My Man Has Agreed to Marry Me Just to Make Me Happy. Should I Call Off The Wedding?

My Man Has Agreed to Marry Me Just to Make Me Happy. Should I Call Off Wedding

I’ve been in my relationship for almost 8 years. We’ve lived together for about 5. We finally got engaged last May. It was a total shock to me because he said he’d never get married again. We found a venue, put a down payment, and set a date for July 2015.

On Valentine’s Day, my man got drunk and told me he was drafting a prenup. He said he’s more than willing to give me a good quality of life and take care of me when he dies. He gave me a copy of the prenup and it says that if we ever get divorced, I get nothing-no alimony, nothing!! He put in there that even if he dies that would be the case. And any future assets, even what’s acquired in the marriage, would all be his!

He makes a significantly larger amount of money than I do, and I understand that. What upsets me about this is that he didn’t even make a stipulation that if he does pass before me that I’d stay in our home until I die. He simply said, “you’ll just find another place to live!!”

Last night he asked if I had the prenup looked at so I could make a decision about what I wanted to do – marry him or not. I asked him if this was his way of saying he doesn’t want to get married. He said he’s only getting married to make me happy and that he could care less if he gets married at all. Do I call it off and run or what?

Michele

I feel sorry for you, Michelle.

I understand you love this man.

I understand you put 8 years into this relationship.

On the precipice of going through with your marriage, you’ve looked up and discovered that your future husband is a selfish asshole.

I understand that the entire time you wanted to marry him.

But somewhere along the line, you lost sight of what you really wanted.

At a certain point, it wasn’t about getting happily married.

It was just about getting married.

Not because he consistently makes you happy, but because you love him, you put in 8 years, and you’re afraid to be without him.

And now, on the precipice of going through with your marriage, you’ve looked up and discovered that your future husband is a selfish asshole.

That’s a lot to take.

Listen, there’s nothing wrong with a prenup that states, in the event of a divorce, you exit the relationship with the same assets you had going in.

That’s an entirely different ball of wax than getting nothing after he dies.

Either way, this money thing is really a distraction from the main issue at hand.

Your fiancé doesn’t want to marry you.
He feels he’s being coerced into it against his will.
He will be resentful of you when you go through with it.
He will be resentful of you when times are tough in your marriage.
And you will never feel safe to express yourself within the relationship.

Any time you have a problem, he’ll remind you that he never wanted to be married at all.

Any time you have a problem, you’ll remember that you can’t leave the relationship because he’s financially supporting you and you won’t get anything when you exit.

It just seems to me – based on the fact that an engaged woman is asking this question at all – that this marriage is doomed to fail.

Find a man who wants to marry you – without the drama, without the power play, and without the resentment.

One of my favorite statistics that I frequently cite to clients are about the 3 greatest predictors of divorce:

    1. Getting married too fast – when two people “just know”, most of the time, when the chemistry wears off, they are fundamentally incompatible.

    2. Breaking up and making up – if a relationship is so rocky for the first couple of years, it’s generally not a great sign for the future.

    3. Getting married too slowly – for example, if a guy waits 8 years to propose, it probably means he doesn’t want to get married, doesn’t it?

Don’t become another statistic.

Find a man who wants to marry you – without the drama, without the power play, and without the resentment.

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Comments:

  1. 1
    Skaramouche

    My heart goes out to you, Michele.  If I could give you a big hug, I would.  I rarely use such strong words but “ditch this piece of shit”.  I tried to rationalize his behaviour in many ways: maybe he panicked or maybe his last wife cleaned him out and he is still getting over that hurt.  Ultimately, I came up with nothing.  There is no excuse on earth that can justify such rotten behaviour.  Don’t accept this pity marriage. I don’t know the mechanics of your relationship outside of this issue but reading about this was enough for me.  No man who professes to love his partner would behave this way.  He thinks you’re a gold digger?  Screw him :D.  I can understand his desire to protect himself and while I don’t generally believe in pre-nups, I can also understand that sometimes they can make sense.  He isn’t protecting himself though.  He’s seeing just how badly he can treat you before you run.  I am SO angry on your behalf.  So, he will pay for your upkeep while he is still alive and you can be of service to him but the second he’s dead and cannot reap the benefits anymore, tough luck for you?  What kind of marriage is that?  Ultimately, it’s not about whether or not he should support you for life but about how he communicated his expectations.  Even if you make less than him, I imagine that you intend to contribute to the marriage in other ways that will level the playing field and make you equal partners.  Apparently that has no value to him.  Sometimes it’s not just about the money.

    1. 1.1
      Come on

      GROWN WOMEN should be financially supporting themselves! Are these feminists saying that they want to end patriarchy, yet the majority of women marry expecting financial support and security from a man? That is a business relationship, not a love relationship.  If any of you are entering marriage expecting to be ‘taken care of’ financially, grow up and wake up. It is not 1900 or 1950.  Settling for the fact that he makes more than all of you is why unequal pay continues, and this is why so many women remain little babies all their lives, having daddy first pay for their bills  and provide all their earthly needs, and then getting married and having the husband substitute the part of daddy. All of these dependent women:  Get your own house, pay for it with your own equal-pay job, and take care of yourselves for the rest of your lives!  Stop using a man as a moneymaking ATM and then whine when he mistreats you. Have any of you considered what happens when he loses a job or jobs and you are married to him?  Unless you’ve been under a rock for the last several thousand years, you should have observed that men generally don’t respect people that don’t financially go to work every day for 30-40 years (years, not months)  on a PAYROLL, fighting traffic and 6 am exhaustion to keep a j-o-b. If anyone is going into marriage (male or female) for financial reasons, you have the wrong idea about marriage.

      1. 1.1.1
        ShivaD

        It doesn’t appear you really read or understood the letter – just cherry-picked a few words and turned it into a self-absorbed rant about nothing. You sound so bitter and sexist!! Good luck and god bless any female that deals with that level of bitterness and hatred towards women.

      2. 1.1.2
        Anon Lady

        Marriage is a partnership. If all women did what you say, many men would feel badly. Believe it or not, many men believe in being the “head” of their families. Successful men who marry the right women who they are happy with actually enjoy the role as “head” in the family. They enjoy protecting and providing for their wives and children. Makes them puff out their chests with pride. They receive a lot of validation when they take care of their families.

        However, times have changed. The economy is still poor. Many men feel emasculated just from the economy alone. So many are out of work or in jobs with low pay. Now men and women must adapt. Women must work or at least always be ready to work in case it is necessary. That’s helping your man and helping your relationship.

        If men and women stopped having children, then what you say makes more sense. But children will always be born and a good family unit is needed for their success. We must continue to desire strong families for the sake of the future generations.

        Single women should work at something, not go out looking for a guy to set them up in a lifestyle they aren’t even worthy of. If a woman marries and divorces and she has children, she needs to be able to work for herself and her children.

    2. 1.2
      Come on

      Contribute in other ways? Without being on a payroll, you are on the street in a box (if that) with no roof over your head.  No one cares about these ‘other contributions’ when it comes time to pay the bills! The bill collectors will not care. Love means you have to financially support grown women who can financially support themselves?? NO.  Love  means you each want to help each other. If whoever is making more money does not want to share their money, their belongings,  and their life with someone, don’t get married. I know of women who owned their own houses, paid for with their own hard work on payrolls, and the husband moved in to the wife’s house upon marriage! What year is this? Where are you women finding these men that are so willing to support you financially in marriage for 50+ years?!

      1. 1.2.1
        Anon Lady

        Just remember water finds its own level.

        Smart, successful men look for an “equal.” I went to private school where most students go on to good careers. They all married other professional people who earned good money.

        People with low self esteem take on others who are the same way. I’ve found that physically attractive men who have low self esteem (from other life issues) don’t pursue women. They sit and wait for women to come to them. Usually, the woman is no good. If he works or makes money, she’ll chase him down and he won’t ever say, “No.” Then he is caught up in a bad relationship with a bad woman who takes his money and pushes him around like a little boy. These types of guys get cheated on and go through so many sorrows with the women in their lives.

  2. 2
    Clare

    Michele,

    This pre-nup is his way of saying he doesn’t want to get married. Evan and others may say that he’s a selfish asshole, and I’m not saying he isn’t. But at some point you have to read the writing on the wall. He said he could care less whether he gets married or not. But apparently, actually, he COULD care – he doesn’t want to. And this pre-nup is his way of saying it. He knows you want to get married and somewhere along the line he picked up that it’s what good guys do when they’ve been with the same girl for 8 years. But he’s angry about feeling pressured into it and the pre-nup is passive aggression. Heed the warning signs. Tell him you’re not signing his pre-nup. Either don’t get married or leave. 

    1. 2.1
      Lin

      I agree, my ex did the same to me. He is happily married with children today, 6 years later I ran into him  asked him why, he always knew I wasn’t the one to marry.. I remeber his brother did the same to his 9year GF, he found after his breakup a girl and within the year he married her, thats why I didn’t to wait no longer… and I was right

  3. 3
    Karmic Equation

    If a man says “I love you” AFTER a woman says “I love you” first, that man’s “I love you” has less meaning and is less valuable than if he says it first. That’s why even if I feel it first, I don’t say it until the man says it first. Then you always know he said he because he WANTED to say it, not because he felt pressured it say by your having said it first.
     
    Same goes for marriage. If a guy says he’s only getting married to you because you want it, that’s akin to his saying he only said “I love you” cuz YOU said it first.
     
    Who wants to be loved by that guy? Don’t y’all raise your hands at once.
     
    Dump him. Find a guy who wants to marry you or find a guy you don’t care if you marry or not. Either of those guys are better than this one.

    1. 3.1
      JennLee

      Many guys I know will not say I love you to a woman until she has said it, because the standard advice is that it is like orgasms, if he goes first, she might not get hers.  In the same way, many men feel that they have to let the woman come to the decision that she is in love before he says it.  They believe that if they say it first, she might not fully get there.  I think there is some truth to that, especially if he actually says it well before she is feeling it.  Often guys make the decision quick, if they think they have found the right girl.  So they adopt the reasoning that you just keep it to yourself until she says it first.

      1. 3.1.1
        Karmic Equation

        JennLee,
         
        Did you do a survey? I’m surrounded by guys all the time (cuz I spend a lot of time in pool halls). The marjority of my friends are men. We don’t discuss who says “I love you” first. Not sure where this fits into your average male-female-friend dialogues.
         
        So if you’re reaching back to high school, that doesn’t count.
         
        And I’m going to hazard a guess, that unlike me, you haven’t has as many lovers as I have so that you haven’t had the same opportunities to practice the discipline of not saying “I love you” first.
         
        I’m sure most men want to hear I love you first. And it’s what they expect, because most women can’t contain themselves once they feel it. My suggestion is that if a man loves you, it’s just as difficult for him to contain himself. And waiting until he says it doesn’t lose a woman anything. I feel it gains her a LOT more than if he says it first.
         
        That said, I’m not suggesting that there’s anything wrong with a woman saying it first. But I feel…strongly…that if she can wait until the guy says it first, that the benefits to the relationship are greater than if she says it first 🙂

        1. JennLee

          You have a lot of wisdom to share KE.  I think a difference is also that I am different then most women today because I really don’t care about power.  I don’t feel the need to feel like I am holding all of the cards.  Most women I know obsess over it to some degree, or at a minimum, do care about it.  Some want to hold all the cards, and this dictates how they act in a relationship.
           
          I see them having a sense of feeling in control, but I think it also gets in the way of having a truly close bond.  In effect, there is always a power struggle going on.
           
          What I do is simply pay attention.  I feel pretty confident in judging how a man feels.  Men are more open and direct.  They wear their hearts on their sleeves while we play our cards close to the vest.  This was even verified in some studies.  Men and women were asked to tell both their interest in the other person, and what they believed was the other person’s interest.  The women were on usually right about the man’s interest, while the men were usually wrong about the woman’s interest.
           
          So I just wait until I feel pretty certain that he feels the same way.  The normal response is that his face lights up, and then he says, I love you too.  Only one time did the guy look uncomfortable when I said that.  The relationship didn’t last much longer.

    2. 3.2
      Gabri'el

       Karmic have you or Jennlee, seen the classic Senfield episode where, George says I love you to the girl he is dating and after the second time he says it (because when she didn’t respond he thought she didn’t hear him) she replies, “I heard you the first time”.
       
      I think this is the fear of the average man and woman. Saying I love you to a person who doesn’t feel the same back, so both hold it in waiting for the other to break or they use passive aggressive tactics to get the other person tell them how the feel.
       
      But from what I’m learning on this blog, women feel it’s masculine for the man to take all the risk, the general thought seems to be, if he gets rejected, oh well, that’s part of being a man, I’m worth the risk, I don’t want to get rejected, but I want to have the security/power to reject.
       
      Anyway, Karmic, I think what Jennlee was talking about is something else I’ve learned from the women on this blog. Women take longer then men -on average- to feel strong attraction for a new guy and to fall in love, while we men are visual, and know we are attracted to a women and fall in love quicker. My guess is that Jennlee’s male friends have had this happen to them a couple of times and now fear the awkwardness of telling someone you love them who doesn’t love you back, and the subtle shift in power, from them each holding some cards, to all the power is now hers.
       
      Anyway, as always, I completely agree with you, the OP’s fiancé’ wants to be with her, he was just hurt by his first marriage (maybe financially and emotionally) and she probably made him feel he had to marry her or lose her, so he is begrudgingly marrying her. But it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her.

      1. 3.2.1
        Karmic Equation

        Hi Gabrii’el,
         
        That episode of Seinfeld I haven’t watched. Hopefully it comes on one day when I’m home!
         
        Two dates is WAAAYYY too early by either party to say I love you. What can you really know about a person on two dates? That they’re hot? Sure. That they’re nice? Probably. But that’s about all. I think we can start to feel that the other person is worth loving on date 2, but to “know beyond a reasonable doubt” that the other person is worth spending the rest of your life with on date 2 would mean that you need more experience in both life and love. Can it happen? Sure. But you have to be extremely lucky. I, personally, don’t have that kind of luck. As a friend once said, “If I didn’t have bad luck, I”d have no luck at all.” lol
         
        I’m not sure about other people’s motivations for not saying “I love you” first, I can only speak for myself on this one. I don’t say it because I believe that when a man says it first, he is bound by that love more than if I said it first, because he came to the conclusion himself and wasn’t influenced by anything I said, and it indicates that I had created a relationship where he felt “safe” to say so because he knew that I would handle that profession of love with care and kindness, at the very least.
         
        Don’t get me wrong. I’ve blurted it out unintentionally twice in my life and then clapped my hand over my mouth with eyes wide in disbelief that I’d said it, like I’d uttered the worse of profanities. It really was funny how embarrassed I was to have said it. But both guys handled it with aplomb, both said I love you too. Even though those relationships didn’t work out, I never regretted saying it.
         
        Men are more loyal to their own ideas. My exhusband proposed (well, he actually suggested we elope after 6 weeks of dating, I said no to the elopement, but considered myself engaged at that point. The ring came about 3 months later, the wedding 2 years after that). I was the one who initiated the divorce. It was amicable. After him my next bf said I love you first 4 months in. He still loves me, even though we’ve been broken up for almost 3 years now. Maybe it’s coincidence, but I do believe that they were more loyal to their love of me because they came to that conclusion on their own without my planting any seeds.
         
        I’ve just started dating a new guy. He’s a total gem. Alpha good looks, but sweet and gentle as can be. Likes porn, but not strip clubs. Calls me at least 2x a day. Takes charge when we’re alone, but easy going and let’s me call the shots when we’re out and about. Lives with integrity, though has a reserved relationship with his family. The “nice guy with balls” that Evan always talks about. While we’ve only been dating 2 weeks now, we’ve spent every non-working moment in each other’s company. It’s like we’ve known each other forever, not just 15 days. We’ll have to see if I can stay disciplined with this one 🙂 It’ll be a challenge, that’s for sure, as he’s certainly worth loving. But do I know if I want to spend the rest of my life with him? Not yet. It behooves the both of us to not blurt out anything until we know.

        1. Hellacska

          Dear Karma and JennLee,

           

          I must see it was funny to read your words…Jennlee sounded like me about 2-3 years ago (I am 34 now), after my break-up with ex-fiancé now I’m leaning towards KarmicE.

          It is NOT about holding cards, power or any of that….I always hated the idea to “hurt” the other, in consequence I always picked guys where I could get slightly inferior…..I preferred being in the low end. That made me jump the first kiss and first iloveyou problem, by actually spitting it out. Let’s get over with it – if it’s already there. Make the way for something deeper.

          I agree, it is totally better if the guy says it, and believe me it is not because I’m afraid of any negative reaction – I don’t care about that. But these little things are the milestones of relationship. It gives enormous pride and certainty for the male once the guy can say “I love you”, it is HIS idea, his jump, his adrenaline. Where is the mission, the quest in a situation where you have to “nod” and iloveyou? Nowhere…. Personally I can fall for a guy very fast, shortly after the first night together….it must be something chemical dunno (I must add I haven’t been with a high number of guys, so my heart stayed in a good shape:). I think men need to make these jumps for the future, as with time men to be less invested in the routine of a relationship than women, can handle pressure etc. a lot less…as a result getting them invested, deeply invested plays at the very beginnings…..

          Right now I’m starting to really like – falling for – the guy I am dating….I know he does feel more than me, but it’s been only 2 weeks,…we both restrain ourselves. This time I want it to be him to tell first….no power, no games, just to let him win his quest and get his reward afterwards….as a very expressive and frank person it will take some effort from me:p 🙂

           

  4. 4
    Sunflower

    I’m so sorry Michele.  I know how you’re feeling.  You’ve invested a lot of time into this guy, but I would truly heed Evan’s advice.  You want to get married, which is fine.  However, you want to marry the right guy, and it doesn’t sound like this guy is the right man for you.  Think about your future and possible having children with him.  If he’s not invested 100% in you and your union, he might not be a supportive and committed father. It’s hard enough raising children.  You don’t need to be dealing with the issue of an absent or non-caring father. 

  5. 5
    Ben

    I’m confused about the terms of this pre-nup.  At first it sounds like if he dies while you are still married, you get taken care of (in his will, presumably), but if you divorce, you get nothing, even if he dies without remarrying.

    Then you say that there’s a stipulation that if he dies before you, you don’t get the house (that he has presumably paid for).  Is this if he dies while you’re still married, or if he dies post-divorce? 

    ‘Cause the former would be an asshole move, but the latter makes perfect sense to me.  Why would you be owed a house if you should divorce?

    1. 5.1
      Henriette

      I was confused by the same point, Ben.  Why would she receive anything if he were to die post-divorce?
       
      All pre-nup confusion aside, he’s explicitly stated that he feels no enthusiasm about marrying the letter writer.  She’d be wise to to cut her losses and move on.

    2. 5.2
      Come on

      THANK you. Are all women aware that there is nothing in the marriage contract that says a man must financially support you and provide you a house? When a wife or husband is  unemployed or underemployed  for many years and could never afford that house on their own ? Ha! I don’t think so!

      Why should any grown person be ‘taken care of’? That is something that anyone (spouse or non-spouse) may want to do for someone they love, to the extent that they are able.  It is not a given! I guess the people that show true love are those that marry a poor man or poor woman that owns nothing and has nothing.

       

      1. 5.2.1
        Hellacska

        You make sense but you disregarded many other details….that guys wants to leave NOTHING, in either case – even prostitutes get something if the guy is generous enough – and she added even the asstests they would get DURING marriage would be his:

        He gave me a copy of the prenup and it says that if we ever get divorced, I get nothing-no alimony, nothing!! He put in there that even if he dies that would be the case. And any future assets, even what’s acquired in the marriage, would all be his!

         

        First of all, if he dies, and that poor woman sacrificed 8 years – then who knows how many more – to this guy, washing his underwear, taking his moodswings, maybe she would deserve some tips for that. In case of divorce I would say it is only legal – and the pre-nup doesn’t even mention what if there are kids :o.

        You can make the same kind of argument about paying on a first date. I agree with you, nothing is a given, I am a working women, living on my own…BUT God save us from guys who cannot handle a bill, at least at the beginning. I talked to a guy he told ‘I don’t wanna be pressured to pay, it must be 50-50 if not I consider the woman a gold digger’. I got sooo upset. I am not a gold digger, but almost all the guys I dated earn twice as much as me….it is a fact. Deep in the relationship let’s do 50-50 but c’mon at the beginning?

        I understand your point, in a way I agree. You cannot accept to be fully taken cared of – and I wouldn’t want that either. But I want a man to be man, financial parts included. Galentry, call it what you want….there are parts in a relationship where core values haven’t changed, not even after emancipation….I like if my coat is helped on, door gets opened before me, I am a traditional woman (with a modern twist). I don’t become helpless or a gold digger because I accept some manhood. There are very few areas where a man can be a man today…let’s keep those….

         

    3. 5.3
      Lone Rose

      true, i agree- why would you be owed a house if you should divorce?

  6. 6
    Elizabeth

    Lawyer here. There’s something about Michele’s letter and her descroption of this prenup that doesn’t quite add up. The letter reads as…distracted and filtered through her lense of interpretation. I sense there’s another side to this. And lots of people contract out of spousal support. It’s not an automatic right as a spouse to be financially suppored after a marriage ends. Much depends on the length and circumstances of the marriage. Smiiarly, it’s not unusual for people to want to retain rights after divorce to pre-marital assets, especially if they are substantial. Pre-nups and cohab agreements tend to create a lot of emotion. Anyway, whatever the “truth” is, this relationship doesn’t sound promising on a number of levels.

  7. 7
    Sunny

    Clearly this man doesn’t want to get married. Why in the world did he think he was doing Michele a favor by proposing? I noticed that a lot of men will stay in a relationship that they don’t want to be in and wish that their girlfriends/wives will initiate the break up. Why do men put themselves in this position and drag their girlfriend/wives through it? Don’t they know that they are doing more harm than good?

  8. 8
    Chance

    I have to wonder if there is more to the story.  Is this an older couple, or at least, is the man older?  If so, does he also have children?  That could possibly be the reason why he doesn’t have the desire to subsidize his wife after he dies.  Otherwise, I cannot think of why he would even care who gets what he has after he dies.  If this is the case, I think it’s perfectly understandable, and he is being a good father.  
     
    I believe that, when older people get married who have children from previous marriages, they aren’t responsible for each others’ financial well-being in the event that they are no longer married (through divorce or death).  Just my opinion.
     
    By the way, love the name-calling on the part of some of the commenters (e.g., piece of shit, asshole).  I’m not offended or anything, but it’s interesting how some of you sound like the guys over on the manosphere that you hate so much.

    1. 8.1
      Skaramouche

      😀 fair enough.  I did say that I rarely resort to such language BUT, a man who tells his wife-to-be that “[she] will just find another place to live” deserves that moniker.  This is not a charity case he has taken in…it’s his WIFE.  I’ve never said I hate guys on the manosphere though I probably would if I looked at them closely, hehe.  In any case, I’m certain that they are much less discerning about their name-calling.

      About OP’s man, I did consider those scenarios and I also agree that the letter itself is missing details.  However, I took a couple of key points away.  1) the proposal was a surprise for OP indicating that it was initiated by her man.  2) either he changed his mind after the engagement or just decided to be a jerk re: the pre-nup because everything about it…the contents, the manner in which it was delivered…suggests that it is meant to wound or make her run.  3) if neither of the scenarios from #2 are true this man thinks that his woman is enough of a doormat that she will take this insult and still marry him or meekly agree to not marry but stay with him.  Keeping all of this in mind, he deserves what I called him :D. 

      I’m not arguing about the man’s right to protect himself and his assets but no person, man or woman, should have to put up with this kind of behaviour from those who are supposed to love them.  That’s all.  

      1. 8.1.1
        Come on

        I know many women who have been married for 37+ years, and they have said that they would find another place to live.  That’s common sense and practicality.  If you choose to not work or  don’t make as much as your spouse, don’t expect to stay in the same house with the same lifestyle alone.

  9. 9
    kevin

    Ok women…sso all the things that u “bring” into the relationship that doesn’t involve money…sex(which always slows down after marriage), cooking, cleaning, companionship, “mmaking a house a home” etc. How does the man continue to enjoy any of these things post divorce…pPlease explain? When are women going to let go of this severance package idea lol…how about this…can we have sex once every 2 weeks post divorce…if can agree with that then we might hqve something. 

  10. 10
    kevin

    Evan I am convinced you are woman…I m pretty sure u block mens comments all the time keep your female audience happy and the money rolling in. I can understand if the issue was about being obscene but its not, its just you allowing women to live in their fantasy world…iit is obvious that this particular marriage would end in divorce,  so why should there be a possibility of her getting anything. 

    1. 10.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      Kevin, I am convinced you have the inability to step into someone else’s shoes.

      If the man doesn’t want to marry his girlfriend, he should dump her – not write a clause into an onerous contract that forbids her from collecting on his estate even if they’ve been happily married for 30 years.

      So my advice to the OP was to dump him instead; his lack of empathy, his lack of generosity, and his lack of desire for commitment renders him a bad husband.

      Which is what any reasonable person’s advice would be to a woman who asked this question if he was trying to help her.

      1. 10.1.1
        Laura

        Amen. And Kevin, it’s ok to be jealous of Evan’s skills, success, and charm, but please taking a writing lesson and a tip from a female -that type of bashing is a personality trait and quite frankly, it’s unattractive.

    2. 10.2
      Gabri'el

      I read comments like yours a lot Kevin in the comments sections on many of the blog post, and it always leads me to believe that the person who wrote it knows of a couple of Evan’s post, but isn’t a true weekly reader of his blog.
       
      Take if from someone who’s read them all, Evan gets accused from women all the time of only looking out for the men, he get accused all the time from men of only looking out for women. If you stick around this blog long enough, you’ll surely see a women screaming at him for having the agenda of trying to teach women to be Stepford wives.

    3. 10.3
      LilyAnn

      If he saw this marriage as a guaranteed failure than why didn’t he just not propose? You’re the one living in fantasy land if you think that this is the smart way of handling things. Men like you think you don’t cause any drama and oh so logical when really you initiates the bullshit. 

  11. 11
    D

    Its awful that the prenup says she doesn’t get anything even in the event of his death – is he giving it away to charity then? Does it say what happens to his assets, or does it mention a separate Will that addresses that event? It is his way of saying I really don’t want to marry you, clearly.
    But it feels like many folks posting above don’t seem to like the idea of a prenup in general. I know I had one and it truly saved me from being ripped to shreds by a BPD-afflicted ex. I think it works and protects both parties when drafted properly.
    The OP doesn’t say whether she tried to discuss making some changes in the prenup.

  12. 12
    Morgan Hill

    Look, the OP has been with “her man” for almost 8 years, and if he is truly as terrible as she describes, why would she stay in the relationship for all those years? Maybe putting up with it for an eventual payoff? 
    I call Bravo Sierra on her claim that it was a total shock to her that they finally got engaged last May. I think it is more like she has been pestering him long enough to marry her, and this is his way of getting back to her by forcing the issue to see if she would still want to get married when there is no financial gain for her.  
    Why is the OP so entitled to alimony should they get divorced? Given most states allow no fault divorce, so if OP fucks other men and files for divorce, she will get paid by her cockold wealthy husband? And why is it so unreasonable that any future assets, even acquired in the marriage, would all be his provided that the assets are solely paid for with his funds? One of the very reasons couples enter into a prenup is to allow them not to commingle their assets. It takes away an unsavory motive to get married when there is a sizable gap of wealth between the couple.
     
    I think it is a given that this guy is not all that happy to marry the OP. It is a blatant lack of critical thinking on EMK’s part to immediate declare this guy a selfish asshole. There has to be more to the story than what the OP stated.

  13. 13
    Skaramouche

    Just to clarify something here because everyone seems to be talking around the same incorrect point, possibly stemming from my first post in which I was perhaps not clear.  I don’t think anyone is saying that OP should get any proceeds should they divorce.  Even she isn’t saying that.  We are all agreed that post divorce, OP gets nothing.

    The shocker was that he would expect her to find a new residence should he pass on before her WHILE THEY WERE STILL MARRIED.  She clearly states “stay in OUR home”.  If they were divorced when he died, it would not be their home…it would be his.

    Moreover, this isn’t about who gets what.  It is about the callous manner in which the pre-nup was presented.  Even when dealing with the worst gold digger, I would say that behaving in this fashion reflects badly on the man, regardless of the virtues (or lack thereof) of the woman.  So unless OP is outright lying or has made up some of the things in her letter, her guy is still all kinds of jerk.  Any omissions on her part such as haranguing him about marriage, etc. might speak badly about her own character but that does nothing to redeem his actions.  Don’t like the haranguing?  Don’t want to marry her?  Leave!  It’s better than playing these cat and mouse games.

    1. 13.1
      Morgan Hill

      OP – “He gave me a copy of the prenup and it says that if we ever get divorced, I get nothing-no alimony, nothing!!”
      You – “I don’t think anyone is saying that OP should get any proceeds should they divorce.  Even she isn’t saying that.” 
      Huh???
      You “Moreover, this isn’t about who gets what.”
      Me “A prenup is all about who gets what. It is designed to weed out the gold-diggers.”
      You – “Don’t want to marry her?  Leave!”
      Me – “Don’t want to marry him?  Leave!”
       
      Neither of them is of virtue. Please spare me the selective umbrage.  

      1. 13.1.1
        Skaramouche

        Did you actually read the entire post?  Or just er…”selective” bits of it? 😉

        While we’re on the quoting bus, here is one for you:
        >> He makes a significantly larger amount of money than I do, and I understand that. What upsets me about this is that he didn’t even make a stipulation that if he does pass before me that I’d stay in our home until I die. He simply said, “you’ll just find another place to live!!” 

        Let’s start again since you seem to have wilfully interpreted my post.  Based on the above quote, she “understands” that she will get nothing post divorce.  Whether she is happy about it is another question and outside the scope of this discussion.  Point is that she acknowledges his right to dictate what will happen to his earnings and stuff purchased with them if they divorce.  What shocks her (and me) is the fact that he’s okay with making her homeless should he expire while still married to her.

        Next, the problem at the root of this post is not “who gets what”.  It is his attitude. I thought that was clear but apparently not so I’ll say it again: his attitude is the problem, not the fact that he wants a prenup.  I understand what a pre-nup is for and I also know that there are classy and mature ways of discussing one when deemed necessary.  Also, this is generally done when considering marriage, not on a drunk whim after you’ve been engaged, booked a venue and put down a deposit.  So this leads me to believe that it isn’t really about the pre-nup at all but about creating a toxic environment.  Which leads to the next point…

        Yes, the “leave” applies to both of them but again, you misinterpret.  “Leave” is exactly what she should do.  However, my reference to “leave” in the post above was to his behaviour.  All signs point to the fact that he doesn’t want to marry her.  Instead of doing something about it, he chooses the jerk route.

        Sure, perhaps neither of them is of virtue.  I don’t know for sure but I’m willing to grant that it might be the case.  But only one of them is an established *expletive*. 

        1. Morgan Hill

          Nah.  After you gave her a big hug, the OP should be placed in the victim protection program. This guy is such an asshole and a piece of shit. 

  14. 14
    Katt

    Oh dear! I understand you have 8 years of sunk costs in this a**hole but that’s way better than 10 or 20 with a couple of kids. No matter what happens he gets everything and you get nothing even if you’ve contributed to a large extent to the household over the next 25/35 or so years together. 
    I sincerely hope you kick this loser to the curb pronto. This is a recipe for disaster if ever I saw one coming.
    i know it won’t be easy and you may think you love him but after that pre-nup you have to seriously wonder how he actually feels about you and all I can say is it’s not love baby.  
    I don’t know how old you are but if you wanted to get married why did you stay with a guy who told you he never wanted to get married again? When a man tells you something, believe him.
    If you stay with this loser, unfortunately you will get the shitty end of the stick for the rest of your time together.
    and do something about your self esteem and confidence because you haven’t had an equal say in this relationship from day one. 
     

  15. 15
    Karmic Equation

    I love Facebook memes. A friend just shared this one today, which I thought was apropos to this topic:
    The heart that’s meant to love you will fight for you when you want to give up, pick you up when you’re feeling down, and will give their smile when it’s hard for you to find yours. They will never get strength from seeing you weak, power from seeing you hurt, or joy from seeing you cry. The heart that’s meant to love you wants to see the BEST YOU, not the the hurt you! Never forget this,
    ~Trent Shelton

  16. 16
    Joe

    I agree that the guy sounds like an asshole, but I also agree that we don’t have the whole picture here.  This guy has been married before…it’s not his first rodeo.  Maybe he has good reasons for doing what he’s doing.  Maybe he has kids from a previous marriage who he wants to leave his assets to.  Maybe he already owns the house they live in.  If so, why should that be an asset to which the LW is entitled after he dies?  What if (because he makes significantly more than she does) he pays for everything during the marriage–food, vacations, cars, etc.?  If so, she’d be able to strategically invest the entirety of her earnings (or fritter it away, if she chose to).  Would that still be unfair?

    1. 16.1
      Skaramouche

      All of your points are very fair ones and things I wondered myself.  Perhaps he has kids who should get his house?  Sure, that’s possible.  But is it so important that the kids get his house the second he dies?  Can it not be upon her death so that she doesn’t have to arrange for a separate residence in case her husband dies?
      In the scenario that you present, I’d say she was lucky to have a husband who was taking care of all her financial needs.  It would enable her to properly prepare for retirement if she chose.  Even in that scenario though, his behaviour is strange.  It’s less about unfair and more about lack of caring.  To drunkenly announce that you’re going to have a pre-nup drawn up and to say things like “you’ll find somewhere else to live” suggests a callous individual, not one who wants to make sure that all the people in his life are cared for.
      I’m also open to the possibility that she’s lying but there’s no way to ascertain that. 

    2. 16.2
      Morgan Hill

      I also agree the guy sounds like an asshole based on the OP’s account. However, there was nothing stated in the post that the OP even loved this guy. All we can tell is the OP has hung in there for almost 8 years and they finally got engaged last May. That was nothing to indicate the existence of a loving relationship. It was all of the OP’s rant on the prenup.
      She specifically expressed her umbrage on getting no alimony if they ever get divorced, having no claim on any future assets acquired by him in the course of the marriage, and if he dies before her, she won’t get to stay in his house for as long as she is alive.
      In the case where there is a huge disparity of wealth between the couple, prenups written in such terms are actually quite ubiquitous. One of the very reasons couples enter into a prenup is to allow them not to commingle their assets unless they choose to, but such prenups will not prevent them to acquire any marital assets in joint ownership either. If the wife gets to stay in his house for as long as she is alive after he dies, it will be problematic for closing the estate. Granted, if the guy indeed insists that his wife has to get out of his house soon as he dies, he is despicable beyond being an asshole. Maybe the terms can be more reasonably written like she gets to stay if she so chooses for up two years and she will get a portion of the proceeds from the sales of the house to help her to find a place to live.      
      I suspect the harsh exchanges between the OP and “her man” on the prenup is not because he was drunk yakking. It was an intentional tit-for-tat. She has probably been pestering him long enough to marry her, and he is getting back at her by forcing the issue to see if she would still want to get married when there is no financial gain for her.  
       
      I don’t think there is any disagreement among all the comment posters that this is not going to be a happy union if they do proceed to marry. Though I don’t think there would be all these vitriolic and gratuitous name callings if the genders were reversed. A show of much lacking in critical thinking or pandering or both. 

      1. 16.2.1
        Evan Marc Katz

        Nope. If you check my old posts, I’m just as harsh on selfish, tone-deaf women as I am on selfish, tone-deaf men.

        1. Chance

          You’ve always been fair.  I think the two sets of rules show themselves in the comments section.  Call a woman a selfish bitch in one of your blog posts, and watch the ladies flock to the comments section like the salmon of Capistrano.

        2. Sylvie

          👍🏻👍🏻

  17. 17
    Gabri'el

    WOW! Just wow! There is so much to say on this subject… Well not the subject but the commenters reactions, calling this guy everything from a A-hole, to a loser, that she should run from.
     
    Did the OP say that he was cheating on her??? NO!
     
    Did the OP say that he was mistreating her??? NO!
     
    Did the OP say he lied to her when they first dated saying he wants to some day get married??? NO!
     
    Did she say he doesn’t love her??? NO!
     
    Did she say he loves making her feel inferior because of his money??? NO!
     
    Did she at least say, without marriage he said he didn’t want to be with me until he dies??? NO!
     
    Wait! Wait! Wait! You have commenters calling this man everything from A-hole to loser, the same posters who, in the post about wealthy women not wanting to remarry, because of fear of losing their money, Not one of these female commenters stood up and said anything about those wealthy women being selfish, choosing money over marriage.
     
    So what the HELL did Michele, the OP say??? (Second sentence of the second paragraph) “He said he’s more than willing to give me a good quality of life and take care of me when he dies.
     
    Wait! What??? He said the will give her enough to take care of her when he dies??? Which means, she’ll have enough to buy her own house??? And live off the money he left for her??? It’s almost as if she doesn’t want to live a good quality life after he dies, she wants it all…
     
    Naaa! What am I saying, that can’t be true… After all, every commenters KNOWS, he is a loser and A-hole, she should run from him fast, the horrible way he is treating her, not giving her all his money, the blog about wealthy women not getting remarried was okay because it was for women, and they shouldn’t risk their money… Duh!!! And what was Chance talking about??? Of course these commenters are nothing like the guys from manosphere, wanting certain rights for one gender and not the other…. This is total different… (^_^)

  18. 18
    JennLee

    Does anyone think it is possible that he was just testing her?  I used to have very negative feelings about prenups until a friend asked his fiancee, also my friend, to sign a prenup.  She declined and broke off the engagement.  Me, my boyfriend at the time, and our friend were talking about it and I asked him why he wanted her to sign one.  He said there were 3 reasons.  Fairness was the first reason.  He felt that it was fair to know that what was his going in, would still be his if they got divorced, and he didn’t think it would be fair to make him support her if she chose to get a divorce.  Also, it would make a divorce far less painful if most contentious things were already settled in a prenup.  So that covers the first two reasons, but the most important reasons, he said, was that if she would have signed it, he would know that she wanted to marry him because she loved him, not for what he had and could give him.  I had a paradigm shift when he said that.  I totally got it.  This was the male version of a woman not wanting to be loved for her big boobs and tight ass.  We want to know that we are loved for our heart and mind.  We know the man loves our good looks, but we want him to love us for who we are even more.  This is what he wanted.
     
    So I look at the fact that the man in the OP is in no hurry to get married, and then he goes way overboard in his demands in his prenup.  It makes me wonder if his goal was to see if she would sign it, so he would be sure that she really loves him.
     
    If his intention was to just screw her out of a fair settlement, then he is just a selfish jerk.  The problem is that only he knows what his intentions were.

    1. 18.1
      Evan Marc Katz

      You don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who “tests” you.

      Plus, it’s absurd to suggest that this guy isn’t sure she really loves him after 8 years.

      There are a lot better ways of being a golddigger than to stay in a relationship for a decade without a ring.

      The guy doesn’t want to marry her and doesn’t want to take care of her in the event of his death. He may be a nice guy to his friends, a sweet brother and uncle, and walk old ladies across the street, but he sure ain’t husband material.

      1. 18.1.1
        MikeTO

        It’s easier to gold dig with a guy when staying in a relationship instead of looking for new men to mooch off.

  19. 19
    Paula

    This guy sounds like a jerk and is definitely being passive aggressive. If he dies and she can’t get the house, who gets it? Does he have children? If he does, then I can see how he’d want to protect his own biological children more but still if I were him, I’d want it to be equally distributed. I’d run from this situation

  20. 20
    Samantha

    I don’t know.  Regardless of his intentions to take care of her or not, the entire idea of prenups makes me uncomfortable.  And it has nothing to do with wanting my spouse’s money/assets.  I could truly care less about the money.  To me, it’s more about the message it sends.  My fiance and I discussed the notion of prenups, and decided that they were not for us.  The reason was because we agreed that if we enter a marriage with the assumption that divorce is an option–so much so that we are discussing arrangements for said divorce, what is the point of getting married?  I’m not entirely old fashioned, and I know that people can change and things happen, but I’m still not going to marry someone if divorce is that accessible for either of us.  I think many people view love and marriage as something disposable, and it bothers me personally.  But again, this is just my opinion.  I am not knocking those who are for prenups.  They just go against my personal marriage world view.  But I definitely understand why many people want them.

  21. 21
    Scribbler

    Awww, poor little princess isn’t going to get her payday, how terrible! Hey – I thought you loved this guy? What he’s saying is that he’s willing to take care of you while you are with him. That is very generous – he has no obligation in this world to provide a thing to you. What he has done is remove all incentive for you to leave him or kill him – that’s what you miss. I bet that he was actually testing you – and you failed. Lol, you define “money grubbing bitch” to a tee. Looks like this guy just dodged a bullet, good for him. 

    1. 21.1
      butterduck

      Scribbler, if he had no such obligation there wouldn’t be a need for a prenup, would there? A husband can cut his wife out of the will entirely, but in many states, the widow can have the will set aside so that she can get a portion of the estate.
      The guy was supposed to love her too, right? He just didn’t want to marry her and decided to be a passive-aggressive dick about it.  

    2. 21.2
      Lin

      you’re wrong.. when you marry you both have the obligation to provide
      it is also the law … If you don’t want to, stay single

  22. 22
    butterduck

    I wouldn’t stay with any guy for 8 years with no ring, let alone live with him. But I always knew that I wanted to get married and at some point,  if the guy didn’t want that I took him at his word and moved on. I spend a lot of time on a relationship-oriented website and I am always dismayed by women who want to get married but, 12 years and 3 kids later, find themselves no closer to marriage than when they started out, and now they’re desperate because their partners have left them and the have absolutely no rights beyond child support. It’s sad, but what the hell were they thinking?

  23. 23
    kevin

    You perfectly explained my point scribbler, he definitely saved himself some money down the line.

  24. 24
    M

     “And any future assets, even what’s acquired in the marriage, would all be his!”  That’s not possible in a community property state.  Perhaps you misunderstood the prenup. He can keep the 1/2 that’s his.  You can keep the 1/2 that’s yours in a community property state.  

    The other thing that bothered me about your question is that you seem to not want to marry him if he doesn’t give you any financial benefit after he dies or if you divorce. What do you bring to the marriage financially?  I think men are rightly wary about marriage these days because of the warped family laws that make men slaves to their ex-wives for life in terms of alimony. If you don’t get alimony, you don’t want the marriage?  Hmmm…I’m a woman and I wouldn’t want to pay alimony to my ex-husband either.  My suggestion for my own daughter would be to be independent financially, and never to depend on another person for money.  

  25. 25
    Lisa

    I agree this guy is a jerk and he is punishing you via this prenup for what he sees as you forcing him to marry you and he may not even know he’s doing that.  I also agree that unless these eight years you are counting involve in part you being in high school that being together for that long is generally a predictor for marriage fail unless both parties truly do not want to get married.  Now let’s get to the legal aspect of this in case you actually do decide to sign this.  First get a lawyer of your own.  I’m sure he has one draft it but you must have your own.  In most states it’s not even valid if you do not have counsel.  Second in most states you are not getting any alimony at least not for very long.  You may get something temporary so waiving that is not a huge deal and it is a common waiver.  I’d also be fine with him taking with him whatever he brought into the marriage and that’s it.  Don’t sign the rest.

  26. 26
    Susan

    Read this last night and woke up thinking about it so had to comment. After 2 failed marriages I can confidently tell this poor woman to run…not walk away from this guy. Having this guy on your arm will be like carrying around a knock off designer bag….it may look real from the outside but all along you know it’s a fake. From a distance some may think it’s the real deal while others can  see right off the bat it’s a fake. Why not save up for the real deal so when you are carrying that bag around you feel proud and confident. Kick that knock off bastrd to the curb and find yourself a real husband. It may take more time but God it will be soooo worth it! Good Luck!

  27. 27
    venida deligero

    maybe the guy not love her ,he just pitty her

  28. 28
    Robert

    I am very sorry for the ops situation. That is so terrible. I wish her peace. But ultimately, I feel as if the whole concept of marriage has been degraded via stacked bias against a male in the family court system (oxymoron). Women leaving men for no apparent reason or cheating on their partners with a prenuptial that is thrown out in court…. which the courts allot half of all acquired assets, no matter the condition — in a society that has supposedly been equal since 1963.

    This will only push men further away from marriage. I’m am into contemporary political sociology and government/ economics… Marriage in and of itself was slighted, without even asking men or guiding men into a supportive role. Instead, women chose to do so, without the consideration of how a man’s roles may transition, at the man’s expense. This is nothing new to society.

  29. 29
    ALAN

    Hey everyone

    Looks to me like all you guys are discussing some kind of big time business deal, not a relationship!

    What a materialistic paranoid authoritarian society we live in.  Primitive society.

    All this jabber and hoop jaw concerns nothing other than a reductionist materialist attitude towards relationships.  Relationships have now totally descended to the level of business deals. Marriages and relationships are now made, and 70% usually statistically broken, at the county court house. Not in Heaven any more.

    Good luck business people!

  30. 30
    Karen Hartmann

     
    From loneliness to laughter
     

     
    What if we have it all upside down? If you find out that all your trying to be a better person, be happier, find the right relationship or relax more is actually the very thing which is in the way of what you are looking for? What if your loneliness is gone the moment you stop trying to get rid of it?
     

     
    Sounds crazy?
     

     
    It isn’t. I have been in and out of relationships all my life. Happy or not so happy. And always there was this lingering fear of being left, the fear of being lonely. You know it? Probably you do.
     

     
    Truth is that 99% of us fearing being alone. We do all we can to avoid it. We make plans, we work, we do yoga, we fall in love, we start a new „thing“, we are constantly on the go – even when we „try to relax“. We dread this moment of „nothing to do“.
     

     
    We fear this moment and yet, most of us do not know what will happen when we do a full stop. We just never did. We believe that we will not be happy or feel lonely when „nothing is happening“. Thing is, we do not know. As most of us have never really stopped.
     

     
    I have been running away from what I was craving the most: to be at peace: by trying (to be at peace). And trying harder when it did not work. Everyone is telling us what to do, how to not feel lonely, how to be relaxed and happy. So we try another mindfulness meditation and wonder why it only works with so much effort. And why with the next thing your husband says to you – you are back to your old stressed self.
     

     
    We are tried out. So, here is my wisdom of the day: don’t try. And most importantly, do not try to not try. Get it? If not, then try a bit harder.
     

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