My Boyfriend of 7 Years Doesn’t Want to Move In or Get Married. What Should I Do?

My Boyfriend of 7 Years Doesn’t Want to Move In or Get Married. What Should I Do?

I am 40 and my boyfriend is 36. I have been previously married and have three kids 17, 15, and 10. He has none. We have been together for 7 years now. I have wanted to move in and get married since year two. He always says he “isn’t ready.”  

A year ago he started living with me, kind of. He keeps all of his clothes at my house sleeps there every night and spends his down time there even when I am not home. I recently said I want him to fully move in because I think it would be financially better. He still keeps his apartment with his things in it. He calls it his “studio” (he is an artist) and he, after a huge disagreement, finally agreed it was the right thing to do.  

Well, the day before the big move he backed out. He said he wasn’t ready and that he didn’t want to promise me anything in the future for fear of hurting me. He wants to keep it the way it is. I am so confused. We are really happy as long as we don’t talk about this kind of commitment. I believe he is in love with me but what do I do? Wait? I am confused what is going to change in his mind. He keeps saying he will lose himself and everything he loves to do if he moves in and gets married. He just sounds like a child to me. I appreciate your advice. Thank you. 

Sincerely,

Cahnie

This is going to be really hard for you to accept, Cahnie, but there’s no other way to say it:

Your boyfriend doesn’t want to marry you.

He’s never going to want to marry you.

If he actually DID marry you, it would be largely against his will and he’d end up resenting you for it.

And if you twisted his arm to get married and he resented you for it, it would probably not be a very happy marriage.

If he actually DID marry you, it would be largely against his will and he’d end up resenting you for it.

I know you just wrote me a three-paragraph email and I’m telling you to completely erase the past seven years, but, well, what were you expecting?

In fact, I’m going to guess that what I’ve just written only goes to confirm what you already know deep in your heart.

“I have wanted to move in and get married since year two.” 

“He always says he isn’t ready.”

“The day before the big move, he backed out.” 

“He didn’t want to promise me anything in the future for fear of hurting me.” 

“He keeps saying he will lose himself and everything he loves to do if he moves in and gets married.”

Honestly, sweetheart, the writing is on the wall in ten-foot fluorescent orange letters. GET OUT!

The fact is that he doesn’t want to move in with you or marry you – if he did, he’d have done it years ago. He has a relationship completely on his terms, and you didn’t have the guts to walk away in Year 3.

Now’s your chance.

Honestly, sweetheart, the writing is on the wall in ten-foot fluorescent orange letters. GET OUT!

Unless you want to write me this same exact email in one year, which is exactly what I predict if you don’t break up with him NOW.

P.S. If you NEVER want to get married and are content with this arrangement, you can keep seeing him, but you know what? He’s STILL going to break up with you eventually, so you might as well begin the healing process now.

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Comments:

  1. 211
    Sparkling Emerald

    Chance  @ 204
    People are allowed to set boundaries with their bodies and lives.  Most men obviously have fewer “rules” about sex than women, and I’m sure men would just love to be able to float through life and screw any woman that they see and desire on the spot and she would cheerily comply, no strings attached. But life doesn’t work that way.  Just as women (and men) can choose, who they give their money too, who they lend their belongings to and who they allow into their homes (and lives), women get to choose who they will share their bodies with.  It really doesn’t matter if their choice is based purely on attraction (she’ll have sex with any man who floats her boat, with no regard to the relationship between the too of them)  or if she has other criteria.  (has to get to know the man and evaluate the potential for a relationship)  A woman (and a man for that matter) can choose to refrain from sex for WHATEVER reason.   It’s HER choice.  It takes TWO.  And they both have a right to consent to or decline sex. 
    And many men don’t make it that easy.  Complain that they can’t get laid by any woman they desire and also complain that women are “sluts”.   

  2. 212
    Julia

    @Tom10
     
    Ok I’m confused – my definition of NSA sex means one can have sex without any expectations; therefore one can have sex and move on without any psychological effects – the motives of the other party being totally irrelevant. I don’t understand how you can say that you can have NSA sex, but also need to ensure that you weren’t used. If there were no strings/expectations how could you feel used? Would you not be using him, as much as he’s using you?
     
    Here’s the thing about life, its not black and white like you want to make it out to be. You don’t and can’t approach everyone the same way. If a woman is relationship orientated and desirable she could sleep with several men a week, that doesn’t mean she should. If she likes a man, she would probably want to get to know him before having sex with him. The entire point of NSA sex is there are no strings, if you have feelings those are strings.
     
    But let’s jump into my personal life for an example. I am currently dating. I go on 2-3 dates a week. I am 32 and I want to married and have a child so currently, that’s my goal. NSA interests me less because I view it as a waste of time. I don’t ask for sexclsuvity but I get invited to the apartment after a date a lot, I don’t take them up on the offer (I also never really had sex with someone I first met, I need to feel more comfortable than that.) However, there is a man I dated about 5 years ago. He currently ended an engagement and lives about 2 hours a way. He comes to town about once a month to visit his parents and when he does, we get together, have some drinks then have NSA sex. We always had good sexual chemistry but not much of an emotional chemistry. When the evening is finished we part ways and I don’t really think of it again. Since its only about once a month it doesn’t distract me from my goal. So there it is. I can have both NSA sex and not sleep with every man who wants to sleep with me/I am attracted to.

  3. 213
    Kiki

    @Kathleen 210,
    yeah, what you described sucks. I have been out of the dating world way too long to remember that such things happen… It’s one thing to give recommendations based on gender-relations theory (that would be me) and pretty harsh to be out in the trenches.
    Please keep us posted how it goes!

  4. 214
    Karl R

    Julia said: (#205)
    “There are some men who attach rules to sex, some men will stop dating any woman who doesn’t sleep with him on date #3.”
     
    Those are typically players. They’re mostly interested in sex, so they’re not wait around in a relationship where they might not get any. They just move on so they can find a like-minded woman.
     
    Why is a man a jerk for seeking a sexual relationship with a woman who wants the same thing he does?
     
    Julia said: (#205)
    “Some men don’t want to commit to a woman he thinks of as ‘loose’”
     
    Those are typically the religious/conservative types. In most cases, they hold themselves to a high standard … and they seek a like-minded woman.
     
    Why is a man a jerk for seeking a relationship with a woman who shares his values?
     
    Julia said: (#205)
    “I would say this is the minority though, definitely the MRA types”
     
    How is this an MRA-type attitude? Of all the MRA issues I’ve ever heard, this wasn’t one of them.
     
    Chance, (#204)
    I think your impression of MRA types is accurate for the majority of them.
     
    Tom10, (#208)
    I agree with your definition of NSA sex. In most cases, I assume that the parties involved have implicitly decided to mutually use each other for sex.
     
    Kiki said: (#209)
    “At least some women, and the majority of men think that good girls are virtuous (as in not having sex with a man who is not their boyfriend/husband).”
    “We women struggle to find ways to be desirable, sexual, and still chaste at the same time.”
     
    It sounds like you’re trying to be all things to all men. I’ve always seen that as a strategy that’s doomed to failure.
     
    Think about what you want in a man (in general terms). That’s probably what you should strive to be. You probably want him to make you feel desirable and sexually attractive. You probably want him to turn you on and satisfy you in bed. And you probably want him to act like a gentleman (instead of a sex-crazed animal) when you introduce him to your parents or your boss.
     
    I’ve repeatedly heard women claim that they have to be two opposite things at the same time. It’s not that complicated. Act appropriately for the situation. As the situation changes, so should your behavior.
     
    Fusee said: (#33)
    “As Karl R said one time, a relationship must show signs of progress every three to six months.”
     
    Every three months. It doesn’t have to be much progress, but if you seem to be in the exact same spot that you were three months ago, the relationship has stagnated. It’s time to start a conversation and see if the relationship is going to go anywhere.
     
    (By the way, good memory, Fusee.)
     
    There’s an ebb and flow to relationships, so it’s easy to feel like the relationship is regressing as frequently as it’s progressing if you try to track things on a daily or weekly basis. By looking at the relationship over a three-month span, the ebb and flow averages out, so you can more easily see the progress (or lack of progress).
     
    Cahnie said: (original letter)
    “We have been together for 7 years now. I have wanted to move in and get married since year two.”
     
    There have been studies which looked at the length of courtship and compared it to the likelihood of divorce. Average length courtships (28 months) resulted in the lowest divorce rates. Excessively long or short courtships had much higher divorce rates.
     
    From the Article:
    “[Dr. Ted] Huston has found that the slowest to marry are often the quickest to divorce.”
     
    http://www.sandiegodivorcecenter.com/marriage-success-related-to-how-long-you-dated
     
    Cahnie,
    If you want a long, happy marriage, break up and find someone else.

  5. 215
    Julia

    @Karl R
     
    They are jerks because I say they are jerks. Calling someone a jerk is a matter of opinion, an opinion that I am totally entitled to have. Just like many of the men on here comment on how much they hate the rules that women make for sex, I in turn don’t like men who have rigid rules for sex. As for it being an MRA issue, I’ve sadly spent some time reading MRA forums (mostly when men started negging me and I was totally put off, so I decided to do some research.) Its entirely true that some of the MRA community hold these beliefs, they might not hold both at the same time but they seem to be themes of this community that come up over and over and over. You can choose to believe me or not, you can choose to condescend me (and like every other woman on here) but I have agency over the kind of men I choose to spend time with and the men whom I choose to sleep with. Neither of these group of men will probably spend too much time with or sleep with me.

  6. 216
    Kiki

    Karl R,
    your response to my comment is factually correct, but it seems that you, just like the other guys here, refuse to see why the dual standard is a problem for women. Why should women strive to project an image whereas guys can just be whatever they are? 
     
     

  7. 217
    Kathleen

    Kiki 
    Thank you !
    “Why should women strive to project an image whereas guys can just be whatever they are? ”
    The double standard is not fair. Especially in these times.   Ive now been convinced it is hardwired in men, and my lifetime experience backs that. Ive heard the funny line “women should have plenty of sex, but not too much”…But this double standard for women is real and I take that into account in dating 
    I think what Karl and the Thinker #  193 said is the way it is for men and makes sense to me 
     

  8. 218
    Cat5

    To be said with a British accent like Carey Elwes in the “Princess Bride,” “NSA sex…I don’t believe it exists.”
     
    In my humble experience and observation — one person is hoping for it to be something more, and the other one is not…regardless of what either of them say to each other or anyone else.

  9. 219
    Chance

    @Kiki
     
    Not angry.  I know I can be very blunt, but nothing I say on here is meant to be personal.  I enjoy the debate, and when I see comments that I don’t believe make any sense, I like to chime in with a challenge, and see what their response is.  Every now and then, I learn something from another person’s perspective, which is a plus.
     
    Regarding the sexual double standard you’ve been discussing:  I think perhaps why it may be so hard for some guys to see it is because they probably don’t think that way, and none (or very few) of their friends do as well.  That’s the case with me.  I don’t care if a woman has never had sex or if she’s had a very lengthy sexual past.  That’s not really important for long-term compatibility.  I don’t particular remember any of my guy friends expressing concern about it either.  Not trying to discount your experience at all…. I don’t doubt that women like you and Kathleen have experienced that in the past.  Maybe it’s a generational thing?  I don’t know how old you are.  I’m only 31, so maybe people from my generation don’t really care that much about that?  Also, I don’t know where you live, so it may vary by geography as well.
     
    It’s probably also worth noting how outliers can influence what we think of as the norm.  I have heard about this double standard for a long time.  I remember a lot of girls complaining about this in college, and perhaps for good reason.  However, I remember a few these same girls saying how they were less attracted to a guy who hadn’t ever had sex or had few sexual partners.  I found the lack of awareness to be flabbergasting.  They were actively participating in the other side of the coin of the double standard that they previously complained about.  If a girl who’s had sex with a lot of guys is a slut, and a girl who hasn’t had any/many partners is chaste, and a guy who’s had sex with a lot of women is is a stud, then a guy who hasn’t had a lot of sexual conquests must be chump, right?  Doesn’t sound like a fair double standard, either, does it?  After hearing just a few girls say that, for some reason it was so easy to think that all girls thought that for a time, but then I realized they were mostly outliers.
     
    Bottom line:  why should a guy ever know how many sexual partners you’ve had?  It’s nobody’s business.  I don’t care how many partners my girlfriend has had in the past, and I’ve never asked.  If any guy asks, tell him to get screwed.

  10. 220
    Chance

    @Sparkling Emerald
     
    I don’t disagree with a word you said.  However, my comment that you responded to had nothing to do with complaining about women who don’t want to give it up.  It was a direct response to a person who was championing NSA sex for women, and basically calling guys jerks for doing the same.  Do I wish that women didn’t have rules relating to NSA sex?  Yes, but I certainly don’t resent them for it and I respect their decision.
     
     
    @Julia
    “They are jerks because I say they are jerks. Calling someone a jerk is a matter of opinion, an opinion that I am totally entitled to have.”
     
    Intelligent response.  You are entitled to your opinion.  However, your recent comments on here indicate that you aren’t thinking in terms of what is fair, but rather that you only want is best for you.
     

  11. 221
    Karl R

    Julia said: (#215)
    “As for it being an MRA issue, I’ve sadly spent some time reading MRA forums (mostly when men started negging me and I was totally put off, so I decided to do some research.)”
     
    “Negging” is a PUA term/tactic. It has nothing to do with MRA. Perhaps you got your acronyms confused? PUAs are also players, so that part makes more sense too.
     
    Julia said: (#215)
    “They are jerks because I say they are jerks. Calling someone a jerk is a matter of opinion, an opinion that I am totally entitled to have.”
     
    You are entitled to have your opinion. But the way you express yourself will change the way others (like the men you’d like to date) perceive you.
     
    If a man claims all his exes are crazy bitches (or a woman claims that all her exes are jackasses), then that man (or woman) is a poor candidate for a relationship … for anyone. If you choose to date that kind of man, he will one day be referring to you as one of the crazy bitches he used to date. (Similarly, the woman’s new boyfriend will end up being referred to as one of the jackasses she used to date.)
     
    Julia said: (#215)
    “I have agency over the kind of men I choose to spend time with and the men whom I choose to sleep with. Neither of these group of men will probably spend too much time with or sleep with me.”
     
    That’s a perfectly healthy attitude. It’s also a much better way to phrase your opinion. You can say that without raising red flags.
     
    Calling them jerks just because you disagree with them, that’s red flag territory.
     
    Kiki said: (#216)
    “it seems that you, just like the other guys here, refuse to see why the dual standard is a problem for women.”
     
    In this case, I think the dual standard is entirely of your own making. My wife has had sex with men without being in an exclusive relationship. I know this for a fact, because we had sex before we were in an exclusive relationship. Furthermore, she has told me that she had sex with other men without being in an exclusive relationship.
     
    She meets the exact same standard I hold for myself.
     
    Kiki asked: (#216)
    “Why should women strive to project an image whereas guys can just be whatever they are?”
     
    You don’t have to strive to project an image. You choose to project an image. I choose not to.
     
    Most women are like you. They choose to project an image. Most men are like me. We choose not to.
     
    Let me give you an example of this difference in outlook. My wife and I had sex during our first week of dating. Several months later, we ended up having this discussion about it:
     
    My wife: “I was mad at myself with having sex with you so soon.”
    Me: “Why?”
    My wife: “I didn’t want you to think I was that kind of girl.”
    Me: “Well, apparently you’re that kind of girl -and- I’m that kind of guy. What’s the big deal?”
     
    So to turn your question around:
    Why do you strive to project an image, when many guys prefer that you be just whatever you are?
     
    Kathleen said: (#217)
    “Ive heard the funny line ‘women should have plenty of sex, but not too much’”
     
    Here’s an easy solution to apply to dating. Don’t discuss how much sex you’ve had.
    http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/should-i-disclose-the-number-of-sexual-partners-ive-had-in-the-past/

  12. 222
    Julia

    @Chance
     
    It is an intelligent response, I have the right to what I think. I don;t need you or any stranger on the internet to tell me how I should think instead. As far as doing what’s best for me. Why wouldn’t I? Should I do what’s worst for me, or what’s just bad for me? I don’t understand your point at all. I believe Evan teaches us women to pay attention to how a man treats us, if a man treats me as something to use I don’t want to be with him. It has nothing to do with me potentially bonding with someone, it has everything to do with not really wanting to waste my time on anyone who is interested only in sex. Men make their intentions pretty clear, which is why I don’t feel the need to ask for commitment to have sex. I have sex when I want to have sex with a man. That’s what’s best for me, if a man has some rigid view of when he believes he deserves to have sex with me, then he loses the chance to do so. Frankly, I don’t know why you find this so offensive.
     
    And for the record, if a man decides I’m a bitch or a prude because I don’t have sex with him on a first date, he has every right to think that (It’s happened before.) Are we really caring about the names people call us?

  13. 223
    Rose

    The only healthy way to me to have sex is as an expression of wanting to share my love with a person who wants to express and share their love for me in a mutually connected way. So anyone who is coming on to me for sex not in these circumstances is not on the same wavelegnth and they are not a match for me.
    Up to others to make their own minds up why they want sex and what circumstances they feel ok with it. And if the person they are choosing to have sex with is on the same wavelegnth and a match.
    There are loads of people out there who I find physically attractive and who find me physically attractive, doesn’t mean I want to have sex with them. Sex is more than a physical act to me. So I am not going to be a match with someone who sees sex as just a physical act. That is why NSA sex would not work for me.
     

  14. 224
    Kiki

    Karl R,
    I like your comment very much this time! So you know exactly what I am talking about, even your own wife was worried that she had sex with you too soon!!!
    The double standars is not my making, or her making, it exists, and it is unfair, and it causes women to engage in all sorts of [irrational] behaviors like trying to create rules when to sleep with a man, whether to diclose/scale down the number of partners she has had, etc.
    Sometimes on this blog I feel like I need to expalin obvious things. I know we all have differences in opinion, but it is a fact that women care much more about how their sexual experience is perceived and judged by others, and by others I mean both men and women.  Also, I would say, as a generalization, that women care more about how they appear to others than men. There are books and articles on the female “desire to be desired” – you may see for yourself on the web if you are curios.
    You are right that we women do not need ALL men to accept us, but just to find a partner to accept us.  We would just prefer, if possible, not to be given bad names during the search and exploration process :-).
     
     

  15. 225
    Julia

    @Karl R #221
    You are entitled to have your opinion. But the way you express yourself will change the way others (like the men you’d like to date) perceive you. If a man claims all his exes are crazy bitches (or a woman claims that all her exes are jackasses), then that man (or woman) is a poor candidate for a relationship … for anyone. If you choose to date that kind of man, he will one day be referring to you as one of the crazy bitches he used to date. (Similarly, the woman’s new boyfriend will end up being referred to as one of the jackasses she used to date.)
     
    I think that’s fine advice and I agree with you. That’s why what I think in my head or express on a blog of a dating coach might be different than what I say on a date. I am also operating under the impression that I am going to meet zero dates from this blog but I digress. When it becomes painfully obvious that a man just wants to bed me (like when he’s asking me to his apartment during drink 2) I politely decline and continue on with the date. I might be thinking “oh this jerk just wants to get laid.” but I still am my best self and take it with grace. There has never been a time when I called a man a jerk on a date. I don’t talk about players or the other men I’ve been out with. This is even after men have said mean things to me for not sleeping with them. So thanks for the advice, I’m sure it might help another woman here but I already follow it. 
     
    And for the record, I don’t talk ill about my exes either. I don’t talk about them much at all. Even if I talk about my controlling and emotionally abusive man I simply say “It was a bad relationship, he wasn’t a great guy but I’ve learned a lot from that relationship which is why I only date good men now :)”

  16. 226
    Kiki

    @Julia 225
    Your comment that you expect to have zero dates from this blog got me laughing hysterically. Yeah, me neither.
    The biggest insult the men here can give you is that you are undatable, and that is so funny! That is the “no wonder you are on a dating blog for single women” line.
    Are you new around here? I am, kind of, but I learnt pretty fast that there are expectations here for political correctness. When talking to male posters, please bear in mind the following:
    1. You may not blame men for making you miserable. It is all your making, until proven the opposite.
    2. If a man has made you miserable, and it is clearly his fault, you have exercised poor judgement to ever having let him to approach you. Still you fault.
    3. If you think a man should pay for dates/be the bread-earner in the house, you are wrong. This is 21 century, at best we split 50:50, at worst – the woman shall pay more. This is the male vindication for ages of disparity in the other direction.
    4. Do not advertise providing blow-jobs on demand before marriage as a viable strategy to attract a mate, unless you seriously intend to continue to do so post marriage. This is really not funny, and triggers people’s traumatic memories that you have no way of knowing about.
    I am sure you could come up with more :-)
     
     
     
     

  17. 227
    Rose

    I don’t feel comfortable going on a date to a pub for a drink in the getting to know each other stage. Or going back to or inviting them back to each others houses.
    Feels better to me if we are both making decisions from a fully conscious aware state, which is not going to happen if alchohol is involved.
    And feels safer to me to keep dates to daytime public places until I have seen them over a period of time and gotten to know their character better.
     
     

  18. 228
    Julia

    @Kiki #226
     
    The paying on dates thing is a real head scratcher. I’ve literally never paid on a first date, I don’t even have time to do a purse grab, every man snatches the check and puts his card down immediately, maybe I am just lucky? As far as the commenters, I’ve been around for awhile, didn’t comment too much until lately. I notice a ganging up mentality from a couple different groups. I like to think I am pretty level headed and I don’t see things in terms of black and white. I am really not dismayed by the men right now because I don’t want a partner like that, so they are someone else’s problem!

  19. 229
    Goldie

    #228 There are different groups of commenters on here? Dammit, once again I am not one of the popular kids. Next I’m going to find out there was a commenters party and I wasn’t invited.
     
    My 2 cents on paying on first dates, dating is a game and this goes double for first dates. I do the reach and he says no way. Both a part of the first-date ritual. I used to set my first dates someplace inexpensive like at coffee shops, so that he can feel manly for buying me food and drink, and not go broke doing so.
     
    I did hear a cautionary tale from a fellow blogger many years ago, way before this site existed. He went on a blind date, and first thing she did was order a $250 bottle of wine. He excused himself to go to the bathroom, left the restaurant through a back door, and drove home. Moral of the story, yes the man pays, but no, he won’t pay $250 for someone he just met.
     
    PS. Ha, I found it. My bad, it was a $225 bottle of wine. Also, apparently there’s more to the story! http://sigcarlfred.blogspot.com/2005/04/saturday-night-date-fiasco.html

  20. 230
    Chance

    @Kiki #226
    You’ve made it abundantly clear that 1.) You wish men weren’t allowed to post on here, and 2.) You really don’t like to hear advice that places responsibility back on you.  I’m sure there are some other forums out there that accommodate your desires.
     
    As far as your list goes of things to keep in mind when interacting with a male, while you were making an attempt at humor, a good deal of it is actually pretty good advice to bear in mind.  We’re all ultimately responsible for our lot in life.  When things don’t work out the way I like in my relationships, it would be easy to place blame on women, but really it is my own fault.  Therefore, I accept responsibility, and adjust accordingly.

  21. 231
    Julia

    @Goldie
     
    Well, I always let a man choose where we are going, practicing my feminine energy :) My ex said something interesting about paying on the first date. I sort of jokingly that women liked men who pay on the first date, he said “of course they do, that’s like saying men like women with big boobs. But seriously, I assume if a woman offers to pay half she isn’t interested in seeing me again.” So it turns out not everyone is the same! If I follow a man’s lead he chooses where to take me, I assume he can afford it if he’s chosen it and if he grabs a check asap and then puts down his card within 10 seconds, it means he wants to pay. I smile and thank him for his generosity.

  22. 232
    Rose

    Fault and responsibilty are not the same thing.
    If a man or woman treats me badly it;s not my fault as until I have been out with him her I don’t know how he is going to treat me.  It is not my fault and I am not responsible for how another person choses to treat me and behave. And most people pretend to be something they are not at first.
    What I am responsible for is doing my best in minimising the risk of putting myself in situations where I can get harmed or treated badly.
    And if I am in a situation where I feel badly treated or abused to take responsibility to do my best to get out of there and away from the person is question. Sometimes this will not be possible.
    I am helpless and have no real control over how others choose to treat me or other people or behave, I can only learn from past experiences and control what I do to the best of my ability and situation I am in.
    For instance it’s not my fault if I get raped, mugged, beaten up, physically, psychologically or verbally abused etc. And it’s nonsense and victim blaming mentality to say otherwise.
    What is my responsibilty as as adult is to do my best to stay in control of my own life and not give my personal power, authority and control over myself to anyone else especially someone who may not have my best interest at heart and not be good for my physical, emotional, spiritial and psychological health and well being.
    So I would say to all the women stay in your personal power and you get to choose if what is being offered is what you want and learn to say and stick to NO if you don’t want what is being offered. You can’t say YES to what you don’t want until you can learn to say NO to what you don’t want. And big red flag if you say NO and someone doesn’t accept it, tries to coerce, manipulate, bully, sweet talk etc. RUNNNNN. As they sure as hell have not got your best interest at heart.
     
     
     

  23. 233
    Goldie

    Julia, I have always had guys ask where it is convenient for me to meet. (except one guy, who picked a place to meet, a grocery store in a bad neighborhood.) So I let him be a perfect gentleman, and give him a name/address of a place not far from my work/home, so I wouldn’t have to do most of the driving. Of course I don’t look him straight in the eye and say, “Gimme that check, I’m paying half”. That would indeed guarantee that there’ll be no second date. I kinda reach for my purse, smile and ask “do you need help with this?” He usually says no. At that point, I also thank him for his generosity. The gist of what you and I are doing, I think, is the same in both cases, to make him feel manly and generous in every way.

  24. 234
    Kiki

    @Chance,
    In you previos comment you also suggested that I am old and provincial vis-a-vis you who are 30 and from a large urban area. So you wish to show the old lady the door? It breaks my heart. 
    Orherwise, I wish that men say useful  things and do not insult women, but that would be too much in your case.
     

  25. 235
    Rose

    Kiki, your power is either in expressing that you find x,y or z insulting and to then disengage. If you don’t engage they are no longer able to connect by using language towards you that you find insulting and will have to find someone else who either doesn’t feel insulted or who is willing to carry on being insulted.
    Or in having a pariadgm shift and learning to step outside the box and not to react in the way we have learned we would see the stupidity of the ‘offensive’ remark and then we would no longer be offended and it wouldn’t bother us. If you then really make this shift and are not offended, the people making remarks don’t get fed and have no power over you. As in don’t feel the TROLL! You starve them of their food as it has now become a non issue to you. We can only be insulted or offended by our own consent. They no longer have any emotional power over you.
    They can no longer have longer have it over you  if you either stop engaging or step outside the box and make that shift.
     
     

  26. 236
    Chance

    Well Kiki, I attempted to make a useful comment by acknowledging your feelings and trying to show things from another perspective.  Also, I surely didn’t intend to insult you by implying that you were old or from a rural area.  I don’t know anything about you.  Perhaps you don’t consider anything that doesn’t fit your worldview to be useful?  

  27. 237
    Karl R

    Kiki, (#226)
    Read what Rose (#232) said about fault and responsibility. She’s spot on.
     
    Blaming men (or women) is pointless. It doesn’t get you any closer to your goal. If you’re in a bad relationship (or on a bad date), then I don’t care who is to blame. If you’re unhappy with your current situation, then it’s your responsibility to change your circumstances.
     
    This blog has a lot of outspoken advocates of people taking personal responsibility for their lives (especially their dating lives). We really don’t have much patience for blame-throwing.

  28. 238
    Kiki

    Karl R,
    I do not disagree with you, so no need to sweat. Also, spare me the so called advocacy and patience – you are just another poster, and I am not even arguing  with you.
     
    Chance,
    not all advice/opinion are created equal. you fail to present yours in a persuasive or respectful way. 
    Rose,
    thanks. I understand what you say most of the time, but you operate with, like you said, a totally different patadigm, so  i dont even know how to relate to you. 

  29. 239
    Rose

    kiki, I get what you are saying.
    I feel frustrated.hhoseI want to help.
    We have no power and no control over how others choose to engage with us.
    You have no power or control over how Chance chooses to speak to you.
    You feel disrespected, I understand that. Chance doesn’t want to change the way he speaks. He doesn’t care.
    You do care how about the way you are spoken to and rightly so. If you carry on engaging with him you are then allowing him to carry on speaking to you in a way that feels bad and disrespectful to you. By doing this you are giving him permission to carry on. This feeds him and gives your power away.
    If being spoken to in a way that feels disrepectful makes you feel bad and the person doing this doesn’t want to change what do you think is the best ACTION is to make you feel respected and good?
    Do you think carrying on talking to the person will make them stop or get them to speak to you differently and get your respect and power back?
    Or do you think dissengaging and choosing to no longer engage with people who speak to you in a way that feels disrespectful and bad will make you feel self respected and good.?

  30. 240
    Kiki

    Rose,
    thanks again. Either way suits me :-). I get the respect and power I need from other sources, thanks again.

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