ethically, but sometimes it does help partially explain things.

    Maybe you let your appearances go. Maybe you worked all of the time and ignored your spouse. Maybe you gave up on your life.

    Feel insulted? Do you feel like telling me that I don’t know anything about you, your life or the situation with your ex?
    Do you feel unfairly labeled?

    You are absolutely right.

    That is what us defective over 40 never marrieds are getting from comments like yours.

63. Steve Jun 15th 2009 at 07:07 am 63

    @Curly Girl;

    You are rightfully railing against people who prejudge single never married women, yet you along with DTG are posting prejudgment after prejudgment in a number of comments on this thread.

64. Michael Jun 15th 2009 at 07:10 am 64

    But it is easy to suspect a 40 year old never married man to be one, had he been in more than one dead-end long term relationship.
    And if he never had a relationship at all ?

65. Curly Girl Jun 15th 2009 at 09:37 am 65

    Steve: You seem to think that I’m saying all over-40 unmarried guys fall into the categories of “prejudgement” that you say Downtown was mentioning. Not so! But I do recognize the truth in what DTG is saying generally.

    There are some guys over 40 who are weird in a very specific, icky way. One such guy is the aging player, who believes he should be with someone younger and hotter and who treats women his own age with contempt. He probably always treated women with contempt, but he when he was younger it was women his own age and he was probably cute. This type of bad male behavior does not age well.

    Then there is the guy who describes all ex girlfriends or the ex wife as “crazy” or “psycho” or, my personal favorite, “bipolar.” After awhile with one of these guys you begin to see why he always has this impression of women–because he’s a crazymaking person. This type of bad behavior (in both genders) is also always there, but it is the sheer number of “crazy” people in this person’s past, built up over many years, that is the tip-off.

    The set-in-his-ways guy. I actually never went out with a guy like this. But I would say he was probably always controlling; at first it might be quirky and even charming, but after a couple of decades of that it just comes off as boring and unimaginative and insufferable.

    And here are some generalizations for unmarried over-35 women that I’ve heard (yes, the weirdness age drops for women!):

    Middle-aged New Age woman who’s into all kinds of esoterica and is waiting for a soulmate. Usually some kind of creative person (actress, painter, jewelry maker) who does massage therapy on the side and is always broke and into worshipping her “feelings.”

    Dried-up, angry manhater into her career with no soft edges to her life and no relationships at all. Never gives the guy the time of day, needs to argue and compete with him. Doomed to die alone unless she forges some great commitment to a cat.

    And so it goes. If you visit Italy and notice that the train departures never match the posted times, you might draw the conclusion that trains in Italy are always late. And you might go back to the US and say that the trains in Italy are always late. So people make generalizations. And they start to alter their behavior based on the general assumptions they are making, which may be a good call or may be a bad call. Generalizations are often spot on. And sometimes a bad call actually elicits the very behavior we profess to despise in others. If you only date guys, you might attribute these behaviors in a general way to guys. And vice versa if you only date women.

    We’re all crazy.

66. downtowngal Jun 15th 2009 at 04:09 pm 66

    CG, LOL!!!

    …now please exuse me as I spend quality time w my cat because I have no friends to discuss why I’m sexually frustrated as men are all evil…..

67. Steve Jun 15th 2009 at 07:00 pm 67

    #65 and #66

    Blech. No thank you.

68. James Jun 15th 2009 at 08:35 pm 68

    I am going to chime in on the Steve/Cilla argument, Evan’s comments who according to his info is 36 and thus considered a million times younger than me at 37 to the new female invented paradigm of the molding male. Yes it’s new as if you actually talk to your mothers, grandmothers or actually crack a book you will find that it used to be…just 20 years ago that a “Eligible Bachelor” was mostly a male > 30 years old, never married, financially stable, who initially focused on his career and then after also getting his own shit together and becoming a centered person on his own went to look for the woman to actually marry for the rest of his life, not just under a decade to prove that they like keeping lawyers employed. Look it up people it’s true.

    Some of us men (mostly Gen-X) were told this pattern by…our mothers who pretty much followed the selection path of marrying a guy who generally met this criteria and/or she got divorced and also made you very sketchy about marriage as a disposable commodity. That is a generational thing as my parents had an awful divorce that my mother initiated not long after no fault kicked in, but besides that awful situation (that my single 39 year old sister didn’t like) it taught a true lesson that our once, twice three times in the past two decades divorcees may not have learned.

    The real reasons for divorce as in my mothers case is usually a combination of:
    1) People who are not emotionally whole on their own and get into a co-dependent relationship that implodes.
    2) People still trying to figure out who they are and by the time they do they realize the other person doesn’t match.
    3) People who try to manage or change the other person to fit their ideal mold and it implodes at some point.
    4) People who marry “at the right time” to a person who on the surface seems “a good match” according to society and spend the next 1-10 years to figure out that the surface crap didn’t matter and they at the personality level they had little or nothing in common…except maybe demographics.
    5) People who decide that the idea of being married and having kids can make them happy enough to pretend…and then it implodes.
    6) People who bullshit themselves and others as to who they really are and eventually can’t keep it up.
    7) People who continually date and marry people like the above and never think their choices have something to do with it.
    Secret masochists who like complaining about bad relationships more than being in a good relationship. (This is the “all men are” or “all women are” people.)
    9) Young people that don’t even let the relationship develop enough to get past early crush/infatuation/hormones.
    10) Lazy and picky people who cannot accept normal human flaws and refuse to work at any relationship themselves, but often try to delegate that responsibility to the other person who is always wrong, and they are always right.
    11) Like daters who are never alone…Marriage becomes a bus-stop until a ride to a better destination comes along.
    12) Those who treat it totally frivolously and some who game the divorce system like an ATM and may still have all 11 reasons above, but always run to the lawyer to get their pound of flesh and it is rarely men(see courts stats all Divorces…70% women initiate).
    13) Someone has major emotional issues that they hide really, really well…until after married…explosion then implosion.

    Does this mean I’m saying this is you as a Divorcee? No. Unlike missile launches it only takes one person fitting any of the above 13 reasons I just rattled off to cause divorce or just as easily any relationship failure. These are strange times where it also takes longer to get established, education costs and loans are far higher and the starting pay is less in real dollars as it has been declining since 1972, which the value of all dollars has reduced via inflation worldwide. (unless you are in the AIG group…then money is free!)

    Many of us tried to avoid the mistakes of our parents, esp. if we went through a bad divorce as children, had to pay some or a lot of our way, but still wanted to be in the ideal stable and formerly eligibly bachelor position to be ready to start a family in every way without a bunch of practice marriages. Men especially saw the financial cost of bad selection or being duped by our friends and wanted to do it right the first time and thus “picky”.

    As Steve said and my sister and I both researched heavily (and shame on you Evan for not bringing up data)…every single well done study says that the chances or odds for a successful marriage is always greater if it is the first time for both and handicapped for each divorce either partner does, but apparently after 3 divorces most can get remarried, but men at that stage are far more likely to marry the last time than women. (like he said…the data is out there). It was actually the number one dominant factor against or for marriage success and there was also data showing that getting married for the first time over 30 increased chances of a lasting marriage. Lots more data if you want to look it up, but most of it is the opposite of the myths mentioned and Evan echoed at least statistically spread by suspicious Divorcees who wonder why we didn’t dive into the murky water.

    Establishing career is likely the best answer to the not-messed up man and in some cases it takes more time. They wanted to have time for the family so figured work like mad as a single and then you are stable for a family. Used to make sense before women became so paranoid and picky themselves. Online dating studies show that for the most part women are far more picky and unrealistic than men and in this case she’s going 100s or 1000s of miles to find Mr. Perfect (who rarely exists) instead of Mr. Normal and okay closer to home.

    Evan’s own advice says that one of the #1 mistakes women make online is using it to limit their options by allowing their demographic shopping go nuts (>6ft, > $100K, Blue Eyes, Blond Hair, Can’t be balding at all, etc.) instead of using it to expand their options, email and chat with more men locally as a pre-screening process to coffee dates to see if you actually click with more than his personal resume. The saddest and worst thing is most female lists these days are so far from what would make them happy it’s scary…seen my sister revise hers for more than a decade…she dated players/jerks/pretty-boys for almost 20 years before she figured out her list sucked.

    So is there an objective scientifically validated reason why men have or might have such a bias on women’s age? Yes. At 27 years old on average all women’s fertility starts to decline and chances of all types of birth issues (defect, miscarriages, etc) goes up exponentially. The raw numbers were never in dispute…a bunch of medical associations were trying to get the word out about such a simple fact and NOW shut them down. Do men have the same problem? Nope. Not generally and not on average and not to the degrees the myth makers would have you believe. I read most of the good studies and if the measure is the absolute probability in birth or birth defects of the baby itself or chances to conceive…the maternal age swamps any effect of the paternal age which only starts to show a significant effect after 55 years old. I checked for myself as I considered freezing some stuff of mine just in case. Men’s health is far more important and can change the quality of their sperm as we regenerate it daily. Women carry around the same eggs since birth and they age and are mostly unaffected by the woman’s general health.

    So for a man in good or at least better than average shape of 35, 30, 45 or even 50 with everything else perfect with the exception of a story to explain which if it doesn’t come up by you in the first 3 dates then you are a moron is WHY didn’t he get married, what’s he been up to and where he sees himself in 5-10 years…and if he’s married with kids then. For the better communicating sex women somehow forget basic communication or honest sharing when your are ready before getting serious?!? Forget about our age…grow the F up if you can’t talk!

    So what’s my dark secret?

    Short version:
    1) Everything I said above was true about divorce of my parents was true and it was awful for about a decade after for us kids caught between two twits who probably never should have got married. I respect marriage to much to want a disposable one and I do not want one to implode and also mess with my future kids lives as the children always suffer the sins of the parents. One time for life with a whole person who has her shit together.

    2) Bachelor stuff I said was true and money stuff too and if I lived in the 70s or even 80s at my current age…no one would care. But this is a post-feminist era that still tells myths that don’t stand up to science or biology and you wonder why there are 40+ women heading to the sperm banks…no good men…it ain’t us.

    3) I had some bad luck and fell in love with and dated a girl who fit 13) above. Lucky we didn’t get married as she turned into literally the women from Fatal Attraction, except I had no bunny to boil. She took drugs, alcohol, both, tried to commit suicide and would call me up after we broke up for “attention” and I’d rush her to the hospital. She stalked me…called me from hundreds of numbers by living in a 1000 girl dorm and going from room to room and call block only covers 20 numbers. She broke into my house on drugs and drunk and was violent. When did this all happen? It was supposed to be my 4th and final year in engineering…I flunked out…had to claw my way back into a local university where my Dad had some pull…they forced me to repeat so much crap with a new engineering degree it took me another 3-years to graduate and I got a job immediately that I still have (well I’ve moved up some).

    Do you know what the Jews say (Hi Evan), “Never again!” I vowed that I would never take the chance of having a woman almost destroy my life because I cared too much and had no where to run. So I determined to stabilize my life and myself so that I was 100% bedrock top to bottom. Paid off all my student loans in full. Bought and own my own car. Bought my first home(condo) with a huge down payment by living back at home to save cash. Kept my job in a bad area/industry (Detroit/Auto) and worked like a dog to be respected with awards and a stellar resume so that I can walk or find new stuff if needed.

    I dated a bit on and off, but nothing serious and much like the monks I contemplated my past, myself and not only came to terms, but I’m so centered now that no one can knock me off my life balance…at work or personally. So I’m now looking like my 40 something com padre Steve against the backdrop of some of the most superficial women ever who will either date guys just on their pure looks, or other demographic reasons, blindly sleep with all the bar players and get bitter against all men as well as filtering more and more in the wrong direction (as I have seen in my sister).

    Men generally haven’t changed. Women have. They’ve lost the knowledge their mothers had in many cases, listen to crap from the mags and Opra-h. Create consensus on how men are with other women…rarely talking to an actual man about men. They stopped trying to know us and stopped trying to understand and accept us (at least statistically…see Bill Maher’s making women nod bit) and the Mars/Venus thing is true. What’s worse is women have forgotten who they are and what attributes in men would really make them happy if they can accept us as being real men. The world has become so anti-male it is hard to tell anymore of the true nature of men is known by any women at all, well beyond psychologists who see the gap themselves.

    Women who actually start meeting guys with a wider net for coffee dates over bars can quickly separate the players and the 40+ single men who either have issues or have legit shit that happened to them that made them decide to wait a bit. Ask them about their life, their hopes, their dreams, their history their future and share yours honestly and organically and not like an interview and you will know very quickly. If you can’t do this yourself…maybe you aren’t ready or centered enough to get back out there and need some “me” time!

69. Lance Jun 15th 2009 at 08:37 pm 69

    What’s wrong with Irish guys?

    Here’s my advice: just ask the guy why he hasn’t been married at age 42, converse about it, and then make a call on whether the reasons are good enough for you. Also, Kate, what’s your age and have you been married before? Are you a divorced single parent? To me, that’s a red flag. Go with your gut on this one.

    Lance´s last blog post…Away We Go

70. Selena Jun 16th 2009 at 05:11 am 70

    CG #65

    Your post made me smile. I was involved with a man for a time who claimed his ex-wife “slowly went crazy”. As months rolled by I could see why. HE was a bit crazy himself and was making me crazy being with him. Lasted longer than it should have.

    Since I’ve been reading relationship websites, I’ve discovered it’s best not to refer to an ex as “crazy” because saying so is a reflection upon yourself. Why did you stay with a crazy person ?- defective. Or it shows bitterness, or a denial in your part of the destruction of the relationship – again, defective.

    Also the point Steve made about cheating: are you not in some small way at fault if your partner cheated on you? I mean, at the very least, you CHOSE that cheating partner didn’t you? – defective.

    If you have had previous relationships that ended for any reason, obviously SOMETHING didn’t work out to your liking, otherwise you would still be with that person. So why should never married people be considered defective in some way, regardless of their relationship history? Maybe they have successfully avoided the crazies, and the cheaters? Maybe they caught on to the crazies and the cheaters BEFORE they married them? ( I did! I did!)

    Or maybe you are right Curly Girl…we’re all crazy. Yeah.

71. Cilla Jun 16th 2009 at 08:38 am 71

    @ Selena

    I still think (and I know I’ll get flamed here, as Lance says) that, if the commentary here is any reflection of the dating world at large, there is big difference between unmarried women and unmarried men. It’s like comparing apples and oranges. And I’m sure, as a woman, I’m biased.

    Many of the women posting here either seem to have ducked unhealthy relationships or are just comfortable being single. The men seem to have also skirted some bad partnerships, but seem more traumatized by them (surprising). They also come across to me as a little bitter about women and given to long lists (full of statistics and scientific information) of why they’re still single.

    Guys, you doth protest too much, methinks. Some of the comments here pique my intuition about the “icky” component mentioned by previous posters.

72. Ava Jun 16th 2009 at 09:01 am 72

    #70 Serena, I agree.

    Crazy people have serious relationships with other crazy people. Unless perhaps he was very young, any time a man tells me how horrible/crazy/miserable his ex was, I get suspicious.

73. Diana Jun 16th 2009 at 09:03 am 73

    To James, this isn’t intended to sound like pity, but I am sorry she hurt you so deeply, and your parents, too. My impression is that your resulting pain and anger pushed you to excel even more, pushing you to become the man you admire today. I hope you find the kind of woman you are searching for, assuming you are. They are not all as you describe.

74. Cilla Jun 16th 2009 at 10:35 am 74

    @ Ava

    I agree, if a man says every relationship he has been in has been with a “crazy” person, I’d say “You spot it, you got it,” meaning he’s likely the “crazy” one and induces “crazy-making” behavior (sometimes referred to as “gaslighting” from the old movie with Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman.

    However, I just can’t get behind your contention that “crazy people have relationships with other crazy people,” assuming that “crazy” means mentally ill, unstable, bipolar, depressed, etc., and that one needs to be “crazy” to be involved with a “crazy” person. There are plenty of “normal” people in relationships with “crazy” people.

    There are whole support networks for family and friends of people with mental illness, just as there are for people who must deal with alcoholism, drug addiction, etc. You wouldn’t say “alcoholics have serious relationships with other alcoholics” as blanket rule, would you? In fact, more often than not, addicts and people with mental illness (sometimes they overlap) seek out “normal” partners who function as enablers or foils for their behavior. Two disordered people in a relationship is usually the recipe for rapid self-destruction. It happens, but the Kurt Cobain/Courtney Love type of combination is the exception, not the rule. And look what it did to him.

75. Karl R Jun 16th 2009 at 10:52 am 75

    Cilla said: (#71)
    “I still think [...] there is big difference between unmarried women and unmarried men. It’s like comparing apples and oranges. And I’m sure, as a woman, I’m biased.”

    I’d agree that you’re biased, and it also sounds like a self-serving bias.

    “They also come across to me as a little bitter about women and given to long lists (full of statistics and scientific information) of why they’re still single.”

    A few of the guys do sound bitter about women. (And some of the women sound bitter about men. Welcome to this blog.) Does Steve sound bitter? Do I?

    I use statistics because they’re more accurate than anecdotes. I can find a single anecdote or a few anecdotes to support almost any claim at all, including ones I know are dead wrong.

    And if I gave a single reason why I was still single, would that sound remotely reasonable?

    Even if the reason was “the man is defective”, that wouldn’t prevent a man from getting married. I know a schizophrenic who has been married twice, and he’s dating again. (He’s rather creepy even when he’s on his meds.)

    Unless you get to know someone personally (and possibly rather well), you won’t know why he or she is still single. The same is true for knowing why someone is divorced.

    “Guys, you doth protest too much, methinks.”

    Is that any different from any other group on this blog who feel that they’re unfairly biased against? (Short men, older women, blacks & hispanic women, asian men, etc.)

    “(and I know I’ll get flamed here, as Lance says)”

    If you really want to get flamed, go suggest that older women are bitter and ‘doth protest too much’ about being overlooked in online dating.

76. Ava Jun 16th 2009 at 11:44 am 76

    @ Cilla #74

    Sorry for tossing off the sweeping generalization. Of course, you’re right. I guess what I’m saying is that sane people don’t knowingly embark on, or stay in, serious relationships with those who are actively “crazy” and not seeking, or having sought, treatment.

77. Helen Jun 16th 2009 at 11:59 am 77

    Cilla: I know plenty of men in their 40s who are contentedly single, not “crazy” or desperate. They are usually very happy with their jobs and outside activities. Maybe it’s not safe to generalize about single men or women of any age.

    Karl R: definitely agree that statistics are far superior to anecdotes! It’s annoying when someone offers up an anecdote and seems to think that it proves the general case. (You’re totally my kind of guy, but I’m already taken.)

78. Steve Jun 16th 2009 at 12:52 pm 78

    @Karl, #75

    You can’t reason with a person who has already decided that she wants a particular opinion to be right no matter what. Thanks for trying though. It was refreshing to read your points.

79. Selena Jun 16th 2009 at 01:48 pm 79

    I suspect by the 40’s there are relatively few persons (male or female) who haven’t had at least one serious relationship that ended for whatever reason. I’ve had the opportunity to be married 4 times by age 45. I would also have had to opportunity to be divorced 4 times by the age of 46. Probably the only reason I am not a multiple divorcee is because I lived with each of my partners a number of years. Long enough to decide I didn’t want to make a lifetime commitment to each fellow’s particular brand of “craziness” – instability, choosing work over family, cheating, alcoholism. Does this make me “smart” or a commitmentphobe? Frankly, I think if anything it shows I didn’t take the vow of marriage frivolously. And *I* would presume the same of other never-marrieds over 40.

    As a 48 yr. old spinster (heh heh) I think I’ve had a pretty full life (so far!). It includes a son and two grandsons. I could be bitter, but where’s the fun in that? So am I defective because I never married? Or am I defective because I’ve had relationships that didn’t turn out as well as I had hoped they would? Maybe I’m not defective at all really, but how would you know without getting to know me personally? The point Karl and others have been trying to make on this thread. You will never know WHY people made the choices they did until they feel comfortable opening themselves up to you. But why bother with that when you can dismiss them up front for never having been married. Or having been divorced. Or having loved and lost and gone on to love again. More than once. I prefer to take each individual as they come. I get to hear alot of fascinating stories that way.

    And to Ava #72
    To quote the musician Seal: “You know we’re never gonna survive…Unless…We all get a little bit Craazzzy”

    One of my favorite songs. Obviously. LOL

80. Cilla Jun 16th 2009 at 02:53 pm 80

    @ Helen

    I didn’t say the men were crazy or desperate–I believe you are referring to another poster. I only used the word “crazy” in responding to Ava’s post.

    I’m sure there are plenty of men who are contentedly single.

    @ Steve @ Karl R

    The key word in #75 is “opinion.” Like the other opinions expressed here, it’s not right or wrong–it’s simply my perception. I answered the question posed by the title of the blog from my point of view, as did other posters from theirs. I imagine that if Evan expected everyone to concur on this topic, he wouldn’t have asked about it in the first place. In giving my opinion, I used the phrase “yellow light,” saying it wasn’t an absolute rule, but something that gave me serious pause.

    You are not exactly advancing the cause for the older, unmarried gentleman. You seem very insistent that I should want to date in that category, even though I’ve said I prefer not to. That insistence only serves to reinforce my preconceptions further.

    As Evan wrote in I Can’t Believe I’m Buying This Book, “… generally a tall woman who says she doesn’t want to date a man who is 5′6″ means it.” It’s no different than a woman who doesn’t want to date a man who is of a certain age and never married. No amount of brow beating with statistics (source? confidence interval?) is likely to change that.

    If you think I’m limiting my dating pool that way, you’re right, I am. As other posters have noted, dating isn’t always about keeping one’s options open–sometimes it’s about narrowing down the field to find the person you’re most compatible with.

81. Cilla Jun 16th 2009 at 04:04 pm 81

    Let me put it a different way:

    I think margaritas are the bomb. I love to sit outside in the warm weather, eating Mexican food and having a margarita or two. I know hundreds of people who also like to do this. I’m sure around the world, there are millions.

    I have a friend who drank one to many margaritas in college. Puked for hours. Horrible hangover the next day. She had one of the worst experiences possible with a margarita.

    It doesn’t matter if margaritas are great to me. It doesn’t matter if statistically speaking, millions of people love margaritas. My friend’s personal experience with margaritas will keep her from ever trying one again.

    Now, imagine that margaritas are single men over 40. See what I’m saying?

82. James Jun 16th 2009 at 04:28 pm 82

    @Diana #73

    Thanks and no insult taken! Actually lately I’ve been channeling more job/economic stress into other things including online posts as I am genuinely over…well let’s say coping very well from my movie like misadventure in love. I am still the chivalrous, but now more cynical knight that my mom originally raised who tries to do the right thing and sometimes gets screwed over for it.

    Not to pile more on, but there was another time/life suckage factor that slowed me and my sister both down. Our mother almost died and got frontal lobe brain damage at a “family” baseball event by a intoxicated cousin when I was 17 and she was 19. We both managed the business for about a couple of years to some degree while she rehabilitated.

    She took back “full control” when I was about 19 and went away to school and we eventually found out our mother still had “issues” and what used to be minor quirks were magnified to “Rain man” level behavior when she had episodes.(actually my mother literally grabbed the wheel of my car on the way back from the movie “Rain man” and we were lucky to not go into a huge ditch) My sister found out that essentially no one was really at the “wheel” when she came to help with the books and found the whole business ready to implode from neglect and with cash disappearing with bills not being paid.

    We agreed to save our mother from herself…took power of attorney, fixed up the finances, etc….got it back in good shape and was going to roll it into a trust…when our Uncle jumped in and financially supported our mother suing us for control of the stuff we just wanted to save for her. After winning twice in court…we realized that in the end this fight would just drain the stuff we tried to save and gave up.

    I ended up paying off most of the 5 figure lawyer bills myself. My mother lost her entire injury lawsuit because of the stuff she invented to beat our power of attorney control. The business eventually imploded later, my mom went broke…I got a last minute call with 24-48 hours before they seized the house I gathered all my guy friends and packed up as much stuff as we could, and I paid to have it in storage for about a year, then moved it twice, got her into public housing and she is now living a life more in line with her capabilities that is mostly paid for by disability and saved most of her stuff and got to sell lots of it for money. I got nothing but pain and grief mostly for doing all of that as well from her, but brain damage warps your view of reality.(no excuse for my uncle who was not available when the inevitable tower down fell completely)

    So lets just say I lost a lot of good dating or soul mate hunting time while trying to be a good man/person and do the right thing and I have lots of “character” now, but fortunately a good sense of humor too. I am looking more seriously now. I started the online thing a couple of years ago when I got my place, but since the economic downturn started early here…I didn’t spend as much time on it as I would have liked or possibly should have. I actually read Evan’s online dating book, but misplaced it and came to get some refreshers before I sent out a few amusing openers to some potentials…only to find this article telling me how in 3 years I’m cooked and Evan not being the bright, insightful and usually a tad more honest expert he normally is. Then again he said most of his clients were women and I read his related topic that has obvious cross-overs on this one here:

    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/where-are-all-the-cute-successful-funny-interesting-men/

    …as well as the other linked one, which made me suspect he is pretty careful not to bite the hand that feeds him, which is a shame as he would do a better service by being more honest rather than supporting comforting myths that won’t lead to happiness or self-realization and just provide easy things to blame or more artificial constraints between women and happiness with a good man.

    He does say or imply one thing well even if he dances around it a bit. One of the bigger mindset issues is far too many women confuse “settling” with “compromising” and “style” vs. “substance”. A non-compromiser using style or surface attributes as her main initial guide or filter will continually be disappointed with the “quality” of the guy based on her pre-screening and selection criteria and also that whole two-way give and take thing.

    I hope to somehow find my “very compatible, but not perfect” woman out there and just hope that I can get through her filter and twitchy “red-flag” detector, but this type of blog does not fill me full of hope. I am really funny in real life, but hoped the online dating thing would allow me to expand my reach to find really good personality, intelligence, politics, etc. fits…along with the cute/sexy thing.

    Every statistical study I have read that has been well done has that the odds are not near as good as they should be for someone in my situation. I cautiously hope for the best, but remain the cynical idealist or perhaps realist who knows that he alone can’t fix societal myths influencing his chances of getting an even shot with a compatible woman of value…but I’m looking for my damn outlier, cause hell knows that I know I am one to some degree.

    Here are two studies everyone snipping at each other in here should actually read front-to-back and then come back to throw down their 2-cents. Not sure why everyone else is ignoring my relevant points, but these days most people have attention spans slightly beyond hummingbird levels…my ideal mate must be intelligent, deep thinker, with an attention span and both open minded and critical thinking. Smarter than me would be ideal, but in the ballpark would do just fine.

    What Makes You Click? Mate Preferences and Matching Outcomes in Online Dating
    http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Papers.cfm?abstract_id=895442

    State of Our Unions 2002: Why Men Won’t Commit
    http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/Print/PrintSOOU2002.htm

83. Margaret Jun 16th 2009 at 06:34 pm 83

    Cilla,

    I am with you all the way. Although I am sure there are exceptions, in *general* I have found that men who are not married by their early 40s have one or another dealbreakers which make them not good marriage material.

    I have to admit, that, for the most part, I have avoided these men online. The few times I have gone against my gut, I have been very, very sorry.

    Again, I do acknowledge that there are exceptions, and one cannot make a blanket assumption about all men 40 and over who are never married.

84. George Jun 16th 2009 at 08:33 pm 84

    Let’s say I am over 40 and never been married. Maybe I was focused on my career. I had a few long term relationships, but they were never quite right. Who would want to date anyone that puts so much judgement into some one else’s age. Is it really “better” to have been divorced? Multiple families, not from what I have seen. The question seems incredibly shallow.

85. hunter Jun 16th 2009 at 08:55 pm 85

    James, some dissertation you wrote. I can also relate to most of it. I, somehow, don’t think that will earn you time in the sack.

86. Jura Jun 16th 2009 at 10:57 pm 86

    Re. #68

    You may want to look up statistical trends in engineers’ above 40 chances of fathering autistic children. Every day now, scientists bring new proofs on how paternal DNA _is_ affected by aging: there was no sure methodology before, there is now.

87. downtowngal Jun 17th 2009 at 05:20 pm 87

    George, you’re absolutely correct. Many women, unfortunately, have had negative experiences with 40+ never-marrieds but we still give it a try. Maybe it’s just a high concentration of guys in that demo who are available on line, but when you only have so much time on your hands you tend to base your selections on past experience. And given the choice these women would rather go w a guy the same age who’s already been married.

    That said, any 40+ never-married guy out there – as with ANY guy – who makes a sincere effort to be in a committed relationship will have a great chance of finding someone. I believe in defying stereotypes (I am one myself, btw) and don’t adhere to negative hype.

88. Selena Jun 18th 2009 at 09:42 am 88

    Another good point George #84 brought up: Mulitple families.

    Given a choice between a never married guy, or one with more than one ex, and more than one family to support (and be in be involved with)….which looks better?

89. Karl R Jun 18th 2009 at 01:54 pm 89

    Selena said: (#70)
    “I’ve discovered it’s best not to refer to an ex as ‘crazy’ because saying so is a reflection upon yourself.”

    I’d say that’s even more true when a person claims all of their exes were crazy, psycho, or horrible in some fashion. If someone is blaming their partner for everything that goes wrong in a relationship, then it doesn’t make me terribly optimistic about their conflict resolution skills.

    Maybe I’ve just been incredibly fortunate. None of my ex-girlfriends were horrible people, and I’ve remained good friends with several. But this strikes me as a situation where I’ve largely made my own luck. I’m not attracted to the kind of person who requires a restraining order after the breakup.

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