Jul03

Men Always Give Me Their Phone Numbers But I Don’t Want to Call Them First!

08:00 am on Jul 3rd 2008 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

44 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Online Dating Sites, Reviews & News, Sex & Relationship Advice

44 Responses to “Men Always Give Me Their Phone Numbers But I Don’t Want to Call Them First!”

1. USA Local Dating Blog » Men Always Give Me Their Phone Numbers But I Don’t Want to Call … Jul 3rd 2008 at 09:37 am 1

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2. Ben Jul 3rd 2008 at 10:10 am 2

   I usually do end up offering my number first, but it’s not because i’m wanting her to call me first.

   Per Evan’s book, you should really ask the woman out in the third/fourth email. As part of this ‘ask-out’, i include my phone number – she then usually offers hers in response. I suppose i could just leave it out, and wait for her to offer her number in response.

3. Alan Jul 3rd 2008 at 10:21 am 3

   Here’s my counter-question, Evan. I agree that guys should call first. However, it’s my guess that many women are hesitant to give out their phone number to someone they meet online. I feel that a guy offering his number first is a good faith gesture to try and elicit her phone number in return. If phrased well, I’m sure it can come off as a nice gesture:

   “My cell is ###-###-####. I’d like to continue our conversation over the phone. What’s a good time to call you?”

   Not sure if that’s it, but it’s all I’ve got on short notice (and admittedly I’m not very suave).

   What do you think of the above? Am I way off base? Did I miss something? Is it an exception? Etc.

4. Steve Jul 3rd 2008 at 10:31 am 4

   
   The fact is: women don’t want to have to make the first move. And you know what guys?
   

   Very true .

   It is will also be true that the small number of women who are exceptions to this rule will write in saying that they do not mind taking the initiative.

5. Rachael Jul 3rd 2008 at 10:58 am 5

   Sounds like that’s my cue.

   While it’s true that women are mostly uncomfortable with making the first move, I can’t agree with Evan that “they shouldn’t have to”. It strikes me as unfair that men have to make the first “real” moves – phone calls, ask-outs, pay for first dates, the works.

   But here’s the thing – it doesn’t matter if I think it’s unfair, because even if Evan’s wrong that we “shouldn’t have to” do it, he’s dead on that most of the time, we won’t. Most women have a lot of options when they’re dating, especially online dating, so we can afford to bypass men who expect us to call them.

   All that said, back when I was still dating (I’m one of those annoying married women who read this blog to get insight into the typical male mind), if I wanted a guy badly enough, I’d make the first move. I married a man with whom I made the first move. I asked HIM out, I paid (it was his birthday)…technically speaking, I even asked him to marry me (though he chooses to remember that he did the asking).

   But when I was an online dater? I never made the first move. I was filtering through enough e-mails every week not to have to.

   So I guess it comes down, as always, to practicality – are you willing to forego all the women who are going to be unwilling to call you first?

6. Janice Jul 3rd 2008 at 11:18 am 6

   Thanks so much for this post, Evan! As a single 50 yr young lady, I also encounter the same situation. But, I AM old-fashioned, and will never be the first to call! Thanks for reassuring us that we should not be expected to reply to a phone number!

7. Janice Jul 3rd 2008 at 11:24 am 7

   Alan:

   For me personally, that would work. I am not comfortable giving out my number, and handling the situation as you have suggested would put me at ease. Don’t sell yourself short – you’re more savy than you think!

8. BeenThruTheWars Jul 3rd 2008 at 12:02 pm 8

   Re: Rachel’s comment (5): Lots and lots of things in life are unfair. But you can either accept that “what is, is” and learn to work within the paradigm toward success — or you can fight it and spend lots of time applying cold compresses to that bruised head you’ve been beating against the wall.

   I’m also married (2.5 years on July 1). When I was dating, whenever I would make the first move, it would get me laid but never brought the kind of quality connection or romantic relationship I was looking for. Once I learned the truth about male/female dating dynamics, accepted and embraced it, and let the man be the man while I focused on being the girl, I had far more success. My now-husband led the way strongly, all the way, from start to finish. I never had to wonder “where is our relationship headed?” because he never left any doubt that he was seriously interested. I just sat back and purred through our entire courtship. Heaven.

   (Unsolicited plug for Evan: my husband also still quotes from my profile, almost four years after first seeing it! Take Evan up on his profile writing services — you will never be sorry you spent the money.)

   I am a dating coach myself. Many of the women I work with ask, well, why CAN’T I call him first? Why can’t I ask him out? I say, go ahead! Nothing’s stopping you. Have at it, sister. But when you get tired of ouchies and rejection… then give me a call and we’ll discuss another approach that really works.

   When I was online dating, I gave the man the benefit of the doubt — that he was offering me his number because he’d been screamed at too many times for “compromising women’s safety” by asking for their numbers. Or else he was genuinely being chivalrous. I would send back a version of Evan’s letter that didn’t spell out an exact time to catch me, but warmly offered my own number in return. No followup call from the guy? No date. His loss. Next!

   And trust me… once you learn to revel in the abundance of the universe, rather than expect your prospects to be limited, you will realize there is always a new prospect waiting just around the corner.

9. Kim Jul 3rd 2008 at 12:11 pm 9

   I’m with Alan on this one. I’m new to online dating, and everyone (including my 13yo daughter) is warning me to be careful and safe. So I don’t give out my number first. If the guy doesn’t offer his, and the emailing back and forth is getting old, I ask if he minds if I call him (explaining my safety measures) and I ask for his number. So far no one has minded it, and they seem to appreciate my position. There’s nothing wrong with us gals being careful…and even though I trust Evan’s advice that men don’t like women to make the first move, the singles’ blogs that I read have plenty of men saying, “Please, ladies! Feel free to make the first move!” It takes some of the pressure off of them, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re lazy or not willing to pursue someone. I’m a traditional gal, but if I see someone I like, why should I have to wait for him to make the first move? If he doesn’t like me asking for his number, no worries and I move on. Sounds pretty simple to me.

10. Karl R Jul 3rd 2008 at 12:13 pm 10

    Evan,

    Like Alan, I generally extend my phone number as a gesture of good faith. In my (limited) experience, I’ll usually get her phone number in the next e-mail. Since her phone number was the goal, this is more than acceptable to me. I then call her within 48 hours.

    Instead of phrasing anything, I just tack my phone number on after my “signature” (which is how I sometimes respond to ordinary e-mails).

    What is your opinion on a man giving his phone number with the objective of receiving hers?

11. Ben Jul 3rd 2008 at 12:28 pm 11

    Alan’s template is exactly what I was trying to convey, he just said it better.

    It just seems appropriate to offer my number when asking a woman out over email, even if i don’t really expect them to phone first.

12. xpuff Jul 3rd 2008 at 12:40 pm 12

    I’m confused by this post–if we’re talking about online dating, why is calling first even an issue? I have never called a guy I met via online dating before the date. In most instances we arrange to meet in person via email, and the guy offers his phone number in case I get lost/am late/can’t find him, and I return with my number for the same reasons.

    I suppose I called my now-boyfriend first. I was running less than five minutes late but did not want him to sit there and wonder if he was being stood up, so I called him to say I’d just found parking and was walking to the restaurant. Even a few minutes can seem like an eternity when waiting on a first date right?

    Is it unusual not to want to talk on the phone? I never want to talk on the phone to my boyfriend when we’re in the relationship. I never want to talk on the phone prior to dating. Is this a generation thing? I’m 27, but spend much more time communicating with my SO via IM or email.

13. Evan Marc Katz Jul 3rd 2008 at 12:47 pm 13

    Fact: Women want to be asked out.
    Fact: The most effective way to ask a woman out is by making her comfortable.
    Fact: She’s going to me more comfortable giving you her number after a handful of emails.
    Fact: She’s going to be more receptive to meeting you for a date after a handful of phone calls.

    So, guys, while it’s really nice to be respectful and concerned for her safety, why assume that she’s afraid of giving out her number? The BEST thing you can do is gain her trust by email, ask for HER phone number, CALL to get to know her, and THEN ask her out.

    All this correspondence like “Hi, you’re attractive. Here’s my number, call me so we could meet at Starbucks!” is just blind date bullshit. Make a woman feel special and comfortable and you’ll get whatever date you want. Offer a phone number to a stranger and don’t be surprised when she doesn’t call.

    And yes, desiring to get to know someone by phone as opposed to text IS generational. Kids these days…

14. Lance Jul 3rd 2008 at 12:49 pm 14

    I’m a big proponent of the guy making the first move, even online. I like the fact that the guy asking for the number and calling first is a GESTURE…I mean, it says something about what he’s after, his interest level, and his confidence.

    I’ve had it go both ways plenty of times, where she tacks on her number and says something to the effect of “really enjoyed the convo, give me call if you want to hang out.” I’ve done the same thing, where I’ll be meeting friends out and I’ll just write in my last email, hey, here’s my number, shoot me a text if you’re out and let’s meet for a drink. The girls I usually communicate with online are girls that go out to the bars anyway on Friday and Saturday, so this sometimes works. It’s great too, because it takes the pressure off of a date.

    With that being said, I prefer to make the first call.

15. Steve Jul 3rd 2008 at 01:01 pm 15

    I never thought to offer my phone number first as a sign of good faith that I respect the woman’s concerns about safety. I guess like xpuffs point it is a generational thing. These days police records are online. When I sense interest I just text the URL for my parole profile to the woman. She can see that I served my time, have been out on the streets for years without incidence, that I am on medication and that I have been through extensive therapy for stalking. The ankle bracelet that the police use to track my whereabouts is just an extra bonus. By the time all of these bases are covered my phone number gets forgotten about

16. Alan Jul 3rd 2008 at 01:25 pm 16

    Evan, I’m asking about giving her my number with the intent, as explicitly stated, of calling her. That is, implicitly or explicitly asking for her number with the understanding that I will call her, but giving her my number: to show I’m serious, to show I’m credible, to back up my request for her number (share and share alike), to give her the chance of calling me if that’s what would make her most comfortable (if she doesn’t want to give me her phone number, for example).

    Similar to what you suggest, it’s designed to make her feel more comfortable and more at ease. I just want to get your take on it.

    And I guess that non-phone thing is generational. I wouldn’t even think of texting a conversation with someone I’ve never met (i.e., someone who isn’t already a friend).

17. Evan Marc Katz Jul 3rd 2008 at 02:01 pm 17

    I understand your motives, Alan. I just don’t see the advantage of offering your number.

    Ask for hers, call her, and there’s nothing for anyone to think about.

    If she balks for safety reasons, THEN you give your number.

    But giving your number first makes LOTS of women uncomfortable precisely because they DON’T want to make the first move…

18. Glenda Jul 3rd 2008 at 02:31 pm 18

    I find it interesting that there’s so much difficulty in deciding how to approach a woman about the first call. All of the men I dated whom I have met online have been very respectful and asked me, after exchanging a various number of emails, whether I felt comfortable talking on the phone. And when I said yes, they then all asked whether they preferred if they called me or if I called them, and a time was prearranged at my convenience. Simple, really!

    And even though eHarmony’s safety tips suggest that women may prefer that they place the call to the man, so that they don’t have to give out their phone number, with so many people having CallerID, I think that’s pretty irrelevant advice. Like Carol, I prefer to have the man place the first call, to my cell phone, so the number’s not linked to my home address and messages aren’t picked up by my kids.

19. Jeramel Jul 3rd 2008 at 07:33 pm 19

    I think women don’t want to make the first move by calling the guy on the phone unless the girl is sugar mommy.. hehe. But single and as same as age of the guy is not the girl to make the first move, mostly is the only guy to make the first move. And I think in texting its okay for the girl but calling the phone number of the guy is hard. hehe

20. starthrower68 Jul 3rd 2008 at 07:37 pm 20

    While I certainly understand the safety thing, I gotta go with Evan on this one. I don’t want to have to make the first move because I really think that sets the stage for me doing the chasing and I don’t want to. I still hold fast to the notion that if a man is truly interested in a woman, she will know. He won’t leave her guessing.

21. Glenda Jul 3rd 2008 at 09:12 pm 21

    Starthrower68–

    PLEASE don’t underestimate the safety thing when giving out your number. I hope you, and everyone who reads this blog, is aware that whenever you give out a landline phone number, anyone can enter that into Google and not only get your address but a map to your home. You can opt out of this option–just enter your phone number and when the appropriate result comes up, you can select to have that no longer displayed. Google does NOT search and display cell phone numbers–I doublechecked before posting. While most people have good intentions (and hopefully you’ve screened the “UGH” ones out in the email process), you just never know. Better safe than sorry!

    And before anyone submits a comments that this is off topic–hold on a sec! This, I believe is totally on topic, as evidenced by posts by such as Alan’s, who, in the hope that by providing a woman with his number, felt it would make her feel more comfortable in starting up a phone conversation than if he were to ask for her number.

22. starthrower68 Jul 4th 2008 at 07:04 am 22

    Glenda, I agree with what you are saying. And I don’t have a land line phone, so no one would get that number. I know also that it’s not always easy to get a fix on someone and hear from your “gut” so to speak. But I digress and do not mean to get off topic.

23. Marc F. Jul 4th 2008 at 02:49 pm 23

    I think a big point that’s not being addressed here is that the woman who asked the question is in her 60s. I think the rules are way different at that age. If you’re in your 20, 30s, even 40s, then yes, the guy makes the first move by emailing, calling first, etc. From my own experience, the best way to get a woman not to call is to give her your phone number. If you sit around waiting for women to email or call you, you’ll be waiting a while. But I have single male friends and business associates in the 50 plus crowd, and they all tell me that they rarely, if ever, initiate contact with women online. They simply don’t have to. They claim to get inundated by emails from women in their age group. As such, it might behoove a woman in her 60s to take the initiative when contacting a guy.

24. Michele Jul 4th 2008 at 09:04 pm 24

    Karl’s post #10, Alan’s post #3, Kim’s post # 9 and lovable Evan’s numerous posts, particularly #17 (I confess…am a balker)………!! All contain very valid points.

    I specifically ask for his number and always block my number during the first call or two. If he doesn’t like that…..tough. Used to give my cell # (after the first few emails, if he wrote interesting emails and asked) but that changed after receiving far too many calls from a number of men, who simply did not fit my criteria. My cell phone number is just as private as my land line number.

    Now that I have a fairly good grip on how to conduct a “potential date” phone interview, it’s done on my terms and I might add in a very friendly manner. In the past if I realized that a man had no dating potential (in my humble opinion), would fib an excuse and say I will call him back…..now I point blank tell them that we probably would be wasting our time to continue talking. Am not overly abrupt but at least he won’t be bothering me.

    Am still a very loving and caring person…just don’t have to bother with those who don’t have a clue about how to conduct their dating lives. Am not about to teach them either because they created their own lives.

    Marc F. Your generalization about woman post 40 or 50 years of age is just that — a generalization. The population of adults post 40/50 is far greater than those in their 20’s and/or 30’s. The rules might still be the same but there are those (including me) who are an exception.

    Slighty off topic……if after we do meet and he fails to call then it’s all about him not being into me (and that has happened a time or two but probably for my good, although I don’t like the sting, do get over it quickly).

    The above post is not intended to insult or criticize anyone…….am merely sharing what works best in my case.

25. Lance Jul 5th 2008 at 03:13 pm 25

    @Michelle: Howdy, if you’re asking a question there in your 2nd to last para, then yes, if he doesn’t call after the first date it means he’s not into you or he went on other dates and found someone else. It stings and I feel that pain. I’ve had this happen to me a zillion times.

26. downtowngal Jul 5th 2008 at 06:46 pm 26

    Evan, I agree with you 100%.

    And I like Alan’s response. I’ve had guys, after a couple rounds of email, offer their numbers and in the same email go on to ask for mine, stating that they’ll call me if I prefer. That tells me he’s interested in taking the next step, while giving me the option of what I prefer from a safety standpoint, after all he wouldn’t know me at this point.

    Conversely, if, after a few rounds of emails, a guy doesn’t mention speaking on th phone or meeting up, but continues emailing, I begin to think that he’s not really interested in making the effort so I lose interest.

27. Internet Dating Tips Jul 6th 2008 at 03:21 am 27

    I have to add that when a man gives you his telephone number via e-mail and you respond with your number, it is critical to input his number in your phone book immediately, because what will happen if you don’t is that when he calls, you will no way of knowing which one it is who is calling. What I usually do is put his number in my phone, save it and then take a photo of the computer screen with his picture, so that when he calls, I will see his photo on my phone. The reason for that is, imagine you have five Paul’s from the same town, and three Bill’s from another town, and seven Roberts who live in the same area code. How on earth are you going to distinguish one from another? If you have a picture, it makes it a lot easier. Another useful tip is to attach his handle on a dating site to his phone number in your phone book. I even wrote a blog post about how to keep track of men from a dating site who call you more efficiently http://internet-dating-guru.blogspot.com/2008/01/keeping-track-of-men-that-call-you.html

28. hunter Jul 6th 2008 at 09:28 am 28

    Caller ID Blocking? Lots and lots of info can be googled with only a telephone number? Really? hhmmhhhh….

29. hunter Jul 6th 2008 at 09:32 am 29

    to Marc F. #23

    Your business associates are inundated with female responses? How delightful!….please post the secrets…hhhhhmmmhh…LOL!….

30. Michele Jul 6th 2008 at 11:41 am 30

    Yes it does sting……Lance #25 post. I don’t like to loose.

    Do keep in mind it’s a numbers game in reality

    Clearly define what type of woman you would like and she will appear only when you know thyself. We simply cannot be everything to everyone.

31. Alan Jul 7th 2008 at 04:38 am 31

    Thanks, Evan!

32. JuJu Jul 7th 2008 at 07:42 pm 32

    re: post 12

    No talking before meeting? Really?

    But that’s such an important part of deciding whether the person is even worth meeting!

33. JerseyGirl Jul 8th 2008 at 07:30 am 33

    But I have single male friends and business associates in the 50 plus crowd, and they all tell me that they rarely, if ever, initiate contact with women online. They simply don’t have to. They claim to get inundated by emails from women in their age group. As such, it might behoove a woman in her 60s to take the initiative when contacting a guy.
    —————————————————————————

    That might be because men die sooner then women and there might be alot more 60 year old women without mates then 60 year old men..because most of them are already dead.

34. Karl R Jul 8th 2008 at 11:36 am 34

    Evan (#13)
    “why assume that she’s afraid of giving out her number?”

    To quote you, “I’m going to put you in HER shoes.”

    If I give someone my phone number, they can get my first & last name and my address. Therefore, I’m cautious about giving my phone number out … and I know that I’m much better at protecting myself than the majority of men and most women.

    Evan (#17)
    “I understand your motives … I just don’t see the advantage of offering your number.”

    I routinely get the lady’s phone number after 2 or 3 e-mails. I get the first date after one phone call.

    My motive is to get the first date without wasting a lot of time. If I make the lady’s safety a priority, I can get the first date faster. That’s enough of an advantage.

35. Susan Dec 9th 2008 at 08:37 am 35

    THANK YOU EVAN!!!! I have talked to some great guys while online dating. Then they blow it by giving me their phone #. Marc explained to a T as to how a woman feels when a man does that. Basically, men are hunters, women are nuturers. It’s not our nature to pursue. And the women who chase get a hookup situation. We women are more than happy to talk, meet, and get to know you. Just don’t be lazy and throw us your #.

36. Cilla Dec 9th 2008 at 01:25 pm 36

    So lemme get this straight: women don’t want to give men their numbers, because of security reasons. But they also don’t want to be the first ones to call, so when a man offers his number (if HE can get around HIS concerns for security), they are at a stalemate????? And then there are those people who don’t want to do any telephone screening at all and move straight from emailing to meeting in person? And that makes you feel MORE secure??

    I have a telephone “date” scheduled for this week. He emailed me first. We emailed back and forth, with him continuing to initiate the emails. He suggested we talk live and gave me his phone number. I emailed him back saying I would like to chat and asked what day of the week and time might work for him. He gave me the information and said he was blocking off time so we could talk without interruption (that sounds plenty invested and interested to me). I told him I would call at the appointed hour. He sent me another email confirming the time and saying how much he’s looking forward to it. He knows I’ll be in his city (a couple of hours away) next week, so if we get along on the phone, he’ll have an opportunity to ask me out. I’m not chasing him, but I’m also not adhering to a set a rules that sound like they’d be better applied to passing notes in 8th grade math class. Like grown ups, people! That is how you should be conducting your dating life!

37. hunter Dec 9th 2008 at 06:54 pm 37

    Most, not all, female keynote speakers, at single seminars, that I have been to, emphasize, that a man give a woman, his telephone number. I think, the problem lies in the fact that, men usually give their telephone number to women that don’t need another telephone number. Some of these women already have hundreds of telephone numbers….LOL!……

38. hunter Dec 9th 2008 at 07:04 pm 38

    I’ll share with the ladies what I heard at a single seminar concerning men giving telephone numbers. ” If he hands you his telephone number, take it, write ‘your’ telephone number on it and give it back!”…….

39. Susan Dec 11th 2008 at 01:17 pm 39

    Cilla -
    Technically, men should ask for the # outright. If you don’t want to give it to him, offer an alternative with what you feel comfortable with. Or what Marc suggested in his article.

    The bottom line is men should ask and somewhere in time, they stopped. Now if you want to call a man first, great. At some point the man needs to take control and continue calling/making plans with you. That is why it is best to start out having the man call you period. The trick is getting him to do that.

40. Cilla Dec 11th 2008 at 08:21 pm 40

    Susan,

    I will say it again. If you are resorting to “tricks,” you are not in an adult relationship.

    BTW, there is no rule book (other than “The Rules”) that “technically” says a man should ask for a woman’s number. It was a societal convention that women themselves screwed up by becoming “liberated.” You can’t lay all the blame on men. And what alternative is there to giving your number to a man, if you can “trick” him into asking for it?

41. DAN Mar 5th 2009 at 07:17 am 41

    ~~~ IM A GUY and i do not ever call the lady 1st.
    never never… its not that i dont want her, its that i am too shy
    and for the most part feel i will fail and emails are safer.

    sorry but if i know ahead of time – regadless of how i looked, or how big or ugly i was. that she wouldnt mind and i always had positive experiance with calling 1st i would.

    even when she calls me, if its someone i dont know personally or have never met, i may be able to talk for weeks, but when it comes to actually meeting – i chicken out then too

    ive had too many women fall in love with me over the phone 1-4 weeks and then we meet and NOTHING

42. hunter Mar 6th 2009 at 07:23 am 42

    Dan, start calling the females on the telephone. All it takes is practice/experience. It may feel awkward at first, but, that goes away, if you try frequently….In most instances, if a woman is good, and healthy, all you have to do is dial up the phone, and say, “Hi, this is Dan calling” and the average woman will talk your ear off,,,,, if you let her.

43. MeetMeinOtrSPce Nov 10th 2009 at 04:24 pm 43

    Oh man, I broke all the rules. hahaaaa. crap. But, he gave me his phone number after he and I plus a few other friends chatted all night(not online, in person). Plus, he’s a timid guy, so I think I did the right thing. Because he likes me a lot! (calls me his boyfriend, paid for the first few dates after picking me up, and basically everything I’ve ever wanted from a guy, he does!) woo! =) Honestly, I wouldn’t count on every woman being a phone person. Have something to say! I am definitely not a phone person. I am a phone person(phone person, as in wanting to talk for no real reason in particular.) with ONE person and that is my best friend. I feel like part of what a woman expects to hear in the first phone conversation is interest from the man. It would be lame to just call and expect her to talk/chat. To me a great first phone call would have a few jokes to ease the tension/anxiety, ask how the day went, make plans then move on!

44. MeetMeinOtrSPce Nov 10th 2009 at 04:57 pm 44

    haha… calls me his girlfriend. oi vey. well, at least it was entertaining, mildly.

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