Jan22

My Boyfriend is a Verbally Abusive, Physically Abusive, Emotionally Abusive, Sexually Unfaithful Man. What Should I Do?

08:00 am on Jan 22nd 2009 Evan Marc Katz

Finding the One Online is a comprehensive, life-changing program that covers everything I teach my clients about online dating. If you want to get your love life on track and aren't sure where to start, Finding the One Online is the best investment you can make.

81 Comments »Filed Under Dating Tips & Advice, Sex & Relationship Advice

81 Responses to “My Boyfriend is a Verbally Abusive, Physically Abusive, Emotionally Abusive, Sexually Unfaithful Man. What Should I Do?”

1. mic Jan 22nd 2009 at 09:54 am 1

   Good looks (in absolute and relative terms) and/or a chemical (oxytocin) bond.

2. Jennifer Jan 22nd 2009 at 10:09 am 2

   Evan,
   First, I like the new look of the site!

   Second, I don’t think it’s just a ’self esteem’ problem. I think that phrase gets thrown around too often and it’s almost too easy. I think there is so much more to it. The common thread with these women, and women like them, is that they have convinced themselves that this is acceptable behavior. Clearly not ideal, but acceptable. Their partner is giving them something, even if its no where near apparent to us what it is, that is critical to them, and they don’t beleive they’ll be able to find it anywhere else.

   The only advice I can give these ladies is- change your mind. It’s possible to get what you need without dealing with all of these atrocities (cause really, that’s what they are). You won’t do better until you at least believe you can. Good relationships aren’t just for ‘other’ women. They are for you too.

3. The Seductress Within Jan 22nd 2009 at 10:40 am 3

   Sad, sad, sad. Women who put themselves in these situations don’t respect themselves and do not believe they deserve better or could get any better.

   It’s really that simple. And no, it’s not new information. But each one of those women after listing the various despicable traits of their “loves” actually feel the need to ask someone ‘what they should do’.

   What they really want to know is, what can I do to change him, make him love and respect me, basically turn him into a completely different person so I can feel better that picked him?

   We teach people how to treat us by the boundaries that we set and what behavior we accept. These are not victims. They volunteered for these pathetic relationships and can just as easily grow a backbone and opt out.

   The Seductress Within´s last blog post…What Does This Gift Say About His Feelings For Me?

4. A-L Jan 22nd 2009 at 11:26 am 4

   I’m just going to throw out a few ideas based on what I’ve seen friends and family members do.

   Staying for the kids: There should be a male role model, studies show that kids from two-family homes tend to come out better, and the person may (or may not) actually be a good parent even if they’re a sucky significant other. So they stick around.

   Normative behavior: They actually don’t know any better because in their families/social circles it’s normal for the male to cheat or to be physically abusive. They think that the normal, treats-you-well kind of guy seen in movies exists only in movies, so they don’t seek it out in their real lives. It’s so sad that my students think it’s normal that when someone imbibes too much that they’re going to end up beating others. Or when someone’s boyfriend cheats on them, it’s the other woman’s fault, not the boyfriend’s. Go figure.

   Chemistry: They think that a romantic relationship must have the butterflies in the stomach, weak in the knees, heart racing sensation, and they don’t ever feel that with the nice guys. So they stick with the very bad boys who give them that feeling (when they’re not being abusive jerks).

   Validation: If the jerk finally turns around and becomes a nice guy, then it shows they were right to spend so much time in a sucky relationship. But if they leave while it’s still sucky, then they consider that the whole relationship was a waste of time. Or, that they’ve done just enough to improve the guy for the next woman, but won’t receive any benefit themselves.

   Low self-esteem: Even if they think good guys exist, they don’t think they’re good enough to actually get one to be interested in them.

   Social standing/economics: Many jerks actually act like good catches in public, and a woman may not want to disrupt the façade of having a great relationship. Or, the woman has become economically dependant on the guy and feels as though she can’t do without his income (stay-at-home moms are probably particularly susceptible to this).

5. Sayanta Jan 22nd 2009 at 11:39 am 5

   It goes without saying that I was horrified reading these stories. But honestly, what is there to say?

   These women know there’s something seriously wrong with their situations (and that’s an understatement). They know they have serious emotional issues. And yet they ask you if they should ‘hold on longer’ and ‘what should they learn.’ They KNOW what’s wrong- they KNOW what you and everybody else who’s stable and sane is going to tell them. What other kind of answers are they looking for?

   I had a friend one time who was being horribly emotionally abused by her boyfriend. Me and the rest of the world offered sympathetic ears. We told her to leave. We gave the guy dirty looks. We told her to get therapy. Guess what she did? She stayed with the guy and ignored everybody’s advice. Did she go to therapy? Hell no.

   I want to offer advice and support to these women, but the thing is there’s nothing anyone can do. It’s like banging your head against a brick wall. One day these women are going to (hopefully) wake up and find the strength to change on their own. Unfortunately, sometimes it’s too late.

   And not to beat a dead horse, but the first woman’s story is the reason I stick to my ‘no sex before relationship’ rule- and even if the rest of the United States disagree with me, I’ll stand by it. At least I’ll have mental peace.

6. Robyn Jan 22nd 2009 at 11:42 am 6

   “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”
   “People don’t change, their eccentricities just become more pronounced.”

   Problem is, the longer you have been with some one, the more you have invested in a relationship (especially if you have children together), the more you feel it is “worth it” to reconcile/try to save the relationship. More so for women, than men. Effects of oxytocin etc., pressure from social conventions, “married until death do you part”, and often financial factors.

   If you’re a stay-at-home Mom, with outdated work skills / no recent work experience, in the current economy I can see why you might be prepared to turn a blind eye to your husband’s misdemeanors in exchange for support/shelter/food etc. that you couldn’t nearly afford on your own dime (assuming you could even get a job).

   Not a position I would like to be in at all.

7. Sayanta Jan 22nd 2009 at 11:45 am 7

   Evan- I don’t know if my above comment fully answered your question, which was:
   “WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH SUCH A TOOL?!”

   well….I think we all know the answer to that, so I won’t go into issues of psychological childhood trauma, low self-esteem, etc.

   But I think Pearl Jam said it best regarding the above women’s mentality-

   “Better Man”
   Waitin, watchin the clock, its four oclock, its got to stop
   Tell him, take no more, she practices her speech
   As he opens the door, she rolls over…
   Pretends to sleep as he looks her over
   She lies and says shes in love with him, cant find a better man…
   She dreams in color, she dreams in red, cant find a better man…
   Cant find a better man (2x)
   Ohh…

   Talkin to herself, theres no one else who needs to know…
   She tells herself, oh…
   Memories back when she was bold and strong
   And waiting for the world to come along…
   Swears she knew it, now she swears hes gone
   She lies and says shes in love with him, cant find a better man…
   She dreams in color, she dreams in red, cant find a better man…
   She lies and says she still loves him, cant find a better man…
   She dreams in color, she dreams in red, cant find a better man…
   Cant find a better man (2x)
   Yeah…

   She loved him, yeah…she dont want to leave this way
   She feeds him, yeah…thats why shell be back again
   Cant find a better man (3x)
   Cant find a better…man…
   Ohh…ohh…
   Uh huh… (5x)
   Ohh…

8. NIGHTRIDER Jan 22nd 2009 at 12:33 pm 8

   Dear Evan:

   I was horrified while reading these horrendous tales of woe from such intelligent woman. What in the world is going through their minds? All the men involved with them appear to let the woman know right away that they mean them no good. Yet, the women continue to accept their sordid behavior. What gives here?

   Evan, I know that you will give tthese women much needed advice. I just cannot believe what I just read! I am truly shocked that this type of subhuman behavior is still acceptable to some women.

   Evan, I am learning so much from you pertaining to the dating scene. I am truly happy a friend of mine informed me of your wonderful site. As you can see, men and women really need to log into your site. I am now more aware of the games men can and do play during the dating process. Before I started reading your emails, I was not always sure about their intentions. However, your site has really opened up my eyes. A thousand thanks for your fantastic advice.

   NIGHTRIDER

   PS: SO HAPPY YOU FOUND THE “ONE” AND GOT MARRIED!! GIVES US SO MUCH HOPE!

9. satexaslady Jan 22nd 2009 at 12:37 pm 9

   I’m a LPC in Texas with a masters in marriage & family therapy & I have to say, Evan, you’re pretty damn good at what you do & what you say.

   As for why these women and a whole host of others accept unacceptable behavio? There are many reasons & combinations of reasons. Their self esteem may be low to begin with, or it may be low in this particular area. It may come from messages they have heard all of their lives…some variation of “your worthless” or “you’ll be lucky to find a man”. Women in my parents genration (not all, but a lot) got the message that there was something wrong with them if they could not find a man & hang on to them. They were blamed, not their husbands when things went wrong in a marriage. Sometimes it’s more insidious than that. A woman meets a man. At first all is great, and then he slowly, quietly eats away at her self esteem an separates her from her family & friends. Sometimes these women are at vunerable points in their lives such as the loss of a family member, a break-up or divorce, or some other traumatic event. I had to deal some of it when I was in grad school. It’s hard to work with, because it seems that the answer is so simple, leave the %#&#@* (insert word here) but there is so much more involved. There has been some research done in the field of trauma. (And what is abuse, if not trauma) I’m not not really up on all of it, but it suggests that repeated exposure to trauma causes changes in the brain.

10. JuJu Jan 22nd 2009 at 02:10 pm 10

    You know, when I read some of the stuff on this blog, all my “problems” seem just laughable in comparison.

    Well, you already know why they put up with this kind of crap – low self-esteem (most likely a result of abusive childhood) combined with lack or complete absence of self-awareness.

11. JNez Jan 22nd 2009 at 02:29 pm 11

    good or great sex has the ability to cloud someone’s otherwise rational decision making. add in insecurity due to being overweight or feeling otherwise undesireable and you have just the person willing to put up with or overlook abuse, infidelity & all sorts of other demeaning treatment from a partner. it’s really unfortunate, no one will end a relationship until they are truly convinced that they are better off without their partner than with them.

    JNez´s last blog post…President Obama: Everybody Rejoice!

12. Jennifer Jan 22nd 2009 at 04:37 pm 12

    @A-L #4- Completely agree with your post, particularly the point about validation.

13. Mary Jan 22nd 2009 at 05:00 pm 13

    Just become everything you would ever want to marry…

14. Sayanta Jan 22nd 2009 at 05:19 pm 14

    Post #1-
    “The common thread with these women, and women like them, is that they have convinced themselves that this is acceptable behavior.”

    Have they, though? Then why are they writing to Evan? Obviously they know something is seriously wrong, and it’s not acceptable.

    I think it just goes down to this (well, not ‘just’ but one of the factors)- these women believe there aren’t better men in society (see my Pearl Jam lyrics)- and media, literature doesn’t do much to sway us from that fact. Do they want Evan to tell them not to worry, as soon as they leave a better man (forget ‘better’ because these men aren’t even good to begin with) will come along? Is it reassurance they want that better men are out there?

    I wish that day would come when all women would rise up and refuse to take abuse and s-t from men like the above samples anymore, but I’m living in Dreamland apparently.

15. hunter Jan 22nd 2009 at 06:57 pm 15

    A-L’s paragraph on “Chemistry” is the core of most relationships, from what I am told. Kind of like seeing most “nice” women, they can be, boring….

16. Jennifer Jan 23rd 2009 at 07:37 am 16

    @Sayanta #14- I agree with you. I say ‘acceptable’ because they have been accepting it, in most cases for years. agree that the reason they have convinced themselves that this is acceptable behavior is because they don’t expect more (due to media, society, their own thoughts, etc.).

    I think they are writing Evan because they are getting fed up and want their men to shape up now. It’s almost like ‘I expect to have to deal with b.s. for a while, but hasn’t it been long enough now?’

17. mic Jan 23rd 2009 at 08:44 am 17

    JNez: according to many surveys, sexual satisfaction makes relationship termination unlikely.

    That most heterosexual relationships in non-repressive societies are ended by women kind of suggests that social norms now have little to do with women letting men physically abuse them. With very young women (more naive and more sensitive to chemistry) an exception and women from certain circles another exception, perhaps. Purely emotional abuse – anyone know?

    Maybe somebody can find a study that delves into heterosexual relationships. As you can see, in gay males, some of the reasons for tolerating violence are subtly or overtly related to attraction (“love”) and appearance.
    http://www.ncdsv.org/images/GayMale_DV1.pdf

18. mic Jan 23rd 2009 at 09:06 am 18

    Also, concerning chemistry and good looks, a cursory glance at research suggests that men who are low in testosterone are deemed less physically attractive and are less violent within relationships.

19. Sayanta Jan 23rd 2009 at 10:00 am 19

    “I think they are writing Evan because they are getting fed up and want their men to shape up now.”

    True. I think a lot of women, as everyone knows, try to change their men. But men know no one can change unless they want to and walk out. I’ve actually always admired men’s common sense in this regard.

20. Cilla Jan 24th 2009 at 08:17 am 20

    Satexaslady alluded to it, as did you, Evan, when you described the reality show contestants who had their SOs “trained” to act like door mats: it’s the insidious nature of the abuse. Most relationships with abusers don’t start out with overt abuse. It would be too ineffective, too much of a red flag. It’s the slow, steady erosion of self-esteem and support that allows the abuse to escalate with these couples.

    Take one women who has had a traumatic childhood or upbringing where she’s constantly devalued. Add a couple of early bad relationships or a divorce. Now add to that a man who consciously or not, looks for vulnerable partners. He reels her in, then slowly, over months or years, starts the devaluing process all over again (but it’s easier now, because that’s the dynamic she’s used to). At first it’s just “negging,” little back-handed not-quite-compliments that are actually meant to make her question her appearance, her parenting, her cooking, whatever. Then it progresses to insulting her in front of other people, which is a test to see how much verbal abuse she might be willing to take. Of course, the negging has made her question her self worth, so she doesn’t fight back. Isolate her from her friends and family, so she loses her support system and starts to question her own judgment. Take away her financial independence. You now have the ingredients to make the toxic cocktail of angry verbal abuse (yelling, swearing, etc.), physical abuse (shoving, hitting, beating), and sexual abuse (rape, infidelity).

21. scorchin' Jan 24th 2009 at 10:08 am 21

    at some point you stop being a victim & start being a volunteer. If your stupid & blind enough, the volunteering starts at the beginning of the relationship.

22. starthrower68 Jan 24th 2009 at 12:59 pm 22

    Wow. I guess the obvious answer seems obvious if you’re not in their shoes. Perhaps you can be so close to a situation you can’t see things objectively, but there is nothing to do. Leave. That’s it, leave. And perhaps do yourself the favor of looking at why you wanted CHANGE HIM instead of LEAVING HIM. Once a tool, always a tool.

23. mic Jan 25th 2009 at 09:12 am 23

    Unfortunate strong possibility:
    An attractive man gets more second chances than a less attractive man. Even third parties who might advise “Get out” probably think the better-looking fellow is more worth the effort. If someone were to run a picture-based experiment judging who is more likely to be an abuser and who is more likely to change his ways….

24. mic Jan 25th 2009 at 09:42 am 24

    By now, someone should have highlighted the controversial finding that men and women are equally violent in relationships, at least in frequency. Violence or not, it seems that at some point one has to assume responsibility. Then again, many relationships only end when an unhappy partner becomes attracted to somebody else. (Abuse seemingly “works” to discourage mate-poaching.) Probably for most people, attraction dwarfs logic. It doesn’t help that most people only are much attracted to a small pool coveted by many, which likely is especially true concerning women and is very clear in online dating.

25. thomas Jan 25th 2009 at 10:00 am 25

    Over the years, I have seen this play out time and time again. The woman gets out of a bad relationship and into one with a new guy. It last for a few years, then she moves into another bad relationship. I do not know why, but women who go from the bad guy to the good guy, well, they go back and seek, they seek, I will say it again, they seek the bad guy. I have seen it happen so many times.

    I had a friend recently who got divorced because his wife thought he was boring. She wanted excitement and danger, not stability. She then went out and sought the abusive guy that he was not.

    It is not always the women’s fault. Yet, when they do not change the behavior that got them their, it will continue.

    I have heard so many stories in the past from some of my female freinds. They continue down the same path and do not change the men that they go after or who they let go after them.

    I have seen a number of men in the same situation. They need someone to tell them what to do. I have seen men who are lost when they do not have someone to constantly tell how act. It reminds me of the movie, about Schmidt. The guy is lost and will not do anything for himself without his wife telling him what to do.

26. Shaun Eli Jan 25th 2009 at 08:04 pm 26

    Maybe they’re writing to him because they think there’s actually a solution to their problems that doesn’t involve leaving. Something like “If you only did this one thing he’d change and be better to you.” And since nobody else has given them the magic solution they’ll keep seeking it elsewhere.

    Or they want a sympathetic ear, because all of their friends long ago tired of listening to the same cries for help when their clear advice went unheeded again and again.

27. Lance Jan 25th 2009 at 08:26 pm 27

    Dude, good people stay with douchebags SO’s for way longer than they should for a great many reasons. Sometimes it’s the sex, sometimes it’s laziness, sometimes insecurity, sometimes it’s fear. The question is how can we all do and get better, including the abusers and the douchebags in the emails above.

    Lance´s last blog post…Filthy Butt Sex On New Years Eve

28. Alan Jan 26th 2009 at 05:44 am 28

    One reason might be fear – fear of change, fear of rejection, fear that this is as good as it gets. Fear can be a trong motivator (or non-motivator in this case).

29. mic Jan 26th 2009 at 11:00 am 29

    Thomas: studies have demonstrated that women’s preferences can change during the menstrual cycle.

30. mic Jan 26th 2009 at 12:27 pm 30

    On that point, here’s an eye-opener (and just one of many at the site):
    The Change Of Life, Hysterectomies, And Domestic Violence
    http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-43.htm

31. Corrine Jan 26th 2009 at 05:46 pm 31

    Well, guys, I’m Corrine. Anybody got anything to say to me? I knew it was too good to be true and it was. This man came into my life touting poetry and promising me to “be a role model and influence to my sons as much as I would allow him to be around them”. Well, you all know how it ended. To make this story even worse, I have a master’s degree and was just admitted to a Doctoral program. I should know better! I treated him like a freakin’ King and this is how I got treated.

32. Corrine Jan 26th 2009 at 05:48 pm 32

    Oh, does anybody, including Evan, think this louse will be back for the sex? I would really like to tell this piece of dung off!

33. Corrine Jan 26th 2009 at 05:53 pm 33

    One other thing, and I know I may seem bitter. This loser didn’t have a job, has erectile dysfunction, and is wrinkled and going bald. I’m beautiful, educated, nice and loving. As stated previously, I treated him like a KING! and this is the thanks I get. His wide does/did NOT want him. She cheated on him with a wealthy man because he didn’t earn enough, then he disrespected me and our “relationship” by going on vacation with her and their children. She is pushing for the divorce and he still will not do it. It’s been 4 months since it ended and I’m still a bit resentful about how I was treated.

34. Michael Ejercito Jan 26th 2009 at 08:52 pm 34

    And people think that it is hard to manipulate women…

35. Sayanta Jan 27th 2009 at 07:29 am 35

    Corinne-

    I really don’t want to sound rude or anything, but I’ve got to know- why on earth DID you date this man? You’ve stated your qualities above, and I just can’t figure out what someone like you would see in him.

    Was his poetry that good?

36. Karl R Jan 27th 2009 at 08:13 am 36

    Corrine, (#31, 32, 33)
    In your original letter you asked, “what can I learn from this situation?”

    I think you already know the answer. You saw a lot of red flags. Next time don’t wait to collect quite that many before you go. After the episode where you first ended it, you decided to give him a second chance. That’s your perogative. But you should have made it his second and last chance.

    You said, “I treated him like a KING!”

    Why? Was he treating you like a queen? Based on your story, it sounds like he was treating you like part of the harem by date #2.

    In dating, your efforts should be reciprocated. If I write a lady a 1 page e-mail and she responds with a 2 line e-mail, then she’s not reciprocating. My next e-mail will be 2 to 4 lines. And this extends to more than just e-mails. If you’re treating him like a king, he should be treating you like a queen. If he’s not, stop treating him like a king.

    If you really feel the need to tell this guy off, write a long letter telling him how horrible he is. Then BURN the letter. That way you can vent without resorting to acting out like a juvenile.

37. mic Jan 27th 2009 at 12:34 pm 37

    Good body build? Nice voice? Chemistry? High sex drive + inhibitions lowered through alcohol?

38. Corrine Jan 28th 2009 at 02:07 pm 38

    Sayanta, his poetry was good but, of course, it was all BS designed to lure his victims in. I continued dating him because he promised me a comitted relationship and said he was crazy about me. In trying to answer the question why some of us women fall for men who are obviously liars and losers, I grew up in a dysfunctional family and married an abuser. THough I know better, over my entire life, I have become used to people treating me badly. So, although my intellect knew I did not want that kind of treatment, in some weird way my psych was comfortable with it.

    With this guy, he promised me that he wanted me in his life and would make me happy, that he was more “loyal than a puppy dog”. Haha, yeah, those are his actual “poetic words”. The things he promised never materialized, and he became bolder and bolder in his mistreatment of me. Michael is right, I was manipulated by a liar. And Karl, you are right as well. I saw the red flags. Those should not have been ignored.

    This part may be a bit of a rant, but I have no idea how he thinks he was/is all that. He couldn’t sustain an erection for a prolonged period of time during our sexual encounters, so he was always done before I was. Not only that, but he is aging quickly, despite his idea that he is a jock. That means his erectile dysfunction will only get worse, not better. Lastly, he cannot and has not ever made much of a living. One day, I came across his resume where he stated he had a bachelor’s degree. Well, he had already informed me that he didn’t actually have the degree, he needed to complete a couple of classes.

    Lesson learned I guess, but it did sting. Mostly because I allowed this to happen to myself by not heeding the reg flags that unfolded right before my very eyes.

    The most hurtful thing was how he said he marriage was and had been over. However, near the end he refused to stop going on vacations with her and I was even deluded enough to continue seeing him when I saw that she still had a login on his personal computer in his bedroom!! Lesson learned, I guess.

    I guess these losers exist because so many women allow them to keep using them. Thankfully I won’t be one of them.

39. mic Jan 29th 2009 at 09:27 am 39

    People, many a woman feels treated well just because a man is very attracted; it can be emotionally intoxicating to be desired. Provided the man is not repulsive in some way.

    As for the story:
    Okay, but that leaves out some important information. You might have found the other questions embarrassing, but they were aimed at revealing not necessarily conscious factors that lead people to make bad relationship choices. If you had been turned off by photos of him on an online dating site or had not found something about him in person sexy (it’s unlikely to have been just words), you would not have gone through that. Since he seems to be a bad guy and you’ve griped about wrinkles and hair loss (which frankly is insensitive to male readers), another question is, Did he use misleading photos?

40. Sayanta Jan 29th 2009 at 12:18 pm 40

    “Provided the man is not repulsive in some way.”

    lol- this cracked me up

    “you’ve griped about wrinkles and hair loss (which frankly is insensitive to male readers)”

    Why? It’s a personal preference, like men preferring blonde twentysomethings with big boobs. A young woman probably isn’t going to find wrinkles and hair loss attractive in a boyfriend, and she has every right to her opinion.

41. Corrine Jan 29th 2009 at 04:02 pm 41

    Hi, Mic. My apologies to any male readers concerning my comments, I’m just a bit bitter right now. It’ll pass.

    About his online photos, I WAS turned off by his photos. In them, he looked old (his face) and wrinkled, but he has an athletes body. The reason I responded to his e-mails because he talks “sweet”. The poetry, nice words. His has the ability to make women feel he is a caring, gentlemen. He is not. His words are just a practiced, successful technique he uses to lure his victims (women-and I hope only women) in.

42. mic Jan 30th 2009 at 09:48 am 42

    Thanks for the answer, Corrine. Haha, he didn’t pose shirtless, did he? That’s not a good sign, readers.

    Bitter – yes, that’s understandable. And preferences are preferences. But it must be jarring for many men to hear a woman who isn’t young (hence, Evan’s blog post) denigrate common male signs of aging. If a man were to comment unprompted about disliking women with small breasts, imagine the uproar.

43. Jennifer Jan 30th 2009 at 11:04 am 43

    @mic#42
    I think instead of small breasts a better example would be sagging breasts or stretch marks or something like that. Just to go along with the aging theme you are talking about.

44. corrine Jan 30th 2009 at 04:35 pm 44

    Mic, yup! He had one shirtless pic…

45. Cilla Jan 31st 2009 at 09:07 am 45

    Yeah, I used to hit the “next” button for shirtless, too, but it’s so ubiquitous these days, it’s not necessarily a red flag any more. I’m seeing a lot of triathletes, gym rats, personal trainers, etc. posing shirtless. I think it’s also more popular in certain geographic areas (beach communities like SoBe) and with certain ethnic groups (seems to be more accepted among African American men). Have to say, after looking at some of the pics I see on Match, I don’t exactly mind the eye candy.

46. mic Jan 31st 2009 at 11:57 am 46

    However, sagging breasts or stretch marks probably wouldn’t be expressed as a deal-breaker, because it’s not something for which one realistically can screen:) Unlike shirtless men….

    Does anyone know of a case where shirtless led to a happy long-term relationship? And don’t fit guys know how to show off without being overtly sexual? Most likely not, since most people lack style. It would be forgiveable if, for instance, it’s just one of several pictures from a guy who is an avid sufer.

47. starthrower68 Jan 31st 2009 at 12:11 pm 47

    Corrine,

    Unless I miss my guess, I think most of your anger is directed at yourself for feeling you should have known better than to get involved with such a mope. Be careful about beating yourself up too much. When we open our heart to someone, this is an unfortunate risk we take. Sometimes we get a good result and sometimes we don’t. I know working through the anger is a process, but you WILL get on the other side of it. Be patient with yourself and I’m sure you already know this, but NEVER EVER have any contact with this guy again. He is toxic.

48. Karl R Feb 1st 2009 at 11:44 am 48

    mic asked: (#46)
    “don’t fit guys know how to show off without being overtly sexual? Most likely not, since most people lack style.”

    The ones with a sense of class will be able to show off without being shirtless.

    Since I do yoga, my profile has a couple pictures of me in yoga poses. In both, I’m wearing baggy t-shirts and tight shorts. Both show off my legs (my best feature). In one, the pose causes the shirt to hug close enough to my body to make it obvious that I’m not carrying extra weight. And in that picture, my butt looks great.

    starthrower68 said: (#47)
    “Be careful about beating yourself up too much.”

    I agree. You figured out that you needed to dump this guy, and you did. Everybody makes mistakes in dating. As long as you learn from them, you’ll do fine.

49. michael Feb 2nd 2009 at 01:04 pm 49

    What should you do? LOL. If you stick around for that crap then you are just asking for more. Leave it. Oh and all men cheat and all women cheat. Well, not all men and not all women but most do.

    michael´s last blog post…Wazzum Dating Software News

50. Sayanta Feb 2nd 2009 at 06:37 pm 50

    Yeah- what’s up with all those shirtless pics? Tacky, dude.

    Hmmm…..maybe I should pose in my bra.

51. vlh Feb 4th 2009 at 01:12 pm 51

    <>

    Codependency. Daddy issues. Society also puts pressure on women to reconcile and “get back together” and “patch things up” even when it’s obvious she should ditch him, revamp her online dating profile and start seeing other men immediately.

52. Sayanta Feb 4th 2009 at 03:18 pm 52

    “Society also puts pressure on women to reconcile and “get back together” and “patch things up” ” -

    It does? All the books on relationships I see have one title- Dump his ass.

53. starthrower68 Feb 4th 2009 at 07:31 pm 53

    I would submit that society pressures women to be desirable but not to desire. But that’s a whole other blog.

54. thomas Feb 5th 2009 at 01:43 am 54

    great discussion

55. Sayanta Feb 5th 2009 at 12:32 pm 55

    “I would submit that society pressures women to be desirable but not to desire. But that’s a whole other blog.”

    I really think that’s changing- especially since the past decade.

56. Karl R Feb 5th 2009 at 01:04 pm 56

    Michael said: (#49)
    “all men cheat and all women cheat. Well, not all men and not all women but most do.”

    In other words, you’re saying that you cheat.

    In a psychology class, I remember being told about a study where they surveyed people aobut cheating. The cheaters tended to overestimate the number of people who cheat. Those who didn’t cheat tended to underestimate the number of people who cheat.

    Perhaps one way to subtly screen for cheaters would be to ask someone what percentage of people they believe cheat.

57. Sayanta Feb 6th 2009 at 08:14 am 57

    “Perhaps one way to subtly screen for cheaters would be to ask someone what percentage of people they believe cheat.’

    lol- that’s actually a pretty good idea.

    Although, I know some faithful people who are just really really paranoid about the whole cheating thing- so I don’t know if it would necessarily be accurate.

58. Corrine Feb 6th 2009 at 12:27 pm 58

    I think Karl pointed out a great way to discreetly ascertain someone’s idea about cheating, but then again, my career is psychology. LOL.

    I appreciate the comments by starthrower and Karl, and yes, I’m more mad at myself more than anything for even giving this assclown the time of day! As you guys have read, I told him it was over once when his creep colors started to show, but I gave him a another chance. The rest is history. A liar is a liar, is a liar…LOL

    I wonder why men who have less than desirable qualities (creeps, unemployed, NOTHING to offer) will treat a woman badly when she treats them well? So, is there really something to the idea that when you treat a man less than wonderful, he treats you better.

    THoughts?

    About women that take men back. I’d say most do. I wouldn’t. With some women, some transgressions deal a mortal blow to the relationship. When a man cheats, it means he didn’t value you or the relationship.

59. Anabelle Feb 6th 2009 at 12:46 pm 59

    It sounds to me that you are a very intelligent woman by the way you write and I believe you know the answerdeep down and you just want everyone here to validate it. Which they have done…

    Ask yourself thesimple question: “Would you treat someone you truly loved that way and if you did what do you think it woulddo to thier self belief, self esteem and self worth?”

    Anabelle´s last blog post…Online Dating Tips Articles

60. Corrine Feb 6th 2009 at 02:34 pm 60

    anabelle, you are right of course…

61. A Good Analogy for the Journalist-Newspaper Relationship | Matters of Varying Insignificance Feb 9th 2009 at 03:36 am 61

    [...] My Boyfriend is a Verbally Abusive, Physically Abusive, Emotionally Abusive, Sexually Unfaithful Man… [...]

62. Jacob Feb 9th 2009 at 04:25 pm 62

    There are plenty of good people out there who will not abuse you. Try to find a good man and stick with him.

63. Karl R Feb 10th 2009 at 11:07 am 63

    Corrine asked (#58)
    “is there really something to the idea that when you treat a man less than wonderful, he treats you better.”

    Since you’re a psychologist, this should be easy to explain. Think about basic Skinnerism. I get the feeling that you treat the man well regardless of how he treats you. That trains him that the reward (good treatment from you) is unrelated to his own actions/behavior. Since he can get the reward without any effort (good treatment toward you), he stops putting in the effort to treat you better.

    If you want the man to treat you better, tie your responses to his actions. If a woman takes days to respond to e-mails/voicemails, I stop trying to contact her as often, and I don’t worry about replying to her promptly.

    If a woman is distancing herself from me (through body language), I give her that space and a little extra. I don’t waste time worrying about why it’s occurring. Either the distance is temporary, and she’ll want to be close again, or it’s permanent and she’s on her way out.

    You deserve to receive the same kind of treatment that you give to the other person. To put it another way, it’s quid pro quo. But, to continue the idea of Skinnerism, don’t be 100% consistent about your reinforcement. The reinforcement will work better if it’s not completely consistent. If he does something nice, you can smile and say “Thank you”, you can give him a hug and a kiss, you can drag him into the bedroom…. You’re rewarding the good behavior, but he doesn’t have an expectation of a specific reward for a given action.

    The goal is to get a relationship between equals. As I said before, you shouldn’t be treating him like a king unless he’s treating you like a queen.

64. CasualEncountersBlog Feb 10th 2009 at 01:38 pm 64

    I’m telling you. Don’t use online dating sites for anything except arranging hookups for anonymous sex. I mean obviously this guy treated you poorly, but he at least was leveraging the medium.

    If you want to make a romantic connection I’d advise joining a club of some sort. Pursue a hobby likely to also be pursued by people with whom you’ll hit it off; people with whom you might be able to establish a future. Hint: this group should not include not drug addicts, gamblers, or self-mutilators.

    Take it easy.

    CasualEncountersBlog´s last blog post…Site update: Chat added

65. Maria Feb 10th 2009 at 08:34 pm 65

    I understand why you are where you are. It is a sad realization, when you finally come to grips that the inherent character traits of someone you thought you loved, is an abuser. He won’t change, and violence escalates. Run for your life! Phone the nearest county services where you reside, check into a safe house and file a restraining order. Safe houses have counseling and legal resources available. Start a new life…NOW…while you still have one. Some women don’t get out alive.

66. Selena Feb 13th 2009 at 01:42 pm 66

    I think it might be largely chemistry with some element of challenge thrown in. There are some people who set off an invisible hum inside you; others don’t. Adrenaline (from fighting) can heighten this hum. And so can *make up * sex. Possibly the emotional charges in a bad relationship become somewhat addictive?

    Add to that for some people there exists an element of challenge in keeping a difficult relationship going –the desire “to win”. They will keep going back for round 6, round 11, round 20 in pursuit of that win whatever it happens to mean to them.

    Also, very seldom do abusive people, liars and cheaters present themselves that way at first. No matter what one’s level of self esteem or disfunctional backround, how many people who were abused, lied to, cheated on on a first date do you think would agree to a second? The bad behavior usually starts after a relationship has already been firmly established and the victim is more wholly emotionally invested and presumably more reluctant to leave.

67. Not Dating Feb 20th 2009 at 12:35 pm 67

    “My Boyfriend is a Verbally Abusive, Physically Abusive, Emotionally Abusive, Sexually Unfaithful Man. What Should I Do?”

    Marry his of course!!! Or you could run, change your phone number and never look back. Personally I would say if your boyfriend is any ONE of the four things mentioned in this title then you should dump him quick.

68. Corrine Feb 23rd 2009 at 11:44 am 68

    Also, very seldom do abusive people, liars and cheaters present themselves that way at first. No matter what one’s level of self Selena: “No matter what level of someone’s self esteem or disfunctional backround, how many people who were abused, lied to, cheated on on a first date do you think would agree to a second? The bad behavior usually starts after a relationship has already been firmly established and the victim is more wholly emotionally invested and presumably more reluctant to leave.”

    Selena, that’s basically what happened to me. The man that he presented himself as was definitely not the man that revealed himself at the end. It was literally a Jeckyl-Hyde kind of thing.

69. Selena Feb 25th 2009 at 02:01 pm 69

    Corrine,

    That’s an experience I’ve had also. I became involved with a guy I thought was a good match for me, came to feel he was my best friend. This ex is also someone I now literally describe as a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde – EXACT WORDS.

    The abuse was so insidious, came on gradually over a period of time, and I found it hard to believe coming from a guy who was always telling me, and showing me, he loved me. It was terribly confusing until he just became too much to take.

    Prior to this relationship, I didn’t have self esteem issues. I did not come from a disfunctional family. And in fact, I have a degree in multiple disciplines of social science. Shouldn’t I have spotted this kind of thing right off? The violent potential? Well I didn’t.

    When discussing situations like this, it might be helpful to be aware that “pat” answers (self esteem for example is a hard concept to measure) seldom explain why people make the choices they do. Listening deeper, might provide more understanding. I think of it as psychological archeology -subtling sifting through different levels.

70. terry Mar 23rd 2009 at 06:57 pm 70

    i can’t believe how many replies are simplistic and judgmental.

    i am on the exit side of a verbally abusive relationship that much of the time was close, intimate, fun, and adventurous…he had a childhood that was nighmarish…there was a part of me that want to help heal the wounds, and forgive his transgressions because i knew his actions were coming from that very damaged place…

    but once i realized my love and patience and understanding were not going to heal his darkness, my plea to my friends was NOT how can i change him or how can i make this work…it was how do i let go? HOW DO I LET GO? How do i walk away when i am being intimidated, manipulated and there is genuine care even tho i know its over i cannot help this person….relationships like this are as much an addiction as heroin or gambling…even when you know the drug ain’t gettin you high any more how do you overcome the HABIT?

    it’s a long journey of commitment, determination, positive behaviors…(yoga, walking, meditating, talking with friends, healing…) to separate from this powerful drug…

71. JuJu Mar 23rd 2009 at 11:08 pm 71

    Hmm, somehow I don’t think of healing my SO’s wounds as part of a healthy (not to mention, desirable) relationship.
    I mean, wounds inflicted on my time – sure, I’ll be there for him just like I expect him to be there in tough times for me.
    But someone intimidating and manipulating me because his behavior “comes from a dark place” – exactly how is it judgmental of me not to want to be someone’s therapist?.. :-%

72. Michael Mar 24th 2009 at 08:47 am 72

    I wish I knew where to meet women with low self-esteem.

73. Karl R Mar 25th 2009 at 04:22 pm 73

    Michael said: (#72)
    “I wish I knew where to meet women with low self-esteem.”

    Why?

74. casualencounters.com/blog Mar 25th 2009 at 06:01 pm 74

    Kind of obvious, isn’t it. You can punch above your weight with the low-self-esteemers. *Trophypose*.

    casualencounters.com/blog´s last blog post…How to Find Sex: the Art of the One Night Stand – Part 20 “Conclusion”

75. Michael Mar 26th 2009 at 08:10 am 75

    Women with low self-esteem (such as those who ask Evan what to do if their boyfriens is a verablly abusive, physically abusive, emotionally abusive, sexually unfaithful man) are easier to manipulate and easier to keep.

76. Joe Mar 26th 2009 at 09:40 am 76

    So what you’re saying is that you’re just a lazy bum?

77. A-L Mar 26th 2009 at 09:53 am 77

    Michael,

    Easier to keep, I understand. But do you really want a woman you can manipulate? I imagine that type of relationship would feel rather emotionally vacant, and not at all something that I would desire myself.

78. Karl R Mar 26th 2009 at 11:34 am 78

    Michael said: (#75)
    “Women with low self-esteem are easier to manipulate and easier to keep.”

    These women come with baggage. Tons of it.

    I knew one such woman who slept around with a lot of men, because it made her “feel loved”. Her husband may have gotten a sexy wife who didn’t leave him, but he also ended up sharing her with a lot of friends, acquaintances and strangers.

    Or you could get a woman who is convinced that she’s not good enough to keep you happy, so she constantly suspicious that you’re cheating on her (or will cheat on her) with any woman that you pay any attention to.

    Or you could get a woman who is convinced that you’ll dump her once you get to know her … so she protects herself by dumping you preemptively.

    And if you’re manipulating her, everybody will be encouraging her to dump your ass.

    casualencounters.com/blog said: (#74)
    “Kind of obvious, isn’t it. You can punch above your weight with the low-self-esteemers.”

    I can think of a few preferable ways to get a woman who would normally be out of my league:

    #1 – Be her type
    My first serious relationship was with a woman who “liked lanky men”. To most women I was too thin, but to this woman I was irresistable.

    #2 – Have high self-esteem
    Last year I dated a woman who was as fit as me, smarter than me, better educated than me, funnier than me, better looking than me, had a more prestigious job, out-earned me, and she even danced better than me.

    I was the only smart, educated, fit, good looking, employed, funny dancer who wasn’t too intimidated to date her.

    #3 – Date someone others find undesirable
    My current girlfriend is in her late 40s. But she’s more fit, energetic and sexier than almost any woman my age (or younger). But because of her age, there are fewer men competing for her than there are for less attractive women in their 30s.

    And I don’t get stuck with tons of baggage if I do any of these.

79. Sayanta Mar 26th 2009 at 06:53 pm 79

    Michael- you sound like quite the ladies’ man *cough*

80. Michael Mar 27th 2009 at 09:21 am 80

    As one can deduce from this article, men who are verbally abusive, physically abusive, emotionally abusive, and sexually unfaithful can be ladies’ men.

81. JuJu Mar 27th 2009 at 10:35 am 81

    Okay, Michael and others who think this way, let me tell you how it is.

    The only men women might take this crap from (and, mind you, this would take a particular kind of woman – insecure and at least somewhat emotionally messed up) are the highly desirable alpha males. I.e., those possessing a combination of physical attractiveness with confidence in their being god’s gift to women and disregard for social norms. These absolutely must be men women tend to compete over.

    Those same women will NOT look twice at a man who doesn’t measure up to these criteria, regardless of how assh*lish his behavior might be, but will think instead that he has to run on his “hind legs” around them for them to pay him any attention.

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